Grades: Spurs at Pistons - Oct. 6, 2021

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-at-detroit-pistons-preseason-game-2/

*slowly shakes head*

[KobesAchilles]

Article: Bryn Forbes adjusting to life off the bench
11:59 on the clock in the 1st Quarter
:pop: Time Out!!! Lonnie wtf was that bullshit effort. Sit your ass on the bench. Bryn get in here

Pop already in regular season mode :lol

[SAGirl]

We are shaking our heads right with you and trying to make sense of this. My comments are all over ... thanks for the grades as always.:toast

[EasyMoney]

It's the preseason. The team is in rebuilding mode. Why not throw everything at the wall and see what sticks? Sub Luka in the 1st and see how we meshes with vassell and walker. Sub in primo and see if he could capitalize off the momentum from game 1 come on, man...

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Et tu LJ?

[SAGirl]

The team is in rebuilding mode.

Pop may be in denial that the team is in rebuilding mode.

Realistically he had some vets to evaluate, because the team still needs to cut two players, so this was the game he chose to give a lot of minutes to Thad and Aminu. At least that is the way I see it, but it wasn't a pretty picture.

[John B]

Thanks for the grades Timvp. I didn’t get to watch the 1st game, and last night only from a Chinese YouTube feed which wasn’t as clear, so I barely could see the plays. But what I saw last night was more like a pickup game. As mentioned grom another thread, Poeltl touches were very predictable, he would pass the ball. I was dissappointed not to see Luka more a C because his PNR with Primo was more cohesive. There was a threat of possibly shooting it from beyond the arch, drive it or take a mid-range. From what I saw, I was pretty happy with the defense of Luka and Jock together.

[BillMc]

Thanks OP.

[acoelho1]

Pop is still acting like Timmy, Tony & Manu are still on the team where we have the luxury of developing our players slowly or more like a snail's pace. It makes no sense to play Primo and Samanic so little and players only get better by playing.. it's that simple.

[raybies]

Great stuff man. Kind of opened my eyes to different aspects and that was pretty cool...., but when you used preternatural in a sentence around these parts it kind of gave me a mindgasm. Pretty hot.

The last paragraph pretty much summed it up.. Great read and very entertaining. That's why I come here. Best takes in all Spurs fandom, albeit all the trash cans and dumpster fires that take up residence here.

[Dex]

My only hope is that Pop gave Aminu and Young more run this game because they got hardly any play against Utah. Instead of giving everyone on the bench a scattered 5-10 minutes, he's spreading it around so that certain guys for certain games can get 10-15 minutes at a time on the floor. Unfortunately, that means other guys who previously got those 15 minutes (like Primo or Samanic) are reduced to garbage time.

It does raise a question about any trade plans...particularly for Young.

It's preseason, and we still have a few more games to figure out what the rotation is ACTUALLY going to look like. I wouldn't be surprised if White or Walker or Poeltl or anybody else (probably not Forbes) gets rested next game just so Pop can play mad scientist...but I'm going to reserve any judgement until we see what the actual regular season rotation looks like.

[rjv]

I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes but pop is pulling a larry brown/darko milocic with luka (of course, it turns out that darko was quite a headache off the court). Basically, I have no idea what Luka is like regarding his coachability and his work ethic but if this is just Pop being stubborn, I'm not happy with that. Every time I see Luka, I see samples of a nice skill set. So why he's being given garbage minutes in pre-season is beyond me. And I agree in regards to Primo. One can only hope these two are going to get some more significant minutes in some of the preseason games. I guess if I really want to look on the bright side, our G-League team would be pretty damn good if Primo and Luka headed it. :rolleyes

[emanueldavidginobili]

Sick and tired of Pop, this team desperately needs a new face and a younger one whose relatable to these kids. Would have loved to have been able to get someone like Ime Udoka. It's preseason ffs how are we two games in and the 19th overall pick a couple years ago cant get on the court when it matters just even a little bit. 51 combined minutes for Aminu, Young and Forbes in a preseason game Wtf are we doing here?

Im really pulling for Derrick White but god damn he's 27 years old, just seems like he can't get over that hump everyone expects him to. His ceiling is low at this point and I don't see him improving his game much from here on out. Solid all around player but damn I had high expectations for him and I don't think he'll ever get there.

[spurraider21]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-at-detroit-pistons-preseason-game-2/

*slowly shakes head*
https://c.tenor.com/ewF7bKrwGAEAAAAC/bunk-headshake.gif

[JeffDuncan]

It's no surprise Primo got less time, and only late in the game. In the first preseason game he answered basic questions about himself. Is he really an NBA player in prospect? Yes. Is he worth the Spurs time (and money?) Yes. No need to see a lot of him in the second game to answer those questions.

There are other serious questions now, mainly related to the roster size. Two players have to go. The roster has to be at regular season size on the 18th, since the RS begins on the 19th. The Spurs have to look at players other than Primo.

Eleven days, counting today. The clock is ticking, fast. The Spurs have to focus intently on players who might be cut.

[TDomination]

Pop may be in denial that the team is in rebuilding mode.

Realistically he had some vets to evaluate, because the team still needs to cut two players, so this was the game he chose to give a lot of minutes to Thad and Aminu. At least that is the way I see it, but it wasn't a pretty picture.

next game will be telling with pops minute distributions

[TDomination]

Sick and tired of Pop, this team desperately needs a new face and a younger one whose relatable to these kids. Would have loved to have been able to get someone like Ime Udoka. It's preseason ffs how are we two games in and the 19th overall pick a couple years ago cant get on the court when it matters just even a little bit. 51 combined minutes for Aminu, Young and Forbes in a preseason game Wtf are we doing here?

Im really pulling for Derrick White but god damn he's 27 years old, just seems like he can't get over that hump everyone expects him to. His ceiling is low at this point and I don't see him improving his game much from here on out. Solid all around player but damn I had high expectations for him and I don't think he'll ever get there.

white seems to always takes a few games to get going. the problem with him is since 2018, evertime he does get going he gets injured. so really only time will tell with DWhite.

[weebo]

it's preseason...winning the preseason championship isn't the objective...gotta throw them out there and see what works

[Degoat]

Once Tre Jones is back and healthy, primo won’t see any minutes what so ever probably lol #PinchePop

[exstatic]

I hate to break this to you, but Primo is in Austin this year. He had a nice SL, where no one cares about playing defense, and was inserted halfway thru the 3rd Q in game one, when he was up against deep bench guys who didn’t care about playing defense. He’s 18 years old, and is not physically or mentally ready for the NBA.

[SAGirl]

It's no surprise Primo got less time, and only late in the game. In the first preseason game he answered basic questions about himself. Is he really an NBA player in prospect? Yes. Is he worth the Spurs time (and money?) Yes. No need to see a lot of him in the second game to answer those questions.

There are other serious questions now, mainly related to the roster size. Two players have to go. The roster has to be at regular season size on the 18th, since the RS begins on the 19th. The Spurs have to look at players other than Primo.

Eleven days, counting today. The clock is ticking, fast. The Spurs have to focus intently on players who might be cut.
Your opinion is basically what I am thinking. The Spurs will need to cut two players and frankly it looks like whoever they decide to cut can play the game. Several players look on an even field. I wasn't any more impressed by Thad than by Aminu. They looked about the same, Thad was better because Aminu lost some lateral movement and seems a little heavier than he used to be... but honestly they were about the same to me and Thad and Drew together wasn't a good combination because Drew sucked at rim protection.... I thought he was awful on D and was taken advantage of every time he was taken to the rack. Jock was better.

I'd keep Samanic because he's 21 years old and has shown some competency at the game, nothing spectacular just enough to where I think he should get more chances to see what he can do against better competition.

So Pop is in a bind, if he wants to keep Samanic, he has to cut two of KBD, Aminu, or Drew.

I know Drew has a lot of fans and he's really a competitive guy but I was turned off by his lack of rim protection. I think Jock can do a better job and one has to consider that Zollins will also be back. I'd give the Drew center minutes to Jock, and play Young with him until he's traded later midseason. When he's traded, then usher in Samanic and lets see what he can do the rest of the season. That would be my recommendation assuming Pop hasn't soured on Luka for some "cancerous" reason.

Alternatively, if you must keep Drew (he’s good enough to keep in the bench if the Spurs didn’t find themselves in this predicament) the it’s likely Aminu and KBD. But we'll see how this goes.

[Sugus]

Spurs getting Pop'd was predictable, I wasn't expecting it so soon though. Glad I missed the game beyond the 1st quarter. We'll see what happens next time, but I'm expecting little at this point regarding positive rotations and cohesive schemes.

I know what some ST folks think on this, but come on - Becky can't be this bad, can he? Hand the reigns over, Pop... It's about damn time.

[cd98]

I hate to break this to you, but Primo is in Austin this year. He had a nice SL, where no one cares about playing defense, and was inserted halfway thru the 3rd Q in game one, when he was up against deep bench guys who didn’t care about playing defense. He’s 18 years old, and is not physically or mentally ready for the NBA.

Right, because he went to college a year early, age-wise, it would be almost like he was going to the NBA straight out of high school. Most guys that young would not make a big dent in the NBA their first year. Really, the only example I can think of that involved a player that young coming in and being a good player right from go was LeBron. So going to the G-League is the right move and the best for him for his career.

We have a lot of young talent that we still don't know what they are because Pop refused to play them last year. He spent too many minutes playing vets to get a shot at a playin. So we can let a first year guy that is 18 years old play a year in the G-League so we can evaluate Vassell, Jones, and hopefully Luka, though he may be done here. But if Luka gets cut and goes elsewhere and becomes a good player, then it will be Pop's fault for refusing to play the guy at all last year in favor of Rudy Gay.

[Leetonidas]

Solid write up OP. Paragraph on Pop probably sums up most of our feelings

[pad300]

I hate to break this to you, but Primo is in Austin this year. He had a nice SL, where no one cares about playing defense, and was inserted halfway thru the 3rd Q in game one, when he was up against deep bench guys who didn’t care about playing defense. He’s 18 years old, and is not physically or mentally ready for the NBA.

The other reason that Primo will be in Austin this year is reps. To become what y'all envisions (and what they want him to become, a high option on offense), he needs reps, lots of them, as the first option. Because he hasn't been a high option at any level higher than HS ball. He's not going to get those reps in the NBA, because of DJ, White, Keldon ... (Bryn, FVCK!)

[emanueldavidginobili]

I hate to break this to you, but Primo is in Austin this year. He had a nice SL, where no one cares about playing defense, and was inserted halfway thru the 3rd Q in game one, when he was up against deep bench guys who didn’t care about playing defense. He’s 18 years old, and is not physically or mentally ready for the NBA.
If we're comparing other 18 year olds I agree but I don't know man theres always someone that defeats the odds of coming in really young and being able to contribute. I haven't seen a single thing that tells me he's not ready physically or mentally based of what i've seen with my eyes. Any game i've watched so far with him I haven't seen him nervous and he's got to any spot he wants. Yeah competition hasn't been great but he's passed the eye test IMO. He's looked better than any other Spurs prospect in years besides Derrick who was 5 years older than him his rookie year. His feel of the game is unreal at this age.

[Spurs Homer]

Look at the bright side:

preseason is almost over!


bwahahahahahahaha!

primo and luka will just be held back until 2024!

[Chomag]

Kobe played in the NBA at 18 years of age and he turned out allright.

[KobesAchilles]

How often is he going to bench Forbes by staring him in the second half?

[MultiTroll]

Been about 30 or so 18 year olds in the past and most have done quite well.
About 20 more this past year or two.
I don't know how to clean up the whole list, maybe one of you tech superiors can.

list of youngest players in NBA history - Bing (https://www.bing.com/search?q=list+of+youngest+players+in+NBA+history&cvid=999be0ec3c1643d3bba7895fa372beda&aqs=edge..69i57.12204j0j1&pglt=43&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=U531)



Partial list:
Andrew Bynum
Jermaine O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Darko Miličić
Bill Willoughby
Tracy McGrady
Andris Biedriņš
C. J. Miles
Amir Johnson
Darryl Dawkins
Jonathan Bender
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Eddy Curry
Dwight Howard

[MultiTroll]

Now as to whether Primo is ready or not, that would take some insider Spurs info IMO.

'Tis true that switching from 30 games a year to 82 is huge.
I can see both sides of the coin. If he is not going to be playing, get reps at Austin.
OTOH since he will be a part of the Spurs future barring Grandpas continuing control freak / senility why not start off with the A team.

[tim_duncan_fan]

The other reason that Primo will be in Austin this year is reps. To become what y'all envisions (and what they want him to become, a high option on offense), he needs reps, lots of them, as the first option. Because he hasn't been a high option at any level higher than HS ball. He's not going to get those reps in the NBA, because of DJ, White, Keldon ... (Bryn, FVCK!)

Shit, he can take their reps. The only one out of the group you mentioned who really wants those reps is Bryn and there is no point in giving them to him.

I saw the same lack of aggression from the guys as the past two years and it was booooring. Better be pre-season rust.

[poopbox]

Has Derrick White every not started a game 1 for 5 or 2 for 7 :lol

On the one hand its the preseason on the other hand I cannot remotely tell what type of team we are even trying to be on the floor right now :lol

Another preseason of "pop is being a mad scientist and trying all this new stuff in the pre-season" only to trot out typical pop lineups in the regular season and then you say what was the point of a 4 guard lineup against the jazz and letting primo run the show cause we won't ever run that lineup in the regular season and primo is going to be on the first ting smoking to austin so why even get our hopes up :lol

[spurraider21]

Has Derrick White every not started a game 1 for 5 or 2 for 7 :lol

On the one hand its the preseason on the other hand I cannot remotely tell what type of team we are even trying to be on the floor right now :lol

Another preseason of "pop is being a mad scientist and trying all this new stuff in the pre-season" only to trot out typical pop lineups in the regular season and then you say what was the point of a 4 guard lineup against the jazz and letting primo run the show cause we won't ever run that lineup in the regular season and primo is going to be on the first ting smoking to austin so why even get our hopes up :lol
i think we need to realize that Derrick White played a hell of a game against Denver in game 3 of the playoffs that one time but we cant keep thinking he's about to turn the corner and be a superstar. frankly he hasnt been efficient or productive enough to justify being the centerpiece. bubble white was good because he was also launching threes

[Chinook]

i think we need to realize that Derrick White played a hell of a game against Denver in game 3 of the playoffs that one time but we cant keep thinking he's about to turn the corner and be a superstar. frankly he hasnt been efficient or productive enough to justify being the centerpiece. bubble white was good because he was also launching threes

The bubble as a whole was the worst thing to happen to the Spurs since Kawhi leaving. Had that not happened, the whole team would probably look different right now.

[The Truth #6]

The bubble as a whole was the worst thing to happen to the Spurs since Kawhi leaving. Had that not happened, the whole team would probably look different right now.

Probably so. But it may have been that they learned the wrong lessons from the Bubble.

[spurraider21]

The bubble as a whole was the worst thing to happen to the Spurs since Kawhi leaving. Had that not happened, the whole team would probably look different right now.
probably asking a lot, but can you elaborate on this point a bit? in what way do you think the team would look different?

[Chinook]

probably asking a lot, but can you elaborate on this point a bit? in what way do you think the team would look different?

I think without it, the Spurs don't go for the ultra-small, structure-light offense. That means they may not continue their focus on guards in the draft and don't continue to feature non-shooting perimeter players because they don't feel like it's okay to add shooting smalls to them. Johnson probably isn't a starter without the bubble, meaning he could be the good bench player he probably really is right now and the team would've prioritized more size in the front court during the off-season. White likely doesn't get his contract without the bubble, which means at least that the Spurs would've gone into this past summer with quite a bit more cap flexibility.

Heck, maybe without the bubble, Pop puts the Spurs into a full rebuild because he doesn't have the same hope that Murray, White and Johnson would develop enough to make up for Aldridge's decline. There are so many different things that would've been different had Pop not seen eight games that gave him the impression that he had basically a young playoff core under this rotting vets.

[spurraider21]

I think without it, the Spurs don't go for the ultra-small, structure-light offense. That means they may not continue their focus on guards in the draft and don't continue to feature non-shooting perimeter players because they don't feel like it's okay to add shooting smalls to them. Johnson probably isn't a starter without the bubble, meaning he could be the good bench player he probably really is right now and the team would've prioritized more size in the front court during the off-season. White likely doesn't get his contract without the bubble, which means at least that the Spurs would've gone into this past summer with quite a bit more cap flexibility.

Heck, maybe without the bubble, Pop puts the Spurs into a full rebuild because he doesn't have the same hope that Murray, White and Johnson would develop enough to make up for Aldridge's decline. There are so many different things that would've been different had Pop not seen eight games that gave him the impression that he had basically a young playoff core under this rotting vets.
i dont know. i was kind of hoping the bubble would have motivated pop to rebuild. move LMA/Derozan earlier. go with the youth movement even earlier, let them sink or swim and give us a better idea of who should be part of the team going forward and who shouldn't. but he instead kept trying to inch into the playoffs with derozan and wasted some time to evaluate and develop others

[BackHome]

In Pop I Trust Our Tanking

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Lonnie was a turnstile on defense. The Pistons attacked him on almost every possession in the second half. C+?? He was terrible.

Also, I only hope they’re playing Aminu to show the league that a trade involving him won’t be for a corpse.

Truth is that they have too many players that, although lower-tier, could be trade bait in a multi-player swap.

I’ll give Pop a bit of a pass since this is preseason, but yeah, sh!tty coaching last night.

[tmtcsc]

"His preternatural awareness on both ends is palpable."

C'mon man, no one has time for that.

[Rocalcio]

I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes but pop is pulling a larry brown/darko milocic with luka (of course, it turns out that darko was quite a headache off the court). Basically, I have no idea what Luka is like regarding his coachability and his work ethic but if this is just Pop being stubborn, I'm not happy with that. Every time I see Luka, I see samples of a nice skill set. So why he's being given garbage minutes in pre-season is beyond me. And I agree in regards to Primo. One can only hope these two are going to get some more significant minutes in some of the preseason games. I guess if I really want to look on the bright side, our G-League team would be pretty damn good if Primo and Luka headed it. :rolleyes

I don’t see Luka going to the G-League this season, it would be such a step backwards. It’s either he’s on the NBA team, either he’s gone.

[Chinook]

i dont know. i was kind of hoping the bubble would have motivated pop to rebuild. move LMA/Derozan earlier. go with the youth movement even earlier, let them sink or swim and give us a better idea of who should be part of the team going forward and who shouldn't. but he instead kept trying to inch into the playoffs with derozan and wasted some time to evaluate and develop others

No. LMA and DMDR weren't in the same camp. The Spurs had pretty clearly (in retrospect) moved on from Aldridge by the time of the bubble, but DeRozan was the best player for the Spurs during that stretch. Pop wasn't going to look at that and think they should trade him. He was going to look at it and think "DeRozan and these young guys can work if I play ultra-small and remove most of the structure of the offense", which is what he did. Remember, the Spurs played well during the bubble, so Pop was going to keep that going and would not have gotten the lesson to dramatically alter the bubble lineup.

Ultimately, the bubble made the Spurs believe too much in the youth that they already had versus the youth they'd need to get in order to make a rebuild work. That's why they held onto their vets, yes. But it's also why they did things like extend White, start Johnson and ultimately not be aggressive enough adding young talent during the 2020 draft. Letting guys "sink or swim" was never going to be the plan, just like it still isn't the plan now. That's why even though Pop has let the vets go he holds to a strict hierarchy system he's always done rather than having a more fluid rotation that a rebuilding team should have, dispersing his more-defined players to create spots for his newer guys to get good minutes. The reason why the Spurs are still trying to figure out who should be part of the team going forward is because Pop still operates like the team can't afford to let guys come in and learn on the job. His method of using minutes as a disciplinary tool in his coaching doesn't work as well when everyone is roughly at the same level. You can see it in how a guy like Vassell comes in pressing all the time.

[look_at_g_shred]

Now as to whether Primo is ready or not, that would take some insider Spurs info IMO.

'Tis true that switching from 30 games a year to 82 is huge.
I can see both sides of the coin. If he is not going to be playing, get reps at Austin.
OTOH since he will be a part of the Spurs future barring Grandpas continuing control freak / senility why not start off with the A team.
This is what will happen. he'll be sent to the G-League. After a couple or few 25/30 point games, he'll be called up to the big club.......only to be benched for the entirety of games.

[MultiTroll]

No. LMA and DMDR weren't in the same camp. The Spurs had pretty clearly (in retrospect) moved on from Aldridge by the time of the bubble,
Except that Pop didn't. In games LMA started to begin the season the Spurs were 8-3 and Popped bought into the b.s. that LMA was an integral part of that record. Thus as he came and went off the IR list, when coming back he would resume his 25 minutes per game and often take either the most, 2nd or at worst 3 most shot attempts. The slow motion black hole post up 1990s midrange offense continued.
LaMarcus Aldridge 2020-21 Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01/gamelog/2021)

So much for letting the bubble flow continue and young ones develop.

We know how it ended. Popped kept this shit up until giving him to Brooklyn for nothing.
Arrested Development.

[MultiTroll]

^ Now as to this year we can finally get our hopes up the Young Uns will be allowed to shine -or not, right?

Was looking that way 100% until Grandpa control freak brings back Pet Bryn. No doubt about it Bryn will help win about 8 games this year (no misprint, no crack smoked here) as he gets hot at a ratio of about 1 in 8 games. Granted the traffic cone defense continues and sure enough we saw that on full display vs the Pistons.
The 1 year contract? Good in the sense that he can be off the team if he sucks as expected. But then why the hell put that into the middle of a developing core?

So can we hope for fast pace and ball sharing as promised or, like LMA etc will Bryn Bryn be given all kinds of run by the Controller?

[james evans]

Popovich is the result you get when you have 70 year old men coaching and can't relate to 20 year old. He's from the era of players being submissive to coaches like robots. The sad thing is, they aren't gonna get rid of him. He's here until he decides to leave and that will probably be death..

[james evans]

This is what will happen. he'll be sent to the G-League. After a couple or few 25/30 point games, he'll be called up to the big club.......only to be benched for the entirety of games.
Popovich is gonna destroy that kid's confidence to the point he's gonna be looking to the bench for the Ok to shoot.

[Russ]

Popovich is gonna destroy that kid's confidence to the point he's gonna be looking to the bench for the Ok to shoot.

Pop can't destroy that kid's confidence because he's got IT.

(And, spoiler alert, that's what Pop's looking for.)

[Dex]

"His preternatural awareness on both ends is palpable."

C'mon man, no one has time for that.

LJ breaking out the thesaurus on this one :lol

[Atl Spur]

Popovich is gonna destroy that kid's confidence to the point he's gonna be looking to the bench for the Ok to shoot.

This kid is built different...

[Atl Spur]

Popovich is gonna destroy that kid's confidence to the point he's gonna be looking to the bench for the Ok to shoot.

This kid is built different...

[SAGirl]

I don’t see Luka going to the G-League this season, it would be such a step backwards. It’s either he’s on the NBA team, either he’s gone.
I agree with this.
Either he makes it now, as in the Spurs start to look for opportunities to integrate him into their team, or they move on from him.

In the past they have kept a young draft pick or undrafted young player as depth in the bench (out of the rotation but getting opportunities to play when there are injuries and rest games), but if Luka isn't going to be happy with that, well honestly that is the main reason I think they signed KBD.