Draft Strategy: Trading Down With Charlotte

[Mr. Body]

I wonder if there is appetite to trade the #9 down to Charlotte for the #13 and #15. In some gamed-out mocks, the #9 starts losing value while players the Spurs might still covet might last a few more spots.

Obviously the trade compounds the issue of having too many picks, so the later picks would need to be consolidated or traded out. Or something crazy like the #20 paired with one of the new ones to move up.

Charlotte fans seem fixated on Jalen Duren, who probably doesn't last until #13. (I want to ignore proposals for trading Poeltl to them for now.) But Mark Williams might still be there, who the Spurs could value more.

So what are thoughts about such a thing, provided the later picks are accounted for? Is it worth losing out on a Tier 3-ish player like Johnny Davis if you can cement two good Tier 4 players (however you account for them)? Say, a Mark Williams and Ousmane Dieng, that sort of thing?

[slick'81]

You son of a bitch,im in

[DPG21920]

I’d just offer 20+25 for 15 honestly.

[KingKev]

I’d just offer 20+25 for 15 honestly.

Doubt that gets you there.

[BacktoBasics]

A month ago I would have hated this. Today. Not so much. There’s a number of players 12-18 that I think spurs fans would covet in hindsight. Not the worst idea to get two rather than one arguably slightly better.

[DPG21920]

Doubt that gets you there.

If we are suggesting 13 & 15 gets you 9, 20 and 25 for 15 comparatively is more than enough.

[Mr. Body]

Compounding things for Charlotte, scenarios exist that have Duren and M. Williams both gone by pick #13. Washington and OKC both need some size, although the Thunder might hav just picked Holmgren. Duren could be an option for teams in the 5-8 range. Although the Knicks have other needs, they're probably losing Mitch Robinson and Duren reads like a Knicks player.

I'm not sure, but there's some possibility there. Sell Charlotte on landing their coveted center. You're probably trading away from Johnny Davis. But gaming it out, it looks like players like Sochan, Branham, Dieng, are still there. You can probably take one of them and make sure you get Jalen Williams.

[Mr. Body]

If we are suggesting 13 & 15 gets you 9, 20 and 25 for 15 comparatively is more than enough.

The problem is the #15 is a Charlotte pick and I'm not sure they want three picks total. Cleveland has the #14 and Atlanta has the #16.

[offset formation]

I think this would make sense for us assuming we can still pick up 4 or 5 high floor guys that fill current gaps, which we could do. Drafting at 13, 15, 20, and 25 would quite possibly still get 3 of Dieng, Mathurian, Jovic, Eason, Daniels, Baldwin, Liddell, or Brown. That would leave 25 and 38 for a Procida, Nzosa, or maybe even a bit of Cock Burn,

But quite frankly, I don't see the motivation for Charlotte to do that. This draft may be top loaded with potential future All-Stars, but there may be an additional 15-20 guys that turn into long range NBA starters and contributors. More picks in this particular draft is where the juice is squeezed..

Even if that puts the front office in a pickle with open slots on the roster, I think you take as many high floor guys as you can into camp and see what gives.

So, yes please.

Edit: Just saw Mathurian has skyrocketed up to the 5th pick in the latest CBS draft. Holy shit. Forget Mathurian apparently. But that just pushes other folks many are high on further down the list.

[Mr. Body]

I think this would make sense for us assuming we can still pick up 4 or 5 high floor guys that fill current gaps, which we could do. Drafting at 13, 15, 20, and 25 would quite possibly still get 3 of Dieng, Mathurian, Jovic, Eason, Daniels, Baldwin, Liddell, or Brown. That would leave 25 and 38 for a Procida, Nzosa, or maybe even a bit of Cock Burn,

But quite frankly, I don't see the motivation for Charlotte to do that. This draft may be top loaded with potential future All-Stars, but there may be an additional 15-20 guys that turn into long range NBA starters and contributors. More picks in this particular draft is where the juice is squeezed..

Even if that puts the front office in a pickle with open slots on the roster, I think you take as many high floor guys as you can into camp and see what gives.

So, yes please.

I think for Charlotte it's because they so badly need a center, especially a defensive center. They seem to be considering RFA Mo Bamba or figuring out how to go for Ayton. If they miss out on M. Williams and Duren, the rank of centers in this class dives pretty quickly. Koloko and Kamagate are limited or projects, and then Kessler seems very slow footed, a problem on any team, very troublesome for a team that will want to fly. The 13 and 15 seem like good value to move into the late top 10, if they want. I suppose the Spurs could use the 20 or 25 to make them feel better.

[offset formation]

This is an intriguing idea, Mr. Body, tbh.

[rascal]

No, the play is to try to trade up.

[BackHome]

Yeah, definitely worth a deep dive in what we should do as the draft I think is going to be crazy and could see Durren and Williams off the board by 13. So we give up our 9th and 25th pick and we get Charlotte 13th and 15th pick? In that case we probably looking at Johnny Davis, and Dieng or Williams, and Tari Eason.

My question is if we do start the trade talks again with Jakob what would your asking price be from Charlotte? I could see us trading Jakob for their 13th this year, and a first next year with built in protections for both teams?

[Strategic]

Trade down and get more of the same guys like already on the roster. Hope not

[pad300]

Trading down and adding more picks doesn't work; we're already pushing up against the limited # of roster spots... More likely to try trading up to consolidate picks (or to move them to a future draft).

[CGD]

If we only had 9, I’d say go for it.

With 20, 25, 38, what’s the point? You’re basically looking at the difference between an Eason and a Liddell, while losing a chance to get a solid piece at 9.

[Chinook]

I could easily see doing 9 and 25 for 13 and 15. There are plenty of mocks that have ST favorites like Sochan, Davis, Eason and Williams available at 13 or even 15. It's very possible the Spurs can get two of those second-tier players, if not three. There are obviously scenarios where the Spurs shouldn't do this, like if one of the 1A-tier guys falls (Mathurin, Murray or whomever), or if the Spurs are already planning on using one or both of their later firsts on reaches (no need to pay gambles even more money). But I personally prefer to do this trade then to throw in one of the other picks for a JAG prospect like many STers seem to want.

[TD 21]

Compounding things for Charlotte, scenarios exist that have Duren and M. Williams both gone by pick #13. Washington and OKC both need some size, although the Thunder might hav just picked Holmgren. Duren could be an option for teams in the 5-8 range. Although the Knicks have other needs, they're probably losing Mitch Robinson and Duren reads like a Knicks player.

I'm not sure, but there's some possibility there. Sell Charlotte on landing their coveted center. You're probably trading away from Johnny Davis. But gaming it out, it looks like players like Sochan, Branham, Dieng, are still there. You can probably take one of them and make sure you get Jalen Williams.

This trade makes no sense for either team. Spurs already have quantity of picks and desperately need quality.

The Wizards don't need a C (Porzingis, Gafford) and barring trades within' the top 10, the earliest I could see Duren or Williams going is 11 to the Knicks.

There's a good chance of the Thunder at 12 (Holmgren is likely to start at PF early on) and Hornets at 13 have them available and if not both have the assets to swing a trade.



If we only had 9, I’d say go for it.

With 20, 25, 38, what’s the point? You’re basically looking at the difference between an Eason and a Liddell, while losing a chance to get a solid piece at 9.

I'm not thrilled with the likely best projected options at 9, but there's still a better chance of getting a quality piece with it than moving further down. This board's fascination with collecting as much likely JAG's as possible is bizarre.

[The Truth #6]

I’m on the fence. Perhaps the only reason I’d consider it is if, unfortunately, the player we’d pick at 9 would still have been available at 13. There’s a decent chance of that.

[Uriel]

In a vacuum, I think is a good idea. But on draft day, I believe there is a strong chance that somebody widely considered to be “out of our range” like Murray, Sharpe, or Daniels will fall. In that scenario, holding on to the #9 pick to draft one of those guys would be the better move.

[Uriel]

Incidentally, this is one reason why I believe the #9 pick has historically yielded numerous all-stars. Teams drafting higher tend to fall in love with certain prospects, leading to players that should have been drafted higher falling, and thereby being scooped up by teams at #9.

[JPB]

So we went from "Oh no! we're not top 4!" to.. "we should try to trade up!" to..."some gem might fall to #9!" to... "I want jalen, I want Mathurin, I want Sharpe!" to..."let's trade down for 13 and 15 to get B players you already have in the roster and will piss everyone off here!"

Trading down is OK when you're a contender and don't need some more star power, not when you're a fringe play in team looking for a "game changer". Not like this draft was stacked with surefire superstars.

Now saying this, that might be something spurs could do :lol

[Mr. Body]

So we went from "Oh no! we're not top 4!" to.. "we should try to trade up!" to..."some gem might fall to #9!" to... "I want jalen, I want Mathurin, I want Sharpe!" to..."let's trade down for 13 and 15 to get B players you already have in the roster and will piss everyone off here!"

Trading down is OK when you're a contender and don't need some more star power, not when you're a fringe play in team looking for a "game changer". Not like this draft was stacked with surefire superstars.

Now saying this, that might be something spurs could do :lol

I never was for trading up. Also, you didn't really understand anything about this thread, but that's okay.

[offset formation]

I’m on the fence. Perhaps the only reason I’d consider it is if, unfortunately, the player we’d pick at 9 would still have been available at 13. There’s a decent chance of that.

I believe that is OP's point. Is there a single player that we can't pass up at 9 that wouldn't be available at 13 or 15? I mean this draft class should have a bunch of guys we'd be content drafting that even if we miss out on, other equally intriguing talents should be available a few picks later.

Is there a wide talent gulf between #9 & #13? Imo, no, tbh.

[Mr. Body]

I believe that is OP's point. Is there a single player that we can't pass up at 9 that wouldn't be available at 13 or 15? I mean this draft class should have a bunch of guys we'd be content drafting that even if we miss out on, other equally intriguing talents should be available a few picks later.

Is there a wide talent gulf between #9 & #13? Imo, no, tbh.

That's it. Utimately, the Spurs' FO aren't gamblers in general. If there's a player they like, they'll take that player. And this deal depends on Duren not getting picked earlier than #9, which I think is still a possibility. So I don't think this happens at all.

But... yes, essentially this all hangs on a feeling that there's a tier of players where the players at #9 and players available around #13-15 aren't that different. To take the leap it requires reading what Washington, New York, and OKC are likely to do at 10, 11, and 12.

Washington -- most needs a good center and a point guard
New York -- also needs a center, a point guard, also could use some shooting
Oklahoma City -- needs everything, in particular size at center and shooting, but could just be BPA

These teams are actually in a weird spot, because their biggest needs don't really have great players there. Regardless, it's conceivable they take AJ Griffin, Mark Williams, Johnny Davis. By my estimation this leaves the Spurs looking at Ousmane Dieng, Malaki Branham, Ochai Agbaji, Jalen Williams, and Jeremy Sochan has not been taken yet. In between the Charlotte picks is Cleveland and they already have bigs, so I have them taking Branham or maybe like Jaden Hardy.

So at the 'cost' of not getting Johnny Davis, the Spurs get Dieng and Sochan. Or Sochan and Jalen Williams. Whatever. Or if those intervening teams pass on M. Williams or Davis then those players are available at 13.

[rascal]

If Duren is picked top 8.

1. J Smith
2.Holmgren
3. Banchero
4.Ivey
5. Mathurin
6. Murray
7. Sharpe
8. Duren
9. Williams
10. Daniels
11. Davis
12. Sochan
13.Dieng
14. Jalen Williams
15. Branham/Ogbaji

You happy coming away with Dieng and Branham/Ogbaji ?

[The Truth #6]

If Duren is picked top 8.

1. J Smith
2.Holmgren
3. Banchero
4.Ivey
5. Mathurin
6. Murray
7. Sharpe
8. Duren
9. Williams
10. Daniels
11. Davis
12. Sochan
13.Dieng
14. Jalen Williams
15. Branham/Ogbaji

You happy coming away with Dieng and Branham/Ogbaji ?

If I could get Eason and Jalen Williams, yes. But it’s a risk.

[Mr. Body]

If Duren is picked top 8.

1. J Smith
2.Holmgren
3. Banchero
4.Ivey
5. Mathurin
6. Murray
7. Sharpe
8. Duren
9. Williams
10. Daniels
11. Davis
12. Sochan
13.Dieng
14. Jalen Williams
15. Branham/Ogbaji

You happy coming away with Dieng and Branham/Ogbaji ?

Read my post at the end of the last page. This is what I see happening right now, with some variation:

1. Jabari Smith
2. Chet Holmgren
3. Paolo Banchero
4. Jaden Ivey
5. Shaedon Sharpe
6. Keegan Murray
7. Bennedict Mathurin
8. Dyson Daniels
9. Jalen Duren (Charlotte)
10. AJ Griffin
11. Mark Williams
12. Johnny Davis

13. Ousmane Dieng (Spurs)
14. Malaki Branham
15. Jeremy Sochan (Spurs)

If NYC takes Sochan and OKC take Dieng, for example, you then have Williams and Davis drop. Or Griffin drops - I would consider him at that point. The way things are changing, we could see Branham higher in the lottery, etc.

[Bellboy]

Go Crazy. Go for High Lotto 2023


Poeltl, McDermott, Langford, #20,#38 for Hayward, #13, #15

S&T for Bamba.

Keep Hayward for Team Leader or trade in 2023 to contenders looking for that one piece

[The Truth #6]

Read my post at the end of the last page. This is what I see happening right now, with some variation:

1. Jabari Smith
2. Chet Holmgren
3. Paolo Banchero
4. Jaden Ivey
5. Shaedon Sharpe
6. Keegan Murray
7. Bennedict Mathurin
8. Dyson Daniels
9. Jalen Duren (Charlotte)
10. AJ Griffin
11. Mark Williams
12. Johnny Davis

13. Ousmane Dieng (Spurs)
14. Malaki Branham
15. Jeremy Sochan (Spurs)

If NYC takes Sochan and OKC take Dieng, for example, you then have Williams and Davis drop. Or Griffin drops - I would consider him at that point. The way things are changing, we could see Branham higher in the lottery, etc.

Big picture, this is an interesting discussion. Obviously, hard to predict, but Sochan dropping to 15 is not something I have a high confidence in, that would be my concern with this idea.

[JPB]

I never was for trading up. Also, you didn't really understand anything about this thread, but that's okay.



Uh, if you can't take contradiction and different opinions just don't ask for them... No need take pzrsonal offense like a pouting kid and take the "you're stupid" road just because I disagree. I didn't specifically targetting you or whatever and other posters have basically say the same things I did.

But here's litterally your first post where you bring the trading down option for 2 B players Vs. one A player... Fell free to tell what I didn't understand when I say I wouldn't:

"I wonder if there is appetite to trade the #9 down to Charlotte for the #13 and #15. In some gamed-out mocks, the #9 starts losing value while players the Spurs might still covet might last a few more spots.

Obviously the trade compounds the issue of having too many picks, so the later picks would need to be consolidated or traded out. Or something crazy like the #20 paired with one of the new ones to move up.

Charlotte fans seem fixated on Jalen Duren, who probably doesn't last until #13. (I want to ignore proposals for trading Poeltl to them for now.) But Mark Williams might still be there, who the Spurs could value more.

So what are thoughts about such a thing, provided the later picks are accounted for? Is it worth losing out on a Tier 3-ish player like Johnny Davis if you can cement two good Tier 4 players (however you account for them)? Say, a Mark Williams and Ousmane Dieng, that sort of thing?"

[Mr. Body]

Big picture, this is an interesting discussion. Obviously, hard to predict, but Sochan dropping to 15 is not something I have a high confidence in, that would be my concern with this idea.

Sochan would only need to drop to 13. I can see Washington (10) pass, as they have a glut of forwards. I can see NYC (11) take him, definitely, although they also have a glut of forwards. I can see OKC (12) take him, although I don't have a clue what they're doing. I can also see NOP (8) take him. He's all over the place.

But in this playful scenario, he wouuld need to get past those three teams to get to 13. The Spurs might bank on Cleveland (14) not taking him to let him slide to 15. Even if he is gone within 10-12, there are other players they might want. For example, NYC (11) takes Sochan, OKC (12) takes M. Williams, the Spurs (13) take Johnny Davis.

Who knows. But I do think we're seeing some interesting players fall into the 10-15 range.

[JPB]

If Duren is picked top 8.

1. J Smith
2.Holmgren
3. Banchero
4.Ivey
5. Mathurin
6. Murray
7. Sharpe
8. Duren
9. Williams
10. Daniels
11. Davis
12. Sochan
13.Dieng
14. Jalen Williams
15. Branham/Ogbaji

You happy coming away with Dieng and Branham/Ogbaji ?

Problem is also is that we are speculating on Sochan, Dieng or whatever players falling at 13 and 15 (meaning there's a reason for that, and players above are supposedly better independety of teams needs) without actually be sure of their worth...

Who ever saw one Dieng game on this board? But suddenly it would be worth trading down for him and Sochan or whoever that I'm also sure few saw ever play... That's a big risk for the spurs giving their situation. Do we really them to gamble? that's not virtual GM'ing where you can reset on the fly.

Do we first want a game changer and a scorer or... Dieng & Branham in team already filled with young B players... Word was that there were a big drop off after pick 6-7 but now 13 and 15 are worth trading 9... Nah, You have 20 and 25 to gamble, take the freaking BPA at 9 which will also eventually help you attract FA's. I mean good luck selling Dieng & Branham to Lavine to make him sign. Sure he never heard of them.

Hell, trade up a few spots (like 18 or even 19) with 20 and 25 if there's someone you still really like and gamble on.

[The Truth #6]

The other scenario. Package 20, 25, and somehow Richardson/McB to get a pick in the teens.

[Mr. Body]

The other scenario. Package 20, 25, and somehow Richardson/McB to get a pick in the teens.

Yeah, maybe worth it's own thread! I think 20 and 25 can get you from 15-18 or so. The question is what teams are actually there:

14. Cleveland.
15. Charlotte.
16. Atlanta.
17. Houston.
18. Chicago.

It depends on what those teams see around pick 20. I feel like there's a fall-off in the late teens (at this point). Charlotte likely won't want to trade back for two picks since they already start with two. I feel like Cleveland may be too far to jump and Chicago may be too close.

Ultimately, definitely a possibility, just a question of who is around and what other teams value.

[mo7888]

Yeah, maybe worth it's own thread! I think 20 and 25 can get you from 15-18 or so. The question is what teams are actually there:

14. Cleveland.
15. Charlotte.
16. Atlanta.
17. Houston.
18. Chicago.

It depends on what those teams see around pick 20. I feel like there's a fall-off in the late teens (at this point). Charlotte likely won't want to trade back for two picks since they already start with two. I feel like Cleveland may be too far to jump and Chicago may be too close.

Ultimately, definitely a possibility, just a question of who is around and what other teams value.

Gotta say...this is an interesting thread.. I wouldn't be against making the Charlotte deal depending on who's available at 9 on draft night like you said...

As for a drop-off, I have it as a pretty significant drop off at pick 22...

[SAGirl]

Difficult for me to even discuss this because so much of it depends on context, who is taken where, whether someone the team really likes falls to them inexplicably making trading down unappealing or a straightforward no, etc.

Also unlikely to happen because the Spurs have their cats they want and won’t risk losing them by trading down if those guys are available when they pick. I suppose if their favorite is gone and they have options, but they already have options with the 20-25 and could rather explore trying to trade up rather than down.

[Kevin]

Jak plus the 25 & 38 for the 13, 15 and a unprotected 2023 second pick could work for both teams too.

Controlling the 9, 13, 15, 20 could be enough ammo to land Mathurin in a trade up followed by a big run at Ayton in free agency.

[JPB]

Jak plus the 25 & 38 for the 13, 15 and a unprotected 2023 second pick could work for both teams too.

Controlling the 9, 13, 15, 20 could be enough ammo to land Mathurin in a trade up followed by a big run at Ayton in free agency.

Every time you think about a trade, ask yourself: "Would I do it if I'm the opposite team?

The answer to that for that trade is "no". I mean #38 has little to no value so you're basically giving up 13 and 15 for Jak (who's up for a big raise soon) and 25.

[Kevin]

Every time you think about a trade, ask yourself: "Would I do it if I'm the opposite team?

The answer to that for that trade is "no". I mean #38 has little to no value so you're basically giving up 13 and 15 for Jak (who's up for a big raise soon) and 25.

Jak is a good player at a position of need for them who still has year left on a cheap deal. It's the 13 and 10 pick move back plus they get a high second rounder this year. It's a pretty good deal for a win now team. Plus they acquire Jak's bird rights.

[CGD]

If the two top centers are gone by 13, I’m calling CHA offering Jakob. Then i overpay for Hartlestien in the summer.

[KingKev]

Every time you think about a trade, ask yourself: "Would I do it if I'm the opposite team?

The answer to that for that trade is "no". I mean #38 has little to no value so you're basically giving up 13 and 15 for Jak (who's up for a big raise soon) and 25.

Agreed. The time to move Jak was at the deadline. He has less value now.

[John B]

Jak plus the 25 & 38 for the 13, 15 and a unprotected 2023 second pick could work for both teams too.

Controlling the 9, 13, 15, 20 could be enough ammo to land Mathurin in a trade up followed by a big run at Ayton in free agency.

I’d rather move up my 25 and 38 with Jak for that 13 and 15. Draft Dieng and Williams. Keep that 9 for Sochan. But yup, Dieng as a 2-3 years project is a very high ceiling if he pans out, with his handles, perimeter coverage, blocking. His shooting form is good and should get better. If he gets any bigger and stronger, Dieng! Point-forward with defense like Simmons with shooting.

[offset formation]

Read my post at the end of the last page. This is what I see happening right now, with some variation:

1. Jabari Smith
2. Chet Holmgren
3. Paolo Banchero
4. Jaden Ivey
5. Shaedon Sharpe
6. Keegan Murray
7. Bennedict Mathurin
8. Dyson Daniels
9. Jalen Duren (Charlotte)
10. AJ Griffin
11. Mark Williams
12. Johnny Davis

13. Ousmane Dieng (Spurs)
14. Malaki Branham
15. Jeremy Sochan (Spurs)

If NYC takes Sochan and OKC take Dieng, for example, you then have Williams and Davis drop. Or Griffin drops - I would consider him at that point. The way things are changing, we could see Branham higher in the lottery, etc.

OKC scout is on record saying he may be the steal of the draft. My bet is if he's still on the board when it's their turn, they snap him up.

[offset formation]

I’d rather move up my 25 and 38 with Jak for that 13 and 15. Draft Dieng and Williams. Keep that 9 for Sochan. But yup, Dieng as a 2-3 years project is a very high ceiling if he pans out, with his handles, perimeter coverage, blocking. His shooting form is good and should get better. If he gets any bigger and stronger, Dieng! Point-forward with defense like Simmons with shooting.

Yes, after Murray, he's most likely to be my number 1 best available when we pick at 9. I could even see OKC trading up out of their 12th spot to go get him ahead of us at 9, potentially.

[KingKev]

Not to mention the salary we'd have to take back. Looks like taking back a turd like Plumlee or Obre comes with eating ~5M next year.

If they miss out on Duren or Williams, I think CHA would seriously have to consider Jak + 25 for Plumlee + 13 not withstanding Jak's expiring status.

One year of Tsunami Papi would not be the worst. He would have been a better addition than McBoogers last offseason.

[offset formation]

One year of Tsunami Papi would not be the worst. He would have been a better addition than McBoogers last offseason.

Tsunami Papi? Plumlee or Oubre? Horrible nickname tho either way.

[JPB]

OKC scout is on record saying he may be the steal of the draft. My bet is if he's still on the board when it's their turn, they snap him up.

Beware of pre-draft declarations. Maybe the guy is a bit naive but not sure if OKC was so high on Dieng they'd yell it at the world. Might be smoke, or not. The thing with Dieng is that we have a full pro season to judge from and I'm honestly not sure where the big hype come from. He's pretty raw to me but I guess scouts judge on potential even though that's not always reliable. There's clearly a risk with Dieng comparing to other lottery picks.

[offset formation]

Beware of pre-draft declarations. Maybe the guy is a bit naive but not sure if OKC was so high on Dieng they'd yell it at the world. Might be smoke, or not. The thing with Dieng is that we have a full pro season to judge from and I'm honestly not sure where the big hype come from. He's pretty raw to me but I guess scouts judge on potential even though that's not always reliable. There's clearly a risk with Dieng comparing to other lottery picks.

No doubt there's BS flying in pre-draft analysis. I watched the YouTube video where the gut said it though and it was a genuine, off the cuff remark that he almost seemed to want back knowing he let it slip. Or maybe I'm just a sucker. :dizzy:soapbox:

[CGD]

OKC scout is on record saying he may be the steal of the draft. My bet is if he's still on the board when it's their turn, they snap him up.

Let them have him if that means one of William or Davis is there at 13. The internet hivemind seems to like Davis to Knicks at 11 meaning Williams could be there at 13 if OKC takes Deng. Sochan at 15 would be awesome; would be silly for CLE to take him at 14 given their roster construction.

[CGD]

Beware of pre-draft declarations. Maybe the guy is a bit naive but not sure if OKC was so high on Dieng they'd yell it at the world. Might be smoke, or not. The thing with Dieng is that we have a full pro season to judge from and I'm honestly not sure where the big hype come from. He's pretty raw to me but I guess scouts judge on potential even though that's not always reliable. There's clearly a risk with Dieng comparing to other lottery picks.

Fair, except the "guy" is Sam Presti...

[TD 21]

Washington -- most needs a good center and a point guard


Porzingis, for all his flaws, still qualifies as a good C (odds are against Duren or Williams being as good) and Gafford is a quality backup. Given that, the fact that they just acquired the former and extended the latter and are trying to win now, they're not utilizing the 10th pick on a C.

[jjspur]

Fair, except the "guy" is Sam Presti...
OKC has how may draft picks in the coming years? This guy is famous for making great deals. For every great deal he makes, some poor schmuck team gets screwed even if a few years down the road. Luckily the spurs haven't dealt with him much. Lets keep it that way.

[Mr. Body]

OKC has how may draft picks in the coming years? This guy is famous for making great deals. For every great deal he makes, some poor schmuck team gets screwed even if a few years down the road. Luckily the spurs haven't dealt with him much. Lets keep it that way.

Isn't he the guy who traded James Harden for Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb?

[KingKev]

Tsunami Papi? Plumlee or Oubre? Horrible nickname tho either way.

Kelly Oubre.

[CGD]

I could easily see doing 9 and 25 for 13 and 15. There are plenty of mocks that have ST favorites like Sochan, Davis, Eason and Williams available at 13 or even 15. It's very possible the Spurs can get two of those second-tier players, if not three. There are obviously scenarios where the Spurs shouldn't do this, like if one of the 1A-tier guys falls (Mathurin, Murray or whomever), or if the Spurs are already planning on using one or both of their later firsts on reaches (no need to pay gambles even more money). But I personally prefer to do this trade then to throw in one of the other picks for a JAG prospect like many STers seem to want.

I like that 9/25 for 13/15 swap. And, if their top target isn’t at 9 any more, I’d draft the better of Williams or Duren there to dangle it over CHA’s head, who will be getting nervous about not landing one of the two bigs.

Worst case they get a solid rim runner for Primo, and Jakob successor. Best case they get Davis (13) and Sochan (15).

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I haven’t seen that the front office knows how to draft that high anyway, unless it’s an obvious pick at #1, so it sounds good to me.

[XDT76]

Just a question, what is stopping Hornets from signing J.Smith with MLE and keep their picks. J.Smith is still young enough to develop better and can shoot 3s which Poeltl, Duren and Williams cannot.

[CGD]

^ Huge drop in defensive potential

[rascal]

Read my post at the end of the last page. This is what I see happening right now, with some variation:

1. Jabari Smith
2. Chet Holmgren
3. Paolo Banchero
4. Jaden Ivey
5. Shaedon Sharpe
6. Keegan Murray
7. Bennedict Mathurin
8. Dyson Daniels
9. Jalen Duren (Charlotte)
10. AJ Griffin
11. Mark Williams
12. Johnny Davis

13. Ousmane Dieng (Spurs)
14. Malaki Branham
15. Jeremy Sochan (Spurs)

If NYC takes Sochan and OKC take Dieng, for example, you then have Williams and Davis drop. Or Griffin drops - I would consider him at that point. The way things are changing, we could see Branham higher in the lottery, etc.

Good luck trying to get both Dieng and Sochan who are your targeted players.

I'm not high on either Sochan or Dieng rather have one of Murray, Sharpe or Mathurin than both of those guys. So trying to trade up a little is a better option to me.

[rascal]

Every time you think about a trade, ask yourself: "Would I do it if I'm the opposite team?

The answer to that for that trade is "no". I mean #38 has little to no value so you're basically giving up 13 and 15 for Jak (who's up for a big raise soon) and 25.

Agree Charlotte won't do that, it would have to be for Jak, 20 and 25 and probably only if both Duren and Williams are off the board by Charlotte's pick at 13, then they may consider pulling the trigger on a deal.

[Mr. Body]

Good luck trying to get both Dieng and Sochan who are your targeted players.

I'm not high on either Sochan or Dieng rather have one of Murray, Sharpe or Mathurin than both of those guys. So trying to trade up a little is a better option to me.

I never said I had targeted players with this scheme. I think you're confused about the entire thing.

[rascal]

I never said I had targeted players with this scheme. I think you're confused about the entire thing.

I'm not confused. Quit saying people don't understand.

And Yes Dieng and Sochan (you've talked up these guys) would be your number one targeted options in this scenario.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not confused. Quit saying people don't understand.

And Yes Dieng and Sochan (you've talked up these guys) would be your number one targeted options in this scenario.

My man, you're befuddled.

[Ariel]

I've been thinking about scenarios like this for a while, and this is one of the sounder ones for the aforementioned reasons. In all honesty, staying at 9 begins to lose value once Mathurin and Daniels are gone, because Sochan might be available a few spots later, and even if he's not, having 13 & 15 guarantee we land an alternative forward with upside who's a good fit (Eason) plus a high upside wing (Johnny Davis -maybe-, or Jalen Williams, or Branham at the very least). The key here is that it's better to have 2 shots at it than 1, provided we're not talking about a significant talent gap, which I don't think it is IN THAT RANGE. I do see it being the case from about 20 on

Of course that should be also be evaluated along with other alternatives, such as moving up from 20/25 or simply getting an extra pick (or two) by means of shopping Poeltl and/or Richardson. And yes, I do know we're not going to add an inordinate amount of rookies, but you can always trade away the picks which have no value to us, meaning where no prospect of interest is available.

In any case my point is, unless you're TRULY convinced one prospect is leaps and bounds above the rest, if we're talking about similar talent level, fit, and chances of success, it's better to have some flexibility and explore alternatives trying to squeeze the most value of our position, than fixating on one guy who's not that far apart as a prospect from those in that range. Which is why moving down (from no. 9) o up (from 20/25) the the mid first round makes a lot of sense, given the considerations above.

[BackHome]

Agree, I think the Spurs definitely need to be working the phones and be able to react as soon as the eighth pick is taken or as soon as someone says a top 6th pick is available. They should also be looking at moving up and including some players either to move up or add additional draft picks either in this year or next.

[JPB]

Fair, except the "guy" is Sam Presti...
sorry but for the record, it's was an OKC scout saying it, not Presti himself.

[JPB]

Agree, I think the Spurs definitely need to be working the phones and be able to react as soon as the eighth pick is taken or as soon as someone says a top 6th pick is available. They should also be looking at moving up and including some players either to move up or add additional draft picks either in this year or next.

Problem is you precisely don't know... You trade down for 13 and 15 then the two guys you really wanted are gone and you're f*cked. There's no 15 equally talented players from 1 to 15 in this draft. And the drop off from 9 to 13 might be important.

Sure, the closer the draft, the greater suddenly more players become... That's partially agents work + NBA teams smoke screen.These guys didn't improve since draft declaration...We went from a top 3 tier players, to 6-7 and now we're getting to 15 and probably to 20+ on draft day... Everyone is great suddenly even if barely anyone saw these guys play. There's definitely a part of wishful thinking in all that. But Considering we also have 20 and 25... I say keep #9. Too risky otherwise.

[BackHome]

It just depends on what the Spurs rate the player if they think trading up is the best thing then do it ie..Kawhi/George Hill then do it- If they don't and 9 comes along and they don't like anyone for that pick and Charlotte calls up and want's it then listen to what they want and if it makes sense then do it. I am not saying do a trade nor am I saying stay pat what I am saying is that the Spurs have to to be flexible and do what ever brings us the best talent

[Excessive Egotist]

Go Crazy. Go for High Lotto 2023


Poeltl, McDermott, Langford, #20,#38 for Hayward, #13, #15

S&T for Bamba.

Keep Hayward for Team Leader or trade in 2023 to contenders looking for that one piece

I like this. Give Charlotte their choice of McDermott or Richardson. Effectively Spurs are swapping 20 and 38 for 13, taking on one of league's worst contracts, and getting 15 for Poeltl. It's fair. If you don't include Langford, Charlotte has more flexible cap space. If the Hornets added Poeltl, Richardson, and had a good free agency, they should be a playoff team, which Jordan wants. The Spurs' ability to be aggressive this offseason diminishes, however.

I don't like drafting the idea of drafting Duren or Mark Williams at 9, but if Mathurin, Daniels, and Sochan are all off the board at 9, swapping 9 for 13 and 15 seems reasonable. Something like Jalen Williams, Eason, Dieng at 13 and Mark Williams at 15 is plausible.

[Excessive Egotist]

Agree, I think the Spurs definitely need to be working the phones and be able to react as soon as the eighth pick is taken or as soon as someone says a top 6th pick is available. They should also be looking at moving up and including some players either to move up or add additional draft picks either in this year or next.

The two teams rumored to be shopping their picks are Sacramento (4) and Portland (7). If the Spurs consolidated, maybe 9 and 20 (25 too?) gets them up to 4 or 7. I wouldn't do that for Banchero, I would do it for Ivey and Smith. I'm on the fence on Holmgren. But that is moot. The more relevant questions is would the Spurs consolidate picks for Benedict Mathurin?

A more realistic option includes Keldon Johnson plus draft picks to go to 4 or 7. In these scenarios, I'd prefer to keep 9 and give up a future FRP, which Portland, at least, would likely prefer as they can later package the pick for a win now player. If the Spurs landed 7 and kept 9, there are lots of appealing scenarios where two of Mathurin, Daniels, and Sochan are available to them.

New Orleans is strong candidate to draft Mathurin or Daniels, if either is on the board. Cutting in front of them would give the Spurs the ability to grab the guy they most believed in.

If our rebuild core became Murray (vet leader), Vassel, Primo, Mathurin, and Sochan, fans would have a lot to be excited about, including our 2023 lottery pick. Plus it puts us in a position to have meaningful cap space in a future offseason that isn't such a dud. If we keep Johnson, we're far more constrained.

[mo7888]

The two teams rumored to be shopping their picks are Sacramento (4) and Portland (7). If the Spurs consolidated, maybe 9 and 20 (25 too?) gets them up to 4 or 7. I wouldn't do that for Banchero, I would do it for Ivey and Smith. I'm on the fence on Holmgren. But that is moot. The more relevant questions is would the Spurs consolidate picks for Benedict Mathurin?

A more realistic option includes Keldon Johnson plus draft picks to go to 4 or 7. In these scenarios, I'd prefer to keep 9 and give up a future FRP, which Portland, at least, would likely prefer as they can later package the pick for a win now player. If the Spurs landed 7 and kept 9, there are lots of appealing scenarios where two of Mathurin, Daniels, and Sochan are available to them.

New Orleans is strong candidate to draft Mathurin or Daniels, if either is on the board. Cutting in front of them would give the Spurs the ability to grab the guy they most believed in.

If our rebuild core became Murray (vet leader), Vassel, Primo, Mathurin, and Sochan, fans would have a lot to be excited about, including our 2023 lottery pick. Plus it puts us in a position to have meaningful cap space in a future offseason that isn't such a dud. If we keep Johnson, we're far more constrained.

If I wanted to move to #4 I'd offer DJ straight up and if they bit.... sign Sexton (who'd look good next to Vassell)...move Poeltl + 25 to Charlotte for #13... draft Banchero at 4...Duren at 9..Dieng at 13...and Procida at 20...Alondes at 38

Sexton, Tre, Alondes
Vassell, Richardson, Primo
KJ, McDermott, Procida
Banchero, Dieng, KBD,
Duren, Collins, Landale

[BackHome]

That is bold but I like being bold right now and to be honest I kind of like that trade if we could pull it off which is a big IF - But that is the kind of thinking and scenarios that I want the Spurs to be thinking and to be willing to execute if possible

[rascal]

I like this. Give Charlotte their choice of McDermott or Richardson. Effectively Spurs are swapping 20 and 38 for 13, taking on one of league's worst contracts, and getting 15 for Poeltl. It's fair. If you don't include Langford, Charlotte has more flexible cap space. If the Hornets added Poeltl, Richardson, and had a good free agency, they should be a playoff team, which Jordan wants. The Spurs' ability to be aggressive this offseason diminishes, however.

I don't like drafting the idea of drafting Duren or Mark Williams at 9, but if Mathurin, Daniels, and Sochan are all off the board at 9, swapping 9 for 13 and 15 seems reasonable. Something like Jalen Williams, Eason, Dieng at 13 and Mark Williams at 15 is plausible.

I don't think Jordan moves both 13 and 15 unless he is getting an all star back.

[CGD]

If I wanted to move to #4 I'd offer DJ straight up and if they bit.... sign Sexton (who'd look good next to Vassell)...move Poeltl + 25 to Charlotte for #13... draft Banchero at 4...Duren at 9..Dieng at 13...and Procida at 20...Alondes at 38

Sexton, Tre, Alondes
Vassell, Richardson, Primo
KJ, McDermott, Procida
Banchero, Dieng, KBD,
Duren, Collins, Landale

Only problem is Kings already have Fox and Mitchell in their backcourt, but generally I’m not opposed to moving DJ in a scenario like this.

[rascal]

If I wanted to move to #4 I'd offer DJ straight up and if they bit.... sign Sexton (who'd look good next to Vassell)...move Poeltl + 25 to Charlotte for #13... draft Banchero at 4...Duren at 9..Dieng at 13...and Procida at 20...Alondes at 38

Sexton, Tre, Alondes
Vassell, Richardson, Primo
KJ, McDermott, Procida
Banchero, Dieng, KBD,
Duren, Collins, Landale

It's probably going to cost you Murray + 9 to move up to 4. Targeting 7 would be less costly.

At 7 you can get Murray, Sharpe or Mathurin whichever one is left.

Probably will cost you Murray and 25 or 20 to get 7.

Most trades are not going to be clear cut winning trades on your end, there has to be some pain in what you'll be giving up to make it worthwhile for the other team to even make a trade.

[mo7888]

Only problem is Kings already have Fox and Mitchell in their backcourt, but generally I’m not opposed to moving DJ in a scenario like this.

I don’t think Mitchell can start alongside Fox but, DJ would fit there pretty good..

[mo7888]

It's probably going to cost you Murray + 9 to move up to 4. Targeting 7 would be less costly.

I wouldn't pay that price...if they want more than a young Allstar on a reasonable contract I'd pass.

[rascal]

I wouldn't pay that price...if they want more than a young Allstar on a reasonable contract I'd pass.

Then you won't be making any trades. Trades have to hurt a little on your side to make it worth it for the other team.

[mo7888]

Then you won't be making any trades. Trades have to hurt a little on your side to make it worth it for the other team.

Possibly but i think youre miscalculating the value here, DJ + 9 is an overpay so that wouldn't hurt any on their side and all the pain would be on ours...

[Excessive Egotist]

I don't think Jordan moves both 13 and 15 unless he is getting an all star back.

FWIW: in my scenario, Jordan not moving both picks. He's swapping 13 for 20 and 38 and moving 15 for Poeltl. Hornets receive Poeltl, Richardson, 20, 38 and get out from under Hayward deal. Spurs get 13 and 15, but have to take on Hayward's contract.

[JPB]

If I wanted to move to #4 I'd offer DJ straight up and if they bit.... sign Sexton (who'd look good next to Vassell)...move Poeltl + 25 to Charlotte for #13... draft Banchero at 4...Duren at 9..Dieng at 13...and Procida at 20...Alondes at 38



Just curious... how do you know Banchero is still there at 4, Duren at 9, Dieng at 13, Procida at 20 and alondes at 38?

And it's fun and all to trade up and down to target specific players but how do you they're still there? And what do you do if they're not?

[mo7888]

Just curious... how do you know Banchero is still there at 4, Duren at 9, Dieng at 13, Procida at 20 and alondes at 38?

And it's fun and all to trade up and down to target specific players but how do you they're still there? And what do you do if they're not?

You don't pull the trigger on the trade unless he is...you get the parameters of the deal in place and make the trade when Sacramento is in the clock..

As for the other picks if Duren is gone take Dieng at 9 and Mark Williams at 13...at 20 of Procida is gone then there are several other guys in that range that would be attractive.

[Ariel]

There's always a risk in trading down, because even if you make a move contingent on the player you want being there, you have to first take the player the other team wants, and if your player is not on the board by the time the other team picks, the most you can do is keep their preferred player (who may not be yours).
Case in point: say we want to trade no. 9 for no. 13 + no. 15. Charlotte does this to get Duren, we do it to get Jalen Williams + Eason. The first thing that would have to happen, is for us to pick Duren. Then we wait until Charlotte is on the clock, hoping for our targets (Eason and Jalen Williams). If they're gone, the most we can do is not go through with the trade, but we don't get a draft do over: we're still stuck with their pick for no. 9 (Duren).
Scenarios in which trading down can be worth it:
1) The player you're trading away was your pick anyway
2) Though not being your preferred pick, you think there are similar value alternatives available.
3) You're about certain the worst case scenario won't materialize (letting go of a player you really want for someone you don't, only to back down later when your target further down isn't available).
In this case, I believe some combination of 2) and 3) could apply. To be more specific, it could play out like this: suppose we're high on Mathurin and Daniels, but not so much on the rest. In that case you could have an understanding with Charlotte to trade the picks, contingent on your main guys not being there by no. 9. If Mathurin/Daniels are there, no deal, you use no. 9 to take one of them.
But if Mathurin/Daniels are off the board by 9 (seems like more and more likely) you pick Duren for Charlotte, knowing that there are only 3 picks till 13 (10, 11 and 12) and more than 3 players you like (Sochan, Eason, Johnny Davis, Jalen Williams, Malaki Branham), and you know some of them won't be picked in that range (Eason) and the rest may or may not (Sochan, Johnny Davis, Malaki Branham, Jalen Williams). So, worst case scenario, you take the 2 players you least prefer in that group, which would not be a big deal if players 9-15 are roughly in the same tier in your eyes.
This is one scenario where it would make sense to trade down, without paying too steep a price. All in all, it's definitely a leap of faith, but depending on the circumstances it may or may not be worth it.

[offset formation]

If I wanted to move to #4 I'd offer DJ straight up and if they bit.... sign Sexton (who'd look good next to Vassell)...move Poeltl + 25 to Charlotte for #13... draft Banchero at 4...Duren at 9..Dieng at 13...and Procida at 20...Alondes at 38

Sexton, Tre, Alondes
Vassell, Richardson, Primo
KJ, McDermott, Procida
Banchero, Dieng, KBD,
Duren, Collins, Landale

This ain't half bad, Mo. In fact I like it, though I'm not as high as most of the board on Duren.

[exstatic]

There's always a risk in trading down, because even if you make a move contingent on the player you want being there, you have to first take the player the other team wants, and if your player is not on the board by the time the other team picks, the most you can do is keep their preferred player (who may not be yours).
Case in point: say we want to trade no. 9 for no. 13 + no. 15. Charlotte does this to get Duren, we do it to get Jalen Williams + Eason. The first thing that would have to happen, is for us to pick Duren. Then we wait until Charlotte is on the clock, hoping for our targets (Eason and Jalen Williams). If they're gone, the most we can do is not go through with the trade, but we don't get a draft do over: we're still stuck with their pick for no. 9 (Duren).
Scenarios in which trading down can be worth it:
1) The player you're trading away was your pick anyway
2) Though not being your preferred pick, you think there are similar value alternatives available.
3) You're about certain the worst case scenario won't materialize (letting go of a player you really want for someone you don't, only to back down later when your target further down isn't available).
In this case, I believe some combination of 2) and 3) could apply. To be more specific, it could play out like this: suppose we're high on Mathurin and Daniels, but not so much on the rest. In that case you could have an understanding with Charlotte to trade the picks, contingent on your main guys not being there by no. 9. If Mathurin/Daniels are there, no deal, you use no. 9 to take one of them.
But if Mathurin/Daniels are off the board by 9 (seems like more and more likely) you pick Duren for Charlotte, knowing that there are only 3 picks till 13 (10, 11 and 12) and more than 3 players you like (Sochan, Eason, Johnny Davis, Jalen Williams, Malaki Branham), and you know some of them won't be picked in that range (Eason) and the rest may or may not (Sochan, Johnny Davis, Malaki Branham, Jalen Williams). So, worst case scenario, you take the 2 players you least prefer in that group, which would not be a big deal if players 9-15 are roughly in the same tier in your eyes.
This is one scenario where it would make sense to trade down, without paying too steep a price. All in all, it's definitely a leap of faith, but depending on the circumstances it may or may not be worth it.

There are no post contingent trades on draft day. If we decide to trade 9 for whatever, it’s a done deal when we pick for them at 9. That player is theirs, and we pick what is available at 13 and 15.

[Ariel]

There are no post contingent trades on draft day. If we decide to trade 9 for whatever, it’s a done deal when we pick for them at 9. That player is theirs, and we pick what is available at 13 and 15.
That happened in 2018 with Atlanta and Dallas. Atlanta had no. 3, and Dallas had no. 5. I specifically remember that it was stated that Atlanta decided to go ahead with the trade only if Trae Young was available at no. 5.
In any case, I don't any problem with agreeing with a team to a deal in the terms I laid out, delaying it being formalized until you get to the latter pick. If both teams are good with it, they go ahead. If not, they don't. The only difference is at which time you formalize the trade (in the case you mention by the first pick, in mine by the latter).

[JPB]

You don't pull the trigger on the trade unless he is...you get the parameters of the deal in place and make the trade when Sacramento is in the clock..

As for the other picks if Duren is gone take Dieng at 9 and Mark Williams at 13...at 20 of Procida is gone then there are several other guys in that range that would be attractive.

That would indeed make more sense than just trading down and losing 9 for 13 and 15 without guratantees you'll like what is till available... With 4 and 9 you have more probabilites to get solid players...

Problem is I really don't think those trades are realistic... As another poster mentioned, #4 would cost you Murray and 9 (or 20 in a rosy world). Same for Charlotte #13, no way Poetl + 25 would do it, not even #20 probalby.

[exstatic]

That happened in 2018 with Atlanta and Dallas. Atlanta had no. 3, and Dallas had no. 5. I specifically remember that it was stated that Atlanta decided to go ahead with the trade only if Trae Young was available at no. 5.

So, there was no deal in place until Dallas got Trae. What happens if CHA wants a player at 9 who SA wouldn’t touch? It’s not workable with two picks that you have to wait 4 and 6 slots for.

[Ariel]

So, there was no deal in place until Dallas got Trae. What happens if CHA wants a player at 9 who SA wouldn’t touch? It’s not workable with two picks that you have to wait 4 and 6 slots for.
It wouldn't be like that. No final deal is made until 9, simply an understanding. If your guy is there (Mathurin or Daniels), you don't go through with it. If he isn't, then you formalize the deal, pick their guy (Duren) and take your chances on 13 and 15. Also, there are only 3 picks to 13 (10, 11 and 12) and 4 picks till 15 (10,11,12 and 14).

[TD 21]

If I wanted to move to #4 I'd offer DJ straight up and if they bit.... sign Sexton (who'd look good next to Vassell)...move Poeltl + 25 to Charlotte for #13... draft Banchero at 4...Duren at 9..Dieng at 13...and Procida at 20...Alondes at 38

Sexton, Tre, Alondes
Vassell, Richardson, Primo
KJ, McDermott, Procida
Banchero, Dieng, KBD,
Duren, Collins, Landale

Sexton is an SG in a PG's body. He'd be a poor fit next to Murray because the physical advantages Murray has over most PG's would vanish primarily defending SG's/wings. He'd be a poor fit sans Murray too because his lack of play making would be exposed.

I'd have no interest investing heavily (asset wise, financially and role) in sub star small guard (coming off of a significant injury, no less).

[mo7888]

Sexton is an SG in a PG's body. He'd be a poor fit next to Murray because the physical advantages Murray has over most PG's would vanish primarily defending SG's/wings. He'd be a poor fit sans Murray too because his lack of play making would be exposed.

I'd have no interest investing heavily (asset wise, financially and role) in sub star small guard (coming off of a significant injury, no less).

I get the issues with fit w/o Murray but, I think between Sexton and Banchero they'd be fine initiating offense. As for Murray, I think he defends 2's and 3's much better than he defends the PG position.

[CGD]

Just curious... how do you know Banchero is still there at 4, Duren at 9, Dieng at 13, Procida at 20 and alondes at 38?

And it's fun and all to trade up and down to target specific players but how do you they're still there? And what do you do if they're not?

On Banchero there’s been recent rumors about OKC and HOU liking Ivey, which could all be smoke but still that’s where the Banchero at 4 probably comes from. Also some analysts are saying this is a “Big 2” class suggesting Banchero is probably more firmly in the next tier with Ivy and Sharpe.

On Duren, he is very likely to still be there at 9. It feels like 5-8 are firming up between mathurin, sharpe, dyson, and Murray, though, order remains unclear.

[BackHome]

Yeah, which leaves us with Duren, Davis, Sochan, Williams, Dieng.....for the 9th pick.

[CGD]

Yeah, which leaves us with Duren, Davis, Sochan, Williams, Dieng.....for the 9th pick.

And Griffin tbh.

[BackHome]

Griffon and Baldwin are two players and probably the only players in the entire draft that I would hate for us to pick

[rascal]

This ain't half bad, Mo. In fact I like it, though I'm not as high as most of the board on Duren.

I'm not too high on Banchero. Rather have Sharpe, Murray or Ivey.

[rascal]

Yeah, which leaves us with Duren, Davis, Sochan, Williams, Dieng.....for the 9th pick.

The 9th pick is where the draft falls off the cliff.

That's why the Spurs need to aggressively look to trade up a couple of spots.

[JPB]

The 9th pick is where the draft falls off the cliff.

That's why the Spurs need to aggressively look to trade up a couple of spots.

Lots of (serious) mock drafts include different players among the top 9. I bet you might not find your top 9 players in the actual draft.

[exstatic]

The 9th pick is where the draft falls off the cliff.

That's why the Spurs need to aggressively look to trade up a couple of spots.

That’s not even remotely true. There’s a “level” that extends 12-14 picks from the top 4. Somewhere around 18 is where the talent drops off.

[rascal]

That’s not even remotely true. There’s a “level” that extends 12-14 picks from the top 4. Somewhere around 18 is where the talent drops off.

Disagree after Sharpe, Mathurin and Murray the draft drops off. Those guys are at a higher tier than what comes after.

[mo7888]

Disagree after Sharpe, Mathurin and Murray the draft drops off. Those guys are at a higher tier than what comes after.

I agree that there's a bit of a drop-off after #8 as that's where me 2nd tier ends but, I'm curious who you have in that top 8...

[rascal]

I agree that there's a bit of a drop-off after #8 as that's where me 2nd tier ends but, I'm curious who you have in that top 8...

Drop off is about at 8. There might be a team that reaches for a player and either Mathurin, Sharpe or Murray falls to pick 8.

The Spurs will need two reaches(Griffin, Duren, Daniels etc) which is unlikely to get Mathurin, Murray or Sharpe.

[CGD]

I agree that there's a bit of a drop-off after #8 as that's where me 2nd tier ends but, I'm curious who you have in that top 8...

Davis, Duren, Sochan, Griffin, and Williams feel like the tier 3 guys spanning 9-13.

Then it’s an eye of the beholder thing, but probably a group lead by Deing and Eason.

[Mr. Body]

Davis, Duren, Sochan, Griffin, and Williams feel like the tier 3 guys spanning 9-13.

Then it’s an eye of the beholder thing, but probably a group lead by Deing and Eason.

Tier 2 is really rather large. Including those you mentioned, it also is some above 9 -- Mathurin, Sharpe, Dyson Daniels. You can't really make a case that any of them are much higher than any of the others. I would put Ivey and Keegan Murray as a sort of 1b. This doesn't account for guys like Branham who we've tended to ignore on this board but who may be highly regarded.

[Ariel]

Drop off is about at 8. There might be a team that reaches for a player and either Mathurin, Sharpe or Murray falls to pick 8.

The Spurs will need two reaches(Griffin, Duren, Daniels etc) which is unlikely to get Mathurin, Murray or Sharpe.
There's not such a huge drop off from you proposed top 8, at Mathurin's position you have Dyson Daniels, Johnny Davis, Malaki Branham and Jalen Williams who are about the same caliber prospect as Mathurin, plus Sochan, Eason and Duren who fit our roster better. Also further down the board you have Dalen Terry, Blake Wesley, Jaden Hardy, Bryce McGowens, many players who could reasonably end up being really good players. I like Mathurin, but I don't think he's that far apart from those other guys to warrant grossly overpaying to get him... in fact I'm more in favor or trading down from 9 to the late lottery to get 2 of those, like Sochan/Eason + Jalen Williams/Branham. That seems like a better plan in my eyes, when you have a glut of guys who don't stand out that much from each other, being flexible and doubling your chances seems like a good plan.

[rascal]

There's not such a huge drop off from you proposed top 8, at Mathurin's position you have Dyson Daniels, Johnny Davis, Malaki Branham and Jalen Williams who are about the same caliber prospect as Mathurin, plus Sochan, Eason and Duren who fit our roster better. Also further down the board you have Dalen Terry, Blake Wesley, Jaden Hardy, Bryce McGowens, many players who could reasonably end up being really good players. I like Mathurin, but I don't think he's that far apart from those other guys to warrant grossly overpaying to get him... in fact I'm more in favor or trading down from 9 to the late lottery to get 2 of those, like Sochan/Eason + Jalen Williams/Branham. That seems like a better plan in my eyes, when you have a glut of guys who don't stand out that much from each other, being flexible and doubling your chances seems like a good plan.

Mathurin stands out to me as having a higher upside than those other guys. He isn't going to be there at 9.

The guys you want are not any better than the level of players the Spurs currently have on the roster.

[Ariel]

Mathurin stands out to me as having a higher upside than those other guys. He isn't going to be there at 9.

The guys you want are not any better than the level of players the Spurs currently have on the roster.
Oh please. Other than Murray, Vassell, KJ, Richardson and Poeltl, on a contender everyone else we have would be either a fringe rotation player or straight trash.
Pretty much any top 20 pick would be an upgrade over that. And Poeltl and Richardson may be on the way out. WE ARE NOT ONE GUY AWAY... and MATHURIN IS NOT A SURE FIRE STAR EITHER.

[mo7888]

Davis, Duren, Sochan, Griffin, and Williams feel like the tier 3 guys spanning 9-13.

Then it’s an eye of the beholder thing, but probably a group lead by Deing and Eason.

This is my top 2 tiers- I also think two or three guys from there 3 will go in the top 8 and knock a couple of these down to 9

Tier 1
1. Paolo Banchero
2. Jabari Smith
3. Chet Holmgren
4. Jaden Ivey
Tier 2
5. Keegan Murray
6. Benedict Mathurin
7. Shaedon Sharpe
8. Jalen Duren

[rascal]

Oh please. Other than Murray, Vassell, KJ, Richardson and Poeltl, on a contender everyone else we have would be either a fringe rotation player or straight trash.
Pretty much any top 20 pick would be an upgrade over that. And Poeltl and Richardson may be on the way out. WE ARE NOT ONE GUY AWAY... and MATHURIN IS NOT A SURE FIRE STAR EITHER.

That's what I'm talking about, those draft picks you want are similar to the top players and core of the current roster.

The Spurs need to add a couple of players with higher star power than what is currently on the roster.

[JPB]

"Not such a great difference" is already enough of a difference to value #9 over 13 and 15 to me. That's what can separate top players from good/great players, and a guy who'll win games and elevate you, or not, thanks to the 2-3 pt more /game or the 2-3% best at shooting/game he'll offer every night, and thanks to that even oh so slightly superior amount of talent he'll have over others.

I think we might tend to overevaluate that draft and start to see talent everywhere these last few days, falling in love with new guys every day... It's not. Beware of overexcitment and future disillusions... Let's stay real, objective and stick to what we really know about these players, and let's not succumb to hypes or pimping of all kinds.

Not like we are gonna make the picks anyway, right?

[Mr. Body]

This draft has the Trailblazers at 7 doing the trade-down with Charlotte for the 13 and 15. So at least some substantiation that the terms of the trade are about right.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10037673-2022-nba-mock-draft-how-3-trades-can-shake-up-the-top-10.amp.html