Young For Saric, Smith And Possibly a 2nd Around Training Camp?

[TD 21]

Questionable source, but: FLEX From Jersey on Twitter: "I'm told Suns are still focused on a Thaddeus Young deal and have offered Smith & Saric. No 1st rd picks being discussed per sources & the most the Suns would add is a 2nd rd pick. League rules causing delays, but a deal could get done around training camp. Negotiations ongoing. https://t.co/QEpy1GVXPu" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/FlexFromJersey/status/1437980597763416070)

[Uriel]

Isn't Jalen Smith the guy the Spurs pretended they were interested in in last year's draft so they could hide their interest in Vassell?

[MultiTroll]

and this moves the needle exactly how?

[Teamduncan21]

wait, that increases our player count.

[Leetonidas]

What league rules are preventing the Spurs from making this move now? As I understand it, Young can be packaged at any time since SA was under the cap when he was received, no?

I just dont see the point of this without Suns coughing up late 1st. Saric isn't even good to begin with and will be out for an entire season and Smith is an unknown. Unless SA is really high on him for some reason there is no reason to make this deal right now or any time soon

[Mr. Body]

What league rules are preventing the Spurs from making this move now? As I understand it, Young can be packaged at any time since SA was under the cap when he was received, no?

I just dont see the point of this without Suns coughing up late 1st. Saric isn't even good to begin with and will be out for an entire season and Smith is an unknown. Unless SA is really high on him for some reason there is no reason to make this deal right now or any time soon

Yeah, all of this. Paying for a dead year of Saric's contract, plus his fit is unclear. Smith is nearly a bust. Even if he could become good, there's a huge logjam in the post for the Spurs right now. And then just a 2nd?

The deal doesn't make sense. If Thaddeus Young has value in the league, wait until the season goes on. Don't get pieces that don't make any sense. Or just keep him and play him.

[exstatic]

What league rules are preventing the Spurs from making this move now? As I understand it, Young can be packaged at any time since SA was under the cap when he was received, no?

I just dont see the point of this without Suns coughing up late 1st. Saric isn't even good to begin with and will be out for an entire season and Smith is an unknown. Unless SA is really high on him for some reason there is no reason to make this deal right now or any time soon

It’s not league rules, it’s good old fashioned common sense. Neither of those players move the needle a micrometer, so the pick would have to be a first, and a 3rd team would have to be involved to take those two players, and ship us one player, so as to not further increase our roster size.

[Chinook]

For roster purposes, Eubanks would have to be in the deal, along with a first from Phoenix. Maybe SA has to give up some seconds to make it even, but they have those extra picks to do that with now.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Meh...

[DPG21920]

I would be flabbergasted if SA did this deal with no first from PHX. Like CHINOOK said, if they need to add a 2nd ok, but:

1) Thad is a better player than Smith. So why would SA eat Dario’s deal and give PHX the better player? Makes little sense.

2) Roster crunch is already happening and if SA did this deal as reported, they would need to cut 3 players.

3) If SA was just doing PHX a solid for cap space reasons, then eating Dario’s deal for Smith (if they really liked Smith as a prospect) makes sense. But you certainly don’t give them Thad for Smith when eating that Saric deal.

[lmbebo]

no 1st, no deal

[Dejounte]

Do it.

[jjspur]

What circus clown is running the spurs front office these days ? That trade doesn't make sense in any way, financial or player wise.

[exstatic]

What circus clown is running the spurs front office these days ? That trade doesn't make sense in any way, financial or player wise.

Uh, this is just the idea of some internet board jagoff.

[CGD]

If there is a 1st for 2nd swap in there, i say you do it yesterday

[objective]

Even with a first, probably in the 25-30 range, this deal is weak.

But it's completely believable with this front office.

They couldn't even squeeze a decent second from Indiana when gifting them a giant trade exception. They pay $4 million for a second but manage to lose Milutinov in the deal.

Only getting bad first or even worse, a crappy second and a nothing player in Smith and a non-playing Saric would be bad, but not too surprising.

[TD 21]

Obviously, they should try including a 2nd to get them to give up a 1st (the range should fall within' 10ish), but I don't see a better offer materializing. The expectactions here are outlandish.

Smith could very well be in the midst of becoming a bust, but it's too early to conclude that based on a 156 minute sample size (this from a board where a fair amount still think Walker IV and Samanic have All-Star potential if not for Pop).

Even though it'd mean possibly two dead roster spots for a season, I could also see the Spurs having interest in Saric for '22-'23 and possibly beyond as something of insurance in the event Samanic can't cut it and Collins can't recover or do so as well.

[KingKev]

What circus clown is running the spurs front office these days ? That trade doesn't make sense in any way, financial or player wise.

Brian Wright has entered the chat.

[Dejounte]

People will swear by the legitimacy of trade rumors that involve the Spurs picking up a top 5 pick from the Warriors or a diva from the Sixers but then scoff at a low key trade such as this one. The Spurs are all but known for small splash moves such as this. Pure comedy.

[Mr. Body]

People will swear by the legitimacy of trade rumors that involve the Spurs picking up a top 5 pick from the Warriors or a diva from the Sixers but then scoff at a low key trade such as this one. The Spurs are all but known for small splash moves such as this. Pure comedy.

For the record, I thought the Wiseman hysteria was laughably bonkers. This trade? There's something clearly to it, and we've been hearing about it since the Pleistocene, but the current iteration is just flat-pancake stupid.

[playblair]

jale smith yes plzzzzzz

[Chomag]

How many players is this team going to have? Lol

[Chinook]

Obviously, they should try including a 2nd to get them to give up a 1st (the range should fall within' 10ish), but I don't see a better offer materializing. The expectactions here are outlandish.

Smith could very well be in the midst of becoming a bust, but it's too early to conclude that based on a 156 minute sample size (this from a board where a fair amount still think Walker IV and Samanic have All-Star potential if not for Pop).

Even though it'd mean possibly two dead roster spots for a season, I could also see the Spurs having interest in Saric for '22-'23 and possibly beyond as something of insurance in the event Samanic can't cut it and Collins can't recover or do so as well.

It's not just the two IR spots. It's the extra player they'd have to cut to make the trade work. Right now, the team still has to cut one of Eubanks, Landale, Samanic and Bates-Diop. If they do this trade, they will either need to include Eubanks or Samanic in the deal or cut an additional member of that foursome. Smith being a meh prospect matters, because they Spurs have to like him more than one of the prospects they already have. Could they? Sure. But if they don't, then the deal is trading a good player AND a better prospect for an injured PF who wasn't highly thought of anyway, a worse prospect and a second. That's not an offer the Spurs should feel bad about passing on. That's an offer that will likely be there later in the year, or in the worst case, it's fine if they just use Thad this year to mentor guys and win more games.

I like Smith just fine, which is why I'd be willing to do this deal if the Suns are willing to compensate the Spurs for the extra player they have to lose to make it work. Upgrading the pick to a first does that. Otherwise, the value just isn't there. Saric might be interesting to the Spurs, but he's clearly negative money, and there's a huge difference between being willing to take a guy for compensation because you like him and taking an IR guy without compensation because you want insurance against the other IR guy you have busting out. That's abysmal asset management.

[TD 21]

It's not just the two IR spots. It's the extra player they'd have to cut to make the trade work. Right now, the team still has to cut one of Eubanks, Landale, Samanic and Bates-Diop. If they do this trade, they will either need to include Eubanks or Samanic in the deal or cut an additional member of that foursome. Smith being a meh prospect matters, because they Spurs have to like him more than one of the prospects they already have. Could they? Sure. But if they don't, then the deal is trading a good player AND a better prospect for an injured PF who wasn't highly thought of anyway, a worse prospect and a second. That's not an offer the Spurs should feel bad about passing on. That's an offer that will likely be there later in the year, or in the worst case, it's fine if they just use Thad this year to mentor guys and win more games.

I like Smith just fine, which is why I'd be willing to do this deal if the Suns are willing to compensate the Spurs for the extra player they have to lose to make it work. Upgrading the pick to a first does that. Otherwise, the value just isn't there. Saric might be interesting to the Spurs, but he's clearly negative money, and there's a huge difference between being willing to take a guy for compensation because you like him and taking an IR guy without compensation because you want insurance against the other IR guy you have busting out. That's abysmal asset management.

True, but as you said, Eubanks could be sent to the Suns or elsewhere or Smith (hard to say his exact worth, but I'm thinking high 2nd, which is basically equivalent to late 1st) could be.

I don't think Young is going to have the value many do for a myriad of reasons: having to match salary, most of the contenders or aspiring ones lack of picks, his age, expiring contract and lack of shooting. Like, in a vaccumm he's a player those types would like to have, but find me another conceivable trade.

Agreed, but this is the Spurs we're talking about. I could absolutely see the holdup being them trying for a 1st outright, then offering a 2nd to get it, then ultimately settling for a 2nd.

[Chinook]

True, but as you said, Eubanks could be sent to the Suns or elsewhere or Smith (hard to say his exact worth, but I'm thinking high 2nd, which is basically equivalent to late 1st) could be.

If Smith is sent elsewhere, then the Spurs are taking Saric for a late-second. That's not good enough.


I don't think Young is going to have the value many do for a myriad of reasons: having to match salary, most of the contenders or aspiring ones lack of picks, his age, expiring contract and lack of shooting. Like, in a vaccumm he's a player those types would like to have, but find me another conceivable trade.

There are trades all over the place. The Suns are a popular partner because they don't have to wait until 12/15 and look to be a clear contender. But especially once all contracts are allowed to be traded, it isn't hard for any team to find enough spare salary. Some might want the Spurs to take on a ton of extra money, but actually being able to bring Young in either as a legit player or as salary relief will be easy.

Part of why people want the Spurs to hold out for a first is because the team would be giving up on option value if Thad is dealt for less right now. What they should be hoping for is Young to play well and some team to feel like he's their missing piece to a title run. If not, some team like Atlanta or Sacramento will be looking at this roster and realize they'd prefer an expiring Thad to the mediocre multi-year guy, even if it doesn't lead to being a contender.

[SAGirl]

The only way this happens is if the Spurs like Saric and Smith more than some projects and injured guys of their own. The roster being this bloated is only their fault. They did not need to sign Zollins or Forbes, and it a questionable what they think of Luka who has had more opportunities than Smith.
Jock might be another Laprovittola, though I am hoping he’s not that and sticks. KBD is a guy they liked and may have signed hoping he pushes Luka anyways (so as to not have the latter feel entitled and without challenge).

Spurs may have very well passed on this deal and are hoping for some better offer for Thad but it s difficult to see where that comes from right now.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

fvcking forbes

[gambit1990]

ST doesn't value thad at all but that's who the suns are targeting to win a championship?

[gambit1990]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQC9qaWE7TI

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It's an OK deal and one that's been discussed for a long time. Of course, I'd rather they hold for a 1st round pick ( Phoenix can offer their 2024 or 2025 first, depending on when they convey this year's pick to OKC ) but there are very few contenders, i.e. teams that'd be interested in Young, who can offer first round picks at all.

I still think Philly would be a great trade partner for Young, post Ben Simmons trade. They're also the only contender who can send a 2022 first.

Because of these reasons I'd expect it to be more realistic getting a young player + 2nd, or two seconds for him.

Btw, I like Saric, even with his injury. I think he'd be an asset a year from now.

[cjw]

It's an OK deal and one that's been discussed for a long time. Of course, I'd rather they hold for a 1st round pick ( Phoenix can offer their 2024 or 2025 first, depending on when they convey this year's pick to OKC ) but there are very few contenders, i.e. teams that'd be interested in Young, who can offer first round picks at all.

I still think Philly would be a great trade partner for Young, post Ben Simmons trade. They're also the only contender who can send a 2022 first.

Because of these reasons I'd expect it to be more realistic getting a young player + 2nd, or two seconds for him.

Btw, I like Saric, even with his injury. I think he'd be an asset a year from now.

Agree on Philly being one of the few other logical trade partners for Young but they probably have other aspirations for their first (especially if they need to package it when trading Simmons to bring back something even bigger).

Saric is nice, but hard to have two guys on the team basically be redshirts for the full year, particularly when one of your other 15 guys is almost certain to spend almost the entire season in Austin. 12 players plus one in Austin plus two two-ways is not going to cut it if other injuries occur.

[Leetonidas]

ST doesn't value thad at all but that's who the suns are targeting to win a championship?

ST values Thad as one of the better trade chips that we have. We all know he is a very good player, but he is probably worth more to another team than to SA given where our team is projected to end in the standings

[DPG21920]

It's an OK deal and one that's been discussed for a long time. Of course, I'd rather they hold for a 1st round pick ( Phoenix can offer their 2024 or 2025 first, depending on when they convey this year's pick to OKC ) but there are very few contenders, i.e. teams that'd be interested in Young, who can offer first round picks at all.

I still think Philly would be a great trade partner for Young, post Ben Simmons trade. They're also the only contender who can send a 2022 first.

Because of these reasons I'd expect it to be more realistic getting a young player + 2nd, or two seconds for him.

Btw, I like Saric, even with his injury. I think he'd be an asset a year from now.

POR, BOS, PHI and PHX all make sense IMO…but they should be getting a first unless the young prospect they are getting back is highly regarded and Smith is not.

Saric may be able to net a pick next year though..

[Spursfanfromafar]

Naa. Young is a bit more valuable than that. If Suns aren't offering a 1st rounder, the Spurs shouldn't budge. They should let Young play a while..his market value will only rise further if there is no deal with the Suns.

[Chinook]

Saric was a meh player when healthy. He's a long way from his draft hype. Folks shouldn't be banking on him having value next year.

[TD 21]

If Smith is sent elsewhere, then the Spurs are taking Saric for a late-second. That's not good enough.



There are trades all over the place. The Suns are a popular partner because they don't have to wait until 12/15 and look to be a clear contender. But especially once all contracts are allowed to be traded, it isn't hard for any team to find enough spare salary. Some might want the Spurs to take on a ton of extra money, but actually being able to bring Young in either as a legit player or as salary relief will be easy.

Part of why people want the Spurs to hold out for a first is because the team would be giving up on option value if Thad is dealt for less right now. What they should be hoping for is Young to play well and some team to feel like he's their missing piece to a title run. If not, some team like Atlanta or Sacramento will be looking at this roster and realize they'd prefer an expiring Thad to the mediocre multi-year guy, even if it doesn't lead to being a contender.

As I said, my guess is Smith's current value is an early 2nd.

Name one. I get the sense that Young's ultimate value will be two 2nds (one early). Off the top, Fournier, Oladipo (damaged goods, but still), Drummond, Fultz (unique case, but still) and Evans are all recent examples of players who either went for markedly less than expected or didn't go at all because that's all they could fetch.

They'd also be ensuring they get something before he potentially either declines or gets an injury significant enough to lessen or altogether torpedo his value, which with their luck will probably happen. He's also not a good fit in a lot of ways.

[itzsoweezee]

This would basically be a deal of Young for Smith. Young could almost certainly get the Spurs a first round pick. Is Smith a first round type of talent? No one seems to know.

[Dex]

Gotta go with the group here. This would be selling low just for the sake of making a move.

Spurs can do better.

[cd021]

For roster purposes, Eubanks would have to be in the deal, along with a first from Phoenix. Maybe SA has to give up some seconds to make it even, but they have those extra picks to do that with now.

I agree that Eubanks could be included in a deal, though not sure why the Spurs would have to give up a pick. Young and Eubanks for Smith, Saric, and 2024 lottery protected 1st is pretty fair tbh.

Phoenix would be essentially be swapping out an injured 4/5 for a heathy 4/5 and swapping out Smith for an upgrade in Eubanks. Maybe a compromise would be letting PHX protect the 2024 pick and making it top 20 protected instead of the typical lottery protected.

[cd021]

Naa. Young is a bit more valuable than that. If Suns aren't offering a 1st rounder, the Spurs shouldn't budge. They should let Young play a while..his market value will only rise further if there is no deal with the Suns.

Then teams would only be getting him for like a third or a half of the seasons. So teams likely wouldn't give up a first for him then. There's also the risk of injury or him declining.

[Degoat]

Any team that gives up an actual first round pick for Thad young is fcking nuts lmao, nobody trades first round picks anymore unless it’s for a star player or maybe a young player

[cjw]

Any team that gives up an actual first round pick for Thad young is fcking nuts lmao, nobody trades first round picks anymore unless it’s for a star player or maybe a young player

Nuts or desperate. Young was really good last season but think a first is a stretch. Remember though, we are probably talking about a pick in the 22-30 range from a team like Phoenix.

I think Young is better aggregated with other pieces as part of a larger trade. A second isn’t enough for him, especially if absorbing salary beyond this year.

[Chinook]

As I said, my guess is Smith's current value is an early 2nd.

Name one. I get the sense that Young's ultimate value will be two 2nds (one early). Off the top, Fournier, Oladipo (damaged goods, but still), Drummond, Fultz (unique case, but still) and Evans are all recent examples of players who either went for markedly less than expected or didn't go at all because that's all they could fetch.

They'd also be ensuring they get something before he potentially either declines or gets an injury significant enough to lessen or altogether torpedo his value, which with their luck will probably happen. He's also not a good fit in a lot of ways.

Finding a team that'd take him for cap space AND offer a good second is really hard. More likely the best the Spurs could do is cuttable salary and a decent second or a similar prospects, which doesn't help address the issue.

It's trivially easy to find trades for Young. He's a 6-8 high-impact defensive player. I can't think of a team that wouldn't want to add one of those guys. There are as many trades as there are ballast pieces to move. It would be one thing if you were trying to limit the options to teams that would give a first or teams that wouldn't send bad money back. But the Suns deal you proposed does neither of those things, and trades of bad money and bad seconds are all over the place.

The Spurs don't need to "get something". STers should've learned from DeRozan that PATFO doesn't care about letting a guy walk. If Young is a good player for the Spurs then signs elsewhere as a free agent, that's fine. The Spurs didn't "lose" anything. They just used his value for themselves rather than selling it. This isn't like with Simmons where the Spurs are trying to trade Young but playing hard ball for value. We've gotten no indication they want to move him at all, and he's not doing anything to make them. So having him help the Spurs win games this year is the default state of being. The Spurs need to get something good enough to overcome that state, and your deal isn't that.

[Mr. Body]

Nuts or desperate. Young was really good last season but think a first is a stretch. Remember though, we are probably talking about a pick in the 22-30 range from a team like Phoenix.

I think Young is better aggregated with other pieces as part of a larger trade. A second isn’t enough for him, especially if absorbing salary beyond this year.

If Phoenix had better frontcourt players, they might have won the chip last year. That's the entire point. There are teams that are close and getting the right piece could push them over the edge.

[exstatic]

Any team that gives up an actual first round pick for Thad young is fcking nuts lmao, nobody trades first round picks anymore unless it’s for a star player or maybe a young player

That’s not even remotely true. High picks, sure. A non lottery first rounder to plug a perceived hole in a contender? Absolutely.

[Chinook]

Any team that gives up an actual first round pick for Thad young is fcking nuts lmao, nobody trades first round picks anymore unless it’s for a star player or maybe a young player

Wait, firsts are traded all the time. It's usually not for superstars either. Yes, it's not very realistic to expect the Spurs to get a first and expirings for Young. But it's not hard at all to imagine them getting a first if they trade Young for bad money like in this proposed deal. The only way it's even feasible without the first is if the Spurs love Smith. Otherwise, it's not even a positive package.

[The Truth #6]

https://247sports.com/college/maryland/Article/Jalen-Smith-surging-for-Phoenix-Suns-in-NBA-Summer-League-but-positional-questions-remain-169115477/

How one feels about Jalen Smith seems to be a swing factor in the proposed trade, well, in addition to other factors. This article suggests progress and less bust.

[cd021]

Nuts or desperate. Young was really good last season but think a first is a stretch. Remember though, we are probably talking about a pick in the 22-30 range from a team like Phoenix.

I think Young is better aggregated with other pieces as part of a larger trade. A second isn’t enough for him, especially if absorbing salary beyond this year.

I do like the idea of packaging Young and Eubanks for Smith, Saric and a first. Phoenix gets two upgrades and saves on long-term salary while really only giving up a future first (lottery protected in 2024)


If Phoenix had better frontcourt players, they might have won the chip last year. That's the entire point. There are teams that are close and getting the right piece could push them over the edge.

Yeah, Phoenix basically has been a non factor for at least a decade. They nearly won last season, so it makes sense for them to be aggressive so they can try and win next year.

[TD 21]

Finding a team that'd take him for cap space AND offer a good second is really hard. More likely the best the Spurs could do is cuttable salary and a decent second or a similar prospects, which doesn't help address the issue.

It's trivially easy to find trades for Young. He's a 6-8 high-impact defensive player. I can't think of a team that wouldn't want to add one of those guys. There are as many trades as there are ballast pieces to move. It would be one thing if you were trying to limit the options to teams that would give a first or teams that wouldn't send bad money back. But the Suns deal you proposed does neither of those things, and trades of bad money and bad seconds are all over the place.

The Spurs don't need to "get something". STers should've learned from DeRozan that PATFO doesn't care about letting a guy walk. If Young is a good player for the Spurs then signs elsewhere as a free agent, that's fine. The Spurs didn't "lose" anything. They just used his value for themselves rather than selling it. This isn't like with Simmons where the Spurs are trying to trade Young but playing hard ball for value. We've gotten no indication they want to move him at all, and he's not doing anything to make them. So having him help the Spurs win games this year is the default state of being. The Spurs need to get something good enough to overcome that state, and your deal isn't that.

Not necessarily. The Thunder have a million picks, essentially an open roster spot and a need at center, so they might be interested. The Timberwolves have a need at power forward, so if they foolishly think he can play it, they might be too (would have to include Okogie or Layman, but maybe a team like the Raptors, with open spots, is interested in one of them). Obviously, most likely the Spurs would have to be interested in Smith though.

In other words, you don't have one.

Except I didn't propose one, I explained that this is about what I expect Young to fetch.

They should absolutely want to though.

Wrong. That could contribute to winning a few more games, messing up their draft odds and limiting Vassell/blocking Samanic. His only value to them should be in what he can get them in return and they'd be wise to maximize it now.

[cjw]

Yeah, Phoenix basically has been a non factor for at least a decade. They nearly won last season, so it makes sense for them to be aggressive so they can try and win next year.

People talk about the Sixers needing to maximize Embiid’s prime in the other thread

The Suns are the Sixers x 100 here, as they should be pushing every chip to the middle as their window = as long as CP3 is himself. If they lose again in the finals or late in playoffs, are they going to say “geez at least we didn’t trade a 2024 pick when CP3 is almost 40”? No

[The Truth #6]

It’s true. Desperate win now teams are who we should try to advantage of. Star player movement is so rapid that GMs tend to get impulsive when the window is briefly open, especially large market teams.

[Drom John]

Wait, firsts are traded all the time. It's usually not for superstars either. Yes, it's not very realistic to expect the Spurs to get a first and expirings for Young. But it's not hard at all to imagine them getting a first if they trade Young for bad money like in this proposed deal. The only way it's even feasible without the first is if the Spurs love Smith. Otherwise, it's not even a positive package.

This offseason:
Portland traded lottery protected 1st for Larry Nance Jr.
Bulls traded future 1st for DeMar DeRozan
Two firsts swapped in three team trade between Pelicans, Grizzlies, Hornets
Jazz traded future 1st to Thunder for taking Derrick Favors
Rockets traded two future 1sts to move up to draft Alperen Sengun
Hornets trade future 1st to move up to draft Kai Jones

[cjw]

Wait, firsts are traded all the time. It's usually not for superstars either. Yes, it's not very realistic to expect the Spurs to get a first and expirings for Young. But it's not hard at all to imagine them getting a first if they trade Young for bad money like in this proposed deal. The only way it's even feasible without the first is if the Spurs love Smith. Otherwise, it's not even a positive package.

Let’s also not forget that Smith isn’t exactly on a bargain deal either. Being picked ahead of Vassell, he’s due $4.7 and $6.0 million the next two years.

That eats into possible cap space next offseason, which even if the Spurs aren’t using to sign anyone we have seen they can be creative with.

Now if they are super high on him and have a plan, then it’s worth taking a swing while at the same time probably also making your own draft pick better this year.

[SAGirl]

Let’s also not forget that Smith isn’t exactly on a bargain deal either. Being picked ahead of Vassell, he’s due $4.7 and $6.0 million the next two years.

That eats into possible cap space next offseason, which even if the Spurs aren’t using to sign anyone we have seen they can be creative with.

Now if they are super high on him and have a plan, then it’s worth taking a swing while at the same time probably also making your own draft pick better this year.
If the Spurs really liked Smith, the size of his rookie deal shouldn’t be a problem. They just dumped money on an injured Zollins because he’s still young and they see some potential. At least Smith is healthy and younger, with some untapped potential, Zollins has gotten more opportunities and been mediocre…

[exstatic]

If the Spurs really liked Smith, the size of his rookie deal shouldn’t be a problem. They just dumped money on an injured Zollins because he’s still young and they see some potential. At least Smith is healthy and younger, with some untapped potential, Zollins has gotten more opportunities and been mediocre…

The one thing Zollins has is a really good drtg at the rim. He isn’t a premier shot blocker, but then again, neither was Splitter.

[Chinook]

Not necessarily. The Thunder have a million picks, essentially an open roster spot and a need at center, so they might be interested. The Timberwolves have a need at power forward, so if they foolishly think he can play it, they might be too (would have to include Okogie or Layman, but maybe a team like the Raptors, with open spots, is interested in one of them). Obviously, most likely the Spurs would have to be interested in Smith though.

The Thunder are the only team with reasonable cap space, and they aren't likely to sell it for cheap. They certainly aren't a team that's going to pay "fair value" when they're in a leverage position.



In other words, you don't have one.

No, in other words, I'm not going to list every team in the league and what they'd be willing to trade, because it's trivially easy to come up with examples. When you have the Spurs taking on bad money and getting back no value for a good expiring contract, the parameters are just too wide open. There's nothing unique about Phoenix other than them having an IR contract they want to get rid of.


Except I didn't propose one, I explained that this is about what I expect Young to fetch.

So you did propose this trade by virtue of making a thread on it. I didn't say you came up with the idea.


They should absolutely want to though.

No, they should want to be the best team they can be. That doesn't mean getting worse on the court for a late-second.


Wrong. That could contribute to winning a few more games, messing up their draft odds and limiting Vassell/blocking Samanic. His only value to them should be in what he can get them in return and they'd be wise to maximize it now.

So no. YOU want them to lose games and tank. We get that. They want to win games, so him helping them do that is providing them value. You should be able to step outside of what you think they should do and look at them objectively. If they win 43 games instead of 38 games or whatever, then that's objective value he adds. And they can choose to use that value or convert it. Both of those are options, even if you REALLY hope them do the second thing.

[Chinook]

Let’s also not forget that Smith isn’t exactly on a bargain deal either. Being picked ahead of Vassell, he’s due $4.7 and $6.0 million the next two years.

That eats into possible cap space next offseason, which even if the Spurs aren’t using to sign anyone we have seen they can be creative with.

Now if they are super high on him and have a plan, then it’s worth taking a swing while at the same time probably also making your own draft pick better this year.

Exactly. I don't know whether this is a bad deal or not, but if the Spurs don't like him, they shouldn't do this trade. Players aren't random numbers. Drafting isn't a lottery. On the aggregate, you can break things down in terms of odds, but when it comes to specific players or acquisitions, you have to look at them as actual people with strengths, weaknesses and developmental plans. Smith doesn't have a 10-percent chance of being good or whatever. That's just Vegas-style handicapping. So the Spurs either believe in Smith or they don't. Whether they take him or not will be based on that, not on some antiquated notion of "collecting assets and seeing what happens".

[DPG21920]

Saric was a meh player when healthy. He's a long way from his draft hype. Folks shouldn't be banking on him having value next year.

Ya I’m not banking on it and it in no way should influence sas thinking. Was purely speculation that he may net a 2nd next year.

[DPG21920]

And from what I’m gathering I think Thad is the only player this off season not to have reported to SA? May be wrong but if true wonder if they have an agreement to keep him away (nothing malicious or bad, just a mutual agreement) while they work things out so he doesn’t have to unnecessarily travel and he can just keep working out?

[wildbill2u]

Doesn't all this talk about trading Young depend on where he might land in the rotation. Is he projected as a starter at PF? If not, who? I'm not a mind reader of the coaches but it seems like he is probably at least as good or better than anyone else on the roster at that position??? I'd sure like to see him play a few pre-season games before deciding to trade him for anyone who is currently injured or for a future draft choice below a first.

[TD 21]

The Thunder are the only team with reasonable cap space, and they aren't likely to sell it for cheap. They certainly aren't a team that's going to pay "fair value" when they're in a leverage position.

No, in other words, I'm not going to list every team in the league and what they'd be willing to trade, because it's trivially easy to come up with examples. When you have the Spurs taking on bad money and getting back no value for a good expiring contract, the parameters are just too wide open. There's nothing unique about Phoenix other than them having an IR contract they want to get rid of.

No, they should want to be the best team they can be. That doesn't mean getting worse on the court for a late-second.

So no. YOU want them to lose games and tank. We get that. They want to win games, so him helping them do that is providing them value. You should be able to step outside of what you think they should do and look at them objectively. If they win 43 games instead of 38 games or whatever, then that's objective value he adds. And they can choose to use that value or convert it. Both of those are options, even if you REALLY hope them do the second thing.

It's possible the Thunder see value in Smith and are willing to give up a decent 2nd.

So easy that you can't come up with one, yet you're going to pontificate while attempting to confuse platitutes for fact.

Starless, non glamour teams shouldn't perenially aspire to pick in the late lottery/mid round. Again, they'd have to see value in Smith or what he could fetch and potentially Saric eventually; not the late 2nd.

As usual, I'm being objective. You might notice if you were capable of taking a break from your usual condescending, smartest guy in the room routine and realize you're shooting the messanger.

[gambit1990]

don’t be any rush at all to move him.

wait until other teams get desperate after they see how badly the lakers destroy teams.

[Chinook]

It's possible the Thunder see value in Smith and are willing to give up a decent 2nd.

They'd only give up a decent second if he's worth more than that. They aren't going to pay full price for him. So unless the Spurs and Thunder have dramatically different ideas of a player's value, Smith will probably have to be good enough of a prospect for the Spurs to want to keep for them to get that pick you want for him.


So easy that you can't come up with one, yet you're going to pontificate while attempting to confuse platitutes for fact.

So wait, are you confusing your speculation and "reads" as facts? This whole thread is based on you combining conjecture with your prescriptive view on how the Spurs should be operating. I'm refusing to engage with the idea that Phoenix offering nothing and bad salary is so close to the most the Spurs could expect that they shouldn't go into the season to see if they could do better. A guy playing the position of biggest need in the league, who is coming off a great year and on an expiring contract is one of the closest things to pure value you're going to get. It's like trying to argue that I come up with a specific trade for the Spurs' first-rounder lest we default to believing only one team offering crap is interested in it.


Starless, non glamour teams shouldn't perenially aspire to pick in the late lottery/mid round. Again, they'd have to see value in Smith or what he could fetch and potentially Saric eventually; not the late 2nd.


The first part is merely your opinion, and we've debated that long enough to where you can probably forgive me for not addressing it again here. The second thing is the crux of the issue, and no one has disagreed with that. Well, Saric has no value no matter what. He's not going to get an asset worth having wasted cap space and cut another player to hold onto. But Smith being valuable will determine if the trade in this thread would be worth it. But the second-rounder is supposed to protect against Smith being a meh prospect, and it just doesn't do that.


As usual, I'm being objective. You might notice if you were capable of taking a break from your usual condescending, smartest guy in the room routine and realize you're shooting the messanger.

You aren't being objective, and your attempt to steer into an ad homenim is lame. You should own up to the fact that you have opinions and are free to state them, defend them and keep believing them without them being objective fact. You, I and everyone else on ST basically come here to squirt our opinions at each other and potentially support and speculate off them. It's all good. But you are having a hard time separating what you think the Spurs should do from what they want to do. It's cool being disappointed in what they might potentially do, but the question of whether the Spurs should trade Young or keep him is subjective, and you taking a side and then claiming objectivity undercuts you more than supports your position.

[ismael-robert]

Chinooks right yalls opinions are just squirt...either from front or back still just squirt...yall just speculating all over da place making it a huge mess...yall speculate too much n yall go blind

[John B]

Chinooks right yalls opinions are just squirt...either from front or back still just squirt...yall just speculating all over da place making it a huge mess...yall speculate too much n yall go blind
Dude what else do we do in ST? :lol:toast

[TD 21]

They'd only give up a decent second if he's worth more than that. They aren't going to pay full price for him. So unless the Spurs and Thunder have dramatically different ideas of a player's value, Smith will probably have to be good enough of a prospect for the Spurs to want to keep for them to get that pick you want for him.



So wait, are you confusing your speculation and "reads" as facts? This whole thread is based on you combining conjecture with your prescriptive view on how the Spurs should be operating. I'm refusing to engage with the idea that Phoenix offering nothing and bad salary is so close to the most the Spurs could expect that they shouldn't go into the season to see if they could do better. A guy playing the position of biggest need in the league, who is coming off a great year and on an expiring contract is one of the closest things to pure value you're going to get. It's like trying to argue that I come up with a specific trade for the Spurs' first-rounder lest we default to believing only one team offering crap is interested in it.



The first part is merely your opinion, and we've debated that long enough to where you can probably forgive me for not addressing it again here. The second thing is the crux of the issue, and no one has disagreed with that. Well, Saric has no value no matter what. He's not going to get an asset worth having wasted cap space and cut another player to hold onto. But Smith being valuable will determine if the trade in this thread would be worth it. But the second-rounder is supposed to protect against Smith being a meh prospect, and it just doesn't do that.



You aren't being objective, and your attempt to steer into an ad homenim is lame. You should own up to the fact that you have opinions and are free to state them, defend them and keep believing them without them being objective fact. You, I and everyone else on ST basically come here to squirt our opinions at each other and potentially support and speculate off them. It's all good. But you are having a hard time separating what you think the Spurs should do from what they want to do. It's cool being disappointed in what they might potentially do, but the question of whether the Spurs should trade Young or keep him is subjective, and you taking a side and then claiming objectivity undercuts you more than supports your position.

And he might be.

Except I never said that.

No, I'm saying since you're so dismissive of my read, I'd imagine it'd be easy to come up with a single example to the contrary but we've established you can't.

Already said as much. You're just so determined to dispute everything I said that you're not even comprehending it.

:lmao So they should want to collect as many picks as possible that are unlikely to yield a foundational player?

Again, never said otherwise. Said I could see the Spurs not viewing him as purely an albatross.

:lmao At accusing me of all people of being a shrinking violet. Typical smug, convuluted, condescending psychobabble. When I said objective, I mean in this specific hypothetical, not in terms of trading Young in general.

[Biggems]

Jalen Smith is only 21...he was still quite raw coming out of Maryland. He dominated in Summer League apparently. I know that it is just summer league, but Spurs fans cream their pants when one of our players dominate the SL. I would have no issue with the Spurs acquiring him via trade.

Still, I would like to see how Thad fits this team to be honest. Maybe he can give us a Boris-lite type of role. If he can be anything close to Boris, huge score for our time. He offers what we need....quality defense at the 3-5 positions, good passer, and timely scorer. Also, his BBIQ, veteran leadership, and on-court demeanor are quite valuable.

[SAGirl]

And from what I’m gathering I think Thad is the only player this off season not to have reported to SA? May be wrong but if true wonder if they have an agreement to keep him away (nothing malicious or bad, just a mutual agreement) while they work things out so he doesn’t have to unnecessarily travel and he can just keep working out?
I don't think an agreement like that happens without Thad himself wanting a trade. It would be similar to Dieng wanting out from the Grizzlies last season. It wasn't even about him wanting to play for a contender. It was about playing time. The Grizzlies were in the middle of a youth movement and playing a bunch of young bigs, and regardless of outcome, whether they won or lost, playing Dieng wasn't a priority for them. He wasn't washed and was in an expiring deal. They hoped to trade him, but were ultimately unable to get adequate compensation for him and waived him to do right by him.

Thad's situation just reminds me too much of Dieng's. If the Spurs are committed to developing all the young bigs they have signed, Thad isn't going to be interested in riding the bench behind worse (but hopefully improving) young players when he still has gas in the tank, plus he's in a contract year. I think if that's the case he will be pushing for a trade from the very beginning and his value will not necessarily improve.

That kind of makes me feel more urgency about trading. Now if the Spurs are interested in Thad to keep and play it changes the conversation, but it doesn't seem that way right now as you said.

In any case, this trade didn't happen. Maybe Simmons is still in play and the Spurs are holding on to Thad for that reason.