Murray is my favorite player, BUT...

[duncan2k5]

You simply can't win with ur point guard being the leading scorer, unless ur PG is like 6'9 or something...

With that said, I think next season if we form an offense around Keldon playing his true position (SF) and Vassel playing SG, Not only will we have 2 dynamic wing scorers, but we will have great wing defense... Both can play off-ball and both can create their own offense... Keldon is big enough to bully opposing SF...

We also need an actual big at PF that can spread the floor... No more tiny players playing out of position...so yes,Murray as a 3rd option would be amazing...with The coming off the bench with his speed and penetration to lead the bench mob

[John B]

You simply can't win with ur point guard being the leading scorer, unless ur PG is like 6'9 or something...

With that said, I think next season if we form an offense around Keldon playing his true position (SF) and Vassel playing SG, Not only will we have 2 dynamic wing scorers, but we will have great wing defense... Both can play off-ball and both can create their own offense... Keldon is big enough to bully opposing SF...

We also need an actual big at PF that can spread the floor... No more tiny players playing out of position...so yes,Murray as a 3rd option would be amazing...with The coming off the bench with his speed and penetration to lead the bench mob

I think this is the general consensus in ST. Keldon is a defensive liability at 4 which seems to necessitate him playing at SF, plus his high 3pt % and growing ability to play facing the basket. One hopes he continues improving his lateral speed to cover quicker SF.

[stnick2261]

I think most agree here with any disagreements being in the details. We really need a fringe All-Star PF, badly.

Murray / Jones
Vassell / Primo
Johnson / J-Rich
(Draft or FA) / Collins
Poeltl / (Draft or FA)

[RC_Drunkford]

You simply can't win with ur point guard being the leading scorer, unless ur PG is like 6'9 or something...

You ever heard of Steph Curry or Tony Parker?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

You ever heard of Steph Curry or Tony Parker?

Ja Morant. Allen Iverson. Donovan Mitchell. Probably a hundred more examples out there.

Sometimes I'm confused as to whether duncan2k5 is a troll or if his takes are real.

[JPB]

Ja Morant. Allen Iverson. Donovan Mitchell. Probably a hundred more examples out there.

Sometimes I'm confused as to whether duncan2k5 is a troll or if his takes are real.

I stopped reading after that first sentence of his, tbh.

[wildbill2u]

Keldon is a problem because he is such a tweener in size and speed --neither fish nor fowl-- for any frontline position but his shooting has improved so much that he almost has to start instead of leading a bench second unit. That says something about our other shooters (?), doesn't it?

I notice that no one mentions Lonnie in the above posts. I wonder sometimes if he wouldn't be a better SF than guard. He is powerfully built, great leaper, and has decent speed. He could be a defensive tiger and rebounder if he was interested and motivated to concentrate more on his defense. It ought to be embarrassing to him to see tre Jones get more rebounds than him.

Too many guys with higher ceilings than where they are in their careers right now. They play with no consistency and don't seem to have the necessary motivation from game to game to utilize what they have.

[DAF86]

Ja Morant. Allen Iverson. Donovan Mitchell. Probably a hundred more examples out there.

Sometimes I'm confused as to whether duncan2k5 is a troll or if his takes are real.

1) What have those guys won?

2) Since when is Mitchell a PG?

[spurs1990]

It's a good point if the argument is no title team has been lead by a PG leading scorer in the current 2000s era. Curry is a once-in-lifetime talent with his one real ring, and Parker I don't think had over 20ppg, not to mention had those other two guys in whichever year he lead the team in scoring.

If they get to the level of title contender it will be safe to say they'll have another surefire scorer who'll naturally take the ppg lead anyway.

Though Morant may be the first guy to break the argument.

[Leetonidas]

Steph Curry won a ring as his teams leading scorer.

Tony Parker won a ring as his team's leading scorer.

Might wanna rethink that one OP. While I generally agree with what you're saying you kinda face planted in the very first sentence lol

[itzsoweezee]

Draymond is just as much, if not more, the warriors point guard as Curry, no matter the labels. I think I generally agree that it’s better for a team’s outcome if their main scorer plays off the ball a lot. Think of the Rockets with Harden and Thunder with Westbrook. Those types of offenses tend to suffer in the playoffs.

I don’t think the spurs are going to be in the same boat. The Spurs’ scoring is pretty evenly distributed and trending in the right direction.

[paperboy77]

Ja Morant. Allen Iverson. Donovan Mitchell. Probably a hundred more examples out there.

Sometimes I'm confused as to whether duncan2k5 is a troll or if his takes are real.

None of those guys won titles.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

None of those guys won titles.

duncan2K5 said win, he didn't say championships.

RC_Drunkford already said Curry and Parker as two champion examples.



Positionless basketball really nullifies any sort of argument about the height of your point guard and whether he leads the team in scoring.

[BackHome]

For the most part teams are winning champions because of guard/sg/sf/c/pf in the past not pg

[paperboy77]

duncan2K5 said win, he didn't say championships.

RC_Drunkford already said Curry and Parker as two champion examples.



Positionless basketball really nullifies any sort of argument about the height of your point guard and whether he leads the team in scoring.

I don't know man. I just don't like the idea of a PG being the top scorer. They should be a focused on assisting and setting up offenses. Curry not really a PG, he's more like Forbes with 1000000% better play-making and shooting. Parker wouldn't have done shit without TD and Manu, sorry.

[ducks]

What has pop done since Duncan Robinson Parker were not spurs
Any playoff wins ????????!
Waiting

[daslicer]

Steph Curry won a ring as his teams leading scorer.

Tony Parker won a ring as his team's leading scorer.

Might wanna rethink that one OP. While I generally agree with what you're saying you kinda face planted in the very first sentence lol

That's a terrible argument granted it is factual but it overlooks that Tony Parker was averging only 16.7 a game on a team where the sum of the parts between him Duncan, Kawhi, Manu were pretty even talent wise. He wasn't head and shoulders the best player on that team. I would say Tim was the best player but it was only by small margin compared to previous title runs.

You usually don't win titles when your best player is a typical sized PG.

[rankingtear]

That's a terrible argument granted it is factual but it overlooks that Tony Parker was averging only 16.7 a game on a team where the sum of the parts between him Duncan, Kawhi, Manu were pretty even talent wise. He wasn't head and shoulders the best player on that team. I would say Tim was the best player but it was only by small margin compared to previous title runs.

You usually don't win titles when your best player is a typical sized PG.

Why though?

[KingKev]

I stopped reading after that first sentence of his, tbh.

I legit did too.

[JPB]

Well, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Allen Iverson (didn't win it all but who litterally brought his team to the Finals by himself), Steph Curry... Hell, you could argue Jordan and Lebron were Bulls and Cavs real PGs.

[Texas_Ranger]

Murray needs 2 better players than him if a team with him want to win anything. As of right now he's a very poor version of an OKC Westbrick.

[Ice009]

Murray need 2 better players than him if a team with him want to win anything. As of right now he's a very poor version of an OKC Westbrick.

I wouldn't say Murray is a poor version of OKC Westbrook. I'd say he's a little bit of a lesser version with the possibility of getting even better, but also, Murray does some things better. I think he's developing into a better shooter than Westbrook, and might end up being a much better shooter when it's all said and done. He also has better shot selection, and his decision making isn't as bad as Westbrook who at times was wild and out of control.

[exstatic]

Well, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Allen Iverson (didn't win it all but who litterally brought his team to the Finals by himself), Steph Curry... Hell, you could argue Jordan and Lebron were Bulls and Cavs real PGs.

Jordan absolutely was. Did people really think Paxson or Kerr were?

[Texas_Ranger]

I wouldn't say Murray is a poor version of OKC Westbrook. I'd say he's a little bit of a lesser version with the possibility of getting even better, but also, Murray does some things better. I think he's developing into a better shooter than Westbrook, and might end up being a much better shooter when it's all said and done. He also has better shot selection, and his decision making isn't as bad as Westbrook who at times was wild and out of control.

Murray is for sure a better defender and his iq is also higher than Westbrook's who is probably one of the dumbest players ever to play basketball. But he did get that shitty OKC team in the playoffs, so i gotta give him that.

[Big Empty]

I somewhat agree. Steph was pretty much on a Rookie contract not to mention Klay Thompson & Draymond playing huge roles. There are great point guards today but most havnt won a championship. Wait until they take up most of the cap space when they’re rookie contracts are up. Then teams have to sign average centers & fowards that cant do much. A 6’6/6’7 guard can guard 4 positions in todays league. A PG cant. Love DJs progress he’s now an allstar, overpaying a pg is like overpaying a running back in the NFL. With us we have flexibility though since no major FAs want to come here. We may have to fork up the 200 million contract for DJ to keep us atleast 1/2nd round playoff contenders, unless we find that allstar foward.

[JPB]

Jordan absolutely was. Did people really think Paxson or Kerr were?

B.J Armstrong tho.

[Ice009]

Murray is for sure a better defender and his iq is also higher than Westbrook's who is probably one of the dumbest players ever to play basketball. But he did get that shitty OKC team in the playoffs, so i gotta give him that.

Darn, I've must have gotten used to the offensive era as I can't believe I forgot to mention defense (I used to always look at the defensive side of the ball and place a major emphasis on it, sometimes more than offense. This offensive era has really skewed things for me). Dejounte is a very good defender, but since I love defense, I will say, he can still definitely get better on that end of the court. Steals and poking the ball away are great and all, but lockdown man to man defense is a whole other thing, and he can improve in that area. Having said that, he's still way ahead of Westbrook as far as defense goes.

You are right, Russell Westbrook was a beast. I really liked his game years ago, but his decision making a lot of the time was total garbage. The series against the Warriors before KD left, Russell was chucking up bricks, KD was shooting well for stretches of games and Russ wouldn't get him the ball. I loved his aggressiveness as it reminded me of a prime Manu and TP attacking (that's the style of ball I like for my guards - take it to the rim HARD and attack/penetrate), but unfortunately he didn't have the smarts to go with it. He had the talent and athleticism to be even better than he was in his prime. The going after triple doubles I think ruined his game. Instead, he could have spent that time trying to sure up the deficits in his game like shooting, decision making and also to a lesser degree passing. He could have spent time on working on his defense too.

[Leetonidas]

That's a terrible argument granted it is factual but it overlooks that Tony Parker was averging only 16.7 a game on a team where the sum of the parts between him Duncan, Kawhi, Manu were pretty even talent wise. He wasn't head and shoulders the best player on that team. I would say Tim was the best player but it was only by small margin compared to previous title runs.

You usually don't win titles when your best player is a typical sized PG.

Irrelevant. OP said "you simply can't win" with a PG as the leading scorer. He was wrong. If he said "usually" that's one thing but he didn't. It's not about TP being better because he obviously wasn't but he was in fact the leading scorer so therefore OP is incorrect.

[RC_Drunkford]

if you want to win a title your big 3 has to consist out of a PG, a wing (SG/SF) and a big (C/PF). That's basically how most title teams are built. I could care less who the top scorer is

[ZeusWillJudge]

You simply can't win with ur point guard being the leading scorer, unless ur PG is like 6'9 or something...

With that said, I think next season if we form an offense around Keldon playing his true position (SF) and Vassel playing SG, Not only will we have 2 dynamic wing scorers, but we will have great wing defense... Both can play off-ball and both can create their own offense... Keldon is big enough to bully opposing SF...

We also need an actual big at PF that can spread the floor... No more tiny players playing out of position...so yes,Murray as a 3rd option would be amazing...with The coming off the bench with his speed and penetration to lead the bench mob


So suppose the Spurs could manage to pry Jalen Brunson away from Dallas in free agency. Never mind whether you think it could happen for now. I'm not going to offer a couple of ways it might happen, because all the screaming would ruin your thread. But Dallas has Doncic and Dinwiddie to distribute.

Would Brunson at the point, Murray at the 2, and Keldon at the 3 make sense to you?

Finding a PF who can really shoot from outside AND be a bully in the middle is probably the holy grail, so getting anyone to let go of one of those is pretty thin. Is there anyone in the draft outside of the Top 4 who you think has that potential?

[Big Empty]

if you want to win a title your big 3 has to consist out of a PG, a wing (SG/SF) and a big (C/PF). That's basically how most title teams are built. I could care less who the top scorer is
Pretty much.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Irrelevant. OP said "you simply can't win" with a PG as the leading scorer. He was wrong. If he said "usually" that's one thing but he didn't. It's not about TP being better because he obviously wasn't but he was in fact the leading scorer so therefore OP is incorrect.


Awww... let's not parse the hyperbole. How about, "This team can't win with Murray at the point AND being the leading scorer?" Triple doubles are sexy, but guys who get a lot of them have a history of not winning in the playoffs.

This season Murray's % of field goals assisted dropped to under 20%. I kind of wonder if Murray's AST load was about half what it was this season if he could be more of a beast scoring and on D, and help the team more overall.

[R. DeMurre]

I think the OP overstated the opinion a bit, but I do agree that being point guard-centric makes winning a championship a little harder than having your best player be 6'6"+, regardless of position. World class PGs of the modern era like Stockton, Nash, & Chris Paul are all ringless, while guys like Giannis, Dirk, Garnett, Kobe, LeBron, Kawhi, KD (and of course Timmy) have all managed titles. Curry's an exception of course, but he's also the greatest shooter in the history of the NBA. Parker was a great player, but those teams were still led by the genius of Timmy, and Manu almost always had much better impact stats than Parker. Kyle Lowry was very very good but always came up short in the playoffs until Kawhi showed up and became the #1 option.

[daslicer]

Well, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Allen Iverson (didn't win it all but who litterally brought his team to the Finals by himself), Steph Curry... Hell, you could argue Jordan and Lebron were Bulls and Cavs real PGs.

AI didn't bring the Sixers to the finals by himself. It was a 2 man show with him and Dikembe. AI provided the offense and Dikembe was the superstar on the defensive end. AI never lead a team to deep playoff run after '01 so it was short lived.

Lebron and Jordan were both above 6'3 which tends to be the case for teams that win titles their best player on average tends to be 6'6 or taller. Curry and Isiah were the exceptions to this rule.

[R. DeMurre]

Isiah Thomas won over 30 years ago, and Iverson never won. Using those guys as examples works better to prove the PG theory than it does to refute it.

Here's another way to look at it-- since 2000, these point guards have been MVPs: Iverson (some argue he's a SG), Steve Nash, Derrick Rose, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, James Harden. Only one of those guys has won a championship, and he's the best shooter in NBA history.

Here are the other MVPs since 2000: Shaq, Timmy, Garnett, Nowitzki, Kobe, LeBron, Durant, Giannis, Jokic. Every single guy here except Jokic has a championship, and five of them have multiple titles.

Since 2000, there have been 2 finals MVPs who were PGs: Billups and Parker. The other 20 were non-PGs, and all were 6'6" or over except for D Wade.

[Dejounte]

There’s really no concern over Murray being the center of the offense when he’s shown a willingness to share the ball with others. He isn’t a “hold the ball until there’s 5 seconds left”type player. Murray is incredibly unselfish and has taken responsibility of being the go to guy in the clutch this season out of necessity. You want him to get those reps because once the day does come, he will be able to help carry the load when the other guy is being doubled or doesn’t have it that night.

[JPB]

Isiah Thomas won over 30 years ago, and Iverson never won. Using those guys as examples works better to prove the PG theory than it does to refute it.

Here's another way to look at it-- since 2000, these point guards have been MVPs: Iverson (some argue he's a SG), Steve Nash, Derrick Rose, Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, James Harden. Only one of those guys has won a championship, and he's the best shooter in NBA history.

Here are the other MVPs since 2000: Shaq, Timmy, Garnett, Nowitzki, Kobe, LeBron, Durant, Giannis, Jokic. Every single guy here except Jokic has a championship, and five of them have multiple titles.

Since 2000, there have been 2 finals MVPs who were PGs: Billups and Parker. The other 20 were non-PGs, and all were 6'6" or over except for D Wade.

I give you the size argument but Lebron, Kobe, Giannis and hell Jokic have been the real PGs in all their title teams (or not title). "PG" is just a position name, when you're the guy who has the ball in hand most of the time and make the plays, you're the PG, Point Forward or point Center who cares...

Who was the real Lakers point? Derek Fisher, Smush Fuckn' Parker or Kobe Bryant? We should actually talk about "playmaker" rather than "PG".

[rankingtear]

It is size rather than role. Small guards gets hunted defensively. DJ is a big guard though and very competitive defender.

[Biggems]

It is very rare to have your PG be your leading scorer. Their job is to get others the ball in the best possible position to score. very few PGs have ever been the leading scorer of their team, much less a championship team.

Isiah Thomas led the Pistons in scoring during their first championship. Dantley was leading the team in scoring by 0.2 ppg, but he was traded halfway through the season. Then, the next season, Zeke did it again. He was only averaged just over 18 in both seasons. It was a different era, but yes it was done in back to back years.

[Biggems]

Well, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Allen Iverson (didn't win it all but who litterally brought his team to the Finals by himself), Steph Curry... Hell, you could argue Jordan and Lebron were Bulls and Cavs real PGs.

was Magic ever the leading scorer on his team? I know they won in 88, but Byron Scott was the leading scorer.

[R. DeMurre]

I give you the size argument but Lebron, Kobe, Giannis and hell Jokic have been the real PGs in all their title teams (or not title). "PG" is just a position name, when you're the guy who has the ball in hand most of the time and make the plays, you're the PG, Point Forward or point Center who cares...

Who was the real Lakers point? Derek Fisher, Smush Fuckn' Parker or Kobe Bryant? We should actually talk about "playmaker" rather than "PG".

Right, but those great players capable of running the offense at critical times still benefitted from having a good PG who wasn't the #1 option. Denver was better with Jamal Murray healthy, and Kobe won titles with Fisher but didn't with Smush. But this kinda ties into the 6'6" or taller theory, doesn't it? Teams can be great when LeBron or Giannis or Magic start taking over the primary ballhandling responsibilities, but they also benefit from times when those guys play PF or small ball center. A 6'2" PG doesn't have that ability.

[ZeusWillJudge]

LOL. This is why you can't even have this discussion.

Who was the very first Finals MVP? A: Jerry West. A PG who led the team in PPG.

Magic Johnson won his first Finals MVP in 1980. Pretty much everyone (especially here) insists that Magic was the Lakers PG. But that team had a 6'2" PG named Norm Nixon. Don't try to say he was a sub - Nixon averaged 39.3 MPG that season, compared to 36.3 for Magic.

"Well... but Magic was the distributor for the team. He facilitated all the offense." Mmmm, not exactly. Nixon averaged 7.8.AST per game that season, compared to 7.3 AST for Magic. Better still, Nixon's AST% was 25.3, compared to 25.2 for Magic. Almost all of the time Magic was on the floor, Nixon was also on the floor - and Nixon actually dished a slightly higher percentage of the team's AST's. Very, very slightly - but you get the point. Not only that, but Nixon's TO% was 17.9, while Magic's was 20.9. Magic's TRB% was 11.6 compared to 3.9 for Nixon. Which one of those sounds most like a point guard?

The fact is, that 1980 Laker team had a PG, and it wasn't Magic Johnson - no matter what "they" say. But Nixon was the fourth leading scorer on that team. Magic was the third leading scorer. A couple of seasons later, all those stats flipped, and Magic dished a few more AST's than Nixon. But Nixon was still the team's PG.

For the record, a couple of years earlier the Celtics won the Championship. The Finals MVP was JoJo White - a point guard, and he scored the most points in the whole playoffs that year. During the regular season he was a virtual tie with Dave Cowans for most points.

None of that changes the OP's point that winning it all with the PG being the team's leading scorer is very unlikely (even if it isn't "impossible"). Murray has become a very good player, but he's no Magic Johnson.

[duncan2k5]

Ja Morant. Allen Iverson. Donovan Mitchell. Probably a hundred more examples out there.

Sometimes I'm confused as to whether duncan2k5 is a troll or if his takes are real.

AI and Mitchell are SGs... What did Morant ever win?

[duncan2k5]

You ever heard of Steph Curry or Tony Parker?

Well ur right... But when I said that I was more talking about point guards that are ball dominant/need the ball in their hands... Parker was NOT ball dominant, and Steph can play off ball... But even with Steph, he has never won finals MVP, and his play always dropped in the finals

[duncan2k5]

1) What have those guys won?

2) Since when is Mitchell a PG?

He is an idiot... Ignore him

[duncan2k5]

duncan2K5 said win, he didn't say championships.

RC_Drunkford already said Curry and Parker as two champion examples.



Positionless basketball really nullifies any sort of argument about the height of your point guard and whether he leads the team in scoring.

What the fuck else would I mean when I say win?

[duncan2k5]

Well, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Allen Iverson (didn't win it all but who litterally brought his team to the Finals by himself), Steph Curry... Hell, you could argue Jordan and Lebron were Bulls and Cavs real PGs.

I said or unless ur PG is 6'9... Magic and Bron are 6'9... AI wasn't a PG and he didn't win... MJ isn't a PG obviously

[duncan2k5]

Irrelevant. OP said "you simply can't win" with a PG as the leading scorer. He was wrong. If he said "usually" that's one thing but he didn't. It's not about TP being better because he obviously wasn't but he was in fact the leading scorer so therefore OP is incorrect.

Ok... And? What's ur conclusion? That we will win a ring with Murray as our best player?

[duncan2k5]

So suppose the Spurs could manage to pry Jalen Brunson away from Dallas in free agency. Never mind whether you think it could happen for now. I'm not going to offer a couple of ways it might happen, because all the screaming would ruin your thread. But Dallas has Doncic and Dinwiddie to distribute.

Would Brunson at the point, Murray at the 2, and Keldon at the 3 make sense to you?

Finding a PF who can really shoot from outside AND be a bully in the middle is probably the holy grail, so getting anyone to let go of one of those is pretty thin. Is there anyone in the draft outside of the Top 4 who you think has that potential?

I don't think Murray would be a good 2 guard... He would lose his size advantage, and he is too thin and can't shoot well enough to consistently play off ball... And I don't think Brunson is good enough to be the starting Pg on a championship team unless u have a generational talent as ur best player

[JPB]

I said or unless ur PG is 6'9... Magic and Bron are 6'9... AI wasn't a PG and he didn't win... MJ isn't a PG obviously

He was, obvioulsy. Watch all his finals and tell me who has the balls in hand and make the plays most of the time (with Pippen)... Then watch Steve Kerr, John Paxson or B.J Armstrong and tell me what they do besides getting the ball up the court then giving it to MJ or Pippen before standing in the corner for the occasional three?

Then tell me who averaged the more assists between Jordan and all these guys who were just PG by names. It's not even close.

[Leetonidas]

Ok... And? What's ur conclusion? That we will win a ring with Murray as our best player?

My point is as usual you are wrong. You're the one who said you simply can't win with a PG being your leading scorer which has been proven incorrect. If you're gonna make the assertion don't get butthurt when it's proven wrong. If you wanna simply state that we cannot win a title with Murray as our best player, that's different. But leading scorer and best player are not the same thing either. What point are you even making:lol

[Leetonidas]

I'd also argue that given Murray's ascendancy this season and the fact that he likely is not at his peak yet, you could win a title with him as the best player provided you had an elite team and role players around him

[Joseph Kony]

OP makes no sense anyway because he seems to think letting DJ take a backseat to Keldon/Vassell is going to somehow lead to more team success :lol

regardless of who is the leading scorer, no team is winning a ring with Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell as the #1 and #2 options :lmao :lmao

[ZeusWillJudge]

I don't think Murray would be a good 2 guard... He would lose his size advantage, and he is too thin and can't shoot well enough to consistently play off ball... And I don't think Brunson is good enough to be the starting Pg on a championship team unless u have a generational talent as ur best player


I think Brunson is a little better than you give him credit for, but I also think the Mavs are going to balk at paying him what his agents want and I don't think I want the Spurs to pay him that much either. Mostly I was just gauging the thoughts on Murray moving to the 2 position. Brunson is a pretty good defender and him, Murray, and Keldon would be a pretty tough defensive 1-3, but I get your point.

So you think the Spurs could win with Vassell at the 2? I don't think he's the 2 on a contender team any more than you think Brunson is the point on a contender. You think he's going to get there?

I don't hate Poeltl at C as much as a lot of people. It takes time to grow into that position. Leaving DJ, Vassell, and Keldon at 1-2-3 would let the Spurs tolerate Jak and focus on a 4, plus support players. (I assume you thought it through that far?) Maybe a two-season horizon for people to start talking about the Spurs seriously again?

Please don't disappoint me and start talking about the Spurs getting stars at every position. I'm more curious how you see the Spurs (realistically) building around DJ at the point and Keldon at the 3.

[Chomag]

I more see Vassell as the expendable one out of the bunch. He's a pretty decent player yes but unless he significantly improves next season he really doesn't provide much more then allot of other players around the league do.

I do like Vassell but this team needs more "impact full " players.

[RC_Drunkford]

I more see Vassell as the expendable one out of the bunch. He's a pretty decent player yes but unless he significantly improves next season he really doesn't provide much more then allot of other players around the league do.

I do like Vassell but this team needs more "impact full " players.

he's in his 2nd year and will make a lot more strides. He's a keeper

[Jsmythe]

I think what's different right now as opposed to the past is that there is no superteam like the 2015-2019 Warriors. The past 15 or so NBA champions all had an MVP level player on their team (the exceptions being 2014 Spurs and 2019 Raptors both of which had Kawhi). But this year, none of the frontrunners have that kind of MVP talent except for the Bucks. Phoenix is the favorite right now and it doesn't seem like it would take that great of a team to beat them. The champion could easily be the Celtics or the Heat and nobody would be surprised.

So I think it would be possible for a Murray led team to win a championship given enough supporting talent. If a Booker (or old Paul) led team, a Tatum led team, or a Butler led team could win the championship this year, I don't see why a Murray led team couldn't also win in the future especially if he can improve to be as good as current Booker/Tatum/Butler. I don't know if he will get to that level, but it's at least a possibility. But it's also likely that some superteam will form and dominate the league (the Nets, Lakers, and Clippers already tried to but failed due to injuries).

[exstatic]

I more see Vassell as the expendable one out of the bunch. He's a pretty decent player yes but unless he significantly improves next season he really doesn't provide much more then allot of other players around the league do.

I do like Vassell but this team needs more "impact full " players.

He’s the only player besides DJ who shoots well on the move. He’s a 3 level scorer, and a plus defender. Isn’t it possible that your standards are just a tad high? He’s the second or third best player on the team.

[duncan2k5]

He was, obvioulsy. Watch all his finals and tell me who has the balls in hand and make the plays most of the time (with Pippen)... Then watch Steve Kerr, John Paxson or B.J Armstrong and tell me what they do besides getting the ball up the court then giving it to MJ or Pippen before standing in the corner for the occasional three?

Then tell me who averaged the more assists between Jordan and all these guys who were just PG by names. It's not even close.

U are the only person in NBA history that considers MJ a point guard... Congratulations

[duncan2k5]

I think Brunson is a little better than you give him credit for, but I also think the Mavs are going to balk at paying him what his agents want and I don't think I want the Spurs to pay him that much either. Mostly I was just gauging the thoughts on Murray moving to the 2 position. Brunson is a pretty good defender and him, Murray, and Keldon would be a pretty tough defensive 1-3, but I get your point.

So you think the Spurs could win with Vassell at the 2? I don't think he's the 2 on a contender team any more than you think Brunson is the point on a contender. You think he's going to get there?

I don't hate Poeltl at C as much as a lot of people. It takes time to grow into that position. Leaving DJ, Vassell, and Keldon at 1-2-3 would let the Spurs tolerate Jak and focus on a 4, plus support players. (I assume you thought it through that far?) Maybe a two-season horizon for people to start talking about the Spurs seriously again?

Please don't disappoint me and start talking about the Spurs getting stars at every position. I'm more curious how you see the Spurs (realistically) building around DJ at the point and Keldon at the 3.

No, we won't win a championship with this roster... But I do honestly think we will be better than we are now because it allows Vassel and Keldon to handle the ball more, grow their games and become more consistent as a result...

Usually when players are primarily catch and shoot in an offense where one guy dominates the ball, they are wildly inconsistent... We have seen that on every LeBron, Luka, Harden, Westrbook team... Obviously Murray isn't as ball dominant as those guys, but he IS a lesser version of that... It makes his numbers look great, but at the cost of slower development of teammates... It's why one game Devin can score 20, then the next go 1/5... We all can see his potential to be a solid 2 way player/borderline all star... Same with Keldon... It sounds crazy, but the potential is there

Lastly it will allow Murray to get used to a role where he is the 2nd or 3rd option so that when do do get better players, the transition is seamless... So not only do I think we would be better immediately, it would be a good transition for if we do get a star player

[duncan2k5]

I think what's different right now as opposed to the past is that there is no superteam like the 2015-2019 Warriors. The past 15 or so NBA champions all had an MVP level player on their team (the exceptions being 2014 Spurs and 2019 Raptors both of which had Kawhi). But this year, none of the frontrunners have that kind of MVP talent except for the Bucks. Phoenix is the favorite right now and it doesn't seem like it would take that great of a team to beat them. The champion could easily be the Celtics or the Heat and nobody would be surprised.

So I think it would be possible for a Murray led team to win a championship given enough supporting talent. If a Booker (or old Paul) led team, a Tatum led team, or a Butler led team could win the championship this year, I don't see why a Murray led team couldn't also win in the future especially if he can improve to be as good as current Booker/Tatum/Butler. I don't know if he will get to that level, but it's at least a possibility. But it's also likely that some superteam will form and dominate the league (the Nets, Lakers, and Clippers already tried to but failed due to injuries).

Booker, Tatum, and Butler are all wing players that play off ball and have some size to them... None are point guards...

[duncan2k5]

I think what's different right now as opposed to the past is that there is no superteam like the 2015-2019 Warriors. The past 15 or so NBA champions all had an MVP level player on their team (the exceptions being 2014 Spurs and 2019 Raptors both of which had Kawhi). But this year, none of the frontrunners have that kind of MVP talent except for the Bucks. Phoenix is the favorite right now and it doesn't seem like it would take that great of a team to beat them. The champion could easily be the Celtics or the Heat and nobody would be surprised.

So I think it would be possible for a Murray led team to win a championship given enough supporting talent. If a Booker (or old Paul) led team, a Tatum led team, or a Butler led team could win the championship this year, I don't see why a Murray led team couldn't also win in the future especially if he can improve to be as good as current Booker/Tatum/Butler. I don't know if he will get to that level, but it's at least a possibility. But it's also likely that some superteam will form and dominate the league (the Nets, Lakers, and Clippers already tried to but failed due to injuries).

But I do agree that the chip is there for the pickings right now... And I may sound crazy... But I think if we make the playoffs, we will be a PROBLEM for the Suns...

[duncan2k5]

He’s the only player besides DJ who shoots well on the move. He’s a 3 level scorer, and a plus defender. Isn’t it possible that your standards are just a tad high? He’s the second or third best player on the team.

Completely agree! He is one of the only players on the team that can create his own shot, and is fairly athletic...

[JPB]

U are the only person in NBA history that considers MJ a point guard... Congratulations

I'm not even the only one in this thread, read again... Any person who knows just a bit about BB will tell you he was Bulls real PG, as in the one who called and made the plays with Pippen. Kerr, Paxson or Armstrong were just 3 pt shooters who averaged like 3 assits/game or less, for around 5 for Jordan...

But you're talking about a player and a team you didn't ever see playing, kid... I'm not even suprised you didn't answer the questions you're quoting proving MJ was the real PG cos you just can't and are not able to think beyond a simple designation "PG" to understand the real point on a team is the one who has the ball in hands and make things happen.