Top 10 players in the NBA

[mystargtr34]

1. Doncic
2. Jokic
3. Durant
4. Giannis
5. LeBron
6. Embiid
7. Steph
8. Morant
9. Harden
10. Trae

Kawhi is number 1 when healthy imo, arguably has been the best player in the league since 2016-2017 season when healthy.

Discuss…

[mystargtr34]

Ps now that black history month is over it’s safe to put Doncic and Jokic in the rightful place as the two best players in the world.

[Thanos]

I can’t put Luka at the top until he at least gets out of the first round. I know his team is trash but part of being the best is playoff success imo.

1. Durant
2. Giannis
3. Jokic
4. Doncic
5. Embiid
6. LeBron
7. Morant
8. Booker
9. Curry
10. Harden

[KobesAchilles]

I can’t put Luka at the top until he at least gets out of the first round. I know his team is trash but part of being the best is playoff success imo.

1. Durant
2. Giannis
3. Jokic
4. Doncic
5. Embiid
6. LeBron
7. Morant
8. Booker
9. Curry
10. Harden
Durant is washed now. He can't stay healthy to save his life. yeah he's great for 50 games a year. If I were Brooklyn I would shut him down until playoffs.

Giannis is clearly the best and there's almost zero debate about it. Dude is an iron man, plays great defense, rebounds, scores at ahigh and efficient rate, and passes well too.

Jokic is a hard player to judge. He's so amazing on offense but he will never lead his team anywhere bc of how horrible he is on defense and big men defense still matters in the postseason. He's like a make-a-wish kid when it comes to defense.

Luka could really easily be the best but he just gives zero fucks during the off-season. Like how do you show up fat and out of shape every single start to a season at age 22. Players need to be taking Chuck's advice more seriously. Find a nutritionist Luka and stay away from mc Donalds

Embiid is clearly a great player but something is just missing dawg wise with him. There was zero reason for him not to dominate ATL last year, but he just didn't. When things go great then he is an unstoppable force, but when he is met with any adversity or hard times then he shrinks and plays too soft.

Lebron isn't top 10 anymore. He's the new Russ Westbrick. he stat pads in blow out games and stays out there to get his numbers. He looks good on paper and his fans will say, what do you want he is averaging x amount of points. But he is just jacking up 3s now, playing zero defense, he doesn't set up teammates the same and he takes quarters off. There's no shame in it. he's old af in NBA years. But he isn't top 10. The only reason people have him there is bc he's lucky enough to play with Russ. Even if Russ was traded the issues on the team would be the same. They can't guard anybody and can't play hard for 48 minutes.

Morant is probably the MVP if we are being honest. The dude has Memphis as the 3 seed and they are about to be the 2 seed. He doesn't really have a weakness as a guard. He is just an unstoppable player.

Booker is having an underrated season and he will never get the love he deserves bc of Chris Paul. But Phoenix is still winning without CP3 and nobody is saying shit about it.

Curry has hit a wall. The dude has become so one dimensional as a player. He needs to go back to creating for others and getting to the paint instead of jacking up 35 footers. Yeah we know he can make them, but if you dribble drive more and set up teammates more than you wouldn't have to shoot those 35 footers. Draymond really is important to the team though bc he is the main creator of the offense since Steph gets so much attention

Harden played great for 3 games. Fuck him and his outta shape raggedy bearded ass. You can't quit on multiple teams in a row, have 3 good games and then be top 10 in the NBA

[lefty]

1 Jokic

[Neo.]

tbh its hard to make absolute rankings, especially with no clear cut #1 player anymore

tier 1 - giannis, jokic, durant
tier 2 - luka, lebron, embiid, steph, kawhi
tier 3 - morant, harden, pg, trae, book, cp3, ad

fringe - kat, dame, butler, tatum, mitchell, gobert

[Chris Fall]

Jokic's defense has improved by leaps and bounds this season. He will never be an elite athlete with highlight reel blocks. But he's a great position defender, great team defender. And unlike some big centers, he actually plays up on guards and wings out to the perimeter when he's switched onto them, instead of just sitting back in the paint. He's a better defender than Embiid and people don't say shit about Embiid's defense. Jokic has even won games at the defensive end this season.

Jokic is the best player in the league. And I think it's by a good margin personally.

I know it's only been this season he's really taken it to another level, but I'd be very tempted to rank Ja Morant in the top 5.

[lefty]

Jokic's defense has improved by leaps and bounds this season. He will never be an elite athlete with highlight reel blocks. But he's a great position defender, great team defender. And unlike some big centers, he actually plays up on guards and wings out to the perimeter when he's switched onto them, instead of just sitting back in the paint. He's a better defender than Embiid and people don't say shit about Embiid's defense. Jokic has even won games at the defensive end this season.

Jokic is the best player in the league. And I think it's by a good margin personally.

I know it's only been this season he's really taken it to another level, but I'd be very tempted to rank Ja Morant in the top 5.

[TD 21]

1. Doncic
2. Jokic
3. Durant
4. Giannis
5. LeBron
6. Embiid
7. Steph
8. Morant
9. Harden
10. Trae

Kawhi is number 1 when healthy imo, arguably has been the best player in the league since 2016-2017 season when healthy.

Discuss…

:lmao

Tiers are the way to go. Since the start of last season . . .

Tier 1: Jokic, Antetokounmpo, Embiid
Tier 2: Durant, James, Doncic
Tier 3: Curry, Harden
Tier 4: Butler, Paul

[mystargtr34]

:lmao

Tiers are the way to go. Since the start of last season . . .

Tier 1: Jokic, Antetokounmpo, Embiid
Tier 2: Durant, James, Doncic
Tier 3: Curry, Harden
Tier 4: Butler, Paul

Agree on the tiers being a good way to rank.

Spurs fans will always be butt hurt about Kawhi and can’t rank him honestly and subjectively 😉

[Texas_Ranger]

how the fuck do some of you not have Luka in tier one. Are u fucking blind or something. Even a fat Luka managed to keep that team that is dog shit in the playoffs.

[daslicer]

Agree on the tiers being a good way to rank.

Spurs fans will always be butt hurt about Kawhi and can’t rank him honestly and subjectively ��

And they are other spur fans like you that overrate him based off of the '19 run. He's not the best player in the league but is a top 5 player when healthy. He's had 2 straight playoff blemishes on his record since '19 that keeps him from being number 1.

[mystargtr34]

And they are other spur fans like you that overrate him based off of the '19 run. He's not the best player in the league but is a top 5 player when healthy. He's had 2 straight playoff blemishes on his record since '19 that keeps him from being number 1.

Agree its hard to rank players in the same tier, often they are interchangeable. Either way imo Kawhi is in tier 1 with Doncic, Jokic, Giannis and Durant. I'd take a healthy Kawhi in a playoff series over all of them by a hair. To me LeBron looks like he has lost another step this year. Embiid hasn't done enough in the playoffs.

About Kawhi, his 2017 playoff run was almost as dominant as 2019 until he got Zaza'd. 2019 run was arguably top 10 all time in terms of dominance.

What was his blemish in 2021? Tearing his ACL? He was the most dominant player in the NBA playoffs until that point. He averaged 32-8-5 on 61% FG and 43% 3PT with 2 STL and 1 BLK against Doncic and the Mavs in the 1st round, then 27-7.5-4 on 50% FG in 3.5 games against the Jazz.

2020 against the Nuggets was definitely a blemish. Even with that he still put up 33-10-5 on 54% FG in the first round win against the Mavs. Against the Nuggets he still put up 24-9-6 on 44% FG and they were a quarter away from beating the Nuggets 4-1. The bubble was a gimmick season but nonetheless it happened, it was an epic meltdown by the entire Clippers squad.

And his defensive impact is greater than anyone else in the discussion for the best player in the world, other than Giannis who is his equal on that end imo.

[Neo.]

still not fully sold on ja being some top 5 player yet. he looks fantastic of course, but clearly has a very good squad around him too. his team went 12-2 without him this year so far, beating some good teams in the process. that's not his fault, but I just wonder how much of it is him carrying his team, as opposed to being the most dynamic player on a very good team. I'd like to see how he performs in the playoffs.

[Neo.]

how the fuck do some of you not have Luka in tier one. Are u fucking blind or something. Even a fat Luka managed to keep that team that is dog shit in the playoffs.

he should be, but also deserves to be knocked a bit for constantly showing up to camp out of shape, and letting refs and trash talk get into his head way too easily. but if he can win a playoff series and continue his impressive playoff performances, and show up to camp next year in shape, then he will definitely have earned that tier 1 status, maybe even being the best player in the league.

[Neo.]

Jokic's defense has improved by leaps and bounds this season. He will never be an elite athlete with highlight reel blocks. But he's a great position defender, great team defender. And unlike some big centers, he actually plays up on guards and wings out to the perimeter when he's switched onto them, instead of just sitting back in the paint. He's a better defender than Embiid and people don't say shit about Embiid's defense. Jokic has even won games at the defensive end this season.

Jokic is the best player in the league. And I think it's by a good margin personally.

I know it's only been this season he's really taken it to another level, but I'd be very tempted to rank Ja Morant in the top 5.

idk, despite the injuries, before the KP trade he still arguably had a better supporting cast than an out of shape and unfocused luka, yet managed to be several games behind in the standings for most of the season

I won't argue with someone who thinks joker is the best player in the league, but to say by a good margin seems a bit of a stretch to me

[Neo.]

And they are other spur fans like you that overrate him based off of the '19 run. He's not the best player in the league but is a top 5 player when healthy. He's had 2 straight playoff blemishes on his record since '19 that keeps him from being number 1.

plus everyone objective knows the 19 run would have ended in 5 games in the finals had golden state been healthy. maybe a sweep

[mystargtr34]

plus everyone objective knows the 19 run would have ended in 5 games in the finals had golden state been healthy. maybe a sweep

Stop it that warriors team was bearable. James Harden and Chris Paul almost did it. That Raptors team in 2019 was deep and talented as fuck. That warriors series goes 6 or 7 if they are fully healthy.

Plus that warriors team had the karma coming, for Zaza in 2017, they benefited from injuries more than any championship team in history.

[Neo.]

Stop it that warriors team was bearable. James Harden and Chris Paul almost did it. That Raptors team in 2019 was deep and talented as fuck. That warriors series goes 6 or 7 if they are fully healthy.

lol that same raptors team was taken to 7 by Ben Simmons :lmao

yes they were very good but had weaknesses still, and simply weren't on par with a healthy warriors squad.


Plus that warriors team had the karma coming, for Zaza in 2017, they benefited from injuries more than any championship team in history.

that literally has nothing to do with what happened in 2019

[Chris Fall]

idk, despite the injuries, before the KP trade he still arguably had a better supporting cast than an out of shape and unfocused luka, yet managed to be several games behind in the standings for most of the season

Idk. Kind of difficult to compare supporting casts sometimes. Mind you, all season no Jamal Murray and only 9 games with Michael Porter. But just as you mentioned how the Grizz are 12-2 without Ja Morant this season, Dallas is 6-9 without Luka while Denver is 1-5 without Joker. So there is that. Team records help paint a picture, give some context. But ultimately, team record is more about the team collectively than the team’s franchise player. That’s why we don’t argue how Chris Paul or Devin Booker are better individual players than Jokic or Luka or Freak. Or even if he’s a legit MVP candidate, we don’t claim DeRozan is a top 5 or even top 10 player in the league.



I won't argue with someone who thinks joker is the best player in the league, but to say by a good margin seems a bit of a stretch to me

Fair enough. “Good margin” might be overstating my opinion. What I was trying to express was that I feel Jokic is the best player and it’s not a toss-up with him and other players, like Embiid, Freak, Luka or whoever. I just meant it’s clear for me that Jokic is the best player. “Good margin” might be too much. That’s fine. I’ll relent on the language.

I just feel that if you can agree that Jokic has improved enough defensively to be at least average or even just above average, then I’d argue he has no weakness. Offensively, we already know how unbelievably well-rounded and effective he is. He can beat you in pretty much every way possible offensively. With his scoring, outside jumper, post-up, backdowns, midrange game, his passing, offensive rebounding, in PNR, setting screens, in transition or in half court. He’s a savant offensively. You can say similar things about a few other guys too. But Jokic does it better, in totality anyway. And another thing is that even though he’s the focal point of everything for the Nuggz, he doesn’t necessarily need to dominate the ball the way other do-it-all players do, like LeBron or Harden or Freak. And he still puts up historic numbers.

I think he’s better than Embiid. I think he’s better than Freak. I think he’s probably like the stories they say about a young Arvydas Sabonis in Europe. I think Jokic is god-mode in this video game.

[Neo.]

Idk. Kind of difficult to compare supporting casts sometimes. Mind you, all season no Jamal Murray and only 9 games with Michael Porter. But just as you mentioned how the Grizz are 12-2 without Ja Morant this season, Dallas is 6-9 without Luka while Denver is 1-5 without Joker. So there is that. Team records help paint a picture, give some context. But ultimately, team record is more about the team collectively than the team’s franchise player. That’s why we don’t argue how Chris Paul or Devin Booker are better individual players than Jokic or Luka or Freak. Or even if he’s a legit MVP candidate, we don’t claim DeRozan is a top 5 or even top 10 player in the league.




Fair enough. “Good margin” might be overstating my opinion. What I was trying to express was that I feel Jokic is the best player and it’s not a toss-up with him and other players, like Embiid, Freak, Luka or whoever. I just meant it’s clear for me that Jokic is the best player. “Good margin” might be too much. That’s fine. I’ll relent on the language.

I just feel that if you can agree that Jokic has improved enough defensively to be at least average or even just above average, then I’d argue he has no weakness. Offensively, we already know how unbelievably well-rounded and effective he is. He can beat you in pretty much every way possible offensively. With his scoring, outside jumper, post-up, backdowns, midrange game, his passing, offensive rebounding, in PNR, setting screens, in transition or in half court. He’s a savant offensively. You can say similar things about a few other guys too. But Jokic does it better, in totality anyway. And another thing is that even though he’s the focal point of everything for the Nuggz, he doesn’t necessarily need to dominate the ball the way other do-it-all players do, like LeBron or Harden or Freak. And he still puts up historic numbers.

I think he’s better than Embiid. I think he’s better than Freak. I think he’s probably like the stories they say about a young Arvydas Sabonis in Europe. I think Jokic is god-mode in this video game.

I never disagreed he improved defensively

[TD 21]

Agree on the tiers being a good way to rank.

Spurs fans will always be butt hurt about Kawhi and can’t rank him honestly and subjectively 😉

Nah, I'm just not a Stockholm syndrome Spurs fan when it comes to him and saying he's been arguably the best player in the league for 5+ seasons is absurd.

If he can regain previous form, I'd put him in tier 3.

[Neo.]

also im not fully sold on booker being a true superstar either. his advanced stats are pretty lousy. i know individually they dont tell the whole story, but when basically all of them paint an underwhelming picture (bad ORTG DRTG differential, low WS/48, low BPM, low VORP, all of them being even worse in the playoffs), and your team is winning like crazy (because winning often drives a lot of those stats up), usually theres something wrong here.

i think the suns are just an incredibly well built team. they got a ton of guys with varying skillsets, but none have elite scoring skills (except CP3 at times, until he hits a tough playoff series). otoh, book has elite scoring skills and is pretty lousy at every other aspect of basketball. therefore everyone just covers each other up well and they have great chemistry. the more i think about it, i feel book may not be a tier 3 player.

[MultiTroll]

Doncic voting for Freak.

Luka Doncic Boldly Predicts Giannis Antetokounmpo Will Win 5 More MVPs (sportscasting.com) (https://www.sportscasting.com/luka-doncic-boldly-predicts-giannis-antetokounmpo-win-5-more-mvps/)

[ambchang]

Dejounte Murray.

[mystargtr34]

Jokic is just a monster. His net rating is crazy. Underrated on defense aswell

[Chris Fall]

Jokic is the most complete offensive big maybe ever. Certainly since the likes of Hakeem or Duncan. He does everything on offense not just well but exceptionally well. Jumper from midrange to distance, post scoring, footwork, touch shots like floaters, hooks, bank shots, ball handling and passing and facilitating, offensive rebounding, even setting screens, game and tempo control. Facilitates and passes like a point. Scores like a wing. Post presence of a big. Equally effective in transition and in half court. Can use bully ball or finesse and skill. Come to think, I honestly can't think of a more complete offensive player in the history of the game. And not just big men. Idk, maybe a young Bird?

He's shooting 64% on two point shots, unlike bigs who shoot that percentage who only make dunks and lay-ups, only half of Jokic's two point attempts are dunks and lay-ups.

The criticism that he needs to do it in the playoffs is fair. But just speaking about his talent and ability as an individual player, that talent offensively is unmatched imo.

[mystargtr34]

1. Doncic
2. Jokic
3. Durant
4. Giannis
5. LeBron
6. Embiid
7. Steph
8. Morant
9. Harden
10. Trae

Kawhi is number 1 when healthy imo, arguably has been the best player in the league since 2016-2017 season when healthy.

Discuss…

As I was saying tbh. New rankings

1. Doncic
2. Giannis
3. Jokic
4. LeBron
5. Durant
6. Embiid
7. Steph
8. Tatum
9. Butler
10. Morant

Lol at me putting Harden top 10. This version of Harden isn’t even top 25.

[Robz4000]

1. Giannis
2. Jokic
3. Embiid
4. Doncic
5. Durant
6. Lebron
7. Curry
8. Tatum
9. George
10. Davis? Leonard? Not sure tbh.

[monosylab1k]

After two rounds I’d say it’s

1. Giannis
2. Doncic
3. Jokic
4. Durant
5. Tatum
6. Embiid
7. LeBron
8. Curry
9. Butler
10. Morant

[lefty]

Luka is a Real Madrid legend :cry

[DMC]

Morant probably should be listed higher if he could stay healthy. Dude is scary.

[TD 21]

Tier 1: Jokic, Antetokounmpo
Tier 2: Embiid, Doncic
Tier 3: James, Durant
Tier 4: Curry, Tatum, Butler, Morant

After we just saw Davis and Harden expectedly not look the same post injury, Scumbag needs to reprove himself a top 10 player to reclaim his spot.

[Rosewood]

Tier 1: Jokic, Antetokounmpo
Tier 2: Embiid, Doncic
Tier 3: James, Durant
Tier 4: Curry, Tatum, Butler, Morant

After we just saw Davis and Harden expectedly not look the same post injury, Scumbag needs to reprove himself a top 10 player to reclaim his spot. if kawhi came back fully healthy, would you put him in 1 or 2?

[TD 21]

if kawhi came back fully healthy, would you put him in 1 or 2?

Not a chance. If he regains previous form, he's probably in tier 3.

[ambchang]

I can never understand how overrated Durant is. He is a fantastic scorer, even historically good, but other than that, no other aspect of his game was outstanding. He has a couple of years of really good advanced stats, but other than those 2 or 3 years, his numbers were rather average for an all-time great. He has been most often compared to Lebron James, which he is clearly inferior to. He is not good in leading his team deep into the playoffs, the two years he won the title his team was far and away the most stacked team in the league, and the entire offence was still revolving around Curry while the defence was around Draymond.

Not saying that he is not good, but he is not better than Embiid, Curry, Tatum, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, or James. I'd argue that this year, he is no better than Butler or Morant. All time wise, he's somewhere in the 25 to 30 range. I give him credit for building up his reputation into something more than what it was through building up his brand and persona, but when you look at his overall body of work, his best playoff run was likely last year (those GSW runs were a joke as he was routinely single teamed).

[DMC]

Tier 1: Jokic, Antetokounmpo
Tier 2: Embiid, Doncic
Tier 3: James, Durant
Tier 4: Curry, Tatum, Butler, Morant

After we just saw Davis and Harden expectedly not look the same post injury, Scumbag needs to reprove himself a top 10 player to reclaim his spot.

Red means removed. They aren't in the playoffs. We can stop considering Lebron James top 10 any day now.

[Texas_Ranger]

if you count the playoffs then Luka is for sure tier 1. And probably is the best playoff performer since MJ.

[lefty]

if you count the playoffs then Luka is for sure tier 1. And probably is the best playoff performer since MJ.

wow no on that last part

[Robz4000]

if you count the playoffs then Luka is for sure tier 1. And probably is the best playoff performer since MJ.

:lol I get Doncic is your boy but let's be real on that second part

[Texas_Ranger]

:lol I get Doncic is your boy but let's be real on that second part

has there been a game in the playoffs that he didnt perform good or had a disaster of a game? No. His worst game is probably game 2 in PHX and thats just cause he didnt play defense for a quarter, and even then he was by far the best Mavs player on the floor.
He needs more playoff series wins to be an all time great, but if i am looking at an individual performance, he always shows up. I cant say that about any other current player.

[Robz4000]

has there been a game in the playoffs that he didnt perform good or had a disaster of a game? No. His worst game is probably game 2 in PHX and thats just cause he didnt play defense for a quarter, and even then he was by far the best Mavs player on the floor.
He needs more playoff series wins to be an all time great, but if i am looking at an individual performance, he always shows up. I cant say that about any other current player.

He's been impressive so far but it's way too early to anoint him. In this current generation Giannis has a stronger case, and there's more than a few better since MJ (LeBron, Duncan, Dirk, Shaq, Nephew, Wade, Kirbs). As great as his offensive numbers are until he gets his conditioning together on defense to at least be average he won't join those players.

[Texas_Ranger]

He's been impressive so far but it's way too early to anoint him. In this current generation Giannis has a stronger case, and there's more than a few better since MJ (LeBron, Duncan, Dirk, Shaq, Nephew, Wade, Kirbs). As great as his offensive numbers are until he gets his conditioning together on defense to at least be average he won't join those players.

yea i dont have him as one of the greatest, but just as a great performer. If you compare his first 23 games, only MJ is better if we are comparing stats. Im sure these stats will most likely go down, but so far it has been impressive.

[Neo.]

it's a bit early to anoint him, but I will say this, I have not seen someone as unguardable as Luka since Jordan. maybe there is just a scheme we have yet to see, but fact is there has not been a single scheme or player that could stop Luka from doing anything he wants, except for himself when he overdoes the hero ball and stifles the offense (which was Mike's only real weakness as well)

all other greats since Mike (Kobe, Bron, Giannis, KD, Steph, Tim, Shaq, etc...) have had some type of offensive limitation or weakness that could be exposed. I've yet to see that truly exposed in Luka. maybe it will end up being his FT shooting, but it seems he's improved that quite a bit overall already.

time will tell, but eye test and stats both say he's pretty unstoppable so far

[Chris Fall]

I hated his game because I thought it involved over dribbling, blackhole ball dominating, and foul baiting, but Houston Rockets James Harden was about as unstoppable and unguardable an offensive force the league has ever seen, particularly for a perimeter player. And sure, a lot of it had to do with forcing foul calls by initiating contact and flopping. But it was gaming the system and it worked. His ability to get to the rim to force a foul call combined with his side step three made him an even tougher guard than LeBron imo.

And again, I hate to say it because I despised watching his game.

But I actually view Luka similarly in his variety of offensive skills, ability to use both strength and finesse/skill, and ability to attack whatever kind of defender or defense is played on him. The one thing I hope with Luka is that he finds a better balance with his ball dominating isolation approach on offense and him being being able to trust his teammates and becoming more effective playing off the ball. Harden never evolved his game that way. And I don't mean Luka simply being able to let other guys like Brunson and Dinwiddie take over while he stands and watches from the weakside elbow. I mean Luka actually playing off the ball, setting screens, then cutting and slashing, forcing defenses to chase him even without the ball, running the wings on a break where he's the finisher and not the guy leading the break, posting, kicking back out, then reposting, forcing the defense to work a little bit more.

I agree that Luka is already one of the most unguardable scorers ever. I think he can be even better.

[Texas_Ranger]

Luka ball hogging is not even close to Hardens. Dallas stoots the best quality and most open shots in the playoffs and its not even close.... And most of those shots are created by Luka. Also, James Harden was a great regualar season players, but that never really translated into the playoffs.

[monosylab1k]

Luka ball hogging is not even close to Hardens. Dallas stoots the best quality and most open shots in the playoffs and its not even close.... And most of those shots are created by Luka. Also, James Harden was a great regualar season players, but that never really translated into the playoffs.

Luka late in games has definitely had Harden-esque instances where he kills the offensive flow and takes way too long to get into his action. Then teams trap him late in the shot clock, Luka passes it, and the guy receiving the ball either panics and runs out of time (DFS, Kleber) or has to jack up a terrible shot (Dinwiddie, Brunson).

It happened most notably in Game 6 vs Utah which should have been an easy win, but Luka pounding the air out of the ball in the last 3 minutes almost lost the game. Game 6 vs Phoenix he started killing the momentum in the same way in the second half, but it seems like he realized it and started moving the ball to Brunson & Dinwiddie earlier.

It’s a nitpick, but a couple bad sequences like that could be the difference between winning a title or not.

[Chris Fall]

I wasn't suggesting Luka is exactly like Houston James Harden. Of course they aren't the same. And it wasn't meant as a slight to Luka, whose game is way more enjoyable to watch. But I do think there are similarities.

I only mentioned Harden in response to the idea that Luka is the most unguardable player since Jordan. Whether you like Harden's game or hate it, there was a stretch of idk 3-4 seasons where I would argue Rockets James Harden was the most unguardable offensive player in the league, and in the most dominant way probably since Shaq. I put that version of James Harden as more unguardable than LeBron or Durant or Steph. You just couldn't stop him from getting to the rim without fouling him. And when he started to hit those sidestep threes at a high rate, you simply couldn't even contest those shots.

This coming from a true diehard James Harden hater. I abhorred his game. Hated the 50 back and forth crossover dribbles thru his legs every set. Hated watching him hook defenders' arms then flailing his to get whistles. Hated seeing a 5 out offensive set where Harden was at the top of the key for 18-20 seconds and his 4 teammates were just standing and watching. Despised it all.

But still unguardable.

[Neo.]

I hated his game because I thought it involved over dribbling, blackhole ball dominating, and foul baiting, but Houston Rockets James Harden was about as unstoppable and unguardable an offensive force the league has ever seen, particularly for a perimeter player. And sure, a lot of it had to do with forcing foul calls by initiating contact and flopping. But it was gaming the system and it worked. His ability to get to the rim to force a foul call combined with his side step three made him an even tougher guard than LeBron imo.

And again, I hate to say it because I despised watching his game.

But I actually view Luka similarly in his variety of offensive skills, ability to use both strength and finesse/skill, and ability to attack whatever kind of defender or defense is played on him. The one thing I hope with Luka is that he finds a better balance with his ball dominating isolation approach on offense and him being being able to trust his teammates and becoming more effective playing off the ball. Harden never evolved his game that way. And I don't mean Luka simply being able to let other guys like Brunson and Dinwiddie take over while he stands and watches from the weakside elbow. I mean Luka actually playing off the ball, setting screens, then cutting and slashing, forcing defenses to chase him even without the ball, running the wings on a break where he's the finisher and not the guy leading the break, posting, kicking back out, then reposting, forcing the defense to work a little bit more.

I agree that Luka is already one of the most unguardable scorers ever. I think he can be even better.

yep losing some weight and improving his conditioning should help him have more energy to expend in his off ball offense. definitely should be Kidd's next point of focus for Luka for his development

[Neo.]

I wasn't suggesting Luka is exactly like Houston James Harden. Of course they aren't the same. And it wasn't meant as a slight to Luka, whose game is way more enjoyable to watch. But I do think there are similarities.

I only mentioned Harden in response to the idea that Luka is the most unguardable player since Jordan. Whether you like Harden's game or hate it, there was a stretch of idk 3-4 seasons where I would argue Rockets James Harden was the most unguardable offensive player in the league, and in the most dominant way probably since Shaq. I put that version of James Harden as more unguardable than LeBron or Durant or Steph. You just couldn't stop him from getting to the rim without fouling him. And when he started to hit those sidestep threes at a high rate, you simply couldn't even contest those shots.

This coming from a true diehard James Harden hater. I abhorred his game. Hated the 50 back and forth crossover dribbles thru his legs every set. Hated watching him hook defenders' arms then flailing his to get whistles. Hated seeing a 5 out offensive set where Harden was at the top of the key for 18-20 seconds and his 4 teammates were just standing and watching. Despised it all.

But still unguardable.

when he utilized his skills I agree. unfortunately for him, his weakness comes from his mental approach, where he consistently disappears or stops shooting when defensive intensity is ramped up and in big games

Kobe is as or more unguardable than harden (in terms of sheer skills), but he had a mental issue too where he could be baited into bad and dumb shots really easily

Luka doesn't seem to have either of those issues, he definitely does not shy away from any kind of defense (unlike harden), and doesn't get baited into stupid shots consistently, as he always is looking for the easiest possible shot when using his footwork and will generally pass out if a clean shot isn't there (unlike Kobe)

[lefty]

when he utilized his skills I agree. unfortunately for him, his weakness comes from his mental approach, where he consistently disappears or stops shooting when defensive intensity is ramped up and in big games

Kobe is as or more unguardable than harden (in terms of sheer skills), but he had a mental issue too where he could be baited into bad and dumb shots really easily

Luka doesn't seem to have either of those issues, he definitely does not shy away from any kind of defense (unlike harden), and doesn't get baited into stupid shots consistently, as he always is looking for the easiest possible shot when using his footwork and will generally pass out if a clean shot isn't there (unlike Kobe)

The 2004 Pistons easily baited Kobe into taking bad shots, and Shaq was dominating Big Ben

[lebomb]

Doncic
Jokic
Durant
Giannis
LeBron
Embiid
Steph
Morant
Kawhi
Tatum


These are my top 10 in no particular order

[TD 21]

Red means removed. They aren't in the playoffs. We can stop considering Lebron James top 10 any day now.

So. :lmao

[MultiTroll]

Freak
Joker
Doncic
Lebron
WarriorRef
Embiid
LaMelo
Curry
Durant
Morant

[DMC]

The fact Harden cannot perform when the opponent cares to play means he's a fugazi. Harden treats RS games so special because he's playing for Harden, but the playoffs are team events and the series doesn't seem to interest James much.

[FrostKing]

Lebron, Durant and Curry

Some of you fellas living in the past

[Robz4000]

Welp, can finally say Doncic had a bad playoff game.

[Texas_Ranger]

yeap that was bad... He also has a shoulder problem. Dont know why he didnt use those straps yesterday, as he has been having them in the playoffs a lot.

[MultiTroll]

WarrorRef the most impactful player?

I had WR ranked 5th but as far as impact / outcome we'll see how this Finals vs Boston continues.
Dominant in Game 2.

[MultiTroll]

Stop it that warriors team was bearable. James Harden and Chris Paul almost did it. That Raptors team in 2019 was deep and talented as fuck. That warriors series goes 6 or 7 if they are fully healthy.
Game 5 or so vs Houston was the infamous karate chop intentional foul by Warrior defender on Rocket going up for 3 pointer. No call.

Yes the headlines will read how many treys the Rockets missed, and indeed they sucked.
Reports won't say how much bullshit WarriorRef brought.

2019 you won't ever hear Warriors honks discussing how many minutes Klanus did play.
And the games they lost with Klanus doing 35+.

[FrostKing]

.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

I can never understand how overrated Durant is. He is a fantastic scorer, even historically good, but other than that, no other aspect of his game was outstanding. He has a couple of years of really good advanced stats, but other than those 2 or 3 years, his numbers were rather average for an all-time great. He has been most often compared to Lebron James, which he is clearly inferior to. He is not good in leading his team deep into the playoffs, the two years he won the title his team was far and away the most stacked team in the league, and the entire offence was still revolving around Curry while the defence was around Draymond.

Not saying that he is not good, but he is not better than Embiid, Curry, Tatum, Jokic, Luka, Giannis, or James. I'd argue that this year, he is no better than Butler or Morant. All time wise, he's somewhere in the 25 to 30 range. I give him credit for building up his reputation into something more than what it was through building up his brand and persona, but when you look at his overall body of work, his best playoff run was likely last year (those GSW runs were a joke as he was routinely single teamed).

although Durant put Team USA on his backo in Tokyo