Spurs Select F Jeremy Sochan with the 9th Pick in the 2022 NBA Draft

[John B]

2022 is turning to be a very deep class and Spurs picked Sochan at 9th is becoming a big disappointment. I keep saying, sure but we wouldn’t have gotten Wemby. But damn, J-Dubs, Tari, Duren, Kessler would all be great fit.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Since we're obviously aiming to be a contender, let's see the SF/PF role player situation on contending rosters. When I say contending, I refer to teams that were build to compete, even if they failed.
Players on rookie contracts not included and players making more than $25M not included. Shooting percentages from this season.

Dort: ~$17M a year for 2 more seasons, elite defender and 41% 3pt shooter.
Kenrich Williams: ~$7M for 2 more seasons, just 16mpg, 38% 3pt.

Hachimura: ~$18M for 2 more seasons, 40% 3pt shooter this season.
DFS: ~$15M the next season, good defender and 36% 3pt.

Derrick Jones Jr: ~$10M for 2 more seasons, 36% 3pt.
Batum: ~$5M next season, veteran, 43% 3pt.

McDaniels: near-identical extension to Devin's, overpaid even though he's an elite defender.
Naz Reid: will surely get 25 to 30 a year in the summer.

Brandon Clarke: ~$12M for the next 3 seasons, can't shoot, not worth the money.

Caleb Martin: ~$9M for the next 4 seasons, didn't play for Dallas, career average 35% 3pt.
Naji Marshall: ~$9M for the next 3 seasons, poor shooter.
PJ Washington: ~$14M next season, 38% 3pt shooter and the team's enforcer, would be great for us.

O'Neale: ~$10M for the next 3 seasons, 40% 3pt.

Oubre: ~$8M next season, 29% 3pt.

SlowMo: ~$9M for the next two seasons, non-shooter.
Highsmisth: ~$5M the next season. 38% 3pt.

Portis: ~$13M the next season, 36% 3pt.

Toppin: ~$15M for the next 3 seasons, 36% 3pt shooter.

Josh Hart: ~$20M for the next 3 seasons, 33% 3pt shooter.

Hauser: ~$12M for the next 3 seasons, 41% 3pt shooter.

Hunter: ~$23M for the next 2 seasons, 43% 3pt shooter.
Strus: ~$15M for the next 2 seasons, 38% 3pt shooter.
Okoro: ~$11M for the next 2 seasons, 37% 3pt shooter.



I know that just listing 3pt percentages without volume is superficial and obviously a lot of these players aren't great defenders, but what was the point I was trying to make?
That even though there are quite a few bad defenders in there, there are just a few non-shooters around the league at SF/PF positions playing limited roles for contenders.
Unless you're a high end starter even without a jumpshot, you're not getting on a contending roster.
The only exceptions are players like SlowMo who are great playmakers for their size (which Jeremy isn't), or athletic freaks who can play as backup bigs even though they're undersized (which Jeremy can't).
There are some more wings on minimum deals, but that's just circumstantial.

Also, have in mind that all of these contracts were signed before the new CBA, a lot of them wouldn't have been so generous with current rules.

TL;DR
Jeremy is absolutely not worth more than ~$10M a year with his current skillset and the lack of improvement in his offensive game means that offering him more based on his potential would be idiotic because it seems that he reached his ceiling early.

Nice information! Obviously most of us overestimated Sochan's next contract.

[Seventyniner]

TL;DR
Jeremy is absolutely not worth more than ~$10M a year with his current skillset and the lack of improvement in his offensive game means that offering him more based on his potential would be idiotic because it seems that he reached his ceiling early.

I don't think you're accounting for the facts that those contracts were signed when the cap was smaller, and that it will be even higher when Sochan's extension kicks in than it is now. Even a 5/80 extension for Sochan will be a smaller % of the cap than many of the players on your list, it would start at $11.4M adjusted back to this year's cap. Right in your $10-12M range.

Your $10M number for Sochan in 2026-2027 is equivalent to $8.27M this season and $8M for a contract signed in the summer of 2023.

[LeBowen]

I don't think you're accounting for the facts that those contracts were signed when the cap was smaller, and that it will be even higher when Sochan's extension kicks in than it is now. Even a 5/80 extension for Sochan will be a smaller % of the cap than many of the players on your list, it would start at $11.4M adjusted back to this year's cap. Right in your $10-12M range.

Your $10M number for Sochan in 2026-2027 is equivalent to $8.27M this season and $8M for a contract signed in the summer of 2023.

The cap was smaller, but as I said the new CBA rules are way more punishing when you hit the luxury and even though the cap will rise, role player contracts won't in most cases.
Cap is projected to rise by ~$15M per year, but when you have two max contracts on the roster, most of those $15M go towards their contract scaling.

To end this discussion, I respect everyone's opinion, but I just don't see why would the Spurs overpay such an offensively limited player when he hasn't shown any major improvements in his offensive game.
You don't make adjustments to help role players. Just think of all the situations when he was just sitting in the corner and opponents effectively played 5v4 defense. Even had a couple wide open clutch shots because we had nowhere else to go.
There's just no valid argument for Spurs to offer him more than $10M a year this summer. Either let him play for his contract or let him go if there's interest elsewhere and they're willing to send an asset our way.

[Seventyniner]

The cap was smaller, but as I said the new CBA rules are way more punishing when you hit the luxury and even though the cap will rise, role player contracts won't in most cases.
Cap is projected to rise by ~$15M per year, but when you have two max contracts on the roster, most of those $15M go towards their contract scaling.

To end this discussion, I respect everyone's opinion, but I just don't see why would the Spurs overpay such an offensively limited player when he hasn't shown any major improvements in his offensive game.
You don't make adjustments to help role players. Just think of all the situations when he was just sitting in the corner and opponents effectively played 5v4 defense. Even had a couple wide open clutch shots because we had nowhere else to go.
There's just no valid argument for Spurs to offer him more than $10M a year this summer. Either let him play for his contract or let him go if there's interest elsewhere and they're willing to send an asset our way.

With the cap rising 10% per year but the maximum annual raises allowed in a contract at 8%, every contract is a decreasing contract in cap % terms. That could change if the cap stops going up 10% per year though.

I totally agree that overpaying Sochan would be a bad idea. We just disagree on the numbers. For clarity, when you say $10M do you mean that as the average or starting salary? And would you prefer a 5th year?

[LeBowen]

For clarity, when you say $10M do you mean that as the average or starting salary? And would you prefer a 5th year?

$10M as a starting salary, I don't think he'd accept a 5th year if he thinks he can improve.
From his perspective, I think he should try and earn himself a better extension if he believes in his abilities.

[Pauleta14]

It's funny how you're all acting as if you didn't know our FO and he wasn't going to be overpaid if he extends this summer... :lol

15m would be the floor unfortunately.

Edit/ Best case scenario PATFO let him prove himself next season, but they'll never let him go as if it'd mean accepting they failed in his development.

[Guru of Nothing]

2022 is turning to be a very deep class and Spurs picked Sochan at 9th is becoming a big disappointment. I keep saying, sure but we wouldn’t have gotten Wemby. But damn, J-Dubs, Tari, Duren, Kessler would all be great fit.

It hurts watching Buzelis play and hit shots, too.

[rascal]

2022 is turning to be a very deep class and Spurs picked Sochan at 9th is becoming a big disappointment. I keep saying, sure but we wouldn’t have gotten Wemby. But damn, J-Dubs, Tari, Duren, Kessler would all be great fit.

Most at Spurstalk wanted Sochan including yourself. Go back to the brginning of this thread and see the excitement with the Sochan pick. I remember Sochan winning the poll who this site wanted with the pick.

You guys got who you wanted.

[exstatic]

It hurts watching Buzelis play and hit shots, too.

Why? Would you rather have him than Fox? Because drafting him means no Minny unprotected 20131 FRP, the best asset in the Fox trade.

[The Truth #6]

They could still have gotten Fox, it just would have been a different FRP that we'd have to include. It's not all or none. I liked Buz, but I'm not necessarily advocating we should have done things differently but we obviously could have done things differently.

[John B]

Most at Spurstalk wanted Sochan including yourself. Go back to the brginning of this thread and see the excitement with the Sochan pick. I remember Sochan winning the poll who this site wanted with the pick.

You guys got who you wanted.

Guilty as charged. But his reluctance to shoot, rim-running just to stop at the key to pass, inability to pass in traffic. We hoped that he's athletic enough to learn from the job. Which is actually the problem, because there has not been a clear definition of his job description. He was tossed from playing to PG to now backing Center.

[exstatic]

They could still have gotten Fox, it just would have been a different FRP that we'd have to include. It's not all or none. I liked Buz, but I'm not necessarily advocating we should have done things differently but we obviously could have done things differently.

I find ‘what if’ to be a fools errand. We trade Jakob Poeltl for a top 6 protected FRP in what is acknowledged as a crap draft. We flipped that pick as the main asset to get Fox, and I’m fine with that, not looking back.

I also have an inherent disdain for the products of the Ignite team. Most of them were abject failures, and their successes are guys like Jalen Green, more or less a supercharged version of Lonnie. The best thing the NBA has done in the last 5 years is shutting down that shit show. There was no development going on,just a paycheck, and marking time until the draft,

[Guru of Nothing]

Why? Would you rather have him than Fox? Because drafting him means no Minny unprotected 20131 FRP, the best asset in the Fox trade.


I would rather have Fox than Buzelis and I would rather have Fox and Buzelis.

[scott]

I think I was the head cheerleader for Buzelis (even at #4 honestly), but I'm not loosing any sleep over it. Happy with Castle of course, and I don't think Buzelis would have gotten the opportunities needed as a second rookie on this team (for right or wrong).

Glad Matas is making my talent evaluation skills look nice, but don't look back in anger.

[spurraider21]

I think I was the head cheerleader for Buzelis (even at #4 honestly), but I'm not loosing any sleep over it. Happy with Castle of course, and I don't think Buzelis would have gotten the opportunities needed as a second rookie on this team (for right or wrong).

Glad Matas is making my talent evaluation skills look nice, but don't look back in anger.
its honestly wild just how bad the Ignite stink must have been. how was it so much worse than just going the typical college route?

[ambchang]

its honestly wild just how bad the Ignite stink must have been. how was it so much worse than just going the typical college route?

A lot of it is development in the formative years of a young player. The decline in fundamental skills development of the AAU over the last two decades has shifted a lot of the basic development of players to college and even nba teams.

Which is why I’m not overly sold on the spurs being a strong contender soon just because we have wemby, the team has lost its way in developing young talent.

[poopbox]

Most at Spurstalk wanted Sochan including yourself. Go back to the brginning of this thread and see the excitement with the Sochan pick. I remember Sochan winning the poll who this site wanted with the pick.

You guys got who you wanted.

I was somebody who was absolutely fine with picking Sochan, because I thought he would be jack of all trades master of none player and I thought he would be better defensively. Turns out he is not a jack of any trade and most of his positive looking defensive metrics are smoke and mirrors cause when you watch a game no player has a problem scoring over him or around him.

I also don't fully blame him cause I think playing him at point really derived him of honing his skills as a small ball 4. He hasn't really had time to develop what he is most suited to being good at and this is now year 4 and the team is ready to start being a playoff team now. Time has ran out.

[rascal]

I was somebody who was absolutely fine with picking Sochan, because I thought he would be jack of all trades master of none player and I thought he would be better defensively. Turns out he is not a jack of any trade and most of his positive looking defensive metrics are smoke and mirrors cause when you watch a game no player has a problem scoring over him or around him.

I also don't fully blame him cause I think playing him at point really derived him of honing his skills as a small ball 4. He hasn't really had time to develop what he is most suited to being good at and this is now year 4 and the team is ready to start being a playoff team now. Time has ran out.

Then you miscalculated how good he was going to be.

I was out on Sochan. I wanted Duren as I saw him as a better rebounder and better scoring/finishing near the basket. Sochan didn't look athletic enough to me and had poor shooting.

Sochan was gifted a starting role while not earning it and was given quality minutes because the Spurs didn't care about winning. The point guard experiment lasted only 18 games and he played some of his worst basketball after going back playing PF that year. It can't be used for an excuse for his slow development.

If he's too small for playing down low(center) and can't shoot well enough to play away from the basket then what's his value? Can Sochan even make/shoot any mid range shots?

[exstatic]

I would rather have Fox than Buzelis and I would rather have Fox and Buzelis.

I would rather have Fox,plus all of our remaining picks than Fox, Buzelis, and only one ATL pick.

[poopbox]

Then you miscalculated how good he was going to be.

I was out on Sochan. I wanted Duren as I saw him as a better rebounder and better scoring/finishing near the basket. Sochan didn't look athletic enough to me and had poor shooting.

Sochan was gifted a starting role while not earning it and was given quality minutes because the Spurs didn't care about winning. The point guard experiment lasted only 18 games and he played some of his worst basketball after going back playing PF that year. It can't be used for an excuse for his slow development.

If he's too small for playing down low(center) and can't shoot well enough to play away from the basket then what's his value? Can Sochan even make/shoot any mid range shots?

Meh, he played "point guard" in his rookie year to, as in he was the one bringing the ball up the floor and initiating the offense.

The problem with sochan is he is basically the same player in year 3 as he was in year 1

[Jordan Jackson]

It's funny how you're all acting as if you didn't know our FO and he wasn't going to be overpaid if he extends this summer... :lol

15m would be the floor unfortunately.

Edit/ Best case scenario PATFO let him prove himself next season, but they'll never let him go as if it'd mean accepting they failed in his development.

The Spurs call it “Development” but it’s “Sunk Cost Fallacy.” It’s anyone’s guess if they know the difference at this point.

Can he improve? Sure. But, he’s not dynamic enough to play wing position. The league is just too talented now. I think you can draft someone better and save money.

I’m telling, if they hang on to him, Wemby and Fox will have to carry him. Wemby is going to get a lot of bad basketball players paid well.

I know Sochan has fans - this is not meant as a put down. Just the way it looks to me right now.

[scott]

And now the E-N has dropped an article on Sochan: https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/spurs-putting-trust-jeremy-sochan-summer-good-20279782.php

Interesting that the entire Power of Friendship has gotten these puff pieces released today...

[Pauleta14]

The Spurs call it “Development” but it’s “Sunk Cost Fallacy.” It’s anyone’s guess if they know the difference at this point.

Can he improve? Sure. But, he’s not dynamic enough to play wing position. The league is just too talented now. I think you can draft someone better and save money.

I’m telling, if they hang on to him, Wemby and Fox will have to carry him. Wemby is going to get a lot of bad basketball players paid well.

I know Sochan has fans - this is not meant as a put down. Just the way it looks to me right now.

I can improve too, everybody can, it's never been an argument to me.

I was stunned (still am) by how low his floor was when I discovered him last season and always wondered (still do) how so many Spurs fans (supposedly having higher expectations in terms of bbiq considering the recent history) could like or even love him... It's head scratching tbh

At best he has a bright future with another system/role/need, but today's Spurs is probably the worst fit for him in the league with a starting Big that is so singular and requires high passing abilities and court awareness

[Dex]

Sochan is not worth priotizing.

He has not improved on any single NBA skill, other than being disruptive (on both offense and defense)

I can go out there and run around like a pin-ball to make things look crazy, but it doesn't mean I belong in the NBA.

He can't shoot. He can't rebound. He can't defend (again, he tries hard but is not reliable). And they went out of their way to teach him how to pass which went terribly.

If the Spurs need to give him a contract to make him a trade chip, fine.

But he isn't a vital part to our future, and I wouldn't mind if he was traded tomorrow.

[Chomag]

Sochan brings nothing special enough to warrant him a keeper and he can be easily replaced by dozens of other NBA players

[Mal]

Sochan is not worth priotizing.



He shouldnt, but literally draft lottery and this offseason sets this roster for next 2-3 years, before Wemby`s and Fox`s deals are taking 2/3 of cap space. So the Sochan`s next deal must fit with those two.
Same goes for Vasell and Keldon - do you keep them for 2-3 years or not, and who can replace them.

[Dex]

He shouldnt, but literally draft lottery and this offseason sets this roster for next 2-3 years, before Wemby`s and Fox`s deals are taking 2/3 of cap space. So the Sochan`s next deal must fit with those two.
Same goes for Vasell and Keldon - do you keep them for 2-3 years or not, and who can replace them.

All three of them are expendable, tbh.

Keldon probably has the best value, but I would be surprised to see other teams clamoring for any of them.

Spurs took a long shot with Sochan...and they missed. It's fine, it happens in the draft.

But don't double-down on a bad bet by giving him a shitty contract that no one wants. Just let him walk. At a certain point, you have to cut your losses.

He seems like a great guy, but he also isn't going to help us win a lot of basketball games.

[timtonymanu]

Let’s hope so, Dex.

The front office still seems to be on that philosophy where they hand out loyalty contracts to players that may not even deserve them. That should be less of a thing now that we have a solid big 3 core to build around. Sadly, I see them overpaying Sochan.

[stephen jackson]

I’m glad most fans here aren’t delusional sochan has not improved at all as well as never being available. I’m totally out on him. So yeah 12 mil to 15 mill for 4 years max and I’d be happy there anything over that we are overpaying drastically but knowing he spurs he’ll get a 4 yr140 contact

[mystargtr34]

The Spurs should look at Patrick Williams as to what can happen when you hand out 5/$90M for potential and ‘hope’ for guys with good physical tools but low skills, drive, work ethic etc.

Do we think Sochan is the type of guy that loves the game where he will put in the work to improve after getting a payday? I don’t think so. I would be ok with something between 4/$60M and 4/$70M an absolute max, anymore than that I’m letting him walk or trading.

[KobesAchilles]

The Spurs should look at Patrick Williams as to what can happen when you hand out 5/$90M for potential and ‘hope’ for guys with good physical tools but low skills, drive, work ethic etc.

Do we think Sochan is the type of guy that loves the game where he will put in the work to improve after getting a payday? I don’t think so. I would be ok with something between 4/$60M and 4/$70M an absolute max, anymore than that I’m letting him walk or trading.
Dude has shown zero improvement from day 1. Seriously he has the exact same counting stats as his rookie year. All he can do is dunk the ball offensively. It’s embarrassing that he is an NBA player tbh. Dude is a poor mans Ben Simmons. I doubt he’s on this team in 2027. He’s going the Lonnie Walker route tbh

[ambchang]

Sochan is not worth priotizing.

He has not improved on any single NBA skill, other than being disruptive (on both offense and defense)

I can go out there and run around like a pin-ball to make things look crazy, but it doesn't mean I belong in the NBA.

He can't shoot. He can't rebound. He can't defend (again, he tries hard but is not reliable). And they went out of their way to teach him how to pass which went terribly.

If the Spurs need to give him a contract to make him a trade chip, fine.

But he isn't a vital part to our future, and I wouldn't mind if he was traded tomorrow.

Sochan can’t do too many things but saying he can’t rebound and play defence is just asinine.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The Sochan hate in this forum is really nauseating.

Sochan is a bad shooter, yes. But he is a good rebounder, a very good perimeter defender and who efforts well as a big as well, sound as a cutter and screen setter and generally a plus while on the floor. He has improved his defense a lot to get within the 88th percentile (according to EPM), the same as someone like Toumani Camara who has been touted as one of the best defenders in the league. He is a proven 1-4 defender who offers possibly the best on ball defense for the Spurs outside of Wemby (who is already one of the all-time best defenders in the league).

If his shooting came around, Sochan would be an all-Star. But as good as he is now, he is a valuable role player for the Spurs. Someone like a Dorian Finney-Smith for the Lakers or Luguentz Dort for the Thunder. Now both Finney-Smith and Dort are much older and Sochan can be better when he gets to their age and to that extent, the Spurs should invest in him.

IMO, in terms of expendables, Keldon Johnson (no 3, no D, but hustle and bully-ball which works only against select opponents) is the first asset that should come to mind, if the Spurs are looking to upgrade on the wing (to get someone like Cam Johnson) or the blocks (John Collins). Vassell has also been disappointing and if the Spurs need to trade him to get Kevin Durant (too expensive and too moody for my liking) or say Derrick White (if the Celtics are desperate to get below their aprons), Vassell should be part of trade discussions, but short of getting strong All-Star upgrades, Vassell can still be persisted with to find out if he gels well with the Fox-Wemby-Castle-2025-Draft-Pick-core.

[Dex]

Sochan can’t do too many things but saying he can’t rebound and play defence is just asinine.

I was probably a little harsh.

His rebounding is fine. 9.3 Per 36 isn't anything to write home about, but he's the 2nd best rebounder on the team behind Wemby. The team, as a whole, seems to struggle in this department outside of Wemby who is 10-feet-tall.

The defense...I still don't see it. Again, he tries hard, but he also misses rotations or just gets himself into trouble in that regard. He is not a terrible defender, but I also don't miss him when he is not on the floor.

Again, good guy...team seems to love him. I just don't see him being a vital part of the future based upon the flaws in his game. If he were to get traded this summer, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[poopbox]

The Sochan hate in this forum is really nauseating.

Sochan is a bad shooter, yes. But he is a good rebounder, a very good perimeter defender and who efforts well as a big as well, sound as a cutter and screen setter and generally a plus while on the floor. He has improved his defense a lot to get within the 88th percentile (according to EPM), the same as someone like Toumani Camara who has been touted as one of the best defenders in the league. He is a proven 1-4 defender who offers possibly the best on ball defense for the Spurs outside of Wemby (who is already one of the all-time best defenders in the league).

If his shooting came around, Sochan would be an all-Star. But as good as he is now, he is a valuable role player for the Spurs. Someone like a Dorian Finney-Smith for the Lakers or Luguentz Dort for the Thunder. Now both Finney-Smith and Dort are much older and Sochan can be better when he gets to their age and to that extent, the Spurs should invest in him.

IMO, in terms of expendables, Keldon Johnson (no 3, no D, but hustle and bully-ball which works only against select opponents) is the first asset that should come to mind, if the Spurs are looking to upgrade on the wing (to get someone like Cam Johnson) or the blocks (John Collins). Vassell has also been disappointing and if the Spurs need to trade him to get Kevin Durant (too expensive and too moody for my liking) or say Derrick White (if the Celtics are desperate to get below their aprons), Vassell should be part of trade discussions, but short of getting strong All-Star upgrades, Vassell can still be persisted with to find out if he gels well with the Fox-Wemby-Castle-2025-Draft-Pick-core.

The problem with this line of thinking is if I ask you to show me one Sochan lineup without Victor in it that is even top 12 in the league defensively, you can't because Sochan trash ass aint never been in a good defensive lineup that doesn't have Victor in it since being drafted, unlike Camara, who has been in multiple above average defenses lineups for the blazers :lol

What podcast told you guys that Sochan was a good defender? He has legit been on some of the worst defenses lineups in the history of the spurs but you guys somehow take that fact and turn it into "Sochan is a great defender cause of some advanced stat that doesn't make much logical sense":lol

I'd give anything to trade this bum but unfornately looks like we are stuck with him cause every other team in the league other than the spurs and bulls are purging their non shooting tweener bigs and look at how sochan and pat williams of worked for both of those teams :lol

In order to explain away the awful team defense metrics with Sochan in non Victor lineups you have to believe that the 4 other players are bottom of the barrel terrible but sochan is somehow good and it's all their fault the team defense metrics are terrible and not at all Sochan fault. Ridiculous. :lol

[ambchang]

I was probably a little harsh.

His rebounding is fine. 9.3 Per 36 isn't anything to write home about, but he's the 2nd best rebounder on the team behind Wemby. The team, as a whole, seems to struggle in this department outside of Wemby who is 10-feet-tall.

The defense...I still don't see it. Again, he tries hard, but he also misses rotations or just gets himself into trouble in that regard. He is not a terrible defender, but I also don't miss him when he is not on the floor.

Again, good guy...team seems to love him. I just don't see him being a vital part of the future based upon the flaws in his game. If he were to get traded this summer, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

His offensive rebounding is quite strong statistically although I concede part of that is due to the opposition just leaving him wide open all the time so he can just sneak in for them.

He is a decent roll man and great cutter, and again, he’s left open for a reason.

The team in general lacks basic rebounding techniques which is a coaching issue more than anything. And quite surprising as those are just Jv level stuff.

Defensively he’s a very good perimeter one on one player who isn’t strong or long enough to be a high level post defender. But he can serve in a pinch. His rotations arent crisp but then there aren’t any system to speak of so I’m not even sure if there is a right rotation to begin with.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The problem with this line of thinking is if I ask you to show me one Sochan lineup without Victor in it that is even top 12 in the league defensively, you can't because Sochan trash ass aint never been in a good defensive lineup that doesn't have Victor in it since being drafted, unlike Camara, who has been in multiple above average defenses lineups for the blazers :lol

What podcast told you guys that Sochan was a good defender? He has legit been on some of the worst defenses lineups in the history of the spurs but you guys somehow take that fact and turn it into "Sochan is a great defender cause of some advanced stat that doesn't make much logical sense":lol

I'd give anything to trade this bum but unfornately looks like we are stuck with him cause every other team in the league other than the spurs and bulls are purging their non shooting tweener bigs and look at how sochan and pat williams of worked for both of those teams :lol

In order to explain away the awful team defense metrics with Sochan in non Victor lineups you have to believe that the 4 other players are bottom of the barrel terrible but sochan is somehow good and it's all their fault the team defense metrics are terrible and not at all Sochan fault. Ridiculous. :lol

By adding stupid emojis you won't make a coherent argument. You are indeed a poopbox.

Sochan in non-Victor lineups -

Lineup 1 - K. Johnson - D. Vassell - J. Champagnie - J. Sochan - S. Castle, Mins: 49; DefRtg: 102.7 NEtRtg: 18.4
Lineup 2 - C. Paul - K. Johnson - D. Vassell - J. Sochan - S. Castle, Min: 40; DefRtng: 97.8, NetRtg: 18.1

These are just two examples. The lineup ratings are poor only when Sochan shares space with Harrison Barnes and Keldon Johnson being played together. These two were our worst defenders this season. Even when Wemby plays with them, the lineup's defensive ratings are relatively bad. (According to EPM).

And go read up on EPM, if you want to graduate from being a moron. Its the gold standard in advanced statistics.

According to EPM, Sochan was our best defender after Wemby. Its a per minute and lineup adjusted statistic.

[ambchang]

The problem with this line of thinking is if I ask you to show me one Sochan lineup without Victor in it that is even top 12 in the league defensively, you can't because Sochan trash ass aint never been in a good defensive lineup that doesn't have Victor in it since being drafted, unlike Camara, who has been in multiple above average defenses lineups for the blazers :lol

What podcast told you guys that Sochan was a good defender? He has legit been on some of the worst defenses lineups in the history of the spurs but you guys somehow take that fact and turn it into "Sochan is a great defender cause of some advanced stat that doesn't make much logical sense":lol

I'd give anything to trade this bum but unfornately looks like we are stuck with him cause every other team in the league other than the spurs and bulls are purging their non shooting tweener bigs and look at how sochan and pat williams of worked for both of those teams :lol

In order to explain away the awful team defense metrics with Sochan in non Victor lineups you have to believe that the 4 other players are bottom of the barrel terrible but sochan is somehow good and it's all their fault the team defense metrics are terrible and not at all Sochan fault. Ridiculous. :lol

Wemby was on some of the worst defensive lineups as well. I’m not going to blame him.

And of lineups on the spurs with over 30mins, sochan is on and wemby is not on the 2nd 4th and 6th best defensive lineups (based on drating). Obviously wemby is on the 1st 3rd and 5th best defensive lineups.

[TD 21]

The biggest issue with him as a non shooting forward/big, is they don't even get the typical benefits of one, in terms of rim protection, defensive rebounding and post defense.

It's also tough to invest in a C who provides that because he can't play next to them, which means either has to be tethered to Wembanyama, making it difficult to get to five out lineups.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gq3nnc5XUAA5Qq0?format=png&name=900x900

[benefactor]

Get rid of him. It's time for all the dead weight and players we keep waiting on to become somebody to go

[Robz4000]

Get rid of him. It's time for all the dead weight and players we keep waiting on to become somebody to go

I'll give Sochan one more season imo. Eldon and Assell can go though.

[TimDunkem]

Ship all 3 of their asses out, tbh.

[Obstructed_View]

Any young player who won't show up to camp with a reliable three pointer has no place on this rotation. I guarantee Victor is hoisting up threes and listening to the feedback from that thing hanging on the wall.

[PhantomDashCam]

“The only way”. To have somebody take pictures of you, holding the form of a jumper, without a ball in sight…. :lol

[poopbox]

The good news is rather we draft Bailey or Harper it guarantees that either Sochan or Devin will spend more time in the chairs that Wesley and Branhim were in last year :lol

[dbestpro]

Bailey is too short and is fool's gold. Don't overthink it. Get Harper, and you'll have a player like Dwayne Wade.

[palangi]

Bailey is too short and is fool's gold. Don't overthink it. Get Harper, and you'll have a player like Dwayne Wade.
Is copper Flagg too short? Because they’re the same height and Bailey has more length

[rascal]

Harper is going to end up being the second best player behind Wemby on the Spurs.

Spurs better count their luck in getting him and not even think about trading him.

[ace3g]

Some glimpses of the new jumper in this vid:

DJr0cRVxsl6

[scottspurs]

Needs to start working on his game in silence and stop worrying about looking good on social media.

[spurraider21]

he's still a 21 year old kid, im not going to be mad about him being on social media :lol

its up to MATFO to begin drawing the line as far as how far the power of friendship can get you on this team

[KobesAchilles]

Pretty soon the young man is going to be playing for Manila. Gtfoh

[NASpurs]

Seems like we have a new IG Baller on our team.

[PhantomDashCam]

I’m still a big believer in Sochan. He was always that big, toolsy wing to me whose ultimate value would be determined
by how consistent a jump shooter he becomes.

He played through seemingly an injury plagued third season and his game can be frustrating to watch at times.
However, there’s an edge and toughness to him that no one else on the roster seems to possess.

Rooting for him to reach his ceiling.

[Ice009]

Have any of the current Spurs commented on getting the number 2 pick. I wonder if a lot of them are thinking their jobs are on the line (which they should be IMO)?

[dn0774]

Wish this guy were better at basketball, cool dude though. I’ll admit I’m a sucker, I just can’t quit him.

[DPG21920]

Im a big believer in Sochan still. That form is looking MUCH improved visually.

[ace3g]

Im a big believer in Sochan still. That form is looking MUCH improved visually.

Same here, one of the initial things that caught my eye in videos leading up to the draft was his back to basket turnaround midrange jumper. If he can get his jumper back, hopefully he can implement that part back into his game.

[DPG21920]

His rebounding was great, his connective passing is solid, his defense fits well. So much to like especially if that hitch is gone and he can hone in on a few bankable offensive moves (and hit respectable 3’s)

[Ice009]

I like him too as he does have toughness, but unfortunately he can't be such a bad shooter to just be left wide open all the time. You're going to have to pay him to keep him, and if he's not a guy you can play in crucial playoff games, can you really afford to resign him unless his shot doesn't at least become average?

[exstatic]

Needs to start working on his game in silence and stop worrying about looking good on social media.

Looks like basketball without borders in Manila. Perhaps you could cut the guy a break.

[Das Texan]

If this fucker can become a somewhat consistent shooter.....

[exstatic]

I like him too as he does have toughness, but unfortunately he can't be such a bad shooter to just be left wide open all the time. You're going to have to pay him to keep him, and if he's not a guy you can play in crucial playoff games, can you really afford to resign him unless his shot doesn't at least become average?

He’s under contract for next season. The ONLY thing about this off season is will they reach an agreement on an extension for next year. It’ll either be a bargain, or they’ll let him test RFA.

[Knoxxx]

Some glimpses of the new jumper in this vid:

DJr0cRVxsl6

It's the next Larry Bird!

[Knoxxx]

Needs to start working on his game in silence and stop worrying about looking good on social media.

STFU moron!

[Obstructed_View]

I absolutely love Jeremy. I'm a Baylor fan forever and was excited that the Spurs picked him. He's got loads of talent, and I know that because he's been skating by on it for three years. Last year was a massive disappointment to me.


I don't care if he's on social media, as long he's in the gym as well. If he doesn't show up with both a reliable, NBA-quality three pointer and something to prove, they need to move him for a conditional second or better. He's a terrific kid, but some guys aren't driven to be great or to win. Time to see if he's either.

EDIT: Lol I just realized I've probably posted this same thought a half dozen times when discussing Jeremy. Fuck, I'm old.

[ismael-robert]

Y'all want to get rid of Jeremy Kelvin and Devin but we need a bench keeping these guys would give the Spurs one of the best benches in the league

[Degoat]

Was thinking the other day how it gets tough for young lottery picks such as Sochan when your not a focal part of the team. When we drafted him his rookie season he showed a lot of positive signs than we got Wemby, Castle, now Harper and he’ll have to continue sacrificing touches and reps

[Knoxxx]

Im a big believer in Sochan still. That form is looking MUCH improved visually.

I am a Sochan fan, like his style. Wish BBIQ was not stagnating or worse. Love the hops and length at 6'-7", but I would think he would rebound better. Probably explained by his knack for hopping right into the wrong dude that can always pack his shit under the basket.

[Knoxxx]

Was thinking the other day how it gets tough for young lottery picks such as Sochan when your not a focal part of the team. When we drafted him his rookie season he showed a lot of positive signs than we got Wemby, Castle, now Harper and he’ll have to continue sacrificing touches and reps

Now it appears that if we count Barnes, Sochan, Vassell, Keldon, become the 6 through 8 options which is pretty crazy.

[Knoxxx]

Y'all want to get rid of Jeremy Kelvin and Devin but we need a bench keeping these guys would give the Spurs one of the best benches in the league

Yeah I know these fools are crazy. It's not that they don't want Devin or Keldon, at half price or less that is.

[spurraider21]

Was thinking the other day how it gets tough for young lottery picks such as Sochan when your not a focal part of the team. When we drafted him his rookie season he showed a lot of positive signs than we got Wemby, Castle, now Harper and he’ll have to continue sacrificing touches and reps
he had 2 years on castle, he will have 3 on harper. if he's not playing well enough to warrant having the ball more, thats on him. draymond didnt suffer because he played with superior talent. he took advantage of the players around him and carved himself a role

[scottspurs]

STFU moron!
No need for name calling. I like Jeremy. I’m just more of the Duncan type so I don’t understand it.

[Ice009]

Looks like basketball without borders in Manila. Perhaps you could cut the guy a break.

I just watched the video, and yeah, it was more than OK posting that. He was just showing his experience in Manila which looks like a nice one. It's not an IG baller thing at all.

[ambchang]

I still like sochan but last year was a major disappointment. He has to be able to be a passable shooter. I’m talking about 3 to 5 attempts a game on 32/34%. Nothing ground breaking, not the next steph, but enough to keep the defence honest. If he can do that hed be an extremely useful player. But it’s looking more and more likely it won’t happen.

[SpursFan86]

Count me in the camp of thinking Sochan can be a meaningful contributor to our future.

One of the issues is Sochan is the type of connective guy who could be much more effective when surrounded by competent shooters…which has not been the case for most/all of his career. If the Spurs fix their shooting (obviously Sochan needs to improve too) I think Sochan could look much more passable on offense.

Now I’m not saying I want to just automatically give him a massive extension. But I do envision him being a part of our future…more so than Keldon/Vassell/Branham/Wesley. That being said at this point the idea of him being some legit 3rd option like many of us hoped is starting to look less likely. Hoping he can be a really solid bench guy though.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm just glad he's already working on his game while the playoffs are still going on. It will be a long summer and he should improve as long as he puts the work in. I think he should really focus on knocking the 3 down from one specific spot, like the corners. Kinda like Bruce did back in the day.

[Knoxxx]

No need for name calling. I like Jeremy. I’m just more of the Duncan type so I don’t understand it.

Sorry but what would be the point of an unmoderated board without ever being "edgey"? But if it bothered you enough to reply back that was not my intent. I'm not a fan of social media either for myself, but these kids grew up with it and it's what they do.

[Knoxxx]

Count me in the camp of thinking Sochan can be a meaningful contributor to our future.

One of the issues is Sochan is the type of connective guy who could be much more effective when surrounded by competent shooters…which has not been the case for most/all of his career. If the Spurs fix their shooting (obviously Sochan needs to improve too) I think Sochan could look much more passable on offense.

Now I’m not saying I want to just automatically give him a massive extension. But I do envision him being a part of our future…more so than Keldon/Vassell/Branham/Wesley. That being said at this point the idea of him being some legit 3rd option like many of us hoped is starting to look less likely. Hoping he can be a really solid bench guy though.

He's so far down on the totem pole he's more like the 8th option on offense and even that's getting shaky. It does not even seem possible to play him with our best lineup of presumably Fox-Harper-Castle-Wemby. Because the best 3 PT shooter of that foursome is Wemby @ 35 % then it goes down from there.

So good for him to try and focus on the long ball, which is a big team need. I always thought he had a good shooting touch, but anyone with a release point that low needs to do something different. It is stupid to shoot with a low release point and basically shrink yourself into a foot shorter player. Anyone who doesn't have a release point high above their head needs to fix that.

I also wish he would work on getting his midrange lane game back, because it's there all day long and he just makes a bad pass or drives into traffic under the rim and gets capped. His confidence was really shot late in the season, worst decision making I've seen from him.

[ambchang]

There are a few things that I find problematic when evaluating Sochan, and he seemed to be rather polarizing.

Those who likes him (including yours truly) view him as a connective piece who competes hard, get up on people's faces on defence, and cut for easy buckets.

Those who hates him view him as dead weight who will ruin the cap because he clogs up the lane and has questionable decision making even though he is a lottery pick. Also doom and gloom scenarios of him making $20M a year.

I think the reality is somewhere in between.

I admit that his lack of outside shooting is a major issue that negatively impacts the Spurs on offence and limits the things that the team can do when he is on the court. That said, it's not like every single starter on every team can shooter. To compare young bigs to him, Jalen Duren can't shoot, at all! he attempted 6 3Pters his entire career, with 0 makes (all heaves I assume), and he makes the dumbest of mistakes on offence and defence, and yet I'd say he is a reasonable piece on a decent Detroit team, because he actually has a role to play.

Walker Kessler, worse shooter than Sochan, can't get to the rim, can't handle the ball, slow footed, great rim protector, and again a valuable role player no the lowly Jazz. Again, because he has a role.

Sochan doesn't have a role, never did. He just got thrown into situations and do whatever he can do get the job done. it is horrible for his development and I think is the primary reason he has been a disappointment this year.

People who expect him to be some offensive engine is being unrealistic, he won't be an offensive creator, and he doesn't have to be, he is a role player, and the job of the coaching staff is to find a role for him to fit in, on offence and defence. If there is no role, ship him out for someone who can fill that role. Sochan will never be a Diaw, he will never be a Rodman, and it is unlikely he will ever become even an Aaron Gordon, but Gordon was the 4th pick, has incredible athleticism, and was not doing all that great when he was with Orlando. He got a suitable role for him in Denver, playing with one of the best offensive player that unlocked his potential. Again, right environment, right skill sets. Trying to fit Sochan into some swiss army knife role is just a bad experiment that won't go anywhere, at least not now, it's asking a kid to do quadratic functions before he knew how to do basic algebra. Perhaps Sochan will spend his entire career doing basic algebra, and that is fine, but to say he sucks because he can't do quadratic functions is unfair.

Another example is Wiggins, he was a huge bust with the Wolves, because the expectations was for him to be the next Mike. Guess what? He isn't. He found the role with the GSW and he blossomed into a valuable player. There are different types of basketball players and FO just has to find the right roles for them. By all indication, he is willing to do whatever is required of him, he works hard, and he doesn't complain.

Speaking of working hard, to say that he is lazy because it's been three years and he still can't shoot is lazy. Duncan's FT shooting actually got worse during his prime from 2004 to 2009, I would never call Duncan lazy because of that. Sochan did add elements to his game over the year, he because a better perimeter player, he became a vastly better cutter and rebounder, and those things don't just happen. His shot selection has improved quite a bit, cutting down on 3s and is taking it down low for dunks ad layups. His finishing has also improved quite a bit. He is relying mostly on cuts now and doesn't have to create (Thank God) and he is steadily increasing the % of corner 3s.

That said, he does have HUGE flaws in his game. There are outlines of tools that can make him a very good role player, maybe even an elite role player like Aaron Gordon and Bam (not likely but we can all hope) but he has to build there. He was ranked 90th in the 2021 RSCI rankings. The only player ranked below him (in the top 100) that were drafted were KJ Simpson and Devin Carter, so he most definitely worked hard and improved and as such I am still holding out hope.

I want him to succeed with the Spurs, but yeah, if we can find a strong lock down perimeter player who can make threes, I can see why we would let him go.

[John B]

During the championship years, Pop had his players as specialists, 3-and-D, shooters. They had players who know “exactly” their role. In the absence of talent, Sochan started reinventing himself, and not only him but Keldon, Vassell. They need defined roles. I’m not taking away from Sochan, he is a high energy, disruptive player. During the championship years, he would be that, a Bruce Bowen type who will defend hard and be on the spot to hit that 3. I bet Bruce Bowen will be called out also if he were on this team, instead of his jersey hanging up there. The Spurs are slowly getting their talent and players roles will be more defined. No more Vassell trying to create too much and playing out of team offense. It’s Spurs basketball and what stood for more than two decades, getting in the playoffs every year, no matter who’s on the court it seems, it doesn’t matter who, they moved well within the system. I think that’s the goal. No more overthinking and playing outside their comfort zone. They have to fall in. And if they don’t, then they pack up.

[scott]

Good post, ambchang.

It's interesting to me that the opinions on Sochan tend to be on the extremes. Folks either want to pencil him in a part of our untouchable core... or want to give him away for a bag of curly fries.

I'm in the middle - and people seem to get really defensive (one way or another) about it. I think Jeremy is a young, toolsy player who has flashed some potential. Generally plays good D, flashes great D at times, is a solid and improving rebounder, is a good cutter and guy for the dunker spot, but is severely limited offensively and displays very low BBIQ at times.

What do we do with this type of guy? Some want to extend him for 4/100, others want to over him 3/30 or, like I said, trade him for a bag of curly fries. I'd personally treat him the way we did Lonnie - let him have a prove it year ahead of RFA. We can always give him an extension next summer, or we can see how the market values him and match next offseason. He's still very young and has flashed enough to not want to simply give up on, but he's not shown enough to commit to. I'm not necessarily looking to trade him, but I'm also not opposed to trading him.

I will say, however, I'm genuinely confused by the folks who will stan hard for Jeremy. I don't understand what they are seeing that makes them write things like "We have Wemby, Fox, Harper and Sochan! We stacked!" One of those things is not like the others (for now). I agree that he brings a rare skillset, but it's yet to be seen if it is a particularly useful skillset.

[LeBowen]

I agree that he should have a season to prove himself, but the issue is that he just doesn't fit the team anymore.
If we get Harper we'll have three guards that need shooters around them.
Jeremy kind of got fucked by PG and C experiments, I don't want to see him as a backup C next season. Either make it work with him as a forward or trade him for everyone's sake.

[spurraider21]

sochan isnt a worthless player, hes one of the few guys we have had that can impact a game defensively and he does very well on SG/SF types. but his offensive production is largely just cutting for easy finishes in the paint. he did get better at contested finishes. but his ballhandling is rarely relevant. his passing isnt noteworthy even though it was one of his plus traits in college. hes just very passive on offense unless he is spoonfed a high quality shot.

so how much do you pay a good perimeter defender who is a non-factor offensively, and doesnt offer rim protection. i dont think its 15+ mil

[RC_Drunkford]

Good post, ambchang (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=986).

It's interesting to me that the opinions on Sochan tend to be on the extremes. Folks either want to pencil him in a part of our untouchable core... or want to give him away for a bag of curly fries.

I'm in the middle - and people seem to get really defensive (one way or another) about it. I think Jeremy is a young, toolsy player who has flashed some potential. Generally plays good D, flashes great D at times, is a solid and improving rebounder, is a good cutter and guy for the dunker spot, but is severely limited offensively and displays very low BBIQ at times.

What do we do with this type of guy? Some want to extend him for 4/100, others want to over him 3/30 or, like I said, trade him for a bag of curly fries. I'd personally treat him the way we did Lonnie - let him have a prove it year ahead of RFA. We can always give him an extension next summer, or we can see how the market values him and match next offseason. He's still very young and has flashed enough to not want to simply give up on, but he's not shown enough to commit to. I'm not necessarily looking to trade him, but I'm also not opposed to trading him.

I will say, however, I'm genuinely confused by the folks who will stan hard for Jeremy. I don't understand what they are seeing that makes them write things like "We have Wemby, Fox, Harper and Sochan! We stacked!" One of those things is not like the others (for now). I agree that he brings a rare skillset, but it's yet to be seen if it is a particularly useful skillset.

I'm also in the middle about him. He's young and has potential, but if we really want to make noise in the postseason, we basically have to construct a roster around him because he can't shoot. If he comes off the bench our back up big has to shoot 3s. If he starts one of Harper or Castle needs to develop into a good 3-point shooter. At some point you gotta let go if he holds back the entire roster.

I already have problems penciling him into the rotation for this season if we want to play line ups with proper spacing. He might be an end of the bench guy by next season.

[KobesAchilles]

If Sochan could just shoot the fucking ball then we would be in the perfect position to trade for Giannis bc hypothetically Wemby, Giannis, an offensively competent Sochan, Harper, and Fox could win a ring or two… (yes in my scenario I traded Castle instead of Harper)

[ace3g]

more quick glimpses from a recent IG story

https://x.com/Spurs_Latam/status/1923426776190996817

[LeBowen]

Using the FIBA ball, they know what's in line down the road.

[Pauleta14]

Not a hater contrary to what some here think, it'll be the 3rd season I'm waiting to be proven wrong about Sochan tho.

Who knows...

[Mal]

Using the FIBA ball, they know what's in line down the road.

Eurobasket in Poland

[LeBowen]

Eurobasket in Poland

I know, don't ruin the joke. :devil
Branham certainly won't be playing at Eurobasket.

[tbdog]

If Sochan could just shoot the fucking ball then we would be in the perfect position to trade for Giannis bc hypothetically Wemby, Giannis, an offensively competent Sochan, Harper, and Fox could win a ring or two… (yes in my scenario I traded Castle instead of Harper)

Even a drastic increase in Sochan shooting, would still be an average shooter. Defensively though, that is a monstrous team.

[exstatic]

Sochan, post year three is virtually the same player as Aaron Gordon, post year three. AG was reviled by Orlando fans, and widely considered a bust.

[scott]

Sochan, post year three is virtually the same player as Aaron Gordon, post year three. AG was reviled by Orlando fans, and widely considered a bust.

It will be high fives all around if Sochan makes the same leap Gordon did in year 4

[Raven]

more quick glimpses from a recent IG story

https://x.com/Spurs_Latam/status/1923426776190996817

a bit of lateral rotation

[dn0774]

Sochan, post year three is virtually the same player as Aaron Gordon, post year three. AG was reviled by Orlando fans, and widely considered a bust.

Good pull, didn't realize there is actually similar scenario the played out positively.

[T Park]

if Sochan takes that form into the regular season, he'll be golden. its quick, good arch.

Good looking.

[T Park]

Branham is so damn frustrating. his form, the ball he shoots is freaking beautiful. Just doesn't translate to the court. whatever.

[Raven]

Branham is so damn frustrating. his form, the ball he shoots is freaking beautiful. Just doesn't translate to the court. whatever.

he's a .400 3point shooter starting from this season. That's golden in my book. The season percentage improvement matches the stroke imo.

[T Park]

he's a .400 3point shooter starting from this season. That's golden in my book. The season percentage improvement matches the stroke imo.

yeah everything else is garbage.

the shooting makes it hard to give up on him. however im sure they are prob going to. however ive been wrong the last year or two.

[John B]

Branham is so damn frustrating. his form, the ball he shoots is freaking beautiful. Just doesn't translate to the court. whatever.

Then I would blame that on the coach. The coach needs to create plays that would get him make open shots so his high percentage would translate. It’s true during the championship years, whoever they put seems to get open shots. The team has not been that good, but slowly they are collecting talents and should better opportunities for players to excel. Spurs had players like Gary Neal, Jonathon Simmons, who were fortunate to play in a winning team that makes their jobs easier and allowed them to succeed. I bet Branham would make those shots when he’s not harassed and instead wide open.

[Raven]

yeah everything else is garbage.

the shooting makes it hard to give up on him. however im sure they are prob going to. however ive been wrong the last year or two.

his finishing around the rim is also good and his wingspan is amazing. Unfortunately he is a shitty defender, but not any worse than castle at this stage. I think a coaching change would do him a lot of good.

[RC_Drunkford]

more quick glimpses from a recent IG story

https://x.com/Spurs_Latam/status/1923426776190996817

as somebody who has seen Sochan's warm up program in person (Paris Games vs. Pacers), this is a huge leap. He was bricking shots from everywhere with a hitch in his form, including close range. This is quite some progress.

[John B]

as somebody who has seen Sochan's warm up program in person (Paris Games vs. Pacers), this is a huge leap. He was bricking shots from everywhere with a hitch in his form, including close range. This is quite some progress.

Players are auditioning for that last spot :lmao:lmao

It’s a big contrast to Castle paying prime to work on his game.

[BatManu20]

Happy 22nd Birthday to Jeremy. Easy to forget how young he still is tbh. His best basketball is still ahead of him.

1924845761671369165

[LeBowen]

His best basketball is still ahead of him.

Future CBA MVP, tbh.

[BatManu20]

Future CBA MVP, tbh.

Nah future 4th place runner-up in 6MOY voting tbh.

[spurraider21]

branham actually shot the ball straight last year but he barely played in any consequential minutes so it was hard to notice

[Seventyniner]

branham actually shot the ball straight last year but he barely played in any consequential minutes so it was hard to notice

Good percentage on a small sample size. 40.5% on 84 3P attempts.

He shot 30.2% as a rookie and 34.7% as a sophomore from 3. If he somehow could round into a 40% three point shooter he could have a role in the league, anything less and his lack of bringing anything else to the table would be too much to ignore.

I'm fine with the Spurs having picked up his option. Trades need matching salary and the Spurs are over the cap anyway. But he shouldn't get any extension at all unless he somehow goes nuclear from 3, which he won't really have a chance to do given how crowded the backcourt is.

[Ocotillo]

By becoming a decent three point shooter with little to no "D", Branham has developed into our next Bryn Forbes.

[poopbox]

By becoming a decent three point shooter with little to no "D", Branham has developed into our next Bryn Forbes.

Hasn't been arrested nor beat up any pornstars. Got a long way to go to be Forbes tbh

[Knoxxx]

I guess this morphed into the Branham thread. The issue here is he’s more of an undersized SF and we already have a logjam at that position. PLUS we need more size.

[Obstructed_View]

branham actually shot the ball straight last year but he barely played in any consequential minutes so it was hard to notice
Branham and Sochan have the same issue to different degrees, and it's a question about whether they are committed to improvement. It's why people question Sochan's Instagram bids but don't do the same for Castle's. Nobody has any reason to doubt Castle's commitment to improving.

[Ice009]

Hasn't been arrested nor beat up any pornstars. Got a long way to go to be Forbes tbh

What's the story with Bryn hooking up with those types? I may be remembering wrong, but didn't KAT introduce him to some of those girls Bryn started messing around with, or maybe one was a friend of someone that was dating KAT at the time?

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Sochan, post year three is virtually the same player as Aaron Gordon, post year three. AG was reviled by Orlando fans, and widely considered a bust.

Thank you for all your nice inputs!

Yes Sochan deserves more time.

[scott]

Saw that the Bleacher report sneakily released the first in what will be many Extension Predictions from Various outlets (Keith Smith from Spotrac does the best one IMO): https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25192633-contract-extension-predictions-2025-nba-rookie-scale-players

They have Sochan at 3/33.

People have noted Bobby Marks recently saying $30MM/year for Christian Braun, BR had him at 4/94 before the OKC playoff series.

Other noteables: Chet and JDub both at the 25% max (with no opportunity granted to scale up). I think It will probably be 25% with the opportunity for 30% for JDub and somewhere between 20-25% for Chet. Keegan with 4/75, Daniels at 4/94, nada for Blake and Bran, 4/112 for Duren, 3/66 for Kessler.

[ambchang]

Quite shocked at the going price for Duren and if he does get something like this it would be a pretty bad contract. I’m not sure if there is another team out there who would pay that kind of money for him. Kessler is in a similar boat but not as drastic. I’d pay Daniel’s more than both of them rather easily.

Would love to have a chance to get Jabari smith Jr on a good deal next summer but I doubt that will happen.

A little surprised Chet will get the 25% max as his injury history is concerning. I’d thought he would get something closer to20%.

Sochans 3 for $33 sounds reasonable. Would be better with 3 for $30, or have the contract front loader $12/$11/$10 type deal would be great.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs gonna pay Sochan at least 50 million tbh, because „that’s who we are“, a charity organization.

I assumed Chet and J-Dub will get 25% extensions which should be a steal for OKC long term and allow them to keep the band together.

[scott]

Quite shocked at the going price for Duren and if he does get something like this it would be a pretty bad contract. I’m not sure if there is another team out there who would pay that kind of money for him. Kessler is in a similar boat but not as drastic. I’d pay Daniel’s more than both of them rather easily.

Would love to have a chance to get Jabari smith Jr on a good deal next summer but I doubt that will happen.

A little surprised Chet will get the 25% max as his injury history is concerning. I’d thought he would get something closer to20%.

Sochans 3 for $33 sounds reasonable. Would be better with 3 for $30, or have the contract front loader $12/$11/$10 type deal would be great.

Of course these are all just predictions... I'd also be surprised if Duren got that. I agree with you on Chet. I think he might do something like 5/175.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/BryanKalbrosky/status/1925193275213807708

[CGD]

https://x.com/BryanKalbrosky/status/1925193275213807708

Very nice interview

[poopbox]

Spurs gonna pay Sochan at least 50 million tbh, because „that’s who we are“, a charity organization.

I assumed Chet and J-Dub will get 25% extensions which should be a steal for OKC long term and allow them to keep the band together.

Now that SGA has won mvp it most certainly won't be a steal when you consider his money

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/BryanKalbrosky/status/1925193275213807708
Should add this to scott ‘s thread tbh

[SpursFan86]

$11MM/year for Sochan sounds more than reasonable. Would be happy to extend him for 3 years/33MM.

Once you get into that 16-20MM/year range that’s where I start being less thrilled at the idea of keeping him around.

[024]

Even though the basic stats didn't really show it, I thought Sochan made some progress last year. He's finding his place on his team and with some good facilitators, he should be a useful rotation player. His size is good enough at PF against most teams (Spurs really need a couple more reliable bigs though). I can see his shot improving next year as he works on his form. Could be an opportunity to lock him into a reasonable contract and hope he outperforms it (doubt it will be 11m/yr, maybe closer to the MLE amount of 12-13m/yr).

[RC_Drunkford]

Sochan might actually be the one player who can lock up SGA's foul batiting ass

[k830713]

Sochan 50/4

[stnick2261]

If Sochan can start hitting the 3 at a high clip, I'd really like to see if he can play the SF position.

I see a lot of people saying Fox, Castle and Harper should all play together, but I think that loses our size advantage. 32 minute rotation at the PG/SG positions is enough for each to play at 100% effort without getting worn out.

Sochan is fast enough to play SF, plays excellent Defense against smaller players, and it would open up the PF position for a larger player (big man) to bang around.

But it all comes around to his shot.

[John B]

I think Sochan needs to be just a 3andD guy like Bowen did. Bowen couldn’t even dribble the ball if his life defended on it, likewise Danny Green. But those players were “specialists” during the championship years. The more Spurs add talent to this roster, the better their duties are defined. I’m okay with extending Sochan with a “3&D” money, 11/year.

[Knoxxx]

Sochan might actually be the one player who can lock up SGA's foul batiting ass

True dat! I remember one game SGA just quit driving the ball on Sochan and passed it away quickly, not sure I’ve actually seen anyone else do that to him.

[scott]

Toumani Camara is everything we are hoping Sochan can become. Great defender capable of switching 1-5, can hit the 3.

What contract would you offer Camara if he was a FA right now? Sochan is probably worth around 50-60% of that.

[scott]

And before someone tries to argue that Sochan is a better defender than Camara (who just made All D 2nd team). Camara is 4 years older though.

https://i.imgur.com/ZJkzLeD.png

[Ariel]

I was supporting of drafting Sochan (I wanted whoever from Mathurin, Dyson Daniels and him were left at 9) and I still believe he can become a valuable player, but Spurs should absolutely NOT hand him a big contract before he proves he can't be played off the floor in the playoffs due to his offensive limitations. If they want to give him a 3 year deal (ideally 4th year team option) below the non tax payer MLE or in that range then that's fine, otherwise let hiim play out his 4th year and test restricted free agency. If he doesn't improve he won't get much elsewhere, and if he gets a big offer it's probably due to him elevating his game which means he's either a keeper or will get the Spurs an interesting return. No need to rush it unless it's a no brainer.

[quentin_compson]

I think we all need to appreciate the fact that at this point at least, Sochan isn't a bad shooter, he is simply a non-shooter. 3 and D is a looooong way away for him.

[cd021]

$11MM/year for Sochan sounds more than reasonable. Would be happy to extend him for 3 years/33MM.

Once you get into that 16-20MM/year range that’s where I start being less thrilled at the idea of keeping him around.


Sochan 50/4

I'm not sure he'd agree to either offer tbh. At that point he might as well gamble on himself. Even so, I think his value is higher relative to the rising cap. Still, I probably wouldn't pay him more than 15 million a year at this point.

[cd021]

Even though the basic stats didn't really show it, I thought Sochan made some progress last year. He's finding his place on his team and with some good facilitators, he should be a useful rotation player. His size is good enough at PF against most teams (Spurs really need a couple more reliable bigs though). I can see his shot improving next year as he works on his form. Could be an opportunity to lock him into a reasonable contract and hope he outperforms it (doubt it will be 11m/yr, maybe closer to the MLE amount of 12-13m/yr).

His efficiency improved quite a bit thanks to him taking fewer threes and shooting more of his shots at the rim. He also shot 70% within 3 feet which is great. Very good on the glass. I'm still iffy about his future even though he has is useful now.

If he can't be a consistent shooter then he is basically a center, and his value goes way down. If Fox and Wemby can be good high-volume 3-points shooters, then he could still work but I'm still hoping he can at least hit open threes.

[poopbox]

Toumani Camara is everything we are hoping Sochan can become. Great defender capable of switching 1-5, can hit the 3.

What contract would you offer Camara if he was a FA right now? Sochan is probably worth around 50-60% of that.

I mean Camara is such a different type of player than Sochan I don't see how the two can be compared and I don't see any way for Sochan to become that type of player. He doesn't have the skill set.

I'm learning I like Jeremy even less than I thought because instead of being ok with getting him for super cheap I would rather do literally anything else with that money. Never thought I could dislike a player so much I wouldn't want to pay him 10 million a year but here we are.

I'd do 4 for somewhere between 80 and 90 for Camara. And 2 years into that contract it might be a steal cause he seems like the type of player who would explode with more playing time.

[KobesAchilles]

I think Sochan has proven with his instagram posts that his shot is completely fixed and he is ready to take the next leap developmentally. He has shown he can handle the ball. He can make all the passes and run an offense. He shuts down every teams best player. And add to it his elite 3 point shot that he has developed and he is worth 5 years 130 million. I think that’s a fair price and in 5 years time it’s going to be a steal.

There are too many haters here on Spurstalk. Sochan is only 22 guys. He completely redeveloped his shot. His rebounding is elite. His defense is elite. He will be our Draymond for us. Yall just need faith. Sign him long term and get him at a cheap deal bc next year if he plays out his contract he’s going to be a max guy.

[scott]

I mean Camara is such a different type of player than Sochan I don't see how the two can be compared and I don't see any way for Sochan to become that type of player. He doesn't have the skill set.

I'm learning I like Jeremy even less than I thought because instead of being ok with getting him for super cheap I would rather do literally anything else with that money. Never thought I could dislike a player so much I wouldn't want to pay him 10 million a year but here we are.

I'd do 4 for somewhere between 80 and 90 for Camara. And 2 years into that contract it might be a steal cause he seems like the type of player who would explode with more playing time.

Toumani is a different type of player because he can do all the things we need Sochan to do, but Sochan can't... which is exactly my point.

[heyheymymy]

Devin, Jeremy, and Steph are all three in Marbella, Spain on holidays

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBASpurs/comments/1ksva01/devin_jeremy_and_steph_are_all_three_in_marbella/

[Tyrone Jenkins]

If Sochan can start hitting the 3 at a high clip, I'd really like to see if he can play the SF position.

Why does anyone think this will happen at this point?

[Tyrone Jenkins]

I think Sochan has proven with his instagram posts that his shot is completely fixed and he is ready to take the next leap developmentally. He has shown he can handle the ball. He can make all the passes and run an offense. He shuts down every teams best player. And add to it his elite 3 point shot that he has developed and he is worth 5 years 130 million. I think that’s a fair price and in 5 years time it’s going to be a steal.

There are too many haters here on Spurstalk. Sochan is only 22 guys. He completely redeveloped his shot. His rebounding is elite. His defense is elite. He will be our Draymond for us. Yall just need faith. Sign him long term and get him at a cheap deal bc next year if he plays out his contract he’s going to be a max guy.

Elite level shooting? Shuts down the other teams best player? Elite rebounding?

We must be watching different games...

[exstatic]

Why does anyone think this will happen at this point?
Because he’s shot better than Aaron Gordon at this point in their respective careers? We don’t need him to be Steph Curry. If he can shoot 35-36% on 5 attempt,that’s fine. He’s shot 31% the last two years, higher than any year ofGordon’s first three. You howling hyenas will probably get your way, they’ll trade him, and he’ll go be some other team’s Aaron Gordon, instead of being ours, OKC if we’re really unlucky. He’d be a thorn in Wemby’s side for a decade.

[LeBowen]

Because he’s shot better than Aaron Gordon at this point in their respective careers?

No, he didn't.
You can't look at percentages of a non-shooter like Jeremy. Every single one of his attempts except for buzzer beaters when he simply had to shoot were completely wide open.
He needs to get to 40%+ on those "alone in the gym" attempts where noone is even trying to contest him before we can look at his percentages.


https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shots-dash?SeasonType=Regular+Season
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shooting

(https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shooting)Or are you really going to have another one of your typical takes and say Jeremy is a better 3pt shooter than Castle just because of their percentages?
There's a bigger gap between Jeremy and Castle than between Castle and Devin.

[exstatic]

No, he didn't.
You can't look at percentages of a non-shooter like Jeremy. Every single one of his attempts except for buzzer beaters when he simply had to shoot were completely wide open.
He needs to get to 40%+ on those "alone in the gym" attempts where noone is even trying to contest him before we can look at his percentages.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shots-dash?SeasonType=Regular+Season
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shooting
I watched Aaron Gordon’s early career. Jeremy is a better shooter than early career Aaron. You’re allowed to hold any opinion you like, but that doesn’t make it right.

[LeBowen]

Jeremy is a better shooter than early career Aaron.

Year 3 Jeremy, 1.7 attempts, 4 games with more than 1 3pt made.
Year 3 Gordon, 3.3. attempts, 15 games with more than 1 3pt made.

Do I need to start posting highlights for you to see how Gordon's jumpshot looked compared to Jeremy's and the level of contest?
But I guess Jeremy was a way better shooter because he shot 2% better on half the volume. Not to mention how the game has changed over these 8 years and that half the volume in 2025 is actually even worse than that.

Or do you think that Castle is a worse shooter than Jeremy because he shot 2% worse on more than double the volume?
Until a player, in this case Jeremy, starts taking normal 3pts in the flow of the offense and gets at least some attention while doing it, his percentages are irrelevant.
He's at 30% on practice shots with no contest.


and he’ll go be some other team’s Aaron Gordon

He can become a good player, but he definitely won't became Aaron Gordon because of the size and athleticism difference.
He can't finish for shit through contact while young Gordon was jumping through and over defenders with ease.

You’re allowed to hold any opinion you like, but that doesn’t make it right.

[rankingtear]

Toumani is a different type of player because he can do all the things we need Sochan to do, but Sochan can't... which is exactly my point.

Would Toumani force the other teams best wing defender to guard him instead of Victor, cause that what we need Sochan to do tbh.

[poopbox]

Would Toumani force the other teams best wing defender to guard him instead of Victor, cause that what we need Sochan to do tbh.

No but he is a way more functional and modern nba player than Jeremy, and he is someone who when the balls finds him can do more than either make a wide open dunk, layup, or airball a 3, which is the extent of Jeremy's offensive capabilities.

[Ice009]

Man, just checked his contract. Amazing contract. What would it take to try and pry him away from the Blazers?

[benefactor]

Would Toumani force the other teams best wing defender to guard him instead of Victor, cause that what we need Sochan to do tbh.
:lol

[rankingtear]

No but he is a way more functional and modern nba player than Jeremy, and he is someone who when the balls finds him can do more than either make a wide open dunk, layup, or airball a 3, which is the extent of Jeremy's offensive capabilities.

Why are they are resting the high usage guards on him, his top 3 matchup on offense is Curry, Harden and SGA.

[RC_Drunkford]

when you're arguing with exstatic you always have to remind yourself that you are arguing with a retard.

Sochan just turned 22, so there's still a chance. I'd love if the Spurs would just stick him in the corner and tell him to only practice corner 3s, kinda like we used Bruce back in the day. Until he learns to make 3s at a reasonable clip, he's holding the entire team back and that can't really go on for longer than one more season.

[Jordan Jackson]

Comparing Sochan to Aaron Gordon is offensive and leads me to believe some of you never saw him during his early years in Orlando.

The guy was an absolutely gifted athlete especially for his size. Big, strong and fast. Talent was not the issue. He was miscast as a franchise player/center piece in Orlando. And he wasn’t.

His shot was also not non-existent outright broken. There was something to build upon.

People are misrepresenting the numbers with this comparison and underrating how talented Gordon is. I saw this crazy take on Twitter, can’t believe it made its way here.

Just my opinion of course.

[Extra Stout]

Sochan has some skills. On a team with surplus shooting, he could bring value as a backup forward.

That team is not the Spurs.

[rankingtear]

Comparing Sochan to Aaron Gordon is offensive and leads me to believe some of you never saw him during his early years in Orlando.

The guy was an absolutely gifted athlete especially for his size. Big, strong and fast. Talent was not the issue. He was miscast as a franchise player/center piece in Orlando. And he wasn’t.

His shot was also not non-existent outright broken. There was something to build upon.

People are misrepresenting the numbers with this comparison and underrating how talented Gordon is. I saw this crazy take on Twitter, can’t believe it made its way here.

Just my opinion of course.

Sochan was compared to Gordon before he was even drafted tbh.

[rascal]

If Sochan can start hitting the 3 at a high clip, I'd really like to see if he can play the SF position.

I see a lot of people saying Fox, Castle and Harper should all play together, but I think that loses our size advantage. 32 minute rotation at the PG/SG positions is enough for each to play at 100% effort without getting worn out.

Sochan is fast enough to play SF, plays excellent Defense against smaller players, and it would open up the PF position for a larger player (big man) to bang around.

But it all comes around to his shot.

How much do you think Sochan will improve? Does he have the skill/ability to shoot 3 point shots off a dribble? Can he make 3 point shots while he has a defender near him?

Can he create space off a dribble and fire up an accurate 3 poiunt shot quickly? Is he going to shoot well enough to draw defensive coverage out to him? Or are you just hoping he can knock down an occasional open 3 point shot (which does nothing if he can't draw coverage out to him) at a league average rate because his 3 point ceiling is very limited by his skills and ability which are capped by his ability.

Three years in and we have seen what his shooting skill set is.

He does have the ability to improve some on open three point shots at a higher rate at a low shooting volume but he's not going to be a shooter hitting shots off the dribble or hitting shots with defenders near him, he just doesn't have those skills.

[stnick2261]

How much do you think Sochan will improve? Does he have the skill/ability to shoot 3 point shots off a dribble? Can he make 3 point shots while he has a defender near him?

Can he create space off a dribble and fire up an accurate 3 poiunt shot quickly? Is he going to shoot well enough to draw defensive coverage out to him? Or are you just hoping he can knock down an occasional open 3 point shot (which does nothing if he can't draw coverage out to him) at a league average rate because his 3 point ceiling is very limited by his skills and ability which are capped by his ability.

Three years in and we have seen what his shooting skill set is.

He does have the ability to improve some on open three point shots at a higher rate at a low shooting volume but he's not going to be a shooter hitting shots off the dribble or hitting shots with defenders near him, he just doesn't have those skills.

He has already improved his shot. If he gets even slightly better... all he has to do is start actually shooting them to draw the defense out and create space. I don't want the ball in his hands much. Just catch and shoot at a respectable rate. And if someone else shoots, I want him to crash the boards and clean up any misses. I want him out there for his defense. I just don't want him as an offensive liability. It's a low bar that he's been limbo'ing under, but wouldn't take much to reach "average".

[exstatic]

Sochan has some skills. On a team with surplus shooting, he could bring value as a backup forward.

That team is not the Spurs.

If he leaves, he will become one of the best Wemby defenders in the league.

[rascal]

He has already improved his shot. If he gets even slightly better... all he has to do is start actually shooting them to draw the defense out and create space. I don't want the ball in his hands much. Just catch and shoot at a respectable rate. And if someone else shoots, I want him to crash the boards and clean up any misses. I want him out there for his defense. I just don't want him as an offensive liability. It's a low bar that he's been limbo'ing under, but wouldn't take much to reach "average".

How has he improved? His 3pt shooting %s are the same on low volume.

He's getting more shots under the basket this past year so his shot making inside 5 feet was higher but his shooting away from the basket has not improved.

[scott]

Would Toumani force the other teams best wing defender to guard him instead of Victor, cause that what we need Sochan to do tbh.

Probably not - but what realistic option for the Spurs will?

[scott]

Man, just checked his contract. Amazing contract. What would it take to try and pry him away from the Blazers?

It would take more than we want to pay, honestly. One of the big podcasters, can’t remember who, recently theorized it would take 2 FRP

I would give up #14 in a heartbeat, but Blazers say no and I’m not willing to add to that.

[scott]

He has already improved his shot.


His year 2 to Year 3 Shooting % stayed exactly the same while his volume dropped nearly in half while other teams just stopped defending him entirely.

This is what we call an improved shot?

[ace3g]

In London now.

DKAS-Wgs911

[scott]

The Aaron Gordon comparison is interesting, not because I necessarily find it a great comparison but because it is an example of someone who started out as a shaky shooter and developed into at least a half-way respectable one (and actually a quite good one this year, albeit still on relatively low volume).

Comparing Sochan's 3rd season v Gordon's:




Very Tight 3PM
Very Tight 3PA
Very Tight 3P%
Tight 3PM
Tight 3PA
Tight 3P%
Open 3PM
Open 3PA
Open 3P%
Wide Open 3PM
Wide Open 3PA
Wide Open 3P%


Gordon
1
3
.333
6
22
.273
13
71
.183
57
170
.335


Sochan
0
0
-
1
3
.333
1
10
.100
26
79
.329



Very Tight = a defender within 2 feet
Tight = a defender within 2-4 feet
Open = nearest defender within 4-6 feet
Wide open = nearest defender 6+ feet away

So yeah, they were both pretty poor 3P shooters their third year, but Jeremy is a non-shooter in addition to being a bad shooter. He doesn't even attempt contested 3s, and or even open 3s. He's simply not someone teams are worried about and are willing to leave wide open at the 3P line. He doesn't even shoot when he's open... practicing in an empty gym is great, but at some point it has to translate to attempts in a game or it's meaningless. 28 3PM in a season is a crime against the sport for a modern PF.

We're all hoping that he develops a respectable 3P shot... but there is just no evidence to reasonably believe that he will. Anything is possible though!

[LeBowen]

So yeah, they were both pretty poor 3P shooters their third year, but Jeremy is a non-shooter in addition to being a bad shooter. He doesn't even attempt contested 3s, and or even open 3s. He's simply not someone teams are worried about and are willing to leave wide open at the 3P line. He doesn't even shoot when he's open... practicing in an empty gym is great, but at some point it has to translate to attempts in a game or it's meaningless. 28 3PM in a season is a crime against the sport for a modern PF.

Another thing to add is that Spurs took 40 3pts per game this season.
Magic took 26 in 2017.
Year 3 Gordon would've surely taken even more in today's game.

As you said, him not even thinking about shooting is a bigger issue than him being a bad shooter and all the talk about 30% 3pt is completely irrelevant and straight up idiotic.
Castle's 30% 3pt is way different because he takes them in the flow of the offense, takes some off the dribble, gets contested, takes some way behind the line, it just looks natural.
I'm sure it wasn't his idea, but the Spurs wanted him to do it right away instead of building bad habits.

How can anyone be optimistic about Jeremy's shot when he's had 3 seasons with no pressure whatsoever and not only that he didn't make any improvement, but his volume was the lowest this season.
Maybe he finds a miracle working coach and develops a reliable jumpshot, but Spurs can't rely on that. We need legit players to win games. He can be on the end of the bench until he shows reasonable signs of improvement.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The Aaron Gordon comparison is interesting, not because I necessarily find it a great comparison but because it is an example of someone who started out as a shaky shooter and developed into at least a half-way respectable one (and actually a quite good one this year, albeit still on relatively low volume).

Comparing Sochan's 3rd season v Gordon's:




Very Tight 3PM
Very Tight 3PA
Very Tight 3P%
Tight 3PM
Tight 3PA
Tight 3P%
Open 3PM
Open 3PA
Open 3P%
Wide Open 3PM
Wide Open 3PA
Wide Open 3P%


Gordon
1
3
.333
6
22
.273
13
71
.183
57
170
.335


Sochan
0
0
-
1
3
.333
1
10
.100
26
79
.329



Very Tight = a defender within 2 feet
Tight = a defender within 2-4 feet
Open = nearest defender within 4-6 feet
Wide open = nearest defender 6+ feet away

So yeah, they were both pretty poor 3P shooters their third year, but Jeremy is a non-shooter in addition to being a bad shooter. He doesn't even attempt contested 3s, and or even open 3s. He's simply not someone teams are worried about and are willing to leave wide open at the 3P line. He doesn't even shoot when he's open... practicing in an empty gym is great, but at some point it has to translate to attempts in a game or it's meaningless. 28 3PM in a season is a crime against the sport for a modern PF.

We're all hoping that he develops a respectable 3P shot... but there is just no evidence to reasonably believe that he will. Anything is possible though!

If Sochan can fix his actual shooting form/motion it would go a long way. Some videos of him from the summer looked like he got rid of that ugly hitch in his jumper. But I thought the same thing the summer before.

[scott]

If Sochan can fix his actual shooting form/motion it would go a long way. Some videos of him from the summer looked like he got rid of that ugly hitch in his jumper. But I thought the same thing the summer before.

Yeah for sure. I don't want to come off as a Sochan hater, because I'm not ready to give up on him... but I think a lot of Spurs fans have put him on a pedestal that he frankly hasn't earned yet. People want to write his name in sharpie as part of our long term core, and say he's untouchable in a trade... or offer him a 5/100 extension... but he's none of those things yet. He's a seriously flawed offensive player who is solid on defense and shows flashes of defensive greatness. He is not the all world defender some make him out to be... but that doesn't make him a bad player either. Let him play this season and go into RFA this year and see where things stand. Kind of the same approach we took with Lonnie.

But... I'm not going to be the guy who falls for summer workout videos either. I'll leave that for Ben Simmons truthers :lol

[Ariel]

I mostly agree with the above posts, it was painful watching him last year get the ball wide open, hesitate for a couple of seconds, then pass it back. That kills your team and makes you a huge liability. If you take that shot and you can hit it at 33%-34%, that changes everything. That's all I'm asking for. Also, his hands are not good, but this is unlikely to change so it will come down to the shot.

[RC_Drunkford]

if he indeed fixed his shooting motion Mitch has to let him shoot at least 3 attempts per game and give him the green light to shoot those when the defense leaves him open. That's the only way to find out if those workouts actually translate.

[LeBowen]

if he indeed fixed his shooting motion Mitch has to let him shoot at least 3 attempts per game and give him the green light to shoot those when the defense leaves him open. That's the only way to find out if those workouts actually translate.

Poland is at Eurobasket, I'm not sure of his role with the national team, I guess that will be a good preview.

[KobesAchilles]

5/150 would be a steal for a player of Sochans caliber. It’s basically what Braun is going to get except Jeremy is bigger, an elite defender, and an equal shooter. Except unlike Braun, Sochan has room to improve since he’s so young. Better to sign him early rather than having him go to market.

[Guru of Nothing]

Could we do 3 years 15-15-20 with 3rd year being team option? Seems pretty fair, and flexible.

[scott]

5/150 would be a steal for a player of Sochans caliber. It’s basically what Braun is going to get except Jeremy is bigger, an elite defender, and an equal shooter. Except unlike Braun, Sochan has room to improve since he’s so young. Better to sign him early rather than having him go to market.

Anything less than the max is found money, tbqh

[KobesAchilles]

Could we do 3 years 15-15-20 with 3rd year being team option? Seems pretty fair, and flexible.
He’d get at least double that on the open market. He wouldn’t sign that.

[KobesAchilles]

Anything less than the max is found money, tbqh
You have to look at potential and the archetype needed for the team. He’s completely restructured his shot. He’s put in the work and will be shooting at a very high level next year. The Spurs see this first hand. A Sochan with a shot is an all-star caliber player. Now he won’t put up the counting stats to be an All-Star bc he is a team player and will do what is best for the TEAM rather than what’s best for him. This iteration of Sochan can easily average 18, 8, and 5 while playing great defense for a bad basketball team. Instead he will sacrifice some of his offense to Castle and Harper and probably only average 11 points, 6 boards, and 3 assists.

You have to reward this type of team first mentality with a contract that acknowledges his hard work, improvement, and sacrifice.

[scott]

You have to look at potential and the archetype needed for the team. He’s completely restructured his shot. He’s put in the work and will be shooting at a very high level next year. The Spurs see this first hand. A Sochan with a shot is an all-star caliber player. Now he won’t put up the counting stats to be an All-Star bc he is a team player and will do what is best for the TEAM rather than what’s best for him. This iteration of Sochan can easily average 18, 8, and 5 while playing great defense for a bad basketball team. Instead he will sacrifice some of his offense to Castle and Harper and probably only average 11 points, 6 boards, and 3 assists.

You have to reward this type of team first mentality with a contract that acknowledges his hard work, improvement, and sacrifice.

Are you thinking .430 from 3P%, or is that too low?

[KobesAchilles]

Are you thinking .430 from 3P%, or is that too low?
A little low. I mean look at that form :lol

[Pauleta14]

He’d get at least double that on the open market. He wouldn’t sign that.

Double would be 30-30-40 bro...:lol

There's no way a team pay that much for a guy who can't shoot and can be a liability on offense with poor court awareness or passing abilities

(Unless you imagine a miracle U-Turn)

[The Truth #6]

Beyond the debate on his abilities, it seems like he gets injured for a good stretch the last few years. Sure. Some soft tanking complicates the clarity on this issue. But I'm wondering if his wild style of play is what keeps him on the court but also keeps him off the court.

[RC_Drunkford]

if you look at his scouting report coming out of college, he's still the exact same player. Same can be said for Wesley and Branham. Our player development staff seems to suck bigtime.

[exstatic]

sqZZrZ7ClEM

[exstatic]

r-V76U2vY50

[objective]

Great, more videos repeating the never documented, likely fake 7-foot wingspan measurement while ignoring the lack of steals or blocks or charges drawn or deflections or loose balls recovered....

[T Park]

if you look at his scouting report coming out of college, he's still the exact same player. Same can be said for Wesley and Branham. Our player development staff seems to suck bigtime.


If you think he hasnt developed since they first got him in the system i dont know what the fuck youre looking at.

[RC_Drunkford]

If you think he hasnt developed since they first got him in the system i dont know what the fuck youre looking at.

name one thing he improved besides freethrow percentage

[T Park]

name one thing he improved besides freethrow percentage

Low post game, initiating offense. Lots of shit.

Good chirst

[KobesAchilles]

Low post game, initiating offense. Lots of shit.

Good chirst
When I think Sochan the first thing that comes to mind is low post game. It’s like watching Duncan all over again :lol

You Know you’re bull shitting when you say low post game! And then end it with lots of shit :lmao

[RC_Drunkford]

Low post game, initiating offense. Lots of shit.

Good chirst

where in the world was he initiating the offense? He‘s in the 50th percentile in post ups with a frequency of 3.9%. That means he barely does it. Unless he was completely useless before he didn‘t improve at all. Dude posted up in college as well.

[objective]

He stepped up his hair dye game. In college it was pretty weak. Simple bleach.

Now he goes green and this mundane unremarkable rebounder gets lots of Spurs fans posting that he's the next Rodman!

[rascal]

If you think he hasnt developed since they first got him in the system i dont know what the fuck youre looking at.

He could hit unguarded layups and dunks when he entered the league. Still has no mid range shot and can't score on anyone if guarded near the basket.

Often will even pass the ball back out when near the basket when guarded because he has no shot creation.

[scott]

He stepped up his hair dye game. In college it was pretty weak. Simple bleach.

Now he goes green and this mundane unremarkable rebounder gets lots of Spurs fans posting that he's the next Rodman!

ACKSHUALLY... he hasn't even improved here either... still the same guy

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gR_0LKlMfuw/hq720.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEhCK4FEIIDSFryq4qpAxMIARUAAAAAGAElAADIQj0AgKJ D&rs=AOn4CLAb0vogQ_Nq6yllbsCaGcOxi7a8Pg

[Pauleta14]

Only thing that could make up a bit for Mitch being named head coach would be Sochan being traded

He makes Vassell looks like a keeper

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPkchPo20Q0

[Ice009]

Is that video worth watching? I watched about 10 seconds and it seems to be a British basketball channel. I honestly never even thought about British hoops. Do many people play basketball in the UK, or is it mostly football/soccer?

[Ni-G]

For video you have to decide for yourself, I'd listen to it in a car as a podcast instead of watching it. BBall is surprisingly popular here, mostly with poorer ethnic minorities: Asian, African and Eastern European origin.
Government funding unfortunately non existent as most of money goes to posh private school white boys sports sadly.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/JahlilWill/status/1932141737465548938

[Ariel]

https://x.com/JahlilWill/status/1932141737465548938
I haven't been this impressed by practice 3s since Ben Simmons' annual clip.

[John B]

https://x.com/JahlilWill/status/1932141737465548938

Holy crap!!… He cut his hair

Seriously, he keeps shooting like that he’d be the 3 and D Spurs have been wanted him to be. Great stuff

[SOMA Spur]

https://x.com/JahlilWill/status/1932141737465548938

Putting in work at Clark HS!?! My old alma mater. Come to think of it, I practiced in that gym, 36 years ago, before Coach cut my ass freshman year. Nice little blast from the past. Thx for this Ace.

[RC_Drunkford]

if Sochan becomes a 3-point shooter while we get KD, it's gon be so over for the NBA :lol

Coach Moris Hadzija is saying Jeremy put in a lot of work on his shot. The good thing is it's still early, so plenty of time to work on it.

[Pauleta14]

People still falling for IG Summer workouts in 2025?? :lmao

[Ice009]

if Sochan becomes a 3-point shooter while we get KD, it's gon be so over for the NBA :lol

Coach Moris Hadzija is saying Jeremy put in a lot of work on his shot. The good thing is it's still early, so plenty of time to work on it.

Who is coach Moris Hadzija?

[Spurs Homer]

People still falling for IG Summer workouts in 2025?? :lmao

You have eyes?

Look at his shot. It is like watching two different players if you watch video of the past 2 seasons. The mechanics are completely different and it is one fluid motion and release - unlike the hitch and the hesitation and the jerk of the hand right before releasing and the jerky post release...

it just looks like a comfortable fluid jump shot now...

[SpursBills]

Just some data to consider with regards to his shooting progress:



Poor shooting defensive wings - when did they shoot?






>1.5 3PM/100
>2 3PM/100
>2.5 3PM/100


Herb Jones
25
25
N/A


Dorian Finney-Smith
23
24
26


OG Anunoby
20
20
23


Lu Dort
20
21
21


Royce O'Neale
25
26
30


Dillon Brooks
22
22
23


Toumani Camara
23
24
24


Aaron Gordon
21
22
N/A


Alex Caruso
24
24
29


Draymond Green
23
24
N/A


Matisse Thybulle
22
22
27


Derrick Jones Jr
23
26
N/A


Dean Wade
23
24
24



For reference:
1.5 3PM/100 is basically a borderline non-shooter e.g. Draymond Green (career 1.4 3PM/100)
2 3PM/100 is probably slightly lower than league average for a wing e.g. Cason Wallace this year was at 1.9 3PM/100
2.5 3PM/100 is probably around league average or slightly higher e.g. Pat Williams this year

I think for Sochan to be a viable player for what he does, he should ideally get to 2.5 but at minimum > 2 3PM/100

In his age 21 season, he was at 1.0 3PM/100

[jeebus]

I haven't been this impressed by practice 3s since Ben Simmons' annual clip.

Simmons didn't show us shit except that he has an extremely large stock of coconut oil. Sochan showed us his shot doesn't look like a 45 minute process anymore.

[KobesAchilles]

Spurstalk like clockwork :lmao

But but his shot is better now! I called this shit months ago :lol

The dude is not a shooter. He made 28 threes last year. Castle (who is a shitty shooter himself) has thirty less career 3s made than Sochan. Let that sink in and then bring up his shot mechanics

[picnroll]

.., and yet Sochan tracks better than Aaron Gordon’s stats his first three years. I’m betting this is going to be a breakout year for Sochan provided good health.

[Uriel]

What do ya’ll think about this theoretical lineup:

PG - Fox
SG - Cunningham
SF - Iguodala
PF - Durant
C - Wembanyama

Is there synergy between these players? Do they fit well together?

[KobesAchilles]

.., and yet Sochan tracks better than Aaron Gordon’s stats his first three years. I’m betting this is going to be a breakout year for Sochan provided good health.
I’m tired of people posting this lie. In Gordon’s 3rd year he made 80 three pointers. In Sochans 3rd year he didn’t even attempt 80 three pointers nvm make 80. Gordon made 350% more three pointers than Sochan. In his 4th year Gordon got hurt but he was on track to make 160 games but instead ended up making 120 threes a game. Can you honestly say you expect Sochan to even take 120 threes next season?

Ya’ll can say things about Sochans game that will actually improve that is going to help the team (maybe his defense and his attention to detail, maybe his secondary play making, maybe he just becomes a rebounding magnet and averages 8+ a game) but his shooting isn’t going to improve enough for their to take any merit in it.

[The Truth #6]

So his form keeps getting better, but there's still always something wrong with it. It's a riddle. But hey, I love the progress, don't get me wrong.

[exstatic]

I’m tired of people posting this lie. In Gordon’s 3rd year he made 80 three pointers. In Sochans 3rd year he didn’t even attempt 80 three pointers nvm make 80. Gordon made 350% more three pointers than Sochan. In his 4th year Gordon got hurt but he was on track to make 160 games but instead ended up making 120 threes a game. Can you honestly say you expect Sochan to even take 120 threes next season?

Ya’ll can say things about Sochans game that will actually improve that is going to help the team (maybe his defense and his attention to detail, maybe his secondary play making, maybe he just becomes a rebounding magnet and averages 8+ a game) but his shooting isn’t going to improve enough for their to take any merit in it.

You’re chiding people for talking about apples when you’re talking about oranges. It’s not in anyway a lie to say Sochan shot better percentages his first three years. Just because you value raw makes over that STILL doesn’t make it a lie.

[exstatic]

What do ya’ll think about this theoretical lineup:

PG - Fox
SG - Cunningham
SF - Iguodala
PF - Durant
C - Wembanyama

Is there synergy between these players? Do they fit well together?

Iggy is 41, and has been retired for two full seasons.

[KobesAchilles]

You’re chiding people for talking about apples when you’re talking about oranges. It’s not in anyway a lie to say Sochan shot better percentages his first three years. Just because you value raw makes over that STILL doesn’t make it a lie.
Bc his shooting percentage doesn’t matter when he isn’t making enough 3s. Sochan is ranked 352 in made 3s per game. His shooting percentages don’t matter. Might as well bring up Shaqs 3 point percentage.

[KobesAchilles]

You’re chiding people for talking about apples when you’re talking about oranges. It’s not in anyway a lie to say Sochan shot better percentages his first three years. Just because you value raw makes over that STILL doesn’t make it a lie.
Dwight shot 53% from 3 his last year of playing with the Lakers. I guess according to you he is a great 3 point shooter.

[exstatic]

Bc his shooting percentage doesn’t matter when he isn’t making enough 3s. Sochan is ranked 352 in made 3s per game. His shooting percentages don’t matter. Might as well bring up Shaqs 3 point percentage.

That’s a fake stat. If a player chucked 12 3s per game and shot 25%, according to you, he's elite, since he makes 3.

[picnroll]

Bc his shooting percentage doesn’t matter when he isn’t making enough 3s. Sochan is ranked 352 in made 3s per game. His shooting percentages don’t matter. Might as well bring up Shaqs 3 point percentage.

… and Sochan averaged about the same number of points and more rebounds on lower usage.

[KobesAchilles]

That’s a fake stat. If a player chucked 12 3s per game and shot 25%, according to you, he's elite, since he makes 3.
Gotcha. So Dwight in his last year with the Lakers was an elite 3 point shooter bc he shot 53% from 3. Since my stat is fake that must be what you’re saying. I like how when I use stats they are somehow fake and somehow only your stats are real. And what’s funny is your rebuttal actually proves my argument right and you’re too stupid to realize it.

Basically what you’re saying is that my stat isn’t a good one bc a player can shoot a million threes and make a lot of threes and so therefore they aren’t a good three point shooter. Well let’s see if we can use your same logic on your stat… so using your same logic, a player can shoot a good percentage but if they barely shoot any 3s then it’s not a good stat.

I believe we are in agreement :lmao

[KobesAchilles]

… and Sochan averaged about the same number of points and more rebounds on lower usage.
I mean he averaged one point less than Gordon and one rebound more than Gordon. So if you want to say he averaged the same points then you have to say he averaged the same rebounds. But my point was in his shooting which is what we are talking about. Bc I don’t know why anybody is even bringing up Gordon when it comes to their game style. Sochan is nowhere near Gordon as an athlete and as a young buck Gordon was known for driving to the rim and dunking on people or catching lobs like crazy. He also shot a buncha 3s. So their games are really the opposite of each other.

The only similarity they really had was they both suck a midrange

[DAF86]

What do ya’ll think about this theoretical lineup:

PG - Fox
SG - Cunningham
SF - Iguodala
PF - Durant
C - Wembanyama

Is there synergy between these players? Do they fit well together?

Not really, no. Not enough shooting.

[DAF86]

Iggy is 41, and has been retired for two full seasons.

He's projecting Sochan as Iggy and Harper (or Castle) as Cunningham.

[DAF86]

You’re chiding people for talking about apples when you’re talking about oranges. It’s not in anyway a lie to say Sochan shot better percentages his first three years. Just because you value raw makes over that STILL doesn’t make it a lie.

When the sample size is minuscule, shooting % don't matter at all.

[SpursBills]

He's projecting Sochan as Iggy and Harper (or Castle) as Cunningham.

Harper vs Cade is kind of a weird comparison because aside from being high usage tall guards who are only decent athletes, their profiles have very little in common. In fact, stylistically they are basically opposites of one another.

College Harper:
-Gets the the rim at will (1:0.5:0.9 ratio of close 2P: far 2P: 3P)
-Historically efficient at the rim (70% shooting)
-Draws fouls at a high rate (42% FTR)
-Minimizes turnovers while creating for others (27 AST% vs 15 TO%, 1.7:1 AST:TO)
-Struggles shooting from anywhere outside the paint (31% midrange, 33% 3P, 75% FT)

College Cade:
-Struggles getting all the way to the rim (1:1.3:1.4 ratio of close 2P: far 2P: 3P)
-Only decent rim efficiency (62%)
-Good FTR (39%)
-Huge problem with turnovers (20 AST% vs 22 TO%, 0.85 AST:TO)
-Jump shot has never been a concern (34% midrange, 40% 3P, 85% FT)

Stylistically it's almost like comparing De'aaron Fox to De'Angelo Russell (not comparing level of play, just way of generating offense)

[SpursBills]

That’s a fake stat. If a player chucked 12 3s per game and shot 25%, according to you, he's elite, since he makes 3.

What coach in the NBA is going to allow a player shooting 25% over the course of a season to chuck 12 3's a game? Antoine Walker was one of the biggest chuckers in history and he still only jacked up 8 3s a game shooting 32% at his peak. A vast majority of the time if a player's a bad shooter, either his own lack of confidence in his shot or his coaches are gong to limit the number of 3s he shoots and how open he's going to be before he shoots them. Luka Doncic shot 32% his second year compared to Sochan's 31% last year. Are you telling me that they're the same level of shooter when we're looking at gravity and their ability to space the floor?

[DAF86]

Harper vs Cade is kind of a weird comparison because aside from being high usage tall guards who are only decent athletes, their profiles have very little in common. In fact, stylistically they are basically opposites of one another.

College Harper:
-Gets the the rim at will (1:0.5:0.9 ratio of close 2P: far 2P: 3P)
-Historically efficient at the rim (70% shooting)
-Draws fouls at a high rate (42% FTR)
-Minimizes turnovers while creating for others (27 AST% vs 15 TO%, 1.7:1 AST:TO)
-Struggles shooting from anywhere outside the paint (31% midrange, 33% 3P, 75% FT)

College Cade:
-Struggles getting all the way to the rim (1:1.3:1.4 ratio of close 2P: far 2P: 3P)
-Only decent rim efficiency (62%)
-Good FTR (39%)
-Huge problem with turnovers (20 AST% vs 22 TO%, 0.85 AST:TO)
-Jump shot has never been a concern (34% midrange, 40% 3P, 85% FT)

Stylistically it's almost like comparing De'aaron Fox to De'Angelo Russell (not comparing level of play, just way of generating offense)

It was Harper himself that started the comparisson:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25197842-dylan-harper-compares-his-game-cade-cunningham-james-harden-sga-ahead-draft

[DAF86]

He's projecting Sochan as Iggy and Harper (or Castle) as Cunningham.

After reading Kevin O' Connor's article, Uriel might be projecting Castle as Iggy and Harper as Cade.

[ambchang]

Good he’s working on the shot and actually strung three makes together. The shot looks smoother, it’s not all the yea there as there seems to be a slight delay and fling, but instead of a two motion shot it’s like a 1.3 motion shot now.

Not a Huge fan of that lean and legs kicking to the right motion, as he still seems to be lacking full balance and control.

Keep shooting, sochan making 2 3s a game at 33% would be a goal this year.

[scott]

https://imgflip.com/i/9ws6myhttps://i.imgflip.com/9ws6my.jpg

[T Park]

I think you can buy into shot form. not "Oh man he made this many in a row" but the form, the speed of the shot I think you can agree are encouraging and signs of improvement.

still on team Sochan, think it would be a mistake to give up on him.

[Mnky]

I’m tired of people posting this lie. In Gordon’s 3rd year he made 80 three pointers. In Sochans 3rd year he didn’t even attempt 80 three pointers nvm make 80. Gordon made 350% more three pointers than Sochan. In his 4th year Gordon got hurt but he was on track to make 160 games but instead ended up making 120 threes a game. Can you honestly say you expect Sochan to even take 120 threes next season?

Ya’ll can say things about Sochans game that will actually improve that is going to help the team (maybe his defense and his attention to detail, maybe his secondary play making, maybe he just becomes a rebounding magnet and averages 8+ a game) but his shooting isn’t going to improve enough for their to take any merit in it.

You're making the argument in support of Sochan. He has never been tasked with being an offensive guy. They gave him playmaker duties for awhile and he learned how to dribble and his off ball awareness rose a ton.

The fact that he hasn't shot many threes but went half a year as the worse PG in the league shows that he's not not doing it because it's bad. It just hasn't been the focus. They spent years retraining his arm. I never had a problem with the hitch because it was a natural progression for him to go through. When youre over riding a bad habit, you create a new one in steps. Anyone who has actual coaching experience knows this.

He might be the worse shooter in the league this year, but his form and shot have improved in the gym. That's not even arguable. Maybe it doesn't translate at all in the game but who cares. It's improved. It's just silly to say otherwise. Form is so much better and now he may be expected to take those shots if he wants to stick around with Wemby. Clearly he's doing what he can to get there.

Literally all he can do is being done and people still whine.

[Mnky]

I think you can buy into shot form. not "Oh man he made this many in a row" but the form, the speed of the shot I think you can agree are encouraging and signs of improvement.

still on team Sochan, think it would be a mistake to give up on him.

Always been a fan of Sochan. Still super young, his prime is still 5-7 years away. He has done everything they've asked and he plays well against our biggest threats in the league. He gets better every year and people still just hate instead of appreciate the growth.

I don't expect them to move him unless it was a Gianni's type situation. Him and Castle are perfect for the western conference teams we have to defend. Helps Wemby so much. You're not bringing in anyone that can help Wemby defensively like Sochan versatility can.

[RC_Drunkford]

we should sign Jakob Poeltl. He shot 100% from 3 in 21-22. It was 1 attempt, but it was from half court. He might be Steph Curry.

[Ice009]

Simmons didn't show us shit except that he has an extremely large stock of coconut oil. Sochan showed us his shot doesn't look like a 45 minute process anymore.

What's this Ben Simmons coconut oil thing?

[rascal]

Didn't we hear the same thing last summer. Sochan is working on his shot and it looks better.

[KobesAchilles]

You're making the argument in support of Sochan. He has never been tasked with being an offensive guy. They gave him playmaker duties for awhile and he learned how to dribble and his off ball awareness rose a ton.

The fact that he hasn't shot many threes but went half a year as the worse PG in the league shows that he's not not doing it because it's bad. It just hasn't been the focus. They spent years retraining his arm. I never had a problem with the hitch because it was a natural progression for him to go through. When youre over riding a bad habit, you create a new one in steps. Anyone who has actual coaching experience knows this.

He might be the worse shooter in the league this year, but his form and shot have improved in the gym. That's not even arguable. Maybe it doesn't translate at all in the game but who cares. It's improved. It's just silly to say otherwise. Form is so much better and now he may be expected to take those shots if he wants to stick around with Wemby. Clearly he's doing what he can to get there.

Literally all he can do is being done and people still whine.
I didn’t know that changing his shot every single year he’s been in the league is good coaching. From my experience teaching him a different form every single year isn’t a good thing. But meh what do I know?

What do I know? That Sochan next year won’t be a good volume 3 point shooter. That’s what I know. No whining, but I’m not sold on him being a volume 3 point shooter bc he changed his shot… again

[Poolboy5623]

is he shooting free throws with two hands now??

[LeBowen]

Guys, I think this player is a great prospect, look at his combine workout, making those 3pts with ease at :50 in the video.


https://youtu.be/sarzUqkqT4c?si=NTQiQZMpAC9g2mwD&t=50

Oh, wait...that's a video from 2022, nevermind.

[NASpurs]

I haven't been this impressed with a workout video ever since I watched future Spurs prospect Kevin Tran.

[spurraider21]

That’s a fake stat. If a player chucked 12 3s per game and shot 25%, according to you, he's elite, since he makes 3.
uhh, volume matters too. a guy who makes 39% from 3 on 7 attempts per game is going to be a better floor spacer than somebody who makes 43% on 3 attempts per game (assuming they play similar minutes)

[dbestpro]

I will be happy with Sochan when he realizes the team needs him to be a Swiss Army knife of defense. He needs to be more Bowen and less Manu.

[Mnky]

I didn’t know that changing his shot every single year he’s been in the league is good coaching. From my experience teaching him a different form every single year isn’t a good thing. But meh what do I know?

What do I know? That Sochan next year won’t be a good volume 3 point shooter. That’s what I know. No whining, but I’m not sold on him being a volume 3 point shooter bc he changed his shot… again


You don't become a shooter in one year. He had a horrific elbow issue with his form which is why the free throw from went in place. His free throws improved drastically, not slight or some. It was a drastic increase. Trying to learn 10 steps in one year is absolutely courner productive. You don't learn algebra 1, 2, geometry and calculus in one year. You take it gradually in steps. This doesn't change in athletics as much as people think it does. Steph is the best shooter ever, he still spends more time working on his shot than anyone. Irving has ridiculous handles, you still see him working on them constantly when he's just hanging around.

It takes time to develop things in reality as opposed to people expecting instant results. Sochan was tasked with being an all around defender. That's what he was drafted for and that's what he's been assigned with usually guarding the best player. He's done a great job at what he was supposed to.

Sure most people agree he won't be a good volume shooter next year. Noone expects him to be a good volume shooter. People are saying he's improving. He is. That's all.

[KobesAchilles]

You don't become a shooter in one year. He had a horrific elbow issue with his form which is why the free throw from went in place. His free throws improved drastically, not slight or some. It was a drastic increase. Trying to learn 10 steps in one year is absolutely courner productive. You don't learn algebra 1, 2, geometry and calculus in one year. You take it gradually in steps. This doesn't change in athletics as much as people think it does. Steph is the best shooter ever, he still spends more time working on his shot than anyone. Irving has ridiculous handles, you still see him working on them constantly when he's just hanging around.

It takes time to develop things in reality as opposed to people expecting instant results. Sochan was tasked with being an all around defender. That's what he was drafted for and that's what he's been assigned with usually guarding the best player. He's done a great job at what he was supposed to.

Sure most people agree he won't be a good volume shooter next year. Noone expects him to be a good volume shooter. People are saying he's improving. He is. That's all.
This is the dumbest shit I’ve heard in a long time. The dude isn’t a little kid. For professionals you do actually teach them how to shoot the first time. It’s been 4 fucking years. Hardly “instant” that you’re bitching about. You don’t teach him one way one year. A new way a second year and a brand new way a 3rd year. That’s just stupid. That isn’t how you teach someone how to shoot. Nobody told grown ass Steph Curry to shoot one way and work on it and then the next summer completely rehaul his shot and work on it and then the next summer completely rehaul his shot again and work on it. That’s just stupidity. Those aren’t proper steps. What happened is one person taught him one thing. Another person came in and taught him something completely different. Great fucking coaching :lol gtfoh

And where is the proof he has improved? If he doesn’t take and make 3s then he hasn’t really improved at all.

[objective]

Week old news I guess everyone but me knew about, but apparently Pelton did an article where he wrote about getting undervalued players to win a trade, i.e. the Pacers Paul George trade for Oladipo and Sabonis, and Pelton brought up Sochan among others as an undervalued player to target.

Haven't read it myself, just heard a summary on the daily dunks podcast from a week ago

[SpursGenius]

Givony an idiot has Harper falling to 4 and Spurs taking Kneuppel at 2

[SpursBills]

Week old news I guess everyone but me knew about, but apparently Pelton did an article where he wrote about getting undervalued players to win a trade, i.e. the Pacers Paul George trade for Oladipo and Sabonis, and Pelton brought up Sochan among others as an undervalued player to target.

Haven't read it myself, just heard a summary on the daily dunks podcast from a week ago

It's not an insane take by Pelton. This sounds weird, but I would wager that if you factor in age and impact, a Jeremy Sochan who's a league-average shooter or above can develop into one of the better off-ball wings in the league. He's not worth a whole lot right now because off-ball wings who can't shoot are worth next to nothing in this league, but we also ignore the fact that many of the off-ball wings who can shoot in the league didn't necessarily start shooting decently until their age 23-24 season while he just finished his age 21 season. For example, age 23 DFS was shooting 29% in the pros, age 21 Toumani was shooting 34% on low volume from the college line, age 21 Herb Jones shot 1/14 from the college 3 point line while hitting 63% FT.

If you take away his shooting and compare everything else to similar defensive off-ball wings, he's just straight up better at the same age in the stuff that's important - his frame will make it so he's not as vulnerable to getting bullied compared do slighter guys like McDaniels/Mikal Bridges, and he slides his feet about as well or better than most wings. While he doesn't generate turnovers like the super lengthy guys, his rebound rates (both offensive and defensive) clear everyone (including Gordon) and so he's able to get extra possessions that way, especially if you play him as a wing - which is the key. Part of that is because he plays inside, but he's defending on the perimeter too. Not surprisingly, his impact metrics are comparable to a ton of the current premier off-ball wings in their age 21 season in spite of the fact that he still can't shoot worth a shit.

So basically you've got a guy who's got a huge disparity in his value depending on if his shot comes around or not, and he's too young to really definitively say whether he's going to be a terrible shooter or an average one. If his shot doesn't come around, he's a non-shooting wing like Jarred Vanderbilt, who's worth maybe 10-12 million a year and basically a second round pick. But if his shot does come around, that might be a McDaniels-level guy who's worth 30 million and at least a couple decent 1st rounders. If the spurs are willing to treat him as a throw-in and you're a rival front office, it's a smart gamble to take.

[mo7888]

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[Mnky]

This is the dumbest shit I’ve heard in a long time. The dude isn’t a little kid. For professionals you do actually teach them how to shoot the first time. It’s been 4 fucking years. Hardly “instant” that you’re bitching about. You don’t teach him one way one year. A new way a second year and a brand new way a 3rd year. That’s just stupid. That isn’t how you teach someone how to shoot. Nobody told grown ass Steph Curry to shoot one way and work on it and then the next summer completely rehaul his shot and work on it and then the next summer completely rehaul his shot again and work on it. That’s just stupidity. Those aren’t proper steps. What happened is one person taught him one thing. Another person came in and taught him something completely different. Great fucking coaching :lol gtfoh

And where is the proof he has improved? If he doesn’t take and make 3s then he hasn’t really improved at all.

People are providing literal visual evidence his form has improved. Like I said, that's not even arguable. It's different and better than it used to be. That's their point and you're trying your hardest to rain on that parade.

You can always tell the people who are stuck in a teenage mindset with their view on learning. You actually learn much better at a younger age than an older age. Your brain functions more efficient for the purpose of learning and habit creating at a young age. It's why young kids learn to be bilingual so easily compared to their adult cournerparts. Your brain literally rewires and becomes less efficient at learning as you age.

Once again, anyone with actual knowledge or experience understands that you don't just change a lifetime of habit over night.

Everything you're saying to attack the process is just you spitting in the wind hoping you land on something relevant. You have no clue what he has done or been told. The only thing you have is what people are sharing, which is evidence of improvement.

By all means, continue pushing your made up narrative with no evidence or experience.

Cheers.

[Ditty]

Sochan is such a troll that he probably has been fucking with us the past 3 years that he could not shoot.

[RC_Drunkford]

sounds like he's getting shipped out in the KD deal