7 Questions Answered: Did the Spurs Have a Successful Season?

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antonio-spurs-season-success-questions-answered/

Now that I have more free time, I'm going to challenge myself to write 200 articles over the next year. Let's see if I can do it. :wakeup

Stay tuned, tbh.

[Ocotillo]

:hungry::bobo

[BacktoBasics]

Pop had a great coaching season despite the crybaby bitchfest we constantly get here.

[MultiTroll]

"If they would have actively tanked, they might have been able to drop to the 7th pick."

Thought by missing the Play Out they a had lower % chance at #1 Lottery pick and moving up % points for each subsequent rise 2 3 4 etc?

[exstatic]

Whole BUNCH of motherfuckers better be in here answering YES to #1 after picking 20 wins.

[RC_Drunkford]

this was a very good season. The next one looks promising

[DPG21920]

Spot on. Outside of those who are only happy with Championship or Bust, this was a fun and wildly successful season. I can’t wait to see what the FO does with all their assets heading into an off season that has potential to get SA firmly back in the playoff mix.

Looking forward to a draft / free agency / trade primer, Unc

[Dejounte]

This season showed that this team has quite a bit of talent. Just need another big one.

[Russ]

This season showed that this team has quite a bit of talent. Just need another big one.

The Spurs need to draft a 4 who can score and defend and will, within the next 1-3 years, become the best player on the team. If they can do that (odds are against it), they can become a true contender.

[spurs10]

Great write-up and I greg it was a very successful season for all the reasons stated. I'm also stoked timvp will be writing a mountain of articles. My main reason for being here is his writing, so it will be a great year ahead.

Any thoughts in if we can indeed trade up in the draft with three first round picks? I'm sure it's being considered. I don't have a good enough grasp of this draft to have an educated guess.

[tbdog]

Vassell will get play calls for him next season. I dare say that by year 4, he'll be a 20p scorer. I love his game in this area. His body will fill up soon too.

[Das Texan]

Pop looks energized while coaching. I hope he sticks around a bit longer.

This team allowing him to do things he hasnt done in ages, teach.

[Bojo]

Yeah, I'd say successful as well. The young core played a lot of minutes, Forbes and Eubanks are gone, the guard situation got or at least seems solved, three first round picks in this draft, Murray got the All Star nod, Pop got the record...a lot of good things happened. Although DJ and Keldon posted the bigger numbers, I was very impressed with Vassell. With a draft night probably more exciting than usual coming up, the direction of the team might become very clear soon.

[tbdog]

Walker is the biggest question. Because he is so young and a lot about his game improved while his shot gotten worse. 3 first round picks do mean spurs are probably going to be full in the guards. Also I wouldn't be surprised if the spurs sign Collin Sexton. It's kinda like the spurs mo atm, signing injured talented players, Gay and Zack for example.

[baseline bum]

Really hope Pop is back too. I don't miss the days of Larry Brown, Jerry Tarkanian, and Bob Hill who couldn't develop young talent for shit.

[KobesAchilles]

I think I had the Spurs 11th in the West so the play in to me isn’t a big fucking deal. They still suck. I saw a lot of positives this year but then being better than I thought as a team certainly wasn’t one of them.

I love DJ as an all star and his attitude and him bringing it basically every night

Devin is looking awesome. The dude just makes winning plays. He is very raw still but he looks to score and if he can do two things then he will be set in his career as a role player. He needs to come around ball screens and become a catch and shoot player and if he can do some midrange as well that would be awesome. He won’t ever be a dribbler and I don’t want him to become one

KJ is a SF and I think everybody here sees that. That’s nice to know. He can’t guard the top guys but that doesn’t matter bc nobody can. This whole he can’t stay with SFs thing has to stop. He can stay with the majority of them except for like 6. That’s no reason to play him out of position and have him guard people 4 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier every fucking night. Also his shooting stroke is awesome. I’ve never seen improvement like this.

Poeltl is still a no to me. I see all the winning things he does for our team and I love that he does them. He sets hard screens and gets people that extra half second for a shot, he doesn’t mind if he doesn’t get the ball to shoot, he rebounds decently for us ( a better offensive rebounder than defensive). He blocks shots well too. But he just isn’t talented enough for me. His defenders sag off of him and clog the lane making it more difficult for our poor dribblers to penetrate. He gets out muscled by a lot of players and shrinks against real big men. He also needs to just dunk the fucking ball more. He’s a great role player but I prefer him off the bench.

Get rid of Lonnie hopefully. My offer to drive him to the airport still stands. Get rid of Ewwbanks and KBD and Landale.

Pop was awesome to watch this year. He could’ve easily quit this year but he didn’t. He might not be the same coach and have the same fire but he is a teacher above all and he is constantly teaching our players. And you can see the ones that actually have a brain compared to Lonnie. I hope he continues to coach.

Also if we keep all 3 FRPs this year I’m gonna riot. We do NOT need that much youth. I’d rather trade up with one of our current players for a higher pick or trade for picks in the future. The value in FRPs isn’t actually drafting a player it’s the hope that comes along with it. If we send a team 3 FRPs for a disgruntled star they would jump on that. But if we try to send over 3 of our actual players that we picked they would just laugh.

[MultiTroll]

This could have been done to an extent in 2019.
10Xs moreso in 2020.
1000000 Xs moreso in 2021.

So yes, considering how far the bar has been lowered since the end of 2018 this was a most excellent growth year including trades etc that made sense.

[rascal]

Depends on what they do in the draft. If they blow the draft then it was a bust of a season.

Spurs should try to package a player and a pick or two to move up and get two top 10 picks. But doubt they do anything other than trade away one of their first round picks for a future pick. They need to add more explosiveness to the roster. Too limited in that dimension on the team. Murray cannot be the top player on the team.

#9 draft pick may be just outside of the top talent in the draft making the spurs reach for a player , depending on what other teams do.

[offset formation]

Developmentally? No, debatably.

Front office moves to set up future? Yes, unequivocally.

[rankingtear]

I think I had the Spurs 11th in the West so the play in to me isn’t a big fucking deal. They still suck. I saw a lot of positives this year but then being better than I thought as a team certainly wasn’t one of them.

I love DJ as an all star and his attitude and him bringing it basically every night

Devin is looking awesome. The dude just makes winning plays. He is very raw still but he looks to score and if he can do two things then he will be set in his career as a role player. He needs to come around ball screens and become a catch and shoot player and if he can do some midrange as well that would be awesome. He won’t ever be a dribbler and I don’t want him to become one

KJ is a SF and I think everybody here sees that. That’s nice to know. He can’t guard the top guys but that doesn’t matter bc nobody can. This whole he can’t stay with SFs thing has to stop. He can stay with the majority of them except for like 6. That’s no reason to play him out of position and have him guard people 4 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier every fucking night. Also his shooting stroke is awesome. I’ve never seen improvement like this.

Poeltl is still a no to me. I see all the winning things he does for our team and I love that he does them. He sets hard screens and gets people that extra half second for a shot, he doesn’t mind if he doesn’t get the ball to shoot, he rebounds decently for us ( a better offensive rebounder than defensive). He blocks shots well too. But he just isn’t talented enough for me. His defenders sag off of him and clog the lane making it more difficult for our poor dribblers to penetrate. He gets out muscled by a lot of players and shrinks against real big men. He also needs to just dunk the fucking ball more. He’s a great role player but I prefer him off the bench.

Get rid of Lonnie hopefully. My offer to drive him to the airport still stands. Get rid of Ewwbanks and KBD and Landale.

Pop was awesome to watch this year. He could’ve easily quit this year but he didn’t. He might not be the same coach and have the same fire but he is a teacher above all and he is constantly teaching our players. And you can see the ones that actually have a brain compared to Lonnie. I hope he continues to coach.

Also if we keep all 3 FRPs this year I’m gonna riot. We do NOT need that much youth. I’d rather trade up with one of our current players for a higher pick or trade for picks in the future. The value in FRPs isn’t actually drafting a player it’s the hope that comes along with it. If we send a team 3 FRPs for a disgruntled star they would jump on that. But if we try to send over 3 of our actual players that we picked they would just laugh.

Jakob? Top 10 center off the bench?

[ducks]

For people who did not like Becky it was wonderfully
For those who liked her was terrible

[timtonymanu]

:lol Both LA teams missing the playoffs. What a solid season, tbh.

[KobesAchilles]

Jakob? Top 10 center off the bench?
Worked for Manu :lol

[exstatic]

:lol Both LA teams missing the playoffs. What a solid season, tbh.

LA’s NBA teams spent a combined $420 million this season (including luxury tax).

Neither made the playoffs.

- Bill Simmons

[John B]

Thanks Timvp. I agree with your assessment. Four years after Spurs Big 3 retire and the heir apparent jumped ship and seemingly derailed Spurs future, our proud franchise looks like we have weathered the storm and have corrected its path. Spurs have an All-Star in Dejounte from our own pick, Keldon and Vassell on their way of maybe becoming ones also or at least a very good complimentary players. I’m not a big fan of Poeltl, but he has improved a lot also, yet I still think he’s not the answer in the Center position but could probably remedied pairing with a good size PF. Plenty of good young cores or movable assets, whichever the PATFO decides to do, a huge cap to maneuver adding a caliber FA or trade, 3 first round picks. Life is good. Now it’s telling what our “savvy” management would do in the off-season having all that at disposal. I would’ve like them tanking more to get a better percentage chance of the top 4 picks. But that’s not Spurs way and one can argue that yes that “playoff like” experience could’ve better developmental experience and not losing that “winning culture.” As a longtime Spurs fan, I have come to trust Spurs way, while like many here, bitches along the way :lol. But as PATFO has shown, they know what they’re doing. Pop, I believe, being the major decision maker on the direction of the team and its development. I like him to stay another year or two, to see the fruition of the rebuilding team. I think he would like it too, to see the team back in contention before he passes the helms to his successor.

This is what separates Spurs from the rest of the organizations, and why teams continue to emulate them.

[TDomination]

this was by far the most enjoyable season for me since kawhi left
the first season with derozan where we lost to the nuggets in 7 was somewhat enjoyable but i was expecting more from that team.

my expectations for this team were very low. especially after starting at 4-13. making the play in and especially being ahead of the lakers was a huge success in my eyes. i truly enjoyed this year.

[KingKev]

Overall a very successful season. I was certainly in the 20ish wins camp. Easily Pop’s best coaching season in 4 yrs or so.

DJ making the jump he did and the trade deadline wheeling in dealing is my favourite takeaway from this. Even with cap space, draft capital and young assets I’m not confident we aren’t right back in the play-in next year.

Doubt Pop turns down 11m to coach the final season of his contract. He seems
to be enjoying himself and the pressure to win is probably pretty low with the current roster.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

:lol Both LA teams missing the playoffs. What a solid season, tbh.

:toast

[ZeusWillJudge]

Just a very good article.

The 6 and 7 lottery slots are sort of the sweet spot for moving up to a Top 4 pick, and I think they could have accomplished that without too much trying. But developing young players and getting them a taste of the postseason (even if it's only the play-in) was definitely a bit of compensation. If nothing else, maybe it will give a FA or two some confidence that they won't be joining a sinking ship.

I have just one question for you, though, TIMVP: How do you see the Spurs escaping mediocrity, and maybe even contending again? Piling up mediocre or worse draft picks pretty much means finding a needle in a haystack.

[DPG21920]

Just a very good article.

The 6 and 7 lottery slots are sort of the sweet spot for moving up to a Top 4 pick, and I think they could have accomplished that without too much trying. But developing young players and getting them a taste of the postseason (even if it's only the play-in) was definitely a bit of compensation. If nothing else, maybe it will give a FA or two some confidence that they won't be joining a sinking ship.

I have just one question for you, though, TIMVP: How do you see the Spurs escaping mediocrity, and maybe even contending again? Piling up mediocre or worse draft picks pretty much means finding a needle in a haystack.

I’m not timvp but imo it comes from the modernization of the FO. They finally started trading and learning about asset management. That is the path. Leave no stone unturned, get as many picks as possible and give yourself best shot at landing a star via draft or having a real shot at trading for a star-ish type because you have a trove of assets

[timvp]

Whole BUNCH of motherfuckers better be in here answering YES to #1 after picking 20 wins.

tbh :lol


Spot on. Outside of those who are only happy with Championship or Bust, this was a fun and wildly successful season. I can’t wait to see what the FO does with all their assets heading into an off season that has potential to get SA firmly back in the playoff mix.

Looking forward to a draft / free agency / trade primer, UncI know you have to be as happy as I am that the Spurs finally switched into asset hording mode :tu

[timvp]

Any thoughts in if we can indeed trade up in the draft with three first round picks? I'm sure it's being considered. I don't have a good enough grasp of this draft to have an educated guess.

Teams don't like trading lottery picks nowadays. Something like 9, 21 and 24 probably only gets you up to about 6 in the best case scenario, unfortunately.

[timvp]

Poeltl is still a no to me. I see all the winning things he does for our team and I love that he does them. He sets hard screens and gets people that extra half second for a shot, he doesn’t mind if he doesn’t get the ball to shoot, he rebounds decently for us ( a better offensive rebounder than defensive). He blocks shots well too. But he just isn’t talented enough for me. His defenders sag off of him and clog the lane making it more difficult for our poor dribblers to penetrate. He gets out muscled by a lot of players and shrinks against real big men. He also needs to just dunk the fucking ball more. He’s a great role player but I prefer him off the bench.

I haven't been the planet's biggest Poeltl fan but he made big strides this year. He's an honest-to-goodness offensive threat now. He had a really good season.

That said, I'm not convinced the Spurs should dole out big bucks in a new contract. Centers that can't shoot just aren't that valuable anymore -- especially on teams that lack shooting to begin with.

If a team comes dangling draft picks for Poeltl, I'd have to listen, tbh. A Derrick White-esque package and I'd drive him to the airport.

[timvp]

I have just one question for you, though, TIMVP: How do you see the Spurs escaping mediocrity, and maybe even contending again? Piling up mediocre or worse draft picks pretty much means finding a needle in a haystack.
That's the $64,000 question. Strategically, when you take intangibles out of the equation like "winning culture" and the like, tanking makes the most sense.

But I'm of the belief that the Spurs are the best drafting team in the NBA and if the front office is given enough chances, they'll eventually find that needle. That's why I've advocated for an asset stacking approach where the Spurs pile up as many draft assets as possible. If they're not going to tank (which I think is understandable [if you tank, then you just become another treadmill team with no inherent advantages -- only small market disadvantages]), the other way to go about it is to get as many draft picks as possible, keep a clean salary balance sheet and wait until the next franchise player is discovered.

[DPG21920]

tbh :lol

I know you have to be as happy as I am that the Spurs finally switched into asset hording mode :tu

Oh yeah. Brian showed me a lot this trade deadline and off season so I am way more optimistic regarding this FO at least being self aware. I was always high on the youth and wanted them free’d a year earlier, but big picture SA is in a great spot and the path back towards being a legit playoff team is by being shrewd in the sense of not putting everyone else ahead of the franchise (not saying turn cold, but make clear cut decisions when it means getting extra picks).

[DPG21920]

Teams don't like trading lottery picks nowadays. Something like 9, 21 and 24 probably only gets you up to about 6 in the best case scenario, unfortunately.


Very likely true - I do wonder if a team like POR for example or Lakers, if they luck into the top 3 would be more open to trading. Would POR be interested in Dejounte + Jakob + Pick 20 for Pick 2 + Bledsoe?

I mean, its a long shot I am guessing, but that at least has to be somewhat attractive for a team wanting to win now with Dame? Two really good pieces for him and still a first round pick?

It all depends on how the top 4 are viewed. I know there seems to be consensus on the top 4 but are they viewed as Lebron/Melo/Wade draft class good? I dont think they are - they seem to be a bit more flawed and if teams arent MEGA high on them something like Dejounte/Jakob + still a first has to be appealing Id guess.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Very likely true - I do wonder if a team like POR for example or Lakers, if they luck into the top 3 would be more open to trading. Would POR be interested in Dejounte + Jakob + Pick 20 for Pick 2 + Bledsoe?

I mean, its a long shot I am guessing, but that at least has to be somewhat attractive for a team wanting to win now with Dame? Two really good pieces for him and still a first round pick?

It all depends on how the top 4 are viewed. I know there seems to be consensus on the top 4 but are they viewed as Lebron/Melo/Wade draft class good? I dont think they are - they seem to be a bit more flawed and if teams arent MEGA high on them something like Dejounte/Jakob + still a first has to be appealing Id guess.


The Lakers almost have to do some deals... soon. They're without a FRP, plus they've traded their 2024 or 2025 FRP to the Pels. Their flexibility to make deals is going ot be seriously impacted by Stepien. Seems to me that Boston pick might be more valuable to them. I'm not sure what I would want in exchange from them, but since the Spurs also have enough cap space to eat a contract, there are some three-team possibilities that could be tasty. Maybe that's just the thought of "Lakers" and "desperation" in the same sentence.

This class isn't LeBron, Melo, Wade good - if for no other reason than we don't KNOW. We knew what LeBron was. Still, I can't see anything the Blazers need more than a PF, which is the one thing we can't offer them. I get the "win now with Dame" mentality, and the thought that a rookie... any rookie, might not be what they want. But I don't see a backup for Nurkic adding much value to offset that draft pick differential.

[DPG21920]

The Lakers almost have to do some deals... soon. They're without a FRP, plus they've traded their 2024 or 2025 FRP to the Pels. Their flexibility to make deals is going ot be seriously impacted by Stepien. Seems to me that Boston pick might be more valuable to them. I'm not sure what I would want in exchange from them, but since the Spurs also have enough cap space to eat a contract, there are some three-team possibilities that could be tasty. Maybe that's just the thought of "Lakers" and "desperation" in the same sentence.

This class isn't LeBron, Melo, Wade good - if for no other reason than we don't KNOW. We knew what LeBron was. Still, I can't see anything the Blazers need more than a PF, which is the one thing we can't offer them. I get the "win now with Dame" mentality, and the thought that a rookie... any rookie, might not be what they want. But I don't see a backup for Nurkic adding much value to offset that draft pick differential.

I think that you have to consider Dejounte Murray in that scenario with Jak. Its Dejounte that is the prize. We saw Dame + CJ do damage and they were not even a great fit/compliment. DJ is younger and better and cheaper than CJ and compliments Dame better than CJ too IMO..

[Seventyniner]

The Lakers almost have to do some deals... soon. They're without a FRP, plus they've traded their 2024 or 2025 FRP to the Pels. Their flexibility to make deals is going ot be seriously impacted by Stepien. Seems to me that Boston pick might be more valuable to them. I'm not sure what I would want in exchange from them, but since the Spurs also have enough cap space to eat a contract, there are some three-team possibilities that could be tasty. Maybe that's just the thought of "Lakers" and "desperation" in the same sentence.

Speaking of the Lakers' desperation, I wonder what kind of assets (picks/young players) it would take to pry AD away from them. They would obviously much rather move Westbrook, but AD still has a lot of positive value. The Lakers might even be willing to do a megatrade that ships out both Westbrook and AD (to different teams), using some of the capital from the AD trade to get a team to bite on Westbrook. His salary is gargantuan but it's expiring so a team can John Wall him in the worst-case scenario. Or more likely play him heavy minutes as a form of tanking.

If the Lakers stand pat they are pretty much stuck running it back next year, they are almost at the tax line with just LeBron/AD/Westbrook/THT. A lot of the former big names they got for minimum contracts will probably look to ring-chase, no point taking the minimum on a lottery team, even if it's the Lakers.

[ZeusWillJudge]

That's the $64,000 question. Strategically, when you take intangibles out of the equation like "winning culture" and the like, tanking makes the most sense.

But I'm of the belief that the Spurs are the best drafting team in the NBA and if the front office is given enough chances, they'll eventually find that needle. That's why I've advocated for an asset stacking approach where the Spurs pile up as many draft assets as possible. If they're not going to tank (which I think is understandable [if you tank, then you just become another treadmill team with no inherent advantages -- only small market disadvantages]), the other way to go about it is to get as many draft picks as possible, keep a clean salary balance sheet and wait until the next franchise player is discovered.

That's the bigger issue. There was a time when I thought the Spurs were always the best defensive team in the league, too. Are they still the best drafting team, or are they just slightly better at throwing darts? The Kawhi pick is still recent enough to outweigh any argument I could make against them, but Samanic is more recent and a pretty good counterpoint. I PM'd you a long time ago about why I believe they drafted Primo, and it makes me wonder if they're still what they once were.

Still, if the strategy is to pile up picks for more chances to find that needle in a haystack? Well, I've heard worse ideas. It's really a pretty small haystack, but there just aren't that many needles - especially after the top 5-6 players each year. It was a lot easier to shop that way when they already had Tim, Tony, and Manu in the stable.

My personal problem here is that all my best "I told you so's" are water under the bridge. This year was their last, best year to really tank without getting on the chronic loser treadmill. They're going to have to build on what they have, and mediocre draft picks. I hope Wright is a quick study, and that the Spurs still have some draft magic left.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I think that you have to consider Dejounte Murray in that scenario with Jak. Its Dejounte that is the prize. We saw Dame + CJ do damage and they were not even a great fit/compliment. DJ is younger and better and cheaper than CJ and compliments Dame better than CJ too IMO..


Oh, no, I get that part. But the game is to offer assets that would turn a 9 pick into a Top 4 pick (assuming you wouldn't trade DJ/Poeltl to move up from 9 to 6). All I was saying was that I don't think Jak adds much to the balance beam for Portland. But I guess not many teams will trade a player better than Murray, except maybe for someone whose window has closed, wanting to build around one of these Top-4 guys. And you started out calling it a long shot.

[DPG21920]

Oh, no, I get that part. But the game is to offer assets that would turn a 9 pick into a Top 4 pick (assuming you wouldn't trade DJ/Poeltl to move up from 9 to 6). All I was saying was that I don't think Jak adds much to the balance beam for Portland. But I guess not many teams will trade a player better than Murray, except maybe for someone whose window has closed, wanting to build around one of these Top-4 guys. And you started out calling it a long shot.

Yeah - I mean, I look at it like this: Do they feel that the guy they get at 2-4 is better than Murray now or ever? Do they still think they can get a solid guy at 9? Jakob, whether they value him as a fit is at worst someone they know has value (CHA wanted him) and maybe he nets them another pick (or its a 3 team deal where other assets go to POR and Jakob goes to 3rd team)

But its likely a long shot overall, but if any team would be willing to trade a top 4 pick for Murray and 9 functionally it will be someone like POR

[spursince#99]

Developmentally? No, debatably.

Front office moves to set up future? Yes, unequivocally.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Yeah - I mean, I look at it like this: Do they feel that the guy they get at 2-4 is better than Murray now or ever? Do they still think they can get a solid guy at 9? Jakob, whether they value him as a fit is at worst someone they know has value (CHA wanted him) and maybe he nets them another pick (or its a 3 team deal where other assets go to POR and Jakob goes to 3rd team)

But its likely a long shot overall, but if any team would be willing to trade a top 4 pick for Murray and 9 functionally it will be someone like POR


I love it when someone puts a thought together that makes that much sense. I truly do.

I wouldn't pull that trigger for a 6'4" Ivey. I think he'l be a good player, but not a great player. I've made no secret of the fact that I don't think you can build a team around Slender Man. The Blazers would have to move up. So it's definitely a longshot. But if it's a crack of daylight, I'll take it.

[DPG21920]

I love it when someone puts a thought together that makes that much sense. I truly do.

I wouldn't pull that trigger for a 6'4" Ivey. I think he'l be a good player, but not a great player. I've made no secret of the fact that I don't think you can build a team around Slender Man. The Blazers would have to move up. So it's definitely a longshot. But if it's a crack of daylight, I'll take it.

Yup. Im just sort of putting together a bunch of mental outlines of ideas and opportunities. But theres a lot to be hashed out before anything becomes remotely clear.

Also I trust SA - if they did it for Ivey I would be pretty excited that Ivey is a superstar lol

But of course my preference is to keep Murray, land the top 4 naturally and then its game on. I would rather keep Murray and sign a Lavine and have other trades to move up (keep pick 9, use 20/25/Jakob to get into lottery again for example)

[BackHome]

Yeah so many ways to go it's going to be fun off season see which way the Spurs are going to go with draft/trades/signing free agents etc...

[T Park]

They’re a Banchero and a good free agent signing from contending for the division.

[rastaspur]

Great season imo and within spitting distance of what I predicted. I predicted 36 wins.

[spurs10]

Teams don't like trading lottery picks nowadays. Something like 9, 21 and 24 probably only gets you up to about 6 in the best case scenario, unfortunately. Thanks!