AJ Griffin - 2022 NBA Draft Prospect

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/aj-griffin-nba-draft-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-outlook/

I wrote a scouting report on AJ Griffin from the Spurs prospective and included a few video clips. He's a draft prospect I want to like -- but the deeper I dive, the less interested I am in him. At 9, I'd be underwhelmed.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Good review. Every time I watch film of him he drops a tier on my big board. He's super weird to evaluate - he shows the opposite of what my expectations are. Dude plays like he has a backpack full of stones slowing him down, can't beat anyone off the dribble, can't get to the rim. If it weren't for the occasional flashes of great footwork and self creation I'd wonder why he's projected in the first round at all.

Also the less said about his defense the better. He plays like a 40 year old Harden - you can't go through him because he's big and strong but any player showing minimal effort blows by him with ease.

I'd be very concerned if the Spurs pick him in the lottery.

[John B]

Is he going to grow another 3-4 inches? Because that’s who I want the Spurs pick at #9. I mean this kid looks like a safe bet, sound fundamentals, can shoot and score, albeit not as explosive. Underwhelming is a good word, while he’s already an nba body at 18. Next.

[BatManu20]

Pretty confident he’ll be available wherever we end up selecting. Hopefully we pass on him. Not that he’s not a good player, I just think there’ll be better options at that spot.

I don’t like that he’s lost so much athleticism already with those knee injuries at such a young age. Plays below the rim now. He has a really wide stance when he shoots too. Just too many red flags for me. I think he ends up falling out of the top-10 entirely.

[Mr. Body]

Bad defender, poor athlete, can't even dribble that well. It's astonishing he's in top 10 consideration. I'm not even sure his shooting is for real. A guy who can only do one thing isn't a lottery pick, esp when he's a negative value everywhere else. A team with two lottery picks might find a decent niche player though I'd much rather grab Mathurin or Davis from the same player type.

As for Duke players, Wendell Moore may be a value pick. Not a lot of attention on him at this point.

[mo7888]

I'm not as down on him... The injury concerns are worrisome but, I haven't dinged him for that yet simply because teams haven't gotten to evaluate it yet and there haven't been any leaks of those evaluations. If there are long-term or chronic concerns he'll fall considerably...I'm kind of in 'wait and see' mode on that.

[The Truth #6]

Agree with others. Kind of odd how high he has been ranked so consistently high. I'll be honest I haven't studied him closely, but the assessments all consistently say: injury concerns, loss of athleticism, mainly a shooter, average defender. That doesn't sound like a top ten pick. Sort of makes you doubt the group think in general about draft boards. If I squint I sort of see a Saddiq Bey type player, maybe.

[lmbebo]

If he slipped to our pick in the 20s, I'd take him. #9 would be too high.

[rascal]

Not impressed with Griffin.

Plays below the rim and doesn't look explosive and has a wide stance unorthodox looking shot.

[SAGirl]

Wow, reading that I found myself wondering why that guy was even a lottery talent. It looks like he will fall.
Thanks for the report.

[couchman]

Agree with this scouting report.
Griffin and TyTy are at the top of my "please don't draft these guys" list.
If we had a team already contending and looking to improve with a hole at the 3 position he might be a good plug and play guy.
We are not that team.

[duncan2150]

Bad defender, poor athlete, can't even dribble that well. It's astonishing he's in top 10 consideration. I'm not even sure his shooting is for real. A guy who can only do one thing isn't a lottery pick, esp when he's a negative value everywhere else. A team with two lottery picks might find a decent niche player though I'd much rather grab Mathurin or Davis from the same player type.

As for Duke players, Wendell Moore may be a value pick. Not a lot of attention on him at this point.

That's not astonish Imo, he's one of the better prospects in this class offensively while playing not at 100% this year. He's really talented.

But at the End i'll not take him because of his injuries and D. He is actually a really Bad defender except in the post.

[Uriel]

If we end up drafting a player from Duke, I hope it will be Paolo Banchero because we ended up winning the lottery.

[rascal]

If we end up drafting a player from Duke, I hope it will be Paolo Banchero because we ended up winning the lottery.

So Banchero is who you would take at 1?

[duncan2150]

https://youtu.be/p8rkz4HBEGE

I will add this fresh scouting to the thread. You'll see in the strenghts why he is a lottery guy.

[jjspur]

Every year some highly rated "lottery" player drops out of the lottery into the 15-25 zone for whatever reason. This guy has a lot of nice qualities but has some obvious flaws. I see him the type that's really good at one or two things but just so so at everything else, important to a team just not important enough to spend a lottery pick on. Probably lands just outside the lottery in between the spurs 9th and 20th picks. Some team will take him and he will be successful, it probably just wont be the spurs. Think Brandon Clarke, highly rated college career but passed on during the lottery, flawed but still a successful NBA player.

[BacktoBasics]

Maybe its the wide stance but there's not much elevation when he shoots.

[Seventyniner]

I hope he goes top 8.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Maybe its the wide stance but there's not much elevation when he shoots.

I imagine some team like Sacramento will draft him, try to change his shot and make him a career 27% shooter.

[Mr. Body]

That's not astonish Imo, he's one of the better prospects in this class offensively while playing not at 100% this year. He's really talented.

But at the End i'll not take him because of his injuries and D. He is actually a really Bad defender except in the post.

He's not that talented, no. He can shoot, that's it. Too much hangs on athleticism returning and evenso there are better prospects in the top 10.

[duncan2150]

He's not that talented, no. He can shoot, that's it. Too much hangs on athleticism returning and evenso there are better prospects in the top 10.

It's not like we'll fight for this but for me he's talented and without a debate. The scouting i posted shows it for the offensive side.

Still we agree cause i'll not draft him.

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/p8rkz4HBEGE

I will add this fresh scouting to the thread. You'll see in the strenghts why he is a lottery guy.

Everyone should watch from about 7:00 on. An exceptionally bad defender. Not just because his athleticism is miserable. He's much worse than even Alperen Sengun was. Opposing teams would headhunt him at will and destroy us.

[duncan2150]

Everyone should watch from about 7:00 on. An exceptionally bad defender. Not just because his athleticism is miserable. He's much worse than even Alperen Sengun was. Opposing teams would headhunt him at will and destroy us.

That's why i'll not take him.

But if you watch all the video, you could see the offensive potential.

[widowmaker]

Pass.

[CGD]

I've been high on him in the past, but have to admit ive become increasingly lukewarm. For his supposed "tools" the lack of defensive intensity/interest is worrisome. Plus, i think we drafted a better version of this guy last year in Josh Primo.

Curious for a similar scouting of Johnny Davis. Its been the opposite for me with that guy: was originally down on him, but growing more interested given his midrange shot creation potential, swag, and defensive ratings. Size is obviously less than ideal.

[John B]

https://youtu.be/p8rkz4HBEGE

I will add this fresh scouting to the thread. You'll see in the strenghts why he is a lottery guy.

A great shooter with defensive liability. Don't show this to Pop :lol

[Mr. Body]

I've been high on him in the past, but have to admit ive become increasingly lukewarm. For his supposed "tools" the lack of defensive intensity/interest is worrisome. Plus, i think we drafted a better version of this guy last year in Josh Primo.

Curious for a similar scouting of Johnny Davis. Its been the opposite for me with that guy: was originally down on him, but growing more interested given his midrange shot creation potential, swag, and defensive ratings. Size is obviously less than ideal.

Same with me for Davis. I have questions, same with Mathurin, but he's coming back for me. That rebounding rate and his defense add to the interest.

[Uriel]

So Banchero is who you would take at 1?
I think he's the best fit for our current roster and would make the most immediate impact. But when it comes to long-term upside, Smith or Holmgren might be better.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I think he's the best fit for our current roster and would make the most immediate impact. But when it comes to long-term upside, Smith or Holmgren might be better.

Jabari Smith for me is the best pick. Highest upside of all the prospects and great attitude. Fits a need and the culture.

[Marco]

One of the most overrated prospects.

[ZeusWillJudge]

https://www.spurstalk.com/aj-griffin-nba-draft-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-outlook/

I wrote a scouting report on AJ Griffin from the Spurs prospective and included a few video clips. He's a draft prospect I want to like -- but the deeper I dive, the less interested I am in him. At 9, I'd be underwhelmed.



Wow, you're prolific these days. I thought your target of 200 articles was pretty ambitious, but at this rate it's not in doubt.

A few monts ago, when I thought the Spurs would be picking around 13-14, and Griffin hadn't ridden up the mock draft ladder, someone asked me about Griffin. I was pretty down on him, but started running through what I had seen, and what the numbers showed, and had to say that I wouldn't hate it if the Spurs picked him. But he impressed me less as the season wore on.

I would HATE him at #9. Without question, hate that pick. But I would really rather see the Spurs take a hard pass on him. There are too many other options, and if the Spurs really don't keep all 3 FRP's I would rather them get through the offseason without him on the roster.

[wildbill2u]

Doesn't fit into Spurs defensive culture. Taller Forbes? Not a top pick IMO

[SAGirl]

https://youtu.be/p8rkz4HBEGE

I will add this fresh scouting to the thread. You'll see in the strenghts why he is a lottery guy.
Thanks for sharing that. I can glimpse the reason he’s in the lottery now but its not a compelling case. One can’t discount completely guys that are very efficient offensively at a young age, no matter how their game looks. He is not just a stagnant jump shooter, he’ll relocate and dribble step to a 3 if he has to, and it seems like he was very good at that.

But even his offensive highlights are underwhelming because many shots are wide open, with a few contests from guys smaller than him who cant get to his shot. His shot is slow and low, creating real concern he will not be able to get it off in the NBA quickly enough to be a volume 3 pt shooter, where his value lies.

The injury history, the bad defense. Honestly he looks slower than SloMo Anderson, which is hard to do. I am wary of ignoring productive players regardless of how their game looks but this guy has too many red flags specially for the lottery. Anderson went 30 for comparison. He has so many red flags, from the injury history sapping all his athleticism at a young age, to him being unable to dribble past any college athlete, to the horrendous defense unable to stay in front of college athletes.

On top of all this, the Spurs already have a similar prospect in Joshua Primo. Primo was not as efficient shooting as AJ Griffin at the same age, and Primo was a TO machine in comparison, but they are similar and Primo stands a chance at being better, while already needing to improve. Think of what altering his shot did to Primo’s efficiency this season. If Griffin ends up having to adjust his shot as well, he’ll suffer a similar hit to his usefulness and everything else that hes bad at will drive everyone crazy.

Between the redundancy in the Spurs to the red flags, he’s a no. As an aside that fans here will resonate with, in tankathon one of his biggest pluses is youth. I am wary if that is one of your biggest pluses. I am starting to believe that youth is a plus only if the prospect already looks interesting and good to begin with.

[rascal]

I think he's the best fit for our current roster and would make the most immediate impact. But when it comes to long-term upside, Smith or Holmgren might be better.

I don't care about current roster. The Spurs need to shoot for the highest ceiling superstar talent and that's Sharpe.

The spurs are on at least a three year plan to turn the team into one of the better teams in the league.

[TD 21]

Reminds me somewhat of a smaller Harrison Barnes. Was initially thought to be a better athlete (though this is more injury related) and shot creator than he is and instead looks more like a 3 and D type (whether he's good at it or not).

Young, supposed "good character", a possible shooter, with a combo forward frame, seemingly checks a lot of boxes. But I agree that the Spurs need to aim higher.

[BackHome]

I can see why he is in the lottery but hard pass because of injury history

[Dejounte]

Guy has always been low on my board when others were high on him earlier in the season, I’m glad others’ perception of him is catching up to mine.

[PhantomDashCam]

1837241283032797305

Seems wild. Retiring from basketball at 21…

[Ice009]

Well, I hope he's not faking and using it as an excuse to get off the Rockets, then signs with someone else of his choice 6-12 months later.

if it's legit, I hope he gets his head right and comes back after taking some time off. He must have loved basketball enough at some point to put in all the work to get to NBA level player/athlete. I hate seeing someone waste all that talent and hard work that he's done to get here.

[exstatic]

Well, I hope he's not faking and using it as an excuse to get off the Rockets, then signs with someone else of his choice 6-12 months later.

if it's legit, I hope he gets his head right and comes back after taking some time off. He must have loved basketball enough at some point to put in all the work to get to NBA level player/athlete. I hate seeing someone waste all that talent and hard work that he's done to get here.

Sometimes, people do what their parents push them to do. My niece married a young man who went all the way thru med school, and on the eve of his wedding, he told his parents he didn’t want to be a doctor. Mayhem ensued, and I think he wound up doing phone work or some kind of consulting.

[Mr. Body]

He's looney toons.

Rockets also had Royce White, also looney toons, who is the Republican candidate for Senate in Minnesota this year. Just checked White's wikipedia:

In June 2024, he tweeted a map of drinking fountains in Minneapolis, claiming it was a map of crimes.

[Pauleta14]

Well, I hope he's not faking and using it as an excuse to get off the Rockets, then signs with someone else of his choice 6-12 months later.

if it's legit, I hope he gets his head right and comes back after taking some time off. He must have loved basketball enough at some point to put in all the work to get to NBA level player/athlete. I hate seeing someone waste all that talent and hard work that he's done to get here.

Can you do that after being bought out?

[BackHome]

Sometimes, people do what their parents push them to do. My niece married a young man who went all the way thru med school, and on the eve of his wedding, he told his parents he didn’t want to be a doctor. Mayhem ensued, and I think he wound up doing phone work or some kind of consulting.

Yeah, his old man was in the NBA so probably definitely a lot of pressure to follow in Pops shoes. As I said before that draft his injury history was concerning which really hampers young players to reach potential.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, his old man was in the NBA so probably definitely a lot of pressure to follow in Pops shoes. As I said before that draft his injury history was concerning which really hampers young players to reach potential.

His father was also drummed out for being a religious lunatic.

[baseline bum]

He's looney toons.

Rockets also had Royce White, also looney toons, who is the Republican candidate for Senate in Minnesota this year. Just checked White's wikipedia:

In June 2024, he tweeted a map of drinking fountains in Minneapolis, claiming it was a map of crimes.

JFC that is so on brand for the GOP to have a lunatic like that win the primary in a state they're claiming to make inroads in.

[baseline bum]

.

nm

[exstatic]

His father was also drummed out for being a religious lunatic.

He was an insecure douche bag who not only didn’t listen to his assistants, he humiliated former NBA HC Terry Stotts, leading to his resignation.

[Ice009]

Sometimes, people do what their parents push them to do. My niece married a young man who went all the way thru med school, and on the eve of his wedding, he told his parents he didn’t want to be a doctor. Mayhem ensued, and I think he wound up doing phone work or some kind of consulting.

Yeah, I mean, I guess I didn't look at that angle. He could have grown up with it, had the talent and went that path because that is what he was expected to do and was good at it. Maybe he never really loved it, I don't know.

Interesting story about your niece's husband. Hopefully they are doing well with whatever he's doing now. If I had started something like that (med school), not sure I'd have the guts to pull out of something like that to follow a true passion that might not work out. It's especially interesting that he completed it, so it wasn't an issue of not being able to do it/finish it, so it's much harder to change course when you're at that point.

Anyway, the point of me saying that, it's easy to quit when you're not doing good at something, but when you're actually doing good at something, but don't like doing it, or don't love it, it's much harder to pursue what you really love as they money might not be there. Not many people have the courage to do that.


He's looney toons.

Rockets also had Royce White, also looney toons, who is the Republican candidate for Senate in Minnesota this year. Just checked White's wikipedia:

In June 2024, he tweeted a map of drinking fountains in Minneapolis, claiming it was a map of crimes.

Yeah, darn, that is not good. Not good at all. I do remember Royce White being afraid to get on planes or something? I can't remember if he played any games in the NBA?


Can you do that after being bought out?

Not sure. I was sort of wondering if there is a rule in place.


Yeah, his old man was in the NBA so probably definitely a lot of pressure to follow in Pops shoes. As I said before that draft his injury history was concerning which really hampers young players to reach potential.

Did he have injury issues coming into the NBA? I didn't know as I never followed him. I remember some people here at Spurstalk say he'd be an interesting pick during that draft.


His father was also drummed out for being a religious lunatic.

Does he actually push that on people?


He was an insecure douche bag who not only didn’t listen to his assistants, he humiliated former NBA HC Terry Stotts, leading to his resignation.

What did he do to Terry Stotts? I always liked Stotts when he was coaching the Trailblazers. He seemed like a really good guy and decent coach.

[Mr. Body]

I believe Adrian Griffin was really pushing people's nerves with his religiosity, but take that with a grain of salt. Stuff like telling people they were demonic for going to Beyonce concerts. Given NBA culture, I can see that not flying. Other players who have that reputation are Jonathan Isaacs and Gordon Hayward, from what I understand.

It seems AJ Griffin posts a lot about how the Rapture is imminent, that the Gaza stuff is a sign of the end of the world, and he seems to be retiring to get his soul right.

[The Truth #6]

I suppose if he thinks the world is about to end, uh yeah, better start wrapping things up!

[exstatic]

Short cutting it. Real men want to go through Armageddon.

[daslicer]

AJ's dad made close to 10 mil in career earnings as a player and now the Bucks owe his dad 12 mil after they fired him. My point is this kid was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He comes from money so he doesn't really value money the way a normal person would. This to me is a huge reason why it's easy for him to walk away and become a religious nutcase and not think of the consequences of leaving several million on the table.

Even though his dad is loaded he might regret retiring early later on in his life if he didn't manage his finances properly or ends up not getting a good inheritance from his dad. Even if your parents are successful you want to set yourself up in a way that you can be independent of them and not under their influence or having to rely on them.

[Joseph Kony]

Lol he's a jeebotard giving up his life to dedicate himself to ministering because he thinks the end days are upon us :lol what a fucking tool. waste of a life like so many others throwing their time away on religious nonsense

[jeebus]

Lol he's a jeebotard

:cry

[spurraider21]

Seems wild. Retiring from basketball at 21…
on one hand, yeah. but its also a pretty wild lifestyle/profession. definitely not for everybody, even if they have the talent to pursue it.

[baseline bum]

:cry

Just started up Echoes of Wisdom; pretty wild playing as the Princess and trying to save Zelda this time tbh.

[jeebus]

Just started up Echoes of Wisdom; pretty wild playing as the Princess and trying to save Link this time tbh.

I'm waiting to buy it. I go on vacation in a few days and I hate getting balls deep in a game then having to quit it for a week.

[ismael-robert]

Lol even Zelda goin woke, thanks dems

[baseline bum]

Lol even Zelda goin woke, thanks dems

LOL threatened by having a female main character in a video game. At least she's not a ###### amirite?

[Dejounte]

Who the fuck cares if the main character of a video game is female or male? The things people get wrapped up in is crazy.

[Mr. Body]

Who the fuck cares if the main character of a video game is female or male? The things people get wrapped up in is crazy.

A lot of men won't play a female character. They also won't let a doctor touch their butt, so they just die of prostate cancer.

[Joseph Kony]

Who the fuck cares if the main character of a video game is female or male? The things people get wrapped up in is crazy.
incels have been brainwashed into thinking female or minority lead character = WOKE

[PhantomDashCam]

Who the fuck cares if the main character of a video game is female or male? The things people get wrapped up in is crazy.

To be fair, usually it doesn't (for most that is, admitting there are extremes on both sides).
The problem is though pop culture and entertainment at large have become ideological battlegrounds for race, sex and identity based politics - eschewing story, design and fun in the process.

One red flag that often pops up is that a once male lead character franchise is often passed over for a said female contemporary. (Here, Zelda is the main character, rather than Link, which seems odd because Link has been the lead character for almost 40 years).

During playing/engaging, the audience is then bludgeoned and told repeatedly about how good this new character/s is, how much better they are than the previous character - without ever really earning it - potentially destroying canonical events, key character decisions etc. without respect for the groundwork laid before.
If you're invested in the IP, it can be a really soul destroying experience. It often always follows the same playbook too...

FWIW, I don't think the new Zelda game is a good example of this (due to the history of the main characters relationship) but it does seem to happen quite a bit and often leads to an objectively inferior product when judged holistically...

[Dejounte]

To be fair, usually it doesn't (for most that is, admitting there are extremes on both sides).
The problem is though pop culture and entertainment at large have become ideological battlegrounds for race, sex and identity based politics - eschewing story, design and fun in the process.

One red flag that often pops up is that a once male lead character franchise is often passed over for a said female contemporary. (Here, Zelda is the main character, rather than Link, which seems odd because Link has been the lead character for almost 40 years).

During playing/engaging, the audience is then bludgeoned and told repeatedly about how good this new character/s is, how much better they are than the previous character - without ever really earning it - potentially destroying canonical events, key character decisions etc. without respect for the groundwork laid before.
If you're invested in the IP, it can be a really soul destroying experience. It often always follows the same playbook too...

FWIW, I don't think the new Zelda game is a good example of this (due to the history of the main characters relationship) but it does seem to happen quite a bit and often leads to an objectively inferior product when judged holistically...

Name better examples then. I can think of many examples where a change occurred and it was the right call. People get way too attached to how things were and can’t handle it when a product branches out. Originals can stay cemented in history without new ideas overriding them. This doesn’t have to be complicated.

These stories aren’t iconic because of the lead character’s race or gender. They are iconic because of the story’s theme, conflict, and resolution are relatable to ALL humans. Peter Parker being white was never THE draw… it was his struggle, his loss, his compassion, his weaknesses that made him appeal to all people of different races and gender. Miles Morales was created and guess what? The writers gave that character similar story elements and it captured the same essence of what Spiderman is about while expanding its audience and adding new narratives that can be explored.

[baseline bum]

To be fair, usually it doesn't (for most that is, admitting there are extremes on both sides).
The problem is though pop culture and entertainment at large have become ideological battlegrounds for race, sex and identity based politics - eschewing story, design and fun in the process.

One red flag that often pops up is that a once male lead character franchise is often passed over for a said female contemporary. (Here, Zelda is the main character, rather than Link, which seems odd because Link has been the lead character for almost 40 years).

During playing/engaging, the audience is then bludgeoned and told repeatedly about how good this new character/s is, how much better they are than the previous character - without ever really earning it - potentially destroying canonical events, key character decisions etc. without respect for the groundwork laid before.
If you're invested in the IP, it can be a really soul destroying experience. It often always follows the same playbook too...

FWIW, I don't think the new Zelda game is a good example of this (due to the history of the main characters relationship) but it does seem to happen quite a bit and often leads to an objectively inferior product when judged holistically...

tH3Y k1ll3D j03L aND m@d3 u PL@y aZ a l3sBiaN eLLi3! mUH s0UL cRu$h3D!

[baseline bum]

Name better examples then. I can think of many examples where a change occurred and it was the right call. People get way too attached to how things were and can’t handle it when a product branches out. Originals can stay cemented in history without new ideas overriding them. This doesn’t have to be complicated.

These stories aren’t iconic because of the lead character’s race or gender. They are iconic because of the story’s theme, conflict, and resolution are relatable to ALL humans. Peter Parker being white was never THE draw… it was his struggle, his loss, his compassion, his weaknesses that made him appeal to all people of different races and gender.

Th3Y M@dE j03L's dAuGhtEr @ n3gR0!

[jeebus]

tH3Y k1ll3D j03L aND m@d3 u PL@y aZ a l3sBiaN eLLi3! mUH s0UL cRu$h3D!

tbh there wasn't an outcry when you could play as Zelda in this 90s banger:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelda%27s_Adventure

[baseline bum]

tbh there wasn't an outcry when you could play as Zelda in this 90s banger:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelda%27s_Adventure

Speaking of Zelda CD-i games, have you ever checked out Ship of Harkinian? Best way I have ever played Ocarina and their announcement videos always use cutscenes from those CD-i Zeldas.

[PhantomDashCam]

Name better examples then. I can think of many examples where a change occurred and it was the right call.

Ironic though that you've named only one. Do you know the history of Miles Morales and his creation?
Dr. Who, Star Wars, TLOU, God Of War are but a few examples for which I speak.


People get way too attached to how things were and can’t handle it when a product branches out. Originals can stay cemented in history without new ideas overriding them. This doesn’t have to be complicated.

These stories aren’t iconic because of the lead character’s race or gender. They are iconic because of the story’s theme, conflict, and resolution are relatable to ALL humans. Peter Parker being white was never THE draw… it was his struggle, his loss, his compassion, his weaknesses that made him appeal to all people of different races and gender.

I agree completely with this statement. The Human condition is what has allowed us to empathise with stories and characters for thousands of years.

I also believe in biological differences between Sexes and Geographical/Topographical/Religious differences between Cultures.
There are many creating the stories and content you're consuming that do not and will make sure that this is known at every opportunity.
It can be canonically corrosive when introduced or idiotic for the sake of pandering. Which brings me to this...


tH3Y k1ll3D j03L aND m@d3 u PL@y aZ a l3sBiaN eLLi3! mUH s0UL cRu$h3D!

I think most people had an issue with Abby (poorly written, 50% of the experience, bait and switch) in the sequel and Ellie's "pointless" quest (which I'm sure some would argue was the point).

During a Zombie Apocalypse, where every potential contact with humans and their skin is lethal, why does Abby wear a sleeveless top during raids and punch said Zombies in the face? Come on man.

[baseline bum]

Ironic though that you've named only one. Do you know the history of Miles Morales and his creation?
Dr. Who, Star Wars, TLOU, God Of War are but a few examples for which I speak.


So negro Spider Man bad. What are you butthurt at God of War for?




I also believe in biological differences between Sexes and Geographical/Topographical/Religious differences between Cultures.


Check, Abby should have kept her ass in the kitchen.




I think most people had an issue with Abby (poorly written, 50% of the experience, bait and switch) in the sequel and Ellie's "pointless" quest (which I'm sure some would argue was the point).


You think wrong as a whining vocal minority thinking you speak for the fanbase. Abby was awesome and I hope she's a huge part of Part III. She was there to show how futile Ellie's quest for revenge was since she had gone through the same getting back at Joel and was an awesome addition to the story.


During a Zombie Apocalypse, where every potential contact with humans and their skin is lethal, why does Abby wear a sleeveless top during raids and punch said Zombies in the face? Come on man.


Did you watch that scene of her getting plowed and now you're sexually confused getting a boner to someone with such strong arms?

[Dejounte]

Ironic though that you've named only one. Do you know the history of Miles Morales and his creation?
Dr. Who, Star Wars, TLOU, God Of War are but a few examples for which I speak.



I agree completely with this statement. The Human condition is what has allowed us to empathise with stories and characters for thousands of years.

I also believe in biological differences between Sexes and Geographical/Topographical/Religious differences between Cultures.
There are many creating the stories and content you're consuming that do not and will make sure that this is known at every opportunity.
It can be canonically corrosive when introduced or idiotic for the sake of pandering. Which brings me to this...



I think most people had an issue with Abby (poorly written, 50% of the experience, bait and switch) in the sequel and Ellie's "pointless" quest (which I'm sure some would argue was the point).

During a Zombie Apocalypse, where every potential contact with humans and their skin is lethal, why does Abby wear a sleeveless top during raids and punch said Zombies in the face? Come on man.

What’s ironic? I was asking you to name a good example after you yourself said you listed a bad one. Me providing one in my post wasn’t a “one-up” to yours but fits entirely into the context of my post which was explaining why race or gender doesn’t matter when it comes to most products.

We can certainly go back and forth about specific products like the ones you mentioned and argue over if it’s justified or not (I believe 3/4 of the ones you listed it was justified) but that would be ignoring the main point of which I already said in my previous post.

You said you understand that it’s the human condition that allows people to empathize and that you think the creators of newer content that switch up the background context of core elements (characters, setting, etc. ) do not understand the impact of changing these elements and how it affects it negatively. You say their purpose for doing so is due to pandering, to which I disagree because the matter is much more nuanced than that. So let’s focus on those points:

1) Changing background context of core elements has a negative impact

False, I’ve already stated that it’s the human condition that’s integral to the heart of the product, a point you already agreed with. If Atreus was a girl in God of War, that would have had so small of an impact to the overall story, of which is a masterpiece. I don’t even want to know why you listed God of War in your post, but part of me thinks it’s because there was a black girl in the game (I forgot the character’s name). To think that THIS is one of your takeaways from that legendary game just gives me the ick.

2) Creators do it because they pander

I won’t say this is entirely false because I do believe some companies push an agenda and influence the creator they’re paying in order to reach a wider audience and that’s where I would draw a line. But I think those examples are too few and far between. In a general sense, creators have a vision that they’d like to follow and when they make choices to make certain characters a specific race or gender then that’s the creative vision that their audience should respect. Creators whose visions are changed by the publishers that pay them are the few with no self-respect.

So ultimately it’s creator vs. publisher-influenced creator. When it’s a creator who has made a story, setting, theme that resonates with a lot of people also makes a choice to include a character that is, let’s say, black because they think it fits the story… then that’s their decision and it should have no impact on its viewers who loved everything else about the product.

Now are there publisher-influenced creations that are justified? Sure. I don’t watch Dr. Who, but correct me if I’m wrong, it has gone on for decades and they needed some way to keep it fresh. I don’t blame the publisher for wanting a creator who has a different idea on the main character’s background in order to introduce new ideas.

Should we even blame publishers for trying to gain a wider reach? They’re putting their money in and just like any product or service, a company can make decisions on what they think fits their vision and objective so they can yield the return they hoped for.

[Dejounte]

In the end, most people wouldn’t invest a thought beyond superficial level on this topic like you or I for reasons such as:
1) they’re too lazy to critically think about things
2) they’re unable to critically think about things (typically due to lack of education)
3) they refuse to critically think about things because their pride and ego is too overwhelming
4) they refuse to critically think about things because their preconceived biases, bigotry is above all else

and then there are guys like baseline bum, who thinks this is a preposterous topic to begin with, is likely capable of putting the same effort in his posts like I’m doing but is too tired of the bullshit. Honestly, I find myself close to where he is sometimes.

[baseline bum]

I don’t even want to know why you listed God of War in your post, but part of me thinks it’s because there was a black girl in the game (I forgot the character’s name). To think that THIS is one of your takeaways from that legendary game just gives me the ick.

Ah so that's why. Never understood how raging racists pissed off about black Spiderman can watch a sport dominated by black men.

[tim_duncan_fan]

So negro Spider Man bad. What are you butthurt at God of War for?




Check, Abby should have kept her ass in the kitchen.




You think wrong as a whining vocal minority thinking you speak for the fanbase. Abby was awesome and I hope she's a huge part of Part III. She was there to show how futile Ellie's quest for revenge was since she had gone through the same getting back at Joel and was an awesome addition to the story.



Did you watch that scene of her getting plowed and now you're sexually confused getting a boner to someone with such strong arms?


I happen to know this one. One of the norse legend characters is black in one of the recent God of War games.

I wonder how close to school shooter PhantomDashcel is on the pipeline. That's one of the common endpoints of this.

[jeebus]

Speaking of Zelda CD-i games, have you ever checked out Ship of Harkinian? Best way I have ever played Ocarina and their announcement videos always use cutscenes from those CD-i Zeldas.

I have not, but looking it up...you got me curious