Could Murray be another Kawhi?

[Manu&Duncan fan]

These days many fans want to trade Murray for Simmons. I'm wondering why. Murray has been improving each season. Next season he could be a 20+ guy with 38+% 3pt percentage. Seems to me this is better than Kawhi at his 5th season. Anyone has data to compare? Like Kawhi, Murray is a gym rat and had strong desire to be the best. Plus, he has the tools. With the Spurs' development system, he may be a super stay like Kawhi. Am I too crazy?

[tbdog]

Yes. Your crazy lol. Leonard started year 1. He was physically ready. His jumper looked good from the get go. He then got stronger and better at essentially every part of the game. Plus the guy was clutch as fuck.

Murray to me has poor balance on his shot. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a good shooter because of this. If Murray ever makes an all star, then a lot would have gone right for him and the spurs. Then there is a long way to go by being a MVP candidate every year.

[Chinook]

Most players improve every year. Spurs guys aren't special in that regard.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

dejounte is worse than kawhi during their first 4 seasons in literally every category except assists (and arguably defensive rebounding)

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1=murrade01&p1yrfrom=2017&p1yrto=2021&player_id2=leonaka01&p2yrfrom=2012&p2yrto=2015

[cd98]

Murray is on the growth side of his career still. He's yet to hit his prime. So he will improve regardless of what team he is on. He may not get to Kawhi's level, but he doesn't have to get to Kawhi's level to be a top player in this league.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Dejounte has grown on me over the years. If Kawhi didn't have chronic injuries he'd be in the running for one of the top 3 players in the league. Not sure DJM can reach those heights.

That said, I like him as a Spur.

[R. DeMurre]

Kawhi's advanced stats were pretty much great from the very beginning, and only got better. Dejounte is barely hovering at a hair above average and has never even had a season where his Offensive Rating has been higher than his Defensive Rating. Kawhi has never had a season where his OFF/DEF ratings were upside down. I like Dejounte's versatility, but they're really not even comparable. Kawhi can be the best player on a great team. Dejounte's maybe the 4th best player on a great team.

[spurspl]

lol no

[jjspur]

Murray is a slightly better than average NBA player who has improved every year and that's great for us, but as much as I dislike that diva jerk Kawhi, he was and is a better overall player than Murray will possibly ever be. Those two are just in the same category. :)

[timtonymanu]

Oh god this kind of thread again.

[timtonymanu]

Poetl is another Tim Duncan

[John B]

Kawhi is an athletic freak with his freakish hands, and that helps him cover his guy defensively, or has better control of the ball. I cringe every time DJ attacks the paint. DJ needs to get stronger if he has any chance of becoming close to Kawhi.

[KobesAchilles]

Yes. Murray is about a year (maaaybe 2) away from being a back to back DPOY, multiple all-star, and final mvp. We are lucky as hell

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yes. Your crazy lol. Leonard started year 1. He was physically ready. His jumper looked good from the get go. He then got stronger and better at essentially every part of the game. Plus the guy was clutch as fuck.

Murray to me has poor balance on his shot. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a good shooter because of this. If Murray ever makes an all star, then a lot would have gone right for him and the spurs. Then there is a long way to go by being a MVP candidate every year.

His jumper and dribble did not look good from the get go.

[Chinook]

The best thing to ever happen to Murray's stock was that ACL injury. It bought him three years of excuses for why his development has mostly stagnated. He improves certain skills, but he hasn't actually gotten better on the court since his second year.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The best thing to ever happen to Murray's stock was that ACL injury. It bought him three years of excuses for why his development has mostly stagnated. He improves certain skills, but he hasn't actually gotten better on the court since his second year.

I think he's gotten a lot better if you look at things like his assist to turnover ratio, his overall court vision, his ball-handling, his scoring. I mean, he averaged 16, 7 and 5 last year with his steals and turnovers nearly equal. I think for teams that don't watch the Spurs closely, Murray could be a coveted trade piece.


He was cringe-worthy running the show those first couple of seasons. Now he has stretches where he's really good, albeit mostly short stretches. To your point about improving overall on the court...yeah he's not great, but certainly not as bad as he was earlier in his career. I'd say he's improved a bunch from where he started, but his personal bar was set pretty darn low based on those first couple of seasons.

[OldMan88]

Murray is completely different type of player than KL, plus I don’t think he has a POS batshit crazy uncle pulling his strings.

[TD 21]

I think he's gotten a lot better if you look at things like his assist to turnover ratio, his overall court vision, his ball-handling, his scoring. I mean, he averaged 16, 7 and 5 last year with his steals and turnovers nearly equal. I think for teams that don't watch the Spurs closely, Murray could be a coveted trade piece.


He was cringe-worthy running the show those first couple of seasons. Now he has stretches where he's really good, albeit mostly short stretches. To your point about improving overall on the court...yeah he's not great, but certainly not as bad as he was earlier in his career. I'd say he's improved a bunch from where he started, but his personal bar was set pretty darn low based on those first couple of seasons.

They all have people (such as pro scouts) who watch every team closesly and they don't rely on counting stats without context to inform decisions or determine value.

A supposed "PG", who's middling (mid range pullups and finishing at the rim) to worse (3-point shootning of all types, getting to the rim, advanced play making) in every coveted offensive area, is not going to interest many teams.

[acoelho1]

Murray was incredibly raw when coming into the league and more so than Leonard. I don't have a crystal ball but he still has a lot room for growth. I don't expect a top 10 player like Leonard but possibly all star level with elite defensive prowess. Like everyone else on the team, this year will tell us a lot about the talent level on this team.

[daslicer]

The guy I was hoping Dejounte could be was actually Gary Payton. His build and his body is very similar to Gary. At this point I don't think he will ever be on Payton's level.

[99 Problems]

[QUOTE=KobesAchilles;10595529]Yes. Murray is about a year (maaaybe 2) away from being a back to back DPOY, multiple all-star, and final mvp. We are lucky as hell[/QUOTE



Especially now, as we lost King Patty.

[DeRozan m8]

How can someone be so blind to ceilings?

[Maddog]

If you'd made this claim at the end of 2018 it might not have been so crazy
21 year old second team all defense.
Sumer of 2018 Nephew leaves, Fall of 2018 DJM tears ACL
Last year pretty darn good year a little improvement and you have a borderline all star on a decent contract. Not a nephew, but not bad.

[XDT76]

The guy I was hoping Dejounte could be was actually Gary Payton. His build and his body is very similar to Gary. At this point I don't think he will ever be on Payton's level.

Probably White is closer to Gary Payton. However all three of them have their own style.

[lefty]

:lol


https://twitter.com/overtime/status/1433828942675423234

[Budkin]

https://twitter.com/AlamoOnTheRise/status/1433847829240467459?s=20

[Rummpd]

hell no. End of discussion.

[tmtcsc]

These days many fans want to trade Murray for Simmons. I'm wondering why. Murray has been improving each season. Next season he could be a 20+ guy with 38+% 3pt percentage. Seems to me this is better than Kawhi at his 5th season. Anyone has data to compare? Like Kawhi, Murray is a gym rat and had strong desire to be the best. Plus, he has the tools. With the Spurs' development system, he may be a super stay like Kawhi. Am I too crazy?

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8542/8625740261_418280bbea_o.gif

[KingKev]

Murray unlikely to be the next Kawhi but he looked pretty good tonight. Expecting further progress from him this year on the offensive end. 3pt shot needs work but the rest of his offensive game is looking silky smooth and Pop seems okay with his loose style of play as he should considering how hard he plays on both sides of the ball.

[John B]

Is he even better than Danny Green as a lockdown defender?

[tmtcsc]

No

[KingKev]

Is he even better than Danny Green as a lockdown defender?

Not far off and that is pretty good company I’d argue. Better than Green at steals/deflections/stripping the ball for sure but Green was an overall better defender is his prime Spurs years.

[raybies]

These days many fans want to trade Murray for Simmons. I'm wondering why. Murray has been improving each season. Next season he could be a 20+ guy with 38+% 3pt percentage. Seems to me this is better than Kawhi at his 5th season. Anyone has data to compare? Like Kawhi, Murray is a gym rat and had strong desire to be the best. Plus, he has the tools. With the Spurs' development system, he may be a super stay like Kawhi. Am I too crazy?

Yeah I feel this right now after watching Murray scrap it out last night. And to your point you could very well be right. I was literally thinking the same, probably not as high as 38 percent from three but at least average.