[Part II] Who is SpursTalk's favorite 2021 draft prospect heading into July?

[Dejounte]

Now that we:

-Know our draft position
-Have combine measurements and athletic test results for half the prospects

Has anyone switched their personal favorite to another player?

I'm removing Kispert from the poll and adding Springer since he gets some love. Would love to add Barnes but it feels like he's extremely unlikely to be there at #12.

Top 5 from Part I:

1) Franz Wagner - 23 votes
2) Moses Moody - 21 votes
3) Alperen Sengun - 18 votes
4) Josh Giddey - 17 votes
5) Kai Jones - 14 votes

Part I thread: https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290488&page=4&p=10537373

[mo7888]

Now that we:

-Know our draft position
-Have combine measurements and athletic test results for half the prospects

Has anyone switched their personal favorite to another player?

I'm removing Kispert from the poll and adding Springer since he gets some love. Would love to add Barnes but it feels like he's extremely unlikely to be there at #12.

Top 5 from Part I:

1) Franz Wagner - 23 votes
2) Moses Moody - 21 votes
3) Alperen Sengun - 18 votes
4) Josh Giddey - 17 votes
5) Kai Jones - 14 votes

Part I thread: https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290488&page=4&p=10537373

I'm still with Wagner, #2 Moody, #3 has changed to Sengun. I'm at the point now where I'm comparing that to trading back with okc for 16 and 18 and wondering if Springer and Murphy would be a better haul than one of my 3 favorites.

I'm also seeing a couple mocks with Kuminga falling to 8 and I'm wondering what it would take to move into that range and get him if he falls?

[Dejounte]

I'm still with Wagner, #2 Moody, #3 has changed to Sengun. I'm at the point now where I'm comparing that to trading back with okc for 16 and 18 and wondering if Springer and Murphy would be a better haul than one of my 3 favorites.

I'm also seeing a couple mocks with Kuminga falling to 8 and I'm wondering what it would take to move into that range and get him if he falls?

My trade back options: Trey Murphy III, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Chris Duarte, Usman Garuba (but only in combination with another 1st round pick), Kessler Edwards

I realize some of these guys could probably be picked up in the 2nd, but still. You never know when a player's stock will rise through the roof.

My 2nd round guys: Jordan Hall, Herbert Jones, Austin Reaves, Isaiah Todd, Sandro Mamukelashvili

IMO, the 2nd round pick this year could be the strongest one in years and that's saying something since Tre Jones was a solid pick.

[GAustex]

Good job putting in the work

[mo7888]

My trade back options: Trey Murphy III, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Chris Duarte, Usman Garuba (but only in combination with another 1st round pick), Kessler Edwards

I realize some of these guys could probably be picked up in the 2nd, but still. You never know when a player's stock will rise through the roof.

My 2nd round guys: Jordan Hall, Herbert Jones, Austin Reaves, Isaiah Todd, Sandro Mamukelashvili

IMO, the 2nd round pick this year could be the strongest one in years and that's saying something since Tre Jones was a solid pick.

I like the 2nd rd too this year.. of your list Herbert Jones I believe will be a solid role player that'll have a good career. I also figure a few guys on my personal Big Board will fall into the 2nd and there'd be value there.

[tmtcsc]

Now that we:

-Know our draft position
-Have combine measurements and athletic test results for half the prospects

Has anyone switched their personal favorite to another player?

I'm removing Kispert from the poll and adding Springer since he gets some love. Would love to add Barnes but it feels like he's extremely unlikely to be there at #12.

Top 5 from Part I:

1) Franz Wagner - 23 votes
2) Moses Moody - 21 votes
3) Alperen Sengun - 18 votes
4) Josh Giddey - 17 votes
5) Kai Jones - 14 votes

Part I thread: https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290488&page=4&p=10537373

Gee Eric, I think I'd put Samanic at the top of my list.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Moody's still my guy but I'd also be happy with Wagner, Bouknight or Jalen Johnson. The latter have red flags but if the Spurs actually draft them I'd be confident they've done their due diligence.

[KobesAchilles]

Imma go Springer. He has the potential to be everything we wish Lonnie could be. High motor, good defender, athletic as hell, good ball handler and a great shooter. He will need time in the G-league next year while we see what the hell we have in Lonnie and can slide in to be his replacement if needed.

[Em-City]

Are we thinking moody, bouknight would have more votes if STers weren't thinking that they are off the board by 12??

[ragas]

I'm going with Kai Jones, J. Johnson, Sengun

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/MavsDraft/status/1408129859751235590?s=20

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1408137050772148230?s=20

Same 3 for me although the order of the last 2 is probably equal.

Kai Jones - Tre Mann - Jaden Springer.

[duncan2150]

Still Alperen

My top 4 : Sengun-Moody-Giddey-Garuba

[ginobilized]

The more I think about it, Moody's mid-range game screams Spurs.

[look_at_g_shred]

There's no reason that any player we draft has to spend time in the G League. We are not contending for the playoffs. The only thing we should be doing right now is developing players.

[Trill Clinton]

Moody or Kai Jones for me.

[exstatic]

There's no reason that any player we draft has to spend time in the G League. We are not contending for the playoffs. The only thing we should be doing right now is developing players.

Have you not paid attention to HOW we develop players? Every youngster on the squad has said how they valued their time in Austin, and how it helped them.

[exstatic]

Sengün, Moody, Bouknight, Kai

Second round wants

Murphy, Grimes, Kessler Edwards

[look_at_g_shred]

Have you not paid attention to HOW we develop players? Every youngster on the squad has said how they valued their time in Austin, and how it helped them.
yeah well me thinks its time for a change. We are in no way a better position than OKC/Orlando, and they are letting the guys play and get NBA experience.

[SpursDynasty85]

Of those players I like Moody best but we have too many guards and wings. Would be ecstatic to see a way Spurs land both Garuba and Moody by trading Lonnie/another asset. Great draft class in the making.

[Dejounte]

Sengun supporters need to be louder. There’s so many of them, and I want to hear their takes. I believe Sengun is talked about the least on here.

[The Truth #6]

Sengun supporters need to be louder. There’s so many of them, and I want to hear their takes. I believe Sengun is talked about the least on here.

I still love Sengun. Love the skills, the passion, the smarts. Reminds me of the Argentinian players from their golden era with Manu. Just great teammates. But in watching the playoffs, I could see him as a big liability defending in space, and that’s so important nowadays. Big men are still prioritized in the draft, but the actual NBA game suggests the opposite: you need lead ball handlers. I’m switching to team Springer, but would love to get him in a trade back scenario, albeit unlikely.

[John B]

I don’t know if Jalen Johnson will still be there. Johnson measured in at just above 6-foot-9 at the combine with a 7-foot wingspan. He averaged 11.2 points, 6.1 rebounds, 1.2 steals and 1.2 blocks per game while shooting 44.4 percent from three for the Blue Devils. Watching this kid block shots after shots and defend the post. I’d be ecstatic if they get him. He’s Ben Simmons with the range. He has a red flag opting out of his freshman year at Duke and senior year in high school, and had tendency to commit turnovers. But to see this kid polish his game, he has the potential to become a superstar, a franchise player, with his size, athleticism and skills. Worst case, he’s a stretch 4 who can play D and push the ball. I think this kid could be a minimal risk with great potential to might be a franchise player.

[Spurtacular]

Gonna wait until I see where the Spurs draft before I bother to study up, tbh.

[John B]

Gonna wait until I see where the Spurs draft before I bother to study up, tbh.
Spurs are drafting 12th and 41st.

[Spurtacular]

Danny Ferry back?
Spurs will be avoiding some of those guys who are too African, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

Spurs are drafting 12th and 41st.

Ah, they had the lottery? I heard about that coming up; must've thought it was further out still.

Sounds like Spurs didn't win.

[John B]

Ah, they had the lottery? I heard about that coming up; must've thought it was further out still.
Yup that was last Tuesday :bobo

[John B]

I mean I like Sengun as a safe pick. But I think his ceiling is not as high as Jalen Johnson’s once he meets his potentials. I can’t help to think that Jalen Johnson could be a Halliburton type that Spurs fans regretted PATFO didn’t pick? I mean I like Devin, but Hallliburton has that star quality, much like Jalen Johnson I think.

[exstatic]

yeah well me thinks its time for a change. We are in no way a better position than OKC/Orlando, and they are letting the guys play and get NBA experience.

Then, it’s a good thing you’re not in charge.

[exstatic]

I mean I like Sengun as a safe pick. But I think his ceiling is not as high as Jalen Johnson’s once he meets his potentials. I can’t help to think that Jalen Johnson could be a Halliburton type that Spurs fans regretted PATFO didn’t pick? I mean I like Devin, but Hallliburton has that star quality, much like Jalen Johnson I think.

Jalens 3 point shooting is based on a short season, 13 games, and limited attempts. 18 3 point attempts, total. A truer indication of jump shot quality is FT%, and his was 63%. His season was short, because he left Duke, just like he left his HS. He has maturity and family red flags. If you select him, you’re signing up for family drama.

[John B]

Jalens 3 point shooting is based on a short season, 13 games, and limited attempts. 18 3 point attempts, total. A truer indication of jump shot quality is FT%, and his was 63%. His season was short, because he left Duke, just like he left his HS. He has maturity and family red flags. If you select him, you’re signing up for family drama.

Wouldn’t you mind pampering him a bit if he’s a star player? I mean Spurs fans want a grounded Timmy or good soldier DRob, but that’s more of an exception. Most alpha players have that “problem” attitude that gives them that edge. They’re willing to take those risks. I know that’s Spurs management to pick the sure bet, but I sometimes want them to take a risk for a great reward. Again I think Jalen has that Ben Simmons skills, rebound, pushing the ball, pass, defend the post, block shots and possibly range.

[Dejounte]

You can pamper and give the world to a diva, but when a diva wants to leave for brighter lights— he will leave, and all that pampering would have been a joke. No amount of pampering can make a diva stay when they want to go.

So instead of dignity and pride, you’re left in worse shape than if you had stood firm in your principles.

[NK123]

- Your comments really worry me.

1- What do we need today? Scoring big, Size, Elite Scoring and Shooting.
2- People here considering another 6'4 that is not an elite shooter nor ball-handler is worrisome.
3- Another big that is not that big nor and offensive threat should be out of question when you already have a non scoring 5.
4- Players that lack athleticism should not be drafted.

5- I would like the Spurs to draft Kai Jones or Tre Mann.
6- Tre Mann is a scorer. I see him as a near 20 pts scorer we don't have.
7- Kai Jones should be the size we've been lacking when Poeltl sits. He is fast enough to play the 4 and to play help defense. He can become an offensive problem playing from the bench alongside DW. He will be able to shoot the corner 3 for the Spurs.

This draft has a lot of talent but the talented players have glaring weaknesses too.
We'll see...

[Dejounte]

You can pamper and give the world to a diva, but when a diva wants to leave for brighter lights— he will leave, and all that pampering would have been a joke. No amount of pampering can make a diva stay when they want to go.

So instead of dignity and pride, you’re left in worse shape than if you had stood firm in your principles.

All this to say that if Jalen is drafted by the Spurs, I’ll assume that he passed the Spurs’ comprehensive background check. The Spurs are excellent in finding guys who buy in (and letting go quickly those who don’t), with Nephew being an outlier. If he is passed by the Spurs, I won’t cry a river. It must be really bad on the character side with him because I’ll admit that he’s talented (except on defense, he sucks). If he makes it past the Spurs, I’ll expect we’ll hear stories similar to what happened with Marvin Bagley and all those other losers.

[John B]

You can pamper and give the world to a diva, but when a diva wants to leave for brighter lights— he will leave, and all that pampering would have been a joke. No amount of pampering can make a diva stay when they want to go.

So instead of dignity and pride, you’re left in worse shape than if you had stood firm in your principles.

Well you don’t know if Jalen is a diva. The story is he wanted to further rest his foot injury and prepare for the NBA. The kid debuted 19 pts and 19 rebounds as a freshman, and averaged almost 2 blocks and 2 steals a game, has guard skills can defend the bigs, and can play point forward. Some comparing him to Ben Simmons, Stephen Jackson, Aaron Gordon.
Heck with his size and athleticism, he could be a Giannis.

[Dejounte]

Well you don’t know if Jalen is a diva. The story is he wanted to further rest his foot injury and prepare for the NBA. The kid debuted 19 pts and 19 rebounds as a freshman, and averaged almost 2 blocks and 2 steals a game, has guard skills can defend the bigs, and can play point forward. Some comparing him to Ben Simmons, Stephen Jackson, Aaron Gordon.
Heck with his size and athleticism, he could be a Giannis.

So you actually haven’t heard the other stories pre-Duke.

[rankingtear]

Well you don’t know if Jalen is a diva. The story is he wanted to further rest his foot injury and prepare for the NBA. The kid debuted 19 pts and 19 rebounds as a freshman, and averaged almost 2 blocks and 2 steals a game, has guard skills can defend the bigs, and can play point forward. Some comparing him to Ben Simmons, Stephen Jackson, Aaron Gordon.
Heck with his size and athleticism, he could be a Giannis.

He is 6-7 210. Giannis and Ben are 6-11 240.

[rjv]

taking notes on springer now and will check some video later but he'll only be 18 when drafted which makes him a year younger than cunningham. as noted in some scouting reports that i've read, being so young and still leading his vols team with 19.3 ppg and 4.5 apg is pretty impressive, but he's not without his weaknesses such as an average wing span, slow release and average ball handling skills. he'd have to play at the 2 spot.

[John B]

All this to say that if Jalen is drafted by the Spurs, I’ll assume that he passed the Spurs’ comprehensive background check. The Spurs are excellent in finding guys who buy in (and letting go quickly those who don’t), with Nephew being an outlier. If he is passed by the Spurs, I won’t cry a river. It must be really bad on the character side with him because I’ll admit that he’s talented (except on defense, he sucks). If he makes it past the Spurs, I’ll expect we’ll hear stories similar to what happened with Marvin Bagley and all those other losers.

The kid has 1.2 blocks and 1.2 steals per game. He’s scouting reports shows his strength as defensive versatility.

[Dejounte]

The kid has 1.2 blocks and 1.2 steals per game. He’s scouting reports shows his strength as defensive versatility.

I don’t have the time to go over this again and again :lmao

Feel free to believe that.

[rjv]

i haven't selected yet but, as of now, if the spurs stayed at 12, i'm leaning towards giddey or sengun.

[John B]

He is 6-7 210. Giannis and Ben are 6-11 240.
He measured in at the combine at 6-foot-9 with a 7 foot wingspan. The comparison to Ben Simmons is in his guard skills and availability to defend post at his size. If not for the red flag of him opting out of his freshman at Duke and senior year in high school, this kid is top 10 or better. I’m just saying that the red flag pulled a caliber player like him down where Spurs have a chance to get him at 12th pick. Small risk because he could always be a great defender and stretch 4, but could be huge a ceiling like Simmons (with range).

[John B]

I don’t have the time to go over this again and again :lmao

Feel free to believe that.

Oh excuse me for wasting your time. 1.2 blocks and 1.2 steals bad defender?

[Dejounte]

Oh excuse me for wasting your time. 1.2 blocks and 1.2 steals bad defender?


you haven’t bro. If I was to explain why he was a bad defender, it would be because I have done it multiple times already in other threads. But I’m not going to do that. Not right now, anyway.

[exstatic]

Wouldn’t you mind pampering him a bit if he’s a star player? I mean Spurs fans want a grounded Timmy or good soldier DRob, but that’s more of an exception. Most alpha players have that “problem” attitude that gives them that edge. They’re willing to take those risks. I know that’s Spurs management to pick the sure bet, but I sometimes want them to take a risk for a great reward. Again I think Jalen has that Ben Simmons skills, rebound, pushing the ball, pass, defend the post, block shots and possibly range.
The thing is, he’s NOT a star. You compared him to Simmons. He’s not Simmons. He doesn’t have even 40% of his court vision or creativity. 2.2 assists Last year.

You’ve got to be a star before you can be expected to be treated like one. The fact that he expects that caps what improvements he can show. If he thinks he’s a star, why does he need to work on his game? Is he going to accept coaching? Probably not, based on his last two stops.

[John B]

The thing is, he’s NOT a star. You compared him to Simmons. He’s not Simmons. He doesn’t have even 40% of his court vision or creativity. 2.2 assists Last year.

You’ve got to be a star before you can be expected to be treated like one. The fact that he expects that caps what improvements he can show. If he thinks he’s a star, why does he need to work on his game? Is he going to accept coaching? Probably not, based on his last two stops.

QUOTE=Dejounte;10537976]you haven’t bro. If I was to explain why he was a bad defender, it would be because I have done it multiple times already in other threads. But I’m not going to do that. Not right now, anyway.[/QUOTE]

You guys know more. And watching the Spurs throughout the years, I would suspect they'd go for a Sengun or a Wagner. I just wish for once the Spurs would take a big swing with the house money. :bobo

[GreekSpursfan]

Sengun, he seems to have the IQ but very limited as an athlete, he seems tailor made for Europe, not big enough to be so slow and unathletic for the NBA, pass. Kai Jones 50/50.
Bouknight pass. Moody pass.
I'm between Wagner and Jalen Jahnson.

[exstatic]

QUOTE=Dejounte;10537976]you haven’t bro. If I was to explain why he was a bad defender, it would be because I have done it multiple times already in other threads. But I’m not going to do that. Not right now, anyway.


You guys know more. And watching the Spurs throughout the years, I would suspect they'd go for a Sengun or a Wagner. I just wish for once the Spurs would take a big swing with the house money. :bobo
House money is a bad analogy. Playing with house money implies that you’re ahead of the game, and not risking anything. Not the case this year at all.

[pad300]

Sengun supporters need to be louder. There’s so many of them, and I want to hear their takes. I believe Sengun is talked about the least on here.

It's not hard; he's the single best player available (ie. outside the big 5)... and he's one of the youngest players in the draft, so he's got as much room to grow as anyone. If that talent is available at 12, you take it, and thank at least 7 other teams for being idiots.

[Thomas82]

It's still Kai Jones for me.

[rankingtear]

Sengun might as well be an all star but you would still feel bad when he is on your team in the playoffs.

[poopbox]

Unless they are going to play center or power forward I do not know how they are even going to get on the court in the next 2 years tbh. Any guard or small forward we draft is going to have to leap frog DJ, White, Keldon, Tre, Vassell, Lonnie, or wait for one of them to get traded or wash out...

[exstatic]

Sengün was the MVP of the Turkish league at 18. He’s a fuck of a lot closer to being Jokic than Jalen Johnson is to being Ben Simmons, or Garuba is to being Capela.

[The Truth #6]

Sengün was the MVP of the Turkish league at 18. He’s a fuck of a lot closer to being Jokic than Jalen Johnson is to being Ben Simmons, or Garuba is to being Capela.

Interesting. You recognize Sengun’s accomplishments, yet seem to think little of Garuba’s experience with Real Madrid. I like Sengun better, but Garuba has improved his last year, and did well in the playoffs: https://youtu.be/2VTv6YPoMXc

That’s a lot more impressive than Renfro playing for the University of San Francisco.

[pad300]

Sengün was the MVP of the Turkish league at 18. He’s a fuck of a lot closer to being Jokic than Jalen Johnson is to being Ben Simmons, or Garuba is to being Capela.

As a qualifier to this, he's not Jokic (and I'm a Sengun guy). What I can see is a Kevin Love with more hustle and better D.

[TD 21]

Sengun might as well be an all star but you would still feel bad when he is on your team in the playoffs.

Yeah, the obvious comp is Sabonis, but as you alluded to, how valuable is an undersized center, who can't protect the rim, defend in space or stretch the floor (that may come in time; we'll see), in the playoffs?

On the other hand, this team is starving for offensive focal points and given their commitment to a back court lacking in that area and aversion to unforced movement, it's probably going to have to come from the front court, which is more difficult to find.



Unless they are going to play center or power forward I do not know how they are even going to get on the court in the next 2 years tbh. Any guard or small forward we draft is going to have to leap frog DJ, White, Keldon, Tre, Vassell, Lonnie, or wait for one of them to get traded or wash out...

Probably true, but insane considering how relatively untalented a perimeter corps that is.

[BacktoBasics]

yeah well me thinks its time for a change. We are in no way a better position than OKC/Orlando, and they are letting the guys play and get NBA experience.
Any minutes and productive minutes are two different things. Positive progress matters. I’m sure there are 7th grade kids that can keep up with high schoolers but that 8th grade year matters as far as development goes.

I have no problem with a rookie picking up super productive minutes vs. having circles run around him because he’s not quite there.

Lonnie couldn’t hang defensively for what? Two years. At least this season he was able to show how productive he could be offensively because he wasn’t shell shocked on the other end.

[Dejounte]

Giddey losing fans!

The Ben Simmons effect!

[R. DeMurre]

taking notes on springer now and will check some video later but he'll only be 18 when drafted which makes him a year younger than cunningham. as noted in some scouting reports that i've read, being so young and still leading his vols team with 19.3 ppg and 4.5 apg is pretty impressive, but he's not without his weaknesses such as an average wing span, slow release and average ball handling skills. he'd have to play at the 2 spot.

I like Springer too, but just a note: 19.3/4.5 are his adjusted per 40 numbers, not his per game numbers.

[rjv]

I Springer too, but just a note: 19.3/4.5 are his adjusted per 40 numbers, not his per game numbers.

yes-thanks for the clarification.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Kai Jones, Kai jones, Kai jones. He will be a super star in a few years. We will be lucky if he is still available at 12.

[ginobilized]

Besides Bouknight and Keon Johnson, I feel there is a legitimate argument for every other player on this list.
There will probably be plenty of movement up and down before draft day.
I'd be thrilled with any of Moody, Wagner, Sengun, Springer, Jones, or Jalen Johnson. Surely, one or more will still be on the board at 12.
Garuba and Giddey don't feel like they are quite as ready. If the Spurs chose one of them, it tells me they checked all the boxes of work ethic, family and potential.

[Mr. Body]

Giddey losing fans!

The Ben Simmons effect!

Giddey is the guy who intrigues me most at our draft position. I don't think his shooting difficulties are anywhere similar to Simmons anyway.

[Dejounte]

Giddey is the guy who intrigues me most at our draft position. I don't think his shooting difficulties are anywhere similar to Simmons anyway.

I don’t think so either, but I could see how one could think so.

[rjv]

read this the other day from ESPN Australia:

Josh Giddey’s shot looks much more fluid (improved strength has helped) and he’s getting it up quicker. This is impressive stuff for a 6’9-220 PG who’s still 18. He’s been doing guard work with Darryl McDonald during his pre-draft, and shooting-specific workouts with Andrew Gaze. pic.twitter.com/n2tb5wHQ59 (https://t.co/n2tb5wHQ59)
— Olgun Uluc (@OlgunUluc) June 17, 2021 (https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1405637627156434944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

[itzsoweezee]

The Spurs should shoot for a potential star (no more role players) — J Johnson fits the mold

[Mr. Body]

Sengun might as well be an all star but you would still feel bad when he is on your team in the playoffs.

I wouldn't feel bad having Sengun on my team in the playoffs because it would mean my team was in the playoffs.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs should shoot for a potential star (no more role players) — J Johnson fits the mold

God, I hope other lottery GMs think the way you do and take him early, pushing an actual player further down.

[exstatic]

Interesting. You recognize Sengun’s accomplishments, yet seem to think little of Garuba’s experience with Real Madrid. I like Sengun better, but Garuba has improved his last year, and did well in the playoffs: https://youtu.be/2VTv6YPoMXc

That’s a lot more impressive than Renfro playing for the University of San Francisco.

Was Garuba the Spanish league MVP?

[Mr. Body]

read this the other day from ESPN Australia:

Josh Giddey’s shot looks much more fluid (improved strength has helped) and he’s getting it up quicker. This is impressive stuff for a 6’9-220 PG who’s still 18. He’s been doing guard work with Darryl McDonald during his pre-draft, and shooting-specific workouts with Andrew Gaze. pic.twitter.com/n2tb5wHQ59 (https://t.co/n2tb5wHQ59)
— Olgun Uluc (@OlgunUluc) June 17, 2021 (https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1405637627156434944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

I'm often wrong, but Giddey is really zeroing the meter for me at this point. He already has an elite skill, rare to find at his draft position (passing/vision), plus has the work ethic and smarts to either fix or cover his deficiencies. I understand he has a loose handle, his shot isn't great, and his defense will never be exceptional, but he supplies so many other things this team needs -- namely playmaking. His numbers track pretty closely to LaMello Ball's during his year in Australia. Other than being less productive point-wise (read: taking fewer shots), their percentages were pretty similar.

Plus, he played in some fucktown nowhere in Australia, meaning he'd be perfectly fine playing in SA.

[rjv]

I'm often wrong, but Giddey is really zeroing the meter for me at this point. He already has an elite skill, rare to find at his draft position (passing/vision), plus has the work ethic and smarts to either fix or cover his deficiencies. I understand he has a loose handle, his shot isn't great, and his defense will never be exceptional, but he supplies so many other things this team needs -- namely playmaking. His numbers track pretty closely to LaMello Ball's during his year in Australia. Other than being less productive point-wise (read: taking fewer shots), their percentages were pretty similar.

Plus, he played in some fucktown nowhere in Australia, meaning he'd be perfectly fine playing in SA.

he's definitely an intriguing prospect and some have charlotte taking him right before SA because of the idea of pairing him with LaMello. spot on with the would fit right into SA analogy.

[Mr. Body]

he's definitely an intriguing prospect and some have charlotte taking him right before SA because of the idea of pairing him with LaMello. spot on with the would fit right into SA analogy.

Why would they draft a pseudo-Mello Ball when they already have Mello Ball? Plus they have Hayward coming back at a position where Giddey will likely play. There's too much overlap everywhere.

In any case, he's a peculiar player and I think this draft will see many GMs fall in love with athleticism and take big swings on players who need too much help to get ready.

[rjv]

Why would they draft a pseudo-Mello Ball when they already have Mello Ball? Plus they have Hayward coming back at a position where Giddey will likely play. There's too much overlap everywhere.

In any case, he's a peculiar player and I think this draft will see many GMs fall in love with athleticism and take big swings on players who need too much help to get ready.

it is charlotte so who knows what the hell they'll do. last year's selection was the best one they've made in a while (although monk and washington were pretty solid). and that's only because GS and Minny made that choice easier for them.

[The Truth #6]

Was Garuba the Spanish league MVP?

Different award. https://www.realmadrid.com/en/news/2021/05/14/garuba-named-euroleagues-best-young-player

Spanish MVP was a 32 year old player named Giorgi Shermadini. Not sure why you’re referencing him. Obviously a worst NBA prospect. Were you thinking that because Garuba didn’t win MVP of a superior league that somehow that makes him a bad player? Weird take. But it seems like you’re trying to win an argument when I’m trying to have a discussion.

[exstatic]

Different award. https://www.realmadrid.com/en/news/2021/05/14/garuba-named-euroleagues-best-young-player

Spanish MVP was a 32 year old player named Giorgi Shermadini. Not sure why you’re referencing him. Obviously a worst NBA prospect. Were you thinking that because Garuba didn’t win MVP of a superior league that somehow that makes him a bad player? Weird take. But it seems like you’re trying to win an argument when I’m trying to have a discussion.

Don’t be so fucking obtuse. It just makes Sengün just that much better of a prospect. He was the best player in probably the 3rd best league in Europe at 18, and Garuba put up 4/4 in 16 minutes. One is a basketball player, the other an athlete.

[The Truth #6]

Don’t be so fucking obtuse. It just makes Sengün just that much better of a prospect. He was the best player in probably the 3rd best league in Europe at 18, and Garuba put up 4/4 in 16 minutes. One is a basketball player, the other an athlete.

No, I was taking your argument at face value, because the other option is to think you believe your own hyperbole. Not sure which is worse. The funny thing is we both think Sengun is the better player but you feel the need to diminish Garuba to try and make your point, which to be honest isn’t obvious. You seem more committed to defaulting to your bad cop routine rather than having a normal discussion.

[R. DeMurre]

I was looking at some more videos and game logs for Alperen Sengun, and I noticed something interesting: as the season went on in Turkey, he adjusted to more defensive attention by significantly increasing his assist numbers. In the first 10 games of the season, he had 16 assists. In the last 10 games of his season, he had 36 assists. His BBIQ is really impressive.

[poopbox]

Yeah, the obvious comp is Sabonis, but as you alluded to, how valuable is an undersized center, who can't protect the rim, defend in space or stretch the floor (that may come in time; we'll see), in the playoffs?

On the other hand, this team is starving for offensive focal points and given their commitment to a back court lacking in that area and aversion to unforced movement, it's probably going to have to come from the front court, which is more difficult to find.


Well they are definitely more talented than a college kid who has played exactly 0 seconds of nba level basketball

Probably true, but insane considering how relatively untalented a perimeter corps that is.

[GreekSpursfan]

Kai Jones has zero highlights passing the ball, not good. Lastly let me repeat myself about Sengun because i have been watching the Turkish league a lot. Great bball IQ, great moves but very slow moves, unathletic, he will not be a good NBA defender, he can be easily exploited. We have to project what he's gonna look like as an NBA player not as Turkish league player. He will make an awesome career in Europe but he's not gonna be much in the NBA. He's nowhere near Jokic and even Jokic can easily be exploited on the defensive end, we've seen it time and time again.
Again, Wagner, Jalen Jonhson, that's it for me.

[BackHome]

I am really thinking that the 12th pick is going to end up being a decent bench player I hope I am wrong but for some reason this draft I just don’t feel good about what will be available at pick 12. I am actually a lot more excited about the second round prospects- at this point I would not mind trading back with the Knicks

[Dingle Barry]

Kai Jones has by far the highest ceiling of these guys.

[rankingtear]

1410620885199773698

To the other Keon Johnson fan.

[rascal]

Of those players I like Moody best but we have too many guards and wings. Would be ecstatic to see a way Spurs land both Garuba and Moody by trading Lonnie/another asset. Great draft class in the making.

Trade a veteran and draft Moody if he is there.

[rascal]

You need wings that can knock down the three and play defense, Moody can do both.

[The Truth #6]

I have a weird feeling that with DDR gone next year and no longer distributing the ball, and with better shooters waiting to receive the ball, DJM’s lack of playmaking and penetration is going to get ugly, and possibly hurt his trade value. Anyway, still excited about the draft but the team is going to be different next year. Hopefully, I’m wrong.

[rascal]

Sengun would be a horrible pick. Poor shooter. Not quick enough for the NBA to get inside for easy dunks like he gets in the Turkish league. Game won't translate to the NBA, will struggle at the NBA level.

[exstatic]

Sengun would be a horrible pick. Poor shooter. Not quick enough for the NBA to get inside for easy dunks like he gets in the Turkish league. Game won't translate to the NBA, will struggle at the NBA level.

Bookmarked. This won’t age well…

[Thomas82]

I'm still leaning towards Kai Jones.

[rascal]

Sengün was the MVP of the Turkish league at 18. He’s a fuck of a lot closer to being Jokic than Jalen Johnson is to being Ben Simmons, or Garuba is to being Capela.

The Turkish league sucks. I've watched his highlights unimpressed. He's not playing against the black players, more athletic players he'll see in the nba.

[rascal]

I like Moses Moody more than Sengun.

[PrimeMinister]

Sengun has a really good nose for the ball and plays with some attitude

sneaky strong and can finish in traffic. Definitely concerns if he has to step out to the perimeter defensively, which complicates his fit as a 4 offensively and may have to be a 5 out of necessity. I’m growing more confident about his overall presence at the rim on both ends. Seems to be a hard worker by most accounts, has a decent stroke mechanically… I like him. Big time.

Jones is boom or bust without a doubt. Could be a unicorn type if his skills develop, could be another unfinished raw tools project that doesn’t really pan out. Kid apparently busts his ass and works like he wants to be great. Humble attitude and a good learner but doesn’t guarantee he puts it together. FWIW a lot of the “insider” dweebs like Charlotte to take him at 11 but could see him fall into the 20s on draft day if the ?s are too much with FOs.

Wagner I just have a gut feeling is going to Sacramento and I’m less confident recently about his ability to create off the dribble in the nba. Doesn’t have a lot in his bag and struggles with his off hand mightily. But he’s super smart and is another hard worker.

Giddey not as high on his ceiling as of late. His tools leave a bit to be desired. I think his shot will come around but he ends up closer to a Kyle Anderson or joe ingles type than he does a game changing over sized pg. which is not a bad career and player if he pans out.

I’ll be happy with just about any of the realistic BPA - but combination of fit, readiness, potential, Im going Sengun in a tough but confident selection.

[Kurik]

I’m all in on Sengun, assuming Wagner is drafted higher.

[mo7888]

Sengun has a really good nose for the ball and plays with some attitude

sneaky strong and can finish in traffic. Definitely concerns if he has to step out to the perimeter defensively, which complicates his fit as a 4 offensively and may have to be a 5 out of necessity. I’m growing more confident about his overall presence at the rim on both ends. Seems to be a hard worker by most accounts, has a decent stroke mechanically… I like him. Big time.

Jones is boom or bust without a doubt. Could be a unicorn type if his skills develop, could be another unfinished raw tools project that doesn’t really pan out. Kid apparently busts his ass and works like he wants to be great. Humble attitude and a good learner but doesn’t guarantee he puts it together. FWIW a lot of the “insider” dweebs like Charlotte to take him at 11 but could see him fall into the 20s on draft day if the ?s are too much with FOs.

Wagner I just have a gut feeling is going to Sacramento and I’m less confident recently about his ability to create off the dribble in the nba. Doesn’t have a lot in his bag and struggles with his off hand mightily. But he’s super smart and is another hard worker.

Giddey not as high on his ceiling as of late. His tools leave a bit to be desired. I think his shot will come around but he ends up closer to a Kyle Anderson or joe ingles type than he does a game changing over sized pg. which is not a bad career and player if he pans out.

I’ll be happy with just about any of the realistic BPA - but combination of fit, readiness, potential, Im going Sengun in a tough but confident selection.

I share similar sentiments on Sengun. I also think he would be an interesting fit playing alongside Kai or possibly Isaiah Jackson..

[SAGirl]

I was looking at some more videos and game logs for Alperen Sengun, and I noticed something interesting: as the season went on in Turkey, he adjusted to more defensive attention by significantly increasing his assist numbers. In the first 10 games of the season, he had 16 assists. In the last 10 games of his season, he had 36 assists. His BBIQ is really impressive.
Ended up voting Sengun. I think he’s the right kind of gamble. Some gambles are on physical tools in raw players. Sengun may need better physical conditioning and strength, plus coaching for the nba game, but he already knows how to play, (has an offensive game) and learns quickly (high BBIQ). I really like him. May end up being better than more athletic guys who don’t have an offensive game. I wonder if due to the Jokic similarity some team will gamble on him b4 12, but I’d be really excited if he’s the pick…

(though in general there are several good options in that range)

[itzsoweezee]

I haven’t watched any of these foreign players. Can someone please explain why Segun is better than Okafor? Is it mostly based on a hope that he’ll develop an outside shot?

[paperboy77]

I really don't follow hoops beyond the NBA so my opinion is based on youtube. I think we're gonna get someone good regardless. Super excited this year.

That Bouknight kid looks to me like he's gonna be a steal somewhere. Seems like an equal replacement for Lonnie except confident. Kai Jones tho might be exactly what we need.

[BackHome]

The only player I don't want is Giddey cause he is going to get destroyed on the defensive side - I am OK with Sengun, Bouknight , and Moody. Those I think are the 3 players that might be available when we draft but for the record I be happy with who ever they draft as this year I don't have a dog in the fight of which player I want.

For me not really excited for some reason about this draft I can say that looking at next draft "OH YEAH"...:hungry:

[Ignazzz]

We have our nba GM game in polish badketball forum. Sengun went with 7th pick. I am on clock with #8.
Wagner Moody Kai or Johnson?

[alfahdlan]

Final Pitch: Lottery is about BPA, upside, star potential. Let team needs be addressed in free agency. If he is there @ 12 wouldn’t it be comforting to have a guy who would give you buckets when defense tighten up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufyOVQdLsco

[John B]

Final Pitch: Lottery is about BPA, upside, star potential. Let team needs be addressed in free agency. If he is there @ 12 wouldn’t it be comforting to have a guy who would give you buckets when defense tighten up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufyOVQdLsco
I like that he seems to be able to score at will, but his assist/TO ratio is horrendous. I see Pop just yanking him out so fast after a TO and never see him again. He needs to tighten those dribbles. He’s an easy scorer but doesn’t really facilitate.

[SAGirl]

The only player I don't want is Giddey cause he is going to get destroyed on the defensive side - I am OK with Sengun, Bouknight , and Moody. Those I think are the 3 players that might be available when we draft but for the record I be happy with who ever they draft as this year I don't have a dog in the fight of which player I want.

For me not really excited for some reason about this draft I can say that looking at next draft "OH YEAH"...:hungry:
I’ve seen comparisons of Giddey with Kyle Anderson and I don’t see it. What allowed Anderson to stick in the league even with a bad shoulder affecting his shooting was his go go gadget arms at 7’3” and good hands to go with them, plus good understanding of team defense, he makes a lot of plays on the ball generating steals blocks and deflections that will never be possible for Giddey. I dare say without those arms Anderson wouldn’t be an nba player bc he’s slow and his shot took a long time coming. The arms also help him get blocks despite not having hops because he has elite standing reach for a perimeter player. I really like Giddey’s passing and maybe he will pull himself into a different kind of player but he won’t be Anderson.

Then of course if the answers that he isn’t comparable to Anderson then what is he. Maybe joe ingles if he can ever shoot as well as ingles can. The league is definitely kinder to slower wings than it used to but they need to have an elite skill. I’d say for Anderson that was elite team defense whereas for ingles it was shooting with a well rounded game. I don know if Giddey will be able to shoot or defend like either of these slow wings but maybe he can. He’s young, but it’s not clear enough…. To me the T-Rex arms did him in more than the lack of elite athleticism. I think am NBA player needs to have something to impact the game on defenses. Giddey doesn’t seem to have it. Maybe I am wrong of course, I have only watched a little film.

[Mr. Body]

We have our nba GM game in polish badketball forum. Sengun went with 7th pick. I am on clock with #8.
Wagner Moody Kai or Johnson?

Wagner or Moody. Kai or Johnson are no-gos for me.

[Mr. Body]

Final Pitch: Lottery is about BPA, upside, star potential. Let team needs be addressed in free agency. If he is there @ 12 wouldn’t it be comforting to have a guy who would give you buckets when defense tighten up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufyOVQdLsco

I don't think he's a cultural fit. Can't see him playing w/in Pop's system, or the system a replacement coach puts in, plus Bouknight seems the type who wants to live in a big city. Don't see him sticking.

[The Truth #6]

I don't think he's a cultural fit. Can't see him playing w/in Pop's system, or the system a replacement coach puts in, plus Bouknight seems the type who wants to live in a big city. Don't see him sticking.

Agreed. The talent seems to be there, though maybe getting overhyped a bit now, but we have to find a player that will stick it out in San Antonio and all that entails. I'm dubious of Bouknight and Jalen Johnson as well, though happy to be proven wrong.

[PrimeMinister]

We have our nba GM game in polish badketball forum. Sengun went with 7th pick. I am on clock with #8.
Wagner Moody Kai or Johnson?

Keon Johnson at 8 would be a solid pick.

jalen would be a disaster

[John B]

Keon Johnson at 8 would be a solid pick.

jalen would be a disaster


https://www.facebook.com/big.homie.Quinton/videos/379873893508648/?d=n

[PrimeMinister]

https://www.facebook.com/big.homie.Quinton/videos/379873893508648/?d=n

I want Jalen to be a thing… I’ve been pretty well on the side of give him a chance.

Im not going to pretend to know him or what “character issues” he might have- but I can see Bagley type outcomes just like I can see grant Hill flashes in his workouts.

keon Johnson being my flavor of the week prospect right now is probably where my thought came from more than anything

[Russ]

I don't think he's a cultural fit. Can't see him playing w/in Pop's system, or the system a replacement coach puts in, plus Bouknight seems the type who wants to live in a big city. Don't see him sticking.

"Don't see him sticking around." Yep.

That's the problem with Bouknight and I'm sure the Spurs have come to a decision, one way or the other, on that issue.

The Spurs could mold him into an elite player then he takes all their work and deposits it in NYC or LA.

If he's there at 12 (doubtful) he'll likely be the best player on the board. I'll trust the Spurs one way or the other . . .

[Mr. Body]

I want Jalen to be a thing… I’ve been pretty well on the side of give him a chance.

Im not going to pretend to know him or what “character issues” he might have- but I can see Bagley type outcomes just like I can see grant Hill flashes in his workouts.

keon Johnson being my flavor of the week prospect right now is probably where my thought came from more than anything

Fuck no on Jalen Johnson.

Keon Johnson's motor and defense is interesting though.

[John B]

I want Jalen to be a thing… I’ve been pretty well on the side of give him a chance.

Im not going to pretend to know him or what “character issues” he might have- but I can see Bagley type outcomes just like I can see grant Hill flashes in his workouts.

keon Johnson being my flavor of the week prospect right now is probably where my thought came from more than anything
Jalen worked out with the GS 5 days ago and yesterday with Sacramento. He could be gone by 12th. I’m very high on his star potential, but yes I agree that he could be a primadona. Otherwise, this kid could be top 5. 6’9 man-size body at 19 and no short on athleticism, he is a position in need.

[Mr. Body]

Jalen worked out with the GS 5 days ago and yesterday with Sacramento. He could be gone by 12th. I’m very high on his star potential, but yes I agree that he could be a primadona. Otherwise, this kid could be top 5. 6’9 man-size body at 19 and no short on athleticism, he is a position in need.

I have absolutely no doubt Jalen Johnson is going to be a major headache for whatever team drafts him. Not only has he quit on teams in the past, including the preeminent college program in the country, he's actually said in draft interviews that he plans on doing what's best for himself and his family. Holy shit red flags.

He's not even that good. He's lazy, does bizarre shit on the court like fling passes out of bounds, and is often disinterested in basic things like defense.

[R. DeMurre]

I think the assessment of a guy like Jalen Johnson really is one of those things that is nearly impossible from a regular fan's perspective, where almost all of the info is based on rumors and secondhand accounts. The FO of the Spurs will have the ability (unlike me) to call Coach K and chat, to talk directly to people who've spent actual time on court and in practice with JJ, etc... I definitely get a strange vibe from him, but also have to admit that his highlight reel in limited time is intriguing. Some of his passing is pretty brilliant, and of the best-pass-without-unnecessary-flash variety that shows the potential for mature decision making on the court. Of course, a career like OJ Mayo's still looms as a pretty big warning sign... so much talent, so much negative attitude.

[JuneJive]

Wagner / Moody / Sengun

Hopefully, one of them will be available.

[alfahdlan]

I like that he seems to be able to score at will, but his assist/TO ratio is horrendous. I see Pop just yanking him out so fast after a TO and never see him again. He needs to tighten those dribbles. He’s an easy scorer but doesn’t really facilitate.

all he does in the court has the go ahead clearance from the coach ang according to their game plan. He respect his coach very much.

[John B]

all he does in the court has the go ahead clearance from the coach ang according to their game plan. He respect his coach very much.

But he averages 3 TO getting picked when he penetrates, much like DJ with his handles. I mean I think he’s an automatic scorer like Fox or SGA just that assist/TO ratio is concerning

[alfahdlan]

That’s the next level he has to go thru. That’s where coaching comes. Interview has it that he’ll concentrate on playmaking next.

[alfahdlan]

I don't think he's a cultural fit. Can't see him playing w/in Pop's system, or the system a replacement coach puts in, plus Bouknight seems the type who wants to live in a big city. Don't see him sticking.

he value relationship. If its good, he’ll stick around.

https://twitter.com/jam3s210/status/1415024259022397444?s=21

[alfahdlan]

Player Comparison: James Bouknight vs Anthony Edwards

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=james-bouknight--anthony-edwards

stats don’t lie.

[rascal]

I don't think he's a cultural fit. Can't see him playing w/in Pop's system, or the system a replacement coach puts in, plus Bouknight seems the type who wants to live in a big city. Don't see him sticking.

Do you know him personally making the assumptions("seems the type") he won't want to stay in San Antonio?

[The Truth #6]

Do you know him personally making the assumptions("seems the type") he won't want to stay in San Antonio?


I’d say it’s a question for anyone we invest in with a high pick. Does his poor judgement/legal issue mean he’d pull a nephew? Not necessarily. Everyone is different. But bailing on small market teams is very common with high level talent (which means, typically, ball dominant scorers like him.) Anyway, it’s the state of the league. Drafting good character is more important than ever for the Spurs.

[alfahdlan]

Does an interview gives away the character of a person? Do we consult psychologist or astrologer to know the psyche of a person. Does one petty crime defines who you are your whole life. He has skill coz obviously he works more than the other person does. Let’s start at that. Now, whether he leaves eventually depends how competing values will play out.
https://twitter.com/unltd_sports/status/1398625177768955906?s=21

[Mr. Body]

Does an interview gives away the character of a person? Do we consult psychologist or astrologer to know the psyche of a person. Does one petty crime defines who you are your whole life. He has skill coz obviously he works more than the other person does. Let’s start at that. Now, whether he leaves eventually depends how competing values will play out.
https://twitter.com/unltd_sports/status/1398625177768955906?s=21

You don't waste lottery picks and millions of dollars on bad bets. This ain't a video game with save points.

[PhantomDashCam]

Does an interview gives away the character of a person? Do we consult psychologist or astrologer to know the psyche of a person. Does one petty crime defines who you are your whole life. He has skill coz obviously he works more than the other person does. Let’s start at that. Now, whether he leaves eventually depends how competing values will play out.


Don’t know whether you’ve seen this yet? Know you are a fan so probably get a kick out of some of it. Slickly produced.


https://youtu.be/BSWYTOEfK8s

[alfahdlan]

You don't waste lottery picks and millions of dollars on bad bets. This ain't a video game with save points.

i will come back at this post whether the team that drafted Bouk placed a bad bets or not. And say “You are right” if they did.

[Mr. Body]

i will come back at this post whether the team that drafted Bouk placed a bad bets or not. And say “You are right” if they did.

I actually thought you were talking about Jalen Johnson. Bouknight? I don't see him fitting into the team culture/philosophy. He's more of a freelancer on offense. He might do pretty well somewhere else but don't see him fitting in San Antonio. I think people like you don't really understand the Spurs and think we're the 76ers or Washington or something.

[alfahdlan]

Nope. Since the 1st champ trophy Spurs my team. And my mother lives in the city. The beautiful game and all that. But your words are clear “Don’t waste lottery picks and millions of dollars on bad bets.” People like me? People who wants our team to thrive. We may have different opinions re our fave player to be drafted, we just want to see our team improves. May be you want a safe bet then its your opinion. I have no problem with that.

[John B]

Nope. Since the 1st champ trophy Spurs my team. And my mother lives in the city. The beautiful game and all that. But your words are clear “Don’t waste lottery picks and millions of dollars on bad bets.” People like me? People who wants our team to thrive. We may have different opinions re our fave player to be drafted, we just want to see our team improves. May be you want a safe bet then its your opinion. I have no problem with that.

Agree. At the end of the day, we’re all fans rooting for our dear Spurs. To me, I like Jalen Johnson. He has a bad rep, but to me, he’s an athletic freak, moves like a guard in a 6’9 body and with the biggest hands in the draft. 8 years ago, the Bucks selected an underweight 18 yrs old kid with freakish measurements and also moved like a guard. 8 years later, he’s a 2x MVP, DPOY, Finals MVP and NBA Champ. Was the Greek Freak a sure bet at 15? Not at all the closest definition of the word, not investing millions of dollars on an underweight, youngest kid of the draft who played in the Greek league and with little known game. Two years prior, Spurs selected a guy at 15 also with freakish hands, quiet demeanor, just worked hard. He was Finals MVP 3 years later, but bolted out and nobody knows exactly the story. You can make your diligence and still roll the dice. And sometimes, if you want to win big, you have to risk big. Jalen could be a big risk, but at 12th with his high potential star? I’m fuckin’ take that risk. Just my take.

[jjspur]

Since a few coaches have left and pop is with the olympic team, I'm worried that certain voices within the front office will be louder this year and we may see a pick that isn't necessarily the logical pick or the popular pic. We may see someone that is ranked in the 20's picked at 12. During the draft, a lot of things are happening, some players may fall for what ever reason, some may then rise. All we can do is hope that the spurs choose a decent player that can actually help the team. Hopefully the spurs don't surprise us too much with their picks. Imagine everyone's surprise if they made a trade ! One more week to go !!!