Using capspace as Salary dump for picks - potential partners?

[objective]

Probably a thread like this already but whatever. What potential deals are possible if the Spurs were willing to take the route of renting out their capspace for picks?

Utah is going to be deep in the tax if they keep Conley. And one of the things Lindsay got clipped for seems to be spending money and picks on bigs like Favors.

Favors salary

21-22 - $9,720,900

22-23 - $10,183,800 player option.

They have pick #30.

Would eating $20 million of Favors for 2 years be too much for #30? Back in the day the cost of salary was more or less $15 million for a pick that late like with Richard Jefferson for instance.

OR there has been some talk about Ingles getting moved. Ingles only has 1 year left at $12,436,364. He might have too much value to get #30 attached to him.

Chicago

If they want to keep Markkanen but also spend some money on free agents, getting rid of Aminu's 10.183 million would help. They have pick #38 this summer.

Boston

Hard to keep out of the tax if they want to keep Fournier. Tristan Thompson seems fully washed and wasn't a favorite of Brad Stevens, and is on the books for $9,720,900 in 21-22. The only have pick 45 in 2021 so I'm guessing some other picks would have to be involved unless they wanted to add something like Nesmith.

Any other potential deals?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I've mentioned this in other threads - while the idea of selling cap space for picks is good, there aren't too many actual deals to be made, because teams like Cavs aren't sending lottery picks attached to the Love types, and most other realistic deals like the Favors one you've mentioned, or say Kemba, would come with late picks that aren't worth the financial commitment.

I doubt the Spurs would do deals like this, however, they could facilitate trades being the third team with cap space and try collecting assets this way if their FA targets are gone.

[DPG21920]

I've mentioned this in other threads - while the idea of selling cap space for picks is good, there aren't too many actual deals to be made, because teams like Cavs aren't sending lottery picks attached to the Love types, and most other realistic deals like the Favors one you've mentioned, or say Kemba, would come with late picks that aren't worth the financial commitment.

I doubt the Spurs would do deals like this, however, they could facilitate trades being the third team with cap space and try collecting assets this way if their FA targets are gone.

Just depends. If they aren’t going to use the cap space this season, getting any 1st, even late, is prudent. I can definitely see it happening either as a dumping ground or trade facilitation as you say.

They will likely go after free agents first but if nothing pans out there? Eating a year or 2 for a first isn’t the worst especially if a player like Favors can likely be moved later for another asset as well.

[CGD]

there just dont seem to be as many crappy deals out there as there use to be, or at least the type teams want to attach 1st to get out of. Even the Brick and Wall deals, have two years left these days, and Chris Paul's deal doesnt look terrible anymore.

[BacktoBasics]

All the crappy contracts have way too high of a pick. No one is giving up a top 16 pick simply to shed salary.

[mo7888]

Other than the ones already mentioned I could see the Lakers, Clippers, Minnesota, Golden State and Atlanta looking to shed salary.

Lakers- Trez if he opts in and they don't really S&T for DeRozan
Clippers- Kennard
Minnesota-Rubio
Golden State- wiggins
Atlanta-either Galinari or Capela (probably Galinari unless they think Okongwu is ready to start)

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Other than the ones already mentioned I could see the Lakers, Clippers, Minnesota, Golden State and Atlanta looking to shed salary.

Lakers- Trez if he opts in and they don't really S&T for DeRozan
Clippers- Kennard
Minnesota-Rubio
Golden State- wiggins
Atlanta-either Galinari or Capela (probably Galinari unless they think Okongwu is ready to start)

Wiggins is my least favorite on that list.

[mo7888]

Wiggins is my least favorite on that list.

For me it's just a matter of the compensation for taking the contract. Kennard is the only one there that 'might' be a longer term keeper.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

GS aren’t dumping Wiggins’s contract - they’ll need it for a star trade.

[mo7888]

GS aren’t dumping Wiggins’s contract - they’ll need it for a star trade.

Yes, but that could be part of the dump...moving it to a 3rd team with space..

[DPG21920]

GS aren’t dumping Wiggins’s contract - they’ll need it for a star trade.

Warriors Get: Kuzma + KCP + pick 22

Lakers Get: Derozan

Spurs Get: Wiggins + pick 7

I know with draft and FA this may be a bit wonky to pull off (meaning doing a S&T) but maybe SA would take Wiggins here?

GS gets major salary relief while upgrading their roster for win now along with still having 2 1sts this year

Lakers get their guy in Derozan (if they are truly interested)

Spurs punt free agency for this year (and possibly next if they can’t move Wiggins) but would get picks 7 & 12 this year to usher in more of the rebuild.

[Robz4000]

This is the route I want the Spurs to take tbh. Sell your capspace for picks.

[slick'81]

As long as spurs dont waste that space on mills/derozan its a step in the right direction

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Warriors Get: Kuzma + KCP + pick 22

Lakers Get: Derozan

Spurs Get: Wiggins + pick 7

I know with draft and FA this may be a bit wonky to pull off (meaning doing a S&T) but maybe SA would take Wiggins here?

GS gets major salary relief while upgrading their roster for win now along with still having 2 1sts this year

Lakers get their guy in Derozan (if they are truly interested)

Spurs punt free agency for this year (and possibly next if they can’t move Wiggins) but would get picks 7 & 12 this year to usher in more of the rebuild.

I have a lot of issues with this trade. First of all, as discussed in other threads, it’s illegal as DDR can’t be signed and traded on draft night.

Also it’d mean a capitulation for Warriors’s championship hopes for the sake of savings. They’ve shown the will to spend and I can’t see them completely change course, especially with Steph being a FA soon. They have the assets for a star trade - Wiggins, Wiseman, 7, 14, future picks - this is a very good offer that few teams could beat. They may not get Beal or Lillard but it’s enough to get another really good player.

Besides if they simply want a salary dump and are offering 7 they could get better deals than having to take on KCP and Kuzma.

[slick'81]

I have a lot of issues with this trade. First of all, as discussed in other threads, it’s illegal as DDR can’t be signed and traded on draft night.

Also it’d mean a capitulation for Warriors’s championship hopes for the sake of savings. They’ve shown the will to spend and I can’t see them completely change course, especially with Steph being a FA soon. They have the assets for a star trade - Wiggins, Wiseman, 7, 14, future picks - this is a very good offer that few teams could beat. They may not get Beal or Lillard but it’s enough to get another really good player.

Besides if they simply want a salary dump and are offering 7 they could get better deals than having to take on KCP and Kuzma.


Its definitely a pipedream

[DPG21920]

I have a lot of issues with this trade. First of all, as discussed in other threads, it’s illegal as DDR can’t be signed and traded on draft night.

Also it’d mean a capitulation for Warriors’s championship hopes for the sake of savings. They’ve shown the will to spend and I can’t see them completely change course, especially with Steph being a FA soon. They have the assets for a star trade - Wiggins, Wiseman, 7, 14, future picks - this is a very good offer that few teams could beat. They may not get Beal or Lillard but it’s enough to get another really good player.

Besides if they simply want a salary dump and are offering 7 they could get better deals than having to take on KCP and Kuzma.

Disagree (some). Setting aside the legality (would be difficult but not impossible if agreed upon before hand which we know teams do): KCP + Kuz would improve their chances at winning now. They are better than Wiggins and provides more depth. Not stars but better than Wiggins.

Sure, if they can land a superstar for their assets by all means. This is not a plan A for them. But in the event they cannot land a star? Being able to save money, still have 2 1sts to hedge for future and get more competitive this year? That’s a lot of good things imo.

[cd98]

GS aren’t dumping Wiggins’s contract - they’ll need it for a star trade.

That's somewhat true, but who is going to trade their star and be happy taking Wiggins and his contract back in return. You are happy if you get him a pick in a salary dump at number 7. If you have Bradley Beal are you excited about the number 7 pick and Wiggins? Even if you got the 14 pick too, are you really that excited about that. It will be interesting what they do with Wiggins and whether someone trading an all-star would want him. The issue is, if you salary dump him for a draft pick, say the 14th pick, then who are they going to sign with that salary cap space? The only player I could see that would justify that would be Kawhi signing there as a free agent. And I could see Pop refusing to do a trade that would facilitate Kawhi signing there.

[buttsR4rebounding]

That's somewhat true, but who is going to trade their star and be happy taking Wiggins and his contract back in return. You are happy if you get him a pick in a salary dump at number 7. If you have Bradley Beal are you excited about the number 7 pick and Wiggins? Even if you got the 14 pick too, are you really that excited about that. It will be interesting what they do with Wiggins and whether someone trading an all-star would want him. The issue is, if you salary dump him for a draft pick, say the 14th pick, then who are they going to sign with that salary cap space? The only player I could see that would justify that would be Kawhi signing there as a free agent. And I could see Pop refusing to do a trade that would facilitate Kawhi signing there.

GS had issues with scoring when Steph sat and defense when Wiseman was in. It would have to be 2 separate deals, but DDR and Poeltl for Wiseman, Wiggins and a pick seems to make GS a much better team. Poeltl's screening skills would become legendary in GS. DDR can carry the scoring load for significant stretches of the game. Spurs end up with 3 lottery picks and Wiggins for Nephew.

[objective]

Was listening to an episode of Locked On Kings and they're basically screwed out of keeping Richaun Holmes if they don't drop salary. Maybe they can dump guys to other teams or stretch waive, but just for the exercise ...

Delon Wright (8.526, 1 year), pick #9 and pick #39

For Spurs pick 12

They get off the 8.5 million for moving down 3 spots and 39. They might be able to still get what they want at 12 and can afford to keep their starting center

Can probably do it cheaper in other trades like just giving Bagley away, but there it is

[mo7888]

That's somewhat true, but who is going to trade their star and be happy taking Wiggins and his contract back in return. You are happy if you get him a pick in a salary dump at number 7. If you have Bradley Beal are you excited about the number 7 pick and Wiggins? Even if you got the 14 pick too, are you really that excited about that. It will be interesting what they do with Wiggins and whether someone trading an all-star would want him. The issue is, if you salary dump him for a draft pick, say the 14th pick, then who are they going to sign with that salary cap space? The only player I could see that would justify that would be Kawhi signing there as a free agent. And I could see Pop refusing to do a trade that would facilitate Kawhi signing there.

You also have to wonder how much luxury tax GS is willing to pay since they would be in repeater status.

[Mr. Body]

Was listening to an episode of Locked On Kings and they're basically screwed out of keeping Richaun Holmes if they don't drop salary. Maybe they can dump guys to other teams or stretch waive, but just for the exercise ...

Delon Wright (8.526, 1 year), pick #9 and pick #39

For Spurs pick 12

They get off the 8.5 million for moving down 3 spots and 39. They might be able to still get what they want at 12 and can afford to keep their starting center

Can probably do it cheaper in other trades like just giving Bagley away, but there it is

Jesus, how is Sacramento in cap hell? They don't even have that many good players.

[objective]

Combination of big deals on the books (Fox max, Hield, Barnes, Bagley getting over 11 as a #2 pick)

And Holmes only has early bird rights on a cheap deal. Unrestricted. So they can't use early bird to pay him more than, 4/50? Or was it 4/60?

Either way a team like Charlotte can come over the top of them and they need a center.

[Mr. Body]

Combination of big deals on the books (Fox max, Hield, Barnes, Bagley getting over 11 as a #2 pick)

And Holmes only has early bird rights on a cheap deal. Unrestricted. So they can't use early bird to pay him more than, 4/50? Or was it 4/60?

Either way a team like Charlotte can come over the top of them and they need a center.

Those early draft picks are murder if you don't hit them. Even if the player is middling their future contracts start eating up the cap.

[Kurik]

Was listening to an episode of Locked On Kings and they're basically screwed out of keeping Richaun Holmes if they don't drop salary. Maybe they can dump guys to other teams or stretch waive, but just for the exercise ...

Delon Wright (8.526, 1 year), pick #9 and pick #39

For Spurs pick 12

They get off the 8.5 million for moving down 3 spots and 39. They might be able to still get what they want at 12 and can afford to keep their starting center

Can probably do it cheaper in other trades like just giving Bagley away, but there it is

Good info, would love to see this.

[LCM]

Was listening to an episode of Locked On Kings and they're basically screwed out of keeping Richaun Holmes if they don't drop salary. Maybe they can dump guys to other teams or stretch waive, but just for the exercise ...

Delon Wright (8.526, 1 year), pick #9 and pick #39

For Spurs pick 12

They get off the 8.5 million for moving down 3 spots and 39. They might be able to still get what they want at 12 and can afford to keep their starting center

Can probably do it cheaper in other trades like just giving Bagley away, but there it is

Instead of Wright, how would you feel about Harrison Barnes? Contract is 20 million this year, 18 next so he doesn't screw over cap space for 2023 FA class, he's 28, can play either forward positions. Swap 9 and 12. Opens up cap room for Holmes and Spurs get a better opportunity to secure their guy in the draft. He works on D, can shoot the 3, good FT shooter ... He'll consistently give you 16/6/4 working within the offense without having to dominate the ball.

[Dejounte]

Combination of big deals on the books (Fox max, Hield, Barnes, Bagley getting over 11 as a #2 pick)

And Holmes only has early bird rights on a cheap deal. Unrestricted. So they can't use early bird to pay him more than, 4/50? Or was it 4/60?

Either way a team like Charlotte can come over the top of them and they need a center.

This is the Spurs’ fate if they max Collins.

[objective]

Instead of Wright, how would you feel about Harrison Barnes? Contract is 20 million this year, 18 next so he doesn't screw over cap space for 2023 FA class, he's 28, can play either forward positions. Swap 9 and 12. Opens up cap room for Holmes and Spurs get a better opportunity to secure their guy in the draft. He works on D, can shoot the 3, good FT shooter ... He'll consistently give you 16/6/4 working within the offense without having to dominate the ball.

Allegedly the Kings really like Barnes and would like to play him more at the 4, if the guests and hosts on locked on Kings are to be believed

[objective]

This is the Spurs’ fate if they max Collins.

I doubt it. They already have the guys locked up and affordable who are unlikely to even get bigger offers when those deals are over.

Poeltl makes less than Bagley. Fox almost makes what Murray and White do combined.

[slick'81]

I doubt it. They already have the guys locked up and affordable who are unlikely to even get bigger offers when those deals are over.

Poeltl makes less than Bagley. Fox almost makes what Murray and White do combined.


Yea,really no comparison

[LCM]

Allegedly the Kings really like Barnes and would like to play him more at the 4, if the guests and hosts on locked on Kings are to be believed

I wouldn't want to part with Barnes either. If they want to keep Holmes, then Barnes, Hield, or Bagley need to be moved. Otherwise they'll be reaching for Holmes' replacement at 9 in the draft. They need to clear close to 12 to 15 million to keep Holmes, and Charlotte is the biggest rumored threat to go after him.

[objective]

Looks like Utah will be sending Favors to OKC according to reports, no doubt with some kind of draft compensation attached.

Why aren't the Spurs in on that deal?

Favors wouldn't prevent a max offer sheet to whoever they wanted. They could use a competent back-up center. And they could use some veteran presence in the locker room if they move on from their free agents.

Why does this keep happening?

[YoungbuckMurray]

Looks like Utah will be sending Favors to OKC according to reports, no doubt with some kind of draft compensation attached.

Why aren't the Spurs in on that deal?

Favors wouldn't prevent a max offer sheet to whoever they wanted. They could use a competent back-up center. And they could use some veteran presence in the locker room if they move on from their free agents.

Why does this keep happening?

because the Spurs literally don’t do anything creative. The most boring conservative blah franchise going right now. Free agency will be an absolute dud. They will either A) do nothing or B) overpay some 35+ year old over the hill guys and end up buying them out. Management stinks

[JeffDuncan]

...
Why does this keep happening?


It’s called incompetence.

[CGD]

My confidence in the FO ability overall has been shaken after this draft. Still early I know, but that was always the consolation prize: “even if they whiff at free agency, at least they draft really well.”

Now I’m concerned that even if they do then”dumping ground” strategy, that they’ll whiff on the assets coming back.

Really hope to be proven wrong, and will be first to eat crow if Primo becomes a star.

[Mr. Body]

What was that fancy dealmaking the Spurs did back in the day to get Turkoglu? They did something with Brad Miller for Sacramento, I think? It pulled a rabbit out of a hat for us. It doesn't seem like this FO has those abilities.

[Chinook]

Looks like Utah will be sending Favors to OKC according to reports, no doubt with some kind of draft compensation attached.

Why aren't the Spurs in on that deal?

Favors wouldn't prevent a max offer sheet to whoever they wanted. They could use a competent back-up center. And they could use some veteran presence in the locker room if they move on from their free agents.

Why does this keep happening?

My guess is the Spurs legit plan on keeping those cap holds for other things. Could easily see them re-signing guys, since they're the Spurs. But given that DeRozan is basically looking at only S&T destinations right now, the Spurs need to keep space to hold onto that. Would I have taken this deal? Yes, as there were guys that 30 I liked. But if they were just going to draft Wieskamp there anyway, it would've been a lot of money to pay for whoever else they'd've gotten at 41.

[objective]

Looks like the deal is done. Favors and a future first for a future second.

Spurs stay losing.

[exstatic]

because the Spurs literally don’t do anything creative. The most boring conservative blah franchise going right now. Free agency will be an absolute dud. They will either A) do nothing or B) overpay some 35+ year old over the hill guys and end up buying them out. Management stinks

The actual reason is that we won’t have cap room for 4 days. OKC has had it all year. They’re probably at the minimum salary floor.

[cjw]

The actual reason is that we won’t have cap room for 4 days. OKC has had it all year. They’re probably at the minimum salary floor.

Thank you for saving me having to type this exact same thing.

There will be more than ample opportunities to use the space later. As long as these S&Ts remain viable and can bring back more than a salary dump, you keep the holds on your books. They have three guys that competing teams will have interest in. Yes, they can all sign the MLE but these teams may prefer to move other salaries for them and retain the MLE for someone else.

[objective]

The actual reason is that we won’t have cap room for 4 days. OKC has had it all year. They’re probably at the minimum salary floor.

There's no difference in now vs 4 days from now

It doesn't save Utah any money for the 20-21 season. According to cbafaq, luxury tax is determined by team salary the day of the last regular season game. It doesn't save Utah anything.

[objective]

Allegedly a 2024 top 10 protected pick

[objective]

The Kings, instead of dumping Delon Wright with draft assets to clear room to keep Holmes, just swapped him for Tristan Thompson.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Kings, instead of dumping Delon Wright with draft assets to clear room to keep Holmes, just swapped him for Tristan Thompson.

Terrible terrible deal for Sacramento. Delon Wright is actually a very decent player. Well done Atlanta for turning Dunn and Fernando, who barely play, into a legit combo guard.

[exstatic]

There's no difference in now vs 4 days from now

It doesn't save Utah any money for the 20-21 season. According to cbafaq, luxury tax is determined by team salary the day of the last regular season game. It doesn't save Utah anything.

They’re looking for relief next year. Thought that would be obvious.

The difference between now and currently 3 days from now is that in 3 days, we will have cap room.

[EricB]

Looks like the deal is done. Favors and a future first for a future second.

Spurs stay losing.


why would you blow your cap space on Derrick fucking Favors before you even have a shot at free agents?

[exstatic]

why would you blow your cap space on Derrick fucking Favors before you even have a shot at free agents?

It’s OKC. Amazingly, they spent 3 first rounders, traded one of them for two future firsts, and picked up one future first from Utah. Net: zero. They have two new players, and exactly as many firsts as they had entering the draft.

[CGD]

I think there is a Wiggins deal to be had.

[objective]

why would you blow your cap space on Derrick fucking Favors before you even have a shot at free agents?

It's about negotiating with Utah to get them to wait a few days. That's all.

There's not many free agents worth having, and they would have enough to take Favors and still max Collins if they wanted. Hell, I've seen posters talk up bringing Dieng back at mle-type money. Better to get a similarly paid backup and get a lotto protected pick while they're at it