Random Thoughts After Spurs Pick Joshua Primo 12th Overall

[objective]

I still can't wrap my head around this pick ...

-Primo's value was mostly due to the thinking that if he had gone back to Alabama and played really well, he probably becomes a late lottery pick in 2022. He wasn't going to become a high lottery pick because he doesn't have the physical tools to be a high lottery pick -- but he could have gone back to Alabama and worked himself into that 10 to 15 range if all went well.

-Primo decides to stick in the draft after elevating his stock from the middle of the second round to the end of the first or beginning of the second. Teams drafting in that range would have viewed him as a pretty good investment, with the logic being that they'd spend a ~28th pick in 2021 on a guy who had like a 50/50 shot of being a ~12th pick in 2022. That math checks out.

-But ... the Spurs pick him instead with a late lottery pick in 2021. Trying to get that logic to work is difficult. For it to make sense, they have to be like 100% certain he is going to make that big jump. Without that big jump, there was no way he was going to be a lottery pick next year -- he would be a second rounder to undrafted without a sizeable leap forward. Picking him in the lottery this year made so little sense that Primo himself was shocked. I don't remember seeing a lottery pick who was so blown away by being picked in the lottery. I bet his agent was equally as stunned :lol

So, yeah, just a real head-scratcher. One scenario that may make sense is that the Spurs really wanted a developmental perimeter shooter. The two developmental perimeter shooters that stand out in this draft were Ziaire Williams and Primo. After Ziaire went tenth (a little surprising), perhaps that scared them enough to not trade back. Trading back when there's two guys you like is a lot easier than when you're down to the final player you really want.

I've also had the thought that this could have been a Chip Engelland pick. After taking a closer look at Primo's form, it's exactly how Engelland teaches. He prepares for the shot well, has a short, repeatable stroke, releases his off-hand before the shot is released and gets full extension. I could imagine Engelland looking at Primo shooting in a gym and telling everyone that he's going to be a great shooter down the line. Then if you look at him only as a shooting prospect, his 38% three-point shooting as a freshman in the SEC when he was the youngest player in college basketball makes him an enticing pick for a shooting starved team -- especially when you add in his elite character traits. On the other hand, though, using the late lottery to take an unproven shooting prospect with little upside elsewhere in his game is not a good use of that asset.

But bottom line, this goes down as at best a strange pick ... at worst a wasted pick. We'll see but it certainly doesn't give me confidence that the Spurs know how to pick in the lottery. Locking into one or two guys is okay when you're picking late in the first but it's a bad strategy when you're in the lottery.

So they drafted a developmental Wayne Ellington?

I think I could have talked myself into anyone else in the top 28. I could be sold on them, but this is bad.

You know it's bad when a key selling point is what a good person he is. Lots of those picks last night were good kids.

How could anyone be sold on him? Even the idea that the Spurs need shooting as a justification ... Sure they need shooting THIS year. They might not be desperate for shooting 2 years from now. If they really valued shooting above all, take Kispert or Murphy or Duarte. Or take Wieskamp in the second, decent chance he'd be there.

Does he have outlier shooting skill? Not exactly, but he's a pretty good shooter for his age and a good kid.

Is he an elite athlete? No, he's okay and a good kid.

Does he have elite measurables? No, he has okay size and okay length and is young and a good kid.

Is he an elite defensive prospect? No, he's okay, maybe pretty good one day and a good kid.

Is he an elite transition player? No, he's a good kid.

Is he projected as an elite playmaker for others? No, but he's young and a good kid.

Is he projected to be elite as a self generator? No, but he's a good kid.

Did he dominate at a young age? No, but he is young and a good kid.

Does he stand out for blocks and steals and generating events? Not really, but he's a good kid.

I don't get it.

[Dejounte]

I will say this. Whoever steps up and backs Primo from the beginning is one courageous mother fucker. Will pay off with major bragging rights or backfire like crazy. Which of you is going to be a Primo fan? It’s going to be a while for me…

[Leetonidas]

I'm betting he'll grow a bit in the next few years. He looks like a 14 year old :lol maybe the Spurs are betting on that

[Chinook]

I will say this. Whoever steps up and backs Primo from the beginning is one courageous mother fucker. Will pay off with major bragging rights or backfire like crazy. Which of you is going to be a Primo fan? It’s going to be a while for me…

I think there'll be Primo fans in the SL. He's going to have a game where he shoots lights out, and people will see him and realize he's a lot bigger than Forbes and is a shooting wing rather than a combo-guard.

I'm a fan because there's no reason not be be a fan. Outside being the piece in a major trade, the ship is sailing with Primo now. He's the bluest chip in the Spurs' pile right now. If anyone's the franchise, it's him or maybe Vassell.

Fan enough for you?

[JuneJive]

People are frustrated with Primo being an unknown.

We can't see into the future, but why do we project it to be so grim.

Kid has obvious two-way potential.

Plus, we are still nowhere near a franchise player but if there is to be one it will definetly come via draft in the upcoming years. Which means Primo has time to develop.

I also don't get the "we need a player that would help right away" people. Spurs ain't contending anytime soon. Help with what? Barely getting into the playoffs? They can do that as it stands.

If anything this move shows they are planning for the long run.
Things will change once a superstar calibre player emerges. And from there, with a healthy foundation, the team can go back to chasing titles.

[rjv]

I will say this. Whoever steps up and backs Primo from the beginning is one courageous mother fucker. Will pay off with major bragging rights or backfire like crazy. Which of you is going to be a Primo fan? It’s going to be a while for me…

well, can i least get a chance to see him in the summer league?

[rjv]

I think there'll be Primo fans in the SL. He's going to have a game where he shoots lights out, and people will see him and realize he's a lot bigger than Forbes and is a shooting wing rather than a combo-guard.

I'm a fan because there's no reason not be be a fan. Outside being the piece in a major trade, the ship is sailing with Primo now. He's the bluest chip in the Spurs' pile right now. If anyone's the franchise, it's him or maybe Vassell.

Fan enough for you?

what makes me agree with you on the bolded part of your premise is that vassell and primo may be the quickest learners on the team. white has a solid IQ as well but lacks the physical intangibles of the former.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/nbatv/status/1420944955409932290?s=21

[Mr. Body]

It's not really correct to say Primo is only a shooter. He showed some craftiness off the dribble and getting shots off, although it's true he was often stonewalled because he hasn't a good first step at this time and is physically weaker than he will be. There's also the tales of him showing off a lot more offensive ability in terms of roles during the combine than his role permitted at Alabama.

[Sugus]

As the shock wears off, I'm still scratching my head. Of the many questions that pop up, here are a few:

1) Are the Spurs so independent (distrustful) in the league that they can't count on finding trade partners? Something seems broken in this dept. See Carroll, Morris, etc.

2) Is the Primo pick indicative of a large scale master plan? Trades in the works, free agents, etc.

3) WTF is DJ doing by publicly displaying his disapproval of this pick? Is this common for NBA players regarding their future teammates?

4) As someone who has been waiting for the Spurs to take a big risk and shake up the stats quo, they did just that. Somehow, it feels unsatisfying at present. Are we the most spoiled fan base out there?

5) What if Primo pans out?

That's a really easy question to answer - no. We're the second most spoiled fanbase, behind the Fakers.

But we're probably #1 in terms of Org Success Vs Fan's Doom & Gloom. I mean, I keep hearing Bucks fans say how grateful they are for their chip and that they're set for a lifetime if it never happens again, same with Toronto fans. Spurs won a chip less than 10 years ago, 5 in total, more than 90% of the NBA's franchises, in all of our lifetimes - and a quick look at this board tells you all you need to know as far as "spoilt upbringing".

[Dennis the Menace]

Me thinks they are relying on him growing 2 more inches.

Or that they can develop him like crazy

This was a lottery position….

[TD 21]

I had Primo 22 on my Big Board and that was higher than most other people had him. I'm not concerned about his ability or upside but, the thing that concerns me is the total lack of awareness of the guys value to other teams. It was malpractice to not trade back and get him along with someone like Jones, Johnson, Jackson, or Kispert...

Now we are sitting here hoping that this FO can do something it has never really been successful at and that's navigating the free agent market and making trades. It's fairly depressing...not because of the player but from the mismanagement perspective..

:tu

I'd have went Sengun, but I get the reticence and wasn't really zeroed in on anyone else, so the pick is whatever, but at 12? Yeah, we don't know if the Thunder or whoever would have taken him (was it really going to be that difficult to make a trade at that point if they had to have him?), but there's always some excuse why they fail at asset management and can't maximize value.

They're clearly the most incompetent organization in the league and when they complete another underwhelming off season with the predictable Markkanen signing, Mills re-signing, possibly Dieng, Fournier or Burks, etc. or whatever, the only positive is they should by default land a mid-high lottery pick next season and hopefully luck into a no brainer foundational piece.



I still can't wrap my head around this pick ...

-Primo's value was mostly due to the thinking that if he had gone back to Alabama and played really well, he probably becomes a late lottery pick in 2022. He wasn't going to become a high lottery pick because he doesn't have the physical tools to be a high lottery pick -- but he could have gone back to Alabama and worked himself into that 10 to 15 range if all went well.

Don't even bother trying. This is them at their narrow minded, drinking their own Kool-Aid worst . . .

The thing is, there's no reason to think they won't be in position to draft him next season and even if they're not, they've built up enough youth/draft capital that I'm sure they could have finagled their way into position to. No matter what leap he may make, this isn't Cunningham, Green, Mobley, etc. where it'd cost a king's ransom. They out dumbed themselves again.

[offset formation]

i think timvp may have been correct in ruling out sengun to the spurs before the draft based on how the spurs have moved away from the post-up philosophy. sengun, for now at least, is a low blocks player that the spurs would have had to turn into a stretch 4 and so i wasn't shocked that sengun was left on the board.

dude is gonna be a stretch. and he already shoots like DDR and LMA range. not understanding that and drafting an 18 year old kid with the sweet inside and midrange game, along with Jokic level passing skills and the form to stretch it out to the arc, is malpractice.

his game was themost conplete. and I will forever roast them about this if primo doesn't pan out.

[Dejounte]

dude is gonna be a stretch. and he already shoots like DDR and LMA range. not understanding that and drafting an 18 year old kid with the sweet inside and midrange game, along with Jokic level passing skills and the form to stretch it out to the arc, is malpractice.

his game was themost conplete. and I will forever roast them about this if primo doesn't pan out.

but can the Spurs roast you if Sengun doesn’t pan out?

[BackHome]

If we sign Markkanen I am going to fucking loose it don’t want Chicago left overs - JUST pick a lane Spurs hopefully it’s the all tank lane and we can get a foundational piece cause this drafting 11 to 20 is going to kill me

[tbdog]

Sengun made sense because I didn't see Poeltl as spurs starting playoff center in 3 years time.

[The Truth #6]

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned here is that, evidently, Primo is an irrational confidence guy. Ryan Russillo on the Ringer claimed this, at least, but in a negative Dion Waiters way. Shit, that might be a compliment as far as I can tell, at least in the absence of anything else to get excited about with him. So a well mannered yet overly confident player? Maybe they’re hoping for some strong leadership. Let’s hope. #koolaid

[Sugus]

i caught the tail end of an interview with coach oats of 'bama and he was giving some background on primo;

1) this should be his freshman year in college as he graduated a year early from high school.
2) MRIs and X-rays show that Primo's bone (epiphyseal) plates are still open meaning that he is still growing.
3) they coached him up a lot at the point to start the season but then they backed off to let him do what he does best and let him process the information. then, towards the end of the season, they started playing him at the point again and it started to come together (he specifically mentioned the auburn game). the meniscus tear set him back a bit again but then he started to elevate his game again.
4) his performance at some workouts in LA were great as they had him run the offense and he showed vast improvement in his pick and roll reads.
5) he will likely become a wing who can do it all and could be 6'7" or 6'8".

that was most of what i caught for what it's worth.

Damn, if true, that's a pretty big deal. I don't mind folks calling the discussion "lipstick on a pig", and agree to an extent regarding where he was drafted; but now that that the drafting's over with, and Primo's on the team, he's starting to look like an interesting addition. Growth plates not closed is always great, graduating a year early on HS (why? Academic merit or something else?) can't be bad, and being a coachable and receptive player will always be a plus, especially for a team like the Spurs. I'm not really seeing him play the wing (let's wait and see if/how much he grows before touting him a "wing" at all, tbh, he's a guard until proven otherwise), but being a tall guard ain't a bad thing, especially on a team lacking size.

I'll be tuning on to some Austin games next season, for sure.

[Sugus]

I think there'll be Primo fans in the SL. He's going to have a game where he shoots lights out, and people will see him and realize he's a lot bigger than Forbes and is a shooting wing rather than a combo-guard.

I'm a fan because there's no reason not be be a fan. Outside being the piece in a major trade, the ship is sailing with Primo now. He's the bluest chip in the Spurs' pile right now. If anyone's the franchise, it's him or maybe Vassell.

Fan enough for you?

Learning his growth plates haven't closed has got my interest piqued, TBQH. Not sure I can tout myself a fan just yet - but after drowning my Sengun sorrows in booze last night, I'm ready to turn a new page and root for the guy. Hope he's showcased in Austin from the get-go, he shouldn't have much competition in the pecking order next season.

[TheChillFactor]

that was the first thing i thought, just because they mentioned how he won't turn 19 until christmas eve.

if he is projected as a 6'6"- 6'8" ball handler that can actually make a goddamn 3 I can see why dejounte wasn't enthused.

[south side spur]

I will say this. Whoever steps up and backs Primo from the beginning is one courageous mother fucker. Will pay off with major bragging rights or backfire like crazy. Which of you is going to be a Primo fan? It’s going to be a while for me…

I’m backing Primo from the beginning and no it’s not me being courageous I’m just a Spurs fan bro. It’s that simple. It’s not about bragging rights either. Did I know anything about him before the Spurs picked him? No. I watched a few scouting videos and liked what I saw. Shooting and ball handling. Smooth is the word that best describes him. I watched his interviews and liked what I heard.

I’m supporting the kid. For me this pick was never going to be a factor this upcoming season. This season was always about Dejounte becoming the team leader, Vassell stepping up to be more of a factor offensively, and KJ and Luka taking the next step in their development. Specifically, Pop believing in KJ to close out more games and Luka just getting more minutes. I’m fine with Primo developing in Austin.

A couple of points from the Brian Wright post draft virtual. It seems a trade is imminent. Just an observation from his reply to a question pertaining to how the roster will be filled out. The reporter mentioned free agency and Wright immediately brought up trades. I’m hoping it’s not Murray or Vassell but it is what it is. He also seemed to imply that Primo has a chance to see minutes with the big club immediately if his development is accelerated. We all know this team needs more 3 point shooting so who’s to say that won’t be his initial contribution off the bench? Even Forbes contributed somewhat as a rookie.

I’m not a Pop supporter anymore. So I don’t want anyone to assume I’m a fluffer but I’ve also seen the same “sky is falling” comments over the years about EVERY draft pick only for it to turn into a comedy schtick which is easier than a “I was wrong about the kid” admission.

You said it took awhile for you to come around on Vassell so what if it takes the same amount of time with Primo? No big deal bro.

What I do find humorous is all of this “trade down” commentary as if this is the freakin NFL draft. Take the pick you want. I love how most people are acting like a lottery pick is a sure thing. Probably the same people who always want to tank when that has also guaranteed nothing for most teams.

Also, I’m sure we all noticed the clock run down on the Spurs? Maybe I’m reading too much into it but how do we know they weren’t trying to trade the pick and found no deal they liked? If they wanted the kid take the freakin kid. All this predraft mock BS is meaningless just people trying to justify why they were right or why the Spurs were wrong.

[offset formation]

but can the Spurs roast you if Sengun doesn’t pan out?

:pop: That would be immature and counterproductive.

[offset formation]

I'm betting he'll grow a bit in the next few years. He looks like a 14 year old :lol maybe the Spurs are betting on that

he looks like that picture of DWhite in HS.

[Dejounte]

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned here is that, evidently, Primo is an irrational confidence guy. Ryan Russillo on the Ringer claimed this, at least, but in a negative Dion Waiters way. Shit, that might be a compliment as far as I can tell, at least in the absence of anything else to get excited about with him. So a well mannered yet overly confident player? Maybe they’re hoping for some strong leadership. Let’s hope. #koolaid


his interviewing skills reminds me of James Harden. Soft spoken but confident


https://youtu.be/ZrhYjZCMXgs

[Chinook]

Damn, if true, that's a pretty big deal. I don't mind folks calling the discussion "lipstick on a pig", and agree to an extent regarding where he was drafted; but now that that the drafting's over with, and Primo's on the team, he's starting to look like an interesting addition. Growth plates not closed is always great, graduating a year early on HS (why? Academic merit or something else?) can't be bad, and being a coachable and receptive player will always be a plus, especially for a team like the Spurs. I'm not really seeing him play the wing (let's wait and see if/how much he grows before touting him a "wing" at all, tbh, he's a guard until proven otherwise), but being a tall guard ain't a bad thing, especially on a team lacking size.

I'll be tuning on to some Austin games next season, for sure.

"Graduating a year early" is more commonly referred to as reclassing, at least when it comes to American sports. Basically, Primo new if he graduated early he'd be eligible to be drafted a year sooner. So he moved up his graduation date, got to go to college sooner but still meets the requirements to be drafted under the current rules because he turns 19 before 12/31.

Primo reclassed in February of last year, according to this link: https://247sports.com/Article/Josh-Primo-Reclassify-Alabama-Creighton-Ohio-State-Oregon-143997217/

I wouldn't take is as an academic achievement. It's more a dedication thing to make sure one takes all the necessary credits to graduate early. It takes planning, but usually players reclass doing into high school, so they have years to make up the credits. In Primo's case he reclassed his senior year, so either he was lucky or more likely had been planning on reclassing for years but wanted to leave the option open to just to in his normal year.

Also, you can reclass for non-athletic reasons. I had some 17-year-olds with my group during freshman orientation.

[BackHome]

Agreed I like the kid and and rooting for him and I will probably watch more Austin Games then I will Spurs games. I hope they give him PG duties and make him work running a team I think will be good for his game and will see if he could actually play that position in the NBA -

As far as the Spurs I am just hoping Derozz, Mills, Rudy, are all gone and we have the worst record in the league I want a chance at getting a franchise player

[K...]

all i wanted was for the spurs to draft an interesting player, and boy they delivered. The meltdown is because the fans have a quicker timetable for contention then the FO . The spurs are in total DGAF mode because pop and RC are in the twilight. If you look to the draft as a strict "wins added by player" you are mad, because the wins added are zero here. But if you look at it as "maximizing chance of a star" then the pick is ok. there were nice players the spurs could pick but no obvious game changer, if they did a trade down for two firsts they'd probably still get the other kid they drafted, so it's moot unless you wanna wichcast some other asset you get from your fantasy trade.

[TheChillFactor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=V3UrRwP13Kk

i watched this whole thing.

you see him understanding how to pass and relocate already- i think he may spend more time in san antonio than we expect.

after watching derozan constipate our fucking offense for years, if nothing else i'm glad they are picking 3 point shooters

[offset formation]

Learning his growth plates haven't closed has got my interest piqued, TBQH. Not sure I can tout myself a fan just yet - but after drowning my Sengun sorrows in booze last night, I'm ready to turn a new page and root for the guy. Hope he's showcased in Austin from the get-go, he shouldn't have much competition in the pecking order next season.

same here bro. I'm still pissed it wasn't sengun at 12 because I feel they could have picked up both without much effort, pain, or long-term hit to draft picks or salary.
cap.

that said I'll be fully in Cuz' camp. it's not his fault he was selected so high. he'll even he said the same which makes me like him even more.

he has a high potential. and he seems like a good kid that could maybe stick around awhile even if he develops as we all hope basedon his comments about wanting to be here and all.

still tho...������

[Chinook]

Learning his growth plates haven't closed has got my interest piqued, TBQH.

Yeah, to me it's like when RC said Derrick White still had room to grow athletically when he was drafted. It's very possible that next year, Primo would've been a featured SF for Bama and drafted in the top 7 while folks claimed the Spurs should've tanked to get him. Considering how many other teams with picks in the teens basically threw away their picks, I don't think reaching for a guy you want to buy futures in is a bad thing.


Hope he's showcased in Austin from the get-go, he shouldn't have much competition in the pecking order next season.

Unless he grows like two inches this summer, he should be the 10th man on the big club. There's no way there are five perimeter players who should be getting minutes over him unless they re-up DeMar. Raw players play on other teams all the time, even non-tanking ones.

[tonight...you]

I will say this. Whoever steps up and backs Primo from the beginning is one courageous mother fucker. Will pay off with major bragging rights or backfire like crazy. Which of you is going to be a Primo fan? It’s going to be a while for me…
I'm going to be a Primo fan because I want him to succeed so I'm going to root for that to happen.

Primo Fan right here.

[Chinook]

I'm going to be a Primo fan because I want him to succeed so I'm going to root for that to happen.

Primo Fan right here.

:tu

#UnderpassCrew

[objective]

If he turns out to be the next Paul George then Brian Wright will become a legend all over the NBA world, calling a shot like this is certainly very bold.

But if he's Wayne Ellington or the impact of Anfernee Simons ... Wright will deserve the roasting and a lot more.

Good news for him is that the youth angle will be a shield for years.

"He might be a 23 year old 9th man on his second contract but he's still young! The jury is still out!"

[offset formation]

If he turns out to be the next Paul George then Brian Wright will become a legend all over the NBA world, calling a shot like this is certainly very bold.

But if he's Wayne Ellington or the impact of Anfernee Simons ... Wright will deserve the roasting and a lot more.

Good news for him is that the youth angle will be a shield for years.

"He might be a 23 year old 9th man on his second contract but he's still young! The jury is still out!"

bwright needs Luka to pan out. if Luka has a breakout season, then PATFO will once again look like the geniuses most have thought them to be.

problem with Primo is that he's gonna take a back seat to most of his peers while they start shining already and he sits in Austin or the back of the bench learning how to play the Spurs way. so it's gonna take time for the primo pick to start showing wisdom while a Sengun or even Moses start becoming household names in NBA circles.

[TD 21]

If he turns out to be the next Paul George then Brian Wright will become a legend all over the NBA world, calling a shot like this is certainly very bold.

But if he's Wayne Ellington or the impact of Anfernee Simons ... Wright will deserve the roasting and a lot more.

Good news for him is that the youth angle will be a shield for years.

"He might be a 23 year old 9th man on his second contract but he's still young! The jury is still out!"

Exactly. Especially around here, where being 27, 26 and 25 somehow still qualifies as young . . . when in actuality, that's young veteran.

The only youth they have that are certified rotation players are Johnson and Vassell. Walker IV and Eubanks are fringe rotation, Samanic and Jones are fringe NBA and Primo and Wieskamp are obviously question marks at this point.

[Rummpd]

One thought = SAS FO is worst in the NBA.

[GAustex]

I root for him cause he wears the jersey.
Strange pick it seems though by FO.

[tonight...you]

One thought = SAS FO is worst in the NBA.
Not like that's a new thought for you homie.

[Maddog]

OK
I'm starting to warm to him. I still think he's a bit of a reach. But that's because all I know is all the mock drafts, grades and endless discussions.
So he has a really good stroke. Can shoot deep. Still growing. Showed initiating skills at the combine ( stood out at the combine). Has a pleasant swagger/confidence/emotional maturity.

[Russ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=V3UrRwP13Kk

i watched this whole thing.

you see him understanding how to pass and relocate already- i think he may spend more time in san antonio than we expect.



Agreed. The old meme of "he'll be in Austin for a season or two" is now largely outdated.

That was when the Spurs were contenders and there was little opportunity for on the job training -- it was too risky in terms of wins and losses.

Don't be surprised to see Primo making a few appearances in SA sooner than expected.

[Eaglenole2002]

Primo averaged 1.25 points per possession on his jump shot this past season, per Synergy, which ranked 96th percentile among D-I players.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/07/nba-draft-results-josh-primo-san-antonio-spurs-alabama

[Eaglenole2002]

For context, I had Primo going at No. 20 to Atlanta in my final mock (https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/29/nba-mock-draft-2021-rumors-cade-cunningham-jalen-green-evan-mobley). Per sources, Primo was believed to be one of the players the Hawks were targeting in trade-up scenarios. I viewed him as a first-round lock, but the interest in him was much hotter than it seemed based on public mock drafts and whatever information had trickled out on the matter. Per sources, the Hornets (who opted for James Bouknight, after he slid) and Thunder (who could have taken Primo at No. 16 or 18) were also quite interested. The Spurs also loved Primo and were intent on landing him.
The market for Primo was so silent that many rival teams even had no idea he was in play that high. But as I understand it, San Antonio felt there wasn’t a clear opportunity to trade back and completely ensure Primo was still available. When in doubt, you just take the guy you like the most on the board. Like many around the league, the Spurs felt there was a good deal of untapped upside hidden by his role at Alabama. He’s was the youngest player drafted (he turns 19 in December) and in the past couple years has grown to 6'6” while maintaining his coordination and guard skills.

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/30/2021-nba-draft-10-parting-thoughts

[slick'81]

Primo will probably end up being a nice player given the spurs development history

[Chinook]

Eh, I know Brian Wright said the words "point guard" about Primo but the guy is not a point guard. He didn't play point guard at Alabama and won't play point guard in the NBA. The guy averaged 1.3 assists per 36 minutes -- the lowest of any guard prospect in the draft. That's also lower than any player on the Spurs team last season. You have to go back to Jeff Ayres to find a Spurs player who averaged that few assists per 36 minutes. Unless Jeff Errors was a point guard in disguise, Murray doesn't have anything to worry about :lol

I mean, look at DeRozan, who averaged 1.5 assist per 36 in college and 1.1 per 36 his rookie year in the NBA before eventually increasing that total to 7.4 per 36 this season and being known as one of the best play-making wings in the NBA. Especially if the Spurs stay with this god-awful hydra offense where they expect there to be four or five ball-handlers on the court at the same time, I don't see why Primo can't be the one designated PG in the same way Mills was. Heck George Hill has been a PG for 13 years despite averaging 4 assists per 36 over that span. Murray's trade candidacy doesn't depend on Primo in my opinion, but I wouldn't put it past Josh to be a primary creator in a few years.

[slick'81]

Never heard about plate palates or whatever not being closed when considering a candidate :lol

[Chinook]

Never heard about plate palates or whatever not being closed when considering a candidate :lol

It comes up every once in a while. Believe it did with Giannis and Thon Maker.

[Uriel]

Well, if there’s one good thing about this pick, at least it hasn’t been boring :lol

[Teamduncan21]

If he is projected to be a lottery next year by the same media who projected him to be late first. If we base our bets on clips and the mock drafts, shouldn't we be confident that he will be fine in a year's time?

To be fair mid first rounds rarely become Paul George. It happens every once in a while but it's not common

[Uriel]

For context, I had Primo going at No. 20 to Atlanta in my final mock (https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/29/nba-mock-draft-2021-rumors-cade-cunningham-jalen-green-evan-mobley). Per sources, Primo was believed to be one of the players the Hawks were targeting in trade-up scenarios. I viewed him as a first-round lock, but the interest in him was much hotter than it seemed based on public mock drafts and whatever information had trickled out on the matter. Per sources, the Hornets (who opted for James Bouknight, after he slid) and Thunder (who could have taken Primo at No. 16 or 18) were also quite interested. The Spurs also loved Primo and were intent on landing him.
The market for Primo was so silent that many rival teams even had no idea he was in play that high. But as I understand it, San Antonio felt there wasn’t a clear opportunity to trade back and completely ensure Primo was still available. When in doubt, you just take the guy you like the most on the board. Like many around the league, the Spurs felt there was a good deal of untapped upside hidden by his role at Alabama. He’s was the youngest player drafted (he turns 19 in December) and in the past couple years has grown to 6'6” while maintaining his coordination and guard skills.

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/30/2021-nba-draft-10-parting-thoughts
There you go. There were multiple teams that were interested in Primo with picks in the late teens, and the Spurs felt they had to take him there and then, otherwise he would be gone. This is consistent with Wright’s post-draft interview when he said the “intel doesn’t always match the mocks.”

The Spurs felt he had untapped potential and better upside than publicly believed. Clearly they weren’t alone in thinking this.

[Uriel]

For context, I had Primo going at No. 20 to Atlanta in my final mock (https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/29/nba-mock-draft-2021-rumors-cade-cunningham-jalen-green-evan-mobley). Per sources, Primo was believed to be one of the players the Hawks were targeting in trade-up scenarios. I viewed him as a first-round lock, but the interest in him was much hotter than it seemed based on public mock drafts and whatever information had trickled out on the matter. Per sources, the Hornets (who opted for James Bouknight, after he slid) and Thunder (who could have taken Primo at No. 16 or 18) were also quite interested. The Spurs also loved Primo and were intent on landing him.
The market for Primo was so silent that many rival teams even had no idea he was in play that high. But as I understand it, San Antonio felt there wasn’t a clear opportunity to trade back and completely ensure Primo was still available. When in doubt, you just take the guy you like the most on the board. Like many around the league, the Spurs felt there was a good deal of untapped upside hidden by his role at Alabama. He’s was the youngest player drafted (he turns 19 in December) and in the past couple years has grown to 6'6” while maintaining his coordination and guard skills.

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/30/2021-nba-draft-10-parting-thoughts
There you go. There were multiple teams that were interested in Primo with picks in the late teens, and the Spurs felt they had to take him there and then, otherwise he would be gone. This is consistent with Wright’s post-draft interview when he said the “intel doesn’t always match the mocks.”

The Spurs felt he had untapped potential and better upside than publicly believed. Clearly they weren’t alone in thinking this.

[Mr. Body]

For context, I had Primo going at No. 20 to Atlanta in my final mock (https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/29/nba-mock-draft-2021-rumors-cade-cunningham-jalen-green-evan-mobley). Per sources, Primo was believed to be one of the players the Hawks were targeting in trade-up scenarios. I viewed him as a first-round lock, but the interest in him was much hotter than it seemed based on public mock drafts and whatever information had trickled out on the matter. Per sources, the Hornets (who opted for James Bouknight, after he slid) and Thunder (who could have taken Primo at No. 16 or 18) were also quite interested. The Spurs also loved Primo and were intent on landing him.
The market for Primo was so silent that many rival teams even had no idea he was in play that high. But as I understand it, San Antonio felt there wasn’t a clear opportunity to trade back and completely ensure Primo was still available. When in doubt, you just take the guy you like the most on the board. Like many around the league, the Spurs felt there was a good deal of untapped upside hidden by his role at Alabama. He’s was the youngest player drafted (he turns 19 in December) and in the past couple years has grown to 6'6” while maintaining his coordination and guard skills.

https://www.si.com/nba/2021/07/30/2021-nba-draft-10-parting-thoughts

This bolsters the thought that media mocks lag behind what's actually happening.

[Mr. Body]

It also suggests that trading back to OKC was NOT on the docket becaue OKC might have taken him at #12. (Often Presti and the Spurs are of the same mind.) The Spurs likely knew this and didn't try to hit them up.

[Dejounte]

I’ve watched videos of Primo defending bigs in the post and defending them extremely well. Very rare for a guy his size. IMO, probably another reason the Spurs were high on him.

[Dejounte]

Watching the combine scrimmage is really helpful to see Primo in a different environment where he's utilized differently.

He definitely plays within a team concept and understands spacing. If he's not handling the ball as a secondary playmaker, he goes directly to the left and right corners to spot up for a 3. It's a natural tendency for him to go to those spots.

I HIGHLY suggest watching the game. He is #32 on the team with the white jerseys.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHnfxqNOAZ8

He had some SICK passes in this game. Including one where he did a no-look.

[Dejounte]

I must reiterate how big Joshua looks on the court. It's one of those things where you can't believe Jrue is listed 6'3" (?) but looks huge next to someone else who is listed 6'3". I wanted to refresh my mind how Jaylen Brown (a legit 2) looks and watched a video and I wouldn't be surprised if Josh is bigger. In this scrimmage, he was guarding the opposing 2.

Another note is that his handles seem impressive. He seems to understand how to control his speed and can slow down and speed up with ease.


He was also matched up with Sam Hauser (6'8") during this scrimmage.

[Dejounte]

Forgive me, I'm posting as I go. Another match-up for Primo in this scrimmage: Johnny Juzang.

So 2/3rds into the video, his primary match-ups are: Austin Reaves, Sam Hauser, and Johnny Juzang.

[PhantomDashCam]

I'll be interested to track Primo's development in contrast to Jaden Springers.

Primo has him for height, wingspan and 3pt volume shooting atm but I would give the nod to Jaden on everything else.

Jaden's father is heavily involved with his game too which may have scared the Spurs off some.
Philly may end up trading him with a Ben Simmons type deal but we'll see.

Good luck Mr. Primo, we'll all be rooting for you.
:flag:

[Dejounte]

I know. Camera angles and everything.

https://i.ibb.co/84Cc2DV/primo.png

Primo is not going to have a hard time guarding wings in the league.

[alfahdlan]

Hope this is not yet posted. This guy predicted what was to happen more than 1 month ago.

https://frontofficegurus.com/2021/06/15/2021-nba-draft-planting-my-flag/

[Uriel]

The Spurs sure do put a lot of stock in these combine scrimmages. Wasn’t that the same reason they made a promise to Livio Jean-Charles?

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaR0EUEKA_Q

He's got good handles...

[vy65]

So 2/3rds into the video, his primary match-ups are: Austin Reaves, Sam Hauser, and Johnny Juzang.

OMG Reaves, Hauser, AND Juzang?!?! How’d somebody who competed against such top flight talent fall to us at 36, erm, 12.

Somebody pinch me, I’m dreaming …

[Dejounte]

More nice handles


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ1sUqhGRu8

[slick'81]

Yea im definetly not seeing anything in these videos. I will agree primo looks bigger,wide framed if you will then 6'4 190

[Dejounte]

OMG Reaves, Hauser, AND Juzang?!?! How’d somebody who competed against such top flight talent fall to us at 36, erm, 12.

Somebody pinch me, I’m dreaming …

That's not the intended takeaway from my post.

None of the scouts watched this scrimmage to see who would beat who. It's a scrimmage. You're there to gauge skillsets.

[vy65]

That's not the intended takeaway from my post.


None of the scouts watched this scrimmage to see who would beat who. It's a scrimmage. You're there to gauge skillsets.

For sure. And the takeaway here is that our boy can hold his own, sorta, against D level talent like Juzang. Quite the display of skills to be gauged

[Seventyniner]

Hope this is not yet posted. This guy predicted what was to happen more than 1 month ago.

https://frontofficegurus.com/2021/06/15/2021-nba-draft-planting-my-flag/

Nice find. :bobo

Wieskamp is on the list too and even got his own article.

https://frontofficegurus.com/2021/06/10/2021-nba-draft-checking-in-with-joe-wieskamp/

[Atl Spur]

That's not the intended takeaway from my post.

None of the scouts watched this scrimmage to see who would beat who. It's a scrimmage. You're there to gauge skillsets.

Vy65 just wants attention; we have another ball handler oozing with potential! The riders will be out soon enough������

[Robz4000]

The Spurs sure do put a lot of stock in these combine scrimmages. Wasn’t that the same reason they made a promise to Livio Jean-Charles?


This kid is gonna be another Livio Jean-Charles tbh.

[Mr. Body]

It's a bit nuts that Primo was bar none the youngest player in all of college basketball last year.

[slick'81]

It's a bit nuts that Primo was bar none the youngest player in all of college basketball last year.


He def hung in there his freshman year

[vy65]

Vy65 just wants attention; we have another ball handler oozing with potential! The riders will be out soon enough������

Yes!!!! Please attention!!! I need this soooo much. You got me all Spurs

[Dejounte]

Vy65 just wants attention; we have another ball handler oozing with potential! The riders will be out soon enough������

People are cranky, and it's actually quite humorous. The posts can be funny.

Reminds me of this:

https://media3.giphy.com/media/26gJz7vrNd95sT4jK/giphy.gif

[slick'81]

I really do hope spurs found something special here. At the very least should be a solid rotational piece

[duncan2k5]

This may be the worst draft pick the Spurs ever had when u factor in the position we were in and where he was slated to go... He may never see significant minutes on an NBA court, especially with Pop coaching... He will be 3 years in and getting pulled up from the G league just to be yanked out the game and benched indefinitely the first mistake he makes

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcIBlCXi6wM

The good pass I was talking about earlier

[slick'81]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcIBlCXi6wM

The good pass I was talking about earlier


Nice feed

[Degoat]

Mike Schmitz from ESPN has a really good breakdown interview with primo about his game. (Don’t know how to post it otherwise I would lol)

[Dejounte]

Mike Schmitz from ESPN has a really good breakdown interview with primo about his game. (Don’t know how to post it otherwise I would lol)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3UrRwP13Kk

[Dejounte]

CR9fYuSp75G

[slick'81]

Shes a hottie

[Dejounte]

Tony gonna come outta retirement for this one.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[Maddog]

Hope this is not yet posted. This guy predicted what was to happen more than 1 month ago.

https://frontofficegurus.com/2021/06/15/2021-nba-draft-planting-my-flag/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/sports/basketball/nba-draft-prospects.html
Another article about 5 prospects you don't know.

[exstatic]

The Spurs sure do put a lot of stock in these combine scrimmages. Wasn’t that the same reason they made a promise to Livio Jean-Charles?

No. It was some evernt in Europe where they made him the promise in exchange for shutting don everything, no combine, no visits, no interviews.

[duncan2150]

No. It was some evernt in Europe where they made him the promise in exchange for shutting don everything, no combine, no visits, no interviews.


i think it was the hoops summit where they saw him.

[exstatic]

i think it was the hoops summit where they saw him.

That’s it, the former Nike Hoops summit.

[Dejounte]

CRJsaJ1DUf4

[Dejounte]

CQ7GP2bDP5h

[Dejounte]

CQKH63gLcr-

[Dejounte]

CPQarXepCkj

I think people are going to be surprised by his handles. (Not basing this statement off this one video)

[duncan2150]

CPQarXepCkj

I think people are going to be surprised by his handles. (Not basing this statement off this one video)


that's something that strikes in the scouting videos, he has some good handles.

[Dejounte]

that's something that strikes in the scouting videos, he has some good handles.

I think he’s got DeMar-type handles, but we’ll see.

[The Truth #6]

Thanks to Dejounte for finding all these videos to check out. I agree. Handles look solid. I don't think DDR level but better than Dejounte at this age. I think the knock on Primo, like Dejounte, is that he has challenges getting separation off his dribble, but that's why they got him young, to work on all that.

Bigger picture, thinking of why another guard, I can only think that they see having a guard as their leader is their goal. And, for me, I see Primo as sort of a backup to the congenial but often-injured White. Combo guard who gets along with others. And perhaps has the confidence of Dejounte but without the, how shall I say it, potential for emotional lability. And given that Dejounte has seen his name in trade rumors, and then seeing Primo come in, I do think that he sees more competition, or possibly that he is at a higher risk of getting traded. I have no insight into the actual behind the scenes of how the sausage gets made. Just saying, that without DDR to be the alpha, this year could have a big drop off in morale without the clear pecking order. Just a thought.

Back to Primo, I'm slowly drinking the Kool Aid. Hoping the FO makes some moves to clarify the roster is still paramount, but for now I will save my disappointment for when that doesn't happen for later, when it most likely, you know, doesn't happen.

[rascal]

The Spurs need to over haul the front office. Get some guys who have the balls to make bold moves and get active with trades.

[rascal]

Shes a hottie

a fattie

[rascal]

No, it's not reasonable. The Spurs had a whole year to decide how much they wanted Sengun. They didn't need five minutes to think about it. It's really weird that you keep trying to push that point. Legit, there are only two ways this could've worked like you're suggesting: Either the Spurs made a promise to Primo thinking Sengun wouldn't be around and then decided not to break their promise when they were wrong; or the Spurs drafted Primo thinking he'd be part of a trade, and that trade either got botched or has yet to occur because it also involves something like a S&T. Outside of those two fringe circumstances, the Spurs would just go with their board, as any other team would do. It's possible something happened that caused the Spurs to go against their evaluation to draft Primo over Sengun, but we aren't talking like 50-50 chances here. We're talking like 95-5 that they just like Primo more, though if Primo is dealt in a week or so, that would change the ratio.

That would be stupid and a bad front office move to make promises without knowing who will be available on draft night.

[rascal]

Shooting......

His shot is not all that special. I see it hitting back iron when going in so not a pure fire top level future shooter. The best shooters hit nothing but net as they have the proper arc trajection.

[rascal]

I'm betting he'll grow a bit in the next few years. He looks like a 14 year old :lol maybe the Spurs are betting on that

Not likely as most people stop growing by 18. Did you grow much taller after you graduated high school?

[rascal]

Moses Moody will have a better NBA career.

[Atl Spur]

Let’s see can we elevate the #12 pick like we’ve done the #29 pick! There are no throw away picks to us...... don’t sleep on joe either! He has something to prove

[Atl Spur]

Moses Moody will have a better NBA career.

Really? You just talking for the sake of talking�� How the hell do you know that? I got you..... you don’t!

[rascal]

Really? You just talking for the sake of talking�� How the hell do you know that? I got you..... you don’t!

Moses Moody is already better and NBA ready.

[widowmaker]

Question is. Will Pop let him run with the big team during his first year as he did with keldon?

[GAustex]

The draft position and the team need one could argue necessitated a pick that could contribute immediately

[Leetonidas]

Not likely as most people stop growing by 18. Did you grow much taller after you graduated high school?

The human body isn't fully developed until age 25. Plenty of players grow from when they are drafted. Look at Giannis when he was drafted vs now. And my personal anecdote means nothing here as I am not blessed with nba genes

[Atl Spur]

I believe primo will be our starting pg in the future......

[lefty]

Nah

Primo will be fine

[TimDunkem]

Slurpers will convince themselves that anything this shit FO does is amazing. It's uncanny. :lol

[poopbox]

While I would have wanted Sengun, the spurs were never going to draft him because of Poeltl. Sengun right now can only play center so there is no way you could have ever paired him and Poeltl together. I feel like if we did not have Poeltl then Sengun might have been the pick.

I'm not thrilled with picking Primo at 12 but I can see why they did pick him. Between Lonnie, Tre, Weatherspoon, and I hate to say it but White because of injury concerns, one or two of these 4 guys are probably going to wash out and not bee in SA for longer than 2 more years.

I thought white might be somebody who was off the table but right now him and primo have similar games. I've heard that any type of trade package any team wants from the spurs always has either dejounte or derrick in them. I wonder now that they drafted primo well they be more open to trading Derrick for something that they need.

[Atl Spur]

I think pop likes Derrick more than Dejounte to lead the team.

[Joseph Kony]

i'll wait and see if the Spurs involve any of the other guards in the roster in any trades in the next couple weeks before i fully decide if i hate this pick or not. If they trade someone and relieve the logjam so this kid has a path to minutes, the pick makes a lot more sense. i've been watching videos of him the last few days and he's got talent and his shot is pretty pure. Spurs are generally only good at drafting and considering most picks are busts anyway they do a good job of finding rotation guys at the very least, so just gotta hope whatever they see in this kid truly blossoms

[spurs10]

He's 18 and can shoot already. His playing in the combine likely played a part in him moving up in the draft. Wishing the young man well!

[RC_Drunkford]

CRJsaJ1DUf4

like I said he's very advanced for his age. Nobody on our team can shoot 3s off the dribble like that. Most guys can't even shoot 35% from 3, let alone shake a defender and hit the pull up on a stepback

[Dejounte]

like I said he's very advanced for his age. Nobody on our team can shoot 3s off the dribble like that. Most guys can't even shoot 35% from 3, let alone shake a defender and hit the pull up on a stepback

it's just a workout but I’m with you. The team needs a player who is/ or will become a shot creator and be a go to guy on offense. Hopefully Primo is that.

[Sugus]

The Spurs need to over haul the front office. Get some guys who have the balls to make bold moves and get active with trades.

You don't think taking a player far higher than his pre-draft mockings is, if nothing else, a bold move? :lol


That would be stupid and a bad front office move to make promises without knowing who will be available on draft night.

Teams make draft promises every year without knowing who'll be on the board come draft night. The Spurs themselves have made promises in the past. You completely misunderstood Chinook's post, which argued to the contrary regarding a possible Primo promise, and are still wrong.


His shot is not all that special. I see it hitting back iron when going in so not a pure fire top level future shooter. The best shooters hit nothing but net as they have the proper arc trajection.

Multiple videos ITT show him hitting nothing but net in workouts and games. His Combine game had nothing-but-net 3's, look closer.


Not likely as most people stop growing by 18. Did you grow much taller after you graduated high school?

It was literally reported and posted in this very thread that Primo had X-Rays done which showed his growth plates haven't closed yet, by far the biggest indicator of when a person stops growing. As others said, exactly the same happened with Giannis, who sure as hell grew a couple inches after being drafted.


a fattie

Yeah, no. That was the cherry on top of your stream-of-consciousness bad takes, my guy. "Fattie" :lmao

[Sugus]

More nice handles


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ1sUqhGRu8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcIBlCXi6wM

The good pass I was talking about earlier

I'm officially on board. I can absolutely see the Harden comps, that handles video is picture-perfect Harden ISO handles. Was only missing the step-back 3 at the end, which other videos show he can pull off. Just a matter of putting it all together.

Man, I know he's kind of slotted as a SG, but if his passing ability keeps improving, I don't see why you couldn't play him at PG. I skimmed over the Combine game and he had some real nice possessions. His ball handling, fluidity on the move, and quick-thinking skills all stood out. That pass you posted (are you going to fill the void DrewShow left by posting YouTube clip highlights, D? I'm all for it if you spare us the wacko-persona :lol) is extremely fluid, reminded me of a Luka pass, where you can see he's composed on the court and just looking at the opportunities as they come in the flow of the game. I watch him play and think about Dejounte, who's so... Mechanical with his game, and especially his passing, and it's night & day.

I'm hoping some trade materializes still, but I'm liking the pick more and more. If the Spurs FO sees him as our future starting combo guard, he's definitely worth the pick.

[Eaglenole2002]

Good read on the Spurs draft…
https://frontofficegurus.com/2021/07/31/nba-draft-2021-5-favorite-drafts/

[slick'81]

https://youtu.be/3LG9mhhq5W0

[Mr. Body]

People talking about the logjam at guard, but Primo can play a small wing. Wieskamp is definitely a wing, Primo will eventually play 1-3.

[Dejounte]

I'm officially on board. I can absolutely see the Harden comps, that handles video is picture-perfect Harden ISO handles. Was only missing the step-back 3 at the end, which other videos show he can pull off. Just a matter of putting it all together.

Man, I know he's kind of slotted as a SG, but if his passing ability keeps improving, I don't see why you couldn't play him at PG. I skimmed over the Combine game and he had some real nice possessions. His ball handling, fluidity on the move, and quick-thinking skills all stood out. That pass you posted (are you going to fill the void DrewShow left by posting YouTube clip highlights, D? I'm all for it if you spare us the wacko-persona :lol) is extremely fluid, reminded me of a Luka pass, where you can see he's composed on the court and just looking at the opportunities as they come in the flow of the game. I watch him play and think about Dejounte, who's so... Mechanical with his game, and especially his passing, and it's night & day.

I'm hoping some trade materializes still, but I'm liking the pick more and more. If the Spurs FO sees him as our future starting combo guard, he's definitely worth the pick.

Several people have been saying he’s a PG but I don’t see it. He’s not quick enough to chase 1’s full-time. I noted earlier that in the combine he was guarding Hauser, Reaves, and Juzang who are 6’8”, 6’6”, and 6’7” respectively. Primo was not overmatched at all. And now I’m going through college tape and he is consistently shown to be effective when assigned to defend other wings, like Trendon Watford who is 6’8”. Primo’s frame is big, and he is more of a vertical defender than one who stays with his man laterally. He is great at holding down his position against guys with strength. He has good fundamentals on defense too: arms up all the time.

[duncan2150]

People talking about the logjam at guard, but Primo can play a small wing. Wieskamp is definitely a wing, Primo will eventually play 1-3.


+1

And even if all develop well. You could have a murray white walker vassell primo playing the 1-2-3 with johnson at the 4.

[Dejounte]

As far as giving Primo ball handling opportunities, I am all for it. His handle gives him shot creation upside and he’s crafty with his passes. He was playing in that scrimmage like it was an All-Star game. I can’t wait for the summer league games to see more.

[PhantomDashCam]

I think we need to keep our expectations in check here.

I believe he offers some interesting Physical tools and Offensive skills but his Defence for me is the big Q mark.
I’m not sure he has a position he can effectively check…yet.

That in all likelihood will determine whether he gets on the floor early in his career.
He has length, yes, but not the foot-speed or strength to effectively guard a position.

Looking forward to watching him in Summer League.

[Dejounte]

Three years ago, Chris Cheng walked into a gym in the Toronto suburbs and saw something he had never seen before.
The head basketball coach at the University of Windsor, Cheng was there to scout other players.
But as the day went on, Cheng could not take his eyes off a kid who seemed so young he might have pedaled to the game on training wheels.
Josh Primo was 15 at the time, playing with and against players two years his senior. At first glance, he looked to be about 11.
“He’s always had that baby face,” Cheng said. “But then you see the way he is on the court and you think there’s no way he’s that age. He didn’t back down from anyone.”
As an assistant coach for Canada’s junior national team, Cheng would come to see much more of Primo since that day in 2018.
Over time, Cheng grew to understand this much about the tenderfoot guard from Alabama the Spurs stunned the NBA world by drafting 12th overall Thursday: Underestimate Primo at your own risk.
No matter the level, no matter the competition, Cheng said, Primo always looks like he belongs.
“He plays against older guys and never looks out of place,” Cheng said. “He’s absolutely fearless.”
It took a later conversation with an NBA scout friend for Cheng’s thoughts about Primo to fully crystallize.
“(The scout) said, ‘His mannerisms, competitiveness, the lion in him — it reminds me of Kobe Bryant when he was that age,’” Cheng recalled. “He has that swag.”
Don’t get it twisted. Nobody in San Antonio or anyplace else is expecting the youngest player in this year’s draft pool to morph into one of the greatest players of all time.
Up until two months ago, most draft analysts projected Primo — who will not turn 19 until Christmas Eve — to drop into the second round.
In using their second consecutive lottery pick on the 6-foot-6 Primo, the Spurs are betting that his blend of skills, outsized confidence and sky-is-the-limit growth potential eventually can make him into one of the stars of this year’s draft class.
To Spurs general manager Brian Wright, Primo’s youth was not a detriment but a selling point.
“He was the equivalent of a high school senior playing starter level minutes in the SEC,” Wright said. “We do think there is big upside there, and he will continue to improve.”
Primo’s early selection was perhaps the surprise of Thursday’s draft.
There were more established, NBA-ready prospects available at No. 12, among them Arkansas guard Moses Moody, sharpshooting Gonzaga forward Corey Kispert and Turkish phenom Alperen Sengun.
The Spurs instead took a player who looks like he still gets carded at Chuck E. Cheese.
Even Primo admitted he was not expecting to hear his name called so early.
Not among the prospects invited to await his big moment inside the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, Primo watched the draft with friends and family at the Hunt and Fish Club, a steak and seafood restaurant across the East River in Manhattan.
When Primo’s agent, Todd Ramasar, informed him of the Spurs’ choice, the teenager broke down.
“I let my emotions flow,” Primo said. “It was an amazing moment for me and my family, to know that I was able to go to the Spurs.”
Young and restless
Raised primarily by his father, Michael, after the death of his mother, Sandra, in November 2012, Primo grew up with an older brother, also named Michael, and older sister Keisha.
Primo said he felt his late mother’s presence with the Spurs on the clock at No. 12.
“She was born Jan. 12,” said Primo, who was 9 when his mother died. “So it was amazing to honor her by getting drafted (12th) like this.”
Primo’s rocket ship ride to the NBA lottery has been the stuff of a Jeff Bezos fever dream.
A native of Toronto, Primo spent time at five high schools — including prep schools in West Virginia and Arizona — before deciding to press fast forward on his NBA dream.
With enough credits to graduate early, Primo reclassified as a senior midway through his 11th-grade year at Compass Prep in Chandler, Ariz. He returned to Toronto to finish school and graduate early.
In April 2020, Primo signed with Alabama, instantly becoming the youngest player in all of college basketball at age 17. By late December, coach Nate Oats had elevated Primo to the Crimson Tide starting lineup.
Primo started 19 of Alabama’s 33 games as a freshman, averaging 8.1 points and shooting 38.1 percent from 3-point range.
Though his final college numbers don’t pop off a page, a pair of sweet-shooting 22-point games against LSU and rival Auburn gave hint at Primo’s untapped potential.
“In some of those, he was as good as anybody on the floor,” Oats said. “And he was 17 years old.”
Playing beyond his years
The ability to hold his own with older players has been a lifelong theme for Primo.
Before landing at Alabama, Primo spent time with Canada’s junior national team, where at age 16 he was the youngest player on the squad.
Cheng was an assistant coach with Team Canada at the 2019 Under-19 FIBA World Cup in Greece.
He noticed how Primo gravitated to older players on the team, including A.J. Lawson, who this week signed with the Miami Heat; Karim Mane, who last season enjoyed a cup of cappuccino with Orlando; and Matthew Alexander-Moncrieffe, who played alongside No. 1 overall pick Cade Cunningham at Oklahoma State last season.
“He would surround himself with guys who were at the level he aspired to be at,” Cheng said. “I hardly ever saw him playing with his own age group.”
Assigned as Primo’s primary film partner in Greece, Cheng quickly recognized his new pupil’s basketball acumen in the video room.
“He saw things himself that I would have to point out to other young players,” Cheng said. “He has one of those minds.”
After Alabama’s 2020-21 season ended with a Sweet 16 loss to UCLA, Primo decided to dip his toes in the NBA draft waters.
The plan was for Primo to wade through the early part of the process, see where he stood, then return to Alabama for his sophomore season if he didn’t get answers he liked.
“A lot of people had me written off for this draft and had me in 2022,” Primo said. “What I just wanted to do was come in and work as hard as possible and just see where things went from there.”
At first, those in Primo’s orbit assumed he would be back in Tuscaloosa in the fall.
“I thought he was going to go back,” Cheng said. “He thought he was going to go back. Then he went to the combine and his agent started telling him, ‘I think you’ve got a chance here.’”
Shooting up the draft board
At the Chicago combine, the Spurs were impressed with a versatility Primo had not yet been asked to display in college.
At Alabama, Primo had been deployed primarily as a spot-up shooter.
“When we got to the combine, we saw him in a completely different role,” Wright said. “We saw him playing some point guard at times, playing off the ball and creating at times. You saw flashes that you would see in season.”
The Spurs were not the only team to take note of Primo’s new bag of tricks. As the buzz around him began to grow, with a first-round selection now seeming not only possible but probable, Primo stayed in the draft.
Though most mock drafts heading into Thursday had Primo slotted in the 20s, the Spurs believed they were going to face competition for him much earlier than that.
According to a Sports Illustrated report, Charlotte was considering Primo at No. 11 before Connecticut’s James Bouknight surprisingly slid.
Oklahoma City, with picks at No. 16 and No. 18, also was thought to be interested, as was Atlanta at No. 20.
As the Spurs’ turn came up at No. 12, the mood in their draft room galvanized around the belief that if the team wanted Primo, now was the time.
“We thought Josh was the best decision we could make for our organization moving forward at the time we picked him up,” Wright said.
‘No pressure from us’
What happens next for Primo remains to be seen.
At 18 years and 217 days, Primo is the youngest player drafted by the Spurs since they joined the NBA in 1976. He will be the youngest player to enter the league since Milwaukee drafted future MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo in 2013.
Had Primo elected to play a second college season, NBA scouts expect he would have vaulted into top-10 territory in the 2022 draft.
The Spurs are wagering that spending the next year in their own development program will accelerate Primo’s learning curve.
In the short term, the Spurs aim to keep expectations low for their newest wunderkind.
“Josh’s development timeline will be Josh’s development timeline,” Wright said. “I think what we are focused on is the type of person he is, the work he will put in to continue improving his craft, and how he will impact our team long term.
“There is no pressure from us.”
For now, Primo will play with the club’s summer league squad beginning next week in Salt Lake City and then Las Vegas. A G League stint is almost certain once the regular season begins in October.
Those who know Primo best say he is up for whatever challenge awaits.
“How much he’s going to help this year, I don’t know,” Oats said. “He’s so young, but he’s going to be really, really good in the near future. There’s no red flags that will deter him from reaching his potential.”
For Cheng, it is not a matter of if Primo will become a productive NBA player, but when.
And he believes the answer will come sooner that most people expect.
Watching the NBA draft on television Thursday, Cheng said he was struck by the moment Primo’s name was called.
On the screen before him, Cheng saw the same baby face he remembered from that Toronto gym three years ago.
The lion inside Primo is certain to follow him to San Antonio, too.
“The Spurs got a good one,” Cheng said. “He’s going to be a really good pro for a really long time.”


https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/For-San-Antonio-Spurs-babyfaced-draftee-Josh-16354837.php

[ElNono]

like I said he's very advanced for his age. Nobody on our team can shoot 3s off the dribble like that. Most guys can't even shoot 35% from 3, let alone shake a defender and hit the pull up on a stepback

Imagine how good he's going to look after playing his first two seasons in Austin!

[RC_Drunkford]

Imagine how good he's going to look after playing his first two seasons in Austin!

About the same he looks now, probably just with some added muscle mass. But yeah, no way Pop plays him on the big squad this season

[exstatic]

Good read on the Spurs draft…
https://frontofficegurus.com/2021/07/31/nba-draft-2021-5-favorite-drafts/

It also ties into their reasoning for continually drafting 6-4 to 6-6 players.

[BackHome]

Ok I got a little teary eyed when he mentioned his mom was born on the 12th and we drafted him as the 12th pick. The more I read and the more I watch tape of him the more I like this kid I can easily see how he started to move up in the draft and why teams and the Spurs liked him. He is definitely 100% Spurs material he has that Charisma that Keldon has I think those two will hit it off and the chemistry is going to be great on this team moving forward.

I also think drafting him shows we are clearly on the rebuild it’s going to be interesting in what we do in free agency. Hopefully we are able to work out a trade with Derozz where we get either a young player or a draft pick - He’ll I am OK with getting an old vet on a one year bad contract if it gets us a good draft pick.

One thing for sure is that Austin is going to be fun to go to watch our new draft picks from last year and this year play. Since we won’t be competing for a playoff I think will see a lot more of our draft picks get playing time then we have ever had. I think will finely get a good idea of what we have with our young core as Murray, White, Walker, Vassel, Luka, Tre, are all going to see major minutes.

[Uriel]

OP, do you have any insight into how involved RC Buford was in this draft selection?

[bluebellmaniac]

Good read on the Spurs draft…
https://frontofficegurus.com/2021/07/31/nba-draft-2021-5-favorite-drafts/

Max Feldman is gonna land himself a nice NBA job in a scouting dept.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/chase_shannon/status/1421191249374203913

[objective]

That Murray tweet reminded me of when Cousins had a negative public reaction to the drafting of Giorgios Papagiannis.

A gm who might have been in over his head reaches in the late lottery and takes an 18 year old 20+ spots ahead of public projection, and gets roasted by his star player.

Afterwards, his comments to the media play up how young the pick is and emphasizes that if the player had stayed another year, he would have been out of their reach the next year because they were so good and on that trajectory. The gm goes on to say that the player is or has the chance to be a future all-star.

Let's hope that Brian Wright knows what he's doing in the draft and in 5 years we aren't reminiscing about Joshuos Primogiannis.

On the bright side, the next 5 picks after Papagiannis were all scrubs or mediocre nobodies. If the next 5 picks after Primo end up the same, then no harm no foul

[slick'81]

That Murray tweet reminded me of when Cousins had a negative public reaction to the drafting of Giorgios Papagiannis.

A gm who might have been in over his head reaches in the late lottery and takes an 18 year old 20+ spots ahead of public projection, and gets roasted by his star player.

Afterwards, his comments to the media play up how young the pick is and emphasizes that if the player had stayed another year, he would have been out of their reach the next year because they were so good and on that trajectory. The gm goes on to say that the player is or has the chance to be a future all-star.

Let's hope that Brian Wright knows what he's doing in the draft and in 5 years we aren't reminiscing about Joshuos Primogiannis.

On the bright side, the next 5 picks after Papagiannis were all scrubs or mediocre nobodies. If the next 5 picks after Primo end up the same, then no harm no foul


Moddy or sengun. Obviously i preferred sengun but apparently sa had lil interest. Is primo better then moody? Who knows but on the bright side ,if primo busts its bye bye Brian wrong

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

CR9fYuSp75G

That's a "girl we need to talk" face

[Dex]

This kid better turn into something special. That's all I'm going to say.

[slick'81]

This kid better turn into something special. That's all I'm going to say.


:lol Not a fan dex?

[Dex]

:lol Not a fan dex?

Not really. We left a lot of talent on the board.

If Sengun or Kai Jones or Jalen Johnson or any other number of players turn into a star, this pick is going to be a black mark on the organization.

I thought I was kidding when I said the Spurs were going to reach for another guard with the #12 pick...but this is our reality. We now have 7 guard projects....Murray, White, Walker, Johnson, Jones, Primo, Wieskamp.

Yes, some of them can theoretically slide into the SF spot...but how about drafting an actual fucking small forward? Seemed to work pretty well when we picked up Kawhi.

Maybe they see something I don't...or maybe we just wasted a lottery pick on the next Cory Joseph.

[El Santo]

This kid better turn into something special. That's all I'm going to say.

Yep and if Segun or Kai turn into something special and this kid doesnt the spurs GM should lose his job..

[slick'81]

Not really. We left a lot of talent on the board.

If Sengun or Kai Jones or Jalen Johnson or any other number of players turn into a star, this pick is going to be a black mark on the organization.

I thought I was kidding when I said the Spurs were going to reach for another guard with the #12 pick...but this is our reality. We now have 7 guard projects....Murray, White, Walker, Johnson, Jones, Primo, Wieskamp.

Yes, some of them can theoretically slide into the SF spot...but how about drafting an actual fucking small forward? Seemed to work pretty well when we picked up Kawhi.

Maybe they see something I don't...or maybe we just wasted a lottery pick on the next Cory Joseph.

i just hope he goes the vassel route and plays during his rookie year. Highly doubtful knowing pop but id be ecstatic. Still praying he has some tony parker mojo as an unexpected pick who comes outta nowhere to make an impact

[Dex]

i just hope he goes the vassel route and plays during his rookie year. Highly doubtful knowing pop but id be ecstatic. Still praying he has some tony parker mojo as an unexpected pick who comes outta nowhere to make an impact

He's 18. He won't turn 19 until Christmas Eve. He only played 30 games for Alabama and averaged 8 points.

I probably have a better chance of playing with the Spurs next season than our #12 pick in the draft does.

[Dejounte]

People are way too attached to Kai and Sengun. Even Presti passed up on Sengun. Twice. That should tell you something.

[Dex]

People are way too attached to Kai and Sengun. Even Presti passed up on Sengun. Twice. That should tell you something.

Time will tell.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm going on record now as saying that this pick was a mistake.

If Primo becomes our guard of the future, I'll gladly eat crow.

[slick'81]

People are way too attached to Kai and Sengun. Even Presti passed up on Sengun. Twice. That should tell you something.


:lol I was just gonna say if presti traded him i shouldn't be too worried

[objective]

Presti had picks ahead of and passed on these players:

Jimmy Butler, Khris Middleton, Giannis atentokunpo, Rudy Gobert, Nikola Jokic, Clint Capela, Draymond Green, Bogdan Bog, Bojan Bog, Derrick White, OG Anunoby, Keldon Johnson, Taj Gibson

Presti is pretty good and has earned his rep, but he's passed on hall of famers, all stars, and quality starters for worse players like everyone else and has his own failures

[Mr. Body]

People are way too attached to Kai and Sengun. Even Presti passed up on Sengun. Twice. That should tell you something.

People never should have been attached to Kai Jones. People claiming he has "unlimited potential." That his upside is Antetokuonmpo. That he's a unicorn.

These people are cracked in the head. His ceiling is remarkably low. He might catch some lobs and run full court for Charlotte and maybe block shots, but that's pretty much it.

[TD 21]

We now have 7 guard projects....Murray, White, Walker, Johnson, Jones, Primo, Wieskamp.

Yes, some of them can theoretically slide into the SF spot...but how about drafting an actual fucking small forward? Seemed to work pretty well when we picked up Kawhi.

White was never a project, Jones isn't really either and Johnson and Wieskamp are SF's.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

https://i.imgflip.com/5i8njn.jpg

[Dejounte]

Presti had picks ahead of and passed on these players:

Jimmy Butler, Khris Middleton, Giannis atentokunpo, Rudy Gobert, Nikola Jokic, Clint Capela, Draymond Green, Bogdan Bog, Bojan Bog, Derrick White, OG Anunoby, Keldon Johnson, Taj Gibson

Presti is pretty good and has earned his rep, but he's passed on hall of famers, all stars, and quality starters for worse players like everyone else and has his own failures

Let’s take a step back…

which player(s) are you upset about the Spurs not drafting?

if it’s one player, like say Sengun, what led you to the conclusion that he’s guaranteed to be something special? Is it your superior scouting skills? Or the consensus of mock drafts floating online? Next, you listed players that Presti had missed out on, so is it safe to say your scouting skills are perfect or the consensus of mock drafts have never been wrong?

just working out your logic here. There are two separate hot topics about the draft:

1) that there was definitely player or players that the Spurs missed the boat on
2) they could have traded down (which has been disproven already by multiple reports)

we are arguing point 1. Just to be clear.

now, if we’re arguing playerS (plural), well it’s not a stretch that there could be ONE good player out of six players that could become good that the Spurs passed up on. You’re not actually making a hard prediction there.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Let’s take a step back…

which player(s) are you upset about the Spurs not drafting?

if it’s one player, like say Sengun, what led you to the conclusion that he’s guaranteed to be something special? Is it your superior scouting skills? Or the consensus of mock drafts floating online? Next, you listed players that Presti had missed out on, so is it safe to say your scouting skills are perfect or the consensus of mock drafts have never been wrong?

just working out your logic here. There are two separate hot topics about the draft:

1) that there was definitely player or players that the Spurs missed the boat on
2) they could have traded down (which has been disproven already by multiple reports)

we are arguing point 1. Just to be clear.

now, if we’re arguing playerS (plural), well it’s not a stretch that there could be ONE good player out of six players that could become good that the Spurs passed up on. You’re not actually making a hard prediction there.

you sure write long posts

[Dejounte]

you sure write long posts

i love to breakdown the rationale that people have behind their strong feelings towards things

people misconstrue that as me being on a particular side on a subject matter, when it’s just me seeking understanding.

when someone learns something new (including myself), everybody wins.

when people admit they don’t know—that’s true wisdom.

[Dejounte]

High school scouting report
Date: 2/20

”Versatile guard who is more of a secondary ball handler right now but should be a playmaker who can score and create regardless of position. Has smooth stroke with ability to hit shots off the catch and pull from both midrange and three. Also has impressive touch on floater. Changes speeds well off bounce. High feel usually aids his shot selection; doesn’t typically force too many bad shots. Combination of size, long/lean frame and feel give him potential as a multi-positional defender as he gets stronger. Has pretty safe floor to go with a very high upside given his potential on both sides of the court. High major starter with normal continued development.”

https://247sports.com/player/josh-primo-46059188/

[JeffDuncan]

you sure write long posts


Yes, he does. But I was disappointed in that one, since he didn’t show any creative use of fonts, or include any tweets or instagram pix. It was beneath the standards we’ve come to expect. Can’t expect a guy to be at the top of his game all the time, tho, and I hope he perks up soon.

[objective]

Let’s take a step back…

which player(s) are you upset about the Spurs not drafting?

if it’s one player, like say Sengun, what led you to the conclusion that he’s guaranteed to be something special? Is it your superior scouting skills? Or the consensus of mock drafts floating online? Next, you listed players that Presti had missed out on, so is it safe to say your scouting skills are perfect or the consensus of mock drafts have never been wrong?

just working out your logic here. There are two separate hot topics about the draft:

1) that there was definitely player or players that the Spurs missed the boat on
2) they could have traded down (which has been disproven already by multiple reports)

we are arguing point 1. Just to be clear.

now, if we’re arguing playerS (plural), well it’s not a stretch that there could be ONE good player out of six players that could become good that the Spurs passed up on. You’re not actually making a hard prediction there.

The point was that presti passing on a player doesn't equal the player being not good enough to draft

Hell, presti passed on Primo when he had a chance

[Dejounte]

1/23/21 Article on Josh Primo

“… He’s progressed a lot. He’s come along, man. Like when he first got here, he was a nervous little freshman -- just how I was when I was a freshman. There’s a lot of older guys on this team. We all just try to give him confidence every day and give him little pointers every now and then. But he’s a very fast learner, so we’ve just been learning off of each other. We’ve been playing well together, I feel like, when me and him are on the court together.“

“He came in, played the first handful of games at 17 years old,” Oats said. “He’s young, looks young, at times, played like he was young, but you always could see the potential. You knew what he was capable of doing based on what you saw him doing in practice. And he spends so much time in the gym. He’s one of the biggest gym rats we have on the team. You knew that if he just kept working that good things are gonna happen.
“Now, nobody could have predicted he’s gonna score 14 of the first 16 points we scored against Auburn or go 6-of-8 from three at LSU like he’s done, so he’s exceeding expectations in that regard. I think he’s got a lot more room to grow. His ceiling’s much higher than what he’s even showing. We’re just gonna keep working, working, working until we get him a lot closer to that ceiling.”


And Oats and company believe the freshman guard is just getting started.
“I think he’s gonna be a guy that when he leaves here and goes plays professionally, he’s gonna continue to get better because he spends so much time in the gym and he’s 6-6 with a huge wingspan, weighs almost 200 pounds and is athletic,” Oats said. “He’s got all of those things that you can’t coach, and then he’s super coachable on top of that stuff. Really happy for him. He’s a great kid. If you have any conversations with him, he’s just all about the right stuff.
“A great kid to have in our program, and he’s really helped us in our culture this year.”

https://247sports.com/Article/Alabama-Basketball-A-progressing-Josh-Primo-still-has-a-lot-more-room-to-grow-159779799/

[Mr. Body]

High school scouting report
Date: 2/20

”Versatile guard who is more of a secondary ball handler right now but should be a playmaker who can score and create regardless of position. Has smooth stroke with ability to hit shots off the catch and pull from both midrange and three. Also has impressive touch on floater. Changes speeds well off bounce. High feel usually aids his shot selection; doesn’t typically force too many bad shots. Combination of size, long/lean frame and feel give him potential as a multi-positional defender as he gets stronger. Has pretty safe floor to go with a very high upside given his potential on both sides of the court. High major starter with normal continued development.”

https://247sports.com/player/josh-primo-46059188/

Worth mentioning again that he was supposed to be a high school senior this last year. Instead he was playing college.

[Dejounte]

12/10/21 Article on Josh Primo

Quote is from a senior (at the time) and fellow NBA draftee, Herb Jones, saying this about a freshman:

There is plenty of basketball in front of the talented freshman, and his ability is starting to show on the court. But something his new teammates have noticed is the newcomer’s effort.

“He’s a great player,” said senior wing Herbert Jones (https://247sports.com/Player/Herbert-Jones-86694) on Thursday’s Zoom call. “He plays hard. He can defend well. He can shoot the ball well. He can handle the ball well. He doesn’t have a lot of holes in his game. I mean, I try to play as hard as him at times. He doesn’t know that, but yeah, I try to play as hard as him most times.”

https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Article/Freshman-Josh-Primo-getting-up-to-speed-for-Alabama-basketball-156570343/

[Dejounte]

6/5/2020 Article on Josh Primo:

As Boone pointed out, guards thrive in Oats’ system, and several talented guards flourished in his tenure at Buffalo -- and even Alabama last year. But Primo stands out to the coach.

“I think he’s got higher upside than all of them,” Oats told 247Sports last month (https://247sports.com/college/alabama/LongFormArticle/Alabama-Basketball-coach-Nate-Oats-goes-one-on-one-with-247Sports-Social-Distance-146837445/). “He’s like a 6-6 point guard/combo guard, so he’s got size, and he’s a great kid. If you go back to the Buffalo days, we had some pretty good guards there, and that’s why we made it up to 14th in the country. But C.J. Massinburg, a really high character guy, Davonta Jordan, Wes Clark played for me in high school. Those guys all love basketball, high-character kids. Josh is the same way.

“He’s just 6-6 and really athletic, so that’s why he’s projected out a little higher than maybe some of those other guys. Hopefully, we get him down here and he’s as good or better than advertised. Obviously, he’s never done it at a college level, but he’s played on an international level, playing on the Canadian national team. He was the youngest guy in Greece last summer and the youngest guy on any of those teams from across the world. I think he’s got a really, really high upside, he loves basketball, wants to be in the gym and he’s a great, great kid, too.”

[objective]

One of the few draft related podcasts that had predraft coverage of Primo, Upside Swings

June 19th episode (https://anchor.fm/bryce-w-hendricks/episodes/Rising-Wings-in-the-2021-Draft-e1338tk)

Primo talk is near the end, about an hour in

[Dejounte]

Quotes from Primo, right before the draft:

“Going into this season, what I figured out was just really trying to find out what my team needed most. Really just adapting to what my team needs from me. Whether that’s leadership or type of energy I need to bring, I really just focused on that. If it needs to be defensively, it’ll be defensively. If it’s offensively, it’s offensively. Sometimes it’s just lifting up my teammates. I can do all those things and am able to adapt.”

Additionally, the days of playing just one position are over. The best players in the world are able to play at least two positions as the game shifts to a more positionless style. Luckily for Primo, he fits that mold and understands the direction the NBA is going.

“I think this game has become more or less positionless. I’m able to play one through three and defend those positions as well. I think I’ll be able to fit well in this positionless league,” said Primo.

At 6-foot-6, Primo can shoot, facilitate, pass, defend and be an influential leader on the court. He’s also ambidextrous, saying that the only reason he shoots with his right hand is because that’s how his dad taught him, but everything else he does with his left hand.


In terms of a successful rookie season, Primo has his mind set on accomplishing his team’s goals. With the versatility he brings, he can fill any role he needs to and help impact winning immediately. With that in mind, he laid out a few goals for his first NBA season.

“I want the team that I’m on to have achieved the goals that they set out," said the projected first-round pick. "Second, being one of the most influential rookies, a guy that affects the game from the start. Being that guy with the energy all year that was able to help his team be successful through what he’s able to do. I think I’m a very intellectual player, someone who can read defenses well, offenses well, and adapt very quickly. Being able to adapt to whatever situation I’m in. I’m able to mold myself into anything I need to be.”

Primo has the right mindset and vision to be end up being one of the biggest steals in his class.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nba/thunder/.amp/draft-coverage/nba-draft-josh-primo-is-primed-to-take-league-by-storm-as-youngest-player

[TheChillFactor]

Worth mentioning again that he was supposed to be a high school senior this last year. Instead he was playing college.

one way to view it is that we drafted the first high school player since 2006.

we never drafted those kind of projects in our golden era, this should be fun to see if he becomes TMac or Jonathan Bender.

[PrimeMinister]

He’s a basketball savant that is the same age as an essentially straight from high school prospect. There was another notable prodigious high school age player taken for his potential around 12 in the 90s.

Are we convinced Sengun or Moody was the key to this orgs future? Time will tell. I liked Sengun but teams are privy to so much more in the way of workouts and meetings that I won’t pretend to know something they don’t.

The shock of this will pass. As the dust has settled, circling back to primo and doing a more in depth dive on him, it’s clear why this pick was made. He was the orgs best chance at a franchise altering talent in the first round of this draft and I’m confident time will bear that out.

[Dejounte]

These quotes are the most telling for me:

He knows that this is an advantage for him and looks forward to the challenge. Being the intelligent young player that he is, Primo understands how impactful playing with professionals will be from a development standpoint.

“The best part about it is knowing that I’m going to learn so much at this age that I’m at right now,” said the Alabama prospect. “Being able to come into the league and learn those things first hand that I might not have learned going back an extra year. I know that at 21 or 22, I’m going to be a lot better off for this. I’ll have that much more knowledge.”

By the time Primo is 25, he’ll be an NBA veteran with upwards of seven years of experience. To the right team, that makes him as attractive as nearly any prospect.
With that in mind, being the youngest guy on the court isn’t anything new to Primo.

He represented Canada in the 2019 FIBA Under-19 Basketball World Cup at just 16 years old as the youngest player on the team. Additionally, in both high school and AAU basketball, he frequently played with guys many years older than him.

Primo considers playing up as something that’s helped him get to where he is now and will prepare him for the NBA.

“I think it was one of the biggest pieces for myself. I’ve always played up, whether it’s one, two, or three years up. I came into it giving everything I have, knowing I’m a basketball player and so is everyone else. Coming into every situation doing what I know how to do I think gives you that type of confidence that you can play in any situation. You’re able to adapt.”

https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/draft-coverage/nba-draft-josh-primo-is-primed-to-take-league-by-storm-as-youngest-player

He always plays up. It's no wonder he wanted to play for the Spurs. He's seeking knowledge at every step of the way.

I've always said basketball is as much of a mental game as it is physical, if not more.

[GreekSpursfan]

Everything depends on his work ethic, he's behind other prospects right now but he can cover that ground if he's dedicated enough on and off the court. Too soon to say anything, too many variables

[SAGirl]

I look forward to watching him in SL, there’s not a lot of video on him. Share if you do find.
The thread is long and I don’t know if this one was posted.

https://youtu.be/-yBwis43OPE

[PrimeMinister]

You can tell he’s from the generation of kids that grew up watching steph in that shot form.

highly recommend checking out the combine scrimmage in its entirety if you haven’t already. Shows more on ball potential and is essentially his teams primary ball handler.

[Dejounte]

You can tell he’s from the generation of kids that grew up watching steph in that shot form.

highly recommend checking out the combine scrimmage in its entirety if you haven’t already. Shows more on ball potential and is essentially his teams primary ball handler.

Yes, the scrimmage is the best source for getting an idea of his upside. The next best will be the upcoming summer league. His college tape is lackadaisical in seeing what he’s capable of. Really hidden by senior players.

[duncan2150]

I look forward to watching him in SL, there’s not a lot of video on him. Share if you do find.
The thread is long and I don’t know if this one was posted.

https://youtu.be/-yBwis43OPE

If you want more than one hour of Primo, here we go lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZpEV4CV0sM

[SAGirl]

You can tell he’s from the generation of kids that grew up watching steph in that shot form.

highly recommend checking out the combine scrimmage in its entirety if you haven’t already. Shows more on ball potential and is essentially his teams primary ball handler.
Can you link me where it is. I did a quick search and the only thing I found was a snippet of him doing shooting drills at the combine.

[BacktoBasics]

He’s saying the right things but also sounds like he’s expecting to impact the game at the pro level for his rookie year. That’s what I’m reading from his comments. I hope he isn’t put off by having to play in Austin. Surely he understands that it’s probably a 2 year plan to becoming a rotation player on the main squad.

[Kurik]

He’s saying the right things but also sounds like he’s expecting to impact the game at the pro level for his rookie year. That’s what I’m reading from his comments. I hope he isn’t put off by having to play in Austin. Surely he understands that it’s probably a 2 year plan to becoming a rotation player on the main squad.

While I’m hoping it won’t take 2 years he did play a limited role for Alabama so I think he will be fine if he does get assigned to the Gleague. Seems like a very coachable player.

[GAustex]

Grim short term out look with your highest pick in a while needing two years in the minors

I guess we knew that

[Atl Spur]

I would hold off on assuming he won’t play nice minutes with the big squad....... I think they want him as our point guard

[Manu&Duncan fan]

These quotes are the most telling for me:

He knows that this is an advantage for him and looks forward to the challenge. Being the intelligent young player that he is, Primo understands how impactful playing with professionals will be from a development standpoint.

Thank you Dejounte for all the information to collected and shared! Thank you for your insight and basketball wisdom! I'm all in and I trust the FO!

“The best part about it is knowing that I’m going to learn so much at this age that I’m at right now,” said the Alabama prospect. “Being able to come into the league and learn those things first hand that I might not have learned going back an extra year. I know that at 21 or 22, I’m going to be a lot better off for this. I’ll have that much more knowledge.”

By the time Primo is 25, he’ll be an NBA veteran with upwards of seven years of experience. To the right team, that makes him as attractive as nearly any prospect.
With that in mind, being the youngest guy on the court isn’t anything new to Primo.

He represented Canada in the 2019 FIBA Under-19 Basketball World Cup at just 16 years old as the youngest player on the team. Additionally, in both high school and AAU basketball, he frequently played with guys many years older than him.

Primo considers playing up as something that’s helped him get to where he is now and will prepare him for the NBA.

“I think it was one of the biggest pieces for myself. I’ve always played up, whether it’s one, two, or three years up. I came into it giving everything I have, knowing I’m a basketball player and so is everyone else. Coming into every situation doing what I know how to do I think gives you that type of confidence that you can play in any situation. You’re able to adapt.”

https://www.si.com/nba/thunder/draft-coverage/nba-draft-josh-primo-is-primed-to-take-league-by-storm-as-youngest-player

He always plays up. It's no wonder he wanted to play for the Spurs. He's seeking knowledge at every step of the way.

I've always said basketball is as much of a mental game as it is physical, if not more.

[Joseph Kony]

Not sure if this was posted here or not:


[Marks, via the Lowe Post] "I got a couple texts from GMs saying if not for the Spurs, we'd be getting lambasted right now" in reference to how mock drafts don't always align with teams' interests

seems to confirm he was going to be taken in the lottery or just outside of it

[Dejounte]

My hot take is he'll be between Vassell's timeline and Keldon's timeline.

Vassell found playing time with the main team 1/4 through his first season.

Keldon found playing time with the main team 3/4 through his first season, and became a starter in his second season.

Talent finds a way. And IF Primo knows how to "sacrifice" and learn to play within a team concept as a role player immediately, he could find consistent playing time early.

[Eaglenole2002]

As much as I’d like to see him on the big squad, my guess is the best thing for his development is to get minutes as a primary scorer/ball handler in Austin for a good part of the season. If he were to play in SA early, he’d probably be stuck in the corner a lot.

[PhantomDashCam]

You can tell he’s from the generation of kids that grew up watching steph in that shot form.

highly recommend checking out the combine scrimmage in its entirety if you haven’t already. Shows more on ball potential and is essentially his teams primary ball handler.

About 40 seconds into this interview, you also see some of things he showed that intrigues. (About 1:20 of highlights).


https://youtu.be/TnZ-3QMQu-0

The ability to play on and off the ball is there. He makes that one handed whip pass across the baseline too, like he did in the scrimmage, a staple of the Spurs hammer play.

[8FOR!3]

About 40 seconds into this interview, you also see some of things he showed that intrigues. (About 1:20 of highlights).


https://youtu.be/TnZ-3QMQu-0

The ability to play on and off the ball is there. He makes that one handed whip pass across the baseline too, like he did in the scrimmage, a staple of the Spurs hammer play.

That hammer play baseline pass makes me miss Boris Diaw, that pass used to be automatic, or if the defense overplayed it he'd just use his body and do a little reverse layup.

[SAGirl]

He’s saying the right things but also sounds like he’s expecting to impact the game at the pro level for his rookie year. That’s what I’m reading from his comments. I hope he isn’t put off by having to play in Austin. Surely he understands that it’s probably a 2 year plan to becoming a rotation player on the main squad.
He might play right away. Even If it’s off the bench. This team doesn’t have enough shooting and may lose 2 of the teams best in Mills and Gay. I think he has a chance to play.

[Seventyniner]

And IF Primo knows how to "sacrifice" and learn to play within a team concept as a role player immediately, he could find consistent playing time early.

Primo's role at Alabama leads me to believe that this could easily happen. He seems to know when to defer and when to take over, and is willing to do either as circumstances dictate.

[SAGirl]

Not sure if this was posted here or not:



seems to confirm he was going to be taken in the lottery or just outside of it
That’s a good quote but I think it’s in reference to other questionable picks. I thought the Grizzlies moves weee extremely risky and they took a guy that could have been there at 17 anyways. Ziaire has more upside but may also very well bust. Grizzlies will be worse in the short term without JV and they helped a division rival improve!

GSW ended up with one guy Kuminga who is a specimen of tools alone, low BBIQ, can’t shoot, and awful defensively. He’s years away and not who they wanted at 7.

There’s a few GM that ended up with questionable fits like Davion Mitchell to Sacramento.

But the Spurs took the cake with a massive reach of a guy they likely could have taken later and traded down for. It’s unknown though and teams surprise you with picks all the time so they weren’t willing to take that risk, but they got the most heat for their pick.

It’s possible Primo was rising too, bit if he went outside the lottery and after Sengun and Moody were gone the reach is minor, not even that questionable.

[Mnky]

That’s a good quote but I think it’s in reference to other questionable picks. I thought the Grizzlies moves weee extremely risky and they took a guy that could have been there at 17 anyways. Ziaire has more upside but may also very well bust. Grizzlies will be worse in the short term without JV and they helped a division rival improve!

GSW ended up with one guy Kuminga who is a specimen of tools alone, low BBIQ, can’t shoot, and awful defensively. He’s years away and not who they wanted at 7.

There’s a few GM that ended up with questionable fits like Davion Mitchell to Sacramento.

But the Spurs took the cake with a massive reach of a guy they likely could have taken later and traded down for. It’s unknown though and teams surprise you with picks all the time so they weren’t willing to take that risk, but they got the most heat for their pick.

It’s possible Primo was rising too, bit if he went outside the lottery and after Sengun and Moody were gone the reach is minor, not even that questionable.

Couple pudnits had Primo top 20 after the combine and the most likely teams to take him outside the spurs were picking after the spurs. I fully believe he would not have lasted into the 20s, just as much as some believe he was a late first( most of who never saw a minute of his game). The kid was 17 playing basketball in the SEC. Became a starting point and the team turned into a winning team. At 17. He should have been a senior in high school but was helping a SEC team turn their season around.

Has what looks to be above average to elite shooting beyond the arc, the most valued commodity in the game today. Has above average size for a PG and above average athleticism.

All accounts that have spoken with him point out his intelligence and knowledge of the game And his ability to adapt it to his play.
At 18.

At 16 he was running with a national team.
At 16.

When people take the time to actually diagnose the kid, what he has to offer, and what he has accomplished, he was not a massive reach or even a reach at all.

[SAGirl]

Couple pudnits had Primo top 20 after the combine and the most likely teams to take him outside the spurs were picking after the spurs. I fully believe he would not have lasted into the 20s, just as much as some believe he was a late first( most of who never saw a minute of his game). The kid was 17 playing basketball in the SEC. Became a starting point and the team turned into a winning team. At 17. He should have been a senior in high school but was helping a SEC team turn their season around.

Has what looks to be above average to elite shooting beyond the arc, the most valued commodity in the game today. Has above average size for a PG and above average athleticism.

All accounts that have spoken with him point out his intelligence and knowledge of the game And his ability to adapt it to his play.
At 18.

At 16 he was running with a national team.
At 16.

When people take the time to actually diagnose the kid, what he has to offer, and what he has accomplished, he was not a massive reach or even a reach at all.
Not debating his qualities I’ve been here asking for info about him. I am trying to get familiar with his game.

Rather it’s revisionist to say a team right after was taking him. We don’t know and it’s unlikely. They could have and that’s why the Spurs jumped up and grabbed him at 12. Only time will tell if this will pan out. I was talking about a few very questionable moves from other teams that this perceived reach by the Spurs took the heat from. Do you understand my point? Bc you are arguing completely different points.

[BacktoBasics]

He might play right away. Even If it’s off the bench. This team doesn’t have enough shooting and may lose 2 of the teams best in Mills and Gay. I think he has a chance to play.

He basically played a year of college early. He’s essentially a high school kid with one year college experience. What was the last player at his age to have any impact on the game or crack a serious rotation at that age? Maybe Bron?

I always want a good look at our rookies but with this pick being so out there I’d rather they just bring him along as slowly and patiently as they need to. They can take their time. We’re not winning shit next year barring a miracle offseason.

They could take nearly 3 years grooming this kid before he has his first legal drink. So I suppose that’s good. He’s got all the time in the world and this team doesn’t even really have a window or timeline that would create any sense of urgency.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/KSATRJ/status/1421945906807676931

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/Matthew_Tynan/status/1421943572694241283

[SAGirl]

While the Spurs' scouting ability should still get the benefit of the doubt in my opinion, I don't think their developmental ability should. I don't know that they've done an above-average job with a player in a long time. So no, I don't think the idea of drafting Samanic as a two-year d-league project or stowing Primo away is a good idea. That's not the way most teams develop their top prospects, and it shouldn't be the way a team with such a lack of talent does so either. Doing so suggests the team is still a contender that has a full 10-man rotation and can't afford to give minutes to developmental players. That's not even close to true anymore. Devin Booker stared 51 games and averaged 28 minutes his rookie season despite being 18 years old when the season started. Giannis was starting two weeks after his 19th birthday. If you don't think Primo is good enough to unseat fucking Tre Jones, you can't draft him at 12. You just can't. Samanic should've been in the running for starting PF going into last year. Nothing about Lyles or that goddamned tiny hydra lineup should've stopped him.
I am 100 % on board with this thought. I think he can contribute shooting right away, which the team needs, and if they were to feel that they don’t have a spot available the they need to swing a trade. But right now, possibly the best outcome is letting Mills go and going all in with the BPA at 12 that you just drafted and let him earn reps and time from there.

100% agree that for a lottery team, it’s not the same than a playoff team drafting for a niche and letting that player get reps and play situationally (when there are injuries) until he “earns it.”

They need to bake that in to their draft prognostications. A poster above you just mentioned this fact. What is his upside? For us to see him in 2 years put up 8 and 3 off the bench? Surely not.

[tbdog]

He isn't ready yet SA Girl. Our second round pick is though.

[SAGirl]

He basically played a year of college early. He’s essentially a high school kid with one year college experience. What was the last player at his age to have any impact on the game or crack a serious rotation at that age? Maybe Bron?

I always want a good look at our rookies but with this pick being so out there I’d rather they just bring him along as slowly and patiently as they need to. They can take their time. We’re not winning shit next year barring a miracle offseason.

They could take nearly 3 years grooming this kid before he has his first legal drink. So I suppose that’s good. He’s got all the time in the world and this team doesn’t even really have a window or timeline that would create any sense of urgency.
He will get better with time, just like the following players have: Devin Booker, Giannis, Jaren Jackson Jr. I am sure there are others, but these are high profile enough that I remember.

One issue I have with stashing in the Gleague your lottery picks is a point that Chinook makes and I quoted ahead of this reply. The team isn’t good enough to be stashing guys. What’s worth a gamble on a lottery pick if he’s in the gleague 2 years? That’s a question of perceived ceiling. What’s a lottery pick to the team that won’t contribute to the team minutes for a full year or two, and then at that point needs to be brought in with baby steps? That’s ok for the Spurs when they had a full rotation of veterans that were in win now mode, and those development players played rest games for Manu and Tony, when there were injuries, etc.

The Spurs are no longer good enough to take two years developing guys.

[callo1]

He can finish with both hands, his 3pt shot has a consistent wonderful arc to it...looks good. I hope he pans out.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwzzNYnJczY

Video won't allow it to be embed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwzzNYnJczY

[SAGirl]

The only thing Murray posted was him smiling in a photo and smiley emojis

somehow SpursTalk is equating that as “disapproval”

that’s a huge leap and it’s misinformation that’s spreading like wildfire because you literally have pages and pages of people talking about it like it’s truth.
It was a cringing face and cringe emoji

[objective]

What's wrong with the g-league and long development cycles?

Putting Primo in the g-league is part of the process.

It's especially important if he's ready to play now.

He has to be broken down, lose his swag, and start doubting every move he makes on the court. He needs to start looking over his shoulder at the bench to see if he's being subbed, several times a possession.

Then he'll get a couple of games opportunity, and if he performs well, then Pop will talk him up post game with praise about how he's earned more opportunities and is forcing himself into minutes.

Then he'll get the DNP-CD and feel completely crushed, an empty shell of a player that can only doubt himself and realize that nothing means anything.

That's when he'll have gotten over himself. And he'll get chances the next year.

But the good news is that next year's draft will bring a new 6-5 lottery pick to watch in the g-league.

[BacktoBasics]

He will get better with time, just like the following players have: Devin Booker, Giannis, Jaren Jackson Jr. I am sure there are others, but these are high profile enough that I remember.

One issue I have with stashing in the Gleague your lottery picks is a point that Chinook makes and I quoted ahead of this reply. The team isn’t good enough to be stashing guys. What’s worth a gamble on a lottery pick if he’s in the gleague 2 years? That’s a question of perceived ceiling. What’s a lottery pick to the team that won’t contribute to the team minutes for a full year or two, and then at that point needs to be brought in with baby steps? That’s ok for the Spurs when they had a full rotation of veterans that were in win now mode, and those development players played rest games for Manu and Tony, when there were injuries, etc.

The Spurs are no longer good enough to take two years developing guys.

It’s never been a problem here but you can absolutely ruin a player by playing him too soon. I actually think Lonnie would have been a good example of that. He would have been blown off the court if he played his first couple seasons on most other teams.

His pace defensively and ability to move off ball are light years ahead of his rookie year. He just needed to develop around players that moved at his own level of play with a few sniffs of the next level.

If Lonnie becomes anything here or on another team it’ll be because our team was patient for two years while he came around and learned how to play beyond playground ball.

[K...]

the spurs vaunted player development is simply not adding any bad habits, not forcing them to be chucker, and letting guys play off Manu making them look better than they are. obv the last factor is expired which is why the strategy is less effective.

[SAGirl]

They (Wieskamp and Primo) were also reported to have workouts with the Spurs so that’s a key thing to lookout for in future pre-draft speculation. It was out in the open. Not very secret.
I remember reading from you specifically that it was your personal preference to not even look up at point guard prospects because you believed they weren’t looking for one because it takes Pop so long to train a PG to run the offense he wants and you just didn’t think they’d look to replace DJ.

Part of what stunned is not the reach alone, but what drew them to this kid was that he showed passing and dribbling abilities at the combine that he didn’t show at Alabama. They see him as a PG prospect who can already shoot well, has good size and will likely grow some, and who has a very high character.

If they had seen him just as a shooter he would for surely not have gone 12, he would have gone in the 25-35 range like he was initially mocked just based on past production.

More TO than assists in college, it’s definitely not without question, but him being a super young PG prospect that can shoot is what bumped him up their charts to BPA when they picked.

How do you feel about that? Bc I know that wasn’t your personal preference.

[Dejounte]

They haven’t called him a PG. they’ve noted that he’s played PG in spurts, which lines up with their post draft comments (and even some comments from today’s interview) that they’re looking for versatile players: players who can pass, players who can shoot, players who can defend multiple positions. That’s what they value. I recently posted a tweet that had Wright today regarding this.

Primo is as much as a PG as Lonnie is.

it’s hard to go by quotes in snippets. I recommend listening to full interviews for context.

[Mnky]

Do you understand my point? Bc you are arguing completely different points.

Huh?

I presented a counter to your point on Primo being a massive reach, as clearly stated. I literally argued word for word a point you brought up. :lol
Primo was not a massive reach based on the information provided.

[Spurs Homer]

Imagine how good he's going to look after playing his first FOUR seasons in Austin!


fify

[SAGirl]

I still can't wrap my head around this pick ...

-Primo's value was mostly due to the thinking that if he had gone back to Alabama and played really well, he probably becomes a late lottery pick in 2022. He wasn't going to become a high lottery pick because he doesn't have the physical tools to be a high lottery pick -- but he could have gone back to Alabama and worked himself into that 10 to 15 range if all went well.

-Primo decides to stick in the draft after elevating his stock from the middle of the second round to the end of the first or beginning of the second. Teams drafting in that range would have viewed him as a pretty good investment, with the logic being that they'd spend a ~28th pick in 2021 on a guy who had like a 50/50 shot of being a ~12th pick in 2022. That math checks out.

-But ... the Spurs pick him instead with a late lottery pick in 2021. Trying to get that logic to work is difficult. For it to make sense, they have to be like 100% certain he is going to make that big jump. Without that big jump, there was no way he was going to be a lottery pick next year -- he would be a second rounder to undrafted without a sizeable leap forward. Picking him in the lottery this year made so little sense that Primo himself was shocked. I don't remember seeing a lottery pick who was so blown away by being picked in the lottery. I bet his agent was equally as stunned :lol

So, yeah, just a real head-scratcher. One scenario that may make sense is that the Spurs really wanted a developmental perimeter shooter. The two developmental perimeter shooters that stand out in this draft were Ziaire Williams and Primo. After Ziaire went tenth (a little surprising), perhaps that scared them enough to not trade back. Trading back when there's two guys you like is a lot easier than when you're down to the final player you really want.

I've also had the thought that this could have been a Chip Engelland pick. After taking a closer look at Primo's form, it's exactly how Engelland teaches. He prepares for the shot well, has a short, repeatable stroke, releases his off-hand before the shot is released and gets full extension. I could imagine Engelland looking at Primo shooting in a gym and telling everyone that he's going to be a great shooter down the line. Then if you look at him only as a shooting prospect, his 38% three-point shooting as a freshman in the SEC when he was the youngest player in college basketball makes him an enticing pick for a shooting starved team -- especially when you add in his elite character traits. On the other hand, though, using the late lottery to take an unproven shooting prospect with little upside elsewhere in his game is not a good use of that asset.

But bottom line, this goes down as at best a strange pick ... at worst a wasted pick. We'll see but it certainly doesn't give me confidence that the Spurs know how to pick in the lottery. Locking into one or two guys is okay when you're picking late in the first but it's a bad strategy when you're in the lottery.
I am almost 100 percent with you on this post, except I think this won’t be able to be fully judged until years down the line because there’s also an opportunity cost component of who else they passed up on to grab him and whether they were right to expect this guy to be a PG who had more TO than assists in college and produced efficiently when played as a SG, but is unknown as a PG (we don’t know how he will produce as a PG yet bc he didn’t do that at Alabama as you rightly note.)

It was risky obviously and requires a lot of projection.

Like you, Chip Engelland came to my mind, because he was the coach pushing Forbes forward the most. I hate to bring up Forbes because I hope Primo is much better and less one dimensional. But I remember when Forbes was a prospect the coaches hoped he could develop point guard skills and they sought to widen his repertoire from a gunner to add playmaking. He didn’t develop well in that regard and him going undrafted, they had nothing to lose trying.

But the point is that Chip was pushing for Forbes. He even made the team when the Spurs had no roster spots available and had to cut somebody IIRC. And it was because Chip had seen that Forbes’ shot was one of the most pure 3 pt shots he had seen in any prospect and they were super high on his shooting ability. That turned out to be right. Let me be clear. I don’t place any doubts on Chips ability to evaluate shooting talent.

However it’s the rest of his game what got him drafted 12 on top of that shooting talent. Its as you say, what would have made him a worth a lottery pick next season if he had gone to Alabama and shown passing and dribbling skills as a lead guard.

We won’t be able to completely judge this pick, specially considering the opportunity cost; the talent still available to the team at 12, what they passed up on because they ranked Primo higher.

I do think that because the team is starved for shooting and specially shooting prospects as you said, to them he was the BPA considering what they need, what the team is thirsty for.

Pop has always liked scoring PGs. Tony and Manu both were elite scorers with different styles but they could get their own bucket and set the table efficiently. His love for Patty knows no bounds and while playmaking is not Patty’s strength, his shooting most certainly is. It’s because of his shooting that he’s a consistently positive impact player when he’s on the court.

Primo has that same potential with his shooting (even moving off the ball) but is bigger with a better prospect for development as a lead ballhandler than Forbes and Patty and like both of them, he’s a high character team player, so I can see why they loved him.

There’s a lot of risk because if he doesn’t develop as a PG and he’s just a gunner wing, years down the road this won’t age well. Bottom line I think they valued shooting highly in this draft, and as you said he was the best shooting prospect in the board, as the others were much older, much more known qualities and not playmakers. It’s safe to say they are looking for a playmaker that can shoot.

[Spurs Homer]

Ok I got a little teary eyed when he mentioned his mom was born on the 12th and we drafted him as the 12th pick. The more I read and the more I watch tape of him the more I like this kid I can easily see how he started to move up in the draft and why teams and the Spurs liked him. He is definitely 100% Spurs material he has that Charisma that Keldon has I think those two will hit it off and the chemistry is going to be great on this team moving forward.

I also think drafting him shows we are clearly on the rebuild it’s going to be interesting in what we do in free agency. Hopefully we are able to work out a trade with Derozz where we get either a young player or a draft pick - He’ll I am OK with getting an old vet on a one year bad contract if it gets us a good draft pick.

One thing for sure is that Austin is going to be fun to go to watch our new draft picks from last year and this year play. Since we won’t be competing for a playoff I think will see a lot more of our draft picks get playing time then we have ever had. I think will finely get a good idea of what we have with our young core as Murray, White, Walker, Vassel, Luka, Tre, are all going to see major minutes.




:lol:lol:lol:rollin:rollin:rollin:flypig:flypig

[SAGirl]

Huh?

I presented a counter to your point on Primo being a massive reach, as clearly stated. I literally argued word for word a point you brought up. :lol
Primo was not a massive reach based on the information provided.
Ok thanks. Not my point but it’s already something I don’t care any further. You got triggered by something my friend.

[Dejounte]

CSDWXPwD7R1

Kid seems to have the same charming personality as Keldon does

If so, this team will be easy to root for in the near future (assuming he pans out)

[Chinook]

It’s never been a problem here but you can absolutely ruin a player by playing him too soon. I actually think Lonnie would have been a good example of that. He would have been blown off the court if he played his first couple seasons on most other teams.

His pace defensively and ability to move off ball are light years ahead of his rookie year. He just needed to develop around players that moved at his own level of play with a few sniffs of the next level.

If Lonnie becomes anything here or on another team it’ll be because our team was patient for two years while he came around and learned how to play beyond playground ball.

Nah.

[exstatic]

Nah.

Your opinion. The Spurs think differently. The big 3 have been gone for years, and they’re still sending each first rounder down for most of their first season.

[Chinook]

Your opinion. The Spurs think differently. The big 3 have been gone for years, and they’re still sending each first rounder down for most of their first season.

I don't know that anyone here is debating what move or PATFO's opinions are. But sure.

[BacktoBasics]

Nah.

It’s not like it’s every player. Vassell didn’t get the Lonnie treatment. There are times when Lonnie still looks like a moped on a highway but at least he’s functional. I certainly never felt like he was mentally weak but accepting a path to becoming a better player by playing down and developing is way more easy to absorb than getting destroyed by superior talent in your rookie year.

I think they’ve done a good job with Walker.

Had Walker been drafted by the Wolves or Bulls and I bet he’d be nowhere near where he’s at today. They would have just let him sink or swim.

[KobesAchilles]

Your opinion. The Spurs think differently. The big 3 have been gone for years, and they’re still sending each first rounder down for most of their first season.
And short of Derrick White, what is the success story? Bc Lonnie still has the same weaknesses he did as a rookie, he gets lost defensively and is passive. Vassell didn’t really play in Austin. Dejounte didn’t. Sammich still sucks. I guess you can say KJ but almost everyone here was saying how it was time for him to graduate to the big leagues. If anything is putting him in Austin for so long held him back a bit to the point where we got lucky as hell he even played his rookie year.

Everyone keeps touting about Austin this and Austin that. But had Pop backed away from the useless vets and actually committed to the youth they still would’ve learned the exact same fucking system

[BackHome]

I agree a little bit I think certain players it helped and certain players it probably hurt I know White was good to go and probably should have been brought up much earlier. While Walker it helped he is still bad on defense but at least he doesn't have that lost deer in the head light look.

I think Vassel could have used G League in getting a lot of minutes and getting confident and still being called up - I think right now in rebuilt mode all picks should be getting time with the big club if they not playing in G League put them with the big boys.

[RC_Drunkford]

He will get better with time, just like the following players have: Devin Booker, Giannis, Jaren Jackson Jr. I am sure there are others, but these are high profile enough that I remember.

One issue I have with stashing in the Gleague your lottery picks is a point that Chinook makes and I quoted ahead of this reply. The team isn’t good enough to be stashing guys. What’s worth a gamble on a lottery pick if he’s in the gleague 2 years? That’s a question of perceived ceiling. What’s a lottery pick to the team that won’t contribute to the team minutes for a full year or two, and then at that point needs to be brought in with baby steps? That’s ok for the Spurs when they had a full rotation of veterans that were in win now mode, and those development players played rest games for Manu and Tony, when there were injuries, etc.

The Spurs are no longer good enough to take two years developing guys.

I‘m with you on that but there’s one big problem here: Popovich

The old man only knows how to coach one way and weather we‘re in the lottery or the playoffs he will always pull the same shit. So get ready for Primo to have a whole season in Austin

[offset formation]

12/10/21 Article on Josh Primo

Quote is from a senior (at the time) and fellow NBA draftee, Herb Jones, saying this about a freshman:

There is plenty of basketball in front of the talented freshman, and his ability is starting to show on the court. But something his new teammates have noticed is the newcomer’s effort.

“He’s a great player,” said senior wing Herbert Jones (https://247sports.com/Player/Herbert-Jones-86694) on Thursday’s Zoom call. “He plays hard. He can defend well. He can shoot the ball well. He can handle the ball well. He doesn’t have a lot of holes in his game. I mean, I try to play as hard as him at times. He doesn’t know that, but yeah, I try to play as hard as him most times.”

https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Article/Freshman-Josh-Primo-getting-up-to-speed-for-Alabama-basketball-156570343/

future articles are awesome

[offset formation]

I‘m with you on that but there’s one big problem here: Popovich

The old man only knows how to coach one way and weather we‘re in the lottery or the playoffs he will always pull the same shit. So get ready for Primo to have a whole season in Austin

I actually doubt it. He gave Vassell some PT last season and if this kid is advanced as Vassell which he certainly seems to be, and we lose DeRozan, I cannot imagine a scenario where he doesn't get at least a bit of run.

[RC_Drunkford]

I actually doubt it. He gave Vassell some PT last season and if this kid is advanced as Vassell which he certainly seems to be, and we lose DeRozan, I cannot imagine a scenario where he doesn't get at least a bit of run.

yeah and after Vassell had his best game of the season he got benched for the rest of it. I can see plenty scenarios: Fournier, Micic, Mills. Some kind of vets will be added

[The Truth #6]

I think they are really prioritizing character and leadership qualities in the draft (except Luka, I don’t know what that was). This was a weird swing for the fences likely motivated by his personality and a glimmer of untapped potential from the Combine. The FO thinks they are probably playing it safe though, which is the irony, given the poor asset management. But hey, he’s here. We have troops on the ground now. Support the troops now, I guess. I mean, I can support him while also questioning the FO.

[bluebellmaniac]

future articles are awesome

Dejounte... Creating time paradoxes...

[Sugus]

And short of Derrick White, what is the success story? Bc Lonnie still has the same weaknesses he did as a rookie, he gets lost defensively and is passive. Vassell didn’t really play in Austin. Dejounte didn’t. Sammich still sucks. I guess you can say KJ but almost everyone here was saying how it was time for him to graduate to the big leagues. If anything is putting him in Austin for so long held him back a bit to the point where we got lucky as hell he even played his rookie year.

Everyone keeps touting about Austin this and Austin that. But had Pop backed away from the useless vets and actually committed to the youth they still would’ve learned the exact same fucking system

It's not about the system, it's about gradually increasing the skill level of the competition so as to not overmatch your rookie(s) and have them flame out after running against the "wall" that is the NBA.

There's plenty of success stories regarding players joining the G-League for development their rookie/first seasons (the GL website actually literally has a sidebar of "success stories", last time I checked headlined by Rudy Gobert and Khris Middleton). It's not just a "Spurs thing". It's much more plausible that the Spurs haven't crafted a diamond out of dirt, so to speak, out of Austin in recent years, because the talent they've had to work with was subpar, than the notion that the GL program itself doesn't work. And lastly, to your quoted remark - the fact that Pop can't get over himself and his pet-playing ways, isn't a detriment to the pro-GL argument - just a detriment of Pop as a coach. They're two separate matters - other coaches manage to both send rookies to the GL, and find them minutes with the normal team before they're mentally checked out from either never facing serious competition, feeling left out in regards to the core team, or never feeling like they're "good enough to play with the pros".

There's players with such a cutthroat mentality, that any wall they face, no matter how tough and overmatching, is just fuel for their fire. Kobe for example, not even going to college before getting to the NBA, and still managing to rise to the top. But that's much the exception, and not the rule. For the rest of players, the GL makes a ton of sense.

[KobesAchilles]

It's not about the system, it's about gradually increasing the skill level of the competition so as to not overmatch your rookie(s) and have them flame out after running against the "wall" that is the NBA.

There's plenty of success stories regarding players joining the G-League for development their rookie/first seasons (the GL website actually literally has a sidebar of "success stories", last time I checked headlined by Rudy Gobert and Khris Middleton). It's not just a "Spurs thing". It's much more plausible that the Spurs haven't crafted a diamond out of dirt, so to speak, out of Austin in recent years, because the talent they've had to work with was subpar, than the notion that the GL program itself doesn't work. And lastly, to your quoted remark - the fact that Pop can't get over himself and his pet-playing ways, isn't a detriment to the pro-GL argument - just a detriment of Pop as a coach. They're two separate matters - other coaches manage to both send rookies to the GL, and find them minutes with the normal team before they're mentally checked out from either never facing serious competition, feeling left out in regards to the core team, or never feeling like they're "good enough to play with the pros".

There's players with such a cutthroat mentality, that any wall they face, no matter how tough and overmatching, is just fuel for their fire. Kobe for example, not even going to college before getting to the NBA, and still managing to rise to the top. But that's much the exception, and not the rule. For the rest of players, the GL makes a ton of sense.

And if we used it correctly like other teams then I wouldnt be mad about it. Also Middleton wasn’t even drafted by MIL so that’s a moot point. There’s also lots of lottery picks that make the all star team that haven’t been to the G-League. Like every single one of them except for the 2 players you named.

But you can’t be raving about us using Austin and how beneficial it is when it isn’t beneficial to us at all. Like who have we really developed in Austin? White? All we do is waste a year or 2 years in Lukas case and then we play them 10 minutes a game the next year (or in Lonnies case 10 minutes every 5 games and bench him for Marco) and then we still have the same questions about Lonnie as a player. And then we go into his 3rd year and guess what, we still have the same worries and questions about Lonnie. Can he be assertive? Can he not get lost so easily on defense? Will he show up for more than once every games? Is Pop in his head? And now it’s his 4th year and we don’t know shit about Lonnie and Austin did him zero good for us as an organization.

We were about to do the same shit to Keldon but we got lucky as hell that the bubble came to fruition. Bc Pop benched him the whole year to “teach” him in Austin. Then we were going to waste another fucking year of him coming off the bench. And rinse and repeat the Lonnie problem. It wasn’t Austin that helped Keldon, it was his own demeanor of just playing hard. He was still lost of defense and he still didn’t really know the offense he was just hungry. This isn’t the 29th pick anymore. We have lottery picks now. Makes no sense to just stash a player for 2 years when we suck anyways.

Luka might not even get playing time in his entire contract. He’s not even a stash.

[SAGirl]

https://deanondraft.com/ has a tough grading curve on many of different teams draft choices and it made for an interesting read. For the Spurs he had this to say:


12. Josh Primo:D- San AntonioPrimo is a curious choice at #12– it would seem that the Spurs may be overreacting to the before/after pictures of Giannis (https://i.redd.it/3p9dd7o9mxc11.jpg), and trying to find the guy who makes the next physical transformation. Primo is the youngest prospect in the draft, has a nice frame, interviews well, and has the best odds of having a future growth spurt.
So perhaps it is reasonable to bet on above average development both physically and skillwise in Primo, but that still isn’t enough to take him in the lottery. Even if he has a big 2″ growth spurt to 6’7″ and 6’11”, fills out, and improves his defense (which is currently bad), and athleticism (which is currently mediocre), you don’t get an MVP caliber player, and you may not even get an all-star. He averaged 1.5 assists per 40 vs 2.4 turnovers, which indicates that he needs significant improvement to his ball skills to survive on the perimeter, and it is highly unlikely he is ever a perimeter creator.
And if he doesn’t have a big growth spurt, and stays at his current dimensions, he is just a guy who is too small to guard wings, may be terrible on defense, and lacks the ball skills to justify his defensive versatility.
San Antonio’s 2nd round pick Joe Wieskamp already has ideal wing dimensions, better offensive polish, and is likely the better athlete. Primo’s best case is going to be better than Wieskamp’s, but Wieskamp has an easier path to useful role player and went a full round later.
If you want to bet on a young guy being good, you are much safer taking a guy like Jaden Springer who is already good (https://twitter.com/mikegrib8/status/1421612624995749889?s=20) and only 3 months older instead of doing a bunch of ridiculous extrapolation for Primo. And Springer went an entire 16 slots later.

Read the article for other ratings on other picks. I can’t say I agree with him on everything, but do agree on a lot of them and overall a lot of this is perception. It will be interesting to see where the perception flops and someone overperforms expectations because it happens every draft, plus the inevitable busts.

[Sugus]

And if we used it correctly like other teams then I wouldnt be mad about it. Also Middleton wasn’t even drafted by MIL so that’s a moot point. There’s also lots of lottery picks that make the all star team that haven’t been to the G-League. Like every single one of them except for the 2 players you named.

But you can’t be raving about us using Austin and how beneficial it is when it isn’t beneficial to us at all. Like who have we really developed in Austin? White?

I'll answer your post in two parts for sake of ease.

First, why don't you check out the G-League "facts" page: https://gleague.nba.com/news/alumni-in-nba-2020-21/. I suggest also checking the frontpage, "NBA G League Alumni" part, to see the full player list.

Middleton was just the first one that came to mind, but there's a ton of successful NBA players that started out in or played significant time in the GL; notably, our very own Danny Green had his stint in Austin. The GL's a proven track of development for players of every caliber and, the stats agree, the NBA is seeing a larger and larger GL-vet portion every year. Yes, top lottery picks don't tend to go to the GL, but that's precisely because the NBA team itself will have the same function than the GL itself for the top-talent: feed the ball to him, let him work on his game at the cost of losing games, focus on his development. So it doesn't matter if a top-picking team doesn't make the playoffs or close to it in a lottery talent's rookie season, and the pick gets the same role/attention than a lower-level talent rookie would get in the GL, but wouldn't get on that same team.

The Spurs of late under Pop have been particularly too conservative in regards to their rookie's playtime and role, but that's not a fault of the GL development system, it's coaching related. It doesn't make sense to ditch the GL route, which helps in the previous stage, to change a behavior that's property of the SanAn team. I too hope Pop retires before long, and Becky or whomever comes in and gives the young players the freedom they deserve, but it's a separate discussion - one we'd agree on.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://deanondraft.com/ has a tough grading curve on many of different teams draft choices and it made for an interesting read. For the Spurs he had this to say:


I'm a huge Springer guy but even I have to say the upside of Primo is higher all things considered.
I imagine the Spurs will keep Primo on a minimal weights program to try and maximize that illusive, yet undoubtedly there, height potential.

Rooting for both guys and Kai Jones this draft. Thanks for sharing SAGirl.

When you look at the early 2022 draft from some publications, 6 of the top 8 guys are bigs, 6"10' or taller too.

[Sugus]

But you can’t be raving about us using Austin and how beneficial it is when it isn’t beneficial to us at all. Like who have we really developed in Austin? White? All we do is waste a year or 2 years in Lukas case and then we play them 10 minutes a game the next year (or in Lonnies case 10 minutes every 5 games and bench him for Marco) and then we still have the same questions about Lonnie as a player. And then we go into his 3rd year and guess what, we still have the same worries and questions about Lonnie. Can he be assertive? Can he not get lost so easily on defense? Will he show up for more than once every games? Is Pop in his head? And now it’s his 4th year and we don’t know shit about Lonnie and Austin did him zero good for us as an organization.

We were about to do the same shit to Keldon but we got lucky as hell that the bubble came to fruition. Bc Pop benched him the whole year to “teach” him in Austin. Then we were going to waste another fucking year of him coming off the bench. And rinse and repeat the Lonnie problem. It wasn’t Austin that helped Keldon, it was his own demeanor of just playing hard. He was still lost of defense and he still didn’t really know the offense he was just hungry.

I think the problem here lies in that you expect the GL to be a skill floor-raiser for every player that goes through it, when that's not the role it has. A player that doesn't have the mental game IQ to read defenses well (Lonnie) isn't suddenly going to gain that skill down there. If Luka doesn't have the talent level of shooting needed to stay in the NBA, no amount of games in Austin could help him get there (hell, he could consider a career there, even :lol). Of your examples, maybe Keldon has the higher talent level than either Lonnie or Luka (looking likely right now tbh), and that allows him to "develop more" in Austin and sooner take the "next step" into overmatching the players there, where Lonnie still didn't look convincingly dominating after an entire GL season.

I personally believe Pop fucked with Lonnie way too much for him to be a good example - he's the poster boy for what I told you either. Bad coaching. Inconsistent role. Not getting featured, playmaked for, trusted in. He might never have been destined for NBA stardom as a talent, but that didn't help at all. But anyways - the entire point of the GL is to both smooth over the transition in competition level and physicality for younger players, and also give NBA prospects of any type or game the opportunity to get featured, work on specific things over and over. There is no sense in removing a system that not only makes sense, given rookies tend to be pretty weak physically, but also bears more fruit league-wide with each season that passes. Literally.



This isn’t the 29th pick anymore. We have lottery picks now. Makes no sense to just stash a player for 2 years when we suck anyways.


Luka might not even get playing time in his entire contract. He’s not even a stash.

The drafting spot of any given player is irrelevant to the GL development system. Yes, lottery picks are expected to have a bigger role early on than late firsts, but if you're drafting developmental players, they're just underdeveloped, no matter the pick #. Primo is the perfect example for this.... Lottery pick, and yet will be the youngest player in the entire NBA next season. You don't throw a kid like that into the fire without seeing if he can hang with an in-between league, if you can, by any means. And it'll do him good especially, since they'll probably target his PG, passing and playmaking skills, which he wouldn't be able to get standing in the corner to spot Dejounte or White up.

I don't really see how this model of development can hurt players, tbh. It looks to me like you're not happy about our recent picks reaching the heights you'd expected, and isolating the blame on Austin. I too want to know what we have in our rookies/young players, and I think you're really exaggerating when you say the Spurs will "stash a player for 2 years" when the rookies continually got games with the higher-ups to show their skill and development, and didn't attend a second season of Austin unless they were particularly raw in one area or another. I hope Luka pans out just as much as anyone (well not the haters)... But I wouldn't blame Austin if he doesn't.

[Sugus]

https://deanondraft.com/ has a tough grading curve on many of different teams draft choices and it made for an interesting read. For the Spurs he had this to say:



Read the article for other ratings on other picks. I can’t say I agree with him on everything, but do agree on a lot of them and overall a lot of this is perception. It will be interesting to see where the perception flops and someone overperforms expectations because it happens every draft, plus the inevitable busts.

Lazy analysis TBH, I don't like it one bit.

Doesn't look like the writer researched Primo for more than 2 whole minutes before writing this up, really. No mention whatsoever of his shooting ability - it is literally not addressed, instead his only selling point is being the youngest player in the draft? Looking at just his A/T ratio averages and decide that's a foregone analysis of Cuz's ball-handling skills and makes it "highly unlikely he is ever a perimeter creator", when his role on offense was to be a spot-up shooter and never a creator? Primo was never sold as a PG nor played as one yet it'd seem otherwise from the article. Then lastly, saying that if he doesn't hit a growth spurt, he'll never be good on defense nor have ball skills to compensate? And nothing about shooting, seriously?

And lastly, ending the review implying again the Spurs only took Primo because of his age. No mention either of his rising draft stock previous to the draft as a factor in the Spurs taking him early. Very, very lazy analysis.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Lazy analysis TBH, I don't like it one bit.

Doesn't look like the writer researched Primo for more than 2 whole minutes before writing this up, really. No mention whatsoever of his shooting ability - it is literally not addressed, instead his only selling point is being the youngest player in the draft? Looking at just his A/T ratio averages and decide that's a foregone analysis of Cuz's ball-handling skills and makes it "highly unlikely he is ever a perimeter creator", when his role on offense was to be a spot-up shooter and never a creator? Primo was never sold as a PG nor played as one yet it'd seem otherwise from the article. Then lastly, saying that if he doesn't hit a growth spurt, he'll never be good on defense nor have ball skills to compensate? And nothing about shooting, seriously?

And lastly, ending the review implying again the Spurs only took Primo because of his age. No mention either of his rising draft stock previous to the draft as a factor in the Spurs taking him early. Very, very lazy analysis.

Yeah I agree, especially from someone who tries to zag on draft prospects every year in the hope he lucks into a crazy prediction. It's easier to make an 'analysis' that a 12th pick would fail to become a star, most of them never become one duhh. Some don't even become rotation players.

My personal opinion is that after the top few picks in any draft the talent level becomes pretty similar and what the outcome for these draftees would be depends way more on development than talent disparity.

[objective]

The dean-on-draft blurb was a little light, not really going into why his defense would be bad for instance.

But I'm not bothered by the ignoring or playing down of the shooting. Shooting off the catch that Primo excelled at isn't that big a deal for finding in the league. If it was Wieskamp would have been a first rounder, and Kispert would have been high in the lottery. And guys like Bertans, Joe Harris, Danny Green, Duncan Robinson, Wayne Ellington, Seth Curry, Kyle Korver, Bryn Forbes, all would have been lottery picks instead of second rounders, late firsts, or undrafted. Reddikk or McDermott were the exceptions.

[SAGirl]

Lazy analysis TBH, I don't like it one bit.

Doesn't look like the writer researched Primo for more than 2 whole minutes before writing this up, really. No mention whatsoever of his shooting ability - it is literally not addressed, instead his only selling point is being the youngest player in the draft? Looking at just his A/T ratio averages and decide that's a foregone analysis of Cuz's ball-handling skills and makes it "highly unlikely he is ever a perimeter creator", when his role on offense was to be a spot-up shooter and never a creator? Primo was never sold as a PG nor played as one yet it'd seem otherwise from the article. Then lastly, saying that if he doesn't hit a growth spurt, he'll never be good on defense nor have ball skills to compensate? And nothing about shooting, seriously?

And lastly, ending the review implying again the Spurs only took Primo because of his age. No mention either of his rising draft stock previous to the draft as a factor in the Spurs taking him early. Very, very lazy analysis.
I don’t know if you read the article but he’s a strongly inclined analytics guy, so his perspective is narrow and obviously prone to overlook things he has no personal knowledge of.

The ranking is also related to his prospects draft ranking, so if there were better prospects on the board when a team drafted a guy, he wouldn’t consider that a good pick and that’s why I mentioned he was harsh.

In that sense it’s narrow, but he’s predicted some busts in the past using his analytics models so he offers IMO an interesting perspective. His analysis is also cost/benefit based which I am not used to reading or seeing discussed often. I just found it interesting.

[SAGirl]

The dean-on-draft blurb was a little light, not really going into why his defense would be bad for instance.

But I'm not bothered by the ignoring or playing down of the shooting. Shooting off the catch that Primo excelled at isn't that big a deal for finding in the league. If it was Wieskamp would have been a first rounder, and Kispert would have been high in the lottery. And guys like Bertans, Joe Harris, Danny Green, Duncan Robinson, Wayne Ellington, Seth Curry, Kyle Korver, Bryn Forbes, all would have been lottery picks instead of second rounders, late firsts, or undrafted. Reddikk or McDermott were the exceptions.
The shooting isn’t mentioned because it’s the one thing he does well. I assumed that was the reason, otherwise what is he doing even getting drafted. I think his analytics models showed someone who is not remarkable enough to go that high, and if he watched a short snippet of his, like I did in the first one I found, it just offers a few highlights of a guy shooting off the catch.

I think his opinion was highly influenced too by better prospects being on the board at that point because I noticed that on other teams he ranked poorly.

[Mnky]

Ok thanks. Not my point but it’s already something I don’t care any further. You got triggered by something my friend.

I simply talked basketball on a basketball forum. You're providing personal evaluations. Projecting very hard here and not sure why. Have a good day.

[Mnky]

CSDWXPwD7R1

Kid seems to have the same charming personality as Keldon does

If so, this team will be easy to root for in the near future (assuming he pans out)

I like both of them from what I've seen character wise. I think something that isn't mentioned much is Primo has a little fire in him. Watching his tapes, he has attitude and showmanship towards other basketball players where making plays. His demeanor doesn't say that at all. Definitely reminds me of Keldon in that aspect as well. He wants to compete.

[lebomb]

Im good with the picks. Both will work out fine.


Seriously, a niggra aint jokin. :claw

[Dejounte]

Ever since deanondraft came out as a racist, it’s hard to take him seriously.

[offset formation]

yeah and after Vassell had his best game of the season he got benched for the rest of it. I can see plenty scenarios: Fournier, Micic, Mills. Some kind of vets will be added

I didn't say it would be logical when he plays...

[The Truth #6]

I don’t know if you read the article but he’s a strongly inclined analytics guy, so his perspective is narrow and obviously prone to overlook things he has no personal knowledge of.

The ranking is also related to his prospects draft ranking, so if there were better prospects on the board when a team drafted a guy, he wouldn’t consider that a good pick and that’s why I mentioned he was harsh.
In that sense it’s narrow, but he’s predicted some busts in the past using his analytics models so he offers IMO an interesting perspective. His analysis is also cost/benefit based which I am not used to reading or seeing discussed often. I just found it interesting.

Agreed. He gave Cade a “D” and the Jalen Green pick an “F”. He has his methods, perhaps contrarian, or aggressively unswayed by the media, but seems consistent.

[The Truth #6]

Ever since deanondraft came out as a racist, it’s hard to take him seriously.

Damn. What happened?

[rankingtear]

Ever since deanondraft came out as a racist, it’s hard to take him seriously.

And also this. Stats guys think Sengun is a god called him an mvp point center.

1421166616314880006

[KobesAchilles]

I think the problem here lies in that you expect the GL to be a skill floor-raiser for every player that goes through it, when that's not the role it has. A player that doesn't have the mental game IQ to read defenses well (Lonnie) isn't suddenly going to gain that skill down there. If Luka doesn't have the talent level of shooting needed to stay in the NBA, no amount of games in Austin could help him get there (hell, he could consider a career there, even :lol). Of your examples, maybe Keldon has the higher talent level than either Lonnie or Luka (looking likely right now tbh), and that allows him to "develop more" in Austin and sooner take the "next step" into overmatching the players there, where Lonnie still didn't look convincingly dominating after an entire GL season.

I personally believe Pop fucked with Lonnie way too much for him to be a good example - he's the poster boy for what I told you either. Bad coaching. Inconsistent role. Not getting featured, playmaked for, trusted in. He might never have been destined for NBA stardom as a talent, but that didn't help at all. But anyways - the entire point of the GL is to both smooth over the transition in competition level and physicality for younger players, and also give NBA prospects of any type or game the opportunity to get featured, work on specific things over and over. There is no sense in removing a system that not only makes sense, given rookies tend to be pretty weak physically, but also bears more fruit league-wide with each season that passes. Literally.




The drafting spot of any given player is irrelevant to the GL development system. Yes, lottery picks are expected to have a bigger role early on than late firsts, but if you're drafting developmental players, they're just underdeveloped, no matter the pick #. Primo is the perfect example for this.... Lottery pick, and yet will be the youngest player in the entire NBA next season. You don't throw a kid like that into the fire without seeing if he can hang with an in-between league, if you can, by any means. And it'll do him good especially, since they'll probably target his PG, passing and playmaking skills, which he wouldn't be able to get standing in the corner to spot Dejounte or White up.

I don't really see how this model of development can hurt players, tbh. It looks to me like you're not happy about our recent picks reaching the heights you'd expected, and isolating the blame on Austin. I too want to know what we have in our rookies/young players, and I think you're really exaggerating when you say the Spurs will "stash a player for 2 years" when the rookies continually got games with the higher-ups to show their skill and development, and didn't attend a second season of Austin unless they were particularly raw in one area or another. I hope Luka pans out just as much as anyone (well not the haters)... But I wouldn't blame Austin if he doesn't.

No it’s not that I don’t like how our picks have panned out. It’s more like I believe there is zero point in Austin while Pop is the coach. In theory, the GL could be a good thing for players but the reality is that it isn’t. Bc in the G-League they have consistent roles, they get consistent minutes and consistent coaching. All of these out good things!

However on the real team they get none of these things. They get a role but it’s to just sit in the corner and have no plays drawn up for you, they get inconsistent minutes and are apa ways worried about getting benched for some perceived mistake, and they get inconsistent coaching where the coach does and says shit to them but doesn’t follow through with the vets. Thats a horrible way to teach IMO

So while Austin could be used like you’d said, I believe we might as well just play them bc they have to restart anyways and if they are going to restart then might as well be on the main team. Like everyone assumes that Primo is going to have PG duties at Austin but Pop won’t play him at PG maybe ever so that’s a waste of time then. He’s just going to sit him in the corner offensively anyways so what’s the point of Austin?

That make sense Sugus?

[SAGirl]

For a sunnier outlook, ESPN Jay Bilas:
ESPN basketball analyst Jay Bilas: “I think the more I watched him, the more I really liked him. I’d be surprised if he’s not a first-round selection. Really a talented player, one of those kind of do-it-all guys that can — he has better size than I thought, and he’s versatile on both ends of the floor. Came off the bench, but great effort and can handle it.
“I was very impressed with the way he played at the combine. He’s a good catch-and-shoot guy. I liked him a lot, and with the way he defended, as well, and he showed he could handle it, which I honestly wasn’t sure that he projected necessarily as an initiating or handling guard. He’s got a lot of ability. I was really impressed with him, and just — he can be a sniper shooting the ball.” I

https://alabama.rivals.com/news/alabama-basketball-mock-draft-roundup

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/manhattanonmars/status/1422249972326715393?s=21

[ragas]

I don’t know if you read the article but he’s a strongly inclined analytics guy, so his perspective is narrow and obviously prone to overlook things he has no personal knowledge of.

The ranking is also related to his prospects draft ranking, so if there were better prospects on the board when a team drafted a guy, he wouldn’t consider that a good pick and that’s why I mentioned he was harsh.

In that sense it’s narrow, but he’s predicted some busts in the past using his analytics models so he offers IMO an interesting perspective. His analysis is also cost/benefit based which I am not used to reading or seeing discussed often. I just found it interesting.

The analytics approach is not the best one to evaluate such a young guy. It doesn‘t take into account his low usage. The younger the player the more you have to watch him the get the whole picture.

[The Truth #6]

The analytics approach is not the best one to evaluate such a young guy. It doesn‘t take into account his low usage. The younger the player the more you have to watch him the get the whole picture.

I think analytics can take some of this into account. I think the issue is role vs sample size. Regardless, the FO is prioritizing interview more heavily than any other team, likely after Nephew took a dump on the franchise, and so that won’t be part of analytics. So, I guess it had to have been an incredible interview. Gulp.

The team is trying to play it so safe with character that it pushes them into a different risk with asset management. Hey, I don’t want bad character guys, I’m already growing weary of DJ’s dysregulated tweets and IG posts, but he’s a risk worth taking. Let’s hope Primo develops. He has to achieve something for his leadership to be relevant at all, and he should at least fill a Mills role, I guess.

[Dejounte]

I think analytics can take some of this into account. I think the issue is role vs sample size. Regardless, the FO is prioritizing interview more heavily than any other team, likely after Nephew too a dump on the franchise, and so that won’t be part of analytics. So, I guess it had to have been an incredible interview. Gulp.


in the Primo interview, they said he was asked about playbook and what if scenarios on the court. I think they assessed his basketball IQ that way. maybe they were blown away by his answers.

As far as workouts go, i recall reading that what catapulted Kobe to be a lottery pick was his workouts and how he dismantled other players in 1v1 (or 3v3) settings. Maybe Primo did that great. Don’t hear what I’m saying… I’m not saying he’s Kobe, but just an insight on how a player could impress outside of college output.

[The Truth #6]

in the Primo interview, they said he was asked about playbook and what if scenarios on the court. I think they assessed his basketball IQ that way. maybe they were blown away by his answers.

As far as workouts go, i recall reading that what catapulted Kobe to be a lottery pick was his workouts and how he dismantled other players in 1v1 (or 3v3) settings. Maybe Primo did that great. Don’t hear what I’m saying… I’m not saying he’s Kobe, but just an insight on how a player could impress outside of college output.

Sure. I want him to succeed. And BBIQ is a good point you bring up. I hadn’t thought of that, mostly because Wright keeps mentioning character and that’s one aspect I take him at face value. I think they see a guy that screams winner/no headaches, and I’m ok with that. But I still think it was poor asset management. Houston traded 2 1sts for #16. I get a feeling that deals could have been made, but it didn’t fit their priorities. So I guess I’m questioning what I am guessing to be their priority vs asset management. Hey, I’m happy to be wrong.

[John B]

https://twitter.com/manhattanonmars/status/1422249972326715393?s=21

I’m also warming up on these two, after the initial shock. I literally turned my ST off over the weekend to just let it sink in :lol. I keep on saying, nobody believed Pop traded his favorite kid for this Kawhi. Well, I’m hoping Primo will be the next best thing everybody will be talking about in the next few years, how the Spurs have done it again :lol

Go Spurs Go!

[SAGirl]

The analytics approach is not the best one to evaluate such a young guy. It doesn‘t take into account his low usage. The younger the player the more you have to watch him the get the whole picture.
Good point. I am looking forward to summer league. I couldn't find the combine scrimmages online. I think NBA may have taken the links down so all that's out there is really short snippets of like 30 seconds from that game. Interesting to read all these draft post mortem stuff while we wait for SL and FA.

[SAGirl]

in the Primo interview, they said he was asked about playbook and what if scenarios on the court. I think they assessed his basketball IQ that way. maybe they were blown away by his answers.

As far as workouts go, i recall reading that what catapulted Kobe to be a lottery pick was his workouts and how he dismantled other players in 1v1 (or 3v3) settings. Maybe Primo did that great. Don’t hear what I’m saying… I’m not saying he’s Kobe, but just an insight on how a player could impress outside of college output.
Yeah we never saw the private workouts, and frankly I couldn't even find the combine scrimmages after the draft. Summer league is where I'll get to see him for the first time (other than some college highlights that Wright already said don't reflect his true ability). The rest is entertaining stuff to read about the see how it will age eventually. None of these picks can be graded until like 3 years down the line, in some cases later, but at least we'd know by then the trajectories different guys are taking. This is a subject that's interesting to me on its own.

[cd98]

Right, analytics takes a lot of games to get an accurate picture and he hasn't played enough games to do that. I'm sure that Joshua Primo will be an NBA player as every player that the Spurs have drafted in the 1st round and actually put in their system has made it except Livio Jean Charles and James Anderson. Spurs have had good results in turning first round draft picks into NBA players. Now, how good and will he be worth a lottery pick? Only time will tell, but it appears that the Spurs had him higher than everyone else, including one coach in the SEC who said he wasn't the 20th best player in the SEC.

[slick'81]

The over hype hes getting on here is getting ridiculous

[Dejounte]

Yeah we never saw the private workouts, and frankly I couldn't even find the combine scrimmages after the draft. Summer league is where I'll get to see him for the first time (other than some college highlights that Wright already said don't reflect his true ability). The rest is entertaining stuff to read about the see how it will age eventually. None of these picks can be graded until like 3 years down the line, in some cases later, but at least we'd know by then the trajectories different guys are taking. This is a subject that's interesting to me on its own.

i posted the video to the full scrimmage in this thread. Would dig it up but im too busy right now

[SAGirl]

i posted the video to the full scrimmage in this thread. Would dig it up but im too busy right now
Ok thanks. Will see if I can find it.

[John B]

A Toronto kid and a Demar fan. He said he would love to meet Demar and play with him. Here’s Demar re-signing back :lol

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/manhattanonmars/status/1422249972326715393?s=21

Baby and the Weeze.