Are they this generation's 2007 Mavericks?

[Millennial_Messiah]

They're looking mighty vulnerable right now. To lose to an 8 seed in a seven-game series was bad enough... could the Suns actually lose to a fucking 10 seed? :lmao

[baseline bum]

Could happen since Booker sounds like he's out for Games 3 & 4. Would fucking blow because this year's Suns are a ridiculously good team, but obviously not without their best player.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Could happen since Booker sounds like he's out for Games 3 & 4. Would fucking blow because this year's Suns are a ridiculously good team, but obviously not without their best player.

IIRC the Mavs were completely healthy but :cry muh Josh Howard was a bit hobbling. Mostly they lost because Dogface ":lol muh MVP" Derp choked on a fat one and Avery Johnson was a dumb preaching Mark Jackson-lite nig nog who refused to play with tempo against at the time the fastest pace team in the league, even more fast paced than the Suns at that time.

The difference between Popovich and Avery Johnson was that Popovich actually played tempo ball against tempo teams, with Manu, TP, Barry etc scoring at will... while AJ was hellbent on converting Derp Nowinzki into Tim Duncan and playing 1990s four-down halfcourt iso ball every single possession. :lol

[Millennial_Messiah]

The 2011 Spurs and 2012 Bulls got eighted but those don't really count because both teams had severe injuries, in the Spurs case the entire big 3 were in and out of the lineup (in Manu's case he severed his arm) and in the Bulls case Derrick Rose tore his ACL at the end of a pretty convincing Game 1 win.

The 1994 Sonics and 1999 Heat got eighted but those don't really count because they were five-game series.

There's one and only one glaring red dot on the analytics chart that really stands alone in NBA playoff upset history in infamy.... and that's the 2007 "Rowdy, Proud & Loud!" Dallas Mavericks.

[Neo.]

Avery Johnson was a dumb preaching Mark Jackson-lite nig nog

Kori Ellis
timvp
Deuce

[Millennial_Messiah]

Kori Ellis (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=6)
timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8)
Deuce (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=3542)
Will Hunting says that shit all the time :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

The 2011 Spurs and 2012 Bulls got eighted but those don't really count because both teams had severe injuries, in the Spurs case the entire big 3 were in and out of the lineup (in Manu's case he severed his arm) and in the Bulls case Derrick Rose tore his ACL at the end of a pretty convincing Game 1 win.

The 1994 Sonics and 1999 Heat got eighted but those don't really count because they were five-game series.

There's one and only one glaring red dot on the analytics chart that really stands alone in NBA playoff upset history in infamy.... and that's the 2007 "Rowdy, Proud & Loud!" Dallas Mavericks.

Hahaha does not really count, huh? That Spurs team was fool's gold and everyone who paid attention that year knew it. Memphis was tanking at the end to get them because they knew they matched up well.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Hahaha does not really count, huh? That Spurs team was fool's gold and everyone who paid attention that year knew it. Memphis was tanking at the end to get them because they knew they matched up well.

Nope, that team was really good and finished with the second best record in the league behind the Bulls, who were more actually like fool's gold and Miami exposed them. But the Spurs beat the Heatles by 30 that year.

I'd say the 2011 Spurs were more comparable to the 2006 Pistons than any other team. Ran up the score way too early in the season, played starters way too many minutes, basically ran them into the ground from opening night onward, starters were great but bench wasn't deep enough, had a really gaudy record the first 70% of the season until the big 3 all went down with pretty serious injuries and nagging injuries and started missing various games and they started losing and the nail in the coffin was when Manu broke his arm in a meaningless game @ Phoenix in like game 81 of 82 when the 1 seed was already clinched.

It's true Memphis knew they had blood in the water with an injured, banged up, and exhausted Spurs team. They definitely wanted no part of the defending back-to-back champion Lakers who at that time were still the favorites to win it all. The Spurs and OKC were next in line. Nobody could have predicted Dallas. Dallas were perennial playoff chokers up to that point.

[Dirks_Finale]

Nope, that team was really good and finished with the second best record in the league behind the Bulls, who were more actually like fool's gold and Miami exposed them. But the Spurs beat the Heatles by 30 that year.

I'd say the 2011 Spurs were more comparable to the 2006 Pistons than any other team. Ran up the score way too early in the season, played starters way too many minutes, basically ran them into the ground from opening night onward, starters were great but bench wasn't deep enough, had a really gaudy record the first 70% of the season until the big 3 all went down with pretty serious injuries and nagging injuries and started missing various games and they started losing and the nail in the coffin was when Manu broke his arm in a meaningless game @ Phoenix in like game 81 of 82 when the 1 seed was already clinched.

It's true Memphis knew they had blood in the water with an injured, banged up, and exhausted Spurs team. They definitely wanted no part of the defending back-to-back champion Lakers who at that time were still the favorites to win it all. The Spurs and OKC were next in line. Nobody could have predicted Dallas. Dallas were perennial playoff chokers up to that point.

Baloney. They did not defend nearly as well as previous Spurs teams. Remember we are talking pre-Kawhi in 2011. Look up their defensive rating that year in comparison to their title teams- there is no comparison because they were not nearly as good. I never took them seriously that year even with a healthy Manu.

[baseline bum]

Hahaha does not really count, huh? That Spurs team was fool's gold and everyone who paid attention that year knew it. Memphis was tanking at the end to get them because they knew they matched up well.

LOL I was listening to Bill Simmons the other day and he kept talking about how good that team was like it was the same team that got hot to end 2012, which actually was an amazing Spurs team. That 2011 Spurs team got fat on early season wins before falling off fucking hard in March and April like they were exhausted or maybe just not capable of shifting to a higher gear once the rest of the league did in March. I think the only playoff team in the west they could have won a series against that year would have been the Hornets. That team was so out of gas and done by April and Memphis knew it and thus tanked to face them like you said. Easily the worst Spurs team Duncan ever played on.

[Dirks_Finale]

LOL I was listening to Bill Simmons the other day and he kept talking about how good that team was like it was the same team that got hot to end 2012, which actually was an amazing Spurs team. That 2011 Spurs team got fat on early season wins before falling off fucking hard in March and April like they were exhausted or maybe just not capable of shifting to a higher gear once the rest of the league did in March. I think the only playoff team in the west they could have won a series against that year would have been the Hornets. That team was so out of gas and done by April and Memphis knew it and thus tanked to face them like you said. Easily the worst Spurs team Duncan ever played on.

Exactly!

I'll give them this, they were fun to watch that year as they moved the ball well and hit like 40% from three which was best in the entire NBA - but it was quite apparent that they were not serious contenders. Even before they ran out of gas, I was telling people they can not sustain this. What were they like 35-5 to start out? I knew that eventually teams would start to do a better job at closing in on shooters and that the Spur's smoke and mirrors defense would be exposed in the playoffs. As you said, to me, 2012 was a much better team overall.

[Millennial_Messiah]

LOL I was listening to Bill Simmons the other day and he kept talking about how good that team was like it was the same team that got hot to end 2012, which actually was an amazing Spurs team. That 2011 Spurs team got fat on early season wins before falling off fucking hard in March and April like they were exhausted or maybe just not capable of shifting to a higher gear once the rest of the league did in March. I think the only playoff team in the west they could have won a series against that year would have been the Hornets. That team was so out of gas and done by April and Memphis knew it and thus tanked to face them like you said. Easily the worst Spurs team Duncan ever played on.

Not even close.....

2009
2010
2015
1998

were all obviously worse, and there's probably others like 2000, 2001 and 2008 that fall into that category as well. 2000-2002 they actually thought they could beat the Lakers by starting 3 bigs and 2 six footers? :lmao

[baseline bum]

Not even close.....

2009
2010
2015
1998

were all obviously worse, and there's probably others like 2000, 2001 and 2008 that fall into that category as well. 2000-2002 they actually thought they could beat the Lakers by starting 3 bigs and 2 six footers? :lmao

No way, the 2010 team beat a Mavs team that would have murdered the 2011 Spurs. The 98 team had a still awesome David Robinson. 2015 Spurs lost on a last second shot to a better Clippers team than the Grizzlies that dominated the 2011 Spurs. Only one you might be able to make a case for is the 09 team, although that was a season Manu was out for the playoffs.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Baloney. They did not defend nearly as well as previous Spurs teams. Remember we are talking pre-Kawhi in 2011. Look up their defensive rating that year in comparison to their title teams- there is no comparison because they were not nearly as good. I never took them seriously that year even with a healthy Manu.
The Spurs defense didn't really come back around until they traded for Stephen Jackson about 60% of the way through the lockout-shortened 2012 season, but they were solid in 2011, maybe not compared to the old title teams but certainly compared to the rest of the NBA. The biggest problem with 2011 was depth as they were really only about 8 deep, Poop refused to play Splitter and Bonner and Blair together (the Turd Towers) were an absolute trainwreck whenever Timmy needed a rest or (god forbid) missed a game. They started out 13-1, 25-3, 37-6, 44-8 and 49-10, but suffered bigtime injuries in March and finished 61-21 and were pretty much cooked geese by the time mid April came.

But still.... nobody could have predicted Dallas. The MSM had Lakers-Heatles tickets booked from opening day, and the Bulls and OKC were also the talk of the town especially after the Hornets completely collapsed after flaming out super early as well that year. ZOMG Derrick Rose, ZOMG Durant and Westbrick and Harden and PERKINS!!! But still the Heatles are unstoppable and the Lakers are two time world champs... Dallas wasn't even on anyone's radar. They'd disappointed in '03, '04, '05, '06 (big time choke), '07 (biggest bad beat in NBA history), '08, '09 and especially '10 (losing as the #2 seed to the #7 Spurs who were terrible all year and it looked like the Big 3 were on their last legs at that point and the Spurs had even worse depth in 2010 than in 2011)... literally nobody had Dallas to win it all in 2011.

[Millennial_Messiah]

No way, the 2010 team beat a Mavs team that would have murdered the 2011 team. The 98 team had a still awesome David Robinson. 2015 Spurs lost on a last second shot to a better Clippers team than the Grizzlies that dominated the 2011 Spurs. Only one you might be able to make a case for is the 09 team, although that was a season Manu was out for the playoffs.

The 2010 team was awful (50-32) and had the worst bench depth in the entire Duncan era. They mustered everything they could manage in round 1 and good ole Bennett Salvatore threw us a bone in game 6, but then we got skunked in the next round against a team we'd dominated since forever because we were just too tired and old and had no depth. The 2015 Spurs made a late run to get as far as they did but they were clearly inferior to 2014 and clearly needed another piece (Aldridge) since the big 3's real last hurrah was in 2014. They weren't a good team. 2009 the Spurs were just awful all year and their record was only as decent as it was because of a bunch of lucky last second shots at the end of close games (mostly against bad or middling teams) by TP and Roger Mason Jr.

Really the 2001 and 2011 Spurs teams were pretty much the same on a lot of accounts. Front runners, star power but no depth, no bench, weak on defense in the backcourt, ran up the score early in the season, flamed out late, and it showed in the playoffs.

[baseline bum]

The 2010 team was awful (50-32) and had the worst bench depth in the entire Duncan era. They mustered everything they could manage in round 1 and good ole Bennett Salvatore threw us a bone in game 6, but then we got skunked in the next round against a team we'd dominated since forever because we were just too tired and old and had no depth. The 2015 Spurs made a late run to get as far as they did but they were clearly inferior to 2014 and clearly needed another piece (Aldridge) since the big 3's real last hurrah was in 2014. They weren't a good team. 2009 the Spurs were just awful all year and their record was only as decent as it was because of a bunch of lucky last second shots at the end of close games (mostly against bad or middling teams) by TP and Roger Mason Jr.

Everyone knew that 2011 Spurs team was fools gold by March. The 2010 team actually beat a really good team in the playoffs, lol blaming Bennett Salvatore. And LOL 2015 Spurs were worse than the 2011 Spurs because they "made a late run"? So winning games in the most difficult part of the season means less than the 2011 Spurs fattening up on disinterested November and December competition?

[baseline bum]

Really the 2001 and 2011 Spurs teams were pretty much the same on a lot of accounts. Front runners, star power but no depth, no bench, weak on defense in the backcourt, ran up the score early in the season, flamed out late, and it showed in the playoffs.

LOL what? The 2001 Spurs were Prime Tim Duncan playing out of his mind and just ran into probably the third or fourth greatest team in NBA history in the WCF while missing their only perimeter scorer.

[Millennial_Messiah]

LOL what? The 2001 Spurs were Prime Tim Duncan playing out of his mind and just ran into probably the third or fourth greatest team in NBA history in the WCF while missing their only perimeter scorer.
They weren't getting past the Lakers with Derek Anderson. DA was on the decline and he was never Manu or even Stephen Jackson. He was pretty much George Hill. a good system player and good shooter for the era but he was too small to play SF and not a good enough defender to match Kobe. The Spurs didn't even have a chance on defense against the Lakers until we nabbed Bruce away from Miami. Trying to guard Kobe/Fisher/Fox with some combination of Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, DA and/or Danny Ferry was a fucking clown show :lmao the Spurs never had a chance before they got real dawgs to match the Lakers like Bowen and Stephen Jackson (who Poop pretty much redshirted in 2002 for no good reason).

Still, my first memory of ever shouting the F word out loud was at age 7 regarding Juwan Howard in that Dallas playoff game... so forever Fuck Juwan Howard, tbh. He showed he's the same old turd as always just this year, tbh.

[baseline bum]

They weren't getting past the Lakers with Derek Anderson. DA was on the decline and he was never Manu or even Stephen Jackson. He was pretty much George Hill. a good system player and good shooter for the era but he was too small to play SF and not a good enough defender to match Kobe. The Spurs didn't even have a chance on defense against the Lakers until we nabbed Bruce away from Miami. Trying to guard Kobe/Fisher/Fox with some combination of Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, DA and/or Danny Ferry was a fucking clown show :lmao the Spurs never had a chance before they got real dawgs to match the Lakers like Bowen and Stephen Jackson (who Poop pretty much redshirted in 2002 for no good reason).

Um yeah they ran into a buzzsaw facing the greatest team the Lakers ever assembled. But they would have destroyed Philly and probably eeked out a series win in 6 or 7 vs Milwaukee strictly on Duncan's dominance that year if Kobe pulled a hamstring or Shaq blew out a knee. While the 2011 Spurs would have gotten beaten by any WC playoff opponent other than New Orleans in the 2011 playoffs.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Everyone knew that 2011 Spurs team was fools gold by March. The 2010 team actually beat a really good team in the playoffs, lol blaming Bennett Salvatore. And LOL 2015 Spurs were worse than the 2011 Spurs because they "made a late run"? So winning games in the most difficult part of the season means less than the 2011 Spurs fattening up on disinterested November and December competition?
The 2011 team was fool's gold and people on here recognized that even before March, I agree. It was not a championship contender and the Bonner/Blair stuff plus Richard Jefferson's wild inconsistency and the lack of depth made it painfully obvious.

But the 2010 team was awful, it was the height of the Dark Ages of the Duncan era. Terrible season and they barely got to 50 wins by winning most of the really close games, again on late game heroic type stuff from the big 3 but it was clear they were aging and Roger Mason Jr. had completely fallen off. Finley was gone, McDyess was about done, George Hill was a surprise plus but the defense wasn't good and they were literally 7 deep and nobody after that was even worthy of the rotation.

The 2010 first round playoff matchup for the Spurs was perfect though. The Ponies already had a reputation for being perennial playoff chokers by that point, and their epic 2010 playoff first round loss as a #2 seed against their arch rivals pretty much cemented, not just in the minds of the mainstream media but to pretty much everyone, that Mark Cuban and the Dallas franchise were complete failures and Dirk's legacy was that he was quite largely the biggest choker in NBA history, even more than say Barkley or Malone because Dirk never had to go through Jordan, for instance. The 2010 playoffs pretty much cemented Dallas and Nowitzki's legacy as the biggest chokers in the history of basketball or even pro sports in general...

..... And then 2011 happened

[Millennial_Messiah]

Um yeah they ran into a buzzsaw facing the greatest team the Lakers ever assembled. But they would have destroyed Philly and probably eeked out a series win in 6 or 7 vs Milwaukee strictly on Duncan's dominance that year if Kobe pulled a hamstring or Shaq blew out a knee. While the 2011 Spurs would have gotten beaten by any WC playoff opponent other than New Orleans in the 2011 playoffs.

The 2011 Spurs - before the injury big killed us in March - would have beaten any WC playoff opponent except perhaps Dallas and maybe OKC which was becoming a buzzsaw rapidly but got outgunned by a herculean Dirk that year. IIRC we dominated the Lakers in the RS that year and were beating teams like Miami by 30. The issues with the 2011 team were injuries caused by poor minute management by Pop caused in turn by poor depth. Gary Neal was too much of a one trick pony and the team as a whole was too flawed outside of an MVP-level Manu and a still-great Duncan and Parker, with occasional flashes from Hill, Dick, Bonbon (lol) and whatever McDyess had left which wasn't much. The team just wasn't deep enough. It took way too long for Poop to realize that Blair wasn't an NBA player and Splitter needed to see the court and not the bench. The depth wasn't solidified until we drafted Kawhi, made Danny Green into an actual NBA player, a Bruce Bowen of sorts... swapped out Dick to get Jackson back, and signed Diaw and Mills midway through the 2012 season.

Honestly the best and deepest Spurs team ever assembled in the Duncan era was his very last year and even that team didn't make it past the second round, yes there were bad calls but it shouldn't have been that close against OKC to begin with. Would we have beaten 73-9 GSW that year...? maybe not but they were sure vulnerable. If OKC could have taken them to the brink, we would have too.

[baseline bum]

The 2011 Spurs - before the injury big killed us in March - would have beaten any WC playoff opponent except perhaps Dallas and maybe OKC which was becoming a buzzsaw rapidly but got outgunned by a herculean Dirk that year. IIRC we dominated the Lakers in the RS that year and were beating teams like Miami by 30. The issues with the 2011 team were injuries caused by poor minute management by Pop caused in turn by poor depth. Gary Neal was too much of a one trick pony and the team as a whole was too flawed outside of an MVP-level Manu and a still-great Duncan and Parker, with occasional flashes from Hill, Dick, Bonbon (lol) and whatever McDyess had left which wasn't much. The team just wasn't deep enough. It took way too long for Poop to realize that Blair wasn't an NBA player and Splitter needed to see the court and not the bench. The depth wasn't solidified until we drafted Kawhi, made Danny Green into an actual NBA player, a Bruce Bowen of sorts... swapped out Dick to get Jackson back, and signed Diaw and Mills midway through the 2012 season.

So the 2011 Spurs would have beaten anyone in the west if they weren't old and if Richard Jefferson wasn't a choker whose game fell off a cliff as soon as the games started to matter? Also LOL 17.4PPG and 4.9AST on 43% shooting being MVP numbers.

[Dirks_Finale]

The Spurs defense didn't really come back around until they traded for Stephen Jackson about 60% of the way through the lockout-shortened 2012 season, but they were solid in 2011, maybe not compared to the old title teams but certainly compared to the rest of the NBA. The biggest problem with 2011 was depth as they were really only about 8 deep, Poop refused to play Splitter and Bonner and Blair together (the Turd Towers) were an absolute trainwreck whenever Timmy needed a rest or (god forbid) missed a game. They started out 13-1, 25-3, 37-6, 44-8 and 49-10, but suffered bigtime injuries in March and finished 61-21 and were pretty much cooked geese by the time mid April came.

But still.... nobody could have predicted Dallas. The MSM had Lakers-Heatles tickets booked from opening day, and the Bulls and OKC were also the talk of the town especially after the Hornets completely collapsed after flaming out super early as well that year. ZOMG Derrick Rose, ZOMG Durant and Westbrick and Harden and PERKINS!!! But still the Heatles are unstoppable and the Lakers are two time world champs... Dallas wasn't even on anyone's radar. They'd disappointed in '03, '04, '05, '06 (big time choke), '07 (biggest bad beat in NBA history), '08, '09 and especially '10 (losing as the #2 seed to the #7 Spurs who were terrible all year and it looked like the Big 3 were on their last legs at that point and the Spurs had even worse depth in 2010 than in 2011)... literally nobody had Dallas to win it all in 2011.

The only reason Dallas was not on the radar was because they had a habit of choking. They started out 24-5 that season before all the injuries piled up. Top 10 defense and offense and finally a atheltic big to compensate for Dirk's weaknesses. If you were paying attention that year, you knew early on that Dallas was for real. You just had to put aside any presuppositions.

[Dirks_Finale]

Not even close.....

2009
2010
2015
1998

were all obviously worse, and there's probably others like 2000, 2001 and 2008 that fall into that category as well. 2000-2002 they actually thought they could beat the Lakers by starting 3 bigs and 2 six footers? :lmao

2015 was actually a very good team. They just lacked hunger, as most Spur's teams did whenever they were defending titles instead of pursuing them.

To me, those 2008-2011 teams were the down era even though it still looked good on paper. The 2012 Spurs got Kawhi and Duncan worked his magic, hired a nutrionist, dropped weight and rejuvinated his career even with a progressive tendonosis issue.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The only reason Dallas was not on the radar was because they had a habit of choking. They started out 24-5 that season before all the injuries piled up. Top 10 defense and offense and finally a atheltic big to compensate for Dirk's weaknesses. If you were paying attention that year, you knew early on that Dallas was for real. You just had to put aside any presuppositions.
Add to the fact they had some severe injuries including season enders to big time contributors like Caron Butler, Corey Brewer, and the extremely overhyped-at-the-time Rodrigue Beaubois who people thought was rapidly ascending into an all star or better type league talent but turned out to be a nobody. (:lol "French Allah"). Peja missed most of the regular season... even Dirk missed a decent chunk of games. People thought they were too thin, too injured, too soft and too reliant on the three ball to win in big games. And the perennial playoff choker thingy.

People didn't really believe Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion and DeShawn Stevenson (guys who had been role players on other choking playoff teams not Dallas in the past) were actually dawgs who were going to topple the Lakers dynasty, retire Phil Jackson and win the whole damn thing. You can add Peja to the list of perennial playoff chokers that redeemed himself with the 2011 Mavs even though he was soft and really more of a shooter than a dawg. And Kidd and Terry too to some extent. I don't think anyone on that team had ever won a ring. Most of them had come close with various teams, though.

[Dirks_Finale]

Add to the fact they had some severe injuries including season enders to big time contributors like Caron Butler, Corey Brewer, and the extremely overhyped-at-the-time Rodrigue Beaubois who people thought was rapidly ascending into an all star or better type league talent but turned out to be a nobody. (:lol "French Allah"). Peja missed most of the regular season... even Dirk missed a decent chunk of games. People thought they were too thin, too injured, too soft and too reliant on the three ball to win in big games. And the perennial playoff choker thingy.

People didn't really believe Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion and DeShawn Stevenson (guys who had been role players on other choking playoff teams not Dallas in the past) were actually dawgs who were going to topple the Lakers dynasty, retire Phil Jackson and win the whole damn thing. You can add Peja to the list of perennial playoff chokers that redeemed himself with the 2011 Mavs even though he was soft. And Kidd and Terry too to some extent. I don't think anyone on that team had ever won a ring. Most of them had come close with various teams, though.

I'll be honest, when he went down I seriously questioned whether they were good enough to make it out of the first round. Never a fan of Predrag and didn't like him as the replacement signing. He proved me wrong.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I'll be honest, when he went down I seriously questioned whether they were good enough to make it out of the first round. Never a fan of Predrag and didn't like the him as the replacement signing. He proved me wrong.

One of the best side plots from the 2011 Finals was Deshawn Stevenson finally getting his long awaited revenge against LeBitch... it was heart warming all around to watch the Heatles choke in the Finals similar to how the Mavs had done five years before.

You weren't a fan of Predrag Stojakovic because he always torched Dallas with the Kings especially in '02 and '04, :lol but yeah he really stepped up to the plate and batted 150 and finally beat his old-time-worn Lakers demons. Another side plot. At least one of the old Kings from '02 got to beat the Kobe-Phil Lakers in a playoff series.

[Dirks_Finale]

One of the best side plots from the 2011 Finals was Deshawn Stevenson finally getting his long awaited revenge against LeBitch... it was heart warming all around to watch the Heatles choke in the Finals similar to how the Mavs had done five years before.

And he was just a filler in that JHO trade.Weird how it all worked out.

[Neo.]

andy not knowing what hes talking about?

what a shocker :rolleyes

[Millennial_Messiah]

andy not knowing what hes talking about?

what a shocker :rolleyes

Aaron Rodgers $50 Million a year only to be the second-best pro sports athlete and second-most recent pro sports champion..... in the state of Wisconsin.

Sad.

[ambchang]

Those late 00's early 10's Spurs highlights the difference between the regular season and the playoffs. In the regular season, one superstar can help carry a team to a decent record because you get to play a bunch of games (14/30, so almost half, by definition) against non-playoff teams, and then another 10 to 15 games against these fringe playoff teams that has no business in the playoffs if not for the fact that 16 out of 30 teams make the playoffs. These types of games usually inflate a badly constructed team's record by allowing them to feast on the weak but then inevitably lose against stronger competition. Think this year's Bulls.

Then the playoffs roll around, these pretenders play better teams, and their competition have 4 to 7 games to figure them out and exploit their weaknesses and they crumble. Duncan after 07/08 was a shell of his former self. Amy broke him, and he got up there in age. The Spurs offence was built more around Manu in the late 00s and then Parker in the early 10s. They are good players, don't get me wrong, but they are not Lebron, Shaq and Duncan in their primes. They can play a central role in the offence, or even be the centre of the offence IF the supporting cast is good enough, but when players like Roger Mason, a geriatric Finley, Neal, Richard Jefferson, and George Hill were a major cog in your offensive machine, you are just not going to go too far. Those Spurs team were also rather average on defence. They just weren't very good teams.

[mystargtr34]

2015 was actually a very good team. They just lacked hunger, as most Spur's teams did whenever they were defending titles instead of pursuing them.

To me, those 2008-2011 teams were the down era even though it still looked good on paper. The 2012 Spurs got Kawhi and Duncan worked his magic, hired a nutrionist, dropped weight and rejuvinated his career even with a progressive tendonosis issue.

Yeah that 2014-2015 team should have been even better than 2014 with Kawhi's rise to All-Star/superstar but after winning in 2014 it was tough for the older guys to back it up. Especially when you consider the journey to the 2014 ring included deep playoff runs and heartbreak in 2012 and 2013.

Plus, that Clippers team was a bad matchup for the Spurs for some reason. CP3 just seemed to get whatever he wanted against the Spurs.

2015-2016 was also an awesome team. I thought the Spurs were rolling to that championship, especially after going up 2-0 against the Thunder and Aldridge playing like an MVP.

[Mark Celibate]

Not even close.....

2009
2010
2015
1998

were all obviously worse, and there's probably others like 2000, 2001 and 2008 that fall into that category as well. 2000-2002 they actually thought they could beat the Lakers by starting 3 bigs and 2 six footers? :lmao

IMO the 2008-09 Spurs were the worst out of the bunch. Lost in 5 to a Dallas team that was also one of the worst in the Nowitzki era tbh

[Mark Celibate]

Add to the fact they had some severe injuries including season enders to big time contributors like Caron Butler, Corey Brewer, and the extremely overhyped-at-the-time Rodrigue Beaubois who people thought was rapidly ascending into an all star or better type league talent but turned out to be a nobody. (:lol "French Allah"). Peja missed most of the regular season... even Dirk missed a decent chunk of games. People thought they were too thin, too injured, too soft and too reliant on the three ball to win in big games. And the perennial playoff choker thingy.

People didn't really believe Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion and DeShawn Stevenson (guys who had been role players on other choking playoff teams not Dallas in the past) were actually dawgs who were going to topple the Lakers dynasty, retire Phil Jackson and win the whole damn thing. You can add Peja to the list of perennial playoff chokers that redeemed himself with the 2011 Mavs even though he was soft and really more of a shooter than a dawg. And Kidd and Terry too to some extent. I don't think anyone on that team had ever won a ring. Most of them had come close with various teams, though.

:lol funny thing is Dallas was picked as prime to be upset by a talented Blazers team, and it almost happened after blowing a 23 pt lead in Game 4 bringing the series tied 2-2. Most people (myself included) thought it was going to be another first round collapse by the "Chokericks" but it's mind boggling to think they went 14-3 after that game to finish out the year against three teams with several HOF players all around their prime

[Neo.]

before the caron/dirk/Tyson injuries happened, I think the Mavs were at like a 65-66 win season pace or something ridiculous, and dirk was getting a lot of early season MVP chatter. they were really underrated because everyone focused on them going on like a 2-9 streak after the injuries, the Lakers game a couple months later where they got punked, then the game against Portland where Rick called them soft afterwards. everyone pretty much gave up them at that point. then he replaced Roddy nashroseparker with deshawn as a starter and everything went back to normal

[baseline bum]

Yeah that 2014-2015 team should have been even better than 2014 with Kawhi's rise to All-Star/superstar but after winning in 2014 it was tough for the older guys to back it up. Especially when you consider the journey to the 2014 ring included deep playoff runs and heartbreak in 2012 and 2013.

Plus, that Clippers team was a bad matchup for the Spurs for some reason. CP3 just seemed to get whatever he wanted against the Spurs.

2015-2016 was also an awesome team. I thought the Spurs were rolling to that championship, especially after going up 2-0 against the Thunder and Aldridge playing like an MVP.

Don't forget Leonard getting shut down by Matt Barnes.

[mystargtr34]

Don't forget Leonard getting shut down by Matt Barnes.

Yeah Kawhi came up small in games 5-7. I just checked the stats from that series and Tony averaged 11 points on 36% shooting and 0% from 3 😂 and Manu 8 points on 35% and Danny 8 points on 34% FG and 30% from 3.

And too much Diaw and not enough Tiago let Griffin go off. Can’t believe the Spurs almost won the series. Probably cause of Duncan’s monster throwback series.

[Millennial_Messiah]

IMO the 2008-09 Spurs were the worst out of the bunch. Lost in 5 to a Dallas team that was also one of the worst in the Nowitzki era tbh

Yup. I don't care that Manu was out for the playoffs, it was a Spurs team very lucky to win as many games as they did (low 50s) because of multiple game winning shots by Roger Mason Jr. and that was TP's best year. No excuses to lose in 5 with HCA to a meh Dallas team with TP in the best year of his prime and Duncan still in his prime. But again, bad depth and both Bowen and Finley were on their last legs that year and it showed.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Yeah Kawhi came up small in games 5-7. I just checked the stats from that series and Tony averaged 11 points on 36% shooting and 0% from 3  and Manu 8 points on 35% and Danny 8 points on 34% FG and 30% from 3.

And too much Diaw and not enough Tiago let Griffin go off. Can’t believe the Spurs almost won the series. Probably cause of Duncan’s monster throwback series.
Yeah you had nearly 40 year old Timmy trying to pull a 2003 out of his ass to beat a better Clippers team that had that unstoppable double screen at the time with CP3/Griffin/Deandre Jordan and all those shooters like Redick and Barnes and Crawford and other guys who seemingly couldn't miss. Even with all that we eeked out a game 5 victory on their court and should have won game 6 at home, we had a commanding 15 point lead late in the 2nd quarter until Poop went with hack-a-Deandre Jordan when WE WERE UP DOUBLE DIGITS AND HAD ALL THE F--KING MOMENTUM. :pctoss

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lol funny thing is Dallas was picked as prime to be upset by a talented Blazers team, and it almost happened after blowing a 23 pt lead in Game 4 bringing the series tied 2-2. Most people (myself included) thought it was going to be another first round collapse by the "Chokericks" but it's mind boggling to think they went 14-3 after that game to finish out the year against three teams with several HOF players all around their prime

:toast 100% agreed. I was pretty sure Dallas was losing to Portland and that Brandon Roy's Blazers were a cinderella team of destiny that year. People may forget that before Damian Lillard the Blazers had Brandon Roy who was *that guy*. He single handedly brought the Blazers back from that 23 point mid-4th quarter deficit (truly one of the most remarkable playoffs I've ever seen to date, along with that Clippers-Grizzlies Game 1 one the next year) - but what made that comeback ultra epic was that it was one guy (Brandon Roy) who did pretty much all the work. It was Jordan-esque.

Even after somehow getting past the Blazers, nobody gave Dallas a snowball's chance in hell to upset the new #1 seed, two-time-defending champion mighty Lakers. Not a chance. Most predictions were Lakers in 5, Lakers in 5, Lakers in 5, but a good amount of experts also predicted a sweep in the Lakers' favor. Nobody.... nobody... nobody gave "_allas", "Nowinski" and the "Chokericks" a fighting chance.


before the caron/dirk/Tyson injuries happened, I think the Mavs were at like a 65-66 win season pace or something ridiculous, and dirk was getting a lot of early season MVP chatter. they were really underrated because everyone focused on them going on like a 2-9 streak after the injuries, the Lakers game a couple months later where they got punked, then the game against Portland where Rick called them soft afterwards. everyone pretty much gave up them at that point. then he replaced Roddy nashroseparker with deshawn as a starter and everything went back to normal

Stevenson was a dawg. Chandler was a dawg. Barea was a pest, Terry was still ole Terry, Kidd was no longer Kidd, but he was still a savvy high BBIQ PG who knew and accepted his new role. Marion knew and accepted his role. They had exactly the right roster, full of older but still-good mercenaries / former all stars at all the right positions that had come up just short in past playoff years but were uber-hungry to get over the hump and build around Dirk to go all the way and get their first and only championship ring.

[Dirks_Finale]

Yeah and didn't Kawhi get outplayed by Matt Barnes for a few games in that series? :lol


Yeah that 2014-2015 team should have been even better than 2014 with Kawhi's rise to All-Star/superstar but after winning in 2014 it was tough for the older guys to back it up. Especially when you consider the journey to the 2014 ring included deep playoff runs and heartbreak in 2012 and 2013.

Plus, that Clippers team was a bad matchup for the Spurs for some reason. CP3 just seemed to get whatever he wanted against the Spurs.

2015-2016 was also an awesome team. I thought the Spurs were rolling to that championship, especially after going up 2-0 against the Thunder and Aldridge playing like an MVP.

[Millennial_Messiah]

But they would have destroyed Philly and probably eeked out a series win in 6 or 7 vs Milwaukee strictly on Duncan's dominance that year if

No; Milwaukee had our number firmly and had won every single game against us from 1998-2002.

Gay Ray Allen was a bone in our throats from the day Duncan set foot on an NBA court until the day we finally retired him in 5 (after ceremoniously retiring Fisher the previous round against OKC). Sam Cassell was a pain in the ass too. Michael Redd, too.

The Spurs didn't finally get a regular season win against Milwaukee in the Duncan era until after Allen was traded to the Sonics for Gary Payton, at the 2003 trade deadline. Heck, we got two of them that year en route to the championship, since both meetings were in March after the trade deadline. All all time stupid trade for the Bucks; they got infinitely worse pretty much immediately. How on earth did they think they were going to get better trading a superstar in his prime for a nearly 40 year old Glove and Desmond fucking Mason? :lol

[baseline bum]

No; Milwaukee had our number firmly and had won every single game against us from 1998-2002.

Gay Ray Allen was a bone in our throats from the day Duncan set foot on an NBA court until the day we finally retired him in 5 (after ceremoniously retiring Fisher the previous round against OKC). Sam Cassell was a pain in the ass too. Michael Redd, too.

The Spurs didn't finally get a regular season win against Milwaukee in the Duncan era until after Allen was traded to the Sonics for Gary Payton, at the 2003 trade deadline. Heck, we got two of them that year en route to the championship, since both meetings were in March after the trade deadline. All all time stupid trade for the Bucks; they got infinitely worse pretty much immediately. How on earth did they think they were going to get better trading a superstar in his prime for a nearly 40 year old Glove and Desmond fucking Mason? :lol

Just like the Spurs dominated Hakeem and the Rockets in the WCF after going 5-1 vs them in the regular season.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Just like the Spurs dominated Hakeem and the Rockets in the WCF after going 5-1 vs them in the regular season.

I'm too young to remember the days of basketball when they played division rivals 6 times a year instead of 4, tbh :lol

that WCF was tricky though, there was no HCA because both crowds traveled to the extent that both arenas were 50/50 in terms of fan support in either stadium. Spurs had the better team but the Rockets had the best player and that was that.

[ambchang]

Just like the Spurs dominated Hakeem and the Rockets in the WCF after going 5-1 vs them in the regular season.
Maybe because rodman decided to hang under the basket getting rebounds leaving Horry wide open possession after possession making the spurs play 4 on 5 defence. Then Rodman would launch six threes in a half in a game but refusing to shoot wide open layups in others to spite the team while Vinny del negro would pass up open threes because he’s too chicken shit and Avery Johnson just can’t shoot anything outside of six feet, making the spurs play 2 on 5 on offence.

[baseline bum]

Maybe because rodman decided to hang under the basket getting rebounds leaving Horry wide open possession after possession making the spurs play 4 on 5 defence. Then Rodman would launch six threes in a half in a game but refusing to shoot wide open layups in others to spite the team while Vinny del negro would pass up open threes because he’s too chicken shit and Avery Johnson just can’t shoot anything outside of six feet, making the spurs play 2 on 5 on offence.

It was three threes in the first quarter of Game 2, after that Hill benched that faggot.

[ambchang]

It was three threes in the first quarter of Game 2, after that Hill benched that faggot.

Sorry. Thought about manute bol.

[TDfan2007]

LOL I was listening to Bill Simmons the other day and he kept talking about how good that team was like it was the same team that got hot to end 2012, which actually was an amazing Spurs team. That 2011 Spurs team got fat on early season wins before falling off fucking hard in March and April like they were exhausted or maybe just not capable of shifting to a higher gear once the rest of the league did in March. I think the only playoff team in the west they could have won a series against that year would have been the Hornets. That team was so out of gas and done by April and Memphis knew it and thus tanked to face them like you said. Easily the worst Spurs team Duncan ever played on.

2011 Spurs were awful defensively by previous standards and had no inside presence since TD pretty much looked done that year.

Manu and Tony picked up the slack offensively, but nobody could cover for Tim's defensive deficiencies until Kawhi came in and Tiago developed

[Neo.]

2011 Spurs were awful defensively by previous standards and had no inside presence since TD pretty much looked done that year.

Manu and Tony picked up the slack offensively, but nobody could cover for Tim's defensive deficiencies until Kawhi came in and Tiago developed

tbqh i dont think it was so much a matter of tim having defensive deficiencies, as opposed to how star players now could just cakewalk to the paint, without a guy like bruce bowen to make them work. kawhi refilled that role, and tim went right back to being arguably the best defensive big in the NBA

[Millennial_Messiah]

tbqh i dont think it was so much a matter of tim having defensive deficiencies, as opposed to how star players now could just cakewalk to the paint, without a guy like bruce bowen to make them work. kawhi refilled that role, and tim went right back to being arguably the best defensive big in the NBA

Yup. Not just Kawhi, but also LDN. When adjusted for pace of possession in the early 2010s compared to the 2000s, the DRtg (rather than going by mere PPG) was better in the Wing Stop era than in the Bowen + whoever at the other wing position (Smitty/Jax/Turkey/Barry/Brown/Finley/RMJ et al.) era. And Dick + Choo-Choo was just an awful combo, not to mention the turd towers.

Pelicans just made it 2-2, making my thread *potentially* relevant again. :D

[TDfan2007]

tbqh i dont think it was so much a matter of tim having defensive deficiencies, as opposed to how star players now could just cakewalk to the paint, without a guy like bruce bowen to make them work. kawhi refilled that role, and tim went right back to being arguably the best defensive big in the NBA

That's a fair point lol.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Time to close this thread tbh. I think 2003 Spurs is a better comparison. Let a pesky inferior team take them to 6

[baseline bum]

tbqh i dont think it was so much a matter of tim having defensive deficiencies, as opposed to how star players now could just cakewalk to the paint, without a guy like bruce bowen to make them work. kawhi refilled that role, and tim went right back to being arguably the best defensive big in the NBA


Yup. Not just Kawhi, but also LDN. When adjusted for pace of possession in the early 2010s compared to the 2000s, the DRtg (rather than going by mere PPG) was better in the Wing Stop era than in the Bowen + whoever at the other wing position (Smitty/Jax/Turkey/Barry/Brown/Finley/RMJ et al.) era. And Dick + Choo-Choo was just an awful combo, not to mention the turd towers.

Pelicans just made it 2-2, making my thread *potentially* relevant again. :D

Adding Leonard / Green / Diaw / Jackson in 2011-12 and sending Jefferson out to Golden State definitely gave Duncan a lot more defensive help, but I think he also lost some weight after two hugely disappointing postseasons in a row if I remember right.

[timtonymanu]

Adding Leonard / Green / Diaw / Jackson in 2011-12 and sending Jefferson out to Golden State definitely gave Duncan a lot more defensive help, but I think he also lost some weight after two hugely disappointing postseasons in a row if I remember right.

Adding Tiago to the rotation as well instead of giving starter minutes to Bonner and Blair.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Adding Leonard / Green / Diaw / Jackson in 2011-12 and sending Jefferson out to Golden State definitely gave Duncan a lot more defensive help, but I think he also lost some weight after two hugely disappointing postseasons in a row if I remember right.

Adding Tiago to the rotation as well instead of giving starter minutes to Bonner and Blair.
Blair and Jefferson were straight up liabilities. Blair was never an NBA player but he was tailor made to dominate pick up games in streetball. He would commit a turnover or throw up a hopeless prayer every single time he actually had a man guarding him and not a wide open layup at the rim. Just not fit for the NBA, even if his knees were structurally intact. One of the lowest-IQ players I've ever seen, but with that height and body he'd be the first guy picked (he'd never be a Captain because he can't shoot beyond 5 feet) and win his pick up team on the streets a lot of pick up games. Jefferson on the other hand was a very athletic and solid NBA player in his early years with the Nets but then injuries derailed his athleticism and he never really learned to play below the rim or play defense and the Spurs got the washed up version of him which was just unfortunate. A guy like Jefferson was bascially the opposite of Timmy, his game aged like a loaf of bread instead of wine because he needed to be able to jump high and twist and turn and make flashy dunks and get fouled in order to be good at all and he just wasn't that player post injuries and couldn't adapt because he didn't have enough old-school "junk" in his game and he was an average spot up shooter at best.

Bonner on the other hand was an asset when used in the Danny Ferry type of role, basically a couple short stints a game to energize the team and nail a few timely threes (see 5). When used in the Horry role, Bonner of course was a liability on defense. But at least he could qualify as an NBA player, albeit not an NBA caliber starter, because he was actually damn good at something, and his role was perfect after Diaw became our Robert Horry 2.0.

[DMC]

Adding Leonard / Green / Diaw / Jackson in 2011-12 and sending Jefferson out to Golden State definitely gave Duncan a lot more defensive help, but I think he also lost some weight after two hugely disappointing postseasons in a row if I remember right.

Amy getting dicked down by Hervé Villechaize helped, Tim was a wild man.