Game Thread: Spurs at Raptors - Jan 4, 2022 - 6:00pm CT

[DC23]

1478397981565014032

[Chomag]

Is DJ still on covid protocol?

[BatManu20]

Spurs winning this one tbh. Raps lost to CLE by almost 50 a few days ago.

[BatManu20]

1478415358046478339

[BatManu20]

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[spurs10]

This schedule is brutal.

[Dex]

1478415358046478339

Weird, I thought it was reported that Murray was out of protocol but was "ramping back up".

[emanueldavidginobili]

DJ will be back tomorrow night against the Celtics.

Primos family will be in attendance tonight, hopefully he gets some decent minutes again and plays well in his first game as a pro in his home city of Toronto.

[objective]

So still no timetable for Zach Collins, who was supposed to be ready by Christmasb back when he was signed?

Has he even started practicing or 2 on 2 or anything? Is January a bust for him already?

[Leetonidas]

So still no timetable for Zach Collins, who was supposed to be ready by Christmasb back when he was signed?

Has he even started practicing or 2 on 2 or anything? Is January a bust for him already?

Was just about to post this. This is his timetable so i hope we see this dude within the next month or so but the fact that we haven't heard a peep makes me pessimistic

[Robz4000]

Said at the time of his signing that Collins wouldn't play a game for the Spurs.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Was just about to post this. This is his timetable so i hope we see this dude within the next month or so but the fact that we haven't heard a peep makes me pessimistic

Pop made this comment on the 20th of December, they also asked on this same day when Zach will be ready to start practicing and Pop said "hell if I know"
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[emanueldavidginobili]

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[Dejounte]

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tagging my buddy MultiTroll to throw his usual fit about this

[MultiTroll]

Present!

Make sure to use a little extra starch on Pops shorts tonight.

[Robz4000]

I'll be surprised if the Spurs can keep this game competitive into the fourth quarter tbh. Raptors are a bad match up for them even with Murray.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Wow Toronto is doing only friends and family for 3 weeks, 1,000 person capacity.

[Uriel]

It still blows my mind how there are no fans in the stadium. Canada is literally just across the border and not even that culturally different from the United States, yet has significantly different public health policies.

[offset formation]

Was just about to post this. This is his timetable so i hope we see this dude within the next month or so but the fact that we haven't heard a peep makes me pessimistic

was an article out that stated he was feeling good, had no setbacks but that he and the Spurs felt no need to rush him back. Read it as February or March.

[RC_Drunkford]

This should be another L

[Robz4000]

It still blows my mind how there are no fans in the stadium. Canada is literally just across the border and not even that culturally different from the United States, yet has significantly different public health policies.

The US health system is no different from that of a third world country despite being by far the richest.

[MultiTroll]

Btw I'm not on the "Primo should start every game of an 82 game season" wagon.
Altho when he is up with the Spurs, he should not be sitting on the bench watching bad habits by Bryn Forms. (Well, 95% of the time, 'grats on the recent Bonner outbreak by Detroit Bryn.)

"If i could really do what i wanted." :lol
FOH with that fertilizer.

[Uriel]

Would we be better off today if Toronto had given us OG instead of Poeltl?

[emanueldavidginobili]

1478509177546985481

Sucks he couldn't get a full crowd tonight.

[LeBowen]

Jakob 0-2 Poeltl.

[MultiTroll]

Would we be better off today if Toronto had given us OG instead of Poeltl?
Yes.

[BatManu20]

Tre Jones just too small.

[RC_Drunkford]

:lmao Poeltl is such a bum

[Dejounte]

Tre can’t continue to keep passing up these open shots

[BatManu20]

Yea Tre is struggling.

[itzsoweezee]

Watching Bryn try to dribble and be a playmaker might be worse than watching pretend to play defense

[Dejounte]

Tre is seriously hurting the team right now not just with his lack of shot, but his decision-making

[itzsoweezee]

Bum Forbes

[emanueldavidginobili]

what a shit show of a combo Tre/Bryn

[emanueldavidginobili]

Tre Jones looking shaky on the road....with no fans, not good lol.

[RC_Drunkford]

If Pop could do what he wants he would start Primo, but somebody forces him to start Tre Jones

[Dejounte]

White-Primo-Keldon-KBD-Poeltl line-up

[Dejounte]

White-Primo-Vassell-Keldon-Poeltl line-up

[emanueldavidginobili]

Like this lineup lets see how it works.

[BatManu20]

Primo missed the dunk :lol

[Dejounte]

Tre-Primo-Vassell-KBD-Poeltl line-up

[Uriel]

Achiuwa. I remember how many people on this board wanted him.

[Robz4000]

Spurs just don't take and make enough threes to keep up with modern NBA offenses without forcing crazy amounts of turnovers.

[BatManu20]

Tre Jones is fucking awful tonight. On both ends.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Tre simply cannot be out there if he's passing up threes.

[Dejounte]

Tre was on no man’s land and he still decided to drive to the basket :lmao

[BatManu20]

Primo on both ends. Nice.

[Dejounte]

Is Tre trying to get waived? This must be his worst game ever. That pass to KBD was atrocious

[Dex]

Jones looking like crap this last few minutes.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Get Jones out of the fucking game good god he's a disaster. Lmao of course Josh knocks down a three. Tre passes up a three turns it over god knows how many times in the last 5 minutes and Pop subs Josh out for Bryn. While just watching how shit the Tre/Bryn combo was.

[RC_Drunkford]

Tre Jones is by far the worst player on the court. But what can you do when Derrick White only takes 4 shots per half?

[Robz4000]

Seeing games like this reminds me that the Spurs don't do any game-to-game scouting tbh. Raptors have a solid game plan against the Spurs while SA is content to treat this as a glorified scrimmage.

[emanueldavidginobili]

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[BatManu20]

Lol Eubanks you dumbass

[emanueldavidginobili]

Derrick with the least amount of shot attempts out of everyone in the starting lineup lmao. Wake the fuck up man and step up.

[Dex]

Van Fleet looking like Van Jordan out there, figures.

[Dex]

I knew as soon as Pop sent Forbes and Eubanks to check in that this wasn't going to be fun to watch.

[NASpurs]

Spurs winning this one tbh. Raps lost to CLE by almost 50 a few days ago.

:lol

[Leetonidas]

God I hope the Spurs trade white. Dude is so fucking soft and inconsistent. Spurs need Murray back asap

[RC_Drunkford]

Derrick with the least amount of shot attempts out of everyone in the starting lineup lmao. Wake the fuck up man and step up.

he won’t. He couldn’t even do it against the G-League Pistons. He’s a soft Beta averaging 10 FGA since DJ is out

[Robz4000]

:lol anyone who thinks this Spurs team is better than their record

[NASpurs]

Unless you have Tim Duncan out there hiding their deficiencies, some guys shouldn't start at all.

[Dejounte]

SA is content to treat this as a glorified scrimmage.

It starts with the point guard. White just jogs up the court and that sets the tone. He and Murray balance each other out. Without Murray, it’s just complacency all game. No one is pushing the pace. Tre used to do that a little, but dude has fallen off the cliff lately.

[Robz4000]

It starts with the point guard. White just jogs up the court and that sets the tone. He and Murray balance each other out. Without Murray, it’s just complacency all game. No one is pushing the pace. Tre used to do that a little, but dude has fallen off the cliff lately.

Starts with the coach tbh. This has been an issue for years; the team doesn't take opponents seriously unless they're contenders.

:lol Pop used to practice and preach appropriate fear but now he's a broken record

[Dex]

:lol anyone who thinks this Spurs team is better than their record

As someone said in the other thread, they are what their record shows.

You can MAYBE excuse a couple wins or losses on lucky bounces, but 14-21 (going on 14-22) is what it is.

[emanueldavidginobili]

This is Tre Jones first real season really..he's 21, Primo turned 19 a week ago, Devin is only 21, Keldon is only 22, Forbes just sucks and then you have the highest paid player on the team that turns 28 this year and just refuses to step up and shies away. Spurs are now 30 plus games into the season and he is also healthy, Derrick has zero excuses.

[BatManu20]

:lol

The tank rolls on my boy :smokin

[Dex]

I can't help but notice that KJ hasn't been so great once Murray went out. He definitely needs that run game to open things up for him.

[dbestpro]

Nice to see Pop giving Jock all those minutes to spread the floor and open the game for the wings like he had done every minute his has touched the floor for the entire year.

[BackHome]

Poodle Power

[NASpurs]

Yeah I'm on the trade White team now. Package him with Young before his expiration date hits.

[Sugus]

Just tuning in, how we looking bois?

[Dejounte]

Tre-Primo-Vassell-Keldon-Primo line-up again

[BatManu20]

Pop looks so disinterested lol.

[Dejounte]

Primo does a good-to-great pass to Tre in the corner who passes up the 3…. Should have taken that 3, Primo

[KingKev]

The US health system is no different from that of a third world country despite being by far the richest.

We are approaching near lockdown once again in Ontario.

[NASpurs]

"Three-mo for Primo" hurts my soul

[NASpurs]

Yeah this team shouldn't be allowed back in the United States.

[Robz4000]

Pop looks so disinterested lol.

Wouldn't shock me if he retires the day after he gets the record. He stopped giving a fuck about modern NBA basketball the moment it became a three-point chuckfest.

[Sugus]

Looking like headless chickens out there, for real, damn

[Dejounte]

White-Forbes-Primo-KBD-Landale line-up

[duncan2k5]

White is inconsistent as usual... He will never be that guy... The quicker we accept it, the better

[MultiTroll]

Lets see Spurs lost Kwa, then Raptors lost Kwa.

Who has the better roster now?

[Sugus]

Wait a damn minute, Poeltl is the team's highest scorer with 19??? The fuck?? That's no recipe for success, the hell is up with everyone on the team?

[BackHome]

Poodle Power

[emanueldavidginobili]

So sick of these fucks deliberately passing up a pass to Primo just to make the more difficult pass.

[RC_Drunkford]

Wait a damn minute, Poeltl is the team's highest scorer with 19??? The fuck?? That's no recipe for success, the hell is up with everyone on the team?

pussies

[emanueldavidginobili]

Also the only team you'll see in todays NBA playing a soft ass zone.

[Uriel]

0-4 without Dejounte now on top of going 2-5 without Poeltl.

[RC_Drunkford]

White tries to get to the rim like that twice per game. He should be doing that all night

[Leetonidas]

It's comical how often the Spurs pass up an open shot only to take a much more difficult shot :lol

[paperboy77]

I can finally agree with Pop. This version of basket ball sucks ass! Dribble dribble dribble then spot a 3pt shooter... rinse and repeat. As soon as the ball goes down low the whistle blows. Boring ass basketball.

[Dex]

We literally look like we are playing pickup at the Y and got stuck with the captain who chooses all his friends because he made the three to pick.

[Dejounte]

Tre-Primo-Wieskamp-Keldon-Landale line-up

[KingKev]

We literally look like we are playing pickup at the Y and got stuck with the captain who chooses all his friends because he made the three to pick.

haha coach Pop is the guy who made 3

[MultiTroll]

We literally look like we are playing pickup at the Y and got stuck with the captain who chooses all his friends because he made the three to pick.
What is your Leader doing to correct? :pop::drunk

[SPURt]

"Three-mo for Primo" hurts my soul
HAHA! Me too! As soon as he said it I already knew it won’t be the last time we hear it.

[John B]

At least the Scotiabank Arena is empty not watching this spectacle

[KingKev]

Tre-Primo-Wieskamp-Keldon-Landale line-up

yikes!

[itzsoweezee]

I don’t think there’sa single player under 6’6” on the floor for the raptors right now. The spurs meanwhile…

[Sugus]

Why the FUCK are Landale and Ewwbanks sharing the court :lmao

[PhantomDashCam]

Absolute shambles out there. Very disheartening after the Detroit letdown.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Alright. We can't hoop.

[MultiTroll]

Making Primo play with Forbes.

Boy that sure helped DJ Murrays progression.

[Sugus]

Yeah, but you see, if only Primo were starting...!!

[Robz4000]

Not so bold prediction: Spurs will reach 14-28 before they reach 15 wins tbh.

[MultiTroll]

Yeah, but you see, if only Primo were starting...!!
And had 4 Forbes around him.

FOH

[John B]

yikes!
I actually like that line-up, one year from now

[SPURt]

This team can win healthy but take one any two pieces out of the rotation and they’re a G League team. White and Keldon have been absolutely awful in this skid. At least Wieskamp got the Spurs to 100 (shoulder shrug)?

[itzsoweezee]

Keldon Johnson is not good. There is absolutely no reason to start him.

[Sugus]

And had 4 Forbes around him.

FOH

:lol you can move that goalpost all you like, it's your only skill. Primo played major minutes tonight. Everyone on the team (sadly) has to deal with Forbes being there, per Pop's whimsical wishes.

[Marco]

KJ is 9-43 in the last three games.

[Sugus]

Keldon Johnson is not good. There is absolutely no reason to start him.

He's better than what the last couple games paint him as. It's to be expected that mishandled players don't play up to their potential. Keldon hurts the Spurs pretending he's a "PF", and the Spurs hurt Keldon putting him in a position to fail.

At this point, I wouldn't be opposed to bring him off the bench - but if you're bringing him as a bench 4, it's not much better, except for the talent level he'd play against.

[KingKev]

I actually like that line-up, one year from now

LOL.

[MultiTroll]

:lol you can move that goalpost all you like, it's your only skill. Primo played major minutes tonight. Everyone on the team (sadly) has to deal with Forbes being there, per Pop's whimsical wishes.
You know nothing about bb talent.

[Sugus]

BEAUTIFUL move by Primo. The patience, the poise, and the finish. Love it.

[Sugus]

You know nothing about bb talent.

I know about brain talent enough to see you have none :lol

[Dejounte]

White-Primo-Keldon-KBD-Poeltl line-up


White-Primo-Vassell-Keldon-Poeltl line-up


Tre-Primo-Vassell-KBD-Poeltl line-up


Tre-Primo-Vassell-Keldon-Primo line-up again


White-Forbes-Primo-KBD-Landale line-up


Tre-Primo-Wieskamp-Keldon-Landale line-up

All the line-ups tonight with Primo in it (meaningful minutes only)

[Robz4000]

He's better than what the last couple games paint him as. It's to be expected that mishandled players don't play up to their potential. Keldon hurts the Spurs pretending he's a "PF", and the Spurs hurt Keldon putting him in a position to fail.

At this point, I wouldn't be opposed to bring him off the bench - but if you're bringing him as a bench 4, it's not much better, except for the talent level he'd play against.

This tbh. It's one of the reasons I'd look to trade him sooner rather than later. As far as I'm concerned though, no one on this roster is untradable.

[KingKev]

No minutes for Thad!

[BackHome]

Spurs should be shopping White or at least letting teams he is available with the right trade

[Dejounte]

From bad to worst:

Bad:
Landale - Didn’t necessarily hurt the team, but he was just “there”

Awful:
White - Much is expected from him because he clearly has talent, but dude just doesn’t want to take control of the team. He’d rather jog up the court and set a tone that’s awful for the team
Forbes - Not going to waste time here, everybody knows

Downright embarrassing:
Tre Jones - did not look like an NBA player tonight. He hurt the team BADLY with his decision making and constant passing up of shots
Keldon Johnson - Just low, low basketball IQ ever since Murray went out. What the fuck is he doing driving into a crowded paint?

[KingKev]

Spurs should be shopping White or at least letting teams he is available with the right trade

He probably has very little, if any trade value.

[emanueldavidginobili]

At this point I honestly think Primo can put up better numbers than Lonnie given the same minutes.

[Sugus]

This tbh. It's one of the reasons I'd look to trade him sooner rather than later. As far as I'm concerned though, no one on this roster is untradable.

Yeah, K's a fan favorite and I really like him, buuuut... He's not really untouchable by any means. I keep waiting for him to "figure it out" but he never does. He's a good trade piece too, he should have decent value given his player profile and recent Olympics appearance.

Something about him tells me to keep him, though. Under a different coach and an actual, well-built roster around him, he could excel. Sad to see him jumping on that Lonnie wagon of "will probably do better for his next team than our own".

[KingKev]

At this point I honestly think Primo can put up better numbers than Lonnie given the same minutes.

That’s a very low bar but probably true

[Sugus]

At this point I honestly think Primo can put up better numbers than Lonnie given the same minutes.

No reason they can't share the court, tbh. Pop evidently sees Primo as a fluid 2-3, same as Lonnie, and they have quite different games. I'd definitely much rather see a Lonnie-Primo pairing than Lonnie-Forbes or Primo-Forbes...

[emanueldavidginobili]

Also looks like KJs three point shooting is crashing back down to reality 4-20 from downtown in his last 4 games. Again love his heart, hustle and passion but he needs to have a helluva offseason and work on a ton of things. Only 22 though and you have to hope he has a lot of room to grow but right now he's raw as hell.

Question who was better at this age DJ or KJ?

[emanueldavidginobili]

No reason they can't share the court, tbh. Pop evidently sees Primo as a fluid 2-3, same as Lonnie, and they have quite different games. I'd definitely much rather see a Lonnie-Primo pairing than Lonnie-Forbes or Primo-Forbes...
I agree completely, I would love seeing them on the court together, all day. I was just pretty much saying like damn Primo is already this good that he can possibly put up Lonnie Walker stats given the same amount of minutes and him just turning 19 last week.

[KingKev]

No reason they can't share the court, tbh. Pop evidently sees Primo as a fluid 2-3, same as Lonnie, and they have quite different games. I'd definitely much rather see a Lonnie-Primo pairing than Lonnie-Forbes or Primo-Forbes...

In my mind all 3 of White/Walker/Primo are backup 2s, Vassel a back 2/3. White can play some point and Primo can play some 3 but these guys should all be battling for the same role unless Primo becomes a starter.

In a perfect world Forbes, Walker and White are all gone next year and Primo is given extended minutes to show why he was a late lottery pick.

[DAF86]

I just saw the score. At least Primo got a career high. Did he play well?

[KingKev]

Also looks like KJs three point shooting is crashing back down to reality 4-20 from downtown in his last 4 games. Again love his heart, hustle and passion but he needs to have a helluva offseason and work on a ton of things. Only 22 though and you have to hope he has a lot of room to grow but right now he's raw as hell.

Question who was better at this age DJ or KJ?

DJ hands down. He was already an elite defender at that point.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1478554480941703172

[MultiTroll]

I just saw the score. At least Primo got a career high. Did he play well?
Looked great at times, treys were sunk.
Several shitty passes all picked off in the last 3-4 minutes.

Made to play alongside Bryn Forms.
Confident you will realize that impact on O and especially D.

[Dejounte]

Like others, I love Keldon’s fire. The question is: do we, as fans, exercise patience with him the same way we did with Murray? Does he have an extra gear in him before he reaches the age of 25? It ended up being worth it with Murray…

Seems like 25 years old is a good benchmark to have for slower, raw developing players.

[Robz4000]

1478554480941703172

Nick Nurse the Canadian national team coach or are they outright colluding him to the Raptors?

[offset formation]

I just saw the score. At least Primo got a career high. Did he play well?

Not as good as Poeltl who is undoubtedly a top 5 center.

[KingKev]

Like others, I love Keldon’s fire. The question is: do we, as fans, exercise patience with him the same way we did with Murray? Does he have an extra gear in him before he reaches the age of 25? It ended up being worth it with Murray…

Seems like 25 years old is a good benchmark to have for slower, raw developing players.

Should start by playing him at the 3 for most of his minutes. Where would that extra gear(s) be? He doesn’t do anything particularly well at this point. He should definitely be offered a similar extension to that of White/DJ but I can’t see him becoming elite at anything. Solid role player who provides energy, hustle, muscle and does a little
bit of everything most nights.

[Dex]

Nick Nurse the Canadian national team coach or are they outright colluding him to the Raptors?

Both tbh

[Sugus]

Should start by playing him at the 3 for most of his minutes. Where would that extra gear(s) be? He doesn’t do anything particularly well at this point. He should definitely be offered a similar extension to that of White/DJ but I can’t see him becoming elite at anything. Solid role player who provides energy, hustle, muscle and does a little
bit of everything most nights.

He's already pretty elite at driving, TBF. I don't know which stats would catch this or how to quantify it, but he's got amazing touch at the rim and a body type that's perfect for penetration (yes, I know).

The "extra gear" is really in the mind - to better discern when to drive and when to kick, how to NOT drive repeatedly into a set defense and "just hope for the best", the ability to take (and hit) more pull-up midrangers (which sadly disappeared after preseason) to keep the defense honest..... He's a one trick pony right now, but it's a damn good pony. If he can get some more tricks under his sleeve and pass out better, he'd improve by a mile without really getting that much "better at basketball" so to speak.

I'll also say that the Spurs really aren't suited for his needs. Similarly to DeMar, Keldon would work best with a spaced-out offense that lets him go to work in the paint and pass out as needed. Poeltl clogging the lane, White with his timid shooting, and the lack of a true 3 to his 4 (or rather, a true 4 to his being a 3) all hurt Keldon and make his game tougher than it should be.

[tim_duncan_fan]

There's no reason not to play Primo full rotation player minutes at this point.

[KingKev]

He's already pretty elite at driving, TBF. I don't know which stats would catch this or how to quantify it, but he's got amazing touch at the rim and a body type that's perfect for penetration (yes, I know).

The "extra gear" is really in the mind - to better discern when to drive and when to kick, how to NOT drive repeatedly into a set defense and "just hope for the best", the ability to take (and hit) more pull-up midrangers (which sadly disappeared after preseason) to keep the defense honest..... He's a one trick pony right now, but it's a damn good pony. If he can get some more tricks under his sleeve and pass out better, he'd improve by a mile without really getting that much "better at basketball" so to speak.

I'll also say that the Spurs really aren't suited for his needs. Similarly to DeMar, Keldon would work best with a spaced-out offense that lets him go to work in the paint and pass out as needed. Poeltl clogging the lane, White with his timid shooting, and the lack of a true 3 to his 4 (or rather, a true 4 to his being a 3) all hurt Keldon and make his game tougher than it should be.

Yeah I agree with all of this. Our overall roster construction is just so poor it makes everyone’s job that much tougher. Regardless i’m not anywhere close to giving up on him like I am White/Walker but think his ceiling is capped at a quality role player.

[KingKev]

There's no reason not to play Primo full rotation player minutes at this point.

You obviously haven’t gotten over yourself.

[twincam]

Finally back down to reality. Losing again.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Good L boys!

Good burn for the younguns, good step toward the draft! :toast

[Robz4000]

He's already pretty elite at driving, TBF. I don't know which stats would catch this or how to quantify it, but he's got amazing touch at the rim and a body type that's perfect for penetration (yes, I know).

The "extra gear" is really in the mind - to better discern when to drive and when to kick, how to NOT drive repeatedly into a set defense and "just hope for the best", the ability to take (and hit) more pull-up midrangers (which sadly disappeared after preseason) to keep the defense honest..... He's a one trick pony right now, but it's a damn good pony. If he can get some more tricks under his sleeve and pass out better, he'd improve by a mile without really getting that much "better at basketball" so to speak.

I'll also say that the Spurs really aren't suited for his needs. Similarly to DeMar, Keldon would work best with a spaced-out offense that lets him go to work in the paint and pass out as needed. Poeltl clogging the lane, White with his timid shooting, and the lack of a true 3 to his 4 (or rather, a true 4 to his being a 3) all hurt Keldon and make his game tougher than it should be.

:lol so basically Keldon would look better on any other team

[Sugus]

:lol so basically Keldon would look better on any other team

Absolutely, what can I say? Lmao, Spurs offense is simply not up to date with the modern NBA. It doesn't matter how "small" you try to go, if your smaller players are literally worse shooters than an average-sized player at that position would be... There's literally no advantage to small ball there :lol

[offset formation]

Why the FUCK are Landale and Ewwbanks sharing the court :lmao

I believe it was already garbage time by the time they played together. I believe we had already been down by 30+ tbh.

Im honestly not complaining. *This* is what ive been begging for for a year. Finally, all the young or new guys got run (Vassell, Jones, Primo, Weiskamp, Landale, Eubanks, hell even a G-leaguer got some PT.

This is what I've wanted. Play your guys and SUCK ass so you can get a really high draft pick. As it stands now we are as far under .500 as we've been all year and are only 1.5 games out of 14th in the west. I'll take it with a smile on my face.

[Dejounte]

Keldon’s more-than-role player ceiling (if he has one) begins with his combination of driving ability and physicality while doing so. Unfortunately, he has lacked the finesse to make those contested layups actually go in. That, and his lack of common sense of when to attack the basket and when not to attack. He has never shown glimpses of being a lock down defender. So if he’s going to hang his hat onto something, he needs to figure out how to make those layups go in. Right now, he’s in that close-but-no-cigar territory with layups hitting the rim only to bounce off. If he continues to work on that, then the rest of his game can come later.

[Thomas82]

Unless you have Tim Duncan out there hiding their deficiencies, some guys shouldn't start at all.

+1

[KingKev]

Keldon’s more-than-role player ceiling (if he has one) begins with his combination of driving ability and physicality while doing so. Unfortunately, he has lacked the finesse to make those contested layups actually go in. That, and his lack of common sense of when to attack the basket and when not to attack. He has never shown glimpses of being a lock down defender. So if he’s going to hang his hat onto something, he needs to figure out how to make those layups go in. Right now, he’s in that close-but-no-cigar territory with layups hitting the rim only to bounce off. If he continues to work on that, then the rest of his game can come later.

One thing we shouldn’t discount is someone’s ability to learn. He is young and between his motor, athletic ability, frame, all those physical attributes etc etc just doing some small things better will make him substantially more better.

[SPURt]

There's no reason not to play Primo full rotation player minutes at this point.
Weren’t they talking about this pre-game? They said Pop was contemplating “throwing him into the fire like Tony”. Then they talked about how Tony was playing pro ball in France, so the transition would be harder for Primo.

[KingKev]

He's already pretty elite at driving, TBF. I don't know which stats would catch this or how to quantify it, but he's got amazing touch at the rim and a body type that's perfect for penetration (yes, I know).

The "extra gear" is really in the mind - to better discern when to drive and when to kick, how to NOT drive repeatedly into a set defense and "just hope for the best", the ability to take (and hit) more pull-up midrangers (which sadly disappeared after preseason) to keep the defense honest..... He's a one trick pony right now, but it's a damn good pony. If he can get some more tricks under his sleeve and pass out better, he'd improve by a mile without really getting that much "better at basketball" so to speak.

I'll also say that the Spurs really aren't suited for his needs. Similarly to DeMar, Keldon would work best with a spaced-out offense that lets him go to work in the paint and pass out as needed. Poeltl clogging the lane, White with his timid shooting, and the lack of a true 3 to his 4 (or rather, a true 4 to his being a 3) all hurt Keldon and make his game tougher than it should be.

body type for penetration aka face down ass up!!!

[Thomas82]

I believe it was already garbage time by the time they played together. I believe we had already been down by 30+ tbh.

Im honestly not complaining. *This* is what ive been begging for for a year. Finally, all the young or new guys got run (Vassell, Jones, Primo, Weiskamp, Landale, Eubanks, hell even a G-leaguer got some PT.

This is what I've wanted. Play your guys and SUCK ass so you can get a really high draft pick. As it stands now we are as far under .500 as we've been all year and are only 1.5 games out of 14th in the west. I'll take it with a smile on my face.


Cosign!!

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Weren’t they talking about this pre-game? They said Pop was contemplating “throwing him into the fire like Tony”. Then they talked about how Tony was playing pro ball in France, so the transition would be harder for Primo.

They referenced a quote from pop where he says something about being tempted to throw Primo into the fire like they did with TP but then sheepishly says they think it's better for his development for doing it slowly but doesnt ever expound on why it was ok for TP. Not a good look from pop, iyam. Makes it seem kinda like the game is passing him by to be unwilling to do it again.

[John B]

Yeah, K's a fan favorite and I really like him, buuuut... He's not really untouchable by any means. I keep waiting for him to "figure it out" but he never does. He's a good trade piece too, he should have decent value given his player profile and recent Olympics appearance.

Something about him tells me to keep him, though. Under a different coach and an actual, well-built roster around him, he could excel. Sad to see him jumping on that Lonnie wagon of "will probably do better for his next team than our own".

Keldon should’ve been traded already after the Olympic when his stock was high. Teans will start to see that he’s a one-trick pony. I like his motor, but if other teams would value him more, his rookie contract, his potential, I would let him go with Thad and whoever to get a Simmons or “whoever” could push a needle, Sabonis, Turner, Grant? Include White in that package also. He’s a Beta and would alwYs just be a role player despite his skills. No dog in him, sadly

[John B]

They referenced a quote from pop where he says something about being tempted to throw Primo into the fire like they did with TP but then sheepishly says they think it's better for his development for doing it slowly but doesnt ever expound on why it was ok for TP. Not a good look from pop, iyam. Makes it seem kinda like the game is passing him by to be unwilling to do it again.

TP was an experienced international by 19. While Primo is much talented, he has yet to battle. Also, TP had Timmy, DRob and other veteran guys in the team. Primo has none and could easily get the bad habit. I’m okay with playing patch-up minutes, but he would learn more playing consistent minutes in the GLeague, imo.

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TP was an experienced international by 19. While Primo is much talented, he has yet to battle. Also, TP had Timmy, DRob and other veteran guys in the team. Primo has none and could easily get the bad habit. I’m okay with playing patch-up minutes, but he would learn more playing consistent minutes in the GLeague, imo.

**Perhaps** in a G-League playing the regulation 70 games or whatever. But this season is doing like 48, and that was before they cancelled the next like 3 weeks of games. Hell, they might end up just cancelling it all at this point with as many players are being signed to 10-days to cover missing NBA guys. He's simply not getting much run. And thats a travesty to his development whether or not there's a Big 3 to watch or not. Btw, remember the TP quote about Timmy hardly talking to him off the court at all his 1st year. Its not like they were mentoring him because pop used to have fire and get in his guy's ass. TP could hardly come up for air with Pop. Im not sure if he just doesnr have the time or energy now but he's more like Mr. Rogers with his team...yet still a prick to the media.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Absolutely, what can I say? Lmao, Spurs offense is simply not up to date with the modern NBA. It doesn't matter how "small" you try to go, if your smaller players are literally worse shooters than an average-sized player at that position would be... There's literally no advantage to small ball there :lol

They are also not faster. Which negates the point of being small. Lmao

[DAF86]

Not as good as Poeltl who is undoubtedly a top 5 center.

Yeah, I know. Poelt was the Spurs' top scorer, rebounder and assister, plus he had the best +/- in the team. He's the reason we lose games though, apparently.

[R. DeMurre]

Yeah, I know. Poelt was the Spurs' top scorer, rebounder and assister, plus he had the best +/- in the team. He's the reason we lose games though, apparently.

D White had the best +/- on the team of the starters this game.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360382

[rjv]

other than primo and 1st half Vassel, last night was the most painful game of the season to watch. and i don't know what's up with Keldon, but he has been beyond awful so far this road trip.

[Sugus]

I believe it was already garbage time by the time they played together. I believe we had already been down by 30+ tbh.

Im honestly not complaining. *This* is what ive been begging for for a year. Finally, all the young or new guys got run (Vassell, Jones, Primo, Weiskamp, Landale, Eubanks, hell even a G-leaguer got some PT.

This is what I've wanted. Play your guys and SUCK ass so you can get a really high draft pick. As it stands now we are as far under .500 as we've been all year and are only 1.5 games out of 14th in the west. I'll take it with a smile on my face.

Yep, totally agreed. I said it in another thread, this season is going pretty much picture perfect to me so far. We're ever-closer to a top lotto pick, giving plenty of time and increased role to every young player we have, and a few of them have blossomed or are in the process of developing under our eyes. The roster's unbalanced construction is honestly a blessing in disguise, preventing the Spurs from fielding "too solid" lineups and ending up on a treadmill.

The games can suck to watch sometimes when we play a very large and long team like the Raptors, but I've honestly had more fun watching the young guys grow than I did all of last season, and maybe more than the 3 seasons DDR was here. That always felt like disappointment waiting to happen...

[Sugus]

Keldon should’ve been traded already after the Olympic when his stock was high. Teans will start to see that he’s a one-trick pony. I like his motor, but if other teams would value him more, his rookie contract, his potential, I would let him go with Thad and whoever to get a Simmons or “whoever” could push a needle, Sabonis, Turner, Grant? Include White in that package also. He’s a Beta and would alwYs just be a role player despite his skills. No dog in him, sadly

Barf, anyone but Simmons, please.

To be honest, it's always tricky trying to determine which "one-trick" young players have reached their probable ceiling, and which haven't. At Keldon's age, Dejounte wasn't displaying nearly the playmaking, shooting, and composure that he's grown to have, and you could similarly have said "sell high on him after his All-D selection, before other teams realize he can't shoot nor dribble!!" and it would've bit you in the ass. I think, out of anyone in the roster, Keldon has by far one of the best work ethics, from his attitude to his worked body to his on-court display of heart. At the end of the day, those types of "intangibles" make me much more hesitant to trade him, than some other player with an apparently higher ceiling, but maybe not the "fire" to reach it (cough, Lonnie).

As for White? Yeah, ship him off any day you want. Really disappointed in him. Maybe not even disappointed, but sad... It's clear to see that he's just not the same player he once was. Timid, shy, too reliant on jumpshots that were never his game before. Injuries have taken a toll on him and we'd be wise to sell on him before other teams catch on.