Jalen Williams - 2022 NBA Draft Prospect

[timvp]

Complete Jalen Williams scouting report and Spurs outlook (https://www.spurstalk.com/jalen-williams-san-antonio-spurs-2022-nba-draft/)


https://i.imgur.com/TVqaYwv.jpg
Jalen Williams
Age: 21.2
School: Santa Clara
Height w/ Shoes: 6-foot-5.75
Height w/o Shoes: 6-foot-4.5
Wingspan: 7-foot-2.25
Weight: 209.2
Position: SF/SG/PG

Strengths
+Offensive efficiency
+Passing
+Basketball IQ
+Length

Weaknesses
-In-game athleticism
-Quickness on defense
-Old for a lottery pick

Complete Jalen Williams scouting report and Spurs outlook (https://www.spurstalk.com/jalen-williams-san-antonio-spurs-2022-nba-draft/)

[slick'81]

Damn 7-2 wing

[Dejounte]

Here is a good read:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022-nba-draft-profile-inside-jalen-williams-wild-journey-from-mid-major-unknown-to-potential-top-20-pick/amp/

One of three children, you grow up in a household of accountability with your parents, Nicole and Ron Williams. They served in the United States Air Force, both having been stationed in Germany, South Korea, Japan and across the U.S. Mom a medical technician; Dad a senior master sergeant, who helped engineer military aircraft.
"As good of a family that I've ever been around," Santa Clara assistant Jason Ludwig says. "Unbelievable people. They're all about the right things."

…


You're scheduled to meet with 13 teams. Then two more want to talk to you. They want to talk to you because you're arguably the winner of the combine before you're even done doing everything in Chicago. How does someone go from Santa Clara to a first-round draft pick in 2022? They show up, don't dodge playing 5-on-5, and look good in the first game. Most prospects would be advised to skip the second game the next day. Teams ask if you're going to play again. Of course you're going to play again. The days of hiding somebody to give off that aura of having something special, that jig is up. Teams are now rewarding players if they play in the combine and play well. General managers want to reward the ones who aren't afraid.
"I feel like a lot of players for whatever reason decided that's not for them, but I sure as hell didn't fly to Chicago to not play," you say

[Dejounte]

While I would love for this guy to be the guy… things never happen my way.

So will just fantasize about this guy being a Spur until reality sets in and we draft someone else.

[tonight...you]

I'm straight up convinced.
Grab this guy.

[Twisted_Dawg]

While I would love for this guy to be the guy… things never happen my way.

So will just fantasize about this guy being a Spur until reality sets in and we draft someone else.

At 20 or 25?

[Maddog]

I was really surprised at his testing, he really doesn't look that athletic in films. Can't think of another player like that

[Cardinal]

What explains the discrepancy between the athletic testing and the lack of pop on film? He seems to play quite deliberately, with good pace, under control - perhaps this is why

[PhantomDashCam]

What explains the discrepancy between the athletic testing and the lack of pop on film? He seems to play quite deliberately, with good pace, under control - perhaps this is why

1530234943183257600

I posted this a few weeks back. You can def. train to improve with the right base which these guys all have.

Tre Jones also was a client here and he looked completely different in workout environments than previous film suggested. He’s for the most part, carried that to the NBA.

Jalen’s game would take on another dimension if he’s able to functionally incorporate this into basketball related skills.

If you pass at #9, doubt he gets past Cleveland at #14.

[Dejounte]

What explains the discrepancy between the athletic testing and the lack of pop on film? He seems to play quite deliberately, with good pace, under control - perhaps this is why

People are shocked when a guy like Curry can dominate the game because it’s hard to perceive skill and IQ trumping athleticism in the game of basketball. When you’re athletic, fast and know when and how to use it, that’s what separates you from other basketball players.

[Dejounte]

I’ve listened to so many draft interviews; I think it was this one where Jalen says he’s still getting used to his newfound size and athleticism:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3MDKLiOjF8CbDMhkntxNos?si=-9-4yrvXR0OSToCJ_sNgNw

[Dejounte]

Jalen shitted on the city of Chicago recently for having expensive burgers that are small and “don’t even have bacon” :lmao

[wildbill2u]

An extra long wingspan for a shorter player may simply cause him to leave knuckle drag marks in sand or snow. Romain Sato comes to mind. Wasn't he like 6'5" with a 7'2" wingspan and was released during his rookie season without ever playing a game for the Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

An extra long wingspan for a shorter player may simply cause him to leave knuckle drag marks in sand or snow. Romain Sato comes to mind. Wasn't he like 6'5" with a 7'2" wingspan and was released during his rookie season without ever playing a game for the Spurs.

Yeah, measurements are cool and all. Then you play basketball.

[Mr. Body]

Everyone would love to have Williams on their team. The question is where to go for him. To me he projects as a solid starter or great bench guy. He seems to be in the 12-24 range, with teams like Cleveland or Memphis prime to grab him. I don't think he's worth the 9 at this point.

[the golden era]

If Sochan is gone, this is the guy for me.

[Ariel]

Like I've been saying for a while, if possible trade back and get 2 players in the teens... that's much better value than reaching for someone at 9. In fact, I'd try my best to trade back from 9, and up from 20/25, to pick up 3 guys in that range... There you'll find Jalen Williams, Tari Eason, Blake Wesley, Malaki Branham, Duren, Mark Williams, etc., plus someone is bound to fall from the top 10 (one from Daniels, Sochan and Johnny Davis, perhaps). If we can't get one sure fire star, getting three starting caliber talents is the next best thing, and maybe even one of them exceeds expectations. This class is flatter and deeper than 2021, which is why I hope the FO doesn't fixate on any one guy, stays flexible and acquires as much talent as possible, which is what we really need.

[John B]

At 25 Jalen would be a steal. But I’d take Eason at 20 first.

[Ariel]

At 25 Jalen would be a steal. But I’d take Eason at 20 first.
Anything can happen, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for either...

[MultiTroll]

An extra long wingspan for a shorter player may simply cause him to leave knuckle drag marks in sand or snow. Romain Sato comes to mind. Wasn't he like 6'5" with a 7'2" wingspan and was released during his rookie season without ever playing a game for the Spurs.
FWIW was all league WCC.

I will ask.

[Seventyniner]

I don't think this guy will be available at #20.

[John B]

Not at 9. If I want a real two-way player, Davis is the best in this draft. What is the reason why Spurs would pick Jalen over Davis at 9?

[MultiTroll]

Romain Sato comes to mind. Wasn't he like 6'5" with a 7'2" wingspan and was released during his rookie season without ever playing a game for the Spurs.
Any chance Sato was just not down with the NBA lifestyle and wanted to be closer to home in Africa?
All while making huge bank (in relation to what he came from) and foreign league stars are worshipped.

Just sayin. I don't even remember him. He had a long and varied overseas career.

[objective]

An extra long wingspan for a shorter player may simply cause him to leave knuckle drag marks in sand or snow. Romain Sato comes to mind. Wasn't he like 6'5" with a 7'2" wingspan and was released during his rookie season without ever playing a game for the Spurs.

I think Sato was 6-2 with a 6-9 wingspan. He was a defender who couldn't dribble, pass, or shoot at an NBA level.

[TD 21]

As I've said with M. Williams, I'd be fine with them targeting him, but not at 9. Either trade back from 9 or trade up utilizing some combination of 20, 25 and Richardson.


Not at 9. If I want a real two-way player, Davis is the best in this draft. What is the reason why Spurs would pick Jalen over Davis at 9?

Bigger (more wing than guard), better shooter, better athlete (at least based on the combine).

[slick'81]

I think Sato was 6-2 with a 6-9 wingspan. He was a defender who couldn't dribble, pass, or shoot at an NBA level.

it was actually 6'11 and he was 6'5

[objective]

it was actually 6'11 and he was 6'5

6-5 is a fake news. Your wingspan is correct though.

My memory was a close on his height:

6-2 barefoot, 6-3.25 in shoes at the combine

https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/predraft_vitals_04.html

[slick'81]

6-5 is a fake news. Your wingspan is correct though.

My memory was a close on his height:

6-2 barefoot, 6-3.25 in shoes at the combine

https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/predraft_vitals_04.html

Yea im sure the numbers are fluffed. Dont really care about sato

[John B]

As I've said with M. Williams, I'd be fine with them targeting him, but not at 9. Either trade back from 9 or trade up utilizing some combination of 20, 25 and Richardson.



Bigger (more wing than guard), better shooter, better athlete (at least based on the combine).

Both are the same height at 6’5. True, Jalen’s reach is longer at 7’2 1/4 vs 6’8.5 of Davis. I don’t know Davis’ vertical. It’s possible that Jalen is the better athlete. But Jalen is not a better defensive player than Davis. Davis is one of the better point-of-attack defender in this draft, while Jalen tends to be lackluster in staying in front of his man. And while Davis’ 3pt percentage might have dipped from 38% from his freshman year, to 30% in sophomore was because he was taking more bad shots to carry the team. Still, Davis FT is at 80% and should be a good indicator that his shots should get better with better quality shots. Still Davis is a better scorer with more offensive repertoire, his mid-range is money, and gets 25% of his scoring from the line. Plus Davis’ 50/50 ball, leadership, and the dog in him.

Jalen might have the tools to be potentially better on defense if his potentials are reached, but right now, he is not better than Davis. But I’m not a scout, and I would trust Spurs’ better judgement on players upside. But I can’t agree with Jalen being better than Davis right now, not by a long shot.

[Uriel]

No. More. 6”4. Guards.

If he’s there at 20 or 25, fine. But at #9? :vomit:

[RC_Drunkford]

No. More. 6”4. Guards.

If he’s there at 20 or 25, fine. But at #9? :vomit:

He's an 6"6 SF

[TD 21]

Both are the same height at 6’5. True, Jalen’s reach is longer at 7’2 1/4 vs 6’8.5 of Davis. I don’t know Davis’ vertical. It’s possible that Jalen is the better athlete. But Jalen is not a better defensive player than Davis. Davis is one of the better point-of-attack defender in this draft, while Jalen tends to be lackluster in staying in front of his man. And while Davis’ 3pt percentage might have dipped from 38% from his freshman year, to 30% in sophomore was because he was taking more bad shots to carry the team. Still, Davis FT is at 80% and should be a good indicator that his shots should get better with better quality shots. Still Davis is a better scorer with more offensive repertoire, his mid-range is money, and gets 25% of his scoring from the line. Plus Davis’ 50/50 ball, leadership, and the dog in him.

Jalen might have the tools to be potentially better on defense if his potentials are reached, but right now, he is not better than Davis. But I’m not a scout, and I would trust Spurs’ better judgement on players upside. But I can’t agree with Jalen being better than Davis right now, not by a long shot.

You asked a question, I answered it. I didn't advocate for it.

I said bigger (a combination of height, weight, length), not taller.

[jjspur]

Too many decent players still available at 9, plus we need size. He's got great tools and someone I would seriously look to draft, just not at 9.

The spurs really have to take advantage of their earliest pick in decades as well as the rest of their picks. It may be a long while before we get to draft / trade this many picks again. Don't think this franchise has ever had 4 picks in one draft.

[wildbill2u]

I think one of the best write-ups about Jalen is in a piece by Cerebro Sports about 5 archetype wings in this draft. The title was posted in the general draft thread but I don't think many people actually went and read it. It is a pretty long piece but very detailed and informative once you get into it. The Archetype: Dribble/Pass/Shoot Wings - by PD Web (substack.com) (https://cerebrosports.substack.com/p/the-archetype-dribblepassshoot-wings?s=r) Really worth a second read.

[Dejounte]

I think one of the best write-ups about Jalen is in a piece by Cerebro Sports about 5 archetype wings in this draft. The title was posted in the general draft thread but I don't think many people actually went and read it. It is a pretty long piece but very detailed and informative once you get into it. The Archetype: Dribble/Pass/Shoot Wings - by PD Web (substack.com) (https://cerebrosports.substack.com/p/the-archetype-dribblepassshoot-wings?s=r) Really worth a second read.

Asking Spurstalk to read or research anything instead of the strict and simplified way of looking at mock drafts or highlight videos to form their scouting opinion is like asking a first grader to do calculus. You’re asking for too much.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://youtu.be/YD2nS5iW6Co

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I like him a lot and won’t be disappointed if we drafted him. I guess I was wishfully hoping we’d get taller in the off season.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

I guess I was wishfully hoping we’d get taller in the off season.

There's always Primo's growth plates ...

[slick'81]

There's always Primo's growth plates ...

just wait until he hits 6'5 without shoes :hungry:

[tim_duncan_fan]

More wing than guard?

Isn't he 6'4?

[Dejounte]

You guard players with your hands not your head. Jalen Williams’ standing reach is longer than LaRavia, Liddell, Mathurin, Harrison Ingram, Dyson, Kendall Brown, Branham, Agbaji. He has more than enough size to play wing.

and nobody refers to NBA players’ height without their shoes on. In the NBA, people will call him 6’6”.

[ragas]

You guard players with your hands not your head. Jalen Williams’ standing reach is longer than LaRavia, Liddell, Mathurin, Harrison Ingram, Dyson, Kendall Brown, Branham, Agbaji. He has more than enough size to play wing.

and nobody refers to NBA players’ height without their shoes on. In the NBA, people will call him 6’6”.

you guard with your head, feet and hands.

[wildbill2u]

Another tweener with great potential???. Dear God, not at 9. He has some nice athleticism and WS, but doesn't strike me as a first-rate offensive threat which we need badly. And we need a player with some better defensive chops as well.

WE need a starter coming out of this draft at 9. It doesn't look like there is that two-way All-star we'd all like to see at 9 in this draft.

Who would he replace among all our current roster. Our SF or our SG? Those positions probably aren't our greatest needs right now. The way Williams seems to be rising in the draft, I don't think he'll be there at 20, much less 25.

[SPURt]

I’d be penis pumped if the Spurs can grab him in the 20s

[Ignazzz]

Top #15 steady and ends with:
Duren/Tari/Dieng/M.Williams/Davis/Sochan
( teams needs without BPA moves)

imo 4 spots left before spurs for others or him:
Brenham
Agbaji
TyTy
Brown
PBJ
Jovic for stash
him
4/7 options

[Drom John]

Pelton's final stat only ranking has Williams 59th.

[rjv]

I think one of the best write-ups about Jalen is in a piece by Cerebro Sports about 5 archetype wings in this draft. The title was posted in the general draft thread but I don't think many people actually went and read it. It is a pretty long piece but very detailed and informative once you get into it. The Archetype: Dribble/Pass/Shoot Wings - by PD Web (substack.com) (https://cerebrosports.substack.com/p/the-archetype-dribblepassshoot-wings?s=r) Really worth a second read.

from the article: "The upside being that a secondary creator who is a high level shooter, that can make smart decisions, can attack closeouts, has comfort against multiple PNR coverages & can craft finishes with touch - is a very valuable piece."

the article also referred to a low volume of three-point attempts but pointed out that williams would likely improve this stat in hand-off PNRs (or pistol play sets), which the spurs do run quite a few of.

[John B]

just wait until he hits 6'5 without shoes :hungry:

Or 8’9.5 standing reach without shoes :downspin:

[John B]

Another tweener with great potential???. Dear God, not at 9. He has some nice athleticism and WS, but doesn't strike me as a first-rate offensive threat which we need badly. And we need a player with some better defensive chops as well.

WE need a starter coming out of this draft at 9. It doesn't look like there is that two-way All-star we'd all like to see at 9 in this draft.

Who would he replace among all our current roster. Our SF or our SG? Those positions probably aren't our greatest needs right now. The way Williams seems to be rising in the draft, I don't think he'll be there at 20, much less 25.

J-Williams is anything but tweener :lol. The guy has arms reaching his knees (a vision of smaller Timmy) :lol. He’s great upside potentials. He’s a great help defender with his reach and athleticism (7’2 reach, 39” vertical). But the thing that I’m concern is his ability to stay in front of shifty guards, which Spurs get torched a lot by athletic guards. My dog on this is Davis who is the best point-of-attack defender in this draft. The question is will Jalen pass him eventually? Possibly.

Another is Davis plays 100% both sides of the court every night, will dive for those 50/50 balls. Jalen, he has lackluster effort at times. My dog if Spurs are picking a SG/SF two-way at 9 is Davis, Daniels then Jalen.

[The Truth #6]

Both are the same height at 6’5. True, Jalen’s reach is longer at 7’2 1/4 vs 6’8.5 of Davis. I don’t know Davis’ vertical. It’s possible that Jalen is the better athlete. But Jalen is not a better defensive player than Davis. Davis is one of the better point-of-attack defender in this draft, while Jalen tends to be lackluster in staying in front of his man. And while Davis’ 3pt percentage might have dipped from 38% from his freshman year, to 30% in sophomore was because he was taking more bad shots to carry the team. Still, Davis FT is at 80% and should be a good indicator that his shots should get better with better quality shots. Still Davis is a better scorer with more offensive repertoire, his mid-range is money, and gets 25% of his scoring from the line. Plus Davis’ 50/50 ball, leadership, and the dog in him.

Jalen might have the tools to be potentially better on defense if his potentials are reached, but right now, he is not better than Davis. But I’m not a scout, and I would trust Spurs’ better judgement on players upside. But I can’t agree with Jalen being better than Davis right now, not by a long shot.

I still like Davis but have my doubts that the Spurs will pursue him for whatever reason. But in a sense, he's sort of like a DDR but who plays incredible defense. His footwork is solid, not great like DDR but he does model his game after him. And his old man post game is stellar, too. I'm not saying he's destined to play the modern game with layups and threes which would be ideal, but I think he will find a way to score 1-1 in the mid range and that in itself is useful on this team given our dearth of self creators. I'd like him to be better on offense in certain ways, but for the #9 pick, it seems like a safe pick and a pick with still more upside if he figures the NBA game out. Final thought: if the Spurs think he will be a positive asset, that has value in possible trades down the road to get an actual star if none of our guys gets there.

[Dejounte]

Jeff: You worked out with the Spurs ahead of the NBA Draft. How was that?

Jalen: It was really a one-on-one workout. That was expected from San Antonio. It was early and kind of in and out.

Jeff: Did you interview with any of the staff?

Jalen: We got to interview with coach [Gregg] Popovich. That was a pretty cool experience. Something I definitely didn't take for granted, but it was a good workout.

Now it's kind of up in the air with how everyone feels. I had a really solid workout. It was really cool to meet the whole [Spurs] staff and just go through that process with them.

Jeff: Is there a player on the Spurs roster you'd like to play with?

Jalen: I think Dejounte [Murray] is really the pull. We have a lot of similar metrics, and with our wingspans, and what we bring to the defensive side of the ball.

I definitely think it would be fun. That's who I would be looking forward to playing with if I were to become a Spur.

https://www.kens5.com/article/sports/nba/spurs/nba-draft-prospect-jalen-williams-on-workout-spurs-dejounte-murray-san-antonio/273-cfbd4d56-0947-43f1-9ab7-9bfa74343c79

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/9W_PE0cABn4

highlights:

he says with his growth spurt he’s able to palm the ball and catch it with one hand

he sat down with Popovich when he came in for a workout

Jerry West was watching him shoot during the Clippers workout

[Chomag]

I think he would be 1 of the steals this years draft but not at 9

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1535635648056524802

https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1535341966409482242

[BatManu20]

Ahh his parents were in the AF. So they’re familiar with San Antonio at least.

[SpaceCowboy]

I’d love to see this young man in a spurs uniform. If the organization thinks highly enough of him to take him at 9 so be it. If not, I really hope he’s there at 20 or they trade up to snag him.

[RC_Drunkford]

sounds like a Spur to me

[talkspurs]

Dont know if Charlotte would do this but it is kind of off the one that was posted earlier this year. spurs send 9 and poeltl, mc dermot to Charlotte for 12, 15 and Kai jones and Oubre. I would also try and get their pick for next year pick with some protections (10?) We could also make the stipulation they could not draft williams. Since we would be making the pick for them I think we could make this. this would give us the ability to draft williams and then someone else at 15. I would hope we would trade one of either 20 or 25 for a future 1st but I also see 5 players I want now. 5 is to many rookies to bring into camp next year.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/X5vRKyf2c6U

[PhantomDashCam]

His Post All-star break numbers are flat out ridiculous.




Games
Field Goals
Three Points
Free Throws
Rebounds
Miscellaneous


All-Star Break
G
Min
FGM
FGA
FG%
3PM
3PA
3P%
FTM
FTA
FT%
OR
DR
Reb
Ast
TO
Stl
Blk
PF
Pts


Pre-All Star
53
29:03
4.9
9.6
50.8
0.9
2.7
32.4
1.5
2.0
75.9
0.9
3.2
4.1
2.9
1.6
1.2
0.5
2.5
12.2


Post-All Star
5
39:28
9.0
16.4
54.9
1.6
3.8
42.1
3.8
4.6
82.6
2.0
3.8
5.8
5.8
1.6
2.6
0.2
3.6
23.4

[BacktoBasics]

He’s a great example why you stockpile draft picks. Eventually you’ll land a legitimate winning player.

[CGD]

He’s been fantastic. I still take Jermey at 9 though, and no way we was falling to 20. Looks like we’ve got something with Blake and Malachi but wouldn’t have been sad if they packaged those to get Jalen at one of those Knicks picks.

[RC_Drunkford]

I was very high on this guy. No surprise that he's one of the better players in his draft class, but we got great picks too

[John B]

Dejounte was very high on this guy. Good take. I was wrong with Johnny Davis and happily admit. But I'd still take Sochan over JDub. And I'm not sorry Spurs ended up with Malaki and Blake also.

[CGD]

Dejounte was very high on this guy. Good take. I was wrong with Johnny Davis and happily admit. But I'd still take Sochan over JDub. And I'm not sorry Spurs ended up with Malaki and Blake also.

I also got it completely wrong with Johnny Davis, but didn’t think Sochan over him was bad.

My wish that draft was for the spurs to have made a serious play for the 11th pick to get Jalen Williams or Duren, but I’m pleasantly surprised with Malikai at 20.

I think when they redraft the class in 3 years, each of our guys will be slotted higher than where they were picked.

[Maddog]

I know &#*+ about draft prospects but he seemed really intriguing and was on my short list.
I think I still go with Sochan
Sochan's 2 years younger, bigger and has a better accent

[objective]

I liked him a lot, wrote this about him June 5:


Jalen Williams is already the player that Spurs fans imagine Primo could eventually turn into, and he might slide out of the lottery.

Primo is just too slow and ground bound.

Knowing everything we know now, in this draft I think Primo is still a first rounder with his size. Maybe late first.

And I think it was true. For the Spurs also. At that size with that frame, Primo was the scrub version of Jalen Williams.

[PhantomDashCam]

I don’t think people should give up on their favourite draft picks for underperforming, that is until at least the end of their rookie contract.
Johnny Davis may still turn into a nice player. Way too early to make that call atm.
Saadiq Bey for example, has kind of plateaued in year 2 and 3 after a nice rookie year. Already traded too.

[duncan2150]

I don’t think people should give up on their favourite draft picks for underperforming, that is until at least the end of their rookie contract.
Johnny Davis may still turn into a nice player. Way too early to make that call atm.
Saadiq Bey for example, has kind of plateaued in year 2 and 3 after a nice rookie year. Already traded too.

Good take but it's hard for some to understand it.

[exstatic]

I don’t think people should give up on their favourite draft picks for underperforming, that is until at least the end of their rookie contract.
Johnny Davis may still turn into a nice player. Way too early to make that call atm.
Saadiq Bey for example, has kind of plateaued in year 2 and 3 after a nice rookie year. Already traded too.

JD can’t even earn minutes on the parent club. A top 10 lottery pick can’t earn minutes on a lottery team. That’s beyond bad. It borders on pathetic.

[BackHome]

Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342) was very high on this guy. Good take. I was wrong with Johnny Davis and happily admit. But I'd still take Sochan over JDub. And I'm not sorry Spurs ended up with Malaki and Blake also.

Yea have to give Dejounte props he really liked this cat so much he wanted us to use our highest pick on him he was that confident in his man. I still like Sochan just wish he would rebound better.

[BackHome]

Good take but it's hard for some to understand it.

Yea Sean Elliot is always going off on teams giving up way to early on a lot of kids.

[Mr. Body]

He’s a great example why you stockpile draft picks. Eventually you’ll land a legitimate winning player.

Historically, Presti is really poor at drafting outside the top 10, so he can use the extra picks.

[Mr. Body]

He’s a great example why you stockpile draft picks. Eventually you’ll land a legitimate winning player.

Historically, Presti is really poor at drafting outside the top 10, so he can use the extra picks.

[Ariel]

Also liked him, just not at no. 9. But I really wanted an extra late lottery pick to get him, Tari Eason, Duren, etc... ah, too bad.

[Chomag]

To think if we could of had this guy instead of Primo.
Yes I know different draft years but I'm wondering if the Spurs had something they could have packaged for the draft pick for him.

I guess those are just the risks that you take or don't take.

[Dejounte]

Drafting Jalen at #9 made sense to anyone who watched him pre-draft, and it makes even more sense now if Jalen continues his trajectory. The Thunder are justified for selecting him at #12, which very few people predicted, and would only be considered a reach if folks paid too much attention to mock draft positioning. If Jalen was the Spurs’ guy heading into the draft and had even the frame of mind most fans have about getting the most “bang for the buck”, then they probably would have risked trading their pick for a pick past the Thunder’s and would have missed out on Jalen all for the chance for marginal increase in value.

All in all, the Spurs appeared to have the upperhand again in their scouting as Sochan is blowing away anyone’s expectations so far and is proving to be a better pick than anyone would have guessed. Where majority was guessing they drafted Sochan because he was “Spursy”, in reality they saw that he had a higher upside than anyone could have foreseen.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

To think if we could of had this guy instead of Primo.
Yes I know different draft years but I'm wondering if the Spurs had something they could have packaged for the draft pick for him.

I guess those are just the risks that you take or don't take.
We can offer Oklahoma this year's pick for him.
Who knows, maybe they'll agree.

[Dejounte]

Personally, as high as I am on Sochan now, my view on him was that he had a high chance to be an elite role player with a slight chance to be an all star. If my view today was the same as it was pre-draft, I would select Jalen over Sochan. Knowing what I know today because of what Sochan has shown, that would be a mistake.

[Ariel]

Pre combine, ZERO people had Jalen Williams in the lottery. Including EVERYONE on this forum.
Post combine, LOTS of people had Jalen Williams in the late lottery - mid teens. Including lots of folk here.
Did many people want him at 9? No, I had Sochan, Mathurin and Daniels over him. That's pretty much the only difference. And I still don't.

[Ariel]

As for Sochan, on offense he's developing way faster than anyone anticipated, especially in terms of scoring. But it was clear he had promise as a playmaker and ballhandler, and could score close to the basket. His athleticism was underestimated, I remember posting some of the first clips of him here, excited about him, and the reception was generally underwhelming. He didn't look "explosive" enough, he wasn't a sexy pick. But he didn't come out of nowhere, he was probably the most popular pick around here by draft night. He's exceeding expectations, sure. But there was A LOT to like about him from the beginning.

[Dejounte]

Pre combine, ZERO people had Jalen Williams in the lottery. Including EVERYONE on this forum.
Post combine, LOTS of people had Jalen Williams in the late lottery - mid teens. Including lots of folk here.
Did many people want him at 9? No, I had Sochan, Mathurin and Daniels over him. That's pretty much the only difference. And I still don't.

Just want to point out the falsehoods in this post. If I’m motivated enough (it takes a lot to motivate me these days), I can dig them up.
-Had posts wanting Jalen in the lottery pre-combine.
-Plenty of folks posted about taking Jalen with the second first round pick, implying he’d still be available there.
Just chalk this up as a disagreement, not looking forward to an unpleasant back and forth on a Sunday…

[Mr. Body]

Drafting Jalen at #9 made sense to anyone who watched him pre-draft, and it makes even more sense now if Jalen continues his trajectory. The Thunder are justified for selecting him at #12, which very few people predicted, and would only be considered a reach if folks paid too much attention to mock draft positioning. If Jalen was the Spurs’ guy heading into the draft and had even the frame of mind most fans have about getting the most “bang for the buck”, then they probably would have risked trading their pick for a pick past the Thunder’s and would have missed out on Jalen all for the chance for marginal increase in value.

All in all, the Spurs appeared to have the upperhand again in their scouting as Sochan is blowing away anyone’s expectations so far and is proving to be a better pick than anyone would have guessed. Where majority was guessing they drafted Sochan because he was “Spursy”, in reality they saw that he had a higher upside than anyone could have foreseen.

Tbh not everyone missed on Sochan. I thought he should get consideration in the top five range. Not that I was pushing it, but did say he could easily wind up one of the best players in the draft.

[Dejounte]

Tbh not everyone missed on Sochan. I thought he should get consideration in the top five range. Not that I was pushing it, but did say he could easily wind up one of the best players in the draft.

Just want to clarify that my statements about Jalen is not to be confused with me saying anything about folks thinking or not thinking Sochan was the right pick at #9. He certainly was the favorite there but not to the point where he was the clear cut “above the rest” player over guys like Duren, Eason, etc which he is showing little by little now…

[scott]

As for Sochan, on offense he's developing way faster than anyone anticipated, especially in terms of scoring. But it was clear he had promise as a playmaker and ballhandler, and could score close to the basket. His athleticism was underestimated, I remember posting some of the first clips of him here, excited about him, and the reception was generally underwhelming. He didn't look "explosive" enough, he wasn't a sexy pick. But he didn't come out of nowhere, he was probably the most popular pick around here by draft night. He's exceeding expectations, sure. But there was A LOT to like about him from the beginning.

Let’s not give the entire board demerits for rascal’s terrible takes :lol

[objective]

Jalen makes for interesting debate with Sochan, but even more interesting to me is the glaring trash fire that is Tommy Sheppard's reign with the Wizards where he was promoted to GM in April 2019. Even if Grunfeld gets the blame prior to that while Sheppard was an underling, ever since has been crap.

2019: Rui over Herro, Cam Johnson and Keldon
2020 Avdija over Halliburton and Vassell (and Bane)
2021 Kispert over Sengun and Trey Murphy
2022 Johnny Davis over Jalen Williams And a lot more

Even with the Primo disaster, Wright looks better (he officially took over as GM July 2019)

[rascal]

Just want to clarify that my statements about Jalen is not to be confused with me saying anything about folks thinking or not thinking Sochan was the right pick at #9. He certainly was the favorite there but not to the point where he was the clear cut “above the rest” player over guys like Duren, Eason, etc which he is showing little by little now…

Sochan was the clear favorite at 9 by this board. I think there was a poll about it and Sochan easily won.

[John B]

JDubs is outperforming his pick at 12. But Sochan is still the best pick at 9. The question would be is should the Spurs tried to trade 20th and 24th to get a chance at JDubs. I’m happy with Malaki, and what Blake could be. But yeah, I would be excited to have gotten JDubs. That would’ve been a perfect picks Sochan and JDub

[emanueldavidginobili]

1632576417782288384 (https://twitter.com/nbahistory/status/1632576417782288384?s=46&t=xxdSOfGc5LSgxPgvuTlOMQ)
Kid has been playing out of his mind lately, enjoy watching him play. Shout out to Dejounte though. He nailed it on the head from the get go.

[CGD]

Yea Sean Elliot is always going off on teams giving up way to early on a lot of kids.

I get that, but Johnny Davis was already a college Junior by the time he was drafted.

[Ariel]

Just want to point out the falsehoods in this post. If I’m motivated enough (it takes a lot to motivate me these days), I can dig them up.
-Had posts wanting Jalen in the lottery pre-combine.
-Plenty of folks posted about taking Jalen with the second first round pick, implying he’d still be available there.
Just chalk this up as a disagreement, not looking forward to an unpleasant back and forth on a Sunday…
I don't recall his name being discussed before the combine, but surely me missing a post about him is a possibility, so if you link those posts of yours I'd have no problem admitting my recollection of events was inaccurate. I hope you'll reciprocate if the reverse is true.

[Mr. Body]

JDubs is outperforming his pick at 12. But Sochan is still the best pick at 9. The question would be is should the Spurs tried to trade 20th and 24th to get a chance at JDubs. I’m happy with Malaki, and what Blake could be. But yeah, I would be excited to have gotten JDubs. That would’ve been a perfect picks Sochan and JDub

People are going a bit overboard about Jalen Williams. He looks terrific. His combination of strength and speed is excellent, and he is truly savvy and skilled, especially as a rookie. But... um, take a look at his stats and actual production. We're not talking Michael Jordan, here.

I'll be happy to eat crow down the line, but Williams feels like a near-finished product. He'll get better, of course, and good for him, but he's showing everything he has in terms of a skill set. It looks great, but -- he's going to be an effective SG or off-guard for a semi-playoff team. A great piece.

Sochan's platform of skills is much wider. Maybe he doesn't activate them, but at his best he's going to do more than Williams can. He's also two years younger than Willams is at this point.

[John B]

People are going a bit overboard about Jalen Williams. He looks terrific. His combination of strength and speed is excellent, and he is truly savvy and skilled, especially as a rookie. But... um, take a look at his stats and actual production. We're not talking Michael Jordan, here.

I'll be happy to eat crow down the line, but Williams feels like a near-finished product. He'll get better, of course, and good for him, but he's showing everything he has in terms of a skill set. It looks great, but -- he's going to be an effective SG or off-guard for a semi-playoff team. A great piece.

Sochan's platform of skills is much wider. Maybe he doesn't activate them, but at his best he's going to do more than Williams can. He's also two years younger than Willams is at this point.

I said Sochan is the best pick at 9 bruh :toast.

[BacktoBasics]

Jalen makes for interesting debate with Sochan, but even more interesting to me is the glaring trash fire that is Tommy Sheppard's reign with the Wizards where he was promoted to GM in April 2019. Even if Grunfeld gets the blame prior to that while Sheppard was an underling, ever since has been crap.

2019: Rui over Herro, Cam Johnson and Keldon
2020 Avdija over Halliburton and Vassell (and Bane)
2021 Kispert over Sengun and Trey Murphy
2022 Johnny Davis over Jalen Williams And a lot more

Even with the Primo disaster, Wright looks better (he officially took over as GM July 2019)

Many on this board badly wanted Rui

[Mr. Body]

I said Sochan is the best pick at 9 bruh :toast.

That wasn't meant to contradict you, but agreeing and expanding my thoughts.

[exstatic]

Many on this board badly wanted Rui

Avdija, too.

[rjv]

i'm perfectly content with sochan and have no regrets about passing on any other player that was left on the board.

[The Truth #6]

I think people are forgetting that we still had Primo and a basically a team full of 6'5" guys and so getting another player of that height would have been have been a weird choice. If they had kicked Primo off the team earlier then Jalen would have made more sense, but if anything the team was so in love with Primo it felt like drafting Jalen would have probably relegated him to the bench or at least slowed his development. Of course Jalen is playing well now but Sochan was a smart choice at the time because he was of a position of need (for years) and still looks like a great pick. But yeah, I would love to have Jalen on the team also. Can't get everybody.

[PhantomDashCam]

To be clear, when I bumped this thread, it was purely to acknowledge how well Jalen had been playing.
This was never meant to be about who the Spurs should’ve picked in the draft, although I acknowledge now that’s how it could easily be construed.

I love to see how young players develop especially ones heavily discussed on this board and personal favourites.
Absolutely thrilled with Sochan as a pick. He’s exceeded all expectations as far as I’m concerned.

[CGD]

Avdija, too.

I still want Avdija lol

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Sochan wasn't a bust at #9 by any stretch.


That Primo fellow however...lost a year of rebuild drafting him.

[slick'81]

Sochan wasn't a bust at #9 by any stretch.


That Primo fellow however...lost a year of rebuild drafting him.


yea spurs character card bit them hard in the arss

[wildbill2u]

Isn't all this talk about a player who is lost to us and a draft that is way back in our rear view mirror kinda irrelevant. OK, everyone has had their say on Jalen. Now let's archive this thread and move on.

[John B]

Isn't all this talk about a player who is lost to us and a draft that is way back in our rear view mirror kinda irrelevant. OK, everyone has had their say on Jalen. Now let's archive this thread and move on.

ST is not over Halliburton either. The relevance is how Wright is picking these players, based on BPA, need, high character, big swing or what not. Definitely Sochan > JDubs. Halliburton >= Devin, although Devin still has plenty of ceiling. And there’s Sengun > Primo, etc. It’s relevant especially with the coming draft.

[Rocalcio]

I still want Avdija lol

The way his coach plays him might allow us to get him for cheap in no time.

[exstatic]

The way his coach plays him might allow us to get him for cheap in no time.

We don't need him. The track record of castoffs that are turned into anything meaningful is hideous, and we have too many picks to take him on as a project.

[NickiRasgo]

I don't recall his name being discussed before the combine, but surely me missing a post about him is a possibility, so if you link those posts of yours I'd have no problem admitting my recollection of events was inaccurate. I hope you'll reciprocate if the reverse is true.

There are people discussing his name here even at 9th but there's a hesitation since there's quite a similarity with Primo except with age particularly regarding his stock rising due to draft combine. I believe one of the reason why Primo was drafted high was due to his draft combine performance so it's quite concerning in terms of trend if the Spurs pick Williams at 9th even though given a chance it wasn't a bad pick.

I'll still pick Sochan over Williams due to age and team's need at 9th - it's a lottery anyways, no one knows until the season started so it's a wait and see. It's not like the Spurs picked Davis at 9th tho too early to tell. Not every team can hit a lotto during draft but I don't think the Spurs did a poor job getting those players. Sure they picked Vassell over Haliburton and Primo over Sengun but if those latter names didn't translated well in the NBA, Spurs will be praised for dodging a bullet on those players. I'm a bit moving away from the topic but point is, can't always hit a lotto - just learn from it and move on.

[CGD]

Wonder who the 2023 Jalen Williams will be.

[Degoat]

Wonder who the 2023 Jalen Williams will be.

Lots of candidates tbh, my first guess would be Taylor Hendricks, but could also see Jalen Hood Schifino being that guy

[John B]

Anthony Black, big guard at 6’7” who’s a pesky defender with 2 steals avg per game. He can facilitate, and you know Pop likes defense and facilitator. He’s not shy to take risks hence his 3 TO’s per game, but those are the things you want your player pushing the issue. He’s only 32% at 3pt but once those improve, this kid would be a stud. Very close to JDubs imo.

[Mr. Body]

Lots of candidates tbh, my first guess would be Taylor Hendricks, but could also see Jalen Hood Schifino being that guy

Williams is already 22. People tend to think he was much younger, but he's already developed in terms of game and physicality. You have to pick a player who was at least a junior this year.

[John B]

High bball IQ this kid Anthony Black


https://youtu.be/FQ61exC472Y

[Mr. Body]

Anthony Black is my guy, but the compare with Jalen Williams doesn't make sense. Williams was an upperclassman many discounted due to his age. He's done well because he's physically strong and knows how to play because he played three years of college ball. That's not Black.

If anyone sort of fits the mold it's like Julian Strawther.

[JPB]

Every single FO in the NBA have picks they'd like to take back. Look up Detroit draft histoy the last 10 years. And others are retrospectively glorified for picking some future stars others passed on, but simply because that's where they had to pick guys they probably wouldn't have taken with a higher pick.

[exstatic]

Every single FO in the NBA have picks they'd like to take back. Look up Detroit draft histoy the last 10 years. And others are retrospectively glorified for picking some future stars others passed on, but simply because that's where they had to pick guys they probably wouldn't have taken with a higher pick.

Washington is awful, worse than Detroit. Picking Johnny Davis, Avdija, and Rui with their last 3 lotto picks.

[Degoat]

Williams is already 22. People tend to think he was much younger, but he's already developed in terms of game and physicality. You have to pick a player who was at least a junior this year.

Who said you make the rules? Lmao the question was who’s this years Jalen Williams, age doesn’t matter

[exstatic]

Who said you make the rules? Lmao the question was who’s this years Jalen Williams, age doesn’t matter

Actually, it does. Older players tend to come into the league more ready to play, and further along their development curve. As wowed as people are by him, there probably isn't a ton of development left. Teams penalize older players in the draft for just this reason. Last season, Chris Duarte of Indy was the shit. He dropped off the map in year two. Same thing. Older player drafted in the teens.

[Mr. Body]

Who said you make the rules? Lmao the question was who’s this years Jalen Williams, age doesn’t matter

If you just want to compare random players, go ahead. If you want to figure out what made Jalen Williams special this year, then do that. And he was special because he was a three year player who was somewhat overlooked and did well his first year.

I mean, if you want to compare by last names or whether they look funny or like Cajun food, do whatever the fuck you want. But if you want to compare players, saying "Anthony Black!" like that has any fucking meaning is stupid. Because they're not alike. But go on with your bad self.

[Mr. Body]

Actually, it does. Older players tend to come into the league more ready to play, and further along their development curve. As wowed as people are by him, there probably isn't a ton of development left. Teams penalize older players in the draft for just this reason. Last season, Chris Duarte of Indy was the shit. He dropped off the map in year two. Same thing. Older player drafted in the teens.

Yeah, thanks. Point is comparing Williams to some random freshman makes no sense. "Who is this year's upperclassman who contributes because he's further along? Oh, I know, this nineteen year old freshman! Whose game is nothing like his!"

It was Chris Duarte at one point. You could say Derrick White. If you want to find points of comparison, then you've gotta... you know... find points of comparison.

[rascal]

Actually, it does. Older players tend to come into the league more ready to play, and further along their development curve. As wowed as people are by him, there probably isn't a ton of development left. Teams penalize older players in the draft for just this reason. Last season, Chris Duarte of Indy was the shit. He dropped off the map in year two. Same thing. Older player drafted in the teens.

That's entirely a different topic.

He's talking about a player who is mid to late first round draft pick who will out perform his draft position.

[exstatic]

That's entirely a different topic.

He's talking about a player who is mid to late first round draft pick who will out perform his draft position.

That player outperformed because he was drafted at the Junior level and at 21, not a raw 19 year old. Duarte did the same thing, except he was 23. White was much the same at 22. You act like you can disconnect the advanced age from the advanced skill set. They’re one and the same.

[Mr. Body]

That's entirely a different topic.

He's talking about a player who is mid to late first round draft pick who will out perform his draft position.

That doesn't even make sense. Just say Malaki Branham. Who is this year's Malaki Branham? Jalen Williams was pick 12. Was he really outperforming what you'd expect out of that pick? Who is this year's Herb Jones? Who is this year's Keldon Johnson? Who is this year's Batum? There are almost always players who do well later in the first round. And no one would be totally surprised if Black does well. If anything, he might be drafted too high and disappoint. But no one will say "Where'd he come from?"

If you want to talk Jalen Williams, then talk about what made him unusual as a prospect. Otherwise you're just picking different players and saying "They both play basketball."

EDIT: I guess you could say there's a Jalen Williams - Tyler Herro - Devin Booker type who gets picked at 12 or 13 who should have been picked much earlier (and may be a dynamic scoring type). In that case, it's probably Cason Wallace or maybe Keyonte George.

[Degoat]

That doesn't even make sense. Just say Malaki Branham. Who is this year's Malaki Branham? Jalen Williams was pick 12. Was he really outperforming what you'd expect out of that pick? Who is this year's Herb Jones? Who is this year's Keldon Johnson? Who is this year's Batum? There are almost always players who do well later in the first round. And no one would be totally surprised if Black does well. If anything, he might be drafted too high and disappoint. But no one will say "Where'd he come from?"

If you want to talk Jalen Williams, then talk about what made him unusual as a prospect. Otherwise you're just picking different players and saying "They both play basketball."

EDIT: I guess you could say there's a Jalen Williams - Tyler Herro - Devin Booker type who gets picked at 12 or 13 who should have been picked much earlier (and may be a dynamic scoring type). In that case, it's probably Cason Wallace or maybe Keyonte George.


Your argument on age is pointless to obess over, everyone is on a different timeline in their development it doesn’t matter if they’re 18 or 23. I’m saying that a guy who could rise up the draftboards and be the surprise of the draft like Williams was this year. It has nothing to do with their age.

[cd98]

Sochan wasn't a bust at #9 by any stretch.


That Primo fellow however...lost a year of rebuild drafting him.

Hey, don't be so tough on Primo. The Spurs liked him a lot for his confidence when they drafted him. And if there is one thing we can all agree, the dude did have balls and he wasn't afraid to show them.

[exstatic]

Your argument on age is pointless to obess over, everyone is on a different timeline in their development it doesn’t matter if they’re 18 or 23. I’m saying that a guy who could rise up the draftboards and be the surprise of the draft like Williams was this year. It has nothing to do with their age.

That's not even remotely true. Of the projected FRPs on TaT, only 9 out of 30 are older than 19. Go to the second round, and 21 out of 28 (2 picks forfeited) are over 19. That's not a fucking accident or a coincidence.

[The Truth #6]

Hey, don't be so tough on Primo. The Spurs liked him a lot for his confidence when they drafted him. And if there is one thing we can all agree, the dude did have balls and he wasn't afraid to show them.

Very true. In contrast, Kobe waited until he was an All Star before he was publicly known for abusing women. Primo thought he could jump the line. You have to be a star first, then you can get away with bullshit and still be lionized. That’s America.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Hey, don't be so tough on Primo. The Spurs liked him a lot for his confidence when they drafted him. And if there is one thing we can all agree, the dude did have balls and he wasn't afraid to show them.

Good point! :tu

[CGD]

Williams is already 22. People tend to think he was much younger, but he's already developed in terms of game and physicality. You have to pick a player who was at least a junior this year.

I didn’t realize he was that much older. Makes more sense why he dropped.

[Ariel]

I didn’t realize he was that much older. Makes more sense why he dropped.
He wasn't that old, by draft time he was 21 years and 2 months. For reference, by the time of this year's draft, Brandon Miller will be 20 years and 7 months and the Thompson twins will be 20 years and 5 months.

[exstatic]

He wasn't that old, by draft time he was 21 years and 2 months. For reference, by the time of this year's draft, Brandon Miller will be 20 years and 7 months and the Thompson twins will be 20 years and 5 months.

Thompson twins are bashed for just that reason, 20 yar olds playing against HS players. They’re the twin versions of Sharpe in this years draft.

I already posted this, but there are 9 players older than 19 on TaT’s FR mock, and 21 players 19 and under. Age makes a difference in perceived remaining upside.

[The Truth #6]

I didn’t realize he was that much older. Makes more sense why he dropped.

I didn’t think he dropped in general, much less because of age. He was relatively unknown and actually shot up the sraft boards towards the end. To me, the question was: maybe he’s actually better than we thought?

[Ariel]

Thompson twins are bashed for just that reason, 20 yar olds playing against HS players. They’re the twin versions of Sharpe in this years draft.

I already posted this, but there are 9 players older than 19 on TaT’s FR mock, and 21 players 19 and under. Age makes a difference in perceived remaining upside.
But that's the problem, that they're 20 year olds playing against guys 2-3 years younger that do not challenge them, meaning that 1) you can't trust their production and 2) their development stagnates. Jalen Williams may have been older but he kept developing and there's no reason to believe he's done improving. For instance, Steph Curry was 21 years and 3 months when drafted. Desmond Bane, Jimmy Butler, Pascal Siakam were well over 22 by the start of their first season, and developed dramatically. Also there's plenty of 18 and 19 year olds who never develop at all. Being younger may give you a broad estimate of where a player stands in terms of his development, but reading too much into it may be as harmful as disregarding it completely.