Report: Hawks Trying to Move Into Lottery; John Collins a Candidate to be Moved

[BatManu20]

I’ve made it No secret over the past couple seasons that I don’t like John Collins. But many on this board do, and since he’s constantly brought up with our glaring hole at the PF position, I figured I’d start another discussion about it.

Would you hypothetically want the Spurs to trade #9 for John Collins, who has 4-years and $107M left on his deal? Or maybe #9 and #20 for John Collins and Atlanta’s 16th pick? What say you.


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[exstatic]

I don’t mind him, he’s just always hurt. He’s also not The Guy, the one who’s going to vault us back into contention.

[KingKev]

Collins would make sense only if he came cheap (ie. they took McD and or JRich and a later first) which he probably won’t.

I do think he would fit decently at the 4 with our young core. Replace McD with Collins in the starting lineup you may have made the playoffs this yr

[John B]

Not giving my pick 9 for him. In the past I’ve considered him. But this draft has potential good size PF who can create for themselves within reach. And not at his price either.

[spurraider21]

i like collins a lot. the fit is obvious. #9 seems steep though. would consider a trade inovlving a swap where we still take #16 though.

if josh richardson is valued as a late first (a first from a contender), maybe a deal where we get collins and 16 for 9, richardson, mcdermott, or something along those lines

[mo7888]

I’ve made it No secret over the past couple seasons that I don’t like John Collins. But many on this board do, and since he’s constantly brought up with our glaring hole at the PF position, I figured I’d start another discussion about it.

Would you hypothetically want the Spurs to trade #9 for John Collins, who has 4-years and $107M left on his deal? Or maybe #9 and #20 for John Collins and Atlanta’s 16th pick? What say you.


1536392873335214080

I wouldn't give up 9 in a John Collins trade..

[Leetonidas]

Depends on who is still available at 9. He fits a position of need and likely will be better than whoever is there. But I'd rather the Spurs try to move up and get a real prospect. Sac is shopping the #4

[The Truth #6]

Whoever we pick at 9 probably won't be as successful in the NBA as John Collins, because most players don't make it, but to me the bigger issue is, I guess, his salary and the stage we are at in rebuilding. He's still young which is good, but the beauty of FRPs is that they are relatively cheaper than borderline All Stars. It's a weird dilemma. Also, ATL seems like a weird team. On a tangent, I feel like they have it backwards. They have pretty great supporting players but are stuck to Trae Young who is not going to be the guy because he hasn't been the guy yet. He's a one-way player, tiny, and a horrible defender. That puts a ceiling on things. I'd trade him in the hopes of getting a different alpha at some point, but probably not in this draft.

[td4mvp2k]

didnt want him last yr and hawks would have to give him to the spurs for them to consider taking him. He's a waste of cap space and hawks know they made a mistake.

[BatManu20]

Here’s Collins stats from this season. Should be noted his best season was 2020, where he averaged 21 pts, 10 rbs, 2 asts, 1.6 blks, and 1 steal on 58% shooting, but he missed half the season due to injury. But his stats have steadily declined the past 2 seasons.


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[BatManu20]

He also missed 28 games this season, 19 games in 2021, half of the entire season in 2020, and 20 games in 2019. He’s definitely injury prone.

[spurraider21]

He also missed 28 games this season, 19 games in 2021, half of the entire season in 2020, and 20 games in 2019. He’s definitely injury prone.
sounds like a spur already

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm definitely trading 9 for Collins. This is a bad draft, the chance anyone picked at 9 becoming as good as him is tiny.

[Degoat]

Yeah I’ve been a John Collins guy in the past but not for the #9 pick tbh

[rjv]

JC is like communism: he sounds good in theory but doesn't live up to the hype in the real world.

[RC_Drunkford]

I like Collins and think he's a perfect fit, especially next to Poeltl. I wouldn't give up #9 though. A lower first rounder and J-Rich yeah, but I'm sure ATL will get better packages from teams like Dallas or make a Collins/Ayton trade with Phoenix

[slick'81]

Not this shit again lol

[Dverde]

Not high on this guy, at least he plays with passion. Probably prefer him over an Ayton max contract. It really depends on who the Spurs think will be available at #9.

[slick'81]

And no im not giving atl 9 unless who the spurs are taking there absolutely sucks

[Ignazzz]

Collins plus 16 for #9&20&25?

[poopbox]

9 is a little steep but the question is are we going to draft a power forward as good as John Collins.

[slick'81]

9 is a little steep but the question is are we going to draft a power forward as good as John Collins.

who says we're drafting a pf :lol

[ginobilized]

I'm not on the JC bandwagon, and no way on giving up 9 for him.
He does not feel like a guy that the Spurs would really go after to me.

[jjspur]

McNuggets, Langford and the #9 to Atlanta for Collins and the #16. We get rid of stuff we don't want and they get rid of stuff they don't want. Yeah we're out of the lottery, but you can still pick up a decent big at 16 plus it might even keep the spurs from further trading for or over paying for way past their prime, third tier scrubs and leftovers. One halfway over paid player on the team is enough. We've had more on this team. Might even force the team to utilize their draft talent sooner rather than later.

[Mr. Body]

I can't imagine ANYONE trading a lottery pick for John Collins. Other teams see what the infatuated brain trust of SpursTalk sees: a player who can't stay healthy who is already years removed from his best production, which was only just pretty good.

[Dex]

Definitely a now-or-later kind of situation. Spurs know exactly what they will get with Collins, for better or worse...a solid PF who still has some upside, but also a big price tag and some health concerns.

No telling if they feel like they can get a comparable or better piece at #9...obviously that remains to be seen but also comes on a rookie contract.

I'd say doing McD/Langford/9 for Collins/16 seems like a good deal on paper, especially if Spurs feel they can get similar value 7 spots later in the draft.

Would definitely be more of a win-now move which begs the question...are the Spurs really going into win-now mode already? Or positioning for another rebuilding year?

[Maddog]

No thanks
Good player injury prone
I think he is a Robin and we need Batman
Also if he is so good why does Atlanta wish to part ways with him?



Would he make the current Spurs better- absolutely
Could he prevent the Spurs from getting a lot better? Possibly
Makes sense for teams with an an established star- of course they won't have a pick

[Ditty]

I rather trade #9 for OG. Even sign Ayton.

[TD 21]

:lmao Of course his precious counting stats went down the past two seasons, that's a natural byproduct of the team having more talent. It doesn't render him a lesser player though. He's young and hasn't suffered a career altering injury.

I'd pursue 3.5's (namely Anunoby) first, but most likely wait to see who's on the board before contemplating parting with 9. If I were going to do it though, I'd want 16 back in the exchange.

[duncan2150]

Like a lot of guys in this board, i'll not give the pick 9 for Collins. If i can do something around the pick 20 maybe.

[poopbox]

who says we're drafting a pf :lol

Your right knowing Pop he probably going to draft another guard :lol

[Dverde]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1536454067530084353

New GM Landry Fields used to be with The Spurs organization…

[objective]

He also missed 28 games this season, 19 games in 2021, half of the entire season in 2020, and 20 games in 2019. He’s definitely injury prone.

Not seeing the same games played numbers you are.

Game logs from basketball reference

21-22: 28 games missed out of 82
20-21: 9 games missed out of 72 game season
19-20: 26 games missed out of 67 game season
18-19: 21 games missed out of 82 game season

And more about injuries:

He's never had a season ending injury. He did not play at the of this regular season but he made it back for the playoffs

[CGD]

Here we go again….. lol

[CGD]

Collins plus 16 for #9&20&25?

You are a mad man

[Robz4000]

Not for #9 straight up, but Collins and #16 for #9 maybe.

[objective]

It also looks like 5 of his missed games this year were covid protocols

[couchman]

Not interested.
Keldon had similar numbers last year but without missing a ton of games, at a fraction of the cost, and still on the upswing of his career.
Collins has already had his best NBA season.

[mo7888]

Not for #9 straight up, but Collins and #16 for #9 maybe.

I'm still not a fan of that trade but, if they take McDermott back as well....I might look a little harder at it..

[Dex]

I'm still not a fan of that trade but, if they take McDermott back as well....I might look a little harder at it..

Don't they have to in order to make salaries match?

[mo7888]

Don't they have to in order to make salaries match?

Not with our cap space...we've got enough room to get it done without sending Doug.

[CGD]

Not interested.
Keldon had similar numbers last year but without missing a ton of games, at a fraction of the cost, and still on the upswing of his career.
Collins has already had his best NBA season.

Plus no Divo bs

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Plus no Divo bs

https://www.nme.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2017GettyImages-devo-emojis.jpg

[Uriel]

SpursTalk wouldn't trade #9 for John Collins but thinks Sacramento would take Keldon Johnson for #4. Never change :lol

[slick'81]

SpursTalk wouldn't trade #9 for John Collins but thinks Sacramento would take Keldon Johnson for #4. Never change :lol

don't forget the gem that was "5th best team in the west":lol

[Dex]

SpursTalk wouldn't trade #9 for John Collins but thinks Sacramento would take Keldon Johnson for #4. Never change :lol

You son of a bitch, I'm in!

[talkspurs]

I would do the 9 and mcdermont for him and 16. Other details can be ironed out. This would allow KJ to play at this more natural 3 which should help the defense. He also is good at defense although I think his interior is better then wing defense.
I was against us signing him last year for the max and still feel that way. That is why mcdermont would need to be included as it would reduce the amount we would be paying Collins.
As some has alluded to this is more a of a win now mode but not completely as he is young. We could have a starting lineup of DJ Devin KJ Collins and Jacob. 2nd unit could vary depending on who is traded but it would be jones richardson primo kbd/jock/Zollins.

[jjspur]

I rather trade #9 for OG. Even sign Ayton.

OG is about 17 million plus per season. That's a reasonable salary, but Toronto would want more than a #9 pick to give up that reasonable salary. Probably the #9 + the 20 and a young player for OG. Ayton wants a max salary that starts in the high 20 millions if not more. He would be spurs highest paid player ever --- don't think that will happen. So somewhere in between might be the sweet spot. It just depends if the spurs want to win now or kick the can down another year or two. Either way I think the spurs make at least one trade come draft night, just don't know where.

[scott]

I’d do 20 for Colins but only if it didn’t kill our already slim chance of signing Lavine (does it?)

[CGD]

OG is about 17 million plus per season. That's a reasonable salary, but Toronto would want more than a #9 pick to give up that reasonable salary. Probably the #9 + the 20 and a young player for OG. Ayton wants a max salary that starts in the high 20 millions if not more. He would be spurs highest paid player ever --- don't think that will happen. So somewhere in between might be the sweet spot. It just depends if the spurs want to win now or kick the can down another year or two. Either way I think the spurs make at least one trade come draft night, just don't know where.

On our time horizon, OG is not worth 9 (he’s 25). I’m also not sure it’s worth swapping Jakob unless they’re making a play for Ayton as well for same the reason.

But since we’re having fun, Jakob, Romeo (filler), and 25 seems fair both both sides.

[Payote75]

I remember arguing repeatedly about Wiggins and a lot of people called him trash and look at him now he has been flourishing

same thing with Collins he is still young he is locked up his contract is not awful I'd do that in a heartbeat. It fills a huge need and can lead to other dominos.

hate to say it but I'd trade poetrl and either use him to get a pick from Charlotte plus or get other assets.

trade other salary like McNuggets and maybe Richardson although I'd like to keep him but if you can get another asset or two it almost offsets Collins salary

you sign a Mitchell Robinson

and Levine

your still ill very young almost everyone is with in the age window

you our still have plenty of picks in first round to work other stuff if you choose or strengthen your bench.

resign Walker. If you trade Richardson.

but so many other options open up you could configure it many different ways but making a 9 for Collins trade.

[Proxy]

sure, do it and get Lavine too

[stnick2261]

I’d do 20 for Colins but only if it didn’t kill our already slim chance of signing Lavine (does it?)

(McDermott, Richardson & #9) for (Collins & #16) would only move us back 7 draft spots, solidify the PF position, AND free up more cash to sign LaVine easier. I would do that trade. It would allow the Spurs to draft BPA with no need to focus on a position.

[MultiTroll]

Declining stats, injured and overpaid.

Lets keep this rolling!
Patty
LMA
Gay
:cheer:drunk:pop::drunk:cheer

Let's keep this going then give Collins a buyout in 2026!
Would be *soo classy*

[BatManu20]

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[BatManu20]

Hawks desperately need defense so I could def see this happening.

[td4mvp2k]

Hawks desperately need defense so I could def see this happening.
i'd say utah is just as desperate

[Chinook]

I think a "reasonable" good deal for the Spurs would be Collins, 16 and 44 for 9 and 25. The Spurs would still have 16, 20, 38 and 40 to use, and the Hawks get improved assets for a Capela/Gobert swap. Ideally, the Spurs would trade McDermott and Landford to not use cap space, but I could see them needing to move Richardson, Collins and Langford instead if they are to avoid missing out of their potential max offering.

[rascal]

I think a "reasonable" good deal for the Spurs would be Collins, 16 and 44 for 9 and 25. The Spurs would still have 16, 20, 38 and 40 to use, and the Hawks get improved assets for a Capela/Gobert swap. Ideally, the Spurs would trade McDermott and Landford to not use cap space, but I could see them needing to move Richardson, Collins and Langford instead if they are to avoid missing out of their potential max offering.

Spurs need to be trying to trade up not back.

Spurs need to target guys with star potential upside out of this draft, not loading the team with more role players.

[CGD]

I remember arguing repeatedly about Wiggins and a lot of people called him trash and look at him now he has been flourishing

same thing with Collins he is still young he is locked up his contract is not awful I'd do that in a heartbeat. It fills a huge need and can lead to other dominos.

hate to say it but I'd trade poetrl and either use him to get a pick from Charlotte plus or get other assets.

trade other salary like McNuggets and maybe Richardson although I'd like to keep him but if you can get another asset or two it almost offsets Collins salary

you sign a Mitchell Robinson

and Levine

your still ill very young almost everyone is with in the age window

you our still have plenty of picks in first round to work other stuff if you choose or strengthen your bench.

resign Walker. If you trade Richardson.

but so many other options open up you could configure it many different ways but making a 9 for Collins trade.

When you were arguing for Wiggins, he and his max salary was trash.

Players improve. He has. He is still overpaid though, and its just that GSW are flush with cash and dont give a damn.

[CGD]

1536725316915408896

That Rudy contract is AWFUL. Utah is going to have to attach shit to Rudy.
Still, i think a Utah-ATL trade makes sense for both sides.

[CGD]

Wasnt the rumor yesterday that ATL was going to be "Aggressive" in pursuit of Ayton? I suppose the Rudy Gobert (which i actually like for them more) takes them out of the Ayton race

[Payote75]

When you were arguing for Wiggins, he and his max salary was trash.

Players improve. He has. He is still overpaid though, and its just that GSW are flush with cash and dont give a damn.

That's the point instant gratification isn't always the answer. He was young would have better than DD and grew into this young team and had pop who mentored Kerr. Not saying it's a big deal just the point and if there is ever a time we need patience it's now or never. Point being you trade that 9 for Collins who isn't trash to that opens so many doors you can still offset his salary by trading mcnuggets and Richardson still have picks you can still trade a valuable asset in poetrl and move forward with more kids through picks sign a top free agent get more picks too just a whole bunch of doors can open. I'm all for it.

[exstatic]

Wasnt the rumor yesterday that ATL was going to be "Aggressive" in pursuit of Ayton? I suppose the Rudy Gobert (which i actually like for them more) takes them out of the Ayton race

His improvement was going from 1st option to 5th. No one pays attention to him.

[Chinook]

Spurs need to be trying to trade up not back.

Spurs need to target guys with star potential upside out of this draft, not loading the team with more role players.

Nope.

[rascal]

When you were arguing for Wiggins, he and his max salary was trash.

Players improve. He has. He is still overpaid though, and its just that GSW are flush with cash and dont give a damn.

GS is winning the championship so they are making the right moves, Spurs are getting worse every year.

[TD 21]

It'd probably take something like Richardson, Langford, 9 and 25 for Collins and 16.

We can debate the permutations, but the salient question for the Spurs would likely be: How high an upside and likelihood of hitting it do they believe the Johnson, Vassell, Primo wing troika has?

Because the trickle down effect would likely be Poeltl extended and Walker IV re-signed if they can't draft a projected plug and play wing like Agbaji or Williams, so if one of them can't at least approach star status eventually, this or a commensurate trade would more than likely cement treadmill status for the foreseeable future.

[objective]

The more I've thought it over the more I'm aboard a 9-for-Collins trade

This draft is too weak and the likely available players too limited or too raw to make a difference for years. Mathurin will probably be off the board while having his own question marks, Keegan who I don't even like is a good candidate for being off the board. I like Duren but even if he's there, will probably not be ready for 20+ minutes for a couple of seasons behind Poeltl as he learns the game.

I don't like Dyson, too stiff and upright, too limited a scorer. Underwhelmed by Sochan, not promising enough as mostly just a lateral athlete. Don't like Davis and his ballstopping, worried about Eason's feel and ability to succeed without monster usage. Mark Williams too limited. Sharpe too suspect considering it he had played be could been like Hardy or Emoni and tanked his value.

Just get Collins and have a 25 year old starter, a vertical target who shoots, rebounds, and who is a fair defender who has his moments of defensively stepping it up last playoffs.

Keldon isn't a power forward, doesn't guard anyone, offers no rim protection, doesn't rebound near as well, and is 3.5 inches smaller. Stick him at SF and keep McDermott on the bench where he belongs or put him in a trade.

Collins fits age wise with Dejounte. And if the Spurs want another 18 or 19 raw player year old to develop, just trade Murray and Poeltl while their value is high and get the tank on for real, no more half measures. Pop already has his record, don't need to chase meaningless wins anymore. Shift the timeline to Vassell and Primo and get Wambayana or Scoot or whoever next draft.

[Duncan2177]

The more I've thought it over the more I'm aboard a 9-for-Collins trade

This draft is too weak and the likely available players too limited or too raw to make a difference for years. Mathurin will probably be off the board while having his own question marks, Keegan who I don't even like is a good candidate for being off the board. I like Duren but even if he's there, will probably not be ready for 20+ minutes for a couple of seasons behind Poeltl as he learns the game.

I don't like Dyson, too stiff and upright, too limited a scorer. Underwhelmed by Sochan, not promising enough as mostly just a lateral athlete. Don't like Davis and his ballstopping, worried about Eason's feel and ability to succeed without monster usage. Mark Williams too limited. Sharpe too suspect considering it he had played be could been like Hardy or Emoni and tanked his value.

Just get Collins and have a 25 year old starter, a vertical target who shoots, rebounds, and who is a fair defender who has his moments of defensively stepping it up last playoffs.

Keldon isn't a power forward, doesn't guard anyone, offers no rim protection, doesn't rebound near as well, and is 3.5 inches smaller. Stick him at SF and keep McDermott on the bench where he belongs or put him in a trade.

Collins fits age wise with Dejounte. And if the Spurs want another 18 or 19 raw player year old to develop, just trade Murray and Poeltl while their value is high and get the tank on for real, no more half measures. Pop already has his record, don't need to chase meaningless wins anymore. Shift the timeline to Vassell and Primo and get Wambayana or Scoot or whoever next draft.

I'm glad you're not the GM.

[exstatic]

The more I've thought it over the more I'm aboard a 9-for-Collins trade

This draft is too weak and the likely available players too limited or too raw to make a difference for years. Mathurin will probably be off the board while having his own question marks, Keegan who I don't even like is a good candidate for being off the board. I like Duren but even if he's there, will probably not be ready for 20+ minutes for a couple of seasons behind Poeltl as he learns the game.

I don't like Dyson, too stiff and upright, too limited a scorer. Underwhelmed by Sochan, not promising enough as mostly just a lateral athlete. Don't like Davis and his ballstopping, worried about Eason's feel and ability to succeed without monster usage. Mark Williams too limited. Sharpe too suspect considering it he had played be could been like Hardy or Emoni and tanked his value.

Just get Collins and have a 25 year old starter, a vertical target who shoots, rebounds, and who is a fair defender who has his moments of defensively stepping it up last playoffs.

Keldon isn't a power forward, doesn't guard anyone, offers no rim protection, doesn't rebound near as well, and is 3.5 inches smaller. Stick him at SF and keep McDermott on the bench where he belongs or put him in a trade.

Collins fits age wise with Dejounte. And if the Spurs want another 18 or 19 raw player year old to develop, just trade Murray and Poeltl while their value is high and get the tank on for real, no more half measures. Pop already has his record, don't need to chase meaningless wins anymore. Shift the timeline to Vassell and Primo and get Wambayana or Scoot or whoever next draft.

The thing is, he’s not a difference maker. He’s not going to take your team on his back and lead them to the Finals. When you pay guys like that, you end up getting rid of them at a higher salary, like Indy did with Sabonis, and is now trying to do with Myles Turner. It’s also the reason that ATL has him on the block. Ayton will be in the same boat in 2-3 years.

[Chinook]

Collins is the guy you get if you believe in the current Spurs team and want someone who will compliment the guys already on the roster. He fits with Poeltl, Murray and Vassell. I think his fit with Johnson is iffy since Keldon needs someone who can guard the best forward and not just PFs, but I also think Johnson's long-term fit might be as a sixth man anyway. A guy drafted at 16 could definitely be a starter soon, though I think it would probably take another year or so for the Spurs to move Johnson to the bench. I don't know who that would be, but I feel confident someone many folks consider to be in the top 10 will be there. That could be Sochan or Davis or Duren or Eason. I'm kind of hoping it's a scoring guard, but we'll see. I like someone like LaRavia at 20 or 25. He's a solid combo-forward who'd raise the floor of the second unit. I still like a defensive guard and/or center with 38 and potentially 44.

The Spurs should go into the summer with about $30 Million in effective cap space. They'd probably keep Walker's QO and their non-guaranteed deals, but I am assuming Zach Collins was in the trade to make the numbers work. That's enough money to sign a big name (like Sexton or Bridges and maybe a max with another move) or to make a couple of speculative signings like Mo Bamba or Jalen Smith. Let's assume they sign Oladipo and Smith and draft Dieng, LaRavia and Alondes Williams. The roster would be:

Murray, Jones, Williams
Vassell, Oladipo, Primo
Johnson, McDermott, Dieng
Collins, LaRavia, KBD
Poeltl, Smith, Landale

With Wieskamp and some PF as two-way guys again. I don't think that's anywhere near a contender, but seeing as they'd have all of their future picks and some tradeable contracts, maybe they could carry some flexibility into future years.

[objective]

The thing is, he’s not a difference maker. He’s not going to take your team on his back and lead them to the Finals. When you pay guys like that, you end up getting rid of them at a higher salary, like Indy did with Sabonis, and is now trying to do with Myles Turner. It’s also the reason that ATL has him on the block. Ayton will be in the same boat in 2-3 years.

Don't think there will be a difference maker at 9. There's a fair chance there won't be anyone at 9 who will turn out so well that they will be making Collins money on their second contract.

If a difference maker is the goal, it's time to trade everyone over 23 and tank like crazy. Because I don't think guys like Davis or Sochan or Dieng are putting the Spurs on their backs and taking them to the finals.

Lots of people argue against making a move for Levine with the same argument, he's not great enough for the max plus the injuries.

Well he's the best there is potentially available, if Chicago even lets him walk without a 5 year max of their own.

[objective]

Collins is the guy you get if you believe in the current Spurs team and want someone who will compliment the guys already on the roster. He fits with Poeltl, Murray and Vassell. I think his fit with Johnson is iffy since Keldon needs someone who can guard the best forward and not just PFs, but I also think Johnson's long-term fit might be as a sixth man anyway. A guy drafted at 16 could definitely be a starter soon, though I think it would probably take another year or so for the Spurs to move Johnson to the bench. I don't know who that would be, but I feel confident someone many folks consider to be in the top 10 will be there. That could be Sochan or Davis or Duren or Eason. I'm kind of hoping it's a scoring guard, but we'll see. I like someone like LaRavia at 20 or 25. He's a solid combo-forward who'd raise the floor of the second unit. I still like a defensive guard and/or center with 38 and potentially 44.

The Spurs should go into the summer with about $30 Million in effective cap space. They'd probably keep Walker's QO and their non-guaranteed deals, but I am assuming Zach Collins was in the trade to make the numbers work. That's enough money to sign a big name (like Sexton or Bridges and maybe a max with another move) or to make a couple of speculative signings like Mo Bamba or Jalen Smith. Let's assume they sign Oladipo and Smith and draft Dieng, LaRavia and Alondes Williams. The roster would be:

Murray, Jones, Williams
Vassell, Oladipo, Primo
Johnson, McDermott, Dieng
Collins, LaRavia, KBD
Poeltl, Smith, Landale

With Wieskamp and some PF as two-way guys again. I don't think that's anywhere near a contender, but seeing as they'd have all of their future picks and some tradeable contracts, maybe they could carry some flexibility into future years.

In general I agree but do feel that a Collins fit with Poeltl isn't the best possible because Collins wants more pick and rolls and has had to sacrifice a lot of those opportunities to Capela. Poeltl doesn't need to be as close to the basket and is a better passer, but in a perfect world Collins would probably be best utilized with a stretch center like Brook Lopez

The locked on Hawks host has broken down before how much Collins' numbers have suffered from being with Capela.

[T Park]

I’d do 20 for Colins but only if it didn’t kill our already slim chance of signing Lavine (does it?)

Not that you care what I think, but I’ll quickly say yes 😂

[exstatic]

Don't think there will be a difference maker at 9. There's a fair chance there won't be anyone at 9 who will turn out so well that they will be making Collins money on their second contract.

If a difference maker is the goal, it's time to trade everyone over 23 and tank like crazy. Because I don't think guys like Davis or Sochan or Dieng are putting the Spurs on their backs and taking them to the finals.

Lots of people argue against making a move for Levine with the same argument, he's not great enough for the max plus the injuries.

Well he's the best there is potentially available, if Chicago even lets him walk without a 5 year max of their own.

We found and traded for a difference maker at 15. NO ONE saw what he would become. You just have to keep drafting, and you’ll hit a bullseye. You don’t dump everyone over 23, but you do cycle them off as you bring new talent on board.

People complain about the treadmill. John Collins IS the treadmill. LaVine IS the treadmill. You hate our own picks now at 9-12? Wait until our own pick is 15-18. That’s the treadmill.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm good either way, but the chances of #9 being better than Collins aren't good.

[objective]

We found and traded for a difference maker at 15. NO ONE saw what he would become. You just have to keep drafting, and you’ll hit a bullseye. You don’t dump everyone over 23, but you do cycle them off as you bring new talent on board.

People complain about the treadmill. John Collins IS the treadmill. LaVine IS the treadmill. You hate our own picks now at 9-12? Wait until our own pick is 15-18. That’s the treadmill.

Meh

For all we know Collins could become the difference maker away from Trae, he's made big improvements over the years. For all we know the difference between Dejounte being a fake replacement all-star and a superstar is having a vertical threat to open up his game to the next level.

You complain about picking 15 being the treadmill while at the same time pointing out Kawhi was picked 15.

There will always be outliers in the draft picked 15 or lower, second round or lower. You can get the next Kawhi, Giannis, Butler, Jokic, etc etc just as much everyone else while being a 'treadmill' team.

[Chinook]

There are more than one way to be a treadmill team. 9-12 and 15-18 are both treadmill teams, but if you get to the latter point while having all of your picks and a bunch of young players, you can make the all-in move to take that leap into contention. If you're at the former point, you're two or three moves short. Unless you still believe that bad teams can draft superstars and reliably keep them in the modern NBA, there's no question that it's better to be a mediocre team that makes the playoffs every year than a mediocre team that doesn't.

I'm a huge fan of cycling prospects, but that's not an indefinite solution for the Spurs' problems. Murray's on a timer, and while I'm not against cashing out on him at all, there's no reason to believe the Spurs will draft another All-Star any time soon. They'd be yet another big move short of making noise. They can always tear down and collect assets. Memphis showed that. Houston shows that. The team isn't losing anything if they decide to go for it a bit. They don't lose their ability to draft and "take shots". They just lose the incentive to draft raw guys and go for home runs rather than guys who can help them as a floor. Leonard was a win-now player who became a superstar. Butler is similar. Davis, Eason or even Obaji could follow suit.

[exstatic]

Meh

For all we know Collins could become the difference maker away from Trae, he's made big improvements over the years. For all we know the difference between Dejounte being a fake replacement all-star and a superstar is having a vertical threat to open up his game to the next level.

You complain about picking 15 being the treadmill while at the same time pointing out Kawhi was picked 15.

There will always be outliers in the draft picked 15 or lower, second round or lower. You can get the next Kawhi, Giannis, Butler, Jokic, etc etc just as much everyone else while being a 'treadmill' team.

Collins was in Atlanta for two years before Trae, put up even better numbers including a legit no rounding 20/10 season, and they did even make the playoffs.

Outliers are called that for a reason. You’re much more likely to “hit” even in the late lottery than outside of it. If you keep your cap sheet relatively clean, you can do what we’re doing this year, have that late lottery pick AND some fliers, but not if you clog your cap with mid players, AND give up assets to acquire them.

[CGD]

There are more than one way to be a treadmill team. 9-12 and 15-18 are both treadmill teams, but if you get to the latter point while having all of your picks and a bunch of young players, you can make the all-in move to take that leap into contention. If you're at the former point, you're two or three moves short. Unless you still believe that bad teams can draft superstars and reliably keep them in the modern NBA, there's no question that it's better to be a mediocre team that makes the playoffs every year than a mediocre team that doesn't.

I'm a huge fan of cycling prospects, but that's not an indefinite solution for the Spurs' problems. Murray's on a timer, and while I'm not against cashing out on him at all, there's no reason to believe the Spurs will draft another All-Star any time soon. They'd be yet another big move short of making noise. They can always tear down and collect assets. Memphis showed that. Houston shows that. The team isn't losing anything if they decide to go for it a bit. They don't lose their ability to draft and "take shots". They just lose the incentive to draft raw guys and go for home runs rather than guys who can help them as a floor. Leonard was a win-now player who became a superstar. Butler is similar. Davis, Eason or even Obaji could follow suit.

This is why I think the spurs won’t be able to help themselves when it comes to Ayton.

[Chinook]

This is why I think the spurs won’t be able to help themselves when it comes to Ayton.

I think if they trade Poeltl during the draft, they'll make on offer on Ayton. But I think they like Jakob enough to where they won't feel the need to aggressively pursue a starting center.

[John B]

I think if they trade Poeltl during the draft, they'll make on offer on Ayton. But I think they like Jakob enough to where they won't feel the need to aggressively pursue a starting center.

I mean if they have Sochan who is a great help defender, Poeltl could work. And we all hope that Devin would make that great leap because the Spurs are in dire need of an offensive power, and Keldon can magically gets lateral lateral to cover faster SF. Man this makes me think of Spurs rolling with the same guys another year is making me sad :cry

[Chinook]

I mean if they have Sochan who is a great help defender, Poeltl could work. And we all hope that Devin would make that great leap because the Spurs are in dire need of an offensive power, and Keldon can magically gets lateral lateral to cover faster SF. Man this makes me think of Spurs rolling with the same guys another year is making me sad :cry

Nothing about our random speculation would make me conclude anything. I think, though, that the Spurs aren't likely to address their true top need (a featured scorer) in the draft. That was much more likely to happen in free agency. I do think getting a forward who can "unlock" Keldon is a possible path forward. He's a negative player right now because of his defense, but I do believe in his scoring potential. Sochan, Eason and maybe even LaRavia could help hide Johnson to allow his strengths to show more easily.

I don't favor the Spurs basically running it back. I'm much more in favor of them aggressively acquiring two players who can be part of a playoff core. I've talked about Lavine, Sexton, Oladipo, John Collins, Jerami Grant, even Julius Randle. Balancing out aggressive moves with solid role-players in the draft is fine. I wouldn't like to see basically the same roster plus four more picks though.

Murray, Jones, A Williams
Primo, Walker, Agbaji, Stewart
Vassell, McDermott, Wieskamp Woodard
Johnson, LaRavia, KBD Landale
Poeltl, Collins, Duren, Cacock

That would be a pretty cluttered roster. It wouldn't be untenable, but I'd hope for at least one big trade to get rid of the chaff.

[John B]

Nothing about our random speculation would make me conclude anything. I think, though, that the Spurs aren't likely to address their true top need (a featured scorer) in the draft. That was much more likely to happen in free agency. I do think getting a forward who can "unlock" Keldon is a possible path forward. He's a negative player right now because of his defense, but I do believe in his scoring potential. Sochan, Eason and maybe even LaRavia could help hide Johnson to allow his strengths to show more easily.

I don't favor the Spurs basically running it back. I'm much more in favor of them aggressively acquiring two players who can be part of a playoff core. I've talked about Lavine, Sexton, Oladipo, John Collins, Jerami Grant, even Julius Randle. Balancing out aggressive moves with solid role-players in the draft is fine. I wouldn't like to see basically the same roster plus four more picks though.

Murray, Jones, A Williams
Primo, Walker, Agbaji, Stewart
Vassell, McDermott, Wieskamp Woodard
Johnson, LaRavia, KBD Landale
Poeltl, Collins, Duren, Cacock

That would be a pretty cluttered roster. It wouldn't be untenable, but I'd hope for at least one big trade to get rid of the chaff.

One look and seeing Keldon at PF makes me sad. That’s like getting sweaters for Christmas

If there’s anything these ST bitches agree on, is not to see Keldon at PF with Poeltl. That’s just wrong

[Kevin]

So from what I've gathered in this thread and others is that only elite players and prospects with no injury history are worth acquiring. Everyone else is an unadvisable addition because they're treadmill acquisitions.

Spurs shouldn't max out LaVine because of injury history or Ayton because of his scoring limitations. Realistically what do people want? The Spurs didn't win the lottery and aren't adding an elite prospect for free. If you want to add proven talent like LaVine and Ayton its going to be risky. You want to move into the top 4 its going to cost Keldon and next years first with limited protection. If you want to stay put at the 9 whoever will be available will have limitations.

[Mr. Body]

Collins, Grant, Sexton have to be the least impressive available players I've ever seen. There's a reason these teams are trying to dump them.

[objective]

I'd much prefer Collins over Ayton. Ayton might be better overall, but they will both cost a fair amount, but the gap between Poeltl and Ayton is smaller than that of McDermott or Johnson at PF compared to Collins. Plus Ayton will probably cost an extra 10 million or so per year.

They both are a risk for getting suspended for juicing, so can't hold it against either one

[poopbox]

I think if they trade Poeltl during the draft, they'll make on offer on Ayton. But I think they like Jakob enough to where they won't feel the need to aggressively pursue a starting center.

They like the fact his salary is 9 million dollars.

If Ayton told the spurs he would sign with them tomorrow then Poeltl would be traded before midnight. Going from Poeltl to Ayton at center is about as big of a semi realistic upgrade we can make on this team.

[Dverde]

They like the fact his salary is 9 million dollars.

If Ayton told the spurs he would sign with them tomorrow then Poeltl would be traded before midnight. Going from Poeltl to Ayton at center is about as big of a semi realistic upgrade we can make on this team.

Ayton is restricted so he can’t just decide to play for us. As others have mentioned, if this guy can’t play for Monty, Spurs are not going to max contract him. Suns are going to keep him or want assets back in a sign and trade.

[scott]

So from what I've gathered in this thread and others is that only elite players and prospects with no injury history are worth acquiring. Everyone else is an unadvisable addition because they're treadmill acquisitions.

Spurs shouldn't max out LaVine because of injury history or Ayton because of his scoring limitations. Realistically what do people want? The Spurs didn't win the lottery and aren't adding an elite prospect for free. If you want to add proven talent like LaVine and Ayton its going to be risky. You want to move into the top 4 its going to cost Keldon and next years first with limited protection. If you want to stay put at the 9 whoever will be available will have limitations.

Welcome to ST, where no player is good enough, especially not our own (but not anyone else either)

[rjv]

Welcome to ST, where no player is good enough, especially not our own (but not anyone else either)

hell, even some of our hall of fame players and coach haven't been good enough.

[SAGirl]

This rumor feels like Atlanta trying to angle for a trade with Portland.

[Ignazzz]

7th is better then 9th

[BatManu20]

1538910184092876801

[KingKev]

They can have McDougal, Langford and 20 or 25. Nothing more.

[DPG21920]

Spurs should definitely try to get Collins. Hes young enough, established enough and helps move the team forward talent wise and position of need. SA has cap space they need to use before it dries up and if they want to move the timeline up a little this is a low risk deal as he can be moved later if need be.

It should not take “much” to get him. McDermott + Richardson + 9 for Collins + 16

If you can keep 9 and get him still? Even more no brainer.

[Dverde]

Spurs should definitely try to get Collins. Hes young enough, established enough and helps move the team forward talent wise and position of need. SA has cap space they need to use before it dries up and if they want to move the timeline up a little this is a low risk deal as he can be moved later if need be.

It should not take “much” to get him. McDermott + Richardson + 9 for Collins + 16

If you can keep 9 and get him still? Even more no brainer.

I think if the Spurs gave up #9 the deal would be done. I think Spurs are definitely offer #20 and maybe #25 with it. Not a big John Collins fan, so I hope they don’t offer up to much for him. I think they’ll do it for #20 if they don’t get a better offer. Richardson is a solid addition and he’s expiring.

[CGD]

Set aside Portland, who else are his rumored suitors?

[Leetonidas]

Supposedly the Hawks and Kings are discussing a Collins trade that does not include the 4th pick

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs should definitely try to get Collins. Hes young enough, established enough and helps move the team forward talent wise and position of need. SA has cap space they need to use before it dries up and if they want to move the timeline up a little this is a low risk deal as he can be moved later if need be.

It should not take “much” to get him. McDermott + Richardson + 9 for Collins + 16

If you can keep 9 and get him still? Even more no brainer.

I doubt the Spurs would give up 9. Poeltl is the valuable trade piece. That‘s why I‘d rather go after OG. Teams like the Kings and the Blazers will probably offer more, but then again what do they have to offer. I‘m all for getting Collins, but can‘t see the Spurs putting together a good enough package

[RC_Drunkford]

Kings would probably offer Harrison Barnes and Divicenzo. Blazers Josh Hart or the 7th pick. None of those players are attractive, but 7th might. I think Dallas and Utah could be candidates

[DPG21920]

Would Spurs fans do:

ATL Gets: Vassell + Doug + 25

SA Gets: Collins + 16

The way I look at it: Spurs are paying Doug 13.75M no matter what, so would you rather that 13.75 go towards Collins instead and pay Collins 13M additional (making him functionally a 13M a year player for SA)? On top of addressing biggest positional need and still maintaining cap space to sign additional talent? Plus SA gets to keep 9 and move up 9 spots from 25 to 16.

It tough, I love Vassell and think hes likely worth keeping instead of doing this deal, but I figure this is what a deal would likely look like more or less.

Would y’all do it?

[mo7888]

Would Spurs fans do:

ATL Gets: Vassell + Doug + 25

SA Gets: Collins + 16

The way I look at it: Spurs are paying Doug 13.75M no matter what, so would you rather that 13.75 go towards Collins instead and pay Collins 13M additional (making him functionally a 13M a year player for SA)? On top of addressing biggest positional need and still maintaining cap space to sign additional talent? Plus SA gets to keep 9 and move up 9 spots from 25 to 16.

It tough, I love Vassell and think hes likely worth keeping instead of doing this deal, but I figure this is what a deal would likely look like more or less.

Would y’all do it?

It really depends on what other options are out there but I'd probably pass..

[slick'81]

It really depends on what other options are out there but I'd probably pass..


yea ,definitely no go

[DPG21920]

It really depends on what other options are out there but I'd probably pass..

Do we feel confident Vassell will exceed the quality of player of Collins and any thoughts on Keldon being a 3 and their being overlap and this locking in more balanced talent vs the overlap?

[Leetonidas]

I'd rather have Vassell over Collins. I like Collins but I don't think his ceiling is much higher whereas I think Vassell has barely scratched the surface

[KingKev]

Do we feel confident Vassell will exceed the quality of player of Collins and any thoughts on Keldon being a 3 and their being overlap and this locking in more balanced talent vs the overlap?

Vassell, Keldon and Primo can be replaced easily in this draft alone so they should be considerations in a Collins trade if ATL want to eat McLovin.

[TD 21]

Do we feel confident Vassell will exceed the quality of player of Collins and any thoughts on Keldon being a 3 and their being overlap and this locking in more balanced talent vs the overlap?

I don't think either team does that trade and Vassell is a 3/2 while Johnson is a 3/4, in a league where wings typically populate 2-4 simultaneously, so no, there's not overlap.

[spurraider21]

Spurs should definitely try to get Collins. Hes young enough, established enough and helps move the team forward talent wise and position of need. SA has cap space they need to use before it dries up and if they want to move the timeline up a little this is a low risk deal as he can be moved later if need be.

It should not take “much” to get him. McDermott + Richardson + 9 for Collins + 16

If you can keep 9 and get him still? Even more no brainer.
my thoughts as well

i like collins a lot. the fit is obvious. #9 seems steep though. would consider a trade inovlving a swap where we still take #16 though.

if josh richardson is valued as a late first (a first from a contender), maybe a deal where we get collins and 16 for 9, richardson, mcdermott, or something along those lines

[DPG21920]

If we can keep Vassell and Keldon I easily do it. If it’s involving Vassell? Gets tougher.

[Dverde]

I’d rather keep Devin over Keldon at this point. I can sorta see Keldon’s apex right now, but Devin is still developing his game.

[FutureMan]

Vassell, Keldon and Primo can be replaced easily in this draft alone so they should be considerations in a Collins trade if ATL want to eat McLovin.

Unless it’s for a real star I can’t see the Spurs trading any of their draft picks like Vassell and Primo.

[poopbox]

I like Collins but not trading Devin for him. I think Devin is going to have a breakout dejountesque year.

[RC_Drunkford]

I‘m not trading Vassell for Collins. Anything involving J-Rich, McDermott or Poeltl and a pick in the 20s I‘d pull the trigger on

[DPG21920]

What if they insist on 9 if SA won’t put Vassell in?

[slick'81]

What if they insist on 9 if SA won’t put Vassell in?


then no trade

[DPG21920]

I would rather do 9 + McDermott + Richardson than Vassell tbh

[RC_Drunkford]

What if they insist on 9 if SA won’t put Vassell in?

I‘m not doing that. And I really like Collins fit, but they not getting 9. I think they would do Collins for Brogdon straight up, but the question would be what does Indiana want for Brogdon?

[tonight...you]

I just think Collins is a tread water thing.
And a lot of that comes from his janky injury history and his commitment to playing winning basketball.
Talented as Hell, but I see no team commitment.
Pop ain't going to fix that.

[talkspurs]

i would do 9 for 16 as long as they took back mcdermott.

[objective]

I just think Collins is a tread water thing.
And a lot of that comes from his janky injury history and his commitment to playing winning basketball.
Talented as Hell, but I see no team commitment.
Pop ain't going to fix that.

I think his injury history is overhyped.

What's under hyped is one more positive performance juice test fail and he's suspended 55 games. One more after that and he's banned from the league.

[SAGirl]

Would Spurs fans do:

ATL Gets: Vassell + Doug + 25

SA Gets: Collins + 16

The way I look at it: Spurs are paying Doug 13.75M no matter what, so would you rather that 13.75 go towards Collins instead and pay Collins 13M additional (making him functionally a 13M a year player for SA)? On top of addressing biggest positional need and still maintaining cap space to sign additional talent? Plus SA gets to keep 9 and move up 9 spots from 25 to 16.

It tough, I love Vassell and think hes likely worth keeping instead of doing this deal, but I figure this is what a deal would likely look like more or less.

Would y’all do it?
I am still bullish on Vassell so I wouldn’t do it.

[mo7888]

i would do 9 for 16 as long as they took back mcdermott.

If these are off the board at 9...then I'd do the 9 for 16 swap if the take Doug and we get JC..

Paolo Banchero
Jabari Smith
Chet Holmgren
Jaden Ivey
Keegan Murray
Benedict Mathurin
Jalen Duren

[TimmehC]

If it comes down to it, I would trade Keldon before I'd trade Vassell. Devin just has fewer obvious flaws in his game, while KJ has some glaring limitations.

To make the money work, you're probably sending McD, Zollins and Keldon, along with a pick swap. If you're confident you can keep J. Collins healthy, that's a good trade. I'm not confident about that myself, but the front office has a lot more Intel and experience than I do.

[mo7888]

If it comes down to it, I would trade Keldon before I'd trade Vassell. Devin just has fewer obvious flaws in his game, while KJ has some glaring limitations.

To make the money work, you're probably sending McD, Zollins and Keldon, along with a pick swap. If you're confident you can keep J. Collins healthy, that's a good trade. I'm not confident about that myself, but the front office has a lot more Intel and experience than I do.

You don't have to send anyone to make the money work...

[TimmehC]

You don't have to send anyone to make the money work...

Sure, if you wait until July to finalize it. Good point.

[exstatic]

For someone his age, he misses too much time. Mr. Glass.

[DPG21920]

I am still bullish on Vassell so I wouldn’t do it.

Agree. But it’s close for me and I think that’s what it would take

[rankingtear]

They are not trading Devin for Collins. Devin would make that 3rd year jump. He has more value in a playoff series than Collins. Collins is an extremely dependent player, his value diminishes if you don't have a center that can shoot or a PG that run a ton of pick and rolls. Analytical inclined posters love these efficient dependent players thinking you can build an offense with 5 of them. Zero creation upside.According to Jake Fischer the last time SAS had a interest in Collins was 2 years ago when we still had the old guys.

[Payote75]

Collins and Ayton make this team a force inmthe Western conference trading McNuggets Richardson basically washes Collins salary out trading Poetrl creates that much more or include him in Ayton sign and trade if you can't sign Jim out right if you could itts even better because of the extra assets you could create.

murray
vassell
collins
ayton
johnson

[Ignazzz]

I am surprised that almost all ST is against John Collins even with very low price ( without #9 or bad contract other direction) same time overhyped Poeltl with huge priceing ( wrf 13&15). Poeltl is having FT% problems all time 46!!!/50/49 ladt 3 years). Dont get it. It seems that Poeltl is overvalued here. Same time no for Collins, yes for OG ( but cheap priced) or PJ Washington for nothing (25??? And McD???). Funny Indiana Pacers ideas with Brogdon and Turner for useless players for Indy.

shame on You guys.

take a look from other team perspective.

[XDT76]

I am surprised that almost all ST is against John Collins even with very low price ( without #9 or bad contract other direction) same time overhyped Poeltl with huge priceing ( wrf 13&15). Poeltl is having FT% problems all time 46!!!/50/49 ladt 3 years). Dont get it. It seems that Poeltl is overvalued here. Same time no for Collins, yes for OG ( but cheap priced) or PJ Washington for nothing (25??? And McD???). Funny Indiana Pacers ideas with Brogdon and Turner for useless players for Indy.

shame on You guys.

take a look from other team perspective.

We are the Spurs no reason to look at other teams perspective. We are okay to trade Poeltl but does not need to trade him, so if the trade is not favorable to us we don't trade. Colins can help but we do not need to trade for him, he is not going to move the needles much and at a steep price, again if the trade is not favorable we don't trade. It is like Kawhi case we wanna move him so we lose out, we do not need to move White thus we win out.