ESPN's Rank of the "Top 76" Players

[TD 21]

The NBA's 75th Anniversary Team, ranked -- Where 76 basketball legends check in on our list (espn.com) (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33297498/the-nba-75th-anniversary-team-ranked-where-76-basketball-legends-check-our-list)


A typically terrible list by them, where they predictably mostly overrated older players and underrated current ones, with one notable exception (:lmao At Scumbag at 33, blowing away the likes of Davis and Harden, among others).

Gervin at 52, Robinson at 25, Duncan at 8.

[MultiTroll]

The NBA's 75th Anniversary Team, ranked -- Where 76 basketball legends check in on our list (espn.com) (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33297498/the-nba-75th-anniversary-team-ranked-where-76-basketball-legends-check-our-list)

A typically terrible list by them,
Context:
Other ESPN award picks
What year was Caitlyn Jenner Woman of the Year? (treehozz.com) (https://treehozz.com/what-year-was-caitlyn-jenner-woman-of-the-year)

[SpurPadre]

The NBA's 75th Anniversary Team, ranked -- Where 76 basketball legends check in on our list (espn.com) (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33297498/the-nba-75th-anniversary-team-ranked-where-76-basketball-legends-check-our-list)


A typically terrible list by them, where they predictably mostly overrated older players and underrated current ones, with one notable exception (:lmao At Scumbag at 33, blowing away the likes of Davis and Harden, among others).

Gervin at 52, Robinson at 25, Duncan at 8.

I'd say they are OVERRATING current players too. Lillard on the list? Fuck no. LeBron over Kareem? Fuck no. Curry as #16? No. Giannis at #18? NO. Load Management at 33? FUCK NO.

[TD 21]

I'd say they are OVERRATING current players too. Lillard on the list? Fuck no. LeBron over Kareem? Fuck no. Curry as #16? No. Giannis at #18? NO. Load Management at 33? FUCK NO.

They're basing it off of who was selected, which was terrible to begin with.

[R. DeMurre]

There's a lot of sentimental attachment for many folks with Allen Iverson, but I'd say his rating is way too high. No way he's better than Walt Frazier, Kawhi, or Pippen. In some ways, he laid the groundwork for Russell Westbrook with big numbers, poor shooting, sky high usage rate, & high turnovers... His advanced stats are barely better than average. I'd start a team with Manu or even Andrei Kirilenko before I'd start a team with Iverson.

[Seventyniner]

It might be interesting for the league to add one player to the "best NBA players of all time" list every year rather than adding 25 names every 25 years. I don't see that happening though.

[emanueldavidginobili]

I'm not sure if any one tuned in but on Saturday TNT drafted from the top 75 with four Wild Cards, can anyone guess who the four Wild Cards were who they decided to draft? Barkley, Jerry West, Shams, Wade, Sue Bird, Dominique and among others were the ones who drafted.

[KingKev]

I'm not sure if any one tuned in but on Saturday TNT drafted from the top 75 with four Wild Cards, can anyone guess who the four Wild Cards were who they decided to draft? Barkley, Jerry West, Shams, Wade, Sue Bird, Dominique and among others were the ones who drafted.

Joker, TMac, Bosh and Klay.

Disrespectful to Vince and Manu.

[Mr. Body]

Didn't they lobby to get Laker Anthony Davis put on the list, which he very much never deserved? ESPN is the shit rag of sports journalism.

[KobesAchilles]

I'd say they are OVERRATING current players too. Lillard on the list? Fuck no. LeBron over Kareem? Fuck no. Curry as #16? No. Giannis at #18? NO. Load Management at 33? FUCK NO.
I mean Giannis should be 18 tbh. DPOY. 2x MVP. Finals MVP. 6x all star. About to be 6x all nba. It’s hard to come up with 17 better players/resumes than Giannis. There’s slight projection of course but Giannis could legitimately be top 12-15 if he rings again this year.

Curry is another wild card. He has a chance to be too 12-15 if he wins a ring AND a finals MVP this year. Tall order I know but if he has 8 all star appearances. 2x mvp. 4 rings and a finals MVP, and about to be 8x all nba team. Like it or not but he belongs on the list

Kawhi though belongs nowhere near top 30. Dudes stats are terrible. He has scored less than 12k points. Has low rebound and assist numbers. And really will he come back the same?

[Arcadian]

There's a lot of sentimental attachment for many folks with Allen Iverson, but I'd say his rating is way too high. No way he's better than Walt Frazier, Kawhi, or Pippen. In some ways, he laid the groundwork for Russell Westbrook with big numbers, poor shooting, sky high usage rate, & high turnovers... His advanced stats are barely better than average. I'd start a team with Manu or even Andrei Kirilenko before I'd start a team with Iverson.

He was the most popular NBA player around 2001-02, even more than Kobe and Shaq. When I was in middle school, all the kids wanted to wear Iversons. He was portrayed as a "Little Jordan"

[HemisfairArena]

From Lakers Daily:

Shaquille O'Neal adamantly states who he believes is the greatest NBA player to never win a championship. Los Angeles Lakers legend Shaquille O'Neal revealed that Hall of Fame guard Allen Iverson was one of the toughest players to guard and the best player to never win a title.

[R. DeMurre]

He was the most popular NBA player around 2001-02, even more than Kobe and Shaq. When I was in middle school, all the kids wanted to wear Iversons. He was portrayed as a "Little Jordan"


Yeah, he had the flair and street cred of an AND1 league star, but in the NBA.

[lefty]

Rankings are popularity contests tbh

Also the ringz argument is stupid; if Jordan never got a good team a and a good coach, would he be in the GOAT convo?

No, but that's wrong, because it shouldn't take anything away from him as a player



Same thing with the Finals MVP argument, did Jordan really deserve it in 1996?

Porker was FMVP in 2007 but Duncan was really the most impactful presence in those series

Magic didnt deserve Final MVP in 1980, sure he had that great game 6 but Kareem torched the Sixers frontline for 5 games, and reporters voted he award, so they went with the super media friendly Magic as opposed to Kareem who they hated

Did Worthy deserve FMVP in 1988? No, but they gave i to him because of his game 7 triple double, bu over he whole series, Magic was the real Finals MVP

Also, Curry has no problem letting other players take the spotlight, he puts the team above anything else


It's a team sport, period

[lefty]

Iverson was awesome in 2000-2001, but that's about it

He was really electrifying and his duel with VC in the playoffs was epic

Philly shouldn't have won the East though, Milwaukee was robbed

[jsandiego]

I would put Shaq over Kobe, and both of them into the Top 10 over Oscar. Timmy anywhere from 3-8.

[KobesAchilles]

I know Dirk has a ring and a Finals MVP and scored a lot of points, but I just can’t put him over DRob. Same with KG. KG is a worse version of Robinson in almost every way (except he was a much better passer) but bc he won one ring with Boston people prop him up. Robinson is so much better than KG.

[LkrFan]

Replace Dame with TP9 tbh
1495596470174724098

[Adam Lambert]

I love him but throw out team stats and no reasonable person would claim Tony Parker was a better player than Lillard.

[jsandiego]

[Edit: double post]

[daslicer]

I know Dirk has a ring and a Finals MVP and scored a lot of points, but I just can’t put him over DRob. Same with KG. KG is a worse version of Robinson in almost every way (except he was a much better passer) but bc he won one ring with Boston people prop him up. Robinson is so much better than KG.

I have always felt Drob was better than both. Neither of those two guys would have defeated Hakeem in '95.

[daslicer]

I love him but throw out team stats and no reasonable person would claim Tony Parker was a better player than Lillard.

It's a lot closer than you think. Lillard is a much better shooter than Parker. Parker was a great finisher and could easily score in the paint compared to Lillard. Parker's speed was on another level compared to Lillard. Both are on the same level playmaking wise and defensively. Parker is a better scorer than Lillard even though his scoring average is lower than Lillard. The reason for this is the spurs system he played in and the era he started his career in. The league's rules didn't fully favor perimeter players until the start of the 2010's right when Lillard entered the league while Parker's prime was starting to wind down. Parker's numbers would have been even greater if he got play with these types of rules earlier in his careers and got to play on a team that was focused on offense.

[daslicer]

Rankings are popularity contests tbh

Also the ringz argument is stupid; if Jordan never got a good team a and a good coach, would he be in the GOAT convo?

No, but that's wrong, because it shouldn't take anything away from him as a player



Same thing with the Finals MVP argument, did Jordan really deserve it in 1996?

Porker was FMVP in 2007 but Duncan was really the most impactful presence in those series

Magic didnt deserve Final MVP in 1980, sure he had that great game 6 but Kareem torched the Sixers frontline for 5 games, and reporters voted he award, so they went with the super media friendly Magic as opposed to Kareem who they hated

Did Worthy deserve FMVP in 1988? No, but they gave i to him because of his game 7 triple double, bu over he whole series, Magic was the real Finals MVP

Also, Curry has no problem letting other players take the spotlight, he puts the team above anything else


It's a team sport, period

I agree with you when it comes to rankings everything is debatable and it comes down to mainly perception and popularity. I even go back to '93 when everyone proclaimed Jordan was the goat after retiring. You could easily make the case back then that Kareem was still ahead of Jordan due to him having more rings, league MVPs, career points, etc.

It's because I see how trivial these rankings are now that as I have gotten older, I don't care about debating people anymore on these things.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I know Dirk has a ring and a Finals MVP and scored a lot of points, but I just can’t put him over DRob. Same with KG. KG is a worse version of Robinson in almost every way (except he was a much better passer) but bc he won one ring with Boston people prop him up. Robinson is so much better than KG.

He also props himself up. Showmen get the love. Look at Rodman. I've never seen a one dimensional player get as much love as Dennis did, but flash equals cash.


If Timmy had played for a larger market and promoted himself like LeBron and Jordan did, he's be in the conversation for top 3 all time instead of 7-10.

[daslicer]

He also props himself up. Showmen get the love. Look at Rodman. I've never seen a one dimensional player get as much love as Dennis did, but flash equals cash.


If Timmy had played for a larger market and promoted himself like LeBron and Jordan did, he's be in the conversation for top 3 all time instead of 7-10.

Timvp said it best that if Danny Green dyed his hair and dated Rihanna that we would view him the same way as Rodman. Rodman dying his hair and dating Madonna is what really catapulted his image from being viewed as a good role player to a star along with playing in Chicago. When in reality he was a just a very good role player.

[KingKev]

Timvp said it best that if Danny Green dyed his hair and dated Rihanna that we would view him the same way as Rodman. Rodman dying his hair and dating Madonna is what really catapulted his image from being viewed as a good role player to a star along with playing in Chicago. When in reality he was a just a very good role player.

haha oh man I love Danny Green but his taste in women damn he don’t discriminate… I chopped it up courtisde with him in Detroit his last year as a Spur as he rode a bike behind the bench that whole game and he was a super nice guy but man when he got to Toronto amd really started having his fun the girls he was partying with were not quite on RiRi’s level haha. Straight 5s lol.

[slick'81]

haha oh man I love Danny Green but his taste in women damn he don’t discriminate… I chopped it up courtisde with him in Detroit his last year as a Spur as he rode a bike behind the bench that whole game and he was a super nice guy but man when he got to Toronto amd really started having his fun the girls he was partying with were not quite on RiRi’s level haha. Straight 5s lol.

yup, danny was dating my barber's daughter and she was a cow

[daslicer]

haha oh man I love Danny Green but his taste in women damn he don’t discriminate… I chopped it up courtisde with him in Detroit his last year as a Spur as he rode a bike behind the bench that whole game and he was a super nice guy but man when he got to Toronto amd really started having his fun the girls he was partying with were not quite on RiRi’s level haha. Straight 5s lol.

I can believe that. Danny seems to have a thing for regular plain looking white girls. That's cool that you got meet him.

[KingKev]

I can believe that. Danny seems to have a thing for regular plain looking white girls. That's cool that you got meet him.

haha Green seemed to cut loose once he got to TO. It’s a pretty vibrant night life compared to SA.

[KingKev]

yup, danny was dating my barber's daughter and she was a cow

haha man he is still one of my all-time favourite Spurs. Contract year DG was always something to watch!

[ambchang]

Wilt suddenly getting more love, he was consistently in the lower half of the top ten in previous years, but he is now in the top 5 over Russell and Bird (who used to rank above him all the time)

Speaking of Wilt, I can't understand the logic of having Wilt and Russell at 5 and 6. One is mostly stats, the other mostly titles. But if one is more important than the others, they shouldn't be so close together. If both are important, then players ranked below them should separate them as well (Duncan, Shaq, Dirk)

Magic at 4? Really? I mean, he's my favourite non-spurs player ever, but 4?

Kobe somehow jumped 3 spots just for being dead.

The Big O is ranked pretty high for someone who never won a ring as the alpha.

Durant at 12 is :lol. couple of stacked rings, consistently shrunk when the going gets tough. I'd have Curry or Giannis over him

Hakeem at 13 is pretty low, I'd put him at top 10

No way Moses below Dr. J

Baylor is way too high for a guy with no ring. Wilt, Magic, Kobe, and now Baylor, seems like you get a bonus bump just being a Laker. Only Shaq was shafted.

Glad to see Barkley over the pedo.

Barkley, pedo, Stockton, Admiral, and Pippen are all interchangeable to me.

Isiah is ranked shockingly low

I just can't see Wade being higher than Pippen

Nephew being 33 is laughable

Walton is way too high for a guy who was mostly injured

As much as I hate Harden, he's a little low.

Reggie shouldn't even be on the list, and at 51? Over Gervin? Come on. Both guys did nothing but score, Gervin scored a hell lot more. And how in the hell can Reggie be over Drexler? How?

[kht]

Nephew at 33 is too high. He has about 4-5 worthy seasons. One of his rings/Final's MVP was a role player award. Take that away, and he's in the 1 ring/1 FMVP tier without any of the longevity.

Stockton at 24... he was never an MVP candidate or considered a top 10 player. He played for so long that his stats became untouchable.

McHale at 39? LOL.

KD @ 12 is way too high with his team stacking ass. Any halfway decent player coulda rang with the Warriors.

To the poster above, Magic is fine at 4. 5 titles, 3 FMVP, 4 MVP's... in a short 11 year career, making the finals like 9 times. Why not?

[lefty]

I love him but throw out team stats and no reasonable person would claim Tony Parker was a better player than Lillard.

[Ice009]

TD's always in my top 5. Not sure what my list would look like as I never saw a lot of these guys play.

My rough one would be :

1. MJ (A killer in crunch time with the game on the line. Not sure if there was better consistently in those situations as MJ)
2. Kareem (Nothing much needs to be said)
3. Lebron (Not a big fan of his as he needed stacked, stacked teams to win rings. He was also terrible in clutch situations for more than the first half of his career. I'd personally like to rank him lower)
4. Magic (He made the finals most of the time he played. I want to say it's because he played on stacked teams, but when I really think about it, there is other players that have been on stacked teams and never even made the finals once, so I'd say Magic was doing something right)
5. TD (TD I could put in the 3-5 range, but I am trying not to be too biased. If his knee and athleticism held up better and he had more of a prime like Hakeem did athletically/physically, I'd say he would have made the top 3)
6. Shaq (Very dominant when he was focused and locked in. Could have been as high as number 2 or even possibly number 1 if he took every game and season as seriously as Kobe did)
7. Hakeem
8. Wilt (Maybe he deserves to be higher, but I never saw him play so not sure of his competition or how high to rank him. His stats are too dominant to put him lower. Maybe he deserves to be top 5)
9. Larry
10. Kobe (personally, I like Kobe better than Lebron and Magic due to his killer attitude/instinct when the game was on the line, but I never saw Kobe get anywhere without a top 2 bigman in the NBA, so not sure how he would have done with a more balanced team and less dominant bigmen)

[ambchang]

Nephew at 33 is too high. He has about 4-5 worthy seasons. One of his rings/Final's MVP was a role player award. Take that away, and he's in the 1 ring/1 FMVP tier without any of the longevity.

Stockton at 24... he was never an MVP candidate or considered a top 10 player. He played for so long that his stats became untouchable.

McHale at 39? LOL.

KD @ 12 is way too high with his team stacking ass. Any halfway decent player coulda rang with the Warriors.

To the poster above, Magic is fine at 4. 5 titles, 3 FMVP, 4 MVP's... in a short 11 year career, making the finals like 9 times. Why not?

Magics team were stacked high and the west was utter trash most of the time. By the time the lakers get to the finals, going through the likes of nuggets and sonics, the east finalist were beaten up (76ers, pistons, Celtics were all better than the second best teams in the west by a long shot).

The teams that Give the lakers trouble (Mavs rockets) would inexplicably have their best matchup problems suspended due to drug issues. I mean, magic partied so hard he got aids, he didn’t use drug in LA hanging out with movie stars and prostitutes in the 80s?

[lefty]

TD's always in my top 5. Not sure what my list would look like as I never saw a lot of these guys play.

My rough one would be :

1. MJ (A killer in crunch time with the game on the line. Not sure if there was better consistently in those situations as MJ)
2. Kareem (Nothing much needs to be said)
3. Lebron (Not a big fan as his as he needed stacked, stacked teams to win rings. He was also terrible in clutch situations for more than the first half of his career. I'd personally like to rank him lower)

By 90s standards the Bulls had a stacked team
Also, Lebron took a terrible Cavs team to the Finals in 07
As for clutchness, doesn't lebron have better stats than MJ? And let's not forget MJ also choked big time and also got bailed out by his teammates

[lefty]

Magics team were stacked high and the west was utter trash most of the time. By the time the lakers get to the finals, going through the likes of nuggets and sonics, the east finalist were beaten up (76ers, pistons, Celtics were all better than the second best teams in the west by a long shot).

The teams that Give the lakers trouble (Mavs rockets) would inexplicably have their best matchup problems suspended due to drug issues. I mean, magic partied so hard he got aids, he didn’t use drug in LA hanging out with movie stars and prostitutes in the 80s?
This tbh

[Phenomanul]

Why are Giannis or Durant above Robinson? Heck, Durant wasn't better than Hakeem. Dude only plays one side of the ball and played in an era where perimeter players are being babied and coddled.

[Phenomanul]

And Carmelo Anthony shouldn't be on any Top 100 list much less this one.

[ambchang]

Why are Giannis or Durant above Robinson? Heck, Durant wasn't better than Hakeem. Dude only plays one side of the ball and played in an era where perimeter players are being babied and coddled.

The Admiral is my favourite player of all time and I have no problem with people putting Giannis over him. Rightly or wrongly, Robinson just gets penalized because he was on some horribly constructed teams. He never had a running mate like Jrue Holiday or Khris Middleton (may be Sean could be considered a Middleton level guy) during his prime, but routinely dragged that horribly constructed team to 50+ wins year after year. Then the team's weakness got exploited and he was called out as a choker. Sure, Giannis choked before last year as well, but nobody remembers it because he climbed the peak being by far the best player on his team as his teammates covered for his weakness, but Robinson never had that luxury.

In summary, too bad for the Admiral. if he was on a team with a rugged big to do the dirty work and an all star level PG who can actually hit a three now and then to open up the paint, he could've won a ring or two in his prime, but he didn't.

As for Durant, the guy is just getting overrated like crazy. I just don't understand it.

[lefty]

a where perimeter players are being babied and coddled.
Like MJ was babied ad coddled by the league?

[Phenomanul]

Like MJ was babied ad coddled by the league?

After constantly being pummeled by the likes of the Bad Boy Pistons... the Celtics, the Sixers, the Knicks... Yeah, MJ was the beneficiary of phantom trips to the line, but he was also the recipient of many hard fouls. My primary argument was really in the context of the legality of hand-checking and how the lack of hand-checking in today's game makes today's players look like video game players in the 90s. IN OTHER WORDS, their games are made to look better. Imagine Ice Gervin playing in today's era - he would likely average over 35 PPG and make it look effortless.

[Phenomanul]

The Admiral is my favourite player of all time and I have no problem with people putting Giannis over him. Rightly or wrongly, Robinson just gets penalized because he was on some horribly constructed teams. He never had a running mate like Jrue Holiday or Khris Middleton (may be Sean could be considered a Middleton level guy) during his prime, but routinely dragged that horribly constructed team to 50+ wins year after year. Then the team's weakness got exploited and he was called out as a choker. Sure, Giannis choked before last year as well, but nobody remembers it because he climbed the peak being by far the best player on his team as his teammates covered for his weakness, but Robinson never had that luxury.

In summary, too bad for the Admiral. if he was on a team with a rugged big to do the dirty work and an all star level PG who can actually hit a three now and then to open up the paint, he could've won a ring or two in his prime, but he didn't.

As for Durant, the guy is just getting overrated like crazy. I just don't understand it.

I get the Giannis love... he's spectacular to watch. But defensively, he is no where near the caliber defender that Big Dave was. The four best defensive big-men (with all-around game) were Robinson, Duncan, Russell and Hakeem... everyone else is a tier lower and by a wide margin.

Which goes to show that Defense is not really being valued on this list. They want their one-dimensional players like Allen Iverson or Kevin Durant.

[lefty]

After constantly being pummeled by the likes of the Bad Boy Pistons... the Celtics, the Sixers, the Knicks... Yeah, MJ was the beneficiary of phantom trips to the line, but he was also the recipient of many hard fouls. My primary argument was really in the context of the legality of hand-checking and how the lack of hand-checking in today's game makes today's players look like video game players in the 90s. IN OTHER WORDS, their games are made to look better. Imagine Ice Gervin playing in today's era - he would likely average over 35 PPG and make it look effortless.
To be fair, they did call hand checking back then and flopping was a thing (Mahorn, Rodman, Magic, Jordan, Miller, Divac); also , players didn't get beheaded every time they went to the basket and they called a lot of soft ass fouls

Gervin?
Since we are talking about super skinny scorers, KD would average 50 ppg in the 1980's, much better scorer and more complete than Gervin and he would hav a field day in the ISO era

[Phenomanul]

To be fair, they did call hand checking back then and flopping was a thing (Mahorn, Rodman, Magic, Jordan, Miller, Divac); also , players didn't get beheaded every time they went to the basket and they called a lot of soft ass fouls

Gervin?
Since we are talking about super skinny scorers, KD would average 50 ppg in the 1980's, much better scorer and more complete than Gervin and he would hav a field day in the ISO era

Only skill that Durant has over Gervin is his deep ball... but that's because chucking threes was not encouraged in the 80's... It's clear to me that you never actually watched Gervin play. Also, hand-checking WAS allowed in the 80's but it's NOT ALLOWED in today's game - that makes perimeter players look better than they actually are (compared against their 80's peers).

[lefty]

Only skill that Durant has over Gervin is his deep ball... but that's because chucking threes was not encouraged in the 80's... It's clear to me that you never actually watched Gervin play. Also, hand-checking WAS allowed in the 80's but it's NOT ALLOWED in today's game - that makes perimeter players look better than they actually are (compared against their 80's peers).
:lol KD has better midrange , finishing , is a much better ball handler and passer, and while he's not known for his defense he is much better in that area than Gervin

But sure, he is better at only deep balls

Dude remove the nostalgia glasses

[Phenomanul]

:lol KD has better midrange , finishing , is a much better ball handler and passer, and while he's not known for his defense he is much better in that area than Gervin

But sure, he is better at only deep balls

Dude remove the nostalgia glasses

I never suggested that George Gervin was ever known for his defense. But Gervin was one of the kings of mid-range. It's debatable whether or not Durant was better in this area. But for Durant to be ranked as better than Hakeem or even better than Barkley or Malone (as much as I despise the latter) is not representative of their value.

[lefty]

I'll agree with you if you like all my posts

[Thomas82]

TD's always in my top 5. Not sure what my list would look like as I never saw a lot of these guys play.

My rough one would be :

1. MJ (A killer in crunch time with the game on the line. Not sure if there was better consistently in those situations as MJ)
2. Kareem (Nothing much needs to be said)
3. Lebron (Not a big fan as his as he needed stacked, stacked teams to win rings. He was also terrible in clutch situations for more than the first half of his career. I'd personally like to rank him lower)
4. Magic (He made the finals most of the time he played. I want to say it's because he played on stacked teams, but when I really think about it, there is other players that have been on stacked teams and never even made the finals once, so I'd say Magic was doing something right)
5. TD (TD I could put in the 3-5 range, but I am trying not to be too biased. If his knee and athleticism held up better and he had more of a prime like Hakeem did athletically/physically, I'd say he would have made the top 3)
6. Shaq (Very dominant when he was focused and locked in. Could have been as high as number 2 or even possibly number 1 if he took every game and season as seriously as Kobe did)
7. Hakeem
8. Wilt (Maybe he deserves to be higher, but I never saw him play so not sure of his competition or how high to rank him. His stats are too dominant to put him lower. Maybe he deserves to be top 5)
9. Larry
10. Kobe (personally, I like Kobe better than Lebron and Magic due to his killer attitude/instinct when the game was on the line, but I never saw Kobe get anywhere without a top 2 bigman in the NBA, so not sure how he would have done with a more balanced team and less dominant bigmen)

You have a solid list. I wouldn't have been mad at you for putting TD at #3. I personally can't put Magic or LeBron ahead of him.

[TD 21]

In addition to too many holdovers from the top 50 who the voters didn't have the chutzpah to leave out (Bing, Debusschere, Cunningham, Arizin, Wilkens, Greer, Cowens, Archibald, Reed, Monroe, Maravich, Lucas, Thurmond), there were too many support players of dynasties getting in (Sharman, Rodman, Parish, Jones, Worthy), of course with the Spurs being the exception.

P. Gasol, Howard, McGrady, Ginobili, Parker should have been automatics, with Bellamy, Mutombo, Gilmore, Irving, English, Hill, Lanier, Moncrief, Mourning, King, Webber, Bosh, Carter, Dantley having varying arguments.

As far as rankings, they're easy click bait/discussion fodder, but if you want the most accurate, unbiased portrayal possible, tiers make far more sense.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

You know what? Fuck this shit.

If we're doing a re-draft of players in the entire history of the ABA/NBA (set em all at age 18) --

Timothy Theodore Duncan is my #1 pick, every fucking time, no hesitation, no pondering, no thinking required. Automatic #1.

I don't care what rules we're arguing, what 'era', what style of play, what players I need to put in place around him -- it's Timmy D.

Because all Timmy does is win. He'll do whatever it takes, make whatever sacrifices, be there as a leader for his teammates no matter what. Not only being 'drama-free' or 'not negative' but being the single most positive influence to the whole organisation.

1,000+ wins for the same franchise. And not the lucking fakers or racist-ass celtics.

Tim Duncan is my #1.

(And because of Timmy, if we're re-drafting coaches I'm going with Popovich because Timmy would want it that way.)

[K...]

You know what? Fuck this shit.

If we're doing a re-draft of players in the entire history of the ABA/NBA (set em all at age 18) --

Timothy Theodore Duncan is my #1 pick, every fucking time, no hesitation, no pondering, no thinking required. Automatic #1.

I don't care what rules we're arguing, what 'era', what style of play, what players I need to put in place around him -- it's Timmy D.

Because all Timmy does is win. He'll do whatever it takes, make whatever sacrifices, be there as a leader for his teammates no matter what. Not only being 'drama-free' or 'not negative' but being the single most positive influence to the whole organisation.

1,000+ wins for the same franchise. And not the lucking fakers or racist-ass celtics.

Tim Duncan is my #1.

(And because of Timmy, if we're re-drafting coaches I'm going with Popovich because Timmy would want it that way.)

by default any top 100 list is going to be a popularity contest unless you stipulate some additional criteria like best starting block player or best skills basis. Duncan is probably barely top 20 in popularity but probably top 5 in complete skill. I expected Kobe and shaq to decline in popularity and they kind of did, both those guys were less complete players . But so long as basketeball is a skills game duncan should get rewarded more than any stats based or popularity based lists

[KobesAchilles]

1. Wilt
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Jordan
5. Kobe
6. Russel
7. Timmy
8. Larry
9. Magic
10. Shaq
11. Dr. J
12. Hakeem
13.. Moses.
14. Oscar:
15. Giannis ( I feel this is where he will end up)

[lefty]

1. Wilt
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Jordan
5. Kobe
6. Russel
7. Timmy
8. Larry
9. Magic
10. Shaq
11. Dr. J
12. Hakeem
13.. Moses.
14. Oscar:
15. Giannis ( I feel this is where he will end up)
You're going to upset a lot of Jordanites

[exstatic]

You're going to upset a lot of Jordanites

I’m honestly surprised he didn’t put Kobe ahead of him. I mean, 5 is an abomination, why not just put him at 1, and be done with it?

What a sad man, that all he could be was a cheap copy of Jordan. The saddest part is, that’s all he ever aspired to. He never wanted to be something new and unique.

[lefty]

I’m honestly surprised he didn’t put Kobe ahead of him. I mean, 5 is an abomination, why not just put him at 1, and be done with it?

What a sad man, that all he could be was a cheap copy of Jordan. The saddest part is, that’s all he ever aspired to. He never wanted to be something new and unique.
Agreed especially the last part

The rare times Kobe actually played his own brand of basketball he was actually fun to watch but 95% of the time he was copying Jordan

[daslicer]

Agreed especially the last part

The rare times Kobe actually played his own brand of basketball he was actually fun to watch but 95% of the time he was copying Jordan

Agreed. Surprisingly I thought Kobe would have been even a better player if he didn't focus being like Mike but just focus on winning. I still remember the '13 season his last great season he was playing some amazing ball after the Lakers had a poor start. He rallied them to get back into the playoffs after it seemed like they would miss the playoffs. I thought to myself if he played the type of ball, he was playing to win those games that he would have had an even more special career.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

So I just informally checked on BBRef and espn ... but it seems the most games under-.500 a Duncan team ever was, was when the team started out 0-3 in 2008-9.

so at worst, 3 games under .500 ... at any point in a season, in his career


now lebron had a nice game tonight and all, putting his hand-picked Lakers team on his shoulders to drag them to ... *checks notes* ... 7 games under .500

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

devastating

[Biggems]

Gervin is an underrated defender. Go look at his stats. He wasn't a great defender, but he was above average for his time period. Also, for most of his NBA career, there was no 3 pt line and he still led the NBA in scoring 4 consecutive years. Give him the 3 pt line from the beginning and he probably adds another 2-3,000 pts to his resume.