Open Thread - Nov 22, 2005

[Nbadan]

Post your thoughts:

"Rumor is that President Bush’s brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, may run
for president. Rumor is? According to Florida voting machines, he’s
already won." —Jay Leno

[Mr. Peabody]

Yeah, now I remember why I don't watch Jay Leno.

[Nbadan]

Ah, at least Florida Election fraud is getting mainstream attention it deserves, but Diebold and EC&S still have the power to swing elections without a trace. Scary.

Meanwhile, Scalia is banking on short memories...


SCALIA RAPS GORE FOR '00
By FRANKIE EDOZIEN

November 22, 2005 -- U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia says the high court did not inject itself into the 2000 presidential election.
Speaking at the Time Warner Center last night, Scalia said: "The election was dragged into the courts by the Gore people. We did not go looking for trouble."

But he said the court had to take the case.

"The issue was whether Florida's Supreme Court or the United States Supreme Court would decide the election. What did you expect us to do? Turn the case down because it wasn't important enough?"

NY Post (http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/58101.htm)

I dunno, maybe remain ideologically consistent and allow the STATES to determine how they run and decide their own elections?

[boutons]

"What did you expect us to do?"

I never heard their decision was based on importance high or low, but on the press of time.

ie, the decision wasn't important enough to give FL the time it needed to count their state's votes accurately. What was so pressing at that time that was more important the the credibility and accuracy of the re-count?

"states rights" and "smaller federal role" and "constitution requirement for balanced budget" are all conservative rallying points until they aren't to the Repugs advantage.

In more a current buzz phrase, I consider the SC deciding the 2000 election to be extreme judicial activistism. They should have refused to accept the case and let the FL SC rule its own election. ah no, the "states rights" Repubs went crying to the feds overrule the FL SC.

[Vashner]

I don't think Jeb will run in 08. If he does it will be as a VP.

He can wait till 12 or 16 he's young.

Is the DNC 08 convention 1 week ahead of the republican convention again? This would be a good tactical advantage to see if Hillary wins nomination.. then you put up Condi.. if it's not Hillary and you might put up someone else at the last momemnt.

[mookie2001]

...but why would they CALL it the PATRIOT Act, they NAMED it that, TITLED it that...
why?

[FromWayDowntown]

...but why would they CALL it the PATRIOT Act, they NAMED it that, TITLED it that...
why?

Damnit, mookie: if you're going to question things like that -- if you're getting in the way of this President's agenda -- you're obviously supporting the terrorists! You don't know why because you obviously aren't a patriot.

[spurster]

Ok, they're not my thoughts, but interesting.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/112005Y.shtml

One War Lost, Another to Go
By Frank Rich
The New York Times

Sunday 20 November 2005

If anyone needs further proof that we are racing for the exits in Iraq, just follow the bouncing ball that is Rick Santorum. A Republican leader in the Senate and a true-blue (or red) Iraq hawk, he has long slobbered over President Bush, much as Ed McMahon did over Johnny Carson. But when Mr. Bush went to Mr. Santorum's home state of Pennsylvania to give his Veterans Day speech smearing the war's critics as unpatriotic, the senator was M.I.A.

Mr. Santorum preferred to honor a previous engagement more than 100 miles away. There he told reporters for the first time that "maybe some blame" for the war's "less than optimal" progress belonged to the White House. This change of heart had nothing to do with looming revelations of how the new Iraqi "democracy" had instituted Saddam-style torture chambers. Or with the spiraling investigations into the whereabouts of nearly $9 billion in unaccounted-for taxpayers' money from the American occupation authority. Or with the latest spike in casualties. Mr. Santorum was instead contemplating his own incipient political obituary written the day before: a poll showing him 16 points down in his re-election race. No sooner did he stiff Mr. Bush in Pennsylvania than he did so again in Washington, voting with a 79-to-19 majority on a Senate resolution begging for an Iraq exit strategy. He was joined by all but one (Jon Kyl) of the 13 other Republican senators running for re-election next year. They desperately want to be able to tell their constituents that they were against the war after they were for it.

...

[Useruser666]

If you're not with us, you're with mookie! :lol

[jochhejaam]

Damnit, mookie: if you're going to question things like that -- if you're getting in the way of this President's agenda -- you're obviously supporting the terrorists! You don't know why because you obviously aren't a patriot.
I appreciate the sentiments FWD and it's a darn shame everyone doesn't see it that way.
Well said!!




















http://www.whatonearthcatalog.com/graphics/products/regular/AG3761G.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Man, I'm so out of the political loop right now.

[Oh, Gee!!]

What if TX becomes its own nation? Who would be president?

[Nbadan]

What if TX becomes its own nation? Who would be president?

http://www.lookalike.com/lookalikes/images/willie-nelson2.jpg

:lol

[Nbadan]

At this point, I have little doubt we will be looking at a Hillary Clinton versus Jeb Bush election in 08.

[jochhejaam]

At this point, I have little doubt we will be looking at a Hillary Clinton versus Jeb Bush election in 08.
I'll assume you posted this to create dialogue (it worked) and not because you really buy into it. Forget Jeb, he's not interested nor are the Republicans interested in him. (you'd like him to run because you know he won't win)

Possible Republican Ticket

1. John McCain/George Allen

2. George Allen/John McCain

3. George Allen/Sam Brownback

[mookie2001]

http://peacecorpsonline.org/messages/imagefolder/billfrist.jpgFrist/Falwell

[RandomGuy]

If we elect another member of the Bush family, we might as well become a freakin' monarchy.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

LOL i'm surprised gtownspur has not enlightened us in this thread with more astrophysics-esque political quotes

"black people are actually robots controlled by homosexual activists"
or
"bush created electricity"
something good like that

[MannyIsGod]

I won't vote for Hillary Clinton.

[Hook Dem]

I won't vote for Hillary Clinton.
Smart Man !!!!!!

[Nbadan]

Rare MSM coverage on the recent GAO report outlining the stolen 04 Presidential election...


Among other things, the GAO confirms that:

1. Some electronic voting machines "did not encrypt cast ballots or system audit logs, and it was possible to alter both without being detected." In other words, the GAO now confirms that electronic voting machines provided an open door to flip an entire vote count. More than 800,000 votes were cast in Ohio on electronic voting machines, some seven times Bush's official margin of victory.

2. "It was possible to alter the files that define how a ballot looks and works so that the votes for one candidate could be recorded for a different candidate." Numerous sworn statements and affidavits assert that this did happen in Ohio 2004.

3. "Vendors installed uncertified versions of voting system software at the local level." 3. Falsifying election results without leaving any evidence of such an action by using altered memory cards can easily be done, according to the GAO.

4. The GAO also confirms that access to the voting network was easily compromised because not all digital recording electronic voting systems (DREs) had supervisory functions password-protected, so access to one machine provided access to the whole network. This critical finding confirms that rigging the 2004 vote did not require a "widespread conspiracy" but rather the cooperation of a very small number of operatives with the power to tap into the networked machines and thus change large numbers of votes at will. With 800,000 votes cast on electronic machines in Ohio, flipping the number needed to give Bush 118,775 could be easily done by just one programmer.

5. Access to the voting network was also compromised by repeated use of the same user IDs combined with easily guessed passwords. So even relatively amateur hackers could have gained access to and altered the Ohio vote tallies.

6. The locks protecting access to the system were easily picked and keys were simple to copy, meaning, again, getting into the system was an easy matter.

7. One DRE model was shown to have been networked in such a rudimentary fashion that a power failure on one machine would cause the entire network to fail, re-emphasizing the fragility of the system on which the Presidency of the United States was decided.

8. GAO identified further problems with the security protocols and background screening practices for vendor personnel, confirming still more easy access to the system.

In essence, the GAO study makes it clear that no bank, grocery store or mom & pop chop shop would dare operate its business on a computer system as flimsy, fragile and easily manipulated as the one on which the 2004 election turned.

The GAO findings are particularly damning when set in the context of an election run in Ohio by a Secretary of State simultaneously working as co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign. Far from what election theft skeptics have long asserted, the GAO findings confirm that the electronic network on which 800,000 Ohio votes were cast was vulnerable enough to allow a a tiny handful of operatives -- or less -- to turn the whole vote count using personal computers operating on relatively simple software.

The GAO documentation flows alongside other crucial realities surrounding the 2004 vote count. For example:

The exit polls showed Kerry winning in Ohio, until an unexplained last minute shift gave the election to Bush. Similar definitive shifts also occurred in Iowa, Nevada and New Mexico, a virtual statistical impossibility.

A few weeks prior to the election, an unauthorized former ES&S voting machine company employee, was caught on the ballot-making machine in Auglaize County

Election officials in Mahoning County now concede that at least 18 machines visibly transferred votes for Kerry to Bush. Voters who pushed Kerry's name saw Bush's name light up, again and again, all day long. Officials claim the problems were quickly solved, but sworn statements and affidavits say otherwise. They confirm similar problems inFranklin County (Columbus). Kerry's margins in both counties were suspiciously low.

A voting machine in Mahoning County recorded a negative 25 million votes for Kerry. The problem was allegedly fixed.

In Gahanna Ward 1B, at a fundamentalist church, a so-called "electronic transfer glitch" gave Bush nearly 4000 extra votes when only 638 people voted at that polling place. The tally was allegedly corrected, but remains infamous as the "loaves and fishes" vote count.

In Franklin County, dozens of voters swore under oath that their vote for Kerry faded away on the DRE without a paper trail.

In Miami County, at 1:43am after Election Day, with the county's central tabulator reporting 100% of the vote - 19,000 more votes mysteriously arrived; 13,000 were for Bush at the same percentage as prior to the additional votes, a virtual statistical impossibility.

In Cleveland, large, entirely implausible vote totals turned up for obscure third party candidates in traditional Democratic African-American wards. Vote counts in neighboring wards showed virtually no votes for those candidates, with 90% going instead for Kerry.

Prior to one of Blackwell's illegitimate "show recounts," technicians from Triad voting machine company showed up unannounced at the Hocking County Board of Elections and removed the computer hard drive.

In response to official information requests, Shelby and other counties admit to having discarded key records and equipment before any recount could take place.

In a conference call with Rev. Jackson, Attorney Cliff Arnebeck, Attorney Bob Fitrakis and others,
John Kerry confirmed that he lost every precinct in New Mexico that had a touchscreen voting machine. The losses had no correlation with ethnicity, social class or traditional party affiliation---only with the fact that touchscreen machines were used.

In a public letter, Rep. Conyers has stated that "by and large, when it comes to a voting machine, the average voter is getting a lemon - the Ford Pinto of voting technology. We must demand better."

But the GAO report now confirms that electronic voting machines as deployed in 2004 were in fact perfectly engineered to allow a very small number of partisans with minimal computer skills and equipment to shift enough votes to put George W. Bush back in the White House.

Given the growing body of evidence, it appears increasingly clear
that's exactly what happened.

Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20051204/cm_huffpost/011483)

If we're gonna tutor people on the principles of democracy shouldn't we make sure that our own elections are as squeaky clean as technologically possible?

[mookie2001]

hyeah no joke^

its funny when "republicans"(for some reason), argue that the evoting machines have paper backups...of the electronic results



xrays cue to come in and say "except it lefties!!!!, Bush won"

[CharlieMac]

At this point, I have little doubt we will be looking at a Hillary Clinton versus Jeb Bush election in 08.

No way, neither party would never allow the to get that far. They both only appeal to hard-core supporters.

[Nbadan]

No way, neither party would never allow the to get that far. They both only appeal to hard-core supporters.

The Neocons have no choice now but to try and hold onto power. Either this or go to jail. They will use their stooges in th MSM to sabotage other candidates. It has alreay begun.

[Nbadan]

Hillary is building fences and accumalating political capital, as they say, even in Red State Kentucky...

WP blog: The Fix
by Chris Cillizza
Hillary in the Bluegrass State


For those questioning whether Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) should be considered the frontrunner for the 2008 Democratic nomination, look no further than her weekend trip to Kentucky -- the so-called Bluegrass state that has become decidedly "Red" over the past decade.

Clinton journeyed to the "Purple" island of Louisville to headline a Saturday night event that drew 2,000 attendees and raked in better than $600,000 for the state's Democratic Party -- the largest take from a single fundraiser in the history of the Kentucky Democratic Party. Hillary's haul is all the more impressive given that Republicans currently dominate the state's political scene, controlling the governorship, both U.S. Senate seats and five of six House seats. President Bush won the Bluegrass State in 2004 by 20 percent over John Kerry.

HRC backers say the majority of the dollars came from individuals, with local party groups from 99 of the state's 120 counties paying for a table at the event. The remaining 21 counties had a representative in attendance, the sources said.

The ability to travel to a red state and deliver such a huge cash total is a trait that only Clinton has among those Democrats considering a 2008 White House race. And while money may not buy happiness, it certainly does buy political loyalty. As she travels the country raising dollars for candidates and party committees, Clinton is accumulating a huge number of chits that she can call in should she run for president....

WP blog (http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/thefix/)

[Useruser666]

For me NO:

Hillary
Jeb
Lieberman

[JoeChalupa]

McCain/Lieberman

That's the ticket.

[mookie2001]

lieberman
hillary
mccain
frist
kerry
jeb bush

are a no for me
BUT, i will support the democratic nominee
i just hope its none of these chodes