Why the Spurs probably shouldn't draft a center in the lottery

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-draft-center-jalen-duren-mark-williams/

I understand the draw to Jalen Duren and Mark Williams but it's difficult to get on board.

[BatManu20]

Really don’t think they will. They take BPA at 9 which will be a Guard or wing and then package 20 + 25 to try and move up and grab Williams or Eason or whoever their guy is if he’s still available.

[slick'81]

Unless poodle is moved then no need to worry

[DrSteffo]

I miss the good old days :(

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, it only really makes sense if they see Poeltl as expendable, but he's improved greatly and is turning into a nice hub for the offense. He's flawed enough that replacing him isn't out of the question -- he's owed more money, is getting older. I also see how the team might want to have C/PF pairings, since there doesn't seem to be many great PF solutions. Poeltl/[Williams/Duren] paired with Collins/Landale in some sets. Despite what some say, Collins will likely be seeing time as a PF. I also doubt his strength against top bigs.

It's interesting how the draft mock world is going heavy on the Spurs taking Duren there, though.

[Robz4000]

Didn't realize Poeltl was unrestricted next summer. If they can't get an extension worked out by September I'd prolly trade him.

[rankingtear]

Game has changed drastically. If poeltl has better switch ability than these two then why bother.

[Uriel]

I agree that the center position is already well-filled and that it wouldn’t make sense to draft one barring a Poeltl trade. If the front office can find a trade on draft night for Poeltl that makes sense (or if they’re confident they can find one at the deadline), then drafting Duren at #9 makes sense. Otherwise, they should draft a power forward.

[duncan2150]

Nice read thanks !

I agree on a lof of things. Spurs needs a quality defensive big badly but spending a lottery pick in that way may not be the best to do.

Still i think that Poetl contract makes this weird because if Poetl is a lock for 2-3 years they could use the pick on a back up and then move on Poetl after one or two years ala Okongwu in Atlanta. I think the later was gaining playing time during the year and that makes Capela expendable.

If your rookie is going to play 20-25 minutes per game then it's ok to take Duren or Williams behind Poetl.

[heyheymymy]

Great write up OP

There's a scenario where Spurs still have Poeltl but draft the new C anyway and then wait till closer to the deadline to dump off Poeltl and start bring up the new guy in behind Zollins/Lansdale.

[objective]

I understand why they probably won't, but I still will have Duren on my hope-for list behind Mathurin and possibly one or two more.

I just think he would be entertaining to watch playing 15 minutes a game behind Poeltl. Don't much care for Collins at present.

Most of the other guys rumored there probably would play even less. Daniels is a wing who can't shoot. Davis is a smaller wing who can't shoot. Christie looks like another wing who in college could not hit threes. Sochan should have more of an avenue to minutes but also can't shoot.

The response to all that will be something like, "Wait until they develop! Wait until Chip! Until Pop!"

But no one ever gives Duren the same consideration. With Primo, it was non-stop "born in December!!!". But Duren with a November birthday gets treated like a bum.

I know he won't be the pick, but I'll always wonder what kind of improvements Duren could have made in San Antonio.

[Dejounte]

Poeltl is already a good center (not great or elite, before any idiot thinks I’m saying otherwise) and is known as such. Any player brought in, especially a rook, would possibly bring only a marginal improvement to the team as a whole. It’s what I’ve said all season long. The Spurs have bigger fish to fry elsewhere.

[RC_Drunkford]

I disagree here. The Spurs obviously need a PF with a high skillset meanig 3-Point shooting, weakside shotblocking, rebounding and a good transition game. That type of player is not in our draft range. Poeltl while being an elite rim protector and screen setter has no postgame, is foul prone defending post up bigs and cant shoot nor make free throws at a respectable rate. His type of skillset is the easiest to replace by drafting a big. Besides that he has high value on the trade market.

To me it makes the most sense to draft a big and trade Poeltl and fillers for a PF like OG Anounoby or John Collins. That way the Spurs get a strong starting PF and they can then throw the rookie into the rotation. They would have the center spot locked for about 4.5 million giving them some more cap flexibility than when they would extend Poeltl. They could start Zach Collins at the 5 and give the rookie C minutes off the bench. This to me seems to be the best way to improve the team right now

[Dejounte]

Beyond that, building around a center just isn’t ideal anymore in today’s age. When all your resources are put into your all star Center, everything else falls apart. Centers have more utility and responsibility to defend, so they are more likely to foul out. Opposing teams feast whenever your center goes to the bench. Teams with these star level centers are exploited easier, and we’ve seen it over and over. That’s why the hill is tougher to climb for teams like Denver and Philadelphia whereas teams with tier 2 wing or guard depth excel because they can substitute the production much easier. Think about it. When Tatum or Curry goes out, you have another guy to spell him on the court AND on the bench. But if Jokic is out, you can only sub him with ONE much lesser center. So this is my argument against the whole “there’s been MVP finalists at the C position year after year”.

[Dejounte]

^and this applies to only scenarios where either Duren or M Will pan out. Chances are against them that they even will reach that level. Putting all your eggs into a basket like that is simply not smart.

[objective]

Beyond that, building around a center just isn’t ideal anymore in today’s age. When all your resources are put into your all star Center, everything else falls apart. Centers have more utility and responsibility to defend, so they are more likely to foul out. Opposing teams feast whenever your center goes to the bench. Teams with these star level centers are exploited easier, and we’ve seen it over and over. That’s why the hill is tougher to climb for teams like Denver and Philadelphia whereas teams with tier 2 wing or guard depth excel because they can substitute the production much easier. Think about it. When Tatum or Curry goes out, you have another guy to spell him on the court AND on the bench. But if Jokic is out, you can only sub him with ONE much lesser center. So this is my argument against the whole “there’s been MVP finalists at the C position year after year”.

I might be misunderstanding things. I guess I don't see how drafting a center at #9 would mean the Spurs were 'building around a center". It would just be the number 9 pick in a weak draft. I wouldn't think they were building around wings who can't shoot it they picked Davis or Dieng or Christie etc.

They still wouldn't have anyone to really build around as a #1 star. That element would just be a can kicked down the road for a future draft or trade or free agency. So maybe they'd have a a Robert Williams, but they'd still be looking for a Tatum and Brown to build around.

[Dejounte]

I might be misunderstanding things. I guess I don't see how drafting a center at #9 would mean the Spurs were 'building around a center". It would just be the number 9 pick in a weak draft. I wouldn't think they were building around wings who can't shoot it they picked Davis or Dieng or Christie etc.

They still wouldn't have anyone to really build around as a #1 star. That element would just be a can kicked down the road for a future draft or trade or free agency. So maybe they'd have a a Robert Williams, but they'd still be looking for a Tatum and Brown to build around.

Despite your opinion that this is a weak draft, I highly doubt the Spurs organization share the same feelings. They’ve made diamonds out of prospects majority felt were weak before and I’m confident they put that into consideration with their selections.

[objective]

Despite your opinion that this is a weak draft, I highly doubt the Spurs organization share the same feelings. They’ve made diamonds out of prospects majority felt were weak before and I’m confident they put that into consideration with their selections.

They might feel it's the greatest draft of all time. Maybe it is.

Doesn't mean that they're 100% set on building around Max Christie or AJ Griffin if they choose him at 9 or that they expect him to be their franchise player.

[Dejounte]

They might feel it's the greatest draft of all time. Maybe it is.

Doesn't mean that they're 100% set on building around Max Christie or AJ Griffin if they choose him at 9 or that they expect him to be their franchise player.

That’s something entirely different than what I said, but ok.

Bottom-line: The Spurs likely go into any draft selecting a player that gives the best hope they can develop them into a cornerstone. The outcome doesn’t always meet the hope but that doesn’t mean the hope wasn’t there.

No, the Spurs never put their eggs into one basket and build around a #9 pick. That’s never been the Spurs, as evidenced by their decisions to always put their rookies into the gleague developmental program. Doesn’t make sense to go make hyperbolic statements like this.

[JPB]

Stiil have Duren at my pick tbh. I like the guy attitude. I think he's is gonna have an immediate impact on any team he'll play and I can see him developing into a nice force in this league. Not superstar but the kind of very solid, reliable player you want in your team. Don't see any other BPA at 9 anyway and guard/wing worth passing on him or on any PF/C still available at 9 (Sochan, Mathurin).

Unless you're in tank mode, what's point or getting another 2/3 to develop? Not like this draft was a great one.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

The draft next season will also have some pretty interesting big guys. Like Victor Wembanyama, Dereck Livey, K’lal Ware, to name a few.

unless the front office feels one of the big guys who are gonna be available in this draft is the best player available with the 9th pick I would think (and hope) they will go for a play maker or a player who actually has good BBIQ that could help the team

[CGD]

Didn't realize Poeltl was unrestricted next summer. If they can't get an extension worked out by September I'd prolly trade him.

Yeah, which undercuts his value. If I were another team I’d be wary of giving up too much for Jak without assurances.

I’m starting to favor the idea of an extend now (up to $60M/4y), and trade at the deadline scenario.

[mo7888]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-draft-center-jalen-duren-mark-williams/

I understand the draw to Jalen Duren and Mark Williams but it's difficult to get on board.

Perfectly executed..

[mo7888]

Yeah, which undercuts his value. If I were another team I’d be wary of giving up too much for Jak without assurances.

I’m starting to favor the idea of an extend now (up to $60M/4y), and trade at the deadline scenario.

I've been a proponent of going the extend and trade route myself...I do think though that if they trade him now that the team acquiring him can get assurances from his agent on resigning next summer..

[rjv]

with the 9th pick as it stands, i think the spurs have better options than to go with a center as well. as for jakob, if the spurs feel that they can retain him for good value, they should do it.

[pad300]

You're undercutting your own argument TiMVP. Consider the heading "The Spurs Shouldn’t Worry About Fit"... I suspect that just about all of us agree that the Spurs should be picking BPA. The question is who is that? It's pretty much a matter of assessing how much of their potential each young player is going to achieve. If they think Duren or Williams will achieve close to their peak potential ( I see that at some sort of Dwight/Bam hybrid and Gorbert + some offense, respectively), then that's pretty much certain that either Duren or Williams should be the pick at 9. If they think Dieng will be the guy to achieve his peak potential, then Dieng should be the pick...

[DPG21920]

You're undercutting your own argument TiMVP. Consider the heading "The Spurs Shouldn’t Worry About Fit"... I suspect that just about all of us agree that the Spurs should be picking BPA. The question is who is that? It's pretty much a matter of assessing how much of their potential each young player is going to achieve. If they think Duren or Williams will achieve close to their peak potential ( I see that at some sort of Dwight/Bam hybrid and Gorbert + some offense, respectively), then that's pretty much certain that either Duren or Williams should be the pick at 9. If they think Dieng will be the guy to achieve his peak potential, then Dieng should be the pick...

The argument is that it’s highly unlikely that a Center is the BPA at 9

[KobesAchilles]

We have a top 10 center in the league and besides Jokic there isn’t a better center in the whole western conference than Poeltl

[tim_duncan_fan]

I don't want yet another middling guard.

Sure, if there is a guard there with all-star potential at 9, sure. But no more 6'5 likely career role players.

[SAGirl]

Beyond that, building around a center just isn’t ideal anymore in today’s age. When all your resources are put into your all star Center, everything else falls apart. Centers have more utility and responsibility to defend, so they are more likely to foul out. Opposing teams feast whenever your center goes to the bench. Teams with these star level centers are exploited easier, and we’ve seen it over and over. That’s why the hill is tougher to climb for teams like Denver and Philadelphia whereas teams with tier 2 wing or guard depth excel because they can substitute the production much easier. Think about it. When Tatum or Curry goes out, you have another guy to spell him on the court AND on the bench. But if Jokic is out, you can only sub him with ONE much lesser center. So this is my argument against the whole “there’s been MVP finalists at the C position year after year”.
Denver had their 2nd and 3rd best players injured. We can't judge them fairly and say they were not all they should be bc their best player is Jokic. Philly had injuries in the middle of the playoffs and Embiid was out for several games, and then when he returned, he played with serious injuries. Of course they had no chance without him, but it's the same situation for any other team in the playoffs without their best player, or even their second best player. Maybe you can survive a game or two that way, but no way you win an entire series or win it all without all your horses. It happened to the Grizzlies as well, who couldn't reach their best possible outcome once Ja got injured either. Mavs without Doncic, or even their second best player also don't go far. Yea, you can survive a couple of games if you need to, but not a series, and certainly can't win it all that way. So I think Denver and Philadelphia were affected by injuries just as much as Milwaukee without Middleton was, etc.

[itzsoweezee]

Just draft the best talent. Picking a center over any other lottery-worthy position is not drafting the best talent in the 2022 version of the nba.

[SAGirl]

We have a top 10 center in the league and besides Jokic there isn’t a better center in the whole western conference than Poeltl
KAT (even though I am not a fan) eats Jakob cookies for breakfast, Jaren Jackson who swings between PF and C also eats Jakob for breakfast, Pelicans Valanciunas hangs 20/10 getting out of bed on Jakob, etc.

He's not this guy that people expect two firsts for. He's not getting a package similar to White, specially because he's on the last year of his deal, and there are other centers available, whether in the draft, through trades, or even a few FA.

He's a good player, don't get me wrong, but it's dishonest to say that centers are not valued that highly in today's NBA and then expect a haul for Jakob. For this reason it's most likely the Spurs keep him.

Also, if someone has a treasure chest of trade assets, are they going to spend that on Jakob? Think about it.

[DPG21920]

If SA can truly move Jakob to someone like CHA for 13 and/or 15 they should do it. They need to keep moving the team forward from a max value perspective. If you arent going to make trades/land FA to move the team closer to PO and you dont see yourself wanting to pay someone their value due to where team is at, move them before value plummets due to forced hand.

[Degoat]

Another thing to keep in mind, spurs always do well evaluating late round guys. If they think a guy like Max Christie or Marjon Beauchamp could be better than those guards going around 9, why not invest is another position of need? Be Real Jonas Valanicunas made Jakob his bitch in that play in game we need an upgrade there lol

[Mark in Austin]

I'm looking at the Duren highlights and he reminds me a lot of Stromile Swift.

[JPB]

KAT (even though I am not a fan) eats Jakob cookies for breakfast, Jaren Jackson who swings between PF and C also eats Jakob for breakfast, Pelicans Valanciunas hangs 20/10 getting out of bed on Jakob, etc.

He's not this guy that people expect two firsts for. He's not getting a package similar to White, specially because he's on the last year of his deal, and there are other centers available, whether in the draft, through trades, or even a few FA.

He's a good player, don't get me wrong, but it's dishonest to say that centers are not valued that highly in today's NBA and then expect a haul for Jakob. For this reason it's most likely the Spurs keep him.

Also, if someone has a treasure chest of trade assets, are they going to spend that on Jakob? Think about it.

Are you saying you're not into the "13 and 15 for Jak" cult?

Some people want to dump Jak then expect the moon in return. Why trading Jak if he's that worthy then? Because of his contract? Well it would be the same for any other team.

[DPG21920]

Are you saying you're not into the "13 and 15 for Jak" cult?

Some people want to dump Jak then expect the moon in return. Why trading Jak if he's that worthy then? Because of his contract? Well it would be the same for any other team.

You realize how flawed this logic is, right ? There are tons of trades all the time - teams obviously don’t value guys exactly the same. Team needs and situations differ and thus their willingness to pay or value a player.

If everyone valued things the “same for any other team” there would never be trades and especially not lopsided trades.

[JPB]

I'm looking at the Duren highlights and he reminds me a lot of Stromile Swift.

just watched some too and he's def my guy. Love his atlheticism, energy and fire. Dude is an alley-oop machine, Murray would love him. He'll quickly give you 10 & 10 plus a couple blocks a game. Totally different player than Jak. he's stil a bit raw but only 18 and Im' sure he could develop some post up game, shoot mechanics are OK. Spurs need that contagious energy, you know guys who dunk like they wanted to hurt you.

[John B]

I wouldn’t be frustrated if they picked Duren. It’s always fun to see our athletic big dunking, instead of being dunked on. AND specially because Coach Larry Brown was high on Duren. He must know something.

On the other hand, there’s Myles Turner who could be available. Ideally you trade Poeltl with either 20/25 and fillers to get him, and then use the 9 for the BPA instead, preferably Davis or Sochan. I rather do that scenario better.

[Degoat]

One thing I do wonder…. It’s not in the Spurs DNA but do they maybe eventually draft certain guys to Appease Dejounte? Last year he posted that infamous pic that reacted to the spurs drafting Primo.

[Degoat]

I wouldn’t be frustrated if they picked Duren. That’s always fun to see a athletic big dunking, instead of being dunked on. AND specially because Coach Larry Brown was high on Duren. He must know something.

On the other hand, there’s Myles Turner who could be available. Ideally you trade Poeltl with either 20/25 and fillers, and use the 9 for the BPA instead, preferably Davis or Sochan. I rather like that scenario better.


Man if the spurs could come away from the draft with Myles Turner, Johnny Davis, and like Max Christie I’d be over the fcking moon

[pad300]

The argument is that it’s highly unlikely that a Center is the BPA at 9

The problem with that is that in this draft, after about the first 3 positions, just about everyone in the draft has either a) significant flaws in their game, b) is unlikely to reach their potential or c) is considered to have a low ceiling... If they think either of Duren or Williams has a significant chance of achieving their ceiling, then it's actually pretty like that they are the BPA. Tallest guy in a land of midgets isn't all that high of bar to clear.

[JPB]

You realize how flawed this logic is, right ? There are tons of trades all the time - teams obviously don’t value guys exactly the same. Team needs and situations differ and thus their willingness to pay or value a player.

If everyone valued things the “same for any other team” there would never be trades and especially not lopsided trades.

No shit? Thanks for the update about how trades are working..

The point is precisely that spurs do need to put a center on the floor every night, you know. And that, considering there's no other equally valuable alternative on the team right now, why trade him if he's as good as some people value him and then so valuable to the team? Not like he was redundant with another player... You get the REAL flawed logic there?

And that sometiems the same guys who don't want to draft a center.

The other alternative is that he isn't as good a some value him in a possible trade... Even the dumbest GM wouldn't ever give you 13 and 15 for Jak nor Jak + a pack of meh players. As I aleready said, Jak dosen't move the needle enough in any team that would justify giving really valuable assets away for him, there's plenty other alternatives.

[DPG21920]

No shit? Thanks for the update about how trades are working..

The point is precisely that spurs do need to put a center on the floor every night, you know. And that, considering there's no other equally valuable alternative on the team right now, why trade him if he's as good as some people value him and then so valuable to the team? Not like he was redundant with another player... You get the REAL flawed logic there?

And that sometiems the same guys who don't want to draft a center.

The other alternative is that he isn't as good a some value him in a possible trade... Even the dumbest GM wouldn't ever give you 13 and 15 for Jak nor Jak + a pack of meh players. As I aleready said, Jak dosen't move the needle enough in any team that would justify giving really valuable assets away for him, there's plenty other alternatives.

That is your opinion. Hes very good, but SA isn’t even a PO team. But him being really good on a team that is already a PO team or really close and needing a C? Makes sense.

Spurs can put any C on the floor, they arent a contender so its not like downgrading that position, especially if you receive great value for him, functionally hurts the team. They are same level with or without him more or less unless their plan is to significantly add talent at PF to win now

[KingKev]

I'm looking at the Duren highlights and he reminds me a lot of Stromile Swift.

Not really sure this is what we need but damn would be so fun to watch DJ play with a Stro Show type player. Hell give me drunk Keon Clark off the bench.

[SAGirl]

Are you saying you're not into the "13 and 15 for Jak" cult?

Some people want to dump Jak then expect the moon in return. Why trading Jak if he's that worthy then? Because of his contract? Well it would be the same for any other team.
Yup. I am not attached to Jakob and really would like the Spurs to do something similar to what they did with White and turn him into assets, and make a move for someone with a higher ceiling. Ayton is someone I have mentioned, but wouldn't mind picking up Duren or Williams, and someone else as RC Drunkford suggests.

The problem is that I think the Spurs are not getting a White-like haul for Jakob. If they were, the Spurs would have traded him already I believe. The rumors leaked from other teams is that the Spurs were asking too much. So there we have it.

Timvp himself is proponent of a contradiction. On the one hand he says the center position is devalued and not worth investing a lot on, and on the other he says Jakob can fetch at least a White-like return: a first round pick, a future first round swap, a legitimate rotation player, and a prospect. That only perpetuates the fan expectation like you say.

White was dealt to a playoff team that knew him well (surely coach Ime had input at least vouching for him). It was a win now move, where they went all in for a title (they didn't get it but were close). White was also in a cost controlled deal. Whether he's overpaid or not, he was a fixed cost, and even if he exploded and looked like their third best player for the playoffs, (bc we know White has been shooting under his percentages, and he is capable of short streaks of hot shooting) he would still be under contract, and not a risk to be gone that summer. That certainty has value as well.

Jakob on the last season of his deal is not the same thing. He's due a raise, and can leave in the summer to some team that offers him more, or has him in a role he likes, etc. There is more that I can say about it, but I don't think he's worth a haul. He's worth something, at least a first round pick I'd say, but not a haul, and him being a one year rental, maybe to some teams he's not worth the risk of leaving in FA either after giving up assets for him.

[KingKev]

That is your opinion. Hes very good, but SA isn’t even a PO team. But him being really good on a team that is already a PO team or really close and needing a C? Makes sense.

Spurs can put any C on the floor, they arent a contender so its not like downgrading that position, especially if you receive great value for him, functionally hurts the team. They are same level with or without him more or less unless their plan is to significantly add talent at PF to win now

Underrated view. Jak makes us a play-in contender, that’s how bad we are. I like him and admire how much he has grown. I also think DJ spoon fed him on the offensive end all year. If you can get a first and another asset it isnworth considering versus having to pay/risking losing him next off-season.

[KobesAchilles]

Jak is our second most important player and he is on 9 million a year . The dude does winning things that don’t show up on the stat sheet. KAT was the lead dog on a losing team. They are only winning bc of Ant not bc of Towns. Jak does all the things Towns refuses to do, he sets hard screens, guards on both the post and the perimeter, and gets dirty. Towns is a pansy of a big man who just wants to jack up jumpers all day. In a vacuum Towns is the better player but in reality, Jak plays winning basketball and Towns plays like a wuss.

JJJ is injured all the time and is more focused on a twitter beef with Klay Thompson than winning games. Plus they are paying him $26 million dollars a year to score 4 more points a game and rebound at a lesser rate than Jak. Both are plus defenders but 4 more points, more shots while giving less rebounds and assists isn’t enough to say he is a better player than Jak.

[rjv]

Jak is our second most important player and he is on 9 million a year . The dude does winning things that don’t show up on the stat sheet. KAT was the lead dog on a losing team. They are only winning bc of Ant not bc of Towns. Jak does all the things Towns refuses to do, he sets hard screens, guards on both the post and the perimeter, and gets dirty. Towns is a pansy of a big man who just wants to jack up jumpers all day. In a vacuum Towns is the better player but in reality, Jak plays winning basketball and Towns plays like a wuss.

JJJ is injured all the time and is more focused on a twitter beef with Klay Thompson than winning games. Plus they are paying him $26 million dollars a year to score 4 more points a game and rebound at a lesser rate than Jak. Both are plus defenders but 4 more points, more shots while giving less rebounds and assists isn’t enough to say he is a better player than Jak.

:bobo

[DPG21920]

Jak is our second most important player and he is on 9 million a year . The dude does winning things that don’t show up on the stat sheet. KAT was the lead dog on a losing team. They are only winning bc of Ant not bc of Towns. Jak does all the things Towns refuses to do, he sets hard screens, guards on both the post and the perimeter, and gets dirty. Towns is a pansy of a big man who just wants to jack up jumpers all day. In a vacuum Towns is the better player but in reality, Jak plays winning basketball and Towns plays like a wuss.

JJJ is injured all the time and is more focused on a twitter beef with Klay Thompson than winning games. Plus they are paying him $26 million dollars a year to score 4 more points a game and rebound at a lesser rate than Jak. Both are plus defenders but 4 more points, more shots while giving less rebounds and assists isn’t enough to say he is a better player than Jak.

That can all be true (I dont think it is) and it still not change the point. We had Jak and we see where we are at. He is damn good and if you can get damn good value you should because even with him, SA is not doing anything right now.

Now, if SA has a plan to use their massive trove of assets to leap this team to a legit PO team? Sure, keeping him makes sense. But unless you are doing that, its hard not to make case for trading him (assuming of course you get something worth it. You dont just dump him to dump him)

[mo7888]

That can all be true (I dont think it is) and it still not change the point. We had Jak and we see where we are at. He is damn good and if you can get damn good value you should because even with him, SA is not doing anything right now.

Now, if SA has a plan to use their massive trove of assets to leap this team to a legit PO team? Sure, keeping him makes sense. But unless you are doing that, its hard not to make case for trading him (assuming of course you get something worth it. You dont just dump him to dump him)

I think your last paragraph is the key to a whole lot of the narratives we see playing out (from jak to pick 9 to Cap space)... we don't know what direction the FO wants to take but I think Thursday night will give us a strong indication..

[Robz4000]

Yeah, which undercuts his value. If I were another team I’d be wary of giving up too much for Jak without assurances.

I’m starting to favor the idea of an extend now (up to $60M/4y), and trade at the deadline scenario.

If Poeltl would take that there's no reason to trade him tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

Can‘t wait for the meltdown if this happens :lol

https://twitter.com/matthew_tynan/status/1538940285094338563?s=21
https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1538941489883004934?s=21

[tim_duncan_fan]

"Don't tell them you worked out with us" sounds about right for CIAPATFO.

Good. This is the way, guys.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think a lot of people here are missing the point. I wouldn‘t trade Poeltl for the Charlotte picks. You trade Poeltl for a starting PF only. That‘s the hole on this team that you can‘t fix in free agency or in our draft range. If you can put a deal together you draft a big for his replacement. If not keep him and try to get a PF otherwise. Yes teams won‘t pay as much for Jakob as they did for White, but there‘s plenty of interest.

I‘m basically saying if you can package him for OG Anounoby do it. If you want John Collins it‘s probably better to keep him since the Hawks want 3-and-D guards. A Collins deal looks unrealistic to me though, seems like the Kings will trade #4 for him

[DPG21920]

I think a lot of people here are missing the point. I wouldn‘t trade Poeltl for the Charlotte picks. You trade Poeltl for a starting PF only. That‘s the hole on this team that you can‘t fix in free agency or in our draft range. If you can put a deal together you draft a big for his replacement. If not keep him and try to get a PF otherwise. Yes teams won‘t pay as much for Jakob as they did for White, but there‘s plenty of interest.

I‘m basically saying if you can package him for OG Anounoby do it. If you want John Collins it‘s probably better to keep him since the Hawks want 3-and-D guards. A Collins deal looks unrealistic to me though, seems like the Kings will trade #4 for him

I dont think its this clear cut. I agree if you can get OG or whatever you do it. But I definitely think getting 13 for him is also something SA should consider too.

SA needs value and assets and talent. Especially if they are not going to use trades/cap space to leap this team into legit PO contention.

[scott]

I want Mathurin, but if we could get OG for Jak + maybe 20 or 25, I say we do that in a heartbeat and draft Duren at 9.

[RC_Drunkford]

I dont think its this clear cut. I agree if you can get OG or whatever you do it. But I definitely think getting 13 for him is also something SA should consider too.

SA needs value and assets and talent. Especially if they are not going to use trades/cap space to leap this team into legit PO contention.

they already have a bunch of picks in this draft though. They need starting caliber players not 5 picks in one draft. 13 is certainly attractive, but there‘s no doubt Poeltl can land you a starting 4

[Chinook]

The idea of "Poeltl's good, so it doesn't make sense to trade him" is ridiculous fan logic. There are tons of scenarios where it makes sense to keep Poeltl. I'd go so far as to say I'd prefer that he stay. But him being good is why we're talking about the team trading him, not because he's bad.

The Spurs are not likely to draft their next superstar. Folks just have to accept that. Jakob has been a good example of a ninth pick working out. Drafting a center with the hope they can have a similar impact as Poeltl while fitting the modern game a bit more makes sense if you think it's there.

That said Poeltl is a good player. I'd go so far as to say he's the only player who's already proven to be good enough to pencil into a contending lineup. That belief explains all of why other teams seem to want him, why there are scenarios where SA should absolutely endeavor to keep him AND why the Spurs shouldn't consider moving him as a legitimate step toward competing this year. They aren't just a PF away. They're two top-six rotation guards and two starting forwards away, with at least one of those players being an All-Star. Maybe they draft some of those guys. Maybe some develop next year. I hope so. But they aren't a boat with a hole to patch. They are scattered lumber floating down a stream someone is trying to lash together to avoid drowning. Outside of acquiring Ayton or Turner, trading Poeltl is a sign the Spurs are taking a step back and will look at a more complete rebuild, not them putting on the finishing touches of a strong young core.

[objective]

Can‘t wait for the meltdown if this happens :lol

https://twitter.com/matthew_tynan/status/1538940285094338563?s=21
https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1538941489883004934?s=21

If there was effort to obscure Duren workout(s), rather than just him messing around ...

I suppose the obvious is that they'd be worried about trades in front of them. Portland's pick at 7 and New Orleans at 8. Portland's been in rumors for Jerami Grant, and Duren +5 would be interesting.

The other team I could see them worried about is OKC moving to 8. Lots of bs gets floated by OKC, so I don't find these reports of OKC moving up for Sharpe that believable. Last year the rumors were them loving Bouknight, then they swerved everyone with taking Giddey higher than expected.

Draft is fun

[KingKev]

The idea of "Poeltl's good, so it doesn't make sense to trade him" is ridiculous fan logic. There are tons of scenarios where it makes sense to keep Poeltl. I'd go so far as to say I'd prefer that he stay. But him being good is why we're talking about the team trading him, not because he's bad.

The Spurs are not likely to draft their next superstar. Folks just have to accept that. Jakob has been a good example of a ninth pick working out. Drafting a center with the hope they can have a similar impact as Poeltl while fitting the modern game a bit more makes sense if you think it's there.

That said Poeltl is a good player. I'd go so far as to say he's the only player who's already proven to be good enough to pencil into a contending lineup. That belief explains all of why other teams seem to want him, why there are scenarios where SA should absolutely endeavor to keep him AND why the Spurs shouldn't consider moving him as a legitimate step toward competing this year. They aren't just a PF away. They're two top-six rotation guards and two starting forwards away, with at least one of those players being an All-Star. Maybe they draft some of those guys. Maybe some develop next year. I hope so. But they aren't a boat with a hole to patch. They are scattered lumber floating down a stream someone is trying to lash together to avoid drowning. Outside of acquiring Ayton or Turner, trading Poeltl is a sign the Spurs are taking a step back and will look at a more complete rebuild, not them putting on the finishing touches of a strong young core.

I agree with this other than that we have a strong young core. We have DJ and a few decent young pieces. That’s it. Moving Jak makes sense in that we are already closing in on anither rebuild because we didn’t do it right the first time.

[mo7888]

If there was effort to obscure Duren workout(s), rather than just him messing around ...

I suppose the obvious is that they'd be worried about trades in front of them. Portland's pick at 7 and New Orleans at 8. Portland's been in rumors for Jerami Grant, and Duren +5 would be interesting.

The other team I could see them worried about is OKC moving to 8. Lots of bs gets floated by OKC, so I don't find these reports of OKC moving up for Sharpe that believable. Last year the rumors were them loving Bouknight, then they swerved everyone with taking Giddey higher than expected.

Draft is fun

I think the okc moving up for Sharpe is just smoke myself... SGA, Giddey, Chet, and Duren looks alot better than SGA, Giddey, Chet, and Sharpe moving forward... I think both Okc and the Spurs are high on Duren right now..

[objective]

Looking through Twitter looks like Duren gave the same answer about not knowing if he could disclose when asked about OKC

This sounds like his personality to screw around. Locked on Blazers had an episode talking doing things differently with the media in Portland for his workout, just nonsense really

[RC_Drunkford]

The idea of "Poeltl's good, so it doesn't make sense to trade him" is ridiculous fan logic. There are tons of scenarios where it makes sense to keep Poeltl. I'd go so far as to say I'd prefer that he stay. But him being good is why we're talking about the team trading him, not because he's bad.

The Spurs are not likely to draft their next superstar. Folks just have to accept that. Jakob has been a good example of a ninth pick working out. Drafting a center with the hope they can have a similar impact as Poeltl while fitting the modern game a bit more makes sense if you think it's there.

That said Poeltl is a good player. I'd go so far as to say he's the only player who's already proven to be good enough to pencil into a contending lineup. That belief explains all of why other teams seem to want him, why there are scenarios where SA should absolutely endeavor to keep him AND why the Spurs shouldn't consider moving him as a legitimate step toward competing this year. They aren't just a PF away. They're two top-six rotation guards and two starting forwards away, with at least one of those players being an All-Star. Maybe they draft some of those guys. Maybe some develop next year. I hope so. But they aren't a boat with a hole to patch. They are scattered lumber floating down a stream someone is trying to lash together to avoid drowning. Outside of acquiring Ayton or Turner, trading Poeltl is a sign the Spurs are taking a step back and will look at a more complete rebuild, not them putting on the finishing touches of a strong young core.

so trading Poeltl for Anounoby would be a step back? Just curious

[Chinook]

I agree with this other than that we have a strong young core. We have DJ and a few decent young pieces. That’s it. Moving Jak makes sense in that we are already closing in on anither rebuild because we didn’t do it right the first time.

Maybe I wasn't clear in what I meant. I agree with you that the team doesn't have a strong young core that was the point I was making. Trading Poeltl with the expectation of completing the core doesn't make sense, because they don't have anything like a real core yet.

[Mr. Body]

I think the okc moving up for Sharpe is just smoke myself... SGA, Giddey, Chet, and Duren looks alot better than SGA, Giddey, Chet, and Sharpe moving forward... I think both Okc and the Spurs are high on Duren right now..

Duren next to Chet is a nightmare to me. It's precisely what they need to do. Holmgren is more of a PF and needs some beef next to him. Suddenly the Thunder look like they have a direction and just need shooters. (Yes, their perimeter defense is suspect, but with Giddey it's never going to be great.)

The 'smoke' about the Spurs targeting Duren does not have to mean they're targeting him for themselves. The trade down to Charotte is still a possibility.

[KingKev]

Maybe I wasn't clear in what I meant. I agree with you that the team doesn't have a strong young core that was the point I was making. Trading Poeltl with the expectation of completing the core doesn't make sense, because they don't have anything like a real core yet.

Understood. I like Jak but I also think the D White treatment for guys like Jak and Keldon is imminent. If we aren’t going to tank, and are unlikely to make a splash via free agency harvesting gains on guys like that are the only way we will eventually land a future cornerstone.

[Chinook]

so trading Poeltl for Anounoby would be a step back? Just curious

It's not realistic, since OG's value is way higher. But on its own, it's a lateral move that would have to be supplemented by aggressively attacking the position.

Somehow getting OG for just Poeltl and filler, drafting someone like Davis at 9 and macing Ayton could make the Spurs interesting. But simply going from the current team with Jakob to the current team with OG isn't a meaningful step toward contention, even though it's a pipe dream.

[DPG21920]

they already have a bunch of picks in this draft though. They need starting caliber players not 5 picks in one draft. 13 is certainly attractive, but there‘s no doubt Poeltl can land you a starting 4

You can trade out of 20 and 25 or use them to move up further. You dont have to keep all of them..

[DPG21920]

It's not realistic, since OG's value is way higher. But on its own, it's a lateral move that would have to be supplemented by aggressively attacking the position.

Somehow getting OG for just Poeltl and filler, drafting someone like Davis at 9 and macing Ayton could make the Spurs interesting. But simply going from the current team with Jakob to the current team with OG isn't a meaningful step toward contention, even though it's a pipe dream.

Correct - it would be something like Trade for OG, trade for Collins or sign Ayton and move up in draft using whatever is left of 20/25 and future picks to great two lottery pick players for rotation.

But even just trading Jakob for OG would be a win (if costs were decent) because you can replace C easier. It shuffles things round, but in a more palatable format to build which is ok too.

[The Truth #6]

Drafting a center is better then another doomsday/mismanagement of draft assets, meaning I’ll take it before drafting another cherub with low athleticism, but ideally neither and we get a player with upside and/or skills at a useful position, because Duren/Williams are a far cry from Embiid, Joker, KAT, and Williams/Duren could easily be a step down from Yak.

[RC_Drunkford]

It's not realistic, since OG's value is way higher. But on its own, it's a lateral move that would have to be supplemented by aggressively attacking the position.

Somehow getting OG for just Poeltl and filler, drafting someone like Davis at 9 and macing Ayton could make the Spurs interesting. But simply going from the current team with Jakob to the current team with OG isn't a meaningful step toward contention, even though it's a pipe dream.

I see it as very realistic actually since reports say they would do it for a starting C. So Poeltl, J-Rich and 25 should work and would make both teams better, but of course we can only guess.

[Chinook]

I see it as very realistic actually since reports say they would do it for a starting C. So Poeltl, J-Rich and 25 should work and would make both teams better, but of course we can only guess.

It would be like Detroit offering Grant and filler for Murray since they hear the Spurs want a starting PF.

[RC_Drunkford]

It would be like Detroit offering Grant and filler for Murray since they hear the Spurs want a starting PF.

that's a pretty bad example tbh. The Raptors were clearly interested in a Poeltl trade since the deadline and he has played there before so an extension would basically be guaranteed. Also OG is not the best player on the Raptors roster and the Spurs don't have 3 starting level PGs

[AFBlue]

Duren makes sense as an upside play and BPA given where they are in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed with the pick.

[Chinook]

that's a pretty bad example tbh. The Raptors were clearly interested in a Poeltl trade since the deadline and he has played there before so an extension would basically be guaranteed. Also OG is not the best player on the Raptors roster and the Spurs don't have 3 starting level PGs

OG and Murray have similar value (both higher than Poeltl). Grant and Poeltl have similar value. The gap is real. Toronto wanted a center just like you think the Spurs want a PF. The Spurs don't have three starting PGs, but they are invested in their guards and could easily draft another. OG and Barnes play SF and even C, so it's not like there isn't room for all three in a rotation.

Also, Poeltl would almost certainly refuse a max extension. The debate isn't whether he's worth it but whether anyone could convince him to sign it. It would be a surprise if he didn't just play the market.

[SAGirl]

Jak is our second most important player and he is on 9 million a year . The dude does winning things that don’t show up on the stat sheet. KAT was the lead dog on a losing team. They are only winning bc of Ant not bc of Towns. Jak does all the things Towns refuses to do, he sets hard screens, guards on both the post and the perimeter, and gets dirty. Towns is a pansy of a big man who just wants to jack up jumpers all day. In a vacuum Towns is the better player but in reality, Jak plays winning basketball and Towns plays like a wuss.

JJJ is injured all the time and is more focused on a twitter beef with Klay Thompson than winning games. Plus they are paying him $26 million dollars a year to score 4 more points a game and rebound at a lesser rate than Jak. Both are plus defenders but 4 more points, more shots while giving less rebounds and assists isn’t enough to say he is a better player than Jak.
KAT was the best player in a team that made the playoffs with a 46-36 record, that is a much better record than the Spurs. I do think Edwards has the potential to be the better player and looks like it sometimes. If anything KAT having a legit costar in Edwards (or vice versa) -- the two together has given rise to that team. Does anyone else in that team looked like a legit costar for KAT, or for Edwards? Certainly not, and he was not great in his series against the Grizzlies, but he gave them a lot of trouble, as he's a very difficult player to defend. He beats himself more often than not, which is why I am not fan but if you are saying Jakob --the second best player in a team that missed the playoffs with a record of 34-48 -- is better than KAT leading a team to a 46-36 record, you have something to sell that I am not buying. What's more KAT forces adjustments to other team's defenses because you need a guy that can guard him. It's often overlooked how he made the Grizzlies starting center, Adams unplayable, completely. He's a very tough player to defend and even then, he still went off. Look at KAT stats both regular season and playoffs. Can Jakob win a series for you honestly? Can he even get you in the playoffs? Is he a multiple time all star? Does he have that potential? Can he win you a series against KAT? Noooo. Not against KAT, not against VAlanciunas, not against the Grizzlies, and not against anybody... not in this team anyway.

I am not even a KAT fan tbh, not at all, but you are just ridiculous with your homer glasses.

[The Truth #6]

I’m curious how Yak’s camp/posse sees his future with the Spurs. Were feelings hurt about draft rumors? Has he grown tired of picking up tourists at The Pearl? Seems like he chose to stay in SA. Seems doubtful he’d want to leave, but that’s the only logical factor I can think of for pursuing a center, but even then, he wanting to leave would make a potential trade easier. Seems weird all around. And if CHA is in need of a center, I don’t see them trading with us unless Duren goes early, but if that were the case someone would fall to us, so why would we trade.

Yeah. Draft night will be fun.

[Thomas82]

just watched some too and he's def my guy. Love his atlheticism, energy and fire. Dude is an alley-oop machine, Murray would love him. He'll quickly give you 10 & 10 plus a couple blocks a game. Totally different player than Jak. he's stil a bit raw but only 18 and Im' sure he could develop some post up game, shoot mechanics are OK. Spurs need that contagious energy, you know guys who dunk like they wanted to hurt you.

Cosign!! If this kid is still available at 9, we should sprint to the podium.

[Spurs Homer]

Watching Durens highlight video is actually one of the very few that excite me -

I would hope the Spurs pick him...

and conversely -
Duren looks like the guy that a HATED team will land - and we will be pissed every time the Spurs play that team.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Watching Durens highlight video is actually one of the very few that excite me -

I would hope the Spurs pick him...

and conversely -
Duren looks like the guy that a HATED team will land - and we will be pissed every time the Spurs play that team.

I am pre-emptively laughing at the ferocious oops we will be helpless to stop.

[SAGirl]

Can‘t wait for the meltdown if this happens :lol

https://twitter.com/matthew_tynan/status/1538940285094338563?s=21

https://twitter.com/thetyjager/status/1538941489883004934?s=21



I'd absolutely support this tbh. I am on board. Thanks for sharing btw. :bobo

[rjv]

KAT was the best player in a team that made the playoffs with a 46-36 record, that is a much better record than the Spurs. I do think Edwards has the potential to be the better player and looks like it sometimes. If anything KAT having a legit costar in Edwards (or vice versa) -- the two together has given rise to that team. Does anyone else in that team looked like a legit costar for KAT, or for Edwards? Certainly not, and he was not great in his series against the Grizzlies, but he gave them a lot of trouble, as he's a very difficult player to defend. He beats himself more often than not, which is why I am not fan but if you are saying Jakob --the second best player in a team that missed the playoffs with a record of 34-48 -- is better than KAT leading a team to a 46-36 record, you have something to sell that I am not buying. What's more KAT forces adjustments to other team's defenses because you need a guy that can guard him. It's often overlooked how he made the Grizzlies starting center, Adams unplayable, completely. He's a very tough player to defend and even then, he still went off. Look at KAT stats both regular season and playoffs. Can Jakob win a series for you honestly? Can he even get you in the playoffs? Is he a multiple time all star? Does he have that potential? Can he win you a series against KAT? Noooo. Not against KAT, not against VAlanciunas, not against the Grizzlies, and not against anybody... not in this team anyway.

I am not even a KAT fan tbh, not at all, but you are just ridiculous with your homer glasses.

that's not what i got from the post. in fact, KA specifically wrote that KAT is the better player. what i got from the post was that Jakob is a better value. i think that's undebatable.

[KobesAchilles]

KAT was the best player in a team that made the playoffs with a 46-36 record, that is a much better record than the Spurs. I do think Edwards has the potential to be the better player and looks like it sometimes. If anything KAT having a legit costar in Edwards (or vice versa) -- the two together has given rise to that team. Does anyone else in that team looked like a legit costar for KAT, or for Edwards? Certainly not, and he was not great in his series against the Grizzlies, but he gave them a lot of trouble, as he's a very difficult player to defend. He beats himself more often than not, which is why I am not fan but if you are saying Jakob --the second best player in a team that missed the playoffs with a record of 34-48 -- is better than KAT leading a team to a 46-36 record, you have something to sell that I am not buying. What's more KAT forces adjustments to other team's defenses because you need a guy that can guard him. It's often overlooked how he made the Grizzlies starting center, Adams unplayable, completely. He's a very tough player to defend and even then, he still went off. Look at KAT stats both regular season and playoffs. Can Jakob win a series for you honestly? Can he even get you in the playoffs? Is he a multiple time all star? Does he have that potential? Can he win you a series against KAT? Noooo. Not against KAT, not against VAlanciunas, not against the Grizzlies, and not against anybody... not in this team anyway.

I am not even a KAT fan tbh, not at all, but you are just ridiculous with your homer glasses.
id rather have Jak on my team than Towns. With all things being equal then of course you take Towns but they aren’t. Towns is immature. He doesn’t play a lick of defense. If KG AND Jimmy Butler say he’s soft on that end then I take their word for it. What propelled the Wolves wasn’t that Towns got any better it’s that Ant got better. He is a culture changer along side the Somalian Pirate. Towns has talent. But his mindset sucks and his lack of work ethic is legendary. The dude doesn’t even get in stance half the time he plays defense. Seriously look at Towns and all of his skills and his God given athletic ability and ask yourself why isn’t he ever mentioned as a rim protector? Why isn’t he ever mentioned as someone who puts fear into people coming into the paint. The Wolves gave up on Towns ever being a good defender and big man defense is very very important. They decided they needed defense everywhere else and it was smart.

They are going to regress next year and it will all be Towns fault. They won’t even make the playoffs next year and it’s bc he’s a shit leader. And the wolves are paying max money to a shit leader who plays no defense, does no winning plays other than shooting the ball. if I ran the wolves, I would trade him away. You could get a massive haul for him atm and his stock is never going to be higher.

[SAGirl]

that's not what i got from the post. in fact, KA specifically wrote that KAT is the better player. what i got from the post was that Jakob is a better value. i think that's undebatable.
You pointed me to a missed point he made, but the entirety of his context is difficult to take seriously. It's better to pay for better talent, otherwise you will end up paying a ton for McDermott types, so the better guys get paid a premium, that is how the league is.

He is singing praises to Jakob now, but wait until he is paid market value and still can't hit FT and the Spurs are still in limbo. It's really not the money for me, at least, though I know that's something that others fixate on. Is about trying to get better, and Jakob is not someone that you hold on to dear life because you can't replace. You don't give him away without a fair return, but there are possibly upgrades to be had at that position and I want the Spurs to be looking.

----------------

And that is without mentioning trades proposed by others like RC Drunkford who are looking for trades that improve other spots using Jakob and then replacing Jakob, who honestly Timvp premise is that center production is easier to replace, so you do that.

[TD 21]

I've said all along that I don't buy it and it's probably just draftniks putting two and two together (excepting Samanic, team has went guard/wing heavy for a while and are thin with 4/5 youth).

Probably the best/most likely course of action is to pick shot creation at 9, then presuming Williams makes it to 13/15, attempt to trade for him at that point.

Disagree on a number of points though. Center is a long term position of need and the position is and will remain valuable (Warriors are unique and R. Williams, on one leg, was the highest impact player on a Finals team), just in different ways.

I wouldn't be concerned with whether a certain type can play a major role deep in the playoffs for a franchise that seems content to be a treadmill team.

[SAGirl]

I've said all along that I don't buy it and it's probably just draftniks putting two and two together (excepting Samanic, team has went guard/wing heavy for a while and are thin with 4/5 youth).

Probably the best/most likely course of action is to pick shot creation at 9, then presuming Williams makes it to 13/15, attempt to trade for him at that point.

Disagree on a number of points though. Center is a long term position of need and the position is and will remain valuable (Warriors are unique and R. Williams, on one leg, was the highest impact player on a Finals team), just in different ways.

I wouldn't be concerned with whether a certain type can play a major role deep in the playoffs for a franchise that seems content to be a treadmill team.
I mean, the Spurs thing to do is to extend Jakob at market value and look for the spursy high character wing/guard types, very young, with a shot that still needs to develop and who we won't really be able to count on until year 3... that's kind of a given.

Maybe the surprise this season is going against their perceived trend, but your post just brought me back to Spurs Earth.

[Mr. Body]

I can also see taking a hopefully superior guard at #9 -- let's say Johnny Davis -- and assuming no trade up with the rest, going for Minott at 20 or 25. I don't think there are quick hit solutions to the PF crisis, and this is why we will see Landale and possibly Zollins there in certain sets. I do wonder at the team's interest in Liddell, but he doesn't seem like the solution there, either. A guy like LaRavia to me is more of a temporary patch on a threadbare elbow than anything.

[rjv]

You pointed me to a missed point he made, but the entirety of his context is difficult to take seriously. It's better to pay for better talent, otherwise you will end up paying a ton for McDermott types, so the better guys get paid a premium, that is how the league is.

He is singing praises to Jakob now, but wait until he is paid market value and still can't hit FT and the Spurs are still in limbo. It's really not the money for me, at least, though I know that's something that others fixate on. Is about trying to get better, and Jakob is not someone that you hold on to dear life because you can't replace. You don't give him away without a fair return, but there are possibly upgrades to be had at that position and I want the Spurs to be looking.

----------------

And that is without mentioning trades proposed by others like RC Drunkford who are looking for trades that improve other spots using Jakob and then replacing Jakob, who honestly Timvp premise is that center production is easier to replace, so you do that.

if the spurs can resign jakob and still get him at a bargain rate, i'm perfectly fine with that. if he asks for more then it would become more of an issue if he asks for an unreasonable amount. but here in ST too many posters seem to equate Jakob's value to be the equivalent to a 13th or 15th selection in this draft and i just don't get that at all. jakob has flaws but he does a lot of things very well. i'd rather keep poeltl and get a better PF than just take on any center or draft another center with just as many flaws if not more, and one that will take a couple of years to develop at that (unless, drafting such a player takes the place of the value that jakob currently affords the spurs).

[TD 21]

if the spurs can resign jakob and still get him at a bargain rate, i'm perfectly fine with that. if he asks for more then it would become more of an issue if he asks for an unreasonable amount. but here in ST too many posters seem to equate Jakob's value to be the equivalent to a 13th or 15th selection in this draft and i just don't get that at all. jakob has flaws but he does a lot of things very well. i'd rather keep poeltl and get a better PF than just take on any center or draft another center with just as many flaws if not more, and one that will take a couple of years to develop at that (unless, drafting such a player takes the place of the value that jakob currently affords the spurs).

Wrong. He'll be almost 28 when his next contract kicks in and is a high floor/low ceiling type, who lacks versatility (not a vertical spacer, terrible free throw shooter, mostly a drop/up to the level p-n-r defender).

Williams is a similar archetype, only he can do the first two things and is 6 years younger. Doesn't mean he'll necessarily be as good or better, but I like his chances of at least being close and if they can get Washington Jr. as well, they'd at least have a credible stopgap four instead of reaching on a non shooter like Sochan who can't play alongside a rim runner.

[SAGirl]

if the spurs can resign jakob and still get him at a bargain rate, i'm perfectly fine with that. if he asks for more then it would become more of an issue if he asks for an unreasonable amount. but here in ST too many posters seem to equate Jakob's value to be the equivalent to a 13th or 15th selection in this draft and i just don't get that at all. jakob has flaws but he does a lot of things very well. i'd rather keep poeltl and get a better PF than just take on any center or draft another center with just as many flaws if not more, and one that will take a couple of years to develop at that (unless, drafting such a player takes the place of the value that jakob currently affords the spurs).

Other posters have argued the PF point better than me, and look for avenues to improve there that involve trades, but overall I think Jakob signs at market value. It's what the Spurs offered White, and Murray (who was coming off an injury year, and didn't have yet the sustained production he has achieved).

Market value for him is minimum $15 mill/year... and that is his minimum. Possibly goes as high as $17-$20/yr and I am going there by the contract Adams has, who is a comparable player and signed a 2 yr/$35 mill year in 2020. I'd argue Jakob is better and needs to get the higher end there, but I am not the best cap person/trade machine person so I am open to dissenting opinions. Is he worth it? Yea, IMO specially if the Spurs are a competitive team. If they aren't, then the team really just needs to be aware for opportunities to improve, which includes him being again in the trade market. It's precisely because of this uncertainty --the possibility the Spurs need to reset the clock-- which IMO means Jakob goes at a market value deal.

[KingKev]

Other posters have argued the PF point better than me, and look for avenues to improve there that involve trades, but overall I think Jakob signs at market value. It's what the Spurs offered White, and Murray (who was coming off an injury year, and didn't have yet the sustained production he has achieved).

Market value for him is minimum $15 mill/year... and that is his minimum. Possibly goes as high as $17-$20/yr and I am going there by the contract Adams has, who is a comparable player and signed a 2 yr/$35 mill year in 2020. I'd argue Jakob is better and needs to get the higher end there, but I am not the best cap person/trade machine person so I am open to dissenting opinions. Is he worth it? Yea, IMO specially if the Spurs are a competitive team. If they aren't, then the team really just needs to be aware for opportunities to improve, which includes him being again in the trade market. It's precisely because of this uncertainty --the possibility the Spurs need to reset the clock-- which IMO means Jakob goes at a market value deal.

I concur. We saw a passing of the guard this last year regarding general management and I think this is how Wright will continue to operate going forward.

[SAGirl]

Also, Poeltl would almost certainly refuse a max extension. The debate isn't whether he's worth it but whether anyone could convince him to sign it. It would be a surprise if he didn't just play the market.
I have a question about this statement Chinook. I think this is tied to some obscure capology knowledge I am ignorant of, like him being eligible for a smaller extension than he is worth. Like he can get more as an UFA next season.

If I understand you right.... the chances are Jakob is going into next summer as an UFA. Honestly it makes sense to me that he does that, bc he can play the market and see where he can get more, and there is no incentive to give discounts to the Spurs, quite simply because their future is uncertain, including having to reset the clock on this version and trade what veterans they have to pick up prospects if they underachieve, and he would be one of those veterans to be on the trade market again.

[KingKev]

I have a question about this statement Chinook. I think this is tied to some obscure capology knowledge I am ignorant of, like him being eligible for a smaller extension than he is worth. Like he can get more as an UFA next season.

If I understand you right.... the chances are Jakob is going into next summer as an UFA. Honestly it makes sense to me that he does that, bc he can play the market and see where he can get more, and there is no incentive to give discounts to the Spurs, quite simply because their future is uncertain, including having to reset the clock on this version and trade what veterans they have to pick up prospects if they underachieve, and he would be one of those veterans to be on the trade market again.

His max on an extension is 4yrs 50ish this offseason.

[spurraider21]

Didn't realize Poeltl was unrestricted next summer. If they can't get an extension worked out by September I'd prolly trade him.
people were pretty mad when he signed for 3/27 or whatever it was but its turned out to be a hell of a deal for us.

[Robz4000]

people were pretty mad when he signed for 3/27 or whatever it was but its turned out to be a hell of a deal for us.

Never understood that tbh. He prolly could've gotten $30mil+ but took a minor discount to stay, albeit he forced the Spurs' hand when he said he was gonna sign an offer sheet with Atlanta.

[Mr. Body]

people were pretty mad when he signed for 3/27 or whatever it was but its turned out to be a hell of a deal for us.

Including timvp. Posted an article about how it was a mistake, iirc.

[KobesAchilles]

You pointed me to a missed point he made, but the entirety of his context is difficult to take seriously. It's better to pay for better talent, otherwise you will end up paying a ton for McDermott types, so the better guys get paid a premium, that is how the league is.

He is singing praises to Jakob now, but wait until he is paid market value and still can't hit FT and the Spurs are still in limbo. It's really not the money for me, at least, though I know that's something that others fixate on. Is about trying to get better, and Jakob is not someone that you hold on to dear life because you can't replace. You don't give him away without a fair return, but there are possibly upgrades to be had at that position and I want the Spurs to be looking.

----------------

And that is without mentioning trades proposed by others like RC Drunkford who are looking for trades that improve other spots using Jakob and then replacing Jakob, who honestly Timvp premise is that center production is easier to replace, so you do that.
As a franchise player or a basketball player skills wise, Towns is far above Poeltl. But for our team I would rather have Poeltl than Towns. There’s a number of reasons for it. The first is attitude. Poeltl isn’t a malcontent at all and is no longer a lazy POS. Pop got that coached out of him by not playing him or starting him. It humbled him to a degree. You can’t do that with Towns. He would whine and then ask for a trade and demand to be treated differently bc he’s a #1 pick. It’s why the Wolves have been shitty with him, it’s why they brought in KG his last year to try and mold him when he was young and show him what he needed. It’s why they brought in Jimmy Butler. The whole franchise knows that Towns doesn’t put any effort into half of the floor. It’s not that he’s a bad defender or slow or incapable of it, he flat out refuses to do it.

What Towns does significantly better than Poeltl is score the basketball. He posts better and has a much much better shot. He has worked his tail off in that aspect of his game. There’s zero comparison here between the two. Poeltl has so many flaws offensively that it’s ridiculous. BUT he has learned something extremely important and id argue that if Towns would do this one thing then the Wolves would be a better team

Poeltl creates space for others like nobody else’s business. When his man clogs the paint, Poeltl will literally grab them and shove them out of the way to create space for DJ or whoever. The refs will call it maybe once a game but it changes the whole flow of the offense. Towns creates nothing for any of his teammates when he doesn’t have the ball.

The reason why the Wolves are good has way more to do with Ant than it does Towns. Towns has literally put up the same numbers for like 5 straight years. It’s not like he just upped his production. Ant plays defense. The pirate plays defense. Ant can break down defenses. Ant pushes the ball like crazy and gets the tempo up. The fact that the media chose KAT over Ant doesn’t mean shit to me. He is a winner and KAT is a loser. And he isn’t worth $40 million a year. He just isn’t. If I had to chooses between over paying Jak by 3 million and overpaying KAT by 20 million then I’m gonna choose Jak.

Jak also doesn’t whine about touches. He isn’t a reason why a top 5 playoff performer left the team in Jimmy Butler. Jak won’t get a coach fired 5 times. KAT thinks of himself as a guard now and just shoots jumpers ever since he won the 3 point contest. The dude also had a 4 point playoff performance not too long ago. KAT has talent but he doesn’t have the right attitude. Next year this wolves team will miss the playoffs unless Ant to shoot better by next year.

Now Vale is better than Poeltl. The Pels have a playoff team next year with a healthy Zion.

[KingKev]

Including timvp. Posted an article about how it was a mistake, iirc.
timvp just put that deal at the higher end of where he saw reasonable value at the time.

[SAGirl]

His max on an extension is 4yrs 50ish this offseason.
Then, yea I agree with Chinook, he's not signing that.

His situation is really interesting, and definitely influences what the Spurs do. I think even if he's not traded on draft night, the Spurs have to consider the possibility he leaves next season as an UFA, so drafting a center, and one that promises to be a quality one is a real possibility. Frankly not having rumors of them interviewing and working out Duren and Williams actually makes it likely they are looking at them intently.

Two things to consider here, they like the younger guys as of late, because of their higher potential which makes sense. As good as Williams is now, Duren at 18, may even be growing still (those growth plates!). Him keeping the interest secret and keeping mum on workouts is already a good sign of character right? Brown singing him praises. Do they risk him? He won't be there at 20. If they want him (or Williams) they have to take him at 9.

[PhantomDashCam]

Context again is important when discussing Poeltl and his contract extension (at the time).

1. Spurs had two ball dominant, ISO, mid-range pieces that made the likelihood of Poeltl’s impact suboptimal.

2. You could make the case that Poeltl’s ascendancy led to Aldridge’s decline in minutes, then value leading to a buyout rather than any useful trade.

3. He’s good enough to keep the team competitive but perhaps not elevate them above that. A running theme with the franchise for the last 3 years.

[SAGirl]

As a franchise player or a basketball player skills wise, Towns is far above Poeltl. But for our team I would rather have Poeltl than Towns. There’s a number of reasons for it. The first is attitude. Poeltl isn’t a malcontent at all and is no longer a lazy POS. Pop got that coached out of him by not playing him or starting him. It humbled him to a degree. You can’t do that with Towns. He would whine and then ask for a trade and demand to be treated differently bc he’s a #1 pick. It’s why the Wolves have been shitty with him, it’s why they brought in KG his last year to try and mold him when he was young and show him what he needed. It’s why they brought in Jimmy Butler. The whole franchise knows that Towns doesn’t put any effort into half of the floor. It’s not that he’s a bad defender or slow or incapable of it, he flat out refuses to do it.

What Towns does significantly better than Poeltl is score the basketball. He posts better and has a much much better shot. He has worked his tail off in that aspect of his game. There’s zero comparison here between the two. Poeltl has so many flaws offensively that it’s ridiculous. BUT he has learned something extremely important and id argue that if Towns would do this one thing then the Wolves would be a better team

Poeltl creates space for others like nobody else’s business. When his man clogs the paint, Poeltl will literally grab them and shove them out of the way to create space for DJ or whoever. The refs will call it maybe once a game but it changes the whole flow of the offense. Towns creates nothing for any of his teammates when he doesn’t have the ball.

The reason why the Wolves are good has way more to do with Ant than it does Towns. Towns has literally put up the same numbers for like 5 straight years. It’s not like he just upped his production. Ant plays defense. The pirate plays defense. Ant can break down defenses. Ant pushes the ball like crazy and gets the tempo up. The fact that the media chose KAT over Ant doesn’t mean shit to me. He is a winner and KAT is a loser. And he isn’t worth $40 million a year. He just isn’t. If I had to chooses between over paying Jak by 3 million and overpaying KAT by 20 million then I’m gonna choose Jak.

Jak also doesn’t whine about touches. He isn’t a reason why a top 5 playoff performer left the team in Jimmy Butler. Jak won’t get a coach fired 5 times. KAT thinks of himself as a guard now and just shoots jumpers ever since he won the 3 point contest. The dude also had a 4 point playoff performance not too long ago. KAT has talent but he doesn’t have the right attitude. Next year this wolves team will miss the playoffs unless Ant to shoot better by next year.

Now Vale is better than Poeltl. The Pels have a playoff team next year with a healthy Zion.

I appreciate engaging with you KobesAquiles, you are kind of a fun and colorful personality. This is a good discussion, but in the interest of staying on topic I'll say, we launched in this lengthy sidebar discussion when you went and said that Jakob is top 10 in the league and that only Jokic is above him in the Western conference. I disagreed and we went from there. I think Jakob is a good player and I appreciate him, but going that far was a homer take. There are better centers out there. We have not even discussed Ayton, which I kept out of the conversation bc it could launch us both in an even longer "diatribe" and I don't have interest on that.

To keep on track, Jakob is due a significant raise. The Spurs ceiling with him as one of their top players is capped at out of the playoffs. You should take what you can get for him now because he could just as well leave in UFA, and if he stays he may even stop being seen as high value for the Spurs as he is widely considered to be now. Like Derrick White, he is a good player, I am not hating on him, but Derrick wasn't what the Spurs needed and the Spurs ceiling with him was capped. When the Spurs saw an opportunity they grabbed it. They possibly are looking to do the same with Jakob and haven't seen a trade they like yet. It's possible a trade surfaces on draft night, which means the Spurs draft a center, which is more on point here. I am open to Jakob trades, I think he's valuable, but not irreplaceable and it's possible a version of the Spurs that is more competitive has moved on from him, same as they moved on from Derrick.

[tim_duncan_fan]

^Right. Can't be scared to change things to get better just because you want to maintain a plateau that feels comfortable, but really isn't.

[objective]

People have talked about a Poeltl for 13&15 swap, but what about a deal around Poeltl +25 for something like PJ Washington and 15? I think that deal works trade wise after the season turns over for the bump in Washington's salary.

He's not great, he started less than half his games this past year but still played about 27 minutes a game. Kind of a tweener who's looking to get paid. Probably an easy starter at the 4 for San Antonio, a decent three point shooter but not a great player with stuff like PER.

But a Locked on Hornets podcast last month talked about I think this Twitter thread and other positive Twitter thread about his defense being liked by PJ. LoH seemed to be high on his defense as well. Not too many good videos on YouTube for game footage, but thousands of videos about him and woman related drama.

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[objective]

PJ against the Spurs:

1501212980691845127

[SAGirl]

I think TD 21 has mentioned that trade before as one of the possibilities, while drafting Williams. ^ Thanks for the scouting. The trade sounds interesting.

PhantomDashCam watches a fair amount of Hornets so Id be interesting to see his opinion.

[KobesAchilles]

I always felt like the Hornets should trade their 13 & 15 picks for Ayton. Give him the max and ship out what’s his face. That guard who used to play for the Celtics. Man my memory sucks.

The Spurs are in an interesting spot bc we don’t need 3 more rookies on the team. I would argue that’s the last thing that we need. If we had 3 top 10 picks then sure you keep 3 rookies but that’s not the case. We are already super young and we will just be uncomfortably young. There will basically be zero basketball IQ on our team. I wonder what the Nets are going to do too. Bc Poeltl solves their problems as well. I don’t think Washington wants him. Poeltl is really only suited for a team like the Nets or Lakers or even the Clips but of the 3 only the Nets have any picks.

But ideally we don’t draft a center this year. We have no real need to and tbh we don’t have a good track record of developing centers who have no idea how to play the game and every center in this draft has no idea how to play the game. I’d rather develop 3 wings

[RC_Drunkford]

People have talked about a Poeltl for 13&15 swap, but what about a deal around Poeltl +25 for something like PJ Washington and 15? I think that deal works trade wise after the season turns over for the bump in Washington's salary.

He's not great, he started less than half his games this past year but still played about 27 minutes a game. Kind of a tweener who's looking to get paid. Probably an easy starter at the 4 for San Antonio, a decent three point shooter but not a great player with stuff like PER.

But a Locked on Hornets podcast last month talked about I think this Twitter thread and other positive Twitter thread about his defense being liked by PJ. LoH seemed to be high on his defense as well. Not too many good videos on YouTube for game footage, but thousands of videos about him and woman related drama.

1522615450269540352


I'm not really high on him either, but he'd obviously be the starting 4 from day 1 on the Spurs. Would be a decent trade if they can't get any better options at PF

[objective]

I think TD 21 has mentioned that trade before as one of the possibilities, while drafting Duren. ^ Thanks for the scouting. The trade sounds interesting.

PhantomDashCam watches a fair amount of Hornets so Id be interesting to see his opinion.

I'm sure people have posted it before, just slipped past me. Could be my proposed deal is an overpay. I'll have to check out the previous discussions

[tbdog]

The podcast scout I listened to was high on duren, putting him at 5. Not going 5, but rather the 5th best.

[rjv]

Wrong. He'll be almost 28 when his next contract kicks in and is a high floor/low ceiling type, who lacks versatility (not a vertical spacer, terrible free throw shooter, mostly a drop/up to the level p-n-r defender).

Williams is a similar archetype, only he can do the first two things and is 6 years younger. Doesn't mean he'll necessarily be as good or better, but I like his chances of at least being close and if they can get Washington Jr. as well, they'd at least have a credible stopgap four instead of reaching on a non shooter like Sochan who can't play alongside a rim runner.

note to self: people tend to ignore parenthetical content.

[SAGirl]

I always felt like the Hornets should trade their 13 & 15 picks for Ayton. Give him the max and ship out what’s his face. That guard who used to play for the Celtics. Man my memory sucks.

The Spurs are in an interesting spot bc we don’t need 3 more rookies on the team. I would argue that’s the last thing that we need. If we had 3 top 10 picks then sure you keep 3 rookies but that’s not the case. We are already super young and we will just be uncomfortably young. There will basically be zero basketball IQ on our team. I wonder what the Nets are going to do too. Bc Poeltl solves their problems as well. I don’t think Washington wants him. Poeltl is really only suited for a team like the Nets or Lakers or even the Clips but of the 3 only the Nets have any picks.

But ideally we don’t draft a center this year. We have no real need to and tbh we don’t have a good track record of developing centers who have no idea how to play the game and every center in this draft has no idea how to play the game. I’d rather develop 3 wings

The Spurs have recently been taking fliers/gambles on very low ceiling bigs is their problem. They spent a couple of years trying to develop Metu, even going so far as to give him guaranteed money when he was a very low 2nd round pick and that is not traditional. They obviously drafted Samanic and gave him 2 seasons before they couldn't stand his lack of development. They spent a couple of years developing Drew Eubanks before they gave him a regular NBA deal, and prioritized seeing what they really had in him over playing Young and others before shipping him out.

They signed an undrafted Landale to a guaranteed deal to see if they struck bargain bin gold. They signed Zach Collins coming off 2 years without playing and are trying to rehab his career to see if he can develop more still because he's still young and it could be argued he lost a couple of seasons of development to injury.

So I think assuming the Spurs are not spending resources on trying to develop a rotation big is false. They are not necessarily looking to replace Jakob, I'll grant you that, but they have tried and are trying to develop different unproven or questionable bigs. I'd argue they have spent a lot of resources on bigs with questionable and marginal talent, and that perhaps they should shop and spend resources on someone with a better projection. That's one of the reasons you pick up several tickets for the draft, to get better prospects.

Edit... to add, you didn't say they aren't spending resources on it, but that they don't have a good recod. Part of their bad record is bad prospects, low ceiling and budget or high risk projects.

[SAGirl]

The podcast scout I listened to was high on duren, putting him at 5. Not going 5, but rather the 5th best.
I have seen some draftniks junkies also rate him on the second tier of prospects going as high as 5 in terms of their projections because they think he has the potential to be an all star talent.

Sometimes I look at past drafts and reflect on how guys going later turn out to be better than the top picks. Sometimes it's not evident, but other times, its someone that has one perceived flaw that on hindsight shouldn't have let them fall as low as they did. Duren is that kind of a high floor/high ceiling project. No player is guaranteed to hit their high ceiling, but at least the high floor means you will end up with a player, a real rotation player, and I think he will be at least that. Then because of his youth, who knows what he is yet to add to his game? He could end up being better than someone like Chet... In 5 years from now everyone may wonder how Chet went above him for example. It's not consensus now, but it could be in hindsight. This person had Jabari Smith as tier 1, and then 4 guys in tier 2, and those players in tier 2 had all star potential. Chet, Banchero, Ivey, Duren were there.

It just made me think about Duren. He's also kept his workouts secret. If someone does like him a lot, it's possible he's not even available at 9. The referenced tweet, not anyone known or anything, but I do wish to give credit instead of stealing ideas from somebody.

1539069035349827584

[rjv]

Edit... to add, you didn't say they aren't spending resources on it, but that they don't have a good recod. Part of their bad record is bad prospects, low ceiling and budget or high risk projects.

to be fair, a lot of teams do this and i have no problem with the spurs doing so, unless it involves a valuable pick. taking a chance on eubanks and landale is no big deal but the luka gamble was costly.

[KingKev]

^ a big part of this is PATFO have had their heads up their own asses when it comes to the 4/5 position these last 5 years. Vassell, DDR and Keldon aren’t power forwards.

Eubanks and Landale aren’t NBA players.

Dewayne Dedmon, Baynes and Boban actually discovered a bit of a 3ball once they left.

So I’d argue we are horrid at managing the 4/5 the last 5 years.

[AFBlue]

I have seen some draftniks junkies also rate him on the second tier of prospects going as high as 5 in terms of their projections because they think he has the potential to be an all star talent.

Sometimes I look at past drafts and reflect on how guys going later turn out to be better than the top picks. Sometimes it's not evident, but other times, its someone that has one perceived flaw that on hindsight shouldn't have let them fall as low as they did. Duren is that kind of a high floor/high ceiling project. No player is guaranteed to hit their high ceiling, but at least the high floor means you will end up with a player, a real rotation player, and I think he will be at least that. Then because of his youth, who knows what he is yet to add to his game? He could end up being better than someone like Chet... In 5 years from now everyone may wonder how Chet went above him for example. It's not consensus now, but it could be in hindsight. This person had Jabari Smith as tier 1, and then 4 guys in tier 2, and those players in tier 2 had all star potential. Chet, Banchero, Ivey, Duren were there.

It just made me think about Duren. He's also kept his workouts secret. If someone does like him a lot, it's possible he's not even available at 9. The referenced tweet, not anyone known or anything, but I do wish to give credit instead of stealing ideas from somebody.

1539069035349827584

I like the assessment of Duren as high floor/high ceiling. Unfortunately for his floor, its value (rim running, athletic big) is diminished in today's NBA. That said, I think there's a decent likelihood he outperforms his floor and develops some semblance of an offensive game. Other than Sochan (similar prospect with better positional versatility), Duren seems like the best realistic get at #9.

[SAGirl]

Duren is rising in some mainstream mocks. I guess he's underrated no more. Perhaps not Spurs bound after all.
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[John B]

Duren is rising in some mainstream mocks. I guess he's underrated no more. Perhaps not Spurs bound after all.
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That would be great. But I doubt Keegan falls to 9. He’s the only one I’d consider passing on Davis (besides the the top 3 of course).

[AFBlue]

That's a prospect ranking, not a mock draft. I think he's being properly ranked as a Top-5 talent, but his position and team for are what's going to make him potentially available at #9 on draft night.

[SAGirl]

That's a prospect ranking, not a mock draft. I think he's being properly ranked as a Top-5 talent, but his position and team for are what's going to make him potentially available at #9 on draft night.
Thanks for that clarification. I missed it in a quick glance.

[JPB]

Edit... to add, you didn't say they aren't spending resources on it, but that they don't have a good recod. Part of their bad record is bad prospects, low ceiling and budget or high risk projects.

This, all the bigs spurs tried to develop these past few years weren't even close to be lottery material, most of them second rounders. We don't really have a clear track record of what they could do with a prospect like Duran or Sochan.

[SAGirl]

1536381614816743426
Enthralled by this small snippet of hustle plays from Duren/the bit about playing with a high motor.

I think I like Duren a lot now. I am even changing favorites, because honestly... he will be a good player.

[AFBlue]

Thanks for that clarification. I missed it in a quick glance.

:tu Still may be gone, because the talent and upside warrant it.

[John B]

Again I would not be frustrated with Duren at 9. It’d be a pleasant change to be our big dunking than getting dunked on :lol

[objective]

The podcast scout I listened to was high on duren, putting him at 5. Not going 5, but rather the 5th best.

I've burned through several podcasts, and players will be all over the map depending on who you listen to and when.

I listened to Game Theory, Ford's Big board but not Barlowe's yet because his speaking voice puts me to sleep, Draft Daq, Draft Deeper, No Ceilings, Upside Swings, Chucking Darts, Box and One, Tag the Roll, and on top of that several team oriented podcasts that have good draft coverage like Indy Cornrows or Locked on Hawks etc etc etc

Listen to enough of them and I usually only pick up interesting stats or things to look for when watching film, because they all have scouting issues I think.

[Ocotillo]

Someone on the NBA radio today was saying Miles Bridges wants the max as an RFA. (On Give and Go with Rick Kamala and Antonio McD). It was the Charlotte beat reporter. Anyway, he admitted Jordan's reluctance to give the max to players when asked about Charlotte being reluctant to give him the max. The caveat was Lamelo is boys with Bridges so it would not be likely they would let him walk. Opportunity there for the Spurs?

[John B]

Someone on the NBA radio today was saying Miles Bridges wants the max as an RFA. (On Give and Go with Rick Kamala and Antonio McD). It was the Charlotte beat reporter. Anyway, he admitted Jordan's reluctance to give the max to players when asked about Charlotte being reluctant to give him the max. The caveat was Lamelo is boys with Bridges so it would not be likely they would let him walk. Opportunity there for the Spurs?

I think they take Poeltl and McD for Hayward and 13. We get a chance to draft Sochan/Duren/Williams to pair with Davis.

[Mr. Body]

I think they take Poeltl and McD for Hayward and 13. We get a chance to draft Sochan/Duren/Williams to pair with Davis.

So we're giving them the center they covet AND take two picks' worth of awful salary AND give them a good outside shooter for a pick?

[John B]

So we're giving them the center they covet AND take two picks' worth of awful salary AND give them a good outside shooter for a pick?

You’re right. It’s for both picks 13 and 15 and Hayward. They get Poeltl and McD. Poeltl is worth a FRP, and unloading Hayward another FRP. We pick Davis at 9, Sochan at 13 and Williams 15. Or swap 15, 20 and 25 to get to Duren. Damn

[lmbebo]

You’re right. It’s for both picks 13 and 15 and Hayward. They get Poeltl and McD. Poeltl is worth a FRP, and unloading Hayward another FRP. We pick Davis at 9, Sochan at 13 and Williams 15. Or swap 15, 20 and 25 to get to Duren. Damn

Lots of rookies ...

[John B]

Lots of rookies ...

It’s still the same 3 rookies plus stash.

Davis, Sochan and Duren. Procida or Kamagate as international stash.

DJ, Davis, Hayward, Sochan, Duren. You think that competes?

I think Spurs’ strengthening coaches will help Hayward. His contract is 2 years, in time for Murray and Keldon to get paid.

[slick'81]

You’re right. It’s for both picks 13 and 15 and Hayward. They get Poeltl and McD. Poeltl is worth a FRP, and unloading Hayward another FRP. We pick Davis at 9, Sochan at 13 and Williams 15. Or swap 15, 20 and 25 to get to Duren. Damn

competing for the lottery

[John B]

competing for the lottery

If the consolation is Wembanyama, why not? :bobo

[R. DeMurre]

Gotta say, I'm watching a bunch of Memphis games & highlights and Josh Minott looks to be a hair taller than Jalen Duren, and Emoni Bates looks to be about the same height, maybe a hair shorter. Both Bates and Minott are listed at 6'8". In the game against Cincinnati, center Abdul Ado is clearly taller than Duren, and he's listed at 6'11". Duren is sometimes listed as 6'10" and sometimes as 6'11" but didn't participate in the draft combine, so there's no true measure of his actual height available as far as I know. By the way, Duren struggled against Ado, going 3 for 10. If Duren is actually the same height as Jeremy Sochan, I think that would be a big deal. Sochan's already the more switchable defender and better passer with more steals, fewer turnovers, and fewer fouls. If the Spurs are going to choose between these two non-shooters, I'd rather have the all around more versatile Sochan, whose appeal (to me at least) is he could defend combo forwards and maybe give you 15 mpg as a small ball center too.