Props to the first place Mavericks

[Rummpd]

Mouse et. al. your team darn looks good right now granted. Marty Burns has them number one for SI in the power rankings, and I cannot argue against that right now.

Last night against the Heat (albeit without Shaq) they kept withstanding runs and Dirk was sublime throwing in falling down threes etc.

Before the season I said don't "sleep on the Mavericks" in at least the West Conf regular season race, and they are evolving in a credible threat to challenge the Spurs for the Division at least and with a pickup of one or two of the right players they could become "scary".

Looking forward to the re-match game in the next week or so, Spurs do need to step up and make an early season statement.

[T Park]

You overvalue the Mavericks way too much.

[Rummpd]

How is that so? Mavericks are a solid, and still relatively deep team with a superstar and a growing committment for defense.

I do not believe they are as good as the Spurs but the Mavs are a good team and could well win high 50s to low 60s games. Spurs do not play up to potential or get an injury to a key few players, Mavs could take the division.

I would still take the Spurs over the Mavs even giving them the homecourt but it could be a tough series.

[td4mvp21]

I completely agree with Rummpd. You didn't see them play last night Tpark, the Mavericks looked really good, and their defense is pretty good. They shut us to 84 poitns, thats good defense. I think its us two in the West, with Denver behind us.

[Bruno]

I wasn't impressed by the Heat game.
Antoine Walker was in no-pass/ball hog mode. He was the main reason of Mav's success.
They couldn't stop Jayson Williams penetration, and Devin Harris/Jason Terry are poor playmakers, in the third quarter their offense was only 1vs1 and jumpshooting.
Zo's block on Harris was huge and shows that Harris has more heart than head.
They look better against Spurs .It's true that their defense is better than last year (like Suns) but I'm not sold on them (for the moment).

[1Parker1]

Dallas has beat the Spurs by 15+, the Pistons by 30+, and the Heat by 14+.......yea, they're really overvalued :rolleyes

[ducks]

did not dallas start off hot before like 2 years ago and never did anything
props to dallas so far but are they peakign to soon?
and then the spurs caught them :lol :lol :lol

[1Parker1]

did not dallas start off hot before like 2 years ago and never did anything
props to dallas so far but are they peakign to soon?

I never understood that...that could be said for any team in the league. My point was directed to whoever commented that the Mavs are over-valued. They are playing really well and deserve props. Who knows if they can continue this, but they should get credit for thoroughly beating the Spurs, Pistons, and Heat...I never thought they would have.

[ducks]

this early in the season some teams will beat the spurs because spurs usually start off slow and pop tries different things to see if they work

after the allstar break things will change and that is really when things matter

[leemajors]

dallas tied us for the division a few years ago. they usually have a more difficult time playing playoff type grind it out ball. it will be interesting to see how they do this year. they were very close to beating us in 2003 wcf. i think that was the last time dirk played big in the playoffs, especially after he broke a tooth.

[mavsfan1000]

The mavs are the spurs biggest threat I feel. If they meet in second round I have alot of confidence that they could pull it out. Alot of things have to go right but I like the matchups that Dallas has against the spurs.

[boutons]

"dallas tied us for the division a few years ago"

Tied for the season in 02/03, as Pop sat both Tim and SJax in Game82, Mavs@Spurs, Spurs lose meaningless game, stay at 60W, while Mavs achieve 60W.

Spurs got lucky in WCF with Dirk's knee getting hurt (Manu fell into the side of Dirk's knee under the basket after a play, very much like Manu into Leandro knee).

[mavsfan1000]

:lol Manu is dirty.

[Tek_XX]

The Mavs were like 17-0 to start that year.

[mavsfan1000]

Yeah but now the mavs play defense. They are giving up about 90 points per 48 minutes. That is great.

[leemajors]

let's wait until at least midseason to see if they keep playing defense.

[T Park]

You didn't see them play last night Tpark, the Mavericks looked really good

They played a Shaq less Heat team.

Whoopie.


Spurs do not play up to potential or get an injury to a key few players, Mavs could take the division.


if if if if if, could could could could, maybe maybe maybe.

[T Park]

Spurs got lucky in WCF with Dirk's knee getting hurt

How so, the Spurs were up 2-1, and it happened in game 4, wich the Spurs were up by 8 or 10 when he got hurt.

So, once again, I would like for the myth of the Spurs getting lucky in 03, would be brought up again.

Please OH PLEASE tell me again.

[td4mvp21]

Yeah, Boutons, do you really think we would have lost to them if Dirk didn't get injured? Duncan would not have let us with Robinson's final season. I think we would have beaten them with Dirk.

[mavsfan1000]

Than again the mavs are capable of coming back from 8 because of their explosive offense. With Dirk out the mavs lost that ability and the spurs won that game alot with the series. Also Dallas might've won game 6 with Dirk. Spurs got lucky no matter how you look at it.

[leemajors]

like barkley says, the best team always wins a 7 game series. the spurs were the better team that year, and won the title.

[boutons]

How can anybody be so stupid to think that Mavs losing Dirk's scoring and rebounding had no impact on the outcome sof any 03 WCF 03 games, and perhaps the series?

Spurs were lucky not to win, but NOT to have to play Mavs full strength.
Sorta like saying losing Tim in '00 had no effect on Spurs playoff results.

Some years, you're lucky, some years not.

[Pandaemonaeon]

did not dallas start off hot before like 2 years ago and never did anything

Yes, but if you look at their wins during the 60 win season you'll see that they have a bad record against the potential playoff teams: they won 1/4 against Sacramento, 1/4 against the Spurs (and that's with your main guys sitting), 1/4 against the Lakers (without Shaq), 2/2 with Minnesota, and so on. Basically, our record was a sham.

I think the most important part of all is that I can't remember the last time we've beaten the Spurs in the regular season with Duncan let alone via a blowout. Bear in mind we met you twice earlier in the season last year and you guys still kicked our asses.

I'm not saying Dallas is better than the Spurs because like I said in the other thread, we have a lot of work to do - point guard play, making use of Damp inside more (which is difficult considering his bad hands), consistency, etc. but I think this year's Mavs is different from the ones you've seen in the past.

[Brutalis]

Man. I'm starting to get fed up at these threads and comments after one loss.

Credit. Dallas is playing good, looking good, and so forth. There's your credit.

Here's the fact. NOBODY #$%^& CARES. It's about consistancy, rings, winning those clutch games, and doing it with defense. Awesome. Put up another ten 50+ win seasons, and keep doing what you're doing and the Mavs haven't improved a bit.

WIN SOMETHING. Dirk as a leader gets zero respect because the freaking Mavericks haven't even done what HOUSTON has done. Play good regular season ball all you want and give them all the credit you want, but until you have something to show for it, it's more like "Put one up, and then I'll shutup."

Not being big-headed. Just being honest. For once are you guys in Dallas going to prove you have something? I won't be looking out for it. I think a few other teams have been earning my attention. Put up or shutup.... repeat....repeat...

[Victor Newman]

Here's the fact. NOBODY #$%^& CARES. It's about consistancy, rings,

WIN SOMETHING.


So tell us all what you did prior to 1999? are you saying you never posted at a website saying the Spurs will win it all? Your saying ony after a ring you can talk smack?
or was the real reason you was just to young to be on the www back in 1999? how old are you?

so let me get this straight, all the fans of all teams in the NBA who don't have rings should just STFU? why should they? who made you GOD of the www? why are you special?

I am sure we would all like to know. I know I would.

[CharlieMac]

We gave them props a few years ago when they started 14-0 or some shit. Then, you know, the playoffs started....

[ducks]

Memphis 112 vs Dallas 92 see good teams some nights lose to lesser teams

[bigzak25]

regular season is to get better.

Spurs vs. Mavs, Western Conference Finals...it's Destiny. :tu

[ducks]

60% shooting for memphis tonight great d by the mavs

[mavsfan1000]

60% shooting for memphis tonight great d by the mavs
Shut the duck up. :lol

[MI21]

For those arguing about the Dallas vs Spurs 2003 WCF, Dallas played the Spurs tougher without Dirk. Small ball was killing the Spurs, even Walt Williams was performing :lol

[mavsfan1000]

For those arguing about the Dallas vs Spurs 2003 WCF, Dallas played the Spurs tougher without Dirk. Small ball was killing the Spurs, even Walt Williams was performing :lol

Now this is a stupid comment. Dallas would've had a chance to win the series if Dirk was healthy. They are good without Dirk but great with him.

[Brutalis]

So tell us all what you did prior to 1999? are you saying you never posted at a website saying the Spurs will win it all? Your saying ony after a ring you can talk smack?
or was the real reason you was just to young to be on the www back in 1999? how old are you?

so let me get this straight, all the fans of all teams in the NBA who don't have rings should just STFU? why should they? who made you GOD of the www? why are you special?

I am sure we would all like to know. I know I would.


Use common sense and understand that was a post towards the Dallas Mavericks. Or make a note of it.

I'm sure you would feel defensive enough to reply like that, but understand the point first. Besides, San Antonio has been a playoff team before 99', more so than the Mavs. You wanna compare history now or just a lesson?

And yes, winning a title gives you bragging rights to talk it up. You wouldn't know, or have seen that with other teams before?

Don't be so defensive and understand that winning a title doesn't just mean you can talk shit. If talking shit is what we're calling it.

[Brutalis]

Now this is a stupid comment. Dallas would've had a chance to win the series if Dirk was healthy. They are good without Dirk but great with him.
When does a team become great? Explain what must be done first.

[mavsfan1000]

Well great could be beating the spurs. Dirk was a tough matchup for the spurs.

[baseline bum]

Now this is a stupid comment. Dallas would've had a chance to win the series if Dirk was healthy. They are good without Dirk but great with him.

I doubt it. They played one good half against the Spurs with Dirk (the second half of game 1). They were down double digits on their homecourt in game 3 when he went down. After he got hurt Nelson was forced to put Najera in at the 4, and he made Duncan's life hell. Anytime Dirk was in the game it was a guaranteed 2 for Duncan.

Duncan's stats:

Games 1-3:
36 PPG
61.7% shooting
15.3 free throws attempted per game

Games 4-6:
25 PPG
51% shooting
7.67 free throws attempted per game

Najera forced the ball out of Duncan's hands, and the team had to rely on Parker and Stephen Jackson to carry a lot of the load the final three games. They weren't forced to foul as much to make up for Dirk's defensive inadeqacies. They had more than enough offense with Nash, Fin, and Van Exel, and having a hard-nosed defensive big like Najera in to guard Duncan made them world's tougher.

[mavsfan1000]

I thought Dirk would be guarding Bowen or Robinson. What was Nellie thinking? Stupid coach.

[MI21]

Now this is a stupid comment. Dallas would've had a chance to win the series if Dirk was healthy. They are good without Dirk but great with him.

Before you call me stupid, perhaps you should of thought about what was happening before Dirk went down, and then after. Baseline documented it well above.

The Spurs of 1998-2003 always seemed to struggle against smaller teams with good shooter. Milwaukee used to fix us up with Cassell, Allen, Robinson. Various Phoenix and Seattle outfits over the years, and the Mavs without Dirk.

When Dirk went down, it was as if Dallas thought, "Hell, we aren't expected to win this or even stay close, let's let our hearts take over and hustle, jack up shots and play with more energy" and that's exactly what they did.

Nash, Finley, Van Exel and Lafrentz along with Najera were often on the court at the same time, and 4 out of those 5 were deadly 3pt shooters. Bell got a few more minutes, helping more defensively than Dirk ever could. Walt Williams had a few moments with his outside shooting and the rotation was enough to give the Spurs somewhat inexperienced backcourt (2nd year Parker, Rookie Ginobili and young Speedy and Buckets) fits defensively.

If not for Stephen Jackson and Steve Kerr both turning into Reggie Miller during the 2nd half of Game 6, Dallas may have been coming back to the SBC, a place they had won twice already during the series, to play a Game 7. It would of also meant they were 2-1 against the Spurs without Dirk during the series.

Dallas were tougher without Dirk for the Spurs, than they were with him. Not so stupid, actually.

[mavsfan1000]

That's an interesting theory but Dallas playing well had nothing to do with Dirk being out. If anything Dirk could've added more to that hot shooting and the spurs couldn't do anything about it. Dirk is Dallas's best player and without them they are lucky to do as well as they did. That's why I thought Dallas could've beaten San Antonio. The other players got hot and that could've turned the series around.

[MI21]

That's an interesting theory but Dallas playing well had nothing to do with Dirk being out. If anything Dirk could've added more to that hot shooting and the spurs couldn't do anything about it. Dirk is Dallas's best player and without them they are lucky to do as well as they did. That's why I thought Dallas could've beaten San Antonio. The other players got hot and that could've turned the series around.

You don't understand.

All the offensive fluidity and problems they caused the Spurs stems back to being able to do something defensively. Baseline pointed how having Dirk on the floor hurt the Mavs defensively against Duncan, and it even extends further than that. Dirk did nothing to scare the guards away from driving at the hoop, where as having both Najera and Lafrentz out there is a little more intimidating, because Najera will put your ass on the ground (not to mention he is a solid defender even when not playing dirty) and Lafrentz was a fantastic helpside defender. Not having Dirk out there means better defense, less fouls because teamates don't have to recover from his mistakes and foul when put in awkward positions because of Dirk's inept D which means a faster flowing game which Dallas was killing the Spurs at. Transition baskets, jacked up 3's, Pick N Rolls on mismatches etc.

Duncan was having a Hakeem-like series until Dirk went down, and from then on he simply had a fantastic series. That was key in getting Dallas back in the series. I remember around the time many Mav's fans were agreeing.


That's why I thought Dallas could've beaten San Antonio. The other players got hot and that could've turned the series around.

The others players chances of getting hot would have been less had Dirk been there attempting his 15-20 shots per game. Not to mention the defensive problems that go along with having Dirk out there. (which aren't so great now, Dirk is merely a below average defender, rather than being fucking terrible).


I thought Dirk would be guarding Bowen or Robinson. What was Nellie thinking? Stupid coach.

:lol @ that shit. Dirk guarding David Robinson? Even in his 2003 state, Dave would of had Dirk fouled out in 15 minutes. Dirk on Bowen would work fine, if not for the fact that that means you have to have Lafrentz on either DRob or Duncan, then you have to suffer with having another big in the game to cover the 1 big that Lafrentz isn't covering. You want Shawn Bradley playing big minutes? See the problems Dirk created on defense with Dallas now? Without him, it cleared the way for Najera on Duncan, and LaFrentz on Drob.

[itzsoweezee]

big deal. this is the mavs every year: great regular season and then wilt away during the playoffs. nothing's going to change this year. it's still the spurs' championship to lose.

[Obstructed_View]

The Mavs got more production from the 4 spot when Dirk was out in 2003, on both ends of the floor.

[TheWriter]

That's why I thought Dallas could've beaten San Antonio.

In the first game you losers had to shot 52 freethrows or some stupid shit like that. And you only missed one time.

The worst reffed game ever. Even David Stern was pissed out at his own officials.

But even then you only won by 3.

The next game we won by 13.

The following game we won by 13.



The other players got hot and that could've turned the series around.

Why do you think they got hot? Because they were able to run and gun faster and better. They also got more shots.

[mavsfan1000]

Well Dallas could've put Dirk at small forward and still keep Lafrentz and Najera out there. A lineup of Lafrentz, Najera, Nowitzki, Finley, and Nash would fit against the spurs. Anyways this years team is better in athleticism, defense, slashing, and depth. Stackhouse hasn't even played a game this year and Dallas is 9-3. Dallas is better with Dirk than without.

[5ToolMan]

How so, the Spurs were up 2-1, and it happened in game 4, wich the Spurs were up by 8 or 10 when he got hurt.

So, once again, I would like for the myth of the Spurs getting lucky in 03, would be brought up again.

Please OH PLEASE tell me again.

You forgot to mention, Dallas "stole" game 1, the only game they won with Dirk, by making something like 49 of 50 FT's. Without the gift from the Zebras, big D and Dirk are swept.