Latest News on the East Side Complex

[TheWriter]

E. Side land courtship hits bump

Web Posted: 11/20/2005 12:00 AM CST

Elizabeth Allen
Express-News Staff Writer

As developer Dan Bailey crafts his plan for a massive sports complex on the East Side, he finds himself in an uneasy courtship with someone key to redeveloping the area — landowner Bill Tidwell.

Last week, it almost blew up for Bailey when Tidwell, tired of hearing his name bandied about town as part of the deal when no promises had been made, had associate Cecilia Garcia send Bailey a harshly worded letter telling him to set the record straight. Garcia copied the Nov. 17 letter to various community leaders.

"It has come to Mr. Tidwell's attention that you or your associates may be representing to others that he has agreed to participate in the project and include his properties within your site plan," wrote Garcia, owner of real estate firm The Priority Group and member of the city's planning board. "We are concerned that others may be relying on your representations that he is a part of this project.

"Mr. Tidwell will support legitimate efforts to improve the area and maximize the use of existing public resources," the letter continued before urging Bailey to cancel plans for a news conference Tuesday at Tidwell's Red Berry Mansion.

Bailey and wife Marlene Bailey own HollyHills Group, a California-based company that already has announced big plans for an industrial park on the South Side and a golf community on the far West Side.

Tuesday they plan to announce their redevelopment ideas for the area that surrounds the Bexar County-owned SBC Center and Freeman Coliseum, as well as the adjacent city-owned Willow Springs Golf Course. Making that work depends on weaving together a web of supporters, each seeming to be looking to the next for confidence.

And at this point it looks like the plan will still — or once again — include Tidwell.

Tidwell owns Cardell Cabinetry, a sprawling cabinet factory along Interstate 35 in the East Side Council District 10. And over the past two years he also bought two important East Side properties. One is the Red Berry Mansion, on 84 acres along Salado Creek and adjacent to the city's Willow Springs Golf Course. And across Houston Street from Willow Springs — and the arenas — he owns a 165,000-square-foot warehouse.

Tidwell's timing is good. Bexar County officials last week awarded a $327,000 contract for a master plan of the SBC Center-Freeman Coliseum complex. That design could reach out to include the golf course and surrounding properties like Tidwell's, and County Judge Nelson Wolff has said any large-scale redevelopment of the area would need to include them.

Wolff was one of those who received a copy of Garcia's letter to Bailey. Others included Mayor Phil Hardberger and District 10 Councilwoman Sheila McNeil.

Garcia's letter wrapped up by saying Tidwell is willing to talk.

They've already been talking for some time, as Bailey reminded Tidwell in a reply sent that night.

"When we first met on the trip to Rockport, we shared with you our Vision of the Eastside," Bailey wrote to Tidwell. "I told you at that time that the project would work without Red Barry (sic) Mansion but you were adamant about leaving it in and you were so thrilled after seeing what we had envisioned for the Eastside."

By Friday morning, Bailey had patched it up with Tidwell, who softened his stance and said they'll meet again today.

"I told him he could go ahead and have his press conference," Tidwell said.

Part of the reason he had asked Garcia to write the letter was because of the rumors that were coming back to them both, he said. The other part was business hardball. Tidwell had grown tired of waiting for Bailey to get him real numbers on a proposed partnership.

"I took a little inventory of my time and where I want to go with my life," he said, adding that he's decided an outright sale to Bailey would be better than partnering with him in an ambitious 10-year project.

Bailey spokesman T.J. Connolly said he expects the conference will be held at the Red Berry Mansion, but will firm up the details after the two men meet.

McNeil said Friday that Bailey never specifically told her Tidwell had signed on to either partner with Bailey or sell him his properties.

"But the impression was that they were going to team up to do this," she said.

Tidwell admitted he's been intrigued with the Bailey plan for some time, but said recently that he would proceed with caution after learning that Bailey had served time for fraud in the 1980s.

Tidwell's been seeking reassurance that city and county officials support Bailey — particularly Wolff, whom he admires. And he said Bailey told him Wolff was on board.

"On board with what, though?" Wolff said when asked about his support. "It's just a sketch. It doesn't say who owns it, or who's going to pay for what. I just said that 'It's great that you've got a vision for the East Side.'"

Wolff has remained coy in part because he thinks Tidwell is key. And he falls back on the county's first duty: intelligent redesign of the arenas property.

"We're going to concentrate on the grounds," he said.

The planners take the same position. Led by Kell Muñoz Architects and San Francisco-based EDAW, they will start with the site itself, said Kell Muñoz CEO Henry Muñoz. Then they'll work their way to the surrounding properties and see how it all fits together.

Muñoz said he hasn't conversed with the Baileys for "going on six months," but a sketch his firm showed county commissioners was remarkably similar in its elements to the ideas Bailey has shopped around. Those include a football stadium, NASCAR track and a baseball stadium.

McNeil said she's waiting on what the planners dream up, and what else is out there, before she takes a position on HollyHills.

"I'm not at liberty to say who they are, but there are a couple of other people who have come to me with ideas about the area," she said.

Tidwell himself has hinted, without elaboration, that others have ideas for the East Side. And whatever those ideas are, he said, to work, they're going to have to be big.

[email protected]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA112005.01B.Courtship.2639ce8f.html

[Marcus Bryant]

So they never bought the property. This is one developer's wet dream.

Figure it out, kiddo.

[The sone]

i thought this was a thread about an illness that makes you switch your pheonetic pronunciation of "ch" and "sh"...as in, "i like your choose" and "i like to eat shicken"...

[ZStomp]

^^ :lol

[SA210]

:lol

[AlamoSpursFan]

i thought this was a thread about an illness that makes you switch your pheonetic pronunciation of "ch" and "sh"...as in, "i like your choose" and "i like to eat shicken"...

But wouldn't that be the West Side Complex?

:lol

[SA210]

^^^ yea :lol

[TheWriter]

So they never bought the property. This is one developer's wet dream.

Figure it out, kiddo.


Read the article dumbass.

[Marcus Bryant]

I did. Turns out kiddo that you were wrong, per usual.

[TheWriter]

Turns out kiddo that you were wrong, per usual.

Really?


The Baileys, though, say their intent is clear. They've bought "substantial" acreage around the SBC Center, and they've spent half a million dollars assembling plans for the district.

[Marcus Bryant]

They didn't close on the site as you claimed. Damn, you are that stupid.

[TheWriter]

They didn't close on the site as you claimed. Damn, you are that stupid.

I told you in the other thread I may have had a fast reaction, I slowed my roll.

But they have bought a lot of land (acres) around the SBC Center and it seems they'll get the Cardell Cabinetry and Red Berry Mansion land as well.

:lol

[Zombie]

All I can say is, good idea stupid area!

[1369]

I'm curoius, with the oil/fuel tanks that border 35 (and I assume in the proposal) what are the EPA clean up costs involved?

[AlamoSpursFan]

That's an Exxon Distribution center and I seriously doubt they'd be willing to move. Something tells me there's a lot involved in moving a tank farm...

[TheWriter]

I'm very interested in seeing the renderings.

[TheWriter]

KENS reported Holly Hills stating that the complex will force no one from their homes.

[TheWriter]

New KENS video:

http://www2.mysanantonio.com/multimedia/video/VideoPlayer/includes/gen_nod_wm.cfm?ids=34170

Talks about:

1) Project includes a football stadium that wouldn't need to be fully paid for by public money.

2) The NFL planning to expand by two teams in 2009 and the Saints future is uncertain.

3) The purchase (finalized yesterday) of the Red Berry Mansion and another industrial storage facility.

4) No one who lives in a home currently will have sell and move out because of this project.

5) Sports Entertainment District will be built on existing land.

6) District would be year round with resort hotels.

7) Renderings will be released today.

[TheWriter]

KENS Video with renderings and virtual tour:

http://www2.mysanantonio.com/multimedia/video/VideoPlayer/includes/gen_nod_wm.cfm?ids=34186

[exstatic]

2) The NFL planning to expand by two teams in 2009...

I doubt that SERIOUSLY. The NFL is in a perfect 8div X 4 teams/per format now, and scheduling is a symetric dream. Everything I've read is that they are NOT interested in expanding anytime soon, which is probably why Tags is putting the full court press on the Saints. If they were expanding that soon, why not just earmark one of the teams for LA? They won't have a stadium ready for at least a few years anyway.

[TheWriter]

I doubt that SERIOUSLY. The NFL is in a perfect 8div X 4 teams/per format now, and scheduling is a symetric dream. Everything I've read is that they are NOT interested in expanding anytime soon, which is probably why Tags is putting the full court press on the Saints. If they were expanding that soon, why not just earmark one of the teams for LA? They won't have a stadium ready for at least a few years anyway.

If they can't get a team to relocate to LA, they have to turn to expansion.

[SequSpur]

Funny how they haven't even spoken to the land owners right across the street. Big dreams.

[TheWriter]

Funny how they haven't even spoken to the land owners right across the street. Big dreams.

I'm sure HollyHills went through all the effort to examine the area, come up with renderings, contact the right people, and now get investors all to be stopped by that guy.

:lol :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Which is why the developer seeks to enlist the support of the public. Developers often work on projects that aren't certain of ever moving beyond the design phase.

[SequSpur]

Actually its quite typical of entrepreneurs and investors to just throw their bs grand ideas out there to see what kind of read they can get.

Here is a problem for you.... how come military drive ends at Potranco but then restarts back up at Richland Hills?

And the whole area is blowing up with Retail, apartments, businesses, etc. etc...

Because somebody forgot that right in the middle of all that, a man owns the land and is not giving it up, therefore that part of the project is not growing due to poor planning by city leaders and entrepreneurs/investors.

[TheWriter]

Developers often work on projects that aren't certain of ever moving beyond the design phase.

Too bad these are.

[TheWriter]

Actually its quite typical of entrepreneurs and investors to just throw their bs grand ideas out there to see what kind of read they can get.

Yeah


Here is a problem for you.... how come military drive ends at Potranco but then restarts back up at Richland Hills?

Why does New Braunfels end at Military?

Why are you short?


Because somebody forgot that right in the middle of all that, a man owns the land and is not giving it up, therefore that part of the project is not growing due to poor planning by city leaders and entrepreneurs/investors.

It wasn't bad planning, just a land owner not willing to give up his land.

[SequSpur]

This project is so far from reality it's not even funny.

[gameFACE]

Maybe I don't get something. Writer, do you actually belive that this is a project that is going to be BUILT? Do you not understand that this is only a "vision" as Bailey says in his interview?

[Marcus Bryant]

Too bad these are.

You hope.

[exstatic]

If they can't get a team to relocate to LA, they have to turn to expansion.

One of: Jacksonville or New Orleans will be in LA. With both of those teams struggling, it makes no sense to expand.

Anyway, with the 15 year plan for HH, Tom Benson will be long dead before there is a NFL quality stadium there. The video said that the last things in place will be the stadiums.

If you want the Austin folks to come down for NFL games (and you'll need them), the VERY ABSOLUTE furthest south you should build would the the old Longhorn quarry site that was considered by the Spurs at one point. That's at like Thousand Oaks and IH 35, just outside of loop 410. Realisticly, you want to build outside of 1604 to cut about an hour, round trip, off of their drive.

[TheWriter]

You hope.

Yep. And believe it will.

And from the fact that the Daniel Bailey said most of this will get built even without any kind public funding.

The condos, hotel resorts, retail, entertainment, golf resort, etc is what HollyHills is going to build. With or without stadiums.

But they are there to entice owners and the leagues to come to San Antonio.

[TheWriter]

This project is so far from reality it's not even funny.

It is?

Is that why the CEO said they would start construction on phase one within 18-24 months on the Chris Duel show?

[TheWriter]

Maybe I don't get something. Writer, do you actually belive that this is a project that is going to be BUILT? Do you not understand that this is only a "vision" as Bailey says in his interview?

A vision? Yes, a grand one. A vision Bailey says will get built even without any kind of public funding.

[Marcus Bryant]

If it's so great why give the public any stake in it at all?

[TheWriter]

One of: Jacksonville or New Orleans will be in LA. With both of those teams struggling, it makes no sense to expand.

Jacksonville resolved all issues with the team. No moving for them.

The NFL can't make Benson move his team to LA, which he has said repeatedly he won't.


Anyway, with the 15 year plan for HH, Tom Benson will be long dead before there is a NFL quality stadium there. The video said that the last things in place will be the stadiums.

15 years for a complete build out. That includes condos, housing, etc.


If you want the Austin folks to come down for NFL games (and you'll need them)

Not really, but keep telling yourself that.

[TheWriter]

If it's so great why give the public any stake in it at all?

Did the public get a stake in La Cantera? How about the Rim or City Base Landing?

[SequSpur]

I see something happening but in a different area, sorry eastsiders.

When the city leaders sit down and really decide to go forward with this project, I am quite sure there are more appealing landscapes to accomplish a sports complex.

[SequSpur]

Did the public get a stake in La Cantera? How about the Rim or City Base Landing?

Strip malls? Now we're talking about strip malls.

How does a strip mall compare to a nascar track, a professional baseball stadium and a football stadium?

[Marcus Bryant]

Per Connolly on KENS there would be public financing involved.

[TheWriter]

Per Connolly on KENS there would be public financing involved.

For the stadiums only but that also plans are that the stadiums won't need to be paid for by a majority of public funds.

[Marcus Bryant]

Right. So some "public" money is needed. We'll see what they consider to be "private" funds.

[TheWriter]

I see something happening but in a different area, sorry eastsiders.

When the city leaders sit down and really decide to go forward with this project, I am quite sure there are more appealing landscapes to accomplish a sports complex.

Yeah, where there aren't black people, right?

Damn, I bet you cried your ass off when they tore down midget mansion?

[TheWriter]

We'll see what they consider to be "private" funds.

The money investors put into it.

[TheWriter]

Strip malls? Now we're talking about strip malls.

How does a strip mall compare to a nascar track, a professional baseball stadium and a football stadium?

I'm talking about what is being built.

Hotels, golf resort, condos, retail, housing, etc.

All being built privately by HollyHills.

[SequSpur]

It has nothing to do with race. :lol

The infracture is not there. Updated highway system, restaurants, housing, amenities, etc. etc.

Dude, those people on Houston St. don't want a Sports complex in their neighborhood.

Reason will tell you that the best place for it is right where Exstatic stated.

Why do you think that land is still sitting there?

[TheWriter]

The infracture is not there. Updated highway system, restaurants, housing, amenities, etc. etc.

That is all in the damn project.

Retail, housing,


Dude, those people on Houston St. don't want a Sports complex in their neighborhood.

Really? You talk to them? Hell, many probably don't. But the people next to the airport don't want the airport there.


Reason will tell you that the best place for it is right where Exstatic stated.

Yeah, not where the SBC Center is, you know, so you could have a complete sports entertainment district. Where one can live, work, shop, eat and watch a game?


Why do you think that land is still sitting there?

Which land? The SBC Center land or the Quarry off 35 land?

[Marcus Bryant]

The money investors put into it.

So then funds raised by a revenue bond issued by a local government would be "public", no?

[AlamoSpursFan]

If you want the Austin folks to come down for NFL games (and you'll need them), the VERY ABSOLUTE furthest south you should build would the the old Longhorn quarry site that was considered by the Spurs at one point. That's at like Thousand Oaks and IH 35, just outside of loop 410. Realisticly, you want to build outside of 1604 to cut about an hour, round trip, off of their drive.

I'm confused.

Austinites will go to the SBC Center (or whatever the hell they're gonna call it) for Spurs games but they won't go further south than Thousand Oaks for an NFL game???

http://www.forumspile.com/WTF-Army_radio.jpg

[TheWriter]

So then funds raised by a revenue bond issued by a local government would be "public", no?

What would that bond money pay for?

If its the stadiums (which some will have to be paid for via public money) yes, the stadium will be public.

HollyHills has stated many times that they will build everything sans the stadiums purely through the private sector.

[Marcus Bryant]

What would that bond money pay for?

If its the stadiums (which some will have to be paid for via public money) yes, the stadium will be public.

OK, you seem to be getting it.




HollyHills has stated many times that they will build everything sans the stadiums purely through the private sector.

All Connolly said was that a majority would be "private". It wouldn't be the first time a developer tried to pass off a revenue bond arrangement as being "private" financing since stadium revenues and not taxes would service the debt.

[TheWriter]

All Connolly said was that a majority would be "private". It wouldn't be the first time a developer tried to pass off a revenue bond arrangement as being "private" financing since stadium revenues and not taxes would service the debt.

Maybe if you lived in San Antonio and watched the news, you know, with thepress conference highlights and interviews after the press conference... you'd know that this happened:

Reporter: You're promising a lot. Do you actually see all this happening?

Dan Bailey: Yes. Without a doubt.

Reporter: If you don't get the public money you talked about, could you still build this project.

Dan Bailey: Concerning the stadiums, probably not. But private investments will be the method for the entire project excluding the stadiums.

[TheWriter]

The thing is, this thing (condos, hotels, golf resort, retail, etc) is getting built without the stadiums in mind, but once/if a team or a league commits to SA, the stadiums will be built.

Although I think the race track is being built no matter what.

[Marcus Bryant]

Maybe if you lived in San Antonio and watched the news, you know, with thepress conference highlights and interviews after the press conference... you'd know that this happened:

Reporter: You're promising a lot. Do you actually see all this happening?

Dan Bailey: Yes. Without a doubt.

Reporter: If you don't get the public money you talked about, could you still build this project.

Dan Bailey: Concerning the stadiums, probably not. But private investments will be the method for the entire project excluding the stadiums.


Yeah, I guess I didn't get to see the afternoon press conference at the office.

I fail to see how what you posted diverges from my observations.

[SequSpur]

Aren't there enough hotels downtown already? What would attract visitors away from downtown or LaCantera to let's say the Coca Cola Warehouse, Freeman Coliseum and Houston St. Warehouses?

Exactly. STFU.

[TheWriter]

Yeah, I guess I didn't get to see the afternoon press conference at the office.

I didn't see the press conference either, just news highlights.

Maybe if you lived in San Antonio, you'd have seen them as well.

[Marcus Bryant]

Perhaps I don't watch each news telecast with my cock in one hand and a remote in the other looking for the mere mention of the latest rumored development to get me to that happy place.

[TheWriter]

Perhaps I don't watch each news telecast with my cock in one hand and a remote in the other looking for the mere mention of the latest rumored development to get me to that happy place.

Neither do I, but whatevers your cup of tea.

By the way, by office, do you mean HEB photo lab?

I remember being in high school, sucked ass.

[SequSpur]

Aren't there enough hotels downtown already? What would attract visitors away from downtown or LaCantera to let's say the Coca Cola Warehouse, Freeman Coliseum and Houston St. Warehouses?

Exactly. STFU.

:huh

[TheWriter]

:huh

Was that directed towards me?

Seeing how those warehouses will be razed.

This:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/insidethe210/HHSED5.png

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/insidethe210/HHSED6.png

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/insidethe210/HHSED3.png

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/insidethe210/HHSED2.png

[Marcus Bryant]

Neither do I, but whatevers your cup of tea.

By the way, by office, do you mean HEB photo lab?

Nope. More like Class A with a nice 4th floor window view.




I remember being in high school, sucked ass.

You mean last year?

[TheWriter]

Nope. More like Class A with a nice 4th floor window view.
Is that the PC BS uphanism HEB is making its employees describe the photo lab.



You mean last year?

Not, more like 4.

[Marcus Bryant]

Wow, 4. Still no degree. Living with your parents. But hey, the modem still works!

[TheTruth]

Perhaps I don't watch each news telecast with my cock in one hand and a remote in the other looking for the mere mention of the latest rumored development to get me to that happy place.
It seems to me you wait with your cock in one hand and the mouse in the other waiting for Writer to post something. I think that is what gets you to that happy place.

Fucking stalker.

[TheWriter]

Still no degree. Living with your parents. But hey, the modem still works!

No degree? Didn't know I needed one. I'm doing pretty damn well without one.

Living with my parents?

Again, thats another no. But then again, I'm just a broken record after saying that for the 11th time now.

But hey, you're a complete dumbass.

[TheWriter]

It seems to me you wait with your cock in one hand and the mouse in the other waiting for Writer to post something. I think that is what gets you to that happy place.

Fucking stalker.

Oh shit.

http://thefaintfan.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/owned3.jpg.w300h200.jpg

[TheWriter]

Grand vision for East Side

Web Posted: 11/23/2005 12:00 AM CST

Elizabeth Allen
Express-News Staff Writer

Developers who want to do a mammoth sports and entertainment complex centered around the SBC Center had their coming-out party Tuesday at the Red Berry Mansion.

The catered news conference announced a vision in its nascent stage, said HollyHills Chairman Dan Bailey. He said the announcement was made early because of recent media attention to HollyHills activities.

Bailey, along with Vice Chairwoman Marlene Bailey, CEO Joe Heitzler and EDAW design firm Principal Ken Ryan, sat before a green velvet curtain, surrounded by images of professional sports fields, a NASCAR track, shaded shopping venues and condominium towers on man-made lakes.

Phase I of the plan would include the NASCAR track, hotel, retail development, movie theaters, and colorful plants and landscape elements at major highway exits, Bailey said, and begin in about two years.

It would take in the city's Willow Springs Golf Course and the Red Berry Mansion, which owner Bill Tidwell has agreed to sell to HollyHills along with surrounding properties, many of which the Baileys have said they are in the process of buying.

Heitzler said it would be six months before they have estimates on the project's cost.

A single sports stadium can easily cost $500 million, so the whole plan, which developers say could take a decade to build out as population growth supports it, would likely run into the billions.

Reaction to the plan, which HollyHills has been privately shopping for months, was a mixture of admiration and skepticism.

Local commercial real estate broker Tom Rohde called it "the best real estate presentation I have ever seen." He also said, "I don't know where the money comes from."

District 2 City Councilwoman Sheila McNeil said she's excited about the developers' interest in investing in the long-neglected East Side but is cautious about the hurdles they face.

"This was an impressive press conference," McNeil said. "Maybe this can become a possibility."

With the panache that helped EDAW win a contract to redesign the grounds of Bexar County's arenas complex around the SBC Center, Ryan presented reporters and curious real estate professionals with a 3-D multimedia illustration of a 1,000-acre sports and entertainment complex that included water taxis, a signature bridge, hotel, resort and offices.

It's not all about developing multiple sports venues, Ryan said. "It's about creating great public spaces."

Mayor Phil Hardberger, who did not attend the news conference but had seen the plan Monday, said, "It's realistic if HollyHills has enough backing to get it done — these are major projects.

"I don't know enough about HollyHills to say whether they can do everything they're planning. Clearly, that's going to be their job — to get the funding."

Bailey said the project will require the efforts of the entire city and "all the people."

It's a plus that San Francisco-based EDAW is working with local firm Kell Muñoz Architects and others on the redesign of the county's property, Ryan said, and the company has included that factor in its concept for the long-neglected area from the beginning.

Ryan added that newly hired former Mayor Ed Garza would be taking the lead on the Bexar County work.

Kell Muñoz Chief Executive Officer Henry Muñoz said he wants to set up a firewall between the public project and the private one — at least for a while.

County Judge Nelson Wolff has said the county must focus first on its own site.

"I think it was very positive, what they're trying to do there," said Wolff, who did not attend the news conference but had seen versions of the plan. "There's still the unanswered question of, what do they expect the public sector to contribute."

Heitzler said he'll be meeting with venture capitalists to raise funds for the project and that should cover up to 80 percent of the costs.

"But we are looking for whatever support it takes," he said.


http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA112305.1B.eastside.df611e3.htm

[j-6]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA120805.1C.COLharvey.17c15cb2.html

Buck Harvey: The latest building salesmen look like the others

Web Posted: 12/08/2005 12:00 AM CST

San Antonio Express-News

The 1-800 line doesn't work anymore. Neither does the local number, which is not surprising.

The area code for San Antonio then, as listed on the yellowing business card, was 512.

The card is from 1992, when a company called the South Texas Football Group thought it had a keen idea. What if these entrepreneurs collected $100 million from fans, then used the money to attract an NFL team to San Antonio?

Naturally, the group would retain a 9 percent "administration fee" no matter what happened.

The South Texas Football Group put together a showy news conference, along with slick literature and contracts for fans to sign. But the group went away, almost as quickly as it arrived, because these schemes gain momentum the way Body Solutions lost weight.

The latest looks no different.

That doesn't stop a California company called HollyHills Development from planning everything but an Alpine ski resort on the East Side. These developers think the SBC Center would look great next to a NASCAR track, golf resort, retail center, hotels, a movie theater complex, a rodeo village, a Major League Baseball park and an NFL stadium.

They say the funding would come from venture capitalists, because people will want to invest in an entertainment district. And the amount of public money that would be required? Oh, they aren't sure yet.

Such creativity might be required to build the Saints a new facility. An ESPN survey announced Wednesday named the Spurs the best professional sports franchise. And coming in last — led by an owner who also came in last among all other pro sports owners — were the Saints.

The price likely would make people gag, too. The proposed stadium to house the Washington Nationals, for example, was supposed to cost $400 million. By the summer the number jumped to $535 million. Now the total package is $700million.

Those venture capitalists had better start writing checks.

In private, most San Antonio officials laugh at the HollyHills stuff. But somehow this company keeps its name in the mix, and it did Tuesday. Then, with the Florida Marlins in town to look around, a HollyHills spokesman wanted to make it clear the company would do all it could.

In the news that day, the HollyHills CEO, Joe Heitzler, tried to get in again Wednesday. He released a statement saying his company was not involved with the Marlins' visit, as if such news is worth a release.

From Heitzler's statement: Although HollyHills has had "selective conversations with a number of Major League Baseball franchises over the past several months, we have curtailed those conversations due to the importance of focusing on the reality of securing an NFL franchise for San Antonio in the form of the New Orleans Saints."

Heitzler sounds awfully consumed. He's so focused on the NFL that even his "selective" talks with baseball franchises have to be put on hold. Chances are, Heitzler also has delayed selective talks with the rodeo-village people.

Red McCombs doesn't know anything about Heitzler or HollyHills.

Then again, McCombs knows everything. Similar people came to him in Minnesota announcing they, too, could provide a shiny stadium for McCombs' Vikings.

"I don't summarily dismiss them," McCombs said, "because maybe they can do something. Never assume they can't. But what I've found? They go down fast."

He's asked around about this group, too, and hears of nothing in place. Not even a local banking reference.

"Everything, from a football stadium to a race track to a baseball stadium, is a major, major project," McCombs said. "They would have more credibility if they had a way to do any one of them."

As for the credibility of HollyHills' owner, Dan Bailey: Not even the South Texas Football Group was led by someone who spent 31 months in prison for mail fraud involving real estate investments.

So they get their names mentioned, and a few people notice.

But if new stadiums are built, at least half the money would come from a familiar source.

Taxpayers living, now, in the 210 area code.

[CosmicCowboy]

In private, most San Antonio officials laugh at the HollyHills stuff.

Finally...someone prints what I have known for months.

[CosmicCowboy]

Where's Linus today? The Great Pumpkin Development Corp. needs his support!

[MannyIsGod]

bump

[exstatic]

Where's Linus today? The Great Pumpkin Development Corp. needs his support!

Fuck, man, that's harsh. :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

http://petcaretips.net/linus_great_pumpkin_letter.jpg

Hmmm...Writer must be busy today...

[CosmicCowboy]

bump

[3rdCoast]

So....

It's been almost a year...

Any news on this?

[METALMiKE]

As much as I love this ambitious project.

It's pretty much a dead deal I think. :(

[CosmicCowboy]

The "dream" project was dead before it started. There will be improvements to the existing facility. I know what they are but can't say right now. You probably won't like it.

[boutons_]

A Ricky Bobby oval playground is exactly what SA needed. sniff

[ChumpDumper]

I can't believe we would ever have a racetrack smack in the middle of town.

I think the whole spiel was just an attempt to get control of the golf course and little else.

[1369]

I can't believe we would ever have a racetrack smack in the middle of town.

See Grand Prix, San Antonio circa 1987

[ChumpDumper]

See Grand Prix, San Antonio circa 1987Those were city streets raced on for one day. Not a permanent track making noise year round.

[1369]

Those were city streets raced on for one day. Not a permanent track making noise year round.

True and agreed, but you never said anything about having to be "permanent".


I can't believe we would ever have a racetrack smack in the middle of town.

What's it all the hip kids over in the politico forum say?

RIF?

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

Since they would be building a dedicated racetrack, I assumed folks would be smart enough to figure out the rest. I won't make that assumption again.

[1369]

:lol

Since they would be building a dedicated racetrack, I assumed folks would be smart enough to figure out the rest. I won't make that assumption again.

With this crowd?

That's as close as you'll ever get to a sure bet.

[scott]

Does this mean no Professional Crickett in SA?