Good guy with a gun...

[ElNono]

shot and killed by Police...

Arvada police confirm officer shot Johnny Hurley, say he was holding suspect's rifle at the time

ARVADA, Colo. — The Arvada Police Department confirmed Friday one of its officers shot Johnny Hurley, the Good Samaritan who witnesses say shot the suspect in the Olde Town Arvada shooting, which Denver7 Investigates previously confirmed through three ranking sources Wednesday.

Arvada police released a statement and timeline Friday afternoon of the events Monday in which they confirmed Hurley shot Ronald Troyke, the man accused of killing Officer Gordon Beesley, then picked up one of Troyke’s guns, at which time he was shot by an Arvada police officer. The timeline also says that Troyke had planned the shooting beforehand.

The Arvada Police Department released the following timeline Friday afternoon:

• 12:49 p.m.: The suspect’s brother called asking for a welfare check because his brother was going to “do something crazy.”
• 1:08 p.m.: Officer Gordon Beesley and another Arvada officer attempted to contact the suspect, identified as Ronald Troyke, at his residence, to check his welfare but were unable to make contact with him, so they cleared from the call at 1:18 p.m.
• 1:17 p.m.: Dispatch received a call for a suspicious person in the Olde Town Square.
• 1:30 p.m.: Beesley was dispatched to the suspicious person call, arriving at the Olde Town Square at 1:31 p.m.
• 1:31 p.m.: Beesley parked on Webster Street and walked through an alley toward the Olde Town Square. As he walked westbound, Troyke pulled into the area in a truck and parked behind him. The suspect got out of his truck with a 12 gauge semi-automatic shotgun, ran after Beesley and yelled at him. Beesley stopped, turned and immediately was shot twice by the suspect. Beesley did not reach for his gun and took no defensive action. He turned in response to the suspect who then shot and killed him. Troyke then shot out the windows of patrol cars parked in the area and into the air. He ran back to his truck and retrieved an AR-15 and then ran back towards the Olde Town Square with the long gun, where he was confronted by Hurley. Hurley then shot the suspect with a handgun.A responding Arvada police officer then encountered Hurley, who was holding the suspect’s AR-15. The officer shot him.

[Spurtacular]

RandomNono.

[Ef-man]

Sad that shoot first and ask questions later is the standard response for the police.

[Thread]

Sad that shoot first and ask questions later is the standard response for the police.

You've nary room, Ef. Your cop shot that unarmed woman to death on 1-6. Nary room. Nary!!!

[DMC]

Probably saved a lot of lives.

[ElNono]

Probably saved a lot of lives.

We'll never know, tbh. If reports are accurate, perpetrator was intentionally targeting cops. Somewhat ironic he might have saved a lot of cops lives and got killed by one of them.

[Thread]

We'll never know, tbh. If reports are accurate, perpetrator was intentionally targeting cops. Somewhat ironic he might have saved a lot of cops lives and got killed by one of them.

What's the up shot, pal-O-mine? I ain't had my second cup of coffee yet and your ((("reporting"/as CNN always emphatically states/tee, hee))) reads like a police officer fire drill.

[ElNono]

What's the up shot, pal-O-mine? I ain't had my second cup of coffee yet and your ((("reporting"/as CNN always emphatically states/tee, hee))) reads like a police officer fire drill.

Well, the argument goes that a good guy with a gun in the right place and time could arguably save lives. I mean, there's no way to really prove this, and I don't know there are statistically significant samples of this either.

The counterargument is that not everybody is trained to be this good samaritan and that can cost lives itself (stray bullets, etc), including his own.

Even trained shooters can end up dead as well and could escalate a situation in the wrong way. In a nutshell, civilians roleplaying as cops also has a potential deadly risk, especially when gun access is so widely available here in the US.

And in this particular case, we also have the subplot of the trigger-happy cop. Which in and of itself is a counter-argument to the notion that we should leave the shooting to trained professionals.

I thought they were all interesting ingredients on this story, was wondering what kind of chatter we were going to get about it.

[Thread]

Well, the argument goes that a good guy with a gun in the right place and time could arguably save lives. I mean, there's no way to really prove this, and I don't know there are statistically significant samples of this either.

The counterargument is that not everybody is trained to be this good samaritan and that can cost lives itself (stray bullets, etc), including his own.

Even trained shooters can end up dead as well and could escalate a situation in the wrong way. In a nutshell, civilians roleplaying as cops also has a potential deadly risk, especially when gun access is so widely available here in the US.

And in this particular case, we also have the subplot of the trigger-happy cop. Which in and of itself is a counter-argument to the notion that we should leave the shooting to trained professionals.

I thought they were all interesting ingredients on this story, was wondering what kind of chatter we were going to get about it.

The old El-Train always comes thru in the end...

El

[diego]

Well, the argument goes that a good guy with a gun in the right place and time could arguably save lives. I mean, there's no way to really prove this, and I don't know there are statistically significant samples of this either.

The counterargument is that not everybody is trained to be this good samaritan and that can cost lives itself (stray bullets, etc), including his own.

Even trained shooters can end up dead as well and could escalate a situation in the wrong way. In a nutshell, civilians roleplaying as cops also has a potential deadly risk, especially when gun access is so widely available here in the US.

And in this particular case, we also have the subplot of the trigger-happy cop. Which in and of itself is a counter-argument to the notion that we should leave the shooting to trained professionals.

I thought they were all interesting ingredients on this story, was wondering what kind of chatter we were going to get about it.

Basically, the people that make the "good guy with a gun, we need moar guns not less guns" argument are too stupid and dishonest to follow their own logic, and since their argument was never based in reality, more reality (this story) isn't going to stop them from repeating the same line, now cue mass stabbings in 3, 2, 1...

[Thread]

Basically, the people that make the "good guy with a gun, we need moar guns not less guns" argument are too stupid and dishonest to follow their own logic, and since their argument was never based in reality, more reality (this story) isn't going to stop them from repeating the same line, now cue mass stabbings in 3, 2, 1...


...not I, diego, but I will do just as I always do at these moments:::double your arms, double your ammo, and teach yourself how to build ammo***. That-a-way when they come for the guns they won't believe what will happen next even as it's happening.

***remember when that race hustling fuck Hussein was occupying the White House he'd buy up all the gd ammunition and then destroy it, the SOB.

[Frenchfred]

...not I, diego, but I will do just as I always do at these moments:::double your arms, double your ammo, and teach yourself how to build ammo***. That-a-way when they come for the guns they won't believe what will happen next even as it's happening.

***remember when that race hustling fuck Hussein was occupying the White House he'd buy up all the gd ammunition and then destroy it, the SOB.

I'm sure your guns will be really efficient against an F15 strike

[Thread]

I'm sure your guns will be really efficient against an F15 strike

Biden talks a good F-15 and nuke detonation against Americans...

- "All talk and a badge."

- "Al Capone" - "The Untouchables"

[boutons_deux]

Sad that shoot first and ask questions later is the standard response for the police.

with criminal, sadistic, racist, blood-thirsty police, the rule is eye-blink escalation to brutality and killing

Fuck "bad apples" BS, it's the culture of police everywhere.

[Frenchfred]

with criminal, sadistic, racist, blood-thirsty police, the rule is eye-blink escalation to brutality and killing

Fuck "bad apples" BS, it's the culture of police everywhere.

that’s what happened when you don’t have checks and balances. Here an officer of the law is judged more seriously when committing a crime than a regular citizen. But inversely, a crime against a cop is also judged more seriously

[DMC]

We'll never know, tbh. If reports are accurate, perpetrator was intentionally targeting cops. Somewhat ironic he might have saved a lot of cops lives and got killed by one of them.

It's always the case that you never know what was prevented. The fact he was shot by an officer who didn't have proper situational awareness has nothing to do with "good guy with a gun" possibly saving a lot of lives.

[Frenchfred]

It's always the case that you never know what was prevented. The fact he was shot by an officer who didn't have proper situational awareness has nothing to do with "good guy with a gun" possibly saving a lot of lives.

if guns are not easily accessible, only few bad guys have some and police knows that they are bad guys which explains the very low gun deaths in other countries

[DMC]

I'm sure your guns will be really efficient against an F15 strike

Pretty sure no F15 was used in the Capitol Riot. Suddenly a bunch of people with cable ties and cell phones can overthrow the federal government, but if you own a firearm you're pissing in the wind.

There's a double standard being used here. Either people with guns are a formidable force or they aren't.

[koriwhat]

I'm sure your guns will be really efficient against an F15 strike

You're special bro...

Imagine actually typing this bs out and thinking it could be a reality. :lol

[Thread]

Pretty sure no F15 was used in the Capitol Riot. Suddenly a bunch of people with cable ties and cell phones can overthrow the federal government, but if you own a firearm you're pissing in the wind.

There's a double standard being used here. Either people with guns are a formidable force or they aren't.

D M C

[ElNono]

It's always the case that you never know what was prevented. The fact he was shot by an officer who didn't have proper situational awareness has nothing to do with "good guy with a gun" possibly saving a lot of lives.

Well, of course it has everything to do with it. One of the few factual events we can trace his death to is the fact that he was holding the perpetrator's AR15 when he got shot and killed.

Much like we can speculate he saved a lot of lives, we can also speculate he would still be alive today if he would've called the cops and hid instead of trying to be the "good guy with a gun".

[ElNono]

Pretty sure no F15 was used in the Capitol Riot. Suddenly a bunch of people with cable ties and cell phones can overthrow the federal government, but if you own a firearm you're pissing in the wind.

There's a double standard being used here. Either people with guns are a formidable force or they aren't.

There's no double standard, IMO. You're conflating the Capitol Riot with an argument that's constantly brought up by pro-gun advocates.

The argument that civilian armed insurrection can overthrow an allegedly tyrannical federal government is brought up by pro-gun advocates as a means to justify the purchase/hoarding of all sorts of weapons and the sanctity of the 2A, and it's entirely illusory.

I mean, it's unlikely it would need to be escalated to F15s. Drones can be used to the same effect without risking human lives, and even those might or not be necessary,

For a recent example, one can go back to the Bundy standoff to recall what that might look like. F15s were not used then either, but only because it wasn't needed.

[DMC]

Well, of course it has everything to do with it. One of the few factual events we can trace his death to is the fact that he was holding the perpetrator's AR15 when he got shot and killed.

Much like we can speculate he saved a lot of lives, we can also speculate he would still be alive today if he would've called the cops and hid instead of trying to be the "good guy with a gun".

What does that have to do with the fact he killed the shooter? He might be alive today, but many other cops might not be. Being a coward isn't always the right approach. How did calling the cops and hiding work in Walmart or King Sooper's or Luby's?

[DMC]

There's no double standard, IMO. You're conflating the Capitol Riot with an argument that's constantly brought up by pro-gun advocates.

The argument that civilian armed insurrection can overthrow an allegedly tyrannical federal government is brought up by pro-gun advocates as a means to justify the purchase/hoarding of all sorts of weapons and the sanctity of the 2A, and it's entirely illusory.

I mean, it's unlikely it would need to be escalated to F15s. Drones can be used to the same effect without risking human lives, and even those might or not be necessary,

For a recent example, one can go back to the Bundy standoff to recall what that might look like. F15s were not used then either, but only because it wasn't needed.

But Jan 6 was a coup attempt that almost succeeded, nary a gun.

If having a gun doesn't help you, what does not having a gun do for you? We'd have to ask the Jews if they were still around.

[Thread]

But Jan 6 was a coup attempt that almost succeeded, nary a gun.

If having a gun doesn't help you, what does not having a gun do for you? We'd have to ask the Jews if they were still around.

D M C

[ElNono]

But Jan 6 was a coup attempt that almost succeeded, nary a gun.

This is your opinion.

My opinion on Jan 6th is that it was a coup attempt that failed mightily, in large part because guns were not largely involved. It also demonstrated there is a dangerous, extremist, very dumb group of people that will eat bullets if necessary to subvert democracy, which is dangerous in itself.


If having a gun doesn't help you, what does not having a gun do for you? We'd have to ask the Jews if they were still around.

One thing that it certainly does is not give you a false sense of security. I'm pretty confident Johnny here thought that gun was the difference between life and death, and well, looks like he was wrong.

[ElNono]

What does that have to do with the fact he killed the shooter? He might be alive today, but many other cops might not be. Being a coward isn't always the right approach. How did calling the cops and hiding work in Walmart or King Sooper's or Luby's?

This is all largely speculation though. Pretending to be a hero isn't always the right approach either. This is a tangible example of that.

[DMC]

This is your opinion.

My opinion on Jan 6th is that it was a coup attempt that failed mightily, in large part because guns were not largely involved. It also demonstrated there is a dangerous, extremist, very dumb group of people that will eat bullets if necessary to subvert democracy, which is dangerous in itself.

No, it's sarcasm. A few here opined that it was an attempted coup. They want to say unarmed people are dangerous to democracy but at the same time it's useless to own a firearm because of F15s.


One thing that it certainly does is not give you a false sense of security. I'm pretty confident Johnny here thought that gun was the difference between life and death, and well, looks like he was wrong.
Cops also shoot unarmed people.

[ElNono]

No, it's sarcasm. A few here opined that it was an attempted coup, that it was deadly and dangerous and shook the country to the core. If all that can happen without a gun, imagine if they were armed. Yeah they could be stopped, but the mistake plenty here make is to assume LEO and military wouldn't be part of the mob.

That's when you roll out the F-15s, tbh, if needed at all... still is 100% illusory.

Heck, the top military command did not want anything to do with Trump and his calls to action against civilians.

[DMC]

That's when you roll out the F-15s, tbh, if needed at all... still is 100% illusory.

Heck, the top military command did not want anything to do with Trump and his calls to action against civilians.

F15s are too fast for population control. You'd need something more along the line of the Apache gunship or the A-10 Thunderbolt.

I don't think it would be an official military position, but there are plenty "muh gun" types in both LEO and military.

[DMC]

This is all largely speculation though. Pretending to be a hero isn't always the right approach either. This is a tangible example of that.

What's the difference between being a hero and pretending to be one? Stopping the shooter is stopping the shooter. Being killed afterward in a mistaken identity can happen. It happens to undercover cops too, as well as fratricide in the military.

[ElNono]

F15s are too fast for population control. You'd need something more along the line of the Apache gunship or the A-10 Thunderbolt.

I don't think it would be an official military position, but there are plenty "muh gun" types in both LEO and military.

It depends. I think the idea was what a civil war would look like today. I think the point was that if you get a rogue batallion or pilot getting the wrong idea, he'll have to deal with the rest of the force.

I said it before, in this day and age (actually, since around 30+ years ago until now) you look at coups around the world and without the military spearheading it, it's all imaginary.

I get that there's some romanticism from the 1800s about we the people uprising against tyranny... it's all stupidity at this point in time. There are a lot of good arguments to make about the 2A, fighting the oppressive federal government isn't one.

[ElNono]

What's the difference between being a hero and pretending to be one? Stopping the shooter is stopping the shooter. Being killed afterward in a mistaken identity can happen. It happens to undercover cops too, as well as fratricide in the military.

How did he know what the shooting was about, and who was the good or bad guy? Just that one was dressed as a cop and one did not? He didn't know. It turned out to be the right call, but this is also the risk of being jury and executioner as well. If it was the wrong call, would we be talking about a hero now?

Getting involved ended up with getting himself killed, despite having a gun. Was that the right call? You think his wife would rather have to remember the hero or have him next to her instead?

At least he didn't kill somebody else, or got somebody else killed exchanging fire with the perpetrator, but that's also not out of the realm as well.

[DMC]

It depends. I think the idea was what a civil war would look like today. I think the point was that if you get a rogue batallion or pilot getting the wrong idea, he'll have to deal with the rest of the force.

I said it before, in this day and age (actually, since around 30+ years ago until now) you look at coups around the world and without the military spearheading it, it's all imaginary.

I get that there's some romanticism from the 1800s about we the people uprising against tyranny... it's all stupidity at this point in time. There are a lot of good arguments to make about the 2A, fighting the oppressive federal government isn't one.

Yeah, it was imaginary. It's still being used as a scare tactic as if we were on the precipice of having a new leadership foisted upon us by the buffalo man. I'm trying to recall what happened in the 1800's.

[ElNono]

Yeah, it was imaginary. It's still being used as a scare tactic as if we were on the precipice of having a new leadership foisted upon us by the buffalo man. I'm trying to recall what happened in the 1800's.

Make that 'the middle-end of the 1700s'...

[DMC]

Make that 'the middle-end of the 1700s'...

Ok slightly before my time but I heard tell of it.

[ElNono]

Ok slightly before my time but I heard tell of it.

We'll be drinking margaritas over it next weekend!

[DMC]

We'll be drinking margaritas over it next weekend!

And every other liberation holiday for any country on Earth imo