Deandre Ayton is the second coming of David Robinson - Kendrick Perkins

[illusioNtEk]

"The Bucks 'play dumb basketball' and make so many careless turnovers"
"The Bucks are the 'dumbest' team in Finals history"




what a fucking dumb ass srsly

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Attention seeker. He doesn't have a viable basketball thought in his head so he has to make up stupid narratives for people to comment on instead of ignoring him. Luckily he can barely speak english so most probably wouldn't even understand him.

[Arcadian]

Robinson had a pure jumpshot. Ayton doesn't have any skill like that.

[Proxy]

Ayton is great, but he's closer to a traditional big man, lmao. The Admiral was an athlete anomaly closer to .. Giannis if anyone from today's league :downspin:

[Marco]

They should have drafted Doncic.

[cd98]

It's not necessarily a dumb comparison. Ayton has played better and better and made a big jump this season. Remember that he came into the league after one year of college and he didn't even play the whole college season. David Robinson came into the NBA after 4 years of college and a stint with the Navy. David Robinson was physically mature and NBA ready the minute he came in the league, so to make an apt comparison to Ayton, you'd have to wonder how good David would have been as a college sophomore coming into the league. Under that standard, after two years in the NBA and one year of college, it's not a wild comparison to think that's what David Robinson would look like. Especially you have to consider that the NBA game in David's era favored big men and Ayton is playing in an era that disfavors big men.

[SpursDynasty85]

It's not necessarily a dumb comparison. Ayton has played better and better and made a big jump this season. Remember that he came into the league after one year of college and he didn't even play the whole college season. David Robinson came into the NBA after 4 years of college and a stint with the Navy. David Robinson was physically mature and NBA ready the minute he came in the league, so to make an apt comparison to Ayton, you'd have to wonder how good David would have been as a college sophomore coming into the league. Under that standard, after two years in the NBA and one year of college, it's not a wild comparison to think that's what David Robinson would look like. Especially you have to consider that the NBA game in David's era favored big men and Ayton is playing in an era that disfavors big men.

Good points. David was more athletic and quicker. Ayton probably a little more skilled around the interior. Ayton is probably a poor man's Robinson but not that far off. Once it came time for playoff basketball Robinson's thin frame always struggled on offense while Ayton seems like he would've been built a bit better.

[KobesAchilles]

Imagine writing all those articles saying that Suns were right to pass on Luka :lol

[Dex]

This is the same guy that said on ESPN that Middleton is Batman and Giannis is Robin.

Yes, he seriously called the guy who just put up 50 points with amazing defense to clinch the title a Robin.

Then he doubled down on it when people tried to call him out.

No one should every listen to any basketball take Kendrick Perkins has to make. Dude would be irrelevant if KG/Allen/Pierce hadn't carried his fat ass to a ring.

[Phenomanul]

It's not necessarily a dumb comparison. Ayton has played better and better and made a big jump this season. Remember that he came into the league after one year of college and he didn't even play the whole college season. David Robinson came into the NBA after 4 years of college and a stint with the Navy. David Robinson was physically mature and NBA ready the minute he came in the league, so to make an apt comparison to Ayton, you'd have to wonder how good David would have been as a college sophomore coming into the league. Under that standard, after two years in the NBA and one year of college, it's not a wild comparison to think that's what David Robinson would look like. Especially you have to consider that the NBA game in David's era favored big men and Ayton is playing in an era that disfavors big men.

But Robinson ran the floor more akin to Giannis than any other big man in the league today... he wasn't a traditional back-to-the-basket type big.

[Dex]

Good points. David was more athletic and quicker. Ayton probably a little more skilled around the interior. Ayton is probably a poor man's Robinson but not that far off. Once it came time for playoff basketball Robinson's thin frame always struggled on offense while Ayton seems like he would've been built a bit better.

I'd say he's way far off. Robinson could create his own offense and was an elite rim protector. He was an MVP, a staple in All-NBA and All-Defense, and carried the Spurs on his back for like 10 years.

I actually really like Ayton and obviously he still has time to develop, but he really disappeared in these Finals.

If he didn't have Paul or Booker feeding him the ball in his spots, he just looked invisible on offense other than a few brief spurts.

Time will tell, but Ayton has a long ways to go to be anywhere near Robinson's level.

[rjv]

i don't buy the admiral comparisons. david was an athletic freak who ran the court way better than ayton does. and david was also a beast defensively.

[Uriel]

Kendrick Perkins trying to be the next Skip Bayless is just bizarre.

[baseline bum]

It's not necessarily a dumb comparison. Ayton has played better and better and made a big jump this season. Remember that he came into the league after one year of college and he didn't even play the whole college season. David Robinson came into the NBA after 4 years of college and a stint with the Navy. David Robinson was physically mature and NBA ready the minute he came in the league, so to make an apt comparison to Ayton, you'd have to wonder how good David would have been as a college sophomore coming into the league. Under that standard, after two years in the NBA and one year of college, it's not a wild comparison to think that's what David Robinson would look like. Especially you have to consider that the NBA game in David's era favored big men and Ayton is playing in an era that disfavors big men.

Ayton's not half the athlete Robinson was. To this day Giannis is the only bigman in league history in the same class of athleticism as David.

[baseline bum]

Good points. David was more athletic and quicker. Ayton probably a little more skilled around the interior. Ayton is probably a poor man's Robinson but not that far off. Once it came time for playoff basketball Robinson's thin frame always struggled on offense while Ayton seems like he would've been built a bit better.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you're just too young to have watched Robinson night in and night out in his prime.

[rjv]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you're just too young to have watched Robinson night in and night out in his prime.

that's what i was thinking; maybe some posters never really saw david in his prime. because david was a much better player-in every way. (btw, the phoenix fan base is bashing ayton today.)

[pad300]

Ayton's not half the athlete Robinson was. To this day Giannis is the only bigman in league history in the same class of athleticism as David.

The ghost of Wilt says you forgot about him...

[PrimeMinister]

Ayton does not resemble the admiral in hardly any aspect of the actual game. It was a half baked, trying to be hot take that doesn’t even make sense. It was just brain soup from a dude trying to muster up the first dominant big man that came to his mind that wasn’t shaq.

Giannis is the evolution of the framework David laid in the 90s. They have some differing strengths and weaknesses but from the standpoint of physicality, presence at the rim, open court ability, they are the 2 analogues. David was more skilled as a shooter, better fundamentally as a scorer in the half court either from the high post or the block, whereas giannis initiates more from the perimeter and has a little more switchability on defense but is most effective in the paint.

Put those dudes in their athletic primes next to each other. Compare their measurables. Look at their frames and ability in the open court. There’s never going to be a perfect comparison but it’s such a lay up as a pundit, it speaks volumes perk missed.

[Mr. Body]

ESPN 'personalities' are supposed to drag small-market teams and support the big markets whenever they can. That's what their instructions are. It's a TMZ organization that couldn't care less about the actual sport.

[John B]

The guy is tripping. Ayton doesn’t have the freakish athletic skills that DRob had, fast like a gazelle. Giannis is more like it on the athletic side, except Giannis has more guard moves. I really cannot see anyone in today’s NBA like DRob.

[SpursDynasty85]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you're just too young to have watched Robinson night in and night out in his prime.

It's really hard to compare generations. But the point that Robinson was not nearly as good when he was 21 compared to when he was 25 seemed pretty sound. Dude bulked up a good amount throughout his years and tried hard to hone his game but his athleticism was still 70% of his effectiveness and he always underperformed the alpha role in the playoffs because of it. Ayton would certainly be utilized much better in the early 90's than he is being used now a days. As another just said, time will tell.

[baseline bum]

The ghost of Wilt says you forgot about him...

Yeah you're right, Wilt was a better athlete than either David or Giannis. Don't know how I forgot him.

[CGD]

I mean, that they won yesterday doesn't mean that they also didnt play DUMBLY over key stretch in the playoffs. Let's be honest.

They looked God awful in stretches. It wasn't until Giannis realized he was doing the opposing team a HUGE favor when he shot that 3 ball (open for a reason bud!), that they actually started looking dominant. Bud also got some memo in the finals about how to make some in game adjustments like putting Holiday on Booker last night.

All that said, congrats to the Bucks. Seeing Giannis carrying that team yesterday reminded me of the 2003 finals when Timmy had that near quadruple double, while carrying a so-so supporting cast.

[Dirks_Finale]

Perkins also said the Suns were a dynasty in the making when they went up 2-0:lol

[MultiTroll]

If he didn't have Paul or Booker feeding him the ball in his spots, he just looked invisible on offense other than a few brief spurts.

Time will tell, but Ayton has a long ways to go to be anywhere near Robinson's level.
Feeding him the ball?
Kobme wannabe and dribble dribble dribble Paul could have set Ayton up way more imo.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Kendrick Perkins is nearly as dumb as Jalen Rose who's nearly as dumb as Jay Williams.

[paperboy77]

Robinson had a pure jumpshot. Ayton doesn't have any skill like that.

At a minimum. Robinson was an all time great.

[paperboy77]

Ayton is great, but he's closer to a traditional big man, lmao. The Admiral was an athlete anomaly closer to .. Giannis if anyone from today's league :downspin:

Only faster, better on ball defender, better passer, shot locker and had a really good j.

[tonight...you]

At a minimum. Robinson was an all time great.
He really was.

[Spurtacular]

Kendrick Perkins trying to be the next Skip Bayless is just bizarre.

Nothing bizarre about that. There's a lot of money on the table for that position.

[tmtcsc]

Kendrick Persons is not a smart man. Giannis is a poor man's David Robinson in my opinion. Ayton isn't even in the conversation.

[Dex]

Wzq2mND_f6s

Jalen Rose called Perkins out this morning, and this jackass still does nothing but bumble and fumble through sentences about how he’s right and everyone else is wrong. Greenie straight up just got out of his chair and walked away :lmao

[Chucho]

They should have drafted Doncic.

To get swept in 1st rounds for 85% of the time he's under contract with them?

Luka is the epitome of Dallas sports- so much hype, promise and help BUT, in the end, he'll let his believers down like pall-bearers are wont to do and as have Dallas fans have come accustomed to.

[Chucho]

Seriously. Dunno who is going to be the bigger overpaid Dallas bust; Luka or Dak.

Also, Dallas fans should be called fag-pinatas because, when kicked in the ass, countless dicks fall out.

[John B]

Kendrick Persons is not a smart man. Giannis is a poor man's David Robinson in my opinion. Ayton isn't even in the conversation.

I love DRob, became a Spurs fan because of his rookie year. But you have to give Giannis some love. Giannis has better guard skills than DRob, but of course 2 inches shorter. Also as much as I love DRob, I can’t say he had that “ump” to get it to the next level like Timmy, MJ, Kobe and now Giannis. I mentioned before, maybe the admiral was “too nice,” didn’t take basketball seriously with other hobbies. I don’t know. But I would bet, Timmy rings with the 1995 roster in DRob’s place, Avery, Del Negro, Elliot, Rodman, Doc Rivers, Anderson, Chuck Pearson, JR Reid, Cummings, Moses Malone (albeit at 90 yrs old). That’s a pretty solid group.

Yeah, DRob was a freak athlete with “good” guard skills, ahead of his time, the 1st one I saw imo, but with big man moves. Giannis, freakish athletes with SF/PF moves. Ayton, not as freakish athlete as the two with more traditional big man moves. Different games imo.

[lefty]

I love DRob, became a Spurs fan because of his rookie year. But you have to give Giannis some love. Giannis has better guard skills than DRob, but of course 2 inches shorter. Also as much as I love DRob, I can’t say he had that “ump” to get it to the next level like Timmy, MJ, Kobe and now Giannis. I mentioned before, maybe the admiral was “too nice,” didn’t take basketball seriously with other hobbies. I don’t know. But I would bet, Timmy rings with the 1995 roster in DRob’s place, Avery, Del Negro, Elliot, Rodman, Doc Rivers, Anderson, Chuck Pearson, JR Reid, Cummings, Moses Malone (albeit at 90 yrs old). That’s a pretty solid group.

Yeah, DRob was a freak athlete with “good” guard skills, ahead of his time, the 1st one I saw imo, but with big man moves. Giannis, freakish athletes with SF/PF moves. Ayton, not as freakish athlete as the two with more traditional big man moves. Different games imo.
lol no

[Spurtacular]

I love DRob, became a Spurs fan because of his rookie year. But you have to give Giannis some love. Giannis has better guard skills than DRob, but of course 2 inches shorter. Also as much as I love DRob, I can’t say he had that “ump” to get it to the next level like Timmy, MJ, Kobe and now Giannis. I mentioned before, maybe the admiral was “too nice,” didn’t take basketball seriously with other hobbies. I don’t know. But I would bet, Timmy rings with the 1995 roster in DRob’s place, Avery, Del Negro, Elliot, Rodman, Doc Rivers, Anderson, Chuck Pearson, JR Reid, Cummings, Moses Malone (albeit at 90 yrs old). That’s a pretty solid group.

Yeah, DRob was a freak athlete with “good” guard skills, ahead of his time, the 1st one I saw imo, but with big man moves. Giannis, freakish athletes with SF/PF moves. Ayton, not as freakish athlete as the two with more traditional big man moves. Different games imo.

D-Rob didn't have a Middleton and a Holiday, tbh. Not only that, D-Rob played in an all-time bigs era. Would be hard to see Giannis replicating the success against D-Rob, Olajuwon, Ewing, Shaq, etc. He could've been more like T-Wolves Garnett against all that.

[cd98]

To say that Ayton is David Robinson right now is way off. But Ayton may be a dominant center in his own right over the next couple of years. David Robinson didn't come into the league as a sophomore. He came into the league at 24. Ayton came into the league at 19. This year during the finals, he was 22 years old. So we'll have to see what he becomes in two years. Then you can start to do an apt comparison to Robinson. If you are comparing 22 year old Ayton to 24+ David Robinson, then no, it's not an apt comparison. But would a 22 year old Robinson be better in today's NBA game if he only had one year of college? I don't know. David was a great player. It's hard to compare players in different eras, but Ayton was treated like a bust after his first year of being drafted, but he clearly became a better player this year and is on a positive trajectory in an era where big men don't have favorable rules like they did when David played. But Ayton can get to David's level. He has the tools to be that level of a star.

[KobesAchilles]

I love DRob, became a Spurs fan because of his rookie year. But you have to give Giannis some love. Giannis has better guard skills than DRob, but of course 2 inches shorter. Also as much as I love DRob, I can’t say he had that “ump” to get it to the next level like Timmy, MJ, Kobe and now Giannis. I mentioned before, maybe the admiral was “too nice,” didn’t take basketball seriously with other hobbies. I don’t know. But I would bet, Timmy rings with the 1995 roster in DRob’s place, Avery, Del Negro, Elliot, Rodman, Doc Rivers, Anderson, Chuck Pearson, JR Reid, Cummings, Moses Malone (albeit at 90 yrs old). That’s a pretty solid group.

Yeah, DRob was a freak athlete with “good” guard skills, ahead of his time, the 1st one I saw imo, but with big man moves. Giannis, freakish athletes with SF/PF moves. Ayton, not as freakish athlete as the two with more traditional big man moves. Different games imo.
Literally the only thing solid about that group was Dave. Aj and Vinny might possibly be the worst starting backcourt of all time. Seriously, I can’t understate how bad they were. Every single point guard and shooting guard torched us bc those two pieces of shit couldn’t guard a shadow. Was Cummings on the team in 95? I don’t remember that. But Moses sucked and Doc was on his last legs as well. I’ve never heard anybody ever say J.R. Reid was good. Maybe you are thinking of him in college but as a pro he was underwhelming.

I hate the media narrative that Dave didn’t care or didn’t have killer instinct bc it’s a stupid one and you would think a Spurs fan would know better. It wasn’t that Dave didn’t have “killer instinct” it’s that he had the worst ownership in the nba outside of Sterling and tbh we were Sterling level bad during that timeframe. We put ZERO money into helping Dave. We could’ve had Charles Barkley but nope didn’t want to pay him. We didn’t want to pay Strickland so we got Avery fucking Johnson as a replacement. We didn’t want to pay any player so we just got a buncha washed up vets and players that should never have been starters and ownership knew that as long as we had Dave we would be a playoff team. We hired a coach simply bc (and this is a direct fucking quote) bc ownership knew we could pay him the least amount of money.

And in the 95 season it’s pretty common knowledge that Rodman sabotaged the team and quit 3 of the 6 games of that series. To this day, Doc Rivers doesn’t talk to Dennis. Also Dave was double/triple teamed 80% of the time he had the ball and we refused to double team Hakeem. We did the reverse where we single coverages Hakeem 80% of the time. It’s basically what the Suns did to Giannis this last series and what do you know, that shit doesn’t work against an all time great.

[Rosewood]

This dude is retarded, tbh.

As many have said here, comparing Giannis to Admiral would've been a more accurate comparison. Except Robinson had a better shot. He would've mauled in today's league with today's centers and today's rules.

And I like Ayton.

[baseline bum]

I love DRob, became a Spurs fan because of his rookie year. But you have to give Giannis some love. Giannis has better guard skills than DRob, but of course 2 inches shorter. Also as much as I love DRob, I can’t say he had that “ump” to get it to the next level like Timmy, MJ, Kobe and now Giannis. I mentioned before, maybe the admiral was “too nice,” didn’t take basketball seriously with other hobbies. I don’t know. But I would bet, Timmy rings with the 1995 roster in DRob’s place, Avery, Del Negro, Elliot, Rodman, Doc Rivers, Anderson, Chuck Pearson, JR Reid, Cummings, Moses Malone (albeit at 90 yrs old). That’s a pretty solid group.

Yeah, DRob was a freak athlete with “good” guard skills, ahead of his time, the 1st one I saw imo, but with big man moves. Giannis, freakish athletes with SF/PF moves. Ayton, not as freakish athlete as the two with more traditional big man moves. Different games imo.

Del Negro was horrible, what a disgrace to run that pos in an NBA starting lineup. Charmin soft, played no defense, didn't shoot the three much (always loved shooting long twos with a foot on the line), and was wildly inconsistent. And we're not talking 1999 AJ who would make people pay for leaving him open, 1995 AJ had no jumpshot whatsoever. The 1995 Spurs were horrendous in the backcourt thanks to Red McCombs getting cheap and letting Strickland walk for nothing three years before.

Did you even watch that series? Rodman was a liability to the team. Game 1 he left his man Horry wide open for the game winner because he wanted to run to the rim to stat pad his rebound numbers, like he always did. Game 2 he started jacking up wild threes, three of them in the first quarter, to force Bob Hill to bench him. After blowing the first two games at home Spurs go into Houston and even up the series 2-2 and everyone thinks the Spurs are back, Rodman decided to pick another fight with coach Hill by being late for practice before Game 5 and gets benched. Rodman was a cancer.

I have always been a big Chuck Person fan, but he sucked that playoffs, went ice cold. Still sad he got traded before the 99 season though, I think he would have been awesome on that team. And I love Terry Cummings, one of the two or three most underrated Spurs players ever, but dude blew out his knee in 1992 (and right after the Spurs shot down trading him and Willie Anderson for Barkley, ouch) and was a shell of his former self after that injury.

So basically the starting lineup was Robinson, Elliott, and three huge liabilities coached by a retard who kept getting in pissing matches with Rodman (which is likely why David and AJ wanted Pop to fire him). Don't think Duncan is ringing with that squad with the way Hakeem went nuclear and with the Rockets having such a strong backcourt with Drexler, Smith, Cassell, and Elie. All four of them were way better than any guard on the Spurs roster.

[Chomag]

Drob was a monster back in the day im not taking any of that away , but Drob would have completely destroyed fools in today's NBA.

[Spurssparty]

Kendrick Persons is not a smart man. Giannis is a poor man's David Robinson in my opinion. Ayton isn't even in the conversation.

You guys can be serious homers at times lol

[Spurssparty]

Seriously. Dunno who is going to be the bigger overpaid Dallas bust; Luka or Dak.

Also, Dallas fans should be called fag-pinatas because, when kicked in the ass, countless dicks fall out.

Come on lol. Luka is light years better than Dak.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Ayton is nothing without CP3 lobbing him dimes.

I can't stand Perkins. Robinson is similar to Giannis.

[J_Paco]

You guys can be serious homers at times lol

Giannis is literally the PF version of big Dave w/o the mid range j.

Yet, Giannis has a better handle/playmaking skills than big Dave ever did.

It is beyond stupid to say a guy that is a 2-time MVP, DPOY & Finals MVP at 26 years old is the "poor man's" anything.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Yeah, Giannis isn't a poor man's DRob, he's what DRob would look like if he played in today's NBA.

[SequSpur]

Is this a Spurs forum or a Suns forum? Fuck Ayton, he pussed out and lost, fo

[CGD]

Yeah, Giannis isn't a poor man's DRob, he's what DRob would look like if he played in today's NBA.

I agree, I think the people trying to compare him to Shaq are being lazy. Go back and look at a YouTube of Dave’s 94-95 MVP season. The combination of speed, power around rim, and even post moves are really similar. I bet if it was a thing people did then, Dave could have picked up the Giannis euro step too. Of course David was a much better shooter, but the comp seems like the right one.

[Phenomanul]

New Spurs fans who never even saw the Admiral play should not be allowed to compare him to anyone. YouTube can only show so much.

[daslicer]

I agree, I think the people trying to compare him to Shaq are being lazy. Go back and look at a YouTube of Dave’s 94-95 MVP season. The combination of speed, power around rim, and even post moves are really similar. I bet if it was a thing people did then, Dave could have picked up the Giannis euro step too. Of course David was a much better shooter, but the comp seems like the right one.

Dave is the reason why I became a Spurs fan but Giannis is definitely not Dave. Dave didn't have the ability to physically bully guys in the paint like Giannis does. Giannis literally can move guys all the way under the basket by backing them down. That's something Dave never had the ability to do.

[Phenomanul]

Dave is the reason why I became a Spurs fan but Giannis is definitely not Dave. Dave didn't have the ability to physically bully guys in the paint like Giannis does. Giannis literally can move guys all the way under the basket by backing them down. That's something Dave never had the ability to do.

Different eras... Giannis would not be able to back down heavier bigs (Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, Mourning, etc...).

[tmtcsc]

You guys can be serious homers at times lol

Lol, you never saw David Robinson in his prime I take it. To call me a homer for saying a Top 50 player, Olympic Gold Winner, Unanimous Rookie of the Year & League MVP is "Giannis Light" is just ignorant. During his career he won the rebounding title, scoring title, DPOY & went up against Olajuwon, Ewing and Shaq in their primes. He had little to no help but stuck with the franchise. Hell, because he sat out 2 years for his Naval duties, he could have entered the league his rookie year as a Free Agent but chose to stay with the Spurs. That's loyalty. World Class guy and athlete.


https://youtu.be/f1i8K-u0yFo

[barakz21]

Sigh.. I remember playing 2K18 and managing to get Ayton AND Doncic. Multiple championships abounded.

[tmtcsc]

Dave is the reason why I became a Spurs fan but Giannis is definitely not Dave. Dave didn't have the ability to physically bully guys in the paint like Giannis does. Giannis literally can move guys all the way under the basket by backing them down. That's something Dave never had the ability to do.

He didn't have to bully guys out of the paint, he threw down alley-oops on their heads. Giannis just runs in to people. He has very little post moves. This wasn't intended to be a bash Giannis thread but lets be honest, he has a lot of improving to do before he enters the Top 50 all time conversation.

Good stuff here: https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/giannis_antetokounmpo_vs_david_robinson.htm

[daslicer]

Different eras... Giannis would not be able to back down heavier bigs (Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, Mourning, etc...).

Drummond is not a great defender but he is a legit 280. I saw Giannis a few years ago in the playoffs straight up manhandle Drummond. That's when I first noticed his ridiculous strength. They were a few plays where he easily backed him down under the basket and got a dunk or lay up. Shaq is the only guy who is heavier than 280 out of the guys you listed. Giannis would be able to do the same to the rest of those guys.

[daslicer]

He didn't have to bully guys out of the paint, he threw down alley-oops on their heads. Giannis just runs in to people. He has very little post moves. This wasn't intended to be a bash Giannis thread but lets be honest, he has a lot of improving to do before he enters the Top 50 all time conversation.

Good stuff here: https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/giannis_antetokounmpo_vs_david_robinson.htm

He didn't have the physical ability to back down guys in the post. That is really what separated Duncan from Drob was his ability back guys down in the post and score. Giannis doesn't have great foot work but he doesn't need it because he's so damn big that he can dislodge people by running into them or backing down. Giannis is already a top 50 player. The question is now will he able to crack the top 20.

[RD2191]

He didn't have the physical ability to back down guys in the post. That is really what separated Duncan from Drob was his ability back guys down in the post and score. Giannis doesn't have great foot work but he doesn't need it because he's so damn big that he can dislodge people by running into them or backing down. Giannis is already a top 50 player. The question is now will he able to crack the top 20.
:rollin

[daslicer]

:rollin

He is a top 50 player. There are already a few guys on the list that he's now clearly better than. I have the original NBA's top 50 list down below. I can say for sure he's already better than James Worthy, Sam Jones, Lenny Wilkens.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Nate Archibald
Paul Arizin
Charles Barkley
Rick Barry
Elgin Baylor
Dave Bing
Larry Bird
Wilt Chamberlain
Bob Cousy
Dave Cowens
Billy Cunningham
Dave DeBusschere
Clyde Drexler
Julius Erving
Patrick Ewing
Walt Frazier
George Gervin
Hal Greer
John Havlicek
Elvin Hayes
Magic Johnson
Sam Jones
Michael Jordan
Jerry Lucas
Karl Malone
Moses Malone
Pete Maravich
Kevin McHale
George Mikan
Earl Monroe
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O’Neal
Robert Parish
Bob Pettit
Scottie Pippen
Willis Reed
Oscar Robertson
David Robinson
Bill Russell
Dolph Schayes
Bill Sharman
John Stockton
Isiah Thomas
Nate Thurmond
Wes Unseld
Bill Walton
Jerry West
Lenny Wilkens
James Worthy

[tmtcsc]

He didn't have the physical ability to back down guys in the post. That is really what separated Duncan from Drob was his ability back guys down in the post and score. Giannis doesn't have great foot work but he doesn't need it because he's so damn big that he can dislodge people by running into them or backing down. Giannis is already a top 50 player. The question is now will he able to crack the top 20.

He had the physical ability, he just didn't have the patience or consistency. He used to post up his defender and then quickly spin and roll around them for a reverse, alley oop dunk. Other times he faced up to the basket and just quickly went around them. The thing that separated Duncan from Robinson was Duncan's excellent footwork. He was nowhere near as athletic as David but his footwork was stellar. I'm not sure why you think Giannis is so damn big compared to DRob. Drob was 2 inches taller and only 6 pounds lighter. He was faster, could jump higher and pass the ball better. He was also svelte with very little body fat. I think I read somewhere that he had a 32 inch waist. We've all seen what Olajuwon did to David in 1 playoff game but David held his own against Dream on both sides of the ball. Who does Giannis contend with in the East?

More David Dunks -
https://youtu.be/6oImSuz8v-I

[daslicer]

The thing that separated Duncan from Robinson was Duncan's excellent footwork. He was nowhere near as athletic as David but his footwork was stellar. I'm not sure why you think Giannis is so damn big compared to DRob. Drob was 2 inches taller and only 6 pounds lighter. He was faster, could jump higher and pass the ball better. He was also svelte with very little body fat. I think I read somewhere that he had a 32 inch waist. We've all seen what Olajuwon did to David in 1 playoff game but David held his own against Dream on both sides of the ball. Who does Giannis contend with in the East?

Duncan had wider shoulders which helps when it comes to backing people in the post. Duncan also was laterally quicker than David. I have seen Giannis push guys under the basket like I said before with Drummond. Dave never physically backed down guys under the basket. His game was all built on beating guys to the basket for lay ups and dunks but not bullying them.

[baseline bum]

Kendrick Persons is not a smart man. Giannis is a poor man's David Robinson in my opinion. Ayton isn't even in the conversation.

The man who just scored 50 to win a title ain't a poor man's nothing.

[Spurtacular]

I can say for sure he's already better than James Worthy, Sam Jones, Lenny Wilkens.


Let me know when Giannis shoots 64 FG (as a wing player) in an NBA Finals.

[KobesAchilles]

He didn't have the physical ability to back down guys in the post. That is really what separated Duncan from Drob was his ability back guys down in the post and score. Giannis doesn't have great foot work but he doesn't need it because he's so damn big that he can dislodge people by running into them or backing down. Giannis is already a top 50 player. The question is now will he able to crack the top 20.
I feel more like he wasn’t really taught that. He had the ability, saying otherwise is ridiculous. Dave was a monster in his latter days and could push around people. He pushed around KG. But he wasn’t taught the game of basketball and that’s really the amazing part of his game. The dude had 6 coaches in 5 years, was taught bball by the fucking Navy, and took 2 years off. It’s a miracle he was as good as he was tbh. Like people gave early Lebron shit too but he eventually learned and figured it out. If you kept Larry longer or transitioned to Daddy Rich as the coach then I think he would’ve learned how to play the game.

But to act like Dave couldn’t bully Draymond or someone is disingenuous to him. Players were able to actually hold on to you back then and able to use their elbows and forearms to guard you. Today it is literally a foul if you rest up on the post player or put a forearm on them. It’s hard as hell to guard in the post without these techniques.

[Spurtacular]

https://youtu.be/f1i8K-u0yFo

Jordan got out of the way to not be posterized. :lmao

[John B]

Two different players DRob and Greek Freak. Both athletic freaks. DRob played more big man moves, while Giannis has more guard (he did play as a PG). Different positions, no comparison. Ayton is NOT even in the conversation.

Giannis will be top 5 PF by the end of his career. Timmy is Tier 1, KG, Dirk and Giannis in Tier 2, and Malone, Barkeley in Tier 3.

Giannis is already top 50 greatest, 2x MVP, DPOY, Finals MVP, NBA Champion.

[daslicer]

I feel more like he wasn’t really taught that. He had the ability, saying otherwise is ridiculous. Dave was a monster in his latter days and could push around people. He pushed around KG. But he wasn’t taught the game of basketball and that’s really the amazing part of his game. The dude had 6 coaches in 5 years, was taught bball by the fucking Navy, and took 2 years off. It’s a miracle he was as good as he was tbh. Like people gave early Lebron shit too but he eventually learned and figured it out. If you kept Larry longer or transitioned to Daddy Rich as the coach then I think he would’ve learned how to play the game.

But to act like Dave couldn’t bully Draymond or someone is disingenuous to him. Players were able to actually hold on to you back then and able to use their elbows and forearms to guard you. Today it is literally a foul if you rest up on the post player or put a forearm on them. It’s hard as hell to guard in the post without these techniques.

I have been watching the NBA since 1991. So I don't know what Dave was like before then when it comes to his Navy days but I know of his game since '91 which was his second year in the league. Dave was physical with KG on defense and stood up to him but that has nothing to do with backing down an opponent in the post or over powering them. When I refer to posting up I'm talking about playing back to basket like Duncan did which was something Dave could never do. When I talk about overpowering I'm referring to how Shaq could throw his body into people and dislodge them and either get a dunk, lay up. Dave could not do that either.

Tim Duncan actually said in an interview this year on what he hates about the current game which I'm paraphrasing "Guys are still allowed to beat the crap out of bigmen but you are not allowed to play physical defense on the perimeter." Guys are still allowed to play physical in the post today. The refs allow you to still maul bigmen. What's changed is you can't hand check and play physical with perimeter players. Draymond Green is the best example of this considering he's allowed to always hack the shit out of bigmen and also grab them.

Dave would school Draymond today the same way he schooled other guys with was threw his super athletic abilities. He would drive by Draymond for dunks or layups and when he couldn't drive by he would hit his great midrange jump shot.

[daslicer]

Two different players DRob and Greek Freak. Both athletic freaks. DRob played more big man moves, while Giannis has more guard (he did play as a PG). Different positions, no comparison. Ayton is NOT even in the conversation.

Giannis will be top 5 PF by the end of his career. Timmy is Tier 1, KG, Dirk and Giannis in Tier 2, and Malone, Barkeley in Tier 3.

Giannis is already top 50 greatest, 2x MVP, DPOY, Finals MVP, NBA Champion.

Agreed I don't know how anybody can be that stupid to say he's not a top 50 player now. It sounds equally as stupid as the story Sean Elliot told a year ago about when the Spurs won the title in '03 that there was still a ton of people at ESPN that believe Duncan was not a sure thing for the Hall of Fame.

I get it that people hate Giannis game since it's all about brute force, and athletic ability along with it being ugly to watch but to say he's now not a top 50 player is pretty stupid after what he's accomplished. Very few guys will top his resume.

[KobesAchilles]

I have been watching the NBA since 1991. So I don't know what Dave was like before then when it comes to his Navy days but I know of his game since '91 which was his second year in the league. Dave was physical with KG on defense and stood up to him but that has nothing to do with backing down an opponent in the post or over powering them. When I refer to posting up I'm talking about playing back to basket like Duncan did which was something Dave could never do. When I talk about overpowering I'm referring to how Shaq could throw his body into people and dislodge them and either get a dunk, lay up. Dave could not do that either.

Tim Duncan actually said in an interview this year on what he hates about the current game which I'm paraphrasing "Guys are still allowed to beat the crap out bigmen but you are not allowed to play physical defense on the perimeter." Guys are still allowed to play physical in the post today. The refs allow you to still maul bigmen. What's changed is you can't hand check and play physical with perimeter players. Draymond Green is the best example of this considering he's allowed to always hack the shit out of bigmen and also grab them.

Dave would school Draymond today the same way he schooled other guys with was threw his super athletic abilities. He would drive by Draymond for dunks or layups and when he couldn't drive by he would hit his great midrange jump shot.
No I understand what you’re saying. I’m not saying that Dave was a back to the basket player. Although he did have a hook shot. But he was primarily a face up and go around you or fake post up and spin past you type of guy. I know all of that. What I’m saying is that literally nobody taught him how to play basketball like a big man. He grew something like 7 inches in 2 years and then played for Navy which just told him to jump at everything and dunk and use your athleticism. They didn’t actually teach him how to dominate. Like imagine if he played for Dean Smith instead.

And then he got to the pros and everyone saw his amazing potential but nobody took the time to have him live up to it and become this dominant player that he could’ve become bc nobody was there long enough or we just hired sucky coaches. I mean Tark lasted 17 games. How does that help D-Rob? I think Bass took over at some point. Lucas. These are horrible things to happen for a player to develop. So D-Rob was just like ok I’m gonna just go with what works, athletic ability and quickness. Hell even defensively, as great as he was, we didn’t really have a system other than Dave jumps for the block.

I guess what im saying is that Dave could have learned how to do this stuff. The 90s was extremely physical to make up for a lot of lack of talent from role players. He would’ve done much better in today’s NBA though where nobody knows how to post anyways and everyone plays soft defense. It’s not like Giannis knows how to post either. And what im saying is how the league is now filled with shorter centers or soft big men like Durant, I’m sure D-Rob could bully them. Like if you think he wouldn’t be able to push Durant around then idk what to tell you. Giannis wasn’t pushing around Ayton but going right around him. Also the rule I think was implemented this year where you can’t have your forearm on the guy. It’s a really recent rule.

[daslicer]

No I understand what you’re saying. I’m not saying that Dave was a back to the basket player. Although he did have a hook shot. But he was primarily a face up and go around you or fake post up and spin past you type of guy. I know all of that. What I’m saying is that literally nobody taught him how to play basketball like a big man. He grew something like 7 inches in 2 years and then played for Navy which just told him to jump at everything and dunk and use your athleticism. They didn’t actually teach him how to dominate. Like imagine if he played for Dean Smith instead.

And then he got to the pros and everyone saw his amazing potential but nobody took the time to have him live up to it and become this dominant player that he could’ve become bc nobody was there long enough or we just hired sucky coaches. I mean Tark lasted 17 games. How does that help D-Rob? I think Bass took over at some point. Lucas. These are horrible things to happen for a player to develop. So D-Rob was just like ok I’m gonna just go with what works, athletic ability and quickness. Hell even defensively, as great as he was, we didn’t really have a system other than Dave jumps for the block.

I guess what im saying is that Dave could have learned how to do this stuff. The 90s was extremely physical to make up for a lot of lack of talent from role players. He would’ve done much better in today’s NBA though where nobody knows how to post anyways and everyone plays soft defense. It’s not like Giannis knows how to post either. And what im saying is how the league is now filled with shorter centers or soft big men like Durant, I’m sure D-Rob could bully them. Like if you think he wouldn’t be able to push Durant around then idk what to tell you. Giannis wasn’t pushing around Ayton but going right around him. Also the rule I think was implemented this year where you can’t have your forearm on the guy. It’s a really recent rule.

I don't think Dave had the body to be a post up player even if you say no one taught him how to do it. Dave really didn't like physical play and getting hit. He was never a banger but more so a super athletic finesse player. People get deceived by Dave's great physique and think that he could be a power player inside but he didn't have the body like Tim to do it. Tim had wider shoulders and had a better base and center of gravity to operate from while Dave didn't have those physical attributes.

Giannis knows how to post up. I have seen him do it plenty of times. He knows how to get position on the block and back down guys. He may not have the footwork Tim did but he definitely can back down guys in the post. Go to 2:21 on the video down below and see him get post position against Simmons and back him down easily for the dunk. Dave never had the physical power and strength to do that type of move.
gJUxzKXVXQE

I don't know why you bring up the Durant example of guarding Dave. Durant would never guard Dave even in this current NBA. Dave would own Durant like he's always owned other people which is by driving by or around him for a dunk or layup. I don't know why it's hard for you to understand that Dave is not a power player. Another example of a power player I will give is Keldon Johnson granted Keldon is not a bigman but notice when Keldon drives into the paint he barrels into guys and initiates the contact knowing they are going to move back on contact which is going to create space for him when he attacks guys while facing up.

Actually I saw quite a few plays in the finals where Giannis literally went through Ayton. He would drive in the paint and bump him for either a layup or dunk. You can see in this play Giannis drives to the hole and bumps Ayton and then dunks the ball. They were also plays where Giannis used his speed to drive by and around Ayton for easy layups and dunks. Giannis has the ability to beat you with power and finesse which is why he's a very difficult player to guard.

nQ9AwqLn6Pg

1:12 Giannis backs down Ayton and gets a jumphook on him, 1:20 Giannis goes right through Ayton and gets hit but still scores despite not getting the call, 1:59 post up spin and one on Ayton, 2:30 post up's and overpowers Ayton.
wHPLeWsAQw4

In conclusion I'm not even knocking David for not having the power and post up game that Giannis had but just saying he just never had the physical ability to do it. Dave is still an all-time great somewhere ranked in the top 25 . He was a very talented player and I felt could have won it all in '95 had Rodman not gone AWOL in the WCF. The Spurs also were cheap during his prime and not willing to surround him with the right players to win. If they had gotten Barkley like some said or made the effort to get good guards then there is a high chance he could have ringed without Duncan.

[KobesAchilles]

I don't think Dave had the body to be a post up player even if you say no one taught him how to do it. Dave really didn't like physical play and getting hit. He was never a banger but more so a super athletic finesse player. People get deceived by Dave's great physique and think that he could be a power player inside but he didn't have the body like Tim to do it. Tim had wider shoulders and had a better base and center of gravity to operate from while Dave didn't have those physical attributes.

Giannis knows how to post up. I have seen him do it plenty of times. He knows how to get position on the block and back down guys. He may not have the footwork Tim did but he definitely can back down guys in the post. Go to 2:21 on the video down below and see him get post position against Simmons and back him down easily for the dunk. Dave never had the physical power and strength to do that type of move.
gJUxzKXVXQE

I don't know why you bring up the Durant example of guarding Dave. Durant would never guard Dave even in this current NBA. Dave would own Durant like he's always owned other people which is by driving by or around him for a dunk or layup. I don't know why it's hard for you to understand that Dave is not a power player. Another example of a power player I will give is Keldon Johnson granted Keldon is not a bigman but notice when Keldon drives into the paint he barrels into guys and initiates the contact knowing they are going to move back on contact which is going to create space for him when he attacks guys while facing up.

Actually I saw quite a few plays in the finals where Giannis literally went through Ayton. He would drive in the paint and bump him for either a layup or dunk. You can see in this play Giannis drives to the hole and bumps Ayton and then dunks the ball. They were also plays where Giannis used his speed to drive by and around Ayton for easy layups and dunks. Giannis has the ability to beat you with power and finesse which is why he's a very difficult player to guard.

nQ9AwqLn6Pg

1:12 Giannis backs down Ayton and gets a jumphook on him, 1:20 Giannis goes right through Ayton and gets hit but still scores despite not getting the call, 1:59 post up spin and one on Ayton, 2:30 post up's and overpowers Ayton.
wHPLeWsAQw4

In conclusion I'm not even knocking David for not having the power and post up game that Giannis had but just saying he just never had the physical ability to do it. Dave is still an all-time great somewhere ranked in the top 25 . He was a very talented player and I felt could have won it all in '95 had Rodman not gone AWOL in the WCF. The Spurs also were cheap during his prime and not willing to surround him with the right players to win. If they had gotten Barkley like some said or made the effort to get good guards then there is a high chance he could have ringed without Duncan.
We are gonna just have to disagree here. Giannis has a hook shot. That’s about it. Dave could also do a hook shot. He wasn’t known for it and it wasn’t his go to but he could do it. I mentioned Durant bc that’s who would switch onto Giannis when he was looking for a weakness. And Simmons is kinda my point. I think Dave would go right through Simmons. I’m not saying Dave is Shaq but you aren’t really recognizing that nobody knows how to play post defense anymore. I think in today’s game, Dave could post up if he had to. It would be kinda dumb but he could do it. I for sure think he could learn a fucking power dribble and go through a guy in today’s game. In the 90s he was going against legit big men every night. Ostertag, Hakeem, Mutumbo, Shaq, Mourning, Smits, Ewing, Duckworth. These are some big boys. I don’t think Giannis could go through these guys either. I for sure don’t see him barreling through Oakley and the Davis bros. Or Malone or even Barkley or Vin Baker. In today’s game, Giannis can push people around but back then i don’t think he could.

I don’t ever think the post would’ve been his bread and butter and tbh he posted quite fine. If you go back and watch the Houston series he was in the post. But as you know he just had such shitty teammates that posting up was stupid. It plays into the opponents hand. We had nobody that could make them pay for double or triple teaming Dave. It was so annoying to watch AJ or Vinny play. They hemorrhaged points and never made the defense honest.

I used to think Giannis played just like D-Rob or would be what D-Rob would be in today’s game but he has evolved into a different player. He is so much stronger than other players in the wussy nba and he is faster than any big man in pretty much any nba and has amazing handles for a big man. There is no player like Giannis. I don’t think Dave could learn to dribble like Giannis. He was also a better shooter than Giannis and Giannis likes to get dirty while like you said Dave doesn’t. But defensively Dave was just so much better it’s ridiculous. And he could hit free throws. I think that Giannis is being used more like Westbrook and Shaq combined and it’s awesome. Drive into the paint and just one man fast break it with your athleticism or bully people when you can’t. Smart of Bud to finally have Giannis in the post this postseason bc this is the first year he has actually played primarily from the post. Other years he was outside at the top of the key trying to create something or they had him as the dunk man. Phoenix was stupid though not to double team him :lol

[tonight...you]

We are gonna just have to disagree here. Giannis has a hook shot. That’s about it. Dave could also do a hook shot. He wasn’t known for it and it wasn’t his go to but he could do it. I mentioned Durant bc that’s who would switch onto Giannis when he was looking for a weakness. And Simmons is kinda my point. I think Dave would go right through Simmons. I’m not saying Dave is Shaq but you aren’t really recognizing that nobody knows how to play post defense anymore. I think in today’s game, Dave could post up if he had to. It would be kinda dumb but he could do it. I for sure think he could learn a fucking power dribble and go through a guy in today’s game. In the 90s he was going against legit big men every night. Ostertag, Hakeem, Mutumbo, Shaq, Mourning, Smits, Ewing, Duckworth. These are some big boys. I don’t think Giannis could go through these guys either. I for sure don’t see him barreling through Oakley and the Davis bros. Or Malone or even Barkley or Vin Baker. In today’s game, Giannis can push people around but back then i don’t think he could.

I don’t ever think the post would’ve been his bread and butter and tbh he posted quite fine. If you go back and watch the Houston series he was in the post. But as you know he just had such shitty teammates that posting up was stupid. It plays into the opponents hand. We had nobody that could make them pay for double or triple teaming Dave. It was so annoying to watch AJ or Vinny play. They hemorrhaged points and never made the defense honest.

I used to think Giannis played just like D-Rob or would be what D-Rob would be in today’s game but he has evolved into a different player. He is so much stronger than other players in the wussy nba and he is faster than any big man in pretty much any nba and has amazing handles for a big man. There is no player like Giannis. I don’t think Dave could learn to dribble like Giannis. He was also a better shooter than Giannis and Giannis likes to get dirty while like you said Dave doesn’t. But defensively Dave was just so much better it’s ridiculous. And he could hit free throws. I think that Giannis is being used more like Westbrook and Shaq combined and it’s awesome. Drive into the paint and just one man fast break it with your athleticism or bully people when you can’t. Smart of Bud to finally have Giannis in the post this postseason bc this is the first year he has actually played primarily from the post. Other years he was outside at the top of the key trying to create something or they had him as the dunk man. Phoenix was stupid though not to double team him :lol
Malone would just elbow Giannis in the head and follow it up with some crotch shots by Stockton.
And then Malone would hack his huge arms down on old boy's forearms as hard as he could to soften him up repeatedly.
That Utah team was so dirty...

[daslicer]

Malone would just elbow Giannis in the head and follow it up with some crotch shots by Stockton.
And then Malone would hack his huge arms down on old boy's forearms as hard as he could to soften him up repeatedly.
That Utah team was so dirty...

Giannis has a mean streak in him unlike Dave. He would have definitely hit Malone back after taking a dirty elbow from him. Malone is a guy who would freeze up whenever a guy was a brave enough to stand up to him . Hence him having meltdowns against Rasheed Wallace.

[daslicer]

We are gonna just have to disagree here. Giannis has a hook shot. That’s about it. Dave could also do a hook shot. He wasn’t known for it and it wasn’t his go to but he could do it. I mentioned Durant bc that’s who would switch onto Giannis when he was looking for a weakness. And Simmons is kinda my point. I think Dave would go right through Simmons. I’m not saying Dave is Shaq but you aren’t really recognizing that nobody knows how to play post defense anymore. I think in today’s game, Dave could post up if he had to. It would be kinda dumb but he could do it. I for sure think he could learn a fucking power dribble and go through a guy in today’s game. In the 90s he was going against legit big men every night. Ostertag, Hakeem, Mutumbo, Shaq, Mourning, Smits, Ewing, Duckworth. These are some big boys. I don’t think Giannis could go through these guys either. I for sure don’t see him barreling through Oakley and the Davis bros. Or Malone or even Barkley or Vin Baker. In today’s game, Giannis can push people around but back then i don’t think he could.

I don’t ever think the post would’ve been his bread and butter and tbh he posted quite fine. If you go back and watch the Houston series he was in the post. But as you know he just had such shitty teammates that posting up was stupid. It plays into the opponents hand. We had nobody that could make them pay for double or triple teaming Dave. It was so annoying to watch AJ or Vinny play. They hemorrhaged points and never made the defense honest.

I used to think Giannis played just like D-Rob or would be what D-Rob would be in today’s game but he has evolved into a different player. He is so much stronger than other players in the wussy nba and he is faster than any big man in pretty much any nba and has amazing handles for a big man. There is no player like Giannis. I don’t think Dave could learn to dribble like Giannis. He was also a better shooter than Giannis and Giannis likes to get dirty while like you said Dave doesn’t. But defensively Dave was just so much better it’s ridiculous. And he could hit free throws. I think that Giannis is being used more like Westbrook and Shaq combined and it’s awesome. Drive into the paint and just one man fast break it with your athleticism or bully people when you can’t. Smart of Bud to finally have Giannis in the post this postseason bc this is the first year he has actually played primarily from the post. Other years he was outside at the top of the key trying to create something or they had him as the dunk man. Phoenix was stupid though not to double team him :lol

Yes we are going to have to agree to disagree.

1. You pretty much moved the goal post when I proved Giannis plays back to basket by basically saying "Well he couldn't do this during the 90's because the guys were bigger back then." Why wouldn't Giannis be able to go through Ostertag,Hakeem,Mutumbo,Mourning,Ewing,Smits,Duckw orth. They are all in the same weight class as Andre Drummond and he easily went through Drummond a bunch of times. I have seen Giannis also go through Embiid who is listed at 280. The only guy I don't see him being able to go through is Shaq. I don't get why you listed Smits. Smits was slow as fuck. Giannis could just go by him easily on every possession. I grew up in NC watching the Hornets and saw both Mourning and LJ have their way with Oakley in the paint. Oakley was just a dirty thug that would give hard fouls but both of those guys took turns abusing him. Giannis is bigger than LJ and is the same size as ZO. ZO was able to post up and bang in the paint I don't see why Giannis wouldn't be able to do it in the 90's. The only case you have with the Davis bros and Oakley is that they could have injured Giannis with their dirty flagrant fouls but he would've adjusted and gave it back to them since he's a pretty big guy.

2. Dave couldn't post up it had nothing to with having shitty teammates. He was never a post up player like Hakeem,Duncan,Shaq where you could throw the ball on the block for an iso play.

3. The problem with doubling Giannis is that now he has become a better playmaker. He's good at finding the open man. I don't think there is a team that is currently assembled to defend Giannis right now. You need at least one super athletic big that can stay in front of him along with a strong rim protector in the paint waiting for him much like Toronto had with Ibaka-Gasol-Siakam in '19. With that being said the Bucks can still lose next year to the Nets simply because they don't have the offensive firepower to contend with them when they are healthy. You could have a series where Giannis is averaging 30-40 against the nets but his team still loses.

[Spurtacular]

Giannis has a hook shot.

Calling that push shot a hook is generous, tbh.

[Phenomanul]

Yes we are going to have to agree to disagree.

1. You pretty much moved the goal post when I proved Giannis plays back to basket by basically saying "Well he couldn't do this during the 90's because the guys were bigger back then." Why wouldn't Giannis be able to go through Ostertag,Hakeem,Mutumbo,Mourning,Ewing,Smits,Duckw orth. They are all in the same weight class as Andre Drummond and he easily went through Drummond a bunch of times. I have seen Giannis also go through Embiid who is listed at 280. The only guy I don't see him being able to go through is Shaq. I don't get why you listed Smits. Smits was slow as fuck. Giannis could just go by him easily on every possession. I grew up in NC watching the Hornets and saw both Mourning and LJ have their way with Oakley in the paint. Oakley was just a dirty thug that would give hard fouls but both of those guys took turns abusing him. Giannis is bigger than LJ and is the same size as ZO. ZO was able to post up and bang in the paint I don't see why Giannis wouldn't be able to do it in the 90's. The only case you have with the Davis bros and Oakley is that they could have injured Giannis with their dirty flagrant fouls but he would've adjusted and gave it back to them since he's a pretty big guy.

2. Dave couldn't post up it had nothing to with having shitty teammates. He was never a post up player like Hakeem,Duncan,Shaq where you could throw the ball on the block for an iso play.

3. The problem with doubling Giannis is that now he has become a better playmaker. He's good at finding the open man. I don't think there is a team that is currently assembled to defend Giannis right now. You need at least one super athletic big that can stay in front of him along with a strong rim protector in the paint waiting for him much like Toronto had with Ibaka-Gasol-Siakam in '19. With that being said the Bucks can still lose next year to the Nets simply because they don't have the offensive firepower to contend with them when they are healthy. You could have a series where Giannis is averaging 30-40 against the nets but his team still loses.

History will say that Giannis knew how to find the open man simply because the stat book will show that assists were obtained. Giannis is surrounded by way better shooters than Dave ever had, it isn’t even close. The context is needed because it’s what is driving this comparison. Again, different eras…

[KobesAchilles]

Yes we are going to have to agree to disagree.

1. You pretty much moved the goal post when I proved Giannis plays back to basket by basically saying "Well he couldn't do this during the 90's because the guys were bigger back then." Why wouldn't Giannis be able to go through Ostertag,Hakeem,Mutumbo,Mourning,Ewing,Smits,Duckw orth. They are all in the same weight class as Andre Drummond and he easily went through Drummond a bunch of times. I have seen Giannis also go through Embiid who is listed at 280. The only guy I don't see him being able to go through is Shaq. I don't get why you listed Smits. Smits was slow as fuck. Giannis could just go by him easily on every possession. I grew up in NC watching the Hornets and saw both Mourning and LJ have their way with Oakley in the paint. Oakley was just a dirty thug that would give hard fouls but both of those guys took turns abusing him. Giannis is bigger than LJ and is the same size as ZO. ZO was able to post up and bang in the paint I don't see why Giannis wouldn't be able to do it in the 90's. The only case you have with the Davis bros and Oakley is that they could have injured Giannis with their dirty flagrant fouls but he would've adjusted and gave it back to them since he's a pretty big guy.

2. Dave couldn't post up it had nothing to with having shitty teammates. He was never a post up player like Hakeem,Duncan,Shaq where you could throw the ball on the block for an iso play.

3. The problem with doubling Giannis is that now he has become a better playmaker. He's good at finding the open man. I don't think there is a team that is currently assembled to defend Giannis right now. You need at least one super athletic big that can stay in front of him along with a strong rim protector in the paint waiting for him much like Toronto had with Ibaka-Gasol-Siakam in '19. With that being said the Bucks can still lose next year to the Nets simply because they don't have the offensive firepower to contend with them when they are healthy. You could have a series where Giannis is averaging 30-40 against the nets but his team still loses.

I’m not moving the goal post at all. I said in today’s nba Dave would be able to post up some. Bc today’s nba is softer. I also think that Dave could power dribble through Ben Simmons rather easy. You mention Drummond who is a bench player who didn’t even start for the Lakers (until AD went down) and Embiid. But Giannis didn’t face Embiid and who gives a fuck about Embiid when the dude is a walking injury. It would be stupid of Dave to post Embiid when he’s so much faster than him. Giannis has to do it bc he has no jumper and they can build that wall. D-Rob could fucking post up Simmons or a Collins or Durant (who plays the 5 in their small ball line up and guarded Giannis)

Also Dave could post up. I saw him do it. He wasn’t the best at it and wasn’t like Kareem or Hakeem but to say he couldn’t do it is a lie. Dave had a hook shot posting up. YouTube his 1995 season (im too stupid to know how to post videos off an iPhone) and the first plays you see are of him posting up. He posted up all the fucking time. He just did spin moves and finger rolls and hook shots instead of Tim Duncan line moves

I mentioned the teammates bc the key to beating the Spurs from 90-95 was just to double and triple team Robinson. I mean look what Golden St did to him they damn near sent the whole team on him. And it worked. Dude could only get up like 12-15 shots a game. But when you are surrounded by shooters like Giannis or Hakeem then double teaming doesn’t work as well. The only reason the wall works against Giannis is bc Middleton and company missed every time he passed it out.

But like i said Giannis is like Westbrook more than any other player. Get to the hole at all costs. Fuck the jumpers and just relentless as a player. Now he mixing in some Shaq by just pushing people around and it’s awesome to watch.