Property Appraisal increases

[CosmicCowboy]

There has been a lot of reaction to the recent appraisal increases...shock may be more appropriate. The fact is, these appraisals are probably accurate...homes in our area HAVE increased in value dramatically. The REAL question we should be asking ourselves is why do the various tax rates have to remain the same as home values go up?? Do the various taxing districts really need 40% more money from each of us this year than they needed last year? If they are going to adjust the appraisals up to current real value then they should adjust the tax rates down to keep up with inflation but not give them a 40% windfall to waste as they see fit, because if we are forced to give it to them they will find a way to spend it. The argument that "The City/County/Schools/Hospitals/VIA are growing and need more money is bogus, because every new house that is built and every new commercial structure that goes up increases their tax base in proportion to the increase in growth. It is time our elected officials actually represented us and not their bureaucracy.

[RandomGuy]

There has been a lot of reaction to the recent appraisal increases...shock may be more appropriate. The fact is, these appraisals are probably accurate...homes in our area HAVE increased in value dramatically. The REAL question we should be asking ourselves is why do the various tax rates have to remain the same as home values go up?? Do the various taxing districts really need 40% more money from each of us this year than they needed last year? If they are going to adjust the appraisals up to current real value then they should adjust the tax rates down to keep up with inflation but not give them a 40% windfall to waste as they see fit, because if we are forced to give it to them they will find a way to spend it. The argument that "The City/County/Schools/Hospitals/VIA are growing and need more money is bogus, because every new house that is built and every new commercial structure that goes up increases their tax base in proportion to the increase in growth. It is time our elected officials actually represented us and not their bureaucracy.

My home's value has risen 70% in six years.

Our country is sucking wind when it comes to getting young people into houses. The price of housing is outpacing that of wages.

Republican policies will never address this, because it means wealth redistribution from poor people to rich people has to reverse.

[CosmicCowboy]

My home's value has risen 70% in six years.

Our country is sucking wind when it comes to getting young people into houses. The price of housing is outpacing that of wages.

Republican policies will never address this, because it means wealth redistribution from poor people to rich people has to reverse.

How exactly is government supposed to regulate housing prices?

[baseline bum]

Middle class gets a bullshit wealth tax but 30% of the country furious at the idea American oligarchs should also face wealth taxes.

[Spurminator]

How exactly is government supposed to regulate housing prices?

By disincentivizing renting/flipping as career moves. By preventing large companies with reams of access to housing price dynamics from buying up all the available houses. Those would be a good start.

[CosmicCowboy]

By disincentivizing renting/flipping as career moves. By preventing large companies with reams of access to housing price dynamics from buying up all the available houses. Those would be a good start.

How exactly are you going to enforce this? Tell people who they can and can't sell their house to?

[FrostKing]

My home's value has risen 70% in six years.

Our country is sucking wind when it comes to getting young people into houses. The price of housing is outpacing that of wages.

Republican policies will never address this, because it means wealth redistribution from poor people to rich people has to reverse.
You are muddling the discussion by bringing poor people into it.

[ElNono]

How exactly are you going to enforce this? Tell people who they can and can't sell their house to?

Don't issue a property title if the buyer isn't qualified based on the rules. No title, no sale.

[vy65]

By disincentivizing renting/flipping as career moves. By preventing large companies with reams of access to housing price dynamics from buying up all the available houses. Those would be a good start.

Putting aside the corporate example, why should renting and flipping homes be penalized? A lot of small businesses/solo entrepreneurs do that.

[vy65]

Here's an idea - repeal the caps on the SALT deduction put in by ole orange fuckface.

[Spurminator]

Putting aside the corporate example, why should renting and flipping homes be penalized? A lot of small businesses/solo entrepreneurs do that.

That's right, and they drive up housing prices as a result.

It's not like I'm suggesting we outright ban it. I'd just like to see more homes sold to people who want to actually live in them.

[spurraider21]

Putting aside the corporate example, why should renting and flipping homes be penalized? A lot of small businesses/solo entrepreneurs do that.
thats not really an explanation for why it would or would not be good policy

[spurraider21]

There has been a lot of reaction to the recent appraisal increases...shock may be more appropriate. The fact is, these appraisals are probably accurate...homes in our area HAVE increased in value dramatically. The REAL question we should be asking ourselves is why do the various tax rates have to remain the same as home values go up?? Do the various taxing districts really need 40% more money from each of us this year than they needed last year? If they are going to adjust the appraisals up to current real value then they should adjust the tax rates down to keep up with inflation but not give them a 40% windfall to waste as they see fit, because if we are forced to give it to them they will find a way to spend it. The argument that "The City/County/Schools/Hospitals/VIA are growing and need more money is bogus, because every new house that is built and every new commercial structure that goes up increases their tax base in proportion to the increase in growth. It is time our elected officials actually represented us and not their bureaucracy.
see? california is the true conservative haven with the bullshit prop 13 preventing their homeowners from experiencing this

[FuzzyLumpkins]

thats not really an explanation for why it would or would not be good policy

given the proposal is about banning a standing legality I would think the burden of proof would be on the other side. And hurting small business owners being undesirable is almost a meme in our culture.

[DMC]

That's right, and they drive up housing prices as a result.

It's not like I'm suggesting we outright ban it. I'd just like to see more homes sold to people who want to actually live in them.
The issue has always been people living beyond their means. Watching house hunters, people with joint but low income think they can squeeze into a house they cannot actually afford, and often they do. Then they default and the home enters the flipping market (pun intended).

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The issue has always been people living beyond their means. Watching house hunters, people with joint but low income think they can squeeze into a house they cannot actually afford, and often they do. Then they default and the home enters the flipping market (pun intended).

Only a moron would use a reality TV show example as an anecdote and think it was valid. All you have shown is that you once again don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

[DMC]

Only a moron would use a reality TV show example as an anecdote and think it was valid. All you have shown is that you once again don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

It's not an example fuckstick :lol Random consumers see people get into these fancy homes then they look at their conditions and they too want a home. What do you think drove the house flipping craze? :lol you really do let your mouth overrun your ass for a titty baby.

[ChumpDumper]

H:loluse Hunters

[ChumpDumper]

You can't make this up.

[Ef-man]

Only a moron would use a reality TV show example as an anecdote and think it was valid. All you have shown is that you once again don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Gotheem!

:lol

[vy65]

thats not really an explanation for why it would or would not be good policy

Helping the middle class by harming the middle class isn't a good explanation for why it would or wouldn't be good policy?

[DMC]

Gotheem!

:lol

Another who doesn't understand basic English :lol

[vy65]

That's right, and they drive up housing prices as a result.

It's not like I'm suggesting we outright ban it. I'd just like to see more homes sold to people who want to actually live in them.

You mentioned renting, which I'm unclear on how that drives up housing prices as a result.

Putting that off to the side, flippers sell to people who want to live in homes. I think your concern is that flippers raise the cost of housing and deprive people who otherwise could afford a home from buying it. To me, that's a problem more directly addressed by increasing inventory and not going after small business.

[Ef-man]

Another who doesn't understand basic English :lol

House Hunters. :lol

[Spurminator]

You mentioned renting, which I'm unclear on how that drives up housing prices as a result.

Supply and demand. If I've got four rental properties that I bought to generate passive income, that's four houses that are no longer on the market for someone looking to buy a home to live in. Every home buyer is not only in competition with other home buyers, but also with people looking for investment opportunities. So disincentivize the investment.


Putting that off to the side, flippers sell to people who want to live in homes. I think your concern is that flippers raise the cost of housing and deprive people who otherwise could afford a home from buying it. To me, that's a problem more directly addressed by increasing inventory and not going after small business.

Kind of feels like you're continuing to use the umbrella term of "small business" to avoid defending the specific practice of flipping. Not all small business is equal nor good. Not every job needs to contribute to society or serve the economy, but flippers are a net negative, and the fact that there are so many of them means it's too easy to do it.

I'm definitely in favor of increasing supply too. But I won't weep for flippers. They can put those skills to use as contractors and help people increase the value of homes they already own.

[SnakeBoy]

Middle class gets a bullshit wealth tax but 30% of the country furious at the idea American oligarchs should also face wealth taxes.

San Antonio oligarchs pay county property taxes just like CC. Probably complain less about it.

[vy65]

Supply and demand. If I've got four rental properties that I bought to generate passive income, that's four houses that are no longer on the market for someone looking to buy a home to live in. Every home buyer is not only in competition with other home buyers, but also with people looking for investment opportunities. So disincentivize the investment.

You're exactly right that it's a supply and demand issue, which is why I find it odd you'd focus on a relatively small subset of the issue. Putting that aside, the original context was - affordable housing. That's different than a path to homeownership. Your hypothetical doesn't account for places like California which have rent controls that provide for affordable housing.


Kind of feels like you're continuing to use the umbrella term of "small business" to avoid defending the specific practice of flipping. Not all small business is equal nor good. Not every job needs to contribute to society or serve the economy, but flippers are a net negative, and the fact that there are so many of them means it's too easy to do it.

I'm definitely in favor of increasing supply too. But I won't weep for flippers. They can put those skills to use as contractors and help people increase the value of homes they already own.

The real issue - which we agree on - is inventory. The issue is way more complicated than investors and flippers (e.g., mortgage rates, supply-chain issues, people wanting more land due to the pandemic, etc...). It's bizarre that you'd focus on penalizing small business owners who flip houses to address the issue. I get that you don't like them, but how are they a net negative (e.g., how do you quantify that)? How do you know it's so easy (e.g., how do you know that they're not trying and flaming out) and why is that a bad thing anyway? In this market, it probably isn't easy or all that profitable considering cost of supplies and the low inventory.

If anything, I could argue that home flippers actually increase home inventory by taking uninhabitable homes and rehabilitating them to be fit for normal occupancy.

These aren't human traffickers - and are oftentimes entrepreneurs who busted their ass to making an honest living.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's not an example fuckstick :lol Random consumers see people get into these fancy homes then they look at their conditions and they too want a home. What do you think drove the house flipping craze? :lol you really do let your mouth overrun your ass for a titty baby.

Simply restating your argument and ignoring your use of a reality TV show to demonstrate it is not good gaslighting, dim.

[DarrinS]

Property tax currently at $12K per year

[Th'Pusher]

Property tax currently at $12K per year

Imagine how many cases Miller and 1.75s of George Dickel you could buy with that $12k.

[DarrinS]

Imagine how many cases Miller and 1.75s of George Dickel you could buy with that $12k.

Luckily, 12K is not even half my annual bonus.

[Th'Pusher]

Luckily, 12K is not even half my annual bonus.

Party on. Stock up on the champagne of beers and well bourbon high roller!

[ChumpDumper]

What a load of unsolicited information....

[Th'Pusher]

What a load of unsolicited information....

It’s important that we thinly veil how much money we have to strangers on the internet by complaining about how much tax we pay.

CC, how are those Comal county tax rates for the lake house? Oh, and Colorado, for that ski lodge. You’ve got to be being taken to the cleaners. Not to mention all the investment properties.

KarrinS, did your property tax go up for that above ground pool you installed?

:lol

[RandomGuy]

How exactly is government supposed to regulate housing prices?

zoning. tax rules favoring certain types of development.

simply make it more profitable to build starter housing.

or hell, tax the fuck out of the rich, and provide housing assistance.

[Isitjustme?]

My home's value has risen 70% in six years.

Our country is sucking wind when it comes to getting young people into houses. The price of housing is outpacing that of wages.

Republican policies will never address this, because it means wealth redistribution from poor people to rich people has to reverse.

tbh this is much more of a supply issue and in many cases a NIMBY issue than a right/left issue. Newsom can't even get the NIMBY fucks in Cali to allow him to build more housing and that state is Royal Blue

[Ef-man]

Simply restating your argument and ignoring your use of a reality TV show to demonstrate it is not good gaslighting, dim.

DMC: That was not an example, it happens all the time on reality TV, not just on House Hunters, in all reality TV :lol Random home buyers searching for the perfect house, get help from the Property Brothers, but they spend more than they should because of the pressure from the producers who want more drama for the show. Then, when the couple gets in financial trouble and cannot pay the mortage, the producers from Flip or Flop show up and put more pressure on them, thus driving the house flipping craze, hence the term, reality TV. :lol You really think I would say things if I had not saved my favorite programs from Home and Garden TV? I do not gaslight, you gaslight because you probably only have basic cable from COX and cannot afford to watch these premium cable shows and that make me go hmm.

[Spurminator]

You're exactly right that it's a supply and demand issue, which is why I find it odd you'd focus on a relatively small subset of the issue. Putting that aside, the original context was - affordable housing. That's different than a path to homeownership. Your hypothetical doesn't account for places like California which have rent controls that provide for affordable housing.

The real issue - which we agree on - is inventory. The issue is way more complicated than investors and flippers (e.g., mortgage rates, supply-chain issues, people wanting more land due to the pandemic, etc...). It's bizarre that you'd focus on penalizing small business owners who flip houses to address the issue.

The original context wasn't affordable housing, it was CC asking "How can the government regulate housing prices?" in the context of a property tax discussion and me giving a couple of examples. It was in no way meant to be comprehensive. The corporate predators were a larger focus in my response than independent landlords and flippers.

I'm 100% in favor of more affordable housing. I don't know that it's the best example for a response to the OP though.


I get that you don't like them, but how are they a net negative (e.g., how do you quantify that)? How do you know it's so easy (e.g., how do you know that they're not trying and flaming out) and why is that a bad thing anyway? In this market, it probably isn't easy or all that profitable considering cost of supplies and the low inventory.

They are a net negative because they drive up property taxes by using houses as investments instead of homes. Instead of housing prices and property taxes increasing naturally based on where people want to live, they are bloated by a needless industry of middlemen. It's bad enough that they drive up pricing for home buyers, but the resulting effect to property taxes means they impact entire neighborhoods... and the worst of it happens in middle class neighborhoods.

I don't think they're bad people. I just think their chosen profession should be discouraged. It wouldn't be the first time we've legislated against certain industries.


If anything, I could argue that home flippers actually increase home inventory by taking uninhabitable homes and rehabilitating them to be fit for normal occupancy.

Flippers who rehabilitate previously uninhabitable homes are a small percentage of the category. I'm fine with them. I'm sure whatever hypothetical legislation we agree on can detail out how they would be excluded from penalties. Hell, I'd even give them more tax benefits.

[CosmicCowboy]

It’s important that we thinly veil how much money we have to strangers on the internet by complaining about how much tax we pay.

CC, how are those Comal county tax rates for the lake house? Oh, and Colorado, for that ski lodge. You’ve got to be being taken to the cleaners. Not to mention all the investment properties.

KarrinS, did your property tax go up for that above ground pool you installed?

:lol

You asked. The lake house taxes are fucking ridiculous. They were already high and going up $4000 more for this year. Colorado, on the other hand intentionally keep the appraisal low and property taxes lower. The total property taxes in Gunnison County on a $750,000 house are under $3000.

[CosmicCowboy]

BTW, the original question had nothing to do with affordable housing. It was about appraisals going up 30-40% and thus property taxes going up 30-40%. Why do the various taxing entities need 30-40% increases year over year. Property taxes should go up no faster than inflation.

[Spurminator]

BTW, the original question had nothing to do with affordable housing. It was about appraisals going up 30-40% and thus property taxes going up 30-40%. Why do the various taxing entities need 30-40% increases year over year. Property taxes should go up no faster than inflation.

They don't get a 30-40% increase in funds. In Texas, property tax increases are capped at 10% of the increase in appraised value.

[CosmicCowboy]

They don't get a 30-40% increase in funds. In Texas, property tax increases are capped at 10% of the increase in appraised value.

So why do they need a 10% increase year over year?

[Spurminator]

So why do they need a 10% increase year over year?

They don't get 10% either. 10% is the ceiling for any individual house. Not every home's property tax increases by 10%, so the total for those entities will never be 10%. (Excluding new homes)

And once you split among the various entities, it's probably close to the same as inflation.

[Spurminator]

SAISD, for example, projects an increase of about 1.5% from property tax revenue.

https://www.saisd.net/upload/page/0255/2021-22_District_Budget.pdf

[vy65]

They don't get a 30-40% increase in funds. In Texas, property tax increases are capped at 10% of the increase in appraised value.

I'm pretty sure that's only on homestead exemptions, not investment properties/second homes.

Edit. It's only on homestead exemptions. Tex. Prop. Code 23.23(a)(2)(A).

[Spurminator]

I'm pretty sure that's only on homestead exemptions, not investment properties/second homes.

Edit. It's only on homestead exemptions. Tex. Prop. Code 23.23(a)(2)(A).

That's right and a fair point, but even with that factored in, the total revenue increase from property taxes is still nowhere near 30-40% per year.

[vy65]

That's right and a fair point, but even with that factored in, the total revenue increase from property taxes is still nowhere near 30-40% per year.

Yeah I have no way of knowing. You could be right. But I've seen property values increase over 40% in Austin, but I'm not attuned to how that's reflected in property tax increases.

[Spurminator]

Yeah I have no way of knowing. You could be right. But I've seen property values increase over 40% in Austin, but I'm not attuned to how that's reflected in property tax increases.

I can't find any primary data on it but according to this article (citing the TX Comptroller's Office) the total increase in property tax revenue has been 20% since 2017, so that figures to be less than 5% on an annual basis.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/04/22/texas-property-taxes-explained/

Not saying I'm okay with this. I'd rather we had a state income tax anyway.

[SnakeBoy]

You asked. The lake house taxes are fucking ridiculous. They were already high and going up $4000 more for this year. Colorado, on the other hand intentionally keep the appraisal low and property taxes lower. The total property taxes in Gunnison County on a $750,000 house are under $3000.

Colorado has state income tax and the overall tax burden is higher in Colorado. Really I don't think you have much to complain about here. I mean, ideologically I don't think there should be any property taxes at all and only income & sales taxes but I can't complain about paying such a low tax rate overall.

[RandomGuy]

tbh this is much more of a supply issue and in many cases a NIMBY issue than a right/left issue. Newsom can't even get the NIMBY fucks in Cali to allow him to build more housing and that state is Royal Blue

:tu

Totally agree.

[DMC]

The issue has always been people living beyond their means. Watching house hunters, people with joint but low income think they can squeeze into a house they cannot actually afford, and often they do. Then they default and the home enters the flipping market (pun intended).
Notice the comma? Notice I didn't say "I was watching house hunters?"

So these idiots who watch HGTV all day get itchy to buy more than they can afford. Stop buying more than you can afford. (your daddeh gave you everything so you're exempt).

Exactly, not an example.

Simply restating your argument and ignoring your use of a reality TV show to demonstrate it is not good gaslighting, dim.
Learn to read.

[pgardn]

Business friendly.

Not family friendly. Watch how you raise those kids as well. Dont say gay. Btw, parents have the final say in how they raise their kids in that house but not really if "we" dont like it.

- The confused big red machine that is Texas

[Winehole23]

Paywalled, but affordability already a big problem (even for middle class folks) with no relief on the horizon.

If the market can't solve this, maybe the government should start to -- by building more housing.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsF7V3-WAAEoiAv?format=jpg&name=mediumhttps://fortune.com/2023/02/02/minimum-wage-workers-need-multiple-jobs-roommates-afford-rent/

[baseline bum]

Paywalled, but affordability already a big problem (even for middle class folks) with no relief on the horizon.

If the market can't solve this, maybe the government should start to -- by building more housing.

https://fortune.com/2023/02/02/minimum-wage-workers-need-multiple-jobs-roommates-afford-rent/

But those jobs are for muh high school kids! Nevermind any time you go to a fast food place you'll see almost all the employees are adults, and plenty of seniors are cooking fries too. But fuck them, they're all lazy shits who are getting what they deserve, amirite?

[Blake]

But those jobs are for muh high school kids! Nevermind any time you go to a fast food place you'll see almost all the employees are adults, and plenty of seniors are cooking fries too. But fuck them, they're all lazy shits who are getting what they deserve, amirite?

Those seniors that don't have a million in the bank must have made some really poor life decisions, amirite CC

[djohn2oo8]

Saw a nice increase this year

[baseline bum]

Those seniors that don't have a million in the bank must have made some really poor life decisions, amirite CC

Lazy for working a shit job. Lazy if they don't want to work a shit job. Either way fuck the poors.

[CosmicCowboy]

Those seniors that don't have a million in the bank must have made some really poor life decisions, amirite CC

You clearly have. Must really bother you since I said nothing in this thread about minimum skill, minimum wage jobs.

[Blake]

Or it was really hilarious for you to say in the other thread

[CosmicCowboy]

Still living rent free in loser Blake's head.

[Winehole23]

"You remembering what I said on the same topic is me living rent free in your head, loser."

[Winehole23]

lol expecting other long time posters to be like goldfish.

[Winehole23]

Personal teasing aside, this is gonna be a big political issue if it isn't already. The most educated cohort in US history isn't getting a fair shake.