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View Full Version : Elton or Jermaine?



timvp
06-20-2003, 01:45 PM
If you were living Pop's dream where he had a choice between those two players, who would you want? To me, it's a pretty tough decision.

Jermaine O'Neal
Pluses
A very skilled player. He is already a superstar and is improving. He can score on the block and has a good jumper. He's a good shotblocker and would fit the mold of David Robinson very well. Seems to want to win and is a very bright person.
Minuses
He might get in the way of Duncan because they play a similar style. He might not want to play second fiddle now that he's getting the exposure. Not too much big game experience.


Elton Brand
Pluses
The ultimate trash player. He could average 20 and 10 and you'd never have to run a player for him. Wouldn't get in the way of Duncan. Is a good shotblocker. Has played in big games and is a smart player.
Minuses
Is probably around 6'7. Would force Duncan to move to center. Could lose a lot of the intimidation factor that a player like Robinson or O'Neal would bring. Doesn't have a polished outside shot.



This is a tough choice for me. Either one would be great.

Right now I'm leaning towards O'Neal just for the fact that he's bigger and could play center but I might switch to Brand the more I think about it.

:drunk

Marcus Bryant
06-20-2003, 01:49 PM
Elton's put up 20 and 10 but it's a 20/10 game that didn't seem to help his teams win much. Granted, that doesn't matter as much in SA where he would be filling a role, but in my opinion he's not a franchise-type player.

Jermaine's a different story.

CosmicCowboyXXX
06-20-2003, 01:50 PM
I wouldn't even hesitate to take J O'Neal in an either/or scenario...a Duncan/O'Neal frontcourt would be absolutely unstoppable and impossible to gameplan against...

Jimcs50
06-20-2003, 01:51 PM
Elton or Jermain? I like Elton much more. His Goodbye Yellow Brick Road album is a classic. Jermain had one or two songs that were decent, but there is really no comparison, he was no where near as talented as his brother Michael.

scott
06-20-2003, 01:52 PM
I don't think Brand's size is at an issue.

If we sign Kidd, we'll be okay with the 6'5 Malik Rose starting at C, but Elton Brand isn't big enough?

In our offense, Duncan plays C a lot of the time anyway- even if we like to call him the PF.

I prefer Brand for the reason you pointed out. He's a scorer without needing a lot of plays called for him. He's also a tremendous offensive rebounder (I believe he led the league in OREB/48 Minutes last season).

Either way, we couldn't go wrong though.

I'd be extremely happy with either. But given the choice, I personally would take Brand. It's not an easy choice to make though.

DeSPURado
06-20-2003, 01:53 PM
My pick is Brand for all the reasons you listed plus I don't think there would be question marks when it comes to playing next to Duncan and in Pop's set offense. For me Brand just seems to fit this team better than Jermaine. But I would truly be happy with either, I just think that as a GM or coach I would consider Brand to be the better fit even if he is not ultimately the better player.

IcemanCometh
06-20-2003, 02:04 PM
Kevin Garnett

Marcus Bryant
06-20-2003, 02:05 PM
If the Spurs signed Kidd Rose would still come off the bench.

scott
06-20-2003, 02:10 PM
Because Kidd would start at C?

Marcus Bryant
06-20-2003, 02:15 PM
No because the Spurs would have cap room left over to sign a starting big.

MannyIsGod
06-20-2003, 02:17 PM
lmao scott.

I probably take Brand, I think he's better overall.

IcemanCometh
06-20-2003, 02:17 PM
why wuld we want to start adonal foyle?

Marcus Bryant
06-20-2003, 02:17 PM
Either Brown or Howard. Mourning is available as well.

scott
06-20-2003, 02:18 PM
That doesn't mean they will.

You've given the impression that you are okay with Malik Rose starting at the 5, if necessary. I'm more than okay with Malik Rose starting at the 5. Why would Elton Brand not be able to start at the 5?

Marcus Bryant
06-20-2003, 02:20 PM
Then Tyrone Hill. Spurs will be able to make a competitive offer to a free agent big I'm not concerned about that.

As for Brand I don't believe I've said he couldn't start or was too small or whatever. I was only disagreeing with the assumption that Rose would start if Kidd came.

scott
06-20-2003, 02:22 PM
Great. See if you can find any more irrelevant points to bring up.

IcemanCometh
06-20-2003, 02:23 PM
howard is all but considered a lock to return home to michigan.

we would have to compete with the lakers for brown.

we would have to compete with the mavs and who knows who else for zo. dallas has alot of fluffy towels man.

tyrone hill is not a starting big man

coz
06-20-2003, 02:28 PM
Brand puts up great numbers in the West. O'Neal puts them up in the East. Brand has proven that he can get it done against the best in the league. O'Neal has proven he can get it done against overmatched, smaller Eastern conference foes. Brand can play with or without the ball, he works his butt off regardless. O'Neal needs the ball, and needs it a lot, otherwise he pouts and cries, and eventually becomes too frustrated to be effective (see WC). Brand came back last year after suffering a knee injury, with only a few games left, to finish the season strong. O'Neal ended his season pouting about how his team mates sucked, and how dissappointed he was with everyone but himself.

O'Neal, no thanks......

Brand + Duncan = Dynasty

scott
06-20-2003, 02:30 PM
Hill is hardly a decent backup big in the east.

You might be happy with his 5.4ppg and 42% shooting starting at C- but I'd much rather see #31 starting at the 5.

Tyrone Hill's decrepit bones might make us miss Charles Smith's PF play.

IcemanCometh
06-20-2003, 02:30 PM
o'neal played with a crazy man coached by a clown cut him some slack.

scott
06-20-2003, 02:31 PM
O'Neal, no thanks......

Its okay to prefer Brand- but that is just Crazy talk. Either Brand or O'Neal + Duncan is Dynasty Material.

Marcus Bryant
06-20-2003, 02:33 PM
Fine. Hill starts and Rose comes off the bench. I wouldn't chastise one for irrelevant points scotty that's a trademark of yours.

T Park Num 9
06-20-2003, 02:37 PM
Damn,

I agree with Iceman.


If i was Oneal and was paired with Artest and stupid Thomas, I wouldve bitched my fricken rican head off too.


Oneal, I think bitched on the wc, because he thought, if he got the ball, more, they wouldve won.

He doesnt like loosing, and wants to play for a winner.


I still do the, go to Indy with the two trophys, and say, hey J Neal, I need some arms to carry the third the fourth the......

MannyIsGod
06-20-2003, 02:46 PM
Oneal should be our #1 target.
We should talk to brand to see if there's any possiblity of getting him this year, I'm pretty sure he'd love to come, but that fucker sterling is screwing it up.

And then Kidd.

If that fails, well ****, i don't know.

Tawnia79
06-20-2003, 04:42 PM
I'd take Brand over O'Neal in a hot second if i were a Spurs fan. He IS proven against the WC and he's a humble and hard working guy. He doesn't need the ball to be effective, but when he gets it he's very capable of scoring. He doesn't go spouting off whenever he's unhappy, and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the Spurs roster.

Having said that, he's not leaving LA this year. Sterling is just waiting to see what offers he gets before he counter offers.

Marcus Bryant
06-20-2003, 05:22 PM
Whoa. She said "hot second."

Tawnia79
06-20-2003, 07:01 PM
Wow, I saw your name after my post and expected a much worse response :wink

T Park Num 9
06-20-2003, 07:04 PM
she said "hot" whoa.......

Marcus Bryant
06-20-2003, 07:29 PM
Miss, I'll give you what you want.

Logan
06-20-2003, 09:13 PM
Jermaine O'Neal

I think it should be our number 1 thing to do!!

IMO!!

:)

genghisrex
06-20-2003, 10:20 PM
I'd take Brand first because I think we could just plug him into our line-up and roll (and he'd come cheaper to boot). There's no question in my mind that Elton would be willing to take a backseat to TD and that he'd play his ass off for us every night doing whatever Pop asked of him. I think Brand would also be more conducive to letting our perimeter players blossom offensively because he wouldn't be "stealing" shots.

I'm more skeptical of O'Neal working with TD (but not nearly enough so to pass on him if he wants to come!). A Duncan-O'Neal frontcourt certainly has more potential than a Duncan-Brand pairing.

Admiral
06-21-2003, 12:21 AM
I would choose Brand over O'Neal, simply because I'm one of the ones who feels that hard work and good character are paramount. Brand fits the Spurs mold on both counts. He may be 6'7", but his block totals and rebounding totals are great. He seems like he would be comfortable sharing the spotlight with Tim. Although Tim would have to play center, he would still feel good going to battle with a blue-collar guy like Brand next to him.

I really like O'Neal's game, and would be thrilled to have him as well. He's a close second to Brand, and like timvp said, it's a tough call because both would help us so much. If we get either of these guys, it will definitely be a successful summer.

Guru of Nothing
06-21-2003, 12:33 AM
JO all the way, except for one thing. Brand would make us that much more boring (but boring in an exciting, winning way). Seriously, as a fan, I am basking in the glow all this "boring team" talk.

How 'bout we sign Kidd and trade him to the Clips for Brand? This trade works on so many levels.

Just a suggestion.

Admiral
06-21-2003, 12:39 AM
Guru, that is an awesome idea. If we have to resort to signing Kidd, we should definitely try that.

genghisrex
06-21-2003, 01:57 AM
You can't sign-and-trade another team's FA. I can't remember off the top of my head when the earliest date the Spurs could trade Kidd is, but it'd almost certainly be after Brand gave in and signed the Clips' Q.O. Once Elton signs that one year offer, he can't be traded.

Marcus Bryant
06-21-2003, 01:58 AM
How is Jermaine O'Neal not a character guy with a strong work ethic?

Admiral
06-21-2003, 02:16 AM
Perhaps Jermaine O'Neal is a character guy with a strong work ethic, Marcus. He had to have worked hard to improve from bench warmer as a 17 year-old rookie in Portland to an All-Star and Team USA member.

I wasn't trying to imply that he isn't a good guy, either. I simply don't know much about his attitude. However, the bad press about him involving Team USA last summer and the Pacers' implosion in the playoffs this year doesn't help things.

I'm sure he would fit in just fine in San Antonio, which is why I stated that it's difficult to choose between he and Brand.

Archie
06-21-2003, 04:46 AM
http://images.launch.yahoo.com/000/003/489/3489558.jpg or http://www.jackson-web.com/front_jermaine.jpg ?


Answer: C) None of the above

MI21
06-21-2003, 04:54 AM
Timvp, how does Elton have big game experience, and Jermaine doesn't? Dont say NCAA.

I can't remember the last time Elton played a Playoff game.

Anyway, I take O'Neal before Brand, pretty clear decision in my opinion.

But, honestly, who wouldn't be happy with either!

What a Dilemma!

:fro

scott
06-21-2003, 01:08 PM
the bad press about him involving Team USA last summer and the Pacers' implosion in the playoffs this year doesn't help things.

I don't recall any bad press about Jermaine from the WC's- did I miss something? I was under the impression that Pop and Jermaine liked each other?

I wouldn't blame the Pacers on Jermaine any more than I would blame the Clippers or Bulls on Elton. Jermaine had a nut case to deal with and Elton was on the Clippers and Bulls for pete's sake.

KoriEllis
06-22-2003, 02:52 AM
I'll be happy equally with either of these guys in a Spurs uniform.

I think Brand's style is a perfect compliment to Tim's game. And I don't worry about his height because he's an excellent rebounder, shot blocker and even has a good work ethic in a bad system -- those things make up for a couple inches.

Jermaine O'Neal has the edge over Brand in my book just because he's unrestricted. I think that he'd be more than happy to have a few less touches in exchange for a handful of rings. He'll still be a big star and get his share of points.

It's funny that people have been bitching about wanting another star to go along with Duncan. And now they complain that O'Neal will want to be too much of a star, The Man. :wtf

Either way, I'm absolutely thrilled that the Spurs are in the position to be making these type of decisions.

:elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant

Yes, it's a great time to be a Spurs fan.

Jimcs50
06-22-2003, 11:34 AM
O'Neal is more David-like in his intimidating presence in the paint, that is what I want for SA, to pickup right where DRob left off. O'Neal in a walk.

picnroll
06-22-2003, 12:01 PM
If you go with talent it's O'Neal. I f Pop goes after O'Neal you know he's sized the situation up, talked to O'Neal, TD's talked to O'Neal and it will likely work. Tim doesn't have an ego that will get in the way and that could likely rub off on JO.

Bigger probelm I see is, with or without the added fire power of JO, the needed emergence of Manu on the offensive end, as well as Jax, that Parker has to get his head into being a distributor and stop concentrating so much on being a scoring PG or everybody is going to be unhappy.

Spurminator
06-22-2003, 09:43 PM
I'd ask Jermaine three times before asking Elton.

Jermaine is more athletic and he's taller. He gets to the line 4 times per game more often and shoots it better when he gets there. And all of this with a Playoff-calibur team.

And all of this talk about Jermaine not taking a back seat to Duncan... what is that based on? Asid3e from the fact that he has no history of being a selfish player, don't you think that he would understand his role before signing? If he wants to be the man, then he won't sign with the Spurs. So that shouldn't be a concern.

Elton Brand is great, but I'm a little skeptical of his numbers. Raef LaFrentz averaged 20 and 10 with the Nuggets, and I'm sure we're all glad we never signed him...

Ghost Writer
06-23-2003, 11:53 AM
Jermaine O'Neal.

While I think Brand's character and consistency are more in line with the Spurs, I prefer O'Neal's raw ability, extra height and defensive prowress in the paint.

Something Spurs fans continue to dismiss when throwing around names like Juwan Howard and PJ Brown and even our own Malik Rose to replace Robinson is that those guys do not block shots.

A major part of the success of the Twin Towers was that if a guard got by Duncan, Robinson was there to clean up and vice versa.

We need that second shot blocker.

:cooldevil

TwoHandJam
06-23-2003, 12:08 PM
If you're basing the decision on being a good shotblocker then Brand is your man. Height alone means nothing.

Brand is currently the better shotblocker (also plays in the west) and has been throughout his career. Check their stats.

Ghost Writer
06-23-2003, 12:52 PM
Brand is a better shotblocker than O'Neal?

Is that a fact?

:cooldevil

scott
06-23-2003, 01:40 PM
Brand was #4 in the League in Blocks per game at 2.55 (39.6 MPG, 2.88 per 48 minutes)

O'Neal was #7 at 2.31 (37.2 MPG, 2.88 per 48 minutes)

Considering Brand played in the west, I'd give him the edge- but its clearly debatable since they both had the same Blocks per 48 average.

Brand gets my nod because of his offensive rebounding (4.6, tops in the league compared to only 2.0 for Jermaine).

Ghost Writer
06-23-2003, 02:07 PM
Wow. It's closer than I thought. Maybe Brand is the better fit, because I think he's more "Spurs-worthy" than O'Neal, but Jermaine would indeed add more balla qualities to the perennially boring Spurs.

Put it this way: either one would be an equally fine addition to the team.

:cooldevil

TwoHandJam
06-23-2003, 05:04 PM
Considering Brand played in the west, I'd give him the edge- but its clearly debatable since they both had the same Blocks per 48 average.

Don't forget that O'Neal became a >2 bpg shotblocker only recently. Brand has there or near there for his entire career, in the west.


Put it this way: either one would be an equally fine addition to the team.

I heartily agree. *salivate*

scott
06-23-2003, 05:22 PM
Don't forget that O'Neal became a >2 bpg shotblocker only recently. Brand has there or near there for his entire career, in the west.

Brand is also new to the >2 bpg club.

He averaged 1.63 and 1.59 in his two years in Chicago, and has put up 2.04 and 2.55 the last two seasons in LA.

Jermaine has put up >2 in all 3 of his years in Indiana. He put up a monster 2.81 his first year, and has put 2.31 the last two seasons. Before that, he wasn't seeing any PT in Portland so it isn't really fair to evaluate his performance there.

Either way, with one of these guys we are in mighty fine shape.

Pooh
06-23-2003, 10:59 PM
Elton is a much better fit than JO. He wouldn't mind playing second fiddle to Duncan and emerging cast in the Spurs.

T Park Num 9
06-23-2003, 11:24 PM
LOL

hes gone from Never coming to SA, to Brand is the better fit.