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View Full Version : Why America Has Been So Stingy In Fighting Child Poverty



RandomGuy
02-22-2022, 10:37 AM
Been saying this for years. We have concentrated too much on costs, and have ignored the benefits.

Unfortunately the radical right these days is so delusional as to pretend those benefits don't even exist.

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It was heralded as a game-changer for America's social safety net. It dramatically reduced child poverty. But, last month, the enhanced Child Tax Credit — a kind of "Social Security for kids" — expired, and millions of American children sank back into poverty.

In March 2021, President Biden and congressional Democrats revamped the Child Tax Credit as part of the American Rescue Plan. They restructured it, so that parents could get a monthly check from the government. They increased the credit's size, allowing parents to claim as much as $3,600 a year per child, or $300 a month. And they made the credit fully refundable, so that even super-low-income families who don't pay much — or anything — in federal taxes could get it.

For those primarily concerned with ending child poverty, these changes were a resounding success. Scholars at Columbia University found they reduced child poverty by about 30%. Another study found the enhanced program cut household food insufficiency by 26%.

But President Biden's efforts to renew the credit have been thwarted by opposition from Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and congressional Republicans. They disliked how much the program cost and how generous it was, and they worried that it would encourage parents to stop working because it did not have a work requirement.

According to the Tax Policy Center, the beefed-up Child Tax Credit would cost around $225 billion per year (about $100 billion more per year than the original version, which is now back in effect). For context, that's less than a quarter of the annual cost of Social Security, about a third of the cost of Medicare, and about the same as the budget for the Department of Agriculture. A report from the Urban Institute finds that even with the enhanced Child Tax Credit, America spent only about 7% of its federal budget on kids in 2021 — and that is now projected to decline.

As for how many parents stopped working as a result of the enhanced Child Tax Credit, estimates range from about 300,000 to 1.5 million. There are about 50 million working parents in the United States, so even if we accept only the highest estimate, more than 97% of parents continued working after receiving the payments. That makes sense because 300 bucks a month is hardly enough for most families to live on.

The failure of Washington to renew the enhanced Child Tax Credit continues a long tradition in America: Our welfare system has long spent generously on the old, but it has consistently skimped on the young. While America spends about as much, or even more on the elderly than many other rich nations, it spends significantly less on kids. Among the almost 40 countries in the OECD, only Turkey spends less per child as a percentage of their GDP. It's a big reason why the United States has a much higher rate of child poverty than most other affluent countries — and even has a higher rate of child poverty than some not-so-affluent countries.

In a new paper, the economists Anna Aizer, Hilary W. Hoynes, and Adriana Lleras-Muney explore the reasons why the United States is such an outlier when it comes to fighting child poverty. While they acknowledge the reasons are varied and complex, they focus their analysis on one factor: American policymakers, influenced by economists, have dwelled much more on the costs of social programs than their benefits.

The cost of focusing solely on costs
For decades, many American economists were pretty much obsessed with trying to document the ways in which welfare programs discouraged work, or broke up families, or encouraged pregnancy, while ignoring all the benefits that society gets from having kids grow up in a more financially secure environment. Aizer, Hoynes and Lleras-Muney analyzed research papers in America's top academic journals since the 1960s and found that prior to 2010, fewer than 27% of all articles about welfare programs even bothered to try to document their benefits.

Over the last decade, however, economists have increasingly been focusing on the benefits of such social programs. One reason for this is that research techniques and data have gotten much better, allowing researchers to see both the short- and long-term effects of programs. In recent years, economists have found all sorts of benefits that derive from government spending on kids, including better educational outcomes, fewer health problems, lower crime and incarceration rates, and higher earnings (and tax payments) when the kids become adults.

One recent study in a top economic journal, by Harvard economists Nathaniel Hendren and Ben Sprung-Keyser, analyzed the bang-per-buck of government spending programs. They found that social spending on kids stands out as having far greater returns for society over the long run than spending on adults. The returns are so large that it's possible that government spending on kids could end up paying for itself over those kids' lifetimes, through economic gains for the kids, and through reduced public spending on them through other social programs when they get older.

Aizer, Hoynes and Lleras-Muney argue that the evidence is clear: Social programs aimed at kids are investments, which have very real, measurable returns for society. "The returns of these investments ... can only be properly measured over the entire lifetime of the recipients and should be comprehensive in nature, including gains to schooling, health and other aspects of human wellbeing," Aizer, Hoynes and Lleras-Muney write.

However, they write, the federal government currently fails to take into account these long-term benefits. The Congressional Budget Office, which is the nonpartisan agency that informs lawmakers about the costs and benefits of programs, currently only looks at the effects of programs over ten years. "Many of the returns to investments in children are not realized for many years, once the children complete their education, attain young adulthood and enter the labor market," Aizer, Hoynes and Lleras-Muney write. "Thus, even if there were consensus on the long run benefits of a program (which might need to be predicted if a program is new), the long run benefits outside the 10-year window would not be included in the CBO scoring."

It's Not Just Economists' Fault
There are many other reasons why America continues to prioritize social spending on the elderly over investment in kids. Kids, of course, don't vote — and seniors do in droves. Aizer, Hoynes and Lleras-Muney point out that the AARP "boasted 38 million members and $1.7 billion in revenues in 2019." It's a powerful lobbying group. Kids, on the other hand, don't really have an analogue to the AARP. "The Children's Defense Fund, one of the major groups advocating for children in the US, reported revenue of $17.8 million in 2019, just 1 percent of AARP revenue," Aizer, Hoynes and Lleras-Muney write.

Another factor that may be behind the discrepancy is that while children may be a sympathetic group, government spending, generally speaking, doesn't go directly to them. It goes to their parents — and helping out parents sparks an age-old debate about fairness, work and individual responsibility that doesn't get opened up in the same way when giving money to the elderly.

But, arguably, the biggest factor of all in explaining why our social safety net looks the way it does is America's deeply fraught, racialized politics. That has been well-documented, including in a recent book by New York Times writer Eduardo Porter: American Poison: How Racial Hostility Destroyed Our Promise. Since the beginnings of the American welfare state, many Americans have disliked the idea of their tax dollars going to minorities or immigrants — and that has torn large holes in America's social safety net.

Even today, Aizer, Hoynes and Lleras-Muney argue, demographics may help explain why we spend so much more on seniors than kids. "The elderly population in the US is 77 percent white non-Hispanic in contrast to children who are slightly less than half white non-Hispanic," they write. "From the onset, the generosity and universality of anti-poverty programs have been a function of the racial composition of potential recipients."

Economists are now amassing a mountain of evidence that supports the notion that spending on kids has huge benefits, not just for kids themselves, but for society — and taxpayers — as a whole. While many economists in the past may have helped contribute to the scaling back of social programs by pointing out their costs, maybe now they will help contribute to building them back up by illuminating their ample benefits.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2022/02/22/1081373489/why-america-has-been-so-stingy-in-fighting-child-poverty

Trill Clinton
02-22-2022, 12:06 PM
I'm sure the party of family values has a solution for this.

Thread
02-22-2022, 12:16 PM
I'm sure the party of family values has a solution for this.

Too late, way too late. When you run a 50% divorce rate for 75+ years you're gonna answer for that in ways you will not believe.

RandomGuy
02-22-2022, 12:18 PM
I think forcing women to stay married to abusive husbands is awesome.

:rolleyes

RandomGuy
02-22-2022, 12:21 PM
I'm sure the party of family values has a solution for this.

Forcing unprepared women to be pregnant and keeping unhealthy relationships together is their solution.

It seems that any policy that actively increases human misery seems to be the "go to" solution, if they even can articulate something beyond finger wagging.

Trill Clinton
02-22-2022, 12:33 PM
Forcing unprepared women to be pregnant and keeping unhealthy relationships together is their solution.

It seems that any policy that actively increases human misery seems to be the "go to" solution, if they even can articulate something beyond finger wagging.

Its always been weird how they force these women who aren't financially or mentally ready to keep a child they can't care for but then shame them for accepting welfarehttps://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/beli.png

Or when these unprepared parents abuse their kids, the state removes them but doesn't have anywhere to place them because of a lack of funding so these kids end up sleeping on their case managers floor for a few days until a bed opens uphttps://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/snoop.png


This is the GOP when it come to our children

https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-1K4vs7rl1qSr9NBn-OG715A-t500x500.jpg

boutons_deux
02-22-2022, 12:36 PM
Children do not produce for Capitalism and

are a drain on government funds

so Capitalists say fuck them

like they say fuck costly old people who also aren't producing for Capitalists

RandomGuy
02-22-2022, 01:14 PM
Its always been weird how they force these women who aren't financially or mentally ready to keep a child they can't care for but then shame them for accepting welfarehttps://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/beli.png

Or when these unprepared parents abuse their kids, the state removes them but doesn't have anywhere to place them because of a lack of funding so these kids end up sleeping on their case managers floor for a few days until a bed opens uphttps://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/snoop.png


This is the GOP when it come to our children

https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-1K4vs7rl1qSr9NBn-OG715A-t500x500.jpg


We should measure the prosperity of a nation not by the number of millionaires, but by the absence of poverty, the prevalence of health, the efficiency of the public schools, and the number of people who can [and] do read worthwhile books.
- W.E.B. Du Bois, February 1953

SnakeBoy
02-22-2022, 09:52 PM
The answer is a return to traditional family values and our Lord Jesus Christ

His path is the only path

pgardn
02-22-2022, 10:30 PM
Too late, way too late. When you run a 50% divorce rate for 75+ years you're gonna answer for that in ways you will not believe.

Thats like about the lifetime of Donald Trump.
Wait, how many times did he get divorced and or fool around...

But you are with him because its fashionable...?

pgardn
02-22-2022, 10:39 PM
The answer is a return to traditional family values and our Lord Jesus Christ

His path is the only path

Totally believe in family.

And Im impressed with what real Christian churches try to accomplish with the poor and outcasts.
But you are the one who thinks you know what the path is. And if that path is what you write on this board well..
Christianity is fked.
Life of Jesus as I read it was one of compassion and sacrifice. And you exemplify these characteristics? You strive for this?

Nah... but because you know you are a sinner so its all ok. Dont even try, just accept and you are free to blatantly sin.

Thats bullshit. You have no path.

Thread
02-22-2022, 10:59 PM
Thats like about the lifetime of Donald Trump.
Wait, how many times did he get divorced and or fool around...

But you are with him because its fashionable...?

...No, I'm with him because he was put upon for the simple reason he made President, peeg. That wasn't right and (they) thought I/we would let it slide. I'm not lettin' it slide, ever. Both Trump and I seethe with it. He hides it, but he's enraged and lookin' for payback and any way he can fuck those who fucked him. Me. What you see is what you get. I hide nothing as you can readily see. His way is better, you get further, i.e., he made President. I'd love to know though, for sure about his frame of mind in regards to what I just stated and what I believe it is. Just so I would know.

As to divorce I'm not excusing anybody's behavior, I'm laying the facts out. (His) kids seem to have survived these divorces. But, they're rich, that is a difference maker.

Thread
02-22-2022, 11:02 PM
:rolleyes

You know I didn't say that, RG.

HemisfairArena
02-22-2022, 11:03 PM
How people still believe in a deity is beyond me. Egyptians had many then over time it got dwindled down to one but now religions fight over which of their deities is the best. Democrats couldnt even prove russian collusion in 4 years but Im suppose to believe in a deity that has never been proven to exist? And you want me to believe a dude named David fought a giant named Goliath with a slingshot and hurled a lucky shot while a guy named Noah built an Ark so big it housed all the creatures on the planet in pairs of two?,,,,next youll tell me the world is flat,,,,,anyway,,,thats for another thread. Women can make choices as well as men,,,,if they choose to have sex,,,,and get pregnant,,,thats on them,,,plain and simple. Just like drinking and driving,,,,you kill someone thats on you. No do overs. Dont come crying about how evil republicans are when the woman was to stupid to take precautions or keep her legs closed. Its not rocket science. You gamble and lose,,,you pay.

ElNono
02-22-2022, 11:33 PM
https://c.tenor.com/74lPb8mSRQMAAAAM/abe-simpson-abe-simpson-cloud.gif

HemisfairArena
02-23-2022, 12:08 AM
NoNo responding with cartoons,,,,nice. The democrat IQ knows no bounds,,,,

ElNono
02-23-2022, 12:39 AM
^^^ more rants from grandpa, somebody give him his meds

HemisfairArena
02-23-2022, 12:44 AM
^^^ more rants from grandpa, somebody give him his meds

What a response,,,nice job, NoNo.

ChumpDumper
02-23-2022, 02:37 AM
What a response,,,nice job, NoNo.

:lol triggered

HemisfairArena
02-23-2022, 02:41 AM
:lol triggered

triggered,,,,LMAO

SnakeBoy
02-23-2022, 03:20 AM
Totally believe in family.

And Im impressed with what real Christian churches try to accomplish with the poor and outcasts.
But you are the one who thinks you know what the path is. And if that path is what you write on this board well..
Christianity is fked.
Life of Jesus as I read it was one of compassion and sacrifice. And you exemplify these characteristics? You strive for this?

Nah... but because you know you are a sinner so its all ok. Dont even try, just accept and you are free to blatantly sin.

Thats bullshit. You have no path.

Without faith you have nothing, you are lost, you are angry, and you lash out like this.

I am guided by the Word of the Lord down the path of righteousness, and it angers you. Accept your Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and He shall grant you repentance.

ChumpDumper
02-23-2022, 03:34 AM
Without faith you have nothing, you are lost, you are angry, and you lash out like this.

I am guided by the Word of the Lord down the path of righteousness, and it angers you. Accept your Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and He shall grant you repentance.Wow, you really believe in nothing.

RandomGuy
02-23-2022, 07:58 AM
The answer is a return to traditional family values and our Lord Jesus Christ

His path is the only path

9/10 trolling. Topical, hard to differentiate from something that might be serious, and shows thought for the target audience. One of your better efforts.

RandomGuy
02-23-2022, 08:11 AM
The answer is a return to traditional family values and our Lord Jesus Christ

His path is the only path

So, if I am interested in selling my daughter into slavery, as traditionally sanctioned in Exodus as the head of her family, how do I determine how much to ask for?

My coworker recently worked on the Sabbath, am I morally obligated to kill her myself, or should I call the police?

Does the whole town really need to get together to stone my other coworker who planted two different crops side by side?

When my father wears garments of mixed cloths, can I stone him in a traditional family gathering, or do I also have to gather the whole town?

Maybe you can enlighten me as to what "traditional family values" you want, 'cause there are a lot of questions that need answering for that to happen.

RandomGuy
02-23-2022, 08:17 AM
Without faith you have nothing, you are lost, you are angry, and you lash out like this.

I am guided by the Word of the Lord down the path of righteousness, and it angers you. Accept your Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and He shall grant you repentance.

Meh.

Faith is the excuse people use when they have no good reason to think something is true. Faith is not a reliable pathway to any truth. It is, and always has been, merely a tool used to exploit the gullible.

Osteen, Swaggart, Hinn, Graham, Copeland, Baker. All of these conmen emphasize faith. They know the only thing it is good for: a scalpel to separate marks from their money.

Chucho
02-23-2022, 02:25 PM
Meh.

Faith is the excuse people use when they have no good reason to think something is true. Faith is not a reliable pathway to any truth. It is, and always has been, merely a tool used to exploit the gullible.

Osteen, Swaggart, Hinn, Graham, Copeland, Baker. All of these conmen emphasize faith. They know the only thing it is good for: a scalpel to separate marks from their money.

You name a handful of people out of a base of billions. Nice stereotyping. The Christian Conman has been replaced by the Hollywood celebrity grandstanding about morals and injustice and how to live while they take millions off sycophants. No difference between crooks like Joel Osteen and Colin Kaepernick...well, except making millions off slavery, but no difference.

People want to pretend their False Idols are right.

ChumpDumper
02-23-2022, 02:40 PM
:lol how did Kaepernick trigger you today?

koriwhat
02-23-2022, 02:59 PM
I'm sure the party of family values has a solution for this.

And I'm sure the party of no values will have absolutely no solution for this but will gas light you dipshits into believing otherwise. :tu

Trainwreck2100
02-23-2022, 03:02 PM
How people still believe in a deity is beyond me. Egyptians had many then over time it got dwindled down to one but now religions fight over which of their deities is the best. Democrats couldnt even prove russian collusion in 4 years but Im suppose to believe in a deity that has never been proven to exist? And you want me to believe a dude named David fought a giant named Goliath with a slingshot and hurled a lucky shot while a guy named Noah built an Ark so big it housed all the creatures on the planet in pairs of two?,,,,next youll tell me the world is flat,,,,,anyway,,,thats for another thread. Women can make choices as well as men,,,,if they choose to have sex,,,,and get pregnant,,,thats on them,,,plain and simple. Just like drinking and driving,,,,you kill someone thats on you. No do overs. Dont come crying about how evil republicans are when the woman was to stupid to take precautions or keep her legs closed. Its not rocket science. You gamble and lose,,,you pay.

That's what abortion is for and your people are trying to get rid of those and put the responsibility of taking care of those unwanted kids on the backs of everyone else anyway

koriwhat
02-23-2022, 03:05 PM
You name a handful of people out of a base of billions. Nice stereotyping. The Christian Conman has been replaced by the Hollywood celebrity grandstanding about morals and injustice and how to live while they take millions off sycophants. No difference between crooks like Joel Osteen and Colin Kaepernick...well, except making millions off slavery, but no difference.

People want to pretend their False Idols are right.

Damn bro you hit the nail on the head! I don't know what to think of you anymore Chucho because you've been blasted based shit for a while now and leaving me in shock. :tu

RandomGuy
02-23-2022, 03:11 PM
You name a handful of people out of a base of billions. Nice stereotyping. The Christian Conman has been replaced by the Hollywood celebrity grandstanding about morals and injustice and how to live while they take millions off sycophants. No difference between crooks like Joel Osteen and Colin Kaepernick...well, except making millions off slavery, but no difference.

People want to pretend their False Idols are right.

I named a handful of con-men, yeah.

But how many suckers are giving them money?

How many are tithing?

How many put money on the collection plate every sunday? or Friday? or saturday?

The legions of nameless con-men priests and imams and rabbis and the suckers who fork over money to them in every religion all talk of faith the same way.

That is just how religion works.

Faith is the tool for turning people's brain off and sucking money out of their pockets. Nothing more.

koriwhat
02-23-2022, 03:14 PM
I named a handful of con-men, yeah.

But how many suckers are giving them money?

How many are tithing?

How many put money on the collection plate every sunday? or Friday? or saturday?

The legions of nameless con-men priests and imams and rabbis and the suckers who fork over money to them in every religion all talk of faith the same way.

That is just how religion works.

Faith is the tool for turning people's brain off and sucking money out of their pockets. Nothing more.

Your dogma is the vaxx tbh... Your false idols are "the science". Prove me wrong bro!

SnakeBoy
02-23-2022, 03:26 PM
I named a handful of con-men, yeah.

But how many suckers are giving them money?

How many are tithing?

How many put money on the collection plate every sunday? or Friday? or saturday?

The legions of nameless con-men priests and imams and rabbis and the suckers who fork over money to them in every religion all talk of faith the same way.

That is just how religion works.

Faith is the tool for turning people's brain off and sucking money out of their pockets. Nothing more.

Chucho wins

RandomGuy
02-23-2022, 03:29 PM
Chucho wins

meh.

Faith is the excuse people give when they don't have good reasons to think something is true. You know this deep down, which is why you pass on trying to defend it.

koriwhat
02-23-2022, 04:39 PM
meh.

Faith is the excuse people give when they don't have good reasons to think something is true. You know this deep down, which is why you pass on trying to defend it.

And demonizing faith is something only people like you with your bitterness and black cold heart would defend. :tu

Chucho
02-24-2022, 02:26 PM
I named a handful of con-men, yeah.

But how many suckers are giving them money?

How many are tithing?

How many put money on the collection plate every sunday? or Friday? or saturday?

The legions of nameless con-men priests and imams and rabbis and the suckers who fork over money to them in every religion all talk of faith the same way.

That is just how religion works.

Faith is the tool for turning people's brain off and sucking money out of their pockets. Nothing more.

You assume that every dollar goes into some conman's pocket. Yeah, you're not going to be unbiased or prejudiced. But again, the False Prophet today is the celebrity. They get way more money off their marks than the best of the best Christian conmen.

Just replace "Christian" in your thought process the way most of whitey processes "black" or "colored folk" and that's you. Sad.

RandomGuy
02-24-2022, 02:59 PM
You assume that every dollar goes into some conman's pocket. Yeah, you're not going to be unbiased or prejudiced. But again, the False Prophet today is the celebrity. They get way more money off their marks than the best of the best Christian conmen.

Just replace "Christian" in your thought process the way most of whitey processes "black" or "colored folk" and that's you. Sad.

I would define all priests as conmen. So yes, every dollar. The only thing that differs is the scale.

Except "black" or "colored folk" are physical, unchanging characteristics.

Christians are defined by a (vaguely) common idea.

Analogy fail.

I would go further to say if you are convinced that there is a magic man in the sky that cares about you, you have probably not reached that conclusion out of any serious consideration of reality.

You can be butthurt about that fact, but reality does not care about your fee fees.

koriwhat
02-24-2022, 03:27 PM
I would define all priests as conmen. So yes, every dollar. The only thing that differs is the scale.

Except "black" or "colored folk" are physical, unchanging characteristics.

Christians are defined by a (vaguely) common idea.

Analogy fail.

I would go further to say if you are convinced that there is a magic man in the sky that cares about you, you have probably not reached that conclusion out of any serious consideration of reality.

You can be butthurt about that fact, but reality does not care about your fee fees.

You're so entrenched in your dogma you have 0 self awareness about it. It's hilarious!

RandomGuy
02-24-2022, 06:31 PM
Without faith you have nothing, you are lost, you are angry, and you lash out like this.

I am guided by the Word of the Lord down the path of righteousness, and it angers you. Accept your Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and He shall grant you repentance.

Fake-ass Christian.

More than one passage in that book tell you to speak plainly, honestly, and wisely about your faith.

When invited to do so, and offer a defense of that... you whiff. Just like every other thing you profess to believe.

My take: if you were genuine in this, which should be THE single most important thing to believe in, you would defend it.

As it is... a throwaway. tossed aside like so much cheap rags, its only purpose to achieve a fleeting bit of seratonin as a trolling attempt. smh

SnakeBoy
02-24-2022, 06:42 PM
Fake-ass Christian.

More than one passage in that book tell you to speak plainly, honestly, and wisely about your faith.

When invited to do so, and offer a defense of that... you whiff. Just like every other thing you profess to believe.

My take: if you were genuine in this, which should be THE single most important thing to believe in, you would defend it.

As it is... a throwaway. tossed aside like so much cheap rags, its only purpose to achieve a fleeting bit of seratonin as a trolling attempt. smh

https://rlv.zcache.com/biden_i_did_that_funny_anti_biden_sticker-r06e626a2d3764deab2d1ed5550c60681_08m34_704.jpg?rl vnet=1

RandomGuy
02-25-2022, 09:03 AM
https://rlv.zcache.com/biden_i_did_that_funny_anti_biden_sticker-r06e626a2d3764deab2d1ed5550c60681_08m34_704.jpg?rl vnet=1

Snakeboy: faith is really important to me.
Also Snakeboy: Faith isn't important enough to talk about seriously

:lmao

TeyshaBlue
02-25-2022, 09:23 AM
Ahhhh...the arrogance of perceived enlightenment on display again.
All priests are not con men. What a blindingly stupid, simplistic, binary train of psuedo-thought. Brushing aside the priests and religious organizations providing significant charitable works, you know like feeding and clothing and assisting poor and homeless, you instread zero in on the country club churches that spend more money on their new bowling alley for their member's rec center/activity building than any thing approaching community outreach. Yeah these creeps exist. But so do the other side of your blind, binary view of religion in general. I get it. As an atheist, I can honestly say I don't understand Christin faith. I can't, however simply dismiss it because I can't comprehend it. That path leads to abject ignorance. I do see the good in some religious activities which is something your prejudicial indictment of all priests as con men and all Christians as weak minded fools cant see. And that is, frankly, repugnant.