Marc Stein: Raps interested in trading for Poeltl

[pookenstein]

Found this on realgm

The Toronto Raptors have interest in trading for Jakob Poeltl.The Raptors traded Poeltl to the San Antonio Spurs in 2019 as part of the Kawhi Leonard. Poeltl re-signed with the Spurs during the 2020 offseason on a three-year, $27 million deal.
The Raptors are 11-4 over their past 15 games and are now in playoff contention with a need at center.
Toronto sits at less than $300,000 below the luxury tax line, which could complicate the way they approach improving their roster.

What would we want from the Raps? What would be realistic? Do we even wnat to trade Jakob?

[slick'81]

:lol1st rnd pick incoming

[pookenstein]

Just saw the "news" already beeing brought up in the "potential deals for all 30 teams" thread. So nevermind this one...

[Chinook]

They can be as interested as they want. I don't know that Ujuri's interested into to pay the first-rounder the Spurs should require to move Poeltl this season. They don't need any more random seconds, and they have their own meh prospects to worry about before taking on some from the Raptors.

[Leetonidas]

Well, the raps are one of the few team Spurs have ever traded with multiple times :lol

[CGD]

I guess can put on this thread too, but Raptors said to be willing to part with OG for Turner. So Jak + ___ could theoretically equal OG too

[Sugus]

Can't wait for ST to get whiplash falling over themselves on Jakob's games once he's no longer with us :lol

TBH, I'd do it. For no other reason than it signals a True Tank Job. Let's get this actually started up.

[TD 21]

Poeltl is probably a fallback option for Turner. This is more than likely the typical Raptors see if they can get something for nothing crap. They'd probably offer Boucher and Achiuwa.



I guess can put on this thread too, but Raptors said to be willing to part with OG for Turner. So Jak + ___ could theoretically equal OG too

That would surprise me, but Poeltl+ wouldn't be the equivalent of Turner because of the shooting.

The Raptors lack shooting as is and parting with Anunoby would only exacerbate that. Turning him into Poeltl+ would be untenable next to Siakam and Barnes.

[Fusternino]

Don't the Raptors still have the worst C rotation in the league?

Forbes and Poeltl for OG and a SRP or Poeltl for Barnes straight up. I don't see much reason to play nice with the Raptors and we will don't know what we have with Zollins.

[Ignazzz]

OG is out of range.

[Mr. Body]

Poeltl is a very good defensive center on an inexpensive contract who shows good hub activity on offense (despite sucking at fts). Why trade him?

[KingKev]

Let’s keep Barnes out of any of our wet dreams gents…

[TDomination]

Unless we get something great from them like they got from us, no can do.

[slick'81]

We couldn't pry away og for kawhi. We aren't getting him for poodle

[CGD]

OG is out of range.

I suspect you’re right. They’d probably have to make the deal bigger than they’d like, such as including Derrick and Precious on the other side of the equation.

[LeBowen]

A few months back I wrote about Siakam being a potential trade target. That was before he recovered and started playing well.

I hoped they'd make him available and go with OG-Barnes wing duo.

I'd still try with Jakob+Derrick+Lonnie and Chicago pick, can't hurt.

The time to trade Poeltl is now. The next season he'll be on an expiring deal and surely ask for 15 million a year, if not more. His FTs aren't improving and if this roster ever makes it to the playoffs, he'd be a liability. Not to mention everyone else on the roster desperately needs a shooting big. It's easier to trade Jakob than everyone else. His trade value will only go down from here.


My pipe dreams aside, PATFO will get bent over again if the trade happens.

[TDomination]

We couldn't pry away og for kawhi. We aren't getting him for poodle
Big difference though when the player being traded has vocally voiced his want to go to a specific city.
Spurs had almost no leverage when trading kawhi. And made teams not want to give up much for a 1 year rental.

Poeltl on the other hand could easily stay with Raptors until retirement if traded. No drama will follow him and he's a great defensive player on a good contract.
Entirely different mindset here.

[exstatic]

We couldn't pry away og for kawhi. We aren't getting him for poodle

They’re the team calling this time. They’re the team in need. The literally don’t have a center. We have the leverage, because we don’t have a need to do a deal. If we can’t get OG, say bye, and hang up. They’re within $300K of the tax, so Poeltl is probably a better option than Turner, who makes a bag of money.

[Chinook]

:lol OG?

Nah. Insofar as Toronto is looking at Jakob, it's as a buyer, not a seller. OG would easily be the better return than Poeltl. The best I could see the Spurs getting is Boucher and a first. I have a feeling Masai wouldn't even accept that, and we already know PATFO isn't going to play legit hardball about it, especially if Poeltl tells them he wants to go back.

Of course, with the HEB commercials, they might not be nearly as willing to move Poeltl before the off-season as they should be.

[Degoat]

Call me a hater but if the spurs can get a first rounder or any value for Jakob they need to do it. He’s important to the team but in a playoff series all teams have to do is foul/hack and he’d be played off the floor

[objective]

Does Brian Wright's old Orlando cubicle buddy still work in Toronto?

Spurs about to get wrecked if so.

[CGD]

Call me a hater but if the spurs can get a first rounder or any value for Jakob they need to do it. He’s important to the team but in a playoff series all teams have to do is foul/hack and he’d be played off the floor

I agree and i think this is the optimal time to act. My hope is that Zollins was signed with this in mind. Will they act though, quien sabe?

[slick'81]

Big difference though when the player being traded has vocally voiced his want to go to a specific city.
Spurs had almost no leverage when trading kawhi. And made teams not want to give up much for a 1 year rental.

Poeltl on the other hand could easily stay with Raptors until retirement if traded. No drama will follow him and he's a great defensive player on a good contract.
Entirely different mindset here.

im fine with the deal but i highly doubt it

[baseline bum]

Toronto can want him all they want but they have nothing to trade for him other than Barnes, who they obviously wouldn't trade for Poetl.

[CGD]

The best thing that can happen from this credible rumor is that it spurs other teams to call

[rascal]

The Spurs don't trade.

[Robz4000]

Toronto can want him all they want but they have nothing to trade for him other than Barnes, who they obviously wouldn't trade for Poetl.

We all know the Spurs will trade him for pennies on the dollar to "do right by him".

[John B]

A few months back I wrote about Siakam being a potential trade target. That was before he recovered and started playing well.

I hoped they'd make him available and go with OG-Barnes wing duo.

I'd still try with Jakob+Derrick+Lonnie and Chicago pick, can't hurt.

The time to trade Poeltl is now. The next season he'll be on an expiring deal and surely ask for 15 million a year, if not more. His FTs aren't improving and if this roster ever makes it to the playoffs, he'd be a liability. Not to mention everyone else on the roster desperately needs a shooting big. It's easier to trade Jakob than everyone else. His trade value will only go down from here.


My pipe dreams aside, PATFO will get bent over again if the trade happens.


This. I’d seriously consider packaging Poeltl now for a 1RP or to what will ultimately get Spurs closer to a tier 1 player. Poeltl’s value is his cheap contract but will ultimately ask for a raise as he himself said. I would play Landale and see what Zollins has left, and draft an athletic big. Sell high. :lol

[poopbox]

IF they can get a 1st spurs need to trade him ASAP. Poeltl puts a ceiling on how good this team can be...which isn't very good. It doesn't matter how good your defense is, and Poeltl's is vastly overrated because any big with a pulse out performs him, you are not winning consistently at an nba level if you playing a big with no offense game who can't make free throws for half the game.

I asked in another thread who would even want to trade for Poeltl and now we have an answer. Only team who already fleeced the spurs in another trade. Masai left his balls in Pop mouth on that one and now he has come to collect them :lol

[Em-City]

Is Chris boucher that bad? He blocks shots and can hit 3s

[RC_Drunkford]

I'd do it for OG or a 1st rounder. Doubt that that's realistic though. Also if the Spurs trade Poeltl, they should definitely go after Myles Turner

[B1gduff]

Lol why would the Raptor trade Og? You could say Og might be more important for them than a Center. He could help defend guys like Young, Harden, Kyrie, Kd, Derozan, Lavine..etc Something that m9ost C can't do.

[Mr. Body]

Sure, trade our second best player for a first rounder. Brilliant.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Hopefully start a bidding war with Charlotte :lol They need a center even more than Toronto and they were interested in Poeltl in free agency.

[exstatic]

Lol why would the Raptor trade Og? You could say Og might be more important for them than a Center. He could help defend guys like Young, Harden, Kyrie, Kd, Derozan, Lavine..etc Something that m9ost C can't do.

They already have Siakam, Scotty Barnes, and no center on their roster. That’s why. Toronto is the interested party here, not us. If it’s not OG, you say goodbye, and hang up the phone.

[cd98]

Jakob has legit value. He was a lottery pick. You can’t trade him for anything less than what would be the equivalent of a lottery pick. I wouldn’t trade him for a bottom 14 pick. Why? He’s good and still young.

[Mr. Body]

Jakob has legit value. He was a lottery pick. You can’t trade him for anything less than what would be the equivalent of a lottery pick. I wouldn’t trade him for a bottom 14 pick. Why? He’s good and still young.

Yeah. People here are pathologically stupid.

[td4mvp2k]

if your SA you try to get OG even include walker if u need to tbh

[FutureMan]

They already have Siakam, Scotty Barnes, and no center on their roster. That’s why. Toronto is the interested party here, not us. If it’s not OG, you say goodbye, and hang up the phone.

If I remember correctly, I think a lot of people wanted OG over Poeltl back when the Leonard trade happened.

[offset formation]

You take a first and try very hard not to laugh at the Raptors misfortune...if they'd even agree to that deal before realizing they've been had. You take Boucher and a SRP too.

[Chinook]

Toronto is apparently not happy with Khem Birch after giving him $21 Million guaranteed. Those types of bad contract combined with meh picks formed much of the criticism of Ujuri leading up to the Leonard trade. That they won with Siakam developing into a star and VanVleet playing a legit role basically quieted most of the doubters. We'll have to see how they continue to build their roster. I wouldn't be surprised to see them have more Birch-like regrets.

[MannyIsGod]

If the Spurs keep losing at the current pace for a couple weeks f weeks, it's quite possible they become more likely to move players at the deadline. It's ironic because I think poeltl is playing his worst ball of the season right now. I am high on him, but I am not adverse to trading him for OG or a first. I want no part of Sialam.

[Dejounte]

His play of late has been indefensible and truthfully, the team goes nowhere if he’s your second best player on the team. (On the flip side of that, it’s not his fault he’s the second best. Someone else has to rise up) Definitely not opposed to seeing him go and wouldn’t mind it if it was for a first round pick. I wouldn’t take OG— don’t think there’s much upside there at all.

Trading Poeltl could be one of those moves that we’d regret. I could easily see him performing much better if he was part of a rotation that relies on him less on offense and defense.

[CGD]

Jakob has legit value. He was a lottery pick. You can’t trade him for anything less than what would be the equivalent of a lottery pick. I wouldn’t trade him for a bottom 14 pick. Why? He’s good and still young.

Of course. Dumb to dump him for a crappy first, but if TOR really wants him you make a big demand. Siakam’s deal is a nonstarter, they’re not trading Barnes, so the only guy that makes sense is OG even if it means spurs have to expand the trade within reason.

Beside that just keep him.

[Trueblood]

Some of ya'll are completely missing the point. Toronto is on an 11-2 run. They are not planning to trade any key players, period. They want to get JP to bolster the team because they believe their own hype and think they have a chance to make a run. I'm dying here laughing at those of you thinking they trade OG. Why in the world would they trade him while trying to make a championship run?! They aren't interested in JP's long term contract and impact with the future of the team, THEY ARE IN WIN NOW MODE. The only thing we get from this hypothetical deal is salary filler to keep them out of the luxury tax and draft picks. But this is ST, so even after I write this, enter 50 more post saying

"I'd only trade OG for him"

I would trade him for the draft picks easily, especially if we could get one in the future because their team isn't built to last. Then if we could flip Thad for another first we might be able to package the 3 future first (Bulls, Raptors, & Thad) to move up without losing one of our own. Primo looks good. Potentially a future all-star good (if you squint and put on your SA glasses)and being able to move up and get him a potential all-star running mate is worth almost anyone on the roster right now.

[CGD]

^ the point the OG crowd is making is thst TOR can’t just expect to get our starting center, whose is one of the leagues better values, for garbage including the 20th pick in a future draft. So spurs should make a steep demand or tell TOR to fuck off otherwise. That’s the argument.

[Chinook]

It's a bad argument though. I'm not sure Jakob would even start on Toronto. Poeltl's value is overstated by some stats. Rather than being a great value, I'd say he's relatively easy to 80/20

[John B]

They already have Siakam, Scotty Barnes, and no center on their roster. That’s why. Toronto is the interested party here, not us. If it’s not OG, you say goodbye, and hang up the phone.

Is Poeltl being offered? Why the sudden interest on Poeltl?

Again I’m not opposed to Poeltl being moved if he can fetch a 1RP or a package to get us closer to a tier 1 player, not necessarily named Simmon. Poeltl is in a cheap contract right now but would ultimately ask for an increase, and he is NOT what I see as Spurs’ starting C unplayable in close games and in the playoffs until he develops his FT.

[KingKev]

I’m okay with trading Jak for a future first and no long term money. Continue to build draft capital while me muddle through this rebuild. Jak can be replaced pretty easy with how much cap we will have going forward.

I’d be looking to do a similar move with White.

[baseline bum]

Why in the hell do you all want a first that'll probably end up in the low 20s for Poeltl? Spurs would have to get pretty lucky to replace his contribution with a pick in that range.

[exstatic]

Some of ya'll are completely missing the point. Toronto is on an 11-2 run. They are not planning to trade any key players, period. They want to get JP to bolster the team because they believe their own hype and think they have a chance to make a run. I'm dying here laughing at those of you thinking they trade OG. Why in the world would they trade him while trying to make a championship run?! They aren't interested in JP's long term contract and impact with the future of the team, THEY ARE IN WIN NOW MODE. The only thing we get from this hypothetical deal is salary filler to keep them out of the luxury tax and draft picks. But this is ST, so even after I write this, enter 50 more post saying

"I'd only trade OG for him"

I would trade him for the draft picks easily, especially if we could get one in the future because their team isn't built to last. Then if we could flip Thad for another first we might be able to package the 3 future first (Bulls, Raptors, & Thad) to move up without losing one of our own. Primo looks good. Potentially a future all-star good (if you squint and put on your SA glasses)and being able to move up and get him a potential all-star running mate is worth almost anyone on the roster right now.

YOU’RE missing the point. THEY need. WE have. That’s called a position of strength. They have 3 long PF/SFs, and no center. Spurs aren’t just going to Trade Jak unless they get something they want, and that’s not Birch, and it’s not Boucher.

It’s their turn over the barrel. We don’t have to do a deal, but they really do if they want to make a playoff run. They need a center. They’re familiar with Jak.

[sananspursfan21]

Maybe Matt Bonner and Eric Williams?

[KingKev]

Why in the hell do you all want a first that'll probably end up in the low 20s for Poeltl? Spurs would have to get pretty lucky to replace his contribution with a pick in that range.

We can replace Jak, likely with an upgrade in free agency in the coming years or will have to pay him 15mm or so when he becomes a free agent next off-season. If we looked to be in playoff contention the next few years I wouldn’t do it. In our current rebuilding state another FRP is worth more to me than Jak is.

[John B]

It’s funny how ST people think Poeltl is irreplaceable. Surely people have seen him getting dunk on time and again is embarrassing. I can name 3 better bigs than him, and they all played for the Cavs last night.

[spurspl]

YOU’RE missing the point. THEY need. WE have. That’s called a position of strength. They have 3 long PF/SFs, and no center. Spurs aren’t just going to Trade Jak unless they get something they want, and that’s not Birch, and it’s not Boucher.

It’s their turn over the barrel. We don’t have to do a deal, but they really do if they want to make a playoff run. They need a center. They’re familiar with Jak.

but we aint the only team that HAVE a center they NEED. Whats more we have 3 centers but no long PF/SF. So this position of strength doesn't exist in this scenerio.

[Chinook]

Why in the hell do you all want a first that'll probably end up in the low 20s for Poeltl? Spurs would have to get pretty lucky to replace his contribution with a pick in that range.

Have you seen Toronto's record? That's not going to be a pick anywhere lower than 22 or so. They're in the lottery right now. What the Spurs should get back from the Raptors depends on what ballast they have to take back. If it's Jakob and Forbes for Dragic, then a first even in the 20's could be good value. If it's Birch, then it's a bigger deal, because his contract is fully guaranteed for some reason. Getting a first and cap space to take back another contract next summer is valuable.

[KingKev]

I could see them offering Dragic and a heavily protected FRP for Jak

[BacktoBasics]

Have you seen Toronto's record? That's not going to be a pick anywhere lower than 22 or so. They're in the lottery right now. What the Spurs should get back from the Raptors depends on what ballast they have to take back. If it's Jakob and Forbes for Dragic, then a first even in the 20's could be good value. If it's Birch, then it's a bigger deal, because his contract is fully guaranteed for some reason. Getting a first and cap space to take back another contract next summer is valuable.

Another pick in the 16-22 range isn't going to change anything for us. Especially not in this upcoming draft.

We rarely have a team at full strength. We're probably one really good player and one glue player away from making the playoffs. Now I'm not opposed to moving Jak but if we get a solid draft pick all on our own I'd prefer to keep Jak because he's already a solid center who plays defense. We're not going to get anything near his level of play at 16-22. Probably not even at 10-16.

There just no value in moving our assets if all its going to return is a pick that's going to land us a less impactful player on a project timeline.

[baseline bum]

Have you seen Toronto's record? That's not going to be a pick anywhere lower than 22 or so. They're in the lottery right now. What the Spurs should get back from the Raptors depends on what ballast they have to take back. If it's Jakob and Forbes for Dragic, then a first even in the 20's could be good value. If it's Birch, then it's a bigger deal, because his contract is fully guaranteed for some reason. Getting a first and cap space to take back another contract next summer is valuable.

Sorry I saw them listed as picking #17 at nbadraft.net and didn't double check. Is their pick even their own though? Because SI.com has them picking #19 in their mock draft.

[Trueblood]

YOU’RE missing the point. THEY need. WE have. That’s called a position of strength. They have 3 long PF/SFs, and no center. Spurs aren’t just going to Trade Jak unless they get something they want, and that’s not Birch, and it’s not Boucher.

It’s their turn over the barrel. We don’t have to do a deal, but they really do if they want to make a playoff run. They need a center. They’re familiar with Jak.

If you believe that they're going to trade a key player to fill a need a center you're delusional. They would literally be trading one set of complications for another. Contenders (and whether they are or aren't a contender is neither here nor there, it's the fact that they believe they are that matters) don't trade one of their best players on a championship push in order to fill a position of weakness. They trade draft assets and young talent that hasn't cracked the rotation yet. Believe it or not Jak isn't the only center in the league. Is he their preferred option, if course. But if you legit believe they give up OG for him I just have no words for that level of wishful thought.

[KingKev]

Another pick in the 16-22 range isn't going to change anything for us. Especially not in this upcoming draft.

We rarely have a team at full strength. We're probably one really good player and one glue player away from making the playoffs. Now I'm not opposed to moving Jak but if we get a solid draft pick all on our own I'd prefer to keep Jak because he's already a solid center who plays defense. We're not going to get anything near his level of play at 16-22. Probably not even at 10-16.

There just no value in moving our assets if all its going to return is a pick that's going to land us a less impactful player on a project timeline.

I like what Jak brings to the table but when his contract is up he has earned a bigger pay day. I don’t see this about the pick itself, rather I’m confident we can use what is shaping up to be years of 20-30mm in free cap space to upgrade at the 5 and get a FRP for Jak in the short term.

We are nowhere near win now mode. This is a rebuild. Jak doesn’t fit the timeline for many reasons.

[BackHome]

This team is not one player from being a playoff team we are terrible and we really need to tank the remaining year and also the following year. The Spurs should be taking and making call to do trades for most of their players but only if we get something that is going to help us long term not short term.

[exstatic]

If you believe that they're going to trade a key player to fill a need a center you're delusional. They would literally be trading one set of complications for another. Contenders (and whether they are or aren't a contender is neither here nor there, it's the fact that they believe they are that matters) don't trade one of their best players on a championship push in order to fill a position of weakness. They trade draft assets and young talent that hasn't cracked the rotation yet. Believe it or not Jak isn't the only center in the league. Is he their preferred option, if course. But if you legit believe they give up OG for him I just have no words for that level of wishful thought.

They’re not on a championship push, and in fact currently hold the 14th and final puck in the lottery. I’m not saying they’re GOING to trade OG, I’m simply saying if they say no, you hang up. No trade. Pretty simple.

[exstatic]

I like what Jak brings to the table but when his contract is up he has earned a bigger pay day. I don’t see this about the pick itself, rather I’m confident we can use what is shaping up to be years of 20-30mm in free cap space to upgrade at the 5 and get a FRP for Jak in the short term.

We are nowhere near win now mode. This is a rebuild. Jak doesn’t fit the timeline for many reasons.

Jak was drafted at the same time as Dejounte. DJ is 25. Jak is 26. white is 27. He is literally right in the middle of our timeline.

[KingKev]

Jak was drafted at the same time as Dejounte. DJ is 25. Jak is 26. white is 27. He is literally right in the middle of our timeline.

He is replaceable and not a long term piece in my opinion, rather a win now guy on a great contract. It’s not just about age when it comes to timelines.

DJ is tough to replace.

White / Jak not so much.

[baseline bum]

If you believe that they're going to trade a key player to fill a need a center you're delusional. They would literally be trading one set of complications for another. Contenders (and whether they are or aren't a contender is neither here nor there, it's the fact that they believe they are that matters) don't trade one of their best players on a championship push in order to fill a position of weakness. They trade draft assets and young talent that hasn't cracked the rotation yet. Believe it or not Jak isn't the only center in the league. Is he their preferred option, if course. But if you legit believe they give up OG for him I just have no words for that level of wishful thought.

So just give him away then?

[CGD]

It's a bad argument though. I'm not sure Jakob would even start on Toronto. Poeltl's value is overstated by some stats. Rather than being a great value, I'd say he's relatively easy to 80/20

There are two things going on though and they’re getting confused here: Toronto’s interest in acquiring him and Spurs interest in moving him. Right now we only of the first. I suspect that if the spurs are willing to part with him, there would be multiple teams interested including the Warriors who view the Looney spot as their biggest vulnerability. So why entertain a meh TOR’s offer at this point as opposed to insist on something better?

As I said earlier, perhaps the best thing that can comes from this credible rumor is that is spurs other teams to inquire too.

[Trueblood]

They’re not on a championship push, and in fact currently hold the 14th and final puck in the lottery. I’m not saying they’re GOING to trade OG, I’m simply saying if they say no, you hang up. No trade. Pretty simple.

I don't disagree on principle, but they're on an 11-2 run and probably feel that they're a strong center away from getting a push to grab a higher seed and maybe get out of the play-in games. They won't trade OG as long as they have that delusion but if we could get a first out of it I think we should take it.

Jock is looking strong, Zollins is almost ready to come back, we may get Jalen Smith in a Young trade so we could have some intriguing bigs. Plus we aren't winning this year so we might as well add try and get assets, especially before JP starts looking for that big payday that we won't give him and he leaves for nothing.

[talkspurs]

If we could get boucher and a first I would do it without even thinking. I would try and get 2 first out of it but dont think they would go for it. Boucher is underrated. He is a little older but is a good 4. If we got smith (or another C) in the off season that would give us a young center and replace jock. Hoefully we a bad enough to get a young good 4 to replace boucher. that would give us a SL of murray, white/primo, KJ/Vassel boucher/frp, Smith/ other center. this would give us a solid team for next year and years to come.

[Ignazzz]

Be serious men. Forget OG. Please.

[baseline bum]

I don't disagree on principle, but they're on an 11-2 run and probably feel that they're a strong center away from getting a push to grab a higher seed and maybe get out of the play-in games. They won't trade OG as long as they have that delusion but if we could get a first out of it I think we should take it.

Jock is looking strong, Zollins is almost ready to come back, we may get Jalen Smith in a Young trade so we could have some intriguing bigs. Plus we aren't winning this year so we might as well add try and get assets, especially before JP starts looking for that big payday that we won't give him and he leaves for nothing.

Why would the Spurs not pay to keep him? You want to depend on broken down Zollins who has never shown anything since coming into the league in 2017?

[baseline bum]

Be serious men. Forget OG. Please.

Forget trading Poeltl for a pick and a bag of crap when it's not even likely to be a lottery pick if this trade plugs the biggest hole in their roster.

[Chinook]

Sorry I saw them listed as picking #17 at nbadraft.net and didn't double check. Is their pick even their own though? Because SI.com has them picking #19 in their mock draft.

Tankathon basically changes the draft order in real time. Mocks only come out periodically. The Raptors have lost their last two games, which dropped them down.

[KobesAchilles]

Imagine the field day Spurstalk would have if we did trade him. “We can’t win without him! I mean yeah we aren’t winning with him but we would be a bottom team in the league if we lose him!” Casually ignore we are picking 7th btw

Also Jak really helping that value with his recent play :lol

[Degoat]

I can’t handle this losing guys, I’m gonna break lol I wish the spurs would make their mark somehow if we’re gonna trade guys for picks do it, if we’re gonna try to get better then do it!!

[Chinook]

There are two things going on though and they’re getting confused here: Toronto’s interest in acquiring him and Spurs interest in moving him. Right now we only of the first. I suspect that if the spurs are willing to part with him, there would be multiple teams interested including the Warriors who view the Looney spot as their biggest vulnerability. So why entertain a meh TOR’s offer at this point as opposed to insist on something better?

As I said earlier, perhaps the best thing that can comes from this credible rumor is that is spurs other teams to inquire too.

We're not talking about whether the Spurs will trade Poeltl or not. Not really. We can't control that. We're talking about what kind of return makes sense. So who asked or doesn't really matter. Winning the deal doesn't matter. Is Poeltl worth more than a decent first-rounder? I don't know. At the beginning of the year, he obviously seemed like it. But he hasn't played like he's even a positive player, let alone worth a big return. His contract isn't that great. The NBA doesn't have a linear value system. There are obviously plenty of worse values out there, but guys like Gobert who make four times as much are worth it, and there are guys making the minimum who are serviceable. The only real benefit of Poeltl's contract on the trade market is the relative ease teams will have in matching his salary.

I do think other teams will be interested, but I don't believe there'd be anything like the bidding war some fans are assuming. But the Spurs can (and in my opinion should) completely reevaluate their roster and what their path toward competitiveness should be. In my opinion, it needs to involve aggressive trades, drafting a good player, signing a top free agent and then trading for the finishing piece. Clinging to low-ceiling guys just because they aren't awful won't get it done. Does that mean let guys go for nothing? No. It does mean not really thinking that keeping the players is a desirable outcome though. The Spurs should be looking to move on from Poeltl based on philosophy alone before even getting into the other stuff.

[Chinook]

Imagine the field day Spurstalk would have if we did trade him. “We can’t win without him! I mean yeah we aren’t winning with him but we would be a bottom team in the league if we lose him!” Casually ignore we are picking 7th btw

Also Jak really helping that value with his recent play :lol

I'm telling you. With the right stars aligning, he could be the starting center on a competing Spurs teams. But there are probably 50 centers in or about to enter the league who can say the same thing. You don't need to have a "great value" center to do it.

[Trueblood]

Why would the Spurs not pay to keep him? You want to depend on broken down Zollins who has never shown anything since coming into the league in 2017?

He is going to want a payday and the question is are we in a position to pay it? He's paying like a top center right now which means he will be looking for near max money. He fits alongside DJ right now but do you see him still being viable when primo and Vassel hit their primes? Wouldn't it make more sense to get an asset for him now and look to build around them with those assets and freed up money?

[Dejounte]

Poeltl wanting to get a payday is being way overstated. He hasn’t accomplished much in this league and for all the great things he does, he hasn’t kept it up for a full season. And probably the biggest factor of them all— the team isn’t winning for him to say he’s an important player during contract negotiations. Poeltl is going to paid what he’s worth, and it won’t be an overpay. Spurs will probably lowball him again and he will accept it.

[Dejounte]

Poeltl can be a fine starter on a competitive playoff team, but the fact that you have to offset his shortcomings with capable backup players in order to maximize your center rotation is why his future earnings as an NBA player is capped at a lower amount compared to other centers. I’m fine with keeping the dude so that the Spurs focus on the more important NBA positions on their roster. There’s literally no drawback to keeping him, in fact, I could see it as a “culture” thing by the Spurs to keep him. The only reason I could see him go is if they think this shit version of Poeltl from the last ten games is here to stay.

[John B]

I'm telling you. With the right stars aligning, he could be the starting center on a competing Spurs teams. But there are probably 50 centers in or about to enter the league who can say the same thing. You don't need to have a "great value" center to do it.

Agree. Spurs are not re-signing him north of 15mil a year. Sell high before his stock goes down.

[pad300]

Poeltl can be a fine starter on a competitive playoff team, but the fact that you have to offset his shortcomings with capable backup players in order to maximize your center rotation is why his future earnings as an NBA player is capped at a lower amount compared to other centers. I’m fine with keeping the dude so that the Spurs focus on the more important NBA positions on their roster. There’s literally no drawback to keeping him, in fact, I could see it as a “culture” thing by the Spurs to keep him. The only reason I could see him go is if they think this shit version of Poeltl from the last ten games is here to stay.

Not sold on that. He is obviously limited on the offensive front. His defense looks very good statistically. This is because he is in very good spot wrt the current style of the league. He is very good defending the current pick&roll 3 pt shooting offense that most teams in the league are trying to play. However, he is not very good at defending another big man; which is a problem as starter on a competitive team. There are enough good bigs out there, that teams that are seriously competing need to be able to defend them somewhat... and Jakob doesn't do that. Thus, I would trade him if someone came and offered a decent value for him; he's a regular season player, not a playoff guy (IMO of course).

[MultiTroll]

We're not talking about whether the Spurs will trade Poeltl or not. Not really. We can't control that. We're talking about what kind of return makes sense. So who asked or doesn't really matter. Winning the deal doesn't matter. Is Poeltl worth more than a decent first-rounder? I don't know. At the beginning of the year, he obviously seemed like it. But he hasn't played like he's even a positive player, let alone worth a big return. His contract isn't that great. The NBA doesn't have a linear value system. There are obviously plenty of worse values out there, but guys like Gobert who make four times as much are worth it, and there are guys making the minimum who are serviceable. The only real benefit of Poeltl's contract on the trade market is the relative ease teams will have in matching his salary.

I do think other teams will be interested, but I don't believe there'd be anything like the bidding war some fans are assuming. But the Spurs can (and in my opinion should) completely reevaluate their roster and what their path toward competitiveness should be. In my opinion, it needs to involve aggressive trades, drafting a good player, signing a top free agent and then trading for the finishing piece. Clinging to low-ceiling guys just because they aren't awful won't get it done. Does that mean let guys go for nothing? No. It does mean not really thinking that keeping the players is a desirable outcome though. The Spurs should be looking to move on from Poeltl based on philosophy alone before even getting into the other stuff.
This.
Poodle sniffers need to observe every game, not just the ones where Poodle is okay - good.
Houston anyone?

[poopbox]

Wait people think there raptors are actually going to trade for Poeltl :lmao

They are interested in trading for Poeltl the same way I was interested in the marvel eternals movie...if it had come to hbo max and i was able to watch it from my own sofa...cool, i will...but since it only came out in theaters...nah not worth the effort to actually get in a car and drive somewhere and risk covid...

If the raptors can get Poeltl for absolutely nothing then sure they are interested...like any other logical team that can get a player for nothing...

[KobesAchilles]

Wait people think there raptors are actually going to trade for Poeltl :lmao

They are interested in trading for Poeltl the same way I was interested in the marvel eternals movie...if it had come to hbo max and i was able to watch it from my own sofa...cool, i will...but since it only came out in theaters...nah not worth the effort to actually get in a car and drive somewhere and risk covid...

If the raptors can get Poeltl for absolutely nothing then sure they are interested...like any other logical team that can get a player for nothing...
I responded to a different thread about Poeltl and the Spurstalk love affair. Posters were positive Poeltl would net us a 1st rounder. And seriously if you go through the list, no team would offer us a 1st rounder for him. Toronto doesn’t want him back. If they do and they offer us a 1st then I will eat my words and the Spurs better take the deal. He’s useless to us right now.

I don’t even trust Stein tbh. Dude has been wrong more often than not. He’s the Tspence of espn now that Broussard left.

[exstatic]

I can’t handle this losing guys, I’m gonna break lol I wish the spurs would make their mark somehow if we’re gonna trade guys for picks do it, if we’re gonna try to get better then do it!!

Phoenix was in the wilderness for 10 years. 10 years. I don’t think it will be that long, but we’ve really only had two playins, and then this year. There are no more instant messiahs in the draft. Even if we draw into #1 in this years lottery,it will probably take a couple of years to right the ship. Fast is the worst way to try to do it, mainly because it doesn’t work, and then You’re back at square one. Buckle up. It’s going to be a ride.

[John B]

Phoenix was in the wilderness for 10 years. 10 years. I don’t think it will be that long, but we’ve really only had two playins, and then this year. There are no more instant messiahs in the draft. Even if we draw into #1 in this years lottery,it will probably take a couple of years to right the ship. Fast is the worst way to try to do it, mainly because it doesn’t work, and then You’re back at square one. Buckle up. It’s going to be a ride.

Buckle up? Do you feel the Spurs are finally making a big trade? Collecting assets to trade or build from the draft? I haven’t seen the Spurs making a big trade, not forced on them by that ingrate at least. Of course, Spurs haven’t been in this rebuilding position since Pre-DRob. And to some of the posters here, that’s a lifetime.

[baseline bum]

He is going to want a payday and the question is are we in a position to pay it? He's paying like a top center right now which means he will be looking for near max money. He fits alongside DJ right now but do you see him still being viable when primo and Vassel hit their primes? Wouldn't it make more sense to get an asset for him now and look to build around them with those assets and freed up money?

He's not playing like a max player and won't be getting a max contract in two years short of having an allstar season next year. Giving him away for a mediocre pick is retarded. Especially to save capspace so they can sign the next McDermott or Zollins. Even if the Spurs land the next LeBron in the draft they're not going to win shit without a supporting cast, look at LeBron's first seven years in Cleveland. Poeltl is better than what you'd expect to land with a mid first round pick and he's only 26 so even if he doesn't fit the timeline in three years he'll still likely be very tradeable for an asset that fits better. Anyone on this roster is tradeable but it doesn't just mean you give him away.

[John B]

He's not playing like a max player and won't be getting a max contract in two years short of having an allstar season next year. Giving him away for a mediocre pick is retarded. Especially to save capspace so they can sign the next McDermott or Zollins. Even if the Spurs land the next LeBron in the draft they're not going to win shit without a supporting cast, look at LeBron's first seven years in Cleveland. Poeltl is better than what you'd expect to land with a mid first round pick and he's only 26 so even if he doesn't fit the timeline in three years he'll still likely be very tradeable for an asset that fits better. Anyone on this roster is tradeable but it doesn't just mean you give him away.

Nah he’s not :lol Jarrett Allen was 22nd pick. I could name a handful who can protect the rim with better offensive game in late 1st round. Stop with the illusion that Poeltl will be better. He is who he is. He shows off when his behind is lit up then gets back to his normal self. If anybody’s inquiring, I’d take what I could and let them deal with the problem. Spurs are not re-signing him for the money he would want. Why wait for him to walk?

[TD 21]

Poeltl has went from underrated by most to overrated by some on here. Most low usage, rim running bigs rate well in catch all metrics. That doesn't make them high end starters.

He's a low end one and the notion that he'll command some exorbitant amount or they'll be in a bidding war is absurd. Holmes, R. Williams and Carter have all recently inked deals in the 4/$45-50M range, which is where he's trending.



He's not playing like a max player and won't be getting a max contract in two years short of having an allstar season next year. Giving him away for a mediocre pick is retarded. Especially to save capspace so they can sign the next McDermott or Zollins. Even if the Spurs land the next LeBron in the draft they're not going to win shit without a supporting cast, look at LeBron's first seven years in Cleveland. Poeltl is better than what you'd expect to land with a mid first round pick and he's only 26 so even if he doesn't fit the timeline in three years he'll still likely be very tradeable for an asset that fits better. Anyone on this roster is tradeable but it doesn't just mean you give him away.

This is the crux of their predicament. Poeltl and White are young, low ceiling veterans, on a franchise obsessed with continuity, "character" and trying to avoid bottoming out entirely.

Short of the scenario I described yesterday, it doesn't make sense to view them as long term pieces, but they also wouldn't get enough back to make it worthwhile (at least from their perspective) to cut bait. As ever, expect minimal movement going forward.

[Trueblood]

He's not playing like a max player and won't be getting a max contract in two years short of having an allstar season next year. Giving him away for a mediocre pick is retarded. Especially to save capspace so they can sign the next McDermott or Zollins. Even if the Spurs land the next LeBron in the draft they're not going to win shit without a supporting cast, look at LeBron's first seven years in Cleveland. Poeltl is better than what you'd expect to land with a mid first round pick and he's only 26 so even if he doesn't fit the timeline in three years he'll still likely be very tradeable for an asset that fits better. Anyone on this roster is tradeable but it doesn't just mean you give him away.

Well at least we agree not to let him go for nothing. There's some common ground. I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying per se. If we do draft someone truly great they will need a supporting cast. But here's the problem, we aren't bad enough to draft that next generational talent. We'll probably end up in the top 10 and DJ is talented enough to keep us there but we aren't bad enough to get a top 3 pick. So how do we move into the top of the draft? The only way is to have assets that other teams want. That obviously isn't our players so we need to collect draft capital to try and move up. If that means moving some players who raise our for than so be it. I would say a first and a prospect would be enough for us to move him. We could package our top 10, the Chicago pick and this pick to try and move up if we believe we've found the next great player. Small market teams have to develop through the draft, we aren't getting any free agents to write home about so the draft is our best bet.

[baseline bum]

Nah he’s not :lol Jarrett Allen was 22nd pick. I could name a handful who can protect the rim with better offensive game in late 1st round. Stop with the illusion that Poeltl will be better. He is who he is. He shows off when his behind is lit up then gets back to his normal self. If anybody’s inquiring, I’d take what I could and let them deal with the problem. Spurs are not re-signing him for the money he would want. Why wait for him to walk?

Busts and deep bench players are a lot more the norm outside of the lottery, lol cherry picking Jarrett Allen. Might as well have said Giannis to back up your point. Poeltl is a decent starting center, that shit doesn't grow on trees. Ask any Spurs fan pre 1983. I'm fine with trading him if they can get a good return but a pick that'll probably end up around 16-19 isn't it unless they see someone they really want still on the board and do the trade draft night.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Ujuri enjoyed fvcking us so much the first time he wants to do it again. :lol

[KingKev]

Wait people think there raptors are actually going to trade for Poeltl :lmao

They are interested in trading for Poeltl the same way I was interested in the marvel eternals movie...if it had come to hbo max and i was able to watch it from my own sofa...cool, i will...but since it only came out in theaters...nah not worth the effort to actually get in a car and drive somewhere and risk covid...

If the raptors can get Poeltl for absolutely nothing then sure they are interested...like any other logical team that can get a player for nothing...

Quite the analogy.

[RC_Drunkford]

He is going to want a payday and the question is are we in a position to pay it? He's paying like a top center right now which means he will be looking for near max money. He fits alongside DJ right now but do you see him still being viable when primo and Vassel hit their primes? Wouldn't it make more sense to get an asset for him now and look to build around them with those assets and freed up money?


:lmao Poeltl and max money should never be mentioned in the same sentence. Nobody would give him more than 15 per year

[Sugus]

Busts and deep bench players are a lot more the norm outside of the lottery, lol cherry picking Jarrett Allen. Might as well have said Giannis to back up your point. Poeltl is a decent starting center, that shit doesn't grow on trees. Ask any Spurs fan pre 1983. I'm fine with trading him if they can get a good return but a pick that'll probably end up around 16-19 isn't it unless they see someone they really want still on the board and do the trade draft night.

Nice to see some posters with a straight head on their neck. Also where's all this talk about Jakob wanting $15m/per or even Max level money coming from?? :lmao

Spurs would be wise to retain him under a 10-12m per year, longer contract. Gives Jakob financial security, and the Spurs security at the C spot, while not locking themselves into neither Jakob the player, nor Jakob the starter. Lol at the notion that Jakob's somehow gonna grow "too expensive to pay for"... While at the same time shitting all over him :lol. Spurstalk is hilarious sometimes

[Trueblood]

:lmao Poeltl and max money should never be mentioned in the same sentence. Nobody would give him more than 15 per year

Yeah, I need to walk that one back. He's not going to ever get the max, but someone is going to over pay him. We would offer 15 but you can bet someone will offer him more and he'll walk for nothing.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Poeltl is our third best player behind Murray and White. Despite his one great flaw - abysmal free throw shooting. Makes no sense to trade him to the Raptors unless they blow up the offer with an unprotected FRP plus a useful player - and OG Anunoby doesn't cut it for me. Too inconsistent and not someone to build with.

[Atl Spur]

Poodle plays way too soft, watch his body language. He’s intimidated by certain players

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Poodle plays way too soft, watch his body language. He’s intimidated by certain players

Imagine poeltl with the mentality of fuckin najera

[gambit1990]

Poodle plays way too soft, watch his body language. He’s intimidated by certain players
yeah, this is something that doesn't show up in the stat sheet.

[John B]

Imagine poeltl with the mentality of fuckin najera

Don’t even go that far. Watch Landale last night and how he box-out Zubac early. The man battles for every possession. Just night and day.

[Gagnrath]

I agree and i think this is the optimal time to act. My hope is that Zollins was signed with this in mind. Will they act though, quien sabe?

Not really he's legitimate enough on offense outside of free-throws that they get themselves into real foul trouble playing hack-a at the end of the first three quarters and you put in The Aussie to close the fourth.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Don’t even go that far. Watch Landale last night and how he box-out Zubac early. The man battles for every possession. Just night and day.

Zubac had 5 offensive rebounds and Clippers as a team had 21 :lol way to make a point

Cleveland, with 3 seven footers, had 12.

Poeltl has 17.8 DRB% ( and this is with everyone boxing out for Murray to get rebounds from free throw misses like a mini OKC Westbrook ). Landale's is 10.7.

[Chinook]

Zubac had 5 offensive rebounds and Clippers as a team had 21 :lol way to make a point

Cleveland, with 3 seven footers, had 12.

Poeltl has 17.8 DRB% ( and this is with everyone boxing out for Murray to get rebounds from free throw misses like a mini OKC Westbrook ). Landale's is 10.7.

Beeg, you're my homie, but I've gotta point of order you. Individual DRB% does not speak to how well players box out. That would be reflected in on/off DRB%. Poeltl's actually negative in that regard at -1.8 and SOB is positive at plus 3. As a total, the Spurs rebound almost the exact same whether Poeltl is on the floor or not but rebound way better during Jock's minutes than usual.

There are definitely factors that might explain some of the difference, but the math doesn't bear out Poeltl being the more effective guy at keeping opposing bigs off the offensive glass.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Beeg, you're my homie, but I've gotta point of order you. Individual DRB% does not speak to how well players box out. That would be reflected in on/off DRB%. Poeltl's actually negative in that regard at -1.8 and SOB is positive at plus 3. As a total, the Spurs rebound almost the exact same whether Poeltl is on the floor or not but rebound way better during Jock's minutes than usual.

There are definitely factors that might explain some of the difference, but the math doesn't bear out Poeltl being the more effective guy at keeping opposing bigs off the offensive glass.

Fair, my bad about DRB% Still, Landale's definitely not a very good defensive rebounder. Much better on the offensive end like Poeltl.

[MultiTroll]

Not really he's legitimate enough on offense outside of free-throws that they get themselves into real foul trouble playing hack-a at the end of the first three quarters and you put in The Aussie to close the fourth.
I'm sure Grandpas cognitive BBIQ powers will implement that starting soon.

[T Park]

We couldn't pry away og for kawhi. We aren't getting him for poodle


Leverage is a lost word with the whole Kawhi situation apparently.

[T Park]

It's a bad argument though. I'm not sure Jakob would even start on Toronto. Poeltl's value is overstated by some stats. Rather than being a great value, I'd say he's relatively easy to 80/20


Lmfao good god

[CGD]

Waiting for Jak to Warriors buzz.
Jak + DET SRP for Wiseman!

[KingKev]

Waiting for Jak to Warriors buzz.
Jak + DET SRP for Wiseman!

Wouldn’t even attach the SRP. Straight up take it or leave it.

[Excessive Egotist]

Waiting for Jak to Warriors buzz.
Jak + DET SRP for Wiseman!


Yes, Poeltl to Golden State is too obvious not to get rumored. I bet Spurs would ask for Wiseman + GS '22 first.

In the big picture, my preference is to see the front office trade all of its win-now vets (White, Poeltl, McDermott, Young, and Forbes) for the best value possible and essentially strip the team down to Murray, Vassell, and Primo, with Johnson, Walker, and Collins tbd. Tear down all at once (as in, this trade deadline + offseason). 2022 free agent class doesn't seem great for the Spurs, so I think the team should be open to taking on short term money (expiring in '23 is ideal) if it would allow them to acquire better draft assets.

In this scenario the Spurs front office optimizes the team's '22 and '23 lottery and prioritizes around Murray, Vassell, and Primo. What could get the team get for White, Poeltl, McDermott, Young, and Forbes?

White: two FRPs or or FRP plus a good young player. Some obvious trade targets here, such as Cleveland. Rubio + 2 FRPs? Atlanta could offer FRPs and/or Jalen Johnson. Chicago = Pat Williams + FRP. Boston?

Poeltl: single promising young player or FRPs (one if projected in teens or early 20s, two if projected 26-30); from Toronto Birch + Achiuwa + FRP (because extra salary)?

McDermott: late FRP or two SRPs projected in the 30s. McDermott would be a playoff rotation guy for every contender.

Young: FRP IF taking some modest salary back, two SRPs if taking expiring back. The Suns deal would have already happened, if it was going to happen. After Suns, the Bulls are probably his best fit, but that would require Young is traded elsewhere and waived. So I'm not really sure where he lands. I'm afraid he'll get bought out.

Forbes: late FRP or 2 meaningful SRPs or some young player who is a probable bust but the Spurs see some reason for hope

In aggregate, if the Spurs moved all of the team's win-now vets they could probably net 3-4 FRPs, a couple SRPs, and maybe an intriguing young player. The team would improve its lottery odds in '22 and '23, adding whomever they get in those drafts to a Murray, Primo, and Vassell core. Murray, Primo, and Vassell would start and get all the minutes they need to develop chemistry and improve. And the team would have cap space and lots of picks to package with Johnson or Walker should the right player hit the trade demand market.

The other option is to package McDermott + Young + draft compensation (including picks acquired for White/Poeltl/Forbes) + Johnson for a star. But that player doesn't appear on the market and would have to fit the age profile of Murray, Primo, and Vassell. This option is like waiting on a unicorn. Too improbable. I prefer the strategy that opportunistically resets around the young core.

[KingKev]

Yes, Poeltl to Golden State is too obvious not to get rumored. I bet Spurs would ask for Wiseman + GS '22 first.

In the big picture, my preference is to see the front office trade all of its win-now vets (White, Poeltl, McDermott, Young, and Forbes) for the best value possible and essentially strip the team down to Murray, Vassell, and Primo, with Johnson, Walker, and Collins tbd. Tear down all at once (as in, this trade deadline + offseason). 2022 free agent class doesn't seem great for the Spurs, so I think the team should be open to taking on short term money (expiring in '23 is ideal) if it would allow them to acquire better draft assets.

In this scenario the Spurs front office optimizes the team's '22 and '23 lottery and prioritizes around Murray, Vassell, and Primo. What could get the team get for White, Poeltl, McDermott, Young, and Forbes?

White: two FRPs or or FRP plus a good young player. Some obvious trade targets here, such as Cleveland. Rubio + 2 FRPs? Atlanta could offer FRPs and/or Jalen Johnson. Chicago = Pat Williams + FRP. Boston?

Poeltl: single promising young player or FRPs (one if projected in teens or early 20s, two if projected 26-30); from Toronto Birch + Achiuwa + FRP (because extra salary)?

McDermott: late FRP or two SRPs projected in the 30s. McDermott would be a playoff rotation guy for every contender.

Young: FRP IF taking some modest salary back, two SRPs if taking expiring back. The Suns deal would have already happened, if it was going to happen. After Suns, the Bulls are probably his best fit, but that would require Young is traded elsewhere and waived. So I'm not really sure where he lands. I'm afraid he'll get bought out.

Forbes: late FRP or 2 meaningful SRPs or some young player who is a probable bust but the Spurs see some reason for hope

In aggregate, if the Spurs moved all of the team's win-now vets they could probably net 3-4 FRPs, a couple SRPs, and maybe an intriguing young player. The team would improve its lottery odds in '22 and '23, adding whomever they get in those drafts to a Murray, Primo, and Vassell core. Murray, Primo, and Vassell would start and get all the minutes they need to develop chemistry and improve. And the team would have cap space and lots of picks to package with Johnson or Walker should the right player hit the trade demand market.

The other option is to package McDermott + Young + draft compensation (including picks acquired for White/Poeltl/Forbes) + Johnson for a star. But that player doesn't appear on the market and would have to fit the age profile of Murray, Primo, and Vassell. This option is like waiting on a unicorn. Too improbable. I prefer the strategy that opportunistically resets around the young core.

I like the strategy but you are over valuing all of these guys big time. White/Jak are not worth multiple picks. 1FRP or young player at most.

[Excessive Egotist]

I agree with you on Poeltl. 1 FRP or young player. I don't think Wiseman is very good. I think we agree on Poeltl's value and disagree on Wiseman.

On White, I can't see how his value would be less than 2 FRPs or 1 FRP and a young player.

You don't think McDermott or Young are worth 2 SRPs?

[KingKev]

I agree with you on Poeltl. 1 FRP or young player. I don't think Wiseman is very good. I think we agree on Poeltl's value and disagree on Wiseman.

On White, I can't see how his value would be less than 2 FRPs or 1 FRP and a young player.

You don't think McDermott or Young are worth 2 SRPs?

McD and Thad are but you have to take salary back. I’m confident no one is lining up to offer much for D White. A a late FRP and an average young player and will have to eat a bad contract I bet. I’d still do it to make room for Primo/Vassell

[Excessive Egotist]

Not directly related, but the Hawks front office has a lot of options. They have Collins, and they could package a FRP with both Okongwu and Johnson. For example, I could see them sending a FRP and Okongwu to Detroit for Jerami Grant or sending a FRP and Johnson to Spurs for Derrick White. Or some package like Collins and Okongwu to Spurs for White, Keldon Johnson, and Young or McDermott.

[CGD]

Wouldn’t even attach the SRP. Straight up take it or leave it.

Ideally, but I think they’re still very emotionally attached and haven’t reached sunk cost territory. The pick helps. My hope is the there is at least one more Suns game before the deadline where Ayton exposes their gap at the Looney minutes.

[talkspurs]

Not directly related, but the Hawks front office has a lot of options. They have Collins, and they could package a FRP with both Okongwu and Johnson. For example, I could see them sending a FRP and Okongwu to Detroit for Jerami Grant or sending a FRP and Johnson to Spurs for Derrick White. Or some package like Collins and Okongwu to Spurs for White, Keldon Johnson, and Young or McDermott.

If we could get okongwu without giving up much I would go for it. I dont know what they would need but would not be willing to give up any of our 1st for him. I also think they still value him so dont think it will be easy to get him.

[mo7888]

Not directly related, but the Hawks front office has a lot of options. They have Collins, and they could package a FRP with both Okongwu and Johnson. For example, I could see them sending a FRP and Okongwu to Detroit for Jerami Grant or sending a FRP and Johnson to Spurs for Derrick White. Or some package like Collins and Okongwu to Spurs for White, Keldon Johnson, and Young or McDermott.

While I'd definitely do the Collins trade with Atl it negates the whole premise you offered up. Collins and Okongwu coming here is a win now package and not a tear down. Personally, I'd rather see that kind of move than a complete teardown.

[John B]

Not directly related, but the Hawks front office has a lot of options. They have Collins, and they could package a FRP with both Okongwu and Johnson. For example, I could see them sending a FRP and Okongwu to Detroit for Jerami Grant or sending a FRP and Johnson to Spurs for Derrick White. Or some package like Collins and Okongwu to Spurs for White, Keldon Johnson, and Young or McDermott.

Add Forbes for Tre and call it a deal

[tbdog]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-myles-turner-caris-levert-eric-gordon-bryn-forbes/

[RC_Drunkford]

Honestly the Spurs should make a move to add a long term piece. They got 40 Million in cap space next season, in a free agency class that‘s pure garbage

[tbdog]

Poeltl for Wiseman makes so much sense. But spurs would want a pick. And they deserve it. Poeltl on warriors are very win now. Wiseman could be a better player in the future. Which is why i would welcome it. Who's my starting center in 3 years time when spurs are hopefully in the playoffs again? I think Wiseman is that future center.

[KingKev]

Honestly the Spurs should make a move to add a long term piece. They got 40 Million in cap space next season, in a free agency class that‘s pure garbage

Our FRPs the next 2-3yrs are too valuable to be doing that. We need to get better at renting cap space however. Going into another weak free agency period with 30mm in cap space is a risk with this front office. Can see us having another offseason of bad moves where we overpay a couple of vets like we did McLovin.

Nearly 1/2 our cap space (~55mm) this year was spent on Thad, Aminu, Carrol, Luka, McLovin, Forbes and Zollins. When you consider that, a contract like Tobias Harris’ looks like good value.

[Mr. Body]

Poeltl for Wiseman makes so much sense. But spurs would want a pick. And they deserve it. Poeltl on warriors are very win now. Wiseman could be a better player in the future. Which is why i would welcome it. Who's my starting center in 3 years time when spurs are hopefully in the playoffs again? I think Wiseman is that future center.

Why would you trade one of the best defensive centers in the league for a guy who has a middle school understanding of basketball and is going to wind up way more expensive?

[RC_Drunkford]

Our FRPs the next 2-3yrs are too valuable to be doing that. We need to get better at renting cap space however. Going into another weak free agency period with 30mm in cap space is a risk with this front office. Can see us having another offseason of bad moves where we overpay a couple of vets like we did McLovin.

Nearly 1/2 our cap space (~55mm) this year was spent on Thad, Aminu, Carrol, Luka, McLovin, Forbes and Zollins. When you consider that, a contract like Tobias Harris’ looks like good value.

I never said the Spurs should trade their picks. But they should look to add a starting caliber PF, exactly for the reason you mentioned in your last sentence. They got 3 2nd rounders and the Chicago pick to play with. And they might still get some more minor assets by moving Young and Forbes. I'm fine with renting out cap space too.

[KingKev]

I never said the Spurs should trade their picks. But they should look to add a starting caliber PF, exactly for the reason you mentioned in your last sentence. They got 3 2nd rounders and the Chicago pick to play with. And they might still get some more minor assets by moving Young and Forbes. I'm fine with renting out cap space too.

It’s hard to get in the conversation for trading for max type players without giving up multiple FRPs and the chance of a max player wanting to sign here is low. I’m all for throwing max money at Lavine, Beal, Harden etc but it won’t happen.

[RC_Drunkford]

It’s hard to get in the conversation for trading for max type players without giving up multiple FRPs and the chance of a max player wanting to sign here is low. I’m all for throwing max money at Lavine, Beal, Harden etc but it won’t happen.

I didn't say they should add a max player either. I don't know what you are reading. A Jeramie Grant caliber player would do wonders for this team

[tbdog]

Why would you trade one of the best defensive centers in the league for a guy who has a middle school understanding of basketball and is going to wind up way more expensive?

I think Wiseman skill set has a much higher ceiling. I also think Wiseman would do well in a pick n roll heavy offense rather than the heavy motion offense that warriors employ. It's a slight risk, sure, hence why the spurs deserve a 1st or another youth.

[Mr. Body]

I think Wiseman skill set has a much higher ceiling. I also think Wiseman would do well in a pick n roll heavy offense rather than the heavy motion offense that warriors employ. It's a slight risk, sure, hence why the spurs deserve a 1st or another youth.

Massive risk. I don't get why you're hellbent on trading a very productive good defensive center on a pretty cheap contract for this guy. Are people just bored or something?

[KingKev]

I didn't say they should add a max player either. I don't know what you are reading. A Jeramie Grant caliber player would do wonders for this team

My mad, jumped to conclusions. I agree with targeting mid tier players like Grant in the short to medium term.

[MannyIsGod]

Massive risk. I don't get why you're hellbent on trading a very productive good defensive center on a pretty cheap contract for this guy. Are people just bored or something?

I mean dude, do you not see our record and the team we send out there? I think Jakob is a good player, and I defend him on this board regularly. I think he's underrated by a lot of the posters on here, but this team is going to have to make high upside trades with some of these players unless we are happy with where the team is. They have players that hold value to other teams that the Spurs should capitalize on in order to improve their situation. If they trade away Poeltl its not high risk at all. What are you at risk of losing? Yeah, you will likely downgrade at the center position, but in terms of win/loss changes its not a noticeable change.

The question people should be asking is keeping a player making the Spurs substantially more likely to make the playoffs in the next 2 years than trading them away. With Poeltl there is absolutely no way the answer here is to keep him. This doesn't mean the Spurs should just give him away to just do something, but he's an upcoming free agent that while fills a good role for a good team, on this team he doesn't really move the needle all that much.

The recent Spurs run of bad play has really pushed them into a position where they should absolutely be sellers at the Trade deadline. Poeltl is probalby their most valuable trade asset, is underpaid, and is only under contract for another year after this one. Its pretty hard to justify him being a long term solution for the Spurs, imo.

People are used to the Spurs not doing much at the deadline but I think this year they are primed to trade away multiple players. I think Jakob, Brynn, and Thad all have decent chances of ending up on another team at the deadline.

[tbdog]

Massive risk. I don't get why you're hellbent on trading a very productive good defensive center on a pretty cheap contract for this guy. Are people just bored or something?

Don't know how Wiseman is a massive risk. He is on a rookie contract. Second year. Never had a training camp due to covid and injuries. I am not sure how much better Poeltl will get. When he slowly loses some speed, his defense will slowly go with it. I'm not sure he can increase his offensive production and liability enough to make up for it. To me, Wiseman is the center i want to invest in for 3 seasons time. But again, I want something more than just Wiseman for Poeltl.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Don't know how Wiseman is a massive risk. He is on a rookie contract. Second year. Never had a training camp due to covid and injuries. I am not sure how much better Poeltl will get. When he slowly loses some speed, his defense will slowly go with it. I'm not sure he can increase his offensive production and liability enough to make up for it. To me, Wiseman is the center i want to invest in for 3 seasons time. But again, I want something more than just Wiseman for Poeltl.

Yeah, I was bummed we didn't get Wiseman on draft night. He appears to have lots of raw talent, but he's going to need some work before he's a regular rotation player. He's got lots of upside if that potential could be realized. It would definitely have to be sweetened quite a bit beyond a Wiseman for Poetl swap for it to make sense for San Antonio.

[John B]

Yeah, I was bummed we didn't get Wiseman on draft night. He appears to have lots of raw talent, but he's going to need some work before he's a regular rotation player. He's got lots of upside if that potential could be realized. It would definitely have to be sweetened quite a bit beyond a Wiseman for Poetl swap for it to make sense for San Antonio.

Nah I’d take it straight up. I know Poeltl played great last night, but I think Wiseman has a higher ceiling. It’s a win-now for Dubs who Poeltl can definitely help given in the right environment and talent around him. But two years from now, Wiseman will bury him. Already Poeltl couldn’t cover the likes of Wiseman with a passing PG. That’s the only thing, DJM is not really a true PG and it would be Derrick or Trey to create for Wiseman.

[KingKev]

I wonder how opportunistic the Spurs will be with Jak. I’m not giving him away for cents on the dollar but Jak is a win now player who is only going to cost more on his next deal. We are nowhere near win now mode and could easily replace him in free agency or potentially internally, atleast in a capacity that sufficiently meets the needs of the rebuild. This year was all about analyzing talent, giving guys their opportunity and seeing what we have. We now have a great idea of exactly the player Jak is. This offseason is probably a good time to decide where he stacks up in our future.

Jak for Wisemen makes sense for both parties.

[John B]

I wonder how opportunistic the Spurs will be with Jak. I’m not giving him away for cents on the dollar but Jak is a win now player who is only going to cost more on his next deal. We are nowhere near win now mode and could easily replace him in free agency or potentially internally, atleast in a capacity that sufficiently meets the needs of the rebuild. This year was all about analyzing talent, giving guys their opportunity and seeing what we have. We now have a great idea of exactly the player Jak is. This offseason is probably a good time to decide where he stacks up in our future.

Jak for Wisemen makes sense for both parties.

The Covid situation really forced Pop to play his young players more than he would normally do, which is the silver lining if anything. The next big step is to weed-out the players who are not necessarily helping as a rebuild team, and getting good assets in return. Forbes, Poeltl, Lonnie, Eubanks and even Derrick could be on the move for the right trade. I’ve never known the Spurs as a big player in trade market, but I haven’t seen the Spurs as a rebuilding team since Pre-DRob, and that’s older than any of Spurs players

[KingKev]

The Covid situation really forced Pop to play his young players more than he would normally do, which is the silver lining if anything. The next big step is to weed-out the players who are not necessarily helping as a rebuild team, and getting good assets in return. Forbes, Poeltl, Lonnie, Eubanks and even Derrick could be on the move for the right trade. I’ve never known the Spurs as a big player in trade market, but I haven’t seen the Spurs as a rebuilding team since Pre-DRob, and that’s older than any of Spurs players

I absolutely think D White should be opportunistically shopped. White is a solid 2-way player on a fair contract but I think we can confidently conclude he probably isn’t going to break through to that next tier of player; he has had many opportunities this season to take over and failed todo so. He is a perfect win now role player however. DJ solidified himself as a major building block for your long term plan. Primo/Vassell could take up the slack if White was moved.

[MultiTroll]

Jak for Wisemen makes sense for both parties.
Where is Wiseman now?
GLeauge he is not on roster.
Warriors shows zero minutes.

Is he at end of Warrior bench still rehabbing while not playing?

Yes perfect to find a team that thinks it can win now thus will give up a meaningful piece.

[KingKev]

Where is Wiseman now?
GLeauge he is not on roster.
Warriors shows zero minutes.

Is he at end of Warrior bench still rehabbing while not playing?



Yes perfect to find a team that thinks it can win now thus will give up a meaningful piece.

He’ll be cleared for play soon, likely getting reps in Santa Cruz first. Warriors hoping to have him back as their starting 5 for the playoffs I read. Jak could be a value add starting 5 this week.

[Chinook]

Massive risk. I don't get why you're hellbent on trading a very productive good defensive center on a pretty cheap contract for this guy. Are people just bored or something?

It can't be a massive risk. Losing Poeltl for nothing is the absolute downside of that trade, and that wouldn't really hurt the Spurs. There will be centers the Spurs can take for free in trades or sign as free agents who will have a similar impact. Maybe it costs more money, but the Spurs will also have an extra pick (if not more) to work with. They can afford to take a step back at the deepest position on the team/in the league in order to put themselves in a better position to get a difference-maker.

Again, the idea that the Spurs should only trade away bad players and should keep all the good ones can only exist within an underdeveloped view of team-building. There are reasons not to trade Poeltl (chemistry being the largest), but him being on a good contract for a team with tons of cap space and him being good enough to have trade value don't belong on that side of the leger.

[MultiTroll]

Warriors hoping to have him back as their starting 5 for the playoffs I read.
Then no way Warriors will go Wiseman for Jak.
What are you thinking they would offer?

[Gagnrath]

Don't know how Wiseman is a massive risk. He is on a rookie contract. Second year. Never had a training camp due to covid and injuries. I am not sure how much better Poeltl will get. When he slowly loses some speed, his defense will slowly go with it. I'm not sure he can increase his offensive production and liability enough to make up for it. To me, Wiseman is the center i want to invest in for 3 seasons time. But again, I want something more than just Wiseman for Poeltl.

What I don't understand is why people are wanting to undersell so much. I am willing to deal Jakob Poetle but he is a fairly young upper tier starting caliber starter on a team friendly contract, you don't give that up for a mid 20s first round pick. Now I would take a late first round pick, a PF prospect and a 2023 2nd rounder. I would take a probable lottery pick is someone was offering and a maybe risky prospect at some random position. But if you aren't getting equal or greater value you don't trade strong pieces of your rotation on good contracts.

[tbdog]

What I don't understand is why people are wanting to undersell so much. I am willing to deal Jakob Poetle but he is a fairly young upper tier starting caliber starter on a team friendly contract, you don't give that up for a mid 20s first round pick. Now I would take a late first round pick, a PF prospect and a 2023 2nd rounder. I would take a probable lottery pick is someone was offering and a maybe risky prospect at some random position. But if you aren't getting equal or greater value you don't trade strong pieces of your rotation on good contracts.

I don't see it as an undersell.

[scott]

Even if Wiseman had a 50% bust probability, you make a deal if you can get him for Jak straight up. I like Jak, but this franchise has to take some swings.

[Mr. Body]

I mean dude, do you not see our record and the team we send out there? I think Jakob is a good player, and I defend him on this board regularly. I think he's underrated by a lot of the posters on here, but this team is going to have to make high upside trades with some of these players unless we are happy with where the team is. They have players that hold value to other teams that the Spurs should capitalize on in order to improve their situation. If they trade away Poeltl its not high risk at all. What are you at risk of losing? Yeah, you will likely downgrade at the center position, but in terms of win/loss changes its not a noticeable change.

The question people should be asking is keeping a player making the Spurs substantially more likely to make the playoffs in the next 2 years than trading them away. With Poeltl there is absolutely no way the answer here is to keep him. This doesn't mean the Spurs should just give him away to just do something, but he's an upcoming free agent that while fills a good role for a good team, on this team he doesn't really move the needle all that much.

The recent Spurs run of bad play has really pushed them into a position where they should absolutely be sellers at the Trade deadline. Poeltl is probalby their most valuable trade asset, is underpaid, and is only under contract for another year after this one. Its pretty hard to justify him being a long term solution for the Spurs, imo.

People are used to the Spurs not doing much at the deadline but I think this year they are primed to trade away multiple players. I think Jakob, Brynn, and Thad all have decent chances of ending up on another team at the deadline.

No, dude. Trading a good defensive center for a crap player like Wiseman or a first round pick who maaaaaybe might turn out to be as good as Jakob Poeltl is completely stupid. Wiseman may one day be as good as Poeltl, but he's already on a very expensive salary track.

Trading Poeltl just because is stupid message board bullshit.

[objective]

Would feel better about trading Poeltl in general if they had decent replacement on the horizon, but they trade away Milutinov's rights. Landale is okay but not up to the defense and Eubanks is Eubanks.

I don't think Wiseman after all his injuries and lack of court time is good enough to be worth Poeltl straight up. And I was all about him in that draft because of the potential, but he's way way behind and too fragile.

Poeltl would be so awesome with GS with the bonus that he never has to play crunch time and be a free throw liability because Draymond is the closing center.

Maybe something like Poeltl and Lonnie for Wiseman, Moody and their late 1st, which will be 25-30

[tim_duncan_fan]

Maybe something like Poeltl and Lonnie for Wiseman, Moody and their late 1st, which will be 25-30

I'd be good with this. I do have those doubts about Wiseman but also, I am with the people saying Poeltl doesn't fit our timeline, as in he is going to want more money just for us to be the same kind of team we are now for the next 2-3 years at least..

Suffice it to say, I'm not super-attached to Jak if an offer that is interesting in a good way comes along.


At this point, looking at potential, if it's not DM, Keldon, Devin, Jock, or Primo they can probably go however they go, as long as we get something with really good potential for Jak and Derrick if they go.

[Mr. Body]

This thread is as dumb as the "trade everything for Ben Simmosn" thread.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Those who think that Poeltl doesn't match the Spurs' timeline and doesn't complement the teams' core are morons who haven't watched a single Spurs game since the Big 3 retired. Poeltl has an infuriatingly poor free throw %. Other than that he has been a net positive for the Spurs in every aspect - rebounding, scoring, passing, screen-setting, rim defense, defending in space, playing within the flow of the offense. You name it and he has done that to the betterment of the Spurs team and that is why he is net positive by a margin on both defense and offense for the Spurs according to several advanced Stats. And his salary is barely mid-level. Poeltl is probably one of the best bargain players in the league. The same could be said of Dejounte and Derrick as well. The Spurs would be fools to give up on one of these three. And they should hold on to Vassell, Johnson and Primo as well.

They did the right thing by letting go of Forbes. Now they should find a partner to buy Young for a pick or a prospect. And the maddeningly inconsistent Lonnie Walker can be let go too.

[gambit1990]

trade him.

[gambit1990]

you will never be able to teach poeltl's soft-ness out of him.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rasho-nesterovic-of-the-san-antonio-spurs-gets-ready-to-enter-the-picture-id57521092?s=612x612

[gambit1990]

the difference is rasho had td.

[RC_Drunkford]

I wouldn‘t trade Poeltl for Wiseman. I‘d move him if we can somehow get Myles Turner or a starting PF like Grant. Otherwise keep him. That DJ/Poeltl pick & roll is deadly and I doubt that just about anybody can replace him.

[exstatic]

I wouldn‘t trade Poeltl for Wiseman. I‘d move him if we can somehow get Myles Turner or a starting PF like Grant. Otherwise keep him. That DJ/Poeltl pick & roll is deadly and I doubt that just about anybody can replace him.

Landale can roll just as well as Poeltl, and hit the FTs if he’s fouled.

[poopbox]

I wouldn‘t trade Poeltl for Wiseman. I‘d move him if we can somehow get Myles Turner or a starting PF like Grant. Otherwise keep him. That DJ/Poeltl pick & roll is deadly and I doubt that just about anybody can replace him.

Not trading Poeltl for by all accounts the exact player the spurs were targeting in the draft? :lol

[Chinook]

Landale can roll just as well as Poeltl, and hit the FTs if he’s fouled.

Not only that, but neither Poeltl nor Murray are particularly good PnR players. Having highlights here and there isn't the same thing as being elite. Both are right around league average in terms of their respective effectiveness. Landale is a MUCH better roll-man, and White and Walker are both significantly better scorers as the handlers. Is there a missing gap from how effective other players are off the motion, like spot-up shooters? Yes. But this is just another example of many STers not understanding how pedestrian Poeltl actually is. Unless they think the Spurs have a chance to compete for a playoff spot next season, there's zero reason to care about his contract. That he's a "bargain" is one of the least significant things, and too many folks here think it's some ironclad reason to keep him.

At best, it's as dumb as not selling your plot of land that has oil under it because,:

"Well do you know how money a company can make from pumping out this oil? It's too valuable to sell."
"Do you have the ability to pump that oil and process it?"
"No..."
"..."
"But think how much money a company can make from pumping out this oil. We can't sell it. It's too valuable."

Except oil land will remain valuable until it's pumped out, and Poeltl's contract only lends him value for another season-and-a-half before completely disappearing. And this is of course ignoring the question of how much of a bargain Jakob actually is anyway.

[NASpurs]

you will never be able to teach poeltl's soft-ness out of him.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rasho-nesterovic-of-the-san-antonio-spurs-gets-ready-to-enter-the-picture-id57521092?s=612x612

:lol I had completely forgotten that Rasho existed.

Talk about soft.

Only reason I could tolerate him was because he used to piss Stephen A Smith off.

[Dverde]

I wouldn‘t trade Poeltl for Wiseman. I‘d move him if we can somehow get Myles Turner or a starting PF like Grant. Otherwise keep him. That DJ/Poeltl pick & roll is deadly and I doubt that just about anybody can replace him.

That is so dumb. Gladly take Wiseman for Poodle. I’ll even throw in Bonnie Walker IV with him.

[CGD]

That is so dumb. Gladly take Wiseman for Poodle. I’ll even throw in Bonnie Walker IV with him.

In all seriousness, I do think we’d have to add more in a hypothetical Jakob-Wiseman swap.

[exstatic]

In all seriousness, I do think we’d have to add more in a hypothetical Jakob-Wiseman swap.

Why? What has Wiseman done to warrant add ons?

[Seventyniner]

Why? What has Wiseman done to warrant add ons?

It's all about perception imo. The optics of trading away the #2 pick so soon after the draft for a player who probably isn't perceived to be any better (even though he is) are something many teams would avoid.

I don't know the Warriors' mindset here, of course. Didn't the Kings ask a ton for Bagley because he was the #2 pick?

[Ocotillo]

It's all about perception imo. The optics of trading away the #2 pick so soon after the draft for a player who probably isn't perceived to be any better (even though he is) are something many teams would avoid.

I don't know the Warriors' mindset here, of course. Didn't the Kings ask a ton for Bagley because he was the #2 pick?

Could be the case. On the other hand, Poetl would be a great fit for them and is up and running now, no need to wait for development and they have only so many more Seth/Klay/Draymond years left.

[baseline bum]

Even if Wiseman had a 50% bust probability, you make a deal if you can get him for Jak straight up. I like Jak, but this franchise has to take some swings.

Agreed, I'd trade him for Wiseman in a second. But not for a first round pick in the 18+ range like so many others seem to want unless it's draft day and the Spurs have someone they love who has slipped that low (eg like when they kept trying to trade up to get Parker in 2001).

[exstatic]

It's all about perception imo. The optics of trading away the #2 pick so soon after the draft for a player who probably isn't perceived to be any better (even though he is) are something many teams would avoid.

I don't know the Warriors' mindset here, of course. Didn't the Kings ask a ton for Bagley because he was the #2 pick?

Look at the GS organization. Now, look at the Kings. They constantly overplay their hand,and are stuck on a treadmill of awfulness. They should have taken whatever offers they had for Bagley, because he’s just not very good. He put up decent numbers as a rookie, didn’t improve them the next two seasons, and has taken a clear step back this year.

As an aside, that was an awful draft class. A full FIVE PLAYERS are not on an NBA roster, and chandler Hutchison was ineligible for an extension since he was waived, and signed by another team after clearing waivers. Picks 1 and 2 didn’t receive an extension.

[Mr. Body]

1. John Collins
2. Lauri Markkanen
3. Ben Simmons
4. Wiseman

I swear the kiddies on this board just swarm after the next shiny expensive bauble like a bunch of six year olds on a soccer pitch. Hell, I remember when people were obsessed with Corey Maggette. Honestly, it's kind of sweet how y'all rumble off with your little legs pumping over the grass rushing after the latest dreamboat player. Lawls.

[CGD]

Why? What has Wiseman done to warrant add ons?

As noted by others, its about GSW's perception of him, staffing investments theyve made in him, idea of him/Kuminga/Moody being the next group up, etc. Rationally its a clearer call, but i still think they're a season away from accepting the sunk cost.

I wouldnt do a legit 1st, of course, but maybe something like the DET pick or one of those "fake FRPs" that turn into two seconds if they dont convey after a few cycles.

[Seventyniner]

Look at the GS organization. Now, look at the Kings. They constantly overplay their hand,and are stuck on a treadmill of awfulness. They should have taken whatever offers they had for Bagley, because he’s just not very good. He put up decent numbers as a rookie, didn’t improve them the next two seasons, and has taken a clear step back this year.

As an aside, that was an awful draft class. A full FIVE PLAYERS are not on an NBA roster, and chandler Hutchison was ineligible for an extension since he was waived, and signed by another team after clearing waivers. Picks 1 and 2 didn’t receive an extension.

Points taken. I just know that a lot of people, and evidently some front offices (like the Kings), get caught up in a player's draft slot even after the draft. The Warriors should be smart enough to not fall for that, but even good FOs make dumb decisions sometimes. It's a variant of the sunk cost fallacy.

[CGD]

Look at the GS organization. Now, look at the Kings. They constantly overplay their hand,and are stuck on a treadmill of awfulness. They should have taken whatever offers they had for Bagley, because he’s just not very good. He put up decent numbers as a rookie, didn’t improve them the next two seasons, and has taken a clear step back this year.

As an aside, that was an awful draft class. A full FIVE PLAYERS are not on an NBA roster, and chandler Hutchison was ineligible for an extension since he was waived, and signed by another team after clearing waivers. Picks 1 and 2 didn’t receive an extension.

I disagree, 2018 was an SOLID draft class with good combo of stars and solid role players: Ayton, Doncic, JJJ, Trae Young, Shai, both Bridges, Sexton, Porter Jr., Huerter, Brunson.

While cheapo Sarver didnt extend Ayton, of course he's going to get his max THIS summer.

SAC really screwed up.

[MannyIsGod]

1. John Collins
2. Lauri Markkanen
3. Ben Simmons
4. Wiseman

I swear the kiddies on this board just swarm after the next shiny expensive bauble like a bunch of six year olds on a soccer pitch. Hell, I remember when people were obsessed with Corey Maggette. Honestly, it's kind of sweet how y'all rumble off with your little legs pumping over the grass rushing after the latest dreamboat player. Lawls.

You're sitting here defending not taking any chances with a team that is currently going to struggle to hit 30 wins. I'm not even sure why you have John Collins and Simmons on that list. I'd trade Jak for either of those 2 straight up in a heartbeat. Wiseman isn't in the same category, but still a worthwhile gamble.

I think Jak is a good player, but what the fuck is the difference of finishing with 27 wins vs 31? Thats about what Jak gets you over a replacement level center and you're acting like he's some untradeable piece that people are insane to be looking to trade. Its such a stupid mindset.

[Chinook]

1. John Collins
2. Lauri Markkanen
3. Ben Simmons
4. Wiseman

I swear the kiddies on this board just swarm after the next shiny expensive bauble like a bunch of six year olds on a soccer pitch. Hell, I remember when people were obsessed with Corey Maggette. Honestly, it's kind of sweet how y'all rumble off with your little legs pumping over the grass rushing after the latest dreamboat player. Lawls.

The Spurs should have absolutely offered Collins a max contract. Considering that everyone else was going to be part of a trade, the one guy who was free makes obvious sense. If the Spurs end up buying out Thad, they will be at more than $33 Million in dead salary. If they also waive Hernangomez, they'll be over $40 Million. And for that, they'd have 1 first and four seconds to show for it. Using about half that to go from Zach Collins to John Collins or using even less and not having the McDermott trade means most of those picks could have still been part of the team's trove. So many people are hand-wringing over Murray not having help, and they had a chance to get some while keeping all of their picks and young players.

Mark sucks, and only people who are stuck in the past and think of him as a combo-forward even pretended to want him.

Simmons is Simmons. He's his own thread and not worth tanking another one talking about.

Wiseman is hardly a new shiny bauble considering he was the most rumored target for the Spurs to get in a LMA trade. Do I think going from the Spurs having no chance at drafting him even if they liquidated their picks and young players to people credibly arguing he's not worth taking for free is a sign of how far he's fallen? Yes. The skepticism isn't unwarranted. But I'd much rather trade a guy like Poeltl for him than use a lotto pick on a dude like Poke, and so many people loved that idea. The Spurs should absolutely be looking to rehab the value of guys like Wiseman. They don't have to commit to using their picks on them, but they can afford to take steps back in their play in order to see if something's there. That's if they ever liked him during the draft. If he wasn't one of their BPA, then they should let him go.

In general, a team lacking talent at a crossroads with their roster is going to be constantly faced with decisions on how aggressively they should look to change their situation. You'll have to get used to this type of discussion, because the Spurs aren't likely to be a contender any time soon.

[Dejounte]

IMO, it takes a Paolo Banchero type pick and a Zach Lavine signing to put the Spurs back in contention. Not even saying that’s likely to happen, but two big moves for talent such as those are as easy as it gets. They just have to get lucky. And to be honest, I’m high on a couple other prospects that could send the Spurs far on the right path.

[KingKev]

IMO, it takes a Paolo Banchero type pick and a Zach Lavine signing to put the Spurs back in contention. Not even saying that’s likely to happen, but two big moves for talent such as those are as easy as it gets. They just have to get lucky. And to be honest, I’m high on a couple other prospects that could send the Spurs far on the right path.

Agreed.

Banchero/Smith fill an immediate need if we are lucky in the lottery and we can have 30-50mm in cap the next few off seasons to try and hit on a max FA if we play our cards right. In the meantime keep developing young players, no long term deals or loyalty contracts that can’t easily be moved and rent your cap space out for draft capital where appropriate.

Something most won’t agree with is to opportunistically sell our developed talent along the way. White and Jak shiuld be flipped for future assets if the chance arises. They aren’t long term building blocks anymore, they are win now role players who can be replaced internally or in free agency.

[Dejounte]

Agreed.

Banchero/Smith fill an immediate need if we are lucky in the lottery and we can have 30-50mm in cap the next few off seasons to try and hit on a max FA if we play our cards right. In the meantime keep developing young players, no long term deals or loyalty contracts that can’t easily be moved and rent your cap space out for draft capital where appropriate.

Something most won’t agree with is to opportunistically sell our developed talent along the way. White and Jak shiuld be flipped for future assets if the chance arises. They aren’t long term building blocks anymore, they are win now role players who can be replaced internally or in free agency.

Tbh White and Jak would be perfect behind a big 3 of Banchero, Lavine, and Murray. Those two would be the top two role players in the NBA playing behind talent like that.

[KingKev]

Tbh White and Jak would be perfect behind a big 3 of Banchero, Lavine, and Murray. Those two would be the top two role players in the NBA playing behind talent like that.

I just don’t think Lavine or anyone else is in the cards this offseason and I’m not ready ti send out multiple players and 3 FRPs for a top tier player just yet.

[MannyIsGod]

Its not like Poeltl is locked up for many years. He's a free agent after next season. The only way the Spurs are more than a 45 win team is through either an amazing draft or they sign someone like Lavine in the offseason. If either of those two things don't happen, then Poeltl needs to be dealt one way or another. If the Spurs are not a contender then why are you going to pay Poeltl more than 13 million a year? Surely if you think Jakob is good enough to hold on, you don't see him making less than 13 mil per in his next contract (and probably more) right? What sense does it make for a team who isn't in contention to make that deal?

The Spurs are about to have to make a lot of tough extension and resigning decisions.

[TD 21]

It's all about perception imo. The optics of trading away the #2 pick so soon after the draft for a player who probably isn't perceived to be any better (even though he is) are something many teams would avoid.

I don't know the Warriors' mindset here, of course. Didn't the Kings ask a ton for Bagley because he was the #2 pick?

That and the fact that they could potentially win the championship by standing pat. It's also too soon to declare Wiseman a bust. I don't see him being a star in the sense of offensive hub, but a complimentary type one (Ayton) isn't entirely out of the question. Either way, it's worth it to find out.

What would Poeltl change? He's not much, if any more of a deterrent against the Jokic/Embiid types and they'd still start Looney because of his chemistry with their big three. Throw in Green playing small ball five and that leaves spot minutes for another non shooting big.

[John B]

It's all about perception imo. The optics of trading away the #2 pick so soon after the draft for a player who probably isn't perceived to be any better (even though he is) are something many teams would avoid.

I don't know the Warriors' mindset here, of course. Didn't the Kings ask a ton for Bagley because he was the #2 pick?

At one point Dubs considered the corpse of Aldridge for that #2 pick. Poeltl is no Aldridge, but what Poeltl has is defense. And Poeltl is only 26 and cheap. With Dubs talent around him, Poeltl could be great as a win-now piece.

[objective]

That and the fact that they could potentially win the championship by standing pat. It's also too soon to declare Wiseman a bust. I don't see him being a star in the sense of offensive hub, but a complimentary type one (Ayton) isn't entirely out of the question. Either way, it's worth it to find out.

What would Poeltl change? He's not much, if any more of a deterrent against the Jokic/Embiid types and they'd still start Looney because of his chemistry with their big three. Throw in Green playing small ball five and that leaves spot minutes for another non shooting big.

Poeltl is a big upgrade over Looney. It's not like Looney spreads from the floor from 3 either.

Poeltl would slide right in and do great as a screener and rim protector, and he's a decent passer as well, probably better all around than Bogut was at this stage.

Could the Warriors win standing pat? Of course, probably be favorites. And it's always easier to do nothing than take a risk.

But Wiseman just isn't there right now, he doesn't know how to play or even succeed as a screen setter last I watched him. He's remedial as a role player and hurt all the time on top. Freaking Eubanks has probably been a better advanced stats player even as a rookie, and he's trash.

Poeltl would fit like a glove, doing the little things and the thankless dirty work. He's a guy on a lotto team who busts his ass screen after screen after screen and contesting all take long without ever pouting over the lack of touches or whining or needing a post touch at the start of each game like Perkins in order to play hard.

Wiseman is closer to being worse rim protecting Whiteside than Ayton for his career if he doesn't get on the court and improve soon.

[TD 21]

Poeltl is a big upgrade over Looney. It's not like Looney spreads from the floor from 3 either.

Poeltl would slide right in and do great as a screener and rim protector, and he's a decent passer as well, probably better all around than Bogut was at this stage.

Could the Warriors win standing pat? Of course, probably be favorites. And it's always easier to do nothing than take a risk.

But Wiseman just isn't there right now, he doesn't know how to play or even succeed as a screen setter last I watched him. He's remedial as a role player and hurt all the time on top. Freaking Eubanks has probably been a better advanced stats player even as a rookie, and he's trash.

Poeltl would fit like a glove, doing the little things and the thankless dirty work. He's a guy on a lotto team who busts his ass screen after screen after screen and contesting all take long without ever pouting over the lack of touches or whining or needing a post touch at the start of each game like Perkins in order to play hard.

Wiseman is closer to being worse rim protecting Whiteside than Ayton for his career if he doesn't get on the court and improve soon.

I never said otherwise, just that Looney is going to maintain his role.

I actually think things have (as usual) broken perfectly for them. Worst top of the league in recent history and despite their recently struggles, they've settled into a rotation. So instead of it being a big deal to him and media when he plays a matchup dependent fringe rotation role (with Bjelica), it'll go without saying.

I was always a skeptic and would bet against him even being Ayton, I'm just saying he's barely played beyond high-school so they might as well try to develop him over selling low on a player they don't need.

[Seventyniner]

I was always a skeptic and would bet against him even being Ayton, I'm just saying he's barely played beyond high-school so they might as well try to develop him over selling low on a player they don't need.

I agree with this. Wiseman has a much higher ceiling than Poeltl, even though he's the worse player at the moment. It's not like the Spurs are trying to piece together a contender anyway.

Perhaps Wiseman will insist on a big rookie extension that he hasn't at all earned. If he's a potential locker room problem then staying away is best.

[JeffDuncan]

1. John Collins
2. Lauri Markkanen
3. Ben Simmons
4. Wiseman

I swear the kiddies on this board just swarm after the next shiny expensive bauble like a bunch of six year olds on a soccer pitch. Hell, I remember when people were obsessed with Corey Maggette. Honestly, it's kind of sweet how y'all rumble off with your little legs pumping over the grass rushing after the latest dreamboat player. Lawls.


Or it’s like a flock of pigeons. You’ve probably seen where one pigeon will take off, and suddenly they all take off in the same direction. But all they do is circle around and come back to the same place. Until it happens again. Lol

The notion of Poeltl for Wiseman is moronic, of course. Wiseman just had surgery, again, in mid December, on the same knee. It’s still unknown when, or if, he will be able to play.

[exstatic]

The hold up with GS might not be GS. Wiseman had meniscus surgery 9 months ago, and still isn’t playing. When Tim was injured in Apr 2000, he had surgery in May,nand was in training camp in September. Now, Tim’s was a shave, a debridement, and sometimes they try for a repair, if the blood flow was unimpaired. Nine months still seems like too long.

[KingKev]

The hold up with GS might not be GS. Wiseman had meniscus surgery 9 months ago, and still isn’t playing. When Tim was injured in Apr 2000, he had surgery in May,nand was in training camp in September. Now, Tim’s was a shave, a debridement, and sometimes they try for a repair, if the blood flow was unimpaired. Nine months still seems like too long.

He had a clean up surgery in December though. That is the real holdup. He is out indefinitely and may not be back for the playoffs.

[baseline bum]

That and the fact that they could potentially win the championship by standing pat. It's also too soon to declare Wiseman a bust. I don't see him being a star in the sense of offensive hub, but a complimentary type one (Ayton) isn't entirely out of the question. Either way, it's worth it to find out.

What would Poeltl change? He's not much, if any more of a deterrent against the Jokic/Embiid types and they'd still start Looney because of his chemistry with their big three. Throw in Green playing small ball five and that leaves spot minutes for another non shooting big.

Or they could get beaten by Phoenix, who is the best team in the league right now. Gotta think they'd love a big they can throw against Ayton and try to win a title this year. It's not like their window is wide open any more with Curry turning 34 in March. Don't think their timeline meshes well with Wiseman's, especially with his injuries this year.

[John B]

Poeltl played great last night, albeit no OKC bigs to deal with. But he recognized the mismatches and he asked for the ball and try to punish his defender. His posts actually create passing lane and open shots, if he continues, like Timmy on the post. Poeltl seems comfortable with this group. But I wish he plays consistently hungry to be great, and be the best big man on the court. But it seems he’s always outplayed or intimidated by other capable big man. Also Poeltl is a great help, but often he’s caught over helping and leaving his guy for a massive dunk. But kudos to him for playing great last night

[TD 21]

Or they could get beaten by Phoenix, who is the best team in the league right now. Gotta think they'd love a big they can throw against Ayton and try to win a title this year. It's not like their window is wide open any more with Curry turning 34 in March. Don't think their timeline meshes well with Wiseman's, especially with his injuries this year.

Obviously, but there's no reason why the Warriors can't beat the Suns as is and let's not act like Ayton is prime Olajuwon, O'Neal, Duncan, etc. He's far more finisher than creator.

Let's also not act like Poeltl is a stout post defender when we've seen him time and again be easily overpowered and put in foul trouble by low post bigs.

I don't see nearly enough upside to it to override all the reasons why I know they wouldn't do it, including their stated goal of being the next Spurs.