Game Thread: Timberwolves at Spurs — Monday, March 14, 2022 | 7:30 PM CT

[John B]

Spurs Injuries: Devontae Cacok (Questionable— Heel), Joe Wieskamp (Probable — Congestion), Romeo Langford (Out — Hamstring), Keita Bates-Diop (Out — Back), Doug McDermott (Out — Ankle)


Timberwolves Injuries: Patrick Beverley (Game Time Decision — Ear), Naz Reid (Game Time Decision — Back), Anthony Edwards (Game Time Decision — Knee), Jordan McLaughlin (Game Time Decision — Groin), Jarred Vanderbilt (Out — Quadriceps)

Keep the tank rolling :downspin::downspin::downspin:

[BatManu20]

Go huskies tbh.

[heyheymymy]

:flag:

[heyheymymy]

no reason to win a single game the rest of the season

[heyheymymy]

Zollins out there early running post and shooting drills

[heyheymymy]

DJ season avg 21/9/8/2

real deal

[tim_duncan_fan]

If they start off shitty, I'm going back to Attack on Titan.

[lefty20]

Looks like KAT is priming up for a 50 piece on us.

[slick'81]

Keep the tank rolling guys

[LakerHater]

Murray being careless with his passes!

[Dejounte]

Neither team is missing today

[Dejounte]

Tbh Keldon is almost the perfect compliment to Murray.. doesn’t need the ball in his hands.. content with his scoring opportunities coming from spot up shooting.. attacks the basket when there’s a good opportunity.. if he can up his scoring even more, that’s a legit 20+ ppg scorer.

[Sugus]

Keldon's gotta shoot so many more of those 3s. He's got the form and the strength. I hope he focuses on shooting even more this upcoming offseason.

[Sugus]

He's in "making bullshit shots" territory :lol

[emanueldavidginobili]

They're not even guarding Tre on the perimeter

[Robz4000]

Murray having the worst game I've seen from him this season.

[Sugus]

Mama, Lonnie really is starting to play like the player he thinks he is. League better watch out

[Sugus]

:wow

[heyheymymy]

Zollins swatting everything

[BatManu20]

Spurs getting some home-cookin’ tonight

[Dejounte]

Love Murray consistently attacking the basket when he’s having a bad game overall

[Sugus]

Pat Bev trying to counter-ref us :lmao

[Sugus]

Tre Jones passing up open 3's makes me so irrationally angry, every single time man. You ain't gonna make 'em if you're scared to take 'em.

[PhantomDashCam]

Perfect example of officials overusing the whistle…and having no control of the game. Horrendous

[Sugus]

Damn this is a good game in spite of the refs, both teams came to play...

[GB20]

This game feels like a playoff game.

[ismael-robert]

Anyone see why Lonnie passed up layup on fast break

[Dejounte]

Interesting here is apparently DLo isn’t a point guard now? Guess I missed that. He’s mainly being used off the ball. Turned into a Spurs version of White on that team. Well, I don’t actually know if White is being used as the defacto PG off the bench for the Celts now…

[Dejounte]

Two awesome passes inside by DJ

[PhantomDashCam]

D’lo whacks himself and is upset at DJ and the refs…:lol

[SPURt]

DJ, KJ, and Jakob a lot of fun to watch. They’ve all shown up this year. Too bad we can’t get prime Tim Duncan back lol

[John B]

3 blocks for Zack Dikembe Zollins in the half

[wildbill2u]

Pop took DJ out in the first quarter because he was turning the ball over via bad passes and getting stripped when going into the lane.

[Sugus]

:lmao refs are out to steal the show tonight, what's this shit...

[heyheymymy]

Keldon on absolute fire

[emanueldavidginobili]

Another opposing player scoring a ridiculous amount verse the Spurs lmao.

[Dejounte]

Once the refs stop being whistle happy, KAT is going to go off. Nothing is stopping him in this game. Probably going to be a 60 pt game for him.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Love that DJ isn't settling for mid range shots and attacking the basket.

[Sugus]

:lmao refs are out to steal the show tonight, what's this shit...

[Dejounte]

LMAO. Someone can be heard saying “NOBODY PAID TO SEE YOU” to the refs on the broadcast

[John B]

3 blocks for Zack Dikembe Zollins in the half

[Robz4000]

:lol this game won't be over til tomorrow

[LakerHater]

Collins is trash

[Leetonidas]

Spurs getting humiliated on their home court again:lol

[Robz4000]

KAT gonna get 80?

[td4mvp2k]

this team is hot garbage

[Robz4000]

Spurs getting humiliated on their home court again:lol

Its mostly good defense against KAT, he's just unconscious right now.

[lefty20]

Looks like KAT is priming up for a 50 piece on us.

tbh

[SPURt]

Damn, KAT gonna go north on 60

[PhantomDashCam]

Once the refs stop being whistle happy, KAT is going to go off. Nothing is stopping him in this game. Probably going to be a 60 pt game for him.

Good call. :tu

[daslicer]

Shit, I looked briefly at the box score and thought the game was over. KAT could possibly get 70.

[KobesAchilles]

KAT gonna get 80?
What makes is more impressive is that he’s doing it against another Top 10 center in the league. Poeltl also has the best defensive metrics of any center in the past 3 years. Just to put things into perspective

[Gibbz]

56 & 14 through three quarters--goodness.

[Harry Callahan]

You allow a player to score 32 points in a quarter?

That's disgusting and should never happen. Bust him up a little bit and act like you care.

[lefty20]

Damn, KAT gonna go north on 60

Good news is that the lead will be 20+ by then so he won't get a shot to eclipse Admiral's 71.

[lefty20]

DJ missed a wide open J-Rich there.

[Dejounte]

If this is the game DJ realizes he can be more efficient by driving to the hoop, whether he makes or misses them, then this game is a win. If he misses it, there’s a chance for free throws. It’s the next step for his evolution as a player. I think we’ll see a more efficient DJ to close out the season.

[emanueldavidginobili]

This team is continuously overmatched athletically each and every game.

[Harry Callahan]

Looks like the Raptors will win again 13-2 over the Lakers (Tankers) now. Keep it up.

The Spurs need a serious infusion of high quality talent over the next couple of years.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Timberwolves easily won this game without max effort. Wolves now 10 games over 500 while the Spurs are 17 games under. Harsh reality tbh.

[gambit1990]

This team is continuously overmatched athletically each and every game.
and there's no mass personnel change coming up.

there's still plenty of reason to worry about this team, despite the high draft pick.

the spurs won't be looking like the grizzlies anytime soon...

[BackHome]

Yeah and one year of tanking is not going to fix us overnight

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Jeezus we can’t stop anyone.

[Barfunk]

Dammit Perdle slam it you fucking stiff

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

140….wtf

[Harry Callahan]

The team generally plays hard but lacks the raw talent who can take over games. DJM is a fine player. Several other guys can be part of a winning program. Minnesota has been a dumpster fire FOR YEARS and accumulated a bunch of lottery players and are now what a 7th seed.

This rebuild will be difficult without a transcendent player at the moment.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This is sad.

[twincam]

Wow, these guys really suck.

[paperboy77]

Spurs doing the right thing here. Lose baby lose!

50-32 next season.

[GAustex]

Every position the Wolves are bigger/stronger

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Glad we could give another opposing player a career night, tbh.

[Harry Callahan]

They'll win 50 games in 3-5 years if they are lucky. Next year will be rough.

[Dejounte]

Aside from the dumbass who just logged into his other username, folks seem to have this expectation that losing would look glamorous.

[Degoat]

Haven’t watched the 2nd half but this is my problem with Jakob… how the fck are you gonna let KAT drop 60 On you!!!

[Barfunk]

Could be worse. Could have a team with 2 former MVPs in LeEspn and Westbrook, and still have a piss poor record.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Could be worse. Could have a team with 2 former MVPs in LeEspn and Westbrook, and still have a piss poor record.

Good point. At least the Spurs didn’t mortgage their future putting this squad together.

[td4mvp2k]

any way poop can leave now

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Aside from the dumbass who just logged into his other username, folks seem to have this expectation that losing would look glamorous.

This has actually been one of the most fun losing teams I’ve ever watched. I’m amazed how close they keep most games. I’ve enjoyed this group more than the previous two seasons’ duds.

[poopbox]

Another big putting up record numbers against Poeltl :lol

[tim_duncan_fan]

We need to draft as early as possible and no one under 6'7 with long arms unless they are an athletic scorer.


This has actually been one of the most fun losing teams I’ve ever watched. I’m amazed how close they keep most games. I’ve enjoyed this group more than the previous two seasons’ duds.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/9vA7QcAEttfEAv_FL8qAk83Q-5s=/0x0:1280x720/1400x1400/filters:focal(477x157:681x361):format(png)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/51965567/Ditto_Number_1.0.png

[boutons_deux]

3 games out of playin

Has anybody ever scored a 150 points on pop in our gym?

Second half of the third quarter kill the Spurs, after that it was just swapping baskets

[boutons_deux]

Haven’t watched the 2nd half but this is my problem with Jakob… how the fck are you gonna let KAT drop 60 On you!!!

Jacob is always a step or two late trying to block a layup.

I wonder if he even looks at the ball when he puts his hand up to block, or is putting up his hand just pro forma and hoping

[timtonymanu]

Good point. At least the Spurs didn’t mortgage their future putting this squad together.

Pretty damn laughable. That team had championship expectations, we didn’t. And they’re barely better than us. :lol

[Darius Bieber]

Man, we should have signed COVID-19 to a ten day contract to guard KAT

[XDT76]

Jacob is always a step or two late trying to block a layup.

I wonder if he even looks at the ball when he puts his hand up to block, or is putting up his hand just pro forma and hoping

If he just put his hands up and hope then he is really lucky as he is fourth in BPG.

[Barfunk]

Good point. At least the Spurs didn’t mortgage their future putting this squad together.

That as well.

[itzsoweezee]

What a weird season. Can’t even tank at this point because the Spurs aren’t going to catch the six teams “ahead” of them in the lottery.

[KobesAchilles]

any way poodle can leave now
Fixed it for you

[XDT76]

What a weird season. Can’t even tank at this point because the Spurs aren’t going to catch the six teams “ahead” of them in the lottery.

We got a chance at Sac

[Dejounte]

Good call. :tu

Landed exactly at 60 too. Haha

[NASpurs]

Another big putting up record numbers against Poeltl :lol

Yeah please trade him seriously .

[John B]

Bitches want to tank but bitch about losing. That’s just nagging :lol:lol

[BatManu20]

Idc if a player scores 60 on us every game the rest of the way so long as we lose. Just lose every game tbh. That’s all that matters.

[BatManu20]

We got a chance at Sac

We don’t sadly. We’re going to win Wednesday and we’ll beat blatantly tanking Portland all 3 times we play them.

[poopbox]

Poeltl defense was so bad in this game he killed Scott Hall :cry

[buttsR4rebounding]

Poeltl defense was so bad in this game he killed Scott Hall :cry

Yet Poeltl was the only one who played big minutes and was +3 while on the floor. This game is a perfect example of why Keldon should be traded to improve the team. He lead the team in scoring but was -18–worst on the team. JRich scored 2 points and was at 0. I know it’s just one game, but it’s typical of the whole season.

[RC_Drunkford]

That was a good L. Keep the tank rollin

[offset formation]

Bitches want to tank but bitch about losing. That’s just nagging :lol:lol

Is it ok to bitch that we lose but seem to still be trying to win? That's my biggest issue. What did Primo get? 10 min?

[Rocalcio]

Looks like KAT is priming up for a 50 piece on us.

A bit more actually...

[John B]

Is it ok to bitch that we lose but seem to still be trying to win? That's my biggest issue. What did Primo get? 10 min?

First, Primo is still wayyy far from a rotational player imo. Pop is tanking, but is putting a competitive group out there enough to teach. It’s not Rockets’ style of tanking in contrast where players just hurl 3’s. That’s why Primo is not getting a lot of minutes as fans might want. Secondly, Pop is showcasing players like Lonnie or JRich (Primo who will be more likely staying don’t need to). Either showcasing players for their next contract, adding to their value for a possible trade chip, while also auditioning for Spurs’ roster spot next season.

So yeah I still want to see them play competitive and Lose.

[poopbox]

Yet Poeltl was the only one who played big minutes and was +3 while on the floor. This game is a perfect example of why Keldon should be traded to improve the team. He lead the team in scoring but was -18–worst on the team. JRich scored 2 points and was at 0. I know it’s just one game, but it’s typical of the whole season.

Don't think Keldon should be traded, he should just be moved to the 3 and we get a real power forward. As much as I shit on Poeltl, he is the only thing we have resembling a rim protector on this team. When he is getting cooked it aint like the Spurs can do anything defensively to help him at all. Keldon doesn't offer an resistance around the rim, doesn't defend the rim, isn't a great defensive rebounder, etc.

Him being +3 just means he was on the floor when the T Pups were missing wide open shots, not cause he played well. He had one of the worst defensive performance I have seen from a big in a long time tonight.

Good for the tank, but in order for us to become a respectable nba team again, Poeltl has to either be gone or be a backup, and Keldon has to be moved to the 3 so we can get a real PF.

[Dex]

What a weird season. Can’t even tank at this point because the Spurs aren’t going to catch the six teams “ahead” of them in the lottery.

Yeah...unless some lotto balls bounce our way, I see us back in the 8-12 position again when all is said and done.

[Dex]

Bitches want to tank but bitch about losing. That’s just nagging :lol:lol

Especially games like this. It would be one thing if the Spurs blew a late lead or something because, win or lose, I want to see these young guys learn how to close out games which has been a problem all season long. I'm all for the tank at this point, but it's still frustrating to watch the team fall apart in the 4th quarter...that wasn't really the case tonight.

Spurs were never really in this game, and we got to see KAT drop a 60-piece so I thought it was a pretty entertaining game despite the loss.

[Sugus]

Yet Poeltl was the only one who played big minutes and was +3 while on the floor. This game is a perfect example of why Keldon should be traded to improve the team. He lead the team in scoring but was -18–worst on the team. JRich scored 2 points and was at 0. I know it’s just one game, but it’s typical of the whole season.

Jeez, it's almost like stats manage to actually capture what happens in the game, instead of the "eye test" of stupid people who don't understand what they're watching yet are the first ones to talk like they do. Box +/- is not a good stat to throw around for single games most times, but it's great in this scenario, perfectly captures what happened. I don't even want to look at Zollins' +/- because I already know how awful it is, yet I don't see anyone complaining about him... Interesting.

It's absolutely been a trend for the entire season too, and after it's over, the entire team/lineups +/- should be telling of who actually contributed to winning and who didn't.

On that same note, it's insane that Keldon had a 30 point game but had the worst +/- of the entire team. Jesus. I know he's been awful on D and his job at "PF", but that's some next-level shit.

[Sugus]

Went and checked anyways.

Jakob 29 minutes, 9-12 FGM (3/4 FTs is the most impressive part here lol), 21 points, only positive +/- of the starters with +3.

Zollins 19 minutes, 2-7 FGM, 5 points, and a -13 +/-, second worst on the team after our starting PF.

But sure, one's definitely the problem and the other faultless... Lmao. At this point it's obvious that people don't like Jakob or his playstyle and put their personal feelings of it before their evaluation of his play (interestingly, Rudy Gobert faces this exact same issue with Jazz fans and media alike, and is also scapegoated for the incompetence of his teammates).

Like him or hate him, the stats never lie (though they can be interpreted in a twisted way; not like that's happening here, but still).

E: also wanna add, re: Keldon, that Taurean Prince ate him up last night. Prince had a great game, scoring 13pts (season average of 6ppg) and just outhustling, outmuscling, and outdoing Keldon at every turn. I actually expected his boxscore to be better than it shows, because he popped off the screen last night. That's exactly the kind of PF the Spurs should be aiming for, and he was a great help to KAT's big night.

[KobesAchilles]

Went and checked anyways.

Jakob 29 minutes, 9-12 FGM (3/4 FTs is the most impressive part here lol), 21 points, only positive +/- of the starters with +3.

Zollins 19 minutes, 2-7 FGM, 5 points, and a -13 +/-, second worst on the team after our starting PF.

But sure, one's definitely the problem and the other faultless... Lmao. At this point it's obvious that people don't like Jakob or his playstyle and put their personal feelings of it before their evaluation of his play (interestingly, Rudy Gobert faces this exact same issue with Jazz fans and media alike, and is also scapegoated for the incompetence of his teammates).

Like him or hate him, the stats never lie (though they can be interpreted in a twisted way; not like that's happening here, but still).

E: also wanna add, re: Keldon, that Taurean Prince ate him up last night. Prince had a great game, scoring 13pts (season average of 6ppg) and just outhustling, outmuscling, and outdoing Keldon at every turn. I actually expected his boxscore to be better than it shows, because he popped off the screen last night. That's exactly the kind of PF the Spurs should be aiming for, and he was a great help to KAT's big night.
New rule, if the guy you’re guarding goes off for 60 and 15 then don’t bring up the plus/minus stat ever.
Also are you saying you want Prince? Bc the dude sucks. He’s been bounced around the league for a good reason. He’s like a worse version of Lonnie (not playstyle) but more like where Lonnie would have one good game and 3 bad ones, that is Prince as well except his ratio is worse.

Keldons shortcomings are bad coaching not his fault. PJ Tucker sucked his last year in Houston but was awesome last year in Mil. Why? Bc they didn’t play him against people 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier every fucking night. We are just lucky that KJ is putting up with this bullshit bc nobody else should or would do this. We need an actual PF. Draymond is more right about KJ than Spurstalk is.

[Dejounte]

New rule, if the guy you’re guarding goes off for 60 and 15 then don’t bring up the plus/minus stat ever.
Also are you saying you want Prince? Bc the dude sucks. He’s been bounced around the league for a good reason. He’s like a worse version of Lonnie (not playstyle) but more like where Lonnie would have one good game and 3 bad ones, that is Prince as well except his ratio is worse.

Keldons shortcomings are bad coaching not his fault. PJ Tucker sucked his last year in Houston but was awesome last year in Mil. Why? Bc they didn’t play him against people 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier every fucking night. We are just lucky that KJ is putting up with this bullshit bc nobody else should or would do this. We need an actual PF. Draymond is more right about KJ than Spurstalk is.

One of the few times I’ll side with KobesAchilles over Sugus :lmao

its crazy to fully rely on stats to tell the story just as it is crazy to fully rely on one’s eye test to tell it

the former doesn’t allow folks to give grace and patience to developing players, missing out on making good takes on players like DJ…and maybe soon Keldon if he makes another leap

the latter doesnt allow folks to appreciate players who clearly make a positive impact yet doesn’t show up on the box score

people don’t like to use a good balance of both eye test and stats, do they? It’s always extreme opinions coming from either end of the spectrum…

in the case of tonight,

Poeltl isn’t the sole reason KAT went off. KAT is the biggest reason KAT went off. Other reasons include poor rotations on defense and too slow to help when Poeltl let KAT drove past him. So I don’t agree at all with these knee jerk posts to kick Poeltl off the team.

Keldon’s box +\- is skewed by the fact that he was on the floor when Minnesota made their biggest run. It’s not to excuse Keldon’s inconsistent defense, but it’s a ridiculous assertion to say that it was because of him that the Spurs lost the game as if he’s a huge liability. The game tells a bigger story than the numbers. Also, what is this nonsense that Prince destroyed him in that matchup? Don’t even get me started…

Daryl Morey would have ten championships right now if it was all about the numbers.

[itzsoweezee]

We got a chance at Sac

Good point. Also need to worry about Portland outtanking us.

[Sugus]

New rule, if the guy you’re guarding goes off for 60 and 15 then don’t bring up the plus/minus stat ever.
Also are you saying you want Prince? Bc the dude sucks. He’s been bounced around the league for a good reason. He’s like a worse version of Lonnie (not playstyle) but more like where Lonnie would have one good game and 3 bad ones, that is Prince as well except his ratio is worse.

Keldons shortcomings are bad coaching not his fault. PJ Tucker sucked his last year in Houston but was awesome last year in Mil. Why? Bc they didn’t play him against people 4 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier every fucking night. We are just lucky that KJ is putting up with this bullshit bc nobody else should or would do this. We need an actual PF. Draymond is more right about KJ than Spurstalk is.

Lol, there's no rules to stats, just context when they apply or don't. I simply provided stats to the context. I didn't say Jakob had a great defensive night or anything, just that the criticism (and moreso, the scapegoating and singling out) are unwarranted. Not quite the same, is it?

I'm not saying I want Prince :lmao the fuck are you reading, man? Can you actually read what I write, or is the back-and-forth just gonna be me correcting you on what you think I said? Jesus, Texas reading comp programs need a boost or something. I said: Taurean Prince ate Keldon up (he did), Prince went above his scoring average (he did), and he played a good game. And yes, I'd like a player of his style of play, though obviously better calibre; he does a little bit of everything, is a strong and athletic presence at the 4. The fact that he sucks is irrelevant because I do not want Taurean Prince himself. Am I going too fast, or are we good with this here?

Lastly, I do agree on Keldon, he's being put in a position to fail. That much is clear. But, when he does fail, well, why can't I blame him? Again, it's worrysome that he had the lowest +/- on the team with him scoring a 30 burger, and it's been an ongoing trend for him this season (his bad or inadequate defense outweighing his offensive production, I mean). Can the problem be solved by simply drafting/playing a competent PF alongside him? I'm not so sure, because right now he doesn't have the bodytype to be a 3, I think he'd get beat by the nimbler players in the league. But it'd certainly be better than what's happening now, and is a more interesting discussion to me anyways (for the record, and you mention it, I agree with Draymond; Keldon should be looking to shed mass in spite of making his driving game slightly tougher if he wants to be a long-term starter, his 3pt shot is already SF level).

Jeez, takes me longer to re-tell my arguments than it did to make them in the first place, smh.

[Sugus]

One of the few times I’ll side with KobesAchilles over Sugus :lmao

Bahaha it's alright, we can perfectly disagree. It's worth pointing out though, that he and I are seemingly arguing different things, and I actually agree with you; "Poeltl isn’t the sole reason KAT went off. KAT is the biggest reason KAT went off."


Poeltl isn’t the sole reason KAT went off. KAT is the biggest reason KAT went off. Other reasons include poor rotations on defense and too slow to help when Poeltl let KAT drove past him. So I don’t agree at all with these knee jerk posts to kick Poeltl off the team.

Exactly, all great reasons, and all strengthen my original point, which is that singling out Rudy, I mean Jakob, for the defensive shortcomings is ridiculous and myopic. We're in the same page after all, my guy! I literally just posted the stats as a compliment to the "eye test", which is tough when people come out of the games having "watched" such different things... Stats help there to dispel these myths, but I'm not only relying on that. I mentioned Keldon (& company, it's a team-wide issue)'s lack of actual help too. You don't contain a star big like KAT with just one player, and defense has always been a 5-man job, no matter the talent of C you have. Even Timmy had great defenders alongside him to help him out.


Keldon’s box +\- is skewed by the fact that he was on the floor when Minnesota made their biggest run. It’s not to excuse Keldon’s inconsistent defense, but it’s a ridiculous assertion to say that it was because of him that the Spurs lost the game as if he’s a huge liability. The game tells a bigger story than the numbers. Also, what is this nonsense that Prince destroyed him in that matchup? Don’t even get me started…

Daryl Morey would have ten championships right now if it was all about the numbers.

Ok, we're getting to the more interesting (IMO) part of the discussion here. You like numbers, D, right? Is there an easy way to check Keldon's +/- numbers throughout the season, as compared to his scoring production? Beyond the obvious that it's not just Keldon losing us games (if I implied that, I didn't mean to, but it was too noticeable to pass up), I have this feeling that the more Keldon scores, the less he can focus on the (already taxing) defensive assignments, and thus the team suffers more than if he were to focus on defense for the most part.

Of course, he should be able to do both, and in a scenario where he can play SF or whatever, I'd love to see the intensity on both ends; but given the situation the Spurs are in, I'd like to see him focus on D more than he does. Too often it feels like he's either too slow to play defense at all, or doesn't care enough to, or is too tired from scoring to do it. Anyways it's just my personal perspective of watching him this season, and I'd like to see if the numbers match my "eye test".

[KobesAchilles]

Lol, there's no rules to stats, just context when they apply or don't. I simply provided stats to the context. I didn't say Jakob had a great defensive night or anything, just that the criticism (and moreso, the scapegoating and singling out) are unwarranted. Not quite the same, is it?

I'm not saying I want Prince :lmao the fuck are you reading, man? Can you actually read what I write, or is the back-and-forth just gonna be me correcting you on what you think I said? Jesus, Texas reading comp programs need a boost or something. I said: Taurean Prince ate Keldon up (he did), Prince went above his scoring average (he did), and he played a good game. And yes, I'd like a player of his style of play, though obviously better calibre; he does a little bit of everything, is a strong and athletic presence at the 4. The fact that he sucks is irrelevant because I do not want Taurean Prince himself. Am I going too fast, or are we good with this here?

Lastly, I do agree on Keldon, he's being put in a position to fail. That much is clear. But, when he does fail, well, why can't I blame him? Again, it's worrysome that he had the lowest +/- on the team with him scoring a 30 burger, and it's been an ongoing trend for him this season (his bad or inadequate defense outweighing his offensive production, I mean). Can the problem be solved by simply drafting/playing a competent PF alongside him? I'm not so sure, because right now he doesn't have the bodytype to be a 3, I think he'd get beat by the nimbler players in the league. But it'd certainly be better than what's happening now, and is a more interesting discussion to me anyways (for the record, and you mention it, I agree with Draymond; Keldon should be looking to shed mass in spite of making his driving game slightly tougher if he wants to be a long-term starter, his 3pt shot is already SF level).

Jeez, takes me longer to re-tell my arguments than it did to make them in the first place, smh.
So you want a PF just like Prince but not Prince himself? Except that you want a better PF than Prince but who is just like him. That’s not confusing at all. Btw, Prince is literally good at nothing. He doesn’t shoot the ball well, he doesn’t defend well, he doesn’t rebound well, he doesn’t pass well, and for a good chunk of his career he was a malcontent. We could sign a PF just like Prince from the GL and you can argue we have a equal to/better PF on our team in KBD. If Minny had an actual PF they would be a top team in the west tbh bc it’s their only real weakness.

When the guy you’re guarding gets 60 on you then you deserve criticism or being “scapegoated.” How many points can a guy score before Jak isn’t scapegoated? 65? 70? I just want to know what the floor is before I can rightfully criticize him for shitty defense and don’t have to hear anybody bring up his fucking plus/minus to defend him.

Here’s something that’s also not being talked about. Jak is getting worse on defense. It’s his calling card. He moves his feet well and rotates well and can switch onto smaller players better than other centers. Except he is losing that card and people are just finding new goal posts. Well he struggles against actual good big men and is good against everybody else. Not like we will face these good big men in the playoffs or anything. Jak isn’t worth a 4 year deal. People keep saying to max extend him (in years not money) and I’m saying hold up a bit. Why are we so willing to commit to him long term? Is Jak going to get better? Probably not. Then why keep him for 4 long years? I would be more willing to sign him for a 2 year 40 million deal than a 4 year deal. We get two more years of Jak not making any difference in winning. His fan boys get to say well if he had a better team and a better situation and 2 other all nba players then Jak would be perfect.

Then reality slaps these Jak yuckers in the face and we get rid of him. Bc if we don’t offer him a short deal then we will still have the same result in 2 years except we will have an expensive back up big once he’s benched in year 3.

[Sugus]

So you want a PF just like Prince but not Prince himself?

Jesus, it's not that hard, is it? Why don't we look at my comment again?


(...)Prince had a great game, scoring 13pts (season average of 6ppg) and just outhustling, outmuscling, and outdoing Keldon at every turn. That's exactly the kind of PF the Spurs should be aiming for, (...)

Where did I talk about his malcontentness or how he shoots or whatever shit? I literally was only talking about his athleticism, his hustle, his jack-of-all-tradedness, which popped out to me off this game (in contrast to Keldon's all-O, no-D performance). Again, I don't give a shit about Prince nor like him, but he certainly fit a prototype that I'd like the Spurs to pursue in the future in his game last night. We've had better discussions than this, KA, c'mon.


When the guy you’re guarding gets 60 on you then you deserve criticism or being “scapegoated.” How many points can a guy score before Jak isn’t scapegoated? 65? 70? I just want to know what the floor is before I can rightfully criticize him for shitty defense and don’t have to hear anybody bring up his fucking plus/minus to defend him.

I brought up his +/- because it's a small but poignant representation of what happened last night: the blame wasn't on Jakob alone, but the entire team. Defense is not played 1 on 1, it's 5 on 5, especially against superstars. Yes, KAT beat Jakob, but he also beat the late double teams that we tried to send him, he beat Keldon's lousy help, and most of all he "beat" himself by having a career night. He was making near-logo 3's... Hard to contain a C doing that. Anyways, the criticism was exactly that, in relation to scapegoating Jakob as the only culprit, when the reality is that the team's defense as a whole is shit, on multiple levels.


Here’s something that’s also not being talked about. Jak is getting worse on defense. It’s his calling card. He moves his feet well and rotates well and can switch onto smaller players better than other centers. Except he is losing that card and people are just finding new goal posts. Well he struggles against actual good big men and is good against everybody else. Not like we will face these good big men in the playoffs or anything. Jak isn’t worth a 4 year deal. People keep saying to max extend him (in years not money) and I’m saying hold up a bit. Why are we so willing to commit to him long term? Is Jak going to get better? Probably not. Then why keep him for 4 long years? I would be more willing to sign him for a 2 year 40 million deal than a 4 year deal. We get two more years of Jak not making any difference in winning. His fan boys get to say well if he had a better team and a better situation and 2 other all nba players then Jak would be perfect.

Then reality slaps these Jak yuckers in the face and we get rid of him. Bc if we don’t offer him a short deal then we will still have the same result in 2 years except we will have an expensive back up big once he’s benched in year 3.

Jak's had better and worse stretches over the season, but idk what you're looking at to say he's definitively getting worse (I understand you mean in a progressive way?). I'd love some RAPTOR or whatever stats to see if it's backed up; the team's current stealth-tanking condition doesn't really lend itself to an accurate analysis one way or the other, IMO.

The team is far, far from having to worry about "good big men in the playoffs" and a key piece of that is having an actual PF, who could perfectly bang alongside Jakob and help out on these Cs. Again, defense isn't 1-on-1, it's 5-on-5, and especially in the modern, switching-happy, hyper-flowing NBA, it doesn't matter if you have 2 or 3 great defenders at any position if the other 2 can be exploited (again, look at the Jazz, and see you're making the exact same myopic criticisms of Jakob that they make of Rudy Gobert; almost like Jak's like 70% of Gobert or something... :lol).

Stating that Jak "probably won't get better" in the 4 years that will comprise his prime is stupid, especially considering he got better this season. Stupid opinion trying to pass off as fact.

Jak is definitely worth a 4 year deal, what are you smoking? Will he be out of the league in 4 years? Lol. The question is how much he's worth. And even then, it's retarded to act like the Spurs have to keep him even if he's signed to whatever deal; look at how that worked out with White, who had an even bigger contract than Jakob can sign (4/64 vs 4/50 or something like that, if I'm not mistaken). Ridiculous argument on your behalf tbh.

Lastly, damn, you really don't get the fact that Jakob is a role player. Yes, any role player gets better with 2 other All-NBA players. What's the weird hung up on that? Is it because of the top-10 center thing? :lol. You can be top-10 at any position and not be an All-Star nor All-NBA talent (by definition, actually, you gotta be, since there's only 2 AS spots per position). Jesus. It's like you don't wanna argue against the actual arguments, and strawmanning them into different points is the only way you go. If the Spurs get an actual PF (I'm not even talking AS level!) Jakob will look much different, same will happen if we let go of McBuckets, and so on with roster moves that have to be made for the team to get better.

I'll give you credit, though, you made me laugh with "Jak Yuckers". It even rhymes, I love it :lol.

[Sugus]

Before you get back to me, KobesAchilles, regarding Jakob and his defense, why don't you go and look at some recent highlights of Embiid or Jokic? Actual superstar C's that the Spurs would face sooner or later in the POs.

Now watch how the other teams defend them, the amount of gravity they command. Are they guarded entirely 1-on-1? Or do these matchups call for constant, incessant double teams, triple teams even? I can look you up highlights of Embiid getting literally triple teamed from this very season, and Jokic's gotten four-teamed a number of times if you've watched closely. Now, why is that, if defense is only and exclusively responsibility of the opposing player of the same position?! Or could there be more to it than 1-on-1 defense...??

Literally any star player is guarded in this way, because they can beat any random defender 1-on-1. It's their thing. So they command double teams and early help, which leaves their teammates open, which they should be able to hit for open buckets... And the game goes on and on. It's also something the Spurs are terrible at defending, on multiple levels, from not recovering early enough to contest these passes, to not getting the rotations right and leaving guys open consistently, to not having the length/height/physicality to contest these stars. And now, you consider how much worse the Spurs' defense gets whenever Jakob sits out or misses a game...

So yeah, you can hate on him, I don't care (beyond randomly answering in this forum, that is; I don't take it personally and neither should you). There's a lot to criticize about Jak, starting with whatever the hell prevents him from dunking the ball lol. But you've chosen very wacky/misguided points to single him out on, and it's just not how defense works. Jak is great at it; the team is not. It's a lazy take, tbh, and very dismissive of the very real problems that the Spurs face moving forward if they want to build a defensive identity like they had in the old days.

[KobesAchilles]

Before you get back to me, KobesAchilles (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=50221), regarding Jakob and his defense, why don't you go and look at some recent highlights of Embiid or Jokic? Actual superstar C's that the Spurs would face sooner or later in the POs.

Now watch how the other teams defend them, the amount of gravity they command. Are they guarded entirely 1-on-1? Or do these matchups call for constant, incessant double teams, triple teams even? I can look you up highlights of Embiid getting literally triple teamed from this very season, and Jokic's gotten four-teamed a number of times if you've watched closely. Now, why is that, if defense is only and exclusively responsibility of the opposing player of the same position?! Or could there be more to it than 1-on-1 defense...??

Literally any star player is guarded in this way, because they can beat any random defender 1-on-1. It's their thing. So they command double teams and early help, which leaves their teammates open, which they should be able to hit for open buckets... And the game goes on and on. It's also something the Spurs are terrible at defending, on multiple levels, from not recovering early enough to contest these passes, to not getting the rotations right and leaving guys open consistently, to not having the length/height/physicality to contest these stars. And now, you consider how much worse the Spurs' defense gets whenever Jakob sits out or misses a game...

So yeah, you can hate on him, I don't care (beyond randomly answering in this forum, that is; I don't take it personally and neither should you). There's a lot to criticize about Jak, starting with whatever the hell prevents him from dunking the ball lol. But you've chosen very wacky/misguided points to single him out on, and it's just not how defense works. Jak is great at it; the team is not. It's a lazy take, tbh, and very dismissive of the very real problems that the Spurs face moving forward if they want to build a defensive identity like they had in the old days.
Here’s my thing. I want the Spurs to be in the playoffs in 4 years. That’s the timeframe I have for them to be back. So I simply ask myself how do we get there?

About KJ: yes he is a shitty defender. But from an organizational standpoint we are being extremely stupid. Playing him out of position does zero for us in the long run. It tells us nothing about him other than what any idiot (and I’m the idiot) could’ve told PATFO. 6’4 guys are shitty PFs (chuck aside). So how does he do in the long run against SFs? Well we have no fucking clue. We know he is shitty against elite SF like Lebron/KD/Kawhi. But what about everyone else? Well we don’t know. And now we have to waste another fucking year to find out.

In regards to Poeltl, I believe this is his peak. And with him we aren’t winning any games. And without him we aren’t winning any games. He’s basically a net zero. But let’s say he adds 5 games to our win/loss record, do I really want that? Nope I don’t. If we aren’t even close to making the playoffs like you said, what is the point in keeping him. We need to bottom out for a few years and then we can build. I think Poeltl makes zero difference in us making the playoffs and makes so much more sense to just trade.

I like Wright (his name has been upgraded) and his mindset. We have an all star in Murray. A dead eye shooter in KJ. And a possibility in Primo. That’s about it. So we need to sell Poeltl now. Bc the second way of making the playoffs is to trade for a disgruntled star. I think that player is Jaylen Brown. I think once the Celtics get bounced in the 1st round this year and lose next year they are going to ship him out. I would like to have the assets for him. So if we do sign Poeltl, it needs to be a deal where he is very tradeable for a FRP.

In the summer of 2023 it’s gonna be KJ, 2 FRPs, and filler for Jaylen Brown. We get 2 years of tanking where hopefully we pick the right players in the draft. Nobody under 6’6. And go from there.

[Dejounte]

If Keldon is 6’4”, then Murray is 6’2” :lmao :lmao