Pistons < Spurs
11-16-2005, 11:13 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=35553
Posted: November 16, 2005
No. 1 is easy. Any way you rank the NBA's top 50 players, Tim Duncan comes out on top.
Winning. He's the best player on the best team. Because "winning championships is the reason we're doing this," as one executive put it, you now know what our top consideration was when choosing players for the list.
Individual honors. Finals MVP. All-NBA first team (in each of his eight seasons), All-Defensive first team.
Stats. Duncan ranked No. 1 in the ratings deemed most important by the statistically inclined website 82games.com. If his plus-16.6 rating (based on the Spurs' point discrepancy when he's on vs. off the court) doesn't impress you, his 2004-05 numbers should: 20.3 points, 11.1 rebounds, 49.6 percent shooting, 2.6 blocks.
Polls. In the league's general managers' preseason survey, Duncan was an overwhelming pick to win his third MVP award and lead the Spurs to their second consecutive title. Of the six G.M.s and scouts who helped pick our top 50, five chose Duncan as their No. 1.
So there. A slam dunk for Duncan. But ranking Nos. 2-50 wasn't so easy. Prepare to disagree.
2. Shaquille O'Neal, Heat. At 33, the Greatest Center Ever is the oldest player in the top 50 and has begun to show his age. Still, he was the only player to average more than 20 points and shoot 60 percent from the floor last season, and he remains the player most difficult to prepare for. For all Dwyane Wade does, Shaq is the main reason G.M.s picked the Heat to win the East.
3. Steve Nash, Suns. How can a guy who never dunks be way up here? Easy. He's the absolute best at making his teammates better. And being the reigning MVP and the catalyst for the only team that won at least 60 games (the Suns won 62) last season doesn't hurt.
4. Kevin Garnett, Timberwolves. You know you're special when you check in with 22.2 points, a league-best 13.5 rebounds, 5.7 assists and 50.2 percent shooting and it's considered an off year. But to have a shot at reclaiming the No. 1 spot in our rankings, K.G. needs to lead the T-wolves deep into the playoffs again.
5. Amare Stoudemire, Suns. He's worth the wait.
6. LeBron James, Cavaliers. When he hit three 3-pointers in 55 seconds in the season opener, cold sweats broke out across the league. If the guy's going to shoot like that, forget about stopping him. He's considered by most G.M.s to be the league's most athletic player. Oh yeah -- he's only 20.
7. Dwyane Wade, Heat. One scout on our panel ranked Wade behind only Duncan, but we're not quite ready to go that far. Once he shows the same Jordanesque intensity on defense that he does on offense, we'll reconsider.
8. Kobe Bryant, Lakers. Based on early returns, Phil-Kobe Act II is going to be good for Kobe. His talent and drive are unsurpassed, but to return to our top five, Kobe has to take the Lakers into late May.
9. Tracy McGrady, Rockets. He showed how good he can be when he averaged 30.7 points in the playoffs and his defense frustrated Dirk Nowitzki for long stretches. But we'd like to see T-Mac's dominant stretches last for weeks instead of days.
10. Dirk Nowitzki, Mavericks. Seven-footers who can shoot 3s and lead fast breaks don't come along very often. If Nowitzki could provide even half the defensive presence of another versatile 7-footer (see No. 4), there would be no concerns about placing him higher.
11. Manu Ginobili, Spurs. Talk about a winner. NBA championship in '03, Olympic gold in '04, NBA championship in '05. There were many times last spring when Gi-NO-ba-lee! (we love hearing Charles Barkley say it) carried the Spurs with his breakneck style on both ends.
12. Gilbert Arenas, Wizards. The league's most talented point guard, Arenas is only 23 and still has some growing up to do. Once his maturity catches up to his skills, he'll be a fixture in our top 10.
13. Jermaine O'Neal, Pacers. An inside force on both ends, he still has not broken through with a career-defining season -- or playoff series. Until he does, this is as high as 24.3 points and 8.8 rebounds will get him.
14. Allen Iverson, 76ers. He has enough left to take over a game on any night. But he's a long way from returning the Sixers to the East's elite. And though he's the toughest player around pound for pound, we wonder how much more punishment he can absorb before his game begins to crack.
15. Ben Wallace, Pistons. His interior defense, blue-collar rebounding and relentless hustle make him the most irreplaceable Piston. He'd be ranked higher if not for his paltry 9.7 scoring average last season.
16. Shawn Marion, Suns. This guy can fly -- down the court and to the rim. He doesn't have a pretty shot, but he hits 47.6 percent of his attempts and is among the best one-on-one defenders at forward. He's a perfect fit for Phoenix's style.
17. Elton Brand, Clippers. He's good for 20 and 10 any time he slips on the sneakers, plus he shoots 50 percent and tries on defense. He might be unfairly docked here because he plays for the Clippers, but when you're on a team that has been a joke, it's tough to get your props.
18. Ron Artest, Pacers. If he's not the best one-on-one defender on the wing, he's the scariest. He's also a 20-point scorer with an obsession for winning that borders on unhealthy. That kind of fury is a good thing ... most of the time.
19. Ray Allen, SuperSonics. Owner of the league's prettiest jumper, Allen has proved he's more than a shooter. That said, we'd still like to see more than 3.7 assists, 4.4 rebounds and so-so defense.
20. Jason Kidd, Nets. His best likely is behind him, considering he is 32 (second oldest in the top 50) and a year removed from microfracture surgery. What we're seeing now, however, remains pretty sweet. Kidd still runs the break as well as anybody, is a smart defender and has triple double potential.
21. Yao Ming, Rockets. He'll never be Shaq, but he's still 7-5 and puts up the second-best numbers among centers -- 18.3 points, 55.2 percent shooting, 8.4 rebounds, 2.0 blocks. To reach the next level, he first needs to get his minutes up to the high 30s.
22. Vince Carter, Nets. Give him a dose of Wade's competitiveness and Carter would be in the Wade-Bryant-McGrady neighborhood. But since his move to Jersey, Carter has proved there's a lot left in his high-flying game.
23. Andrei Kirilenko, Jazz. He ranked No. 9 last year but missed 41 games, so now he has to work his way back up. That shouldn't be a problem given his ability to fill up a box score.
24. Pau Gasol, Grizzlies. The 7-footer has earned a reputation for being soft, but that hasn't prevented him from becoming one of the league's best post scorers. He has a nice touch out to 20 feet and is able to put the ball on the floor and finish with either hand.
25. Carmelo Anthony, Nuggets. George Karl seems to have gotten through to his high-scoring forward, who is more fit and more motivated after a disappointing second season. He has a strong midrange game but needs work in most other areas.
26. Chauncey Billups, Pistons. Ask five coaches who'd be the toughest Piston to replace and you'd likely get five different answers. But Billups' big-shot history and overpowering strength as a point guard put him ahead of all the Pistons except Wallace.
27. Baron Davis, Warriors. After he was traded to the Warriors, the injuries and attitude problems suddenly vanished. Though his ability to run a team is unquestioned, he'll have to be on good behavior for an entire season before he moves up in our rankings.
28. Paul Pierce, Celtics. He's a dependable scorer but hasn't quite stepped up and become the true leader his young teammates need. Whether he does this season will go a long way to determining his place as a superstar.
29. Mike Bibby, Kings. He's the point guard who best combines scoring and running the offense. Like Billups, Bibby has a way of making big shots. Unlike Billups, Bibby is not so big on defense.
30. (tie) Richard Hamilton, Pistons; Tayshaun Prince, Pistons. OK, we give up on trying to decide who's better. Each brings something different to the Pistons. "Rip" Hamilton is a tireless player whose movement without the ball and shooting are keys to the team's halfcourt offense. With his gangly body, Prince defends every position except the point and is an effective scorer who can shoot the 3 and drive to the basket.
32. Richard Jefferson, Nets. He excels in all areas and seems to be picking up where he left off before last season's broken wrist.
33. Tony Parker, Spurs. This lightning-quick point guard is only 23 and already has started for two title teams. He continues to improve his outside shot but still lacks the overall consistency of the true elites.
34. Joe Johnson, Hawks. He needs another season like the last one to convince us, but there's no denying his impact on the Suns last season. He made 47.8 percent of his 3s, averaged a career-best 17.1 points and was more than capable backing up the point.
35. Michael Redd, Bucks. 82games.com has numbers that show Redd is the league's worst defensive shooting guard -- by a lot. So what? Anyone who can score like Redd belongs in the top 50. Last season, he was one of 21 players who averaged 20 points or more, and they all made the list.
36. Stephon Marbury, Knicks. He's as talented as any point guard, but this is his 10th season and he's still trying to prove he can lead a winning team.
37. Antawn Jamison, Wizards. He lacks the forceful personality -- on or off the court -- to be the No. 1 guy on a good team, but he's a great No. 2.
38. Rashard Lewis, SuperSonics. Few 6-10 players match his ability to shoot and attack the rim, but if you're this tall and play 38 minutes a night, you need to grab more than 5.5 rebounds per game.
39. Lamar Odom, Lakers. Odom was overshadowed and overwhelmed by Bryant last season. Let's see whether Phil Jackson can help restore Odom to the level he was at two seasons ago.
40. Corey Maggette, Clippers. He's a stronger but not quite as talented version of Bryant. Maggette suffers from the same plight as Brand -- graded down for being a Clipper.
41. Peja Stojakovic, Kings. He doesn't do much besides score, but oh, can he shoot. After a couple of off games to start the season, Stojakovic tourched the Suns for 23 points (on 9-of-10 shooting) in one quarter last week. Before the season's over, he will have a lot of nights like that.
42. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cavaliers. Sure, he's clumsy-looking, but if you're 7-3 and average 16.9 points, you're virtually guaranteed a spot in the top 50.
43. Kenyon Martin, Nuggets. He isn't as good as he thinks he is, but you've got to like the athleticism and effort.
44. Steve Francis, Magic. The supertalented guard is holding himself back with his immaturity (just ask his ex-coaches).
45. Jason Richardson, Warriors. The game's best dunker quietly has become an upper-level, all-around player. He averaged career bests in scoring (21.7) and shooting (44.6 percent) in '04-05 and should be even better this season.
46. Larry Hughes, Cavaliers. He's a creative scorer and defender who should be a worthy sidekick for LeBron.
47. Rasheed Wallace, Pistons. Is he too unselfish or is it that he doesn't want the responsibility of a leader? Whatever, he has the talent to rank much higher than this.
48. Chris Webber, 76ers. His days of being the man are over, but he has developed enough savvy to remain productive.
49. Kirk Hinrich, Bulls. If you like young and gritty -- and we do -- then you will appreciate the Bulls' up-and-coming floor leader.
50. Shane Battier, Grizzlies. There may be 50 players more talented. Heck, there may be 100. But are there 50 we'd rather have on our team? No way.
Posted: November 16, 2005
No. 1 is easy. Any way you rank the NBA's top 50 players, Tim Duncan comes out on top.
Winning. He's the best player on the best team. Because "winning championships is the reason we're doing this," as one executive put it, you now know what our top consideration was when choosing players for the list.
Individual honors. Finals MVP. All-NBA first team (in each of his eight seasons), All-Defensive first team.
Stats. Duncan ranked No. 1 in the ratings deemed most important by the statistically inclined website 82games.com. If his plus-16.6 rating (based on the Spurs' point discrepancy when he's on vs. off the court) doesn't impress you, his 2004-05 numbers should: 20.3 points, 11.1 rebounds, 49.6 percent shooting, 2.6 blocks.
Polls. In the league's general managers' preseason survey, Duncan was an overwhelming pick to win his third MVP award and lead the Spurs to their second consecutive title. Of the six G.M.s and scouts who helped pick our top 50, five chose Duncan as their No. 1.
So there. A slam dunk for Duncan. But ranking Nos. 2-50 wasn't so easy. Prepare to disagree.
2. Shaquille O'Neal, Heat. At 33, the Greatest Center Ever is the oldest player in the top 50 and has begun to show his age. Still, he was the only player to average more than 20 points and shoot 60 percent from the floor last season, and he remains the player most difficult to prepare for. For all Dwyane Wade does, Shaq is the main reason G.M.s picked the Heat to win the East.
3. Steve Nash, Suns. How can a guy who never dunks be way up here? Easy. He's the absolute best at making his teammates better. And being the reigning MVP and the catalyst for the only team that won at least 60 games (the Suns won 62) last season doesn't hurt.
4. Kevin Garnett, Timberwolves. You know you're special when you check in with 22.2 points, a league-best 13.5 rebounds, 5.7 assists and 50.2 percent shooting and it's considered an off year. But to have a shot at reclaiming the No. 1 spot in our rankings, K.G. needs to lead the T-wolves deep into the playoffs again.
5. Amare Stoudemire, Suns. He's worth the wait.
6. LeBron James, Cavaliers. When he hit three 3-pointers in 55 seconds in the season opener, cold sweats broke out across the league. If the guy's going to shoot like that, forget about stopping him. He's considered by most G.M.s to be the league's most athletic player. Oh yeah -- he's only 20.
7. Dwyane Wade, Heat. One scout on our panel ranked Wade behind only Duncan, but we're not quite ready to go that far. Once he shows the same Jordanesque intensity on defense that he does on offense, we'll reconsider.
8. Kobe Bryant, Lakers. Based on early returns, Phil-Kobe Act II is going to be good for Kobe. His talent and drive are unsurpassed, but to return to our top five, Kobe has to take the Lakers into late May.
9. Tracy McGrady, Rockets. He showed how good he can be when he averaged 30.7 points in the playoffs and his defense frustrated Dirk Nowitzki for long stretches. But we'd like to see T-Mac's dominant stretches last for weeks instead of days.
10. Dirk Nowitzki, Mavericks. Seven-footers who can shoot 3s and lead fast breaks don't come along very often. If Nowitzki could provide even half the defensive presence of another versatile 7-footer (see No. 4), there would be no concerns about placing him higher.
11. Manu Ginobili, Spurs. Talk about a winner. NBA championship in '03, Olympic gold in '04, NBA championship in '05. There were many times last spring when Gi-NO-ba-lee! (we love hearing Charles Barkley say it) carried the Spurs with his breakneck style on both ends.
12. Gilbert Arenas, Wizards. The league's most talented point guard, Arenas is only 23 and still has some growing up to do. Once his maturity catches up to his skills, he'll be a fixture in our top 10.
13. Jermaine O'Neal, Pacers. An inside force on both ends, he still has not broken through with a career-defining season -- or playoff series. Until he does, this is as high as 24.3 points and 8.8 rebounds will get him.
14. Allen Iverson, 76ers. He has enough left to take over a game on any night. But he's a long way from returning the Sixers to the East's elite. And though he's the toughest player around pound for pound, we wonder how much more punishment he can absorb before his game begins to crack.
15. Ben Wallace, Pistons. His interior defense, blue-collar rebounding and relentless hustle make him the most irreplaceable Piston. He'd be ranked higher if not for his paltry 9.7 scoring average last season.
16. Shawn Marion, Suns. This guy can fly -- down the court and to the rim. He doesn't have a pretty shot, but he hits 47.6 percent of his attempts and is among the best one-on-one defenders at forward. He's a perfect fit for Phoenix's style.
17. Elton Brand, Clippers. He's good for 20 and 10 any time he slips on the sneakers, plus he shoots 50 percent and tries on defense. He might be unfairly docked here because he plays for the Clippers, but when you're on a team that has been a joke, it's tough to get your props.
18. Ron Artest, Pacers. If he's not the best one-on-one defender on the wing, he's the scariest. He's also a 20-point scorer with an obsession for winning that borders on unhealthy. That kind of fury is a good thing ... most of the time.
19. Ray Allen, SuperSonics. Owner of the league's prettiest jumper, Allen has proved he's more than a shooter. That said, we'd still like to see more than 3.7 assists, 4.4 rebounds and so-so defense.
20. Jason Kidd, Nets. His best likely is behind him, considering he is 32 (second oldest in the top 50) and a year removed from microfracture surgery. What we're seeing now, however, remains pretty sweet. Kidd still runs the break as well as anybody, is a smart defender and has triple double potential.
21. Yao Ming, Rockets. He'll never be Shaq, but he's still 7-5 and puts up the second-best numbers among centers -- 18.3 points, 55.2 percent shooting, 8.4 rebounds, 2.0 blocks. To reach the next level, he first needs to get his minutes up to the high 30s.
22. Vince Carter, Nets. Give him a dose of Wade's competitiveness and Carter would be in the Wade-Bryant-McGrady neighborhood. But since his move to Jersey, Carter has proved there's a lot left in his high-flying game.
23. Andrei Kirilenko, Jazz. He ranked No. 9 last year but missed 41 games, so now he has to work his way back up. That shouldn't be a problem given his ability to fill up a box score.
24. Pau Gasol, Grizzlies. The 7-footer has earned a reputation for being soft, but that hasn't prevented him from becoming one of the league's best post scorers. He has a nice touch out to 20 feet and is able to put the ball on the floor and finish with either hand.
25. Carmelo Anthony, Nuggets. George Karl seems to have gotten through to his high-scoring forward, who is more fit and more motivated after a disappointing second season. He has a strong midrange game but needs work in most other areas.
26. Chauncey Billups, Pistons. Ask five coaches who'd be the toughest Piston to replace and you'd likely get five different answers. But Billups' big-shot history and overpowering strength as a point guard put him ahead of all the Pistons except Wallace.
27. Baron Davis, Warriors. After he was traded to the Warriors, the injuries and attitude problems suddenly vanished. Though his ability to run a team is unquestioned, he'll have to be on good behavior for an entire season before he moves up in our rankings.
28. Paul Pierce, Celtics. He's a dependable scorer but hasn't quite stepped up and become the true leader his young teammates need. Whether he does this season will go a long way to determining his place as a superstar.
29. Mike Bibby, Kings. He's the point guard who best combines scoring and running the offense. Like Billups, Bibby has a way of making big shots. Unlike Billups, Bibby is not so big on defense.
30. (tie) Richard Hamilton, Pistons; Tayshaun Prince, Pistons. OK, we give up on trying to decide who's better. Each brings something different to the Pistons. "Rip" Hamilton is a tireless player whose movement without the ball and shooting are keys to the team's halfcourt offense. With his gangly body, Prince defends every position except the point and is an effective scorer who can shoot the 3 and drive to the basket.
32. Richard Jefferson, Nets. He excels in all areas and seems to be picking up where he left off before last season's broken wrist.
33. Tony Parker, Spurs. This lightning-quick point guard is only 23 and already has started for two title teams. He continues to improve his outside shot but still lacks the overall consistency of the true elites.
34. Joe Johnson, Hawks. He needs another season like the last one to convince us, but there's no denying his impact on the Suns last season. He made 47.8 percent of his 3s, averaged a career-best 17.1 points and was more than capable backing up the point.
35. Michael Redd, Bucks. 82games.com has numbers that show Redd is the league's worst defensive shooting guard -- by a lot. So what? Anyone who can score like Redd belongs in the top 50. Last season, he was one of 21 players who averaged 20 points or more, and they all made the list.
36. Stephon Marbury, Knicks. He's as talented as any point guard, but this is his 10th season and he's still trying to prove he can lead a winning team.
37. Antawn Jamison, Wizards. He lacks the forceful personality -- on or off the court -- to be the No. 1 guy on a good team, but he's a great No. 2.
38. Rashard Lewis, SuperSonics. Few 6-10 players match his ability to shoot and attack the rim, but if you're this tall and play 38 minutes a night, you need to grab more than 5.5 rebounds per game.
39. Lamar Odom, Lakers. Odom was overshadowed and overwhelmed by Bryant last season. Let's see whether Phil Jackson can help restore Odom to the level he was at two seasons ago.
40. Corey Maggette, Clippers. He's a stronger but not quite as talented version of Bryant. Maggette suffers from the same plight as Brand -- graded down for being a Clipper.
41. Peja Stojakovic, Kings. He doesn't do much besides score, but oh, can he shoot. After a couple of off games to start the season, Stojakovic tourched the Suns for 23 points (on 9-of-10 shooting) in one quarter last week. Before the season's over, he will have a lot of nights like that.
42. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Cavaliers. Sure, he's clumsy-looking, but if you're 7-3 and average 16.9 points, you're virtually guaranteed a spot in the top 50.
43. Kenyon Martin, Nuggets. He isn't as good as he thinks he is, but you've got to like the athleticism and effort.
44. Steve Francis, Magic. The supertalented guard is holding himself back with his immaturity (just ask his ex-coaches).
45. Jason Richardson, Warriors. The game's best dunker quietly has become an upper-level, all-around player. He averaged career bests in scoring (21.7) and shooting (44.6 percent) in '04-05 and should be even better this season.
46. Larry Hughes, Cavaliers. He's a creative scorer and defender who should be a worthy sidekick for LeBron.
47. Rasheed Wallace, Pistons. Is he too unselfish or is it that he doesn't want the responsibility of a leader? Whatever, he has the talent to rank much higher than this.
48. Chris Webber, 76ers. His days of being the man are over, but he has developed enough savvy to remain productive.
49. Kirk Hinrich, Bulls. If you like young and gritty -- and we do -- then you will appreciate the Bulls' up-and-coming floor leader.
50. Shane Battier, Grizzlies. There may be 50 players more talented. Heck, there may be 100. But are there 50 we'd rather have on our team? No way.