malice at the palace netflix documentary

[Neo.]

anyone seen it yet?

[baseline bum]

Still sad Jermaine O'Neal slipped at the last second when he sucker punched that obese Pistons fan. That one could have been nice if he would have gotten a clean hit with all that momentum.

[daslicer]

Haven't seen it but I have read the reviews of people who have seen it on Realgm. From what I have heard nothing new is revealed about the brawl that we didn't know already. It's pretty much for people who are not basketball fans. Also I have heard Stephen Jackson comes across as the dumbest person in the documentary but that's not surprising.

[lefty]

Not yet but I will

The Pacers had a legit shot at the NBA title that year tbh

[Arcadian]

I watched it last night. It was pretty funny. Artest admitted he was a coward for leaving the Pacers after that, Jackson said he's not sorry for the brawl and was actually proud of defending his teammates, and the whole thing was framed as a tragedy for Jermaine O'Neal and Reggie Miller not winning a ring. Reggie in particular is convinced the Pacers would have won a ring in 2005 if the brawl had never happened.

How do you think a Spurs vs. Pacers 2005 Finals would've gone? I say Spurs in 6.

[koriwhat]

Also I have heard Stephen Jackson comes across as the dumbest person in the documentary but that's not surprising.

Jackson is a dumb person tbh. Not only that but he surrounded himself with trash like Floyd.

[Neo.]

Not yet but I will

The Pacers had a legit shot at the NBA title that year tbh

yeah those pacer teams were underrated, very similar to the pistons team where they had no true superstars but a lot of very solid players, balance and quality depth

[daslicer]

I watched it last night. It was pretty funny. Artest admitted he was a coward for leaving the Pacers after that, Jackson said he's not sorry for the brawl and was actually proud of defending his teammates, and the whole thing was framed as a tragedy for Jermaine O'Neal and Reggie Miller not winning a ring. Reggie in particular is convinced the Pacers would have won a ring in 2005 if the brawl had never happened.

How do you think a Spurs vs. Pacers 2005 Finals would've gone? I say Spurs in 6.

Duncan would have had a much better series offensively against the Pacers then the Pistons simply because Jermaine/Foster were not on the same level as Sheed/Ben. Tinsley would also have not frustrated Parker the way Billups did. Parker would own the match up. Manu would get underneath Artest's skin and probably get him tossed out after Artest does a dirty flagrant 2 on him. Spurs like you said win in 6.

[lefty]

That’s a lot of “would” lol

[Dirks_Finale]

I watched it last night. It was pretty funny. Artest admitted he was a coward for leaving the Pacers after that, Jackson said he's not sorry for the brawl and was actually proud of defending his teammates, and the whole thing was framed as a tragedy for Jermaine O'Neal and Reggie Miller not winning a ring. Reggie in particular is convinced the Pacers would have won a ring in 2005 if the brawl had never happened.

How do you think a Spurs vs. Pacers 2005 Finals would've gone? I say Spurs in 6.

That spurs team was excellent. They beat Indy in 6

[lefty]

Nah the Pacers would have skullfucked the Sperms

[DeadlyDynasty]

They wouldn't have even got by Miami imo. Spurs would've won in six, five if they didn't have HCA cause of 2-3-2

[baseline bum]

I watched it last night. It was pretty funny. Artest admitted he was a coward for leaving the Pacers after that, Jackson said he's not sorry for the brawl and was actually proud of defending his teammates, and the whole thing was framed as a tragedy for Jermaine O'Neal and Reggie Miller not winning a ring. Reggie in particular is convinced the Pacers would have won a ring in 2005 if the brawl had never happened.

How do you think a Spurs vs. Pacers 2005 Finals would've gone? I say Spurs in 6.

I think Spurs in 6 also. While the 04 Pacers gave the Pistons hell in the ECF and the 05 team was way better with Stephen Jackson added, I don't think they would be as tough a matchup for the Spurs as the 05 Pistons were. While Artest and Jackson would handcuff the shit out of Manu, Duncan would murder Jermaine O'Neal, Austin Croshere, and Jeff Foster. So much easier a matchup for him than having to go at the two Wallaces and then McDyess too.

[baseline bum]

They wouldn't have even got by Miami imo. Spurs would've won in six, five if they didn't have HCA cause of 2-3-2

True, but that Pacers team would have probably been the #1 seed in the east so Miami and Detroit would have met up in the second round. If Miami wins that series they probably beat Indiana but Detroit wins that series and I'm taking the Pacers in the ECF.

[Thanos]

I’m still of the belief that Ben Wallace deserved 75% of the blame for the whole thing. He started the whole thing by shoving Artest over a foul that really wasn’t all that hard. He was just butthurt that his team got killed. And then he kept trying to go at Artest and wouldn’t calm down, which led to Artest laying on the scorers table.

He may not have lit the match, but he certainly is the guy who poured gasoline on the situation. He should have gotten the second largest suspension after Artest.

[baseline bum]

I’m still of the belief that Ben Wallace deserved 75% of the blame for the whole thing. He started the whole thing by shoving Artest over a foul that really wasn’t all that hard. He was just butthurt that his team got killed. And then he kept trying to go at Artest and wouldn’t calm down, which led to Artest laying on the scorers table.

He may not have lit the match, but he certainly is the guy who poured gasoline on the situation. He should have gotten the second largest suspension after Artest.

The NBA had to give Jackson a huge suspension for decking that innocent fan though. Sucks that there is no real punishment the NBA could give to the Pistons fanbase for starting that shit. One fan getting barred for life is a pretty small price to pay for ending your rivals' season.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Just saw it and yeah, there’s really nothing new. It gets predictably preachy. Not sure why anybody puts a mic in front of Stephen Jackson anymore

[ambchang]

Were there any criminal charges?

[Thanos]

Just saw it and yeah, there’s really nothing new. It gets predictably preachy. Not sure why anybody puts a mic in front of Stephen Jackson anymore
Did he blame the Jews?

[james evans]

Did he blame the Jews?
why would he blame a religious organization? Unless you are one of the many uniformed that believe Judaism is a race of people..

[JamStone]

Did not watch. Have not thought about that night at all in over a decade. Don’t remember every detail anymore, just vaguely. But couple of thoughts as a Pistons fan who remembers watching it on TV as it unfolded.

Ben Wallace absolutely deserves blame for taking it to the level it got to initially. If the Pistons were the ones up big and the same foul happened, no way he reacts that way. Pacers were punking the Pistons. Ben took exception because it was a blowout.

Do not take blame away from Ron Artest just because Ben instigated it. Many ways Artest could have responded that would not have stirred up the crowd the way it did, not the least of which was dramatically laying down on the scorers table. Cannot blame Ben for Ron Artest’s crazy.

Similarly, any blame Artest deserves does not take away blame from the guy who threw the cup. Since I didn’t watch the doc, I don’t know if it goes into greater detail about the cup. But you often hear or read that a fan threw a beer at Artest. It was a cup. Maybe a cup of beer, but a cup. Not a beer bottle, not a beer can. And from that distance, even if there was some beer or drink left in it, it probably wasn’t a lot. So while I think the fan was a fucking idiot and should have been banned for life from NBA games and even face charges, just realize Ron Artest’s response was over getting hit by a plastic or paper cup. A cup.

Even as a Pistons fan, I wanted Jermaine O’Neal to cold cock that fan on the court. Stupid games, stupid prizes. Fellow Pistons fan, but he deserved to get knocked the fuck out. What the hell are you doing stepping up to a 25 year old, 7 foot professional athlete like you’re gon do something? Dumbass. Too bad he didn’t connect clean.

Stupid showcase by Pistons fans. Really dumb. Deserves all the criticism in the world for how many of those fans acted that night. In reality, I could see the same thing happen, given the right circumstances, in cities like Philly, New York, Boston. But it didn’t happen in those cities. It happened in Detroit... really Auburn Hills, which also goes a little unmentioned in all of that. That’s the northern suburbs of Detroit. The “rich” suburbs. The Palace by then was filled with a lot of upper middle class suburban folks. The working class people of city proper often got priced out especially when the Pistons got good again and won that third championship. So if any impression was left that cast Detroit and Detroiters in a really bad light, it’s a bit misplaced. A lot of those hooligans with drunk courage were suburbanites acting out their thug fantasies.

Oh, and also dumb for Pacers players to assume they’d win the title that season based on how they were playing in November. A lot of season to go before you know what kind of team you got and how well you will play in the playoffs in May, June.

[Thanos]

why would he blame a religious organization? Unless you are one of the many uniformed that believe Judaism is a race of people..
Apparently you’re uninformed on Stephen Jackson’s hot takes regarding the Semites

[daslicer]

Did not watch. Have not thought about that night at all in over a decade. Don’t remember every detail anymore, just vaguely. But couple of thoughts as a Pistons fan who remembers watching it on TV as it unfolded.

Ben Wallace absolutely deserves blame for taking it to the level it got to initially. If the Pistons were the ones up big and the same foul happened, no way he reacts that way. Pacers were punking the Pistons. Ben took exception because it was a blowout.

Do not take blame away from Ron Artest just because Ben instigated it. Many ways Artest could have responded that would not have stirred up the crowd the way it did, not the least of which was dramatically laying down on the scorers table. Cannot blame Ben for Ron Artest’s crazy.

Similarly, any blame Artest deserves does not take away blame from the guy who threw the cup. Since I didn’t watch the doc, I don’t know if it goes into greater detail about the cup. But you often hear or read that a fan threw a beer at Artest. It was a cup. Maybe a cup of beer, but a cup. Not a beer bottle, not a beer can. And from that distance, even if there was some beer or drink left in it, it probably wasn’t a lot. So while I think the fan was a fucking idiot and should have been banned for life from NBA games and even face charges, just realize Ron Artest’s response was over getting hit by a plastic or paper cup. A cup.

Even as a Pistons fan, I wanted Jermaine O’Neal to cold cock that fan on the court. Stupid games, stupid prizes. Fellow Pistons fan, but he deserved to get knocked the fuck out. What the hell are you doing stepping up to a 25 year old, 7 foot professional athlete like you’re gon do something? Dumbass. Too bad he didn’t connect clean.

Stupid showcase by Pistons fans. Really dumb. Deserves all the criticism in the world for how many of those fans acted that night. In reality, I could see the same thing happen, given the right circumstances, in cities like Philly, New York, Boston. But it didn’t happen in those cities. It happened in Detroit... really Auburn Hills, which also goes a little unmentioned in all of that. That’s the northern suburbs of Detroit. The “rich” suburbs. The Palace by then was filled with a lot of upper middle class suburban folks. The working class people of city proper often got priced out especially when the Pistons got good again and won that third championship. So if any impression was left that cast Detroit and Detroiters in a really bad light, it’s a bit misplaced. A lot of those hooligans with drunk courage were suburbanites acting out their thug fantasies.

Oh, and also dumb for Pacers players to assume they’d win the title that season based on how they were playing in November. A lot of season to go before you know what kind of team you got and how well you will play in the playoffs in May, June.

I have heard for years people who were pro-Detroit say that those fans were working class fans that came down to the lower levels once the game was decided and that the upper middle class fans had left.

[james evans]

Apparently you’re uninformed on Stephen Jackson’s hot takes regarding the Semites
well Stephen Jackson, like so many others, are dumbazzes. Religion as a whole is a sham... As for Jackson, he's a muslim that smokes and drinks. That's all you need to know about him..

[Dirks_Finale]

Watched it.

5/10 tbh.

Probably nicer if you are a Pacer fan. Let's you relive Reggie's elusive quest for a title.

[lefty]

I’m surprised they didn’t mention the fact that Reggie’s last game was am elimination against….. Detroit

Also, Jamaal Tinsley is fucking dumb

[Ice009]

well Stephen Jackson, like so many others, are dumbazzes. Religion as a whole is a sham... As for Jackson, he's a muslim that smokes and drinks. That's all you need to know about him..

I didn't think he had any religious beliefs. How long has he been Muslim?

[Chucho]

It was a fun watch and a netflix doc that wasn't unnecessarily stretched out as they seem to do with ever doc they produce now.

[da_suns_fan]

Just saw it and yeah, there’s really nothing new. It gets predictably preachy. Not sure why anybody puts a mic in front of Stephen Jackson anymore

I, too, was completely unmoved and the documentary did nothing to change my perception of anything.

They talked as if showing ALL of the footage, people might judge them differently.

I didnt. Artest is a nutcase. Jackson is a nutcase. Jermain Oneal was still very immature. Ben Wallace acted like an idiot. The fans acted like idiots.

No clue why there was so much emphasis on Reggie Miller and his career. Literally had nothing to do with that night.

I also couldnt believe they made such a big deal about the guy who threw the cup on Artest. As if he should be punished for how Artest reacted or how other people reacted.

He threw a cup of beer. Ban him from all NBA games.

[Thread]

It was a fun watch and a netflix doc that wasn't unnecessarily stretched out as they seem to do with ever doc they produce now.

Amen to that, Chooch. You can't watch any of this type materiel and it's sheer agony as they keep going back over what they've already presented till you about lose your mind.

[Arcadian]

No clue why there was so much emphasis on Reggie Miller and his career. Literally had nothing to do with that night.

Just because it was his last season, and that incident cost him a shot at a ring. The whole thing was framed as derailing a Pacers championship run. They were trying to put it in a context that adds to the gravity of the situation.

[BD24]

I’m surprised they didn’t mention the fact that Reggie’s last game was am elimination against….. Detroit

Also, Jamaal Tinsley is fucking dumb
Yea. I didn’t know the part about tinsley telling artest to get his foul.

that was fucking stupid. He knew damn well artest was a crazy person

[Dex]

I, too, was completely unmoved and the documentary did nothing to change my perception of anything.

They talked as if showing ALL of the footage, people might judge them differently.

I didnt. Artest is a nutcase. Jackson is a nutcase. Jermain Oneal was still very immature. Ben Wallace acted like an idiot. The fans acted like idiots.

No clue why there was so much emphasis on Reggie Miller and his career. Literally had nothing to do with that night.

I also couldnt believe they made such a big deal about the guy who threw the cup on Artest. As if he should be punished for how Artest reacted or how other people reacted.

He threw a cup of beer. Ban him from all NBA games.

100% agreed. They showed a few new clips and gave a lot of background on the players involved, but I didn't walk away with any new conclusions.

It was a perfect storm of events. High tensions after a physical playoff series. Two teams who viewed themselves as the best in the East and had that "big dog" mentality.

Wallace overreacts. Artest overreacts. A fan overreacts, and chaos ensues.

What amazed me the most was the lack of remorse from Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal. Nearly 20 years later, and they still have the same mindset and are making excuses for their behavior. "I felt threatened and/or saw my guy in trouble, so I decided to jump in and start wrecking shop". They basically said they would do the same thing if it had happened again.

I know some of these guys came from rough lives and feel the instinct to defend themselves and their crew...but this wasn't the mean streets of Compton or Chicago or anything. This was in the middle of a nationally televised NBA game.

Getting hit by a cup of beer sucks, and anyone would feel disrespected by that. But I'm sure losing millions of dollars and threatening the future of your career and a franchise sure sucks more.

[lefty]

I didn’t know Wallace had just lost his brother
That explains his reaction to the hard foul (compounded with losing the game)

[baseline bum]

I, too, was completely unmoved and the documentary did nothing to change my perception of anything.

They talked as if showing ALL of the footage, people might judge them differently.

I didnt. Artest is a nutcase. Jackson is a nutcase. Jermain Oneal was still very immature. Ben Wallace acted like an idiot. The fans acted like idiots.

No clue why there was so much emphasis on Reggie Miller and his career. Literally had nothing to do with that night.

I also couldnt believe they made such a big deal about the guy who threw the cup on Artest. As if he should be punished for how Artest reacted or how other people reacted.

He threw a cup of beer. Ban him from all NBA games.

Wasn't that guy punching Artest in the back of the head too?

[Neo.]

Wasn't that guy punching Artest in the back of the head too?

:lol i was thinking the same. he did much more than just throw a cup of beer.

[Thread]

Though I did feel like I'd been thru an event. More the presentation than the actual event though.

[Brazil]

Only dude who was honest in this documentary is Artest tbh... Don't get me wrong Artest is a massive pos, dude is fucking nuts... dat elbow on harden head, crazy shit... BUT he was sincere in this documentary, basically telling like it is.. yeah I have mental issues and I have been a coward.

Documentary also confirmed a couple of things:

- Miller seems to be a nice guy
- Pacers are delusional thinking title was their based on the way they were playing in November
- Jax is a moron
- O'Neal is a fucking cry baby that thinks this event derailed his career :lol dude thinks he was Duncan or something ? :lol
- Dat Piston fan who threw the cup is a fucking Moron

[lefty]

Only dude who was honest in this documentary is Artest tbh... Don't get me wrong Artest is a massive pos, dude is fucking nuts... dat elbow on harden head, crazy shit... BUT he was sincere in this documentary, basically telling like it is.. yeah I have mental issues and I have been a coward.

Documentary also confirmed a couple of things:

- Miller seems to be a nice guy
- Pacers are delusional thinking title was their based on the way they were playing in November
- Jax is a moron
- O'Neal is a fucking cry baby that thinks this event derailed his career :lol dude thinks he was Duncan or something ? :lol
- Dat Piston fan who threw the cup is a fucking Moron
Miller seems to be a nice dude tbh, he had some cool tidbits in the show Open Court.
At the same time he is annoying during game broadcasts

[Michael Jordan.]

Yeah Artest is a nutcase but so is Jackson lol

[Killakobe81]

Just because it was his last season, and that incident cost him a shot at a ring. The whole thing was framed as derailing a Pacers championship run. They were trying to put it in a context that adds to the gravity of the situation.

This. Of course there is no guarantee of shit, but yes bemoan the incident not just because of $$$ lost and the hit to their so-called characters...but ot was Reggie 2nd (or third) and last best shot at a title

[Killakobe81]

BTW some Suns feel the same about Amare stepping on the court or the luck shot by Artest. Prevented Nash last title shot.

[da_suns_fan]

100% agreed. They showed a few new clips and gave a lot of background on the players involved, but I didn't walk away with any new conclusions.

It was a perfect storm of events. High tensions after a physical playoff series. Two teams who viewed themselves as the best in the East and had that "big dog" mentality.

Wallace overreacts. Artest overreacts. A fan overreacts, and chaos ensues.

What amazed me the most was the lack of remorse from Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal. Nearly 20 years later, and they still have the same mindset and are making excuses for their behavior. "I felt threatened and/or saw my guy in trouble, so I decided to jump in and start wrecking shop". They basically said they would do the same thing if it had happened again.

I know some of these guys came from rough lives and feel the instinct to defend themselves and their crew...but this wasn't the mean streets of Compton or Chicago or anything. This was in the middle of a nationally televised NBA game.

Getting hit by a cup of beer sucks, and anyone would feel disrespected by that. But I'm sure losing millions of dollars and threatening the future of your career and a franchise sure sucks more.

Absolutely. They could just say "it was chaos and we got carried away....we all screwed up".