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View Full Version : If the Spurs do get Kidd, how do you breakdown the minutes?



KoriEllis
06-22-2003, 06:40 PM
I was contemplating it last night and unfortunately, one of our players is going to be the odd man out if Kidd is in a Spurs uniform.

No matter how you cut it, there just isn't enough minutes at point guard, shooting guard and small forward to split amongst the five players: Kidd, Parker, Manu, Jack and Bowen. I think that the Spurs will probably NOT re-sign Jack and Manu will be relegated to coming off the bench. And that's a real shame. :(

I am more in favor of getting a big man as opposed to Kidd, but I don't think the Spurs can pass on a player of Kidd's caliber if O'Neal doesn't come.


Point Guard
Tony Parker 32
Jason Kidd 16

Shooting Guard
Jason Kidd 22
Manu 26

Small Forward
Bowen 25
Jack 23

^^ See it doesn't work. Manu, Bowen and Jack are all slighted. And it will get even worse come playoff time.


Point Guard
Tony Parker 34
Jason Kidd 14

Shooting Guard
Jason Kidd 24
Manu 24

Small Forward
Bowen 30
Manu 18

^^^See that works a little better, but Manu can't see that many minutes at the 3 and Jack is gone. So honestly, if Kidd comes, then Tony is the odd man out.


Point Guard
Jason Kidd 38
Speedy 10

Shooting Guard
Manu 34
Jack 14

Small Forward
Bowen 30
Jack 18

^^ That's without Tony. :cry

-----------


My question to you guys who advocate Kidd coming is how do you see the minutes breaking down?

baseline bum
06-22-2003, 06:54 PM
PG
Kidd 35
Parker 13

SG
Parker 20
Ginobili 15
Jackson 13

SF
Bowen 24
Jackson 12
Ginobili 12

No way Kidd's playing 44 minutes a game - Jax loses about 3 minutes a game, Kidd plays 35, Parker 33, Manu 27, Jax 25, Bruce 24... that's a filthy 1-2-3 lineup, but the team still badly needs a big after signing Kidd.

Archie
06-22-2003, 06:55 PM
You have Kidd playing some heavy minutes.

Archie
06-22-2003, 06:55 PM
That sounds about right bbum.

KoriEllis
06-22-2003, 06:59 PM
Manu 27, Jax 25, Bruce 24... that's a filthy 1-2-3 lineup, but the team still badly needs a big after signing Kidd.

I actually made some mistakes in my calculations, so adjusted. My plan was to play Kidd around 38 minutes.

I don't think Jack will be here if Kidd is here. And you are right, they still need a big.

Doesn't it seem simpler to leave our 1-2-3's alone and just get a big?

baseline bum
06-22-2003, 07:04 PM
A big is my first choice, but Brand is extrememely doubtful. Jermaine would be awesome, but it's more likely he stays in Indy rather than leaves, which leaves the Spurs with a bunch of crap to choose from at the 5/4. Olowokandi only interests me if the Spurs get GP too. Otherwise, **** him. At least Payton will make up for Kandi being a piece of shit if the KandiAss doesn't live up to the hype.

baseline bum
06-22-2003, 07:06 PM
38 I think is too much to play Kidd in the regular season. He averaged 37 this year, but at age 30 the Spurs need to be concerned with lengthening Kidd's career by keeping his minutes down a bit. 35 seems reasonable, with 38-40 in the playoffs.

KoriEllis
06-22-2003, 07:07 PM
Olowokandi only interests me if the Spurs get GP too

What kind of money are you willing to pay each of those two?

Pop says that the Spurs have around $15million available. So let's just use that number for argument sake.

baseline bum
06-22-2003, 07:12 PM
GP $8.5M, KandiAss $6.5 M

KoriEllis
06-22-2003, 07:16 PM
I think Denver gives Kandi more money than that. No matter how much I watch him -- and I know that he is incredibly lazy -- part of me would like to see what Kandi could do in a system like the Spurs.

Even though this offseason the Spurs have a lot of money to spend and are just coming off a Championship, I find the free agent possibilities nerve-racking at times. I know there's a lot of talent out there, but when it comes down to it most of the big names will stay put. :evil

Guru of Nothing
06-22-2003, 07:30 PM
I think Denver gives Kandi more money than that. (6.5 million)

Kiki seems to be very savvy handling the salary cap, a la Pop, and I don't think he will go overboard with a possible Kandi contract. If I'm Kandi, I only wish a team wants to give me 6.5 mill, long-term.

spurster
06-22-2003, 08:15 PM
I see something like your first option, Kori.

Guard rotation: Kidd (36), Parker (30), Manu (30).
SF rotation: Bowen (24), SJax (24).
Bigman rotation: TD (40), Rose (30), ??? (26)

Besides lower minutes in the backcourt, TD will need to continue heavy minutes in the frontcourt because ??? will likely be the weakest player in the rotation.

Archie
06-22-2003, 08:15 PM
If the Spurs can keep the current team intact then they can definitely keep Kidd's minutes down during the regular season. Should they be so fortunate as to add Kidd then they can work on getting a credible starting big with their remaining cap room. It's not like the Spurs will have an opportunity to add a player of the caliber of JO'Neal/Kidd/Brand/Payton every summer during Duncan's prime. He's at the top of his game now and will be for the next 5 to 6 years. First and foremost the goal this summer should be to add a great player to this team not just fill a position.

This team has plenty of room for improvement, especially when it come to finding offense from someone not named Duncan...especially when he isn't on the floor.

It would be nice to find a replacement for DRob but think about what DRob's contributions were this season. We all remember the DRob of old but he was a role player not a superstar this season. Just something to keep in mind.

MannyIsGod
06-22-2003, 08:42 PM
man, am i the only one that thinks payton is done?

Anyhow.

Point - 30 Kidd
18 - Parker

Shooting - 12 - Parker
24 - Manu
12 - Jax

Three - Bowen 30
Jax - 18

That comes out to
30 minutes for eveyrone except Manu who has 24 (not bad at all for a reserve)

Thats really very balanced, and of course Pop going to whoever was hot in a particular game, maybe TP only plays 20 minutes one game because Manu is on.

Thats pretty reasonable if you ask me. This of course assumes speedy is gone.

danyel
06-22-2003, 09:55 PM
Aren't you guys forgetting about someone? how about some minutes for Steve "Bling Bling" Kerr?

Seriously, let me add another point of discussion. Who do you play at crunch time?

Kidd, TP, Manu? too small but might happen
Kidd, Manu, SJax? would TP be cool with it?

Jimcs50
06-22-2003, 09:55 PM
Well, you won't have to worry about minutes in the playoffs, because the Spurs won't get there at all........ with Kidd instead of a good frontline player top replace DRob.

o0drpill0o
06-22-2003, 10:00 PM
Please Jim, you're reaching pretty hard if you think a Duncan-Kidd led team won't even make the playoffs... Can they win the title is another story...

Jimcs50
06-22-2003, 10:05 PM
I am just trying to make a point here.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
06-22-2003, 10:10 PM
Would we ever sign Kidd then trade him mid-year for a big, or would that hurt the franchise in the eyes of players?

Archie
06-22-2003, 11:28 PM
:rolleyes

Another thing Spurs fans are forgetting is that Kidd is the best rebounding guard in the league. That's a significant plus considering that he usually gets most of his rebounds near the top of the key...that is, rebounds the Spurs don't make with as much frequency.

Jimcs50
06-22-2003, 11:50 PM
And Alvin Robertson was a great rebounding guard too, and look what that did for us. We need a huge frontline, not any extra guards. Kidd is almost a hasbeen, he can not shoot, he throws lobs to KMart and Jefferson, any monkey can do that, he did not carry NJ to the championship, he can't replace DRob, even with his 5 rebs a game. i can not wait til July so we can stop all this crap about a player we do not need or want, for that matter.

scott
06-23-2003, 12:16 AM
Should they be so fortunate as to add Kidd then they can work on getting a credible starting big with their remaining cap room.

If Tyrone Hill fits the definition of "credible starting big," we are in trouble.

Archie
06-23-2003, 12:22 AM
And (http://And) Alvin Robertson was a great rebounding guard too, and look what that did for us.

WTF is your point?

Archie
06-23-2003, 12:25 AM
If Tyrone Hill fits the definition of "credible starting big," we are in trouble.

PJ Brown, Juwan Howard, etc... But hey, I hope this franchise does the smart thing :spin and dismisses Jason Kidd for someone they really need like Michael Olowokandi. Yeah.

scott
06-23-2003, 12:27 AM
PJ Brown or Juwan Howard would be nice bigs.

Tyrone Hill is not, nor should it ever be, an option for the starting line up.

Archie
06-23-2003, 12:29 AM
Seeing as how the Spurs 'need' to replace 8.5 points and 7.9 rebounds I think some have their expectations set just a little bit too high.

scott
06-23-2003, 12:46 AM
5.6 and 7.0 (not to mention 42% FG) in the Eastern Confernce ain't gonna do it son.

Jimcs50
06-23-2003, 12:57 AM
Oh man, now you have gone way toooo far Marcus...those are fighting words.You are guilty of blasphemy and sacrilege in the highest order and must be condemned to death. If you think replacing DRob is something so easy to do, you are the stupidest man in the forum and you have a lot of company IMO. DRob did so much more for this team than offer up his 10 pts and 8 rebs, he was our defensive leader and inspirational leader, he was the epitome of Spurs bball. You can not measure his importance to this team by his stat line. If you think Kidd can fill the void left by DRob, you are sadly mistaken. Jason Kidd can not carry David's jock, much less replace him on this team. I never thought I would see a fan forget the most important player in this franchises history so readily....

Archie
06-23-2003, 01:10 AM
Whatever Jim.

Archie
06-23-2003, 01:11 AM
Yeah scotty those numbers are just too far off. Nevermind that you just added a Jason Kidd to the team.

MannyIsGod
06-23-2003, 01:48 AM
Jim,
I think its safe to say the majority of the people here want a big rather than Kidd. But I'd rather have Kidd than Kandi. It's stupid to think that the spurs can't win with one dominant big man, most of the teams out west do that. If we add Kidd, trust me, we play a diffrent game, but we don't nessecarily take a step backwords.

Yes, J Oneal or Brand if you can get either, but FACE REALITY IF YOU CAN'T. Kidd is the best option therefore. You play with the cards you are delt.

Jimcs50
06-23-2003, 09:42 AM
We are getting O'Neal, I just know it. Trust me on this.

scott
06-23-2003, 10:15 AM
Yeah scotty those numbers are just too far off. Nevermind that you just added a Jason Kidd to the team.

You are right. I totally forgot about the low post presence Jason Kidd brings. May he'll stop Shaq from putting 40 on us every time we play the Lakers.

Solid D
06-23-2003, 10:53 AM
Jack will draw some serious looks (and some serioius "Jack" offers) this off-season. I'd hate to see Jack leave, but he was nails in the clutch and he led the Spurs in steals, so he WILL bring attention from other clubs looking for athleticism, quickness, and shooting.

The Spurs will be put in a compromising position if they money-up on the big FA, a second-tier FA, and then see what's left for Jack. He's got a target on the front AND on the back of his FA jersey.

spurster
06-23-2003, 12:00 PM
The Spurs will be put in a compromising position if they money-up on the big FA, a second-tier FA, and then see what's left for Jack. He's got a target on the front AND on the back of his FA jersey.
I thought that even after the Spurs use up their cap space, they can still offer up to the MLE to SJax.

Archie
06-23-2003, 12:07 PM
You are right. I totally forgot about the low post presence Jason Kidd brings. May he'll stop Shaq from putting 40 on us every time we play the Lakers.

Right, we cannot expect Tim Duncan to actually play D. And of course should the Spurs follow your line of reasoning to its absurd end they would pass on Jason Kidd for Michael Olowokandi.

Ghost Writer
06-23-2003, 12:11 PM
If Kidd comes, trade Parker's @ss.

Next.

:cooldevil

Archie
06-23-2003, 12:11 PM
SJack is an Early Bird free agent. He will count roughly $900K against the cap until he is re-signed, renounced, or signs with another team. The Spurs can sign other free agents before signing him. They are allowed to sign him to a new contract starting at up to the NBA average salary, which is basically the MLE.

scott
06-23-2003, 12:12 PM
For obvious reasons, Tim Duncan doesn't play Shaq for the majority of the game.

I've never suggested Olowokandi over Kidd. Quit making up things to justify your man-lust for Tyrone Hill. Why don't we call JR Reid up- maybe he can be our starting 5. But hey, at least we'll have Kidd.

Archie
06-23-2003, 12:16 PM
Oh, so now I'm making things up? Right.

Speaking of "manlust" you seem to have a fairly big dose of it for Monsieur Parker.

You cannot have an all-star at every position. Like it or not that's the way it is.

CosmicCowboyXXX
06-23-2003, 12:18 PM
I agree...

all the talk of playing Kidd and Parker in the same backcourt is just a smokescreen...If they sign Kidd they need to trade Parker while his value is high...there are lots of teams that need a proven point guard and have young talent to bargain with...

Jimcs50
06-23-2003, 12:18 PM
Kandi + Maggette > Kidd*

*For the Spur's needs. We do not need a 6'4" pointguard. We need athleticism and height, we need defense in the post, we need outside shooters.

Just think about the games we lost in the playoffs, we sucked in shooting, FTs and TOs. Our defense was never bad, it was a constant. You have a 7 footer in the paint who can block and alter shots and rebound in Kandi, that is what Dave brought to the table. O'Neal would be so much better if we snare him, but I would rather have Maggette and Kandi together than Kidd by himself if O'Neal stays put. You put Maggette with Manu, and Jackson and Parker, you will have a team that can break down any defense.

Ghost Writer
06-23-2003, 01:07 PM
I don't like the Maggette part. Maggette doesn't give anything that Manu & Jack don't give us for cheaper.

I'd take Olowokandi and use the remaining money to extend some contracts of current players.

:cooldevil

scott
06-23-2003, 01:31 PM
I don't like the Maggette part. Maggette doesn't give anything that Manu & Jack don't give us for cheaper.

You've got it nailed, Ghost.

6 months ago Maggette would have sounded nice- but his 4 extra ppg are mitigated by Jackson's clutch abilities, loyalty to the team, willingness to improve/adapt, playoff experience, and significantly lower cost.

Then you consider Manu in addition and Maggette seems more and more like fool's gold.

Jimcs50
06-23-2003, 02:02 PM
Scott, IMO you can not too many athletic swingmen that can take defenders off the dribble or stop and pop from 15-23 ft. Maggette has the pedigree and all the skills to really help this team go to the next level. Next level you ask? I am talking dynasty.

scott
06-23-2003, 02:07 PM
No denying Maggette's talent. But you can indeed have too many athletic swingmen. See Portland.

Maggette is only a marginal improvement over Jackson, and doesn't have the big game experience and will likely cost twice as much.

It's all about value Jim.

Ghost Writer
06-23-2003, 02:09 PM
Right on.

On a Spurs team where we're already nitpicking about Jackson-Manu-Bowen minutes, adding Maggette to the mix could do more damage than ggod.


:cooldevil

Jimcs50
06-23-2003, 02:15 PM
Maggette won a championship at Duke that is experience enough. Besides the Spurs proved that experience is over-rated this year anyway, with almost nobody having any Finals experience besides Tim, Dave, Steve and Rose and with all four winning the championship in their first try at the Finals at that.

I know it looks like they do not need that position filled, but with injuries a possibility(see Manu last year) it would be nice to not miss a beat if one of those 3 go down next year.

Ghost Writer
06-23-2003, 02:17 PM
The only way Maggette makes sense is if you plan on moving Bowe, Jackson or Manu.

:cooldevil

scott
06-23-2003, 02:18 PM
Jim, you know better than to use Duke as a positive endorsement for a player! :)

Jimcs50
06-23-2003, 02:23 PM
I am a Maryland fan, but I respect Duke and NC in the ACC, and watch a lot of their games, so I know they have great players. Who else are we talking about getting? Elton Brand? Where is he from? :) and don't forget Ferry....:)

MannyIsGod
06-23-2003, 02:25 PM
I'm not in agreement that Kandi Maggette>Kidd theory.

Magette is good, but, man, I think the spurs need him alot less than Jax. I don't deny magette is good and will be better more than likely, but I think the same about jax.

If we trade parker, which won't bother me much, We'd better find a way to keep speedy and get a good big this offseaons also.

I wish it was july 1st already.

Jimcs50
06-23-2003, 02:33 PM
Manny as one Redskin fan to another, I will just repectfully disagree with you. We should NOT trade TP. He is going to one of the best pointguards in the league.

timvp
06-23-2003, 02:50 PM
The team won't work with Parker, Kidd, Manu, Jack and Bowen all fighting for minutes. You'd have to get rid of 1 or 2 of them.

I wouldn't trade Parker unless I got a very good power forward.

If you get Kidd, the only thing that makes sense is just revamping your team. And coming off of a Championship, I just don't see how you do that.

Kidd would change everything. I'm not 100% sure it would be for the better, however.




P.S.

F Maggette.

KoriEllis
06-24-2003, 12:40 AM
I'm not a fan of Maggette at all. I had Clippers tickets for a while and he's one of my least favorites.

Patrick Davis
06-24-2003, 12:43 AM
It really doesn't matter. If we get Kidd, we prove all the haters right. If Spurs sign Kidd, they will NOT win another championship in Kidd's time here.

Jimcs50
06-24-2003, 02:05 PM
I'm not a fan of Maggette at all. I had Clippers tickets for a while and he's one of my least favorites.


That was 2 yrs ago, you need to watch him now Kori.

KoriEllis
06-24-2003, 02:12 PM
Jim, I watched him this season. We have League Pass.

I am still not a fan.

Jimcs50
06-24-2003, 02:18 PM
Kori, you will be..... when he is wearing the Silver and Black this year.:)

KoriEllis
06-24-2003, 02:22 PM
Jim, he won't be in Silver and Black. If you are saying O'Neal is coming, that leaves no money for someone like Maggette.

timvp
06-24-2003, 02:25 PM
Maggette makes no sense. He doesn't fit into the rotation. Where is he going to get minutes? Jackson, Manu and Bowen play most of the 2/3 minutes.

Archie
06-24-2003, 02:27 PM
Maggette would be nice as a 3rd star but there's no room at the inn for him.

Ghost Writer
06-24-2003, 02:47 PM
How come there's no room for Maggette with Manu & Jack, yet there's room for Kidd with Parker and Claxton?




Question.

:cooldevil

Archie
06-24-2003, 02:51 PM
Re-read what you just posted. Don't worry, we all make mistakes.

Ghost Writer
06-24-2003, 03:21 PM
I guess in your mind, Kidd is so good that you don't care if bringing him aboard solves no hole sin the lineup and actually creates a logjam at other spots.




Brilliant.


I mean, what the hell? We're only talking about a max contract fro someone we don't need, right?


:cooldevil

Archie
06-24-2003, 03:32 PM
I guess in your mind, Kidd is so good that you don't care if bringing him aboard solves no hole sin the lineup and actually creates a logjam at other spots.

Um, yeah.




Brilliant.

Nah, just common sense. Hopefully you will stumble across some sooner or later, homer.




I mean, what the hell? We're only talking about a max contract fro someone we don't need, right?

Yeah, the Spurs could never use a great player like Kidd. All they need is a Michael Olowokandi.

Jimcs50
06-24-2003, 04:12 PM
To be honest, I would rather have Marbury or Nash over Kidd, at least they can shoot the ball and extend the defense. Here is a point that you need to realize Marcus. What was the key defensive strategy that we used against NJ in the playoffs to turn the tide? It was a zone, why was a zone effective??? It was because Kidd can not shoot, so we dared him to shoot and he failed miserably. would we ever use a zone that was as effective against Dallas and Phoenix??? Hell no, why? Because they could just shoot the ball right over our zone. If we had Kidd, the whole league would use a zone against us, and Tim would suffer.

Ghost Writer
06-24-2003, 04:13 PM
Olowokandi '03 = Robinson '02

Spurs '02 = title


Good day.


:cooldevil

Jimcs50
06-24-2003, 04:36 PM
Jim, he won't be in Silver and Black. If you are saying O'Neal is coming, that leaves no money for someone like Maggette.

Kori, I am saying we get Maggette along with a lower priced center like Miller or Kandi only IF if we do not get O'Neal

Archie
06-24-2003, 04:42 PM
Keep telling yourself that, homer.

'Olowokandi > Kidd.' :spin

Ghost Writer
06-24-2003, 04:57 PM
Excuse me, retard.

I never said that Olowokandi was better than Kidd.

He is absolutely a better fit for the Spurs based on the current roster and how much we'd have to invest financially into Kidd, though.

How'd your fantasy NBA team do this year?

:cooldevil

Archie
06-24-2003, 05:04 PM
Shut up 'tard homer Holting Pattern scared money purveyor. Your myopic philosophy is the surest path to destruction for this Spurs franchise.

Oh, so now you only think that Olowokandi is a better fit, not the better player. Well, that makes a lot of sense. Pass on a great player for a scrub simply because the latter fills a need. Great idea, Grandpa.

Ghost Writer
06-24-2003, 05:12 PM
No one would argue that Olowokandi is better than Kidd, @ssh0le.

He's a better fit for the Spurs, because we already have two PGs that were good enough to get us a title and we're losing our starting center.

Until you show me how we're suppossed to split up all those minutes and find a starting center after signing Kidd to the max, I will insist that you're biting off more than you can chew.

"Get Kidd and adjust."

Shom me how to "adjust" or STFU.

:cooldevil

Jimcs50
06-24-2003, 05:18 PM
Getting Kidd sucks! Marcus, come to your senses man....I used to think you knew what you were talking about, but this is total ignorant thinking on your part. I just want to come slap the shit out of you to wake you up from this fucking Kidd trance you are in....Is this a Scoobie Doo cartoon or what?

Archie
06-24-2003, 05:19 PM
Can you guarantee me that next season Michael Olowokandi is an All-NBA second team member, 'tards?





Question. :cooldevil

MannyIsGod
06-24-2003, 05:28 PM
Can you guarntee me Kidd will be next year? Because I don't think you can. Nash and Marbury are going to give him some stiff competition.

Kandi does have potential to be a top 5 center in this watered down center situation, I'll give him that.

Ghost Writer
06-24-2003, 05:38 PM
Shom me how to "adjust" with Kidd or STFU.

:cooldevil

scott
06-24-2003, 05:44 PM
It'll be pretty hard for Kidd to make second team all NBA averaging 14 points and 7 assists- which is probably what he is looking at as a Spur.

Ghost Writer
06-24-2003, 05:47 PM
I can guarantee the same or better numbers for Olowokandi next year as Robinson this past year on the Spurs. That was enough to get a title this year, wasn't it?


Question.


P.S.

Show us all how you'd "adjust" with Kidd. Play him at center?


:cooldevil

Archie
06-24-2003, 05:50 PM
I guarantee that Olowokandi would suck and Casper would disavow his current cravings for some Kandi come next season.

Jimcs50
06-24-2003, 05:52 PM
Kandi might be a scrub, but he is better for Sa than that cancer kidd. Kandi+ Maggette > Kidd +Hill

T Park Num 9
06-24-2003, 05:52 PM
Waiting on the adjustments.......................:sleepy

Ghost Writer
06-24-2003, 05:57 PM
Still waiting...


:sleep

Archie
06-24-2003, 06:01 PM
Yes, you must be dreaming if you think saddling Tim Duncan with Michael Olowokandi for the next 6 seasons is preferable to giving him a Jason Kidd to go to war with.

T Park Num 9
06-24-2003, 06:02 PM
What are the adjustments??

Your just waffling. Answer the question.


Sign Jason Kidd.


THEN WHAT????

Archie
06-24-2003, 06:02 PM
Enough out of you, Palo Alto.

T Park Num 9
06-24-2003, 06:05 PM
Cant answer the question.

Resorts to the mindnumbing stupidy of name calling.


LOL Pathetic Arch.


Cant answer the question, so you say STFU.


Intelligent there ag.

Archie
06-24-2003, 06:07 PM
Pardon me, I believe you just posted something, but I cannot make out what you wrote.

ducks
06-24-2003, 06:18 PM
spurs have less adjustment with oneal becuase oneal takes dave spot and that is it.

Archie
06-24-2003, 06:20 PM
Well sure. What if Mr. O'Neal doesn't sign?

Jimcs50
06-24-2003, 06:40 PM
Well sure. What if Mr. O'Neal doesn't sign?


That is not a possibility, he is as good as signed from what I hear.

ducks
05-11-2019, 12:51 AM
Thank God that did not happen