If ya’ll thought Philly tried to fleece us…

[8FOR!3]

I saw they wanted Wiseman, Wiggins, and 4 first rounders from GSW.

What do ya’ll think the end game is for Philly? Do they eventually have to come back down to earth and take an offer similar to what we took for Kawhi or do they just keep Simmons? Obviously they’re trading for a different reason than we did with Kawhi but at the same time they know they need to go a different direction

personally I wouldn’t have given up #12 yesterday for him until I saw who we took with #12 lol

[Chinook]

It's weird how formulaic these rejections are. It's clear the Rockets are shopping Simmons and wants to see if anyone will take their high offer. That's fine. It's just weird that it keeps getting leaked. Despite what I've heard some folks say, this doesn't help Houston much at all. One narrow rejected high offer can cause a bidding war. Three or four absurd offers just discourages inquiry.

The Spurs were justified in asking for a bona fide foundational asset for Kawhi. The Kings should've given up their pick. The Sixers should've given up Simmons. People talked themselves into the "value" game too much and ended up passing on a title chance. Simmons is a very good player and worth "coming correct" for. But he's not worth going all in behind, because he's not going to be that guy by himself.

[tbdog]

I think Portland makes the most sense. Mcoullum and covington plus two picks. Then sixers pay for Lowly.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

With Simmons basically willing to just sit out the season at this point, it's going to be interesting to see how much his price comes down. The Philly FO is going to make the same mistake the Spurs made with Kawhi. They might end up having to do a fire sale just to salvage something when all is said and done because they waited too long to pull the trigger on a trade.

The Spurs have some assets to trade now. Chip might be able to fix Simmons' shot. Just sayin'....

[Mr. Body]

I can't think of a bigger mistake the Spurs could make right now than trade for Ben Simmons.

[DeRozan m8]

That prima donna would pout and probably pull a nephew, if he landed in SA

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I can't think of a bigger mistake the Spurs could make right now than trade for Ben Simmons.

Agreed. I just hear the chatter about his stock plummeting and wonder how far it will go. Someone might get a bargain. We’ll see. I’m done with the prima donnas and I’m sure our FO is as well.

[mo7888]

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2947348-new-details-emerge-on-ben-simmons-trade-talks.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

[CGD]

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2947348-new-details-emerge-on-ben-simmons-trade-talks.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

Best bet on Simmons front is to continue to wait out Philly until that situation deteriorates further (ala Kawhi). Unless Simmons does a 180 and decides to mends fences, we're probably looking at the height of Philly's leverage point right now. No need to engage them until Philly's training camp in about to start/has started.

And, if Philly's outlandish offer is meant to anchor their negotiations, Spurs should anchors theirs at Murray, Lonnie, Aminu. Work on narrowing differences from there.

[Chinook]

Unlike the Sixers, I don't think the Spurs have any interest in going into camp with this situation unresolved (from their side at least). They wouldn't make White or Murray especially face the media with so much uncertainty over his life, and I don't think they'd waste the time of vets like Young or Aminu by having them fly down, get set up for camp only to be traded a bit later. Who knows if the Spurs are really interested, but if they are among the most aggressive suitors, then they likely have a point after which they'd just go into the season and revisit things after 12/15, when McDermott/Collins can be part of trades and SA has a better sense of their season's prospects.

[John B]

Unlike the Sixers, I don't think the Spurs have any interest in going into camp with this situation unresolved (from their side at least). They wouldn't make White or Murray especially face the media with so much uncertainty over his life, and I don't think they'd waste the time of vets like Young or Aminu by having them fly down, get set up for camp only to be traded a bit later. Who knows if the Spurs are really interested, but if they are among the most aggressive suitors, then they likely have a point after which they'd just go into the season and revisit things after 12/15, when McDermott/Collins can be part of trades and SA has a better sense of their season's prospects.

Agree. Sixers should also avoid that negative Harden-like situation at the start of a new season. Allow Murray/Lonnie to acclimate with the team. I know Murray would be a beast playing with a chip, and is really a good fit for Sixers. He delivers almost the same assists, defense and now shooting. For Spurs side, Simmons has Superstar ceiling that Murray doesn’t have. If Chip can fix Simmons’ shooting confidence, because his mechanics are not bad but more in his head, to high 30’s in 3pt, high 70’s in FT, continue his dominance in the paint and finding guys, Simmons will be MVP candidate. The mechanics is there. Simmons needs to be the focal point. There’s just so much potential there. Spurs need to iron out the difference.

[HankChinaski]

Simmons need to have wave after wave of CDs playing subliminal messages reinforcing positive thinking.

Maybe after 6 months straight of this he can get his head out his ass.

He is a self entitled narcissist (The Bad Kind that is INSECURE).

Spurs shouldn't even waste time on someone like that.

Guy like that either sorts his anxieties on the court with putting a ball into a basket or he doesn't.

Chip isn't going to fix that unless he gets down on his hands and knees with a few blowees to make him think he is improving.

[TD 21]

The Kings supposedly don't have enough, but the Spurs supposedly might doesn't make sense when they could offer a comparable package.

The Trail Blazers are indirectly in control of this process. They either find a way to make a move of significance by the trade deadline to keep Lillard engaged or they don't, he probably requests a trade and Simmons++ is the obvious one.

It's unclear whether they're fans of his or not, but I get the sense they'd be uninterested in a re-build and he'd fit fairly well with their remaining core. Either way, I can't imagine them preferring the Spurs package.

[Chinook]

Just like with Kawhi, the issue isn't that teams don't "have" enough. Almost every team has enough for any player who's likely to be moved. It's whether they're willing to give up enough. Sacramento doesn't have enough if they're protecting Fox and Haliburton and aren't okay with like seven firsts. Minny basically just traded their non- Edwards/KAT/Russell pieces for Beverly and might literally not be able to make a trade. Toronto has the assets, but they probably don't want him with Siakam, OG and Barnes already at the forwards. My guess is the Spurs are in a similar position, though hopefully they're sane enough to not try to keep both Murray and White while adding Simmons. It'd require them to give up too many assets for diminishing returns. It's very possible that White/Murray is the best player a team is legitimately offering at this point. As Spurs fans, we know all about teams trying to withhold even B-level assets because they've convinced themselves they have leverage. The Sixers were balking at including Dario fucking Saric in a Leonard trade.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

The Sixers were balking at including Dario fucking Saric in a Leonard trade.

Really? That's just a rumor. No way they're that stupid. I think more likely Spurs insisted in including Simmons.

[TD 21]

Just like with Kawhi, the issue isn't that teams don't "have" enough. Almost every team has enough for any player who's likely to be moved. It's whether they're willing to give up enough. Sacramento doesn't have enough if they're protecting Fox and Haliburton and aren't okay with like seven firsts. Minny basically just traded their non- Edwards/KAT/Russell pieces for Beverly and might literally not be able to make a trade. Toronto has the assets, but they probably don't want him with Siakam, OG and Barnes already at the forwards. My guess is the Spurs are in a similar position, though hopefully they're sane enough to not try to keep both Murray and White while adding Simmons. It'd require them to give up too many assets for diminishing returns. It's very possible that White/Murray is the best player a team is legitimately offering at this point. As Spurs fans, we know all about teams trying to withhold even B-level assets because they've convinced themselves they have leverage. The Sixers were balking at including Dario fucking Saric in a Leonard trade.

Not to shoot the messanger, but the Kings would have to know that Haliburton is the only non Fox asset who could conceivably headline their package and they should be okay with including him given the amount of PG depth/ball handling/play making they'd have.

But good post . . . unlike the Harris one, which I was contractually obligated to summarily dismiss. :lmao

[baseline bum]

The Sixers were balking at including Dario fucking Saric in a Leonard trade.


LOL that they wouldn't move Fultz for Leonard. The same Fultz they traded for Jonathan Simmons a few months later. :lol

[Chinook]

Not to shoot the messanger, but the Kings would have to know that Haliburton is the only non Fox asset who could conceivably headline their package and they should be okay with including him given the amount of PG depth/ball handling/play making they'd have

If you ask RGMers, they actually think Fox is more likely to be moved for Simmons than Haliburton. Who knows what their FO thinks, but they could be pushing Barnes/Hield, Mitchell, Bagley and picks. Whether than offer is competitive with what is actually being laid out by interested teams, we don't know.


But good post . . . unlike the Harris one, which I was contractually obligated to summarily dismiss. :lmao

So... If the Sixers are willing to move Harris, they are likely trying to use his salary as ballast to bring in a star or whatever. Even if the Spurs aren't providing an upgrade, they are able to provide the expiring contracts in order to prevent a third team from having to take Harris.

Like say they were going to go all-in on Jamal Murray (not actually the worst idea if they are going to keep Simmons/Embiid). Denver definitely doesn't want to come back in that deal, as most of the motivation for trading Murray would be to free up money for MPJ. So the Spurs being able to turn Harris into expiring contracts has value to both teams, even though the Spurs' offer I gave wouldn't be what Philly wanted one-on-one. Repeat the same idea with Sacramento and Hield/Barnes. There are a few trades where the other team probably wants or will be forced to take Harris on his contract like Portland (McCollum). But insofar as he's moveable, it'll likely be that they sell him or use him as ballast in a huge trade with a club that would probably prefer he not come back in the deal. SA is one of the few teams where Harris on his contract would actually make sense.

[exstatic]

If you ask RGMers, they actually think Fox is more likely to be moved for Simmons than Haliburton. Who knows what their FO thinks, but they could be pushing Barnes/Hield, Mitchell, Bagley and picks. Whether than offer is competitive with what is actually being laid out by interested teams, we don't know.



So... If the Sixers are willing to move Harris, they are likely trying to use his salary as ballast to bring in a star or whatever. Even if the Spurs aren't providing an upgrade, they are able to provide the expiring contracts in order to prevent a third team from having to take Harris.

Like say they were going to go all-in on Jamal Murray (not actually the worst idea if they are going to keep Simmons/Embiid). Denver definitely doesn't want to come back in that deal, as most of the motivation for trading Murray would be to free up money for MPJ. So the Spurs being able to turn Harris into expiring contracts has value to both teams, even though the Spurs' offer I gave wouldn't be what Philly wanted one-on-one. Repeat the same idea with Sacramento and Hield/Barnes. There are a few trades where the other team probably wants or will be forced to take Harris on his contract like Portland (McCollum). But insofar as he's moveable, it'll likely be that they sell him or use him as ballast in a huge trade with a club that would probably prefer he not come back in the deal. SA is one of the few teams where Harris on his contract would actually make sense.

Philly can shove Tobias Harris contract right up their asses. I want no part of year 3, when he’s 32, and making $40M. That’s All NBA money for a guy who is a starter level player, below All Star level. No one wants to keep this guy. He’s been traded 4 times in 10 years, and left teams multiple times on his own.

[TD 21]

With the 76ers exhaust the Lillard situation first caveat . . .

To 76ers: Dragic, Murray, Spurs '22 and '24 1sts (top 1 protected), Bulls '25 1st and 2nd (via Spurs)

To Suns: Young

To Spurs: Simmons, Boucher, Suns '23 1st (top 20 protected)

To Raptors: Poeltl, Saric, Smith, Milton

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/IugSK1ZxfUU

:lmao :lmao

[Chinook]

With the 76ers exhaust the Lillard situation first caveat . . .

To 76ers: Dragic, Murray, Spurs '22 and '24 1sts (top 1 protected), Bulls '25 1st and 2nd (via Spurs)

To Suns: Young

To Spurs: Simmons, Boucher, Suns '23 1st (top 20 protected)

To Raptors: Poeltl, Saric, Smith, Milton

The Suns cannot trade their 2023 first, because their 2022 first is outstanding (to OKC though, not to Brooklyn -- it was part of the Paul trade). It would have to be a protected 2024 first that may not be eligible to convey until 2027 (though might convey as early as 2024 if everything goes as expected).

I'm not as huge of a fan of the Poeltl/Boucher trade as some are, but I guess if you consider Milton as the payment for Dragic, then eating Smith and getting Poeltl for just Boucher is enough for Toronto to eat Saric. I'd still wonder if trading Walker, Vassell or Primo could give the Spurs back some of those picks, like Dragic, Murray, Vassell, the 22 unprotected first and the Suns pick

[TD 21]

The Suns cannot trade their 2023 first, because their 2022 first is outstanding (to OKC though, not to Brooklyn -- it was part of the Paul trade). It would have to be a protected 2024 first that may not be eligible to convey until 2027 (though might convey as early as 2024 if everything goes as expected).

I'm not as huge of a fan of the Poeltl/Boucher trade as some are, but I guess if you consider Milton as the payment for Dragic, then eating Smith and getting Poeltl for just Boucher is enough for Toronto to eat Saric. I'd still wonder if trading Walker, Vassell or Primo could give the Spurs back some of those picks, like Dragic, Murray, Vassell, the 22 unprotected first and the Suns pick

:lmao I mentioned that in the free agency thread, then somehow made the mistake anyway. I don't think that changes anything though.

If the Spurs are as good at drafting and developing as many including presumably they believe they are, then they should be able to withstand the loss of picks (and if the Suns '24 1st conveys, they'd only be without a 1st in '22).

If we're still pretending White is young, Simmons is 2 years younger, so add them to Johnson, Vassell, Walker IV, Samanic, Jones, Primo and Collins and there'd still be a lot of youth in place.

[SAGirl]

The Sixers were balking at including Dario fucking Saric in a Leonard trade.

Really? That's just a rumor. No way they're that stupid. I think more likely Spurs insisted in including Simmons.
Spurs positively insisted on Simmons. They also insisted on Jaylen Brown, when Celtics were offering Marcus Smart and picks.

[rudwick]

We don’t need him.

[Seventyniner]

Spurs positively insisted on Simmons. They also insisted on Jaylen Brown, when Celtics were offering Marcus Smart and picks.

Philly has to be kicking themselves over that one. With Number Two on the Sixers instead of the Raps, and if GS has as bad of injury luck, they probably ring in 2019.

Now they will be lucky to get a Number Two-like deal for Simmons imo because Simmons is a worse player.

[exstatic]

Philly has to be kicking themselves over that one. With Number Two on the Sixers instead of the Raps, and if GS has as bad of injury luck, they probably ring in 2019.

Now they will be lucky to get a Number Two-like deal for Simmons imo because Simmons is a worse player.

Kawhi wouldn’t have been there in 2019. He walked away from a ring team, and would have left Philly, too.

[Chinook]

Kawhi wouldn’t have been there in 2019. He walked away from a ring team, and would have left Philly, too.

You're talking about 19-20; 79er is talking about 18-19.

[John B]

Spurs positively insisted on Simmons. They also insisted on Jaylen Brown, when Celtics were offering Marcus Smart and picks.

There was interest on Simmons then. It's just a matter of time :clap

[exstatic]

You're talking about 19-20; 79er is talking about 18-19.

OK, then he still would have left if they won. History’s on my side. Both Boston and Philly were smart not to bite.

[Dex]

Report: Spurs were open to discussing Dejounte Murray, Lonnie Walker IV in a deal for Sixers' Ben Simmons

https://www.kens5.com/article/sports/nba/spurs/report-spurs-were-open-to-discussing-dejounte-murray-lonnie-walker-iv-in-a-deal-for-sixers-ben-simmons/273-6e53b015-98bf-4c82-b274-b43f09348164

[John B]

OK, then he still would have left if they won. History’s on my side. Both Boston and Philly were smart not to bite.
A one year loaner was a gamble and hard to bite, but it worked out for Ujiri despite losing Kawhi the following year. He helped deliver a championship to Canada. That’s the bottomline. The Sixers haven’t been in the big dance for over 3 decades. The hurdle was the inclusion of Simmons. Knowing what we know now, they would lose Simmons anyway, I think that was a risk they could’ve taken. The rare chance of getting into the Finals. And who knows with what happened to the Dubs? I think that was the point. And you said, “If they won.” Bruh, I wouldn’t mind him leaving. I got my championship.

[Chinook]

OK, then he still would have left if they won. History’s on my side. Both Boston and Philly were smart not to bite.

No they weren't. Toronto definitely feel better about their decision than those teams were. They made an understandable decision at the time, but history says they ended up being wrong.

[John B]

No they weren't. Toronto definitely feel better about their decision than those teams were. They made an understandable decision at the time, but history says they ended up being wrong.

Had Sixers won after over three decades? Heck they would’ve been ecstatic. I don’t blame the Celtics who were just there some years back. But the Sixers? To be able to hoist that Larry O’Brien?

[TD 21]

A one year loaner was a gamble and hard to bite, but it worked out for Ujiri despite losing Kawhi the following year. He helped deliver a championship to Canada. That’s the bottomline. The Sixers haven’t been in the big dance for over 3 decades. The hurdle was the inclusion of Simmons. Knowing what we know now, they would lose Simmons anyway, I think that was a risk they could’ve taken. The rare chance of getting into the Finals. And who knows with what happened to the Dubs? I think that was the point. And you said, “If they won.” Bruh, I wouldn’t mind him leaving. I got my championship.


No they weren't. Toronto definitely feel better about their decision than those teams were. They made an understandable decision at the time, but history says they ended up being wrong.

Still pretending the lucky ass Raptors championship wasn't tainted, that they "gambled", that their trash was comparable to the 76ers and Celtics having to trade Simmons or Brown respectively or that the latters rosters were comparable to the formers, which fit snugly in a myriad of ways (depth, experience, pecking order, urgency, etc.).

[Chinook]

Still pretending the lucky ass Raptors championship wasn't tainted, that they "gambled", that their trash was comparable to the 76ers and Celtics having to trade Simmons or Brown respectively or that the latters rosters were comparable to the formers, which fit snugly in a myriad of ways (depth, experience, pecking order, urgency, etc.).

Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable saying Philly with Leonard instead of Simmons was better than Toronto that year. Philly also had the non-Simmons assets to trade for Butler and Harris that same year Boston had Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, Smart and Horford. You're barking up the wrong tree saying that Toronto was the only team that would've been title favorites after a Leonard trade.

[TD 21]

Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable saying Philly with Leonard instead of Simmons was better than Toronto that year. Philly also had the non-Simmons assets to trade for Butler and Harris that same year Boston had Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, Smart and Horford. You're barking up the wrong tree saying that Toronto was the only team that would've been title favorites after a Leonard trade.

The 76ers would have had to overcome a likely tug-of-war between two disparate personalities as to who the go-to guy was between Embiid and Scumbag, a lack of veteran leadership/experience, no lead play maker or starting caliber PG in general (maybe the Butler and/or Harris assets go for that instead, but we don't know who that would have been), a defensive liability for a fourth best player (Redick) and an overall lack of depth.

Anyway, the point was moreso trading a then 22 year old Simmons for one season of Scumbag would have been extremely tough to do and is not comparable to the Raptors, who didn't have a difficult decision to make.

[james evans]

Report: Spurs were open to discussing Dejounte Murray, Lonnie Walker IV in a deal for Sixers' Ben Simmons

https://www.kens5.com/article/sports/nba/spurs/report-spurs-were-open-to-discussing-dejounte-murray-lonnie-walker-iv-in-a-deal-for-sixers-ben-simmons/273-6e53b015-98bf-4c82-b274-b43f09348164
I wouldn't even trade White for Simmons.. This man can't and won't learn how to shot.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'd trade any combination of Spurs players, bar Keldon perhaps, for Simmons - but not picks. Not sure he'd make the team that much better even if he buys in. Nor do I believe Chip will miraculously make him a good shooter. If there's a chance to roll the dice it's defensible that they do it and see what happens, however, keep those picks in the likely case it doesn't go that well. You trade your picks away for a 3rd star, not for the first one.