Foreign air carriers cancel Boeing 777 and 747-8 flights to the US over 5G rollout

[Winehole23]

On Tuesday, Emirates (https://go.redirectingat.com/?id=66960X1514734&xs=1&url=https://www.emirates.com/us/english/help/travel-updates/#4842&referrer=theverge.com&sref=https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/18/22890080/5g-flight-cancel-att-verizon-c-band-emirates-air-india-ana-japan&xcust=___vg__p_22654121__t_w__r_nakedcapitalism.co m__d_D), Air India (https://twitter.com/airindiain/status/1483509249376329731), ANA (https://go.redirectingat.com/?id=66960X1514734&xs=1&url=https://www.ana.co.jp/fs/int/en/&referrer=theverge.com&sref=https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/18/22890080/5g-flight-cancel-att-verizon-c-band-emirates-air-india-ana-japan&xcust=___vg__p_22654121__t_w__r_nakedcapitalism.co m__d_D), and Japan Airlines (https://go.redirectingat.com/?id=66960X1514734&xs=1&url=https://www.jal.co.jp/jp/en/info/2022/inter/20220118/?m=important_notice&referrer=theverge.com&sref=https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/18/22890080/5g-flight-cancel-att-verizon-c-band-emirates-air-india-ana-japan&xcust=___vg__p_22654121__t_w__r_nakedcapitalism.co m__d_D) all announced that they were canceling some flights to the US due to this week’s rollout of C-band 5G over concerns it could potentially interfere with some instruments, particularly on Boeing 777 aircraft. This comes as cell carriers, federal agencies, airlines, and airplane manufacturers struggle to reach an agreement (https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/18/22889664/att-5g-limits-c-band-expansion-airports-further-carrier-airline) on policies regarding how the rollout should be handled. The situation has continued to evolve as AT&T (https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/19/22891286/att-5g-rollout-select-metro-areas-faa-delay) and Verizon (https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/19/22891284/verizon-c-band-5g-ultra-wideband-now-available) switch on their c-band, but it’s only gotten messier.


ANA cites specific guidance from Boeing, saying that “Boeing has announced flight restrictions on all airlines operating the Boeing 777 aircraft.” Japan Airlines also cites a notification from Boeing, saying that it was told that “5G signals for U.S. mobile phones, which will begin operating in the U.S. on January 19, 2022, may interfere with the radio wave altimeter installed on the Boeing 777.”


However, Japan Airlines changed its guidance on Wednesday, saying it “received confirmation from the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) that there is no longer a problem with the operation of the Boeing 777 and we will resume service to the U.S. mainland with Boeing 777 from January 20.” ANA has updated its advisory with similar language, saying that it’s returning to “the normal schedule based on FAA notification that there is no safety issue with the operation of Boeing 777 aircraft to the U.S. airports that we serve.” However, Emirates and Air India haven’t changed their guidance, and the FAA hasn’t publicly released an updated statement. The 777 isn’t currently on the regulator’s list of cleared aircraft.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/18/22890080/5g-flight-cancel-att-verizon-c-band-emirates-air-india-ana-japan

[Winehole23]

On Tuesday morning, both AT&T and Verizon announced (https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/18/22889664/att-5g-limits-c-band-expansion-airports-further-carrier-airline) that they would voluntarily delay 5G antenna upgrades near certain airports. The chairwoman for the Federal Communications Commission issued a statement saying it’s “essential that the FAA now complete” the process of assessing altimeter performance and the effect C-band 5G communication can have on it with “both care and speed.”

[Winehole23]

Why is there a potential problem in the United States, but not Europe? It comes down to technical details.


Mobile phone companies in the United States are rolling out 5G service in a spectrum of radio waves with frequencies between 3.7 and 3.98 GHz. The companies paid the US government $81 billion in 2021 for the right to use those frequencies, known as the C-Band (http://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/tech/c-band-5g-att-verizon-rollout/index.html). But in Europe, 5G services use the slower 3.4 to 3.8 GHz range of spectrum.


The aviation industry is worried that US 5G service is too close to the spectrum used by radar altimeters, which is between 4.2 and 4.4 GHz. Europe does not face the same risk, according to the industry, because there is a much larger buffer between the spectrum used by radar altimeters and 5G.


"If there is no proper mitigation, this risk has the potential for broad impacts to aviation operations in the United States as well as in other regions where the 5G network is being implemented next to the 4.2 to 4.4 GHz frequency band," IATA and IFALPA said in their statement.


"
We were not aware that the power of the antennas in the United States [has] been doubled compared to what's going on elsewhere. We were not aware that the antenna themselves have been put into a vertical position rather than a slight slanting position," Emirates President Tim Clark told CNN.
Business (http://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/19/business/emirates-5g-quest/index.html) on Wednesday.

"So on that basis we took that decision late last night to suspend all our services until we had clarity," he added.

AT&T, which owns CNN's parent company, and Verizon both announced Tuesday that they would delay activating 5G on some towers around certain airports. The wireless technology's rollout near major airports had been scheduled for Wednesday.

"We are frustrated by the FAA's inability to do what nearly 40 countries have done, which is to safely deploy 5G technology without disrupting aviation services, and we urge it do so in a timely manner," said Megan Ketterer, a spokesperson for AT&T.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/business/5g-aviation-safety-europe/index.html

[hater]

American exceptionalism :lol

[pgardn]

I have to say this should have been thought through a bit better.
The range of these signals decreases in an inverse square pattern but if they are powerful and too close to airports...
Industries not paying attention to each other.

That being said, it will be interesting when hater receives the 5g signals interrupting the massive antennae located in his brain.

[pgardn]

American exceptionalism :lol

It started with troops on the ground during atomic bomb detonations and flying people through radioactive clouds.

[boutons_deux]

I have to say this should have been thought through a bit better.
The range of these signals decreases in an inverse square pattern but if they are powerful and too close to airports...
Industries not paying attention to each other.

That being said, it will be interesting when hater receives the 5g signals interrupting the massive antennae located in his brain.

The problem more specifically was the wireless phone industry lobbying bribing corrupting the Trump FAA to auction these frequencies

I read the problem is with the older altimeters whose frequency filtering is not as sharp as newer altimeters
So it's surprising to hear the 777 is susceptible to wireless phone interference

[pgardn]

The problem more specifically was the wireless phone industry lobbying bribing corrupting the Trump FAA to auction these frequencies

I read the problem is with the older altimeters whose frequency filtering is not as sharp as newer altimeters
So it's surprising to hear the 777 is susceptible to wireless phone interference

Was this in Winehole's link(s)?
If not, I would like to read about it.

[boutons_deux]

Was this in Winehole's link(s)?
If not, I would like to read about it.

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/c-band-5g-networks

[DMC]

If we could just get the feds to control healthcare. we'd be in hog heaven.

[DMC]

American exceptionalism :lol

If we could just get people to put their tray tables in the upright and locked position, we'd all feel much safer.

[Ef-man]

The problem more specifically was the wireless phone industry lobbying bribing corrupting the Trump FAA to auction these frequencies

I read the problem is with the older altimeters whose frequency filtering is not as sharp as newer altimeters
So it's surprising to hear the 777 is susceptible to wireless phone interference

Yup, if only the c-band was not sold. Up to brandon to fix the shit.

[pgardn]

If we could just get the feds to control healthcare. we'd be in hog heaven.

Yeah.
Since this private stuff is working so well.

[Thread]

If we could just get Effy to shut his fuckin' mouth, go home and get his shine box. Like mirrors.

[Ef-man]

If we could just get Effy to shut his fuckin' mouth, go home and get his shine box. Like mirrors.

He's out, and he's staying out!

[DMC]

Yeah.
Since this private stuff is working so well.

"We don't like private HC so the feds must be better"

"Feds suck"

Same people saying both

[pgardn]

"We don't like private HC so the feds must be better"

"Feds suck"

Same people saying both

Phenomenal insight...
and I especially like " WE dont so this means ____"

DMC for deep analysis.

[Ef-man]

Brandon has to fix the shit from the previous administration who did not listen to air industry on the selling c-band.

RTCA wrote study on this prior to sale and the administration idiots still moved forward with the auction of c-band space.

https://www.rtca.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SC-239-5G-Interference-Assessment-Report_274-20-PMC-2073_accepted_changes.pdf

[Thread]

Brandon has to fix the shit from the previous administration who did not listen to air industry on the selling c-band.

RTCA wrote study on this prior to sale and the administration idiots still moved forward with the auction of c-band space.

https://www.rtca.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SC-239-5G-Interference-Assessment-Report_274-20-PMC-2073_accepted_changes.pdf

I'm hittin' the old sack-a-roony, fart face.

[Ef-man]

“Go Brandon Go” - Airline Industry

Another day, another disaster solved.