[Part III] Who is SpursTalk's favorite 2021 draft prospect with less than two weeks from draft night?

[Dejounte]

Lock in your votes, people.

Did you change your mind once again?

Jalen Johnson gained the most fans after a month. Josh Giddey & Moses Moody both lost the most fans after a month. See below.



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*Note* Jaden Springer was an addition to Poll 2 replacing Corey Kispert from Poll 1.

I will *not* be removing James Bouknight from this third and final poll even though he received zero votes in Poll 2 simply because I don't see a suitable replacement. But also because I don't want to upset @alfahdlan (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=18148). ;)

[Thomas82]

I'm still sticking with Kai Jones.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Sengun or Kispert.

[Ditty]

Sengun.

[barakz21]

I want Franz. He’s got the length, to play 3 or 4 though I prefer he plays the former so KJ can slide down to 3. From everything everyone’s posts on here, seems like he’d be a very good glue guy. Maybe we could do a lot better than a glue guy considering where the franchise is at right now, but that’s not such a bad thing. If he could become an Andre Igoudala type, that wouldn’t be so bad. Igguodala wasn’t very good at being the franchise player, but those pre-KD Dubs teams wouldn’t have won titles without him.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6dUS4jVUAE40-4?format=jpg&name=large

[Mr. Body]

Klutch Lol

[DeRozan m8]

Klutch....the lowest of the low

True scum

[Spurtacular]

Okay, Wagner has better lateral quickness on defense than I was expecting. I can see why posters are high on him.

[ragas]

I‘m missing Ziaire Williams in the poll. One of Johnson, Williams, Jones, Sengun if the Spurs stay at #12

[John B]

If they lose Murray on a trade, then they should draft Wagner as replacement. If not, then draft Jalen as potential star .

What I want the PATFO to make:
S&T Demar for players and a pick. Trade haul and Murray for Collins. Pick Duarte and Wagner.
Derrick/Duarte/Keldon/Collins/Poeltl. Wagner/Trae as backup PG

Or if they think they can fix Simmons:
S&T Demar/Murray for Simmons. Sign Lauri as stretch big.
Simmons/White/Vassel/Keldon/Lauri. Draft Jalen as potential star.

What I think PATFO will do:
Resigns Demar and Mills. Draft Wagner/Sengun or BPA and sign Lauri

[FlAVaK]

Since Ademola Okulaja played for the Spurs twenty years ago (just SL, they wanted to sign for 2 yrs, but he already signed at Barca!), I am waiting for a german Spur...

So give me Wagner! But I think he will be gone at 12

[spurspl]

voted for wagner but tbh him, sengun, moody and probably johnson wont be available at #12.

[Ignazzz]

voted for wagner but tbh him, sengun, moody and probably johnson wont be available at #12.

who is the best project overall from this group?

[mo7888]

who is the best project overall from this group?

I'd put them in this order

Wagner
Moody
Sengun
Johnson

But you can make viable arguments for any of them

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

1a/1b Moody/Bouknight
3 Wagner
4 Jalen Johnson
5 Sengun
6/7/8 Keon Johnson/Ziaire Williams/Garuba

[spurspl]

who is the best project overall from this group?

wagner
moody
sengun
johnson

im not a fan of the rest from the poll and id prefer to trade down to get trey murphy and/or duarte

[PrimeMinister]

There’s only so many teams ahead of the spurs and so many players that can rise beyond 12

Top 6 seems to be pretty consistent in some order to be Cade-Green-Mobley-Suggs-Kuminga-Barnes

The next picks get a little murky but in the 7-10 range there’s a good chance Mitchell, Bouknight, Keon Johnson, and Moody are off the board. Players can rise, someone could leap into the top 10 like Franz, Jalen Johnson, maybe someone makes a potential pick on Kai Jones.

but that leaves Charlotte at 11 before the spurs. Insider types like the Kai Jones fit with Lamelo, it seems to make sense from a roster standpoint.

Spurs in my mind will have a choice between Sengun, Jalen, Franz and Giddey. Some buzz they like Jackson as well from what I’ve seen. If say Jalen starts rising on draft night, then swap his name with Franz. If Sengun for some reason rises on draft night, flip him with Kai. Basically no matter what happens it looks to me like the spurs will have a solid pick at 12.

For potential, fit, and just BPA I’d take Sengun. He will likely be on the board, has an incredible feel for the game, plays hard, plays big, has a nose for the ball. From the limited information I can gather as some jackass writing a draft evaluation on my phone, I like what I see and I like it a lot.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

The drafting choice boils down to the goal. Do you want to merely get back into playoffs? Or you want to win a championship? If Championship is the goal, you pick the high risk high reward guy - Kai Jones. Jones at his ceiling will be a super star - A Kevin Garnet with Duncan's character and leadership. 3 point shooting, rim runner, fast break, shot blocking, switchibility on defense.

Barns? Sengun? No 3 pt shooting yet. How many guys were drafted and hoped to develop 3 pt shooting and failed? So, lesson #1, you don't want to gamble on 3 pt shooting. Jones at least has it already, even though not high volume.

Jalen Johnson? I don't want another Steven Jackson, Jonathan Simmons or even Kobe Bryant. Remember Kobe could have won 6 titles with Shaq. Lesson #2, you don't gamble with character. That thing cannot be developed in 10 years. Adequate ego means competitive and rise at the moment. But too much ego or selfishness will harm the team's cohesion badly. After all, basketball is a team sport. From the interview, Jones had Duncan's humbleness ,work ethic and wisdom. Manu is another great example. Duncan+Manu+Pop = Multiple Championships.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

The drafting choice boils down to the goal. Do you want to merely get back into playoffs? Or you want to win a championship? If Championship is the goal, you pick the&nbsp; high risk high reward guy - Kai Jones. Jones at his ceiling will be a super star - A Kevin Garnet with Duncan's character and leadership. 3 point shooting, rim runner, fast break, shot blocking, switchibility on defense.<br><br>Barns? Sengun? No 3 pt shooting yet. How many guys were drafted and hoped to develop 3 pt shooting and failed? So, lesson #1, you don't want to gamble on 3 pt shooting. Jones at least has it already, even though not high volume.&nbsp;<br><br>Jalen Johnson? I don't want another Steven Jackson, Jonathan Simmons or even Kobe Bryant. Remember Kobe could have won 6 titles with Shaq. Lesson #2, you don't gamble with character. That thing cannot be developed in 10 years. Adequate ego means competitive and rise at the moment. But too much ego or selfishness will harm the team's cohesion badly.&nbsp; After all, basketball is a team sport. From the interview, Jones had Duncan's humbleness ,work ethic and wisdom. Manu is another great example. Duncan+Manu+Pop = Multiple Championships.

[BackHome]

I think from the above list they will only be 2 players still there when we draft so at least won’t have to many people bitching when they don’t pick there guy.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I think from the above list they will only be 2 players still there when we draft so at least won’t have to many people bitching when they don’t pick there guy.

At least 5 players from OP's list will be there at 12.

[mo7888]

I think from the above list they will only be 2 players still there when we draft so at least won’t have to many people bitching when they don’t pick there guy.

At a minimum 4 will be available. Cade, Mobley, Suggs, green, Kuminga, and Barnes all go ahead of this list.

[PhantomDashCam]

I find it very strange that we still have yet to hear about any confirmed Franz Wagner workouts.

He’s in a group with Cade, Suggs, Mobley and Green from what I can tell ie. consensus lottery talent with unsubstantiated nba team meetings.
That’s your likely top 4 + Franz.

He doesn’t attend the combine. Gets a green room invite….

The “Kings Promise” makes some sense but even prospects like Barnes and Kuminga are meeting with/working out for teams lower than their projected draft position.

Perhaps some more in the know can shed some light on this…

[FlAVaK]

I find it very strange that we still have yet to hear about any confirmed Franz Wagner workouts.

He’s in a group with Cade, Suggs, Mobley and Green from what I can tell ie. consensus lottery talent with unsubstantiated nba team meetings.
That’s your likely top 4 + Franz.

He doesn’t attend the combine. Gets a green room invite….

The “Kings Promise” makes some sense but even prospects like Barnes and Kuminga are meeting with/working out for teams lower than their projected draft position.

Perhaps some more in the know can shed some light on this…

1413957788242354178

[Dejounte]

My fleeting thoughts of the day

something positive about each player:

Franz has DPOY potential, IMO
Moody could be a nice two way player
Sengun might make big men fun to watch again
Kai could win the Spurs’ first ever dunk contest
Giddey will make the Spurs relevant on mainstream media, similar to LaMelo and Charlotte
Jalen J could run with the young guys and make fast breaks fun
Springer will maintain the Spurs status quo as mid range masters
Garuba will make defense fun to watch
Keon can tandem with Lonnie and fly high every game
Bouknight could become a dangerous scoring machine

negatives
Nothing flashy about Franz’ handles
Moody might be content with being a 2nd or 3rd option
Sengun might be a stat stuffer but have no impact on winning
Kai might have lower bball IQ than Rudy Gay and that’s saying something
Giddey’s defense might bring back memories of Bryn Forbes
Jalen J might quit on the team after 10 games after being yelled at by Pop.
Springer might be another combo guard who brings nothing new to the table
Garuba might make Poeltl look like a good offensive player
Keon hesitating with shooting 3s might make people break their TV
Bouknight might be more injury prone than Derrick White

[pad300]

I find it very strange that we still have yet to hear about any confirmed Franz Wagner workouts.

He’s in a group with Cade, Suggs, Mobley and Green from what I can tell ie. consensus lottery talent with unsubstantiated nba team meetings.
That’s your likely top 4 + Franz.

He doesn’t attend the combine. Gets a green room invite….

The “Kings Promise” makes some sense but even prospects like Barnes and Kuminga are meeting with/working out for teams lower than their projected draft position.

Perhaps some more in the know can shed some light on this…

The only thing that makes sense to me (like I wrote in the draft discussion thread), is that Wagner has a promise in hand from a team he wants to go to, so he's shut things down. I have no idea if that's the Kings or someone else.

[mo7888]

The only thing that makes sense to me (like I wrote in the draft discussion thread), is that Wagner has a promise in hand from a team he wants to go to, so he's shut things down. I have no idea if that's the Kings or someone else.

I don't think it's the Kings... I think he's gone before then myself..

[SpurPadre]

Wagner and Giddey's lack of athleticism is a concern for me.

[mo7888]

Wagner and Giddey's lack of athleticism is a concern for me.

Wagner is a very good athlete...no concerns there... now Giddey....well its not his strength..

[SpurPadre]

Wagner is a very good athlete...no concerns there... now Giddey....well its not his strength..

Every scouting report lists athleticism as a weakness for Wagner and none of the videos I've seen suggest anything close to elite athleticism.

Here are just some of the things being said about his limited athleticism:

"Wagner may struggle to create his own shot in the NBA due to his lack of explosiveness getting to the hoop and lack of great foot speed to gain separation … Was an excellent finisher in college, but with much better athletes in the NBA, he may have difficulty matching that success rate"

"Wagner’s lack of elite athleticism is a concern, especially if he is going to stick at the three. There is a chance that he can improve his quickness and agility with an NBA training staff, but there are limitations."

"On top of that, Wagner doesn’t have the elite athleticism of some other prospects in his class. This leads to him having to find other ways to score whilst driving to the basket."

[Dejounte]

Does CP3, Middleton, Booker, Jrue, strike people as players with elite athleticism?

give me a break

You can be good without elite athleticism. The sport is more than that. You’d figure people would have learned that by now from watching Lonnie looking like a deer in headlights

[John B]

My fleeting thoughts of the day

something positive about each player:

Franz has DPOY potential, IMO
Moody could be a nice two way player
Sengun might make big men fun to watch again
Kai could win the Spurs’ first ever dunk contest
Giddey will make the Spurs relevant on mainstream media, similar to LaMelo and Charlotte
Jalen J could run with the young guys and make fast breaks fun
Springer will maintain the Spurs status quo as mid range masters
Garuba will make defense fun to watch
Keon can tandem with Lonnie and fly high every game
Bouknight could become a dangerous scoring machine

negatives
Nothing flashy about Franz’ handles
Moody might be content with being a 2nd or 3rd option
Sengun might be a stat stuffer but have no impact on winning
Kai might have lower bball IQ than Rudy Gay and that’s saying something
Giddey’s defense might bring back memories of Bryn Forbes
Jalen J might quit on the team after 10 games after being yelled at by Pop.
Springer might be another combo guard who brings nothing new to the table
Garuba might make Poeltl look like a good offensive player
Keon hesitating with shooting 3s might make people break their TV
Bouknight might be more injury prone than Derrick White

:bobo I like it. You were very high on Duarte before, and even said take him if that’s who the PATFO wants instead of trading down. Why isn’t he on this list?

[SpurPadre]

Does CP3, Middleton, Booker, Jrue, strike people as players with elite athleticism?

give me a break

You can be good without elite athleticism. The sport is more than that. You’d figure people would have learned that by now from watching Lonnie looking like a deer in headlights

Dude, I'm just saying it's a concern. A CONCERN. Not the be all, end all. A FUCKING CONCERN. That's all. Also, Wagner is not expected to be in the same stratosphere as most of those guys you mentioned.

[Dejounte]

Dude, I'm just saying it's a concern. A CONCERN. Not the be all, end all. A FUCKING CONCERN. That's all. Also, Wagner is not expected to be in the same stratosphere as most of those guys you mentioned.
Middleton, Booker, Jrue were not expected to be in the same stratosphere as Middleton, Booker, and Jrue.

[Dejounte]

:bobo I like it. You were very high on Duarte before, and even said take him if that’s who the PATFO wants instead of trading down. Why isn’t he on this list?

Polls are limited to 10 options on this board, and I didn’t want to change it up too much so I could see the trend from month to month.

i secretly think he is the pick, but we will see.

[mo7888]

Every scouting report lists athleticism as a weakness for Wagner and none of the videos I've seen suggest anything close to elite athleticism.

Here are just some of the things being said about his limited athleticism:

"Wagner may struggle to create his own shot in the NBA due to his lack of explosiveness getting to the hoop and lack of great foot speed to gain separation … Was an excellent finisher in college, but with much better athletes in the NBA, he may have difficulty matching that success rate"

"Wagner’s lack of elite athleticism is a concern, especially if he is going to stick at the three. There is a chance that he can improve his quickness and agility with an NBA training staff, but there are limitations."

"On top of that, Wagner doesn’t have the elite athleticism of some other prospects in his class. This leads to him having to find other ways to score whilst driving to the basket."

I didn't say it was elite....I said it was very good.... watch the video of him against Barnes (who is elite)....

[Mr. Body]

Elite athleticism is a trap for a lot of picks. A guy like Kuminga is going to be a bust, but someone will pay him millions of dollars to be the next Jabari Parker. Meanwhile Jared Dudley had a long career as a slow-ass dude, because he knew positioning and how to play basketball. I'd rather have a guy who's two steps slow but always in position than a guy who is two steps faster but always three steps away.

[Dennis the Menace]

What about Trey Murphy?? Y’all slipping. That’s the diamond in the draft

[Spurtacular]

Okay, Wagner has better lateral quickness on defense than I was expecting. I can see why posters are high on him.

After Game 5 NBA Finals, I'm higher on Wagner. You got to have a big who can guard Black Greek guy in this league.

[CGD]

Polls are limited to 10 options on this board, and I didn’t want to change it up too much so I could see the trend from month to month.

i secretly think he is the pick, but we will see.

Im having hard time seeing poll. Could you paste in the thread the top 3 consensus picks of this board?

I should probably start caring about the draft now.

[CGD]

Polls are limited to 10 options on this board, and I didn’t want to change it up too much so I could see the trend from month to month.

i secretly think he is the pick, but we will see.

Im having hard time seeing poll. Could you paste in the thread the top 3 consensus picks of this board?

I should probably start caring about the draft now.

[rankingtear]

The drafting choice boils down to the goal. Do you want to merely get back into playoffs? Or you want to win a championship? If Championship is the goal, you pick the high risk high reward guy - Kai Jones. Jones at his ceiling will be a super star - A Kevin Garnet with Duncan's character and leadership. 3 point shooting, rim runner, fast break, shot blocking, switchibility on defense.

Barns? Sengun? No 3 pt shooting yet. How many guys were drafted and hoped to develop 3 pt shooting and failed? So, lesson #1, you don't want to gamble on 3 pt shooting. Jones at least has it already, even though not high volume.

Jalen Johnson? I don't want another Steven Jackson, Jonathan Simmons or even Kobe Bryant. Remember Kobe could have won 6 titles with Shaq. Lesson #2, you don't gamble with character. That thing cannot be developed in 10 years. Adequate ego means competitive and rise at the moment. But too much ego or selfishness will harm the team's cohesion badly. After all, basketball is a team sport. From the interview, Jones had Duncan's humbleness ,work ethic and wisdom. Manu is another great example. Duncan+Manu+Pop = Multiple Championships.

Shooting is easier to develop relative to other skills. Takes a ton of work but it is more straightforward than other skills that relies on tools/instincts more.

[Dejounte]

Im having hard time seeing poll. Could you paste in the thread the top 3 consensus picks of this board?

I should probably start caring about the draft now.

top 3 (current poll)
1. Franz
2. Sengun
3. Kai Jones

top 3 (combination of last two polls)
1. Franz
2. Moses
3. Sengun

[Mr. Body]

What about Trey Murphy?? Y’all slipping. That’s the diamond in the draft

One dimensional shooter who isn't as good at defense as you'd expect.

[itzsoweezee]

The drafting choice boils down to the goal. Do you want to merely get back into playoffs? Or you want to win a championship? If Championship is the goal, you pick the high risk high reward guy - Kai Jones. Jones at his ceiling will be a super star - A Kevin Garnet with Duncan's character and leadership. 3 point shooting, rim runner, fast break, shot blocking, switchibility on defense.

Barns? Sengun? No 3 pt shooting yet. How many guys were drafted and hoped to develop 3 pt shooting and failed? So, lesson #1, you don't want to gamble on 3 pt shooting. Jones at least has it already, even though not high volume.

Jalen Johnson? I don't want another Steven Jackson, Jonathan Simmons or even Kobe Bryant. Remember Kobe could have won 6 titles with Shaq. Lesson #2, you don't gamble with character. That thing cannot be developed in 10 years. Adequate ego means competitive and rise at the moment. But too much ego or selfishness will harm the team's cohesion badly. After all, basketball is a team sport. From the interview, Jones had Duncan's humbleness ,work ethic and wisdom. Manu is another great example. Duncan+Manu+Pop = Multiple Championships.

Predicting character is a guess too. Remember what everyone thought of Kawhi?

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Predicting character is a guess too. Remember what everyone thought of Kawhi?

The entire draft is a gamble. I just like to minimize risk by eliminating a prospect who had quitted on two previous teams before. But who knows? Maybe Spurs interviewed him and found him acceptable. Plus, if Kai Jones and Sengun is gone before 12th, then Jalen Johnson is the only big guy remaining with a high ceiling. I will gamble and pick him and hope for the best.

[CGD]

top 3 (current poll)
1. Franz
2. Sengun
3. Kai Jones

top 3 (combination of last two polls)
1. Franz
2. Moses
3. Sengun

Wow, people really like the German and Turkish kids huh? Cool

[Russ]

How about . . .

1. James Bouknight
2. Kai Jones
3. Josh Giddey

All have their own distinct risks but also possibilities.

Opinions just not as strong (yet) this year as in the past.

[The Truth #6]

After Game 5 NBA Finals, I'm higher on Wagner. You got to have a big who can guard Black Greek guy in this league.

Garuba is likely going to be the best defender in this class, especially for trying to guard the Lebron/Kawhi/Greek types. But Franz looks to great defensively as well, with obviously a better all around game. But I think Garuba is being undervalued and has better BBIQ than is being given credit. Not incredible, but definitely not awful.

[exstatic]

voted for wagner but tbh him, sengun, moody and probably johnson wont be available at #12.

If Sengün isn’t available, then a lot of teams are adopting the CIA mentality of the Spurs, because they usually invite to the green room based on back channel comms with the teams, and he wasn’t in the first 15 invited.

[Russ]

Garuba is likely going to be the best defender in this class, especially for trying to guard the Lebron/Kawhi/Greek types. But Franz looks to great defensively as well, with obviously a better all around game. But I think Garuba is being undervalued and has better BBIQ than is being given credit. Not incredible, but definitely not awful.

Garuba is likely to be way, way better on offense than most seem to think.

He'll probably end up being a well-rounded high-end player.

In other words, he's no Matisse Thybulle.

[Mr. Body]

Garuba feels a lot like Malik Rose to me.

[Spurtacular]

Garuba is likely going to be the best defender in this class, especially for trying to guard the Lebron/Kawhi/Greek types. But Franz looks to great defensively as well, with obviously a better all around game. But I think Garuba is being undervalued and has better BBIQ than is being given credit. Not incredible, but definitely not awful.


Garuba feels a lot like Malik Rose to me.

Garuba not looking like a top half of the first round pick to me.
Got to go with the with the well rounded Franz Wagner and see if Garuba doesn't drop to the later first round / early second round and trade up (from 45).
I wouldn't hate it if Spurs got Garuba for sure though. He looks like he could be a taller, more polished version of PJ Tucker.

[Dejounte]

Few days left to cast your final votes.