Johnny Davis - 2022 NBA Draft Prospect

[timvp]

Complete Johnny Davis scouting report and Spurs outlook (https://www.spurstalk.com/johnny-davis-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-spurs-outlook/)


https://i.imgur.com/dOrvyyQ.png
Johnny Davis
Age: 20.3
School: Wisconsin
Height w/ Shoes: 6-foot-5.75
Height w/o Shoes: 6-foot-4.25
Wingspan: 6-foot-8.5
Position: SG/SF

Strengths
+Competitiveness
+Scoring upside
+Rebounding

Weaknesses
-Efficiency
-Shooting
-Size

Complete Johnny Davis scouting report and Spurs outlook (https://www.spurstalk.com/johnny-davis-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-spurs-outlook/)

[Ariel]

Links point to combine measurements. Correct link is this: https://www.spurstalk.com/johnny-davis-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-spurs-outlook/

[timvp]

Links point to combine measurements. Correct link is this: https://www.spurstalk.com/johnny-davis-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-spurs-outlook/

Oops, thx.

[Ariel]

Good read. I think this is key:

Offensively, Davis had to carry a massive load. Surrounded by a herd of future dairy farmers, he had no choice but to put Wisconsin on his back. While his efficiency suffered as a result, Davis flashed the ability to score from virtually every spot on the court. From step-back three-pointers to self-created mid-range jumpers to bold forays into the teeth of the defense, he did a lot of everything. He also averaged more than six free throw attempts per game and shot them at 79.1%.
In the NBA, Davis will likely take a secondary or tertiary role on offense, which will assuredly improve his efficiency. However, he exhibited enough promise as a No. 1 option that it’s possible that he could be a high volume scorer at the next level. With better teammates and improved spacing, Davis’ ability to score from all three levels could potentially turn him into a go-to scorer. That’s not a likely outcome but it’s definitely a possibility if he keeps developing — and that’s not something that can be said about many players in this draft.
Also, I don't think his size is an issue. Most NBA shooting guards advertised as 6'6" are actually his size... he's about average. His athleticism is not up to par, though, but his effort will go a long way to make up for it. He's probably the one guy with clearest 2 way potential at that slot. If he extends his range a bit, which is reasonable given time, work ethic and better looks, he'll be a very good starting guard for many years. I really like him.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1527370989054533633

[Mr. Body]

The ghost of Michael Finley wants this to happen.

[Dejounte]

Shades of Jordan Clarkson on offense and Donte Divincenzo on defense

i think there are better options IMO

[rankingtear]

Competitiveness is an outlier seen from surprise all stars.

[RC_Drunkford]

getting Klay Thompson vibes from him. Seems like a good fit next to DJ, if we didn't have 13 shooting guards on the roster already. Hard pass for me

[daslicer]

getting Klay Thompson vibes from him. Seems like a good fit next to DJ, if we didn't have 13 shooting guards on the roster already. Hard pass for me

He is undersized. Klay is a legit 6'7 with shoes.

[BatManu20]

My favorite player in CBB this season. Most productive Guard in college and the best footwork of any Guard in the draft imo. An argument can be made that he was the best offensive player altogether, only behind Keegan Murray.

Anyways, love his game and would be happy with the pick personally (depending on who’s still on the board). Think the Spurs pass on him though in favor of Dyson Daniels, AJ Griffin, Ben Mathurin, or Sochan.

[BatManu20]

Think he winds up a Wizard or a Knick. Probably the latter.

[John B]

I wonder who gets to gym first, him or Dejounte :lol

The kid is every coaches dream. A natural leader and will to win. Pop would be giddy to have him in the team.

[BatManu20]

Should be noted he measured nearly 6’6 in shoes despite his 6’5 listing. Only a 6’9 wingspan though.

1526952588998062089

[BatManu20]

I wonder who gets to gym first, him or Dejounte :lol

The kid is every coaches dream. A natural leader and will to win. Pop would be giddy to have him in the team.

Agree that whatever coach gets him will be a happy one. His intangibles are off the charts. Smart player, high character, natural born leader, gym rat, super competitive, gives maximum effort, etc.

[John B]

I feel whatever lacking in his game, he will just work on it to the T. And the Spurs are not short on developing players if the willingness is there. I just feel by the end of the game, he will not be gun shy to take the shot, attack the rim, block a shot, whatever to win. Manu comes to mind.

[Ariel]

He is undersized. Klay is a legit 6'7 with shoes.
Klay is a whole inch and a half taller (6'4.25" vs 6'5.75"). If there's a difference (there is!), that's not it.

[BatManu20]

Posted these in the Draft Thread back in February.



Johnny Davis is so damn good. 13 straight points to close the game for the Badgers on the road. His game translates great to the next level. Arguably the most NBA ready prospect in the Draft. Could see him winning ROY. Reminds me a bit of Brandon Roy with his game. Not as athletic or explosive as Jaden Ivey, but a more polished offensive player right now (put up 37 pts & 14 rbs against Ivey & Purdue earlier this season). Just a smart, smooth basketball player who takes over in the clutch. Kid is a gamer.

He’s my favorite to win the Naismith College Player of the Year Award right now. Probably the greatest player in Wisconsin Basketball history honestly. We likely won’t be the team to draft him, but he’s a really good/safe prospect imo.


1493802136349593603


Kid is a monster.

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[BatManu20]

I think Johnny Davis’ 3-point shooting will continue to improve at the next level with more reps and better spacing than he had at Wisconsin. Just a matter of time imo.

Another underrated aspect of his game that most guards in this draft don’t have is his post-up ability. He was the best SG in the post in CBB this season. Really good in that department with his advanced footwork and mid-range ability.

I like him better than Agbaji personally. Not quite as athletic and not the 3-point shooter Agbaji is, but he’s 2 years younger, is better off the dribble, and is better in the midrange. I also just like his iso-ability to go get you a bucket when you need one better.


Here’s some examples of Davis’ ability in the post from one game against one of the best defensive teams in CBB.

He shows some of his footwork, midrange touch, and passing ability in just a handful of possessions.


1491449958155055106

[mystargtr34]

Yeah Davis measurements are actually really good for a 2-guard. 6’4.25 without shoes is essentially 6’5 - 6’6 in actual NBA height. And his standing reach of 8’7.5 is very good. Same reach as Klay who is 1.5 inches taller. He’s also got big hands which probably explains his above average rebounding, handles and finishing at the rim.

[PhantomDashCam]

Where do you guys rate him compared to Bouknight last year? I wasn't a fan of Bouknight but thought he was a better NBA scoring prospect than Davis, which from a ball-dominant SG I believe is kind of mandatory.

I like Davis' competitiveness and toughness but I don't know what his role is at the next level.

[timvp]

Yeah Davis measurements are actually really good for a 2-guard. 6’4.25 without shoes is essentially 6’5 - 6’6 in actual NBA height. And his standing reach of 8’7.5 is very good. Same reach as Klay who is 1.5 inches taller. He’s also got big hands which probably explains his above average rebounding, handles and finishing at the rim.

His size is good for a shooting guard. But for the super switchability that someone like Dyson Daniels brings to the table, you'd want him to be a little bit bigger. Davis would be too small to be one of those 2/3/4 play-anywhere players, most likely.

Speaking of Daniels, Daniels vs. Davis is an extremely tough choice for me. Daniels is younger, bigger, a better passer and has a better overall feel. Davis is by far the better scoring prospect though and brings a boatload of intangibles to the table. I like Daniels' switchability but I think I'm starting to lean more Davis than Daniels. It's really close.

[mystargtr34]

I think Davis can go as high as 7 at Portland and I don’t think he will drop past the Knicks at 11.

Portland (Billups) will like his toughness, defense and playmaking. I don’t think the Pelicans will take him at 8. I could see the Spurs taking him at 9. I could see the Wizards taking him at 10 and making him and Beal the backcourt sharing ball handling and play making duties. I also think Thibs will love him at 11 as they need playmaking and defense.

If somehow he drops past 11 I can see him sliding to the Cavs at 14 as I think the Thunder and Hornets both pass him up for bigger needs.

[Chinook]

I think switchability has become overrated in the modern NBA. You need guys who can guard a position well rather than just "well enough". If Davis can guard Ja and Trae, then he has value. If he can't, I don't care what SGs, SFs or PFs he can guard. It doesn't matter. The Spurs have a number of team defenders who can make an impact off the ball or if they don't have to cover multiple guys, but stars still eat right through those players. Finding that guy should be the team's top priority if they even look at a guy under 6-7. Davis being able to do this makes him interesting if the Spurs trade back. It doesn't make him all that interesting at 9. I don't care about moxie. Guys with chutzpa can be found all over the draft. Give me a guy with the skills the Spurs need at nine and look for those intangibles with the later picks.

[mystargtr34]

His size is good for a shooting guard. But for the super switchability that someone like Dyson Daniels brings to the table, you'd want him to be a little bit bigger. Davis would be too small to be one of those 2/3/4 play-anywhere players, most likely.

Speaking of Daniels, Daniels vs. Davis is an extremely tough choice for me. Daniels is younger, bigger, a better passer and has a better overall feel. Davis is by far the better scoring prospect though and brings a boatload of intangibles to the table. I like Daniels' switchability but I think I'm starting to lean more Davis than Daniels. It's really close.

Yeah agree I see Davis as a big combo guard who can occasionally slide up to the 3 for spot minutes depending on the matchup, where as Daniels has big wing size and is a potential four position defender. Just checked his combine numbers and yeah, 6’6 without shoes (+1.75” on Davis), 8’9 standing reach (+1.5” on Davis), 6’10.5 wingspan (+2” on Davis). Those are ‘big wing’ type measurements.

I think Davis and Daniels are going to be tough to split for a few teams in the 7-11 range, Portland at 7, Spurs at 9, Wizards at 10, Knicks at 11. I think New Orleans at 8 goes with shooting such as Mathurin or Griffin.

[Mr. Body]

My issues with Davis... The ball stuck a lot in his hands, he was a ballstopper. When the ball moved to him, he often stared down the defense before making moves. He wasn't great from downtown. He's not an explosive athlete and required savviness to get open. He could have trouble with separation and finishing around the rim. Was somewhat tunnel visioned in attack. Was mid-range dominant.

What I like about Davis... A great competitor. Very good and willing defender, even when carrying a massive scoring load. Craftiness with the ball -- he clears defenders at speed without fouling them because of control and craft. Great rebounder at his size. Shot more free throws per than Zion Williamson. Character and competetiveness seem to be very high. Could be a relentless and active scorer.

I think the ball-sticking was a factor of his usage rate. Can he make snap decisions in moving the ball in a motion offense? With defenses not utterly keyed on him, can he hit at a better rate from deep?

I am fairly confident the issues surrounding the sticking and slowness to start moves were situational to how bad Wisky's offense otherwise was. I believe he can be effective if his usage scales down.

Right now, the Spurs only have two slashers -- Dejounte, Walker, and I think Walker is gone. Right now, the Spurs don't have a single player who can be counted on to score when needed. Davis is used to that role.

He is not my first pick at #9 right now, but he's definitely on my short list.

[SAGirl]

I think switchability has become overrated in the modern NBA. You need guys who can guard a position well rather than just "well enough". If Davis can guard Ja and Trae, then he has value. If he can't, I don't care what SGs, SFs or PFs he can guard. It doesn't matter. The Spurs have a number of team defenders who can make an impact off the ball or if they don't have to cover multiple guys, but stars still eat right through those players. Finding that guy should be the team's top priority if they even look at a guy under 6-7. Davis being able to do this makes him interesting if the Spurs trade back. It doesn't make him all that interesting at 9. I don't care about moxie. Guys with chutzpa can be found all over the draft. Give me a guy with the skills the Spurs need at nine and look for those intangibles with the later picks.
Prepare yourself for disappointment then. Not because of Davis, but bc I think the Spurs just look at youth, character and potential with their highest pick, not need.

I hate to bring him up but it just comes to mind... What do you think the Spurs were looking for with Primo? The only thing one knew for sure was that he could shoot and play off the ball and was so young that there was potential for more. They also valued his growth plates a lot for some reason, hoping that even physically he'd grow to be a more impressive specimen. It was all potential.

Spurs have been taking tickets with very young guys and not look at any specific need like you describe but some potential to be a star wing IMO.

I have no idea if they think this guys is it, but I don't think their approach is to find what you describe there with the 9th pick, which is why I say that you will be disappointed. They will take their gambles.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I like Davis and see him as one of the higher upside players who could be available at 9. He's a good shooter despite of his inefficiency for all the reasons explained in the OP. He was a one man show and had to do everything on both sides of the ball and he was also hurt, he could have sat and preserved his stock but he toughened up and chose to play for his team at the cost of a million scouts blaming him for his late season struggles. Coaches love players like that.

My only issue with him is that he couldn't get to the rim at all despite of his good ballhandling and footwork. He didn't have any spacing to work with but it's still a concern, he settled for too many contested midrange Js.

That said, he has an ideas skillset for the modern NBA - he could be a good roleplayer due to his intangibles, defense, effort, toughness, spot up shooting but he could also grow into a major scoring threat with his ability to create for himself. He has everything a team needs from a perimeter player to be able to stay on the floor during the playoffs in today's NBA.

I like Daniels too but there are concerns with his shot, he projects are a high lever roleplayer, whereas Davis has more upside. The problem is that if both end up as roleplayers, which is the most likely outcome, then I consider Daniels the better one. But higher upside is always tantalizing :lol I think it's similar with Duren vs Williams.

[rascal]

Prepare yourself for disappointment then. Not because of Davis, but bc I think the Spurs just look at youth, character and potential with their highest pick, not need.

I hate to bring him up but it just comes to mind... What do you think the Spurs were looking for with Primo? The only thing one knew for sure was that he could shoot and play off the ball and was so young that there was potential for more. They also valued his growth plates a lot for some reason, hoping that even physically he'd grow to be a more impressive specimen. It was all potential.

Spurs have been taking tickets with very young guys and not look at any specific need like you describe but some potential to be a star wing IMO.

I have no idea if they think this guys is it, but I don't think their approach is to find what you describe there with the 9th pick, which is why I say that you will be disappointed. They will take their gambles.

They may not gamble as much this year and go for a more sure player.
They may have been underwhelmed by Primo last year and decide not to reach and play it more safe this year.

They also have later picks where they will take more of the gamble on a player at those picks. Look for the safest pick at 9.

With their emphasis on defense I think Sochan is going to be the pick at 9.

[rascal]

I like Davis and see him as one of the higher upside players who could be available at 9. He's a good shooter despite of his inefficiency for all the reasons explained in the OP. He was a one man show and had to do everything on both sides of the ball and he was also hurt, he could have sat and preserved his stock but he toughened up and chose to play for his team at the cost of a million scouts blaming him for his late season struggles. Coaches love players like that.

My only issue with him is that he couldn't get to the rim at all despite of his good ballhandling and footwork. He didn't have any spacing to work with but it's still a concern, he settled for too many contested midrange Js.

That said, he has an ideas skillset for the modern NBA - he could be a good roleplayer due to his intangibles, defense, effort, toughness, spot up shooting but he could also grow into a major scoring threat with his ability to create for himself. He has everything a team needs from a perimeter player to be able to stay on the floor during the playoffs in today's NBA.

I like Daniels too but there are concerns with his shot, he projects are a high lever roleplayer, whereas Davis has more upside. The problem is that if both end up as roleplayers, which is the most likely outcome, then I consider Daniels the better one. But higher upside is always tantalizing :lol I think it's similar with Duren vs Williams.

The Spurs have to stop loading the team with similar skilled players lacking in the ability to take it to the rim and break down the defense.

They need more athleticism, they lag behind other teams in overall team athleticism.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Spurs have to stop loading the team with similar skilled players lacking in the ability to take it to the rim and break down the defense.

They need more athleticism, they lag behind other teams in overall team athleticism.

Athletic players who can break down the defense don't fall to 9th so it's a moot point. Mathurin and Davis might be the only ones with a tiny bit of a chance to grow into doing it from this draft.

[Uriel]

Sounds like a bigger George Hill IMO.

[Uriel]

It’s also worth noting that he has drawn comparisons to Manu Ginobili.

[PhantomDashCam]

I like Davis and see him as one of the higher upside players who could be available at 9. He's a good shooter despite of his inefficiency for all the reasons explained in the OP. He was a one man show and had to do everything on both sides of the ball and he was also hurt, he could have sat and preserved his stock but he toughened up and chose to play for his team at the cost of a million scouts blaming him for his late season struggles. Coaches love players like that.

My only issue with him is that he couldn't get to the rim at all despite of his good ballhandling and footwork. He didn't have any spacing to work with but it's still a concern, he settled for too many contested midrange Js.

That said, he has an ideas skillset for the modern NBA - he could be a good roleplayer due to his intangibles, defense, effort, toughness, spot up shooting but he could also grow into a major scoring threat with his ability to create for himself. He has everything a team needs from a perimeter player to be able to stay on the floor during the playoffs in today's NBA.

I like Daniels too but there are concerns with his shot, he projects are a high lever roleplayer, whereas Davis has more upside. The problem is that if both end up as roleplayers, which is the most likely outcome, then I consider Daniels the better one. But higher upside is always tantalizing :lol I think it's similar with Duren vs Williams.

I actually think Daniels has the higher upside. He's grown 3-4 inches in about 9 months, is arguably a better defender, (a more versatile one too...), and has already had a year going through virtually an NBA internship playing against grown men.

My thing with Davis, and this is purely subjective so make of it what you will; all of Davis' play seems predicated on effort. Nothing looks easy for him. The great scorers usually can make things look effortless at times. Johnny looks like he labors through every shot attempt, be it a drive or middy.

There seems to be some varying reports on Johnny Davis as a ball handler too, suggesting the self creation is an issue.

https://www.teaandrockets.com/post/scouting-johnny-davis-musings-on-self-creation


Even when he was able to get by his man, that first step doesn’t exactly stand out. It’s fine, if not spectacular. There are definitely a couple of clips where it looks faster here, so maybe it’s a question more of consistency than an overall inability, but the dribble also looks a little heavy to me, pushed out wide and just a little laboured. There’s also his decision making on drives, which is pretty poor. When he’s under pressure and not simply going north-south, he often runs into traffic, whether into the help defender at the nail or his own teammate.

When he’s in a straight up isolation situation, he’s rarely able to get by his man – either with speed or with craft. Even when he’s had a big man in front of him, the simple crossover move hasn’t gotten him anywhere. What he settles for instead, is trying to drive into his man and bump him back, then use a quick stepback with the separation. He shows good footwork, but he’s not really strong enough to move even a retreating defender further back, and he’s not a good enough pullup shooter for this to be reliable offense. Unfortunately we’re still not seeing much skill with the handle, which is why I still place a fairly hard ceiling on his on-ball projection.

He only averages 2.1 turnovers a game, but from what I have seen these are mostly live dribble turnovers, rather than errant passes. Using his handle to get separation is just not something he can reliably do right now (which does makes some of his shot making even more impressive).

Earlier I brought up James Bouknight as another guard who perhaps is a little ball dominant due to the ancillary pieces that occupied the UConn. team in 2021.

https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2021/7/28/22596215/2021-nba-draft-scouting-report-james-bouknight-analysis-video-breakdown-fit-atlanta-hawks-news-rumor

The thing is while Davis is unquestionably better Defensively, Bouknight looks to be the better overall Offensive player due to the variety of ways he can get to his shot.





Johnny Davis
James Bouknight


Profile
Profile (https://www.tankathon.com/players/johnny-davis)
Profile (https://www.tankathon.com/players/james-bouknight)


Mock (https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft)
#12 to OKC (https://www.tankathon.com/thunder)
2021


Big Board (https://www.tankathon.com/big_board)
#13



Position
SG
SG


Team
Wisconsin
UConn


Year
Sophomore
Sophomore


Height
6'5.75"
6'4.75"


Weight
196 lbs
190 lbs


Wingspan
6'8.5" WINGSPAN
6'8.25" WINGSPAN


Draft Age
20.31 yrs
20.75 yrs


Games
31
15


Minutes
34.2
31.7



Johnny Davis
James Bouknight



Stats Below are Per-36-Minutes


Points
20.8
21.3


Rebounds
8.7
6.4


Assists
2.2
2.0


Blocks
0.8
0.3


Steals
1.2
1.3


Turnovers
2.4
3.2


Fouls
2.1
2.1



Johnny Davis
James Bouknight


FG
7.1-16.7
7.4-16.6


FG%
.427
.447


3P
1.3-4.1
1.7-5.7


3P%
.306
.293


FT
5.3-6.7
4.8-6.1


FT%
.791
.778



Johnny Davis
James Bouknight


TS%
.523
.546


EFG%
.464
.498


3PA Rate
.246
.342


FTA Rate
.398
.370


PROJ NBA3
.351
.356



Johnny Davis
James Bouknight


USG%
32.5
31.6


PER
24.3
23.3


OWS/40
.094
.109


DWS/40
.075
.067


WS/40
.170
.177


ORTG
105.8
108.7


DRTG
95.8
98.4


OBPM
5.8
6.1


DBPM
3.0
2.5


BPM
8.9
8.6

[The Truth #6]

His pure athleticism is probably lacking. But after watching Luka Sammich and Walker, both with great athleticism but befuddled, lost and overwhelmed, I think I'm okay leaning into Davis for his intangibles. He wasn't efficient but I think Pop would be the coach to milk everything out of him. I think Dyson Daniels would work out fine, but I'm still leaning towards Davis. Superb measurements gets equated with upside, but with Davis I see his work ethic as upside in a different way. The vast majority of players are not this insanely competitive, so I'm okay rolling the dice with Davis.

[Mr. Body]

Really interesting to see how close he matches Bouknight. They seem like very different players, although I watched Davis much more than I did Bouknight. And there are glimmers of attitude problems with the latter, of course.

[Mr. Body]

His pure athleticism is probably lacking. But after watching Luka Sammich and Walker, both with great athleticism but befuddled, lost and overwhelmed, I think I'm okay leaning into Davis for his intangibles. He wasn't efficient but I think Pop would be the coach to milk everything out of him. I think Dyson Daniels would work out fine, but I'm still leaning towards Davis. Superb measurements gets equated with upside, but with Davis I see his work ethic as upside in a different way. The vast majority of players are not this insanely competitive, so I'm okay rolling the dice with Davis.

Athleticism is great, but not everything. Booker isn't the most athletic guy. Other shooting guards over the years haven't been the most athletic, like Ray Allen or Van Fleet, etc.

[The Truth #6]

Athleticism is great, but not everything. Booker isn't the most athletic guy. Other shooting guards over the years haven't been the most athletic, like Ray Allen or Van Fleet, etc.

Exactly. Hard to say how Davis pans out exactly but he looks to have at least some role in the NBA, which is better than Walker or Sammich. But beyond all that, I still think we need a two way player that can score 1-1 and in isolation; Davis isn't perfect but probably the best option at 9, though Jalen Williams sounds intriguing but that probably would be a gamble in itself. Picking at 9 is an interesting problem.

[duncan2150]

My issues with Davis... The ball stuck a lot in his hands, he was a ballstopper. When the ball moved to him, he often stared down the defense before making moves. He wasn't great from downtown. He's not an explosive athlete and required savviness to get open. He could have trouble with separation and finishing around the rim. Was somewhat tunnel visioned in attack. Was mid-range dominant.

What I like about Davis... A great competitor. Very good and willing defender, even when carrying a massive scoring load. Craftiness with the ball -- he clears defenders at speed without fouling them because of control and craft. Great rebounder at his size. Shot more free throws per than Zion Williamson. Character and competetiveness seem to be very high. Could be a relentless and active scorer.

I think the ball-sticking was a factor of his usage rate. Can he make snap decisions in moving the ball in a motion offense? With defenses not utterly keyed on him, can he hit at a better rate from deep?

I am fairly confident the issues surrounding the sticking and slowness to start moves were situational to how bad Wisky's offense otherwise was. I believe he can be effective if his usage scales down.

Right now, the Spurs only have two slashers -- Dejounte, Walker, and I think Walker is gone. Right now, the Spurs don't have a single player who can be counted on to score when needed. Davis is used to that role.

He is not my first pick at #9 right now, but he's definitely on my short list.

Imo a lot of his flaws are totally due to playing in a really poor Wisconsin team.

He's in my top 4 for this pick and he's the only one who's good on offense and defense imo.

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1527655863187537923

[rjv]

not the sexiest pick but considering that the spurs have had a few high ceiling misses lately perhaps a high floor pick wouldn't be the worst thing to opt for.

[KobesAchilles]

Well we do need a back up PF behind KJ so I can see us drafting him :lol

I actually like that he takes stupid shots. I see that as a positive rather than a negative. As long as it isn't Westbrook level of course. Also idgaf about my SG assist to turnover ratio. If he's a 3 level scorer and a defensive player then I'm not going to nitpick about his play making. But drafting a 6 ft 4 guard isn't really a need. Unless Vassell is officially going to be our starting SF. I think another guard keeps KJ at the 4 and keeps us way too small so I prefer not to do that.

[Mr. Body]

Imo a lot of his flaws are totally due to playing in a really poor Wisconsin team.

He's in my top 4 for this pick and he's the only one who's good on offense and defense imo.

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1527655863187537923

He's definitely enticing. I also have a top 4 for that pick. As far as SGs, I currently have Mathurin above Davis almost purely because he's so tantalyzing with his athleticism and fire, but might be a cocky bastard and his defense isn't as good.

[duncan2150]

He's definitely enticing. I also have a top 4 for that pick. As far as SGs, I currently have Mathurin above Davis almost purely because he's so tantalyzing with his athleticism and fire, but might be a cocky bastard and his defense isn't as good.

Yes i understand, i have him over Mathurin because the late one could be a good defender but lacks some fundamentals for the moment. Both can score with Mathurin being a threat behind the arc, Davis is more mid range but i'm confident on his threes.

[BatManu20]

Sounds like a bigger George Hill IMO.

His game is nothing like George Hill’s :lol

[rascal]

Athletic players who can break down the defense don't fall to 9th so it's a moot point. Mathurin and Davis might be the only ones with a tiny bit of a chance to grow into doing it from this draft.

Mathurin would be nice.

[Uriel]

His game is nothing like George Hill’s :lol
Well, I defer to your expertise then. I never once watched Wisconsin this season.

[The Truth #6]

Don't get me wrong, I don't love the mid-range game at the expense of shooting threes, and it's hard to say if the Spurs will push him to shoot more threes. But I believe he's solid at the corner three percentage wise, so the hope is that since he isn't afraid to shoot in general, that he will transition as needed to fit the modern NBA game. That interview says he models his game after Devin Booker, so there could be worse comparisons, I suppose.

[BatManu20]

He’ll improve from with 3 time, experience, and more space, as most young players do. Especially with his work ethic. He may never be a sniper, but he’ll get up to league average at least imo. Has solid form on his jump shot. Not worried about that aspect of his game at all. His real questions are what his ceiling is.

[Dejounte]

I hear a lot of times that this guy is a good defender. In the NBA though? Guards his size who are elite defenders are usually stocky (Jrue, Smart). I think his ceiling on defense is above average at best.

[John B]

Sounds like a bigger George Hill IMO.

Nothing like GH. But yup, Pop might love this kid from day 1. The kid is a winner and will do everything to win, rebound, block, attack the rim, shoot. He would not be gun shy as the #1 option of Wisconsin. Reminds me a bit of DJ, cockiness for lack of better term, desire to get better, winning attitude.

Does he check the immediate need of size at PF? Nope. But you take him if he’s available and worry about drafting an Eason at 15.

[Chinook]

The thing is it's fine if you want to draft a two-guard IF you trade some of the ones you have for value. Otherwise, you'll see Vassell playing PF while folks pretend it's just a temporary thing forced upon the team until they can find some front-court talent. Clear that glut and use that value to attack the other positions instead of just scratching your head and doing the same process over and over. It's an open question if the Spurs are even good at developing SGs anyway. I'd say it's the weakest position of the Pop era.

[Mr. Body]

The thing is it's fine if you want to draft a two-guard IF you trade some of the ones you have for value. Otherwise, you'll see Vassell playing PF while folks pretend it's just a temporary thing forced upon the team until they can find some front-court talent. Clear that glut and use that value to attack the other positions instead of just scratching your head and doing the same process over and over. It's an open question if the Spurs are even good at developing SGs anyway. I'd say it's the weakest position of the Pop era.

There's not a single player on the roster who can get his own shot other than Murray and he's not great at it. A guy who can hunt shots and create in the end game is a major need.

[rascal]

The Spurs have to draft the BPA at 9 and then work the roster around it. It's their job to fit the pieces together after the pick but can't pass on the best talent on the board when they are on the clock. A draft day trade can always be a possibility to work the roster concerns out. There will be draft day trades and the Spurs can't sit out of being assertive to improve the roster with three first round pick assets.

They don't have any untradeable player on the roster.

[rascal]

There's not a single player on the roster who can get his own shot other than Murray and he's not great at it. A guy who can hunt shots and create in the end game is a major need.

Yeah, those are the type of players needed to pull out the hard fought playoff games.

[Chinook]

There's not a single player on the roster who can get his own shot other than Murray and he's not great at it. A guy who can hunt shots and create in the end game is a major need.

It is, and I think the team needs to hunt those guys in free agency. But it's clear the Spurs want to try to train guys to develop into aggressive combo-guards instead of just paying for them. In my opinion they've missed out on decent talent both in the draft and in free agency due to this. The team needs an offensive hub, but they need to not collect kipple at their wing positions in an effort to turn crap into gold. Even Murray's more of a feel-good story than a success in that endeavor

[duncan2150]

Don't get me wrong, I don't love the mid-range game at the expense of shooting threes, and it's hard to say if the Spurs will push him to shoot more threes. But I believe he's solid at the corner three percentage wise, so the hope is that since he isn't afraid to shoot in general, that he will transition as needed to fit the modern NBA game. That interview says he models his game after Devin Booker, so there could be worse comparisons, I suppose.

You're right he was solid in the corners converting nearly 44% ( 7 of 16). He can shoots the three without a doubt.


I hear a lot of times that this guy is a good defender. In the NBA though? Guards his size who are elite defenders are usually stocky (Jrue, Smart). I think his ceiling on defense is above average at best.

the measurements are good, i think he's solid physically.

[The Truth #6]

It is, and I think the team needs to hunt those guys in free agency. But it's clear the Spurs want to try to train guys to develop into aggressive combo-guards instead of just paying for them. In my opinion they've missed out on decent talent both in the draft and in free agency due to this. The team needs an offensive hub, but they need to not collect kipple at their wing positions in an effort to turn crap into gold. Even Murray's more of a feel-good story than a success in that endeavor

So which of those type of players did they neglect to get in free agency?

[Chinook]

So which of those type of players did they neglect to get in free agency?

Free agency was actually full of guards. They chose to do the DeRozan trade and sign complimentary players instead. Even in terms of complimentary players, they signed guys to help the guards grow rather than elite finishers to take advantage of competent guard play.

[Dejounte]

You're right he was solid in the corners converting nearly 44% ( 7 of 16). He can shoots the three without a doubt.



the measurements are good, i think he's solid physically.

Im not talking measurements. Im talking about frame. There are very little, maybe none, guards that are that skinny and elite at defense.

[CGD]

I really want to like this guy. He’s got a lot of heart, leadership potential, and confidence. Don’t love the measurements, and would be demoralized at some level of the spurs choose yet another guard. But also won’t hate it.

[duncan2150]

Im not talking measurements. Im talking about frame. There are very little, maybe none, guards that are that skinny and elite at defense.

Yes and i don't think he's that skinny maybe to guard some SF's but he can bulk up. He's not like a McGowens or someone like that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIr9_B76mIc
Look from 4'47 to 7'38 and tell me what you see.

[John B]

Yes and i don't think he's that skinny maybe to guard some SF's but he can bulk up. He's not like a McGowens or someone like that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIr9_B76mIc
Look from 4'47 to 7'38 and tell me what you see.

The kid is 20. He’s still gonna bulk up 20 more lbs of muscle :lol.

I mean I like the tenacity of this kid, his willingness to do everything on the court. He’s a go-to scorer, not shy to step up and will not defer I think. Again I don’t know how PATFO would play it. Straight up I’d prefer Keegan if available at #9. I like Sochan also as a defender. I think they have many options. But I wouldn’t mind Davis at all maybe as Walker’s replacement and bring him to close like Manu did? Many options here :lol

[dbestpro]

Rather have a 6-9 player who still needs to develop their three than a 6-5 player who can't hit the three either.

[Mr. Body]

Im not talking measurements. Im talking about frame. There are very little, maybe none, guards that are that skinny and elite at defense.

Other than, like, Dejounte Murray and Patrick Beverly and many others?

[Dejounte]

Other than, like, Dejounte Murray and Patrick Beverly and many others?

I like how you wrote “many others” as if you actually had plenty more examples.

Beverley was a one-year wonder. And he gets his reputation from his hustle, not actually good defense.

Murray has not made it to elite yet as evidenced by him not making the Defensive team.

[Mr. Body]

I like how you wrote “many others” as if you actually had plenty more examples.

Beverley was a one-year wonder. And he gets his reputation from his hustle, not actually good defense.

Murray has not made it to elite yet as evidenced by him not making the Defensive team.

Like how you named two stocky guards. This is stupid. There are a lot of good thin defenders. It's fucking basketball.

[Dejounte]

Like how you named two stocky guards. This is stupid. There are a lot of good thin defenders. It's fucking basketball.

Did I say there aren’t any good thin defenders? I said JD’s ceiling was above average on that end. The fuck is your problem?

[Mr. Body]

Did I say there aren’t any good thin defenders? I said JD’s ceiling was above average on that end. The fuck is your problem?

This is literally what you said:

"There are very little, maybe none, guards that are that skinny and elite at defense."

You seemed to forget there's one on our team.

[Chinook]

I think Spurs fans should accept that no, Murray is not an exception to that rule. He's not and never beena truly great defensive guard. Instead he's a above-average defender who's elite in some areas and below-average in others. He can be part of a very good defense, but he cannot be its foundation. He didn't get snubbed for All-Defense this year, and he probably should not have been on it in 2018.

[rankingtear]

He has a SF standing reach. Good frame and still skinny that adding 5 pounds is doable first 2 year's in the league. He would give you good defense no question and his c&s and late clock creation would keep him on the floor on offense.

[mo7888]

This is literally what you said:

"There are very little, maybe none, guards that are that skinny and elite at defense."

You seemed to forget there's one on our team.

I think you two are arguing over the definition of 'elite' defender vs a good defender. My 2 cents is that I don't think being thin has anything to do with how good of a defender a wing can be. I don't think the Spurs have any elite defenders either. DJ, Devin, and Jak are all pretty high level defenders within a team concept but, I don't see any of them as elite... I also don't see any true elite defenders in this draft in the top 20 (maybe a one dimensional guy later on)... Sochan I think will be good on that end but I see him as more of a pest on the defensive end than elite...I think Davis will be solid on that end but he's not elite either... So I'm not looking for elite in the top 20...I'm looking for good and willing defenders because thats the best the top 20 has to offer on that side of the court...

[PhantomDashCam]

According to HoopsHype’s u/d workout tracker, Johnny D has had a workout with the Spurs.
Very sneaky if true…

[Uriel]

According to HoopsHype’s u/d workout tracker, Johnny D has had a workout with the Spurs.
Very sneaky if true…
Wouldn't be surprised if he's the pick, honestly, especially since he's drawn comparisons to Manu Ginobili.

[PhantomDashCam]

Wouldn't be surprised if he's the pick, honestly, especially since he's drawn comparisons to Manu Ginobili.

I don’t like the Manu comparison tbh. I do agree though that I believe he’s on the shortlist.

Johnny looks like he has that competitive drive, toughness of somebody like perhaps Manu but I don’t like some of the reads and decisions he makes with the ball.
Is it the team/personnel he played with? Perhaps but ball dominant SG w/o an elite Offensive skill (shooting, self creation, athleticism) scare the hell out of me.

[duncan2150]

According to HoopsHype’s u/d workout tracker, Johnny D has had a workout with the Spurs.
Very sneaky if true…

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1532553622504054791

So maybe a second one ?

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1532553622504054791

So maybe a second one ?

Mmmm maybe. Def. something to keep an eye on.

[Mr. Body]

The Pacers have a really good fan site for breaking down draft candidates. Here's the one for Davis. You'll see links for Eason and Mathurin, too.

https://www.indycornrows.com/2022/6/1/23145787/2022-nba-draft-analysis-johnny-davis

[CGD]

The Pacers have a really good fan site for breaking down draft candidates. Here's the one for Davis. You'll see links for Eason and Mathurin, too.

https://www.indycornrows.com/2022/6/1/23145787/2022-nba-draft-analysis-johnny-davis

Excellent find.

Man, now I’m back on the Davis bandwagon lol!

[Mr. Body]

Excellent find.

Man, now I’m back on the Davis bandwagon lol!

Same. He has a lot of potential straight out of the box. He was inefficient, took time to start moves in college, and could have tunnel vision, but that was his role on a bad offensive team in UW. He still has significant scoring skills and, as the link runs down, he has great athleticism in a lateral, in-space way. Very quick in movement changes. Without having to carry an entire offense, he could be terrific.

He was also a great defender in college who busted his ass, and a very good rebounder. If we keep having to go undersized at the PF, then we could do worse with the PG and SG being strong rebounders. Their defense together could be excellent.

[The Truth #6]

Same. He has a lot of potential straight out of the box. He was inefficient, took time to start moves in college, and could have tunnel vision, but that was his role on a bad offensive team in UW. He still has significant scoring skills and, as the link runs down, he has great athleticism in a lateral, in-space way. Very quick in movement changes.

He's also a potentially great defender who busts his ass, and a very good rebounder. If we keep having to go undersized at the PF, then we could do worse with the PG and SG being strong rebounders. Their defense together could be excellent.

He could be the best point of attack defender in his class, or up there with Dyson Daniels. He slithers around screens adeptly, and that may be his greatest skill that should carry over day one. His defense on Jaden Ivey was impressive. That's not the reason to draft him at 9, but it's good to know that he at least shouldn't suck at defense if the Spurs pursue him.

[CGD]

He could be the best point of attack defender in his class, or up there with Dyson Daniels. He slithers around screens adeptly, and that may be his greatest skill that should carry over day one. His defense on Jaden Ivey was impressive. That's not the reason to draft him at 9, but it's good to know that he at least shouldn't suck at defense if the Spurs pursue him.

If he starts slipping, I wouldn’t be sad if the outcome of our draft is:
- Spurs draft Duren at 9;
- Spurs trade Jak/25 to CHA for 13, take Davis;
- Liddell at 20 (assuming Eason is gone)
- Porcida at 38

[exstatic]

He could be the best point of attack defender in his class, or up there with Dyson Daniels. He slithers around screens adeptly, and that may be his greatest skill that should carry over day one. His defense on Jaden Ivey was impressive. That's not the reason to draft him at 9, but it's good to know that he at least shouldn't suck at defense if the Spurs pursue him.

Yeah, except the NBA outlawed that in 2015. There are only 3 options on a screen now: follow, go under, or switch. Any attempt to get between the ball handler and the screener is an automatic foul call. Most teams switch, which has led to the near extinction of the traditional big.

[Chinook]

If he starts slipping, I wouldn’t be sad if the outcome of our draft is:
- Spurs draft Duren at 9;
- Spurs trade Jak/25 to CHA for 13, take Davis;
- Liddell at 20 (assuming Eason is gone)
- Porcida at 38

If I knew Davis was going to fall, I'd totally trade down with Charlotte, 9 and 25 for 13 and 15 and take Davis and Eason and hopefully snag a center like Williams at 20 and maybe a guard like Williams at 38.

Murray, Jones, Williams
Vassell, Richardson, Davis
Johnson, Primo, Wieskamp
McDermott, Eason, KBD
Poeltl, Collins, Williams


That's a third unit that could eventually get some surprise wins on rest days.

[CGD]

If I knew Davis was going to fall, I'd totally trade down with Charlotte, 9 and 25 for 13 and 15 and take Davis and Eason and hopefully snag a center like Williams at 20 and maybe a guard like Williams at 38.

Murray, Jones, Williams
Vassell, Richardson, Davis
Johnson, Primo, Wieskamp
McDermott, Eason, KBD
Poeltl, Collins, Williams


That's a third unit that could eventually get some surprise wins on rest days.

That would be awesome too.

I would love to be a fly on the wall in these draft rooms, especially about teeing up potential trade scenarios based on real time selection intel. You have to think they’d have all sorts of scenarios like these well mapped out ahead of time.

[Chinook]

That would be awesome too.

I would love to be a fly on the wall in these draft rooms, especially about teeing up potential trade scenarios based on real time selection intel. You have to think they’d have all sorts of scenarios like these well mapped out ahead of time.

For sure, they've already called teams and taken calls on their picks. When draft night rolls around, it's more about looking through the rolodex of hypothetical offers to see if any meet the situation you're in then calling up the partner and asking if the deal is on rather than calling and trying to create something during the heat of the moment.

[TD 21]

If he starts slipping, I wouldn’t be sad if the outcome of our draft is:
- Spurs draft Duren at 9;
- Spurs trade Jak/25 to CHA for 13, take Davis;
- Liddell at 20 (assuming Eason is gone)
- Porcida at 38

Davis probably goes 10-11, but either way that'd be selling way too low on Poeltl.

The Spurs rightly supposedly wanted a 1st in addition to the Hornets offer of Washington Jr. and Jones. In other words, they're seeking a rotation player, prospect, pick package.

Duren is not the Spurs type of C (athletic over skill based) and Liddell isn't their type of PF (4.5 as opposed to 3.5.).

[PhantomDashCam]

1532759595239624704


https://youtu.be/1hjxGdBTReA

[CGD]

Davis probably goes 10-11, but either way that'd be selling way too low on Poeltl.

The Spurs rightly supposedly wanted a 1st in addition to the Hornets offer of Washington Jr. and Jones. In other words, they're seeking a rotation player, prospect, pick package.

Duren is not the Spurs type of C (athletic over skill based) and Liddell isn't their type of PF (4.5 as opposed to 3.5.).

I think it’s fair value on Jak in my view:

1. Clearly the spurs ask was too much

2. Leverage has declined heading into last year of his deal as opposed Feb deadline

3. Can’t make too much of Jak being pick 9 a long time ago bc of how league values centers now.

[exstatic]

I think it’s fair value on Jak in my view:

1. Clearly the spurs ask was too much

2. Leverage has declined heading into last year of his deal as opposed Feb deadline

3. Can’t make too much of Jak being pick 9 a long time ago bc of how league values centers now.

I’d argue point 2. After they passed on our trade, Charlotte dropped in the standings, all the way to 10, and were bounced in the play in. Passing on Poeltl, and going cheap by signing Trezz Harrell wrecked their season. They literally had pick 15 drop in their laps when NO played into the playoffs. It’s house money for them,and another young player isn’t going to help them.

You act like Jak is shit, but there were three teams interested at the deadline: CHA CHI TOR. That’s leverage. None of them did well after passing on Jak. I’d add GSW as a dark horse.

[offset formation]

I think Spurs fans should accept that no, Murray is not an exception to that rule. He's not and never beena truly great defensive guard. Instead he's a above-average defender who's elite in some areas and below-average in others. He can be part of a very good defense, but he cannot be its foundation. He didn't get snubbed for All-Defense this year, and he probably should not have been on it in 2018.

His steals make him appear to be a better defender than he has actually demonstrated. He got absolutely torched on several occasions this year, by a multitude of different guards. He gambles too much and goes for pump fakes too often, and gets beat laterally at a really uncomfortable rate.

Beverly did a much, much, much better job defending Ja than Murray ever has, for example. As did Gary Payton Jr.

[Chinook]

His steals make him appear to be a better defender than he has actually demonstrated. He got absolutely torched on several occasions this year, by a multitude of different guards. He gambles too much and goes for pump fakes too often, and gets beat laterally at a really uncomfortable rate.

Beverly did a much, much, much better job defending Ja than Murray ever has, for example. As did Gary Payton Jr.

Yep. It's clear to me that Murray is someone they have to protect/hide by bringing a guard who can defend PGs. I think Murray's best defensive position is probably smaller SFs, which is basically like Vassell. The issue is that Johnson also needs to be hidden, and if both are going to start, then Vassell might not be a fit for the starting lineup. They'll need Murray/PG Defender/Johnson/Defensive combo-forward/Poeltl. I sort of think that's impractical, so I think the Spurs' D is going to suffer for years to come.

[CGD]

I’d argue point 2. After they passed on our trade, Charlotte dropped in the standings, all the way to 10, and were bounced in the play in. Passing on Poeltl, and going cheap by signing Trezz Harrell wrecked their season. They literally had pick 15 drop in their laps when NO played into the playoffs. It’s house money for them,and another young player isn’t going to help them.

You act like Jak is shit, but there were three teams interested at the deadline: CHA CHI TOR. That’s leverage. None of them did well after passing on Jak. I’d add GSW as a dark horse.

What odds do you give Jak of signing long term in CHA as opposed to testing free agency in a year?

I think Jak is solid. No debate there. Other fundamentals changed after the trade deadline, however, which is why in my view CHA would need Spurs to attach 25 and take back ~5M next year from one of their turd contracts (Plumlee or Orbe). Insurance for Jak walking for nothing in a year.

[mo7888]

What odds do you give Jak of signing long term in CHA as opposed to testing free agency in a year?

I think Jak is solid. No debate there. Other fundamentals changed after the trade deadline, however, which is why in my view CHA would need Spurs to attach 25 and take back ~5M next year from one of their turd contracts (Plumlee or Orbe). Insurance for Jak walking for nothing in a year.

I don't think we'd need to add 25...but I agree we'd have to take back a contract..

[John B]

Davis would likely get picked at 10 by Wiz, and would be another 7 page Haliburton thread :lol

[rascal]

Will go to the Knicks.

[BackHome]

Yep. It's clear to me that Murray is someone they have to protect/hide by bringing a guard who can defend PGs. I think Murray's best defensive position is probably smaller SFs, which is basically like Vassell. The issue is that Johnson also needs to be hidden, and if both are going to start, then Vassell might not be a fit for the starting lineup. They'll need Murray/PG Defender/Johnson/Defensive combo-forward/Poeltl. I sort of think that's impractical, so I think the Spurs' D is going to suffer for years to come.

Yeah, that is why I wanted Ivey cause he would be able to guard PG and still be our Starting SG/PG for years to come. Will have the same issue with Primo as I don't think he has the foot speed to guard PG or even fast SG. So we have poor defense, poor rebounding, and poor 3 point shooting - hopefully will get some players that can shore up these wholes in our team

As far as Davis I think he has been a top 7 players for the whole season that people get tired of talking about and are used to it so when a shinny new player does something nice they get attracted to that new player. But have to give the kid credit he gives 100% on offense and 100% on defense which is rare to see and he played heavy minutes the whole season so I wouldn't hate the pick but we would definitely have to shuffle some of our players - Plus he has the dog in him he don't like to loose

[John B]

Yeah, that is why I wanted Ivey cause he would be able to guard PG and still be our Starting SG/PG for years to come. Will have the same issue with Primo as I don't think he has the foot speed to guard PG or even fast SG. So we have poor defense, poor rebounding, and poor 3 point shooting - hopefully will get some players that can shore up these wholes in our team

As far as Davis I think he has been a top 7 players for the whole season that people get tired of talking about and are used to it so when a shinny new player does something nice they get attracted to that new player. But have to give the kid credit he gives 100% on offense and 100% on defense which is rare to see and he played heavy minutes the whole season so I wouldn't hate the pick but we would definitely have to shuffle some of our players - Plus he has the dog in him he don't like to looseThat’s what it takes to get to the next level. The big 3 have it. The Spurs were lucky the planets aligned to have all 3 at the same time plus a great mind and no nonesense guy as coach, the will to win against adversities. I hate to say “Mamba” mentality but that’s it. Often times skills alone are not enough, cause all NBA players have that. But not all have that “drive” to win it all. Kobe compliments Manu both giving it all in the court, every night. Davis has that. I wouldn’t mind if Spurs get Davis at 9, then find a way to plug that 4 with a defensive big is secondary.

[pad300]

... I hate to say “Mamba” mentality but that’s it. Often times skills alone are not enough, cause all NBA players have that. But not all have that “drive” to win it all. Kobe compliments Manu both giving it all in the court, every night. ...

Please cease and desist with this bullshit. Kobe is the guy who quit on his team in a game 7 in the playoffs. Who forced the break up of title winning combo. Who repeatedly tried to force trades to a "better" situation... Mamba mentality my ass.

[TD 21]

I think it’s fair value on Jak in my view:

1. Clearly the spurs ask was too much

2. Leverage has declined heading into last year of his deal as opposed Feb deadline

3. Can’t make too much of Jak being pick 9 a long time ago bc of how league values centers now.

The point is, Washington Jr. and Jones alone are worth more than moving up 12 spots, particularly when the Spurs already have picks 9, 20, 25 and 38.

Stagnated is probably more like it.

Him being a former 9th pick is irrelevant. Him being a quality starting C on a value (albeit expiring) contract is.

[BackHome]

If I am a team trying to get a ring I am trading and getting a Spurs player it seems like every Spur player that has gone to a team that team has done A Lot better after trade.

[John B]

Please cease and desist with this bullshit. Kobe is the guy who quit on his team in a game 7 in the playoffs. Who forced the break up of title winning combo. Who repeatedly tried to force trades to a "better" situation... Mamba mentality my ass.

Let’s just agree on the “Manu” mentality then. :lol Since Davis has been compared to Manu, giving 100% both sides of the floor every single night. That competitiveness is infectious to other teammates, and what it normally takes a team to the next level. Again if there’s a chance to get an Eason in the 13-15 range, then I would get a go-to scorer like Davis at 9, a point-of-attack defensive that Spurs need imo.

[CGD]

Let’s just agree on the “Manu” mentality then. :lol Since Davis has been compared to Manu, giving 100% both sides of the floor every single night. That competitiveness is infectious to other teammates, and what it normally takes a team to the next level. Again if there’s a chance to get an Eason in the 13-15 range, then I would get a go-to scorer like Davis at 9, a point-of-attack defensive that Spurs need imo.

I love this guy, i really do precisely because of what he has between the ears.

If the Spurs see the next iteration of the team built around Primo and Vassell (i think they do), then this guy would be the perfect compliment over the next 2-3 time horizon. Primo (aka D. White reloaded) assumes facilitator functions, Vassell tops out at Bridges lite on the wing, and Jonny becomes the bucket getter. That also stands to be a good defensive team.

[Ariel]

If the Spurs see the next iteration of the team built around Primo and Vassell (i think they do), then this guy would be the perfect compliment over the next 2-3 time horizon. Primo (aka D. White reloaded) assumes facilitator functions, Vassell tops out at Bridges lite on the wing, and Jonny becomes the bucket getter.
I like Johnny, but if your whole vision for the future is predicated on a role player (Vassell) and 2 unknowns with no factual indication they'll be much more than that, you're taking a HUGE leap of faith... you can aim at the top and land in the middle, but if you aim at the middle from the start, you already screwed up.

[John B]

https://youtu.be/AisK3xwVGtQ

It would be hard for Pop not to love this kid. His elite on-man defense, 50/50 and passing lane. The guy patterned his mid-range on Demar :lol. I think his assist/TO ratio will be better with NBA players to pass to, the luxury of having another facilitator with Murray, and a willing go-to scorer. The defensive backcourt of Murray/Davis will be insane. I like Sochan, but knowing the Spurs could potentially get Davis and Eason if they play it right is crazy.

[Degoat]

This guy is going to be so good! I really hope the spurs grab him with the 9th pick if he’s available.

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/AisK3xwVGtQ

It would be hard for Pop not to love this kid. His elite on-man defense, 50/50 and passing lane. The guy patterned his mid-range on Demar :lol. I think his assist/TO ratio will be better with NBA players to pass to, the luxury of having another facilitator with Murray, and a willing go-to scorer. The defensive backcourt of Murray/Davis will be insane. I like Sochan, but knowing the Spurs could potentially get Davis and Eason if they play it right is crazy.

Davis is my guy at this point. He talks basketball at a high level and he's defense first. The guy he's talking to is going to Portland's FO -- I wonder if he's going to push him to pair next to Lillard.

Taking Davis, clearly the Spurs continue to have PF issues. Hopefully they can solve them somehow later in the draft or elsewhere.

[duncan2150]

I really like him too, he's THE guard if we take one imo.

More than that, i think he's the only player who combines good defense and offense at the 9 spot.

Imo selecting Davis means Keldon would play PF, wich is not ideal like Mr.body said but spurs can solve that by taking a real PF with the picks or FA.

[Degoat]

Spurs are okay drafting a guard at 9 I think, they can find a 4 later in the draft. Fingers crossed Eason, Liddell, or Dieng falls to 20 and if not Jovic, KBrown, Jake Laravia, and Baldwin would for be available Imo

[John B]

His defense on Ivey could really be the key on Spurs “weakness” against explosive guards, which has been Spurs achilles heel also. Davis is really good at matching physicality and positioning himself on a sprinting Ivey on that example. And this modern guard dominated NBA, a really good defense on the point-of-attack is crucial imo

[RC_Drunkford]

I like Davis next to Murray tbh, especially if he becomes a knock down 3-point shooter. He can check PGs with Avery Bradley type defense, so the defensive fit would be great. I can also see him getting a lot of offball action to get open, which is why I compared him to Klay. The only issue then is that Keldon would probably be the odd man out in the future, since we need a PF and I'd rather play Vassell at SF. But that'll still take some years

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1533470115177582592

[John B]

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1533470115177582592

And Spurs don’t really have someone who draws double/triple team and passing to an open man.

[TD 21]

getting Klay Thompson vibes from him. Seems like a good fit next to DJ, if we didn't have 13 shooting guards on the roster already. Hard pass for me

:lmao One of the worst comps ever.

"We" have 4 SG options: Vassell, more of a wing; Richardson, not long for them; Primo, a project; Langford, not long for them.

The notion of one of the least talented teams in the league passing up perceived best player available because of that motley crew is absurd.

There's a clear need for someone not named Murray who can create for themselves and others.

[Ariel]

Spurs are okay drafting a guard at 9 I think, they can find a 4 later in the draft. Fingers crossed Eason, Liddell, or Dieng falls to 20 and if not Jovic, KBrown, Jake Laravia, and Baldwin would for be available Imo
That's a hugely disparate bunch... Dieng, Jovic and Baldwin are projects years away, Kendall Brown is a 3 who can't shoot, Liddell is an undersized 4/5. I'm not saying I don't like them, because I do, but none of them are credible short term solutions to our woes. Sochan, Eason and Laravia could be.

[RC_Drunkford]

:lmao One of the worst comps ever.

"We" have 4 SG options: Vassell, more of a wing; Richardson, not long for them; Primo, a project; Langford, not long for them.

The notion of one of the least talented teams in the league passing up perceived best player available because of that motley crew is absurd.

There's a clear need for someone not named Murray who can create for themselves and others.

you clearly didn‘t read my last post. Nice try

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1533478030097653761

[John B]

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1533478030097653761

He has drawn comparison to none other than Manu Gi-no-bi-li. I really like this guy, IF only Spurs can secure an Eason at 13-15 to address Spurs immediate needs. Because a defense of Murray, Davis, Vassell, Eason would be insane. Now to find the best complimentary center at 20 or 25 or even from FA.

[BatManu20]

Starting to feel like Davis is taking Griffin’s spot in the top-8.

[CGD]

Starting to feel like Davis is taking Griffin’s spot in the top-8.

Hasnt he been out of the Top 8 for some time?

[rjv]

Hasnt he been out of the Top 8 for some time?

yeah, griffin's luster fell of a while back (as far as mocks go).

[Mr. Body]

I'm seeing Griffin still in the top 12 in many mocks, even top 10. But the spread is widening with other mocks starting to drop him out of the lottery. Hard to tell. My gut says the first group is being slow to recognize what's happening.

[duncan2150]

I think so

Impossible to know the order after that top 3-4. Imo if Griffin is in shape in those workouts he'll go top 10. depends also on the medicals.

[Mr. Body]

I think so

Impossible to know the order after that top 3-4. Imo if Griffin is in shape in those workouts he'll go top 10. depends also on the medicals.

I don't think his shape has to do with it. It's that people are realizing what an atrocious defender he is.

[duncan2150]

I don't think his shape has to do with it. It's that people are realizing what an atrocious defender he is.

for me, the bad shape is the reason why he was bad on D.

[drpill]

I do wonder with Griffin how much of his struggles have to do with the knee injury, and how much he might improve (if at all) given time to fully recover. All of his downsides look like they could be attributable to having less confidence in his knees (lateral movement, lack of explosiveness, etc). He has a weird looking stance when he shoots threes as well, but obviously he was highly effective there. I think he will fall, and barring further injuries (which are certainly a possibility), some team might get a steal. Obviously a high risk/reward guy that I wouldn't want at 9 since there are less risky options on the board that also have a good amount of upside.

On topic, this thread has been selling me on Davis... If Mathurin and Daniels are gone I wouldn't be disappointed at all with him as a Spur. Another guard is not ideal but he seems like a very solid long-term piece with a high floor.

[The Truth #6]

for me, the bad shape is the reason why he was bad on D.

I thought it was injuries. Either way, hopefully we don't get him.

[Mr. Body]

No, Griffin was a terrible defender even without any injuries. He was often out of place off the ball, no sense of team defense, no sense of what to do with himself. Just poor all around.

[TD 21]

If as expected Mathurin and Daniels are gone by 9 and he's available, I'd now guess he's the favorite (was thinking Dieng, but I'm skeptical they'd have the audacity to go with projects/reaches in back to back lotteries).

In many ways he seems a Spur and fits the outline of someone who could end up a primary option.

[The Truth #6]

I still don't see the Spurs picking Davis even though given the options he's probably one of our better prospects. For some reason, the fact that he's in a Taco Bell commercial makes me think they won't pick him because it suggests he needs to get over himself, and possibly, because after a few pinot noirs, Pop is more of a Las Palapas guy, or whatever.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://youtu.be/AisK3xwVGtQ

It would be hard for Pop not to love this kid. His elite on-man defense, 50/50 and passing lane. The guy patterned his mid-range on Demar :lol. I think his assist/TO ratio will be better with NBA players to pass to, the luxury of having another facilitator with Murray, and a willing go-to scorer. The defensive backcourt of Murray/Davis will be insane. I like Sochan, but knowing the Spurs could potentially get Davis and Eason if they play it right is crazy.

I finally got around to watching this. Thanks for sharing.

While I have doubts about what Offensive role/usage Johnny has at the next level, there is no doubting the kids' heart and determination.

I even liked how honest and open he was about his performance after the Wizard workout. (Posted earlier in the thread).

[Degoat]

I still don't see the Spurs picking Davis even though given the options he's probably one of our better prospects. For some reason, the fact that he's in a Taco Bell commercial makes me think they won't pick him because it suggests he needs to get over himself, and possibly, because after a few pinot noirs, Pop is more of a Las Palapas guy, or whatever.

I envision Pop as a Taco Cabana guy myself lol Davis is gonna be really good but I just have a hunch the spurs are going to be targeting size and rebounding in this draft

[CGD]

No, Griffin was a terrible defender even without any injuries. He was often out of place off the ball, no sense of team defense, no sense of what to do with himself. Just poor all around.

I was high in him early but have soured precisely bc of the defense on further review.

I’m down to being between Davis and Duren at 9. Davis is a leader of men, and just smart. Duren is just too tantalizing physically at C to ignore if he’s there at 9.

I also hope someone takes mathurin before us. Just get Lonnie 2.0 vibes from him.

[rjv]

came across these comments from mcgrady and the accompanying interview with davis:

https://sports.yahoo.com/tracy-mcgrady-sees-two-future-193200483.html

[Mr. Body]

Johnny Davis is like the opposite Tari Eason. He understands the game, understands what's happening on the court, and can talk about it at a high level.

[John B]

Johnny Davis is like the opposite Tari Eason. He understands the game, understands what's happening on the court, and can talk about it at a high level.

You know this kid’s an alpha. As good as Derrick was, he deferred a lot of times. Davis will not defer and will get his baskets. I don’t know how Murray would be like with another dog in the house :lol

Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy. He patterned his mid-range from Demar

[T Park]

Davis feels like Demar DeRozan but has the ability and want to go shoot the three, also way better defender. Imo, should be the pick.

[Rito3d30]

You know this kid’s an alpha. As good as Derrick was, he deferred a lot of times. Davis will not defer and will get his baskets. I don’t know how Murray would be like with another dog in the house :lol

Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy. He patterned his mid-range from Demar

Its nice to have another Alpha to share the loading, it's too much for Murray to handle alone.

[Maddog]

Davis feels like Demar DeRozan but has the ability and want to go shoot the three, also way better defender. Imo, should be the pick.

As someone who doesn't watch college hoops
Can someone comment on his 3 pt shooting?
Barely 30 percent last year.
Also the one game I saw he doesn't look the most athletic player

[Vince Carter's ankle]

As someone who doesn't watch college hoops
Can someone comment on his 3 pt shooting?
Barely 30 percent last year.
Also the one game I saw he doesn't look the most athletic player
First 15 games 37% 4.6 3PA, last 16: 21.1% 3.3 3PA
Study 21-54 (38.9%) on catch-and-shoot looks in half-cort
Mediocre shot selection on pullups due to the three-point line
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIr9_B76mIc

[Maddog]

First 15 games 37% 4.6 3PA, last 16: 21.1% 3.3 3PA
Study 21-54 (38.9%) on catch-and-shoot looks in half-cort
Mediocre shot selection on pullups due to the three-point line
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIr9_B76mIc
Watching that makes me wonder if he can those shots off in the NBA.
Glad I'm not making the picks.

[John B]

^ he was taking bad shots with the only top dog left from the previous year. Plus he had an ankle injury. Still he was 80% from the line. I think he gets better with better quality shots around NBA guys.

[rascal]

^ he was taking bad shots with the only top dog left from the previous year. Plus he had an ankle injury. Still he was 80% from the line. I think he gets better with better quality shots around NBA guys.

So he's not a volume scorer.

[John B]

So he's not a volume scorer.

He’s going to have better quality shots in the NBA, so I think he is. Plus this guy has plenty in his offensive arsenals, pnr, dribble to the basket, step back, fade aways, catch and shoot. He can back down his man. He’s been compared to Manu, but I see a lot of TP also on his under the basket game, how he weaves through defenders. Sorry, I really like this kid :lol

[CGD]

In evaluating him, don’t discount the nature and style of the crappy crappy crappy crappy Big 10. And, Wisconsin glacial basketball style in particular is the king turd of all those turds.

[rascal]

He’s going to have better quality shots in the NBA, so I think he is. Plus this guy has plenty in his offensive arsenals, pnr, dribble to the basket, step back, fade aways, catch and shoot. He can back down his man. He’s been compared to Manu, but I see a lot of TP also on his under the basket game, how he weaves through defenders. Sorry, I really like this kid :lol

Has a great mid range game but needs to improve shooting from beyond the arc.

[Ignazzz]

Is he better prospect then James Bouknight ?

[slick'81]

https://youtu.be/oi_2Gs-TDRk

[Drom John]

Davis ended up 48th in Pelton's stats only draft value.

[The Truth #6]

Davis ended up 48th in Pelton's stats only draft value.

Is this one of those paywall articles, I'm guessing?

[Drom John]

Is this one of those paywall articles, I'm guessing?

Yes, so I'm too cheap to have seen it, but I've found reports of 1-18, 20, 22, 24, 32, 33, 35, 38, 44, 45, 48, 59.

[rascal]

Davis ended up 48th in Pelton's stats only draft value.

Pelton is way off on many players. Davis is going inside the top 15 picks.

[John B]

Pelton is way off on many players. Davis is going inside the top 15 picks.

I couldn’t agree more.

[Mr. Body]

I know we're all basically done with our evaluations, but here's Johnny Davis and Khris Middleton coming out of college. Davis has him statistically beat almost everywhere and they're pretty similar players. Note that Middleton is taller and more of an SF.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=johnny-davis--khris-middleton

[widowmaker]

I know we're all basically done with our evaluations, but here's Johnny Davis and Khris Middleton coming out of college. Davis has him statistically beat almost everywhere and they're pretty similar players. Note that Middleton is taller and more of an SF.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=johnny-davis--khris-middleton


Dude for real? “Hes more of an SF and taller” Wow the stupidity on Spurs Talk surprises me every day

[Dverde]

I think he is the pick if he is still there.

[Mr. Body]

Dude for real? “Hes more of an SF and taller” Wow the stupidity on Spurs Talk surprises me every day

I literally said he's more of an SF and taller. What else do you want to compare? Cock size? How many stuffed rabbits they have? What's your fucking point, bro?

[BatManu20]

Davis goes 7 to Portland if they don’t trade the pick imo. Maybe still does depending on who trades up for that pick. New Orleans at 8 is also a possibility for him. Either way, I think he’s gone by our pick.

[BatManu20]

Even if Davis were available at 9, this feels like a situation where Spurs fans are excited he’s still available and then we pass on him for Sochan anyways :lol

[DPG21920]

I would be happy with Davis at 9 but he makes me nervous. But at least he’s a competitor.

[Mr. Body]

Davis goes 7 to Portland if they don’t trade the pick imo. Maybe still does depending on who trades up for that pick. New Orleans at 8 is also a possibility for him. Either way, I think he’s gone by our pick.

My feeling is the same, that the mocks are flipping things a bit and Davis may be rated higher than they expect. But this would mean Mathurin or Daniels (most likely) shake down to 9.

I've had times where I prefer Mathurin, but he has a lot to work on. His catch-and-shoot numbers are actually worse than Sochan's, and he has poor timing on passes and is not an adept ball handler, beyond not being the same defender.

[DPG21920]

I think Davis is going to be there at 9. I’m pretty confident of this.

[BatManu20]

I think Davis is going to be there at 9. I’m pretty confident of this.

So you think Shaedon ends up going top-8 despite the rumors of him slipping a bit? Or someone else. Cause 6-8 is where things are more questionable imo. I got Mathurin, Davis, and Daniels going there. Shaedon is still a possibility. Dieng, Griffin, or Duren could be a surprise pick in there but idk. Who ya got in those slots?

[DAF86]

Seems like an awful fit, tbh. Another midling slightly undersized wing that does a little bit of everything but doesn't excell at nothing in particular.

[DPG21920]

So you think Shaedon ends up going top-8 despite the rumors of him slipping a bit? Or someone else. Cause 6-8 is where things are more questionable imo. I got Mathurin, Davis, and Daniels going there. Shaedon is still a possibility. Dieng, Griffin, or Duren could be a surprise pick in there but idk. Who ya got in those slots?

Not in any specific order: Paolo, Jabari, Chet, Ivey, Keegan, Sochan, Dyson, Mathurin, Sharpe. Even if Sharpe falls I think other 8 are off board. Even if I’m wrong one, Sharpe slots into one of top 8 instead of Sochan/Dyson?

[DPG21920]

Seems like an awful fit, tbh. Another midling slightly undersized wing that does a little bit of everything but doesn't excell at nothing in particular.

He reminds me of a better defensive but more questionable offensive CJ McCollum

[Dverde]

Seems like an awful fit, tbh. Another midling slightly undersized wing that does a little bit of everything but doesn't excell at nothing in particular.

Confident Spurs will pick best player available with #9, #20 may be drafted for need. I wouldn’t be shocked if they drafted two guards and sold pick #25.

[rjv]

decent shot that davis is on the board when the spurs pick but it wouldn't shock me if he went before the spurs are up. especially if sharpe and daniels drop.

[John B]

My pick at 9.

[AFBlue]

My pick at 9.

Interesting. What do you see as his role in the NBA; who does he play with in the Spurs rotation? Do you see upside with his shooting efficiency as his usage significantly diminishes from college? Concerns with his athleticism at the next level?

[widowmaker]

I literally said he's more of an SF and taller. What else do you want to compare? Cock size? How many stuffed rabbits they have? What's your fucking point, bro?

whoa, whoa, whoa you might be interested in cock size but im not. Stuffed rabbits hmm you lost me.

[John B]

Interesting. What do you see as his role in the NBA; who does he play with in the Spurs rotation? Do you see upside with his shooting efficiency as his usage significantly diminishes from college? Concerns with his athleticism at the next level?

I’ve posted before why I zeroed in on Davis. I see the Spurs’ immediate needs as follows, and who could be available at 9:

1. Go-to scorer - Davis, Duren, Mathurin, Sharpe, Jaylen Williams
2. Defensive big at 4 - Sochan, Eason, Dieng, Liddell, LaRavia, Minnot
3. Point-of-attack defender - Davis, Dyson
4. On man defense at 5 - Duren, Williams, Kessler, Koloko

Davis checks off 1 and 3. The point-of-attack defender is somewhat neglected in this forum, and posters mostly see the hole in the PF position. But equally important, the Spurs get torched by shifty guards on a nightly basis. Davis is one of the best point-of-attack defender on this draft. While Dyson could be another option, I see Davis intangibles: 100% competitor on both sides of the court, he will dive for 50/50 ball, block, rebound. He’s been compared to Manu in that regard. And he has proven to be the go-to guy and will not shy from shooting as the main option at Wisconsin. He was 38% at 3pt at freshman, but dipped to 30% the following year after his 4 other scorers left and he was forced to carry the team, resulting to taking forceful shots at times. But he remained 80% at the FT. So I’m confident his 3pt percentage would improve with better teammates. The kid is a natural leader. Besides DJ, I don’t see another Spurs who is willing to take the helm, maybe Primo. He is ultra-competitive and just a coaches dream. I would not be surprised if Pop loves this kid from day 1.

I think it’s easier to address the PF position with the latter pick like Eason, etc. Ideally I would love for them to trade Keldon plus picks (not 9) for Keegan (if possible) or Sochan. Keegan surely addresses needs 1 and 2, go-to scorer and defensive PF. While Sochan is one of the best defensive PF and can cover arguably 1-5, with playmaking upsides but his shooting is suspect.

The 5 can be addressed with a latter pick, or even trade for Myles Turner. If not, we could see if Poeltl is better alomg side a defensive PF.

Again, to me Davis is the better bang for the money, and still allow the flexibility to address the other needs. I’d be thrilled with the line-up of:

DJ, Davis, Devin, Sochan/Eason, Turner

[KingKev]

A back court if he and Murray would be fun if he could get a reliable 3pt shot.

Taco Cabana may not approve however.

[slick'81]

Are we not expecting vassell to continue to play with murray? I dont know where another wing fits with vassell,and primo needing minutes

[John B]

Are we not expecting vassell to continue to play with murray? I dont know where another wing fits with vassell,and primo needing minutes

The concern I have with Vassell is if he’s going to be a lockdown defender. He is a great help defender, but a tad slow staying in front of a shifty guard. Devin is ideally a SF. He has to fight with Keldon.

Primo is not ready at starter, and also not a lockdown defender.

But Spurs cannot ignore the hole at point-of-attack where likes of Fox, Haliburton, SGA, Ja, even Van Fleet or Dillon Brooks torch the Spurs :lol

[slick'81]

The concern I have with Vassell is if he’s going to be a lockdown defender. He is a great help defender, but a tad slow stating in front of a shifty guard. Devin is ideally a SF. He has to fight with Keldon.

Primo is not ready at starter, and also not a lockdown defender.


Yea, vassell or primo can fit at 3

[The Truth #6]

A back court if he and Murray would be fun if he could get a reliable 3pt shot.

Taco Cabana may not approve however.

Taco Cabana’s glory days are long gone, unfortunately. Taco Bell is owned by Pizza Hut, I think, so perhaps he could slide into the long tradition of Spurs Pizza Hut ads? Ha.

[KingKev]

Taco Cabana’s glory days are long gone, unfortunately. Taco Bell is owned by Pizza Hut, I think, so perhaps he could slide into the long tradition of Spurs Pizza Hut ads? Ha.

Haha ppl forget Robinson and Rodman literally were the poster boys for stuffed crust pizza; globally!

[slick'81]

Haha ppl forget Robinson and Rodman literally were the posters boys for stuffed crust pizza.

never


https://youtu.be/UNYzbesuUX0

[KingKev]

^ nostalgic

[KingKev]

JD compares himself to Booker for multiple reasons including both being light skinned. Maybe he could shoot like Book one day?

https://bleacherreport.com/post/nba-draft/d6436621-c123-402d-8b9c-bc6bffc840cc

[DAF86]

Just did a little bit of research on this guy and he just looks like more of the same: a 6'5 ish guard, without the greatest of lengths nor athleticism, that takes a lot of midrange jumpers and has a mediocre 3pt ball. He also doesn't seem like a guy with a super high ceiling so as to ignore the obvious fit problems and take him anyways hoping that he becomes a superstar one day.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Just did a little bit of research on this guy and he just looks like more of the same: a 6'5 ish guard, without the greatest of lengths nor athleticism, that takes a lot of midrange jumpers and has a mediocre 3pt ball. He also doesn't seem like a guy with a super high ceiling so as to ignore the obvious fit problems and take him anyways hoping that he becomes a superstar one day.