Weakest Champs of all time. Rate the 22 Warriors

[MultiTroll]

Criteria:
Ref aided, injuries to other teams, own incompetence of players, incompetence of coach.

1. 2002 Lakers
2. 2015 Warriors
3. 2022 Warriors
4. 2009 Lakers

[lefty]

2007 Spurs tbh

[daslicer]

2007 Spurs tbh

It was definitely the weakest title out of the 5 titles the Spurs won.

[MultiTroll]

2007 Spurs tbh
Would have beaten a better team had the Least put one in front of them.

[lefty]

It was definitely the weakest title out of the 5 titles the Spurs won.
And I'm not complaining, a title is a title :lol

[daslicer]

And I'm not complaining, a title is a title :lol

Agreed

[InRareForm]

2006 heat were ass

[lefty]

2006 heat were ass
They really were, Mavs fucked up

[Mitch]

1-5: Spur teams, any order*.

* - 1999 must include an asterisk for exhibition season championship

[Texas_Ranger]

this is their second most impressive one after the first one. The ones with Durant are worth nothing.

[The Gemini Method]

I'd say this was an actually pretty impressive one for the Warriors. With all the questions that have been around this franchise since Klay went down and KD left for Brooklyn in 2019. Curry and Green in their late primes. Wiggins forever being a what if. two G-League developed players in GP II and Jordan Poole and a 100 million dollar contract (once upon a time) Otto Porter Jr. Team wasn't legendary and probably lucked out the Bucks were without Middleton, but this team is smart and that was indicative on how they handled the Celtics.

[Thread]

Only pussies & assholes rate Champs.

[ambchang]

Only pussies & assholes rate Champs.

Phil Jackson did. So you have no room.

[ambchang]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-mickey-mouse-smiling-hi-greet-gif-15647054

[KobesAchilles]

Seattle SuperSonics are probably the worst of all time

[bdictjames]

2011 Mavs
2006 Heat

These come to mind.

[baseline bum]

Seattle SuperSonics are probably the worst of all time

No way, Minneapolis Lakers or anyone else from the pre-Russell era. They'd get beat by good high school teams these days.

[ambchang]

No way, Minneapolis Lakers or anyone else from the pre-Russell era. They'd get beat by good high school teams these days.

Teams have to be compared based on their eras. Those teams were clearly head and shoulders above their competition and stacked up well against the other champs during those days.

The bullets and sonics were just bad when compared to the blazers before them or the lakers and Celtics after them. Those were two down years like the Covid lockdown champs.

[KobesAchilles]

Teams have to be compared based on their eras. Those teams were clearly head and shoulders above their competition and stacked up well against the other champs during those days.

The bullets and sonics were just bad when compared to the blazers before them or the lakers and Celtics after them. Those were two down years like the Covid lockdown champs.
I still don’t see how Wes Unseld won an MVP. Makes zero sense to me. I think the players voted for him too. The dude wasn’t even a top 5 player in the league. He averaged less than 14 points :lol

[lefty]

1-5: Spur teams, any order*.

* - 1999 must include an asterisk for exhibition season championship
Except the 2nd round

[baseline bum]

Teams have to be compared based on their eras. Those teams were clearly head and shoulders above their competition and stacked up well against the other champs during those days.

The bullets and sonics were just bad when compared to the blazers before them or the lakers and Celtics after them. Those were two down years like the Covid lockdown champs.

Still kind of funny how those shitty Jack Sikma Sonics teams kicked Kareem's ass in the playoffs even with two HOF teammates in Dantley and Wilkes plus an up and coming PG in Nixon. Not like Kareem was playing with LeBron's 09 supporting cast. :lol

[baseline bum]

I still don’t see how Wes Unseld won an MVP. Makes zero sense to me. I think the players voted for him too. The dude wasn’t even a top 5 player in the league. He averaged less than 14 points :lol

I think the Bullets going from 36 wins to 57 wins and the best record in the league after drafting Unseld was huge for why he got it. Plus the league had just watched Russell dominate it for more than a decade and Unseld looked a lot like the next Russell in that he was an extremely strong rebounder and post defender who got his team lots of easy fast break opportunities from his elite outlet passing.

[MultiTroll]

Still kind of funny how those shitty Jack Sikma Sonics teams kicked Kareem's ass in the playoffs even with two HOF teammates in Dantley and Wilkes plus an up and coming PG in Nixon. Not like Kareem was playing with LeBron's 09 supporting cast. :lol
Summer after the 79 Championship there was blowout problems with the cheapskate owner.
Sonics repeat and we don't have the beginning of HBO's Winning Time depicting 1980.

That Sonics team was good, don't know what the others are attempting to fabricate.

[baseline bum]

Summer after the 79 Championship there was blowout problems with the cheapskate owner.
Sonics repeat and we don't have the beginning of HBO's Winning Time depicting 1980.

That Sonics team was good, don't know what the others are attempting to fabricate.

Meh 52 wins in 78-79 in a weak league where the best player (Walton) was out for the season. They basically brought the same team back in 79-80 so don't see what you're complaining about with the owner there.

[MultiTroll]

Meh 52 wins in 78-79 in a weak league where the best player (Walton) was out for the season. They basically brought the same team back in 79-80 so don't see what you're complaining about with the owner there.
My history was off. 80-81 was the year MVP Gus Williams sat out.
So ya, may have had to endure the Laker Phaggots regardless.

[Bynumite]

The weakest, most TOSB version of this Warriors dynasty and yet, they never faced elimination these playoffs.

Today's NBA :lol

[ambchang]

I still don’t see how Wes Unseld won an MVP. Makes zero sense to me. I think the players voted for him too. The dude wasn’t even a top 5 player in the league. He averaged less than 14 points :lol

He set mean picks. It’s like nurkic getting the mvp.

[ambchang]

Still kind of funny how those shitty Jack Sikma Sonics teams kicked Kareem's ass in the playoffs even with two HOF teammates in Dantley and Wilkes plus an up and coming PG in Nixon. Not like Kareem was playing with LeBron's 09 supporting cast. :lol

Kareem is pretty overrated in general and absolutely illustrated how teammates and competition play a huge role of how high a player ranks. Imagine hakeem not having Rudy T or Kobe staying in Charlotte, jordan without Pippen or magic drafted by Chicago. Bird without mchale parish or DJ. Thurmond switching roles with russell. Drexler having hakeem instead of Sam Bowie early in his career. Duncan playing with Antoine walker.

Conversely imagine tmac playing with shaq and mvpau. Vince carter replacing Tony Parker. Paul Pierce with mvpau and odom.

And of course there are these narratives. If Kenny smith didn’t work for tnt hakeem would be ranked in the lower teens instead of 8 to 12 all time. If the bad boys were not destroying jordan isiah would be ranked much higher. Same with if Duncan was in a big market and conversely if any of those laker players were in small markets. Willis reed playing in NY had a huge impact of why he’s considered a legend. Lebron went from clearly worse than jordan to arguable better than jordan the second he signed for the lakers. It was hilarious.

[Dirks_Finale]

07 Spurs
06 cHeat

Both were weaker.

[KobesAchilles]

07 Spurs
06 cHeat

Both were weaker.
I actually think the 2007 Spurs is a horrible match up for Golden St. Draymond couldn’t guard Duncan. Put Bowen on Klay and keep him out of the series. Let Curry get his but have him guard TP or Manu the entire series. I say the Spurs win that pretty easily.

[KobesAchilles]

I think the Bullets going from 36 wins to 57 wins and the best record in the league after drafting Unseld was huge for why he got it. Plus the league had just watched Russell dominate it for more than a decade and Unseld looked a lot like the next Russell in that he was an extremely strong rebounder and post defender who got his team lots of easy fast break opportunities from his elite outlet passing.
I did a quick season recap and I think it was what you say with the Bullets improvement that year. They came outta nowhere even though they got swept in the playoffs. But I also feel like there was Wilt fatigue. Dude put up better numbers on a great Laker team but had won like 3 in a row so they were looking for new blood. I actually think West could’ve won it or Reed. Wes should’ve been like 4th objectively

[lefty]

The weakest, most TOSB version of this Warriors dynasty and yet, they never faced elimination these playoffs.

Today's NBA :lol

This is the best Durantless Warriors team
Steph is better than ever, he has gotten stronger and his handles are even better than last season.
Sure Klay has been just ok, but the pre-Durant Warrriors didn’t have that depth with Poole, Wiggins and Payton

Also lol at the TOSB Bulls battling the TOSB Jazz in the late 90s
:lol Yesterday’s NBA

[Dirks_Finale]

I actually think the 2007 Spurs is a horrible match up for Golden St. Draymond couldn’t guard Duncan. Put Bowen on Klay and keep him out of the series. Let Curry get his but have him guard TP or Manu the entire series. I say the Spurs win that pretty easily.

Duncan is not very effective in that series, imo. Warriors in 6.

[baseline bum]

Duncan is not very effective in that series, imo. Warriors in 6.

Old ass 2013 Duncan put up 20/10 on the Warriors in their series back when they had Bogut. Pretty sure 2007 Duncan would mop the floor with just Green and Loony. 2007 Spurs would destroy this 2022 Warriors team. 2015 Warriors would have been a very tough matchup for the 07 Spurs though.

[baseline bum]

I actually think the 2007 Spurs is a horrible match up for Golden St. Draymond couldn’t guard Duncan. Put Bowen on Klay and keep him out of the series. Let Curry get his but have him guard TP or Manu the entire series. I say the Spurs win that pretty easily.

No reason to waste Bruce on washed up 36% shooting Klay. Put him on Curry so Parker's not chasing him around screens all night.

[MultiTroll]

No reason to waste Bruce on washed up 36% shooting Klay. Put him on Curry so Parker's not chasing him around screens all night.
Combined with Parker on offense blowing by Curry 10/10.

Phaggot Kerr thinking punk Payton or Pussy Poole would stop Parker -same end result.

[lefty]

And Curry would light up Parker with ease

[Rummpd]

1-5: Spur teams, any order*.

* - 1999 must include an asterisk for exhibition season championship
Hilariously weak take coming from fan of real exhibition pixie no travel bubble fraud psuedo champs (Fakers) that did not even make playoffs two years later.

[Thread]

Hilariously weak take coming from fan of real exhibition pixie no travel bubble fraud psuedo champs (Fakers) that did not even make playoffs two years later.

They was selling your shit.

[ambchang]

Bowen will break currys ankles.

[baseline bum]

They was selling your shit.

LOL Trump celebrating victory early until the votes from Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia came in and knocked that nazi out of power.

[Mark Celibate]

I would put them right around the Kobe/Pau Lakers, maybe slightly below imho

[Fat Brandon Bass]

Criteria:
Ref aided, injuries to other teams, own incompetence of players, incompetence of coach.

1. 2002 Lakers
2. 2015 Warriors
3. 2022 Warriors
4. 2009 Lakers

M 18 Indian from Canada here, my dad is 46 and a busy workaholic who came to Canada for work after his college and he's still more of the Indian side.
My mom is 40 and she's a entrepreneur, also a realtor who is quite successful too. She's more of a Canadian as she landed here after her school and did her University studies here. She got her Canadian citizenship before dad and she looks more like women from Canada.
Coloured blonde hair with Indian look, toned fit body as she's a fitness freak who workouts everyday. Not sure due to the blonde colouring or her fit physique, she looks more like a 30 year old woman. I have seen a lot of guys hitting on her during parties in clubs and in house parties which she usually attends.
I'm pretty much active in Reddit, Discord and i made a friend here who's from my city, he's a Canadian and Bull who had few regular sessions with some couples before. We got in touch and became good friends in a short span of time even though i'm 18 and he's 27. I introduced him to my parents and he became a friend of them soon, he visited my home regularly and had a close bond with our home.
A week ago, he wanted to confess something to me. He slept with my mom as my mom wanted him to be her Bull, the whole thing was allowed by dad and i got to know he's a cuck who wanted to try this and was waiting for the chance for a long time. Both of my parent wanted this to be a discreet thing, but the bull confessed it to me as he doesn't want to do this anymore on my back.
Dad has allowed mom and her bull to meet themselves as he's a busy working person, dad is ok with the bull taking mom to dinner dates and other places. It was hard for me to process everything, but i had to accept it after reading their conversations.
This has been happening for a couple of months, dad and mom inviting my friend sometimes at nights for the cuckold session and at the end dad cleaning up mom. Mom had a MFM with my bull friend and his gym mate few weeks back in motel as she wanted to try a threesome itseems. I'm not sure why they did that in a motel.
I don't know why, i feel like a cuckson now but i'm completely ok with it. Maybe it's because, the bull who's fucking my mom now is a guy who i introduced to her. It's totally their wish and decision, i completely accept that and i'm happy she's getting the pleasure she deserves. I also feel kinky that the guy who i introduced to them is their Bull now.
But, will it be a wrong thing if i ask the bull about his sessions with mom everytime?... I kind of feel proud for helping my mom to get her first bull in an indirect way. Also being a young horny guy who is interested in cuckolding stuffs, i want to hear about his experiences and sessions with my very own mom the next day.
Will it be wrong if i give unique dating ideas to him, like helping him to take mom for a date which she will enjoy a lot?. Choosing outfits for mom which the bull will ask her to wear it for their date and meetups. I'm totally confused and i need your help to figure this out. The good and safe thing in this is, whatever help i do to the bull. She won't be aware of it or know that i'm aware about this cuckold relationship of her. I don't have any incest feelings towards her, so don't take me wrong.
(P.S : I have added a Google drive folder link below which has pictures and reels videos of my mom, so that you can understand what sort of woman the bull is into)
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=15IMuNamrSfTCqBs5odrCXXIIyjPDP4gI

[Thread]

LOL Trump celebrating victory early until the votes from Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia came in and knocked that nazi out of power.

Trump President.
Not Clinton.

[baseline bum]

Trump President.
Not Clinton.

Thought you were at 270 that night only to choke all the way down to 232.

[Thread]

Thought you were at 270 that night only to choke all the way down to 232.


Trump President.
Not Clinton.

[baseline bum]

Tired old shitbag Biden 306
Tired old shitbag Nazi 232

[lefty]

No reason to waste Bruce on washed up 36% shooting Klay. Put him on Curry so Parker's not chasing him around screens all night.
I don’t think Spurs have anyone who. an guard Steph, except Kawhi

[daslicer]

Duncan is not very effective in that series, imo. Warriors in 6.

Duncan was still in his prime in '07. I don't know how he would not be effective against the Warriors. Looney and Draymond would be lightweights for Duncan to handle. You of all people should know this after the numbers Duncan put up against Dampier, Diop, Mbenga who are all on the same level as Looney but taller and stronger.

[daslicer]

I actually think the 2007 Spurs is a horrible match up for Golden St. Draymond couldn’t guard Duncan. Put Bowen on Klay and keep him out of the series. Let Curry get his but have him guard TP or Manu the entire series. I say the Spurs win that pretty easily.

There is an old interview from 8 or 9 years ago where Curry is talking to Simmons and saying Parker is the hardest player in the league for him to match up against. This was Parker at the tail end at his prime. '07 Parker would have scorched him.

The Warriors also are a physical team with Draymond being allowed to play 90's to mid '00s defense. None of the Spurs big 3 would be phased by it like other teams are simply because they all had to play it much more physical era. So that advantage would have been taken away.

[Neo.]

Duncan was still in his prime in '07. I don't know how he would not be effective against the Warriors. Looney and Draymond would be lightweights for Duncan to handle. You of all people should know this after the numbers Duncan put up against Dampier, Diop, Mbenga who are all on the same level as Looney but taller and stronger.

if you're really saying that damp and diop were better defenders than draymond, or that the mavericks had anywhere near as good of a defensive scheme as the warriors, you're nuts

sure draymond is shorter, but the warriors defensive scheme does such a phenomenal job of overcoming his size and making ball movement difficult, and draymond does a very good job of using his hands and strength to bother post-up players until the help defense does their job. looney does a solid job of making people work as well, to buy time for the help. the warriors have maybe the best help defense schemes ive ever seen, its incredible how well they study teams, their tendencies, and adjust so quickly to counter adjustments.

not saying the warriors would win such a series, but just that when people look at everything in terms of individual matchups, thats a very narrowminded way to view it. id venture to say that if the warriors wanted to drastically reduce duncans stats, they absolutely could. the thing that made the spurs great was they had a great coach and great cast of players that could step in when one player was being targeted heavily. in that series against dallas, the mavs were mostly focused on limiting parker, and did so very well, but as a result they still nearly lost the series because guys like timmy and manu took great advantage of the extra attention given to tony.

[Neo.]

There is an old interview from 8 or 9 years ago where Curry is talking to Simmons and saying Parker is the hardest player in the league for him to match up against. This was Parker at the tail end at his prime. '07 Parker would have scorched him.

again, not so simple, especially when they could just put steph on bruce and let wiggins focus on parker. parker never had the jumpshot to demand switches off picks, so they can involve steph in all the pick action they want, the warriors could just go under everything and force parker to play against tougher defenders. thats pretty much what the mavs did in 06 and tony was terrible in that series.

[daslicer]

if you're really saying that damp and diop were better defenders than draymond, or that the mavericks had anywhere near as good of a defensive scheme as the warriors, you're nuts

sure draymond is shorter, but the warriors defensive scheme does such a phenomenal job of overcoming his size and making ball movement difficult, and draymond does a very good job of using his hands and strength to bother post-up players until the help defense does their job. looney does a solid job of making people work as well, to buy time for the help. the warriors have maybe the best help defense schemes ive ever seen, its incredible how well they study teams, their tendencies, and adjust so quickly to counter adjustments.

not saying the warriors would win such a series, but just that when people look at everything in terms of individual matchups, thats a very narrowminded way to view it. id venture to say that if the warriors wanted to drastically reduce duncans stats, they absolutely could. the thing that made the spurs great was they had a great coach and great cast of players that could step in when one player was being targeted heavily. in that series against dallas, the mavs were mostly focused on limiting parker, and did so very well, but as a result they still nearly lost the series because guys like timmy and manu took great advantage of the extra attention given to tony.

I don't see Duncan struggling against Draymond. The guy that gave Duncan the most problems in his prime defensively against was Rasheed Wallace. Rasheed was tall, long and lanky and quick. Draymond doesn't have any of those physical tools other than having long arms but Duncan still has the height and great strength to counter in the post.

Duncan also had great strength and great footwork to counter whatever Draymond would try to do. So, I don't see how Draymond would be able to muscle him like he's able to do to other guys. During the '14-'15 season there was a game between the Warriors and Spurs where it was there last meeting of the year. I remember that game because Duncan had a few post up plays where he literally backed down Draymond in the post and moved him all the way underneath the basket with ease for easy buckets.

[TD 21]

They're probably the worst since at least the late 70's.


It was definitely the weakest title out of the 5 titles the Spurs won.

Duncan was still in his prime in '07. I don't know how he would not be effective against the Warriors. Looney and Draymond would be lightweights for Duncan to handle. You of all people should know this after the numbers Duncan put up against Dampier, Diop, Mbenga who are all on the same level as Looney but taller and stronger.

There is an old interview from 8 or 9 years ago where Curry is talking to Simmons and saying Parker is the hardest player in the league for him to match up against. This was Parker at the tail end at his prime. '07 Parker would have scorched him.

The Warriors also are a physical team with Draymond being allowed to play 90's to mid '00s defense. None of the Spurs big 3 would be phased by it like other teams are simply because they all had to play it much more physical era. So that advantage would have been taken away.

Maybe so, but '07 was the big 3 as close to a collective peak as they got. That team was better than at least the '03 team.

Yeah, the whole strong but undersized defender who can get up under and root out type didn't work on Duncan because of his sturdy base. He'd have destroyed Looney and Green, while putting them in foul trouble with no third option to defend him.

Curry would hide on Bowen while Wiggins chased Parker.

[daslicer]

They're probably the worst since at least the late 70's.



Maybe so, but '07 was the big 3 as close to a collective peak as they got. That team was better than at least the '03 team.

Yeah, the whole strong but undersized defender who can get up under and root out type didn't work on Duncan because of his sturdy base. He'd have destroyed Looney and Green, while putting them in foul trouble with no third option to defend him.

Curry would hide on Bowen while Wiggins chased Parker.

Agreed and Klay/Poole would have had their hands full with Manu.

[TD 21]

Agreed and Klay/Poole would have had their hands full with Manu.

Poole would be hid on Bowen/Finley/Barry, while Wiggins/Thompson/Payton II serve as the Ginobili defenders.

[daslicer]

Poole would be hid on Bowen/Finley/Barry, while Wiggins/Thompson/Payton II serve as the Ginobili defenders.

If Wiggins is guarding Manu then who guards Parker?

[TD 21]

If Wiggins is guarding Manu then who guards Parker?

I don't mean simultaneously obviously, I just mean he'd be one of the options.

[ambchang]

Lol Draymond being effective against Duncan. Duncan went up against the Wallace brothers, Garnett, Horry, pedo and held his own.

He went up against one of the best defensive teams ever in the pistons on two bum ankles and came out on top.

People have such crazy recency bias. In 10 years the same people would say they knew a guy in the local Y who can outshoot curry.

[Neo.]

I don't see Duncan struggling against Draymond. The guy that gave Duncan the most problems in his prime defensively against was Rasheed Wallace. Rasheed was tall, long and lanky and quick. Draymond doesn't have any of those physical tools other than having long arms but Duncan still has the height and great strength to counter in the post.

Duncan also had great strength and great footwork to counter whatever Draymond would try to do. So, I don't see how Draymond would be able to muscle him like he's able to do to other guys. During the '14-'15 season there was a game between the Warriors and Spurs where it was there last meeting of the year. I remember that game because Duncan had a few post up plays where he literally backed down Draymond in the post and moved him all the way underneath the basket with ease for easy buckets.[/QUOTE]

no one said he would struggle one on one. but to think draymond cant make him work until help comes seems ridiculous, as does thinking the warriors would just let him go 1-on-1 all game every game with no help

and anyone who watches the warriors knows they hide defensive schemes until the playoffs. every year luka completely dominates draymond in the post with ease during the regular season. suddenly in the playoffs he was seeing looks from them he hadnt seen before to force it out of his hands. had mavs role players been hitting their open 3s the series could have been very different, but either way, they schemed very well to not allow luka to just bully anyone in the post the way he normally does, and even taking away his usual reads, forcing them to adjust their rotations on offense.

[Neo.]

Lol Draymond being effective against Duncan. Duncan went up against the Wallace brothers, Garnett, Horry, pedo and held his own.

He went up against one of the best defensive teams ever in the pistons on two bum ankles and came out on top.

People have such crazy recency bias. In 10 years the same people would say they knew a guy in the local Y who can outshoot curry.

lol inability to read

[daslicer]

Duncan also had great strength and great footwork to counter whatever Draymond would try to do. So, I don't see how Draymond would be able to muscle him like he's able to do to other guys. During the '14-'15 season there was a game between the Warriors and Spurs where it was there last meeting of the year. I remember that game because Duncan had a few post up plays where he literally backed down Draymond in the post and moved him all the way underneath the basket with ease for easy buckets.

no one said he would struggle one on one. but to think draymond cant make him work until help comes seems ridiculous, as does thinking the warriors would just let him go 1-on-1 all game every game with no help

and anyone who watches the warriors knows they hide defensive schemes until the playoffs. every year luka completely dominates draymond in the post with ease during the regular season. suddenly in the playoffs he was seeing looks from them he hadnt seen before to force it out of his hands. had mavs role players been hitting their open 3s the series could have been very different, but either way, they schemed very well to not allow luka to just bully anyone in the post the way he normally does, and even taking away his usual reads, forcing them to adjust their rotations on offense.


Luka is a perimeter player Duncan is a big man. Those are 2 different types of players. Plus, Duncan is physically a lot stronger than Luka and taller. I don't see any scenario where Draymond is going to be able to keep Duncan from going into the post or being able to make him work to get position. On single coverage Duncan is getting whatever he wants against him. If he doubles Duncan is a great passer out of the post and knows how to find the open man or readjust by making a pass and then getting the ball back for positioning which I saw him do a lot throughout his career.

I don't see Duncan struggling with the Warriors double and triple teams. He had series where he averaged around 30 against the Lakers despite facing constant doubles and triples from Horry, Shaq, Kobe. A combination of Looney, Draymond, Wiggins is physically a lot smaller than the Lakers trio he used to have to go up against every time he caught the ball in the post.

The only guy I have seen successfully guard Duncan in his prime and make it hard for him is Rasheed Wallace but like I said earlier Draymond doesn't have any of the physical tools Rasheed had.

You can say I'm biased and I don't respect Draymond but Draymond's biggest advantage in this era is that he's allowed to play 90's- mid '00s defense without the refs calling fouls on him while other guys are not allowed to do the same. This in return throws guys off when they face him in the playoffs because they are not used to having to deal with that type of physicality and the refs not blowing the whistle. Duncan on the other hand dealt with that type of physicality on a nightly basis and knew how to adjust and deal with it. Duncan would have 50 counters on the offensive end for every dirty tactic Draymond would pull.

[ambchang]

lol inability to read

Can’t counter and going to nitpick on three words you mentioned inpage 2 of a 976 post thread again?

[Neo.]

Luka is a perimeter player Duncan is a big man. Those are 2 different types of players. Plus, Duncan is physically a lot stronger than Luka and taller. I don't see any scenario where Draymond is going to be able to keep Duncan from going into the post or being able to make him work to get position. On single coverage Duncan is getting whatever he wants against him. If he doubles Duncan is a great passer out of the post and knows how to find the open man or readjust by making a pass and then getting the ball back for positioning which I saw him do a lot throughout his career.

the point wasnt the size of the player, it was the schemes they do. single coverage, luka literally can do everything you just mentioned duncan would do. but again, its not as simple as a quick pass out and back in. luka a lot of times like to do the exact same thing, but the warriors would consistently take those passes away and force cross court passes to where a re-entry pass was not a possibility. the do an amazing job of wasting an extra 5-8 seconds of their opponents time trying to get a better shot, resulting in more rushed late clock shots, and the offense generally not being able to get in their comfort zone


I don't see Duncan struggling with the Warriors double and triple teams. He had series where he averaged around 30 against the Lakers despite facing constant doubles and triples from Horry, Shaq, Kobe. A combination of Looney, Draymond, Wiggins is physically a lot smaller than the Lakers trio he used to have to go up against every time he caught the ball in the post. not a good comparison, completely differently built teams and styles of defense, not to mention during an era where zone defense was banned. the vast majority of what the warriors do defensively would have been illegal before zone defense was allowed.


The only guy I have seen successfully guard Duncan in his prime and make it hard for him is Rasheed Wallace but like I said earlier Draymond doesn't have any of the physical tools Rasheed had.

not sure how many more times it has to be said, its not a matter of going one-on-one for full possessions


You can say I'm biased and I don't respect Draymond but Draymond's biggest advantage in this era is that he's allowed to play 90's- mid '00s defense without the refs calling fouls on him while other guys are not allowed to do the same. This in return throws guys off when they face him in the playoffs because they are not used to having to deal with that type of physicality and the refs not blowing the whistle. Duncan on the other hand dealt with that type of physicality on a nightly basis and knew how to adjust and deal with it. Duncan would have 50 counters on the offensive end for every dirty tactic Draymond would pull.

i dont think its a matter of bias (except the 50 counters thing, he certainly has plenty, but if he was THAT unstoppable i think the spurs would have actually repeated once or twice). i too think duncan can handle it, but to think the warriors wouldnt be able to make him work, or perhaps throw the spurs offense some curveballs that throws them out of sync would really be selling them short. they were the #1 defense in the NBA all season, and were even more impressive in the playoffs when they were finally at full strength. they deserve more credit and recognition than they are getting.

side note, fwiw I personally think Duncan is a top 5 player of all time, and the only players I would build around before him are mike and bron

[Neo.]

:cry :cry :cryhttps://i.gifer.com/9LBx.gif

[bdictjames]

Spurs would have the discipline to stick with the Warriors. It would be an interesting matchup for sure.

[ambchang]

https://i.gifer.com/9LBx.gif

You think it makes it looks smart but it actually makes you look like a retarded loser. Just trying to be nice and let you know.

[MultiTroll]

not sure how many more times it has to be said, its not a matter of going one-on-one for full possessions
Oh my who will Duncan find to pass it to on that Spurs team?

With that ferocthiathce Warriorthce defensth.

[Neo.]

Oh my who will Duncan find to pass it to on that Spurs team?

With that ferocthiathce Warriorthce defensth.

that warriors defense has now won 4 championships in 6 finals. they must be doing something right.

[Neo.]

You think it makes it looks smart but it actually makes you look like a retarded loser. Just trying to be nice and let you know.

cool story bro

keep obsessing over kobe and crying about drob not getting credit he doesn't deserve :lmao

[LeGiannis]

Wiggins would lock down Manu easily. Manu's throat would be sore by the time Wiggins was done having his way with him.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Wiggins would lock down Manu easily. Manu's throat would be sore by the time Wiggins was done having his way with him.

lol ok

[FrostKing]

Wiggins would lock down Manu easily. Manu's throat would be sore by the time Wiggins was done having his way with him.
As in sliced from his uncut nails? Luka got carved up.

[FrostKing]

Off the top of my head surprised no one mention but recent Raptors?

Whenever one player goes full Alpha and carries - 2011 Dirk

Brings me to 1995 Hakeem

Maybe I'm being too Pro big market. Some of those titles and memories melt into one. Kobe's final title Game 7 win, comeback against depleted Celtics. Arguably worst all over shooting Finals game ever. Comes to mind.

1998 Bulls. "Is Rodman still in Vegas?". Damn those times were fun. Flirting so close with disaster.

[DMC]

Every western team this year was weaker. Every eastern team too it seems.

I think teams that rule the roost for a time can raise the bar themselves, then they get compared to the new level they created. Look at the Bucks. Those dudes were lucky as hell last year. Not lucky in terms of flukey shooting but their path avoided the best players in the league. They had to beat Devin Booker and Chris Paul. That has to be the weakest Finals I ever saw that didn't happen in 2007.

[FrostKing]

https://youtu.be/9taH1AsZzUY

[Dirks_Finale]

Duncan was still in his prime in '07. I don't know how he would not be effective against the Warriors. Looney and Draymond would be lightweights for Duncan to handle. You of all people should know this after the numbers Duncan put up against Dampier, Diop, Mbenga who are all on the same level as Looney but taller and stronger.

Let me rephrase - 2003 Duncan was not 2007 Duncan. 2005 Duncan was not 2007 Duncan.

Still a great player but we are talking the run and gun Warriors and Tim had slowed down some at this point. I could see him in foul trouble in the series and having some trouble keeping up with all the Warriors movement.

[lefty]

Let me rephrase - 2003 Duncan was not 2007 Duncan. 2005 Duncan was not 2007 Duncan.

Still a great player but we are talking the run and gun Warriors and Tim had slowed down some at this point. I could see him in foul trouble in the series and having some trouble keeping up with all the Warriors movement.
Agreed
The game has changed so much since 2007
Heck, even since 2014

[Dirks_Finale]

Agreed
The game has changed so much since 2007
Heck, even since 2014

Yeah didn't run and gun Suns sweep the Spurs just a few yrs after that?

To Tim's credit he employed a nutritionist, trained hard, dropped a few pounds and really rejuvenated himself to hold up in the new era of gazelles.

[lefty]

Yeah didn't run and gun Suns sweep the Spurs just a few yrs after that?

To Tim's credit he employed a nutritionist, trained hard, dropped a few pounds and really rejuvenated himself to hold up in the new era of gazelles.
Yep, Goran Dragic skull fucked us in 2010

[baseline bum]

Spurs would have the discipline to stick with the Warriors. It would be an interesting matchup for sure.

I don't think it would be that interesting a matchup, the 07 Spurs would handle the 22 Warriors pretty easily. Now the 15 Warriors would probably beat the 07 Spurs and the 16-18 Warriors would definitely beat them.

[JamStone]

Last season’s Milwaukee Bucks actually had a pretty weak path to a title. Brooklyn with Harden and Kyrie both hobbled and out during the series. Atlanta fucking Hawks in the ECF. Then facing another first time Finals team who outside of CP3 were all young kids with no playoff experience other than that current post season. Miami in the first round might have been the toughest team they faced, but that Heat team was not right most of that season, and their two best players Butler and Bam were both dealing with physical issues at that point. I know beating Durant at the time felt like taking a big step for Giannis. But in retrospect, what series against what team in their Finals run was really all that impressive? Feels like none of them, and consequently the entire run in total was not very impressive at all.

I’d throw the 2021 Bucks in the bucket of weakest champs of the last whatever 40 or so years.

[JamStone]

I don't think it would be that interesting a matchup, the 07 Spurs would handle the 22 Warriors pretty easily. Now the 15 Warriors would probably beat the 07 Spurs and the 16-18 Warriors would definitely beat them.

I know the last couple pages have had the ongoing debate, but I’m not convinced either way. I don’t think the 2007 Spurs would dominate because I don’t quite know how’d they defend the Warriors small ball line-up. Flipside, I, not convinced the Warriors team defense is nearly as dominant against a balanced team with multiple primary scorers with a traditional make-up.

It’s always a fool’s errand trying to determine all the moving parts of a match-up between two teams from two different eras with such disparate styles of play. Not just those two particular teams, but the style of play overall throughout the league in those two eras. Realize the 2007 Spurs took only 19 three attempts a game. 2022 Warriors not only more than double that, but they make more than twice as the 2007 Spurs. So out the door, on an average night, the 2022 Warriors already have a 21 point advantage from three point distance. Now, can the Spurs bully them enough with Tim down low to counter that? Maybe. But Tim most of his career was never the give me the ball 25 times so I can score 40-50 points. That wasn’t him in 2007 and wasn’t really him ever. Draymond doesn’t necessarily have to stop Tim. Tim can dominate Dramond statistically if the rest of the team defense contain Parker and the corner three point attempts.

I don’t think it’s a gimme either way. Both t ams have to have some major strategizing and gameplanning defensively against the other. I think both teams have an advantage offensively. If the three are falling for the Warriors, it makes less of a difference for the Warriors to have to stop Duncan inside and Tony’s drives. They can exchange twos for threes and the Warriors are in better position to win.

I don’t kno for certain, but I tend to lean towards 2022 Warriors. And style of play plays a big role in that leaning.

[baseline bum]

Last season’s Milwaukee Bucks actually had a pretty weak path to a title. Brooklyn with Harden and Kyrie both hobbled and out during the series. Atlanta fucking Hawks in the ECF. Then facing another first time Finals team who outside of CP3 were all young kids with no playoff experience other than that current post season. Miami in the first round might have been the toughest team they faced, but that Heat team was not right most of that season, and their two best players Butler and Bam were both dealing with physical issues at that point. I know beating Durant at the time felt like taking a big step for Giannis. But in retrospect, what series against what team in their Finals run was really all that impressive? Feels like none of them, and consequently the entire run in total was not very impressive at all.

I’d throw the 2021 Bucks in the bucket of weakest champs of the last whatever 40 or so years.

Last year's Suns were a pretty strong team and won at a 57 win pace, plus Giannis didn't look right in Game 1 of the Finals. Maybe that Bucks team wasn't one of the better title teams but their run was way tougher than Golden State's just from Finals opponent alone.

[baseline bum]

I know the last couple pages have had the ongoing debate, but I’m not convinced either way. I don’t think the 2007 Spurs would dominate because I don’t quite know how’d they defend the Warriors small ball line-up. Flipside, I, not convinced the Warriors team defense is nearly as dominant against a balanced team with multiple primary scorers with a traditional make-up.

It’s always a fool’s errand trying to determine all the moving parts of a match-up between two teams from two different eras with such disparate styles of play. Not just those two particular teams, but the style of play overall throughout the league in those two eras. Realize the 2007 Spurs took only 19 three attempts a game. 2022 Warriors not only more than double that, but they make more than twice as the 2007 Spurs. So out the door, on an average night, the 2022 Warriors already have a 21 point advantage from three point distance. Now, can the Spurs bully them enough with Tim down low to counter that? Maybe. But Tim most of his career was never the give me the ball 25 times so I can score 40-50 points. That wasn’t him in 2007 and wasn’t really him ever. Draymond doesn’t necessarily have to stop Tim. Tim can dominate Dramond statistically if the rest of the team defense contain Parker and the corner three point attempts.

I don’t think it’s a gimme either way. Both t ams have to have some major strategizing and gameplanning defensively against the other. I think both teams have an advantage offensively. If the three are falling for the Warriors, it makes less of a difference for the Warriors to have to stop Duncan inside and Tony’s drives. They can exchange twos for threes and the Warriors are in better position to win.

I don’t kno for certain, but I tend to lean towards 2022 Warriors. And style of play plays a big role in that leaning.

22 Klay Thompson being a shell of his prime self is why I'd easily take the 07 Spurs over the 22 Warriors while I'd take any of the other three Warriors title teams plus the 16 team over the 07 Spurs (and 99/03/05 Spurs also). You could stick Bowen on Curry and at least he's not getting constant wide open looks most likely, so those number of threes are probably coming down a bit. Duncan's prime before he had Parker and Ginobili put around him they ran 4-down constantly for him, but way slower pace around 2001 so yeah he wasn't shooting 25 times a night.

[daslicer]

22 Klay Thompson being a shell of his prime self is why I'd easily take the 07 Spurs over the 22 Warriors while I'd take any of the other three Warriors title teams plus the 16 team over the 07 Spurs (and 99/03/05 Spurs also). You could stick Bowen on Curry and at least he's not getting constant wide open looks most likely, so those number of threes are probably coming down a bit. Duncan's prime before he had Parker and Ginobili put around him they ran 4-down constantly for him, but way slower pace around 2001 so yeah he wasn't shooting 25 times a night.

The Spurs could have done the same tactic the Celtics did defensively with guarding the Warriors accept they would have been more effective. The problem with the Celtics was they couldn't get easy buckets in a close game while the Spurs would be able to by throwing the ball into Duncan in the post.

[daslicer]

Let me rephrase - 2003 Duncan was not 2007 Duncan. 2005 Duncan was not 2007 Duncan.

Still a great player but we are talking the run and gun Warriors and Tim had slowed down some at this point. I could see him in foul trouble in the series and having some trouble keeping up with all the Warriors movement.

'07 Duncan still had the great mobility to keep up with the Warriors. If you were saying '08 Duncan would have not have been fast enough to deal with the Warriors then I would have agreed with you but in '07 Duncan was still very mobile. '08 it was when he had a huge decline.

He also dealt with the Suns in '07 which was the fastest team in the league and was fine. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to keep up with this incarnation of the Warriors.

[Dirks_Finale]

'07 Duncan still had the great mobility to keep up with the Warriors. If you were saying '08 Duncan would have not have been fast enough to deal with the Warriors then I would have agreed with you but in '07 Duncan was still very mobile. '08 it was when he had a huge decline.

He also dealt with the Suns in '07 which was the fastest team in the league and was fine. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to keep up with this incarnation of the Warriors.

There's where we disagree. If you were talking 99-06 Duncan I am with you and pick SA.

And the Warriors actually defend, unlike the Suns.

[Dirks_Finale]

22 Klay Thompson being a shell of his prime self is why I'd easily take the 07 Spurs over the 22 Warriors while I'd take any of the other three Warriors title teams plus the 16 team over the 07 Spurs (and 99/03/05 Spurs also). You could stick Bowen on Curry and at least he's not getting constant wide open looks most likely, so those number of threes are probably coming down a bit. Duncan's prime before he had Parker and Ginobili put around him they ran 4-down constantly for him, but way slower pace around 2001 so yeah he wasn't shooting 25 times a night.

Honestly, Smart is just as good as Bowen defensively, imo, and we see how that turned out. There is just no defense for some of the stuff that Curry does out there. Bowen was used to defending guys like Wally Z or Kobe. Set shooters and slashers.

[baseline bum]

Honestly, Smart is just as good as Bowen defensively, imo, and we see how that turned out. There is just no defense for some of the stuff that Curry does out there. Bowen was used to defending guys like Wally Z or Kobe. Set shooters and slashers.

LOL no, Smart is an idiot

[baseline bum]

There's where we disagree. If you were talking 99-06 Duncan I am with you and pick SA.

And the Warriors actually defend, unlike the Suns.

LOL taking 06 plantar fasciitis Duncan over 07 healthy Duncan

[Dirks_Finale]

LOL taking 06 plantar fasciitis Duncan over 07 healthy Duncan

Looked pretty damn good vs us in 06.

[JamStone]

2015 Finals Klay: 15.8 points, 41% FG, 30% 3P

2022 Finals Klay: 17.0 points, 36% FG, 35% 3P

Klay would most likely not be the reason, or one of the reasons, the 2007 Spurs would handle the 2022 Warriors but lose to the 2015 Warriors.


I still contend style of play and being able to adjust defensively plays a huge role in determining a winner between 2007 Spurs and 2022 Warriors. Hell, the 2015 Warriors on average attempted a dozen fewer three pointers than their 2022 version. The game with three point shooting has evolved even just the last few years after the Warriors got onto the championship scene. It’s a different game. It’s a different way to defend. Conceptually, in the Spurs championship window, Pop always focused on the corner three, actually at both ends. Get open corner looks, defend and stop the opposing team in the corners. Teams shoot the three from everywhere now and from all positions and from 35+ feet out. It’s an absolute different defensive scheme in today’s game. You can’t funnel the ball to the corners, overplay the corner jumper and force baseline drives anymore. Especially with everyone and their mama using the side-step maneuver, overplaying the corner three just means a shot fake gets them a more wide open three once they side step or an equally open three from the elbow with a quick swing pass.

Someone mentioned it earlier, it’s not really about the individual match-ups like Duncan v Draymond or Parker v Steph. It’s more stylistically, how does each “team” defense play and adjust and game plan against offenses they are entirely not used to playing. For me at least, that’s what I focus on in the hypothetical match-up.

[ambchang]

cool story bro

keep obsessing over kobe and crying about drob not getting credit he doesn't deserve :lmao

So now the diversion. I’d have thought you like have had other moves after getting your shit pushed in so many times. But I guess you just like to go back to that retarded loser schtick. I’m sure you are not this embarrassing in real life.

[daslicer]

There's where we disagree. If you were talking 99-06 Duncan I am with you and pick SA.

And the Warriors actually defend, unlike the Suns.

And they wouldn't be able to defend Duncan so I don't know what your point is about that is. Duncan was still very mobile in '07. If you want to disagree that's fine.

[baseline bum]

2015 Finals Klay: 15.8 points, 41% FG, 30% 3P

2022 Finals Klay: 17.0 points, 36% FG, 35% 3P

Klay would most likely not be the reason, or one of the reasons, the 2007 Spurs would handle the 2022 Warriors but lose to the 2015 Warriors.


I still contend style of play and being able to adjust defensively plays a huge role in determining a winner between 2007 Spurs and 2022 Warriors. Hell, the 2015 Warriors on average attempted a dozen fewer three pointers than their 2022 version. The game with three point shooting has evolved even just the last few years after the Warriors got onto the championship scene. It’s a different game. It’s a different way to defend. Conceptually, in the Spurs championship window, Pop always focused on the corner three, actually at both ends. Get open corner looks, defend and stop the opposing team in the corners. Teams shoot the three from everywhere now and from all positions and from 35+ feet out. It’s an absolute different defensive scheme in today’s game. You can’t funnel the ball to the corners, overplay the corner jumper and force baseline drives anymore. Especially with everyone and their mama using the side-step maneuver, overplaying the corner three just means a shot fake gets them a more wide open three once they side step or an equally open three from the elbow with a quick swing pass.

Someone mentioned it earlier, it’s not really about the individual match-ups like Duncan v Draymond or Parker v Steph. It’s more stylistically, how does each “team” defense play and adjust and game plan against offenses they are entirely not used to playing. For me at least, that’s what I focus on in the hypothetical match-up.

2022 Klay teams would leave open, 2015 Klay was the second best shooter in the league and you had to be on him. 2015 Klay was also an elite defender.

[baseline bum]

Looked pretty damn good vs us in 06.

He was a lot better in 07. 06 was the worst year of his career until he started slowing down in 09.

[daslicer]

Honestly, Smart is just as good as Bowen defensively, imo, and we see how that turned out. There is just no defense for some of the stuff that Curry does out there. Bowen was used to defending guys like Wally Z or Kobe. Set shooters and slashers.

Bowen actually had the easiest time guarding scorers who were primarily shooters. I still remember in '08 at old age he had trouble guarding a young CP3 in the playoffs that Pop switched him over to guarding Peja who was lighting up the Spurs in that series. Once that move was made the Spurs ended up winning the series because Bowen locked down Peja. Bowen also had great success at locking down prime Ray Allen in '05.

[daslicer]

He was a lot better in 07. 06 was the worst year of his career until he started slowing down in 09.

Duncan averaged 26-13-4 blocks against the Suns in 'the '07 playoffs. You can't put up those types of numbers against an athletic team without having great mobility.

[Neo.]

Honestly, Smart is just as good as Bowen defensively, imo, and we see how that turned out.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[Neo.]

and tbh if we are comparing the 15 and 22 warriors squads, while klay isnt quite as good as he used to be, hes still really good

but wiggins is clearly a better version of harrison barnes, and poole (while low iq) is a much better overall player than livingston and barbosa were. also steph has improved drastically at handling physical defense and a higher defensive workload. he was pretty trash (by his standards) in the 15 finals for most of the series, save for a few moments here and there. he was pretty far and away the best player in this series, heavily elevating his game in the finals for the first time in his career.

i think both squads are pretty comparable overall. the 15 squad had more depth (they were 10 deep with quality players all of whom played their roles exceptionally well), while the 22 squad has more sheer talent, as well as great experience

[baseline bum]

and tbh if we are comparing the 15 and 22 warriors squads, while klay isnt quite as good as he used to be, hes still really good

but wiggins is clearly a better version of harrison barnes, and poole (while low iq) is a much better overall player than livingston and barbosa were. also steph has improved drastically at handling physical defense and a higher defensive workload. he was pretty trash (by his standards) in the 15 finals for most of the series, save for a few moments here and there. he was pretty far and away the best player in this series, heavily elevating his game in the finals for the first time in his career.

i think both squads are pretty comparable overall. the 15 squad had more depth (they were 10 deep with quality players all of whom played their roles exceptionally well), while the 22 squad has more sheer talent, as well as great experience

IDK, I have a hard time believing a 53 win team is as good as a 67 win title team. Wiggins might be better than Barnes but I'd much rather have Bogut that Loony. And Curry was quite a bit better player in 15 than 22. His PER was 28 in 15 vs 21.4 in 22. FG% 5 points higher, 3PT% 6 points higher. Curry had a much better Finals this time around but overall I'd much rather have 15 Curry.

[Chris Fall]

Lol Steph Curry is not just a scorer who is primarily a shooter.

Curry is the greatest shooter of all time with legitimate range up to 40 feet out who constantly moves off the ball around the halfcourt like Reggie Miller or Ray Allen, getting moving pick after moving pick from Draymond and Looney in an offense completely built around his shooting, and who oh by the way has handles like CP3 with the ability to get to and finish at the rim when you overplay his jumper. Suggesting Steph is a scorer who is primarily a shooter is like suggesting Tim Duncan is a big who primarily shoots midrange jumpers off the glass.

Lmao at referencing Peja as to how Bruce could defend Steph...

[lefty]

Lol Steph Curry is not just a scorer who is primarily a shooter.

Curry is the greatest shooter of all time who constantly moves off the ball around the halfcourt like Reggie Miller or Ray Allen, getting moving pick after moving pick from Draymond and Looney in an offense completely built around his shooting, and who oh by the way has handles like CP3 with the ability to get to and finish at the rim when you overplay his jumper. Suggesting Steph is a scorer who is primarily a shooter is like suggesting Tim Duncan is a big who primarily shoots midrange jumpers off the glass.

Lmao at referencing Peja as to how Bruce could defend Steph...
https://c.tenor.com/Te4htNcAmmQAAAAM/morgan-freeman-pointing.gif

[Dirks_Finale]

Bowen actually had the easiest time guarding scorers who were primarily shooters. I still remember in '08 at old age he had trouble guarding a young CP3 in the playoffs that Pop switched him over to guarding Peja who was lighting up the Spurs in that series. Once that move was made the Spurs ended up winning the series because Bowen locked down Peja. Bowen also had great success at locking down prime Ray Allen in '05.

:lol

Curry is a different kind of animal.

[Dirks_Finale]

Lol @ all the overrating Bowen in this thread.

You'd think he was a 5 time DPOY award winner by reading the comments.

Good defender...but he is not checking Curry with anymore effectiveness than anyone else has.

[Dirks_Finale]

IDK, I have a hard time believing a 53 win team is as good as a 67 win title team. Wiggins might be better than Barnes but I'd much rather have Bogut that Loony. And Curry was quite a bit better player in 15 than 22. His PER was 28 in 15 vs 21.4 in 22. FG% 5 points higher, 3PT% 6 points higher. Curry had a much better Finals this time around but overall I'd much rather have 15 Curry.

Curry played 64 games.
Klay played 32 games.

I'd say the record is misleading as a result of that.

[lefty]

Lol @ all the overrating Bowen in this thread.

You'd think he was a 5 time DPOY award winner by reading the comments.

Good defender...but he is not checking Curry with anymore effectiveness than anyone else has.

[Killakobe81]

Lol Steph Curry is not just a scorer who is primarily a shooter.

Curry is the greatest shooter of all time with legitimate range up to 40 feet out who constantly moves off the ball around the halfcourt like Reggie Miller or Ray Allen, getting moving pick after moving pick from Draymond and Looney in an offense completely built around his shooting, and who oh by the way has handles like CP3 with the ability to get to and finish at the rim when you overplay his jumper. Suggesting Steph is a scorer who is primarily a shooter is like suggesting Tim Duncan is a big who primarily shoots midrange jumpers off the glass.

Lmao at referencing Peja as to how Bruce could defend Steph...

Bowen did a good job vs Nash which is the better analogy but Steph has better range is more aggressive stronger and a better finisher than Nash who was a better natural Point guard. Even doing well vs Nash doesn’t mean he could handle Steph who is quicker
Peja lol
Heck even his solid work on Kobe ain’t same as dealing with Steph

[lefty]

Bowen did a good job vs Nash which is the better analogy but Steph has better range is more aggressive stronger and a better finisher than Nash who was a better natural Point guard. Even doing well vs Nash doesn’t mean he could handle Steph who is quicker

Also, Nash wasn't constantly moving off the ball like Steph

[DAF86]

The weakest, by far, is the Micky Mouse bubble ring the NBA gifted the Lakers because of Kobe's passing. Injuries, refs help and potential rivals getting upest happen every year, but the conditions that made that Lakers ring possible will never repeat again. The one and only true asterik championship.

[baseline bum]

Curry played 64 games.
Klay played 32 games.

I'd say the record is misleading as a result of that.

Curry missing 18 games is big. Klay not so much IMO, he looked pretty average at best this year. We'll see if he can come back to being an elite player again in his second year back.

[Neo.]

IDK, I have a hard time believing a 53 win team is as good as a 67 win title team. Wiggins might be better than Barnes but I'd much rather have Bogut that Loony. And Curry was quite a bit better player in 15 than 22. His PER was 28 in 15 vs 21.4 in 22. FG% 5 points higher, 3PT% 6 points higher. Curry had a much better Finals this time around but overall I'd much rather have 15 Curry.

yes but that was a team that had virtually no injuries. their main 5 guys (steph/klay/dray/barnes/iggy) missed a combined 15 games

the 22 team's 5 main players (steph/klay/dray/wiggins/poole) missed a combined 119 games, while klay didnt really return to form basically until the playoffs started

i think its reasonable to say that the 22 team if fully healthy like the 15 team, would easily win over 60 games

on top of that the 15 team was a bunch of young guys out to prove something, and were playing pedal to the metal all season long. its pretty clear that they now know how to pace themselves much better than before. steph may have had a better season back then, but while hes not as young, hes easily a more complete player now than he was back then. idk if id take one version of him over the other, but the current version is definitely a better playoff basketball player.

[TD 21]

The weakest, by far, is the Micky Mouse bubble ring the NBA gifted the Lakers because of Kobe's passing. Injuries, refs help and potential rivals getting upest happen every year, but the conditions that made that Lakers ring possible will never repeat again. The one and only true asterik championship.

:lmao Thinking the league cared about mythologizing more than money or that circumstances that were equal for all were tainted, but the second best player in the league joining the team that had just broken the singe season wins record wasn't and a top five player intentionally destroying his value culminating in a "trade" that otherwise would have never occurred wasn't.

[daslicer]

:lol

Curry is a different kind of animal.

It's convenient how you ignored the part I mentioned Ray Allen only to highlight Peja.

[daslicer]

Lol @ all the overrating Bowen in this thread.

You'd think he was a 5 time DPOY award winner by reading the comments.

Good defender...but he is not checking Curry with anymore effectiveness than anyone else has.

No one is saying Bowen would shut down Curry but would he able to slow him down I definitely believe he would. The Spurs also wouldn't have to target Curry because they would be able to shut down everybody else on the Warriors much like the Celtics were doing up until game 5 when they changed their strategy.

[daslicer]

Lol Steph Curry is not just a scorer who is primarily a shooter.

Curry is the greatest shooter of all time with legitimate range up to 40 feet out who constantly moves off the ball around the halfcourt like Reggie Miller or Ray Allen, getting moving pick after moving pick from Draymond and Looney in an offense completely built around his shooting, and who oh by the way has handles like CP3 with the ability to get to and finish at the rim when you overplay his jumper. Suggesting Steph is a scorer who is primarily a shooter is like suggesting Tim Duncan is a big who primarily shoots midrange jumpers off the glass.

Lmao at referencing Peja as to how Bruce could defend Steph...

Lmao at bad reading comprehension skills at ignoring the part where I also mentioned Ray Allen. Ray Allen was very similar to Steph in how he played and Bruce was able to lock him down. The big difference between Steph and Ray is that Steph has superior ball handling skills compared to Ray which allows him to create shots off the dribble.

[Chris Fall]

Lmao making any Peja reference at all as to how Bruce would defend Steph Curry. Also mentioning Ray Allen does not negate or offset the terrible Peja reference.

[daslicer]

Lmao making any Peja reference at all as to how Bruce would defend Steph Curry. Also mentioning Ray Allen does not negate or offset the terrible Peja reference.

You are deflecting big time by ignoring the Ray Allen part I mentioned because you know it doesn't fit your narrative. You are just a troll looking desperately for trolling material.

[Chris Fall]

Not a troll. Not trolling.

I am not ignoring your mention of Ray Allen. I have no serious issue you referencing Ray Allen. I have a huge issue with you referencing Peja. It's a terrible reference. Nothing about you mentioning Ray Allen redeems your horrible reference of Peja in a post about how Bruce Bowen could defend Steph Curry well.

Talk about deflection.

[Dirks_Finale]

It's convenient how you ignored the part I mentioned Ray Allen only to highlight Peja.

Why stop at Peja? You could have also told us how he gave Wally Z fits :lol

[Robz4000]

22 Klay Thompson being a shell of his prime self is why I'd easily take the 07 Spurs over the 22 Warriors while I'd take any of the other three Warriors title teams plus the 16 team over the 07 Spurs (and 99/03/05 Spurs also). You could stick Bowen on Curry and at least he's not getting constant wide open looks most likely, so those number of threes are probably coming down a bit. Duncan's prime before he had Parker and Ginobili put around him they ran 4-down constantly for him, but way slower pace around 2001 so yeah he wasn't shooting 25 times a night.

05 and 14 Spurs smoke any non-Dominos Dubs team imo.

[baseline bum]

Why stop at Peja? You could have also told us how he gave Wally Z fits :lol

One of my favorite moments in NBA history

https://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1012201/bruce_bowen_kicks_wally_szczerbiak_in_the_face-584-1.gif

[DAF86]

:lmao Thinking the league cared about mythologizing more than money

Where in the fuck did I say or imply that? How can you get that from what I wrote? :lol


or that circumstances that were equal for all were tainted,

Sure, they were equal for all, but that doesn't mean that certain teams and individuals don't get more benefit from those equal but unusual circumstances.

If a high endurance runner registers himself for a marathon but suddenly that marathon becomes a 100m dash race, he will be in disadvatange and a speedster with less stamina would see himself benefited and win a race he wouldn't have won otherwise.

If the metaphor isn't clear. If a team has, let's say, a superstar bigmen that is known for being injury prone, that team will be benefited if a season suddenly gets shortened and with less miles traveled during the season and specially the playoffs, and win a championship that, most probably, wouldn't have won under normal conditions.


but the second best player in the league joining the team that had just broken the singe season wins record wasn't and a top five player intentionally destroying his value culminating in a "trade" that otherwise would have never occurred wasn't.

Free agent signings and trades are part of the norm of an NBA season.

[Neo.]

Where in the fuck did I say or imply that? How can you get that from what I wrote? :lol



Sure, they were equal for all, but that doesn't mean that certain teams and individuals don't get more benefit from those equal but unusual circumstances.

If a high endurance runner registers himself for a marathon but suddenly that marathon becomes a 100m dash race, he will be in disadvatange and a speedster with less stamina would see himself benefited and win a race he wouldn't have won otherwise.

If the metaphor isn't clear. If a team has, let's say, a superstar bigmen that is known for being injury prone, that team will be benefited if a season suddenly gets shortened and with less miles traveled during the season and specially the playoffs, and win a championship that, most probably, wouldn't have won under normal conditions.



Free agent signings and trades are part of the norm of an NBA season.

ok this is such a stupid take

yes some players are injury prone but fact is they are unpredictable and there is no promise or guarantee that an injury prone player will get hurt, nor is it a guarantee that a player with absolutely no injury history for years will make it through a given season without getting hurt

if your basis for the bubble title being tainted is seriously "AD is injury prone but didn't get hurt, so their title was unfair :madrun", you might have just given a worse take than manu > dirk, and you probably should just consider the viability of suicide at this point

[DAF86]

ok this is such a stupid take

yes some players are injury prone but fact is they are unpredictable and there is no promise or guarantee that an injury prone player will get hurt, nor is it a guarantee that a player with absolutely no injury history for years will make it through a given season without getting hurt

if your basis for the bubble title being tainted is seriously "AD is injury prone but didn't get hurt, so their title was unfair :madrun", you might have just given a worse take than manu > dirk, and you probably should just consider the viability of suicide at this point

No, Davis' injury history is just an example of all the things that could have been different had that NBA season been played under normal circumstances. My basis for the bubble title being tainted is that it was a season played in complete different circumstances than normal NBA seasons. And a lot of things would have most likely been different had the season been played normaly, including the champion.

[Neo.]

No, Davis' injury history is just an example of all the things that could have been different had that NBA season been played under normal circumstances. My basis for the bubble title being tainted is that it was a season played in complete different circumstances than normal NBA seasons. And a lot of things would have most likely been different had the season been played normaly, including the champion.

"could have" :lol

[DAF86]

"could have" :lol

Yeah, the entire premise of asterik or weak championships, which is what we are arguing here. :lol

[Neo.]

Yeah, the entire premise of asterik or weak championships, which is what we are arguing here. :lol

sorry but i dont see how the argument "but they had a player who could have gotten injured, and if he had gotten injured, they wouldn't have won the championship, therefore that makes them a weak champion" holds any weight, since you could say that about every single team ever :lmao

the majority of whats been talked about here has been the quality of players and team, not stupid "what if" cards in regards to injuries that didnt even happen, as opposed to something like the 15 finals where one may wonder what the series would have been like had kyrie and love not been hurt, or if the nets had been healthy last year against the bucks

[baseline bum]

No, Davis' injury history is just an example of all the things that could have been different had that NBA season been played under normal circumstances. My basis for the bubble title being tainted is that it was a season played in complete different circumstances than normal NBA seasons. And a lot of things would have most likely been different had the season been played normaly, including the champion.

LOL you're basically making the 99* argument.

[TD 21]

Where in the fuck did I say or imply that? How can you get that from what I wrote? :lol



Sure, they were equal for all, but that doesn't mean that certain teams and individuals don't get more benefit from those equal but unusual circumstances.

If a high endurance runner registers himself for a marathon but suddenly that marathon becomes a 100m dash race, he will be in disadvatange and a speedster with less stamina would see himself benefited and win a race he wouldn't have won otherwise.

If the metaphor isn't clear. If a team has, let's say, a superstar bigmen that is known for being injury prone, that team will be benefited if a season suddenly gets shortened and with less miles traveled during the season and specially the playoffs, and win a championship that, most probably, wouldn't have won under normal conditions.



Free agent signings and trades are part of the norm of an NBA season.

When you inferred the league's primary concern was "gifting" the Lakers a championship by finishing the '20 season in unusual circumstances.

Eh, an undertalented (for a contender) team that had lightning in a bottle is a poor example of that.

Sounds like you just have an obsession with and refusal to give the Lakers credit.

:lmao Even if you want to play that game and absolve the Warriors core 4/Durant for the gutless move made feasible by the unprecedented cap spike, again Scumbag was only traded for that paltry package because of what he intentionally did to his value, which destroyed all credibility.

[DMC]

Honestly, Smart is just as good as Bowen defensively, imo, and we see how that turned out. There is just no defense for some of the stuff that Curry does out there. Bowen was used to defending guys like Wally Z or Kobe. Set shooters and slashers.

Come on. Smart can't carry Bowen's jock on Bowen's worst defensive outing.

[DMC]

No, Davis' injury history is just an example of all the things that could have been different had that NBA season been played under normal circumstances. My basis for the bubble title being tainted is that it was a season played in complete different circumstances than normal NBA seasons. And a lot of things would have most likely been different had the season been played normaly, including the champion.

All teams dealt with the same circumstances. One team came out on top. You could use the same argument for the AC failure in 2014, but again both teams dealt with it, as was stated by the coaches and players and subsequently dismissed as a scapegoat.

[lefty]

No, Davis' injury history is just an example of all the things that could have been different had that NBA season been played under normal circumstances. My basis for the bubble title being tainted is that it was a season played in complete different circumstances than normal NBA seasons. And a lot of things would have most likely been different had the season been played normaly, including the champion.

Same conditions for every team

[DAF86]

When you inferred the league's primary concern was "gifting" the Lakers a championship by finishing the '20 season in unusual circumstances.

Eh, an undertalented (for a contender) team that had lightning in a bottle is a poor example of that.

Sounds like you just have an obsession with and refusal to give the Lakers credit.

:lmao Even if you want to play that game and absolve the Warriors core 4/Durant for the gutless move made feasible by the unprecedented cap spike, again Scumbag was only traded for that paltry package because of what he intentionally did to his value, which destroyed all credibility.

Never did that, tbh. Just mentioned the unusual circumstances, and added a tongue in cheek comment about the league wanting the Lakers to win the ship because of Kobe's death. Never talked about any "primary concern" nor did I say the reason the season was completed was to gift the Lakers the trophy.

[DAF86]

All teams dealt with the same circumstances. One team came out on top. You could use the same argument for the AC failure in 2014, but again both teams dealt with it, as was stated by the coaches and players and subsequently dismissed as a scapegoat.

You can't compare one game without AC to an entire season being shutdown and finishing the playoffs without travels or home court advantage.

[DAF86]

sorry but i dont see how the argument "but they had a player who could have gotten injured, and if he had gotten injured, they wouldn't have won the championship, therefore that makes them a weak champion" holds any weight, since you could say that about every single team ever :lmao

the majority of whats been talked about here has been the quality of players and team, not stupid "what if" cards in regards to injuries that didnt even happen, as opposed to something like the 15 finals where one may wonder what the series would have been like had kyrie and love not been hurt, or if the nets had been healthy last year against the bucks

Those Lakers missed the playoffs the year before, won on the most unusual of circumstances, and went back to being utter shit the following seasons. I think it's safe to say they are the weakest champions ever.

[DAF86]

LOL you're basically making the 99* argument.

Yeah, well, that was kind of the point, before TD21 misinterpreted the whole thing and sent the conversation in a whole different path.

Laker fans on this board always brought up *99, but lockdown seasons have happened before and will happen again, that bubble ring will forever be the true asterik untill the end of times.

[JamStone]

Laker fans on this board always brought up *99, but lockdown seasons have happened before and will happen again, that bubble ring will forever be the true asterik untill the end of times.

The 1998-99 lockout was different than the ones prior to that. 6 month lockout which resulted in a three month plus delay to the start of the season with a February start, forcing not only a shortened season but a compacted one. The previous lockouts still resulted in those seasons beginning at the start of November. 1999 was different. Players were out of shape. Shooting suffered. Pace of the game was bad. Ratings went down the toilet. Overall league FG% was the worst since the 1960s when those notorious plumbers and electricians littered the league. Offensive Rating was the worst since 1970s and hasn’t been as bad since. Overall pace of play in the league was the slowest in league history since they started to chart pace. The worst in some 50 some seasons of pace being a statistically charted measure.

If you want to asterisk the Lakers bubble ring, which is perfectly fine by me, the 1999 Spurs lockout ring shares the same fate imo. 1999 and 2020 are way more similar than 1999 and the other lockout seasons.

[lefty]

A longer season would have actually benefited the Spurs

They had a very slow start that season and started rolling late

[Neo.]

Those Lakers missed the playoffs the year before, won on the most unusual of circumstances, and went back to being utter shit the following seasons. I think it's safe to say they are the weakest champions ever.

completely different roster + lebron suffered major injury the year before

the following seasons there were multiple major injuries as well as major roster changes

has nothing to do with the team that won it all. it would be one thing if the health level was generally similar and roster was similar. but neither was the case. more awful reasoning. try focusing on the championship team itself, not other teams.

[Dirks_Finale]

Come on. Smart can't carry Bowen's jock on Bowen's worst defensive outing.


Why is that, because Smart doesn't place his foot under superstar's feet when they rise for a jump shot?

[ambchang]

Same conditions for every team

Nah. No other team can get farm teams like the lakers. Different conditions.

[lefty]

Why is that, because Smart doesn't place his foot under superstar's feet when they rise for a jump shot?
Smart is a better defender than Bowen, but my fellow Spurs fans refuse to remove their silver & black tinted glasses tbh

[Neo.]

Smart is a better defender than Bowen, but my fellow Spurs fans refuse to remove their silver & black tinted glasses tbh

defending straight up man to man, id say bowen is easily better than smart, partly because of his size, but mainly because of his discipline

but smart is better at help and team defense

if we are talking about defending a guy like steph straight up, i think id rather take my chances with bowen, smart tends to gamble way too much

[lefty]

defending straight up man to man, id say bowen is easily better than smart, partly because of his size, but mainly because of his discipline

but smart is better at help and team defense

if we are talking about defending a guy like steph straight up, i think id rather take my chances with bowen, smart tends to gamble way too much
I don't think Bruce would keep with Curry tbh

Kawhi can D up Curry though

Also, Delladevodedellova did it a for a couple of games :lol

[Chris Fall]

Smart plays like he believes he's the pun intended smartest guy in the room which leads to him making common sense mistakes. Like he knows the screen is coming so he'll position himself to be able to get around the screen quickly but then give the guy he's defending a free lane to the basket. He's a really good defender if he's not ask to over analyze situations. Because he tends to overthink and make bonehead decisions.

As far as effort, I think Marcus Smart plays as hard as anyone in the league defensively. His effort level is world class.

[Neo.]

I don't think Bruce would keep with Curry tbh

pretty much no one can honestly, but at least hes not going to do a bunch of dumb stuff like smart. you can rely that on every possession bowen is going to stick him like glue, get physical and make him work hard for anything he gets, which is the best way to defend steph, since hes too good to be locked up

[lefty]

pretty much no one can honestly, but at least hes not going to do a bunch of dumb stuff like smart. you can rely that on every possession bowen is going to stick him like glue, get physical and make him work hard for anything he gets, which is the best way to defend steph, since hes too good to be locked up

It used to be the way but Steph has gotten stronger the last few years and his handles are even tighter and better than they used to be last year.
The only way to stop him now is Inchallah and hope he misses

[Neo.]

It used to be the way but Steph has gotten stronger the last few years and his handles are even tighter and better than they used to be last year.
The only way to stop him now is Inchallah and hope he misses
i agree hes improved in how he handles it, but its still the best way to defend him if you choose to leave him 1-on-1 and not trap

[FrostKing]

Celtics didn't rebound well enough. Curry isn't shooting over 50%. You need to limit 2nd chance points and Boston screwed it all up with the turnovers. Series still went 6 albeit the final game wasn't close.

[Dirks_Finale]

I don't think Bruce would keep with Curry tbh

Kawhi can D up Curry though

Also, Delladevodedellova did it a for a couple of games :lol

It would be interesting to see them in a series next year, tbh.

[lefty]

It would be interesting to see them in a series next year, tbh.
Well if somebody can find where Kawhi's corpse is buried, maybe we'll get to see that matchup again