I hereby declare the Messi-Penaldo discussion oficially over [Archive]

Amuseddaysleeper

07-11-2021, 11:58 AM

Big underdogs? Maybe Messi isn't GOAT if expectations are that low.

heading into the final against Brazil on Brazilian soil I might add:

Brazil have won EVERY Copa America they have hosted (6/6) Brazil haven't lost a match on home soil in Copa America for 46 years

Last time Brazil lost a final to Argentina: 84 years ago

Last Brazil defeat in the Maracanã: 71 years ago

Last time Brazil lost to Argentina in an official game: 12 years ago + Casemiro has never lost a competitive game with Brazil
For Argentina

And Messi and co. Still pulled it off

Amuseddaysleeper

07-11-2021, 11:58 AM

Isn't Argentina favorite to win every Copa America, with or without Messi?

They can’t even qualify for World Cup without Messi

Kawhitstorm

07-11-2021, 11:59 AM

heading into the final against Brazil on Brazilian soil I might add:

Brazil have won EVERY Copa America they have hosted (6/6) Brazil haven't lost a match on home soil in Copa America for 46 years

Last time Brazil lost a final to Argentina: 84 years ago

Last Brazil defeat in the Maracanã: 71 years ago

Last time Brazil lost to Argentina in an official game: 12 years ago + Casemiro has never lost a competitive game with Brazil
For Argentina

And Messi and co. Still pulled it off

Team Nigeria just beat Team USA but carry-on as if they beat the Dream Team…..

Bynumite

07-11-2021, 12:02 PM

They can’t even qualify for World Cup without Messi

They won 2 world cups and 14 copa americas without midget :lol

With Lionel Harden they won a mickey mouse bubble ring after a handful of choked finals :lol

Kawhitstorm

07-11-2021, 12:09 PM

ElNono

07-11-2021, 03:00 PM

They won 2 world cups and 14 copa americas without midget :lol

With Lionel Harden they won a mickey mouse bubble ring after a handful of choked finals :lol

Muphuckas puffing their chest out about squeaking out a win by parking the bus in a game where midget was ghost. It’s not like Brazil’s core didn’t get T-bagged by a Euro squad on home soil.:music

:lmao these tears

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/07/10/sports/10copa6/merlin_190669893_1c01a994-65b9-41a9-8be9-75a22e7ed6c9-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

Kawhitstorm

07-11-2021, 03:12 PM

:lmao these tears

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/07/10/sports/10copa6/merlin_190669893_1c01a994-65b9-41a9-8be9-75a22e7ed6c9-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

Let me know when Shit Americans from Missy's era picks up the big boys trophy. Congrats on not being cucked by Chile.;)

ElNono

07-11-2021, 03:47 PM

Let me know when Shit Americans from Missy's era picks up the big boys trophy. Congrats on not being cucked by Chile.;)

:lmao the tears over the schtick that ended yesterday
:lmao this one is for you hater

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/07/10/sports/10copa6/merlin_190669893_1c01a994-65b9-41a9-8be9-75a22e7ed6c9-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

Kawhitstorm

07-11-2021, 03:54 PM

:lmao the tears over the schtick that ended yesterday
:lmao this one is for you hater

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/07/10/sports/10copa6/merlin_190669893_1c01a994-65b9-41a9-8be9-75a22e7ed6c9-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

https://ticotimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/USMNT-Concacaf-nations-league-2021-trophy.jpg

ElNono

07-11-2021, 03:58 PM

https://ticotimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/USMNT-Concacaf-nations-league-2021-trophy.jpg

what is that???!!??? :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

:lmao "big boy trophy"
:lmao terrible troll game

Kawhitstorm

07-11-2021, 04:05 PM

what is that???!!??? :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

That was my exact reaction to the pic of another midget #10 from the :lolAmericas:lol hoisting a micky mouse silverware

ElNono

07-11-2021, 04:21 PM

:cry That was my exact reaction to the pic of another midget #10 from the :cryAmericas:cry hoisting a micky mouse silverware :cry

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/07/10/sports/10copa6/merlin_190669893_1c01a994-65b9-41a9-8be9-75a22e7ed6c9-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

Amuseddaysleeper

07-11-2021, 04:38 PM

Team Nigeria just beat Team USA but carry-on as if they beat the Dream Team…..

Dumb take, different sport

Messi is the goat

Amuseddaysleeper

07-11-2021, 04:39 PM

They won 2 world cups and 14 copa americas without midget :lol

With Lionel Harden they won a mickey mouse bubble ring after a handful of choked finals :lol

Much much harder competition now

Could be worse, could be Ronaldo taking a team winning nine straight Serie A to their biggest lows in history :lmao

Messi >>> Ronaldo

It’s over!!

:lmao

Kawhitstorm

07-11-2021, 04:53 PM

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/07/10/sports/10copa6/merlin_190669893_1c01a994-65b9-41a9-8be9-75a22e7ed6c9-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale
https://ticotimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/USMNT-Concacaf-nations-league-2021-trophy.jpg

Kawhitstorm

07-11-2021, 04:54 PM

Dumb take, different sport

Messi is the goat

GOAT of the Micky Mouse club:oink

Canyonero

07-11-2021, 04:58 PM

Messi would have scored past Donnarumma tbh

ElNono

07-11-2021, 04:59 PM

Messi would have scored past Donnarumma tbh

It's a Kawhi fan, probably can't even wipe his own ass, tbh

Kawhitstorm

07-11-2021, 05:05 PM

It's a Kawhi fan, probably can't even wipe his own ass, tbh

I have a Brazilian on my staff to do the dirty work

Bynumite

07-11-2021, 05:08 PM

Kawhitstorm

07-11-2021, 05:14 PM

DAF86

07-11-2021, 05:15 PM

Bynumite

07-11-2021, 05:17 PM

Not a single Brazilian survives from that game. :lol

Still, this generation of brazilians is nothing special. At least, considering their past teams.

ElNono

07-11-2021, 05:18 PM

Argies trying to pass this off as some sort of historic upset :lol

In an empty stadium, against the same Brazil core than lost 7-1 at home :lol

It's not even a top 3 underdog win this century.

Greece at Portugal, Portugal at France and even Italy at England are all better.

:lol what's even the argument here? Brazil lost 7-1 to a German team that couldn't even get past the kneelers... everybody can have a fluke game, tbh...

Also, because Brazil was the favorite doesn't Argentina wasn't going to compete...

We're also talking about historically great teams here, not P:lolrtugal

Bynumite

07-11-2021, 05:20 PM

:lol what's even the argument here? Brazil lost 7-1 to a German team that couldn't even get past the kneelers... everybody can have a fluke game, tbh...

Also, because Brazil was the favorite doesn't Argentina wasn't going to compete...

We're also talking about historically great teams here, not P:lolrtugal

History upsets, not historic teams. Read. Do better.

ElNono

07-11-2021, 05:21 PM

History upsets, not historic teams. Read. Do better.

You keep bringing Brazil in a GOAT vs Sidenaldo discussion, tbh... yes Brazil is a historic team, won the most world cups than any other team.

Read. Do Better.

Canyonero

07-11-2021, 05:22 PM

Greece at Portugal

Totally forgot Penaldo handed FUCKING GREECE their only W :lmao. Yet people wanna talk about Chile.

Bynumite

07-11-2021, 05:31 PM

You keep bringing Brazil in a GOAT vs Sidenaldo discussion, tbh... yes Brazil is a historic team, won the most world cups than any other team.

Read. Do Better.

I was referring to this current brazilian generation, which is nothing special compared to previous generations. Not Brazil's resume as a whole.

This current brazilian generation is certainly not historic all time great.

This was not the huge upset some people are trying to portray.

ElNono

07-11-2021, 05:33 PM

I was referring to this current brazilian generation, which is nothing special compared to previous generations. Not Brazil's resume as a whole.

This current brazilian generation is certainly not historic all time great.

This Brazilian team would wipe the floor with 95% of the soccer teams out there...

You're talking about the Brazil team from 2014, which is not the current generation...

Bynumite

07-11-2021, 05:35 PM

This Brazilian team would wipe the floor with 95% of the soccer teams out there...

You're talking about the Brazil team from 2014, which is not the current generation...

This current generation is nothing special or all time great imo, just because they dominate a weak playing field in South America.

ElNono

07-11-2021, 05:38 PM

They're both nothing special imo, just because they dominate a weak playing field doesn't make them special, or all time great.

Nothing weaker than these Euros... France really choked though, I think they're better than this...

Texas_Ranger

07-11-2021, 05:43 PM

people that think Ronaldo is better than Messi are probably 12 or have little knowledge about football and only look at compilations on youtube.

Amuseddaysleeper

07-11-2021, 06:16 PM

GOAT of the Micky Mouse club:oink

Enough about Ronaldo and nations league

Messi >>>> Ronaldo

Amuseddaysleeper

07-12-2021, 07:18 AM

I was referring to this current brazilian generation, which is nothing special compared to previous generations. Not Brazil's resume as a whole.

This current brazilian generation is certainly not historic all time great.

This was not the huge upset some people are trying to portray.

It was easily a bigger upset than Italy over England, don’t even pretend otherwise. The odds were nearly even heading into Italy vs England with England slightly favoured. Argentina was a much bigger upset

Bynumite

07-12-2021, 07:39 AM

It was easily a bigger upset than Italy over England, don’t even pretend otherwise. The odds were nearly even heading into Italy vs England with England slightly favoured. Argentina was a much bigger upset

Packed stadium filled with mostly english supporters >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Empty bubble in Brazil

Amuseddaysleeper

07-12-2021, 07:50 AM

Packed stadium filled with mostly english supporters >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Empty bubble in Brazil

Nope, not even close. England were thoroughly outplayed, fans didn’t help their performance one bit. There’s a reason the odds were so even. Italy were also in the biggest streak in their nations HISTORY. So the underdog crap makes no sense, they were really good.

Brazil had yet to lose a single match since stadiums were empty, and they had an uncanny record in Copa historically. I totally agree this wasn’t Brazil of the classic last but France 2016 wasn’t either. Argentina’s upset was far more historical than Italy’s, not even up for debate my friend

Also, your boy needs to leave Juve if he wants another CL. I feel like psg is a bit lame but him reuniting with Ramos is much smarter than wasting away with a horribly managed Juventus club.

Spurtacular

07-12-2021, 05:50 PM

Let's be honest. CR7 vs. Messi is Bird vs Magic. You guys will still be arguing this in the Jordan era and then some more in the Duncan era and still yet in the Lebron era. :lol

DAF86

07-12-2021, 09:27 PM

https://www.turiver.com/uploads/default/original/3X/5/a/5ad3c329ab4a63d71f5944e7e395c2cfc527b292.png

As advanced stats become more prominent in futbol in the upcoming years, the difference will prove to be even bigger.

Amuseddaysleeper

07-13-2021, 07:58 AM

Talk about massive impact:

https://twitter.com/nicocantor1/status/1414724247583342594?s=21

FrostKing

07-13-2021, 09:11 AM

Still, this generation of brazilians is nothing special. At least, considering their past teams.
Can someone comment on what has happened. Did others simply catch up?

Maybe unrealistic heights were reached. Other giants have also declined i.e. das Germans but they cashed in recently.

Amuseddaysleeper

07-13-2021, 09:57 AM

Can someone comment on what has happened. Did others simply catch up?

Maybe unrealistic heights were reached. Other giants have also declined i.e. das Germans but they cashed in recently.

Others caught up for sure and every country has a golden generation and this isn’t it for Brazil although they are still pretty good. We are no longer in the era where you have 1-2 NT teams tower over the rest

Bynumite

07-13-2021, 10:08 AM

Talk about massive impact:

https://twitter.com/nicocantor1/status/1414724247583342594?s=21

Tells you all you need to know about the level of competition in the Copa America.

Like going off against Bolivia and Ecuador in an empty stadium is some sort of accomplishment :lol

Bynumite

07-13-2021, 10:14 AM

Nope, not even close. England were thoroughly outplayed, fans didn’t help their performance one bit. There’s a reason the odds were so even. Italy were also in the biggest streak in their nations HISTORY. So the underdog crap makes no sense, they were really good.

Brazil had yet to lose a single match since stadiums were empty, and they had an uncanny record in Copa historically. I totally agree this wasn’t Brazil of the classic last but France 2016 wasn’t either. Argentina’s upset was far more historical than Italy’s, not even up for debate my friend

Also, your boy needs to leave Juve if he wants another CL. I feel like psg is a bit lame but him reuniting with Ramos is much smarter than wasting away with a horribly managed Juventus club.

Nope. Ask anyone without a dog in this fight and they'll tell you otherwise.

Coming back from a 0-1 deficit in a packed Wembley stadium, while also coming from behind in the penalty shootout is a bigger accomplishment than what Argentina did in an empty stadium.

Amuseddaysleeper

07-13-2021, 03:16 PM

Nope. Ask anyone without a dog in this fight and they'll tell you otherwise.

Coming back from a 0-1 deficit in a packed Wembley stadium, while also coming from behind in the penalty shootout is a bigger accomplishment than what Argentina did in an empty stadium.

Not at all, again the betting odds even had Argentina as far bigger underdogs than Italy against England. And England scored 2 min in so plenty of time to comeback on top of playing a bunch of kids who had no business taking those penalties. Argentina was a much bigger accomplishment over Brazil, no question. Argentina were much bigger underdogs

Amuseddaysleeper

07-13-2021, 03:16 PM

Tells you all you need to know about the level of competition in the Copa America.

Like going off against Bolivia and Ecuador in an empty stadium is some sort of accomplishment :lol

As oppose to Ronaldo who only gets his open play goals against Andorra and Faroe Islands

Messi had a better international tournament than Ronaldo ever had

Hell Ronaldo doesn’t even make the euro starting XI sonde everyone sees him for the penalty fraud he has become. He has zero impact on the game outside of penalties :lmao he’s a glorified Poacher at the most. It’s all good.

Proceed

Bynumite

07-13-2021, 04:56 PM

Not at all, again the betting odds even had Argentina as far bigger underdogs than Italy against England. And England scored 2 min in so plenty of time to comeback on top of playing a bunch of kids who had no business taking those penalties. Argentina was a much bigger accomplishment over Brazil, no question. Argentina were much bigger underdogs

Italy-England aside, Argentina's win is still not the all time great upset midgetfans are trying to paint. You had the 2 teams predicted to make the final, Brazil was considered the favorite by a small margin. Hardly historic.

Bynumite

07-13-2021, 04:58 PM

As oppose to Ronaldo who only gets his open play goals against Andorra and Faroe Islands

Messi had a better international tournament than Ronaldo ever had

Hell Ronaldo doesn’t even make the euro starting XI sonde everyone sees him for the penalty fraud he has become. He has zero impact on the game outside of penalties :lmao he’s a glorified Poacher at the most. It’s all good.

Proceed

*Stat-padding against average teams like Bolivia and Ecuador
*Did nothing in the final
*Bailed out by Di Maria
*Empty stadiums
*Mickey Mouse ring
*All kinds of asterisks

Let us proceed

Amuseddaysleeper

07-13-2021, 05:26 PM

Italy-England aside, Argentina's win is still not the all time great upset midgetfans are trying to paint. You had the 2 teams predicted to make the final, Brazil was considered the favorite by a small margin. Hardly historic.

The margin isn’t as small as you say it was at all. Brazil was at 2.0 with Argentina at 3.45 the amount whereas England (2.65) and Italy (2.75) was much closer

However, considering the histories of Brazil and how well they had done on their own soil in the last 100 years in this tourney, it’s a very memorable win, far more so than had Argentina beaten chile before for example

Amuseddaysleeper

07-13-2021, 05:28 PM

*Stat-padding against average teams like Bolivia and Ecuador
*Did nothing in the final
*Bailed out by Di Maria
*Empty stadiums
*Mickey Mouse ring
*All kinds of asterisks

Let us proceed

Penaldo:

*did nothing in the final (literally)
*Bailed out by Eder
*Changing the rules so third place teams could advance while being in an easy group
*Jammiest NT win of the last 30 years
*Just one win in 90 minutes, all kinds of asterisks

Let us Proceed

Bynumite

07-13-2021, 05:35 PM

Penaldo:

*did nothing in the final (literally)
*Bailed out by Eder
*Changing the rules so third place teams could advance while being in an easy group
*Jammiest NT win of the last 30 years
*Just one win in 90 minutes, all kinds of asterisks

Let us Proceed

Still not a mickey mouse bubble ring like midget's :lol

Oh and 2>1

Let us proceed

Bynumite

07-13-2021, 05:41 PM

The margin isn’t as small as you say it was at all. Brazil was at 2.0 with Argentina at 3.45 the amount whereas England (2.65) and Italy (2.75) was much closer

However, considering the histories of Brazil and how well they had done on their own soil in the last 100 years in this tourney, it’s a very memorable win, far more so than had Argentina beaten chile before for example

Now Chile, a team with no trophies before the 2015 CA win, beating the World Cup finalist and perennial Copa America favorite in back to back finals, is not as memorable as Argentina's win over Brazil :lmao

The things midgetfans tell themselves. The delusion never stops :lol I'm surprised you can even type with midget's nuts hanging on your face.

Amuseddaysleeper

07-13-2021, 07:52 PM

Now Chile, a team with no trophies before the 2015 CA win, beating the World Cup finalist and perennial Copa America favorite in back to back finals, is not as memorable as Argentina's win over Brazil :lmao

The things midgetfans tell themselves. The delusion never stops :lol I'm surprised you can even type with midget's nuts hanging on your face.

Oh chile over Argentina was big, but you know what’s more embarrassing? Being the euro winner and getting cucked by chile in the semi final of the federations cup. And the Portugal proceed to get curb stomped by a Uruguay side that got eliminated a round later. Same shit with Portugal getting cucked by Belgium who only got a round further. At least Argentina lost to eventual champions everytime.

And Olympic gold medal >>>> nations league

And you need to penaldo tiny dick out of your mouth my friend. Claiming the media in ballon d’or wouldn’t vote for Ronaldo because they love Messi too much :lmao I can’t even :lmao

Let us proceed

Bynumite

07-13-2021, 08:37 PM

Oh chile over Argentina was big, but you know what’s more embarrassing? Being the euro winner and getting cucked by chile in the semi final of the federations cup. And the Portugal proceed to get curb stomped by a Uruguay side that got eliminated a round later. Same shit with Portugal getting cucked by Belgium who only got a round further. At least Argentina lost to eventual champions everytime.

And Olympic gold medal >>>> nations league

And you need to penaldo tiny dick out of your mouth my friend. Claiming the media in ballon d’or wouldn’t vote for Ronaldo because they love Messi too much :lmao I can’t even :lmao

Let us proceed

Boiled down:

2>1

5>4

Top scorer of all time

Midget king of the media awards and mickey mouse bubble rings

Let us proceed

DAF86

07-13-2021, 08:45 PM

Bynumite

07-13-2021, 08:54 PM

Who cares how much of an underdog Argentina was? :lol It was the Copa America, against Brazil, in the Maracana. After a 28 years drought. It doesn't matter that there was a reduced public, it is easily Argentina's 3rd biggest trophy in history.

*Empty Maracana

They could have played the final in your grandma's backyard and it wouldn't have made a difference :lol

Amuseddaysleeper

07-13-2021, 09:36 PM

Boiled down:

2>1

5>4

Top scorer of all time

Midget king of the media awards and mickey mouse bubble rings

Let us proceed

Media awards :lmao fucking Ronaldo’s agent owns a company just to give him awards with that Dubai awards bullshit.

Who gives a shit about an empty stadium, you’re so dumb if you can’t see the historic context of this but then again you’re trying to argue for nations league as a legit trophy :lmao :lmao

It’s over, Messi will forever be seen as greater than Ronaldo who gets done in by the Porto’s of the world :lmao

ElNono

07-13-2021, 10:36 PM

What discussion? :lol

Spurtacular

07-14-2021, 01:46 AM

Tells you all you need to know about the level of competition in the Copa America.

Like going off against Bolivia and Ecuador in an empty stadium is some sort of accomplishment :lol

That and Messi is the equivalent of Allen Iverson always needing the ball. :lol

Amuseddaysleeper

07-14-2021, 11:20 AM

That and Messi is the equivalent of Allen Iverson always needing the ball. :lol

You’re such an idiot holy shit :lmao

apalisoc_9

07-14-2021, 04:55 PM

It was over a long time ago when Ronaldo won a title with Juve...

Amuseddaysleeper

07-14-2021, 10:27 PM

It was over a long time ago when Ronaldo won a title with Juve...

:lmao yeah the Juve that won serie A 9 times in a row when he joined.

apalisoc_9

07-15-2021, 12:59 AM

:lmao yeah the Juve that won serie A 9 times in a row when he joined.

Ronaldo
- Champion in England
- Champion in Spain
- Champion in Italy
- Lead Portugal to international Glory

Messi won a copa America that is held every 2 weeks and his most dominant years came with Xavi and iniesta.

Barca has been irrelevant since those guys left.

Winning against Gibraltar don’t count if you can’t prove you can win in any other way

Amuseddaysleeper

07-15-2021, 04:58 PM

Ronaldo
- Champion in England
- Champion in Spain
- Champion in Italy
- Lead Portugal to international Glory

Messi won a copa America that is held every 2 weeks and his most dominant years came with Xavi and iniesta.

Barca has been irrelevant since those guys left.

Winning against Gibraltar don’t count if you can’t prove you can win in any other way

Ronaldo:

Took Juve to their lowest point in a decade and lowest trophy count

Man united won the league and went to a CL final after he left

Real Madrid won the league after he Left

Ronaldo gets knocked out by midtable teams like Porto and Lyon.

It’s great that all he can do is penalties and absolutely nothing else. Didn’t even make it to the euro starting Xi because he’s been exposed for the glorified poacher that he is. Good thing Eder carried Portugal in the final.

Ronaldo can continue being a flat track bully against faroe islands though. He’s past it and hurts teams more than he helps.

DAF86

07-15-2021, 06:40 PM

That and Messi is the equivalent of Allen Iverson always needing the ball. :lol

That's one of the dumbest analogies ever son.

Bynumite

07-15-2021, 06:51 PM

There's been 4 editions of the Copa America in the past 6 years alone :lol At some point even a choker like midget was bound to win one :lol

Lionel Harden gets no props for winning a mickey mouse bubble ring held almost yearly, with only 2 legit contenders and played in empty stadiums :lol

Bynumite

07-15-2021, 06:57 PM

Ronaldo:

Took Juve to their lowest point in a decade and lowest trophy count

Man united won the league and went to a CL final after he left

Real Madrid won the league after he Left

Ronaldo gets knocked out by midtable teams like Porto and Lyon.

It’s great that all he can do is penalties and absolutely nothing else. Didn’t even make it to the euro starting Xi because he’s been exposed for the glorified poacher that he is. Good thing Eder carried Portugal in the final.

Ronaldo can continue being a flat track bully against faroe islands though. He’s past it and hurts teams more than he helps.

Serie A golden boot at the age of 36 with 29 goals is finished :lmao

You've been saying Ronaldo is finished for the past 10 years or so, i mean, at some point you can claim to be right since every player inevitably retires.

As it stands, that's the worst shit take in the history of online sports message boards and you should just quit talking sports altogether tbh, because you don't know shit about shit :lol

Amuseddaysleeper

07-15-2021, 08:04 PM

Serie A golden boot at the age of 36 with 29 goals is finished :lmao

You've been saying Ronaldo is finished for the past 10 years or so, i mean, at some point you can claim to be right since every player inevitably retires.

As it stands, that's the worst shit take in the history of online sports message boards and you should just quit talking sports altogether tbh, because you don't know shit about shit :lol

You know who also led serie a in scoring? A 36
Year old Quagliarella. So please shut the fuck up about the Mickey Mouse league that is serie a. It’s a retirement home. Even ibra has a field day there.

Ronaldo was done once he no longer had Modric and Ramos. He’s a glorified poacher, period. A slightly better Ibra at this stage of his career. The guy can’t even get into a euro starting XI anymore since he’s just a penalty merchant now. It’s all good, he’s had a good career but teams aren’t going to care to sign him since he unsettles them. Juve made a massive mistake with him.

Bynumite

07-15-2021, 08:19 PM

You know who also led serie a in scoring? A 36
Year old Quagliarella. So please shut the fuck up about the Mickey Mouse league that is serie a. It’s a retirement home. Even ibra has a field day there.

Ronaldo was done once he no longer had Modric and Ramos. He’s a glorified poacher, period. A slightly better Ibra at this stage of his career. The guy can’t even get into a euro starting XI anymore since he’s just a penalty merchant now. It’s all good, he’s had a good career but teams aren’t going to care to sign him since he unsettles them. Juve made a massive mistake with him.

Point still stands. A so called finished player doesn't score 29 goals in a top tier domestic league, 41 overall in every competition this season at the age of 36. Just own up to your shit take and eat you shit sandwich. Your takes are trash.

and you can say the same shit about Lionel Harden, he's worth nowhere near his €500 million contract but i wouldn't expect anything less from a bankrupt club like Barca. Incompetence from top to bottom. Starting with the management and ending with the players themselves.

and La Liga is living off of past reputation at this point, they're not really any better than the Serie A nowadays.

Amuseddaysleeper

07-15-2021, 11:31 PM

Point still stands. A so called finished player doesn't score 29 goals in a top tier domestic league, 41 overall in every competition this season at the age of 36. Just own up to your shit take and eat you shit sandwich. Your takes are trash.

and you can say the same shit about Lionel Harden, he's worth nowhere near his €500 million contract but i wouldn't expect anything less from a bankrupt club like Barca. Incompetence from top to bottom. Starting with the management and ending with the players themselves.

and La Liga is living off of past reputation at this point, they're not really any better than the Serie A nowadays.

Barcelona absolutely has horrible management, much like Juventus. Both players have been screwed by piss poor management in recent years. The difference is, one is getting his record breaking 7th ballon d’or while the other is (understandably) declining at his age. And honestly, for 36, Ronaldo is good for his age, but after this Juventus debacle I don’t think any team with genuine CL aspirations will take a 1-2 year flyer on him which is kind of a shame because he can genuinely be a solid contributor to a CL title winning team if he has the right midfield behind him

Canyonero

12-18-2022, 12:59 PM

Bump

DAF86

12-18-2022, 01:10 PM

It was a good run, sons.

RIP

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6hGAHg2coYHXFl3_43TyFksYKOcqQN 8FBSs_gUYP8&s

lefty

12-18-2022, 01:15 PM

I said hee a few years ago I would have Messi as my avatar if he wins the WC, being so sure of myself

I’m a man of my word

I’ll make the change some time this weel

Ariel

12-18-2022, 02:25 PM

I think it's fair to say today was harder on Ronaldo than on Mbappé :lol

Amuseddaysleeper

12-18-2022, 03:58 PM

I said hee a few years ago I would have Messi as my avatar if he wins the WC, being so sure of myself

I’m a man of my word

I’ll make the change some time this weel

Cheers

The debate is officially closed

Amuseddaysleeper

12-18-2022, 03:59 PM

Bynumite

It’s been a pleasure

Pocho La Pantera

12-28-2022, 10:09 AM

How was this ever a debate?

Amuseddaysleeper

12-29-2022, 03:15 AM

How was this ever a debate?

You’d have to be a moron to ever think Ronaldo was better. The playmaking alone puts Messi well ahead. Ronaldo is toxic as hell. Can’t think of another athlete who cratered as badly as Ronaldo has.

Pocho La Pantera

12-29-2022, 10:32 AM

Ariel

12-29-2022, 05:45 PM

You’d have to be a moron to ever think Ronaldo was better. The playmaking alone puts Messi well ahead. Ronaldo is toxic as hell. Can’t think of another athlete who cratered as badly as Ronaldo has.
The only reason there was ever a debate was that Messi was often even better at Ronaldo's best trait (scoring) than Ronaldo was, so a good chunk of people who couldn't go beyond basic arithmetic that used scoring records as a proxy for best player. If that was the end all be all definite measure of greatness, then Maradona, Cruyff or Zidane could never have been in the best ever debate, which is silly even for the stupidest of fans.
The fact of the matter is, that is just one trait, but it's necessary to look at the overall impact on the rest of the team, assists and the chances they helped generate beyond assists, impact on winning, etc. As a goalscorer they are close, but in any other area Messi was always so far above Ronaldo for anyone with half a brain that it's stupid to put the two in the same sentence.

FrostKing

12-29-2022, 06:03 PM

You’d have to be a moron to ever think Ronaldo was better. The playmaking alone puts Messi well ahead. Ronaldo is toxic as hell. Can’t think of another athlete who cratered as badly as Ronaldo has.
Ronaldo took more risks in his career and even changed positions. Messi is aging better because he's just a MF and he played it safe in his career - Barcelona and now PSG. He'll never step foot in the EPL.

Ronaldo is the alpha leader. Messi is the nice guy teammate. I'll take Cristiano in a 1-match finale but Messi over the course of a long season.

How many times did Messi's team blow a 3+ goal margin? The 2-8 beat down by Bayern? Those remain In a career portfolio...

ElNono

12-29-2022, 06:05 PM

Penaldo was never in this discussion, tbh. Props for being a hard worker though.

Realistically he’s not even better than Brazil’s Ronaldo or Zidane, tbh

Ariel

12-29-2022, 06:25 PM

Ronaldo took more risks in his career and even changed positions. Messi is aging better because he's just a MF and he played it safe in his career - Barcelona and now PSG. He'll never step foot in the EPL.

Ronaldo is the alpha leader. Messi is the nice guy teammate. I'll take Cristiano in a 1-match finale but Messi over the course of a long season.

How many times did Messi's team blow a 3+ goal margin? The 2-8 beat down by Bayern? Those remain In a career portfolio...
Ronaldo took more risks how? By joining the best European team at the time in Manchester United? By bolting for the most powerful team on Earth Real Madrid, to play alongside Modric, Benzema, Sergio Ramos, Toni Kroos, Varane, Casemiro and the like? By bolting for the most powerful team (Juventus) in a lesser league when declining? That is the most overplayed BS in the history of mankind. Messi had a stellar cast around him until around 2015, then it began fading, whereas Real Madrid kept growing stronger. Ronaldo is the alpha leader in that he puts himself above the team, when he's good enough he's worth it, when not he's a cancer. If he's surrounded by Modric, Kroos, Benzema, and Di María he can pass off for Messi's equal because he'll make sure they work their asses off for him while he reaps the rewards, in any other scenario it's Messi by a landslide.

DAF86

12-29-2022, 11:06 PM

Ronaldo took more risks in his career and even changed positions. Messi is aging better because he's just a MF and he played it safe in his career - Barcelona and now PSG. He'll never step foot in the EPL.

Ronaldo is the alpha leader. Messi is the nice guy teammate. I'll take Cristiano in a 1-match finale but Messi over the course of a long season.

How many times did Messi's team blow a 3+ goal margin? The 2-8 beat down by Bayern? Those remain In a career portfolio...

Such a bunch of crap. :lol

Messi has scored on every single elimination round of the WC, U-20 WC, and the UCL. He's also the all-time leader in goals and assists in final games. Why would you take anyone over the best statistically player of elimination games and finals?

Also, Ronaldo isn't an alpha leader, he's an egotistical sociopath. If things aren't going his way, he's a problem in the lockeroom.

Messi is a Sigma leader. The guy that knows is the best so he doesn't need external recognition from anyone else. That's why he's chill and his teammates love him and go to War for him.

And the whole "taking chances" argument is just laughable. What risk are you taking by going to the biggest club in the World? :lol Also, you can't penalize a guy for being loyal. Messi wanted to stay in Barca even though they were on clear decline. Ronaldo escaped Madrid as soon as he thought they were declining, and went to a UCL finalist. :lol

Also, the EPL argument, are we still doing that crap? Do you really think Messi wouldn't do well playing for City against the Bournemouths of England? :lol

JakeCuenca

12-29-2022, 11:25 PM

Alpha leader sigma leaders..lol what a clown. Who cares. Messi fanboys reaching.

Messi statistically is the greatest player of all time, but the way the game is played now..this shouldn’t come as a surprise. He’s a Ronaldo, Zidane type of talent who lived in an era full of talented players that he gets to play with and a more open and dynamic playstyle.

Just look at the Rate Haaland is scoring now.

Great player but ultimately he hasn’t really done anything to separate himself from other greats.

Amuseddaysleeper

12-30-2022, 12:49 AM

DAF86

12-30-2022, 12:24 PM

:cry Alpha leader sigma leaders..lol what a clown. Who cares. Messi fanboys reaching.

Messi statistically is the greatest player of all time, but the way the game is played now..this shouldn’t come as a surprise. He’s a Ronaldo, Zidane type of talent who lived in an era full of talented players that he gets to play with and a more open and dynamic playstyle.

Just look at the Rate Haaland is scoring now.

Great player but ultimately he hasn’t really done anything to separate himself from other greats.:cry

FrostKing

01-07-2023, 09:34 PM

https://i.ibb.co/dkD1ddK/Screenshot-20230107-174151-Instagram.jpg

FrostKing

01-13-2023, 10:00 PM

https://i.ibb.co/qdZSK61/IMG-1660.jpg

TDMVPDPOY

01-25-2023, 08:40 PM

is there a top10 list for 2010-2020

or

top10 2000-2020??

cause i remember when these 2 guys were on the scene, there was another guy getting alot of hype...KAKA, i wonder if guys like robben, sneijder, ribbery, bale are higher then him on the top10 lists from 2000-2020 or 2010-2020

Amuseddaysleeper

08-11-2023, 01:40 PM

Too funny

https://twitter.com/espnfc/status/1690058483230490625?s=46&t=3E6ZZm9TEJ86uliqnu99pw

lefty

08-11-2023, 04:20 PM

Too funny

https://twitter.com/espnfc/status/1690058483230490625?s=46&t=3E6ZZm9TEJ86uliqnu99pw

Being 2nd best ever after Maradona is nothing to be ashamed of tbh

Amuseddaysleeper

08-12-2023, 09:25 PM

Being 2nd best ever after Maradona is nothing to be ashamed of tbh

You’re right, being third on the all time list, second after maradona is nothing to be ashamed about ;)

lefty

08-15-2023, 12:57 PM

FrostKing

08-15-2023, 02:57 PM

It's fair to say Messi has had the better & safer career but Ronaldo more influential and changed the game

Hoops Czar

08-15-2023, 10:29 PM

It's fair to say Messi has had the better & safer career but Ronaldo more influential and changed the game
I'm not sure what the bolded even means but, Ronaldo spent his entire career being a poacher. It doesn't get an Safer than that. The rest about Ronaldo being more influencial and changing the game is pure nonsense. I bet you couldn't even keep a straight face when typing this.

Amuseddaysleeper

08-16-2023, 09:13 PM

It's fair to say Messi has had the better & safer career but Ronaldo more influential and changed the game

Ronaldo has fallen off hard and MLS gets far more engagement than the Saudi league even if both leagues are shit. Ronaldo will go down as time goes on. His skill set doesn't get remembered fondly

diego

08-17-2023, 09:02 AM

:lol all those big name players going to Saudi Arabia in the same window holy shit

The Ronaldo Effect

Messi has only taken his family and his HGH stack with him to the MLS in the same window :lol
(I know Messi 1 WC, Ronaldo 0, fuck you, you know who you are)

it was very courageous of him to show everyone what little consequences there are to selling out to the saudi, but give some credit to real madrid too, they know a thing or two about dirty money and sportswashing human rights violations.. does ronaldo develop that ability without going to RM?

lefty

08-17-2023, 09:18 AM

it was very courageous of him to show everyone what little consequences there are to selling out to the saudi, but give some credit to real madrid too, they know a thing or two about dirty money and sportswashing human rights violations.. does ronaldo develop that ability without going to RM?
Like Messi selling out to Apartheid Israel when they pay him to visit ?

diego

08-17-2023, 12:37 PM

Messi is a sell out too, Manu as well.. they don't make them like they used to.

Ronaldo and Madrid are on another level though...

Bynumite

08-17-2023, 01:46 PM

The midget clown show continues wherever he goes it seems :lol

20 years of paid refs in la liga, world cup paid with oil money, now getting preferential treatment in the MLShit.

What the hell is even this? :lmao

1691356418975150081

Bynumite

08-17-2023, 01:54 PM

Amuseddaysleeper

08-17-2023, 05:37 PM

The guy looked like a TOSB in France 2 years ago, in a league that's not even a top 5 league in Europe.

Now all of a sudden, he's back to scoring like his prime self. Not suspicious at all :lol I know they're scrubs but they're not even trying :lol

That's the thing with american sports. There's always that stench of scripting in the air.

He dominated a world cup, MLS is using him a hell of a lot better than PSG did, even if MLS is a shittier league.

PSG was a mistake, he would have thrived at City or any competent team. PSG was such a drag.

At least even you now admit he's the GOAT. Shame how Ronaldo's career ended, he did it to himself tbh.

Ariel

08-19-2023, 02:20 PM

Being 2nd best ever after Maradona is nothing to be ashamed of tbh
Cristiano Ronaldo isn't even the best ever Ronaldo... he's probably the third best footballer with his own name, let alone overall. These 2 at their peak were superior:
https://i.ibb.co/VY5vHkN/ronaldo.jpg

Ariel

08-19-2023, 02:25 PM

The guy looked like a TOSB in France 2 years ago, in a league that's not even a top 5 league in Europe.

Now all of a sudden, he's back to scoring like his prime self. Not suspicious at all :lol I know they're scrubs but they're not even trying :lol

That's the thing with american sports. There's always that stench of scripting in the air.
That's BS, Messi played well in Paris but not to his full potential because he was miserable there. PSG is such a toxic, horrendous club that will never see a player of Messi's stature, only a moron would boo Messi and they deserve their fate. Messi proved in the WC he is still the best, all he needs is an environment where he can be happy, he got out of that shithole and he picked up right where he left off.

lefty

08-23-2023, 06:25 PM

Another one

The Ronaldo effect

https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1694483518208770081

DMX7

08-23-2023, 08:27 PM

The Saudi Pro League must be a money losing machine.

pgardn

08-23-2023, 08:36 PM

Another one

The Ronaldo effect

https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1694483518208770081

This is something to be proud of or what?
The Saudi league is pure fabrication via money.

I cant wait for all to come on here and claim our personal favorite Saudi Team and all get together to watch the games or discuss them...
The Saudi league could be bigger than the WC? Where are the Saudi League team emblems... (Where is the Tottenham team emblem???? No one cares except me)

cmon left man.
This is much worse than a horrible try at a Super League without the backing of ANY fans of a city with soccer tradition.
So you were actually saying the Ronaldo effect is get paid for doing nothing that fans really care about?
Miami is at least a large city that likes it sports. Some people are watching who care. But there will never be Barcelona v. RM in the same way.
And its not Portugal v. Argentina either...

cmon left man you are better than this.

lefty

08-23-2023, 09:36 PM

Hoops Czar

08-25-2023, 06:14 PM

:lol eiropean clubs fans are mad at Saudi clubs buying players but they are ok with big euro clubs spending cash.

They have no problem with their own euro clubs being financially backed by camel fuckers either :lol
Saudi trying to buy their way into champions league. When they have to abide by FFP rules and have nothing more to offer players than European clubs do, players won't be so quick to jump on the Saudi bandwagon.

ElNono

08-25-2023, 06:35 PM

Saudis have a bid for the 2034 World Cup, that's the main reason they're spending bottomless dollars to appear they give a shit about football.

We'll see if they keep at it after that's decided.

lefty

08-25-2023, 07:01 PM

Saudi trying to buy their way into champions league. When they have to abide by FFP rules and have nothing more to offer players than European clubs do, players won't be so quick to jump on the Saudi bandwagon.

:lol FFP rules aren’t even bring enforced

lefty

08-25-2023, 07:02 PM

Saudis have a bid for the 2034 World Cup, that's the main reason they're spending bottomless dollars to appear they give a shit about football.

We'll see if they keep at it after that's decided.

Interesting point tbh

pgardn

08-25-2023, 09:43 PM

:lol eiropean clubs fans are mad at Saudi clubs buying players but they are ok with big euro clubs spending cash.

They have no problem with their own euro clubs being financially backed by camel fuckers either :lol

So which city in Saudi Arabia do you follow closely?
Describe their fan base and teams of the past you really appreciated.

lol …. leftman cmon. They all throw money at teams, but who actually have FANS?
You like Real Madrid for why left man? Be serious here.

lefty

08-25-2023, 10:55 PM

Describe their fan base and teams of the past you really appreciated.

.

*Man City fans have entered the chat*

pgardn

08-26-2023, 09:00 AM

*Man City fans have entered the chat*

Newcastle fans applaud…

DAF86

08-26-2023, 01:41 PM

This is something to be proud of or what?
The Saudi league is pure fabrication via money.

I cant wait for all to come on here and claim our personal favorite Saudi Team and all get together to watch the games or discuss them...
The Saudi league could be bigger than the WC? Where are the Saudi League team emblems... (Where is the Tottenham team emblem???? No one cares except me)

cmon left man.
This is much worse than a horrible try at a Super League without the backing of ANY fans of a city with soccer tradition.
So you were actually saying the Ronaldo effect is get paid for doing nothing that fans really care about?
Miami is at least a large city that likes it sports. Some people are watching who care. But there will never be Barcelona v. RM in the same way.
And its not Portugal v. Argentina either...

cmon left man you are better than this.

How's that different from European football? :lol

DAF86

08-26-2023, 01:43 PM

Remember when it was trendy to say that Ronaldo was a big game player and Messi was a small team stat padder? Good times :lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4S96xPWkAAsVi-?format=jpg&name=small

pgardn

08-26-2023, 02:07 PM

How's that different from European football? :lol

FANS...

Are you fkn serious.
Newcastle fans have been around for a very long time and the injection of money has been a huge deal for their rise.
A poorer NE England team with a shitload of fans for a very long time.

How is it different.... are you serious?

The money is an entirely different argument which I totally agree with.
Read my posts! What city team do you root for in Saudi Arabia?
You know their colors and traditions...

What Saudi team are you rooting for and what do you like about the city, fans, and their players?
I wish Sunderland could get some money as no one it FIFA are willing to stop with the dirty sources. Sunderland next for a handup of dirty money.

pgardn

08-26-2023, 06:05 PM

I should note that out of all the Euro teams, Germany seems the most willingly to solve the blood money problem in soccer ownership.
England is very willing to take the bucks. Big problem they deal with. England cant even solve some of their rich institutions still getting Russian money during a war.
Spain and Italy are very bad about it as well.

DAF86

08-26-2023, 09:38 PM

FANS...

Are you fkn serious.
Newcastle fans have been around for a very long time and the injection of money has been a huge deal for their rise.
A poorer NE England team with a shitload of fans for a very long time.

How is it different.... are you serious?

The money is an entirely different argument which I totally agree with.
Read my posts! What city team do you root for in Saudi Arabia?
You know their colors and traditions...

What Saudi team are you rooting for and what do you like about the city, fans, and their players?
I wish Sunderland could get some money as no one it FIFA are willing to stop with the dirty sources. Sunderland next for a handup of dirty money.

How are fans different in Europe and Saudi Arabia? :lol

Fans are fans everywhere and nobody has the right to judge the level of fandom, passion or loyalty.

Regarding which team I'm rooting for in Saudi Arabia, the same as in Europe: no one.

pgardn

08-27-2023, 08:38 AM

How are fans different in Europe and Saudi Arabia? :lol

Fans are fans everywhere and nobody has the right to judge the level of fandom, passion or loyalty.

Regarding which team I'm rooting for in Saudi Arabia, the same as in Europe: no one.

Good lord…

They are different because they exist in Europe.
Have you ever actually been to a game and sat in a seat?

Of course I have the right to judge. You make the rules on this board? This is in your face obvious.
It’s a fabricated league from oil money. You think there are millions of fans in cities around Saudi Arabia clamoring for a team in their city? Seriously? You think there is an actual huge market for teams created by the passion for soccer via millions of Saudis around their country?

Do you see other teams in 8 deep lower divisions some of which are registered with FIFA but contain no pros and some of which are semi pros. Do you see working men and women playing every weekend in these leagues FOR their own little town’s team? With neighbors and friends attending the games just because it’s people they know in their little town?

The Saudi league is NOTHING like the European leagues from a fan perspective nor a cultural perspective. Zero…

Now should I post a laughing emoji… Christ Almighty…

Ariel

08-27-2023, 11:46 AM

lefty

08-27-2023, 12:37 PM

Good lord…

They are different because they exist in Europe.
Have you ever actually been to a game and sat in a seat?

Of course I have the right to judge. You make the rules on this board? This is in your face obvious.
It’s a fabricated league from oil money. You think there are millions of fans in cities around Saudi Arabia clamoring for a team in their city? Seriously? You think there is an actual huge market for teams created by the passion for soccer via millions of Saudis around their country?

Do you see other teams in 8 deep lower divisions some of which are registered with FIFA but contain no pros and some of which are semi pros. Do you see working men and women playing every weekend in these leagues FOR their own little town’s team? With neighbors and friends attending the games just because it’s people they know in their little town?

The Saudi league is NOTHING like the European leagues from a fan perspective nor a cultural perspective. Zero…

Now should I post a laughing emoji… Christ Almighty…

There was a time European footy fans didn’t exist
Same thing in Saudi Arabia…they will be a legit footy fandom overtime like the Europeans have in the past

Footy fandom is not exclusive to a few continents and the sport doesn’t belong to them
Thinking otherwise is arrogant

DAF86

08-27-2023, 01:17 PM

Good lord…

They are different because they exist in Europe.
Have you ever actually been to a game and sat in a seat?

Of course I have the right to judge. You make the rules on this board? This is in your face obvious.
It’s a fabricated league from oil money. You think there are millions of fans in cities around Saudi Arabia clamoring for a team in their city? Seriously? You think there is an actual huge market for teams created by the passion for soccer via millions of Saudis around their country?

Do you see other teams in 8 deep lower divisions some of which are registered with FIFA but contain no pros and some of which are semi pros. Do you see working men and women playing every weekend in these leagues FOR their own little town’s team? With neighbors and friends attending the games just because it’s people they know in their little town?

The Saudi league is NOTHING like the European leagues from a fan perspective nor a cultural perspective. Zero…

Now should I post a laughing emoji… Christ Almighty…

What a weird ass take, tbh. :lol

Nobody is more passionate than fans in Southamerica, yet when Europe took all the best players from us nobody complained, tbh.

The Saudi league has been around for almost 2 decades before the Premier League. Most of it's teams are historied clubs with lots of years of existence, and people became fans of those clubs way before this new infussion of money. You aren't a better fan than an Al-Hilal supporter. Stop with your elitist bullshit.

pgardn

08-27-2023, 05:07 PM

There was a time European footy fans didn’t exist
Same thing in Saudi Arabia…they will be a legit footy fandom overtime like the Europeans have in the past

Footy fandom is not exclusive to a few continents and the sport doesn’t belong to them
Thinking otherwise is arrogant

I never said any country owned the sport. Thats called a straw man argument.
The game was invented in England, same with cricket. Is it some sort of strange argument to say that soccer has not caught on with fans in India while cricket has?
Soccer is not a big sport in India either. Right? Basketball is not ingrained and as popular in India either but it might catch on, someday...

I said European leagues have huge fan bases right now.
When the weather changes, and grass is everywhere with white balls getting kicked around in little Saudi Arabian towns across the country, then we can talk about the fan base.
Otherwise its just not comparable.
this is a silly argument.

pgardn

08-27-2023, 05:14 PM

What a weird ass take, tbh. :lol

Nobody is more passionate than fans in Southamerica, yet when Europe took all the best players from us nobody complained, tbh.

The Saudi league has been around for almost 2 decades before the Premier League. Most of it's teams are historied clubs with lots of years of existence, and people became fans of those clubs way before this new infussion of money. You aren't a better fan than an Al-Hilal supporter. Stop with your elitist bullshit.

Stop trying to compare the fan bases.
This is an absolutely silly argument.

Elitist bullshit? WTF? Saudi has all the money to make this happen. In Europe.
I did not say I was a "better" fan than a Hilal or whatever the fk you want to use. Better was NEVER used. Dont change the argument.
I said the European fan base is huge and culturally ingrained.
Horse racing is more culturally ingrained in Saudi Arabia than soccer. Its a silly argument in the present.
Soccer is also much more popular and culturally ingrained in South America as well.

Is this some sort of big Surprise? Should US citizens feel slighted because soccer is NOT a major sport. NO. Stop with the bullshit.

pgardn

08-27-2023, 05:17 PM

This is crazy.
Honestly weird to not see the obvious.

pgardn

08-27-2023, 05:28 PM

This is funny. Some of this is from the same people who said Beisbol in not a legitimate sport.
And then claim I am being elitist... So because baseball is not popular in Europe I am making an elitist statement...about a shitty sport as claimed by some soccer fans.
And I wont mention that Baseball is very popular in Central America and parts of Asia. Japan, Korea.... This would be tragic and prejudice.

Just imagine if Saudi tried to invent a golf league in their own country just using money? oh shit...

DAF86

08-27-2023, 06:51 PM

Stop trying to compare the fan bases.
This is an absolutely silly argument.

Elitist bullshit? WTF? Saudi has all the money to make this happen. In Europe.
I did not say I was a "better" fan than a Hilal or whatever the fk you want to use. Better was NEVER used. Dont change the argument.
I said the European fan base is huge and culturally ingrained.
Horse racing is more culturally ingrained in Saudi Arabia than soccer. Its a silly argument in the present.
Soccer is also much more popular and culturally ingrained in South America as well.

Is this some sort of big Surprise? Should US citizens feel slighted because soccer is NOT a major sport. NO. Stop with the bullshit.

Only when they started spending money to buy the best players from all around the World. Exactly the same shit Saudi is doing now. If somewhere down the road the Saudi league becomes the most powerful league in the World, you will see it's teams become very popular, with huge fanbases all around the globe.

You are crying for the same shit that Europe did back in the day. How do you not realize that?

lefty

08-27-2023, 07:07 PM

I never said any country owned the sport. Thats called a straw man argument.
The game was invented in England, same with cricket. Is it some sort of strange argument to say that soccer has not caught on with fans in India while cricket has?
Soccer is not a big sport in India either. Right? Basketball is not ingrained and as popular in India either but it might catch on, someday...

I said European leagues have huge fan bases right now.
When the weather changes, and grass is everywhere with white balls getting kicked around in little Saudi Arabian towns across the country, then we can talk about the fan base.
Otherwise its just not comparable.
this is a silly argument.

From what I’ve seen so far, their fans are awesome, great atmosphere in their stadiums, they are legit enjoying football tbh :lol

pgardn

08-27-2023, 08:26 PM

Only when they started spending money to buy the best players from all around the World. Exactly the same shit Saudi is doing now. If somewhere down the road the Saudi league becomes the most powerful league in the World, you will see it's teams become very popular, with huge fanbases all around the globe.

You are crying for the same shit that Europe did back in the day. How do you not realize that?

Its absolutely NOT exactly the same.
Europe had a shit ton of money AND a huge fan base. Ingrained from the 1880s England where soccer started as a company sport until, unsurprisingly, it got so popular the companies started buying players from around EUROPE because it spread all over Europe. Then it spread in popularity to South America.

Saudi Arabia has a TINY population that you think is going to replace the crowds you see at European games?
Thats is mind numbingly stupid. Its fabricated. In Europe it grew through POPULARITY among a LARGE population.

And now I get where you are coming from. Poor South America got its players taken.
I got a solution for you. South America could have a shit ton of games that would be very popular with massive crowds.
Why not get Saudi to by South American club teams? Where there is a waiting hungry population?

pgardn

08-27-2023, 08:35 PM

From what I’ve seen so far, their fans are awesome, great atmosphere in their stadiums, they are legit enjoying football tbh :lol

Fine. It still does not make Saudi Arabia like Europe or South America.

So a select number of rich guys get to sit in the box seats enjoying their games.
While in South America.... :(
Every Saudi born citizen has a job given to them and some dont even work and are just paid by the government.
Yet DAF is working the South America angle... a bit of hypocrisy going on here.

Why cant Estonia enjoy the same thing as the Saudi's? Its not fair :(

Bottom line: Saudi Arabia has a tiny population that is very rich and taking players like Mahrez who dont want to play top flight soccer, just want to get paid. Thats okay.
But its their own little aquarium and you understand this.

pgardn

08-27-2023, 08:42 PM

Leagues are built in a few main ways:
1) Bottom up (organically), with a genuine fan and players base, where the product is an accurate representation of their resources and it's sustainable long term. Probably European and South American leagues a few decades ago.
2) Top down (artificially), without a genuine fan and players base. where the product doesn't represent their resources and is dependent on a continual influx of external money. Clearly the Saudis case.
3) A mixed approach, where there is a real fan and player base, but the product is heavily influenced by external factors that may not be sustainable long term. Probably most European leagues nowadays, to varying degrees.
In this spectrum, I'd say the German league is a more genuine product, whereas the English league is undeniably distorted by the huge influx of external money (oil money from Saudis and the like, Asian tycoons from China, Russia or wherever). There is a real fan base, sure, but without all this money being thrown around they'd have nowhere near the amount of talent they currently have. The floor is much higher for the English, but there's a bubble there as well that can't be denied.

Only thing you forgot was US input of money into English leagues at multiple levels.
My bad, you did not forget it... you said wherever.
Agree at the EPL levels but still very organic at the lower levels of English football. These little towns are full of people who play on weekends under the FIFA banner and often without pay. They have a very organized system of promotion and relegation. But teams like Luton Town, who actually made the EPL, have been told they must have a larger stadium or they will be relegated.

DAF86

08-27-2023, 10:55 PM

Its absolutely NOT exactly the same.
Europe had a shit ton of money AND a huge fan base. Ingrained from the 1880s England where soccer started as a company sport until, unsurprisingly, it got so popular the companies started buying players from around EUROPE because it spread all over Europe. Then it spread in popularity to South America.

Saudi Arabia has a TINY population that you think is going to replace the crowds you see at European games?
Thats is mind numbingly stupid. Its fabricated. In Europe it grew through POPULARITY among a LARGE population.

And now I get where you are coming from. Poor South America got its players taken.
I got a solution for you. South America could have a shit ton of games that would be very popular with massive crowds.
Why not get Saudi to by South American club teams? Where there is a waiting hungry population?

Saudi Arabia has a bigger population than 90% of the European countries, the fuck are you talking about? :lol

Dude, you are making no sense at all. You are being a spoiled emotional little baby over this whole thing. Your point is basically " :cry :madrun I only like it when European teams are the ones that get to buy all the best players, when somebody else does it, it's wrong :madrun :cry"

ElNono

08-28-2023, 04:26 AM

what "discussion"?

lefty

08-28-2023, 07:39 AM

Fine. It still does not make Saudi Arabia like Europe or South America.

So a select number of rich guys get to sit in the box seats enjoying their games.
While in South America.... :(
Every Saudi born citizen has a job given to them and some dont even work and are just paid by the government.
Yet DAF is working the South America angle... a bit of hypocrisy going on here.

Why cant Estonia enjoy the same thing as the Saudi's? Its not fair :(

Bottom line: Saudi Arabia has a tiny population that is very rich and taking players like Mahrez who dont want to play top flight soccer, just want to get paid. Thats okay.
But its their own little aquarium and you understand this.
“fire”

It’s not just fire, stop lying :lol

lefty

08-28-2023, 07:41 AM

what "discussion"?

Agreed
Messi and ronaldo are nowhere near team leaders Scaloni, Dibu, Scottish dude, Leandro and Alpharez tbh

lefty

08-28-2023, 07:42 AM

pgardn

08-28-2023, 11:32 AM

Saudi Arabia has a bigger population than 90% of the European countries, the fuck are you talking about? :lol

Dude, you are making no sense at all. You are being a spoiled emotional little baby over this whole thing. Your point is basically " :cry :madrun I only like it when European teams are the ones that get to buy all the best players, when somebody else does it, it's wrong :madrun :cry"

so disingenuous

There are 4 giant leagues in Europe.
Italy, France, Germany, and England.
ALL have a population larger than Saudi Arabia.
So you use countries like Lichtenstein to count towards the 90%, bravo.

And all 4 of those have an ingrained soccer playing population from youth leagues to adult leagues.
The US has a population much larger than Saudi Arabia doing the same thing, taking the old retired players and picking them off.
Saudi Arabia is NOT taking the best players from Europe dumbshit. wtf are you talking about?
Thats part of why its fabricated. Old players go to die there. And part of why the MLS is NOT considered a great place for European development.

Be real. Your are just teasing tiny hairs out of a giant rug.

pgardn

08-28-2023, 11:37 AM

“fire”

It’s not just fire, stop lying :lol

wtf... FIRE?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExM28xdXI0N3dmbTUxamxqNjNuYTJqZXp qanQxYzljOXpvanJ4eW52YyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/gh6gFVh35jyzNvHegl/giphy.gif

pgardn

08-28-2023, 11:43 AM

I have excited the hate for Europe I see.

A little sensitivity I did not know about...

pgardn

08-28-2023, 11:48 AM

what "discussion"?

Its not over either.
Just took a wild left turn.

DAF86

08-28-2023, 05:51 PM

so disingenuous

There are 4 giant leagues in Europe.
Italy, France, Germany, and England.
ALL have a population larger than Saudi Arabia.
So you use countries like Lichtenstein to count towards the 90%, bravo.

And all 4 of those have an ingrained soccer playing population from youth leagues to adult leagues.
The US has a population much larger than Saudi Arabia doing the same thing, taking the old retired players and picking them off.
Saudi Arabia is NOT taking the best players from Europe dumbshit. wtf are you talking about?
Thats part of why its fabricated. Old players go to die there. And part of why the MLS is NOT considered a great place for European development.

Be real. Your are just teasing tiny hairs out of a giant rug.

Neymar isn't one of the best players in the World now? :lol

Mané, Mahrez, Firmino, Mendy, Kante, Benzema, Bono are all very good to elite players that can still easily play on Europe, but decided to go to Sudi Arabia. Gabri Veira, one of the most promising Spanish players, went there with 21 years.

If it were true that only semi-retired players went to Saudi, folks like you wouldn't be bitching now, since old players going to these type of leagues was always a thing. The reason people complain now is precisely because very good players still on a young age are going there.

DAF86

08-28-2023, 05:53 PM

I have excited the hate for Europe I see.

A little sensitivity I did not know about...

There's no hate, tbh, just stating a pretty obvious fact. It boggles my mind how you can't realize the double standard in your reasoning. :lol

pgardn

08-28-2023, 08:23 PM

There's no hate, tbh, just stating a pretty obvious fact. It boggles my mind how you can't realize the double standard in your reasoning. :lol

Sure there is.

There is a double standard because you are thinking $ while I am writing about FANS.
The guys like Mahrez and Neymar are going for a pay check, not competition, be real.
And there is nothing wrong with that.
UEFA has the best club teams and the best players by far.

As well as the most ardent passionate fans which is the crux of the argument you cant get.
South America also has some great rivalries going with great fans without the money.
What are the giant Darbys in Saudi Arabia? Where is River Plate v Boca Juniors? What is it in Saudi Arabia? Where is the Real Madrid v. Barca and the Liverpool v. Man U?

pgardn

08-28-2023, 08:46 PM

Maybe Saudi Arabia should place one big team in the East that is basically Shia Muslim since the majority of the country is Sunni.
Then they could have a death darby based on religion like Rangers and Celtic.

DAF86

08-28-2023, 10:16 PM

Sure there is.

There is a double standard because you are thinking $ while I am writing about FANS.
The guys like Mahrez and Neymar are going for a pay check, not competition, be real.
And there is nothing wrong with that.
UEFA has the best club teams and the best players by far.

As well as the most ardent passionate fans which is the crux of the argument you cant get.
South America also has some great rivalries going with great fans without the money.
What are the giant Darbys in Saudi Arabia? Where is River Plate v Boca Juniors? What is it in Saudi Arabia? Where is the Real Madrid v. Barca and the Liverpool v. Man U?

But the fans argument is entirely subjective. Here in South America we laugh at how cold and passionless European football fans are compared to us, but we don't bitch about them taking all our best players. It's just the way the market works. Same thing happens with Saudi Arabia, if they now become the league with the most money, they will sooner or later become the best league in the World, and the fan base will grow as more and more elite player join that league.

To be completely honest, I've seen a couple of Saudi League games and the atmosphere is exactly the same as in Europe, if not better, tbh.

lefty

08-29-2023, 08:50 AM

Neymar isn't one of the best players in the World now? :lol

Mané, Mahrez, Firmino, Mendy, Kante, Benzema, Bono are all very good to elite players that can still easily play on Europe, but decided to go to Sudi Arabia. Gabri Veira, one of the most promising Spanish players, went there with 21 years.

If it were true that only semi-retired players went to Saudi, folks like you wouldn't be bitching now, since old players going to these type of leagues was always a thing. The reason people complain now is precisely because very good players still on a young age are going there.
True true

pgardn

08-30-2023, 10:17 AM

True true

I don’t use the MLS and the Saudi League to justify the play of the lappers of players that are not stars anymore.
Btw Benzema may be leaving. And if Neymar stays, he is wasting his career. He knows this from a recognition as a great player perspective. You want to play the best. Neymar could not get it done from a club perspective. From a $ point of view he can’t be blamed.

pgardn

08-30-2023, 10:26 AM

But the fans argument is entirely subjective. Here in South America we laugh at how cold and passionless European football fans are compared to us, but we don't bitch about them taking all our best players. It's just the way the market works. Same thing happens with Saudi Arabia, if they now become the league with the most money, they will sooner or later become the best league in the World, and the fan base will grow as more and more elite player join that league.

To be completely honest, I've seen a couple of Saudi League games and the atmosphere is exactly the same as in Europe, if not better, tbh.

There are some places with cold passionless fans. But on the whole if the FANS don’t show the team goes down the tube.
As a fan I’m going to GO to European and South American games long before a game in Saudi Arabia. I would much rather see an established rivalry with generational fans. And this is the point you can’t seem to grasp.

Start a Saudi League thread with lefty. The soccer forum should just light up.

DAF86

08-30-2023, 07:19 PM

There are some places with cold passionless fans. But on the whole if the FANS don’t show the team goes down the tube.
As a fan I’m going to GO to European and South American games long before a game in Saudi Arabia. I would much rather see an established rivalry with generational fans. And this is the point you can’t seem to grasp.

Start a Saudi League thread with lefty. The soccer forum should just light up.

If Europe didn't have the leagues with the most money, nobody outside Europe would give a fuck about rivalries in Europe, just like nobody gives a fuck about Southamerican rivalries, despite being just as, if not more, historied and generational than the European ones.

If Saudi becomes the most powerful league in the World, more and more people will start watching, and the history and narratives will be made over time.

City was a small relegation team not too long ago, now they are the best team in the World and fans all around the globe tune in to watch them play.

pgardn

08-31-2023, 07:20 AM

If Europe didn't have the leagues with the most money, nobody outside Europe would give a fuck about rivalries in Europe, just like nobody gives a fuck about Southamerican rivalries, despite being just as, if not more, historied and generational than the European ones.

If Saudi becomes the most powerful league in the World, more and more people will start watching, and the history and narratives will be made over time.

City was a small relegation team not too long ago, now they are the best team in the World and fans all around the globe tune in to watch them play.

City ALWAYS had fans in England.
They got fans worldwide with the injection of money.
Saudi might be.... sure yes sure... Are you going to find enough grass and stadiums. This is also part of the equation. Places where football broke out always had grass and rain. Then little city streets for small skill games.

I am once again talking about NOW. Your projection into the future just BECAUSE OF MONEY is on you. Soccer was huge in Europe city against city organically. And this, if you go back to the beginning of the silliness, is what I am saying. Playing up a league because your favorite players go there is on you and their pocketbook.

Where do you stream these games, what service?

DAF86

08-31-2023, 04:07 PM

City ALWAYS had fans in England.

Just like all the Suadi teams have always had fans in Saudi.

I am once again talking about NOW. Your projection into the future just BECAUSE OF MONEY is on you.

But that's an unfair comparisson. European football NOW has already conalized the global market thanks to years and years of injecting money. Nobody gave a fuck about European football, outside of Europe, before the Bosman law.

Soccer was huge in Europe city against city organically.

Just like football was huge organically in Saudi Arabia too for Suadi Arabia fans even before they started spending money in big name stars.

FrostKing

08-31-2023, 04:30 PM

DAF, your OP has truth to it. In a 500+ years this artificial soccer culture could bloom into reality

Couple issues
- They need to generate their own home stars. Like megastars. This will result in these Leagues being located in World Cup competitors

- the Climate. It never changes. Boring for a sport that is year round

- the Politics. The biggest Leagues in Europe are in the most free societies.

pgardn

08-31-2023, 07:43 PM

pgardn

08-31-2023, 07:44 PM

DAF86

08-31-2023, 08:29 PM

This is pure and simply wrong and bullshit.
A Royal Family has decided they will have this sport.
But horse racing and professional Golf are also on the top of the list and grown organically in Saudi Arabia.

gtfoh…

You're being too emotionally obtuse to see the bigger and real picture. You sound like old farts here in South America when Europeans started buying all of our stars. They would say the same type of shit you are saying now:

"These talentless euros are stealing all of our players to play on that plastic football with their boring fans. They are killing football".

Fast forward to today, football has never been bigger. If Saudi Arabia becomes the most powerful league in the World, it will be exactly the same, only better. More options to watch elite football. They aren't killing shit. Same thing if the MLS ever becomes elite.

pgardn

09-02-2023, 10:20 AM

You're being too emotionally obtuse to see the bigger and real picture. You sound like old farts here in South America when Europeans started buying all of our stars. They would say the same type of shit you are saying now:

"These talentless euros are stealing all of our players to play on that plastic football with their boring fans. They are killing football".

Fast forward to today, football has never been bigger. If Saudi Arabia becomes the most powerful league in the World, it will be exactly the same, only better. More options to watch elite football. They aren't killing shit. Same thing if the MLS ever becomes elite.

It’s NOT elite football nor will it be imo. And you have no idea what obtuse means. Go back and read MY argument. Not your prejudices.

Again you don’t know Saudi Arabia at all.

You don’t know the conditions it takes to have good football. Football in the desert comes naturally just like golf and horse racing?
By your analysis the EPL should start dying “because all the good footballers are going elsewhere” Except they are NOT. The EPL has never been more popular.

There is more of a chance of having a good football team in Sunderland with the injection of money. Established fan base very hungry. Actual rivalries with many local teams.

Wait a hundred more years with climate change, grass growing all over Saudi Arabias huge land mass, and people moving there and we will talk from our graves. Good lord… this is stupid. “Saudi is an organic product …” no it’s perfectly NOT…

DAF86

09-02-2023, 07:37 PM

It’s NOT elite football nor will it be imo. And you have no idea what obtuse means. Go back and read MY argument. Not your prejudices.

Again you don’t know Saudi Arabia at all.

You don’t know the conditions it takes to have good football. Football in the desert comes naturally just like golf and horse racing?
By your analysis the EPL should start dying “because all the good footballers are going elsewhere” Except they are NOT. The EPL has never been more popular.

There is more of a chance of having a good football team in Sunderland with the injection of money. Established fan base very hungry. Actual rivalries with many local teams.

Wait a hundred more years with climate change, grass growing all over Saudi Arabias huge land mass, and people moving there and we will talk from our graves. Good lord… this is stupid. “Saudi is an organic product …” no it’s perfectly NOT…

Dude, you're all over the place. Can't even (or don't want to) understand the point I'm making. Not worth keep arguing this with you, tbh.

P/S: the only one with prejudices here is you. "Saudi Arabia can't have a decent football league" :lol

Hoops Czar

09-04-2023, 12:00 AM

Just like all the Suadi teams have always had fans in Saudi.

But that's an unfair comparisson. European football NOW has already conalized the global market thanks to years and years of injecting money. Nobody gave a fuck about European football, outside of Europe, before the Bosman law.

Just like football was huge organically in Saudi Arabia too for Suadi Arabia fans even before they started spending money in big name stars.

Europe basically invented the game of soccer in the 1800s.. The financial superiority of Europe over other continents like Asia, Africa and South America were profound however, South American players flocked to Europe because of the competition and exposure as well as money. It had nothing to do with Bosman's law, but more to do with the growth of television and the internet. Europe had infused a lot of money into technology, science, training and education in a way that no other football culture has done. They aren't the best simply because they buy up all the talent. Europe has won the FIFA WC 12 out of 21 times since the the early 1900's. Champions league, evolving in 1955, is the most viewed sporting event in the world behind the World Cup, absolutely smashing the Super bowl's best ever ratings. There are also more clubs, and tiers of European football allowing for more growth and opportunity at a very young age. If Saudi is serious about soccer the way they are about cricket, they'll need to build soccer into their culture and spend less time trying to persuade European's to play soccer in Saudi Arabia by handing them blank checks.

I also found it cute that Saudi Arabia made a bid to UEFA to be a wild card team in champions league before being shot down by the UEFA president. And then he compared the SPL to the Chinese League....

https://www.marca.com/en/football/champions-league/2023/08/31/64f06644ca4741c65f8b45e1.html

DAF86

09-04-2023, 10:50 AM

Europe basically invented the game of soccer in the 1800s.. The financial superiority of Europe over other continents like Asia, Africa and South America were profound however, South American players flocked to Europe because of the competition and exposure as well as money. It had nothing to do with Bosman's law, but more to do with the growth of television and the internet. Europe had infused a lot of money into technology, science, training and education in a way that no other football culture has done. They aren't the best simply because they buy up all the talent. Europe has won the FIFA WC 12 out of 21 times since the the early 1900's. Champions league, evolving in 1955, is the most viewed sporting event in the world behind the World Cup, absolutely smashing the Super bowl's best ever ratings. There are also more clubs, and tiers of European football allowing for more growth and opportunity at a very young age. If Saudi is serious about soccer the way they are about cricket, they'll need to build soccer into their culture and spend less time trying to persuade European's to play soccer in Saudi Arabia by handing them blank checks.

I also found it cute that Saudi Arabia made a bid to UEFA to be a wild card team in champions league before being shot down by the UEFA president. And then he compared the SPL to the Chinese League....

https://www.marca.com/en/football/champions-league/2023/08/31/64f06644ca4741c65f8b45e1.html

Europe didn't win 12 out of 21 WCs, they won 12 out of 22, with South America winning the other 10, despite being only 10 countries in Conmebol.

Originally, South Americans didn't go to Europe because of the competition. The level was the same, or in even better, in South America. They went to Europe strictly because of the money, just like players are doing now with Suadi Arabia. Eventually, with years and years of buying all the best players from all around the globe (aspect in which the Bosman law played a huge role), yeah, European football inevitably became the highest level of competition. The same thing that can happen if Saudi Arabia keeps atracting talent with their huge contracts.

If Saudi Arabia ever becomes the best league in the World it will be exactly for the same reason Europe did: Economic power. Simple as that.

FrostKing

09-04-2023, 11:17 AM

DAF, you truly believe it's just the money?

Bleak opinion of the game brother

DAF86

09-04-2023, 02:34 PM

DAF, you truly believe it's just the money?

Bleak opinion of the game brother

Yes, the only reason the Champions League is more watched than Copa Libertadores is because of money. If South America were the one with the money instead of Europe we would be talking about River, boca, Flamengo, Corinthians, Nacional and Peñarol instead of Real Madrid, Barcelona and City.

Now that Messi and Ronaldo are playing in the US and SA, those leagues are being watched more than ever. It is the players that move the ratings, not the teams. And players go where the money is.

FrostKing

09-04-2023, 04:33 PM

Yes, the only reason the Champions League is more watched than Copa Libertadores is because of money. If South America were the one with the money instead of Europe we would be talking about River, boca, Flamengo, Corinthians, Nacional and Peñarol instead of Real Madrid, Barcelona and City.

Now that Messi and Ronaldo are playing in the US and SA, those leagues are being watched more than ever. It is the players that move the ratings, not the teams. And players go where the money is.
Well its TV rights that draw in the average fan

There aren't enough stars to headline every team that's where reputation and pass glory sells

Money is indeed the largest piece of the pie but there are other intangibles that a Arab might never reach. For all we know this might be a bubble and teams sooner than later start facing big financial losses.

pgardn

09-04-2023, 08:42 PM

Dude, you're all over the place. Can't even (or don't want to) understand the point I'm making. Not worth keep arguing this with you, tbh.

P/S: the only one with prejudices here is you. "Saudi Arabia can't have a decent football league" :lol

IM ALL OVER the place. :nope
You cant admit the obvious.

What point are you trying to make?
Because when this started I said soccer began in EUROPE, specifically ENGLAND, and spread to other places. You said yes only because money and asserted it was organically grown in Saudi Arabia which is bullshit. Its as organic as GOLF, which the Saudis ALSO have tried to get an audience via $. They have tried to export the game of golf via TV the SAME way. Like a giant desert is full of golf courses... Of course Saudi Arabia is allowed to have its own league made up of old fading players and players who want to get paid and dont care about playing against the best in the world.

You dont have a clue.

This seems like this is your own "Im a little South American and I got steamrolled by money argument" And you dont even care about club football so just stop for God's sake. I fkn root for Tottenham and have gotten thoroughly trounced by English and Spanish Clubs with access to better players. I know its not entirely fair. But I became a fan knowing it is not a game that was created to be fair financially even though some claim they try to be fair.

If fan participation and cultural proclivity towards a game deserve money then South America definitely deserves an influx of money to start a league that could really compete with Europe on the club level. NOT SAUDI ARABIA. This is basically what MY point would "hopefully" result in. You see something wrong with that? Why doesnt Saudi Royal Family (something you have completely overlooked) spend money on club teams in South America and help an organic passionate fan base? The South Americans adopted the game readily for pretty obvious reasons and became equals if not better than the Europeans. Are you going to now claim that Saudi has as many people as Brazil or Argentina like you did with European countries and your silly 90% rule?

Hoops Czar

09-04-2023, 08:54 PM

Europe didn't win 12 out of 21 WCs, they won 12 out of 22, with South America winning the other 10, despite being only 10 countries in Conmebol.

Originally, South Americans didn't go to Europe because of the competition. The level was the same, or in even better, in South America. They went to Europe strictly because of the money, just like players are doing now with Suadi Arabia. Eventually, with years and years of buying all the best players from all around the globe (aspect in which the Bosman law played a huge role), yeah, European football inevitably became the highest level of competition. The same thing that can happen if Saudi Arabia keeps atracting talent with their huge contracts.

If Saudi Arabia ever becomes the best league in the World it will be exactly for the same reason Europe did: Economic power. Simple as that.

My point about the 12 WC victories was to prove that Europe had a lot of homegrown talent that they developed, trained and educated, not that they bought out South America to become the juggernaut that they are today. And for those keeping tabs, Saudi Arabia's best ever WC finish was in 1994 where they reached the round of 16, the one and only time they qualified for the knock out stages. Also, outside of the EPL, PSG and Real Madrid, who in Europe has money to spend? You'd think if Dortmund had money, they would have been able to hold on to one of Bellingham or Haaland. Girona? RB Leipzig? Union Berlin? Monaco? Lyon? Valencia?

And for all it's glory, The Saudi Pro League is the 27th best league in the world, sandwiched between the South Korean K League 1 and Israeli Premier League despite it's mega millions budget and European signings. Hell, the English Championship, England's second tier league, is actually ranked 6th.

https://www.givemesport.com/what-are-the-best-leagues-in-the-world/

(https://www.givemesport.com/what-are-the-best-leagues-in-the-world/)I think Europe has always had a slight advantage over South America but even if they were 1A to South America's 1B, that still puts them at or near the very top, not like Saudi Arabia, who aren't even on the map yet. If Saudi Arabia wants to be taken seriously as a football powerhouse, they need to develop and invest in their own because the idea of spending large sums of money to lure world footballers to the desert will only get you so far.

Hoops Czar

09-04-2023, 09:01 PM

Yes, the only reason the Champions League is more watched than Copa Libertadores is because of money. If South America were the one with the money instead of Europe we would be talking about River, boca, Flamengo, Corinthians, Nacional and Peñarol instead of Real Madrid, Barcelona and City.

Now that Messi and Ronaldo are playing in the US and SA, those leagues are being watched more than ever. It is the players that move the ratings, not the teams. And players go where the money is.

Well, Inter Miami has a cult following but the rest of the MLS is mostly meh, to put it kindly. Where can you catch a SA stream these days?

pgardn

09-04-2023, 09:05 PM

Well, Inter Miami has a cult following but the rest of the MLS is mostly meh, to put it kindly. Where can you catch a SA stream these days?

I asked about that and got nothing for an answer.

Hoops Czar

09-04-2023, 11:50 PM

I asked about that and got nothing for an answer.

Apparently, Fox Sports picked up the Saudi Pro League rights in the US. Games are only available on FS2 and Fox Deportes. Coincidentally, Do you know how many Saudi fans were in attendance to see Ronaldo net his 850th career goal in Al Nassr's 5-1 victory over Al Hazem? 12,297 passionate fans :lol. Even worse, do you know how many fans were in attendance to see Al Khaleej beat Al Shabab 3-1? 987 :lol. Just ruthless! The Saudi Gov't forgot to notify its fan-base that the Saudi Pro league has European soccer players now.

DAF86

09-05-2023, 12:22 AM

My point about the 12 WC victories was to prove that Europe had a lot of homegrown talent that they developed, trained and educated, not that they bought out South America to become the juggernaut that they are today. And for those keeping tabs, Saudi Arabia's best ever WC finish was in 1994 where they reached the round of 16, the one and only time they qualified for the knock out stages. Also, outside of the EPL, PSG and Real Madrid, who in Europe has money to spend? You'd think if Dortmund had money, they would have been able to hold on to one of Bellingham or Haaland. Girona? RB Leipzig? Union Berlin? Monaco? Lyon? Valencia?

And for all it's glory, The Saudi Pro League is the 27th best league in the world, sandwiched between the South Korean K League 1 and Israeli Premier League despite it's mega millions budget and European signings. Hell, the English Championship, England's second tier league, is actually ranked 6th.

https://www.givemesport.com/what-are-the-best-leagues-in-the-world/

(https://www.givemesport.com/what-are-the-best-leagues-in-the-world/)I think Europe has always had a slight advantage over South America but even if they were 1A to South America's 1B, that still puts them at or near the very top, not like Saudi Arabia, who aren't even on the map yet. If Saudi Arabia wants to be taken seriously as a football powerhouse, they need to develop and invest in their own because the idea of spending large sums of money to lure world footballers to the desert will only get you so far.

While money wasn't an issue, South America always had the edge over Europe. More WC's and more Club WC's. Once Europe started getting all the best players in their leagues, the thing changed. You have an advantage when your home grown players get to play with the best in the World week in and week out. It is really a testament to the level of South American football how they manage to keep international ball competitive with that huge disadvantage.

This injection of international talent will only help Saudi Arabia to develop their home grown players.

DAF86

09-05-2023, 12:25 AM

Well its TV rights that draw in the average fan

There aren't enough stars to headline every team that's where reputation and pass glory sells

Money is indeed the largest piece of the pie but there are other intangibles that a Arab might never reach. For all we know this might be a bubble and teams sooner than later start facing big financial losses.

Sure, I'm not saying this Sudi Arabia tactic is gonna work. All I'm saying that nobody should cry about Saudi's ruining football. It's what Europe did and it's just how the market works. Deal with it.

Hoops Czar

09-05-2023, 03:45 PM

While money wasn't an issue, South America always had the edge over Europe. More WC's and more Club WC's. Once Europe started getting all the best players in their leagues, the thing changed. You have an advantage when your home grown players get to play with the best in the World week in and week out. It is really a testament to the level of South American football how they manage to keep international ball competitive with that huge disadvantage.

This injection of international talent will only help Saudi Arabia to develop their home grown players.

It wasn't until the liberalisation and globalization of the transfer market in the 90's did South Americans flock to Europe to play for money. In the early years, the Football Association introduced a regulation stating that no professional player was allowed to play unless he registered annually with the FA, nor could he switch clubs without the FA's permission. Later on, a new rule was introduced insisting that any player who wanted to change clubs could only do so with the approval of their present club. Clubs could exclusively hold the registration of a player they had signed for as long as they wanted him, even if his contract had expired. There were also regulations preventing the signing of players from outside the club's locality. The rule was later broadened to allow other English players to join, but many leagues limited the number of foreign nationals that could play for the club. The players had very little rights and whether they wanted to play in Europe for money, it was out of their control.

https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/33989
(https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/33989)
Europe won three of the first five WCs and those are indicative of homegrown talent rather than international talent. Sure, being around great players helps but Europe had great players too. But this is a distraction from the original discussion of Saudi Arabia being no different than Europe. Europe is and always has been a super power in world football, SA has accomplished absolutely nothing. No trophies, hardware, diplomas of recognition or plaques of honor. Saudi Arabia and Europe both have money, that's where the similarities end. And despite their Financial clout and for all this hype surrounding the up and coming Saudi Pro League, the fan base hasn't bought in yet because they're struggling to fill their 25,000 seat stadiums beyond 50%-60% of capacity.

pgardn

09-05-2023, 05:17 PM

Sure, I'm not saying this Sudi Arabia tactic is gonna work. All I'm saying that nobody should cry about Saudi's ruining football. It's what Europe did and it's just how the market works. Deal with it.

Saudi Arabia is not ruining football. You are the one that claimed they are getting all the good players, not me.
They just are not a football country yet.
Where did you come up with this BS. You are completely changed your argument.

They have a few good younger players from European Club teams that want to get paid. More older ones that were tired of Europe and wanted to get paid.
Nothing wrong with that. The Saudi family takes oil money from big rich countries and spend it freely. they paid Donald Trump's son in law 2 billion dollars.
They did basically the same thing with golf and horse racing, although in golf in caused much much more of an uproar.

DAF86

09-06-2023, 10:45 AM

It wasn't until the liberalisation and globalization of the transfer market in the 90's did South Americans flock to Europe to play for money. In the early years, the Football Association introduced a regulation stating that no professional player was allowed to play unless he registered annually with the FA, nor could he switch clubs without the FA's permission. Later on, a new rule was introduced insisting that any player who wanted to change clubs could only do so with the approval of their present club. Clubs could exclusively hold the registration of a player they had signed for as long as they wanted him, even if his contract had expired. There were also regulations preventing the signing of players from outside the club's locality. The rule was later broadened to allow other English players to join, but many leagues limited the number of foreign nationals that could play for the club. The players had very little rights and whether they wanted to play in Europe for money, it was out of their control.

https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/33989
(https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/33989)
Europe won three of the first five WCs and those are indicative of homegrown talent rather than international talent. Sure, being around great players helps but Europe had great players too. But this is a distraction from the original discussion of Saudi Arabia being no different than Europe. Europe is and always has been a super power in world football, SA has accomplished absolutely nothing. No trophies, hardware, diplomas of recognition or plaques of honor. Saudi Arabia and Europe both have money, that's where the similarities end. And despite their Financial clout and for all this hype surrounding the up and coming Saudi Pro League, the fan base hasn't bought in yet because they're struggling to fill their 25,000 seat stadiums beyond 50%-60% of capacity.

So? That doesn't mean "football is going to die" if Saudi Arabia manges to built the strongest league in the World. In any case, football will grow.

DAF86

09-06-2023, 10:50 AM

Saudi Arabia is not ruining football. You are the one that claimed they are getting all the good players, not me.
They just are not a football country yet.
Where did you come up with this BS. You are completely changed your argument.

They have a few good younger players from European Club teams that want to get paid. More older ones that were tired of Europe and wanted to get paid.
Nothing wrong with that. The Saudi family takes oil money from big rich countries and spend it freely. they paid Donald Trump's son in law 2 billion dollars.
They did basically the same thing with golf and horse racing, although in golf in caused much much more of an uproar.

I don't know if specifically you, but there are lots of people worrying about the Saudi League becoming bigger and bigger and taking the best players out of Europe. If that happens, people shouldn't complain, because this is exactly the same way that the top 3 or 4 European leagues became the strongest in the World. That's all I'm saying.

Brazil

09-18-2023, 08:22 AM

DAF86

09-18-2023, 10:20 AM

Their potential is very limited, they have like 20 m habitants, no structure, no history, no nothing. they will develop some home grown players but with a limited, won't make any difference.

You also forget to mention that South America is also successful because the best players play in Europe under European structure, coaching etc... that has no equivalent in the world. It goes both way. South American leagues are just awful, it is corrupted to the highest point, nepotism is everywhere... Santos is going to play in second division and basically is bankrupted 10 years after selling robinho, neymar, ganso etc...

Not sure what kind of argument you are making

My argument is pretty clear, tbh: Europeans crying "Saudi's are gonna kill football with all their spending" are lacking self awareness, since European teams did the same shit.

Brazil

09-18-2023, 01:13 PM

My argument is pretty clear, tbh: Europeans crying "Saudi's are gonna kill football with all their spending" are lacking self awareness, since European teams did the same shit.

Not sure who is crying about it... I personnally don't care, Ronaldo is done, Neymar good riddance, Karim had probably another good year but that's about it, the rest is not very impactful anyway.

Now I think that South Amercia has more to loose than Europe tbh.... young and mid age players are signing there. The level of domestic championships is gonna suffer like the Libertadores that is already pretty bad.

DAF86

09-18-2023, 03:20 PM

Not sure who is crying about it... I personnally don't care, Ronaldo is done, Neymar good riddance, Karim had probably another good year but that's about it, the rest is not very impactful anyway.

Now I think that South Amercia has more to loose than Europe tbh.... young and mid age players are signing there. The level of domestic championships is gonna suffer like the Libertadores that is already pretty bad.

If you don't care why are you arguing? :lol

Who's crying? A lot of folks in the media, the internet and even people within football. Tony Kroos send a message saying "pathetic" when a young promising kid from Betis decided to sign with a Saudi team.

In South America we are used to losing all our best players, it is the people in power in Europe that are worried about losing all that bandwagoning fandom if all the best players start going elsewhere. They have already lost quite a bit of viewership with Messi going to the MLS and Ronaldo going to Sudi Arabia.

Brazil

09-19-2023, 08:57 AM

If you don't care why are you arguing? :lol

Who's crying? A lot of folks in the media, the internet and even people within football. Tony Kroos send a message saying "pathetic" when a young promising kid from Betis decided to sign with a Saudi team.

In South America we are used to losing all our best players, it is the people in power in Europe that are worried about losing all that bandwagoning fandom if all the best players start going elsewhere. They have already lost quite a bit of viewership with Messi going to the MLS and Ronaldo going to Sudi Arabia.

:lol I'm not arguing about Saudi Arabia buying players, as I said I don't care. I was giving my two cents on some of your comments. For the rest some european media crying about that is pretty rich indeed, I agree.

The fact that in SA you get used to lose players doesn't mean it is without consequences, as I stated the level of play is already quite horrific and this is not gonna to help

Phenomanul

09-23-2023, 02:50 PM

My point about the 12 WC victories was to prove that Europe had a lot of homegrown talent that they developed, trained and educated, not that they bought out South America to become the juggernaut that they are today. And for those keeping tabs, Saudi Arabia's best ever WC finish was in 1994 where they reached the round of 16, the one and only time they qualified for the knock out stages. Also, outside of the EPL, PSG and Real Madrid, who in Europe has money to spend? You'd think if Dortmund had money, they would have been able to hold on to one of Bellingham or Haaland. Girona? RB Leipzig? Union Berlin? Monaco? Lyon? Valencia?

And for all it's glory, The Saudi Pro League is the 27th best league in the world, sandwiched between the South Korean K League 1 and Israeli Premier League despite it's mega millions budget and European signings. Hell, the English Championship, England's second tier league, is actually ranked 6th.

https://www.givemesport.com/what-are-the-best-leagues-in-the-world/

(https://www.givemesport.com/what-are-the-best-leagues-in-the-world/)I think Europe has always had a slight advantage over South America but even if they were 1A to South America's 1B, that still puts them at or near the very top, not like Saudi Arabia, who aren't even on the map yet. If Saudi Arabia wants to be taken seriously as a football powerhouse, they need to develop and invest in their own because the idea of spending large sums of money to lure world footballers to the desert will only get you so far.

Ummm that league ranking list is very suspect... There's no way MLS is ranked 7 spots above Mexican Liga MX. Most every tournament that the CONCACAF Club Teams have gone at each other it is usually a Mexican team that lifts the cup. Just saying. Besides the Mexican League has far more storied clubs.

Allan Rowe vs Wade

09-24-2023, 07:55 PM

Imagine getting this excited arguing about a game where you can't use your hands

lefty

09-25-2023, 09:16 AM

Imagine getting this excited arguing about a game where you can't use your hands
Allan gets excited by a game where he can use his hands tbh

pgardn

09-25-2023, 05:22 PM

Allan gets excited by a game where he can use his hands tbh

Lefty d you still live in Canada?
When I went up to Toronto and then took the train to smaller lake region (Smith Falls) I learned some info I never knew and would like to ask your opinion on some interesting things after meeting some Sihks from Punjab province in India.

lefty

09-26-2023, 01:08 PM

Lefty d you still live in Canada?
When I went up to Toronto and then took the train to smaller lake region (Smith Falls) I learned some info I never knew and would like to ask your opinion on some interesting things after meeting some Sihks from Punjab province in India.
I live in Montreal

I've been to Toronto a couple of times but I'm not really familiar with the area tbh
I'm not familiar with Indians either :lol

pgardn

09-26-2023, 03:52 PM

I live in Montreal

I've been to Toronto a couple of times but I'm not really familiar with the area tbh
I'm not familiar with Indians either :lol

You have a huge immigrant population.
Especially in Toronto. I was transfixed after going there before the Canadian government accused the Indian government of assassinating a Sihk Canadian leader within Canada. I had no idea about all that this incident involved. It’s quite complex as I was compelled to read about it and now understand why some of the questions I was asking while in Canada got strange unexpected responses. If I have a little time I don’t waste it. I find a way to talk to people in new places.

So carry on.
Do you know French?

And the Canadians are still some of the most polite people I have ever met. I guess need to go to a trailer park to find someone different.

lefty

09-27-2023, 08:57 AM

You have a huge immigrant population.
Especially in Toronto. I was transfixed after going there before the Canadian government accused the Indian government of assassinating a Sihk Canadian leader within Canada. I had no idea about all that this incident involved. It’s quite complex as I was compelled to read about it and now understand why some of the questions I was asking while in Canada got strange unexpected responses. If I have a little time I don’t waste it. I find a way to talk to people in new places.

So carry on.
Do you know French?

And the Canadians are still some of the most polite people I have ever met. I guess need to go to a trailer park to find someone different.
:lol Sorreh

And yes I'm actually francophone

pgardn

09-27-2023, 12:17 PM

:lol Sorreh

And yes I'm actually francophone

Cool
I barely know one language

Actually I know lower level math language pretty well. Up to Calculus that is used in basic physics.
Im counting math as a language, so when added to English, means I know 1 language in total.

lefty

09-27-2023, 01:33 PM

Cool
I barely know one language

Actually I know lower level math language pretty well. Up to Calculus that is used in basic physics.
Im counting math as a language, so when added to English, means I know 1 language in total.
I suck at Calculus tbh

pgardn

09-27-2023, 08:58 PM

I suck at Calculus tbh

I suck at the mathy part of calculus where they play these ornate tricky substitution games with trig functions and polynomials so you have to manipulate some initial equation into the correct form just to be able to take a derivative or to integrate it. And then I remember (faintly) of a professor giving us some equation to integrate that could not be integrated. Some kid in my class called him on it while I was struggling trying to "see" a path. How did that kid know it could not be done?

And how in the hell did I get ripped off when my father's identical twin knows about 5 languages fluently? Or for that matter, what happened to my dad who only knows 2 and could never help me with math... wtf with genetics and the ability to learn... so complex...and frustrating until you just give up and admit you dont have it. And why the hell am I putting this in a soccer forum...

resistanze

09-30-2023, 01:43 PM

I live in Montreal

I've been to Toronto a couple of times but I'm not really familiar with the area tbh
I'm not familiar with Indians either :lol

Like a quarter of Toronto is Indian tbh :lol

lefty

10-01-2023, 08:53 AM

Like a quarter of Toronto is Indian tbh :lol

that’s a lot of tech support

pgardn

10-01-2023, 08:05 PM

that’s a lot of tech support

Thats my lefty.
Looking on the bright side of life.

pgardn

10-01-2023, 08:11 PM

Like a quarter of Toronto is Indian tbh :lol

There are definitely areas that are absolutely dense.
I had to Uber about in city and got some good lectures on where and why.
I learned a lot.

Those high rise apt/condos were mind numbingly frequent.
Toronto has one of the most unique skylines I have ever seen. It was really confusing.
I thought how can a relatively small city have so many little downtowns…

resistanze

10-04-2023, 04:03 PM

There are definitely areas that are absolutely dense.
I had to Uber about in city and got some good lectures on where and why.
I learned a lot.

Those high rise apt/condos were mind numbingly frequent.
Toronto has one of the most unique skylines I have ever seen. It was really confusing.
I thought how can a relatively small city have so many little downtowns…

I mean Toronto is a pretty big North America city (only behind Mexico City, NY and LA in population). To be fair, they used to be smaller cities that were combined in 1998 into one big city of Toronto. But yes they covered the downtown core in skyscrapers, it used to be different growing up.

pgardn

10-05-2023, 02:53 PM

I mean Toronto is a pretty big North America city (only behind Mexico City, NY and LA in population). To be fair, they used to be smaller cities that were combined in 1998 into one big city of Toronto. But yes they covered the downtown core in skyscrapers, it used to be different growing up..

DallasFt.Worth and Houston city limits are small but burbs are huge. Much larger than 3 million total in those areas. Even San Antonio surroundings are about 2.5 million. And it’s not even counting the I 35 corridor that is enormous. San Antonio and Austin are growing together. Look at those places on Goggle Earth. Lots of peeps in 2d, less high rise housing. I have never seen a city more spread out than Houston. It’s city to the horizon even at 25,000 ft. in an airplane.

resistanze

10-05-2023, 05:50 PM

.

DallasFt.Worth and Houston city limits are small but burbs are huge. Much larger than 3 million total in those areas. Even San Antonio surroundings are about 2.5 million. And it’s not even counting the I 35 corridor that is enormous. San Antonio and Austin are growing together. Look at those places on Goggle Earth. Lots of peeps in 2d, less high rise housing. I have never seen a city more spread out than Houston. It’s city to the horizon even at 25,000 ft. in an airplane.

Yeah, the Toronto metro area including the burbs is 6 million people, in only a quarter of the land area of the Houston metro area (which has 7 million people). I hate the burbs of Toronto (my parents live there) but it's much more dense than Dallas/Houston metro area (in my trips there I feel like I gotta drive to use the bathroom tbh). Forget about Houston traffic :lol

FrostKing

11-02-2023, 02:45 PM

https://i.ibb.co/xHR7Rfn/Screenshot-20231102-124414-Chrome.png

lefty

11-03-2023, 09:12 AM

https://i.ibb.co/xHR7Rfn/Screenshot-20231102-124414-Chrome.png
No surprise tbh

FrostKing

11-06-2023, 04:30 AM

DAF86

11-06-2023, 01:46 PM

1 goal?

MLS running ponzi scheme.

Meanwhile Europa is awarding him dOr's. I'm okay with Messi winning when he finally popped cherry on #1 ranked team. But I'm also ready to say fuck off. Yah I'm still pissed Lewandowski didn't win it for shattering a German record
https://i.ibb.co/jLnFkFR/lionel-messi-argentina-fouled-wojciech-779514479-1.jpg

And denied entry

I love my Catholic Argentinian brothers but this footy

Dude, it's not Messi fault that France Football decided not to hand out the Ballon D'or in the one season that Lewandoski deserved to win, tbh.

Yall should start a movement to get Lewa his Golden Ball, imho.

FrostKing

11-06-2023, 08:14 PM

Dude, it's not Messi fault that France Football decided not to hand out the Ballon D'or in the one season that Lewandoski deserved to win, tbh.

Yall should start a movement to get Lewa his Golden Ball, imho.
Thank you for saying that. Nice of you.

I had Argentina winning the Cup. You guys won fair & square. I like knowing Catholics continue to own the Arabic World :lol

All jokes aside, you guys lived up to the hype. Well done.

lefty

11-07-2023, 04:38 PM

Thank you for saying that. Nice of you.

I had Argentina winning the Cup. You guys won fair & square. I like knowing Catholics continue to own the Arabic World :lol

All jokes aside, you guys lived up to the hype. Well done.

idk about fair and square
Messi did play his ass off for once during the WC, he sure blew his load in that tournament - NoFap during the rest of the reason worked out well for him.

But it was nice to see Macron looking like a little puppy after the game :lol

It was also nice to see the disappointed farmer face of Deschamps, he had a punchable face as a player and he has a punchable face as a coach; so yeah he was boen with a punchable paysan face.

DAF86

11-07-2023, 05:18 PM

idk about fair and square
Messi did play his ass off for once during the WC, he sure blew his load in that tournament - NoFap during the rest of the reason worked out well for him.

But it was nice to see Macron looking like a little puppy after the game :lol

It was also nice to see the disappointed farmer face of Deschamps, he had a punchable face as a player and he has a punchable face as a coach; so yeah he was boen with a punchable paysan face.

Why wouldn't it be fair and square?

Brazil

11-10-2023, 09:44 AM

Why wouldn't it be fair and square?

:lmao

DAF86

11-10-2023, 07:51 PM

:lmao

Are you in the bandwagon of the low IQ dumbfucks that think the WC was rigged? :lol

Hoops Czar

11-11-2023, 12:13 AM

Are you in the bandwagon of the low IQ dumbfucks that think the WC was rigged? :lol
Maybe he thinks the Ballon D'or was rigged. Where was Mbappe's in 2018 or Muller's in 2014 if we're handing out Ballon D'or's to WC winners? Domestically, Messi played in a farmer's league, held off Lens to win the French Ligue by a point and got bounced from champions league with relative ease. If we're going to lie to ourselves and say that trumps winning the treble in England all while breaking scoring records in Europe's toughest and most competitive league, I don't know what to say. haaland was robbed. FWIW, as far as the national team goes, Messi wasn't winning a WC with Norway either.

FrostKing

11-11-2023, 01:07 AM

Why wouldn't it be fair and square?
Maybe since a good portion of the French team caught camel flu leading up the match.

DAF86

11-11-2023, 01:11 AM

Maybe he thinks the Ballon D'or was rigged. Where was Mbappe's in 2018 or Muller's in 2014 if we're handing out Ballon D'or's to WC winners? Domestically, Messi played in a farmer's league, held off Lens to win the French Ligue by a point and got bounced from champions league with relative ease. If we're going to lie to ourselves and say that trumps winning the treble in England all while breaking scoring records in Europe's toughest and most competitive league, I don't know what to say. haaland was robbed. FWIW, as far as the national team goes, Messi wasn't winning a WC with Norway either.

Neither of those guys even won Golden Ball of the WC. Heck, they didn't even finish 1st in voting of their respective teams (Griezman and Neuer) :lol

Regarding the other nonesense, here, educate yourself:

https://turivers3.b-cdn.net/original/4X/9/b/3/9b3c1a2816a1dc2f002885ac6ca044d3c4a7c976.jpeg

Hoops Czar

11-11-2023, 01:51 AM

Neither of those guys even won Golden Ball of the WC. Heck, they didn't even finish 1st in voting of their respective teams (Griezman and Neuer) :lol

Regarding the other nonesense, here, educate yourself:

https://turivers3.b-cdn.net/original/4X/9/b/3/9b3c1a2816a1dc2f002885ac6ca044d3c4a7c976.jpeg

Comparing the EPL to the French Ligue 1 :lol. That's where you lost me. He stat padding in a farmer's league while Haaland dominated the top league in the world. No talk about competitions that matter because PSG didn't even make the Quarters of champions league, getting blanked twice by Bayern. Where were all those goals and assists for Club when it mattered? No Nice, Reims, or Clermont Foot to clobber in champions league. Outside of WC accomplishments, he beat up on inferior talent just like he's doing in the MLS and he's being rewarded for it.

DAF86

11-11-2023, 02:04 AM

Comparing the EPL to the French Ligue 1 :lol. That's where you lost me. He stat padding in a farmer's league while Haaland dominated the top league in the world. No talk about competitions that matter because PSG didn't even make the Quarters of champions league, getting blanked twice by Bayern. Where were all those goals and assists for Club when it mattered? No Nice, Reims, or Clermont Foot to clobber in champions league. Outside of WC accomplishments, he beat up on inferior talent just like he's doing in the MLS and he's being rewarded for it.

It is easier to get stats in the Premier League than on the French League, specially on City, and specially as the main target and penalty taker. Messi was taking a seatback to Mbappe on a harder league to stat pad and still outpadded Haaland.

Also, PSG before Messi got there = lost the league.

City before Haaland got there = b2b champions.

Messi had the better stats and the bigger trophy, he clearly deserved the Ballon D'or. If Haaland would have won it, it would have been fine too. Anyone screaming "robbery" is just a basic bitch that hasn't paid enough attention to the facts.

Hoops Czar

11-14-2023, 11:31 PM

It is easier to get stats in the Premier League than on the French League, specially on City, and specially as the main target and penalty taker. Messi was taking a seatback to Mbappe on a harder league to stat pad and still outpadded Haaland.

Also, PSG before Messi got there = lost the league.

City before Haaland got there = b2b champions.

Messi had the better stats and the bigger trophy, he clearly deserved the Ballon D'or. If Haaland would have won it, it would have been fine too. Anyone screaming "robbery" is just a basic bitch that hasn't paid enough attention to the facts.

PSG has won Ligue one nine times in their last 11 tries (because it's difficult?) and is barely holding on to that 5th best European conference power rankings and you're argument is we'll, it's easier to pad stats on City because they won back 2 back titles without Haaland and now he's their main striker? Do you listen to yourself speak? Anyone who tries to compare Ligue 1 to the EPL is a complete idiot and that's me putting it politely. PSG is expected to dominate Ligue 1 and when they don't, they usually fire their manager.

It's much easier to stat pad in a non-competive league than it is to in a competitive one. The bottom of the EPL is on par with mid table Ligue 1 teams. You get a real good look at where the leagues stand when you see PSG, the best Ligue 1 has to offer, getting thumped in the UCL with or without fanboy and playing alongside two world class strikers in Mbappe and Neymar, who undoubtedly helped to inflate Messi's assist totals.

The only meaningful trophies that Messi won over Haaland were the WC one's and even at that, Messi had a solid supporting cast in Argentina. He wouldn't have won shit playing for Norway as the main striker/facilitator.

DAF86

11-15-2023, 12:02 AM

PSG has won Ligue one nine times in their last 11 tries (because it's difficult?) and is barely holding on to that 5th best European conference power rankings and you're argument is we'll, it's easier to pad stats on City because they won back 2 back titles without Haaland and now he's their main striker? Do you listen to yourself speak? Anyone who tries to compare Ligue 1 to the EPL is a complete idiot and that's me putting it politely. PSG is expected to dominate Ligue 1 and when they don't, they usually fire their manager.

It's much easier to stat pad in a non-competive league than it is to in a competitive one. The bottom of the EPL is on par with mid table Ligue 1 teams. You get a real good look at where the leagues stand when you see PSG, the best Ligue 1 has to offer, getting thumped in the UCL with or without fanboy and playing alongside two world class strikers in Mbappe and Neymar, who undoubtedly helped to inflate Messi's assist totals.

The only meaningful trophies that Messi won over Haaland were the WC one's and even at that, Messi had a solid supporting cast in Argentina. He wouldn't have won shit playing for Norway as the main striker/facilitator.

No, dumbass. It's easier to statpad on the Premier League just because it is. The style of play is way more open and there are more goals. Over the years, there are a lot more goals scored in the Premier League than in Ligue 1. Take City and Chelsea game the other day: a 4-4 draw. That seldom happens on any other league. It is similar to the NBA and the Euroleague, where the level of play is higher in the NBA, but it is also easier to get better stats because of the style of play and the rules.

In any case, Messi still outgained Haaland in terms of stats while also winning the bigger trophy. Deserved Ball D'or. Anyone screaming "robbery" is an emotional baby that can't analyze facts with an objective viewpoint.

lefty

11-17-2023, 08:41 AM

0-2 :lol

lefty

11-17-2023, 08:54 AM

Losing the ball which led to Uruguay’s 2nd goal :lol

ElNono

11-18-2023, 02:52 PM

Uruguay was the better team, tbh... good humbling.

lefty

11-19-2023, 05:06 AM

Uruguay was the better team, tbh... good humbling.

Nice team tbh
Fede, Ugarte, Darwin, Araujo
And coached by Bielsa

FrostKing

11-20-2023, 07:30 AM

No matter which you preferred, there is no denying the 2005-2022 was probably the best Era we'll see in footy maybe til our death beds. The sport is transitioning, best players are still too young and major International Tournament's are being watered down.

I'll attend the Euros in person like I always do. North America World Cup will be top notch travel, accommodations and hype. But the talent on the field won't compare to last hurrah 2022 or 2006.

The sport isn't in crisis but we need new heroes and villains.

FrostKing

11-20-2023, 07:47 AM

https://x.com/brfootball/status/1257323351267147786?s=20

2006 was the most talented World Cup I watched

TheGreatYacht

11-20-2023, 11:00 AM

Sad to see this rivalry have such a sad end tbh..

Ronaldo up there with Haaland, Mbappe, Kane in goals scored this year. While the midget flopped in the MLS (1 goal :lol )

Bynumite

11-20-2023, 08:06 PM

ElNono

11-20-2023, 09:11 PM

ElNono

11-20-2023, 09:12 PM

Midget is the prototype modern day football mercenary. He was great with barca, but every other club he joined only to collect checks.

uh? He won with all the teams he joined, including PSG and Inter Miami.

lefty

11-21-2023, 05:18 PM

Mbappe won with PSG tbh, Pessi was just a passenger

Amuseddaysleeper

11-26-2023, 11:46 AM

Midget is the prototype modern day football mercenary. He was great with barca, but every other club he joined only to collect checks.

You can't even say this was good business for the mls, when the hype settled down, nobody gives a shit about the mls still.

And nobody gives a shit about Saudi Arabia either. No way they make money on that absurd contract.

Hype will be back next season, but Messi is virtually retired.

He also spent 95% of his career at barca, ronaldo is a way way bigger mercenary. Literally left Real madrid over money and his career was never the same.

Messi is the GOAT, just accept it my friend.

Amuseddaysleeper

11-26-2023, 11:46 AM

Sad to see this rivalry have such a sad end tbh..

Ronaldo up there with Haaland, Mbappe, Kane in goals scored this year. While the midget flopped in the MLS (1 goal :lol )

World Cup >>>>>>>> having a team not win the saudi league despite all those "goals"

Amuseddaysleeper

11-26-2023, 11:48 AM

Comparing the EPL to the French Ligue 1 :lol. That's where you lost me. He stat padding in a farmer's league while Haaland dominated the top league in the world. No talk about competitions that matter because PSG didn't even make the Quarters of champions league, getting blanked twice by Bayern. Where were all those goals and assists for Club when it mattered? No Nice, Reims, or Clermont Foot to clobber in champions league. Outside of WC accomplishments, he beat up on inferior talent just like he's doing in the MLS and he's being rewarded for it.

Haaland had 0 goals in the semi finals and finals of all tourneys City played in. They scored 12 goals in those 5 matches.

Haaland is great but never had the decisive goals often enough. Much like lewandowski they score when the team scores in bunches, but very very rarely do you recall match winning goals. Haaland suffers from playing on a brilliant team, Messi inarguably had more of a carry job in the NT than Haaland in CL.

Bynumite

11-26-2023, 03:31 PM

And nobody gives a shit about Saudi Arabia either. No way they make money on that absurd contract.

Hype will be back next season, but Messi is virtually retired.

He also spent 95% of his career at barca, ronaldo is a way way bigger mercenary. Literally left Real madrid over money and his career was never the same.

Messi is the GOAT, just accept it my friend.

I'm calling midget a football mercenary in the sense that, when he left barca, he never played at that same level and never scored that many goals ever again. He was just there collecting checks at PSG and now Inter Miami.

Ronaldo on the other hand, always did with he was paid to do, score a shit ton of goals. Left Real with 450 goals for the club, scored 101 goals in 3 seasons in Italy, 18 goals in the Premier League at 36 years and now Al Nassr.

With Ronaldo, you know what you're gonna get, goals. When you sign midget, he might be an injured TOSB or just have sand in his vagina because he's playing in a different system than the one he's accustomed to. Therefore, his production and numbers drop.

Amuseddaysleeper

11-26-2023, 03:36 PM

I'm calling midget a football mercenary in the sense that, when he left barca, he never played at that same level and never scored that many goals ever again. He was just there collecting checks at PSG and now Inter Miami.

Ronaldo on the other hand, always did with he was paid to do, score a shit ton of goals. Left Real with 450 goals for the club, scored 101 goals in 3 seasons in Italy, 18 goals in the Premier League at 36 years and now Al Nassr.

With Ronaldo, you know what you're gonna get, goals. When you sign midget, he might be an injured TOSB or just have sand in his vagina because he's playing in a different system than the one he's accustomed to. Therefore, his production and numbers drop.

With Ronaldo you get a diva that NO ONE wants to deal with. Banished from Europa, and even after goals in Saudi Arabia where players at Mitrovic level are just 3 goals behind nobody will want Ronaldo back in europe. BENCHnaldo for a reason.

But hey, scoring against plumbers at 39 for a ton of money is good for him, his implosion and suicide of his career will be remembered for years and years.

Bynumite

11-26-2023, 03:47 PM

With Ronaldo you get a diva that NO ONE wants to deal with. Banished from Europa, and even after goals in Saudi Arabia where players at Mitrovic level are just 3 goals behind nobody will want Ronaldo back in europe. BENCHnaldo for a reason.

But hey, scoring against plumbers at 39 for a ton of money is good for him, his implosion and suicide of his career will be remembered for years and years.

Meanwhile, midget is not even top 200 in the MLS in goals with only 1 goal, in a worse league than the saudi league :lol

Nothing but a football mercenary just waiting for that retirement package :lol

Amuseddaysleeper

11-26-2023, 04:24 PM

Meanwhile, midget is not even top 200 in the MLS in goals with only 1 goal, in a worse league than the saudi league :lol

Nothing but a football mercenary just waiting for that retirement package :lol

11 goals in 13 MLS matches in the US, way to try to talk shit for “league goals only” 11 goals in 13 matches is great. You were crying about scripting Messi was playing so well ffs

Hoops Czar

11-29-2023, 04:45 AM

No, dumbass. It's easier to statpad on the Premier League just because it is. The style of play is way more open and there are more goals. Over the years, there are a lot more goals scored in the Premier League than in Ligue 1. Take City and Chelsea game the other day: a 4-4 draw. That seldom happens on any other league. It is similar to the NBA and the Euroleague, where the level of play is higher in the NBA, but it is also easier to get better stats because of the style of play and the rules.

In any case, Messi still outgained Haaland in terms of stats while also winning the bigger trophy. Deserved Ball D'or. Anyone screaming "robbery" is an emotional baby that can't analyze facts with an objective viewpoint.

Have you ever actually sat down and watched an EPL game involving Man City within the last decade? The majority of teams park the bus against City making it more challenging to score. It's why City has so much possession because opposing teams put ten in the box. yeah, there's more scoring in the premier league in general because the level of competition is much greater than that shithole of a French Ligue one. The City-Chelsea game was an anomaly. As bad as City's defense has been this year, they rarely give up more than a goal or two. Let me put it another way, if City and PSG switched places, they would absolutely thrash the French Ligue one. City would be centurions every season.

The Euroleague is a couple steps below the NBA but I've seen washed up scrubs leave the NBA for the Euroleague and dominate. The NBA hasn't always been about the motion offense, it used to be a lot of one on one and post ups. I would argue that 12-15 years ago, the NBA was a different animal. It was much easier to statpad abroad than to do so in the NBA. Many players playing in today's NBA wouldn't have had a job 15 years ago.

Lets keep it simple, Messi won the Ballon D'or because it was a WC year and his team won, not because of his stat padding in a farmer's league. But, it's also pretty obvious that Messi was surrounded by better players at Argentina than Haaland had at Norway. Put Messi on Norway and Haaland on Argentina, Norway doesn't make it out of the group stage while Argentina are still competing for a WC.