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Hawk
05-09-2003, 11:00 AM
It would be interesting to see Kidd vs. Parker in the finals, the ultimate test to pass.

NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/09/sports/basketball/09araton.html)

Parker Should Make Spurs Forget Kidd
By HARVEY ARATON


an Antonio

ON the sore and speculative subject of Jason Kidd's hightailing it out of northern New Jersey next season for a charmed championship life here in steamy South Texas: not so fast. The Spurs already have an irresistible point guard who can flat-out fly.

For a truly informed evaluation of how quick Tony Parker is, we thought it best to consult a man named Speedy.

"Of all the guys in the league, I would probably say he's second, next to Iverson," said Speedy Claxton, formerly Allen Iverson's backup in Philadelphia and now Parker's here. "Iverson is a different kind of quick because of the way he can cross over and shoot."

Parker is the kind of player who changes direction on a dime and is behind you in a blink.

"Lightning," David Robinson said after the Spurs demolished the Lakers, 114-95, Wednesday night to take a 2-0 lead in their four-of-seven-game Western Conference semifinal series. "And the more you're around him, the more you like him."

Ignited by the Frenchman Parker and Argentina's Manu Ginobili, Monsieur Speed and Seņor Slash, the Spurs athletically embarrassed the three-time defending champion Lakers.

That doesn't mean their domination will continue as the series shifts tonight to Los Angeles. Nor does it mean they have abandoned plans to team Tim Duncan with Kidd when Kidd's contract with the Nets expires this summer.

They should scrap it right now, lest they end up jeopardizing the fine international blend that is brewing here at the SBC Center and wind up in the Lakers' deteriorated state, with two reigning stars and a supporting cast that on its own could not beat UConn (we're talking about Geno Auriemma's UConn, not Jim Calhoun's).

Wooing Kidd won't be worth it, given the likely cost-saving sacrifices the Spurs' owner, Peter Holt, would have to make to accommodate a mammoth contract for Kidd and an extended deal for Duncan. The recruitment of Kidd would eventually send Parker packing and most likely Ginobili, too. They are already a young backcourt to be reckoned with.

Robinson's impending retirement will create a void on a team whose one championship was founded on an imposing interior defense. In the conference of Shaq and Yao, why become weaker up front to improve at a position that is already strong and getting stronger by the season?

Which way to go, the model of the Lakers, with two marquee men, or the more egalitarian court of the Sacramento Kings?

As deserving of the Most Valuable Player award as Duncan is, as compelling a catch as Kidd would be, Duncan isn't the overwhelming presence Shaquille O'Neal is and Kidd isn't the Jordan heir that Kobe Bryant is.

Yet the temptation persists, a person with the Spurs said on the condition of anonymity, to play the star-mating game.

Kidd, the best point guard in basketball, would obviously be an upgrade on Parker. The question is how much better, given how good Parker already is and how much upside he has ("scary," said P. J. Carlesimo, the Spurs' assistant coach) and given that the 30-year-old Kidd begins to enter advanced basketball middle age.

Have we mentioned yet that next week Parker will turn the ripe old age of 21?

"It's ridiculous when you think about him coming in here last season, a kid from France who never played a second of college ball, and playing the way he has," Carlesimo said.

Carlesimo, a Spurs broadcaster last season, dropped into town for a preseason game in late October 2001 and heard from Gregg Popovich, the Spurs' coach, that the rookie, at 19, would be his starting point guard. "I thought Pop had lost his mind," Carlesimo said, "but then I watched Tony practice the next day and I couldn't believe how good he was."

He's better now, having averaged 15.5 points this season and 5.3 assists in an offense that flows mainly through Duncan.

Nonetheless, Parker makes his share of jaw-dropping plays, like the one Wednesday night, late in the first half, as he angled in for a layup and a large roadblock appeared.

Parker, almost a foot smaller than O'Neal, maybe 175 pounds lighter, did not confront or recoil. He calmly floated the ball toward the rim, as if setting off a balloon. O'Neal took the bait, and a vicious swipe, and was whistled for goaltending. It was a true rope-a-dope moment.

As cool and confident as he is canny, Parker said after Game 2: "The Lakers don't respect us. I think they still think they're going to win," - the implication being that they are sadly deluded.

As to whether the Spurs now respect him enough to abort the dream of Kidd at the point, he shrugged and said, "Ask Pop," the implication being that we should know darn well what he thinks.

He wore a collarless shirt, a baggy denim jacket and jeans, his hands stuffed into the pockets as he shifted impatiently on his dancer's feet. One pause between questions and he was gone.

"In a nice way, he's got no clue that he's not supposed to be doing what he's doing," Carlesimo said. Nor did the Lakers have any idea how to slow him down, guarding him with slow-footed journeymen as the Spurs ran away in Game 2.

Meanwhile, back East, the loudest late-night cheers are no doubt coming from Nets officials. The more Parker accelerates, the more the Spurs win, the less likely it is that Jason Kidd will bolt.

scott
05-09-2003, 01:50 PM
Yes.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 01:59 PM
I don't see it - Bruce's money comes off in 2005. Assuming a salary cap of say $44 million for 2005-06 and a luxury tax of about $56 million the Spurs will likely be paying about $3 million in luxury tax assuming Parker gets a 25% max deal and Manu gets about $6 million. I.e., the payroll should be near $59 million or so. I've done the numbers and factored in the raises and it looks possible to keep the team together. However, they'll be significantly over the tax threshold if they decide to use the MCX to replace Bowen, and after signing Parker and Manu the Spurs will be hard-pressed to add anything else.

CosmicCowboyXXX
05-09-2003, 02:13 PM
who's to say the current ownership group will continue to own the Spurs?...after all...they are all business people and are not just doing this for charity...

What better time to sell a team than after you have won and or seriously competed for the championship, added another MAX player AND have bird rights on several up-and-coming potential all-star caliber players?...we are talking about a potential dynasty here...this franchise may never be worth more...

When you currently have owners paying/losing $100,000,000.+ per year to field "first round and out" teams how much is this franchise really worth???...

if the Luxury tax even EXISTS when we have to worry about resigning Parker etc. then it is quite possible that we might have a new owner that doesn't mind paying whatever is necessary to keep the team together...

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 02:15 PM
Holt doesn't mind going over - if he did Ferry would have never gotten the $4.5 million.

CosmicCowboyXXX
05-09-2003, 02:17 PM
Holt owns 33%. They will go over the luxtax a little if they have the revenue to pay for it but they are not going to lose big money...the big investor money is obviously in the capitol gains...this group doesn't mind "breaking even" on an annual operating basis but is not going to lose money to keep the team together...

timvp
05-09-2003, 02:23 PM
Holt doesn't mind going over - if he did Ferry would have never gotten the $4.5 million.

Ferry never got $4.5M.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 02:36 PM
That's what the Express News reports his salary as.

timvp
05-09-2003, 02:39 PM
It was a mistake. No way in hell the Spurs give him $4.5M.

He opted out and re-signed to get an option for next year.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 02:43 PM
Are you saying Ferry has an option next year? :vomit

It's consistent with the team's track record of giving big money thank yous, like the one they gave AJ in 2000.

timvp
05-09-2003, 02:46 PM
Team option:)

Giving Ferry $4.5M was a typo that has made the rounds on the internet.

genghisrex
05-09-2003, 02:50 PM
So what did the Spurs give Ferry?

timvp
05-09-2003, 02:52 PM
IIRC, they used like $1.5M of the MLE or something to that effect. He was being courted by numerous teams, including the Lakers.

Why:wtf

genghisrex
05-09-2003, 03:09 PM
Thanks, timvp.

I remember last summer when people were wondering why Ferry bothered to opt out of his deal I dug through the CBA and found some clause that would allow him to get something like a 20% raise by signing a new deal -- so he could get something like $1.2-1.3 million.

Then the $4.5 million figure came out and the only way it made any sense was if the Spurs used Early Bird Rights, which didn't really make any sense because Early Bird contracts have to last at least 2 years (not including option years). That would have killed our cap space this summer.

I was told that the Spurs were somehow able to circumvent the CBA and give Ferry a 1-year $4.5 million contract. Frankly, that always sounded like a load of BS to me (why don't other teams, then, circumvent the CBA all the time?), but it's hard to argue when you don't have the actual contract and salary info in front of you.

Using that CBA clause I mentioned above or the remainder of the MLE makes a lot more sense. I'm curious, though, where you got you information about Ferry's deal.

timvp
05-09-2003, 03:34 PM
I'm curious, though, where you got you information about Ferry's deal.

The 'plan' was talked about in the media when Ferry opted out. But then for some reason there was that mistake when he finally did re-sign.

Also, I go to the same gym as Ferry and his business partner.

Hawk
05-09-2003, 03:42 PM
If and only if the Spurs win it all I am sure they will have to re-think their plans. Parker taking on Kidd in the finals would be sweet. With Claxton spelling TP and both of them mopping Kidd all over the floor. And if Kidd by some astronomical chance won the battle why would he even leave NJ if his team won. J. O'neal would definitely have to be looked at or any other combination of capable free agents.

Malone and Payton for a few years.

It seems like the Holting pattern could become the new model for winning championships and creating an economically beneficial dynasty.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 04:09 PM
you know they mentioned the 4.5 million on the tnt broadcast. It's amazing how rumors get legs. I was thinking that it was one of the make up contracts... I'd have hated for the spurs to lose out on 8 million + for that...

good news.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 04:12 PM
I read this article this morning. Reads like a Nets fan hoping that Kidd doesn't bolt. The underlying assumption of the article is that the small market Spurs couldn't possibly afford two superstars. Well, that was basically true...prior to the new labor agreement of 1999. The columnist needs to do his homework.

scott
05-09-2003, 05:11 PM
You're assumptions are faulty MB... there are no Nets fans in NYC. :)

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 05:18 PM
Then he emailed it to the Times from his crib in Northern NJ. :hat2

scott
05-09-2003, 05:21 PM
There are no Nets fans ANYWHERE- that's the problem! The Nets rely on the visiting teams "Road Warriors" for their attendence.

Nah, I agree, there was a tinge of "please stay Jason" in his article.

He does make a good arguement about "in a confrence of Shaq and Yao, how do you justify a move which makes your frontcourt weaker?"

July should be an interesting month.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 05:48 PM
In a conference with Shaq and Yao? Why is Yao on Shaq's level now? Doesn't it sound ridiculous if I say "in a conference with Shaq and Rik Smits?"

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 05:50 PM
All hype. He's Shaq's equal simply because he has a billion fans (sorry Mengke).

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 05:58 PM
Yeah right. Double teams Rik Smits received in his life.... drum roll... 0

Yao double teams every time he steps on the floor, IN FACT after they beat us TIM and DAVE doulbled Yao.

You suck up to Lebron and call out the haters and then this constant bashing of Yao... :o

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 06:01 PM
Lay off the pipe. Yao is nowhere near O'Neal's level.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 06:02 PM
that's right he's not. he's also 22. he's also no where near Smits' level ...

ZStomp
05-09-2003, 06:13 PM
I think Parker has done much to make us forget Kidd. I have forgotten him ...but then again. I never had him tops on my list.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 06:18 PM
Yeah who needs Kidd I hope the Spurs can land Jon Barry. </sarcasm>

DrEmilioLizardo
05-09-2003, 06:19 PM
There are no Nets fans ANYWHERE- that's the problem!

TRUE. Even on game 2 of that series, Ainge was ripping them for not filling the arena in the second round. He was like "when are we going to see a sellout?". His partner said that they were only 100 short. Ainge was like "WHAT?!?". the guy repeated it very deadpan, and there was silence for a while, followed by some weird nervous kind of chuckling. It was obvious that there may have been a memo from the league not to mention arenas that are not full.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 06:21 PM
Nah MB - it's Rasho. Look how he stepped up against Shaq in the first round and tell me you don't want that.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 06:25 PM
Yeah **** Kidd the Spurs need to get a REAL player like Nesterovic.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 06:31 PM
You basketball jokers. baseline your the clown who wants to get rid of sjax for malone if we could get a guarantee from Brand AND thought scola was going to get 2 million. Anyway I hope we get Rasho provided it's starts under 6 million. Save the rest for Manu. You know the guy everyone's talking about...

NEWSFLASH Rasho's salary isn't going to equal Kidds... read the article it explains why we can't do everything AND your contention that we are paying the luxury tax has been debunked...

Yeah I know how unlikely and stupid it is :rolleyes ... the spurs brass are dying to spend as much as possible.

ps I know I'm crazy for thinking we are going to be better next year with TP, Manu and SJAX going to be much better and 2 time MVP probably better too... who were your picks to win it all I forgot?

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 06:37 PM
What's the point of spending big money on a center who cowers like a white boy on Crenshaw every time he faces Shaq? Shaq's the only real center to match up against.I'd take KandiAss before that soft bitch. Convenient how you forget that I'd lose Jax for Brand next year. Great games from Rasho in the first round against the one person we'd get him for - I'm truly impressed.

You are crazy if you think this team is better after losing DRob and signing only scrub-ass Charmin-soft no rebounding bitch Rasho Nesterovich for $6 M.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 06:39 PM
How much will Scola get, pfc? You do know he has a freaking huge buyout, so he ain't oming for minimum money or what they're paying Parker right now, mensa.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 06:42 PM
comical that you think Rasho would be brought in for Shaq. If your still building a team to take on the Lakers your crazy.

ps I added that part about brand before I read your reply. it just changes it from criminally retarded to outstandingly retarded. That would ridulous after we won a championship... it would be like "why win. were goign to have 2 max FAs"

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 06:43 PM
your contention that we are paying the luxury tax has been debunked...

It has? Once again, the E-N reports it a $4.5 M, putting the Spurs payroll over $53 M.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 06:44 PM
Did you put 2 million or 2.5 I forgot?? Do you want to bet that he get's closer to the minimum than 2 million?

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 06:46 PM
It has? Once again, the E-N reports it a $4.5 M, putting the Spurs payroll over $53 M.

Read to achieve. Read the thread.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 06:47 PM
Explain to me how this team is improved? Rasho's gonna defend bigs like Dave does?

Even if we beat LA this year they'll be back next year, and we're fucked if Rasho is our answer to Shaq. He's 31, Kobe's 24. They're not done if they lose this season.

Where does the rebounding come from? Parker sucks on the boards. Jax is horrible on the boards. Bowen can't rebound when he's guarding the perimeter. Rasho is as soft as they come on the glass. Basically, the Spurs would be like the Detroit Pistons, getting killed on the glass because they have one person who can grab a freaking board.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 06:52 PM
dude you know we played abuot 1/5 the season without Dave right? You know we went 14-2 without him playing the big boys also -- we did just fine on the boards. So your saying that with TP, who improved tremendously, Sjax who improved tremendously and Manu who is just learning the nba game and has Kobe's work ethic next year we won't be better... Then add a center with good hands that improves every year.

You explain :wtf

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 06:54 PM
This franchise is fucked if they pass on Kidd for Nesterovic, no matter what the Slovene's salary may be.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 06:54 PM
Here's my explanation - Malik Rose isn't a soft-ass bitch on the boards like Rasho is.

Rasho's good hands really helped him to remove Shaq's meat from his ass in the first round.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 06:59 PM
This franchise is fucked if they pass on Kidd for Nesterovic, no matter what the Slovene's salary may be.
yeah go tell that to the guys at the victory parade. you and well, you will be thinking that way. Even David Aldridge is hedging..



Here's my explanation - Malik Rose isn't a soft-ass bitch on the boards like Rasho is.

is he leaving the team? He'll still be there so keep trying...

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:01 PM
Who rebounds outside of Duncan in your lineup?

Duncan 40 minutes
Rasho 30 minutes
Rose 26 minutes

So we have rebounding half the game instead of all game like we do right now with David.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 07:06 PM
yeah go tell that to the guys at the victory parade. you and well, you will be thinking that way. Even David Aldridge is hedging..

So the Spurs stay complacent and pass on a player of Kidd's caliber in the lone summer in which they can add an impact player via free agency over the next 6 to 7 years? What a stupid fucking take. The Spurs haven't followed their strategy over the last 5 seasons in order to sign Rasho Fucking Nesterovic this summer.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 07:09 PM
Dude you need to be explaining. How is a team that without Dave went crazy in the win's columns with young guys going to be WORSE with more experience and a added player?

I think Rasho is a good player. He underraded as a rebounder because he doesn't go pad his stats ala Kandi ass (who basically fights his teamates for boards). Rasho blocks out and let's the ball drop to KG. I've seen it happen. I watch games so don't pull that tired crap. I

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 07:11 PM
Championship changes everything OBVIOULSY (to everyone but a few). Manu, TP and SJax change everything again (NOTE those guys are UNDERPAID). So all this salary space is spent

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 07:11 PM
Yeah, I suppose someone has to explain to you why acquiring Jason Kidd or Jermaine O'Neal is preferable to Nesterovic this summer. Turn a letter Vanna.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:12 PM
So you're depending on facing the Shaq we faced in game 3 of the regular season in LA? Are you trying to tell me you don't think rebounding is important to playing D?

Rasho is soft. Rasho looked like a lost little boy against Shaq. If we're not getting him for Shaq, who are we getting him for? You think he'll all of a sudden grab boards over 7'6" Yao too when he doesn't play physically like a Rose or Rodman does to get theirs?

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 07:14 PM
They can afford to pay a good player not a piece of shit.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:16 PM
Why get a "big" who can't bang, play D, or board when the team has plenty of decent offensive options already?

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:17 PM
**** Kidd
**** O'Neal
**** Payton
**** Odom

Let's sign LaFrentz Jr.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 07:19 PM
Shaq is a beast. Who plays him well? You think JO'Neal is going to go against him? I'm saying Rasho will push up the team rebounds because he blocks out.

I'm saying Rasho will be fine against most centers.

MB your rap is a 0 out of 10. your screaming like everyone else is an idiot and you don't know shit. Plenty are think O'Neal but it's basically you and baseline for Kidd. Name one sportswriter that says get kidd (besides what Aldridge said 3 months ago) -- the case is becoming more ridiculous with every round. I know... sportswriters don't know shit. their all idiots you guys are the smart ones :blah

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 07:20 PM
...and **** Yao that damn commie.

http://www.nba.com/media/yao_handshake_030509.jpg

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 07:22 PM
Name one sportswriter who thinks the Spurs should pass up Kidd for Nesterovic. Thought so. The Spurs are not planning on adding anything less than an all-star caliber player this summer. Apparently you haven't been paying attention over the last 5 years.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:23 PM
No one is saying sign Rasho. Everyone laughed at your stupid proposal for how to spend the cap in chat.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 07:24 PM
Well I guess we could see what happens... we'll see whose closer to what goes down... :baby

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:27 PM
I bet Cuban's happy the Mavs blew their shot at Duncan for a soft, no-rebounding and no defense-playing foul magnet signed to a huge deal. Now we can get one of our own, only he's not even as good as the one Dallas has.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 07:30 PM
yeah I can see you MB and Ghost laughing... :rolleyes

you guys have been right about... hmmm let's see. 1 out of about 50.

Yeah I know you smart guys just know management is going to run out and figure out ways to spend as much money as possible for 47 largest US TV market SA. I'm still laughing my ass off about Ghost crowing over here about how good that trade of NY's pick was -- yeah 20 year old Nene Hilario wouldn't be a good knick. Or dropping Yao off his fantasy roster after 2 bad games. Or on his analysis of TP... but at least he does trademarks right?

And BB your about 5.3% better than ghost congrats.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:33 PM
The Spurs have been paying 3 max-level contracts for the previous two seasons, mensa.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 07:37 PM
9.9 doesn't equal 12 right? it get's worse after the first year right?

TD's salary is going way up. keep working on your figures and assumptions (SA is NOT paying lux tax, so if you squeeze under and the biggest contracts get 10%+ raise guess what happens the next year...)

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:46 PM
This is what happens - also note I use Bird raises (12.5%) for my worst case estimates

Let's assume the following:

2003-04 salary cap = $40 M
2005-06 salary cap = $44 M
Duncan signs for the max he can get after not opting out this season (if he does he'll make less)
Spurs sign a 30% max player with Bird max raises (2003)
Spurs sign Tony Parker to a max deal (2005)
Spurs sign Jax to a Bowen deal (2003)
Spurs sign someone like Speedy to the other $2M (2003)
Spurs sign Manu for $6 M starting (2005)

2003 max FA - $15 M
Duncan - $15.0182 M
Parker - $11 M
Manu - $6 M
Rose - $5.775 M
Jax - $3.75 M
(Speedy) - $2.5 M
draft pick - $800K
$2M to fill out a bench

TOTAL $61.8 M

lux tax = $56 M

Therefore, the Spurs spend $5.8 M in luxury tax, which isn't much to field a contender.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:49 PM
cut the draft pick off if you want to save money

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:50 PM
Also, Parker at $11 M (max for him on a $44M cap) is a hell of a reach.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 07:52 PM
Yeah I know you smart guys just know management is going to run out and figure out ways to spend as much money as possible for 47 largest US TV market

Learn something about the cap before you waste our time.

As for Dunc's salary it will increase by $3 to 4 mil total over the next 3 seasons. Oh no.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 07:55 PM
not going to happen. that's a difference of let's say 10 million (after the payout) that year and it get's worse after that. You know phoenix lost 3 million (including the playoff money) and there salary is 53 million. Phoenix is a substantially larger and richer market than SA.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 07:55 PM
Let's be more frugal...

If we sign Speedy that's 10% raises, not 12.5% because we don't have his Bird rights

Assume they say fuk the pick

Assume they fill out the roster with younger minimum guys, so cut another million off

Now Speedy makes $2.2 M

total = $59.7 M

Spurs pay a grand total of $59.7 M, and pay a tax of $3.7 M for a title contender that will sell every season ticket and every luxury box for the next 5 years

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 07:59 PM
let's assume we pay Manu $5 an hour and that TD loves the SA so much he takes a pay cut. Get over yourselves you can't have everything...

You can't assume we are going to pay lux tax. It's not going to happen. That's a pretty brave assumption at 6 million for manu also.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:01 PM
The Spurs can afford to carry that payroll. Here's a newsflash...BRI will be increasing during this period. For those of you scoring at home that includes the ABC/ESPN deal.

SA's market size doesn't mean as much anymore thanks to the CBA that was signed back in 1999.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:02 PM
Get over yourself. You know very little about the cap.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:03 PM
bbum...don't forget that teams that are slightly over the lux tax threshold don't pay the full tax. In addition the basic assumption that there will be a luxury tax for 2005-06 is in doubt.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:04 PM
Yeah fans from LA are going to come and pay for the tickets at the SBC and buy lux boxes. Local markets make up a large part of a teams revenue... Why do you think the Knicks can pay that salary or Lakers? Why do you think the Knicks are worth so much more than SA?

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 08:04 PM
$6 million starting is about what Manu will probably be worth by then. Right now he's worth MCX at best, but I doubt it when Karl Malone, Juwan Howard, and Gary Payton will might be had for that.

Also note I'm giving you Tony being a max player for your argument, though I strongly disagree with him being worth max money.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:08 PM
Manu would get 6M this year. there is no way people are paying over the MLE for fossils like GP and Malone that's for sure.

well you low balled SJax also. lux tax isn't happening, count on that.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:13 PM
Then why is there even a team in San Antonio? Why have the Spurs made it clear that they will be pursuing a max free agent this summer?

The national TV contract accounts for the largest part of NBA revenues the last time I checked.

The facts belie your argument.

Ginobili wouldn't get more than the MCE this summer.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:16 PM
How much exactly is SJackson supposed to make this summer? $7 mil? Spare us with your pedestrian takes.

Learn something:

NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement (http://www.nbpa.com/cba/)

NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm)

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:17 PM
Why are the Knicks so much more valuable than the Spurs? How about he Lakers?

A big chuck of money is split between the teams. That's why the nba isn't mlb. HOWEVER local market is very important. we lucked into the nba. Thank god for sbc also. They aren't investing in the spurs (when they actually owned a piece), it's important for the city to have that team so they are helping out the city.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:19 PM
What SBC has done is a drop in the bucket. The major portion is coming from the hospitality tax. And that's the county not the city.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:20 PM
LA and NYC have metro areas exceeding 10 million in population. What's the Lakers' payroll at?

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:21 PM
He won't make over MLE but 1 million isn't chump change right? I'm telling you we won't pay lux tax. Peter Holt has said it, anyone who knows anything about business knows it too. You sure as hell haven't proved we wouldn't go over the lux tax even with all you finangling. let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say 8 million lost via tax -- that isn't chump change. That's one year and it get's worse after that. If god forbid anyone get's hurt we'll lose a fortune -- we win the championship everyear and we break even...

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:24 PM
Peter Holt has said it? That's a new one.

As for our "finangling" at least we have bothered to run the fvcking numbers instead of just blindly speculate as you have done. For someone who knows so much about doing bidness you haven't brought much to this discussion.

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 08:25 PM
pfc's economic plan

Duncan - $15 M
Parker - $11 M
Manu - $11 M
Rasho - $7.5 M
Jax - $7 M
Rose - $5.775 M
Speedy - $2.2 M
draft pick - $800K
fill out the roster with - $2M

TOTAL - $60.275 M, over the luxury tax

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:25 PM
I'm not talking about the stadium I'm talking about when they helped buy the team from Red so he wouldn't move it.

Los Angeles Lakers NBA Jerry Buss $426 million
New York Knicks NBA C. Dolan/J. Dolan $398 million
San Antonio Spurs NBA Peter Holt $242 million

why do you think that is?
FYI,
Milwaukee Bucks NBA Herb Kohl $168 million

we'd be even lower than that without this incredible team and flexibility

baseline bum
05-09-2003, 08:27 PM
pfc doesn't want to improve a roster that is exactly one win better than Sacramento and is losing its best interior defender. :rollin

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:32 PM
NYC and LA have media markets that dwarf SA by a larger factor than those team valuations do.

Morphgizmo
05-09-2003, 08:32 PM
There's no doubt that I'd rather have JO or Brand, but you could bet your ass I'd take Kidd over a few scrubs. We would have more than enough trade value on board to make a change if necessary.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:34 PM
dude please get a grip. All I'm saying is we won't pay lux tax. just settle down and admit you could keep this team together under the lux tax. You as you've illustrated can't if we get a max FA... ok.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:36 PM
Yeah, SA won't be paying the luxury tax as either the league wide salaries and benefits won't exceed 63.33% of BRI in 2005 or the luxury tax will be done away with by the owners before then.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:37 PM
NYC and LA have media markets that dwarf SA by a larger factor than those team valuations do.
did I ever say that it was a exact ratio? Youre right that CBA helps small market teams -- that's why I mentioned the nba not being mlb. It doesn't make a level playing field. We are the SMALLEST market.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:39 PM
The point is that the magnitudes are not even close. You are looking at two metro areas that are 10X as large as SA with respect to population. And let's not forget that the SA MSA has one of the lower per capita income averages in the US.

All that and the value of the Knicks and Lakers is only 1.5 to not even 2 times as much as the Spurs.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:39 PM
pfc doesn't want to improve a roster that is exactly one win better than Sacramento and is losing its best interior defender
baseline thinks that the spurs will pay lux tax :lol

baseline thinks a YOUNG team that kicked ass without David will be worse next year :lol

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:41 PM
You nitwit this is not just about next season. It is about the next decade. This summer will be the Spurs' last real opportunity to acquire an impact player via free agency for a long time. The Spurs have specifically planned for this day since at least 1996.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:43 PM
NY Knicks have the worse run team in the league and they are still worth more than the spurs. Spurs are worth money precisely because they aren't paying the tax and have TD. They're worth money because someone could move the team and make a killing...

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:47 PM
DUDE the team is young. We have the horses to be a dynasty. We can't keep the team together and sign a max FA.
Options:
- Keep the team together and don't pay Lux tax
- Sign a max FA and lose other players and don't pay Lux tax (after 2004)
- Sell team to Cuban and pay Lux tax

I'll take option 1 -- the one that will win the most championships

Morphgizmo
05-09-2003, 08:48 PM
One of the reasons we are kicking the crap out of the Lakers (and it's not over btw), is because their supporting cast has taken a huge nosedive. What happens if they sign Payton, make a few trades to get younger and make another run next season? Kobe and Shaq aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

We need to try to match their big two and then let our depth beat them off the bench. Kidd/Jo/Brand and Duncan would give us an even larger edge to begin with.

What if Cuban buys himself a decent interior?

Sacto isn't getting any worse on us either.

There's no question that we need to grab an all-star player if one's available. We can't stand pat. As much as I liked the two decent player strategy earlier in the season, I've come to realize that it's tough to beat two superstars plus good depth.

I think this organization will do what it takes to stay on top. They're frugal, but they play the game pretty well. With any luck, they'll revamp the CBA and do away with the lux tax like MB said.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:49 PM
Then WTF aren't the Lakers worth at least double what the Spurs are? Or are they a poorly run team as well? Give it up already.

****, if the Spurs had to pay a luxury tax of $5 mil a year for the next 10 years (assuming a discount rate of 10%) that would reduce the value of the team by only $30 mil. At least run the fvcking numbers before you type.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:55 PM
DUDE the team is young. We have the horses to be a dynasty. We can't keep the team together and sign a max FA

Put away the pipe. This team does not have the talent as it stands to be a "dynasty". Your basic assumption that no other team is going to improve is ridiculous.

Another idiotic assumption of yours is that the Spurs will always have an opportunity to add a superstar level talent via free agency. Sorry, that's simply not the case.

And finally it has been proven that the Spurs can afford to keep the team intact and add a max free agent. You have offered nothing but ancedotal arguments without any reference to the actual terms of the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement nor bothered to do the most basic of projections of the Spurs' future payroll. In short, you don't know a damn thing so do us all the favor of shutting the **** up.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 08:56 PM
you're an mba stundent? scary... get a fucking clue.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 08:57 PM
you're an mba stundent? scary... get a fucking clue.


Yes I am bitch. Unfortunately you decided to **** with the wrong one.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 09:00 PM
do you read? I never said that we could add an allstar anytime. I said we have the team NOW. we don't need an allstar. You've proved that we can keep the team together by going over the Lux tax -- I'm saying that's not an option.

We've kicked ass without DRob, we'd be adding another player how the **** is it that I haven't proven we will be better?

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 09:01 PM
Yes I am bitch. Unfortunately you decided to **** with the wrong one.


seriously dude stay home and study. you need it.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 09:04 PM
It doesn't matter what you have now. How often have the Spurs had this amount of cap flexibility? Why do you think the Spurs have specifically worked to have so many contracts end after the same season? If the Spurs rest on their laurels then they are toast. This is not about next season it is about the next decade.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 09:06 PM
Study what, specifically? Name the subject. I need a good laugh.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 09:12 PM
reality 101

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 09:13 PM
Ha. Quick, name one way to value a business. Any method.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 09:15 PM
free cash flow..

I'm sicking of talking to you. basically there are different assumptions that are being made -- that's it.

I'll let Pop and RC decide. maybe Milton and Peter and god will agree with you right?

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 09:17 PM
Well at least you know how to use a search engine. Come back when you actually decide to delve into the numbers and not blindly speculate.

pfc2002
05-09-2003, 09:18 PM
please youre a tool.

Marcus Bryant
05-09-2003, 09:20 PM
Run along now like you said you were going to.

spurster
05-09-2003, 11:23 PM
Getting Kidd is questionable because the Spurs have Parker, Claxton, Manu, and SJax, all of which are arguably coming into their prime in the next "decade". Kidd's prime is now. From this point, he declines.

Anyway, I agree with the strategy of picking up a second star, though Kidd is not my first choice. If the Spurs enter into major luxtax territory, they can always trade.

ducks
05-09-2003, 11:47 PM
I wil add kidd is going to start declining next yea. whether he is a spur or a net. here he would not have to get more then 30 minutes a night so he would not decline as fast.

longest thread?

baseline bum
05-10-2003, 01:41 PM
Parker did a great job last night, huh? Reasons why Parker won't make me forget Kidd...

1) Why do the Spurs lose games when Tim scores a lot of points? Answer, the rest of the team gets lost because Tim is our point in every half-court set. The rest of the team depends on his ability to get them shots. Tim has so much responsibility on this team - make sure everyone else can get in the flow and still be the #1 scorer.

2) Tony Parker is more Iverson Jr. (and I stress the word Jr.) than point guard. As I've said for months, Parker is a scorer. He's not the one setting people up in the half-court.

3) When Parker doesn't score he gives the team nothing, unlike Kidd who dominates in games he scores 10 in with his passing, his ability to push tempo, his defense, and his rebounding.

4) The team needs a balls to the wall leader like Kidd. Sometimes this team starts hanging its head instead of fighting with everything they have. Kidd's as tough a point as there is in the league, and he's the leader the Spurs have lacked since AJ left.

MadeFromDust
05-10-2003, 02:52 PM
TP 2 points, 4 assists against the incredible D of 1st-team All-Defense Derelik FishHead. Spurs get blown out in the playoffs.

Jason Kidd in '03, PLEASE!!!

ducks
05-10-2003, 04:56 PM
and if he goes and gets 50 next game then what

baseline bum
05-10-2003, 05:02 PM
Then it reinforces my point that he's Iverson Jr., a scorer, who wouldn't clash with Kidd nearly as much as most of you all think.

ducks
05-10-2003, 05:05 PM
and if he goes for 20 assist?

baseline bum
05-10-2003, 05:10 PM
fluke - Tony is a score first PG and the most assists he's ever gotten in a game is 13.

Hawk
05-10-2003, 05:31 PM
The first game of the playoffs Kidd showed why he is a superstar he came out blasting. TP as much as I like the guy came out like it was some kind of regular season game. Kidd is a superstar leader and will only magnify the value of our young guns.

I wish we had Kidd right now. But would Kidd leave NJ if his team makes it to the finals again?

scott
05-10-2003, 05:36 PM
If we are talking from about what the Spurs will do from a business standpoint- I don't think anyone here can know.

MB and BB can fill in the details for me and tell me if I'm wrong, because I don't claim to know a thing about the CBA.

For the most part, the Spurs operate with a finite income stream (assuming most of their $$$ is made from Ticket Sales and concessions).

Their core revenue is limited to 45a + Xb + C + M

with 45 being the number of Pre and Reg season games, "a" being the mean price for those tickets, "X" being the number of playoff games, "b" being the mean price for those playoff tickets, "C" being revenues from concessions, and "M" being money from Merchendise.

M is really the only area in which revenues are not restrained.

Again, I don't know anything about the CBA or the TV deals- but I am assuming that the TV money is divided equally amongst teams, regardless of how many times you have a national TV appearance?

From an expense side, the Spurs core expenditures are players and staff salaries along with both fixed and variable expenses for the SBC center (I assume the Spurs "pay" something, be it an actual cost or a % of their revenues)

Since none of us know how much money the Spurs make/lose now- it hinders our ability to analyze what they will do from a business standpoint.

If they sign a Max FA and use Bird Rights to keep our team competitive, rather than staying at the Salary Cap level- we are looking at what- a $16 million annual difference in salaries maybe?

Let's assume that without the Max FA, the Spurs stay at the Cap and make the semifinals each year- but with the Max FA we go to $16 million over the cap (lux tax includeD) we go to the NBA finals each year.

Will the 2 additional rounds of playoff basketball make up for the $16million difference? If not, will additional Merch sales from having a second superstar make up that difference?

The question becomes- is Spurs ownership willing to take a lesser rate of return on their capital to field a championship team, if necessary?

I dunno.

ducks
05-10-2003, 05:43 PM
from a business standpoint if they were thinking about selling the team after they sign a star fa would make sense

baseline bum
05-10-2003, 05:45 PM
Kidd ensures a winner, which ensures a lot of season tickets and luxury boxes sold. Guaranteed money for every game - no need to spend a lot on advertising each game, no need to have HEB family nights where they have to sell the tickets at a huge discount, etc. People love a winner and with Kidd and Duncan plus our young core the Spurs would put one out every night. If they go out in the second you can bet that season ticket base is going down next year.

ducks
05-10-2003, 05:50 PM
Kidd ensures a winner

when has he won a ring?

I bet if they sign tj ford next year peopel would come see him pla to.

Man in Black1
05-10-2003, 05:58 PM
did I ever say that it was a exact ratio? Youre right that CBA helps small market teams -- that's why I mentioned the nba not being mlb. It doesn't make a level playing field. We are the SMALLEST market.

PFC2002-You need to look at the BIG PICTURE. You are too fixated to see the value of whate other PLAYERS can offer.

I get that from you.

SA is not the smallest market. Markets for Tv & Media re defines as DESIGNATED MEDIA AREAS or DMA's.

Here is your ranking.

RANK&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp NBA City&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2002 Population&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2002 Households
1&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp New York, NY&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 20368615&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 7413674
2&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Los Angeles, CA&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 16600260&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5389735
3&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Chicago, IL&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 9373560&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3383129
4&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Philadelphia, PA&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 7573179&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2853624
5&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp San Francisco et al, CA&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6876638&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2506205
6&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Boston et al, MA-NH&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 6154633&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2373017
7&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Washington et al,DC-MD&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5769771&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2179351
8&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Dallas-Ft. Worth, TX&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5960809&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2178128
9&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Atlanta, GA&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5385393&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1975741
10&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Detroit, MI&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 4990251&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1912579
11&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Houston, TX&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 5201439&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1823683
12&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Seattle-Tacoma, WA&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 4337694&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1701707
13&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Minneapolis-St. Paul,MN&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 4194106&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1609726
14&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Cleveland, OH&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3915851&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1545898
15&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Phoenix, AZ&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 4146665&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1527503
16&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Miami-Ft. Lauderdale,FL&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 4057710&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1497349
17&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Denver, CO&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3566371&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1383360
18&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Sacramento et al, CA&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3528233&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1243398
19&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Orlando et al, FL&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 3076187&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1218320
20&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Portland, OR&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2822812&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1084526
21&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Indianapolis, IN&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2615230&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1027445
22&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Charlotte, NC&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2490167&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 962342
23&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Milwaukee, WI&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2221571&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 863686
24&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Salt Lake City, UT&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2457393&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 779747
25&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp San Antonio, TX&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 2070078&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 725088
26&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Memphis, TN&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1778762&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 666549
27&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp New Orleans, LA&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 1769514&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp 665972

Not the smallest in terms of either Total Households or Total Population.

You BETTER ASK SOMEBODY...MENSA

:white

Oh Yeah...Why is it that we have a Point Power Forward? Maybe its because our Shoot First Point Guard is STILL NOT YET A SUPERSTAR? The Kid is amazing but like Luke Skywalker, he has much to learn.

baseline bum
05-10-2003, 05:59 PM
Don't come with one-line simpleminded arguments. I've laid out at length why Kidd makes so much sense for this team. Kidd is a proven winner despite having no one anywhere near the capabilities of Duncan to play with.

ducks
05-10-2003, 06:06 PM
gp is a proven winner

sign him for 2 years instead of kidd

kidd is going to be a steve smith in year 5-7 of his contract here in sa. he sure better GET the SPURS RINGS before then.

That is why I think getting kidd is not as smart as Oneal. yeah kidd would not have to play as much here but would pop play him 40 plus minutes during the season?

Oneal is younger and fits the teams need. Oneal did make the pacers that much better. he did not get them out of th efirst round this year but you can not blame it on him.

Man in Black1
05-10-2003, 08:38 PM
:brotha

You're hurtin' AFLAC.

You can't project that in 5-7 years that Kidd wil be Steve Smith. what kind of BS is that?

Lets say that he conitinues this downward spiral. At his current rate in 7 years he will be better that TONY IS RIGHT FREAKIN' NOW....AMAZING ISN'T IT?

baseline bum
05-10-2003, 08:46 PM
gp is a proven winner

sign him for 2 years instead of kidd

I don't get this at all - instead of having the best point in the game, Jason Kidd, from age 30-37 lets get Payton instead from ages 35-37.

Jason's too old, so sign someone five years older? I don't know what GP has ever done that Kidd hasn't. Kidd took a team whose second best player was Keith Van Horn to the Finals. Shawn Kemp took Payton to the Finals.

ducks
05-10-2003, 09:52 PM
gp can teach parker and you could also sign another star fa.


you do not have a LONG TERM CONTRACT on a old player. you can get out of the contract when parker is ready to be a point. two years with gp and parker could be quite impressive. I also think gp might even come for around 4 million or a little less. you sign oneal then payton. payton has mentioned he wants to play in sa.

ducks
05-10-2003, 09:54 PM
you do not have to have the best point guard to win a ring. aj was not the best point guard.

you have the best foward, best center(shaq will retire in 2 years if not before) with oneal, a better then average point, and manu and sj=dynasy

baseline bum
05-10-2003, 10:14 PM
I have a better chance of getting the MCX than Payton does in SA if they sign O'Neal. No way they can clear at least $16.5 million to do that.

scott
05-10-2003, 10:19 PM
Ducks Said:

from a business standpoint if they were thinking about selling the team after they sign a star fa would make sense

Not necessarily. The value of any asset is the present value of its future cash flows. Having Jason Kidd on our team ensures nothing to the new owners other than having a Max level Liability for the next 6-7 years.

BB said:


Kidd ensures a winner, which ensures a lot of season tickets and luxury boxes sold. Guaranteed money for every game - no need to spend a lot on advertising each game, no need to have HEB family nights where they have to sell the tickets at a huge discount, etc. People love a winner and with Kidd and Duncan plus our young core the Spurs would put one out every night. If they go out in the second you can bet that season ticket base is going down next year.

This was never the case when we had two superstars in David Robinson and Tim Duncan, so why would it be the case now?

We went out in the 1st or 2nd round for years and never suffered a decline in the ticket sales- why would we now? The kind of tickets people buy as season tickets where the Spurs make money aren't the tickets you can get on HEB Night- so I don't see where that arguement applies either.

baseline bum
05-10-2003, 10:26 PM
This was never the case when we had two superstars in David Robinson and Tim Duncan, so why would it be the case now?

We went out in the 1st or 2nd round for years and never suffered a decline in the ticket sales- why would we now? The kind of tickets people buy as season tickets where the Spurs make money aren't the tickets you can get on HEB Night- so I don't see where that arguement applies either

DRob wasn't a superstar after 2000, and the Spurs couldn't sell any season tickets at the Dome except after they won the title for the 99-00 season. Those promotions are done precisely because they can't sell enough season tickets to fill an arena when the shitty teams come to town. People aren't going to pay for season tickets for first and second round losses. Furthermore, adding a player like Kidd to an already solid supporting group of Parker, Manu, Jax, and Malik with the MVP of the league ensures the team is a title favorite for years.

Man in Black1
05-11-2003, 04:35 AM
:brotha

Furthermore, adding a player like Kidd to an already solid supporting group of Parker, Manu, Jax, and Malik with the MVP of the league ensures the team is a title favorite for years.

If you add Kidd to the MIX, ALL PERCEPTION OF THE SPURS IS COMPLETELY CHANGED. We all know that our team can run transition ball and has shown it in flashes of brilliance like the SJax to Manu Alley-oop. THE MEDIA AND THE REST OF THE US, they don't see that. If the Spurs brought in Kidd, The NATION WOULD EXPECT THAT BECAUSE KIDD IS HERE, THAT HOW THEY PLAY. How is that for impact?

Some people hold on too tight. They want to see the current crew win a championship and then rest on their laurels because they feel that it can get better because they have yet to reach their peak. What those people fail to realize is that a guy like Kidd,can make all of the current crew, REACH THEIR PEAKS MUCH FASTER.

It doesn't take a MENSA to figure it out, all it takes is an open mind and an ability to assess how skill sets and talents intermix. Some people got a long way to go. Others...they get it but they will shout at you to listen. ME...I KNOW THE TRUTH, FOR BLACK AND OBFUSCATION IS HOW I LIVE. I AM..MIB
MAN IN BLACK

Man in Black1
05-11-2003, 04:35 AM
:brotha

Furthermore, adding a player like Kidd to an already solid supporting group of Parker, Manu, Jax, and Malik with the MVP of the league ensures the team is a title favorite for years.

If you add Kidd to the MIX, ALL PERCEPTION OF THE SPURS IS COMPLETELY CHANGED. We all know that our team can run transition ball and has shown it in flashes of brilliance like the SJax to Manu Alley-oop. THE MEDIA AND THE REST OF THE US, they don't see that. If the Spurs brought in Kidd, The NATION WOULD EXPECT THAT BECAUSE KIDD IS HERE, THAT HOW THEY PLAY. How is that for impact?

Some people hold on too tight. They want to see the current crew win a championship and then rest on their laurels because they feel that it can get better because they have yet to reach their peak. What those people fail to realize is that a guy like Kidd,can make all of the current crew, REACH THEIR PEAKS MUCH FASTER.

It doesn't take a MENSA to figure it out, all it takes is an open mind and an ability to assess how skill sets and talents intermix. Some people got a long way to go. Others...they get it but they will shout at you to listen. ME...I KNOW THE TRUTH, FOR BLACK OPS AND OBFUSCATION IS HOW I LIVE. I AM..MIB
MAN IN BLACK

ducks
05-25-2006, 07:55 PM
I think tp last season should put the end to this

Spurologist
05-25-2006, 09:17 PM
A thread from the spurstalk archives. :worthy:

T Park
05-25-2006, 10:13 PM
oh my god

that dude predicted they would get Rasho, AND THEY DID!!!!!

rayray2k8
05-26-2006, 01:39 AM
Parker didnt play great against the mavs.
shit I would of traded parker for kidd this time.
Kidd cant shoot for shit either, but at least he can PASS the ball :lol

MadDog73
05-26-2006, 02:37 PM
Parker for Nash! :drunk

1Parker1
05-26-2006, 02:42 PM
:lmao This thread is bumped from...........2003.