Isaac Levy-Rubinett: The Ringer: Do the Spurs Need a Star to Become Relevant Again?

[Drom John]

Do the Spurs Need a Star to Become Relevant Again? (https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/2/1/22910892/dejounte-murray-all-star-san-antonio-spurs)

[Leetonidas]

Duh

[lmbebo]

nice piece

[JeffDuncan]

Publicity, yay!

[The Truth #6]

Good article. No great insights but strikes a balance that most here probably should acknowledge.

[stnick2261]

What I got from that article is that the Spurs could be a very good team, but have a glaring hole at PF. Plug that hole and we could grow into a championship team like the '04 Pistons. It doesn't matter how good you are in other areas; if you have a position that can be exploited, you're going to have a bad time (I forget who said "give the ball to whoever Matt Bonner is guarding).

[R. DeMurre]

Nice to see a reasonable objective take that doesn't project KJ as a mini Barkley or Primo as a future Kobe. I still feel relatively optimistic about the future. Think about a team like the Heat: in 2018-19, they had a winning percentage of .476, with Josh Richardson as their leading scorer... just one season later, they had a winning percentage of .603 and made it to the finals, after trading Richardson & other parts for Jimmy Butler, acquiring Crowder, drafting Tyler Herro, and seeing young guys like Bam & Robinson improve significantly. The Spurs aren't that far away from this type of possibility, with their available draft picks, cap space, and young talent.

[MannyIsGod]

I honestly don't think they need a star. As the poster above me pointed out, the Pistons were a team in the mid 2000s that succeed without a true star. They had very good players right around fringe all start level, but honestly they never had a legit MVP candidate on those teams and they were all very good. Now, that brand of basketball won't fly anymore, as thank god we don't have games ending in the 80s for the most part. But I still think a team that has a collection of talent like that, and has a few that are able to get their own shots late in games can definitely have enough success to be considered relevant.

[KingKev]

Nice to see a reasonable objective take that doesn't project KJ as a mini Barkley or Primo as a future Kobe. I still feel relatively optimistic about the future. Think about a team like the Heat: in 2018-19, they had a winning percentage of .476, with Josh Richardson as their leading scorer... just one season later, they had a winning percentage of .603 and made it to the finals, after trading Richardson & other parts for Jimmy Butler, acquiring Crowder, drafting Tyler Herro, and seeing young guys like Bam & Robinson improve significantly. The Spurs aren't that far away from this type of possibility, with their available draft picks, cap space, and young talent.

Have you been to Miami? Have you been to San Antonio? Now compare. Also similar tax situation. No disgruntled star will want to come here via trade so there are no Jimmy Butlers in our future. We also have no young players to compare to Herro and Bam in terms of their upside and potential. Primo, Keldon, Vassell are not near as talented. If we drafted Herro he would have been in the g-league for two years and any sign of a bad attitude he would have been dropped.

The Sours could take a page out of Miami’s playbook for sure but it win’t happen with Pop behind the wheel.

[Leetonidas]

Nice to see a reasonable objective take that doesn't project KJ as a mini Barkley or Primo as a future Kobe. I still feel relatively optimistic about the future. Think about a team like the Heat: in 2018-19, they had a winning percentage of .476, with Josh Richardson as their leading scorer... just one season later, they had a winning percentage of .603 and made it to the finals, after trading Richardson & other parts for Jimmy Butler, acquiring Crowder, drafting Tyler Herro, and seeing young guys like Bam & Robinson improve significantly. The Spurs aren't that far away from this type of possibility, with their available draft picks, cap space, and young talent.

Biggest difference is guys like Butler want to go to Miami...Spurs only real hope at getting another superstar is through trade (and yes Butler was traded in a S&T) or by lucking out in the draft. sadly no real top tier star is coming to play here. but I like the Miami comparison

[KingKev]

Nice to see a reasonable objective take that doesn't project KJ as a mini Barkley or Primo as a future Kobe. I still feel relatively optimistic about the future. Think about a team like the Heat: in 2018-19, they had a winning percentage of .476, with Josh Richardson as their leading scorer... just one season later, they had a winning percentage of .603 and made it to the finals, after trading Richardson & other parts for Jimmy Butler, acquiring Crowder, drafting Tyler Herro, and seeing young guys like Bam & Robinson improve significantly. The Spurs aren't that far away from this type of possibility, with their available draft picks, cap space, and young talent.

Have you been to Miami? Have you been to San Antonio? Now compare. Also similar tax situation. No disgruntled star will want to come here via trade so there are no Jimmy Butlers in our future. We also have no young players to compare to Herro and Bam in terms of their upside and potential. Primo, Keldon, Vassell are not near as talented. If we drafted Herro he would have been in the g-league for two years and any sign of a bad attitude he would have been dropped.

The Spurs could take a page out of Miami’s playbook for sure but it won’t happen with Pop behind the wheel.

[stnick2261]

Biggest difference is guys like Butler want to go to Miami...Spurs only real hope at getting another superstar is through trade (and yes Butler was traded in a S&T) or by lucking out in the draft. sadly no real top tier star is coming to play here. but I like the Miami comparison

I think the point is that we don't need a top-tier talent to fill out the roster. We need a PF somewhere between "solid starter" and "fringe all-star" to make it work and we have 3 ways to get it (this draft if the ping-pong balls go our way, a trade, or FA signing probably in '23 since there's no good options this summer). The '04 Pistons only had 1 all-star player and he was 2nd team all-NBA. The team was just well-rounded, fit well, and was well coached.

[MultiTroll]

Nice to see a reasonable objective take that doesn't project KJ as a mini Barkley or Primo as a future Kobe. I still feel relatively optimistic about the future. Think about a team like the Heat: in 2018-19, they had a winning percentage of .476, with Josh Richardson as their leading scorer... just one season later, they had a winning percentage of .603 and made it to the finals, after trading Richardson & other parts for Jimmy Butler, acquiring Crowder, drafting Tyler Herro, and seeing young guys like Bam & Robinson improve significantly. The Spurs aren't that far away from this type of possibility, with their available draft picks, cap space, and young talent.
Great points. Hopefully Craig or his replacement in 2032 will utilize.


I honestly don't think they need a star. As the poster above me pointed out, the Pistons were a team in the mid 2000s that succeed without a true star. They had very good players right around fringe all start level, but honestly they never had a legit MVP candidate on those teams and they were all very good. Now, that brand of basketball won't fly anymore, as thank god we don't have games ending in the 80s for the most part. But I still think a team that has a collection of talent like that, and has a few that are able to get their own shots late in games can definitely have enough success to be considered relevant.
True, but other then 04 Pistons and 2020 Heat every Championship team has had an MVP level or at least legit All Star player(s).
NBA Awards - Finals MVP - National Basketball Association - ESPN (http://www.espn.com/nba/history/awards/_/id/43#:~:text=Finals%20MVP%20%20%20YEAR%20%20%20PLAYE R,%20%206.8%20%2021%20more%20rows%20)

Phoenix had no league MVP but their best player Booker, along with Ayton and some decent play from role player Chris Paul got them to the Finals.

[Leetonidas]

I think the point is that we don't need a top-tier talent to fill out the roster. We need a PF somewhere between "solid starter" and "fringe all-star" to make it work and we have 3 ways to get it (this draft if the ping-pong balls go our way, a trade, or FA signing probably in '23 since there's no good options this summer). The '04 Pistons only had 1 all-star player and he was 2nd team all-NBA. The team was just well-rounded, fit well, and was well coached.

i was speaking specifically to R. DeMurre's point about Miami

and the Pistons are a good example but they are moreso the exception to the rule. While they may not have had many all-stars that year, Billups/Hamilton/Wallace/Sheed were all all-stars within 2 years of that season, and all of them were multiple time all-stars in their careers. At this point Spurs only have 1 player that we could see in an AS game and thats DJM. Pistons are an anomaly in this situation imho. But again, they still had 4 all-star level players on their team while we have maybe 1

[R. DeMurre]

It's silly to think that every single star prefers a place like Miami... Duncan had a chance to leave San Antonio for Florida and didn't, and Lamarcus Aldridge chose San Antonio after a summer of posts that said "no big free agents EVER sign with the Spurs." Yes, there is a built in disadvantage... I definitely acknowledge that, but there will always be those players whose temperaments lean in a different direction. Not every NBA guy is James Harden, and obsessed with topless bars and glitzy nightclubs.

[KingKev]

I honestly don't think they need a star. As the poster above me pointed out, the Pistons were a team in the mid 2000s that succeed without a true star. They had very good players right around fringe all start level, but honestly they never had a legit MVP candidate on those teams and they were all very good. Now, that brand of basketball won't fly anymore, as thank god we don't have games ending in the 80s for the most part. But I still think a team that has a collection of talent like that, and has a few that are able to get their own shots late in games can definitely have enough success to be considered relevant.

Every member of the Pistons starting 5 in 2003-05 were better than our current starting 5 outside of DJ.
are you kidding me? Prince, Billups, Hamilton, Sheed and Wallace versus DJ, White, McLovin, Jak. Just because they weren’t perennial all-stars doesnt mean they weren’t solid players. Those solid players are >>>>>> than anything on our team.

We are a g-league team.

[Leetonidas]

It's silly to think that every single star prefers a place like Miami... Duncan had a chance to leave San Antonio for Florida and didn't, and Lamarcus Aldridge chose San Antonio after a summer of posts that said "no big free agents EVER sign with the Spurs." Yes, there is a built in disadvantage... I definitely acknowledge that, but there will always be those players whose temperaments lean in a different direction. Not every NBA guy is James Harden, and obsessed with topless bars and glitzy nightclubs.

True, not saying that it's not possible, but only stating what you said there, we have a built in disadvantage. We got lucky with Tim, there will never be another superstar like him. And LMA happened to be from Texas and Spurs were an elite team when he came here. Just saying, the situation we are in now is completely different so those examples may not be the best indicators

[The Truth #6]

Have you been to Miami? Have you been to San Antonio? Now compare. Also similar tax situation. No disgruntled star will want to come here via trade so there are no Jimmy Butlers in our future. We also have no young players to compare to Herro and Bam in terms of their upside and potential. Primo, Keldon, Vassell are not near as talented. If we drafted Herro he would have been in the g-league for two years and any sign of a bad attitude he would have been dropped.

The Spurs could take a page out of Miami’s playbook for sure but it won’t happen with Pop behind the wheel.


Good points here but the lameness of SA is not Pop’s fault. If anything, his legendary stature helps more than hurts attract players.

[MannyIsGod]

Every member of the Pistons starting 5 in 2003-05 were better than our current starting 5 outside of DJ.
are you kidding me? Prince, Billups, Hamilton, Sheed and Wallace versus DJ, White, McLovin, Jak. Just because they weren’t perennial all-stars doesnt mean they weren’t solid players. Those solid players are >>>>>> than anything on our team.

We are a g-league team.

Did you see the prompt? It wasn't are the current Spurs better than the 04 pistons. Of course they are not. The point in OP was asking if the SPurs need a star. Well, no, they just need to amass players that are good enough to make the team a winning team like the 04 pistons. At no point is anyone in this thread saying the Spurs are on a level of a team like the Pistons who won a fucking title.

Also the idea that we're a g league team is stupid just in the opposite direction.

[FutureMan]

I guess it depends on your idea of relevant. A playoff team? Then no a star isn’t needed. A contender? Yes.

When was the last time a team won a championship without one of the best players in the league or a top ten player of all time? Or better yet, how many times has it happened?

[spurs1990]

Prevailing NBA wisdom dictates that such a player is a prerequisite for title contention, which divides the league into two groups: teams that are building around that player, and teams that are trying to find and acquire him. San Antonio belonged in the former category from 1997, when it drafted Tim Duncan, to 2018, when it traded Kawhi Leonard.

How young is the author. David Robinson was every bit of the title contending centerpiece that Duncan and certainly Leonard was. The 1995 and 1996 teams were a break or two from a Finals run, with great support staff in Sean Elliott and Rodman. I didn't follow them closely back then, but 1990, 1991, and 1994 teams were pretty stout. Sean even said in his podcast with DRob that the 1991 team was a title favorite. Popvich was involved in 90, 91, 95 and 96 too as either asst coach or GM if that's the linkage the author was implying.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I read this article earlier today and it was pretty good in my opinion

[KingKev]

Nice to see a reasonable objective take that doesn't project KJ as a mini Barkley or Primo as a future Kobe. I still feel relatively optimistic about the future. Think about a team like the Heat: in 2018-19, they had a winning percentage of .476, with Josh Richardson as their leading scorer... just one season later, they had a winning percentage of .603 and made it to the finals, after trading Richardson & other parts for Jimmy Butler, acquiring Crowder, drafting Tyler Herro, and seeing young guys like Bam & Robinson improve significantly. The Spurs aren't that far away from this type of possibility, with their available draft picks, cap space, and young talent.

Have you been to Miami? Have you been to San Antonio? Now compare. Also similar tax situation. No disgruntled star will want to come here via trade so there are no Jimmy Butlers in our future. We also have no young players to compare to Herro and Bam in terms of their upside and potential. Primo, Keldon, Vassell are not near as talented. If we drafted Herro he would have been in the g-league for two years and any sign of a bad attitude he would have been dropped.

The Sours could take a page out of Miami’s playbook for sure but it win’t happen with Pop behind the wheel.

[RC_Drunkford]

if the Spurs had Collins they would have 2 borderline All-Stars...

[r0drig0lac]

I honestly don't think they need a star. As the poster above me pointed out, the Pistons were a team in the mid 2000s that succeed without a true star. They had very good players right around fringe all start level, but honestly they never had a legit MVP candidate on those teams and they were all very good. Now, that brand of basketball won't fly anymore, as thanks to the change of rules to blatantly favor the offenses we don't have games ending in the 80s for the most part. But I still think a team that has a collection of talent like that, and has a few that are able to get their own shots late in games can definitely have enough success to be considered relevant.

[John B]

Everybody needs a star or at least 3 stars nowadays to contend. But the author is saying what everybody here in ST already knows. Spurs are not big on trading for one, but would rather groom their players to be one. Even when they traded George Hill. It was for the rights to draft Kawhi, and still it was not a sure deal. Some here would disagree :lol, Spurs had to mold Kawhi to the star player that he became. It’s frustrating somewhat as a fan when you wish the PATFO would just take a big swing at trading Simmons for example, or last Summer, offering for Collins, or taking a risk on drafting Jalen Johnson. Yet time and again, after the dust settles, their moves make more sense. Primo seems to be a great pick now, and why risk trading down the pick if you know who you really want and some other team might steal? I advocated trading Murray, and Co, for Simmons earlier the season. Heck, Murray is proving to be much much more. Doing a bid war on Collins? when the same player might be heading our way anyway (hopefully). Yes Spurs, like everybody else, needs a Star. It’s just the Spurs way is not like everybody else :bobo

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

We've chased stars before. It typically doesn't end well.

[MultiTroll]

Yes Spurs, like everybody else, needs a Star. It’s just the Spurs way is not like everybody else :bobo
The "Spurs Way" that started with Timmy Dunks and ended with Zaza....
is over.

No one has the magical answer but short of getting another ping pong ball bounce the idea that "We'll grow our own just like before" is gonzo.
Currently tied for 6th worst record and could easily descend to 5th.

The other 4 we are not going to out-tank even with Grandpa Senile still driving the car.

Primo is a total score. Someone in the Spurs scouting dept knows what the hell they are doing.
Can pick #5 get us another score? I like the track record.

[John B]

The "Spurs Way" that started with Timmy Dunks and ended with Zaza....
is over.

No one has the magical answer but short of getting another ping pong ball bounce the idea that "We'll grow our own just like before" is gonzo.
Currently tied for 6th worst record and could easily descend to 5th.

The other 4 we are not going to out-tank even with Grandpa Senile still driving the car.

Primo is a total score. Someone in the Spurs scouting dept knows what the hell they are doing.
Can pick #5 get us another score? I like the track record.

I think that’s the general idea. I think they like what they see in Primo. DJM has improved beyond expectations. Vassell could be a good piece, a big cap space, assets to trade, tank this year to get a top 5, or maybe top 3 if they see somebody they like, and probably explains the horrific loss last night. Pop doesn’t care about these pundits. They just do what they do, the Spurs way.

[RC_Drunkford]

Everybody needs a star or at least 3 stars nowadays to contend. But the author is saying what everybody here in ST already knows. Spurs are not big on trading for one, but would rather groom their players to be one. Even when they traded George Hill. It was for the rights to draft Kawhi, and still it was not a sure deal. Some here would disagree :lol, Spurs had to mold Kawhi to the star player that he became. It’s frustrating somewhat as a fan when you wish the PATFO would just take a big swing at trading Simmons for example, or last Summer, offering for Collins, or taking a risk on drafting Jalen Johnson. Yet time and again, after the dust settles, their moves make more sense. Primo seems to be a great pick now, and why risk trading down the pick if you know who you really want and some other team might steal? I advocated trading Murray, and Co, for Simmons earlier the season. Heck, Murray is proving to be much much more. Doing a bid war on Collins? when the same player might be heading our way anyway (hopefully). Yes Spurs, like everybody else, needs a Star. It’s just the Spurs way is not like everybody else :bobo

yeah the Spurs way is to play 4 years without a capable power forward on the roster. Makes sense :lol They are clearly ahead of everybody else

[KingKev]

yeah the Spurs way is to play 4 years without a capable power forward on the roster. Makes sense :lol They are clearly ahead of everybody else

Basketball has become position-less. Spurs basketball has become height-less. Coach Pop is always one step ahead. :spin