Shams: Spurs Sending DeMar DeRozan to Chicago for Thad Young, a Future FRP, & 2 SRP’s

[R. DeMurre]

Derozan's shooting 39% from three through 10 games. It's a small sample size and mostly the result of two good games, but I wouldn't bet on it continuing.

There's always been so much emotion around any honest assessment of DeRozan's game. People are so eager to jump in and yell Hater!

My impression is he's a cool guy, but his style of play probably makes it nearly impossible for his team to win a championship. He'll help an average to good team win more regular season games and he'll put up impressive raw stats, but come playoff time, he'll always be the target of opposing scoring schemes and sagging/helping defenses. In an era when the most sought after prototype for his position is a 3 & D guy, he's someone who excels at almost everything except 3 & D.

[GAustex]

DDR too cool to play D

[John B]

I really think Demar’s facilitating and go to scoring would’ve fit perfectly at Philly as a 2nd or 3rd option. He didn’t work out in Spurs because he was the 1st option.

[Budkin]

I'm glad for Demar, he just couldn't carry a bunch of scrubs here.

[Dex]

Derozan's shooting 39% from three through 10 games. It's a small sample size and mostly the result of two good games, but I wouldn't bet on it continuing.

There's always been so much emotion around any honest assessment of DeRozan's game. People are so eager to jump in and yell Hater!

My impression is he's a cool guy, but his style of play probably makes it nearly impossible for his team to win a championship. He'll help an average to good team win more regular season games and he'll put up impressive raw stats, but come playoff time, he'll always be the target of opposing scoring schemes and sagging/helping defenses. In an era when the most sought after prototype for his position is a 3 & D guy, he's someone who excels at almost everything except 3 & D.

Well put. He is a guy who idolized Kobe, and wants to have that mamba mentality....but has never lived up to it when all the chips are on the table.

I'm not the biggest Kobe fan for various reasons....but that guy could definitely win a team games, even at the highest stakes. And he would do whatever it took to get to the top.

DeMar seems like a good guy, good teammate, etc....and was a good Spur during his tenure. It's frustrating that he suddenly has decided to start shooting threes when PATFO was begging him to do it all along.

We'll see how far Chicago goes. But I wouldn't be surprised if they fizzle out, and DeMar will be the guy leading the way

[baseline bum]

You guys do know DeRozan averaged 26.4 PPG his first 10 games on the Spurs right? Not very different from the 26.9 PPG he is averaging in his first 10 games in Chicago. I'm not buying the hype on him this season when he was a guy who always looked amazing in the early season here too before fading once the games started to matter. Every single year seemed like 'wow this is the season DeRozan has finally put it together' when he'd blow up early but it never was.

[daslicer]

You guys do know DeRozan averaged 26.4 PPG his first 10 games on the Spurs right? Not very different from the 26.9 PPG he is averaging in his first 10 games in Chicago. I'm not buying the hype on him this season when he was a guy who always looked amazing in the early season here too before fading once the games started to matter. Every single year seemed like 'wow this is the season DeRozan has finally put it together' when he'd blow up early but it never was.

Agreed. He's had stretches of 10-12 games every year with the Spurs where he looks great and then he fizzles out afterwards.

[exstatic]

I’m glad Demar is gone, but what’s frustrating to me is fans and media bought this narrative that Demar wasn’t good which again made his trade value crap

His trade value was crap because he was unrestricted. PATFO gets an A for pulling a future FRP and 3 SRPs in the 3 way trade, plus whatever we pull for Young.

It’s not any narrative that sets his value, it’s the fact that his game is outdated. He never adapted to the 2015 rules changes, and kept playing his mid range game. In spite of his early uptick in 3p shooting, he still takes 48% of his shots from 10’ out to the arc.

[JeffDuncan]

Agreed. He's had stretches of 10-12 games every year with the Spurs where he looks great and then he fizzles out afterwards.


Nah. That's a Spurstalk myth.

DDR's scoring in his last 10 games with the Spurs:
20
30
22
6 (a lousy game against Utah that the Spurs lost by 32 points)
25
20
23
21
27
23

There's no fading there, no problem with his late season scoring.

The year before, he wasn't quite as good late, but he still had games of 30, 29, and 25 points among his last ten games of the year.

DDR upheld his end of the bargain with the Spurs. He scored points, very consistently, all season. Trouble was, the Spurs as a team were not good. When DDR first got here, Murray was not good. Poeltl wasn't much good at first. Then of course there were things like starting Forbes. Puke. And all the rest of it.

It was never DDR, it was the team. Still is. Not that the Spurs should have kept him. Time to move on, certainly. But any claim that DDR was the problem with the Spurs is definitely not true.

The problems the Spurs had, when DDR was here, are still here.

[Trill Clinton]

Spurstalk.com told me Demar was trash

[John B]

Nah. That's a Spurstalk myth.

DDR's scoring in his last 10 games with the Spurs:
20
30
22
6 (a lousy game against Utah that the Spurs lost by 32 points)
25
20
23
21
27
23

There's no fading there, no problem with his late season scoring.

The year before, he wasn't quite as good late, but he still had games of 30, 29, and 25 points among his last ten games of the year.

DDR upheld his end of the bargain with the Spurs. He scored points, very consistently, all season. Trouble was, the Spurs as a team were not good. When DDR first got here, Murray was not good. Poeltl wasn't much good at first. Then of course there were things like starting Forbes. Puke. And all the rest of it.

It was never DDR, it was the team. Still is. Not that the Spurs should have kept him. Time to move on, certainly. But any claim that DDR was the problem with the Spurs is definitely not true.

The problems the Spurs had, when DDR was here, are still here.

Preach.

I’m happy for the guy. Bull’s announcer calling him De-Marvelous. I think he’ll get AS nod. I’m just happy he’s not helping Fakers instead of Russ (terrible pick :lmao:lmao). Then I would not be wishing his new team luck.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

DDR is one of the best offensive players in the league ...


on defense ... well ... still better than forbes

[spurs1990]

Look at the boxscores. DeRozan may be the 4th best player behind Lavigne, Vucivic, and Lavar Ball. All three had better stats tonight and Anthony Caruso wasn't far behind

[baseline bum]

Nah. That's a Spurstalk myth.

DDR's scoring in his last 10 games with the Spurs:
20
30
22
6 (a lousy game against Utah that the Spurs lost by 32 points)
25
20
23
21
27
23

There's no fading there, no problem with his late season scoring.

The year before, he wasn't quite as good late, but he still had games of 30, 29, and 25 points among his last ten games of the year.

DDR upheld his end of the bargain with the Spurs. He scored points, very consistently, all season. Trouble was, the Spurs as a team were not good. When DDR first got here, Murray was not good. Poeltl wasn't much good at first. Then of course there were things like starting Forbes. Puke. And all the rest of it.

It was never DDR, it was the team. Still is. Not that the Spurs should have kept him. Time to move on, certainly. But any claim that DDR was the problem with the Spurs is definitely not true.

The problems the Spurs had, when DDR was here, are still here.

His last ten games in 2018-19 were 16, 14, 19, 18, 31, 25, 19, 17, 25, 19, a drop of 6.1 PPG vs his hot early start that year.

[james evans]

Nah. That's a Spurstalk myth.

DDR's scoring in his last 10 games with the Spurs:
20
30
22
6 (a lousy game against Utah that the Spurs lost by 32 points)
25
20
23
21
27
23

There's no fading there, no problem with his late season scoring.

The year before, he wasn't quite as good late, but he still had games of 30, 29, and 25 points among his last ten games of the year.

DDR upheld his end of the bargain with the Spurs. He scored points, very consistently, all season. Trouble was, the Spurs as a team were not good. When DDR first got here, Murray was not good. Poeltl wasn't much good at first. Then of course there were things like starting Forbes. Puke. And all the rest of it.

It was never DDR, it was the team. Still is. Not that the Spurs should have kept him. Time to move on, certainly. But any claim that DDR was the problem with the Spurs is definitely not true.

The problems the Spurs had, when DDR was here, are still here.
a game is bigger than a box score total

[slick'81]

If the spurs secure that first for derozan ,and can somehow flip thaddeus for another, ill give brian wright his credit

[John B]

If the spurs secure that first for derozan ,and can somehow flip thaddeus for another, ill give brian wright his credit

It’s turning to be a good trade for the Bulls. I think they would be top 4 in the East and might even be a dark horse for the ECF. Now that would really light up this thread :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If the spurs secure that first for derozan ,and can somehow flip thaddeus for another, ill give brian wright his credit

Very unlikely that they could get a first as most contenders can't trade any. A couple of second rounders or a middling prospect is a more realistic return.

[duncan2k5]

Nah. That's a Spurstalk myth.

DDR's scoring in his last 10 games with the Spurs:
20
30
22
6 (a lousy game against Utah that the Spurs lost by 32 points)
25
20
23
21
27
23

There's no fading there, no problem with his late season scoring.

The year before, he wasn't quite as good late, but he still had games of 30, 29, and 25 points among his last ten games of the year.

DDR upheld his end of the bargain with the Spurs. He scored points, very consistently, all season. Trouble was, the Spurs as a team were not good. When DDR first got here, Murray was not good. Poeltl wasn't much good at first. Then of course there were things like starting Forbes. Puke. And all the rest of it.

It was never DDR, it was the team. Still is. Not that the Spurs should have kept him. Time to move on, certainly. But any claim that DDR was the problem with the Spurs is definitely not true.

The problems the Spurs had, when DDR was here, are still here.

DDR has always been empty calories... That's the issue... Advanced metrics and eye test has always shown it... Not to mention his collapses in big games

[rjv]

DDR has always been empty calories... That's the issue... Advanced metrics and eye test has always shown it... Not to mention his collapses in big games

DDR was also an iso player and his dominant possession of the ball hindered the development of the younger players.

[duncan2k5]

It’s turning to be a good trade for the Bulls. I think they would be top 4 in the East and might even be a dark horse for the ECF. Now that would really light up this thread :lol

I thought they would be top 4 even without DDR... Vuc and Ball compliment Lavine very well

[exstatic]

Thaddeus has the highest BPM and WS/48 on the club.

[exstatic]

Very unlikely that they could get a first as most contenders can't trade any. A couple of second rounders or a middling prospect is a more realistic return.

Thad is ballin, and his advanced stats are on fire. He plays winning basketball, and some contender will notice, and cough up a first rounder for him. It doesn’t have to be this year or next. The pick we got from Chicago is in 2025, and Im totally fine with another puck that far out.

[The Truth #6]

DDR was also an iso player and his dominant possession of the ball hindered the development of the younger players.

Exactly. DDR’s style of play limited those around him to specific roles, standing around being a common one. I still like DDR, basically, and wonder how we could have utilized him better, but it’s not a complete coincidence that DDR’s exit, along with Patty, Rudy, and LMA, to be fair, has resulted in younger players expanding their games.

[wildbill2u]

Young is beginning to show his value since he began getting some minutes with Poertle out. I expect him to continue to get some minutes when Poertle comes back or in rotation at PF. Not a spectacular player, but useful.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Thad is ballin, and his advanced stats are on fire. He plays winning basketball, and some contender will notice, and cough up a first rounder for him. It doesn’t have to be this year or next. The pick we got from Chicago is in 2025, and Im totally fine with another puck that far out.

I'd be happy with any first as well but it'd be difficult :

Lakers - earliest first they can trade is 2027 and besides they don't have the ballast contracts either to make a deal work
Clippers - earliest first they can trade is 2028
Utah - earliest is 2026 if they convey firsts both to Memphis and OKC at the earliest possible time ( which seems likely tbh )
Warriors - they have the picks, but don't have the ballast contracts
Suns - they can trade their 2024 first if they convey this year's to OKC, thus the multiple links as back as preseason. It depends on how the Spurs see Saric.
Denver - earliest would be 2027 if they convey both firsts to OKC and Orlando at the earliest possible time
Nets - earliest is 2028
Bucks - no picks to trade
Philly - they have picks but will likely wait for the Simmons situation to be resolved first
Heat - possibly a first as early as 2025 but they also don't have the contracts to make a deal work

So, basically, while not impossible, it'd still be very complicated to get any first for Young unless some unsuspected team gets desperate. For example Portland blew away a first for Larry Nance, who's hardly a better player than Thad, although he's signed through next season. Memphis also have 2 additional firsts this season ( LAL, UTAH ) that they won't really need.

[Mr. Body]

Young is like Taj Gibson and other players. When he came in, I didn't expect a longtime savvy pro to be the result. Too bad so many teams are leveraged to the gills and have no assets. Some have suggested a good platoon guy like him could have won the Suns the chip last year. I can see why. A few plays won here or there tips games.

[Dejounte]

Repeat it with me: Thad is not going to play any minutes at PF.

he hasn’t spent a second at that position since he came here. It’s not going to happen. He’s a center now.

[cjw]

Thad is ballin, and his advanced stats are on fire. He plays winning basketball, and some contender will notice, and cough up a first rounder for him. It doesn’t have to be this year or next. The pick we got from Chicago is in 2025, and Im totally fine with another puck that far out.

The Spurs should actually prefer picks that are farther out. The roster is a bit of a logjam in the near term, especially with space in near future and flexibility, plus a high first likely being added next year.

If the core guys develop, picks in the 2025-2026 range will be near term and if they turn out to be late firsts, can be used as small trade chips to help buttress the roster. If they’re lottery picks, all the better.

Keep featuring Thad and hope someone bites.

[duncan2k5]

Exactly. DDR’s style of play limited those around him to specific roles, standing around being a common one. I still like DDR, basically, and wonder how we could have utilized him better, but it’s not a complete coincidence that DDR’s exit, along with Patty, Rudy, and LMA, to be fair, has resulted in younger players expanding their games.

Toronto utilized him best and they always collapsed in the playoffs due to his horrible games and disappearing acts... He needs to be on a team like the bulls where he is the third or 4th important player... Anywhere he is the leader or 2nd option is destined to collapse when playoff time comes

[Seventyniner]

If only the Lakers had the right contracts to trade back, I would totally target their 2027 first. They could very well be bottom-feeders again by then.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If only the Lakers had the right contracts to trade back, I would totally target their 2027 first. They could very well be bottom-feeders again by then.

Well yeah but no one is trading a pick that far away without heavy protections for a non superstar.

Btw, does anyone know ( Chinook ? ) what happens with picks that far in the future that are protected after the 7 year limit? Say, a team trade their 2028 first with lottery protections, can they protect their 2029 pick as well even though they can't trade it? Do they turn into 2nds or something?

[The Truth #6]

Toronto utilized him best and they always collapsed in the playoffs due to his horrible games and disappearing acts... He needs to be on a team like the bulls where he is the third or 4th important player... Anywhere he is the leader or 2nd option is destined to collapse when playoff time comes

I don’t disagree. On our team, making him the point guard to drive and kick was my hope for what they’d do given that he was already here and we had to use him somehow. To clarify, I thought trading for him put us years behind in trying a failed experiment. I simply wanted the experiment to have a chance given what lemons we as fans were given.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs should actually prefer picks that are farther out. The roster is a bit of a logjam in the near term, especially with space in near future and flexibility, plus a high first likely being added next year.

If the core guys develop, picks in the 2025-2026 range will be near term and if they turn out to be late firsts, can be used as small trade chips to help buttress the roster. If they’re lottery picks, all the better.

Keep featuring Thad and hope someone bites.

This is the right way of looking at things. Try to target teams that will likely be bad in the latter part of the decade. Phoenix, Los Angeles Lakers. Only if they could match the salary, but can't.

[Seventyniner]

Well yeah but no one is trading a pick that far away without heavy protections for a non superstar.

Btw, does anyone know ( Chinook ? ) what happens with picks that far in the future that are protected after the 7 year limit? Say, a team trade their 2028 first with lottery protections, can they protect their 2029 pick as well even though they can't trade it? Do they turn into 2nds or something?

You're right about a pick probably being protected, but the Lakers have a history of doing dumb things when they're desperate. Couldn't hurt to give them a call.

Chinook will know better than I, but iirc the Stepien Rule says a team can't make a trade that could potentially leave them with no first-round pick in back-to-back future drafts. So even if a future pick is protected, the possibility of it conveying prevents that team from trading their first in the prior or subsequent draft years.

I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that so don't take my answer as definitive.

[exstatic]

I'd be happy with any first as well but it'd be difficult :

Lakers - earliest first they can trade is 2027 and besides they don't have the ballast contracts either to make a deal work
Clippers - earliest first they can trade is 2028
Utah - earliest is 2026 if they convey firsts both to Memphis and OKC at the earliest possible time ( which seems likely tbh )
Warriors - they have the picks, but don't have the ballast contracts
Suns - they can trade their 2024 first if they convey this year's to OKC, thus the multiple links as back as preseason. It depends on how the Spurs see Saric.
Denver - earliest would be 2027 if they convey both firsts to OKC and Orlando at the earliest possible time
Nets - earliest is 2028
Bucks - no picks to trade
Philly - they have picks but will likely wait for the Simmons situation to be resolved first
Heat - possibly a first as early as 2025 but they also don't have the contracts to make a deal work

So, basically, while not impossible, it'd still be very complicated to get any first for Young unless some unsuspected team gets desperate. For example Portland blew away a first for Larry Nance, who's hardly a better player than Thad, although he's signed through next season. Memphis also have 2 additional firsts this season ( LAL, UTAH ) that they won't really need.

Playoff teams that might be interested: Dallas 2025. Miami 2025. New York is pick rich, with all of their firsts, and this years first from Charlotte, and next year’s Dallas first rounder. Utah in 2026. Portland 2024.

[Chinook]

Well yeah but no one is trading a pick that far away without heavy protections for a non superstar.

Btw, does anyone know ( Chinook ? ) what happens with picks that far in the future that are protected after the 7 year limit? Say, a team trade their 2028 first with lottery protections, can they protect their 2029 pick as well even though they can't trade it? Do they turn into 2nds or something?

No, a team can't protect a pick beyond the seven-year limit. That's why the Chicago pick becomes a second in 2028 if not conveyed. That's also why you get picks like the 2012 Wolves pick that finally conveyed after being protected forever. In this case, the hypothetical team would have to trade 2028 unprotected or have it become seconds, and then 2029 would be off limits until next off-season.

[tbdog]

DDR with another monster game.

[slick'81]

DDR with another monster game.

thanks for the reminder :lol

[exstatic]

You people would have been SO unhappy if the Spurs had re-signed him.

We literally won’t know the outcome of this trade for somewhere between 4 and 8 years, depending on if/when the pick conveys, plus development time. It would actually be a disaster if Chicago tanked, since the pick protections are top 10/8/8 and if not conveyed, it becomes a second rounder.

[slick'81]

You people would have been SO unhappy if the Spurs had re-signed him.

We literally won’t know the outcome of this trade for somewhere between 4 and 8 years, depending on if/when the pick conveys, plus development time. It would actually be a disaster if Chicago tanked, since the pick protections are top 10/8/8 and if not conveyed, it becomes a second rounder.

the pick is so far off odds are chi is rebuilding by then. Its a gamble for sure. Hopefully it works out and spurs get a first outta it or else its a pretty meh trade overall

[exstatic]

the pick is so far off odds are chi is rebuilding by then. Its a gamble for sure. Hopefully it works out and spurs get a first outta it or else its a pretty meh trade overall

2025 will be the year after DeMar’s current contract expires.I think a lot depends on what Lavine does.

I think their pick in 2023 heading to Orlando probably will convey since it’s top 4 protected, and DeRozan alone should be able to lift them higher than that, so we probably get 3 shots at the Chicago FRP. If Lavine re-signs, we’ll probably get the FRP one of those 3 years. If Both DD and Lavine move on, we’re probably screwed.

[KingKev]

The Spurs should actually prefer picks that are farther out. The roster is a bit of a logjam in the near term, especially with space in near future and flexibility, plus a high first likely being added next year.

If the core guys develop, picks in the 2025-2026 range will be near term and if they turn out to be late firsts, can be used as small trade chips to help buttress the roster. If they’re lottery picks, all the better.

Keep featuring Thad and hope someone bites.

Wouldn’t be as much of a logjam if we traded White just to get him off the books and let Walker walk.

[spurraider21]

You people would have been SO unhappy if the Spurs had re-signed him.
justifiably so :tu

[Mr. Body]

DDR was carrying this team. I hope people realize that now.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

You people would have been SO unhappy if the Spurs had re-signed him.

We literally won’t know the outcome of this trade for somewhere between 4 and 8 years, depending on if/when the pick conveys, plus development time. It would actually be a disaster if Chicago tanked, since the pick protections are top 10/8/8 and if not conveyed, it becomes a second rounder.

When is this group ever happy? Honestly. People bitched during the golden years.

[spurraider21]

DDR was carrying this team. I hope people realize that now.
carrying the team to purgatory

[exstatic]

DDR was carrying this team. I hope people realize that now.

I think we need to wait at least until the ASG to make that determination. We’ve had a brutally difficult schedule, lost more than a few close games, and our defensive anchor has been on protocols for half the season to date, 6/13.

[Sugus]

When is this group ever happy? Honestly. People bitched during the golden years.

I was hilariously un-surprised to come back to SpursTalk after a while and see the same old suspects, having bitched about the team fighting for a playoff spot for years instead of tanking "like they should have always done", are still unhappy and complaining, because now the Spurs aren't tanking their way, not playing this or that rookie more minutes and overplaying this or that other guy.

It's actually impressive, the energy it takes to consistently find things to bitch about. I said a while ago that this portion of ST wouldn't be able to handle an actual tank, and it's spot on, they're already not handling this well, and we're not even "tanking". Such is life...

[John B]

Me, I’m just genuinely happy for Demar since he’s a good character, especially being snubbed by the AS and ESPN the last couple of years, for what it’s worth. That despite playing equally efficient with the Spurs, albeit Bulls are winning. But that shows again how media treats players playing for the Spurs, and why FA would rather not sign with the Spurs because of the enigma. It’s like signing a death contract. Heck even our TP and Manu with their accolades didn’t make the Best 75 All Time Greatest, and I’m even starting to doubt if both would be 1st Ballot Hofer. But that’s for another thread.

[Mr. Body]

I think we need to wait at least until the ASG to make that determination. We’ve had a brutally difficult schedule, lost more than a few close games, and our defensive anchor has been on protocols for half the season to date, 6/13.

I think this team should improve, and schedule has been bad, but this isn't a team of impressive talent that was held back by the veterans as so many wiseacres here have claimed.

[exstatic]

I think this team should improve, and schedule has been bad, but this isn't a team of impressive talent that was held back by the veterans as so many wiseacres here have claimed.

Agreed. I think the Spurs will be a lot better later in the season.

[Mr. Body]

DeRozan shredding the Lakers right now. To be fair, so is Levine and Adam Caruso and...

[Barfunk]

DeRozan at it again. 38 tonight and averaging 26 for the season. Couldn't do that here in Pop's "no stats allowed" system.

[Arcadian]

Tore up the Lakers tonight!

[timtonymanu]

The Spurs and Demar needed to part ways. The Spurs were wasting Demar’s remaining good years and Demar was just delaying the rebuilding process, basically guaranteeing that we don’t draft out of the top 10. Getting 35 wins at best wasn’t enough to keep him here. Glad he’s in a better situation though.

[tbdog]

That's not what ST thought about DDR. They thought the spurs would be better without him. Walker and White's untapped offensive potential wouid be unlock. The defense would be better and so would the spacing. And yet there he is surrounded by good players putting up great numbers and winning. While White and Walker are stinking it up and losing.

[Fireball]

Derozan is in a much better position now with the Bulls ... synergies with players surrounding him ... more "attention" should lead to more calls going to the FT line i.e. less frustration for him. He deserves it.

[rjv]

Derozan is in a much better position now with the Bulls ... synergies with players surrounding him ... more "attention" should lead to more calls going to the FT line i.e. less frustration for him. He deserves it.

yeah. the bottom line is that demar was just playing on a very bad team and he was what was keeping the spurs from being a total train wreck. conversely, he was also keeping the spurs in basketball purgatory by taking away minutes from other players. ultimately, his departure is of mutual benefit to both demar and the spurs. but i wish nothing but the best for demar as well.

[duncan2150]

yeah. the bottom line is that demar was just playing on a very bad team and he was what was keeping the spurs from being a total train wreck. conversely, he was also keeping the spurs in basketball purgatory by taking away minutes from other players. ultimately, his departure is of mutual benefit to both demar and the spurs. but i wish nothing but the best for demar as well.

+1

[Uriel]

The front office did try to re-sign DeRozan, but he demanded too much money. Since the alternative was to trade him to Chicago for Young and a first round pick, I'd say things still worked out pretty well. For both sides.

[Mr. Body]

That's not what ST thought about DDR. They thought the spurs would be better without him. Walker and White's untapped offensive potential wouid be unlock. The defense would be better and so would the spacing. And yet there he is surrounded by good players putting up great numbers and winning. While White and Walker are stinking it up and losing.

Yep. The group think on this board is consistently idiotic.

[Mr. Body]

The front office did try to re-sign DeRozan, but he demanded too much money.

That's like Robert Duvall asking for a shit ton of money to be in Godfather III. Doesn't say outright "no," just make sure it's enough they won't pay.

[rjv]

That's like Robert Duvall asking for a shit ton of money to be in Godfather III. Doesn't say outright "no," just make sure it's enough they won't pay.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPwNoJEuNdM9ZcucSoOqri3hGTCWjS8 tWaXg&usqp=CAU
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[Fireball]

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2021/11/16/22783794/spurs-fans-happy-for-demar-derozans-success-bulls

[slick'81]

What did chicago give up exactly? Of course chi is doing well. They acquired derozan, and gave up amineww along with a vet they didn't even need on an expiring . The spurs gave up kawhi to land derozan ffs. Its the raptors trade all over again.Spurs cant get out of their own way

[Chucho]

What did chicago give up exactly? Of course chi is doing well. They acquired derozan, and gave up amineww along with a vet they didn't even need on an expiring . The spurs gave up kawhi to land derozan ffs. Its the raptors trade all over again.Spurs cant get out of their own way

How so?

Kawhi lasted a whopping 1 season with Toronto, whom we traded with. The asset we got in return was here for 3 seasons and we managed to turn that into something, which is better than nothing. The whole bunch of nothing we would have gotten by letting Leonard sit.

[Dex]

That's not what ST thought about DDR. They thought the spurs would be better without him. Walker and White's untapped offensive potential wouid be unlock. The defense would be better and so would the spacing. And yet there he is surrounded by good players putting up great numbers and winning. While White and Walker are stinking it up and losing.

Chicago also has the 7th best defense according to Hollinger right now.

I know it's still early and no one is ever going to say DeRozan is a great defender, but maybe he wasn't quite the weak link that some people wanted to make him out to be.

[Sugus]

That's not what ST thought about DDR. They thought the spurs would be better without him. Walker and White's untapped offensive potential wouid be unlock. The defense would be better and so would the spacing. And yet there he is surrounded by good players putting up great numbers and winning. While White and Walker are stinking it up and losing.

The Spurs are better without him, though. Just not immediate record-wise. The separation was needed for both sides; I'm glad he's balling in Chicago, but he wasn't a good fit here, and will probably shrink come playoff time as he tends to do, and did consistently here, all the way up to his last game in Spurs uniform in the play-in, shitting the bed in amazing fashion. Can't put a dress on a pig and expect it to model, or so they say... We'll see whether Chicago has the co-star power to overcome DDR's anti-clutch genes.

Lastly, the defense is better, or was at least until Jak got hit with safety protocols. The spacing is better and would be even better had we replaced a non-shooting PF with a shooting PF instead of Keldon, who's incredibly forgotten how to make a 3. White and Walker aren't working out (yet), but the outlook of the team is much better short-and-long-term than when he was here, for sure, especially now that we're getting to see the young guys swim (and sink) without him.

Of course DeRozan would play better and win with two other All-Stars on the roster; he managed to make the ECF with only one AS besides him, after all. Sadly, the NBA is less about regular season victories than it is about championships, and that will ultimately determine DDR's fate and reputation.

[PhantomDashCam]

Even at 4-9 to start the year, Spurs are one of 15 teams with a positive point differential (at time of posting). Spurs have been in every game this year sans two.

It’s ironic that the Spurs main issue atm seems to be closing out games something that DDR was perceived by National media outlets at doing well.
My take on this though is the coaching staff should have done a better job involving different players in end of game sets l/y instead of ISO DDR ball.

[Mr. Body]

What did chicago give up exactly? Of course chi is doing well. They acquired derozan, and gave up amineww along with a vet they didn't even need on an expiring . The spurs gave up kawhi to land derozan ffs. Its the raptors trade all over again.Spurs cant get out of their own way

Dude, DDR could have just fucking walked. That the Spurs got a tidy package for him was impressive.

[Mr. Body]

Even at 4-9 to start the year, Spurs are one of 15 teams with a positive point differential (at time of posting). Spurs have been in every game this year sans two.

It’s ironic that the Spurs main issue atm seems to be closing out games something that DDR was perceived by National media outlets at doing well.
My take on this though is the coaching staff should have done a better job involving different players in end of game sets l/y instead of ISO DDR ball.

I don't know if it would have made any difference. None of the younger players can score, no matter what time of the ballgame it is.

[Seventyniner]

Yeah, the Spurs aren't as bad as their record would indicate. They're playing like a 0.500 team.

I know some of their opponents have had injuries (LeBron, Porzingis) but Poeltl has missed 6 games and he's at least the second most important player on the team in regards to how big the dropoff is to his backup.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

let's just chill, make sure to lose ~15 close games and get a nice high first round draft pick

:smokin

[tmtcsc]

DeRozan shredding the Lakers right now. To be fair, so is Levine and Adam Caruso and...

The only team that can't be the Lakers is the Spurs. Everyone else is having fun kicking them around while the Spurs get bitched slapped. Like others have said, I'm sure they'll win a few more games when they get to play the other JV dregs of the league. The Spurs suck right now & all the personality disorders of last year still exist. Derrick White is a fragile head case who doesn't take his job seriously, Lonnie Walker can't put consistent effort out every night and disappears without a trace. Murray has improved but has his limitations. Keldon can't shoot despite having a great motor.. The only semi-bright spots have been Jakob and Devin.

I'm about to pull the cable cord & I won't have access to Spurs' games. I'm not even sweating it. They just aren't good and haven't been in a while now.

[tbdog]

Spurs will struggle against big teams until smith comes back well. And by that stage, Young is probably traded.

[objective]

Chicago also has the 7th best defense according to Hollinger right now.

I know it's still early and no one is ever going to say DeRozan is a great defender, but maybe he wasn't quite the weak link that some people wanted to make him out to be.

When DeRozan tries he's an okay defender, and he was okay his first year in San Antonio also. He just cared less 2 years ago and completely quit last season. People like the Duncd On podcast awarded him 'Worst Defender in the League' 2 years ago when he wasn't even the worst starting Spur (Forbes), but last year he was really bad with the effort.

So it's no surprise to me that he isn't that bad on defense, it's his first year and he has a chip on his shoulder with something to prove.

I bet he's not quitting on getting back on defense in Chicago like he did last year.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

^ Blatant tampering.

It mustn't have been the offseason when they talked, since the Westbrook trade was done prior to it.

[baseline bum]

DeRozan at it again. 38 tonight and averaging 26 for the season. Couldn't do that here in Pop's "no stats allowed" system.

Wow he's averaging a whole 1.3PPG more with Chicago than he averaged his first 14 games on the Spurs.

[Chinook]

^ Blatant tampering.

It mustn't have been the offseason when they talked, since the Westbrook trade was done prior to it.

Not actually tampering. The article is carefully worded. DeRozan and Lebron talking isn't against the rules, and DeMar's agent asking the Spurs if there was a package they'd accept from the Lakers for DeRozan isn't either. That the Lakers made the Westbrook trade without telling DeRozan's agent is actually evidence that they weren't in correspondence about DeMar going there. The article makes it seem like James and DMDR had an understanding that led Goodwin to start urging SA to take an S&T with LAL, but then LAL went with the Westbrook trade without talking to the Spurs or DeRozan about a deal.

Also, the off-season almost certainly just means the time after the Lakers were eliminated. I don't think the players care about the official league calendar.

[bluebellmaniac]

I'd be happy with any first as well but it'd be difficult :

Lakers - earliest first they can trade is 2027 and besides they don't have the ballast contracts either to make a deal work
Clippers - earliest first they can trade is 2028
Utah - earliest is 2026 if they convey firsts both to Memphis and OKC at the earliest possible time ( which seems likely tbh )
Warriors - they have the picks, but don't have the ballast contracts
Suns - they can trade their 2024 first if they convey this year's to OKC, thus the multiple links as back as preseason. It depends on how the Spurs see Saric.
Denver - earliest would be 2027 if they convey both firsts to OKC and Orlando at the earliest possible time
Nets - earliest is 2028
Bucks - no picks to trade
Philly - they have picks but will likely wait for the Simmons situation to be resolved first
Heat - possibly a first as early as 2025 but they also don't have the contracts to make a deal work

So, basically, while not impossible, it'd still be very complicated to get any first for Young unless some unsuspected team gets desperate. For example Portland blew away a first for Larry Nance, who's hardly a better player than Thad, although he's signed through next season. Memphis also have 2 additional firsts this season ( LAL, UTAH ) that they won't really need.

Nothing wrong will piling up picks for the future either. Get the best you can. Having an extra first 5 years from now might be something we could really use. And, as a bonus, if we want to make a pitch for a player, we'd have picks to throw in on the offer. It's all good.

[KingKev]

let's just chill, make sure to lose ~15 close games and get a nice high first round draft pick

:smokin

Goldilocks scenario. Remain competitive, get the young guns great experience, secure a top 5 pick with cap flexibility and maybe a changing of the guard to the new world NBA in the next few years.

[Barfunk]

Wow he's averaging a whole 1.3PPG more with Chicago than he averaged his first 14 games on the Spurs.

There's obviously a little bit of exaggeration in my comment, which I do from time to time when bagging on Pop. As I've said before, he's my all time favorite coach, and I believe he's the goat when it comes to that, but he needs to go already in my opinion.

He's literally put players in the doghouse after they've had a great game, (hence the half joking/half serious "no stats allowed" remark). I don't know, but to me that's a pretty ridiculous coaching practice. Pop is the type of coach that pulls a player out of the game if they're like on the verge of an NBA record or something like that. Just my observation.

[Harry Callahan]

The idiot named Eddie Johnson (Suns Shill and former slightly above average player) stated on NBA radio yesterday that the SAS would be losers the next 4-5 years and talked about how the Spurs system right now is so restrictive and limited that no one wants to play there. Also mentioned how great DDR has been with the Bulls since leaving the prison called the Spurs. Last time I checked last year by actually watching Spurs games (unlike Eddie Johnson) DDR had the keys to the car all season long and much of the prior year as well. He had excellent offensive numbers in the 4th quarter (just like this year). Once again this proves that you do not have to have talent to be on the TV or Radio given the oversupply of hours to fill and the lack of interesting people to fill those hours.

The facts of the situation are that the Spurs are trying to play a much more wide upon style with ball movement due to the lack of a "go to" scorer at the moment. There are some good pieces on the roster, but the Alpha is not here right now. The "media" sucks. The Bulls #1 pick could be a good one when its available. DeRozan will definitely be on the down side by then and a lot can change in four years. A little over four years ago, the Spurs were the 2nd best team in basketball and could have won the 2017 title.

[Mr. Body]

DeRozan is a great link-up player. A connector. He's a good scorer, of course, but in SA he learned how to tie a team together. Now, the younger players weren't actually that good, so the team wasn't that great, but in Chicago he has a wealth of weapons.

Incidentally, LMA looks great in Brooklyn right now.

[cd98]

DDR played great every year for the Spurs. He put up all star stats. He’s got better talent with him in Chicago but a lot of that talk is just jealousy from teams we have beaten so many times it will take 20 losing seasons to catch up.

[exstatic]

DeRozan is a great link-up player. A connector. He's a good scorer, of course, but in SA he learned how to tie a team together. Now, the younger players weren't actually that good, so the team wasn't that great, but in Chicago he has a wealth of weapons.

Incidentally, LMA looks great in Brooklyn right now.

16 games off the bench, a role he is suited for at this point in his career, but refused to play for SA.

[talkspurs]

Thad is ballin, and his advanced stats are on fire. He plays winning basketball, and some contender will notice, and cough up a first rounder for him. It doesn’t have to be this year or next. The pick we got from Chicago is in 2025, and Im totally fine with another puck that far out.

In some ways I would rather have it further out. Most teams that would want him are probably pretty good now. They may not be in the future.

[talkspurs]

I'd be happy with any first as well but it'd be difficult :

Lakers - earliest first they can trade is 2027 and besides they don't have the ballast contracts either to make a deal work
Clippers - earliest first they can trade is 2028
Utah - earliest is 2026 if they convey firsts both to Memphis and OKC at the earliest possible time ( which seems likely tbh )
Warriors - they have the picks, but don't have the ballast contracts
Suns - they can trade their 2024 first if they convey this year's to OKC, thus the multiple links as back as preseason. It depends on how the Spurs see Saric.
Denver - earliest would be 2027 if they convey both firsts to OKC and Orlando at the earliest possible time
Nets - earliest is 2028
Bucks - no picks to trade
Philly - they have picks but will likely wait for the Simmons situation to be resolved first
Heat - possibly a first as early as 2025 but they also don't have the contracts to make a deal work

So, basically, while not impossible, it'd still be very complicated to get any first for Young unless some unsuspected team gets desperate. For example Portland blew away a first for Larry Nance, who's hardly a better player than Thad, although he's signed through next season. Memphis also have 2 additional firsts this season ( LAL, UTAH ) that they won't really need.

I would rather it be a first further down the line. A team trading for him will think they are good so probably a lower pick. If they get worse in a few years then the pick could be better.

[Kurgan]

16 games off the bench, a role he is suited for at this point in his career, but refused to play for SA.

If SA was a title contender, I'm sure he'd be more than willing to be a backup. No former star wants to come off the bench for a garbage lottery team

[John B]

DeRozan is a great link-up player. A connector. He's a good scorer, of course, but in SA he learned how to tie a team together. Now, the younger players weren't actually that good, so the team wasn't that great, but in Chicago he has a wealth of weapons.

Incidentally, LMA looks great in Brooklyn right now.

Both DDR and LMA are playing with better team mates right now. Of course they will be winning more games. DDR was playing the same, while LMA could be playing better because he gets open shots playing with former MVP’s. That’s obvious. The media is spinning stories to be relevant. And there are always going to be people who are bitter about the Spurs dominating the last 3 decades, only missing the playoffs a 3 years. The sad thing is people and other players are buying into the enigma. I’m sure DDR gets AS this year and we hear more of this narrative. But check his stats and it would be the same. Ironically, Spurs made DDR a more all-around player.

[Ice009]

DeRozan is a great link-up player. A connector. He's a good scorer, of course, but in SA he learned how to tie a team together. Now, the younger players weren't actually that good, so the team wasn't that great, but in Chicago he has a wealth of weapons.

Incidentally, LMA looks great in Brooklyn right now.

Wow, just had a look, didn't realize LMA was playing that well. I forgot he returned. I assume he's playing better than Mills?

[Harry Callahan]

LMA quit playing here. He had no desire to play for a team with no shot at playoff success. DDR made the Spurs just good enough to be in the middle of the pack. Since Asbergers man quit on us four years ago and tanked his value, no teams were willing to give up a ton of assets - as a result, no high draft picks unrelated to the Spurs record. It's very simple to understand and no amount of wishing or speculating can change the short term situation.

[exstatic]

LMA quit playing here. He had no desire to play for a team with no shot at playoff success. DDR made the Spurs just good enough to be in the middle of the pack. Since Asbergers man quit on us four years ago and tanked his value, no teams were willing to give up a ton of assets - as a result, no high draft picks unrelated to the Spurs record. It's very simple to understand and no amount of wishing or speculating can change the short term situation.

LMA quit playing defense, leading to his benching. He wouldn’t come off the bench, but the Spurs covered for him with some non-descript injury which healed just long enough for him to come off the bench after the COVID are-start, and when we had enough players again, he again got some injury.

With basically the same team, but less developed youngsters, he led us to the playoffs in 2018. He just quit last year.

[R. DeMurre]

I'm happy for DeMar because he seems like a good guy, but he's not the only move the Bulls made either-- they upgraded with Lonzo and Caruso, have a more acclimated Vucevic, and have LaVine entering his peak-- and they're still considered a pretty extreme long shot to win a championship, not even in the Top 10 in terms of betting odds. I still think it was a good decision to move on from him.

[BillMc]

The only team that can't be the Lakers is the Spurs. Everyone else is having fun kicking them around while the Spurs get bitched slapped. Like others have said, I'm sure they'll win a few more games when they get to play the other JV dregs of the league. The Spurs suck right now & all the personality disorders of last year still exist. Derrick White is a fragile head case who doesn't take his job seriously, Lonnie Walker can't put consistent effort out every night and disappears without a trace. Murray has improved but has his limitations. Keldon can't shoot despite having a great motor.. The only semi-bright spots have been Jakob and Devin.

I'm about to pull the cable cord & I won't have access to Spurs' games. I'm not even sweating it. They just aren't good and haven't been in a while now.

I agree with most your points, but what makes you think White doesn't take the job seriously? I'd say he almost takes it too seriously as he gets down on himself so hard after every mistake it seems to affect his confidence the rest of the game

[Mr. Body]

16 games off the bench, a role he is suited for at this point in his career, but refused to play for SA.

LMA should be starting for the Nets. He's better than Griffin.

[Mr. Body]

Wow, just had a look, didn't realize LMA was playing that well. I forgot he returned. I assume he's playing better than Mills?

I would say Mills is better, but they play two different roles. LMA just looks great, mobile, gives them a completely different look and is doesn't suck on defense. I don't know the advanced stats, though. Without Kyrie, the Nets needed scoring punch, which both players deliver. I'm happy for them.

[Fusternino]

DDR just so clutch.

[Seventyniner]

DDR is a legitimate All-Star level talent. But he's not what the Spurs need right now and I'm glad the Spurs got a decent haul in return.

[Mr. Body]

Legit in the MVP talks right now. Best scorer in the 4th quarter in the league this year.

[timtonymanu]

Glad for him. It's clearly a way better situation for him and I hope it's improving his mental health.

[slick'81]

So now spurs gave away another mvp candidate for pretty much nothing?!

[Teamduncan21]

So now spurs gave away another mvp candidate for pretty much nothing?!

he is free agent, so we dont get that much of a choice, most of us want him gone anyway

[cd98]

DDR is good enough to be a 3 on a championship team, and arguably a two. But he isn't good enough to take a lottery team and turn them into a contender. Only a few players in the league can do that, like Luka or Durrant or Lebron. He's not a number one so while he made the Spurs competitive, he could not make them a playoff level team without more all-star talent. When he had LMA in all-star form, they were a playoff team.

[exstatic]

DDR is good enough to be a 3 on a championship team, and arguably a two. But he isn't good enough to take a lottery team and turn them into a contender. Only a few players in the league can do that, like Luka or Durrant or Lebron. He's not a number one so while he made the Spurs competitive, he could not make them a playoff level team without more all-star talent. When he had LMA in all-star form, they were a playoff team.

He’s inefficient. Westbrook never impressed me with his counting stats, and neither does DeRozan. I’m glad he was unwilling to take a two year deal,or we’d be stuck watching boring, sub .500 ISO ball.

[Leetonidas]

:lol @ the posters missing demar

His stats are pretty much the same. He is taking more shots and averaging less assists. His advanced numbers are down slightly. All in all he is the same player he was here. Difference is the Bulls have two other legit all stars with range and solid defensive role players. He is not and never will be an MVP candidate level player

[niraj2000]

:lol @ the posters missing demar

His stats are pretty much the same. He is taking more shots and averaging less assists. His advanced numbers are down slightly. All in all he is the same player he was here. Difference is the Bulls have two other legit all stars with range and solid defensive role players. He is not and never will be an MVP candidate level player

Exactly...Demar is still the same. He will flame out badly in the playoffs. Look at his stats in the play in game against Grizzlies last year or game 7 against the Nuggets.

[Ice009]

Exactly...Demar is still the same. He will flame out badly in the playoffs. Look at his stats in the play in game against Grizzlies last year or game 7 against the Nuggets.

Didn't Demar tell the young guys before the play-in game that they need to be ready? I am sure I read that, and after his performance yet again (game 7 against the Nuggets also came to mind) in a big game, I had no problem whatsoever letting him walk or trading him (telling the young guys they need to be ready and then playing that poorly didn't sit well with me). I didn't want him back at all after that. I'd seen enough. I like the guy, but he has shown time and time again what kind of player he is as the lead dog when the games matter.

I wish him well, though, as he really does seem like a good guy.

[The Truth #6]

Glad we got something in trading him. Help me remember what we have gotten so far in total from the Kawhi trade and then the subsequent DDR trade:

Yak
Keldon (from Toronto’s 29 pick)
Thad Young
The Corpse of Aminu
And what picks? I recall a bunch of teeth gnashing about what we may or may not receive.

[KingKev]

Glad we got something in trading him. Help me remember what we have gotten so far in total from the Kawhi trade and then the subsequent DDR trade:

Yak
Keldon (from Toronto’s 29 pick)
Thad Young
The Corpse of Aminu
And what picks? I recall a bunch of teeth gnashing about what we may or may not receive.

We gave up Kawhi, Danny Green and ~5mm and as it stands now, nearly 4 years later we have the following to show:

- Jak
- Keldon (raps FRP)
- Young
- Aminu (waived)
- Bulls 2025 protected FRP (top 10 first year, top 8 2026/27, else SRP 2028)
- Lakers 2022 SRP via Bulls (Edited - Thanks Ex)
- Bulls 2025 SRP

[KingKev]

We gave up Kawhi, Danny Green and ~5mm and as it stands now, nearly 4 years later we have the following to show:

- Jak
- Keldon (raps FRP)
- Young
- Aminu (waived)
- Bulls 2025 protected FRP (top 10 first year, top 8 2026/27, else SRP 2028)
- Detroit 2022 SRP via Bulls
- Bulls 2025 SRP

I feel like getting flammed today so i’ll give my opinion… this is all hindsight but PATFO should not he proud of that haul as it stands now. It’s my opinion:

- Danny Green and ~5mm cash were worth a late FRP alone
- The 2 SRPs from Chicago are fair compensation for eating Aminu’s last year
- Keldon could have been drafted at #19 in place of taking a flier on Luka
- There is a material chance we get nothing for Thad and he is bought out

So in my mind we received Jak, an opportunity to take a flier on Luka and whatever we get from Thad for what was arguably best player in the NBA. I realize Kawhi made the situation extremely difficult, his health was a concern and he was going to trade at a discount regardless but stubborn PATFO made this harder on themselves from the jump. Even DDR could have been moved earlier for a better return. If Thad is bought out we really ended up with Jak for Kawhi.

We have had some bad breaks the last few years but also some self inflicted pain. Okay done being an arm chair QB. #FlameSuitOn

[exstatic]

We gave up Kawhi, Danny Green and ~5mm and as it stands now, nearly 4 years later we have the following to show:

- Jak
- Keldon (raps FRP)
- Young
- Aminu (waived)
- Bulls 2025 protected FRP (top 10 first year, top 8 2026/27, else SRP 2028)
- Detroit 2022 SRP via Bulls
- Bulls 2025 SRP

+Lakers 2022 SRP

[Chinook]

We gave up Kawhi, Danny Green and ~5mm and as it stands now, nearly 4 years later we have the following to show:

- Jak
- Keldon (raps FRP)
- Young
- Aminu (waived)
- Bulls 2025 protected FRP (top 10 first year, top 8 2026/27, else SRP 2028)
- Detroit 2022 SRP via Bulls
- Bulls 2025 SRP


+Lakers 2022 SRP

No. It's JUST the Lakers 22 second. The Detroit pick is what the Spurs got for sending Milutinov's rights and taking Hutch back. That has nothing to do with the Kawhi/DeRozan deal. The Bulls didn't own the Detroit pick (or rather they didn't own the better of the DET and CHI picks since it's still technically possible that the Bulls finish behind the Pistons) -- Washington did.

[Atl Spur]

That Detroit second round pick may be gold this year!!!!

[exstatic]

No. It's JUST the Lakers 22 second. The Detroit pick is what the Spurs got for sending Milutinov's rights and taking Hutch back. That has nothing to do with the Kawhi/DeRozan deal. The Bulls didn't own the Detroit pick (or rather they didn't own the better of the DET and CHI picks since it's still technically possible that the Bulls finish behind the Pistons) -- Washington did.

No, it’s the Lakers SRP and the Chicago 2025 SRP, in addition to the protected CHI FRP that goes on the clock in 2025. Only the (likely) Detroit SRP conveyed in the 5 team trade with WSH and the LAL, centered around Westbrook.

You made me look it up, so I did. It’s even been updated with the forfeited tampering picks.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

[exstatic]

That Detroit second round pick may be gold this year!!!!

Yeah, this is a deep draft, so that could be like a late first, with different contract options. Not bad for renting $4M in cap space for a year.

[KingKev]

No, it’s the Lakers SRP and the Chicago 2025 SRP, in addition to the protected CHI FRP that goes on the clock in 2025. Only the (likely) Detroit SRP conveyed in the 5 team trade with WSH and the LAL, centered around Westbrook.

You made me look it up, so I did. It’s even been updated with the forfeited tampering picks.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Thanks for the clarification sir.

[Chinook]

No, it’s the Lakers SRP and the Chicago 2025 SRP, in addition to the protected CHI FRP that goes on the clock in 2025. Only the (likely) Detroit SRP conveyed in the 5 team trade with WSH and the LAL, centered around Westbrook.

You made me look it up, so I did. It’s even been updated with the forfeited tampering picks.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

No, it's JUST the Lakers pick, not the Lakers pick and Pistons pick. You should've seen that from looking it up. Chicago didn't own their own pick, as I said. That pick belongs to Sacramento. I wasn't talking at all about the the 2025 Bulls picks, hence me highlighting the Pistons pick.

[Chinook]

And to clarify before Ex cartwheels in here claiming that he caught me in something, I've talked about the Chicago first and second from 2025 numerous times in this thread, including:


Yeah. This deal in a vacuum to fill out the roster is fine, probably even good. This deal after Collins and McDermott is abysmal. If this pick is something like lotto in 25 and 26 then a 28 second if not conveyed, this deal will be horrible. Who cares about the worse of SAC/CHI/LAL second next year and a 2025 Chicago second isn't carrying the day for me.

I knew about those picks. I was clarifying that the good second the Spurs got (the one from Detroit) wasn't a part of the DeRozan deal, so KK mentioning it was wrong. Then you adding the Lakers pick to that list was wrong, not because the Lakers pick wasn't part of the deal (it was), but because the list was already wrong. Also, technically, the pick is the better of the CHI/DET picks and not the Pistons pick outright. Sacramento owns the worse of the picks. So the Spurs could still get Chicago's second-rounder if they fall apart and finish behind Detroit. It's not likely at all, but if that were to happen, the Spurs would at least have that. The tampering punishment doesn't affect that, because the Bulls no longer control their pick anyway. The Spurs will get one, and the Kings will get the other, barring a trade.

[KingKev]

We might be docked an SRP if DDR doesn’t shhhh…

https://airalamo.com/posts/san-antonio-spurs-rumors-demar-derozan-tampering-los-angeles-lakers/amp

[exstatic]

And to clarify before Ex cartwheels in here claiming that he caught me in something, I've talked about the Chicago first and second from 2025 numerous times in this thread, including:



I knew about those picks. I was clarifying that the good second the Spurs got (the one from Detroit) wasn't a part of the DeRozan deal, so KK mentioning it was wrong. Then you adding the Lakers pick to that list was wrong, not because the Lakers pick wasn't part of the deal (it was), but because the list was already wrong. Also, technically, the pick is the better of the CHI/DET picks and not the Pistons pick outright. Sacramento owns the worse of the picks. So the Spurs could still get Chicago's second-rounder if they fall apart and finish behind Detroit. It's not likely at all, but if that were to happen, the Spurs would at least have that. The tampering punishment doesn't affect that, because the Bulls no longer control their pick anyway. The Spurs will get one, and the Kings will get the other, barring a trade.

Nice walk back.:lol

Let’s see if we can agree on a list, as opposed to paragraphs of words.

DeRozan trade picks
2022 LAL SRP
2025 CHI SRP
2025 or later CHI FRP that conveys as a 2028 SRP if we don’t get the FRP by 2027. Protections 1-10,1-8,1-8

Pick from 5 team Westbrook trade for accepting the Hutchison contract.
Better of Detroit’s or Chicago’s 2022 SRPs, with the worse going to Sacto.

Don’t even ask about the SRP swap with Indy for McD. The incoming/outgoing 2023 SRPs likely won’t convey (>55), but we will get one of 3 2026 SRPs on the table, I think the better of ours, vs. the worse of Miami and Indy. I hate pick swaps with more than 2 teams.

[Degoat]

We might be docked an SRP if DDR doesn’t shhhh…

https://airalamo.com/posts/san-antonio-spurs-rumors-demar-derozan-tampering-los-angeles-lakers/amp

What’s such a slippery slope with the tampering stuff, is aren’t the spurs allowed to speak with demars agent anytime they wanted to since he played for the team? And what’s to stop demars agent from reaching out to the lakers to gauge interest just to report back to Demar or the spurs potentially. With that there’s no player to organization contact

[Chinook]

Nice walk back.:lol

Let’s see if we can agree on a list, as opposed to paragraphs of words.

DeRozan trade picks
2022 LAL SRP
2025 CHI SRP
2025 or later CHI FRP that conveys as a 2028 SRP if we don’t get the FRP by 2027. Protections 1-10,1-8,1-8

Pick from 5 team Westbrook trade for accepting the Hutchison contract.
Better of Detroit’s or Chicago’s 2022 SRPs, with the worse going to Sacto.

Don’t even ask about the SRP swap with Indy for McD. The incoming/outgoing 2023 SRPs likely won’t convey (>55), but we will get one of 3 2026 SRPs on the table, I think the better of ours, vs. the worse of Miami and Indy. I hate pick swaps with more than 2 teams.

:lol Yeah, that's about the size of it. I think there was initially some misunderstanding about the LAL pick, since it was conditional as well. From what I read, it used to be that Washington had the extra option to swap the LAL pick for the better of the DET/CHI pick, so during the very early days/hours of the DMDR trade getting announced, there was a chance the Spurs wouldn't receive LAL's pick if they somehow finished worse than Detroit and the Bulls. But after the Hutch trade, the Spurs have both, and there's no need to swap. The Spurs have the Lakers' pick outright, and they can trade it without conditions if they so want. I wanted to make that clear, because I know I hadn't realized the conditions were gone until a month or so ago.

[exstatic]

We might be docked an SRP if DDR doesn’t shhhh…

https://airalamo.com/posts/san-antonio-spurs-rumors-demar-derozan-tampering-los-angeles-lakers/amp

It’s only tampering if the receiving team does it. As a trading team, you can actually give your player permission to talk to other teams, making tampering moot.

[KingKev]

It’s only tampering if the receiving team does it. As a trading team, you can actually give your player permission to talk to other teams, making tampering moot.

Fair point and I guess non playoff teams are actually allowed to transact once eliminated if I recall correctly so bit of a grey area.

[Chinook]

We might be docked an SRP if DDR doesn’t shhhh…

https://airalamo.com/posts/san-antonio-spurs-rumors-demar-derozan-tampering-los-angeles-lakers/amp

I think Windhorst is twisting DeRozan's words trying to read between them. DeMar never says the Spurs were engaged in an S&T. He says he and Lebron talked it out and agreed on it. My guess is that the Spurs and DeRozan likely did talk about S&T possibility as part of "extension" talks (which were legal until the moratorium even though re-signing talks are not). He knew the Spurs would be willing to deal him if they could get back a good deal, and so his agent solicited offers. He got the general idea that LAL wanted DeRozan, but when that fell through, he started gauging Chicago's interest. None of that is illegal either. Clearly based on everything reported, there wasn't any handshake agreement in place between the Spurs and Bulls before the moratorium, and the Westbrook trade makes it pretty obvious there wasn't one with LAL either.

Windhorst is just trying to drum up controversy by acting like it's the same thing, but without even knowing whom the Spurs would have wanted the Lakers to draft with their first, there's little proof. Unlike Washington (or eventually Indiana), the Spurs were never going to be able to make that pick directly, so they would have had to tell LAL whom they wanted. The Spurs didn't seem to covet anyone in that range enough to get a pick some other way, and given how cheaply those picks were being sold for, they definitely could have gotten one. Of course, you could stir the pot and say that they wanted Primo with that pick and just pulled a Masai and overdrafted him once they knew they didn't have the later pick, but there's too much evidence against that too.

[Chinook]

It’s only tampering if the receiving team does it. As a trading team, you can actually give your player permission to talk to other teams, making tampering moot.

Yeah, that's sort of a way to look at it:


The Kings were not penalized for their role in this situation because it is legal to discuss potential trades with opposing teams, even if they involve restricted free agents. Where Milwaukee stepped out of bounds was when they contacted Bogdanovic’s agent, Jason Rainey, and initiated contract discussions.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/nba-explains-why-bucks-not-213329188.html

Basically there's nothing wrong with an agent asking the Spurs what they'd want in a DeRozan deal. I didn't know and don't really know if I agree with the part I quoted, but if true, the Spurs could have then asked LAL if they were willing to give up whatever for DeRozan. The reason why the trade couldn't be announced during the draft, is because the Lakers and DeRozan would have to agree to a deal to secure an S&T, and they can't do that without contacting him. The contact would constitute tampering, not the trade talks. From everything we've heard, the Lakers and DeRozan did not speak. As I said, I don't know that I'm willing to ride all the way with the Yahoo article on trade discussions including S&Ts during the draft. But if true, the DeRozan talks were clearly legal, and Windhorst should be embarrassed for reporting something he should know is false.

[KingKev]

I’d argue everyone team in the league bends the rules behind closed doors. The Spurs are no different. The amount of deals that are agreed upon within minutes of the usual July 1 free agency frenzy is evidence enough. I seem
to recall a pretty not so hush hush arrangement with Derek Anderson and the Spurs in the early 00s. Sign here on a 1 year mid-level and will make it up the next year when we have cap space.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

If the Lakers continue to bomb and Chicago continues to play well, I wonder if we’ll openly hear LeBron provide one of his cryptic messages criticizing the Lakers FO for not following through with DeRozan. Seems like they were trying to short change Demar at the time, IIRC.

[exstatic]

I’m glad Demar is gone, but what’s frustrating to me is fans and media bought this narrative that Demar wasn’t good which again made his trade value crap

His trade value was crappy because he was an unrestricted free agent.

[Chinook]

I believe the Spurs would have traded DeRozan last off-season (meaning 2020) had they gotten offers of decent expirings, a first and a second. I definitely believe DeRozan was underrated by the media. Many folks on ST were among them, and their cognitive dissonance is sparking like mad seeing him play well on a better team.

[daslicer]

I believe the Spurs would have traded DeRozan last off-season (meaning 2020) had they gotten offers of decent expirings, a first and a second. I definitely believe DeRozan was underrated by the media. Many folks on ST were among them, and their cognitive dissonance is sparking like mad seeing him play well on a better team.

Derozan suffered from what I call the Pop effect. Every time a Spurs player outside of the big 3 has any success they are not taken seriously because the media and casual fans will say "This guy is only good because of Pop's coaching and system but if he was on any other team he wouldn't be that good." I heard this even last night when the Warrior commentators kept on giving credit to Pop throughout the game but not any of the Spurs players. This is what happened with Kawhi when he was here. This is also what happened with Derozan when he was here with the Spurs the last few years. He was still an all-star but wasn't acknowledged as one due to playing with Pop. This affected his trade value since he was perceived as a system player.

[Down Under]

Almost every journo who reported on DD while he was here said the trade value for him was Zero. After his on/off numbers being bad across 2 different teams, it seems his shot creation became undervalued. Pairing him with what turns out to be the best perimeter defender in the league as well as another excellent defender in Lonzo, has really maximised his game.

[lmbebo]

If the Lakers continue to bomb and Chicago continues to play well, I wonder if we’ll openly hear LeBron provide one of his cryptic messages criticizing the Lakers FO for not following through with DeRozan. Seems like they were trying to short change Demar at the time, IIRC.


Sounds like they want to start tampering charges from some article I saw the other day. That the Spurs tampered and thats the reason he's not a Laker.

[exstatic]

Sounds like they want to start tampering charges from some article I saw the other day. That the Spurs tampered and thats the reason he's not a Laker.

Uh, no. The deal was in place, until Westchuck became available. The Lakers were the ones that bailed. SA then pivoted to Chicago.

[RC_Drunkford]

It’s no surprise that he’s a perfect fit for the Bulls. In order to maximize DeRozan he needs to play with 4 outside shooters. That was never the case with the Spurs, but it is on the Bulls. Besides that he got some good defenders around him and he doesn’t have to be the #1 option with LaVine on the team. Perfect situation for him

[lmbebo]

Uh, no. The deal was in place, until Westchuck became available. The Lakers were the ones that bailed. SA then pivoted to Chicago.

Not arguing it, but this article? was quoting Windhorst which tried to implicate the Spurs as tampering. And that's the reason DDR didn't end up with the LAL

[KingKev]

Almost every journo who reported on DD while he was here said the trade value for him was Zero. After his on/off numbers being bad across 2 different teams, it seems his shot creation became undervalued. Pairing him with what turns out to be the best perimeter defender in the league as well as another excellent defender in Lonzo, has really maximised his game.

Who is the best perimeter defender in the league?

[exstatic]

Not arguing it, but this article? was quoting Windhorst which tried to implicate the Spurs as tampering. And that's the reason DDR didn't end up with the LAL

Rule one: it’s not possible to tamper with your own player. They can actually give permission to DeMar and his representatives to talk to anyone at any time. Windhorst threw out some clickbait, and you fell for it.

[Dverde]

I’ll never understand wanting Russ Westbrick over DDR. I think DDR would have been great on the Lakers.

[lmbebo]

Rule one: it’s not possible to tamper with your own player. They can actually give permission to DeMar and his representatives to talk to anyone at any time. Windhorst threw out some clickbait, and you fell for it.

Didn't fall for it... just regurgitating horse crap

[gilmor2002]

Almost every journo who reported on DD while he was here said the trade value for him was Zero. After his on/off numbers being bad across 2 different teams, it seems his shot creation became undervalued. Pairing him with what turns out to be the best perimeter defender in the league as well as another excellent defender in Lonzo, has really maximised his game.

It is not sustainable because that best perimeter defender will be injured; I think Spurs is still better off without him and left with the young core.

[XDT76]

The only complain i have about DDR when he is on the Spurs is that when it is crunch time he just goes tunnel vision and left all his playmaking skillset on the bench. It's so easy to plan against us in those situation don't bite on fake and his effectiveness drops drastically. He also don't shoot 3 so just slag off him to deny him path to rim and invite him to shoot his mids. The other team just counter with 3s or slashing to rms which are much more efficient shots.

[KingKev]

It is not sustainable because that best perimeter defender will be injured; I think Spurs is still better off without him and left with the young core.

I’m genuinely confused, who are you guys referring to as the best perimeter defender on the Bulls?

[playbonner15]

I’m genuinely confused, who are you guys referring to as the best perimeter defender on the Bulls?

Ernie's son

[KingKev]

Ernie's son

huh?

[slick'81]

I didn't like the trade then,and i still dont now. That potential future first is the only thing saving this deal. Hopefully those 2nd's can get spurs back into rnd1 of the draft

[exstatic]

I didn't like the trade then,and i still dont now. That potential future first is the only thing saving this deal. Hopefully those 2nd's can get spurs back into rnd1 of the draft

How can you dislike a trade that returns ANYTHING for an unrestricted FA?

[K...]

How can you dislike a trade that returns ANYTHING for an unrestricted FA?

I was going to respond but if you consider thad is dead money ( he's not) and can imagine the spurs getting more with the cap space (dumb speculation) you could criticize the deal. Or maybe he really wanted derozan resigned.

[Dverde]

https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1467985601249132554

Yikes I hope he’s okay.

[spurraider21]

dont think anybody denied Derozan was a talented offensive player. he was the engine of the offense since he got here.

the problem is his game has some glaring limitations. aside from being a non-factor on defense, his reluctance to take outside shots was always something of a problem at made it a challenge to build a consistently functioning offense around. with LMA's decline with the Spurs (and ultimate replacement by Poeltl), that hurt the spacing already. DeJounte, while himself a limited player, kept improving to the point where it was hard to keep him off the court. then we saw some similar things with Keldon emerging.

imo the spurs had 2 options, hit the reset button, give off some of the aforementioned younger assets, and rebuild anew around derozan (32 years old, big money, and fairly obvious capped ceiling given his defensive liabilities), or move on from Derozan, have Murray/White/Poeltl take on bigger roles, and replace his spot in the lineup with somebody who can blend with those guys better (Vassell, and in the shorter term, McDermott)

easy call to move on from derozan

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/kingjames/status/1466153497225617410?s=21

DeMar retweeted this stupid shit. Dumbass athletes

[KingKev]

https://twitter.com/kingjames/status/1466153497225617410?s=21

DeMar retweeted this stupid shit. Dumbass athletes

What do you think it’s about?

[Dejounte]

What do you think it’s about?

LeBron tweeted that when he went out for CoVID protocol. So it’s likely some conspiracy bullshit.

[KingKev]

LeBron tweeted that when he went out for CoVID protocol. So it’s likely some conspiracy bullshit.

Haha yeah especially with those two bozos.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

LeBron tweeted that when he went out for CoVID protocol. So it’s likely some conspiracy bullshit.

Lebron tweeted that because he didn’t get a second COVID-19 test after initially having the positive test, like he was supposed to.

LeBron ended up not missing any games due to COVID-19 because he had 3 negative test in a row after tweeting that. So his tweet ended up not being so dumb after all……

In layman’s terms, LeBron was saying that whoever gave the initial test wasn’t following protocol with giving follow up test and that’s fishy or strange

[KingKev]

Lebron tweeted that because he didn’t get a second COVID-19 test after initially having the positive test, like he was supposed to.

LeBron ended up not missing any games due to COVID-19 because he had 3 negative test in a row after tweeting that. So his tweet ended up not being so dumb after all……

In layman’s terms, LeBron was saying that whoever gave the initial test wasn’t following protocol with giving follow up test and that’s fishy or strange

Thanks for the clarification

[DeRozan m8]

DDR is good enough to be a 3 on a championship team, and arguably a two. But he isn't good enough to take a lottery team and turn them into a contender. Only a few players in the league can do that, like Luka or Durrant or Lebron. He's not a number one so while he made the Spurs competitive, he could not make them a playoff level team without more all-star talent. When he had LMA in all-star form, they were a playoff team.

Lebron can't...how did he go on the Lakers without AD?

How many chips before colluding with other hall of famers?

Dudes always needed a 1b by his side and a bunch of luck (bailout shots, mickey mouse bubble) to achieve anything meaningful.

Manufactured, beta and nothing but the king of empty stat padding

[tbdog]

Lebron can't...how did he go on the Lakers without AD?

How many chips before colluding with other hall of famers?

Dudes always needed a 1b by his side and a bunch of luck (bailout shots, mickey mouse bubble) to achieve anything meaningful.

Manufactured, beta and nothing but the king of empty stat padding

Lebron 07 is an example. Also Lebron last cavs team , took a pretty ordinary team to the finals and played the best game I've seen a player play, before JR Smith became a retard.

[talkspurs]

Lebron 07 is an example. Also Lebron last cavs team , took a pretty ordinary team to the finals and played the best game I've seen a player play, before JR Smith became a retard.

07 is used by a few people but he still had Big z on the team which was 2 years I think removed from an All star. Larry hughes was also thought to be a good player. The east was also very weak that year. only competition was Detroit.

[KingKev]

07 is used by a few people but he still had Big z on the team which was 2 years I think removed from an All star. Larry hughes was also thought to be a good player. The east was also very weak that year. only competition was Detroit.

haha dude Big Z and Larry Hughes is reaching.

[John B]

haha dude Big Z and Larry Hughes is reaching.

And Spurs swept them :lol

[talkspurs]

haha dude Big Z and Larry Hughes is reaching.

He was not bad back then. that is how weak the east was. you did not have 1 25-30 pt scorer and 2 15-20 point scorer back then. He was good on defense and scoring was a lot lower.

[Fusternino]

2009-10 Cavs are also underrated. Antwan Jamison and Shaq still had a lot left at that point.

[John B]

Demar with 19 points in the 4th quarter to finish 38 pts in the game to beat the Lakers 115 - 110, amidst M-V-P chants :lol

https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1472771094822150145?s=21 (https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1472771094822150145?s=21)

[duncan2k5]

Demar with 19 points in the 4th quarter to finish 38 pts in the game to beat the Lakers 115 - 110, amidst M-V-P chants :lol

https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1472771094822150145?s=21 (https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1472771094822150145?s=21)

Good for him... His past 2 years here he ended up in the lottery and lost us numerous games with his choking... All his years in Toronto was known by him choking in the playoffs... Only for them to win immediately after trading him... I'm not gonna overreact to a game in December while he is on a team that would have still been good if he wasn't on it

[exstatic]

Demar with 19 points in the 4th quarter to finish 38 pts in the game to beat the Lakers 115 - 110, amidst M-V-P chants :lol

https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1472771094822150145?s=21 (https://twitter.com/stephnoh/status/1472771094822150145?s=21)

Lakers are kind of everyone’s bitch right now. That SRP we got in trade is looking better and better. Last I looked, it was 50 and rising.

LeBron is officially old.

[KingKev]

Lakers are kind of everyone’s bitch right now. That SRP we got in trade is looking better and better. Last I looked, it was 50 and rising.

LeBron is officially old.

Possible top 5 lotto pick plus the 31st and 48th as it stands now. Those two SRPs in this year's draft might come in handy in a trade.

[BatManu20]

DeMar with one of the coldest, most nonchalant game-winners in recent memory. This man is killing it for Chicago.


1477046510865063940

[Degoat]

That was straight Fire! Demar shitting on all his doubters

[buttsR4rebounding]

Announcer called him “Mr. 4th Quarter”. Evidently set up the game winner with a defensive play.

[buttsR4rebounding]

That was straight Fire! Demar shitting on all his doubters

Luka will be next.

[Robz4000]

:lol it was a three pointer to boot. You couldn't beg him to shoot a three in SA.

[timtonymanu]

Nice shot. But again, wake me up when he does this in the playoffs.

[Dverde]

I think the Spurs really helped Demar conquer some of those playoff demons. He used to be scared to take shots like that. Happy for him. Class guy, just not the right fit and he was smart to move on.

[PhantomDashCam]

I think the Spurs really helped Demar conquer some of those playoff demons. He used to be scared to take shots like that. Happy for him. Class guy, just not the right fit and he was smart to move on.

Time will tell but thrilled he’s doing well. Both teams benefited from this trade with the Spurs playing the long game and Chi-Town and it’s window (if it can be called that), slightly ajar requiring immediate ROI.

[John B]

Demar is a serious candidate for MVP.

[tbdog]

He had plenty of winners for us. But ST only remembered his misses. It was a pleasure watching him play for the spurs.

[John B]

It could’ve gone either way. Bulls only needed 2pts to win with 6secs left. He could’ve went for his patented drive and pump for the foul, but he chose the one-legged 3pt shot. If he missed, this ST would be laughing that he “choked,” yet once again. I’m glad he trusted his shot and it went in. I always want to drive to the basket in that situation and force the foul. But either way, I was happy for Demar, yet again getting the love. It’s good for his career in the long run if it continues, climaxing in high notes, winning instead of getting pastured in mediocrity had he gone to the Lakers and it didn’t work. It would’ve been a totally different outcome for his image being in the shadow of LeBron and losing if they did. Good choice to be the “head of the snake” in Chicago and winning imo.

[exstatic]

Luka will be next.

Please. Luka will be back in Europe next year.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

He had plenty of winners for us. But ST only remembered his misses. It was a pleasure watching him play for the spurs.

EXACTLY

not to mention last season he was one of the top clutch scorers (last few minutes of the 4th quarter) in the entire NBA

dude was a good player for us, even with his short comings he overall played well, while in San Antonio. Our roster just wasn’t as good as Chicago’s roster is now.

[Barfunk]

He had plenty of winners for us. But ST only remembered his misses. It was a pleasure watching him play for the spurs.

Agreed. He was all class when he played for us, and many shat all over him unfortunately. I'd love to see Demar grab a chip to put on his resume.

[daslicer]

Spurs didn't have a good team around Demar and that is one of the reasons why he wasn't successful here. Bulls have Lavine and Vucevic who are both playing at an all-star level which helps out Demar tremendously. I wish him the best even though I was never a fan of his while he was here. I wouldn't be upset if he won the MVP or a title in Chicago.

[Joseph Kony]

can't wait for this thread to get bumped after Demar goes 5-28 in a closeout playoff game and the Bulls lose :lol

[Barfunk]

can't wait for this thread to get bumped after Demar goes 5-28 in a closeout playoff game and the Bulls lose :lol

Yeah, I'm just rooting for the guy, but I get the criticisms. Lol, that's pretty funny though.

[Mugen]

Good for Demar tbh. Always glad to see another instance of somebody flourishing outside of the Spurs organization tbh :lol

He'll shit the bed come playoff time as always but he was a pro during his entire time here.

[TD 21]

^ Don't believe the hype. Same caliber player as he was here, just reverted to more scorer than play maker since they actually have other established players who can create off the dribble and space the floor for him.

Funny how he vacillated between ignored and punch line when he was here, but he was beloved before and is again after.

[Dejounte]

People are prisoners of the moment. Some teams have players who form instant chemistry, other teams take a while to get rolling. The former sometimes crash and burn. Time will tell if the Bulls are that. I can say with confidence that the Bulls don’t have the pieces to go all the way, and it will be challenging for them to raise their ceiling unless they trade one of their big three. It’s going to take more than clutch shots in regular season games to change his long lasting legacy. People can talk all day about his short term success and act as if he as a player is an impactful winning one, but the cycle will likely continue of him as a player who will not take your team to the top if he’s one of the guys leading it.

*yawn* Bump this post when the season ends.

[spurraider21]

spurs franchise was going nowhere with demar, talented on offense as he is

the trade was a no brainer. imaging giving him a long term deal :lmao

[tbdog]

DDR just hit another 3 pointer to win.

[RC_Drunkford]

Damn man, DeMar is going off!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYbZ0NrkX0E

Spurs just didn't have the right team around him. He needs to be surrounded by perimeter defenders and 3-point shooters, including a stretch big. Chicago is the perfect fit for his skillset. I'm happy seeing him succeed there. Those clutch buckets are something else tho, I haven't seen him shoot clutch 3s like that ever before

[tbdog]

ST wanted him gone. He was an addition from subtraction they said. The team would be better without him, they said. Yet he has become a legit mvp candidate. Bulls are 1st in the east while spurs 11th on the west.

[Dejounte]

ST wanted him gone. He was an addition from subtraction they said. The team would be better without him, they said. Yet he has become a legit mvp candidate. Bulls are 1st in the east while spurs 11th on the west.

Good riddance :lmao come back here when we’re past all these meaningless regular season wins.

[tbdog]

Good riddance :lmao come back here when we’re past all these meaningless regular season wins.

When the spurs are playing?

[daslicer]

ST wanted him gone. He was an addition from subtraction they said. The team would be better without him, they said. Yet he has become a legit mvp candidate. Bulls are 1st in the east while spurs 11th on the west.

Spurs current team wouldn't have brought out his strengths like the Bulls roster has. Vucevic and Lavine are currently better than any player on this current Spurs roster. With Demar this current team probably has a good chance at the 8th seed and nothing else. This break up was good for both parties since they couldn't succeed together.

[Dejounte]

When the spurs are playing?

When DeMar shows us how much of a playoff choker he is like he has his entire career. Keep being enamored by DeMar who is destined to have a Joe Johnson-esque career.

[tbdog]

Good riddance :lmao come back here when we’re past all these meaningless regular season wins.

Oh and btw, the last time DDR played in the playoffs in 2019, he avg 22, 6.7r, 4.6a. His TS% was better than jokic.

[Dejounte]

Oh and btw, the last time DDR played in the playoffs in 2019, he avg 22, 6.7r, 4.6a. His TS% was better than jokic.

Nice numbers, still a loser when it counts.

[tbdog]

Spurs current team wouldn't have brought out his strengths like the Bulls roster has. Vucevic and Lavine are currently better than any player on this current Spurs roster. With Demar this current team probably has a good chance at the 8th seed and nothing else. This break up was good for both parties since they couldn't succeed together.

That is not what ST was saying. They thought Spurs would be better without DDR.

[tbdog]

Nice numbers, still a loser when it counts.

Against the 2nd seed.

[tbdog]

Yes, in fact I believe they can be the 6th seed barring injuries. With the development of vassell and Walker and white handling the ball more I’m super excited to see what the young guys got.

[Dejounte]

That is not what ST was saying. They thought Spurs would be better without DDR.

Super convenient of you to post like this now and not before COVID started taking away Spurs players. Where were you a couple weeks ago?

[tbdog]

Super convenient of you to post like this now and not before COVID started taking away Spurs players. Where were you a couple weeks ago?

When the spurs were tied in the 10th seed? I was still here.

[timtonymanu]

Spurs would be winning the same amount of games if Demar was still here :lol.

[Arcadian]

Game-winning 3 on back to back games :tu

[daslicer]

^ Don't believe the hype. Same caliber player as he was here, just reverted to more scorer than play maker since they actually have other established players who can create off the dribble and space the floor for him.

Funny how he vacillated between ignored and punch line when he was here, but he was beloved before and is again after.

It's the Popovich effect. Any player that does well with the Spurs will not be given credit and the credit will go to Pop. I still remember watching the Warriors game and hearing their announcers praise Pop for the win but not give Dejounte Murray any credit for his great play. You don't see announcers say that about other teams when they win considering the praise always goes to the players.

[Dejounte]

When the spurs were tied in the 10th seed? I was still here.

Nah, you were quiet as hell when DJ and White were starting to lead the team. Now you’re all vocal when COVID wiped out the momentum of the team and after DeMar hit a couple clutch shots in meaningless games. Go root for your boy DeMar til the end, it will surely be worth it. :lmao what a pointless pursuit to root for a guy who is no longer a Spur and continue to post on a Spurs board.

[florige]

:lol it was a three pointer to boot. You couldn't beg him to shoot a three in SA.


That’s what has me scratching my head. I used to yell at the TV for that fool to please take the open 3 instead of dribbling inside the line into a defender and a harder shot. Now this clown is shooting 3’s like he’s done it his entire career now that he’s in Chicago

[tbdog]

Nah, you were quiet as hell when DJ and White were starting to lead the team. Now you’re all vocal when COVID wiped out the momentum of the team and after DeMar hit a couple clutch shots in meaningless games. Go root for your boy DeMar til the end, it will surely be worth it. :lmao what a pointless pursuit to root for a guy who is no longer a Spur and continue to post on a Spurs board.

I'm not rooting for any other team, never have. I'm calling out the retarded thought process on ST comments about DDR.

And I'm still not on the white/Murray train. Their 7w 5l record in December together, the one your referring too. They shooting 33% from 3. And overall on the season 32% from 3. I said very clearly that backcourt won't work. It must be split up.

[8sy21vd]

Always said he was an amazing offensive talent but it was better for both sides to move one. This organization seems stuck in neutral with Pop and whomever is in the FO making decisions. If you can't put a talented and balanced team together, the team won't be having too much success. Demar deserves some blame as the star, but the situation in SA has been going downhill since TD retired (Poor FO decisions, bad luck, and poor coaching).

With all that being said, Demar was on the top of the east with TOR for a couple years and flamed out in the POs. I'd still favor the Nets and Bucks over them but we'll see in the POs.

[BackHome]

Glad for Derozz he was a true professional when he was in SA no crying no demanding trades etc. I wish him and his family the best of 2022 and hope he gets a ring with Chicago

[daslicer]

Always said he was an amazing offensive talent but it was better for both sides to move one. This organization seems stuck in neutral with Pop and whomever is in the FO making decisions. If you can't put a talented and balanced team together, the team won't be having too much success. Demar deserves some blame as the star, but the situation in SA has been going downhill since TD retired (Poor FO decisions, bad luck, and poor coaching).

With all that being said, Demar was on the top of the east with TOR for a couple years and flamed out in the POs. I'd still favor the Nets and Bucks over them but we'll see in the POs.

Spur's roster construction around Demar was terrible. Demar is a very good basketball player but he's not a Durant, Prime Lebron type of player where he can win 50 or more games with even a crappy roster. He needs help and if you put together a decent roster then you can win a lot of games with him like what happened in Toronto. The Spurs roster had a bunch of defensive holes on the perimeter that couldn't cover up for his bad D. He also had no offensive help on the perimeter that he was forced to be a playmaker just to create offense. Once Lamarcus fell off the roster went from average to mediocre.

[lefty]

Damn man, DeMar is going off!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYbZ0NrkX0E

Spurs just didn't have the right team around him. He needs to be surrounded by perimeter defenders and 3-point shooters, including a stretch big. Chicago is the perfect fit for his skillset. I'm happy seeing him succeed there. Those clutch buckets are something else tho, I haven't seen him shoot clutch 3s like that ever before

[CapitalEmm]

Dude is fools gold. Wait until playoffs when he causes the offense to stagnate due to lack of ball movement and then chokes in iso.

[spurs1990]

I'm as anti DeRozan as it gets but back to back game winners. Down 2. With a 3pt. I've never seen that in 30 years watching pro ball

[Fusternino]

DDR is a fine player, the issue is just (and has been) Pop thinks he has to play a guard-heavy (DDR ends up at the 4) lineup in order to have some shooting but this just ends up untenable due to lack of defense. If the team swapped out old Rudy Gay for 3 young Rudy Gays then they're a top 4 seed. To to this day, the team continues to lack at the 3, 3/4, and 4 positions. Bringing back Forbes and Eubanks over Aminu and Samanic, however scrubby they are, was always a mistake and DDR as others said would struggle just to get this team to the playoffs.

[Ice009]

I didn't hate Demar, but I never loved him when he was here as I just couldn't get over how he played in the big games (even before he came to the Spurs, I saw that he didn't rise to the occasion in the playoffs in some must win games. The play-in games for the Spurs solidified my stance on him as a playoff performer). I am too used to guys like Tim and Manu and even TP who step it up in the biggest games and have some of their best games in the playoffs. I don't care that Demar averaged more than Manu points per game wise. I care more that Manu was awesome in the higher pressure games and usually came through more often than not in those games. I didn't care that Horry was average in the regular season, as you could count on him in the playoffs, or high pressure games (I really did like him on all teams he was on, so that is why I was upset about his TD comments). Manu and even Horry to a lesser extent (as he wasn't as good as Manu on offense), they both competed in the biggest games even if they were having a bad game. Can't say the same for Demar. I wish him well I suppose, as he is a great guy. I hope he can do something for once in the playoffs and prove me wrong this time and lead a team to at least the ECF or Finals. I'd be happy for him if he did. He's on a team in position to do something this season in the playoffs. If they don't, and he and the team are relatively healthy in the playoffs, a lot of it will fall on him (both the good or bad).

[BatManu20]

I'm as anti DeRozan as it gets but back to back game winners. Down 2. With a 3pt. I've never seen that in 30 years watching pro ball

1477481321391874048

[DJR210]

I'm happy for DeMar, and even for Chicago fans.. but still glad the Spurs moved on

[John B]

Spurs current team wouldn't have brought out his strengths like the Bulls roster has. Vucevic and Lavine are currently better than any player on this current Spurs roster. With Demar this current team probably has a good chance at the 8th seed and nothing else. This break up was good for both parties since they couldn't succeed together.

Heck Caruso would be Spurs 2nd best player right now

[daslicer]

Heck Caruso would be Spurs 2nd best player right now

I wouldn't go that far but he would definitely be getting minutes over Forbes.

[John B]

I wouldn't go that far but he would definitely be getting minutes over Forbes.

I’m sorry but Caruso has more dog than any of Spurs player except for DJM.
White has better skills but so complacent imo
Keldon is one-dimensional
Vassell is still too young and lacks the killer insticts, so far
Poeltl is overrated especially against capable bigs, then he folds
So who else is better?

[Fusternino]

2 3PT attempts per game at 37%.

Bunch of haters, LOL.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Genuinely happy for DDR.

All of these can be true at the same time:
1. He’s a very good player
2. He’s not a first option on a championship team
3. The Spurs are worse without him
4. Him leaving was a good long term decision for all parties

It’s OK to praise him when he’s playing so well and not be bitter about it and cite his playoff shortcomings. He’s a good dude too.

[duncan2k5]

When the spurs were tied in the 10th seed? I was still here.

Wait... U do realize we went to the lottery in back to back years with DeMar, right? We definitely aren't worse... We are at LEAST the same, except with a brighter future now

[spurs1990]

Wait... U do realize we went to the lottery in back to back years with DeMar, right? We definitely aren't worse... We are at LEAST the same, except with a brighter future now

His play with the Bulls is coloring posters memories of that Spurs run. I'm still trying to figure out the 3pt numbers. DeRozan took 74 attempts the entire year with San Antonio. In roughly half the Chicago games, he's at 67 attempts.

Is popovich the one who steered him away from that shot? I think not because we all saw him pass wide open 3s and take a step on the line for 2pt attempts.

In his last 29 Spurs games he made one 3pt shot. ONE. Now's he magically winning games every night with that shot.

[daslicer]

His play with the Bulls is coloring posters memories of that Spurs run. I'm still trying to figure out the 3pt numbers. DeRozan took 74 attempts the entire year with San Antonio. In roughly half the Chicago games, he's at 67 attempts.

Is popovich the one who steered him away from that shot? I think not because we all saw him pass wide open 3s and take a step on the line for 2pt attempts.

In his last 29 Spurs games he made one 3pt shot. ONE. Now's he magically winning games every night with that shot.

I remember hearing him talk about Pop telling him to stay away from the 3-point shot while he was here. Pop wanted to maximize his mid-range game.

[Sugus]

I remember hearing him talk about Pop telling him to stay away from the 3-point shot while he was here. Pop wanted to maximize his mid-range game.

It actually wasn't like that.

DeRozan talked about how, in Toronto, for his last couple years there, there had been a lot of emphasis from coaching and all areas of the team, to get him to expand his game out to the 3pt line (you can go and see his increasing amounts of 3PA while on the Raps, he was taking something like 5-6 3PA his last season there, of course with awful efficiency). And how once he got to SanAn, Pop did the opposite, and just told him to "play his game" without making an emphasis on what that was, and instead focus on helping the team, making plays for others while mixing it up with scoring, etc.

This, given DDR's game, naturally resulted in him not forcing (or taking) 3's. But Pop at no time told him to "stay away from the 3pt line" or anything like that (as far as we know, at least). Of course, you can argue given the modern NBA landscape, this was bad advice or bad coaching, but alas.

Also, people are getting carried in the moment with both his game winners being 3's, which is merely a coincidence (he even said his first game winner was pure luck, since he hadn't realized there was so little time on the clock, and had to throw up a prayer). He's not shooting significantly more 3's than he ever has in his career, nor shooting them particularly more efficiently than he ever did. There's little doubt that he'll regress to his comfort zone come playoff time. The only difference this year is that he might just finally have the team around him to relieve him of "shooting duties" and let him play his game on a spaced-out floor.

Regardless, the trade was perfectly good for both parties, still. I'm glad for DeRozan and hold him no ill-will, but also, good riddance.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Genuinely happy for DDR.

All of these can be true at the same time:
1. He’s a very good player
2. He’s not a first option on a championship team
3. The Spurs are worse without him
4. Him leaving was a good long term decision for all parties

It’s OK to praise him when he’s playing so well and not be bitter about it and cite his playoff shortcomings. He’s a good dude too.

EXACTLY!!!!!

The Bulls have better and more complementary parts around Demar than we did when he was here. Not to mention he is playing with two other All Star caliber players in their prime. He shouldn’t and will not be expected to fully carry the offensive load for the Bulls in the playoffs just like he hasn’t in the regular season for them.

they should at the very least make it to the second round of the playoffs barring injuries or COVID-19

[spurraider21]

derozan still being here just means vassell would see a lot less playing time

[daslicer]

It actually wasn't like that.

DeRozan talked about how, in Toronto, for his last couple years there, there had been a lot of emphasis from coaching and all areas of the team, to get him to expand his game out to the 3pt line (you can go and see his increasing amounts of 3PA while on the Raps, he was taking something like 5-6 3PA his last season there, of course with awful efficiency). And how once he got to SanAn, Pop did the opposite, and just told him to "play his game" without making an emphasis on what that was, and instead focus on helping the team, making plays for others while mixing it up with scoring, etc.

This, given DDR's game, naturally resulted in him not forcing (or taking) 3's. But Pop at no time told him to "stay away from the 3pt line" or anything like that (as far as we know, at least). Of course, you can argue given the modern NBA landscape, this was bad advice or bad coaching, but alas.

Also, people are getting carried in the moment with both his game winners being 3's, which is merely a coincidence (he even said his first game winner was pure luck, since he hadn't realized there was so little time on the clock, and had to throw up a prayer). He's not shooting significantly more 3's than he ever has in his career, nor shooting them particularly more efficiently than he ever did. There's little doubt that he'll regress to his comfort zone come playoff time. The only difference this year is that he might just finally have the team around him to relieve him of "shooting duties" and let him play his game on a spaced-out floor.

Regardless, the trade was perfectly good for both parties, still. I'm glad for DeRozan and hold him no ill-will, but also, good riddance.

The bottom line is Pop did not tell him to shoot 3's whereas other coaches in the current NBA would have told him that he needs to increase his 3-point attempts.

Also, if you check my other posts thread, I also feel the same way that you do about Derozan leaving. I have stated several times the Spurs were going to go nowhere with him beyond maybe being an 8th seed so there was no point in keeping him.

[Sugus]

The bottom line is Pop did not tell him to shoot 3's whereas other coaches in the current NBA would have told him that he needs to increase his 3-point attempts.

Also, if you check my other posts thread, I also feel the same way that you do about Derozan leaving. I have stated several times the Spurs were going to go nowhere with him beyond maybe being an 8th seed so there was no point in keeping him.

You can't just say "the bottomline is X" when you literally said Y before I corrected you into X, lmao. Yes, as I said, you can call Pop's advice bad coaching or whatever - but he definitely didn't prevent DeRozan from shooting 3's whatsoever. That's a personal decision for him and how he approaches his game - and there's a significant difference there (which the Bulls will, too, learn about, once his 3PA plummets in the playoffs).

Totally agree on the rest, brother. No point in keeping him and the Spurs are (long-term) better for it.

[tbdog]

Wait... U do realize we went to the lottery in back to back years with DeMar, right? We definitely aren't worse... We are at LEAST the same, except with a brighter future now

The west is worst. We are worst. And last year lma didn't play.

[superbigtime]

Spurs got young tho

[Dverde]

https://twitter.com/playerstribune/status/1477686446626594819

[R. DeMurre]

Trading DeRozan was a good move for everyone involved-- for DeRozan, for the Spurs, for the Bulls. I'm glad it worked out. Well, maybe not for Thad.

[KingKev]

Translation: Pop was wine drunk almost always and brokered my next pay day.

[MultiTroll]

He's not shooting significantly more 3's than he ever has in his career, nor shooting them particularly more efficiently than he ever did.
:spin
36.2% with Bulls is by far the best trey % Derozan has had.
2.2 attempts per game more then doubles nearly triples his Spurs attempts and is 2nd highest season in his entire career.

Great coaching job when Derozan was a Spur.

[MultiTroll]

It actually wasn't like that.

(you can go and see his increasing amounts of 3PA while on the Raps, he was taking something like 5-6 3PA his last season there, of course with awful efficiency). And how once he got to SanAn, Pop did the opposite, and just told him to "play his game" without making an emphasis on what that was, and instead focus on helping the team, making plays for others while mixing it up with scoring, etc.
It actually wasn't like that.

3.6 trey attempts per game.
31% was an increase from the year before and the 2nd best DD % in 9 years in Toronto.

DD dropped to
15%
25%
25%
in 3 years as a Spurs under Popped.

[Sugus]

:spin
36.2% with Bulls is by far the best trey % Derozan has had.
2.2 attempts per game more then doubles nearly triples his Spurs attempts and is 2nd highest season in his entire career.

Great coaching job when Derozan was a Spur.

By far? Lol. He shot 33.8% in '15-16. Only 2% increase, which is further downplayed by the fact that he's got a MUCH better team around him and has to shoulder far less weight of carrying the offense, and far less targeting by defenses, is by far to you? :lmao

Second highest in his career, meaning he was already taking a lot of 3's in previous seasons, exactly like I said? Good to know tbh :tu


It actually wasn't like that.

3.6 trey attempts per game.
31% was an increase from the year before and the 2nd best DD % in 9 years in Toronto.

DD dropped to
15%
25%
25%
in 3 years as a Spurs under Popped.

So it was pretty much like that, except it was 3-4 instead of 5-6 3PA per game that they were making DeRozan take? I didn't specify any one year re: efficiency since I clearly didn't bother checking the stats, but I was sure it was below league average, and lo and behold, I was right. What sad attempt at rebuking me is this? :lol

Your blind hatred of Pop clouds your judgment, Troll. You didn't understand what I said and ended up proving me right. I never said DDR didn't shoot less 3's as a Spur, I literally said he did, my argument lied elsewhere (far away from your Pop hatred, which is why you got it mixed up, I'm guessing).

[rjv]

Also, people are getting carried in the moment with both his game winners being 3's, which is merely a coincidence (he even said his first game winner was pure luck, since he hadn't realized there was so little time on the clock, and had to throw up a prayer). He's not shooting significantly more 3's than he ever has in his career, nor shooting them particularly more efficiently than he ever did. There's little doubt that he'll regress to his comfort zone come playoff time. The only difference this year is that he might just finally have the team around him to relieve him of "shooting duties" and let him play his game on a spaced-out floor.

Regardless, the trade was perfectly good for both parties, still. I'm glad for DeRozan and hold him no ill-will, but also, good riddance.

i don't know for sure that it will but that has always been the knock on demar. he was great in toronto until the playoffs would come around and he was the same here. i'd love for him to see greater success but i wouldn't bet on it.

[MultiTroll]

By far? Lol. He shot 33.8% in '15-16. Only 2% increase, which is further downplayed by the fact that he's got a MUCH better team around him and has to shoulder far less weight of carrying the offense, and far less targeting by defenses, is by far to you? :lmao

Second highest in his career, meaning he was already taking a lot of 3's in previous seasons, exactly like I said? Good to know tbh :tu



So it was pretty much like that, except it was 3-4 instead of 5-6 3PA per game that they were making DeRozan take? I didn't specify any one year re: efficiency since I clearly didn't bother checking the stats, but I was sure it was below league average, and lo and behold, I was right. What sad attempt at rebuking me is this? :lol

Your blind hatred of Pop clouds your judgment, Troll. You didn't understand what I said and ended up proving me right. I never said DDR didn't shoot less 3's as a Spur, I literally said he did, my argument lied elsewhere (far away from your Pop hatred, which is why you got it mixed up, I'm guessing).
You don't take getting exposed well.
Here on ST you get called out if try to manipulate stats to suit your narrative.
You're the troll spinner.

And boring.

[Sugus]

You don't take getting exposed well.
Here on ST you get called out if try to manipulate stats to suit your narrative.
You're the troll spinner.

And boring.

:lmao imagine trying to spin this as me getting "exposed" when I was talking about an entirely different matter, in which you wrongly jumped in just to shit on Pop, and didn't even check the stats you used well. Maybe the bar for "exposed" has gotten really low while I've been away? Nah, gotta be you, trollsie.

And man, are you in for a rude awakening if you really believe your words when you call other people "trolls". Something about a pot and a kettle...

[Sugus]

i don't know for sure that it will but that has always been the knock on demar. he was great in toronto until the playoffs would come around and he was the same here. i'd love for him to see greater success but i wouldn't bet on it.

I mean, the chance this season is that the team that's been built around him is just so good that DeRozan doesn't need to "step up" in the way he's always been asked (and failed) to. At least that's what every Bulls fan is hoping, with Lavine & Company there to pick up his slack. At the least, there's definitely value in a regular season "closer" and righter of the ship, even if he's not ultimately the guy who carries you over the finish line.

I don't hold any ill-will to DeMar beyond having wanted him out of SanAn, so for the betterment of the league, I really hope the Bulls make a good run this season.

[MultiTroll]

^ good luck on your upcoming audition on The Voice / American Idol.

https://youtu.be/2RicaUqd9Hg

[John B]

With 1,487,598 votes, DeMar DeRozan (https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/all-about-demar-derozan-stats-contract-trade-usc-all-star-more) leads all Eastern Conference guards. With 776,043, Zach LaVine (https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/all-about-bulls-leader-zach-lavine-stats-and-contract-info) ranks fourth, trailing Trae Young and James Harden.

Klay Thompson is 4th leading Guard in the West, and Kyrie Irving 6th leading Guard in the East, both haven’t played a single minute (correction Kyrie played last night). :rollin

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

He had plenty of winners for us. But ST only remembered his misses. It was a pleasure watching him play for the spurs.

love demar

[daslicer]

With 1,487,598 votes, DeMar DeRozan (https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/all-about-demar-derozan-stats-contract-trade-usc-all-star-more) leads all Eastern Conference guards. With 776,043, Zach LaVine (https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/all-about-bulls-leader-zach-lavine-stats-and-contract-info) ranks fourth, trailing Trae Young and James Harden.

Klay Thompson is 4th leading Guard in the West, and Kyrie Irving 6th leading Guard in the East, both haven’t played a single minute (correction Kyrie played last night). :rollin

It's amazing what winning in a big market can do for you.

[gambit1990]

demar is playing the way he is because this is the best roster he has been a part of & because doesn't live in kawhi's shadow with the spurs anymore.