Political Movie Review - What is a Woman?

[Will Hunting]

Objectively, this was a very well done movie that liberals should watch to realize how out of control the trans ideology shit has gotten.

Matt Walsh is a very talented interviewer and he was smart to keep his religious beliefs out of the movie.

8.5/10, highly recommend. Biggest criticism is it could have been longer to include more content.

https://www.dailysignal.com/wp-content/uploads/mattwalsh2.jpg

[ElNono]

Thanks. What's the ratio of gotcha to actual honest broker questions in the film, tbh?

Also, is there an appeal to "truth" instead of "god"? That's one way conservatives pretend not to cajole religion in, but it's always pretty obvious.

[Will Hunting]

Thanks. What's the ratio of gotcha to actual honest broker questions in the film, tbh?

Also, is there an appeal to "truth" instead of "god"? That's one way conservatives pretend not to cajole religion in, but it's always pretty obvious.
Full disclosure is that I've thought the gender ideology stuff was out of control before the movie so maybe I'm biased, but I thought the questions he asked were open ended and fair.

FFS, he literally spends the whole movie asking "What is a woman?" and doesn't get a coherent answer from any of the trans activists :lol

[SnakeBoy]

I haven't watched because I'm not subscribing to daily wire. Is it available elsewhere?

I saw this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdDB8wU73NA

For the most part it looks like he just let the chick speak and show how nuts she is

[Will Hunting]

I haven't watched because I'm not subscribing to daily wire. Is it available elsewhere?
No but I bought a one month subscription for like $12 and cancelled it after I watched.


For the most part it looks like he just let the chick speak and show how nuts she is
Half the movie is him asking open ended, innocuous questions and letting the trans activists/doctors go off about how fucking crazy they are :lol

He interviewed this freakshow who claimed to be a "wolftherion" who can communicate with wolves, and Walsh asked him with a straight face "When and how did you discover your inner wolfness" :lmao

[Will Hunting]

:lol this fucking scene

NOt4jsV59uw

[SnakeBoy]

No but I bought a one month subscription for like $12 and cancelled it after I watched.


Maybe I'll do that. Wife wants to see it. Honestly I didn't know if daily wire was a legit.

[Will Hunting]

Maybe I'll do that. Wife wants to see it. Honestly I didn't know if daily wire was a legit.
Yeah they made it very easy for me to cancel it, wasn't one of those online subscriptions where they make you jump through hoops to get them to stop auto charging your credit card.

It's definitely worth a watch. I'm by no means a Walsh fan, I probably disagree with him 90% of the time, but he did a great job with this movie. Kept a neutral tone and let the trans activists hang themselves.

[Blake]

I bet I watch it and end up with the same question myself: who cares?

[koriwhat]

Thanks. What's the ratio of gotcha to actual honest broker questions in the film, tbh?

Also, is there an appeal to "truth" instead of "god"? That's one way conservatives pretend not to cajole religion in, but it's always pretty obvious.

Why don't you just watch it instead of crying about it? Can't take a different POV or better yet the morons in this film totally exposing how fragile their bs ideology/agenda is?

Watch it and you'll realize all MW does is let the losers speak and dig their own holes. Same shit LibsOfTikTok did by pushing the left's bullshit to a wider audience.

[koriwhat]

Yeah they made it very easy for me to cancel it, wasn't one of those online subscriptions where they make you jump through hoops to get them to stop auto charging your credit card.

It's definitely worth a watch. I'm by no means a Walsh fan, I probably disagree with him 90% of the time, but he did a great job with this movie. Kept a neutral tone and let the trans activists hang themselves.

Walsh is great but he does push religion a bit much in his commentary. Other than that he's pretty much a common sense dude.

[koriwhat]

He interviewed this freakshow who claimed to be a "wolftherion" who can communicate with wolves, and Walsh asked him with a straight face "When and how did you discover your inner wolfness" :lmao

I don't remember where I first saw that "wolf" online but I was surprised to see that "wolf" in MW's documentary. It's always the 30+ yr old in cartoon clothing, dyed hair, and a make believe persona(s). SMH

[ElNono]

Why don't you just watch it instead of crying about it? Can't take a different POV or better yet the morons in this film totally exposing how fragile their bs ideology/agenda is?

Watch it and you'll realize all MW does is let the losers speak and dig their own holes. Same shit LibsOfTikTok did by pushing the left's bullshit to a wider audience.

I’m asking questions before watching the movie. Will doesn’t seem upset like you are about them.

You can sit this one out, tbh. We’ll call you if we need you..

[koriwhat]

I’m asking questions before watching the movie. Will doesn’t seem upset like you are about them.

You can sit this one out, tbh. We’ll call you if we need you..

I'm not upset in the least Nono. I just think you'd be better off watching it yourself so you can judge it for yourself without outside influence. Why are you so defensive especially over this doc?

[ElNono]

I'm not upset in the least Nono. I just think you'd be better off watching it yourself so you can judge it for yourself without outside influence. Why are you so defensive especially over this doc?

I trust Will to be a honest broker about this, or recognize his biases if he has them. I’m not a documentary fan, this the questions to avoid wasting time…

[koriwhat]

I trust Will to be a honest broker about this, or recognize his biases if he has them. I’m not a documentary fan, this the questions to avoid wasting time…

Wow you don't like documentaries? I wouldn't even consider this much of a documentary as much as it's a simple question posed to ideologues who are so ingrained in the destruction of our institutions, language, and culture.

I wish I had a link for you but unfortunately I don't. MW simply lets these people dig their own graves per se.

[Dirks_Finale]

No but I bought a one month subscription for like $12 and cancelled it after I watched.


Half the movie is him asking open ended, innocuous questions and letting the trans activists/doctors go off about how fucking crazy they are :lol

He interviewed this freakshow who claimed to be a "wolftherion" who can communicate with wolves, and Walsh asked him with a straight face "When and how did you discover your inner wolfness" :lmao

:lol

[SnakeBoy]

I'm not upset in the least Nono. I just think you'd be better off watching it yourself so you can judge it for yourself without outside influence. Why are you so defensive especially over this doc?

You can't talk to El Nono anymore

Trump broke him

He's just pissy El RandomGuy all the time now

[Blake]

I'm not upset in the least Nono.

:lol

[TSA]

I bet I watch it and end up with the same question myself: who cares?

And then it happened a second time, and then a third. Before you knew it you were authoring an infamous thread on Spurstalk that you’d forever regret.

[DMC]

Full disclosure is that I've thought the gender ideology stuff was out of control before the movie so maybe I'm biased, but I thought the questions he asked were open ended and fair.

FFS, he literally spends the whole movie asking "What is a woman?" and doesn't get a coherent answer from any of the trans activists :lol

I feel like it's a bit over the top (the ideology) but I also feel like decades of repression led to it and that it will self correct.

[DMC]

You can't talk to El Nono anymore

Trump broke him

He's just pissy El RandomGuy all the time now
I think it's a target rich environment and El is in full blown troll/salt collection mode. Having a real discussion here often means not going for obvious gotcha responses but that's damn near impossible. I am not an exception.

[DMC]

I haven't watched because I'm not subscribing to daily wire. Is it available elsewhere?

I saw this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdDB8wU73NA

For the most part it looks like he just let the chick speak and show how nuts she is

I see this in a few different ways.

1. She's a bit fruity.
2. He cracks on Santa belief but thinks the exact same thing about the invisible god he thinks created everything and had a son who died so his dad wouldn't submit the entire of creation (humans only) to eternal hellfire. Santa is more plausible.
3. He confuses gender, sex and anatomy.
4. Not sure even many adults have a grasp on reality.
5. If the child grows up to be an adult who still believes they are female, then the adult can and probably should act on it if they can.

[Will Hunting]

Walsh is great but he does push religion a bit much in his commentary. Other than that he's pretty much a common sense dude.
Walsh kept religion completely out of this movie, one of the reasons I liked it.

[Will Hunting]

I feel like it's a bit over the top (the ideology) but I also feel like decades of repression led to it and that it will self correct.
I think it's purely a social contagion. There's no such thing as a "non-binary" person.

[Will Hunting]

I bet I watch it and end up with the same question myself: who cares?
I used to have this same attitude but I don't like the fact kids are being pumped full of drugs on speculation that they might be trans.

[Trainwreck2100]

No but I bought a one month subscription for like $12 and cancelled it after I watched.


Half the movie is him asking open ended, innocuous questions and letting the trans activists/doctors go off about how fucking crazy they are :lol

He interviewed this freakshow who claimed to be a "wolftherion" who can communicate with wolves, and Walsh asked him with a straight face "When and how did you discover your inner wolfness" :lmao


Maybe I'll do that. Wife wants to see it. Honestly I didn't know if daily wire was a legit.

i could send you a link where that shit is free

[DMC]

I think it's purely a social contagion. There's no such thing as a "non-binary" person.

imo no such thing as god but there are thousands of buildings all over the city that get occupied by people who believe otherwise. Never understood how religion got its own category separate from delusion based mental illnesses. The non-binary thing is just the next evolution of cosplay.

[Spurminator]

Given what you know about Matt Walsh, what do you think are the chances he would have put any coherent responses in the movie?

[Blake]

I used to have this same attitude but I don't like the fact kids are being pumped full of drugs on speculation that they might be trans.

Yeah, that's a rough one but it's not just hormone therapy. In general, I don't like kids being pumped up any kind of drugs.

On the flip side though I've talked to a few people who's kids absolutely need drugs to calm the fuck down.

So the question then would be, where's the line drawn? Or if we don't allow kids to have hormone therapy in this manner, then what age are allowed to think for themselves on it? 16? 18?



As far as adults go though, wgaf?

[Trainwreck2100]

I used to have this same attitude but I don't like the fact kids are being pumped full of drugs on speculation that they might be trans.

not only are they pumped full of drugs but the treatment they are using was meant for people with bad bones to keep puberty from developing too much muscles before their body's skeletal structure could support it. That's what they're made for not "gender affirming care" which means the studies for that as a treatment haven't actually been done.

[Nathan89]

Walsh has the fortitude that I'd love to see in conservative politicians. He traveled to Virginia last year to expose a school board. Then they limited the questions to only residents so he "moved" to the area.

This documentary was reported to get daily wire 100s of thousands of subscribers. Several months ago I heard they had 700k subs. If those numbers are accurate then that's a massive success.

Film critics refusing to critique the movie is just as exposing to the left as the actual content of the movie.

[Blake]

Walsh has the fortitude that I'd love to see in conservative politicians. He traveled to Virginia last year to expose a school board. Then they limited the questions to only residents so he "moved" to the area.

This documentary was reported to get daily wire 100s of thousands of subscribers. Several months ago I heard they had 700k subs. If those numbers are accurate then that's a massive success.

Film critics refusing to critique the movie is just as exposing to the left as the actual content of the movie.

Nathan loves this guy and this movie? No way!

[Will Hunting]

Yeah, that's a rough one but it's not just hormone therapy. In general, I don't like kids being pumped up any kind of drugs.

”just hormone therapy” means giving 12 year old boys the same drugs that are used to chemically castrate sex offenders + drugs that destroy bone density so badly that they have an otherwise healthy 16 year old girl osteoporosis.

[Nathan89]

Given what you know about Matt Walsh, what do you think are the chances he would have put any coherent responses in the movie?

More likely than most people tbh

[Will Hunting]

Given what you know about Matt Walsh, what do you think are the chances he would have put any coherent responses in the movie?
That’d be a fair point except the people he interviewed sounded about the same as every other incoherent trans activist I’ve ever heard…it’s not like they were particularly dumb compared to other mongoloids who use they/them pronouns.

[DMC]

That’d be a fair point except the people he interviewed sounded about the same as every other incoherent trans activist I’ve ever heard…it’s not like they were particularly dumb compared to other mongoloids who use they/them pronouns.

You notice they are never attractive so it doesn't matter if they were male or female.

[Blake]

”just hormone therapy” means giving 12 year old boys the same drugs that are used to chemically castrate sex offenders + drugs that destroy bone density so badly that they have an otherwise healthy 16 year old girl osteoporosis.

Is this what you're referring to or something more?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075

[Nathan89]

1535735765061074944

[Blake]

Nathan called it a hit before he watched the movie

[Spurminator]

That’d be a fair point except the people he interviewed sounded about the same as every other incoherent trans activist I’ve ever heard…it’s not like they were particularly dumb compared to other mongoloids who use they/them pronouns.

Cool so you've got a Daily Wire troll and validating anecdotes.

I have my own questions and concerns when it comes to gender therapy, especially with kids, but I'll probably skip this one.

[Spurminator]

Like, did you learn anything, or did you just validate your own biases and experiences? This is conservative media 101. Surprised to see you fall for it tbh.

[Trainwreck2100]

Is this what you're referring to or something more?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075

if you ask a doctor what those treatments mean for long term fertility the answer is "we don't know". And yes it affects bone density because the drugs are designed for people who already had low bone density. They were never meant for healthy kids

[Nathan89]

Like, did you learn anything, or did you just validate your own biases and experiences? This is conservative media 101. Surprised to see you fall for it tbh.

1532392581568638978

You are just trying to dismiss the work. The interviews provide insight into the magnitude of the problem. Even people that have awareness of the issues haven't seen interviews quite like this.

[Trainwreck2100]

1532392581568638978

You are just trying to dismiss the work. The interviews provide insight into the magnitude of the problem. Even people that have awareness of the issues haven't seen interviews quite like this.


"i love other people's kids"

yeah, he got that energy to him

[Blake]

"i love other people's kids"

yeah, he got that energy to him

https://pics.me.me/need-a-username-and-i-have-a-great-one-little-27207253.png

[pgardn]

You notice they are never attractive so it doesn't matter if they were male or female.

I thought Bruce Jenner was on all these photos? Cereal boxes maybe?
Advertised for women, good looking?

Aside:
I cant watch this stuff if it gets into operations and taking hormones and all.
It personally creeps me out. Cutting and adding parts and then hormones.
Never ever could cut on a person and then they are asking to be cut... just freaks me out.
Same with the boob jobs lips and all the rest for women. Inject and cut. No way.

[ElNono]

You can't talk to El Nono anymore

Trump broke him

He's just pissy El RandomGuy all the time now

^^^ this is trumptard after Old Joe beat him talking... :lol

[ElNono]

I think it's a target rich environment and El is in full blown troll/salt collection mode. Having a real discussion here often means not going for obvious gotcha responses but that's damn near impossible. I am not an exception.

Exactly, I have two more years to keep fishing bitter Trumptards... and the river seems full, tbh...

I'll ride that for as long as it lasts.

[ElNono]

Wow you don't like documentaries? I wouldn't even consider this much of a documentary as much as it's a simple question posed to ideologues who are so ingrained in the destruction of our institutions, language, and culture.

I wish I had a link for you but unfortunately I don't. MW simply lets these people dig their own graves per se.

My time is generally limited these days, tbh, I used to have time to watch shit when flying and I might pick that up again soon.

But I like to watch stuff to disconnect a bit, so I rather watch an action flick or a classic movie.

[HemisfairArena]

Exactly, I have two more years to keep fishing bitter Trumptards... and the river seems full, tbh...

I'll ride that for as long as it lasts.

lmao,,,this is exactly what you democrats have become. As long as you can troll a Trump supporter, you dont care that the country is burning to the ground right before our eyes. Its petty and stupid but knock yourself out. Its why i rarely stick around to debate anybody on here,,,,its childish now with you democrats. Just look at Chump suckers responses,,,it almost always involves Trump. if you bring up crime today,,,he'll say what about crime under trump? No substance. No debating,,,its just a cesspool of degrading people on here,,,,have fun with that. I can tell you this, if repubilicans win the White House in 2024, i wont be on here constantly posting and trolling like you democrats,,,,if you need proof of that,,,,just look at my post count and when i joined. i didnt do it when trump got elected and i wont do it in 2024 or any time after that,,,,its a waste of time.

[ElNono]

lmao,,,this is exactly what you democrats have become. As long as you can troll a Trump supporter, you dont care that the country is burning to the ground right before our eyes. Its petty and stupid but knock yourself out. Its why i rarely stick around to debate anybody on here,,,,its childish now with you democrats. Just look at Chump suckers responses,,,it almost always involves Trump. if you bring up crime today,,,he'll say what about crime under trump? No substance. No debating,,,its just a cesspool of degrading people on here,,,,have fun with that. I can tell you this, if repubilicans win the White House in 2024, i wont be on here constantly posting and trolling like you democrats,,,,if you need proof of that,,,,just look at my post count and when i joined. i didnt do it when trump got elected and i wont do it in 2024 or any time after that,,,,its a waste of time.

:lmao the irony of this post... you can sum up Trumpism as "trigger da libs" and "democracy isn't working for us"...

[pgardn]

:lmao the irony of this post... you can sum up Trumpism as "trigger da libs" and "democracy isn't working for us"...

Is this the Foldren?

[south side spur]

https://youtu.be/mMBzfUj5zsg

[ElNono]

https://youtu.be/mMBzfUj5zsg

This is silly. You couldn't be openly gay back in the day without some serious social repercussions.

I can understand people that think it's overdone today, but let's not pretend we were socially where we are now back in the 50's.

[DMC]

I thought Bruce Jenner was on all these photos? Cereal boxes maybe?
Advertised for women, good looking?

Aside:
I cant watch this stuff if it gets into operations and taking hormones and all.
It personally creeps me out. Cutting and adding parts and then hormones.
Never ever could cut on a person and then they are asking to be cut... just freaks me out.
Same with the boob jobs lips and all the rest for women. Inject and cut. No way.
I'm not that old, cannot recall. I'll have to take your word for it, but Jenner won the decathlon. However Jenner waited until being old(er) to actually transition.

[Will Hunting]

Like, did you learn anything, or did you just validate your own biases and experiences? This is conservative media 101. Surprised to see you fall for it tbh.
I didn't know how destructive "puberty blockers" actually are.

[Will Hunting]

Is this what you're referring to or something more?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075
Yes.

One of the "puberty blockers" they're giving boys is the drug Lupron. Lupron is literally the same drug used to chemically castrate sex offenders.

That's not opinion, it's just an objective fact. I'm not OK with giving 12 year old boys the same drug used to chemically castrate sex offenders but you do you.

[Will Hunting]

"BiOlOiGiCaL mEn HaVe No AdVaNtAgE oVeR wOmEn In SpOrTs!!!"

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/McLaughlin.jpg?quality=90&strip=all

[Brazil]

:lmao the irony of this post... you can sum up Trumpism as "trigger da libs" and "democracy isn't working for us"...

:lol tbh

[DarrinS]

Being trans should be exceptionally rare. Most of these people are probably just gay. Why fuck up these kids with hormones and unnecessary surgeries?

[Dick Jones]

Yeah, you should definitely have to wait until you’re 18 to make such life altering decisions (in terms of changing a child’s natural biology. If they want to identify as another gender without the hormone therapy, they should feel free and safe in that choice). Anything less is 100% child abuse.

You would never allow a 13 year old to get a tattoo, but you’ll let him take hormones to change his sex? :lol

[pgardn]

I'm not that old, cannot recall. I'll have to take your word for it, but Jenner won the decathlon. However Jenner waited until being old(er) to actually transition.

Yeah.
Maybe just fame of being an Olympic winner in a very difficult event.

[Spurminator]

Yeah, you should definitely have to wait until you’re 18 to make such life altering decisions (in terms of changing a child’s natural biology. If they want to identify as another gender without the hormone therapy, they should feel free and safe in that choice). Anything less is 100% child abuse.

You would never allow a 13 year old to get a tattoo, but you’ll let him take hormones to change his sex? :lol

Generally I agree and it wouldn't be my parenting style.

That said, I don't have a child experiencing any kind of gender frustration/confusion and, as such, I haven't spoken to any doctors or any other real experts about it. The fact that it's seemingly only a major concern in the alt-right troll webisphere is a pretty big red flag to me. There are plenty of other examples of gross parental negligence that far exceed this decision between parents and their doctors, imo.

[DMC]

What doctor is an expert at being a child?

[Blake]

Yes.

One of the "puberty blockers" they're giving boys is the drug Lupron. Lupron is literally the same drug used to chemically castrate sex offenders.

That's not opinion, it's just an objective fact. I'm not OK with giving 12 year old boys the same drug used to chemically castrate sex offenders but you do you.

I don't know enough about it. Seems like a separate issue from "what is a woman?" tho, imo.

[Will Hunting]

I don't know enough about it. Seems like a separate issue from "what is a woman?" tho, imo.
Not really. The new gender ideology belief is that the concept of a woman is fluid and literally anybody can identify as a woman to the point where if a 12 year boy has a phase where his parents think he might be a woman, there are doctors out there ready to load him up with puberty blockers that fuck with his hormone levels and weaken his bone density.

[spurraider21]

Walsh is great but he does push religion a bit much in his commentary. Other than that he's pretty much a common sense dude.
"im a classical liberal but also matt fucking walsh is bae"

[ElNono]

Yeah, you should definitely have to wait until you’re 18 to make such life altering decisions (in terms of changing a child’s natural biology. If they want to identify as another gender without the hormone therapy, they should feel free and safe in that choice). Anything less is 100% child abuse.

You would never allow a 13 year old to get a tattoo, but you’ll let him take hormones to change his sex? :lol

I don't know about child abuse, but I generally agree with the notion of postponing stuff like this until they're adults.

That said, stuff like this can easily escalate into something more serious and complicated than that. Once something like depression enters the picture, it can be life threatening.

While I do think there's some overdoing of this, there's also some trivialization of the problem as well. I think the former will die down as part of any social fad.

[spurraider21]

1532392581568638978

You are just trying to dismiss the work. The interviews provide insight into the magnitude of the problem. Even people that have awareness of the issues haven't seen interviews quite like this.
this is nonsense though. the implication of this clip is that they perform bottom surgery on children. they dont. its illegal to have it done before one turns 18. there are some childrens hospitals that will treat patients over the age of 18, and it can be done there, but thats a far cry from what the clip is implying, and i can only assume much of the rest of the film is the same

its like saying disney california adventure promotes underage drinking because its a theme park mostly for kids but they also serve beer

[spurraider21]

:lol this fucking scene

NOt4jsV59uw
what is the name of the school that allows students to purr instead of answering questions and teachers are literally not allowed to say anything about it? or is the interview subject just going with a "i heard about this school on a facebook post" type nonsense?

wonder what you think about latest dinesh dsouza movies too? or do those not allow for confirmation bias on your end?

[MultiTroll]

1532392581568638978

You are just trying to dismiss the work. The interviews provide insight into the magnitude of the problem. Even people that have awareness of the issues haven't seen interviews quite like this.
What is the creature advocating?

[Blake]

Not really. The new gender ideology belief is that the concept of a woman is fluid and literally anybody can identify as a woman to the point where if a 12 year boy has a phase where his parents think he might be a woman, there are doctors out there ready to load him up with puberty blockers that fuck with his hormone levels and weaken his bone density.

Should have been titled "what is a girl?"

Followed by sequel, "what is a boy?"

Still seems like a completely different discussion than when a trans wants to be known by a particular pronoun.

[spurraider21]

:cry person with blue hair was very weird that means everything about gender is wrong :cry

[Will Hunting]

Should have been titled "what is a girl?"

Followed by sequel, "what is a boy?"

Still seems like a completely different discussion than when a trans wants to be known by a particular pronoun.
I'm fine with using people's preferred pronouns as long as it makes grammatical sense. I'm not going to refer to someone as "they/them" since they is a plural pronoun. The concept of "non-binary" also isn't buttressed by a shred of actual science and is 100% bullshit.

[Will Hunting]

this is nonsense though. the implication of this clip is that they perform bottom surgery on children. they dont. its illegal to have it done before one turns 18. there are some childrens hospitals that will treat patients over the age of 18, and it can be done there, but thats a far cry from what the clip is implying, and i can only assume much of the rest of the film is the same

its like saying disney california adventure promotes underage drinking because its a theme park mostly for kids but they also serve beer
What about underaged girls as young as 13 getting double mastectomies to remove their otherwise healthy breasts as part of gender transition? Is that fine?

[spurraider21]

What about underaged girls as young as 13 getting double mastectomies to remove their otherwise healthy breasts as part of gender transition? Is that fine?
you're moving the goalpost as the clip in question was specifically discussing bottom surgery

otherwise in my non expert opinion i think it probably would be a good idea for that to also having a higher age requirement unless done for medical purpose for the child's physical health. but thats just an off the cuff opinion. what if a child is otherwise suicidal, i dno. its probably a lot more complicated than i'm letting on, but higher age req seems fine imo

[Will Hunting]

you're moving the goalpost as the clip in question was specifically discussing bottom surgery

otherwise in my non expert opinion i think it probably would be a good idea for that to also having a higher age requirement unless done for medical purpose for the child's physical health. but thats just an off the cuff opinion. what if a child is otherwise suicidal, i dno. its probably a lot more complicated than i'm letting on, but higher age req seems fine imo
The suicide rate for trans people is higher after they get surgery, not before. It's a fabricated myth that top or bottom surgery abates the risk of suicide.

[Will Hunting]

Gotta love trans logic: "Oh she might be suicidal? Fuck, we better chop her perfectly healthy tits off to walk her off the ledge!!" :lmao

[Winehole23]

wokist pro-left handers are confusing children about which of their hands is dominant and making natural righties doubt themselves.


https://scitechconnect.elsevier.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/graph-left-handedness.jpg

https://scitechconnect.elsevier.com/rates-of-left-handedness-downs-and-ups/

[Millennial_Messiah]

Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032) is such a rare breed. You don't get many people who are very socially conservative but also very fiscally liberal and also white. Those are typically the older Hispanic generation. Those are also trending red because the Left has pushed the social left agenda way too far over the top in recent years.

Maybe one day people like Will Hunting will wake up and realize that the healthcare issue just isn't relevant enough to keep voting Democrat, especially since the Democrats haven't put together a competent public option / national health care system in the past several decades in spite of umpteen trifectas. And don't blame the filibuster because the Democrats never wanted socialized medicine in the first place. They want the current system to stay in place and citizens to pay more money to their insurance companies, big pharma and big medicine provider companies that donate enormous amounts of money to their political campaigns. The Democrats will always fight to squash any actual cures that come about in R&D for major chronic disease because they know it will put their feeding tubes out of business. The Democrats do not fight for better healthcare for the people. They fight to keep people from living over about 80 years on average in order to minimize elderly welfare payouts like Medicare and Social Security, as well as to keep people sick and reliant on their big donors' shitty products. They fight to keep the awful status quo in place, raise inflation, and continue the vicious cycle. Vote Republican, fix the economy first, god-damn-it.

[spurraider21]

The suicide rate for trans people is higher after they get surgery, not before. It's a fabricated myth that top or bottom surgery abates the risk of suicide.
thats just... not true at all :lol

https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-shows-transgender-people-who-receive-gender-affirming-surgery-are-significantly-less-likely-to-experience-psychological-distress-or-suicidal-ideation/

"It found that transgender people who had received one or more gender-affirming surgical procedures had a 42% reduction in the odds of experiencing past-month psychological distress, a 35% reduction in the odds of past-year tobacco smoking, and a 44% reduction in the odds of past-year suicidal ideation."

but yes there was this one paper from sweden years ago that people point to even though the lead author has said that their data has been constantly misrepresented and the study explicit said it was not an attempt to measure efficacy of treatment. not to mention, that study wasnt comparing pre-op transgenders to post-op trasngenders, it was comparing post-op transgenders to cis-gendered people. nobody ever said bottom surgery completely eliminates the suicidality gap between trans and cis people.

there are two main components why transgender people have increased suicide risk. one is the internal psychological/mental distress they feel internally. the other is outside pressure/stigma. its for that reason that the #1 factor that decreases suicide risk among trans people is not surgery, but strong family support

[Winehole23]

motivated reasoning, tbh

[Will Hunting]

Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032) is such a rare breed. You don't get many people who are very socially conservative but also very fiscally liberal and also white. Those are typically the older Hispanic generation. Those are also trending red because the Left has pushed the social left agenda way too far over the top in recent years.

Maybe one day people like Will Hunting will wake up and realize that the healthcare issue just isn't relevant enough to keep voting Democrat, especially since the Democrats haven't put together a competent public option / national health care system in the past several decades in spite of umpteen trifectas. And don't blame the filibuster because the Democrats never wanted socialized medicine in the first place. They want the current system to stay in place and citizens to pay more money to their insurance companies, big pharma and big medicine provider companies that donate enormous amounts of money to their political campaigns. The Democrats will always fight to squash any actual cures that come about in R&D for major chronic disease because they know it will put their feeding tubes out of business. The Democrats do not fight for better healthcare for the people. They fight to keep people from living over about 80 years on average in order to minimize elderly welfare payouts like Medicare and Social Security, as well as to keep people sick and reliant on their big donors' shitty products. They fight to keep the awful status quo in place, raise inflation, and continue the vicious cycle. Vote Republican, fix the economy first, god-damn-it.
I'm not socially conservative. I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and atheist. I just think liberals have gone overboard on this niche issue.

[spurraider21]

blue haired person said they were a wolf and were weird therefore liberals have gone overboard

[SnakeBoy]

So what is a woman?

[Will Hunting]

blue haired person said they were a wolf and were weird therefore liberals have gone overboard
Chopping a 13 year old girl's tits off because she doesn't like wearing pink isn't going overboard at all!

[Will Hunting]

So what is a woman?
TRANSPHOBE!!!

[spurraider21]

Chopping a 13 year old girl's tits off because she doesn't like wearing pink isn't going overboard at all!
the framing is just amazing. decapitating, chopping up, and murdering a baby because you are poor isnt going overboard at all!

oh wait you are pro choice, so you wouldnt use that framing there. hmm.

[spurraider21]

So what is a woman?
colloquially people have historically used the terms for sex/gender interchangeably. in which case when people say "woman" they often mean "female" referring to biological sex.

but more specifically, woman is a gender identity, based on social roles/norms that our society has typically ascribed to females. therefore whoever falls under that identity is a woman. in a vast majority of cases, females fall under that gender identity. sometimes they dont. people make a really big deal about that last part for some reason

[spurraider21]

Yes.

One of the "puberty blockers" they're giving boys is the drug Lupron. Lupron is literally the same drug used to chemically castrate sex offenders.

That's not opinion, it's just an objective fact. I'm not OK with giving 12 year old boys the same drug used to chemically castrate sex offenders but you do you.
thats such an emotional line of thinking :lol

lupron is also used as a treatment for things like prostate cancer. imagine declining treatment for your cancer because its also used for other reasons

:lmao dying to own the libs!

[Millennial_Messiah]

I'm not socially conservative. I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and atheist. I just think liberals have gone overboard on this niche issue.
I'm pro choice and atheist as well. I don't like bible thumpers and ultra bible thumping states but their votes and electoral college votes are a boon. (Just like you don't like queers or minorities but their votes are a boon to the Dems.) As for gay marriage I support the right to it but I also support abolishing "married filing jointly" tax benefits, not just for gays but for every kind of married couple. Everyone should file independently; no tax benefits for being married, and there should not be such a thing as "marital property" in a divorce case. Overhaul the family justice court system and give men (and women) a fair chance and the right to choose.

[SnakeBoy]

colloquially people have historically used the terms for sex/gender interchangeably. in which case when people say "woman" they often mean "female" referring to biological sex.

but more specifically, woman is a gender identity, based on social roles/norms that our society has typically ascribed to females. therefore whoever falls under that identity is a woman. in a vast majority of cases, females fall under that gender identity. sometimes they dont. people make a really big deal about that last part for some reason

So you believe a woman is a state of mind not a real world thing, similar to being native american

[spurraider21]

So you believe a woman is a state of mind not a real world thing, similar to being native american
i dont understand that native american part

gender is an identity. relates to social norms/roles/expectations

sex is a category we've come up with marked by purely biological and/or genetic markers

gender and sex are obviously interrelated as there's a very strong correlation between them

[SnakeBoy]

i dont understand that native american part

gender is an identity. relates to social norms/roles/expectations

sex is a category we've come up with marked by purely biological and/or genetic markers

gender and sex are obviously interrelated as there's a very strong correlation between them

Does a person have to make physical changes (surgery, drugs) to their body in order to change gender? Or is it a fluid identity based solely on the state of mind?

[spurraider21]

Does a person have to make physical changes (surgery, drugs) to their body in order to change gender? Or is it a fluid identity based solely on the state of mind?
nah, its a mental state. though some people suffer emotional distress when their physical appearance doesnt match their gender identity. this is what is called gender dysphoria (it refers to the state of distress, not every trans person has dysphoria). people go through those physical changes as a wait to treat the symptoms of distress they are experiencing

based on a quick google only about 10% of trans women have gotten bottom surgery, where something like 50% want to in the future

[ElNono]

nah, its a mental state. though some people suffer emotional distress when their physical appearance doesnt match their gender identity. this is what is called gender dysphoria (it refers to the state of distress, not every trans person has dysphoria). people go through those physical changes as a wait to treat the symptoms of distress they are experiencing

based on a quick google only about 10% of trans women have gotten bottom surgery, where something like 50% want to in the future

How about the emotional distress conservatards have when seeing a trans person, tbh? What's that called?

[spurraider21]

How about the emotional distress conservatards have when seeing a trans person, tbh? What's that called?
transgender derangement syndrome

think they've been calling it TDS for a few years now iirc

[Trainwreck2100]

I don't know about child abuse, but I generally agree with the notion of postponing stuff like this until they're adults.

That said, stuff like this can easily escalate into something more serious and complicated than that. Once something like depression enters the picture, it can be life threatening.

While I do think there's some overdoing of this, there's also some trivialization of the problem as well. I think the former will die down as part of any social fad.
That's because kids in school are dipshits, we don't give the poor kids money, we don't give the fat kids bariatric surgery and we don't give girls with body issues whatever the fuck you'd give them to prevent suicide. So why in this one issue do you pop kids full of drugs where we don't know the long term effects on fertility and none density. It's fucking assinine that the answer to prevent suicide is some invasive medical procedure instead of just standard psychological treatments.

Let's not ignore the fact either that kids are going through puberty so the mental imbalance could be from the insane amount of hormones running through their system

[SnakeBoy]

nah, its a mental state. though some people suffer emotional distress when their physical appearance doesnt match their gender identity. this is what is called gender dysphoria (it refers to the state of distress, not every trans person has dysphoria). people go through those physical changes as a wait to treat the symptoms of distress they are experiencing

based on a quick google only about 10% of trans women have gotten bottom surgery, where something like 50% want to in the future

Okay so it's really a Shania Twain type thing. Is there a length of time that a person has to feel like a different gender before they are a different gender?

[ElNono]

That's because kids in school are dipshits, we don't give the poor kids money, we don't give the fat kids bariatric surgery and we don't give girls with body issues whatever the fuck you'd give them to prevent suicide. So why in this one issue do you pop kids full of drugs where we don't know the long term effects on fertility and none density. It's fucking assinine that the answer to prevent suicide is some invasive medical procedure instead of just standard psychological treatments.

Let's not ignore the fact either that kids are going through puberty so the mental imbalance could be from the insane amount of hormones running through their system

But this is what I mean by being a more complicated issue. Kids in school also have peer pressure, they see somebody being edgy about this thing and want to be too. Some of these social fads fucking suck, but if you're a parent, you have to deal with them.

And standard psychological treatments for these kids is always the first step before anything invasive.

[SpursforSix]

But this is what I mean by being a more complicated issue. Kids in school also have peer pressure, they see somebody being edgy about this thing and want to be too. Some of these social fads fucking suck, but if you're a parent, you have to deal with them.

And standard psychological treatments for these kids is always the first step before anything invasive.

And don't forget social media.

[spurraider21]

Okay so it's really a Shania Twain type thing. Is there a length of time that a person has to feel like a different gender before they are a different gender?
really not getting these references. first the native american comparison now shania twain.

i dont know if theres a time requirement tbh. you should consult with your nearest childrens neuropsych clinic. though i dont think its common for people to wake up one day to an entirely different identity or sense of self out of the blue

[ElNono]

really not getting these references. first the native american comparison now shania twain.

i dont know if theres a time requirement tbh. you should consult with your nearest childrens neuropsych clinic. though i dont think its common for people to wake up one day to an entirely different identity or sense of self out of the blue

Old Joe broke him.

[Blake]

i dont understand that native american part

gender is an identity. relates to social norms/roles/expectations

sex is a category we've come up with marked by purely biological and/or genetic markers

gender and sex are obviously interrelated as there's a very strong correlation between them

You don't have separate bathrooms for native Americans where you're at?

[Trainwreck2100]

But this is what I mean by being a more complicated issue. Kids in school also have peer pressure, they see somebody being edgy about this thing and want to be too. Some of these social fads fucking suck, but if you're a parent, you have to deal with them.

And standard psychological treatments for these kids is always the first step before anything invasive.


Then use nonstandard psychological treatments, if we're going to use nonstandard medical treatments use nonstandard psychological treatments.

[ElNono]

Then use nonstandard psychological treatments, if we're going to use nonstandard medical treatments use nonstandard psychological treatments.

I'm no expert on this matter, but I don't think there's anything non-standard about the medical treatments. There's even a ICD-9 code (302.85 for Gender identity disorder, dates back to 2012) for diagnosis.

[Trainwreck2100]

I'm no expert on this matter, but I don't think there's anything non-standard about the medical treatments. There's even a ICD-9 code (302.85 for Gender identity disorder, dates back to 2012) for diagnosis.

Using drugs meant for castration and brittle bone disease for anything they aren't designed for is what I would consider nonstandard. Using ANY treatment on children without statistical backing for long term effects for "reasons" is what I consider nonstandard. Zero long term studies have been done with these meds for the purpose"gender affirmation"

[Will Hunting]

Okay so it's really a Shania Twain type thing. Is there a length of time that a person has to feel like a different gender before they are a different gender?
15 minutes if you ask your average gender activist

[Dick Jones]

really not getting these references. first the native american comparison now shania twain.
You’ll have to forgive his retarded Gen X Trumptard humor. Unfortunately for me, I got the reference immediately.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJL4UGSbeFg

[Dick Jones]

The Native American thing is for sure his unhealthy obsession with Elizabeth Warren, a completely inconsequential person who found a way to trigger the hell out of every Trumptard alive :lol

[spurraider21]

15 minutes if you ask your average gender activist
how long does a guy have to want to suck cock before you call him gay?

[Will Hunting]

the framing is just amazing. decapitating, chopping up, and murdering a baby because you are poor isnt going overboard at all!

oh wait you are pro choice, so you wouldnt use that framing there. hmm.
It's not, I'm all for murdering poor welfare babies.

[Will Hunting]

how long does a guy have to want to suck cock before you call him gay?
:lol answering a question with a question

[Dick Jones]

how long does a guy have to want to suck cock before you call him gay?
Plently of people experiment with sexuality when they’re young, and change their mind later.

[Will Hunting]

Does a person have to make physical changes (surgery, drugs) to their body in order to change gender? Or is it a fluid identity based solely on the state of mind?
When you're at Bed Bath & Beyond with your wife and she asks you to go pick out some scented candles, you become a woman when you enter the scented candle aisle.

[Will Hunting]

And standard psychological treatments for these kids is always the first step before anything invasive.
But that's not what's happening right now. There are doctors who meet with them for an hour and prescribe them hormone treatment without any kind of extensive psychological treatment or analysis as a first step.

I could walk into the doctor, claim to be a woman and get put on hormones with basically no pushback if I wanted to.

[Blake]

You’ll have to forgive his retarded Gen X Trumptard humor. Unfortunately for me, I got the reference immediately.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJL4UGSbeFg

:lol

[ElNono]

Using drugs meant for castration and brittle bone disease for anything they aren't designed for is what I would consider nonstandard. Using ANY treatment on children without statistical backing for long term effects for "reasons" is what I consider nonstandard. Zero long term studies have been done with these meds for the purpose"gender affirmation"

You cannot legally prescribe any of these medicines for children unless they have FDA approval to be used in children.

And sorry, but there's nothing non-standard about using the same medicine to treat different diagnosis. Generally, companies do decide to come up with a different brand name for different uses, but that's strictly for marketing purposes.

[ElNono]

But that's not what's happening right now. There are doctors who meet with them for an hour and prescribe them hormone treatment without any kind of extensive psychological treatment or analysis as a first step.

I could walk into the doctor, claim to be a woman and get put on hormones with basically no pushback if I wanted to.

I wouldn't doubt there are cases like that, but I do doubt that's the norm, especially because the doctor is putting his career on the line for something that, at least initially, is strictly psychological.

[Blake]

But that's not what's happening right now. There are doctors who meet with them for an hour and prescribe them hormone treatment without any kind of extensive psychological treatment or analysis as a first step.

I could walk into the doctor, claim to be a woman and get put on hormones with basically no pushback if I wanted to.

Not doubting you, I'm curious to read it, you have a link?

[Will Hunting]

I wouldn't doubt there are cases like that, but I do doubt that's the norm, especially because the doctor is putting his career on the line for something that, at least initially, is strictly psychological.
Are you really gonna pretend doctors in America jumping the gun on prescriptions without searching for alternatives first isn't a regularly occurring thing?

[Will Hunting]

Not doubting you, I'm curious to read it, you have a link?
It's literally what happened with my stepsister (now step brother).

Graduated from college, never had any thoughts about being trans before, then a year after graduation when her life was going nowhere, she decided that her failure to launch is due to the fact she's a boy trapped in a girl's body...it took her literally one doctor's appointment to start on testosterone therapy.

[spurraider21]

:lol answering a question with a question
my original response to the question


i dont know if theres a time requirement tbh. you should consult with your nearest childrens neuropsych clinic. though i dont think its common for people to wake up one day to an entirely different identity or sense of self out of the blue

[spurraider21]

Plently of people experiment with sexuality when they’re young, and change their mind later.
probably why people dont get sex change operations the day that start wondering about their gender identity.

its why younger kids are not put through HRT, but rather on puberty blockers if anything at all

[spurraider21]

It's not, I'm all for murdering poor welfare babies.
but you would never have a discussion about abortion rights and characterize the act as decapitating/mutilating/slaughtering babies

[spurraider21]

nono was talking about how they deal with kids, not an adult. you then said "thats not whats happening" and started talking about situations with adults

they dont put kids on puberty blockers on day 1


And standard psychological treatments for these kids is always the first step before anything invasive.


But that's not what's happening right now. There are doctors who meet with them for an hour and prescribe them hormone treatment without any kind of extensive psychological treatment or analysis as a first step.


I could walk into the doctor, claim to be a woman and get put on hormones with basically no pushback if I wanted to.


Graduated from college, never had any thoughts about being trans before, then a year after graduation when her life was going nowhere, she decided that her failure to launch is due to the fact she's a boy trapped in a girl's body...it took her literally one doctor's appointment to start on testosterone therapy.

people pretend their objection is ":cry what about the kids :cry" when really its just about not liking trans people in general and they use the :cry kids :cry as a shield

[Will Hunting]

nono was talking about how they deal with kids, not an adult. you then said "thats not whats happening" and started talking about situations with adults

they dont put kids on puberty blockers on day 1





[FONT=Verdana]

people pretend their objection is ":cry what about the kids :cry" when really its just about not liking trans people in general and they use the :cry kids :cry as a shield
So when do they start chemically castrating the kids? Enlighten me.

[spurraider21]

So when do they start chemically castrating the kids? Enlighten me.
same time they treat their prostate cancer

[ElNono]

Are you really gonna pretend doctors in America jumping the gun on prescriptions without searching for alternatives first isn't a regularly occurring thing?

When it comes to kids, there's a lot of other things surrounding them, like school counseling, which do their own referring to professionals or discuss with parents.

This is why I doubt it's the norm, but again, I wouldn't doubt there are some cases like you describe.

[Will Hunting]

same time they treat their prostate cancer
Giving teenage boys puberty blockers fits the medical definition of what chemical castration is, like it or not.

https://i.ibb.co/XSfDrfH/CC.png

They're being given Lupron to block the production of testosterone, that's the literal definition of chemical castration.

[Will Hunting]

Fun fact - the founding father of gender ideology was a guy named John Money who experimented on twins (both of whom eventually committed suicide from the psychological trauma he inflicted on them) and had them simulate sex acts on each other.

Reminds me of a certain Nazi scientist who did deranged studies on twins...only difference is that gender activists don't try to inflate his credibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money

https://i.ibb.co/C2D6V2m/John-Money.png

[spurraider21]

Giving teenage boys puberty blockers fits the medical definition of what chemical castration is, like it or not.

https://i.ibb.co/XSfDrfH/CC.png

They're being given Lupron to block the production of testosterone, that's the literal definition of chemical castration.
im honestly not concerned with the word used to define it. if they are generally safe for use to the point where they've done enough clinical trials to authorize it for use for people of a certain age, i'm not going to get in the way of the medical profession doing their job. as far as i'm aware, the puberty blocking effect is reversible. is there a risk for adverse effects? sure, same with any medication or treatment. but if the flipside is having somebody go through puberty in a way thats going to cause even more psychological trauma to the point of driving them closer to suicide, then perhaps thats something the medical professions should also consider

[spurraider21]

Fun fact - the founding father of gender ideology was a guy named John Money who experimented on twins (both of whom eventually committed suicide from the psychological trauma he inflicted on them) and had them simulate sex acts on each other.

Reminds me of a certain Nazi scientist who did deranged studies on twins...only difference is that gender activists don't try to inflate his credibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money

https://i.ibb.co/C2D6V2m/John-Money.png
yes and one of the guys behind mRNA vaccine technology said that covid vaccines are bad. and an early abortion activist was also a raging racist. this is truly conservatard level stuff you're bringing to the table. i think you'd enjoy some good dinesh dsouza documentaries while you're on this binge too

[spurraider21]

hmm heres a course of treatment/therapy which is generally shown to help people

YEAH BUT this one guy decades ago ago forced his patients to perform sexual acts on one another and traumatized them so its all bullshit

jesus christ... actual TDS

[Will Hunting]

hmm heres a course of treatment/therapy which is generally shown to help people
It's generally shown to help people because you say so :lol

[spurraider21]

It's generally shown to help people because you say so :lol
no, according to medical professionals in their fields of expertise

[Will Hunting]

yes and one of the guys behind mRNA vaccine technology said that covid vaccines are bad. and an early abortion activist was also a raging racist. this is truly conservatard level stuff you're bringing to the table. i think you'd enjoy some good dinesh dsouza documentaries while you're on this binge too
One of many guys behind the technology and one of many early abortion activists...Money is the guy who wrote the playbook on gender ideology.

Just curious, what percentage of the population do you think is legitimately trans?

[Will Hunting]

no, according to medical professionals in their fields of expertise
Sure, medical professionals making $70k/pop on every kid who gets affirmation treatment.

I miss the era when liberals were skeptical of Big Pharma's profit motive.

[spurraider21]

One of many guys behind the technology and one of many early abortion activists...Money is the guy who wrote the playbook on gender ideology.

Just curious, what percentage of the population do you think is legitimately trans?
nevertheless, its a basic genetic fallacy

isaac newton believed in alchemy and literally has more written work on biblical prophecy than physics but we dont use that as justification to shit on entire fields of discipline based on his work in physics?

what percentage? fuck if i know. probably very low. i can google it just as well as you

[Trainwreck2100]

thats just... not true at all :lol

https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-shows-transgender-people-who-receive-gender-affirming-surgery-are-significantly-less-likely-to-experience-psychological-distress-or-suicidal-ideation/

"It found that transgender people who had received one or more gender-affirming surgical procedures had a 42% reduction in the odds of experiencing past-month psychological distress, a 35% reduction in the odds of past-year tobacco smoking, and a 44% reduction in the odds of past-year suicidal ideation."

but yes there was this one paper from sweden years ago that people point to even though the lead author has said that their data has been constantly misrepresented and the study explicit said it was not an attempt to measure efficacy of treatment. not to mention, that study wasnt comparing pre-op transgenders to post-op trasngenders, it was comparing post-op transgenders to cis-gendered people. nobody ever said bottom surgery completely eliminates the suicidality gap between trans and cis people.

there are two main components why transgender people have increased suicide risk. one is the internal psychological/mental distress they feel internally. the other is outside pressure/stigma. its for that reason that the #1 factor that decreases suicide risk among trans people is not surgery, but strong family support

I went ahead and read that study and in it they conclude this

https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/content_public/journal/surg/938735/m_soi210020f2_1625867419.67465.png?Expires=1658022 915&Signature=O1x6TtmOqdvW9AgZN5oBuwMdWXh3STAVaghO1BjB JaI2JN8YaaJ2KUomc8LXmRKh5Z~he1bsv7yMCpDWFUYWQSFomd h50BhfDZpOuerACHucahZuAimrxV94DOoMGRlXpYmBylk9eCOC vBxAetlXB5iOBVvRbQgdG90WCrwKfI7hSGuOzEdt8oKO8vP2GS gpBEwGhO8w0VWHVdcDF4C3XiDQ0a0jSV3rathfVqE64NnIR91y y07kcMgR2MmWGqlmLmvFx-OziwKHdLZbfuRbrjyudcUo1tmHx624XrlscMyg~p5rTkPrG-gdNejqbqYAjFP5J15NCmg-4i65InRP3w__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIE5G5CRDK6RD3PGA

I mean based off that picture 3 out of 10 instead of 6 out of 10 still contemplate suicide, and an almost negligible difference actually attempt it

You cannot legally prescribe any of these medicines for children unless they have FDA approval to be used in children.

And sorry, but there's nothing non-standard about using the same medicine to treat different diagnosis. Generally, companies do decide to come up with a different brand name for different uses, but that's strictly for marketing purposes.


By that logic you could prescibe a kid valium if he comes in with a headache, antibiotics to treat a anxiety, and put them in a cast to treat their ashtma. And by your definition that's not nonstandard.

[spurraider21]

Sure, medical professionals making $70k/pop on every kid who gets affirmation treatment.

I miss the era when liberals were skeptical of Big Pharma's profit motive.
this is a big red herring

the discussion is whether the treatments are proven to work, not whether there are individual physicians that make unethical decisions.

the former is based on clinical trials, retroactive studies, etc. if a preponderance of the literature in the field said these treatments are ineffective or net harmful, i'd have a different opinion on things. just being vaguely conspiratorial doesnt do it for me, tbh

[ElNono]

By that logic you could prescibe a kid valium if he comes in with a headache, antibiotics to treat a anxiety, and put them in a cast to treat their ashtma. And by your definition that's not nonstandard.

You could, but I would recommend you start sending your kid to a different doctor, tbh...

[Trainwreck2100]

You could, but I would recommend you start sending your kid to a different doctor, tbh...

is it nonstandard?

[ElNono]

But anyways, pun aside, there's plenty of medicines with dual or more purposes, and are clinically proven to work for different diagnoses.

To mention a recent case, take GLP-1 agonists which were originally developed to treat diabetes, but now it's use is being expanded also as a weight loss drug.

Some pharma companies are simply rebranding them, but it's the same exact drug a doctor can prescribe for either condition.

[spurraider21]

I went ahead and read that study and in it they conclude this

https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/content_public/journal/surg/938735/m_soi210020f2_1625867419.67465.png?Expires=1658022 915&Signature=O1x6TtmOqdvW9AgZN5oBuwMdWXh3STAVaghO1BjB JaI2JN8YaaJ2KUomc8LXmRKh5Z~he1bsv7yMCpDWFUYWQSFomd h50BhfDZpOuerACHucahZuAimrxV94DOoMGRlXpYmBylk9eCOC vBxAetlXB5iOBVvRbQgdG90WCrwKfI7hSGuOzEdt8oKO8vP2GS gpBEwGhO8w0VWHVdcDF4C3XiDQ0a0jSV3rathfVqE64NnIR91y y07kcMgR2MmWGqlmLmvFx-OziwKHdLZbfuRbrjyudcUo1tmHx624XrlscMyg~p5rTkPrG-gdNejqbqYAjFP5J15NCmg-4i65InRP3w__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIE5G5CRDK6RD3PGA

I mean based off that picture 3 out of 10 instead of 6 out of 10 still contemplate suicide, and an almost negligible difference actually attempt it
right, and decreases across the board for this with gender affirming surgery. the fact that there is still a heightened suicidality compared to the cis population is not unexpected at all. specifically addressed the same in the post you replied to :tu

weird that you say the suicide attempt difference was negligible when just looking at the chart they appear to have been more than halved from ~10% to ~3-4% (eyeballing the bar... dont see the actual figure). and just because one doesnt actually attempt suicide, having thoughts about it alone is deeply disturbing to the point where its good to be addressed


thats just... not true at all :lol

https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-shows-transgender-people-who-receive-gender-affirming-surgery-are-significantly-less-likely-to-experience-psychological-distress-or-suicidal-ideation/

"It found that transgender people who had received one or more gender-affirming surgical procedures had a 42% reduction in the odds of experiencing past-month psychological distress, a 35% reduction in the odds of past-year tobacco smoking, and a 44% reduction in the odds of past-year suicidal ideation."

but yes there was this one paper from sweden years ago that people point to even though the lead author has said that their data has been constantly misrepresented and the study explicit said it was not an attempt to measure efficacy of treatment. not to mention, that study wasnt comparing pre-op transgenders to post-op trasngenders, it was comparing post-op transgenders to cis-gendered people. nobody ever said bottom surgery completely eliminates the suicidality gap between trans and cis people.

there are two main components why transgender people have increased suicide risk. one is the internal psychological/mental distress they feel internally. the other is outside pressure/stigma. its for that reason that the #1 factor that decreases suicide risk among trans people is not surgery, but strong family support

[ElNono]

is it nonstandard?

Your examples are, because there's no medical literature that claims valium heals headaches or a cast treats asthma.

[Trainwreck2100]

Your examples are, because there's no medical literature that claims valium heals headaches or a cast treats asthma.

and no medical literature has been done to for long term effects on these drugs on healthy prepubescents, I can't find any actual trials that have measured long term effects of these drugs on healthy children.

[Trainwreck2100]

right, and decreases across the board for this with gender affirming surgery. the fact that there is still a heightened suicidality compared to the cis population is not unexpected at all. specifically addressed the same in the post you replied to :tu

weird that you say the suicide attempt difference was negligible when just looking at the chart they appear to have been more than halved from ~10% to ~3-4% (eyeballing the bar... dont see the actual figure). and just because one doesnt actually attempt suicide, having thoughts about it alone is deeply disturbing to the point where its good to be addressed

5% is negligible in most statistics studies, that's why i said nearly

[spurraider21]

5% is negligible in most statistics studies, that's why i said nearly
a 5% drop would be going from 10% to 9.5%

going from 10% to 5% is a 50% reduction. far from insigificant

[spurraider21]

and no medical literature has been done to for long term effects on these drugs on healthy prepubescents, I can't find any actual trials that have measured long term effects of these drugs on healthy children.
thats because you cant really hold off on approving a course of treatment until you have 20-30 years of data from longitudinal studies

[ChumpDumper]

.

[Trainwreck2100]

thats because you cant really hold off on approving a course of treatment until you have 20-30 years of data from longitudinal studies

So then do them.

[Dick Jones]

probably why people dont get sex change operations the day that start wondering about their gender identity.

its why younger kids are not put through HRT, but rather on puberty blockers if anything at all
Anything done to a child should be banned. Of course there needs to be way more education and acceptance of trans youth, and zero tolerance for transphobic bullying. I just strongly disagree with anything done chemically to alter them until they’re a consenting adult.

[Trainwreck2100]

a 5% drop would be going from 10% to 9.5%

going from 10% to 5% is a 50% reduction. far from insigificant

8 out of 100 and 2 out of 100 is a difference of 6%.

[koriwhat]

Walsh kept religion completely out of this movie, one of the reasons I liked it.

Exactly! I am more speaking about his daily podcast.

[ChumpDumper]

8 out of 100 and 2 out of 100 is a difference of 6%.
:lol

[koriwhat]

"im a classical liberal but also matt fucking walsh is bae"

What exactly is so bad with listening to others opinions that differ from your own? This is why you're trapped in your bubble. I read everything you fucking losers have to say and others online just like you shit leftists so I keep an open mind about both POV's. You on the other hand would rather subscribe to the cult ideology you subscribe to now and stay in your bubble like the weak fuck that you are unfortunately.

At the end of the day I know exactly why yall are mad at me and it has nothing to do with how I come across here on ST. I am an artist and yall feel as if I shouldn't think outside the box but instead be knee deep in yalls shit ideology; well fuck you losers I am all for the USA and FREEDOM you fucking bitches! :tu

[Trainwreck2100]

:lol

Why is that funny

[Blake]

Anything done to a child should be banned. Of course there needs to be way more education and acceptance of trans youth, and zero tolerance for transphobic bullying. I just strongly disagree with anything done chemically to alter them until they’re a consenting adult.

What about vaccines? Asking for Qris

[ChumpDumper]

8 out of 100 and 2 out of 100 is a difference of 6%.If 8 out of 100 people died from a disease without treatment and 2 out of 100 died with treatment, would you recommend treatment for people who get the disease?

[Trainwreck2100]

If 8 out of 100 people died from a disease without treatment and 2 out of 100 died with treatment, would you recommend treatment for people who get the disease?
Not if the study done concludes that there's no significance between treatment and survival like this one did. Treatment being "medical stuff" survival being "suicide attempts" in this case. Combine the 6 percent and the fact that their own odds ratio was unable to establish a significant realation between suicide and treatment I wouldn't recommend it, would you? would you recommend a treatment where the variables aren't significant?

[ChumpDumper]

Not if the study done concludes that there's no significance between treatment and survival like this one did. Treatment being "medical stuff" survival being "suicide attempts" in this caseI think there might be a misunderstanding about what is significant here.

If you think a 75% reduction of deaths is insignificant, OK.

Not sure where to go from there.

[Trainwreck2100]

I think there might be a misunderstanding about what is significant here.

Did you not see their odds ratio and their own conclusion that attempted suicides we're not significant?

[ChumpDumper]

Did you not see their odds ratio and their own conclusion that attempted suicides we're not significant?I did not read their conclusion that attempted suicides are insignificant, no.

[Trainwreck2100]

I did not read their conclusion that attempted suicides are insignificant, no.

Ok well when you decide to it's there for you. It's it not "insignificant" it's "not significant"

[Dirks_Finale]

This thread is amazing. Liberals trying to cancel a reasonable liberal ( Will Hunting ) for being reasonable.

It goes over about as well as me telling my conservative friends that Trump did a sh1t job handling COVID - or that I hope DeSantis ousts him in the primary :lol

[Joseph Kony]

i dont think that becoming trans surgically/hormonally/whatever until you're an adult should be allowed either tbh

[spurraider21]

Anything done to a child should be banned. Of course there needs to be way more education and acceptance of trans youth, and zero tolerance for transphobic bullying. I just strongly disagree with anything done chemically to alter them until they’re a consenting adult.
or maybe we can count of professionals in the field to study and assess the clinical pros/cons of going on reversible puberty blockers at that age vs allowing them to go through a version of puberty thats only going to cause them more trauma

[spurraider21]

i dont think that becoming trans surgically/hormonally/whatever until you're an adult should be allowed either tbh
kids arent allowed to get bottom surgery until 18 nor do they go on hormone replacement therapy until like 16 tbh. before that point they can put kids on puberty blockers which are by and large reversible once you stop taking them. basically just buys them time to figure out what direction they actually want to go in instead of going through a version of puberty that will later require more surgery/procedures to undo

[koriwhat]

i dont think that becoming trans surgically/hormonally/whatever until you're an adult should be allowed either tbh

You don't have to worry because you're the biggest pussy here. :tu

[koriwhat]

kids arent allowed to get bottom surgery until 18 nor do they go on hormone replacement therapy until like 16 tbh. before that point they can put kids on puberty blockers which are by and large reversible once you stop taking them. basically just buys them time to figure out what direction they actually want to go in instead of going through a version of puberty that will later require more surgery/procedures to undo

LMAO The Big Lie! Take for instance that dude on TLC parading around as a fat chick with a tiny dick who got it sliced up and stuffed up in him. If he decided not to go through with it he would've ended up with a baby dick just like you. "Everything will go back to normal when getting off puberty blockers" Sure bud! :tu

[Trainwreck2100]

kids arent allowed to get bottom surgery until 18 nor do they go on hormone replacement therapy until like 16 tbh. before that point they can put kids on puberty blockers which are by and large reversible once you stop taking them. basically just buys them time to figure out what direction they actually want to go in instead of going through a version of puberty that will later require more surgery/procedures to undo

This is the shit will hunting and me are talking about. You don't know if they're reversible. Example, doctors don't know their long term effect on fertility.

[spurraider21]

8 out of 100 and 2 out of 100 is a difference of 6%.
you mentioned statistical significance which is a completely separate thing though. just because some figure in a research paper is less than 5% doesnt make it insignificant. statistical significance comes from whether the "p-value" is greater or lower than 5% or 0.05. p-value is basically a term for calculating the chances that your measured phenomenon is due to random chance or if there is some correlation to the experiment.

you dont just say "oh this was a difference of 3% and therefore its statistically insignificant."

same with looking at the prevalence of suicide attempts.

and if you werent talking about statistical significance and just a more arbitrary use of the word significant, i still think you're way off. taking suicide attempt rates of 10% and reducing them to 3-4... more than cutting them in half, is pretty fucking great

[spurraider21]

So then do them.
what makes you think those studies are not happening?

[Trainwreck2100]

what makes you think those studies are not happening?

are they done? If not then, it's should not be a treatment.

[Trainwreck2100]

you mentioned statistical significance which is a completely separate thing though. just because some figure in a research paper is less than 5% doesnt make it insignificant. statistical significance comes from whether the "p-value" is greater or lower than 5% or 0.05. p-value is basically a term for calculating the chances that your measured phenomenon is due to random chance or if there is some correlation to the experiment.

you dont just say "oh this was a difference of 3% and therefore its statistically insignificant."

same with looking at the prevalence of suicide attempts.

and if you werent talking about statistical significance and just a more arbitrary use of the word significant, i still think you're way off. taking suicide attempt rates of 10% and reducing them to 3-4... more than cutting them in half, is pretty fucking great



not worth the price, especially when there was no significant association between suicide attempts and surgery when they ran the odds ratio, which makes sense seeing as the difference was only 5%.

[SnakeBoy]

I'm not socially conservative. I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage and atheist. I just think liberals have gone overboard on this niche issue.

See this is where I disagree with you, I think Dems need to go moar tranny.

[Will Hunting]

See this is where I disagree with you, I think Dems need to go moar tranny.
Moar tranny + more Weather Underground DAs who let cities like San Francisco go to absolute hell :lol

[Dick Jones]

This thread is amazing. Liberals trying to cancel a reasonable liberal ( Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032) ) for being reasonable.
Who is trying to cancel him? There’s people who disagree and they’re debating. Do you even understand the concept of cancelling?

Funny thing here is that you’re the only one in this thread acting like an emotionally stunted, hormonal child.

[Winehole23]

Arguing against or expressing contrary views = cancellation..

Oh the puny indignity.

[spurraider21]

are they done? If not then, it's should not be a treatment.
no medicine/procedure/treatment is subject to having to have decades long studies before becoming authorized. This is patently ridiculous

[ChumpDumper]

Ok well when you decide to it's there for you. It's it not "insignificant" it's "not significant"Whatever it is, you don't seem to get it.

[ChumpDumper]

This thread is amazing. Liberals trying to cancel a reasonable liberal ( Will Hunting ) for being reasonable.:lol no

[Trainwreck2100]

Whatever it is, you don't seem to get it.

i do, it's there, no statistically significant association, their own table says that. So if it doesn't affect suicide then it doesn't save their lives, if it doesn't save their lives it can wait.

[Blake]

This thread is amazing. Liberals trying to cancel a reasonable liberal ( Will Hunting ) for being reasonable.

It goes over about as well as me telling my conservative friends that Trump did a sh1t job handling COVID - or that I hope DeSantis ousts him in the primary :lol

You guys always think this is team sports.

[Blake]

See this is where I disagree with you, I think Dems need to go moar tranny.

Oh you mean like Bruce?

[Blake]

You don't have to worry because you're the biggest pussy here. :tu

Throw another hissy fit because I'm replying to you now

[koriwhat]

IDGAF BlaKKKe. You keep trying to get me to open your replies but you're a worthless loser that I don't fucking care about. Go dig your grave and bury yourself already you fucking loser. :tu

[koriwhat]

Who is trying to cancel him? There’s people who disagree and they’re debating. Do you even understand the concept of cancelling?

Funny thing here is that you’re the only one in this thread acting like an emotionally stunted, hormonal child.

LMFAO "debating"... You fucking leftists don't debate yall try to force your bs world view on others because you're a loser ass cultist. Fucking loser!

[ChumpDumper]

i do, it's there, no statistically significant association, their own table says that. So if it doesn't affect suicide then it doesn't save their lives, if it doesn't save their lives it can wait.

So they don't actually say that themselves?

It's your interpretation?

[Dick Jones]

LMFAO "debating"... You fucking leftists don't debate yall try to force your bs world view on others because you're a loser ass cultist. Fucking loser!
Speaking of hormonal teenagers…

[Blake]

It's literally what happened with my stepsister (now step brother).

Graduated from college, never had any thoughts about being trans before, then a year after graduation when her life was going nowhere, she decided that her failure to launch is due to the fact she's a boy trapped in a girl's body...it took her literally one doctor's appointment to start on testosterone therapy.

Yeah but you're talking about an adult, so wgaf? There's really nothing to debate there, right?

If it's all about kids then make a kid only documentary. It's in the same arena but still two different things.

[Blake]

Throw another hissy fit because I'm replying to you now


IDGAF BlaKKKe. You keep trying to get me to open your replies but you're a worthless loser that I don't fucking care about. Go dig your grave and bury yourself already you fucking loser. :tu

Lol good girl

[koriwhat]

Speaking of hormonal teenagers…

LMAO always talking shit behind your alts ya fucking pussy. :tu

[koriwhat]

Again BlaKKKe, fuck off and die already you worthless fuck.

[Trainwreck2100]

no medicine/procedure/treatment is subject to having to have decades long studies before becoming authorized. This is patently ridiculous

2, 2 decades by your own numbers(20-30 years your words), and standard treatments from discovery to market take about 10 years already, with some taking 10-15 so what's another 5-10 years? Especially when trials for children have historically taken longer than for adults, 10 years for adult studies 6 more for children on average, but asking to wait 4 more is "patently ridiculous"

[Dirks_Finale]

LMFAO "debating"... You fucking leftists don't debate yall try to force your bs world view on others because you're a loser ass cultist. Fucking loser!

Will is probably being doxxed as we speak by some emo, blue haired wolfatarians.

[spurraider21]

2, 2 decades by your own numbers(20-30 years your words), and standard treatments from discovery to market take about 10 years already, with some taking 10-15 so what's another 5-10 years? Especially when trials for children have historically taken longer than for adults, 10 years for adult studies 6 more for children on average, but asking to wait 4 more is "patently ridiculous"
yes, decades. imagine we waited decades before we started giving people smallpox or polio vaccinations. or more recently, covid vaccines. its just poor practice and impractical. as of now theres no data to suggest it causes long term fertility issues, while the limited data we have now suggests that there arent any issues. hormone replacement therapy is quite different. but weighing that against the proven mental health benefits is something that every physician will and should do

[koriwhat]

Will is probably being doxxed as we speak by some emo, blue haired wolfatarians.

I wouldn't doubt it and all over a simple thread about a docu that shouldn't even be considered controversial in the least. It's hilarious how they eat their own when they sway from that delusional ideology.

[spurraider21]

i do, it's there, no statistically significant association, their own table says that. So if it doesn't affect suicide then it doesn't save their lives, if it doesn't save their lives it can wait.
where does their table say that there is no statistically significant association?

a figure is not statistically insignificant because it is less than 5 percent. statistical insignificance is if the p-value of a result is below a 5% confidence interval. if you've taken even an intro into statistics course you'd know this within your first two months of class

[Trainwreck2100]

So they don't actually say that themselves?

It's your interpretation?

i do, it's there, no statistically significant association, you cannot assume it saves lives if you cannot assume it saves lives it can wait.

The yellow are their words not my interpretation it's in their study, the blue is what any statistician would tell you based of their results, the purple is based off how medical studies work. I.E. we stopped giving hydroxycloroquine, when we established that there was no significance in treatment.

[spurraider21]

i do, it's there, no statistically significant association, you cannot assume it saves lives if you cannot assume it saves lives it can wait.

The yellow are their words not my interpretation it's in their study, the blue is what any statistician would tell you based of their results, the purple is based off how medical studies work. I.E. we stopped giving hydroxycloroquine, when we established that there was no significance in treatment.
now you're being intentionally dishonest for some reason. good thing you managed to quote a single sentence fragment without any surrounding context to make a point!


In our primary analysis, although gender-affirming surgery was associated with lower odds of past-year suicidal ideation, there was no statistically significant association between gender-affirming surgeries and past-year suicide attempts. However, in a post hoc analysis respondents who underwent all desired gender-affirming surgeries had significantly lower odds of past-year suicide attempts.

of course thats not even touching on the reduction in suicidal ideation, which i dont think can be brushed off with "lol they didnt even try to murk themselves". if your kid told you they were having suicidal thoughts without having actually attempted one, you'd still be pretty fucking concerned

[Blake]

now you're being intentionally dishonest for some reason. good thing you managed to quote a single sentence fragment without any surrounding context to make a point!



of course thats not even touching on the reduction in suicidal ideation, which i dont think can be brushed off with "lol they didnt even try to murk themselves". if your kid told you they were having suicidal thoughts without having actually attempted one, you'd still be pretty fucking concerned

Ouch

[Spurminator]

This thread is amazing. Liberals trying to cancel a reasonable liberal ( Will Hunting ) for being reasonable.

It goes over about as well as me telling my conservative friends that Trump did a sh1t job handling COVID - or that I hope DeSantis ousts him in the primary :lol

No one's trying to cancel Will Hunting. I think what may be confusing you is that you've been trained to fall in line with your teammates even when they're doing something like nominating a trust fund billionaire with a reality TV show to the highest office in the land, then attempting to subvert democracy because he said to do so.

[Trainwreck2100]

where does their table say that there is no statistically significant association?

a figure is not statistically insignificant because it is less than 5 percent. statistical insignificance is if the p-value of a result is below a 5% confidence interval. if you've taken even an intro into statistics course you'd know this within your first two months of class

I didn't say it was in their table I said it was in their study, i went through and read their paper, and no statistical significance is not based solely off a p-value being below .05, .05 is the common number, but that's only because Fisher used it. You can use any confidence level you want but most use .05. In this study's case they used .05 but because they used bonferonni correction which was .05/19 (i'm assuming it was 19 because they asked 19 questions their p-value went from .05 to .002. The p-value for attempted suicides was .009. So no p-value below .05 even in a .05 test does not guarantee significance. Also they acknowledge in their results that suicides had no statistically significant association. If you go through and read what i said, I said "combining the 5% difference and the studies authors own conclusions"

[spurraider21]

I didn't say it was in their table I said it was in their study, i went through and read their paper, and no statistical significance is not based solely off a p-value being below .05, .05 is the common number, but that's only because Fisher used it. You can use any confidence level you want but most use .05. In this study's case they used .05 but because they used bonferonni correction which was .05/19 (i'm assuming it was 19 because they asked 19 questions their p-value went from .05 to .002. The p-value for attempted suicides was .009. So no p-value below .05 even in a .05 test does not guarantee significance. Also they acknowledge in their results that suicides had no statistically significant association. If you go through and read what i said, I said "combining the 5% difference and the studies authors own conclusions"
in almost every circumstance its set to 0.05, including this one. my point was that you dont just look at some number, see that its less than 5% and therefore call it insignificant. and initially you werent even mentioning statistical significance. you were saying the suicide attempt had an "almost negligible difference" when they were more than cut in half

[Dirks_Finale]

No one's trying to cancel Will Hunting. I think what may be confusing you is that you've been trained to fall in line with your teammates even when they're doing something like nominating a trust fund billionaire with a reality TV show to the highest office in the land, then attempting to subvert democracy because he said to do so.

I was going to vote for the GOP nominee just like you were gonna vote for the Democrat's nominee.

But it is interesting to see a Bill Maher type democrat dare to disagree with the mob, though

[ChumpDumper]

I was going to vote for the GOP nominee just like you were gonna vote for the Democrat's nominee.

But it is interesting to see a Bill Maher type democrat dare to disagree with the mob, though

:lmao "mob"

So thirsty for drama.

[Spurminator]

I was going to vote for the GOP nominee just like you were gonna vote for the Democrat's nominee.

But it is interesting to see a Bill Maher type democrat dare to disagree with the mob, though

This is called discussion. Again, I see why it appears to be a foreign concept to you. Keep reading, maybe you will learn something.

[Trainwreck2100]

now you're being intentionally dishonest for some reason. good thing you managed to quote a single sentence fragment without any surrounding context to make a point!



of course thats not even touching on the reduction in suicidal ideation, which i dont think can be brushed off with "lol they didnt even try to murk themselves". if your kid told you they were having suicidal thoughts without having actually attempted one, you'd still be pretty fucking concerned

I'm not being intentionally dishonest, I said "it can wait" for a reason, their ad hoc analysis was them basically introducing a variable of "received all desired surgeries" and "received some desired surgeries" and even in the "some desired" variable it was once again not significant. So if these adult numbers do in fact apply to kids, they wouldn't be non suicidal until they've fully transitioned which probably wouldn't happen until they were adults anyway when they can get their surgery. So that variable doesn't apply to kids. I'll say it again that variable doesn't apply to kids

[Spurminator]

And it's not your vote that's the problem as much as the unfailing fealty towards the person you voted for. It's okay to vote for someone and still be critical of them or other people who voted your way.

[Trainwreck2100]

yes, decades. imagine we waited decades before we started giving people smallpox or polio vaccinations. or more recently, covid vaccines. its just poor practice and impractical. as of now theres no data to suggest it causes long term fertility issues, while the limited data we have now suggests that there arent any issues. hormone replacement therapy is quite different. but weighing that against the proven mental health benefits is something that every physician will and should do

We accepted those risks even last year because of COVID and Smallpox, and polio, because the numbers were high enough to support it, this is something that affects a fraction of a fraction. And your "proven mental health benefits" were only proven for adults as well.

[Will Hunting]

This thread is amazing. Liberals trying to cancel a reasonable liberal ( Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032) ) for being reasonable.

It goes over about as well as me telling my conservative friends that Trump did a sh1t job handling COVID - or that I hope DeSantis ousts him in the primary :lol
They’re not trying to cancel me to be fair

Plenty of libs on Twitter have tho, but they’re a different breed.

[Dick Jones]

LMAO always talking shit behind your alts ya fucking pussy. :tu
Why do you whine so much about the alt is when you know exactly who it is? :lol

[Will Hunting]

Also Dirks_Finale DeSantis wouldn’t challenge Trump in a primary but I’m looking forward to when he and Nikki Haley are in a primary together and he uses hilarious racial dogwhistles to pillow smother her campaign.

[Will Hunting]

DeSantis in a primary debate and Nikki Haley - “I’m tired of watching NIMRATA HALEY try and CURRY FAVOR with the great voters of this state!”

[spurraider21]

We accepted those risks even last year because of COVID and Smallpox, and polio, because the numbers were high enough to support it, this is something that affects a fraction of a fraction.
those people matter, too. within that fraction of a fraction of a people that are trans, they experience mental health issues ranging from depression to suicidality at alarming rates that absolutely justify intervention.

And your "proven mental health benefits" were only proven for adults as well.
if you want to fixate on the suicide attempts number which is just one of the criteria that they looked at. what about suicide ideation? what about severe psychological distress? these are important things, too

the only reason i brought this up to begin with was will hunting's bogus claim that "its a fabricated myth that top/bottom surgeries decrease suicidal tendencies and in fact cause them to increase" or whatever. complete dogwater

[Trainwreck2100]

DeSantis in a primary debate and Nikki Haley - “I’m tired of watching NIMRATA HALEY try and CURRY FAVOR with the great voters of this state!”

"Nikki Haley is our version of Kamala Harris"

[Trainwreck2100]

DeSantis in a primary debate and Nikki Haley - “I’m tired of watching NIMRATA HALEY try and CURRY FAVOR with the great voters of this state!”

"Nikki Haley is our version of Kamala Harris"

[Trainwreck2100]

DeSantis in a primary debate and Nikki Haley - “I’m tired of watching NIMRATA HALEY try and CURRY FAVOR with the great voters of this state!”

"Nikki Haley is our version of Kamala Harris"

[Blake]

We accepted those risks even last year because of COVID and Smallpox, and polio, because the numbers were high enough to support it, this is something that affects a fraction of a fraction. And your "proven mental health benefits" were only proven for adults as well.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/well/family/what-are-puberty-blockers.html

[Will Hunting]

"Nikki Haley is our version of Kamala Harris"
Her first name is Nimrata and there’s a 0% chance DeSantis wouldn’t use that when referring to her :lol

”The last thing we need to do is SHIT THE STREET by picking GLOBALIST NIMRATA to lead the party in this election!”

[Dick Jones]

“Nimrata Haley will use her left hand to wipe away all the progress Trump made!”

[Trainwreck2100]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/11/well/family/what-are-puberty-blockers.html

ok

[ElNono]

and no medical literature has been done to for long term effects on these drugs on healthy prepubescents, I can't find any actual trials that have measured long term effects of these drugs on healthy children.

As far as I know, you can't prescribe them unless they have FDA approval, which involve such trials, etc, so I have to assume such studies/trials do exist.

[Trainwreck2100]

As far as I know, you can't prescribe them unless they have FDA approval, which involve such trials, etc, so I have to assume such studies/trials do exist.

they are prescribed off label

[pgardn]

I'm fine with using people's preferred pronouns as long as it makes grammatical sense. I'm not going to refer to someone as "they/them" since they is a plural pronoun. The concept of "non-binary" also isn't buttressed by a shred of actual science and is 100% bullshit.

The idea of only binary is not buttressed by science if you are referring to sex chromosomes and development.
If non binary, is meant to counter only binary, its fine.

[Will Hunting]

The idea of only binary is not buttressed by science if you are referring to sex chromosomes and development.
If non binary, is meant to counter only binary, its fine.
two possibilities:

xx chromosomes
xy chromosomes

seems pretty binary to me

[spurraider21]

As far as I know, you can't prescribe them unless they have FDA approval, which involve such trials, etc, so I have to assume such studies/trials do exist.
yeah but we dont have 20 year long longitudinal studies to determine every super long term potential effect meanwhile we should just let these kids suffer severe psychological distress until such time because trans people are weird and icky tbh

[spurraider21]

two possibilities:

xx chromosomes
xy chromosomes

seems pretty binary to me
aside from the fact that there are people with X, XXY, there are people with XY who nevertheless have female genitalia, or people with XX and grow male genitalia. so sex is not binary, but rather, bimodal

and thats sex, not gender. somebody who is a trans woman doesnt literally believe that they have xx chromosomes, ovaries, etc. vast vast majority of our interactions where we look at a man or woman comes from social cues, not from conducting a genetic test or genital pat down

[pgardn]

two possibilities:

xx chromosomes
xy chromosomes

seems pretty binary to me

Yes it does but its not.

XXY
XXX
X
XYY

And its even more confusing than this if you really want to get into it.

[spurraider21]

Yes it does but its not.

XXY
XXX
X
XYY

And its even more confusing than this if you really want to get into it.
graphic from scientific american

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/sciam/assets/File/Pitch_sketch_final.png

[ElNono]

This thread is amazing. Liberals trying to cancel a reasonable liberal ( Will Hunting ) for being reasonable.

It goes over about as well as me telling my conservative friends that Trump did a sh1t job handling COVID - or that I hope DeSantis ousts him in the primary :lol

Who's trying to "cancel" anybody? We're having a discussion like adults normally have. Sometimes we'll agree on some things and sometimes we don't.

:lol you don't need to pull the victim card for Will, tbh

[ElNono]

they are prescribed off label

Off-label prescribing is when a physician gives you a drug that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved to treat a condition different than your condition. This practice is legal and common. In fact, one in five prescriptions written today are for off-label use.

https://www.ahrq.gov/patients-consumers/patient-involvement/off-label-drug-usage.html

Welp

[pgardn]

graphic from scientific american

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/sciam/assets/File/Pitch_sketch_final.png

good lord...

And there can be all sorts of translocations between the sex chromosomes. Pieces changing places. This is where you get sex genes getting turned off or getting regulated very differently. Some of these that happen more regularly are in the diagram above.

But I am also sure there are kids who are clearly XX, XY have no real urge for changing sex and dangle it in front of people because kids do that just to be noticed or difficult. I am also sure there are purely XX, XY kids that have no discernable sex chromosome abnormalities and really do feel like they are the wrong sex.

Not to mention that the male parts and female parts are very much derived from the same basic developmental parts. its just when they are fully developed they look so different you would never know it.

SJ Gould put this in a series that used to be in Natural history. He has books full of biological and evolutionary confusion and tries to explain these through Natural History. I got the whole set from my father.

The one I was looking for was about sex organs in hyenas as a model for the confusion of just using actual parts.
Now that Gould is long gone and we have gene sequencing and location this is outdated but it served its purpose at the time.

https://www.zoology.ubc.ca/~bio336/Bio336/Readings/GouldHyena1981.pdf I have this in article form in one of his many collections from Natural History.

[SnakeBoy]

yes, decades. imagine we waited decades before we started giving people smallpox or polio vaccinations. or more recently, covid vaccines. its just poor practice and impractical. as of now theres no data to suggest it causes long term fertility issues, while the limited data we have now suggests that there arent any issues. hormone replacement therapy is quite different. but weighing that against the proven mental health benefits is something that every physician will and should do

You're flailing now

First you cherry pick from your own article that says there is no good science on the effectiveness of tranny treatments (ignored that part of course), then you moved to we don't have time to study cuz lives (ignoring there is already proven psychiatric treatments available), and now it's whatabout smallpox or polio.

[Trainwreck2100]

Off-label prescribing is when a physician gives you a drug that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved to treat a condition different than your condition. This practice is legal and common. In fact, one in five prescriptions written today are for off-label use.

https://www.ahrq.gov/patients-consumers/patient-involvement/off-label-drug-usage.html

Welp
so when i said earlier about "valium for headaches, a cast for some other thing etc..."

you said "I'd find another doctor"

But why would you do that if you are fine with off label prescription? I only ask because that's where that comment came from.

[spurraider21]

You're flailing now

First you cherry pick from your own article that says there is no good science on the effectiveness of tranny treatments (ignored that part of course), then you moved to we don't have time to study cuz lives (ignoring there is already proven psychiatric treatments available), and now it's whatabout smallpox or polio.study showed efficacy for sure. Reduced severe psychological distress, suicide ideation, etc. post hoc data showed it significantly reduces suicide attempts.

and yeah i will just about always say it’s really dumb to withhold the use of treatments that work because we don’t have 20-30 year long longitudinal studies first. Terrible practice and it’s not a standard we would use for literally any other medical treatment

[Trainwreck2100]

study showed efficacy for sure. Reduced severe psychological distress, suicide ideation, etc. post hoc data showed it significantly reduces suicide attempts.

and yeah i will just about always say it’s really dumb to withhold the use of treatments that work because we don’t have 20-30 year long longitudinal studies first. Terrible practice and it’s not a standard we would use for literally any other medical treatment

post hoc data doesn't apply to children only someone who has completed all their surgeries. So Reduced severe psychological distress, suicide ideation, doesn't mean it saved their lives.

[ElNono]

so when i said earlier about "valium for headaches, a cast for some other thing etc..."

you said "I'd find another doctor"

But why would you do that if you are fine with off label prescription? I only ask because that's where that comment came from.

Because the expectation is that doctors are educated to know which drugs work for given diagnosis.

As such, a doctor that's prescribing a cast to treat asthma clearly doesn't know what he's doing, if he/she has a doctoral degree at all. It also expose them to malpractice, which can be the end of their medical license and career.

I should also add that even for off-label use, you still would need to prescribe a drug that has been explicitly approved by the FDA to use in children of certain age, you can't escape that.

It's probably the main reason some of these drugs cannot be administered until the children are 16+ years old.

[ElNono]

You're flailing now

First you cherry pick from your own article that says there is no good science on the effectiveness of tranny treatments (ignored that part of course), then you moved to we don't have time to study cuz lives (ignoring there is already proven psychiatric treatments available), and now it's whatabout smallpox or polio.

You're flailing now.

Old Joe broke you.

[spurraider21]

post hoc data doesn't apply to children only someone who has completed all their surgeries. So Reduced severe psychological distress, suicide ideation, doesn't mean it saved their lives.
No shit. Children aren’t the one getting bottom surgery. Will’s claim was that bottom surgery not only didn’t help suicide but made it worse.

[pgardn]

You're flailing now

First you cherry pick from your own article that says there is no good science on the effectiveness of tranny treatments (ignored that part of course), then you moved to we don't have time to study cuz lives (ignoring there is already proven psychiatric treatments available), and now it's whatabout smallpox or polio.

Is this the sending of said tranny to a religious school to be turned in the right direction treatment, just talk them out of it?
I am sure there are some kids and young adults who want to play games and be different just to worry their parents.
But when a kid commits suicide... it was all just a big joke I guess? Like commits suicide because they really dont feel what they are told to be so they find a way out of being a worthless oddity.

[SnakeBoy]

study showed efficacy for sure. Reduced severe psychological distress, suicide ideation, etc. post hoc data showed it significantly reduces suicide attempts.

and yeah i will just about always say it’s really dumb to withhold the use of treatments that work because we don’t have 20-30 year long longitudinal studies first. Terrible practice and it’s not a standard we would use for literally any other medical treatment

Still cherry picking the one study in your own article while ignoring the mention of the other studies that did not show efficacy of these treatments.

Still ignoring that psychiatric treatment is a proven option. Why is that? I asked you earlier if any physical changes were needed and you made the case that gender dysphoria is a purely psychiatric disorder. Why now act like psychiatric treatment doesn't exist and they'll die without the unproven physical treatments at $70k a pop? Doesn't make sense.

[SnakeBoy]

You're flailing now.

Old Joe broke you.

lol you're so angry at me

[Th'Pusher]

lol you're so angry at me

Lol. You’re not to be taken seriously. You’re just here for the lulz.

And you let dr boss peg you. :lol

[spurraider21]

Still cherry picking the one study in your own article while ignoring the mention of the other studies that did not show efficacy of these treatments.

Still ignoring that psychiatric treatment is a proven option. Why is that? I asked you earlier if any physical changes were needed and you made the case that gender dysphoria is a purely psychiatric disorder. Why now act like psychiatric treatment doesn't exist and they'll die without the unproven physical treatments at $70k a pop? Doesn't make sense.
Nobody had presented any study to the contrary

[ElNono]

lol you're so angry at me

lol you're so angry at Old Joe

[Blake]

ok

Just thought I'd share. I'll believe this article before I believe some cheesy movie and a few posters questioning the long term effects.