The Spurs and the 2021 Offseason: 8 Steps to Success

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antonio-spurs-offseason-successfull-eight-steps/

:ihit

[slick'81]

Stopped reading at spurs should sign lauri:bang

[Dejounte]

From Wright’s words post-draft, doesn’t sound like they would be going for THT. He said they would go for size and shooting.

[Kurik]

All signs pointing to Lauri so far.

[timvp]

Stopped reading at spurs should sign lauri:bangYou didn't even make it to the most controversial part, tbh :lol


From Wright’s words post-draft, doesn’t sound like they would be going for THT. He said they would go for size and shooting.

One would hope Brian Wright would've had the time to at least glance through the CIA handbook by now.

[BackHome]

Barf..........:vomit:

[Dejounte]

I don’t know how useful going CIA during free agency really is. Being secretive doesn’t give you any advantage… does it? If a player wants to come, they’ll come.

[Mr. Body]

Those FAs are all bad ideas.

[objective]

I'm all in on the Collins max

If they match or just give him the same money, then they'll be paying the tax in a couple of years and the Spurs will get their share.

If they get Collins, I think he'll be great at a higher usage and he's young enough for the next great team. Vertical threat, transition threat, stretch 4, smallball 5, fits everything well and could unlock some things with the guards. White was already one of the best pick and roll guys in the league, give him Collins and watch out.

And if he gets popped for eating clen and trenning hard and suspended again then it becomes a tank year and they get a lottery pick

All the other options are crap anyway. Signing Collins to a sheet might be useful if only for temporarily locking up space so the Spurs can't do any 12:01 deals of trash

[Uriel]

Just to be clear, you’re not advocating for signing BOTH Collins and Markannen, right?

[Fusternino]

Collins is basically gone.

I think someone like Bobby Portis would be better as a shooting 4. Also, Oubre is exactly the sort of player you should use an inflated 1 year contract on.

[RC_Drunkford]

Collins is really the only free Agent out there that makes sense. Everybody else is just meh. We definitely need a trade. With players like Siakam, Simmons and Turner being available, the Spurs top priority should be to land one of these guys and offer Collins the max. I wouldn’t be mad if the Spurs make the Lakers sweat by offering THT a contract

[PhantomDashCam]

Is there a concern in offering Colins the Max (tying up funds), that someone swoops in, while awaiting the result, and signs Lauri to an Offer sheet instead?

I'm nonplussed on either tbh (though certainly Collins is the more exciting of the two for having the more well rounded game).

[objective]

The reports on Collins are that he is going to take a 5/120. Maybe that's true, but it's stupid and bad work from his agent if true.

Why agree to 5/120 when you can leverage the Spurs at 4/120?

Anyways, the Hawks forum where that nbaSUPES guy posts had some other alleged insider last night saying that Collins was going to do due diligence and then the Hawks would match, which made supes have a fit and curse Collins for not agreeing to a cheaper deal. Pretty funny. Haven't checked today to see what other stuff is allegedly happening

[objective]

Is there are concern in offering Colins the Max (tying up funds), that someone swoops in, while awaiting the result, and signs Lauri to an Offer sheet instead?

I'm nonplussed on either tbh (though certainly Collins is more exciting for having the more well rounded game).

That might be a concern if Lauri was a great piece.

Besides, teams might wait to see if the Bulls pull his offer. If they are going to sign Lonzo to a sheet, I think that only happens by pulling Lauri's.

Any the Bulls might wait to see if new Orleans pulls the Lonzo sheet to sign a different guard

So if new Orleans loses on Lowry, They might re-sign Ball. Bulls miss Ball, they re-sign Lauri. It's all a mess

[south side spur]

How much would Bobby Portis cost and does he fit? Or would y’all prefer just re-signing Dieng? I’ve always liked Portis’ all around game and energy. I think he would bring some toughness too maybe like a Willis or Mohammed. Not exactly the same styles of play but I don’t think anyone would label Portis as passive.

[bluebellmaniac]

Not a fan of any max contracts at this point.

[eDizzle20]

I tend to agree with that plan of action. I think the most likely outcome is signing Lauri and a sign and trade for DeRozan. I believe Atlanta will match any offer sheet for Collins.

[GAustex]

Hopefully the old dudes are gone.
Success depends on the young ones stepping up big time, a good piece or two added that complements and finding teamwork and pulling together to make something good happen.
It could happen.
Unlikely though.

[NASpurs]

Reality: Run it back and bring the gang back at 12:01.

[Spurs Homer]

Never been impressed with Collins

hope it doesnt happen tbh

[FutureMan]

1. Sign and trades - could be huge for the team
2. trade either Murray or White - Spurs need to make a decision on which one to keep
3. try to sign someone OR take expiring contracts for picks and embrace the tank

*edit* forgot step 4

4. do NOT sign Oubre

[offset formation]

Collins is really the only free Agent out there that makes sense. Everybody else is just meh. We definitely need a trade. With players like Siakam, Simmons and Turner being available, the Spurs top priority should be to land one of these guys and offer Collins the max. I wouldn’t be mad if the Spurs make the Lakers sweat by offering THT a contract

[Mugen]

Two things that would make the offseason a success (even after f'n up the draft):

1. The old man calling it quits after the olympics.
2. Derozan GTFOff the team.

Unfortunately, I doubt the ego maniac walks away this summer. Which is a bummer because the OP knows full well that Sloanavich coming back makes it impossible to "Embrace the Rebuild"

I think #2 will happen but I wouldn't put it past this dumbass GM to bring Derozan back on some stupid ass contract. This is a bottom 3 FO in the league and I fully expect them to prove it over these next several days :lol

[DPG21920]

timvp we must be in a boy band because we are clearly N’Sync

Exactly my thoughts and glad we are on the same page. I’ve been leading the Twitter crusade on nearly all of these items as well. If it’s obvious to you and I let’s hope it is to the FO.

But I’m worried. I don’t trust them to see things this obviously

[gambit1990]

spurs are after raymond felton.

[timvp]

I don’t know how useful going CIA during free agency really is. Being secretive doesn’t give you any advantage… does it? If a player wants to come, they’ll come.

If the Spurs are interested in THT, they'd want that to be a secret until the last possible moment. The less time the Lakers have to figure out the short-term and long-term math of how to match a big offer sheet without entering luxury tax hell, the better.


Just to be clear, you’re not advocating for signing BOTH Collins and Markannen, right?

Yeah, it's either Collins or Markannen. Markannen and THT might work though, depending on how the numbers come in.

[timvp]

How much would Bobby Portis cost and does he fit? Or would y’all prefer just re-signing Dieng?

I'll list my thoughts on other free agents that didn't make the article:

Bobby Portis - I've been a fan for a while but I wouldn't target him this summer. He's too much of a buy-high ... and the Spurs wouldn't sign a guy who punched a teammate in the face and broke his jaw right now anyways :lol

Dieng - It's difficult to say what his market will be but using leftover cash on him in Step 8 would be fine. For example, a one-year, $5-8M is okay. For me to get behind a multi-year deal, it'd have to be small. Even $5M a year is too much even if his outside shooting would help.

Keita Bates-Diop - Giving him the Drew Eubanks special (three years near the minimum with most of it unguaranteed) would be ideal. For an 11th man with enough upside that he might become an 9th man, that would be a good contract. I wouldn't go much higher than that, though.

Gary Trent Jr - His shooting would be helpful ... but not at the $16M per year he's bound to get. He doesn't do anything else well enough outside of shooting to invest highly in, IMO.

Kendrick Nunn, Bryn Forbes, Terence Davis - Eh, no thx.

More players who I'd be happy with on one year deals: DANNY GREEN, Exum, Korkmaz, JaMychal Green.

Can't think of any others off the top of my head...


Edit: Oh yeah, no to Zach Collins. He wasn't good before the injuries. Now his career is probably over. I don't even know why he makes lists of players the Spurs will be interested in. He's not worth more than an unguaranteed minimum deal at this point.

[timvp]

Worth noting, these days teams only have two days to match on a restricted free agent. But the clock starts ticking at the end of the moratorium, which is Friday at 12:01AM.

So, if the Spurs agree to give a free agent an offer sheet tomorrow afternoon, that money will be locked up for a little less than a week. Not terrible but not exactly ideal. Then again, the Spurs have so much cap room that it shouldn't stop them from being able to maneuver -- even if a big chunk is frozen.

[JeffDuncan]

Why would a rebuilding team want to max Collins? Or anybody? What’s the point?

The Spurs have no star like Young to team Collins with. If you max Collins it implies Collins, himself, is the star. He may be a good player but he isn’t that good. He would not be our star, to lead us to the finals. So again, what’s the point?

Also, if you overpay a player how will you get rid of him if he doesn’t work out? Teams won’t be eager to take a contract that’s an obvious overpay.

I give you our own example, DDR. He was a flop as our star — two losing seasons in a row — and his contract was a gross overpay. And even after that contract has expired we’re STILL having trouble getting rid of him. A cautionary tale. We need to learn from it.

We don’t need any high dollar contracts on a team that MIGHT have a .500 record and that MIGHT make the playoffs. Maybe.

As it stands, the Spurs need useful players, on reasonable contracts, that should be tradeable pretty easily, as the need arises. Anything more would be a waste of money, and we’d only be setting ourselves up for future problems (like trying to get rid of DDR.)

The Spurs are treading water until they find their star. Save the max contract idea for the star, and players to team with him.

[lmbebo]

Worth noting, these days teams only have two days to match on a restricted free agent. But the clock starts ticking at the end of the moratorium, which is Friday at 12:01AM.

So, if the Spurs agree to give a free agent an offer sheet tomorrow afternoon, that money will be locked up for a little less than a week. Not terrible but not exactly ideal. Then again, the Spurs have so much cap room that it shouldn't stop them from being able to maneuver -- even if a big chunk is frozen.

Might explain a tweet I saw...

[Degoat]

Worth noting, these days teams only have two days to match on a restricted free agent. But the clock starts ticking at the end of the moratorium, which is Friday at 12:01AM.

So, if the Spurs agree to give a free agent an offer sheet tomorrow afternoon, that money will be locked up for a little less than a week. Not terrible but not exactly ideal. Then again, the Spurs have so much cap room that it shouldn't stop them from being able to maneuver -- even if a big chunk is frozen.

Wow they need to change that lol having to wait until the moratorium ends before knowing if that space will be used or not because of a restricted free agent offer is made is crazy to me

[timvp]

Why would a rebuilding team want to max Collins? Or anybody? What’s the point?

The Spurs have no star like Young to team Collins with. If you max Collins it implies Collins, himself, is the star. He may be a good player but he isn’t that good. He would not be our star, to lead us to the finals. So again, what’s the point?

Fair questions. My rebuttals:

1) You can't pause your franchise while waiting for a star because he could pop up tomorrow or not for 20 years. You need to keep trying to acquire high-end talent. Doing so actually helps your chances of getting a star, I'd argue. (Stars want to play with good players, good players can be traded for stars in the right circumstances, etc.)

2) Collins is young enough and has enough upside that there's a pretty good shot he'll be worth his contract. It's a gamble worth taking, IMO. Non-injury downsides are somewhat tame.

3) The Spurs are in a unique position in that they have a lot of cap space in a year when not many teams do. They have to try to take advantage of it. They can try to roll the cap space forward but there will come a time when it disappears as young players (KJ, possible Lonnie, etc.) eat into it. This cap space was only created because the Spurs are transitioning between cores and is fleeting.

[EricB]

Don’t agree on Zach Collins, agree on maxing John literally minute 1.

[JeffDuncan]

How much would Bobby Portis cost and does he fit? ...


Portis’ last contract put his price at $3.8 M. He had a contract, one year, of 15 M before he slugged Mirotic. Don’t know what he’s worth in free agency now. I think that the 15 M which Portis once got is still his limit now, in a sane world. If somebody were interested they might try 7.6 M to see the reaction, and go from there.

Portis was listed at PF throughout his career, until the Bucks listed him at C last season. He’d fit, on the Spurs, since both those positions need shoring up.

The Mirotic incident was in October 2017, which will be four years ago when the season starts. Ancient history. All he had last season with the Bucks was four technical fouls. The Spurs should have good communication with Coach Bud to check how Portis behaves now, in practice and the locker room, if they’re interested.

[tbdog]

I'm not a fan of Collins on a max. Or portz in a trade. It's just not ideal to have a max player who is likely a third wheel option like Tobias Harris. But as others have said, your betting on Collins age and more so that on his third or fourth year of the deal, the NBA salary cap goes up. I might be wise to front load it so your betting on his improvements and the cap going up.

Lauri, it makes sense fit wise. A poison contact like 2 for 40 Mil might be a good gamble. He fits what the team needs to improve.

Another target is Buddy Hield. He could be had for Walker and Spurs could still get a Kings first pick. Kings would want out of the contract.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm fine with overpaying for Collins. His max is going to start at about $28 mil, it's not like it'll one of those 40+ mil albatross contracts. Better to swing and hope on someone's upside, than treading water when you have a lot of cap space or trying to moneyball. Don't sign players to contracts with the intent to trade them down the line, it rarely works. Collins's contract would be only for 3+1 years anyway and with the Spurs cap sheet looking clean right now it won't stop them from extending the players they want to keep. Low risk unless he gets a bad injury. That said, I doubt Spurs would be the only team offering him the max even if Atlanta are not prepared to match. Dallas might also do it and he'd be crazy not to go there. I still think Atlanta would match though. They can afford to keep him and max out Young as well.

Markkanen... I don't know, same logic I guess. Bet on his upside, or bet on his fit allowing other players to grow. Worst case they'd be headed to the lottery, which should be expected anyway, even with Collins imo.

THT I don't see the fit but it'd be fun just to dick the Lakers.

I'm not a fan of taking on bad contracts for late picks. Spurs have never operated this way and I doubt they'd start doing it now. Why take on $20 mil for Favors for a late pick, instead of offering a similar $10 mil per to someone like Hart, Trent Jr, Boucher, etc. who are proven NBA players. A late first isn't that.

It'll also be interesting if they offer Lonnie an extension or wait until he becomes a RFA. Even if they lowball him and he doesn't sign it, it'd be telling.

[Chinook]

I'm not a fan of using an age cut-off to signing a player. You don't win by having a bunch of guys the same age. Obviously there's a huge difference between Tim and Kawhi, but Duncan is six years older than Parker. I don't think there's anything wrong with making investments in 30ish guys if they add to the overall structure of the team. I certainly can't square this idea of forcing the team to be young with the assumption that Primo is going to go to Austin. I think the Spurs should really consider if they think Eubanks is a rotational center. If they don't think so, they should re-up Dieng to a multi-year deal, and stop splitting their minutes. Porter's age doesn't bother me either. If he's a starting PF in today's league, they should put him on their list. The Spurs should try to be a functional team, and especially when it comes to supporting players, vets are a big part of that. The team should definitely thin out their young players to make room for those vets. They should keep all of those players and then mess with the minutes or touches.

The team's broad goal should be to create a good developmental environment for their young players. They seem to think, and I agree, that such an environment balances out a competitive outlook with chances to give young players roles of improve their skills. In my mind, the only way you balance that correctly is by identifying a small group of top prospects and converting the rest into future value. That is to say, I see multiple spots in the rotation where I'm willing to bring in a vet (even one older than 27) to fill the spot unless the young players have it locked down. In particular, there are large holes at backup PG (assuming White and Murray still both start or one is traded) and C in addition to starting PF. I want the Spurs to acquire vets for all three spots. That leaves seven rotation spots for younger guys. The rotation would be thus:

Murray, Vet, Jones
White, Walker, Primo
Johnson, Vassell, KBD, Wieskamp, (Jeffries)
Vet, Samanic
Poeltl, Vet, Eubanks

If someone like Samanic shows he's a starting PF, then you start him. But he should be starting over a rotation-caliber PF, not a rookie or min guy. I want Jones to get the backup PG spot by beating out a guy like Neto, if not Payne. If that makes those guys want to move on, you can trade them then. But the Spurs owe it to themselves to get good players on good contract, not the best players who'll take one-year deals.

EDIT: I guess no one saw Vassell wasn't on the list? Okay, well he basically kicks Jeffries off the team then. I wouldn't support not signing one of those three vets to keep him on. If anything it highlights the point I was trying to make.

[Chinook]

It'll also be interesting if they offer Lonnie an extension or wait until he becomes a RFA. Even if they lowball him and he doesn't sign it, it'd be telling.

Unlike White last year, extending Walker is a gamble that's more likely to pay off than not. That's because his projected cap hold is higher than White's was, while his play warrants a smaller contract. If Walker gets anything less than $59M/4 or $43M/3, then extending him actually adds money to the projected cap space versus keeping his hold on the books. Personally, I don't think Walker can expect more than Kuzma's extension ($39M/3). So if they want to keep him, they should be able to. Again, though, While I focus mainly on Murray, Walker's also a guy who the Spurs have to decide on. From my perspective, he's still among the top two or three highest ceilings on the team and should be a featured player. But if the Spurs feel about him the way they treat him, they should trade him. He's just taking up minutes Vassell and Primo need if they aren't going to actually play him.

[objective]

I think people are getting too hung up on the 'max' phrase. Not every max is created equal because of the differences in years of experience.

Years 0-6 are 25% of the cap, years 7-9 are 30%, and 10+ is 35%.

Collins would be starting at age 24 (birthday in September). His first year would be 28.1 or so and the final year 4 (if he opted in provided it was a 3+1) would be about 32.3. Tobias Harris next year will be making 35.99 million at age 29.

So Harris will be making about 8 million more next year even if the Spurs gave Collins the most they could absolutely give.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

My shock scenario would be paying Fournier something like 4/80 :lol and play him at SF.

[Shohoku High]

I think people are getting too hung up on the 'max' phrase. Not every max is created equal because of the differences in years of experience.

Years 0-6 are 25% of the cap, years 7-9 are 30%, and 10+ is 35%.

Collins would be starting at age 24 (birthday in September). His first year would be 28.1 or so and the final year 4 (if he opted in provided it was a 3+1) would be about 32.3. Tobias Harris next year will be making 35.99 million at age 29.

So Harris will be making about 8 million more next year even if the Spurs gave Collins the most they could absolutely give.

It's not about giving max, it's about the salary you give him.
I like Collins and would give him a fair contract but that's unlikely since Atlanta would match. He's an above average starter player.
So if you set the bar at Collins and another Spurs player perform equally or better than Collins, their agent will demand similar contract.

[Teamduncan21]

It's not about giving max, it's about the salary you give him.
I like Collins and would give him a fair contract but that's unlikely since Atlanta would match. He's an above average starter player.
So if you set the bar at Collins and another Spurs player perform equally or better than Collins, their agent will demand similar contract.

you need to spend the cap space anyway, so its either going to collins or someone else. the issue with this FA class is somneone else is pretty bad (ie lauri, derozan)

[99 Problems]

:lobt: It’s Happening, albeit slowly……

[Rummpd]

Fire the FO and retire the already retired in place HC and start over.

[Chomag]

The only way the Spurs can move forward and become successful again is for the FO to get creative, and that's something I don't believe this current FO is capable of.

They seem stuck in their old ways at doing things when they had the big 3 to build around in which non of that will work under the current circumstances.

Until we get a fresh new FO, or the current ones somehow surprise us I believe that we are just going to be stuck in the mud.

[TheChillFactor]

thank you LJ

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

A topic for discussion : if the Spurs hypothetically manage to land John Collins, how would you use the rest of the cap space and the room exception?

[John B]

Thanks Timvp. Agree with offering Collins the max contract. Not necessarily agree with limiting the age to 27. I mean CP3 was just in the Finals, so it depends. PATFO should do ALL diligence to land a caliber player however, S&T included, and the probability of parting with some guys, like Murray, Poeltl. I rather keep White as the main PG.

[mo7888]

A topic for discussion : if the Spurs hypothetically manage to land John Collins, how would you use the rest of the cap space and the room exception?

My 2 cents- if we landed Collins, to me, that signals a win now approach (or at least a compete now approach). So I'd want to use my remaining space and even white or DJ + maybe future/other assets to to go after another high level starter at the 2 or 3 spot. I'm not sure who that would be for sure...maybe McCollum or someone on that level..

[tbdog]

My 2 cents- if we landed Collins, to me, that signals a win now approach (or at least a compete now approach). So I'd want to use my remaining space and even white or DJ + maybe future/other assets to to go after another high level starter at the 2 or 3 spot. I'm not sure who that would be for sure...maybe McCollum or someone on that level..

Probably a vet shooter like McDermott, resign Dieng. But I'm also in favour bring DDR back with Collins starting. But money would be tight.

[Brazil]

My shock scenario would be paying Fournier something like 4/80 :lol and play him at SF.


Dude did a show off with FNT against USA.. I hope this is not going to give ideas to Pop...

[Dex]

I really hope we can hold on to Dieng at a reasonable price. I know that would be breaking the "age rule", but he would fill a vital role as a stretch forward and could provide some veteran leadership to a young rebuilding team without putting us in position to lose too many lottery balls.

Also, he surprised everybody by choosing the Spurs when he was bought out, and I'd like that faith to be rewarded...I doubt he wanted to come along for a 1 month ride on the bench.

[DPG21920]

A topic for discussion : if the Spurs hypothetically manage to land John Collins, how would you use the rest of the cap space and the room exception?

That’s a great question and by far the scenario I have thought most about. If SA gets Collins:

I would love to see them S&T DDR. I know him walking is most important but if they secure Collins, they will still have lots of cap space and I would like to see them get a player at the wing/or big + pick. You get Collins and that’s most important then give yourself the easiest way to more assets by doing a S&T vs trading a guard whose value isn’t higher yet.

Then as the roles expand this season you can trade white or Murray or Lonnie once they get value up.

One of the main reasons I want to see this is that I want to see legit signs of creativity and a plan from the FO and doing a S&T is a nice baby step vs having to trade the guards at pennies on the dollar due to circumstance.

But if they get Collins basically I want to see trades for assets: S&T first, absorbing a bad deal 2nd or trading logjams 3rd

[Mugen]

Nothing like embracing a rebuild with a 72 yo coach that still looks over to the bench trying to sub Manu in :lol

Y'all are in for a world of hurt this Free Agency period tbh :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

That’s a great question and by far the scenario I have thought most about. If SA gets Collins:

I would love to see them S&T DDR. I know him walking is most important but if they secure Collins, they will still have lots of cap space and I would like to see them get a player at the wing/or big + pick. You get Collins and that’s most important then give yourself the easiest way to more assets by doing a S&T vs trading a guard whose value isn’t higher yet.

Then as the roles expand this season you can trade white or Murray or Lonnie once they get value up.

One of the main reasons I want to see this is that I want to see legit signs of creativity and a plan from the FO and doing a S&T is a nice baby step vs having to trade the guards at pennies on the dollar due to circumstance.

But if they get Collins basically I want to see trades for assets: S&T first, absorbing a bad deal 2nd or trading logjams 3rd

Unless they do some black magic with the moratorium dates, they wouldn't be able to offer the max to Collins while keeping DDR's cap hold ($40 mil) in order to do a sign and trade, they'd have to renounce him.

[Spursfanfromafar]

https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antonio-spurs-offseason-successfull-eight-steps/

:ihit

Good article. One guy who could be an one year rental bet is Bobby Portis if neither Markannen or John Collins pan out for some reason.

But that said, John Collins is a must have. He fits the Spurs timeline, need and there can be a mutual getting together of aims.
Another backup option for shooting could be Svi Mikhailiuk if Patty Mills is also leaving.

[DPG21920]

Unless they do some black magic with the moratorium dates, they wouldn't be able to offer the max to Collins while keeping DDR's cap hold ($40 mil) in order to do a sign and trade, they'd have to renounce him.

True; was thinking it would be an order of operations thing; tell Collins he will get full max. Him say he wants the Spurs (but without signing formal offer), execute S&T then present offer

Definitely requires trust from Collins but Sa most trustworthy team in NBA

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

True; was thinking it would be an order of operations thing; tell Collins he will get full max. Him say he wants the Spurs (but without signing formal offer), execute S&T then present offer

Definitely requires trust from Collins but Sa most trustworthy team in NBA

Yeah it'd be difficult but doable if DDR takes around $20 mil per. S&T him , get Dragic + minor asset back, renounce everyone else and they might just squeeze a Collins max in.

[DPG21920]

Yeah it'd be difficult but doable if DDR takes around $20 mil per. S&T him , get Dragic + minor asset back, renounce everyone else and they might just squeeze a Collins max in.

And based on all this mle for ddr talk, 18-20M per is way more palatable for him one would think. Even if it’s not mia, if he wants LA/Cali, Clippers and GS are in Lakers for Westbrook type territory too. They should be options even though we haven’t heard anything on that front.

Ideally, there’s truth to Washington etc. there are other teams that make a S&T way easier IF ddr isn’t set on MIA or LA

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

And based on all this mle for ddr talk, 18-20M per is way more palatable for him one would think. Even if it’s not mia, if he wants LA/Cali, Clippers and GS are in Lakers for Westbrook type territory too. They should be options even though we haven’t heard anything on that front.

Ideally, there’s truth to Washington etc. there are other teams that make a S&T way easier IF ddr isn’t set on MIA or LA

I'm not sure I'd want anything from Washington or Clippers in a S&T. Rather use the cap space than taking back shitty contracts just for the sake of saying they haven't lost DDR for nothing. Dragic I'd only want because Dallas are bound to burn a 1st rounder for him at some point :lol

[DPG21920]

I'm not sure I'd want anything from Washington or Clippers in a S&T. Rather use the cap space than taking back shitty contracts just for the sake of saying they haven't lost DDR for nothing. Dragic I'd only want because Dallas are bound to burn a 1st rounder for him at some point :lol

I guess that’s where many vs me diverge. There’s really not anyone in FA I want other than Collins. I’d rather get back a low contract like Kuzma (no different than say wasting $ on Oubre) and at least get a pick too.

Or at least get Kuminga and/or Wiseman from GS etc…there’s no one after Collins I’d want SA to give more than a one year deal to in the scenario we get Collins.

If we whiff on Collins then getting picks is even more important imo since there is no one else they should be giving big $ too..

So it’s not at all just for sake of getting something imo; it’s about the situation with no FA worth the money and getting a pick(s) for that $ instead

[DPG21920]

Something like Derozan + Murray for Wiggins + Wiseman + Kuminga even though Gs has shown no inclination to doing anything like that. They seem to want to hedge on winning now vs youth

Edit: yes I understand hard cap is an issue for GS. Not sure if there’s a way to make it work (haven’t done math) but just spit balling here

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Pop just read this and is now busy structuring FIBA Patty's three year $51MM contract.

[exstatic]

My 2 cents- if we landed Collins, to me, that signals a win now approach (or at least a compete now approach). So I'd want to use my remaining space and even white or DJ + maybe future/other assets to to go after another high level starter at the 2 or 3 spot. I'm not sure who that would be for sure...maybe McCollum or someone on that level..
I don’t think it would take too much to land Harrison Barnes. They’re motivated to move him. He’s a 3-4, but do we really need more 2-3s?

[Spursfanfromafar]

John Hollinger reports that the only guy he is hearing about the Spurs - ..."Daniel Theis". Wow :)

[Kurik]

John Hollinger reports that the only guy he is hearing about the Spurs - ..."Daniel Theis". Wow :)

The Spurs are connected to everybody and nobody at the same time. They are everywhere and nowhere.

[The Truth #6]

Guaranteed to be no one on this list, though maybe THT because he’s short and can’t shoot threes. Joking?

I still like Exstatic’s Barnes idea, but that takes maneuvering.

I think resigning Dieng is a much higher probability than people think.

[rjv]

From Wright’s words post-draft, doesn’t sound like they would be going for THT. He said they would go for size and shooting.

missed that, but that sounds like lauri to me.

[RC_Drunkford]

That’s a great question and by far the scenario I have thought most about. If SA gets Collins:

I would love to see them S&T DDR. I know him walking is most important but if they secure Collins, they will still have lots of cap space and I would like to see them get a player at the wing/or big + pick. You get Collins and that’s most important then give yourself the easiest way to more assets by doing a S&T vs trading a guard whose value isn’t higher yet.

Then as the roles expand this season you can trade white or Murray or Lonnie once they get value up.

One of the main reasons I want to see this is that I want to see legit signs of creativity and a plan from the FO and doing a S&T is a nice baby step vs having to trade the guards at pennies on the dollar due to circumstance.

But if they get Collins basically I want to see trades for assets: S&T first, absorbing a bad deal 2nd or trading logjams 3rd

that's what I been saying. If they can get Collins and then do a trade for a Myles Turner for example that team would look pretty good. Of course I don't expect none of that shit to happen

[R. DeMurre]

John Hollinger reports that the only guy he is hearing about the Spurs - ..."Daniel Theis". Wow :)

Something screwy was going on with centers & Chicago last year: Daniel Gafford and Luke Kornet flourished pretty dramatically after leaving, and Theis shot the worst 3pt% and eFG% of his career after arriving there, along with posting the worst metrics of his 4 year career.

[exstatic]

that's what I been saying. If they can get Collins and then do a trade for a Myles Turner for example that team would look pretty good. Of course I don't expect none of that shit to happen

You can’t get Collins without renouncing DDR and his $40M cap hold. Once you do that, you can’t S$T him.

[mo7888]

I don’t think it would take too much to land Harrison Barnes. They’re motivated to move him. He’s a 3-4, but do we really need more 2-3s?

When I say get a high lever 2 or 3 I'm assuming we send some of our current 2's or 3's out in the deal so we aren't overcrowded.

[RC_Drunkford]

You can’t get Collins without renouncing DDR and his $40M cap hold. Once you do that, you can’t S$T him.

I know that. But you can sign and trade him and then throw some money at Collins. Just cause I mentioned it in the wrong order doesn't mean it wouldn't work. The Spurs should have a sign-and-trade deal in place already if they are smart. Of course I assume they don't

[MoSpur02]

What’s up timvp. Thanks for the write up. I feel the biggest needs are at the PF and SF position. Not many options out there for the SF position. Read somewhere that the Sixers are shopping Harris. I hate his contract, but I think his game fits here. Your thoughts? Maybe a S&T for DeRozan or is that too desperate as far as using that much money on him for a couple of years?

[jeebus]

What's really going to happen: resign the old fucks and get more "wily old vets" to make a run at the 10 seed for the play in.

[Chinook]

To be clear, the Spurs can renounce DMDR and S&T him. The hold is for a team to use the Bird exception to re-sign a player that season only and doesn't affect anything else when it comes to tenure (as we should've learned when SA renounced Manu and then signed him to a huge deal the next year because they still had full Bird rights). Obviously that would limit how much money they could give DeMar to their available cap space, but they can still do both.

[MultiTroll]

Is this similar to the 12 steps program?

[DPG21920]

To be clear, the Spurs can renounce DMDR and S&T him. The hold is for a team to use the Bird exception to re-sign a player that season only and doesn't affect anything else when it comes to tenure (as we should've learned when SA renounced Manu and then signed him to a huge deal the next year because they still had full Bird rights). Obviously that would limit how much money they could give DeMar to their available cap space, but they can still do both.

Right - I knew I was missing something

[ragas]

Omg. OP wanted Poeltl for 5 mill per year and now is happy with 15-17 Mill for Markkanen? I don‘t get it. He can‘t do anything but shoot. Better resign Dieng or throw the money at Collins.

[SAGirl]

John Hollinger reports that the only guy he is hearing about the Spurs - ..."Daniel Theis". Wow :)
All that signals is that the rumors about Oubre, Markannen and even Collins (to leverage ATL), all came from their agents.

From the Spurs not a peep other than the trade efforts with Derozan that haven't gained traction anywhere and evaporated when Demar realized he's going to have to take a paycut to go to a playoff team.

[slick'81]

Step1-dont resign derozan
step2- get something for derozan (assuming somebody actually offers him a decent contract)
step3- dont resign derozan

[KingKev]

The reports on Collins are that he is going to take a 5/120. Maybe that's true, but it's stupid and bad work from his agent if true.

Why agree to 5/120 when you can leverage the Spurs at 4/120?

Anyways, the Hawks forum where that nbaSUPES guy posts had some other alleged insider last night saying that Collins was going to do due diligence and then the Hawks would match, which made supes have a fit and curse Collins for not agreeing to a cheaper deal. Pretty funny. Haven't checked today to see what other stuff is allegedly happening

Because coach Pop tbh.

[KingKev]

Is this similar to the 12 steps program?

hahaha post of the year.

[Fusternino]

I still think poaching Batum makes sense than offering Oubre anything substantial.

[KingKev]

My shock scenario would be paying Fournier something like 4/80 :lol and play him at SF.

This will not be shocking at all. Probably the plan since he torched team USA. This off season will be a win if we do very little if anything outside of taking a chance on JC. When we inevitably strike out on JC short term vet deals are my next best hope.

not exactly something that needs to be decided now but will be interesting to see if we go after another undersized guard and what that means for Walker’s future.

[timvp]

Is this similar to the 12 steps program?

Similar, yeah. If the Spurs relapse and give Patty another fitty mil, it might be time for inpatient rehab, tbh.

[timvp]

Is this similar to the 12 steps program?

Similar, yeah. If the Spurs relapse and give Patty another fitty mil, it might be time for inpatient rehab, tbh.

[The Truth #6]

Resign Dieng.
DDR and Gay walk.
Haggle with Mills.
Explore a European born player we aren't thinking of.

Based on character, that leads to resigning Mills and Dieng. It should lead to trading Dejounte, but I think there are allowances here and there for whatever the priorities are now, and so that isn't likely. But packaging DDR and Dejounte in a trade would be amazing to consider but of course not happening.

[The Truth #6]

Weird duplicate. I blame society.

[KingKev]

What's really going to happen: resign the old fucks and get more "wily old vets" to make a run at the 10 seed for the play in.

Followed by a mid season buyout “for the culture”

[Ocotillo]

I know if Derozz walks and signs somewhere else without us getting anything in return, this place will melt down. OP was correct in his write up (nicely done by the way and thanks for your site), it is ok for him to leave without us getting something traded to us.

Keep in mind, him leaving means we do get something, cap space. I would rather have cap space than bad contracts.

[daslicer]

I know if Derozz walks and signs somewhere else without us getting anything in return, this place will melt down. OP was correct in his write up (nicely done by the way and thanks for your site), it is ok for him to leave without us getting something traded to us.

Keep in mind, him leaving means we do get something, cap space. I would rather have cap space than bad contracts.

Actually you are wrong. This place only melts down if the Spurs re-sign Derozan. I think people would be happy even if he walks for nothing.

[slick'81]

I know if Derozz walks and signs somewhere else without us getting anything in return, this place will melt down. OP was correct in his write up (nicely done by the way and thanks for your site), it is ok for him to leave without us getting something traded to us.

Keep in mind, him leaving means we do get something, cap space. I would rather have cap space than bad contracts.


Dont care as lng as he is gone period. It is what it is at this point

[cjw]

I know if Derozz walks and signs somewhere else without us getting anything in return, this place will melt down. OP was correct in his write up (nicely done by the way and thanks for your site), it is ok for him to leave without us getting something traded to us.

Keep in mind, him leaving means we do get something, cap space. I would rather have cap space than bad contracts.

People keep forgetting that we likely have to take back a sizeable contract to get assets in a S&T!

[TD 21]

I don't get arbitrarily drawing the line at 28 and up being too old. Other than The Process, re-building teams like to have a few veterans to compliment their youth.

Unfortunately, Burks (Knicks), Porter Jr. (Nets) and Dieng (if Spurs don't outbid Suns, probably the latter) are out.

Collins, even if it's a lost cause, no reason to not put the Hawks feet to the fire. Many teams have poached the Spurs over the years, the least they could do is attempt to do it back; especially for a player who'd make sense.

[BackHome]

8 steps
1. Tank
2.Tank
3. Tank

You get the picture - 2022 Chet number 1 draft pick.

[cjw]

8 steps
1. Tank
2.Tank
3. Tank

You get the picture - 2022 Chet number 1 draft pick.

Without some luck, afraid they’ve drafted to well to get to the #1 pick next yeae

[TheChillFactor]

just get him the fuck out of here already. give him some proactive on the way out.

[Robz4000]

:lol this list crashed and burned pretty quickly

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

So, the Spurs actually checked a couple of things off this list. Failed at some others. Maybe 50% or so....not a passing grade but perhaps they get the "effort" award, or the Ms. Congeniality trophy.

They accomplished the S&T for DDR which was a win. Shed most of the old guard (other than resigning Forbes....Fvck!).

They did more than I expected, tbh.

[SAGirl]

So, the Spurs actually checked a couple of things off this list. Failed at some others. Maybe 50% or so....not a passing grade but perhaps they get the "effort" award, or the Ms. Congeniality trophy.
:lmao
This was hilarious.