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View Full Version : Free Agent: Gary Payton



timvp
04-03-2003, 06:16 PM
http://espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/0259.jpghttp://espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/med/trans/mil.GIF

Name: Gary Payton
Height: 6-4
Weight: 180 lbs.
Pos: PG
Age: 34
Born: July 23, 1968, Oakland, California
Drafted: 1990, 1st round, 2nd pick by SuperSonics
College: Oregon State

Gary Payton is a free agent this summer. The Spurs thought about trading for him before and will have an open chance at him this offseason.

I like what Payton brings to the table. He's a great competitor and has a lot of fire. He isn't afraid to take and make the big shots. Of all the free agents, he might be the biggest game breaker of them all.

The questions regarding Payton are:

1) Can he play the two? He wouldn't be as effective as Parker at the point, so he'd have to slide over to the shooting guard position.

2) Is he worth signing to a big contract at his age? He's been through a lot of wars ... does he still have the legs?

3) Is he compatible to the rest of the team? He's a great competitor and leader, but sometimes is viewed as selfish. Can he mesh with the current roster?

I like Payton as a backup option. If the Spurs don't win the Championship and it is apparent that they need a clutch perimeter player, they should look no further than Gary Payton.

Jimcs50
04-03-2003, 06:19 PM
To paraphrase OJ: The Glove DOES not fit!

Patrick Davis
04-03-2003, 06:45 PM
Spurs don't need a guard. Parker, Manu and Jack are a good future for the Spurs. Payton is another point guard that we don't need.

If I don't want Kidd, I definitely don't want an even older Payton.

SpursForever
04-03-2003, 07:00 PM
You need consuling if you think Payton would play second fiddle to Parker.

Patrick Davis
04-03-2003, 07:25 PM
you just need counseling.

KoriEllis
04-03-2003, 08:40 PM
Gary Payton is an interesting idea. His veteran leadership and playoff experience would be a plus.

I would only want him if he came real cheap. I don't think he will and I don't think the Spurs actually need him.

kohai
04-03-2003, 08:47 PM
I don't see what all of the fuss is about. GP made one trip the the Finals amidst a career of early playoff flameouts.

I thought that the one Seattle columnist hit the nail on the head in his column the day after the trade. He said that GP wasn't the problem, but he also wasn't the solution. Wise man.

Marcus Bryant
04-03-2003, 09:23 PM
Hmmm....would GP like to get paid and finish his career competing for titles with TD on his side? Um....yeah.

timvp
04-03-2003, 09:37 PM
Indeed.

Duncan and Payton are said to have a good relationship. The Spurs could get Payton if they want him.

spurster
04-03-2003, 10:37 PM
How much for how long? Is Payton willing to accept 30 mins/game? Payton for 3 years plus a decent bigman with the cap space is an alternative to Kidd for 6 years and not enough money for a decent bigman. Maybe not better, but the Spurs could do worse.

timvp
04-03-2003, 10:53 PM
Payton will probably not be able to garner a MAX contract based on the few number of teams that have cap space. I can see his contract starting anywhere from $5M to $9M.

This is a backup option the Spurs should look at. I wouldn't go into the summer with Payton as my number one option, however.

Big Syke
04-03-2003, 11:23 PM
Payton on the Spurs doesn't sound like it would work. Payton fights too much with his teammates. Nobody likes him. He hogs the ball.

Why should we even think about getting him?

MadeFromDust
04-04-2003, 12:09 AM
If Kidd maintains his last stance saying he will resign with NJ, then I am all for getting Payton. GP r u wit me?

Ed Helicopter Jones
04-04-2003, 12:16 AM
I like the GP idea more than Kidd, especially if the price is right.

Signing GP and another upper tier free-agent, as opposed to signing Kidd and some scraps to fill out the roster, seems much more appealing to me.

Big Syke
04-04-2003, 02:33 AM
He has cancer written all over him.

Guru of Nothing
04-04-2003, 03:59 AM
He has cancer written all over him.

Incorrect. Payton is not a Cancer. You are two days off. Payton was born on July 23rd and is in fact a Leo.

SequSpur
04-04-2003, 04:07 AM
Sign him up

Patrick Davis
04-04-2003, 05:09 AM
Payton would fit great, 10 years ago. Get someone who we can build around, not worry about them retiring.

Ghost Writer
04-23-2003, 11:58 AM
Gee, I wonder if we would've won a title last year and this year had we done the right thing and traded Parker, Rose and Daniels for Payton back in 2001.

This has a nice ring to it:

Duncan
Bowen
Robinson
Payton
Jackson

But, yeah, I know... what if Parker becomes as good as Payton someday.

Right. And I'm still waiting for Chris Carrawell to become the next Reggie Miller.


:rolleyes

timvp
04-23-2003, 12:20 PM
Here we go again ...

The Spurs would have got beat by the Lakers last year with Payton. Payton isn't > Kobe which is needed when Shaq is > Duncan.

If Shaq is greater than or equal to Duncan and how Kobe is greater than Payton, then please explain ...

Duncan + Payton > Shaq + Kobe

Morphgizmo
04-23-2003, 12:42 PM
If the Spurs grabbed Kidd then I certainly wouldn't complain, but I think Payton is a better overall option if the Spurs go small in free agency.

Both players can D-up like mothers and do fairly well guarding two's.

Payton, unlike Kidd can get and hit his own shot when the offense breaks down late in the shot clock.

Both guys get others involved. Kidd is obviously better at it, but I think Payton does it better in the half-court set because he can set up in the post and draw double teams. Kidd gets others involved because he's a phenomenal passer. Payton gets others involved because his offensive game is respected.

Kidd definitely has three or four years more than Payton left in the tank. But if you don't plan on getting rid of Parker, then I see that as a good thing.

Kidd will ask for and receive the max. Payton might demand it, but I think he'll settle for less given the market conditions.

I would much rather the Spurs go big this summer with a Brand or O'Neal. But if they can't, I think Payton would be just as effective as Kidd over that time frame. Give me Manu, Payton and Parker at the one and two, while Jack and Bowen dominate the three while filling in as needed at the two.

timvp
04-23-2003, 01:30 PM
Good post, Morph.

You make a good case for GP. He'd certainly help when the Spurs get bogged down in their offense. He can hit the big shot time and again.

If you are thinking long-term, Kidd is the player to get between the two. But for one season, it is more of a question.

Ghost Writer
04-23-2003, 01:31 PM
timvp, you're right about:

Duncan + Payton < Shaq + Kobe

... but if Duncan + Parker had the Spurs in every game last playoffs until the bitter end, methinks Payton would've been enough to put us over the top.

Remember, you said yourself that our supporting cast is/was superior to the Lakers.

:cooldevil

timvp
04-23-2003, 01:35 PM
The addition of Payton would have been nuetralized by the subtraction of Parker, Rose, Daniels and SSmith.

You can't tell me Payton is more valuable than those four.

pfc2002
04-23-2003, 01:48 PM
Not to mention the fact that SJax has come up straight up and said he wasn't ready to play last year. He was a nightmare, which he admitted. He matured because of last year -- which he also is quoted as saying (from the Port Arthur paper). add the fact that Rose was a HUGE part of the Lakers series last year.

You better hope Ghost that we don't win it all this year because that will go down as one of the greatest things never to have happened for the spurs. Can you imagine how bad it would look for an idiot who still defends it with 10000+ posts...

pfc2002
04-23-2003, 02:11 PM
Ghost who guards shaq when DRob goes down and plays 5 minutes in game 6 because of foul trouble? Mark Bryant???

You are a lightweight dreamer... THANK GOD THAT TRADE DIDN"T HAPPEN...

Ghost Writer
04-23-2003, 04:01 PM
Payton > Parker, Rose, Daniels and SSmith

You're comparing the best PG of our time to a teenager from France, a 'tweener who was dumped by the Hornets, a combo guard who doesn't see minutes anymore and an old guard who can't crack our rotation anymore.

Wake up.

You act like we wouldn't have been able to find more cheap fill-ins to rise to the occasion before the 2001-02 season started.



:cooldevil

timvp
04-23-2003, 04:03 PM
The trade would take away any bench advantage the Spurs would have had. So I ask again:

Shaq + Kobe < Duncan + Payton ?

Question.

Again.

pfc2002
04-23-2003, 04:09 PM
yeah we'll just pick from ALL those players that can guard shaq.

Ghost Writer
04-23-2003, 04:11 PM
I already answered you.

I think benches are overrated anyway. Look at our teams over the years. It's always been one superstar surrounded by some pretty good guys we got in the first round of the draft and a bunch of castoffs you played better than ever for our Spurs.

I am supremely confident that Rose, Daniels and Smitty could've not only been replaced, but even improved upon.

Daniels is gone and Smitty doesn't play today in reality.

Rose is an overachiever. There's a lot of big men we could've picked up on the cheap, just like we picked up Kevin Willis and Mark Bryant before him and Jerome Jersey before him.

So ultimately, it comes down to Payton or Parker.

That's a no-brainer.

pfc2002
04-23-2003, 04:19 PM
you didn't explain shit:
if Kobe + Shaq > Payton + Duncan
and
Lakers Bench > Spurs Bench
and
Lakers have home court, and DRob played about half the series...
=
spurs win

only in ghost world (tm). where you decide your right and then figure out why...
:wtf

Ghost Writer
04-24-2003, 12:53 PM
Are you retarded, pfc?

Since when is LA's bench better than ours?



Role playing bench guys are a dime a dozen and the Spurs happen to be excellent at filling out a bench. Bench guys don't win titles; stars do. Payton + Duncan puts us closer to Shaq + Kobe than the crap we've been putting out there since 1999.

Re-read the thread and only post something intelligent.
Don't eat at the adult's table if you'e gonna choke on the food, kid.


:cooldevil

T Park Num 9
04-24-2003, 01:21 PM
http://photos.imageevent.com/loonman/newer//not-this-again.jpg

timvp
04-24-2003, 01:27 PM
If you do a four-for-one trade, the bench talent shall suffer. No?


Question.

Ghost Writer
04-24-2003, 01:39 PM
Are you screwing with me, timmy?

I already acknowledged the bench three times.

On the surface, the bench may seem like it would suffer.

But think...

Steve Smith doesn't play anymore.

Antonio Daniels hardly plays anymore.

Malik Rose would be the only guy that we'd probably miss, but there's plenty of hardworking bigs that we could have gotten — and cheaper I might add — to fulfill his "big man off the bench" status.

For the last time, it comes back to an upgrade of Payton over Parker.

Plus the benefits of starting Stephen Jackson a year earlier.

It's common sense that if you can grab a franchise player like Payton in his prime at the cost of two bench guys, an unknown rookie and an old guard, you do it and win.

:cooldevil

timvp
04-24-2003, 01:42 PM
Since Payton also wanted an extension at that point in time if he were traded, would you have been willing to give up those four players AND any possible cap room this offseaon?

Question.

Ghost Writer
04-24-2003, 01:47 PM
Absolutely.

As I've said before, I am about winning now and worrying later.

Payton still doesn't have that extension, now does he?

Now you add in the fact that signing a star free agent this summer is not a guarantee and my contenton makes even more sense.

A trade gets you talent you can play immediately. Cap space grants you the ability to sign talent at a later date.

Coming off a title in 1999, the Spurs with the Twin Towers were built to win from 2000-2003, not after Robinson retires.

I take no pleasure in being right about this.

:cooldevil

Spursman
04-24-2003, 02:00 PM
If Pop had of worried about winning now and not later then we also would not be in the cap position we are in now to sign some very nice player(s).

:gun

Ghost Writer
04-24-2003, 02:48 PM
Spursman, please re-read what I wrote.

Who guarantees we're going to sign some "very nice players" this summer?

We could've been winning with the best PG of our time the past two seasons.

:cooldevil

travis2
04-24-2003, 03:02 PM
http://photos.imageevent.com/loonman/newer//not-this-again.jpg


Who guarantees we're going to sign some "very nice players" this summer?

There are no guarantees in life. Or in the NBA.


We could've been winning with the best PG of our time the past two seasons.

Read my lips...There are no guarantees in life. Or in the NBA.

Trying to pull the "no guarantees" card with Spursman (and others) and then skimming right over the same situation in your scenario shows a shocking lack of logical thinking.

Ghost Writer
04-24-2003, 03:25 PM
Know your role, travis.

Notice my usage of the words, "...we could've...".

Not "would've".

Don't talk to me about guarantees, pal.

I'd take the past two years with Payton over rolling the dice this summer.

But then again, I like to win and stuff.

:cooldevil

travis2
04-24-2003, 03:30 PM
I know my role. It's to keep you honest.


Don't talk to me about guarantees, pal.

I'll fucking talk to you about anything I damn well please, pal...


I'd take the past two years with Payton over rolling the dice this summer.

Translation into reality: "I wanted to roll the dice MY way two years ago and take a chance on an aging PG with a bad locker room rep and a huge contract, but the people who actually get paid to roll the dice went another way."

Ghost Writer
04-24-2003, 04:10 PM
travis, pay attention or STFU.

Your comeback reminds me of the stupidity I addressed back in 2001. At least timvp has the creativity to keep the argument fresh.

You don't know the NBA if you think Payton wouldn't have immediately improved our chances over the past two years.

We're talking about a perennial All-Star who had his best season as a pro last year.

And he's still a free agent this summer, folks.

Get with the f'ing program.

The Spurs f'ed up.


:cooldevil

travis2
04-24-2003, 04:16 PM
Refresh your tired rhetoric or STFU.

A 1 for 4 trade would NOT...listen VERY closely here...NOT have improved this team. Period.

No drug-induced ranting on your part will make it so.

Once again you merely show you live in your own Rod Serling-created universe, while the rest of us slog it out here in the real world.

The Spurs didn't get Payton for 4 players. That was the correct move.

Get that through your head, or move along, little boy...

timvp
04-24-2003, 04:24 PM
Where is Marcus Bryant when you need him?


:brotha

baseline bum
04-24-2003, 04:30 PM
Casper, who was your replacement for Rose that would have been available with the minimum exception the team would have left after trading for Payton?


Question

pfc2002
04-24-2003, 06:05 PM
and if you'll fucking read anything besides your own post's you'll see time after time SJax saying he wasn't ready last year.

There is another article on the front page of mysa.com/spurs which he alludes to this also. DUDE, Pop says SJax wasn't ready last year, SJax says it yet you continue to say he was... What the **** is wrong with you????

Ghost Writer
04-26-2003, 07:27 PM
Silence, travis and pfc. Reading your posts makes me feel like I'm huffing.

Everyone loved Charles Smith when he started for the Spurs in 2001-02. You could've started him at the 2.

baseline bum, I would have to see who was available in the summer of 2001 to see what minimum salaried big we'd use to replace the almighty Malik Rose. The funny thing is, how do you think Rose became Rose? He was picked off the scrap heap after he was discarded from Charlotte.

We're talking about the best PG of the past ten years in exchange for two guys who don't play anymore, a nbench 'tweener and an young PG.

Trade accpeted.

It's two years later and I don't see any more titles. folks.

:cooldevil

travis2
04-26-2003, 07:42 PM
Silence yourself, GhostWriter. Reading your posts makes me know you're huffing...

What are you gonna do about it, huh? C'mon, silence me.

Try actually having a logical take, instead...

Ghost Writer
04-26-2003, 07:54 PM
travis, do yourself a favor and put the Nets/Bucks game on right now.

Watch Gary Payton play and then maybe you'll understand why he'd be more valuable to us than Parker, Rose off the bench and Daniels and Smitty (who don't play anymore).

Dope.

:cooldevil

travis2
04-26-2003, 08:02 PM
ghostwriter, why don't you actually watch a Spurs game for once and see why Parker and Rose are invaluable to this team.

Acephalic wonder...