You all gonna save Ayton from Suns?

[JMarkJohns]

They don’t know what the fuck to do with him.

C’mon and help the big fella fulfill his upside.

Read where Pops likes him.

Also, Fuck Sarver…

Have fun tonight. Take Dalen Terry at 20 or 25 please. Thanks

[baseline bum]

They don’t know what the fuck to do with him.

C’mon and help the big fella fulfill his upside.

Read where Pops likes him.

Also, Fuck Sarver…

Have fun tonight. Take Dalen Terry at 20 or 25 please. Thanks

Just knew Sarver would fuck up the great thing you guys had going last year. Sorry, we had a shitty owner in the 90s (Red McCombs) whose cheapness cost the Spurs a chance to team Robinson / Barkley / Elliott / Strickland together before you guys traded for Charles. Thank god Holt ended up very solid when it came to paying for a winner.

[JMarkJohns]

Just knew Sarver would fuck up the great thing you guys had going last year. Sorry, we had a shitty owner in the 90s (Red McCombs) whose cheapness cost the Spurs a chance to team Robinson / Barkley / Elliott / Strickland together before you guys traded for Charles. Thank god Holt ended up very solid when it came to paying for a winner.

Aye, yo… Barkley and Robinson and Elliott is fucking dynamite! Damn!

Sarver just can’t help Sarvering.

Maybe paying him the Max Extension last year salvages the relationship, but I legit mean I want to see a team prioritize Ayton. Dude shot like 60% on his 10-16 foot hook-floater and spot-up jumper. He shoots 50% on his Baseline spin-away (not really a fadeaway). But his usage and dynamic touches are shit. He never touches the ball within 5-feet except off dumpoffs, lobs, or putbacks.

Dude is 23. He’s not even in prime.

Please, Pops… please Spurs! I’m begging you! Save that man. Develop him. He’s more than a fucking roll/garbage man on offense.

[Mugen]

Can't believe that cheap POS Sarver survived that "Sterling" type hit piece from earlier in the year tbh. I hate Suns fans but I wouldn't wish that owner on any fanbase tbh. :lol

[JMarkJohns]

Can't believe that cheap POS Sarver survived that "Sterling" type hit piece from earlier in the year tbh. I hate Suns fans but I wouldn't wish that owner on any fanbase tbh. :lol

Man. You ain’t even know.

That team sat him down and told him to buy in and do all the little things and contribute to winning. They required he sacrifice his touches and in-game development. So he buys in, sacrifices 20% of his overall usage, defends at a damn near elite level, competes to set Suns single season RPG total, shoots well from all over and flashes 65% or better touch at the rim on more than dunks, saves their ass in the playoffs a few times, then asks for Market Value and gets told Nah. Comes back this year, continues to buy in, improves his jumper and flashes hook and baseline jumper from 10-16 foot mid/high post positioning, saves their ass in the first round, then gets scapegoated in Game 7 after Booker and Paul do shit for Game 6 and 7.

Fuck em.

Ayton isn’t perfect and he needs improvement, but he deserves his chance to be great that he never got once Suns got Paul and Paul made him Skilled DeAndre Jordan.

I ain’t even trolling.

Please. Dude’s a good kid and needs what y’all got. Him and Murray gonna own West in 3 years.

[MultiTroll]

then gets scapegoated in Game 7 after Booker and Paul do shit for Game 6 and 7.

Fuck em.

Ayton isn’t perfect and he needs improvement, but he deserves his chance to be great that he never got once Suns got Paul and Paul made him Skilled DeAndre Jordan.
This.
Casual Phan thinks Clitter Paul is all that.
He isn't.

Can't see how the Spurs can get Ayton w/o giving up Murray tho.

[dbestpro]

Detroit looked like the front runner to get Ayton but they drafted Duren. Maybe this opens the door for the Spurs?

[baseline bum]

This.
Casual Phan thinks Clitter Paul is all that.
He isn't.

Can't see how the Spurs can get Ayton w/o giving up Murray tho.

You think Sarver's cheap ass would match a max offer?

[pad300]

This.
Casual Phan thinks Clitter Paul is all that.
He isn't.

Can't see how the Spurs can get Ayton w/o giving up Murray tho.

By dropping a max in front of Ayton and watching Sarver cheap out?

[ducks]

I hope he comes to the spurs and dumps 50 on the suns

[baseline bum]

By dropping a max in front of Ayton and watching Sarver cheap out?

Maxing Ayton would get them somewhere around $10 million over the luxury tax. So not as absurdly high as I would have guessed an Ayton max deal would put them given the money they're paying CP0, but still enough that I wouldn't be very surprised if Sarver wouldn't pay. I mean this is the guy who traded away the Luol Deng pick to slash salary with a title contending team and then refused to pay Joe Johnson with a title contending team, so completely within normal behavior for him to cheap out on Ayton with a title contending team.

[MultiTroll]

You think Sarver's cheap ass would match a max offer?
Oh Ayton is a RFA?

Got it.

That also why sometimes in pro sports an opponent will offer some fat max knowing the existing team will pay more to match it.

In this case cheapie Sarver will let Ayton walk.
Interesting.
Aren't any of the money hog teams Lakers Warriors Nyets going for Ayton?

Is this where we see a Westbrook for Ayton sign and trade with Buss money under the table, blow and hookers going to Sarver to play ball?

[baseline bum]

Man. You ain’t even know.

That team sat him down and told him to buy in and do all the little things and contribute to winning. They required he sacrifice his touches and in-game development. So he buys in, sacrifices 20% of his overall usage, defends at a damn near elite level, competes to set Suns single season RPG total, shoots well from all over and flashes 65% or better touch at the rim on more than dunks, saves their ass in the playoffs a few times, then asks for Market Value and gets told Nah. Comes back this year, continues to buy in, improves his jumper and flashes hook and baseline jumper from 10-16 foot mid/high post positioning, saves their ass in the first round, then gets scapegoated in Game 7 after Booker and Paul do shit for Game 6 and 7.

Fuck em.

Ayton isn’t perfect and he needs improvement, but he deserves his chance to be great that he never got once Suns got Paul and Paul made him Skilled DeAndre Jordan.

I ain’t even trolling.

Please. Dude’s a good kid and needs what y’all got. Him and Murray gonna own West in 3 years.

Would you hesitate at all giving Ayton a 4 year, $131 million max contract?

[baseline bum]

Oh Ayton is a RFA?

Got it.

That also why sometimes in pro sports an opponent will offer some fat max knowing the existing team will pay more to match it.

In this case cheapie Sarver will let Ayton walk.
Interesting.
Aren't any of the money hog teams Lakers Warriors Nyets going for Ayton?

Is this where we see a Westbrook for Ayton sign and trade with Buss money under the table, blow and hookers going to Sarver to play ball?

An Ayton for Westbrook trade would put the Suns like $25 million into the luxury tax. Ain't no hookers and blow gonna be worth that.

[SAGirl]

I'd love to take him over from you, but Spurs are not interested in win now players apparently.

I'd be suprised if they were to make a real honest aggressive move to pry him away... Like I've been singing his virtues here...

I will be really excited to see the Spurs go after him. We shall see.

TBQH, if they don't make any kind of move for an honest costar for Murray they will need to trade him. That is how it is. So we shall see.

Thanks for stopping by. I really like Ayton as a centerpiece next to Murray.

[SPURt]

Man. You ain’t even know.

That team sat him down and told him to buy in and do all the little things and contribute to winning. They required he sacrifice his touches and in-game development. So he buys in, sacrifices 20% of his overall usage, defends at a damn near elite level, competes to set Suns single season RPG total, shoots well from all over and flashes 65% or better touch at the rim on more than dunks, saves their ass in the playoffs a few times, then asks for Market Value and gets told Nah. Comes back this year, continues to buy in, improves his jumper and flashes hook and baseline jumper from 10-16 foot mid/high post positioning, saves their ass in the first round, then gets scapegoated in Game 7 after Booker and Paul do shit for Game 6 and 7.

Fuck em.

Ayton isn’t perfect and he needs improvement, but he deserves his chance to be great that he never got once Suns got Paul and Paul made him Skilled DeAndre Jordan.

I ain’t even trolling.

Please. Dude’s a good kid and needs what y’all got. Him and Murray gonna own West in 3 years.
Had me at “Man.”

Ayton becoming a Spur would be the most spiteful move he could make. I dig it.

[Rubberducky]

Mathurin 3 picks before spurs picked 9th

Terry 2 picks before spurs picked 20th

Koloko 5 picks before spurs picked 38th

I'm 100% certain Spurs arents trading the 2nd rounder if he dropped to 38th ;_; we tried

[MultiTroll]

An Ayton for Westbrook trade would put the Suns like $25 million into the luxury tax. Ain't no hookers and blow gonna be worth that.
Kwame Brown for MVPau.
2002 Lakers Kings.

Don't underestimate how much money the Buss' and ABC-Disney-NBA have to offer as a bribe.

[JMarkJohns]

This.
Casual Phan thinks Clitter Paul is all that.
He isn't.

Can't see how the Spurs can get Ayton w/o giving up Murray tho.

I do. Sarver HATES Klutch. He swore off dealing with Klutch sports. Literally told Earl Watson to fire Klutch as his agent or he’d be fired (which he didn’t and he was).

Murray is a Klutch client.

This is rumor du jour, but one of the Twitter Insiders who has a good track record with Suns is strongly hinting Ayton to Spurs, Mikal/Filler and assets/pick from Spurs to Nets, Poeltl and Durant to Suns.

It doesn’t include Murray or Johnson. But I got zero idea how you all value assets like Vassell Sochan, 1sts for Ayton. To me it seems solid since keeping 2 best players, but that’s you all’s team so it’s why I’m asking.

BTW, I’m fucking done with sports. But I follow Ayton’s career as someone who scouted him as a prep and Admin’d AZ boards in college. I want to see him do well.

[JMarkJohns]

Would you hesitate at all giving Ayton a 4 year, $131 million max contract?

No. If we want to talk talk like old times about why I think so highly of Ayton, I’m happy to do it.

Short and easy answer is I would max him no second thoughts, if for no other reason, CAP is rising again in 2025 and his Max won’t be Max for too long.

But even from a talent, skills, impact scenario, he’s a 23-YO 7-0, 245 C who defends 1-5 in switches, hard hedges and retreats, plays drop coverage D, defends very well in low post, rebounds pretty well, is coachable, and can average 20 ppg in a system that hasn’t ever featured him as a star, despite shooting 40% or better from every 2-pt Zone, including 50-60% on multiple types of jumpers and lane shots, holds A-level Roll Gravity, is a very solid high screener, and has flashes under-utilized high-post passing skills and possibility of a perimeter shot.

Dude could do it all if featured and developed.

He’s not an All-Timer, but he could absolutely be All-NBA.

[JMarkJohns]

Maxing Ayton would get them somewhere around $10 million over the luxury tax. So not as absurdly high as I would have guessed an Ayton max deal would put them given the money they're paying CP0, but still enough that I wouldn't be very surprised if Sarver wouldn't pay. I mean this is the guy who traded away the Luol Deng pick to slash salary with a title contending team and then refused to pay Joe Johnson with a title contending team, so completely within normal behavior for him to cheap out on Ayton with a title contending team.

Here’s the thing. Sarver ain’t just cheap. He’s stupid absurd petty.

He decided a year or so ago that 22-YO Ayton wasn’t worth the Max during first half of Deandre’s Prime. Sarver doesn’t change his mind. He double downs.

Now, he may end up matching a Max offer, but I definitely think it’s just as likely he lets Ayton walk as match.

Sarver is so Petty he’d rather think himself strong by not budging than be proven wrong by paying more.

I truly believe it. He’s such a fucknugget.

[JMarkJohns]

Detroit looked like the front runner to get Ayton but they drafted Duren. Maybe this opens the door for the Spurs?

Prior to Grant being traded the long-standing rumor was Grant/Stewart/1st for Ayton.

Obviously that ain’t happening now.

Maybe Olynyk/Duren/1st is something the Suns considers, but I think that’s a real stretch.

My long assumption has always been Pacers, as Carlisle seems like a coach who would use him, the Pacers can offer Turner and Duarte which makes sense for Suns.

But I don’t give a shit about the return for Phoenix. I want Ayton to succeed.

[JMarkJohns]

Mathurin 3 picks before spurs picked 9th

Terry 2 picks before spurs picked 20th

Koloko 5 picks before spurs picked 38th

I'm 100% certain Spurs arents trading the 2nd rounder if he dropped to 38th ;_; we tried

Yeah, I saw all that. Haha surprised you all traded Chandler.

[JMarkJohns]

By dropping a max in front of Ayton and watching Sarver cheap out?

I do think Sarver’s Spurs Petty overrules his Ayton Petty and he matches if Ayton signs offer sheet with you all.

But I think if sign n trade is approached from jump, that Sarver would be open, especially if it facilitates that Durant rumor, which is probably bullshit, but who knows.

[CGD]

Sarver would be elated if Ayton did a max 2+1 right?

[TDMVPDPOY]

ayton is like those young bigs up for a payrise on their next contract... problem is todays league those type of big man play are extinct...why waste a max contract on a big who cant defend, rebound, spread the floor hit the open 18ft+ ....

you can probably fill that center spot with some cheap player whose happy to be employed

[JMarkJohns]

Sarver would be elated if Ayton did a max 2+1 right?

Not sure. There’s reports I sort of trust and reports that feel like propaganda.

Some of the propaganda related to the 2 Rookie Extension limit for a team. So if Booker and Ayton have theirs, and the Suns wanted to make a play to acquire another player in a rookie extension, Suns would be limited in their ability to acquire said player without including Booker or Ayton. At the time last year Tatum & Celtics looked headed towards mediocrity, and Tatum was on record as saying he wanted the Suns to draft him in 2017, so it was the rumor du jour.

The realistic is simply Sarver is cheap and wants to mitigate risk. Word is they offered a 3 year at MAX money, but this was never confirmed. Personally I thought Ayton should have taken a 2+1 (PO) deal to be a UFA sooner. That 2 years would have coincided with Paul’s likely window, and then he hits UFA at age 25, setting himself up for 2 more nice paydays.

But I understand pride and when MPJ is getting Max with a bad back, and Bam is getting a Max after a Finals run, you sort of expect the Market to determine rate and his rate was unquestioned Max Money for Max Years.

What is especially fucking hilarious is had the Suns signed Ayton to his Rookie Max Extension last year, they could simply trade him without Base Year Comp issues that his RFA will bring this offseason, which makes trading with Hard Capped clubs very difficult, and, just so happens that the Nets are a Hard Capped Team, so, Ayton for Durant (even with lots and lots of added talent and picks) is almost impossible within CAP constraints because only half of whatever a SnT deal is worth counts in the trade. So if Ayton’s year one is 30 million, it only counts as 15 in the trade, but counts 100% vs Nets cap, making matching salaries a motherfucker.

Serves their dumbasses right.

[JMarkJohns]

ayton is like those young bigs up for a payrise on their next contract... problem is todays league those type of big man play are extinct...why waste a max contract on a big who cant defend, rebound, spread the floor hit the open 18ft+ ....

you can probably fill that center spot with some cheap player whose happy to be employed

Ayton is 2nd to Gobert in Defensive Distance Covered, and is one of the best defensive Cs in the NBA, and defends a multitude of ways. He rebounds plenty well enough.

His defense and rebounding isn’t the concern.

[JMarkJohns]

Since I can’t edit and add:

And Ayton shoots over 45% from 15-20 feet on spot-up jumpers, and 42% overall from 16+

He’s still developing this, but given in small samplings he shot 36% from range last season, and shoots 76% from FT, he has the touch you’re looking for with just a few tweaks to timing, footwork, anticipation, and added familiarity of being a perimeter shooter.

More importantly, the 80% of his shots play to his strengths, where he shoots 80% 0-3, 59% 3-10, and 55% 10-16.

If you’re telling me this can’t be weaponized, then clearly you ain’t the one I’m looking to chat with any longer.

[Robz4000]

I'd do Poeltl, McDermott, and the Bulls' first for Ayton, but thats it tbh.

[MultiTroll]

I'd do Poeltl, McDermott, and the Bulls' first for Ayton, but thats it tbh.
Even cheapie Sarver would go for that. :lol

[CGD]

Not sure. There’s reports I sort of trust and reports that feel like propaganda.

Some of the propaganda related to the 2 Rookie Extension limit for a team. So if Booker and Ayton have theirs, and the Suns wanted to make a play to acquire another player in a rookie extension, Suns would be limited in their ability to acquire said player without including Booker or Ayton. At the time last year Tatum & Celtics looked headed towards mediocrity, and Tatum was on record as saying he wanted the Suns to draft him in 2017, so it was the rumor du jour.

The realistic is simply Sarver is cheap and wants to mitigate risk. Word is they offered a 3 year at MAX money, but this was never confirmed. Personally I thought Ayton should have taken a 2+1 (PO) deal to be a UFA sooner. That 2 years would have coincided with Paul’s likely window, and then he hits UFA at age 25, setting himself up for 2 more nice paydays.

But I understand pride and when MPJ is getting Max with a bad back, and Bam is getting a Max after a Finals run, you sort of expect the Market to determine rate and his rate was unquestioned Max Money for Max Years.

What is especially fucking hilarious is had the Suns signed Ayton to his Rookie Max Extension last year, they could simply trade him without Base Year Comp issues that his RFA will bring this offseason, which makes trading with Hard Capped clubs very difficult, and, just so happens that the Nets are a Hard Capped Team, so, Ayton for Durant (even with lots and lots of added talent and picks) is almost impossible within CAP constraints because only half of whatever a SnT deal is worth counts in the trade. So if Ayton’s year one is 30 million, it only counts as 15 in the trade, but counts 100% vs Nets cap, making matching salaries a motherfucker.

Serves their dumbasses right.

Insightful for us not close to the Suns situation.

As I’ve only come to appreciate recently, the base year compensation situation really fucks things up here for those looking for a deal. I suspect that Jakob Poeltl being expiring isn’t ideal at all for the Suns either, and unfortunately, as I understand it, we can extend and trade him to you all concurrently.

[JMarkJohns]

Even cheapie Sarver would go for that. :lol

Two white guys and a pick he can sell for cash, Sarver all in, for sure.

[JMarkJohns]

Insightful for us not close to the Suns situation.

As I’ve only come to appreciate recently, the base year compensation situation really fucks things up here for those looking for a deal. I suspect that Jakob Poeltl being expiring isn’t ideal at all for the Suns either, and unfortunately, as I understand it, we can extend and trade him to you all concurrently.

Realistically, I got nothing more for the thread. I hoped some might have heard more from Spurs end given the Pops quote saying he’d offer Ayton the Max (which I’m not even sure is true, but I want to believe).

[MultiTroll]

Two white guys and a pick he can sell for cash, Sarver all in, for sure.
FFS and Grandpa Pop and the Spurs are not all over this?

Is Poodle another of Pops Pets?

[Robz4000]

Realistically, I got nothing more for the thread. I hoped some might have heard more from Spurs end given the Pops quote saying he’d offer Ayton the Max (which I’m not even sure is true, but I want to believe).

It comes down to Monty Williams tbh. If he has bad things to say about Ayton, zero chance the Spurs are interested.

[CGD]

I'd do Poeltl, McDermott, and the Bulls' first for Ayton, but thats it tbh.

That or Richardson instead of Doug if he wanted to get off $$ sooner. I *think* that works with the base comp rule.

The other option is to send expiring (Romeo, Jock, Keita) to NYK for Nerlens and a FRP to help them open space for Brunson. Then use that NYK pick in addition (or instead of CHI pick).

[SAGirl]

Realistically, I got nothing more for the thread. I hoped some might have heard more from Spurs end given the Pops quote saying he’d offer Ayton the Max (which I’m not even sure is true, but I want to believe).
I think it’s more that the Spurs are really in this limbo where they want to be competitive but not really…

They don’t want to tank but stopped being in denial about the need to rebuild finally. Based on what they have done recently they aren’t interested in win now players. They have only signed average or below average guys to plug holes and give some support to their guys so they don’t look as haphazard as the truly tanking teams.

The Murray situation is interesting bc I think he needs a costar and the team will improve leading to him getting some recognition, as good players in good teams do, but OTOH many feel understandably that they are more than 1 piece away.

I think the Spurs can offer Jakob, a piece like McDermott or Richardson and the Chicago first. I am really not the best person for trade machine deals.

[JMarkJohns]

Honestly, I mostly think the dude who is saying most of this is full of shit, but he does have a track record of being connected, correct in predictions (though not all), and I definitely think Pops would be good for Ayton.

But, ultimately, I quit this shit. But I would be thrilled to see one of my former favorites land on his feet.

[JMarkJohns]

If you’re gonna bottom out for a few years, can you pleeeeeaaase bring in Ayton and develop him over those 3/4 years and then have a peak prime 26 YO C right when you’re ramping things up?

If I wasn’t dead inside I’d delight in seeing you all circle the drain, but I’d much rather get Ayton with Pops.

[Ice009]

What are the Durant rumours you mentioned earlier?

[CGD]

If you’re gonna bottom out for a few years, can you pleeeeeaaase bring in Ayton and develop him over those 3/4 years and then have a peak prime 26 YO C right when you’re ramping things up?

If I wasn’t dead inside I’d delight in seeing you all circle the drain, but I’d much rather get Ayton with Pops.

PHX management is in total drivers seat here, meanwhile we have no clue as outsides what strategy SAS management is pursuing: tank/rebuild or build around Murray. These are two vastly different futures, but only one makes sense for going after Ayton. I personally think throwing Ayton a max makes sense, but with all the Murray noise it’s hard to tell what the hell is going on, lol

[mo7888]

PHX management is in total drivers seat here, meanwhile we have no clue as outsides what strategy SAS management is pursuing: tank/rebuild or build around Murray. These are two vastly different futures, but only one makes sense for going after Ayton. I personally think throwing Ayton a max makes sense, but with all the Murray noise it’s hard to tell what the hell is going on, lol

I think it's fairly clear...there preference has been to build around DJ with a real allstar type (not an Ayton unless it's after we bring in a real #1) but that hasn't materialized. If we see a path over the next 24 hours to get that guy (Lavine maybe) we take it and if it's not there we move DJ for picks.

I think that's what they're doing.. I think that's the correct strategy too...

[MultiTroll]

I think it's fairly clear...there preference has been to build around DJ with a real allstar type (not an Ayton unless it's after we bring in a real #1) but that hasn't materialized. If we see a path over the next 24 hours to get that guy (Lavine maybe) we take it and if it's not there we move DJ for picks.

I think that's what they're doing.. I think that's the correct strategy too...
Levine is a "real" #1 but Ayton is not?

Regardless of what title is put on them, much rather build around Ayton and DJ then Levine and DJ.

[mo7888]

Levine is a "real" #1 but Ayton is not?

Regardless of what title is put on them, much rather build around Ayton and DJ then Levine and DJ.

Lavine may not be a true #1 (I'll admit that) but he's much better than Ayton. Lavine improves our ceiling and Ayton doesn't.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think it's fairly clear...there preference has been to build around DJ with a real allstar type (not an Ayton unless it's after we bring in a real #1) but that hasn't materialized. If we see a path over the next 24 hours to get that guy (Lavine maybe) we take it and if it's not there we move DJ for picks.

I think that's what they're doing.. I think that's the correct strategy too...

if the Spurs want to build around Dejounte they will sign Jalen Smith and take on bad contracts. There won‘t be any significant trade or FA signing

[mo7888]

if the Spurs want to build around Dejounte they will sign Jalen Smith and take on bad contracts. There won‘t be any significant trade or FA signing

I don't think that's a recipe for building anything... keeping DJ and taking on bad contracts is a recipe for being a 10th seed for the next few years and being capped out. If you're going to build around him you have to bring in a player that's better than he is. If you are unable to do that you're better off trading him.

I prefer to bring in the better player to pair with him but, I can't see a path to doing that unless Chicago dicks around with Lavine tomorrow.

[Mr. Body]

I don't know why y'all think throwing a max on Ayton is a good idea. Dude has some talent but it's in the wrong areas and he has big character questions about whether he wants to compete and play. I think y'all just want big splashes for some reason. Hate to see you at a casino.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think that's a recipe for building anything... keeping DJ and taking on bad contracts is a recipe for being a 10th seed for the next few years and being capped out. If you're going to build around him you have to bring in a player that's better than he is. If you are unable to do that you're better off trading him.

I prefer to bring in the better player to pair with him but, I can't see a path to doing that unless Chicago dicks around with Lavine tomorrow.

which is exactly why they will do that. The Spurs don’t pick a direction, they do the same thing over and over because they are penny pinching and held hostage by an 80-year old chasing his records.

[mo7888]

which is exactly why they will do that. The Spurs don’t pick a direction, they do the same thing over and over because they are penny pinching and held hostage by an 80-year old chasing his records.

Gotcha...well, I'm hoping you're wrong and I've got some some belief that they are about to pick a direction but, I have to admit, recent history is on your side here...and I can't sufficiently argue with a conclusion based on that history..

[MultiTroll]

Lavine may not be a true #1 (I'll admit that) but he's much better than Ayton. Lavine improves our ceiling and Ayton doesn't.
Team defense and rebounding way better with Ayton vs Levine.
Ayton stuck with cancers and muh touches CPO and Kardashian.

Levine will get injured again. Book it.

[JMarkJohns]

Man, y’all couldn’t simply max Ayton and now he’s gonna be on the Utah fucking Jazz.

I was willing to sell my soul to watch him on the Spurs.

But fuck if I’m willingly supporting Utah.

Damn

[Mr. Body]

Man, y’all couldn’t simply max Ayton and now he’s gonna be on the Utah fucking Jazz.

I was willing to sell my soul to watch him on the Spurs.

But fuck if I’m willingly supporting Utah.

Damn

Y'all couldn't max Ayton either. Lol.

[JMarkJohns]

Y'all couldn't max Ayton either. Lol.

We coulda, but cheapskate Sarver…

[venitian navigator]

Imho if DAY won't come here is just because of bad feedback from Monty... otherwise he has all the tools needed for being considered a strong first step on a rebuilding project... Young enough, skilled enough, not that terrible salary for a (possible) 5 year time period...

[JMarkJohns]

Imho if DAY won't come here is just because of bad feedback from Monty... otherwise he has all the tools needed for being considered a strong first step on a rebuilding project... Young enough, skilled enough, not that terrible salary for a (possible) 5 year time period...

Exactly. He’s 23. End of the 4-YO max will be 2 years after the new TV Deal, and age 27, smack dab middle of peak prime.

Dude shot 60% 3-10 feet, 50% 10-12 feet, 45% 13-20+ feet, 37% from range. Last two were on limited attempts, but he’s a 75% FT shooter. He has the form and the touch.

He shot over 50% on his baseline jumper, his mid-range floater, his baby hook, and his no-dribble elbow spot up.

He shoots 80% around the rim despite not being an excessive dunker and using lots of layups, or tip-hits.

He’s athletic enough to have a 35+ Vertical, and fluid and agile enough to defend the 2nd most court space in the league, switching onto big wings and guards at times.

He has competed for 10-11 rebounds per game.

And he does all this without fouling.

Give that man a coach and system that will feature him and let him try and fail and try and learn and try and succeed without looking over his shoulder and he’s gonna be a monster.

Look at his percentages and his usage.

And he did the percentages before Paul. Even before Rubio.

He’s legit. Suns are fucking morons for treating him like they did, but they don’t give a hit because they gonna get Durant (maybe).

[baseline bum]

Man, y’all couldn’t simply max Ayton and now he’s gonna be on the Utah fucking Jazz.

I was willing to sell my soul to watch him on the Spurs.

But fuck if I’m willingly supporting Utah.

Damn

We tanking

[XDT76]

As it drags on it becomes more likely for Ayton to stay with the Suns below Max contract. RFA seems to be working more against the players as the teams do not want uncertainty in waiting on RFA but rather sign UFA to ensure they do not end up left hanging.

[JMarkJohns]

We tanking

That’s even better. Ayton isn’t so good he’s gonna win you games next year. Committing to him for a few years probably causes losses more than wins.

But his upside is immense, and he never got that level of commitment from the Suns. Even in his rookie year it was widely known Igor was handcuffing him to maximize impact. His rookie usage was highest of career. He’s never had his development years.

[venitian navigator]

That’s even better. Ayton isn’t so good he’s gonna win you games next year. Committing to him for a few years probably causes losses more than wins.

But his upside is immense, and he never got that level of commitment from the Suns. Even in his rookie year it was widely known Igor was handcuffing him to maximize impact. His rookie usage was highest of career. He’s never had his development years.

That's my same wiew... Maybe we both are wrong but frankly it seems to me, barring Monty bad feedback, a perfect situation for improving also while losing (if not tanking...)

[John B]

Spurs are prioritizing picks right now, getting as much FRP’s from all these big deals that are looming. It’s bad timing but Spurs would’ve taken a chance any other year.

[Dverde]

Spurs are prioritizing picks right now, getting as much FRP’s from all these big deals that are looming. It’s bad timing but Spurs would’ve taken a chance any other year.


Ayton is a young #1 pick, I don’t see the need of avoiding potential All Stars in a rebuild. I would offer him the max just to bend over the Suns again. They’ll probably match it and lose their chance of getting KD :lol

[Payote75]

Signing Ayton is like drafting a number one or two pick. Spurs just being silly. Like the above poster said he would be in his prime if any of these blindfolded darts we throwing hit. I will say this 100 times I'd be nervous this isn't big market Philly or NY etc. Best be careful because if you don't rebuild it and quick and you get stuck I'm Sacramento king land or okc land Charlotte etc. Fans may not be as supportive and owners pockets may take a hit. Then they will say "well it's in the best interest to move the spurs as fan support has dwindled" so it will be fans fault lol

[DPG21920]

That’s even better. Ayton isn’t so good he’s gonna win you games next year. Committing to him for a few years probably causes losses more than wins.

But his upside is immense, and he never got that level of commitment from the Suns. Even in his rookie year it was widely known Igor was handcuffing him to maximize impact. His rookie usage was highest of career. He’s never had his development years.

I’ve seen this line of thought from a few people and it doesn’t make sense. Why would you pay someone 30M a year if they aren’t good enough to keep you from lottery? SA was not bad with DJ but not good enough for playoffs either. They want to avoid that. So why pay 30M for someone not good enough to elevate you?

[slick'81]

Dont want...tank on!

[ginobilized]

I'm fine w/out Ayton. Wish him luck in Utah.
He and Mitchell might be a good pairing.
Spurs are waiting to see where KD lands and get more picks by absorbing a hefty contract or two. Makes sense to me.

[RC_Drunkford]

makes no sense to sign Ayton if you're tanking for Wembanyama

[JMarkJohns]

I’ve seen this line of thought from a few people and it doesn’t make sense. Why would you pay someone 30M a year if they aren’t good enough to keep you from lottery? SA was not bad with DJ but not good enough for playoffs either. They want to avoid that. So why pay 30M for someone not good enough to elevate you?

Because he’s very good and needs to given freedom to make mistakes to expand his game. You do it because after 2 years or so, you’ll have a ridiculously good player on a sub-max deal because the new TV money will balloon the CAP. You’ll have multiple more years where you’ve ranked and surrounded a then-25/26 year old C, and will own Bird Rights on a player who almost never exists, let alone becomes available.

And you’ll curry a lot of favor by being the team that allowed him to develop. Again, he bent over for the Suns and did all the grunt work starting year 1. Off Ball Screens, Picks, Hard Roll, Offensive Rebounding, all the Defense in the league. Saw usage for down every year despite noticeable skills increase in types of shots, range, and touch.

You sign him because you need to hit a minimum salary threshold, and what better way than roll the dice on a player highly ranked since age 16 who has not disappointed when given the chance to grow. Just was drafted into the wrong system and acquired a ball-dominant PG who doesn’t do low post scoring via bigs.

[JMarkJohns]

makes no sense to sign Ayton if you're tanking for Wembanyama

You can play them together, even in modern NBA. And one would be guaranteed, while the other a gamble.

[daslicer]

Signing Ayton is like drafting a number one or two pick. Spurs just being silly. Like the above poster said he would be in his prime if any of these blindfolded darts we throwing hit. I will say this 100 times I'd be nervous this isn't big market Philly or NY etc. Best be careful because if you don't rebuild it and quick and you get stuck I'm Sacramento king land or okc land Charlotte etc. Fans may not be as supportive and owners pockets may take a hit. Then they will say "well it's in the best interest to move the spurs as fan support has dwindled" so it will be fans fault lol


I would like the Spurs to get Ayton but even if they don't and continue suck, I doubt the team is going to move. The Hornets have been mediocre for over 20 years now, but you don't see them ever leaving Charlotte. League will open up expansion into Seattle and Las Vegas within the next few years. With those 2 markets taken up I don't see any desirable markets left for a team to move to.

[RC_Drunkford]

You can play them together, even in modern NBA. And one would be guaranteed, while the other a gamble.

yeah but Ayton would win you games. I don't want them to win this season. They should try their best to go 0-82

[JMarkJohns]

yeah but Ayton would win you games. I don't want them to win this season. They should try their best to go 0-82

Ayton isn’t Hakeem. He isn’t single-handedly keeping you competitive in a year he’s experimenting with his offense by trying and failing and trying and learning. He’s almost a rookie in several offensive aspects because of how under-utilized they have been by Suns. Stick him on the low block and tell him “you must take 10 post shots.” Stick him on the elbows and tell him “I need to see 10 dribble drives or jab-step jumpers.” Use him in Pick N Roll and tell him he’s jacking up 5+ 3s a game.

Use him in unique ways guaranteed to have growing pains, but that can expand his game, and with the freedom to just do it no matter, I would bet within 2 years Ayton has, at the very least, a bag of post moves and legit elbow to dead on 3-point range at a good clip on large volume. Maybe the Elbow drives develop. Dribbling been his biggest issue, but some PnR with his jumper may have D in limbo enough he can get that first dribble in and with his stride and fluidity and touch, get him in the lane with a floater or baby hook or two-dribble lay-up/dunk and who knows what player you can unlock.

Seriously. I’ve watched every game just about since high school. That shit this man has flashed is crazy. Needs allowance to do it and the confidence to do it frequently.

Anyways. Whatever. Really hoped Pop would come throw. He’ll never be a Duncan, but a fairly good imitation isn’t out of the realm of possibility.

[Mr. Body]

Ayton isn’t Hakeem. He isn’t single-handedly keeping you competitive in a year he’s experimenting with his offense by trying and failing and trying and learning. He’s almost a rookie in several offensive aspects because of how under-utilized they have been by Suns. Stick him on the low block and tell him “you must take 10 post shots.” Stick him on the elbows and tell him “I need to see 10 dribble drives or jab-step jumpers.” Use him in Pick N Roll and tell him he’s jacking up 5+ 3s a game.

Use him in unique ways guaranteed to have growing pains, but that can expand his game, and with the freedom to just do it no matter, I would bet within 2 years Ayton has, at the very least, a bag of post moves and legit elbow to dead on 3-point range at a good clip on large volume. Maybe the Elbow drives develop. Dribbling been his biggest issue, but some PnR with his jumper may have D in limbo enough he can get that first dribble in and with his stride and fluidity and touch, get him in the lane with a floater or baby hook or two-dribble lay-up/dunk and who knows what player you can unlock.

Seriously. I’ve watched every game just about since high school. That shit this man has flashed is crazy. Needs allowance to do it and the confidence to do it frequently.

Anyways. Whatever. Really hoped Pop would come throw. He’ll never be a Duncan, but a fairly good imitation isn’t out of the realm of possibility.

You're a lunatic.

[DPG21920]

Because he’s very good and needs to given freedom to make mistakes to expand his game. You do it because after 2 years or so, you’ll have a ridiculously good player on a sub-max deal because the new TV money will balloon the CAP. You’ll have multiple more years where you’ve ranked and surrounded a then-25/26 year old C, and will own Bird Rights on a player who almost never exists, let alone becomes available.

And you’ll curry a lot of favor by being the team that allowed him to develop. Again, he bent over for the Suns and did all the grunt work starting year 1. Off Ball Screens, Picks, Hard Roll, Offensive Rebounding, all the Defense in the league. Saw usage for down every year despite noticeable skills increase in types of shots, range, and touch.

You sign him because you need to hit a minimum salary threshold, and what better way than roll the dice on a player highly ranked since age 16 who has not disappointed when given the chance to grow. Just was drafted into the wrong system and acquired a ball-dominant PG who doesn’t do low post scoring via bigs.

You dont pay someone 30M that needs that much development still IMO…theres a reason its not just PHX passing on him…

[JMarkJohns]

You dont pay someone 30M that needs that much development still IMO…theres a reason its not just PHX passing on him…

Cool.

[JMarkJohns]

You're a lunatic.

You may be right.

I may be crazy.

But I just might be the lunatic you’re looking for.

Or not. Don’t give a shit.

Players get paid for upside all the time. But I’ll fuck the fuck off and let you all wank your dicks to lottery odds.

[venitian navigator]

You dont pay someone 30M that needs that much development still IMO…theres a reason its not just PHX passing on him…

The reason can be:a) character issues
Or b) him not being considered still an elite big man.
Obviously in case a) (expecially if supported by Monty's feedback) I would be the first to say we have to avoid him; but it's not that impossible the hypothesis b). We already had heard that samr/most gms share the same wiew of Sarver, alas consider Ayton a limited big man not worth the same amount of money (max or near the max) now paid to a small amount of big men. If that's the case, and Ayton playoff behavior can be considered effectively only the explosion of his frustration once in a lifetime for the choices and considerations made by his management and best teammates and the consequent choices of Monty, then I share the same idea of JMJ.

[RC_Drunkford]

Ayton isn’t Hakeem. He isn’t single-handedly keeping you competitive in a year he’s experimenting with his offense by trying and failing and trying and learning. He’s almost a rookie in several offensive aspects because of how under-utilized they have been by Suns. Stick him on the low block and tell him “you must take 10 post shots.” Stick him on the elbows and tell him “I need to see 10 dribble drives or jab-step jumpers.” Use him in Pick N Roll and tell him he’s jacking up 5+ 3s a game.

Use him in unique ways guaranteed to have growing pains, but that can expand his game, and with the freedom to just do it no matter, I would bet within 2 years Ayton has, at the very least, a bag of post moves and legit elbow to dead on 3-point range at a good clip on large volume. Maybe the Elbow drives develop. Dribbling been his biggest issue, but some PnR with his jumper may have D in limbo enough he can get that first dribble in and with his stride and fluidity and touch, get him in the lane with a floater or baby hook or two-dribble lay-up/dunk and who knows what player you can unlock.

Seriously. I’ve watched every game just about since high school. That shit this man has flashed is crazy. Needs allowance to do it and the confidence to do it frequently.

Anyways. Whatever. Really hoped Pop would come throw. He’ll never be a Duncan, but a fairly good imitation isn’t out of the realm of possibility.

I wanted him before we traded Murray. Now it really doesn't make sense. Also with the new TV deal kicking in soon, a max contract for Ayton gonna look quite ok long term when other players make 60 million per year

[JMarkJohns]

The reason can be:a) character issues
Or b) him not being considered still an elite big man.
Obviously in case a) (expecially if supported by Monty's feedback) I would be the first to say we have to avoid him; but it's not that impossible the hypothesis b). We already had heard that samr/most gms share the same wiew of Sarver, alas consider Ayton a limited big man not worth the same amount of money (max or near the max) now paid to a small amount of big men. If that's the case, and Ayton playoff behavior can be considered effectively only the explosion of his frustration once in a lifetime for the choices and considerations made by his management and best teammates and the consequent choices of Monty, then I share the same idea of JMJ.

There was never a complaint of his growth or development or commitment in 4 years until game 7’s blowup. It has never happened publicly before, and, simply put, it never occurred in any fashion that could be rumored in the media. In game 7 you had a player who averaged 18-9 on 60% FG refuse to go back into a 50-point deficit and risk injury in his final game before his RFA hit. He became the scapegoat, as if Booker and Paul being absolute no-shows in Games 6 and 7 aren’t the real culprit. Ayton put up 20+ and 9 rebounds on like 63% in game 6. More than the other two combined.

Was that selfish? Sure. But entirely understandable, especially since that team didn’t pay him when it had the chance. He has his money, he plays.

But, regardless, it was a decision made by a 23 year old. They sometimes make iffy decisions in cultures where they feel it them vs everybody. Suns didn’t have his back, so, he reciprocated when it was obvious no amount of effort was going to be enough.

Monty is a good dude, but he’s got his favorite (Paul) and neither of them prioritized Ayton. There would be entire second-halves of games where Ayton maybe touched the ball 3-5x after putting up 14-18 ppg in the first half.

I swear to god at times it felt like they were colluding to keep his value lower than Max.

[JMarkJohns]

I wanted him before we traded Murray. Now it really doesn't make sense. Also with the new TV deal kicking in soon, a max contract for Ayton gonna look quite ok long term when other players make 60 million per year

Again, I’d argue it makes just as much sense now because Ayton needs growth to be his best player, and the growth will come through a lot of trial and error for a year or 2.

And, yea, the new TV money gonna make Ayton’s deal look like 18-20 million now. No reason to fear giving him the Max since within a few years it won’t be the Max.

[CGD]

So what is going on with this guy? If Utah really wanted him they’d just tender an offer sheet now, no? I think they have space after the Gobert deal.

Danny relishes being the turd in the Punchbowl in these types of situations (KD trade here), so something else must being going on.

[venitian navigator]

It's already possible to tender the max offer to rfa? Or it's necessary to wait for July 7 (alas when it will be possible to effectively sign contracts) ?

[JMarkJohns]

So what is going on with this guy? If Utah really wanted him they’d just tender an offer sheet now, no? I think they have space after the Gobert deal.

Danny relishes being the turd in the Punchbowl in these types of situations (KD trade here), so something else must being going on.

Utah doesn’t have any space. They took on a lot on contracts in the Gobert trade.

The dude who is calling Durant to Phoenix says Monday is the day for fireworks.

So, guess we will see tomorrow.

[DPG21920]

Utah doesn’t have any space. They took on a lot on contracts in the Gobert trade.

The dude who is calling Durant to Phoenix says Monday is the day for fireworks.

So, guess we will see tomorrow.

If UTA really wanted him, I am sure they could reroute most of the money they took back from the deal to SA who has 39M in cap space if they were willing to surrender one of those firsts they received.

[DPG21920]

UTA Gets: Kessler + Minnys 25’ + Minnys 27’ + Minnys 29’

MIN Gets: Rudy

SA Gets: Beasley + Pat Bev + Vanderbilt + Bolmaro + Minnys 23’

I dont think that gets UTA all the way to space (have not looked) but if it does get them close enough to where they can land Ayton without any hassle? Maybe its worth it. But my gut says that would not get it done and they would not give up the pick to make that happen when they could just use the players to Sign and Trade with PHX vs giving up the pick

[JMarkJohns]

That might be the backup plan. Ainge may shit in the punch bowl, but I think if he can turn Rudy/Mitchell/Role Players into Ayton/Simmons/4+ limited protection 1sts, maybe a young prospect or two, then that is considered a significant win, even if the plan is to simply rehab Simmons and trade him at the deadline or next offseason.

Portland makes sense for Simmons, and maybe Simons is available come December?

[Rubberducky]

Glad to see your trying to keep your mind off UCLA/USC destroying the Pac12. I assume beardownwildcats is on fire atm.

[JMarkJohns]

Glad to see your trying to keep your mind off UCLA/USC destroying the Pac12. I assume beardownwildcats is on fire atm.

LMAO! We are in a weird space. Half the fanbase has spent enough time sniffing the stitches hems of the Elitist Cali Ivory Tower Vibe they ain’t down with a Big 12 merger, and want ACC. The other half are tired of the elitist Cali vibe and want to form a basketball priority super Big-Pac and invite San Diego State and UNLV, but this relies on Oregon hanging with Pac, which isn’t going to happen.

I’m actually all for a combine ACC minus Clemson and Florida State (BIG) and Miami (SEC), Big 12 minus West Virginia (SEC), and PAC minus Oregon, Washington and Stanford (BIG) to form the All Coast Conference. Throw them all in and shake out the top-24 teams.

Arizona
Arizona State
Baylor
Cal
Cincinnati
Colorado
Duke
Georgia Tech
Houston
Iowa State
Louisville
Kansas
North Carolina
NC State
Oklahoma State
San Diego State
Syracuse
Texas Christian
Texas Tech
UCF
UNLV
Virgina
Wake Forest

All Coastal Conference
Atlantic Division
-North-
Cincinnati
Louisville
Syracuse
Virginia
-South-
Duke
North Carolina
NC State
Wake Forest
-Gulf-
Georgia Tech
Houston
Texas Christian
UCF

Pacific Division
-Plains-
Baylor
Iowa State
Kansas
Oklahoma State
-Southwest-
Arizona
Arizona State
San Diego State
Texas Tech
-Mountain-
Cal (or Oregon State)
Colorado
UNLV
Utah

It has pretty good football, excellent basketball, very good baseball/softball, and will compete in Golf, Track N Field, etc.

It will also generate a lot of research academic funding.

Everybody brings something to the table and as the first actual super-conference with large markers and college brand hotbeds, I think it has staying power on TV deals.

It won’t compete in football, but if they can fully develop Houston and Cincinnati, and if Utah continues its rise, and if Baylor or TCU can be what they were a decade ago, they can have some competitive teams for a potential expanded playoffs with an undefeated season.

But this is a shit ton of work. ACC may be too snooty for this unless Stanford and Cal can 100% commit. If Stanford joins, then lockout UNLV.

[k830713]

Ayton, Sarić - Poeltl, Richardson ??

[AFBlue]

Is it possible he takes the QO from Phoenix and we throw max money at him next year when we're not trying to all-out tank?

[XDT76]

Short answer, No.

[Ignazzz]

Ayton, Sarić - Poeltl, Richardson ??

Snt and other players - illegal

[jbspurs]

Snt and other players - illegal


Looks like Spurs get Saric and 2 second rnd picks.😔

[JMarkJohns]

Fuck

[MultiTroll]

Is it possible he takes the QO from Phoenix and we throw max money at him next year when we're not trying to all-out tank?


Short answer, No.
When is Ayton tradeable, period?

[Thomas82]

When is Ayton tradeable, period?

Don't quote me on this, but I read January 15.

[JMarkJohns]

Don't quote me on this, but I read January 15.

January 15th is earliest he can be traded, but Ayton has a full no-trade through this calendar year, so he can veto any trade depending on if he likes the location or situation or coaching, and it’s a full calendar year until he can be traded to the Pacers.

Pacers with Haliburton and Spurs with Murray we’re my top-2 choices. Oh well. Stays on the Suns and we’ll see if anything changes or if they gonna try and pigeon-hole him into same role and if he buys it, or if he just wants out.

[Thomas82]

January 15th is earliest he can be traded, but Ayton has a full no-trade through this calendar year, so he can veto any trade depending on if he likes the location or situation or coaching, and it’s a full calendar year until he can be traded to the Pacers.

Pacers with Haliburton and Spurs with Murray we’re my top-2 choices. Oh well. Stays on the Suns and we’ll see if anything changes or if they gonna try and pigeon-hole him into same role and if he buys it, or if he just wants out.

Good info!!

[MultiTroll]

Why did some burn on Suns ownership when all along they knew they could match and save 46 million bucks?

[ducks]

Ayton will want good stats to get out and increase his value

[JMarkJohns]

Why did some burn on Suns ownership when all along they knew they could match and save 46 million bucks?

They saved their 5th season salary, but the yearly savings on the first 4 years is 2 million.

I know it’s not my money, but to alienate and piss off and break trust in the middle of a legit title run knowing you would be willing to pay Max in RFA is such a stupid shit Sarver move.

Also, having Ayton signed to Max Extension would have made it easier to trade him thanks to RFA Base-Year Comp rules, making it much harder to use him to get Durant.

Sarver can’t get out of his own way sometimes, even when it’s obvious.

[MultiTroll]

They saved their 5th season salary, but the yearly savings on the first 4 years is 2 million.
Got it.
Didn't the Suns also Supermax extend Bookerdashian under virtually the same circumstances?

[JMarkJohns]

Got it.
Didn't the Suns also Supermax extend Bookerdashian under virtually the same circumstances?

Booker is All-NBA 1st team. You can debate that if you’d like, which is every fans right, but he averaged 25-5-5 on much better than League Average percentages from everywhere on the floor. He improved his A/TO ratio and ran facilitation duties to like .800 win percentage when Paul was out.

That got him SuperMax worthy, considering he’s 25, that’s a safe gamble he’ll earn it. He’s improved efficiency often through our career, and his usage isn’t high, so you can easily argue if his usage ever jumped to Top-10, he’s average 30-7-7, albeit on likely lesser efficiencies.

Ayton has a history of improving yearly. And he’s been quite dynamic in several of those areas. But he hasn’t reached anywhere close to those heights, even though his seasonal stats are All-Star quality, he hasn’t been named (and this will still be difficult due to Jokic, Davis, Towns, Gobert, Jackson Jr still out West. Must be nice being Bam whose numbers and metrics are very similar and get All-Star out East.

The main issue with Ayton’s max is usage. He will never be a high usage player in Monty’s 0.5 system or with Paul as a PG. He’s super-utility. But Suns can’t commit to developing Ayton while trying to win as many games as they can. And Paul is so efficient in what he does, it gives Suns their best option.

The other is “Flexibility” as signing Ayton to his 5-year Designated Player Max alongside Booker’s would disallow them from adding another via trade without including Ayton or Booker since a team can only have 2 for some stupid fucking reason.

But the 4-year Max doesn’t add this roster limitation.

Anyways. Now I gotta hope he’s either traded to a better situation or Monty grows as a coach.

Ayton’s usage and minutes per have seen significant decline under Monty, despite his raw numbers and impact metrics improving.

[MultiTroll]

Booker is All-NBA 1st team. You can debate that if you’d like, which is every fans right, but he averaged 25-5-5 on much better than League Average percentages from everywhere on the floor. He improved his A/TO ratio and ran facilitation duties to like .800 win percentage when Paul was out.

Now I gotta hope he’s either traded to a better situation or Monty grows as a coach.

Ayton’s usage and minutes per have seen significant decline under Monty, despite his raw numbers and impact metrics improving.
Exactly. And Booker seems to have overcome the Kardashian Kurse.
Wth Monty lowered Aytons usage is beyond me. Pretty sure CPO had a bad influence on that decision.

Popovich Tree Monty means you're gonna have to keep doing some serious hoping. Short of having the leagues best player ala Timmy Duncs, Prime Kwa Leonard, Greek Freak etc these guys just cannot strategize in big game. Krrrist Ime was pathetic in 2022 with the 2-1 lead and ahead by 5 with 5 minutes left in Game 4.

Why couldn't the Suns have simply floated word to Aytons agent in mid season that they were gonna sign him after the match? Corrupt NBA pulls so much other bullshit with their rigged trades etc. This would seem like standard operating procedure.

Ayton seems legit happy now. Pretty sure anyone should be with 150 million. FFS it's unreal what pro sports dollar amounts have come to.

[JMarkJohns]

Sarver is such a cheap petty bitch, when he could have signed Ayton for 4/141 Max immediately following the season, he merely only QO’d him, and allowed the “market” to sign him to a lower 4/133 Max to save 8 million over 4 years on a 23-yo C who openly recruited the Suns to draft him, who has lived in Arizona since High School, and who you determined to match a max offer immediately.

So why risk any tension? Why fuel the bad blood and distrust through disrespect? Just give the kid the offer, say “hey, we know last offseason wasn’t ideal, and I know we had a few bumps in the playoffs, but you’re a HUGE part of our core, we value you, and we won’t let you escape. Here’s a 4-year Max that pays more to you than any other Max will this offseason.”

Nope.

“Go get some team to sign you to it, OBO…”

Sarver is such a fucking tool.

[exstatic]

No surprise from the team that didn’t pick up Jalen Smith’s year 3 option. Penny ante operation.

[Ice009]

Sarver is such a cheap petty bitch, when he could have signed Ayton for 4/141 Max immediately following the season, he merely only QO’d him, and allowed the “market” to sign him to a lower 4/133 Max to save 8 million over 4 years on a 23-yo C who openly recruited the Suns to draft him, who has lived in Arizona since High School, and who you determined to match a max offer immediately.

So why risk any tension? Why fuel the bad blood and distrust through disrespect? Just give the kid the offer, say “hey, we know last offseason wasn’t ideal, and I know we had a few bumps in the playoffs, but you’re a HUGE part of our core, we value you, and we won’t let you escape. Here’s a 4-year Max that pays more to you than any other Max will this offseason.”

Nope.

“Go get some team to sign you to it, OBO…”

Sarver is such a fucking tool.

I thought Ayton could get a lot more money if the Suns signed him? I thought the difference is a lot bigger than 4/141 Vs 4/133. How does it work between resigning with your own team or with another team? How are the raises and years calculated? Since he wasn't an unrestricted free agent, does that make a big difference between what the Suns can offer compared to another team?

[JMarkJohns]

I thought Ayton could get a lot more money if the Suns signed him? I thought the difference is a lot bigger than 4/141 Vs 4/133. How does it work between resigning with your own team or with another team? How are the raises and years calculated? Since he wasn't an unrestricted free agent, does that make a big difference between what the Suns can offer compared to another team?

If the Suns signed him to the 5 year Designated Max last offseason, it was like 5/177+

31
33
35
37.5
40

But they refused for the reasons I stated above (Sarver is a piece of shit/Flexability of DRM contracts).

They floated a rumor they talked to Ayton about the 4/140 max last offseason, but Ayton’s camp declined, which is bullshit because Ayton’s agent knew it was still the most anyone could offer due to 8% increases, not 5% increases.

The Suns didn’t offer it then, instead floating stories Sarver wasn’t certain Ayton was a max player. So Ayton had his best statistical season in his lowest MPG of his career and hits the offseason and again, isn’t offered the 4/140 Max, and is met with similar Sarver/Suns aren’t sure Ayton is a Max player. Ayton finds a team who says he is, Suns match the Max contract within 2 minutes of receiving the official offer sheet.

Sarver introduced distrust and animosity to a team coming off a Finals because of money. Like a fucking chump.

[RonMexico]

Sarver is such a cheap petty bitch, when he could have signed Ayton for 4/141 Max immediately following the season, he merely only QO’d him, and allowed the “market” to sign him to a lower 4/133 Max to save 8 million over 4 years on a 23-yo C who openly recruited the Suns to draft him, who has lived in Arizona since High School, and who you determined to match a max offer immediately.

So why risk any tension? Why fuel the bad blood and distrust through disrespect? Just give the kid the offer, say “hey, we know last offseason wasn’t ideal, and I know we had a few bumps in the playoffs, but you’re a HUGE part of our core, we value you, and we won’t let you escape. Here’s a 4-year Max that pays more to you than any other Max will this offseason.”

Nope.

“Go get some team to sign you to it, OBO…”

Sarver is such a fucking tool.

Facts

Stern would have the balls to Sterling him

No surprise that Suns struggled in postseason as soon as Lil Robby S brought his a-hole face back courtside

[Ice009]

If the Suns signed him to the 5 year Designated Max last offseason, it was like 5/177+

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But they refused for the reasons I stated above (Sarver is a piece of shit/Flexability of DRM contracts).

They floated a rumor they talked to Ayton about the 4/140 max last offseason, but Ayton’s camp declined, which is bullshit because Ayton’s agent knew it was still the most anyone could offer due to 8% increases, not 5% increases.

The Suns didn’t offer it then, instead floating stories Sarver wasn’t certain Ayton was a max player. So Ayton had his best statistical season in his lowest MPG of his career and hits the offseason and again, isn’t offered the 4/140 Max, and is met with similar Sarver/Suns aren’t sure Ayton is a Max player. Ayton finds a team who says he is, Suns match the Max contract within 2 minutes of receiving the official offer sheet.

Sarver introduced distrust and animosity to a team coming off a Finals because of money. Like a fucking chump.

Ahh right, so another team such as Indiana can only offer 5% increases so that is where the difference comes from. I also didn't know the Suns could have given him 5 years, so they just didn't think he was worth it and/or wanted to offer anything like that. They were definitely being very cheap. Having said that, I'd be happy with the current contract he's on, but yeah, the Suns have some mending of the fences to do with the way they treated him.

By the way, even though I disliked the Suns during the 2000's due to being rivals, I would've liked to have seen you guys ring last season compared to anyone not named Milwaukee. I still really do not like Chris Paul (pretty much hate the guy due to the way he acted when the Spurs used to play against him in our contending years), but anyway, I wish you well this upcoming season.

[JMarkJohns]

Ahh right, so another team such as Indiana can only offer 5% increases so that is where the difference comes from. I also didn't know the Suns could have given him 5 years, so they just didn't think he was worth it and/or wanted to offer anything like that. They were definitely being very cheap. Having said that, I'd be happy with the current contract he's on, but yeah, the Suns have some mending of the fences to do with the way they treated him.

By the way, even though I disliked the Suns during the 2000's due to being rivals, I would've liked to have seen you guys ring last season compared to anyone not named Milwaukee. I still really do not like Chris Paul (pretty much hate the guy due to the way he acted when the Spurs used to play against him in our contending years), but anyway, I wish you well this upcoming season.

Cool of you to say. Monty nice guy’d and allowed Bud to bully the refs into calling Bucks-slanted games for Giannis and it was more than the Suns could handle. They still had chances and Bucks simply were better, but Suns played just well enough to get beat when things got physical. Ayton couldn’t defend vertically, and Mikal was getting bent my a more physical Middleton or Jrue. Was such a weird time to see them up 2-0 and up after 1 in game 3, and up big in game 4, and then just fold like nothing mattered.

[Ice009]

Cool of you to say. Monty nice guy’d and allowed Bud to bully the refs into calling Bucks-slanted games for Giannis and it was more than the Suns could handle. They still had chances and Bucks simply were better, but Suns played just well enough to get beat when things got physical. Ayton couldn’t defend vertically, and Mikal was getting bent my a more physical Middleton or Jrue. Was such a weird time to see them up 2-0 and up after 1 in game 3, and up big in game 4, and then just fold like nothing mattered.

If I look at it from the Suns side of the fence, you guys really could have won against the Spurs (Johnson was injured in 2005 & the suspensions in 2007 - there's no guarantee you would have won, but those two scenarios could have made a big difference), then also last year being up in the series, plus this year I thought you guys had a great chance and it just all went bad. I really didn't want Goldenstate, Miami, Boston, or any of those teams to win, but again, just didn't work out. Hopefully the Suns have better playoffs next season and a bit more luck.

Back to Ayton, do you think the relationship between himself, the team and the front office can be mended? I'd imagine the owners would be the harder one, then you got the coach, and then his teammates who might not be happy with him from the last game of the playoffs. I feel it's not going to be an ideal situation to start from for his return.

[JMarkJohns]

Ayton got real cryptic saying “I see now it’s all a business” which doesn’t feel like something you say if you trust people.

It feels like something you say after being stabbed in the back and betrayed complete with broken promises and having to prove worth rather than be valued.

So, jury is still out on mended relationships. Honestly, I don’t personally, but then, I’m a vengeful person and have walked away and never looked back after employment situations took me for granted.

[exstatic]

Facts

Stern would have the balls to Sterling him

No surprise that Suns struggled in postseason as soon as Lil Robby S brought his a-hole face back courtside

Stern Sterlinged Sterling because he was a racist POS, not because he mismanaged his team. He had been doing that for decades.

[JMarkJohns]

Stern Sterlinged Sterling because he was a racist POS, not because he mismanaged his team. He had been doing that for decades.

Pretty sure it was Silver that got Sterling thrown out, too.

Silver is conducting an investigation into Sarver, but I don’t hold out any hope.

For what it’s worth, Sarver’s son is super petty on Twitter blocking random critical Suns fans with both his and Suns official account. So, if a sale isn’t forced, Suns probably stuck with shit ownership for a long time.

[RonMexico]

Pretty sure it was Silver that got Sterling thrown out, too.

Silver is conducting an investigation into Sarver, but I don’t hold out any hope.

For what it’s worth, Sarver’s son is super petty on Twitter blocking random critical Suns fans with both his and Suns official account. So, if a sale isn’t forced, Suns probably stuck with shit ownership for a long time.

Same reason I call Fertitta "Cajun Sarver"