Did we make a mistake with Derozan?

[kht]

Derozan is exactly what we needed this year. We have our athletes and shooters. We needed a go-to scorer/closer. We essentially swapped Derozan for Doug/Collins.

Derozan is currently putting up career numbers and is an All-Star starter. 18 straight games of 20+ points. 7 straight games of 35+ points and 50%+ shooting. Chicago is on a 5 game winning streak without Lavine, Lonzo, and Caruso.

Not to mention, he signed for 90M/3 years... if there was one player over 30 years old that the Spurs should have re-signed... not Richard Jefferson and Pau Gasol.

[exstatic]

Nope. He’s in a better situation, with multiple high level 3 point shooters and top perimeter defenders.

The reality is, it was time for him to go. DD led teams missed the playoffs two years in a row. The model wasn’t working, and the young guys needed minutes thatDD was burning in a losing cause.

Not. A. Mistake.

[kht]

Nope. He’s in a better situation, with multiple high level 3 point shooters and top perimeter defenders.

The reality is, it was time for him to go. DD led teams missed the playoffs two years in a row. The model wasn’t working, and the young guys needed minutes thatDD was burning in a losing cause.

Not. A. Mistake.

Murray, White, Keldon, and Poetl are good players. Not to mention second year Vassell.

[BacktoBasics]

No. Everyone is better off with him gone. He bottlenecked this team.

[Mr. Body]

No, and he wasn't staying anyway.

The team was stagnant with him. The team's biggest problem is being able to close and they need to figure out how to do it on their own.

[paperboy77]

As much as I was always for DD, it’s not a mistake that he’s gone. He was always just a place holder.

[Chinook]

The answer is it depends. The Spurs COULD have been aggressive putting talent around DeRozan, all the way from the year they traded for him. But if they were going to remain unwilling to do that, it didn't make sense to keep him. I can understand, on the whole, why the Spurs elected to not gamble on him as the main piece. I don't think it was undeniably the right decision, but there was a reason why the Raptors were willing to let him go.

DeMar, like Murray, is one of those players who has continued to improve long after most players see a drop off in their developmental curves. It's not fair to argue that this is the DeRozan the Spurs had had since the trade. I imagine had DeMar developed this much, Toronto would not have traded him. If the Spurs still got him for Leonard, then DMDR and LMA might have changed PATFO's mind and had them make another aggressive move for a third star, as they had planned to do with Leonard.

[poopbox]

No.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

no

san antonio didn't have the pieces to put around DDR to let him shine

i love watching derozan play (on offense) but he's much better off in CHI and spurs are better positioned as a result of the trade

[slick'81]

It still hurts,tbh

[MultiTroll]

No.
DD has a much better team which allows him to play better.
Lavine and Vucevic are all stars.
3 pointers way up compared to Spurs-Grandpa era.

[daslicer]

Spurs never built a good team around Demar. Vucevic and Lavine are better than anybody he got to play with while on the Spurs. I'm not sure DJ would have had a breakout year if Demar was still here.

[ismael-robert]

Did we make a mistake giving you posting privileges

[John B]

You have to cut ties to grow. Spurs are better off rebuilding for the long term. And Derozan might lead us to the playoffs just to be in trounced in the 1st round every year. It was time.

[duncan2k5]

Fuck no... He doesn't move the needle... He missed the playoffs 2 years in a row in a weak west... And keep in mind the playoffs still exist... We have seen him play like an all star in Toronto only to choke his ass off in the playoffs

[rudwick]

It doesn’t matter. Moving forward!
We stacked!

[tmtcsc]

Yes, the Spurs absolutely made a mistake with Demar. They never should've traded Kawhi for him. Chicago fans will see the real DD come playoff time. Not a winner.

[spurs1990]

I can’t believe his offensive numbers these last seven games. Where the hell was that derozan the last three years

[DAF86]

I really can't believe this question is asked.

No.

[tbdog]

Spurs should have committed to ddr a season earlier. Lma fell off the cliff and they held onto him for too long. It is what it is.

[RC_Drunkford]

it's almost like people who ask these questions don't understand basketball. You can't play DeRozan with Poeltl at Center and mediocre 3-point shooters at the guard spots

[exstatic]

Murray, White, Keldon, and Poetl are good players. Not to mention second year Vassell.

None of them shoot the 3 pointer at a decent rate except Keldon, and in fact White No longer plays here.

[r0drig0lac]

in team building? yes, but we did the same with the superstar who played for the team a few years earlier, so it's kind of a pattern.




Did we make a mistake giving you posting privileges

lol

[sporter121]

it's almost like people who ask these questions don't understand basketball. You can't play DeRozan with Poeltl at Center and mediocre 3-point shooters at the guard spots

We had good three point shooter and the Spurs let them walk out the door or get next to nothing in return.

Patty Mills (walked out the door)

Bryn Forbes (a 2026 2nd round draft pick and a guys that they never intended to play and cut shortly after the trade)

Both good three point shooters.

The Spurs are in a rebuilding mode because they choose to go this route.

Having De Rozon, Mills, and Forbes on the team would not stunt the development of the players that are losing games for us now. Pop would have had time to work with them to develop them as we remained competitive rather than throwing these young guys into the fire when they are not ready as their record in the standings shows that they are not.

[couchman]

I feel like I was one of the few around here that wanted to keep DDR, but I also see the benefit of letting him go.
Demar is a great scorer but gosh he’s so bad on defense and he needs the ball in his hands a lot.
No way DJM has the year he is having if Demar is still here.
And we turned him into 2 FRPs? Not bad

[stnick2261]

Murray, White, Keldon, and Poetl are good players. Not to mention second year Vassell.

Murray wouldn't be an all-star this year with Derozan still here. Yeah,we lost DDR... but we traded him for this year's Raptor's FRP, Lakers' SRP, '25 Bulls FRP & SRP... and allowed Murray and other guards to grow... AND contributed to our own top draft pick this year.

[duncan2k5]

We had good three point shooter and the Spurs let them walk out the door or get next to nothing in return.

Patty Mills (walked out the door)

Bryn Forbes (a 2026 2nd round draft pick and a guys that they never intended to play and cut shortly after the trade)

Both good three point shooters.

The Spurs are in a rebuilding mode because they choose to go this route.

Having De Rozon, Mills, and Forbes on the team would not stunt the development of the players that are losing games for us now. Pop would have had time to work with them to develop them as we remained competitive rather than throwing these young guys into the fire when they are not ready as their record in the standings shows that they are not.

We had them on the team for several years and made the lottery... We are better off without him

[duncan2k5]

Murray wouldn't be an all-star this year with Derozan still here. Yeah,we lost DDR... but we traded him for this year's Raptor's FRP, Lakers' SRP, '25 Bulls FRP & SRP... and allowed Murray and other guards to grow... AND contributed to our own top draft pick this year.

Exactly... We might end up in the same exact position we were in when we did have him, except now we have a brighter future, and an all star... He couldn't even make the all star team last year... Murray has made his teammates significantly better than DDR made them all the years he was here

[Leetonidas]

We already had 3 seasons of demar leading us nowhere. The Bulls have much better personnel around him. DJ would not have taken the same step with demar isoing the entire time.

Yall have such short memories :lol regular season demar was never a problem. Just wait until the playoffs when he's melting down over officiating and shooting 35%

[Uriel]

DeRozan has been thriving ever since he left the Spurs for the Bulls.

White has been thriving ever since he left the Spurs for the Celtics.

It's almost as if our best players perform better when placed in a different environment.

[duncan2k5]

DeRozan has been thriving ever since he left the Spurs for the Bulls.

White has been thriving ever since he left the Spurs for the Celtics.

It's almost as if our best players perform better when placed in a different environment.

The Bulls would have been a great team even without DDR... have u seen their roster? Any competent wing would thrive on that team... And White is just as inconsistent on the Celtics as he was here... Last game he was 3/10 in a loss to the trash ass Pistons

[Leetonidas]

DeRozan has been thriving ever since he left the Spurs for the Bulls.

White has been thriving ever since he left the Spurs for the Celtics.

It's almost as if our best players perform better when placed in a different environment.

it's almost as if players tend to play better when surrounded by better players (Bulls) or are put into situations where they have two elite wings to pass to (Celtics) and dont need to focus on scoring. who would have thought? :wow

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

White hasn't been thriving on the Celtics, tbh. I know they've been winning but his numbers have been significantly worse , albeit on a small sample size.

[BatManu20]

No.

And if it’s any consolation, the Bulls aren’t going to win a Championship with DeMar. And neither were we.

[tmtcsc]

If Demar is shooting more 3's with the Bulls, it just shows you what a selfish punk-ass he was while he was here. The coaching staff pleaded with him to shoot more 3's to help the team and he didn't want to. He said he could, mind you, but chose not to. F that dude. I got tired of his ass playing crappy defense, dominating the ball and making terrible decisions on the court. Shooting 2's when they needed 3's, not passing in the final moments of the game, turning the ball over in big situations, etc. Demar was all about Demar in terms of basketball. Off the court he seems like a nice enough guy, but who cares?

[MultiTroll]

The Bulls would have been a great team even without DDR... have u seen their roster? Any competent wing would thrive on that team... And White is just as inconsistent on the Celtics as he was here... Last game he was 3/10 in a loss to the trash ass Pistons


White hasn't been thriving on the Celtics, tbh. I know they've been winning but his numbers have been significantly worse , albeit on a small sample size.
Costing me a 6 team parlay.
With the Celtics on Moneyline no less.
Only needed to win the damn game.

White not impressive. At all.

[SPURt]

Murray wouldn't be an all-star this year with Derozan still here. Yeah,we lost DDR... but we traded him for this year's Raptor's FRP, Lakers' SRP, '25 Bulls FRP & SRP... and allowed Murray and other guards to grow... AND contributed to our own top draft pick this year.
Great post, to all those asking “where was this DD when he was with the Spurs?”, has Pop’s system ever been so centered around 1 player that they would get enough volume to average 35 pts a game 10 games in a row? DJM is exactly the type of player that can be one of the main pieces in SA. He changes the game in every facet while also putting up 20+ pts a game. Timmy and Kawhi were the same way. Take away DD’s points and how else is he changing a game?

[RC_Drunkford]

We had good three point shooter and the Spurs let them walk out the door or get next to nothing in return.

Patty Mills (walked out the door)

Bryn Forbes (a 2026 2nd round draft pick and a guys that they never intended to play and cut shortly after the trade)

Both good three point shooters.

The Spurs are in a rebuilding mode because they choose to go this route.

Having De Rozon, Mills, and Forbes on the team would not stunt the development of the players that are losing games for us now. Pop would have had time to work with them to develop them as we remained competitive rather than throwing these young guys into the fire when they are not ready as their record in the standings shows that they are not.

:lmao

so your starting line up would be Gay/DeRozan/Keldon/Forbes/Mills

I'm sure that gets you to the playoffs :lmao

[RC_Drunkford]

Great post, to all those asking “where was this DD when he was with the Spurs?”, has Pop’s system ever been so centered around 1 player that they would get enough volume to average 35 pts a game 10 games in a row? DJM is exactly the type of player that can be one of the main pieces in SA. He changes the game in every facet while also putting up 20+ pts a game. Timmy and Kawhi were the same way. Take away DD’s points and how else is he changing a game?

he actually had a Jordan level efficiency stretch when Aldridge started shooting 3s, but everybody here forgot about it

[cd98]

Demar thriving with the Bulls? Oh no. He was just as good here as he is in Chicago. The difference is he has talent around him in Chicago and in SA he had LMA with a heart problem and out of shape and he had a bunch of young players that were not that good and no three point shooting. He got a rep in Toronto that people labeled him here for as well, but he was a high quality player here and fun to watch. At times, he was the only watchable Spur. I'm glad he's getting his due in Chicago.

He is a great player. Not a superstar capable of carrying a team of 20 year olds to the playoffs. But good enough that if you surround him with talent, he can make deep runs in the playoffs if Lebron is not in his way.

[Ozballer]

Yes, in bringing him in to the Spurs in the first place..

[itzsoweezee]

People really have short memories. Good riddance to Demar. What the Spurs needed this year was a bunch of playing time for their young guys and a bad record to get a high lottery pick. Both goals look to be right on track.

[DAF86]

DeRozan is regular season fools gold. You can't build around him and be serious about contending.

Also, Murray wouldn't be the player he is now with DeRozan around. Moving away from him was the right move.

[Proxy]

Yeah, you know when you think about it, we should've traded everyone except Demar for the current Chicago roster instead

[sporter121]

:lmao

so your starting line up would be Gay/DeRozan/Keldon/Forbes/Mills

I'm sure that gets you to the playoffs :lmao


A better starting lineup would be

Dejante Murry = PG
Demar DeRozon - SG
Jakob Poetle = C
Keldon Johnson = PF
Zach Collins = SF

Off the bench (Small ball with the players that we woulds have)
Patty Mills
Josh Primo
Thadeus Young (or Goran Dragic if the trade had happened)
Doug McDermont
Devin Vassel

Mistakes
This does not include Derrick White who was also traded. (15 point a game scorer) We got John Richardson averaging 12 points a game. Romero Langford averaging 3.6 points a game.
So we got two guy that average the same as Derrick White was. Basically losing a roster spot.
Lonnie Walker - Streaky at best - Maybe he should had been in that trade instead.

Bryn Forbes trade
Thadeus Young / Demar DeRozon Trade - Gave up a 24 point per game scorer for a player you never used.

[KingKev]

A better starting lineup would be

Dejante Murry = PG
Demar DeRozon - SG
Jakob Poetle = C
Keldon Johnson = PF
Zach Collins = SF

Off the bench (Small ball with the players that we woulds have)
Patty Mills
Josh Primo
Thadeus Young (or Goran Dragic if the trade had happened)
Doug McDermont
Devin Vassel

Mistakes
This does not include Derrick White who was also traded. (15 point a game scorer) We got John Richardson averaging 12 points a game. Romero Langford averaging 3.6 points a game.
So we got two guy that average the same as Derrick White was. Basically losing a roster spot.
Lonnie Walker - Streaky at best - Maybe he should had been in that trade instead.

Bryn Forbes trade
Thadeus Young / Demar DeRozon Trade - Gave up a 24 point per game scorer for a player you never used.

Zach Collins isn’t a SF.

[exstatic]

We had good three point shooter and the Spurs let them walk out the door or get next to nothing in return.

Patty Mills (walked out the door)

Bryn Forbes (a 2026 2nd round draft pick and a guys that they never intended to play and cut shortly after the trade)

Both good three point shooters.

The Spurs are in a rebuilding mode because they choose to go this route.

Having De Rozon, Mills, and Forbes on the team would not stunt the development of the players that are losing games for us now. Pop would have had time to work with them to develop them as we remained competitive rather than throwing these young guys into the fire when they are not ready as their record in the standings shows that they are not.

Mills, Forbes, and yes, DeRozan were all poor defenders. Competitive? We haven’t been competitive since Kawhi bitched out. We missed the playoffs the last two seasons with DeRozan and Mills, and the first of those with your three saviors two seasons ago. If you’re going to lose, play and develop the youngsters.

[Proxy]

:lol Zach Collins at SF

[Biggems]

He need to go. He was a choke fest here. We are still choking those year, but as a team, not cause of a one man black hole. Maybe, we will get it out of our system and find a couple of players who can close out a 4th Q.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

:lol @ this thread.

[RC_Drunkford]

A better starting lineup would be

Dejante Murry = PG
Demar DeRozon - SG
Jakob Poetle = C
Keldon Johnson = PF
Zach Collins = SF

Off the bench (Small ball with the players that we woulds have)
Patty Mills
Josh Primo
Thadeus Young (or Goran Dragic if the trade had happened)
Doug McDermont
Devin Vassel

Mistakes
This does not include Derrick White who was also traded. (15 point a game scorer) We got John Richardson averaging 12 points a game. Romero Langford averaging 3.6 points a game.
So we got two guy that average the same as Derrick White was. Basically losing a roster spot.
Lonnie Walker - Streaky at best - Maybe he should had been in that trade instead.

Bryn Forbes trade
Thadeus Young / Demar DeRozon Trade - Gave up a 24 point per game scorer for a player you never used.

you clearly don't understand basketball nor spacing. You can't play Poeltl and DeRozan. You can't play Zach Collins and Poeltl. That team would be in the same seed this team is right now

[stnick2261]

http://nbashotcharts.com/raw?id=2002134599

Last year, Murray, Derozan & Poeltl combined to attempt 56% midrange shots, 32% at the rim, and 12% 3pt shots. That's 2129 out of 5498 total shots our the year. Those 3 took 39% of the total team shots and they were all congested in the same area.

[spurs10]

He wasn't staying and wanted a chance to play in the playoffs. Good luck to him.

[Ice009]

Yeah, umm, the mistake was that we didn't trade him earlier.

[KingKev]

Yeah, umm, the mistake was that we didn't trade him earlier.

haha seriously. It was best everyone went their separate ways. I don’t think DDR was coming back for under a max deal.

[slick'81]

The only mistake was not trading him sooner and maximizing his value via trade

[daslicer]

bweWbzf_G6A

[Ice009]

Unbelievable. He's channeling the some sort of spirit there. Maybe Kobe could have done the same thing if he went to Chicago years ago when he was thinking of leaving the Lakers.

[slick'81]

Imagine if both chi/tor rings after trading with sa

[Texas_Ranger]

I wont be impressed until i see this playoff choker actually step up in the playoffs.

[james evans]

We didn't make a mistake with defrozen because he simply just couldn't play under popovich. Simple as that. And we don't have the personnel that Chicago has.

[james evans]

I wont be impressed until i see this playoff choker actually step up in the playoffs.
we all know what's coming

[BatManu20]

Another 20+ point loss tonight. Bulls are now 2-20 vs top 4 teams in either conferences, and have lost 14 of their last 20 games. Awful. They’ll be swept in the First Round. Gentleman’s Sweep if they’re lucky.


1511893262835097600

[Dejounte]

Apparently the situation in Chicago is so good that there’s no chance Zach will leave

[KingKev]

Apparently the situation in Chicago is so good that there’s no chance Zach will leave

It’s still very small. Everything to date he is communicated ao far is he wants to stay and has allided to being worth max money. He is potentially eligible to the super max if he makes an all-NBA team. If the Bulls don’t offer him full max he might get pissed and look elsewhere.

Bulls have had a ton of injuries this year, they are still a decent team despite that stat above and their recent slump.

[Texas_Ranger]

Have the Bulls defeated any good team this year? They are lucky that the Cavs had all those injuries, cause they'd probably be in the play in tournament.

[SpurSpike]

Have the Bulls defeated any good team this year? They are lucky that the Cavs had all those injuries, cause they'd probably be in the play in tournament.

I read somewhere recently that the Bulls are 2/20 vs playoff teams this year...

[exstatic]

I read somewhere recently that the Bulls are 2/20 vs playoff teams this year...

VS top 4 in both conferences.

[CGD]

Excited for that 2025 pick!

[baseline bum]

Wow a DeRozan led team that can't beat the good teams and fades in March and April? Who would have ever guessed?

[Ocotillo]

anti-SPAM, DDAM, Derozan declines after March

[offset formation]

Wow a DeRozan led team that can't beat the good teams and fades in March and April? Who would have ever guessed?

A few games more and they would have been in the play-in, and potentially not even make the playoffs. Insane for a team that was in first shortly before the Allstar break.

[KingKev]

I never wanted anything todo with DDR but in his defence the Bulls have been dealing with a fair amount of injuries this season.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The Spurs and DeRozan are better without each other. Addition by subtraction.

[tbdog]

Bulls were gutted with injuries. DDR abd Vuc stayed healthy. Vuc looks bad this year.

[BatManu20]

Bulls down 30 at halftime to the Hornets at home when all their starters are playing :lol.

[BatManu20]

They’re the worst defensive playoff team and it’s not close.

[Kurik]

Bulls down 30 at halftime to the Hornets at home when all their starters are playing :lol.

Looking forward to the future draft picks from that team.

[timtonymanu]

So glad Derozan never came back

[SupremeGuy]

The mistake we made was getting him and not Siakam.

[exstatic]

The mistake we made was getting him and not Siakam.

You act as though there was a choice.

[John B]

You act as though there was a choice.

In retrospect? I think so. I think Morey showed teams how to deal with divas, whether you like Harden or not. He’s the caliber player Morey wanted in return for his disgruntled diva who was not cooperating. He stuck with it and got his guy. I think Masai would’ve give in more getting a rare chance of a top 3 player. Would’ve, could’ve. Spurs unfortunately don’t play hardball, imo, always doing the “noble thing” for the players. But to answer your question. I think yes Spurs had a choice.

[exstatic]

In retrospect? I think so. I think Morey showed teams how to deal with divas, whether you like Harden or not. He’s the caliber player Morey wanted in return for his disgruntled diva who was not cooperating. He stuck with it and got his guy. I think Masai would’ve give in more getting a rare chance of a top 3 player. Would’ve, could’ve. Spurs unfortunately don’t play hardball, imo, always doing the “noble thing” for the players. But to answer your question. I think yes Spurs had a choice.

Morey got a fat malcontent who’s game is falling off a cliff.

[Dex]

Morey got a fat malcontent who’s game is falling off a cliff.

I can't wait for Harden to stink it up in the playoffs agin, Philly is going to fail, and then Doc is going to get fired because he couldn't carry them to the Finals.

Then Harden will probably demand another trade.

[Leetonidas]

In retrospect? I think so. I think Morey showed teams how to deal with divas, whether you like Harden or not. He’s the caliber player Morey wanted in return for his disgruntled diva who was not cooperating. He stuck with it and got his guy. I think Masai would’ve give in more getting a rare chance of a top 3 player. Would’ve, could’ve. Spurs unfortunately don’t play hardball, imo, always doing the “noble thing” for the players. But to answer your question. I think yes Spurs had a choice.

It's actually starting to look like Philly got fleeced in that deal. Harden has played like garbage down the stretch and his first step just isnt there anymore, he isnt going to be 2019 Harden ever again. They gave up Simmons, picks, an elite shooter in Curry and a good backup to Embiid for fat/declining Harden who is going to get a 240M max extension this summer :lmao

Should have just taken CJ/Norm or whatever from Portland. McCollum has been a beast for the Pelicans and is exactly the kind of player Embiid needs next to him, not a dude whose only move is dribbling the air of the ball and going into a stepback 3 or flailing around for fouls. Philly is going to regret that trade big time very soon, just wait imo

[south side spur]

In retrospect? I think so. I think Morey showed teams how to deal with divas, whether you like Harden or not. He’s the caliber player Morey wanted in return for his disgruntled diva not cooperating. I think Masai would’ve give in more getting a rare chance of a top 3 player. Would’ve, could’ve. Spurs don’t play hardball, imo, always doing the “noble thing” for the players. But to answer your question. I think yes Spurs had a choice.

Morey showed teams it’s possible to trade one disgruntled player for another disgruntled player. What other player of Kawhi’s caliber was disgruntled at the time? None. Morey just got lucky because that king’s ransom he wanted for Simmons was rejected by all. Now you’re right though the Spurs didn’t play hardball and I was upset about that but there was never going to be a trade that was fair. We have hindsight though and all the people complaining at the time saying we got taken to the cleaners? Look at KJ’s ascension. No Kawhi knob slobber at the time wanted to even consider he would be playing at this level. He could very well become an All Star.

Then there’s this years Toronto pick which is basically a product of the Kawhi deal. Who knows maybe the Spurs land another KJ type diamond in the rough. Maybe they whiff again on a Samanic type. We’ll see. What about the Bulls 1st in 2025? Another product of DeRozan Kawhi deal. It’s all hypothetical and I know you’re not arguing this point but as time goes on the Kawhi trade looks better and better no one can deny this. Only Kawhidiot sycophants.

The point is that the Spurs have found draft talent on Kawhi’s level before and it’s realistic to expect them to at least find one more player. Even Kawhi himself was developed over time. This is something the Spurs have done before so to act like a player similar to Kawhi’s level can’t be found in the draft and developed over 5 years again is really giving him way too much credit.

[Leetonidas]

The other thing people tend to forget in the Kawhi discussion is that he was coming off a season where he only played 9 games and no one knew wtf was wrong with him. Had everyone known he could play they would have offered more. but him hamming it up for a season and the question marks surrounding his health coupled with The Group making it known he only wanted to be in LA killed his trade value. Simmons never said he wouldnt play anywhere, he basically said he'd play in 29 other cities besides Philly. Not the same situation at all

[Roxsfan]

I can't wait for Harden to stink it up in the playoffs agin, Philly is going to fail, and then Doc is going to get fired because he couldn't carry them to the Finals.

Then Harden will probably demand another trade.

Ha ha. I have to update my sig pic tbh.

[John B]

Morey showed teams it’s possible to trade one disgruntled player for another disgruntled player. What other player of Kawhi’s caliber was disgruntled at the time? None. Morey just got lucky because that king’s ransom he wanted for Simmons was rejected by all. Now you’re right though the Spurs didn’t play hardball and I was upset about that but there was never going to be a trade that was fair. We have hindsight though and all the people complaining at the time saying we got taken to the cleaners? Look at KJ’s ascension. No Kawhi knob slobber at the time wanted to even consider he would be playing at this level. He could very well become an All Star.

Then there’s this years Toronto pick which is basically a product of the Kawhi deal. Who knows maybe the Spurs land another KJ type diamond in the rough. Maybe they whiff again on a Samanic type. We’ll see. What about the Bulls 1st in 2025? Another product of DeRozan Kawhi deal. It’s all hypothetical and I know you’re not arguing this point but as time goes on the Kawhi trade looks better and better no one can deny this. Only Kawhidiot sycophants.

The point is that the Spurs have found draft talent on Kawhi’s level before and it’s realistic to expect them to at least find one more player. Even Kawhi himself was developed over time. This is something the Spurs have done before so to act like a player similar to Kawhi’s level can’t be found in the draft and developed over 5 years again is really giving him way too much credit.

Nope I’m not arguing about the result. And I agree that we are seeing more good assets and picks coming out from that trade. My point was, did the Spurs have a choice? Yes! As Morey has shown, teams can play hardballs with these divas. Which is what I wish Spurs would do in the future, hopefully not finding themselves in the same position though.

[Drom John]

What other player of Kawhi’s caliber was disgruntled at the time? None.

At the time, I wanted Butler.

[Ariel]

My point was, did the Spurs have a choice? Yes! As Morey has shown, teams can play hardballs with these divas. Which is what I wish Spurs would do in the future, hopefully not finding themselves in the same position though.
The one BIG difference is that the Sixers had Simmons tied for FOUR MORE YEARS, while Kawhi was ONE YEAR REMOVED FROM FREE AGENCY. That makes all the difference in the world.
Oh... and I don't like the Kawhi - DeRozan trade either :lol

[BatManu20]

5/23 so far tonight and shooting his team out of a very winnable game on the road :lol


Demar DeFrozen is back.

[Leetonidas]

6-25 for 18 points in 43 minutes tonight in the Bulls loss :lol

[Ariel]

https://i.ibb.co/Jq28Sqr/great-trade.png

[spurs1990]

1515860495277993987

[dbestpro]

6-25 for 18 points in 43 minutes tonight in the Bulls loss :lol
Vintage playoff DeRozan.

[CGD]

1515860495277993987

Damn, they murdered him

[Dex]

6-25 for 18 points in 43 minutes tonight in the Bulls loss :lol

Playoff DeMar is back in action!!

[Ice009]

As much as people are trashing Kawhi right now, even an injured Kawhi is a superior player to DeMar. Even though Kawhi's load managed during the past 3 seasons he's played, his teams have been Championship contenders all three of those seasons, and in the games Kawhi did play, he did actually play very well in most of them.

As for trades, the only player I wanted back then was Anthony Davis, but he wasn't disgruntled. Drom John mentioned Jimmy Butler, and I would have been happy with him, but I don't think that trade was possible. Looking back at it after seeing how Ingram has played last season and this season, I kind of wish the Spurs made an effort to actually talk to the Lakers about a legit deal between the two teams.

[rascal]

Spurs didn't get enough in the Kawhi trade. They took too long to unload him and his value dropped.

They didn't get enough back in the DD trade either.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Spurs didn't get enough in the Kawhi trade. They took too long to unload him and his value dropped.

They didn't get enough back in the DD trade either.

In the case of Kawhi, the Spurs weren't used to their franchise player having a bruised vagina. Can't judge them too harshly for not knowing how to deal with that.

[SuperCam]

should have taken ingram over defrozan tbh

[spurraider21]

should have taken ingram over defrozan tbh
:lmao cam replaced by birdgewater and darnold

[BatManu20]

Gotta give credit where credit is due. DeMar had a great bounce-back game tonight. 41/7/4/2/2 on 16/31 shooting in a big road win in Milwaukee. Good shit DeMar.

1516996307625431040

[The Truth #6]

Probably one of his top games of all time. But man, he really dominates the ball. Caruso is a solid player, especially on defense, but he gets relegated to a minimal role as the point guard and never touches the ball, which is funny to me.

[TDomination]

good game by DeRozan and the Bulls. must feel good to finally have a good playoff outing.

[exstatic]

As much as people are trashing Kawhi right now, even an injured Kawhi is a superior player to DeMar. Even though Kawhi's load managed during the past 3 seasons he's played, his teams have been Championship contenders all three of those seasons, and in the games Kawhi did play, he did actually play very well in most of them.

As for trades, the only player I wanted back then was Anthony Davis, but he wasn't disgruntled. Drom John mentioned Jimmy Butler, and I would have been happy with him, but I don't think that trade was possible. Looking back at it after seeing how Ingram has played last season and this season, I kind of wish the Spurs made an effort to actually talk to the Lakers about a legit deal between the two teams.

Why would they talk to the Lakers, after Magic CLEARLY was tampering with Kawhi’s group? Clear Beta Move. Catch guys robbing your house, and help them pack your stuff? I don’t think so.

[exstatic]

As much as people are trashing Kawhi right now, even an injured Kawhi is a superior player to DeMar. Even though Kawhi's load managed during the past 3 seasons he's played, his teams have been Championship contenders all three of those seasons, and in the games Kawhi did play, he did actually play very well in most of them.

As for trades, the only player I wanted back then was Anthony Davis, but he wasn't disgruntled. Drom John mentioned Jimmy Butler, and I would have been happy with him, but I don't think that trade was possible. Looking back at it after seeing how Ingram has played last season and this season, I kind of wish the Spurs made an effort to actually talk to the Lakers about a legit deal between the two teams.

I haven’t seenANYONE trashing Kawhi’s game, just saying he’s a shit person.

[exstatic]

Spurs didn't get enough in the Kawhi trade. They took too long to unload him and his value dropped.

They didn't get enough back in the DD trade either.

From Kawhi, we got 3 years of DeMar, 4 years of Jak, plus possible assets in a future trade, Keldon, and two additional FRPs.

How much did you expect to get back in a sign and trade for DD, an unrestricted FA? I mean, we got two FRPs and two SRPs, so perhaps your expectations don’t reside in reality.

[rastaspur]

Not a mistake. It would have been like trying to shove a square peg into a circular hole. Wasn't the right fit with the roster on hand.

Happy for the guy and his best season yet but I'm not losing any sleep over it and no one else should either.

[Leetonidas]

Middleton has a sprained MCL. Bucks might be in trouble

[rjv]

good game by DeRozan and the Bulls. must feel good to finally have a good playoff outing.

happy for demar. he's definitely benefiting from a solid supporting cast-probably not enough of one to get to the finals, but at least he's enjoying some level of success.

[rjv]

Middleton has a sprained MCL. Bucks might be in trouble

heard that they're 25-22 when they are missing at least one of their big three so yeah. on the other hand, they've owned the bulls lately. at the very least, this is going to be very difficult for the bucks and giannis and holiday are going to have play huge.

[KingKev]

From Kawhi, we got 3 years of DeMar, 4 years of Jak, plus possible assets in a future trade, Keldon, and two additional FRPs.

How much did you expect to get back in a sign and trade for DD, an unrestricted FA? I mean, we got two FRPs and two SRPs, so perhaps your expectations don’t reside in reality.

I will never agree with you on this. Also, remember Danny Green and 5mm cash went to Toronto in that trade. There were better deals to be made if Pop was capable of swallowing his pride.

[KobesAchilles]

DeRozan about to knock off the defending champs :wow

[R. DeMurre]

DeRozan scored well in the first three quarters, but he was not good in the 4th. Without Caruso, the Bulls don't pull that game out.

[Ariel]

DeRozan about to knock off the defending champs :wow
Huh? Are they not tied 1-1? Or am I missing something?

[8FOR!3]

Kawhi sitting at home feeling sorry for himself while DeRozan drops 41 in a playoff game. Can't say I hate to see it...

[SAGirl]

Should never have treaded for him to begin with, Spurs should have done the rebuild thing years ago when the good players in the team still had value (LMA and Danny), traded Kawhi for a package of youngins and Ingram and go a couple years getting guys in the draft. They probably would be in a better shape right now. Said it at the time. Those Derozan years wouldn’t amount to anything.

[slick'81]

Only mistake spurs made was not trading derozan sooner.

[baseline bum]

Middleton has a sprained MCL. Bucks might be in trouble

Ugh between this and the Booker injury it's like the seas are parting to gift Philly a title.

[baseline bum]

I will never agree with you on this. Also, remember Danny Green and 5mm cash went to Toronto in that trade. There were better deals to be made if Pop was capable of swallowing his pride.

Man, Philly wouldn't even give up Fultz. Lotta trash offers with Leonard sabotaging shit. Wish they would have just kept him and suspended without pay like the Sixers did with Simmons.

[JPB]

I will never agree with you on this. Also, remember Danny Green and 5mm cash went to Toronto in that trade. There were better deals to be made if Pop was capable of swallowing his pride.

Just curious, which trades? Potential suitors were lowballing the spurs because of Nephew uncertain health status and eveyone knew he wanted out to go to LA as a FA the next year... Toronto basically traded for one year of KL and a title.

[KingKev]

Man, Philly wouldn't even give up Fultz. Lotta trash offers with Leonard sabotaging shit. Wish they would have just kept him and suspended without pay like the Sixers did with Simmons.

Pop’s stubbornness was just as detrimental to the next 5 yrs as Leonard’s fuckery. Pop would have traded Nephew to Siberia for a bottle of wine if he could have. It was always about trying to FK Kawhi and not entertaining our enemies fair to low ball offers. Leonard flipped the script on him, went to Toronto and got lucky. We got 3 yrs of fking DDR. Maestro Pop stood tall for his “principles” and made 11m/yr along the way.

[JPB]

Pop’s stubbornness was just as detrimental to the next 5 yrs as Leonard’s fuckery. Pop would have traded Nephew to Siberia for a bottle of wine if he could have. It was always about trying to FK Kawhi and not entertaining our enemies fair to low ball offers. Leonard flipped the script on him, went to Toronto and got lucky. We got 3 yrs of fking DDR. Maestro Pop stood tall for his “principles” and made 11m/yr along the way.

Yeah not like they traded him to the future champion.

[KingKev]

Yeah not like they traded him to the future champion.

Not sure what you are arguing here. Raps don’t win that series if the Warriors don’t lose TWO future HOFers in the final/ but Pop’s move was banishing Leonard to Toronto, the front office relationships made it easier.

[stnick2261]

Trading Derozan away was definitely not a mistake. We got good return for that. But we never should have had him.

Either make Leonard play the '18-19 season with LMA and compete for a title or...

Sit out and not get paid. Trade LMA at his peak because he was unhappy at the time, but still all-star level. Tank that season and draft Zion Williamson or Ja Morant. We'd miss out on Luka Samanic in that draft, but Keldon Johnson may have still been available a couple spots later with our 2nd pick. Group that with whatever we get for LMA in trade and we have the beginning of a nice rebuild. We already had Murray on the team by that point.

[baseline bum]

Pop’s stubbornness was just as detrimental to the next 5 yrs as Leonard’s fuckery. Pop would have traded Nephew to Siberia for a bottle of wine if he could have. It was always about trying to FK Kawhi and not entertaining our enemies fair to low ball offers. Leonard flipped the script on him, went to Toronto and got lucky. We got 3 yrs of fking DDR. Maestro Pop stood tall for his “principles” and made 11m/yr along the way.

Fair offer lol what a load

[spurs1990]

DeRozan scored well in the first three quarters, but he was not good in the 4th. Without Caruso, the Bulls don't pull that game out.

hmmm interesting. When you look at boxscores only, one doesn't see the complete picture. I can't stomach watching Derozan play after having to endure 3 years of his midrange theatrics, so appreciate the insight :toast

[R. DeMurre]

Should never have treaded for him to begin with, Spurs should have done the rebuild thing years ago when the good players in the team still had value (LMA and Danny), traded Kawhi for a package of youngins and Ingram and go a couple years getting guys in the draft. They probably would be in a better shape right now. Said it at the time. Those Derozan years wouldn’t amount to anything.


Exactly... that was the post-Timmy move that frustrated me the most, the Spurs thinking they'd outperform a league focused on high value + high percentage shots by blitzing them with two midrange guys. It was a bad plan from the start, and clearly didn't have even a whiff of success.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Fair offer lol what a load

Yep. We were getting sh!t offers for Kawhi. Sending him east was the right move.

[baseline bum]

Yep. We were getting sh!t offers for Kawhi. Sending him east was the right move.

Yeah Spurs never got anything approaching the offer New Orleans got for Davis from the Lakers since the Pelicans got the #4 pick as part of the deal. A Lakers first would have been late 20s with LeBron and Leonard teamed up.

[KingKev]

Saw a stat on Bleacher today. DDR has the all time worst -/+ in playoff history; after last night’s win.

[rascal]

From Kawhi, we got 3 years of DeMar, 4 years of Jak, plus possible assets in a future trade, Keldon, and two additional FRPs.

How much did you expect to get back in a sign and trade for DD, an unrestricted FA? I mean, we got two FRPs and two SRPs, so perhaps your expectations don’t reside in reality.

They should have tried a trade package deal with Cleveland in 2018 for Leonard( as Cleveland still had James at the time and bringing in Leonard might have kept James in Cleveland) to get that 8th pick and draft Mikal Bridges there. I'd rather have Bridges now. There were other options that the spurs did not pursue on draft day because they were still trying to see if they could keep Leonard, moved too slow in trading him. I heard they were not actively pursuing on their own trades but just listening what other teams were offering. They were not assertive and waited too long to trade Leonard and the market dried up into the deal they accepted.

[rascal]

Saw a stat on Bleacher today. DDR has the all time worst -/+ in playoff history; after last night’s win.

-/+ are overrated

[rascal]

Yep. We were getting sh!t offers for Kawhi. Sending him east was the right move.

They could have got two picks from The Clippers 12 and 13 and worked a deal with Philly's 10th pick and get Bridges there. Bridges should have been their target in that draft because he could have been had.

[baseline bum]

They could have got two picks from The Clippers 13 and 14 and worked a deal with Philly's 10th pick and get Bridges there. Bridges should have been their target in that draft because he could have been had.

The Clippers offer was only one pick and Harris' contract. Couldn't have gotten Bridges or SGA with that.

[rascal]

The Clippers offer was only one pick and Harris' contract. Couldn't have gotten Bridges or SGA with that.

No it was two picks. Then I saw the other offer too.

[baseline bum]

They should have tried a trade package deal with Cleveland in 2018 for Leonard( as Cleveland still had James at the time and bringing in Leonard might have kept James in Cleveland) to get that 8th pick and draft Mikal Bridges there. I'd rather have Bridges now. There were other options that the spurs did not pursue on draft day because they were still trying to see if they could keep Leonard, moved too slow in trading him. I heard they were not actively pursuing on their own trades but just listening what other teams were offering. They were not assertive and waited too long to trade Leonard and the market dried up into the deal they accepted.

Cleveland wasn't trading picks to keep LeBron there, they knew he was gone (and Gilbert actually welcomed it), and knew Leonard would have fled too.

[baseline bum]

No it was two picks. Then I saw the other offer too.

Clippers never offered both picks, that was wishful thinking from Spurs fans.

[rascal]

Clippers never offered both picks, that was wishful thinking from Spurs fans.

If the Spurs really wanted to make a trade they could have for those picks but they didn't want to make a trade. Those picks were on the table but the spurs had no interest in a trade at the time of the draft.
They only made the trade later when they were forced into a deal.

[baseline bum]

If the Spurs really wanted to make a trade they could have for those picks but they didn't want to make a trade. Those picks were on the table but the spurs had no interest in a trade at the time of the draft.
They only made the trade later when they were forced into a deal.

Don't know why you're so hung up on Bridges anyways. Good defender and nice supporting guy, but not someone you're building your team around. Not like we were talking Booker or something. SGA was the only allstar talent available around that #10 spot.

[rascal]

Cleveland wasn't trading picks to keep LeBron there, they knew he was gone (and Gilbert actually welcomed it), and knew Leonard would have fled too.

Again the Spurs were not sold yet that they had to trade Leonard so I never heard or saw anywhere that they even pursued a trade with Cleveland. I saw where the Spurs were not actively pursuing trading Leonard around draft time but just listening to offers. The Spurs were not assertive in getting the best deal and that time was in and around draft time and only traded when they had to.

[baseline bum]

Again the Spurs were not sold yet that they had to trade Leonard so I never heard or saw anywhere that they even pursued a trade with Cleveland. I saw where the Spurs were not actively pursuing trading Leonard around draft time but just listening to offers. The Spurs were not assertive in getting the best deal and that time was in and around draft time and only traded when they had to.

Cleveland was not trading that pick. Gilbert was sick of LeBron running the franchise and wasn't mortgaging their future to get James a shot at one more ring.

[rascal]

Don't know why you're so hung up on Bridges anyways. Good defender and nice supporting guy, but not someone you're building your team around. Not like we were talking Booker or something. SGA was the only allstar talent available around that #10 spot.

Bridges is great and a big reason why Phoenix has the top record in the league. He's not a superstar franchise player you build around but he's better than what the spurs ended up with. He would be the best player on the Spurs now.

[baseline bum]

Again the Spurs were not sold yet that they had to trade Leonard so I never heard or saw anywhere that they even pursued a trade with Cleveland. I saw where the Spurs were not actively pursuing trading Leonard around draft time but just listening to offers. The Spurs were not assertive in getting the best deal and that time was in and around draft time and only traded when they had to.

And they were especially not trying to appease James at the 2018 draft when they refused to do it the entire 2017-18 season. They knew James was gone to LA already by the time of the 2018 draft. LeBron was probably already house hunting in Brentwood or Pacific Palisades by the 2018 draft.

[rascal]

Cleveland was not trading that pick. Gilbert was sick of LeBron running the franchise and wasn't mortgaging their future to get James a shot at one more ring.

I disagree/ if they land Leonard good chance James stays and they ring that year.

[baseline bum]

Bridges is great and a big reason why Phoenix has the top record in the league. He's not a superstar franchise player you build around but he's better than what the spurs ended up with. He would be the best player on the Spurs now.

No, Bridges is good. Booker is great. Big difference between good and great.

[Trainwreck2100]

Man, Philly wouldn't even give up Fultz. Lotta trash offers with Leonard sabotaging shit. Wish they would have just kept him and suspended without pay like the Sixers did with Simmons.

You forget that kawhi found a doctor to sign off on his inability to play. Would have been a whole clusterfuck if the spurs tried to force him to play when he "couldn't" Simmons fucked himself because rather than play 2 games and get "injured" he tried to muscle his way out from the beginning.

[baseline bum]

I disagree/ if they land Leonard good chance James stays and they ring that year.

Even if James wasn't out by then, which he was, they weren't mortgaging their future to get LeBron one more ring. Their best case would be James signing a one year deal and then leaving the next summer with Kawhi. James and Gilbert hated each other.

[rascal]

The Los Angeles Clippers are willing to create a trade package built around forward Tobias Harris and the 12th or 13th pick in this year’s draft to acquire San Antonio Spurs star Kawhi Leonard, according to a report from the Los Angeles Times.

I saw 12 or 13.

[baseline bum]

The Los Angeles Clippers are willing to create a trade package built around forward Tobias Harris and the 12th or 13th pick in this year’s draft to acquire San Antonio Spurs star Kawhi Leonard, according to a report from the Los Angeles Times.

I saw 12 or 13.

That's what I said. One pick and Harris.

[baseline bum]

You forget that kawhi found a doctor to sign off on his inability to play. Would have been a whole clusterfuck if the spurs tried to force him to play when he "couldn't" Simmons fucked himself because rather than play 2 games and get "injured" he tried to muscle his way out from the beginning.

Simmons did too with the mental health angle, didn't he?

[rascal]

Jerry West tried to move up with the 12 and 13 to draft Doncic but was unable to so. So next option was

That means Kawhi Leonard could be a more likely Clippers trade option.
A move would have to come fast given the quick timetable, and it is unclear if the San Antonio Spurs would see two late-lottery picks as enough for a player of Leonard’s caliber.

[rascal]

That's what I said. One pick and Harris.

The problem here was the Spurs were not interested in making that trade.

[rascal]

One rumor that also sprouted concerns the L.A. Clippers, who are reportedly making a concerted effort to woo the San Antonio Spurs into giving up embattled forward Kawhi Leonard for two of their first-round picks packaged with swingman Tobias Harris, per Marc Stein of The New York Times.

League sources say the Clippers have been trying to lure the Spurs into Kawhi Leonard trade talks with an offer featuring their two lotto picks and Tobias Harris, but it appears they’ll be making the 12th and 13th pick for themselves — with Michael Porter Jr. still on the board.

So like I said both offers were out there. The Clippers were getting desperate and then offered both picks on draft day and the Spurs still didn't want to make a trade.

[baseline bum]

The problem here was the Spurs were not interested in making that trade.

They weren't getting Bridges anyways since he went #10.

[rascal]

They weren't getting Bridges anyways since he went #10.

I thought we were discussing the 12 and 13 picks for Leonard?

Philly traded that 10th pick so The Spurs could have possibly made a play for Bridges if they wanted him in a deal for that 10th pick but they pulled nothing off in a trade on that draft day.

[baseline bum]

I thought we were discussing the 12 and 13 picks for Leonard?

Philly traded that 10th pick so The Spurs could have possibly made play for Bridges if they wanted him in a deal for that 10th pick but they pulled nothing off in a trade on that draft day.

No, we were discussing the 12 or 13 pick + Harris for Leonard.

[rascal]

No, we were discussing the 12 or 13 pick + Harris for Leonard.

The offer then became 12 and 13 + Harris on draft day.

Both offers were on the table at a time, Spurs were not interested in either.

[JPB]

Not sure what you are arguing here. Raps don’t win that series if the Warriors don’t lose TWO future HOFers in the final/ but Pop’s move was banishing Leonard to Toronto, the front office relationships made it easier.

Injuries happen every freaking year in the PO, last man standing. End of story, spurs traded KL to a contender for the best offer they tough they were getting at that time, be it or not.

Now, if you think they traded him here independently of what they were getting, just because boo, boo, boo! Take this you villain!... This is a billion dollar league, not kindergarten.... Good luck explaining that to your owner(s).

[Trainwreck2100]

Simmons did too with the mental health angle, didn't he?


If he didn't spend the entire summer saying he wasn't going to play for them, then make a bad faith attempt at practice he might have something. The only reason he showed up to Philly and the bkn bench was because he wanted to use the boos as evidence of a hostile work environment. Kawhi did the same thing but rather then some bullshit psychology excuse he would have had an MD sign off on it.

[KingKev]

-/+ are overrated

In isolation +\- can be misleading. To be the all-time most negative player to play in the playoffs probably means something.

[Texas_Ranger]

there were people that believed in this loser.

[timtonymanu]

there were people that believed in this loser.

Lol people were saying we were premature to doubt him after his ONE good playoff game the other day.

[KingKev]

DDR a team worst -24 in a 24point loss. LOL.

[tbdog]

Bucks were always going to smash the bulls.

[Dejounte]

What do the closet Bulls fans have to say now about this result?

No one likes to play the long game. It’s always about being a prisoner of the moment. No sight beyond the present situation. Folks were loud earlier in the season about how this fool’s gold team has a bright future. How there’s zero chance Lavine would leave this great team. Now injuries are the excuse that will be used over and over. Fuck out of here, dude.

[KingKev]

What do the closet Bulls fans have to say now about this result?

No one likes to play the long game. It’s always about being a prisoner of the moment. No sight beyond the present situation. Folks were loud earlier in the season about how this fool’s gold team has a bright future. How there’s zero chance Lavine would leave this great team. Now injuries are the excuse that will be used over and over. Fuck out of here, dude.

DDR shitting the bed no surprise there but injuries were a contributing factor. Lonzo and Caruso make the DDR/Lavine combo much better in many ways.

Also, Lavine still probably isn’t leaving though injuries, a playoff meltdown and sub max offer were stated on here by myself and others as the potential catalysts for him to leave.

[baseline bum]

Bucks were always going to smash the bulls.

DeRozan should have probably kept them above the #6 seed then.

[tbdog]

DeRozan should have probably kept them above the #6 seed then.

If they didn't lose 3 of their 8 man rotation to injuries, he would have.

[exstatic]

Bridges is great and a big reason why Phoenix has the top record in the league. He's not a superstar franchise player you build around but he's better than what the spurs ended up with. He would be the best player on the Spurs now.

Bridges is at best their #3 guy. We got DeRozan, who’s a #2 guy.

[GAustex]

DDR has a beautiful game shaking and baking to his spot
The worst good player maybe of all time

[rascal]

Bridges is at best their #3 guy. We got DeRozan, who’s a #2 guy.

Bridges is better. He'd still be with the Spurs.

[Poolboy5623]

The mistake was trading for Derozan in the first place. Should have swallowed their pride and sent KL to the Lakers for Ingram and w/e else.. Demar is junk at the end of the day. This last season proves that point.

[BatManu20]

The mistake was trading for Derozan in the first place. Should have swallowed their pride and sent KL to the Lakers for Ingram and w/e else.. Demar is junk at the end of the day. This last season proves that point.

Tough situation cause you basically would’ve gifted LA at least one Championship, maybe more. But getting Brandon Ingram and Lonzo Ball back would’ve been better than what we got. We then could’ve then traded Lonzo for another high-end pick if we wanted, and traded Kuzma for whatever we could get for him. That definitely was the smarter move basketball-wise. But gifting Lebron & the lakers a Chip or maybe even multiple would’ve been a hard pill to swallow tbh.

Spurs unrealistically asked for like 4 FRP’s too from the lakers though, basically making it impossible for the Lakers to trade for him. Ended up with DeMar, Jak, & Keldon and the rest is history.

[The Truth #6]

We made a mistake not recognizing that losing Kawhi was going to lead to mediocrity and should have accepted that we very quickly were rebuilding. That lack of recognition lasted for almost three years and still feels horrible even though it is finally over. In retrospect, they should have dumped LMA first while he had value. Loved last season relatively speaking compared to the DDR years. Anyway. I can't imagine there should be much to debate about this. We're worse off now because of it, but at least we are moving in a better direction.

[exstatic]

The mistake was trading for Derozan in the first place. Should have swallowed their pride and sent KL to the Lakers for Ingram and w/e else.. Demar is junk at the end of the day. This last season proves that point.

They weren’t offered BI. I believe it was either Jason Hart and one FRP or Kuzma and one FRP.

[rjv]

DDR shitting the bed no surprise there but injuries were a contributing factor. Lonzo and Caruso make the DDR/Lavine combo much better in many ways.

Also, Lavine still probably isn’t leaving though injuries, a playoff meltdown and sub max offer were stated on here by myself and others as the potential catalysts for him to leave.

whether lavine leaves or not just comes down to his market value. does chicago think enough of him to offer the max or, if not, will some other team offer it? i don't think lavine is of he curry/duncan school of taking a pay cut for the good of the team (few players are, tbh).

[KingKev]

whether lavine leaves or not just comes down to his market value. does chicago think enough of him to offer the max or, if not, will some other team offer it? i don't think lavine is of he curry/duncan school of taking a pay cut for the good of the team (few players are, tbh).

The Bulls wen’t all in to put a team around him. Doubt they risk losing him for not offering him the max.

In a very thin free agency Lavine holds all the cards. If he does want out he is probably good enough to dictate where as Chicago will likely be inclined to work a sign and trade.

I’m all for maxing him out outright if he wanted to come to SA but wouldn’t be offering much in a sign and trade.

[MultiTroll]

They weren’t offered BI. I believe it was either Jason Hart and one FRP or Kuzma and one FRP.
This.
IIRC it was Magic at the GM controls of the Fake Show at that time.
Of course he floated some ridiculous offer.
Don't blame Pop for saying stop talking to that phaggot.

[Ocotillo]

Didn't see the game, was the Chicago crowd chanting MVP when DRozz was shooting free throws? :lol

[Ocotillo]

They weren’t offered BI. I believe it was either Jason Hart and one FRP or Kuzma and one FRP.

Yeah, I don't recall BI was even being offered at the time. I even recall some arguing that we should demand Ingram but he had some sort of blood test that was concerning at the time too which clouded is future. I guess nothing ever came of that.

Now for AD, they backed up the Brinks truck and NOLA has come out of that looking like a champ.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Demar had that game leading -24 +/- yesterday. Nice to see that playoff DeRozan is in full form.

[Ice009]

They weren’t offered BI. I believe it was either Jason Hart and one FRP or Kuzma and one FRP.

Maybe the Lakers would have done it if the Spurs showed any interest in trading with them. I am sure if the Spurs said something like "we will trade you Kawhi, but we want a package built around Brandon Ingram," I think the Lakers would have ended up doing it. If the Lakers still didn't budge, then you can't really blame the Spurs. Questions is, did they have any interest in Ingram, and did they even try to get him, or did they not even ask about him because they didn't want to trade with them at any cost?

[daslicer]

We made a mistake not recognizing that losing Kawhi was going to lead to mediocrity and should have accepted that we very quickly were rebuilding. That lack of recognition lasted for almost three years and still feels horrible even though it is finally over. In retrospect, they should have dumped LMA first while he had value. Loved last season relatively speaking compared to the DDR years. Anyway. I can't imagine there should be much to debate about this. We're worse off now because of it, but at least we are moving in a better direction.

I was one of the few that wanted to just let Kawhi walk for nothing because I felt the Spurs weren't going to get anything of value and should just start on the rebuild immediately instead of trying to waste a few years of being mediocre. Pop's ego wouldn't allow it since he needed Demar and LMA to pad up his win total to get the record.

[exstatic]

I was one of the few that wanted to just let Kawhi walk for nothing because I felt the Spurs weren't going to get anything of value and should just start on the rebuild immediately instead of trying to waste a few years of being mediocre. Pop's ego wouldn't allow it since he needed Demar and LMA to pad up his win total to get the record.

Yea, that’s a really dumb take, considering that FAs don’t sign here, and we have Keldon, Jak, or whatever he brings in trade, plus two FRPs all spun off from that trade.

[rascal]

Maybe the Lakers would have done it if the Spurs showed any interest in trading with them. I am sure if the Spurs said something like "we will trade you Kawhi, but we want a package built around Brandon Ingram," I think the Lakers would have ended up doing it. If the Lakers still didn't budge, then you can't really blame the Spurs. Questions is, did they have any interest in Ingram, and did they even try to get him, or did they not even ask about him because they didn't want to trade with them at any cost?

Ingram wasn't the player he is now at the time. The Spurs were not interested in what the Lakers wanted to offer, including Ingram.

[daslicer]

Yea, that’s a really dumb take, considering that FAs don’t sign here, and we have Keldon, Jak, or whatever he brings in trade, plus two FRPs all spun off from that trade.

More like an idiotic response by you. I never said the Spurs would have gotten good FA's dumbass but they would have gotten better draft picks if they didn't waste time with the idea they could still be a winner with LMA-Derozan pairing. They should have started the rebuild in the summer of 2018 instead of pushing it off for 3 years. Those 3 years resulted in nothing of good value.

Also the Spurs only got 1 first round pick out of that trade and not two. Keldon is a tweener and you don't win with those type of guys long term in this league. Jak is a solid center but isn't anything special that we couldn't have eventually found through the draft.

[exstatic]

More like an idiotic response by you. I never said the Spurs would have gotten good FA's dumbass but they would have gotten better draft picks if they didn't waste time with the idea they could still be a winner with LMA-Derozan pairing. They should have started the rebuild in the summer of 2018 instead of pushing it off for 3 years. Those 3 years resulted in nothing of good value.

Also the Spurs only got 1 first round pick out of that trade and not two. Keldon is a tweener and you don't win with those type of guys long term in this league. Jak is a solid center but isn't anything special that we couldn't have eventually found through the draft.

It's a cascade from the original Kawhi trade.

Jak
FRP - became Keldon
Demar
- flipped for
Aminu
Chicago's 2025 FRP and SRP
Thad
- flipped for Toronto's FRP this year

We could still leverage more picks out of this for Jak. I guess we should have just taken nothing, though, right?

[JeffDuncan]

It's a cascade from the original Kawhi trade. …


The word “cascade” has a root meaning of ‘fall.’ It’s a well chosen word.

Observe:

2018-19, 48 wins and 34 losses.
2019-20, 32 and 39
2020-21, 33 and 39
2021-22, 34 and 48

It’s a fall alright, right over the edge of the cliff. LMA and DDR held the line for one season, and then, down we go.



... I guess we should have just taken nothing, though, right?

In fact, it does look like nothing. Might as well have traded for draft picks. But you never know at the time.

[exstatic]

The word “cascade” has a root meaning of ‘fall.’ It’s a well chosen word.

Observe:

2018-19, 48 wins and 34 losses.
2019-20, 32 and 39
2020-21, 33 and 39
2021-22, 34 and 48

It’s a fall alright, right over the edge of the cliff. LMA and DDR held the line for one season, and then, down we go.



In fact, it does look like nothing. Might as well have traded for draft picks. But you never know at the time.

We did get draft picks. Not right away, but we have one FRP on deck and one in 2025, plus the Keldon pick. We’re at 3 FRPs and counting. If they move Jak this summer or next deadline, that will be another FRP.

[offset formation]

They weren’t offered BI. I believe it was either Jason Hart and one FRP or Kuzma and one FRP.

Final offer I read from somewhere at the time was Hart, BI, FRP, SRP.

[daslicer]

It's a cascade from the original Kawhi trade.

Jak
FRP - became Keldon
Demar
- flipped for
Aminu
Chicago's 2025 FRP and SRP
Thad
- flipped for Toronto's FRP this year

We could still leverage more picks out of this for Jak. I guess we should have just taken nothing, though, right?

Now you are trying to change the original argument from what the Spurs received in the actual trade which was Derozan,Jakob, and Keldon Johnson to what they additionally got from flipping Derozan. If you play that game it opens up a rabbit hole that we can play for years. Those picks we flip for Derozan won't mean jack shit in the scheme of things unless the Spurs get an all-star caliber player out of one of those picks. If it's just another role player then it's pretty much useless since you need an all-star caliber player at least to move up from being a lottery to being a playoff team to eventually being a good team. Getting another bunch of role players on the level of a Vassell which is what the Spurs will probably get with these picks isn't going to move the needle for them. If I'm wrong I will eat crow but I'm not optimistic the Spurs will get anything special with those picks.

I look at the Grizzlies they rebuilt their team quickly during the same time the Spurs were going through the Kawhi fiasco. They got Jaren Jackson Jr in the summer of '18 and then in the summer of '19 they got Ja Morant. Spurs could have used that time period to rebuild but instead played the stupid game of being a mediocre borderline playoff team and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

[rascal]

The bottom line is up to this point in time the Spurs record has gotten worse since the trade so the picks haven't panned out in improving the team to this point.

[rascal]

Now you are trying to change the original argument from what the Spurs received in the actual trade which was Derozan,Jakob, and Keldon Johnson to what they additionally got from flipping Derozan. If you play that game it opens up a rabbit hole that we can play for years. Those picks we flip for Derozan won't mean jack shit in the scheme of things unless the Spurs get an all-star caliber player out of one of those picks. If it's just another role player then it's pretty much useless since you need an all-star caliber player at least to move up from being a lottery to being a playoff team to eventually being a good team. Getting another bunch of role players on the level of a Vassell which is what the Spurs will probably get with these picks isn't going to move the needle for them. If I'm wrong I will eat crow but I'm not optimistic the Spurs will get anything special with those picks.

I look at the Grizzlies they rebuilt their team quickly during the same time the Spurs were going through the Kawhi fiasco. They got Jaren Jackson Jr in the summer of '18 and then in the summer of '19 they got Ja Morant. Spurs could have used that time period to rebuild but instead played the stupid game of being a mediocre borderline playoff team and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

Even New Orleans is turning that team around after having to move a star player.

Depending on the lottery outcome, they'll also get the 8th pick right before the Spurs.

[baseline bum]

Final offer I read from somewhere at the time was Hart, BI, FRP, SRP.

Lakers picks would have been garbage, nowhere near as good an offer as New Orleans got for Davis since the #4 pick was part of that.

[duncan2k5]

The bottom line is up to this point in time the Spurs record has gotten worse since the trade so the picks haven't panned out in improving the team to this point.

The Spurs got better by trading DeRozan who took us to the lottery 2 years in a row... Our record is a game or 2 worse because the west has gotten even better than they were last year

[KingKev]

The Spurs got better by trading DeRozan who took us to the lottery 2 years in a row... Our record is a game or 2 worse because the west has gotten even better than they were last year

Our record is considerably worse this year then the year before. We played a full season (82) vs a shortened season (72) and came out with one more win.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Our record is considerably worse this year then the year before. We played a full season (82) vs a shortened season (72) and came out with one more win.

I can't tell if you are serious. The first draft pick is the Laker's pick this year and the other is in 2025. For our players to improve they have to play. I think it is undeniable that DJM showed significant improvement this year as did KJ and Vassell. It also became clear (at least to the FO) that White didn't fit. None of that occurs to the degree it did IMO with DeRozan here. Also to keep DDR you likely are signing him to a 3 year deal at $25 to 30 million. That would severely hamper the flexibility the Spurs currently have moving forward. So are you saying the goal this year should have been to have home-court in the play-in game? So then we are likely drafting 12th instead of 9th. Pray tell, what do you think the outcome of this season would be if we had kept DDR?

[KingKev]

I can't tell if you are serious. The first draft pick is the Laker's pick this year and the other is in 2025. For our players to improve they have to play. I think it is undeniable that DJM showed significant improvement this year as did KJ and Vassell. It also became clear (at least to the FO) that White didn't fit. None of that occurs to the degree it did IMO with DeRozan here. Also to keep DDR you likely are signing him to a 3 year deal at $25 to 30 million. That would severely hamper the flexibility the Spurs currently have moving forward. So are you saying the goal this year should have been to have home-court in the play-in game? So then we are likely drafting 12th instead of 9th. Pray tell, what do you think the outcome of this season would be if we had kept DDR?

Huh? I was just correcting 2k15 as I think he missed we played 10 more games this year.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Huh? I was just correcting 2k15 as I think he missed we played 10 more games this year.

My bad.

[KingKev]

My bad.

All good homie.

[Texas_Ranger]

:lol

[duncan2k5]

Huh? I was just correcting 2k15 as I think he missed we played 10 more games this year.

But ur missing my point... There stands a great chance we would still end up losing more games because the west is better than when DDR played here... Our guys improved since he left... They would most likely have stayed stagnant like they did all his years here

[Teamduncan21]

But ur missing my point... There stands a great chance we would still end up losing more games because the west is better than when DDR played here... Our guys improved since he left... They would most likely have stayed stagnant like they did all his years here

Nah. We should get a few more wins. More of it's irrelevant. We are too far out. Additional 5 wins won't make any dent. And will get knocked out of play in anyway.

So rather have young guys get some experience at least they are better for the future. Since the impact of having DeRozan wouldn't be material.

[Slippy]

Same old Demar . Flaked again on offence when the pressure was on in da playoffs.

The lack of defense from him was a big reason bucks scored with ease.

[spurs1990]

Hats off to Derozan on a great year. In all honesty he arguably had three times the season of Ben Simmons, Leonard and Zion combined

[Ice009]

Ingram wasn't the player he is now at the time. The Spurs were not interested in what the Lakers wanted to offer, including Ingram.

I know he wasn't and I didn't love him at the time, especially not for Kawhi, but if the choice at the time was between DeRozan and Ingram (if that was presented to me), I easily would have picked Ingram due to his age and potential. I did not want DeRozan and if the Spurs got Ingram and it came out later that the other choice was DeRozan, I would have been much happier with Ingram.

The big mistake was we shouldn't have gotten DeMar in the first place, and the second mistake was that we held onto him too long.

[objective]

Lakers never offered Ingram, Shelburne did stories about how he wasn't in the proposed deal despite the Spurs desire, the exact word was 'covet' if I recall

I don't think Lonzo was ever on the table either.

[Budkin]

DeFrozen per par tbh

[John B]

It’s good while it lasted.

[Ocotillo]

Lakers never offered Ingram, Shelburne did stories about how he wasn't in the proposed deal despite the Spurs desire, the exact word was 'covet' if I recall

I don't think Lonzo was ever on the table either.

It's interesting when you look back at one time LA had Ingram, Hart, Randle, Lonzo, and DLo. If they kept all of those guys instead of DLo they would still be playing ball right now. Oh! And Caruso.

[Rocalcio]

I know he wasn't and I didn't love him at the time, especially not for Kawhi, but if the choice at the time was between DeRozan and Ingram (if that was presented to me), I easily would have picked Ingram due to his age and potential. I did not want DeRozan and if the Spurs got Ingram and it came out later that the other choice was DeRozan, I would have been much happier with Ingram.

The big mistake was we shouldn't have gotten DeMar in the first place, and the second mistake was that we held onto him too long.

No deal would have been made with an LA team, just to piss off the Traitor and his uncle.

[exstatic]

It's interesting when you look back at one time LA had Ingram, Hart, Randle, Lonzo, and DLo. If they kept all of those guys instead of DLo they would still be playing ball right now. Oh! And Caruso.

Three All Stars, but LeBron would rather steer the banana boat.

[rjv]

demar is a Robin whose never found a Batman

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

demar is a Robin whose never found a Batman

Disagree. He doesn't have a Robin type game. He's a Batman, just not a great one. More of a George Clooney than a Christian Bale.

[rjv]

Disagree. He doesn't have a Robin type game. He's a Batman, just not a great one. More of a George Clooney than a Christian Bale.

well hell, i think i'd rather have a joseph gordon-levitt robin than a clooney batman. this also begs the question-was pippen a robin or a terrible batman?

[exstatic]

well hell, i think i'd rather have a joseph gordon-levitt robin than a clooney batman. this also begs the question-was pippen a robin or a terrible batman?

Pip was one of the best Robins in history who thought he could be a batman, and epically failed at it.

[John B]

Disagree. He doesn't have a Robin type game. He's a Batman, just not a great one. More of a George Clooney than a Christian Bale.

Agree. If Demar played in the 90’s with his mid-range, he’d be MVP caliber.

[daslicer]

Disagree. He doesn't have a Robin type game. He's a Batman, just not a great one. More of a George Clooney than a Christian Bale.

He’s more like an Alfred who needs a Batman and Robin.

[KingKev]

He’s more like an Alfred who needs a Batman and Robin.

I thought that was Pop? I’d say he is more fake Batman but looks authentic to the naked eye.

[Dex]

From reddit, DeRozan has the worst playoff +/- of all time:

DeRozan is at -373 all time and 2nd worst is Carmelo Anthony at -288: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lowest-playoffs-plus-minus

2021-22 : -65 (2nd worst on team)

2018-19: -33 (team-worst)

2017-18: -65 (team-worst)

2016-17: -69 (team-worst)

2015-16: -76 (3rd worst on team)

2014-15: -47 (team-worst)

2013-14: -18 (5th worst on team)

Also making an appearance on the list is our old buddy LaMarcus Aldridge.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

From reddit, DeRozan has the worst playoff +/- of all time:

DeRozan is at -373 all time and 2nd worst is Carmelo Anthony at -288: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lowest-playoffs-plus-minus

2021-22 : -65 (2nd worst on team)

2018-19: -33 (team-worst)

2017-18: -65 (team-worst)

2016-17: -69 (team-worst)

2015-16: -76 (3rd worst on team)

2014-15: -47 (team-worst)

2013-14: -18 (5th worst on team)

Also making an appearance on the list is our old buddy LaMarcus Aldridge.

When you're supposed to be your team's best player but you're the team's worst +/- player that says a lot.

And the fact he and Aldridge left the Spurs to a team of near rookie mid-draft players, and this group has actually gotten slightly better also says a lot.

[spurs1990]

Derozan has a cadre of devoted online fans who’ll ignore all of that hard data and more to deflect any criticism on his play. And these folks exist among the Spurs fan base! How in the hell this guy can inspire that level of obsequiousness is one of the greater mysteries I’ve encountered in 25 years of internet message board existence.

There can be no doubt his three year run was an unquestioned failure in team success with him being the sole anchor for the last two.

[tbdog]

If we got Lavine, that trade would be highway robbery.