A Behind the Scenes Look at the Dejounte Murray Trade

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/dejounte-murray-atlanta-hawks-trade-exclusive/

Welp, there it is. :reading

[spurs1990]

So they could've had Onyeka Okongwu, the 6th overall pick in 2020 - a 6'8 forward who's only 22. Instead the Spurs favored an unprotected 1st. Shows you how volatile a top 10 pick is.

[Twisted_Dawg]

I was feeling slightly better reading your piece, until the part where the Spurs passed on OO

[jeebus]

I'm glad they didn't trade him for another on-the-cusp all star player who'd just continue the trend of pathetic mediocrity and would fuck up their cap space.

[td4mvp2k]

:toast

[Mr. Body]

I feel like if you're zipped into your musty, shit-stained yurt smelling each other's farts, you shouldn't be allowed to make trades in the NBA.

[Chinook]

So that trade is getting called in today if the Spurs are really going to waive Gallo. I would have preferred getting something back in the deal that could factor into this year, but it seems like keeping Murray was untenable.

[Mr. Body]

Good luck getting butts in the seats now, ya comical shitheels. Why should anyone believe in your product going forward?

[Mr. Body]

And can we stop pretending that this was four picks? The swap ain't a pick. It literally requires the Spurs to become better than the Hawks by that draft year. Continuing to dump talent after giving them an All-Star guard for free?

It was three picks. Let's be honest, please.

[jeebus]

Meh, trade him and McDermott to the Knicks for a first and an expiring.

[Dverde]

Thank you! It made the trade make more sense. I assumed Spurs didn’t want Collins. Glad to put the John Collins thing to rest on SP. Only thing I didn’t like was there was no young player asset.

[baseline bum]

https://j.gifs.com/y7gVno.gif

Gross, LJ

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/SamQuinnCBS/status/1542299074724073475

[Leetonidas]

Gross, LJ

:lol

[Chinook]

And can we stop pretending that this was four picks? The swap ain't a pick. It literally requires the Spurs to become better than the Hawks by that draft year. Continuing to dump talent after giving them an All-Star guard for free?

It was three picks. Let's be honest, please.

It wasn't four picks, and the article doesn't say it was. What it was is three picks and a swap, which is undoubtedly more than three picks.

In order of value, I'd put it.

2025 first
2027 first
2026 swap
2023 CHA first

The Spurs can control three years of the Hawks' drafts. That's much more valuable than a protected first. They can get those pretty easily now. If I had to guess at what the Spurs' plan is, it's for them to accumulate assets for the next two years and then live off them starting in 2025. They acquired those future picks now when they're relatively cheap so they won't have to worry about it later. I expect most of the follow trades to be focused on 2023 and 2024 picks.

Also, I understand some fans will be turned off by this trade. But I don't think players will see it as a bad thing. The team has been responsive to players' requests, and it seems pretty clear that Murray wanted to leave. I don't think anyone thinks the Spurs did DeJounte wrong by sending him to a team with title aspirations when they didn't feel like they were ready for that themselves. I doubt many players consider being traded from SA to ATL a punishment.

I'm not mad at the Spurs not wanting to "pay" DeJounte. It would have been really hard for him to be worth the DPE, and I'm glad it's not a decision they have to make. I said before last year that Murray's relationship with the Spurs could be on the edge of flipping into something caustic. I'm glad to see a cordial end that gives both sides what they want before it came to that.

[baseline bum]

And can we stop pretending that this was four picks? The swap ain't a pick. It literally requires the Spurs to become better than the Hawks by that draft year. Continuing to dump talent after giving them an All-Star guard for free?

It was three picks. Let's be honest, please.

It probably will end up four picks though:

2025 Atlanta first
2026 Charlotte second
2027 Atlanta first
2027 Charlotte second

[Ocotillo]

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0slSCgGwlc_CCZmyZ55OtS1up2s=/0x0:2034x3078/920x613/filters:focal(913x543:1237x867):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/54552399/usa_today_10024370.1493632611.jpg

The hell?

[TDomination]

I hate the trade

hate it

I’ve thought about it and I understand it but I still hate it.

[cjw]

I like OO but perhaps the Spurs weren’t enamored with that many guys being up for rookie extensions in short order (KJ this year, Vassell and OO next year, Primo following year)

[baseline bum]

So please timvp tell me they're dumping Poetl too now.

[DPG21920]

I still cannot believe, that SA with the young under contract all star and a bidding war, walked away with ABSOLUTELY ZERO for sure good assets :lol

I get unprotected picks are valuable, but they are so far away and even then not a guarantee that a SINGLE one is lottery level.

How on Earth, was OO not included in this deal WITH all the picks. Makes no sense. If they say no, walk away and trade DJ later. That’s the point of having multi year contracts.

This is the type of deal I would expect if there were no other bidders and DJ was toxic. Reading that there were multiple teams and the still couldn’t get OO? I truly dont get it timvp. Care to comment on your thoughts?

The should have easily been able to take out the ChA pick for OO - and told ATL sorry if they said no.

Ya, on one hand if getting OO makes the deal REALLY GOOD, its hard to complain to much, but SA was the one with the young all star and a bidding war. How do they not hold firm?

Not getting Collins instead of Gallo was a mistake. He has wayyyy more value than Gallo in a trade. If Gallo is now fully guaranteed and they dont even clear any extra cap space? So bad.

CHA pick is GUARANTEED not to be a lottery pick so what was the value there? We’ve seen SA cant trade non-lotto picks very easily to move up to more meaningful picks so whats the point of having a ton of those vs getting OO? It’s just silly, even though the trade makes sense too and has significant upside.

[baseline bum]

I like OO but perhaps the Spurs weren’t enamored with that many guys being up for rookie extensions in short order (KJ this year, Vassell and OO next year, Primo following year)

Have Keldon or Vassell shown anything yet to deserve a large extension?

[slick'81]

Enjoy the shit show

[baseline bum]

CHA pick is GUARANTEED not to be a lottery pick so what was the value there? We’ve seen SA cant trade non-lotto picks very easily to move up to more meaningful picks so whats the point of having a ton of those vs getting OO? It’s just silly, even though the trade makes sense too and has significant upside.

Especially when that Charlotte pick is probably even money to become two second rounders in 2026. Yay the Spurs can get their next Bryan Bracey and Jack McClinton from this deal!

[lmbebo]

Any insight on to why the spurs would consider trading him? Klutch sports? Extension?

[slick'81]

Any insight on to why the spurs would consider trading him? Klutch sports? Extension?

[Robz4000]

Any insight on to why the spurs would consider trading him? Klutch sports? Extension?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10040458-windhorst-dejounte-murray-told-spurs-he-wouldnt-sign-contract-extension-this-summer

:lol Klutch did it again

[Ditty]

I agree with DPG that the Spurs should of have asked for OO than the Hornets pick. At least we get a pretty good center if we don’t win the Victor lottery. Outside of that I’m fine with the trade.

[kjhip1]

So…..should I cancel my league pass this year?

[baseline bum]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10040458-windhorst-dejounte-murray-told-spurs-he-wouldnt-sign-contract-extension-this-summer

:lol Klutch did it again

Murray would have been a moron to sign an extension early with how much of a pay cut it would have been from his market value. I understand trading him if he said he was going to walk in 2024 but being smart enough to not sign cheap in 2023 doesn't mean he's gone in 2024.

[BatManu20]

Dejounte already took down all his Spurs pictures on IG :lol

[baseline bum]

I agree with DPG that the Spurs should of have asked for OO than the Hornets pick. At least we get a pretty good center if we don’t win the Victor lottery. Outside of that I’m fine with the trade.

Makes no sense at all to hold on to Poetl right now. His trade value is as high as it'll ever be.

[slick'81]

First kawhi,then demar,dejounte and probably kj. Spurs stingy af

[Mr. Body]

Poeltl most certainly gone. I'd expect Keldon gone. I'm not sure why they drafted anybody this year, tbh, they shoud have traded them for future assets.

[tbdog]

I agree with DPG that the Spurs should of have asked for OO than the Hornets pick. At least we get a pretty good center if we don’t win the Victor lottery. Outside of that I’m fine with the trade.

I'm pretty sure spurs are targeting hartenstein in free agency.

[Ditty]

Makes no sense at all to hold on to Poetl right now. His trade value is as high as it'll ever be.

Agree you are getting at least a first for Poeltl.

[Chinook]

I still cannot believe, that SA with the young under contract all star and a bidding war, walked away with ABSOLUTELY ZERO for sure good assets :lol

I get unprotected picks are valuable, but they are so far away and even then not a guarantee that a SINGLE one is lottery level.

How on Earth, was OO not included in this deal WITH all the picks. Makes no sense. If they say no, walk away and trade DJ later. That’s the point of having multi year contracts.

This is the type of deal I would expect if there were no other bidders and DJ was toxic. Reading that there were multiple teams and the still couldn’t get OO? I truly dont get it timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8). Care to comment on your thoughts?

The should have easily been able to take out the ChA pick for OO - and told ATL sorry if they said no.

Ya, on one hand if getting OO makes the deal REALLY GOOD, its hard to complain to much, but SA was the one with the young all star and a bidding war. How do they not hold firm?

Not getting Collins instead of Gallo was a mistake. He has wayyyy more value than Gallo in a trade. If Gallo is now fully guaranteed and they dont even clear any extra cap space? So bad.

CHA pick is GUARANTEED not to be a lottery pick so what was the value there? We’ve seen SA cant trade non-lotto picks very easily to move up to more meaningful picks so whats the point of having a ton of those vs getting OO? It’s just silly, even though the trade makes sense too and has significant upside.

How many teams haven't been to the lottery at all in the past three years? Eight. Only four have made the playoffs five times in a row, and only one has done it more than six times. It's actually not very likely that Atlanta will avoid conveying a lotto pick three years in a row to SA. Spurs fans don't tend to appreciate it for obvious reasons, but franchises tend not to be stable. In order for Atlanta to both benefit from the trade and avoid giving the Spurs a lotto pick, they'd have to make the playoffs seven years in a row. That's extremely unlikely. Right off the bat, the picks have more value than some people might fear.

Unprotected picks also allow the Spurs to trade way more of their assets that they could before. For example, the Spurs could trade each of their natural picks from 2024 all the way to 2028 without having to worry about the Stepien rule. That's not a huge thing now, but obviously it can be down the road. Those 2026 and 2028 picks are also enhanced because they come with swap rights. You're not betting on the Spurs being bad; you're betting on at least one of the Spurs or Hawks/Celtics being bad. Those are much better odds, which removes much of the downsides of the pick while adding upside. The Spurs are also able to use the unprotected firsts for swaps instead of their natural picks. So if they make another trade that involves a ton of picks coming from a team, they can, instead of offering a swap between their pick and that other team's pick, they can get the two best of their pick, ATL's pick and the new team's pick. That almost happened last year, when the Rockets barely avoided OKC being able to swap Houston's pick with Boston's that year.

There are 17 unprotected picks/swaps in the NBA right now, and the Spurs have three of them. And this is not counting Boston's top-1 protected swap. They are a rare commodity, and SA is probably third behind OKC and NOP in terms of their collection, and they've been doing this for less than a year. It's why I was telling folks to not freak out about the Spurs "not picking a direction" two years ago. It's easy to collect assets when you're rebuilding. They weren't going to miss their chance just because guys like Gay, Mills and even LMA didn't get moved for value.

As I said in another post, I think things were significantly rockier between Murray and the Spurs than we knew. Credit goes out to DJM and Klutch for keeping everything in house, and I don't think there's bad blood or anything. But I don't think the front office saw him the same way as the marketing team did. I don't think they believe him leaving is the blow a lot of us perceived it as. They MIGHT miss out on a higher return if he has another All-Star season. But they might've missed out on three years of complete control of another team's picks if Murray didn't put it together or if the buyers moved on or had bad starts to the season. I'm all about leverage and hope the Spurs did everything they could to bring in OO too, but I also understand why they wanted to do this cleanly and move on.

[Atl Spur]

First kawhi,then demar,dejounte and probably kj. Spurs stingy af

Doesn’t really have to do with stingy, rules won’t allow them to pay him what he’d be worth.

[Ditty]

We are not trading Keldon :pctoss lol

[K...]

do people not know how the league runs? San Antonio will not keep any good players without overpaying. we have to embrace the chaos. Y'all act like we sent murray to a glue farm or something.

Keeping players like Murray on high salary is what makes you into a sacremento. The spurs will be smarter than OKC or process Philly, we can hope.

[K...]

We are not trading Keldon :pctoss lol

not this year, but probably? he's a nice role player who shoots well but doesn't have a natural position. Rich man's Bertans TBQH

[mo7888]

Makes no sense at all to hold on to Poetl right now. His trade value is as high as it'll ever be.

This I agree with...extract that value now..

[spurraider21]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10040458-windhorst-dejounte-murray-told-spurs-he-wouldnt-sign-contract-extension-this-summer

:lol Klutch did it again
nobody in his position would extend early though, thats not a reason to trade someone.

[baseline bum]

do people not know how the league runs? San Antonio will not keep any good players without overpaying. we have to embrace the chaos. Y'all act like we sent murray to a glue farm or something.

Keeping players like Murray on high salary is what makes you into a sacremento. The spurs will be smarter than OKC or process Philly, we can hope.

No, drafting Marvin Bagley ahead of Luka Doncic and Jimmer Fredette ahead of Klay Thompson and blowing a #8 pick on Nik Stauskas is what makes you into a Sacramento.

[3&D_TBH]

Poeltl most certainly gone. I'd expect Keldon gone. I'm not sure why they drafted anybody this year, tbh, they shoud have traded them for future assets.

The part I bolded is a bit extreme--almost pouty--isn't it? You sound as if no one in the Spurs record has a record of making ANY good choices as all. From a certain point of view, it could be said that the Spurs are betting on themselves to Identify better talent than Murray. I dig it. And I think they are capable. I'm sure people will call me a homer or whatever, but I'm not so sure that Dejounte and Trae are gonna shock and awe the league for the next years. Those unprotected picks in 3-4 years could just as easily be top picks given that the Hawks for sure don't have a recent history worth much at all. I'm not sold on the Hawks at all. Trae played terribly in these recent playoffs and DJ is not a max player. I think we are building a war chest, and we have a front office that knows how to use one. Also, there's the shot at Victor next year. No reason to jump off a cliff. Brahnam, Keldon, Vassell, Sochan, Primo, and Wesley, might just be good enough to stomp a mudhole in the Hawks asses by then as well. None of us know. That's why it's fun to watch and root. Cheers.

[baseline bum]

nobody in his position would extend early though, thats not a reason to trade someone.

Sounds like the Spurs expected a hometown discount and panicked when they found out they weren't going to get one and that Murray would be looking to get paid his market value. I wish him the best in Atlanta and hope they don't cheap out like it looks like the Spurs did. Get your money Dejounte.

[R. DeMurre]

Twitter is animated now with so many posts from fans of other teams assuming that Poeltl and KJ are there for the taking...

[rankingtear]

Better than the Jrue package. ATL overpayed because this could be a huge disaster for them.

[Robz4000]

Twitter is animated now with so many posts from fans of other teams assuming that Poeltl and KJ are there for the taking...

They are tbh. No one on this roster is untradeable.

[FkLA]

No, drafting Marvin Bagley ahead of Luka Doncic and Jimmer Fredette ahead of Klay Thompson and blowing a #8 pick on Nik Stauskas is what makes you into a Sacramento.

Honestly though, how hard is it to draft and develop a high usage fringe all-star? Or even to pay the max for one (which is what it would take to keep him in two yrs)?

There's a ton of them out there.

[3&D_TBH]

Poeltl most certainly gone. I'd expect Keldon gone. <strong>I'm not sure why they drafted anybody this year, tbh, they shoud have traded them for future assets.</strong><br><br>

The part I bolded is a bit extreme--almost pouty--isn't it? You sound as if no one in the Spurs organization has a record of making ANY good choices as all. From a certain point of view, it could be said that the Spurs are betting on themselves to identify better talent than Murray. I dig it. And I think they are capable. I'm sure people will call me a homer or whatever, but I'm not so sure that Dejounte and Trae are gonna shock and awe the league for the next few years. Those unprotected picks in 3-4 years could just as easily be top picks given that the Hawks for sure don't have a recent history worth much at all. I'm not sold on the Hawks at all. Trae played terribly in these recent playoffs and DJ is not a max player. I think we are building a war chest, and we have a front office that knows how to use one. Also, there's the shot at Victor W next year. No reason to jump off a cliff. Brahnam, Keldon, Vassell, Sochan, Primo, and Wesley, might just be good enough to stomp a mudhole in the Hawks asses by themselves by then as well. None of us know. That's why it's fun to watch and root. Cheers.&nbsp;<br>
<br>

[MannyIsGod]

I'm kinda shocked at how emotional people are honestly. I don't love this trade cause I loved DJM but I definitely don't think it's awful. Some of you melting down is kinda hilarious though.

Gonna enjoy watching the young guys again this year. Almost a new crew of youth.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm kinda shocked at how emotional people are honestly. I don't love this trade cause I loved DJM but I definitely don't think it's awful. Some of you melting down is kinda hilarious though.

Gonna enjoy watching the young guys again this year. Almost a new crew of youth.

[scott]

Prediction: Spurs +/- wins compared to last season will be less than 5, and it will have been revealed that as good as DJM was, his impact on outcomes wasn't as big as we all thought.

[Mr. Body]

The part I bolded is a bit extreme--almost pouty--isn't it? You sound as if no one in the Spurs record has a record of making ANY good choices as all. From a certain point of view, it could be said that the Spurs are betting on themselves to Identify better talent than Murray. I dig it. And I think they are capable. I'm sure people will call me a homer or whatever, but I'm not so sure that Dejounte and Trae are gonna shock and awe the league for the next years. Those unprotected picks in 3-4 years could just as easily be top picks given that the Hawks for sure don't have a recent history worth much at all. I'm not sold on the Hawks at all. Trae played terribly in these recent playoffs and DJ is not a max player. I think we are building a war chest, and we have a front office that knows how to use one. Also, there's the shot at Victor next year. No reason to jump off a cliff. Brahnam, Keldon, Vassell, Sochan, Primo, and Wesley, might just be good enough to stomp a mudhole in the Hawks asses by then as well. None of us know. That's why it's fun to watch and root. Cheers.

Yeah, you're a homer.

And I wish people would stop talking about a "shot at Victor next year." It's lame.

[WaitingforDavid]

Do the Spurs at present have any players they want to keep?
What kind of player would they want to keep?

Can't wait for them to develop Sochan into a young All-star so they can trade him away for mystery draft picks in the far distant future.

[vy65]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10040458-windhorst-dejounte-murray-told-spurs-he-wouldnt-sign-contract-extension-this-summer

:lol Klutch did it again

https://i.imgflip.com/1z2ofw.jpg

Someone needs to photoshop this with Diversity Hire GM as the blonde

[baseline bum]

Honestly though, how hard is it to draft and develop a high usage fringe all-star?

Pretty hard I'd say with picks in the 20s since Murray's the only one they have since Parker in 2001.

[CGD]

Murray would have been a moron to sign an extension early with how much of a pay cut it would have been from his market value. I understand trading him if he said he was going to walk in 2024 but being smart enough to not sign cheap in 2023 doesn't mean he's gone in 2024.

Exactly. It’s the one “downside” of getting him on a bargain on his first deal. We couldn’t offer him a more competitive extension now.

[baseline bum]

Prediction: Spurs +/- wins compared to last season will be less than 5, and it will have been revealed that as good as DJM was, his impact on outcomes wasn't as big as we all thought.

God I hope not. This team needs to win 15-20 games next year.

[vy65]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10040458-windhorst-dejounte-murray-told-spurs-he-wouldnt-sign-contract-extension-this-summer

:lol Klutch did it again

https://i.imgflip.com/1z2ofw.jpg

Someone needs to photoshop this with Diversity Hire GM as the blonde

[slick'81]

Prediction: Spurs +/- wins compared to last season will be less than 5, and it will have been revealed that as good as DJM was, his impact on outcomes wasn't as big as we all thought.


want to put some money on it?

[SpurSpike]

It feels gross that the Spurs dumped DJ like that.

Patfo got drunk on hearing "unprotected"... When it probably wont even matter.

I thought the Spurs were ran differently. This seems cold tbh. Spurs are basically saying fuck off DJ and betting he fails to then turn around and then reap the benefits of those failures! Kinda evil...

[baseline bum]

I'm kinda shocked at how emotional people are honestly. I don't love this trade cause I loved DJM but I definitely don't think it's awful. Some of you melting down is kinda hilarious though.

Gonna enjoy watching the young guys again this year. Almost a new crew of youth.

The Charlotte pick being somewhat likely to convert into two seconds is the part that really sticks for me.

[Mr. Body]

My feeling is the Spurs aren't even tanking. This wasn't a tank move.

[Kurik]

It feels gross that the Spurs dumped DJ like that.

Patfo got drunk on hearing "unprotected"... When it probably wont even matter.

I thought the Spurs were ran differently. This seems cold tbh. Spurs are basically saying fuck off DJ and betting he fails to then turn around and then reap the benefits of those failures! Kinda evil...

You make it sound like the Spurs dumped DJ into the wilderness. DJ is happy with how the Spurs handled it lol.

[spurraider21]

Twitter is animated now with so many posts from fans of other teams assuming that Poeltl and KJ are there for the taking...
they should be there for the taking. what the hell are we doing sitting on poeltl? he's a good center on a nice cheap deal this year. what good do we have for that if our objective is not making the playoffs this year? are we really going to pay this guy 4/60 at the end of the year or something more than that? unlikely. get what you can for him.

[DPG21920]

How many teams haven't been to the lottery at all in the past three years? Eight. Only four have made the playoffs five times in a row, and only one has done it more than six times. It's actually not very likely that Atlanta will avoid conveying a lotto pick three years in a row to SA. Spurs fans don't tend to appreciate it for obvious reasons, but franchises tend not to be stable. In order for Atlanta to both benefit from the trade and avoid giving the Spurs a lotto pick, they'd have to make the playoffs seven years in a row. That's extremely unlikely. Right off the bat, the picks have more value than some people might fear.

Unprotected picks also allow the Spurs to trade way more of their assets that they could before. For example, the Spurs could trade each of their natural picks from 2024 all the way to 2028 without having to worry about the Stepien rule. That's not a huge thing now, but obviously it can be down the road. Those 2026 and 2028 picks are also enhanced because they come with swap rights. You're not betting on the Spurs being bad; you're betting on at least one of the Spurs or Hawks/Celtics being bad. Those are much better odds, which removes much of the downsides of the pick while adding upside. The Spurs are also able to use the unprotected firsts for swaps instead of their natural picks. So if they make another trade that involves a ton of picks coming from a team, they can, instead of offering a swap between their pick and that other team's pick, they can get the two best of their pick, ATL's pick and the new team's pick. That almost happened last year, when the Rockets barely avoided OKC being able to swap Houston's pick with Boston's that year.

There are 17 unprotected picks/swaps in the NBA right now, and the Spurs have three of them. And this is not counting Boston's top-1 protected swap. They are a rare commodity, and SA is probably third behind OKC and NOP in terms of their collection, and they've been doing this for less than a year. It's why I was telling folks to not freak out about the Spurs "not picking a direction" two years ago. It's easy to collect assets when you're rebuilding. They weren't going to miss their chance just because guys like Gay, Mills and even LMA didn't get moved for value.

As I said in another post, I think things were significantly rockier between Murray and the Spurs than we knew. Credit goes out to DJM and Klutch for keeping everything in house, and I don't think there's bad blood or anything. But I don't think the front office saw him the same way as the marketing team did. I don't think they believe him leaving is the blow a lot of us perceived it as. They MIGHT miss out on a higher return if he has another All-Star season. But they might've missed out on three years of complete control of another team's picks if Murray didn't put it together or if the buyers moved on or had bad starts to the season. I'm all about leverage and hope the Spurs did everything they could to bring in OO too, but I also understand why they wanted to do this cleanly and move on.


Agree with all of this mostly, but I’m a simple man, Chinook. You dont trade young all stars under contract and walk away with ZERO short term wins from the trade. Bottom line, boiled down, even agreeing big picture as I said on the direction and upside and strategy. Nothing, IMO, changes that evaluation of the trade in isolation.

B- trade now, with potential for it to be A+ if any of what you said pans out and SA truly gets great value for the picks (directly or via more moves in aggregate).

They did right by Murray, ok by themselves and I do think trading for DeRozan was a huge mistake and not being aggressive on traders for LMA/Rudy/Mills when they had more value does hurt some (but its nitpicking to a degree).

SA finally did some of the things Ive been asking so I am happy with the progress they have shown; my confidence in Wright has been established I would say and they have a grasp on modern small market nba so thats good.

Everyone handled it professionally and it definitely led to a win-win-ish scenario. I just dont like trading all stars and needing to rely on mis-fortune to come out clearly ahead. It should be all be guaranteed you come out ahead clearly.

To the point I wonder what the other trade was with the team offering the “attractive young player and 3 firsts”. I would personally can see me wanting to have a very good young player and 3 lottery protected firsts depending on the player vs this from ATL.

It’s a lot of picks and they are placing their bets on the unprotected future picks over all else…we will see if that gamble pays off

[rascal]

My feeling is the Spurs aren't even tanking. This wasn't a tank move.

Yes they are.

You'll see no huge FA incoming that will mess up the tank.

[spurraider21]

remember when we all thought the Murray/White backcourt was going to be amazing? :lol

[DPG21920]

I'm kinda shocked at how emotional people are honestly. I don't love this trade cause I loved DJM but I definitely don't think it's awful. Some of you melting down is kinda hilarious though.

Gonna enjoy watching the young guys again this year. Almost a new crew of youth.

Dude, I agree but I just want the spurs to not muck this up. They did the hard part - dont ruin it by not trading Jakob, Doug and Richardson and using cap space on McDermott like guys just to win 30 games instead of 20.

Bottom out and lets us watch the young guys blossom more etc..

[mystargtr34]

I said a couple days ago I was in the trade Murray camp, so I kind of like the deal tbh. I expected the Spurs to start discussions at three 1sts + two 1st swaps with minimal or no protections. They ended up getting the three 1sts but only one of the swaps with no protections on two of the 1sts.

Ultimately I think it came down to a combination of the Spurs not really wanting to max out Murray in two years, not being able to find an avenue to put a superstar (or perennial All-Star) next to him to vault them to being a contender, and also Murray wanting to play with another superstar. So the trade was kind of mutual.

Could the Spurs have gotten more? Maybe, but I also trust they got more than just the Hawks offer (as timvp said), and ultimately let the market set the price and took the best offer. If you wait until after this off-season Murrays value starts declining imo.

I don't really get the uproar on here either, the Spurs were a 34 win team last season with Murray fully healthy. And they got dominated in the play-in game against a decent Pelicans team where Murray went 5-19. Ok the play in game is one game, but the season wasn't one game. You can argue a big reason why the Spurs only won 34 games was because of roster imbalance, no PF etc. and that they would have improved with some roster additions. Thats true to an extent but how much improvement can you get through the draft and via trade with the assets the Spurs have. Sochan is a great pick but he's not going to catapult the Spurs from a 34 win team to a 50 win team in his first few years. By that time the Spurs would have to max out Murray. Maybe the Spurs could have traded Jakob and a pick for OG Anunoby to put next to Murray, but maybe the Raps wanted more than the Spurs could offer. Does OG Anunoby really get you from 34 wins to 50 wins? Maybe the Spurs could have signed Ayton to pair with Murray, but does that team win more than 45 games and get bounced in the 1st round, and in two years you'll be paying Ayton and Murray a combined $70m assuming Murray is maxed.

I love Murray, and was ok with keeping him and enjoying a potential 40-45 win season with him leading the young guys. But that would have ultimately led to another play-in game or 1st round exit at best.

[rankingtear]

Any insight on to why the spurs would consider trading him? Klutch sports? Extension?

Max they can give him in an extension this year is 19 mil next year is 22. So zero chance he accepts. That is the downside of that cheap contract, he is flight risk. That gives us a 1 year window to build a playoff team with him.

[FkLA]

Pretty hard I'd say with picks in the 20s since Murray's the only one they have since Parker in 2001.

Can't really bring up rookies during the Big 3 era, imo. I doubt Murray develops into the player he is today if he is drafted 10 years earlier. The usage just wouldn't have been there. And the current crop is still TBD. It took Murray 6 years.

And if you can't develop one, just max one out. It really isn't this devastating blow. He's a great complimentary piece for a team looking for that final puzzle piece but the Spurs are so far away from being able to utilize him in that ideal way.

[rascal]

I said a couple days ago I was in the trade Murray camp, so I kind of like the deal tbh. I expected the Spurs to start discussions at three 1sts + two 1st swaps with minimal or no protections. They ended up getting the three 1sts but only one of the swaps with no protections on two of the 1sts.

Ultimately I think it came down to a combination of the Spurs not really wanting to max out Murray in two years, not being able to find an avenue to put a superstar (or perennial All-Star) next to him to vault them to being a contender, and also Murray wanting to play with another superstar. So the trade was kind of mutual.

Could the Spurs have gotten more? Maybe, but I also trust they got more than just the Hawks offer (as timvp said), and ultimately let the market set the price and took the best offer. If you wait until after this off-season Murrays value starts declining imo.

I don't really get the uproar on here either, the Spurs were a 34 win team last season with Murray fully healthy. And they got dominated in the play-in game against a decent Pelicans team where Murray went 5-19. Ok the play in game is one game, but the season wasn't one game. You can argue a big reason why the Spurs only won 34 games was because of roster imbalance, no PF etc. and that they would have improved with some roster additions. Thats true to an extent but how much improvement can you get through the draft and via trade with the assets the Spurs have. Sochan is a great pick but he's not going to catapult the Spurs from a 34 win team to a 50 win team in his first few years. By that time the Spurs would have to max out Murray. Maybe the Spurs could have traded Jakob and a pick for OG Anunoby to put next to Murray, but maybe the Raps wanted more than the Spurs could offer. Does OG Anunoby really get you from 34 wins to 50 wins? Maybe the Spurs could have signed Ayton to pair with Murray, but does that team win more than 45 games and get bounced in the 1st round, and in two years you'll be paying Ayton and Murray a combined $70m assuming Murray is maxed.

I love Murray, and was ok with keeping him and enjoying a potential 40-45 win season with him leading the young guys. But that would have ultimately led to another play-in game or 1st round exit at best.

I don't think the Spurs could have gotten more. They were talking to other teams and weren't getting unprotected pick offers so the Atlanta deal was the best.

[DPG21920]

The Charlotte pick being somewhat likely to convert into two seconds is the part that really sticks for me.

Agreed. I dont think SA nets a first from CHA which is super frustrating. They should have held firm on getting OO instead of this CHA pick. If it conveys I will be very happy.

[Chinook]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10040458-windhorst-dejounte-murray-told-spurs-he-wouldnt-sign-contract-extension-this-summer

:lol Klutch did it again

It's important to know that Windhorst is either lying, or Klutch antagonistic for no reason. Murray couldn't sign a contract this year.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q51


58. Can existing contracts be extended?

Contracts for fewer than three seasons may not be extended. Longer contracts can be extended under certain circumstances:

Type of contract
Can be extended


Three and four seasons
Second anniversary after contract signed1


Five and six seasons
Third anniversary after contract signed1


Extended contracts
Second anniversary after extension signed2, if the extension lengthened the contract to three or four seasons (including any remaining seasons on the existing contract). If the extension lengthened the contract to five or six seasons (including any remaining seasons on the existing contract), it can be extended on the third anniversary after extension signed.


Renegotiated contracts
Third anniversary after renegotiation signed, if a salary was renegotiated upward by more than 10%


Rookie scale contracts
From the end of the July Moratorium to the day before the start of the regular season preceding the player's last option season3



...

Veteran extensions:Note: certain players (called Designated Veterans) can receive longer and more lucrative extensions than described here, if they meet specific service, tenure and performance criteria. Designated Veteran Extensions are covered in question number 24 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q24).Extensions to contracts that are not rookie scale contracts (i.e., veteran extensions) may be signed up to June 30, the day before the player would have become a free agent. However, an extension cannot be signed starting on the first day of the regular season and through June 30 if more than one season remains on the contract (in other words if more than one season remains, they have to complete an extension before the season starts, or otherwise wait until the last season of the contract).

The bolded parts are the important parts.

Murray's third anniversary from his extension is 10/22/2022. The first day of the season this year is 10/18/2022 (for various reasons, the regular season is expected to begin on that date rather than 10/25, but I actually wasn't able to determine for sure). Because the Spurs waited until the last minute, Murray's window won't open up until after the end of the regular season. I mentioned this a couple of days ago when lamenting the team's inability to renegotiate and extend him. But it's not okay for Klutch to not know an extension wasn't possible in the first place. Maybe they didn't but I think it's something that "seems like it would be true" more than it was actually true. If that did happen, it is a pointless bit of thorniness considering that the extension is most likely impossible.

[Mr. Body]

Yes they are.

You'll see no huge FA incoming that will mess up the tank.

That has nothing to do with whether the team is tanking. A huge FA was stupid anyway.

[BatManu20]

God I hope not. This team needs to win 15-20 games next year.

This. I swear to God if we’re battling for the play-in again next season… :lol

[Chinook]

The Charlotte pick being somewhat likely to convert into two seconds is the part that really sticks for me.

It's more likely to convert than not. The Hornets have their own All-Star PG and are trying to win. It's not likely they miss the playoffs three years in a row. The Spurs can help them out by trading them Poeltl, though.

[exstatic]

Any insight on to why the spurs would consider trading him? Klutch sports? Extension?

Don’t think DJ would sign an extension. He’d want a complete new contract in 2024, and he wouldn’t be signing for 4/$64M again.

[DPG21920]

It's more likely to convert than not. The Hornets have their own All-Star PG and are trying to win. It's not likely they miss the playoffs three years in a row. The Spurs can help them out by trading them Poeltl, though.

I would trade them Jakob for just salary filler IF they simply agreed to alter the protections on their pick we have to top 3 protected only.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Twitter is animated now with so many posts from fans of other teams assuming that Poeltl and KJ are there for the taking...

I guess other teams see us as some broke dick version of Ted Septien's Cleveland Cavs team.

[rascal]

It's more likely to convert than not. The Hornets have their own All-Star PG and are trying to win. It's not likely they miss the playoffs three years in a row. The Spurs can help them out by trading them Poeltl, though.

Send them Poeltl for them to lift the protections on the pick the Spurs have.

[exstatic]

It's more likely to convert than not. The Hornets have their own All-Star PG and are trying to win. It's not likely they miss the playoffs three years in a row. The Spurs can help them out by trading them Poeltl, though.

Steve Clifford just took the reins again, and he’s pretty good at getting them to the playoffs. Four times in 8 years, and more importantly, never missed 3 years in a row.

[Robz4000]

It's important to know that Windhorst is either lying, or Klutch antagonistic for no reason. Murray couldn't sign a contract this year.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q51



The bolded parts are the important parts.

Murray's third anniversary from his extension is 10/22/2022. The first day of the season this year is 10/18/2022 (for various reasons, the regular season is expected to begin on that date rather than 10/25, but I actually wasn't able to determine for sure). Because the Spurs waited until the last minute, Murray's window won't open up until after the end of the regular season. I mentioned this a couple of days ago when lamenting the team's inability to renegotiate and extend him. But it's not okay for Klutch to not know an extension wasn't possible in the first place. Maybe they didn't but I think it's something that "seems like it would be true" more than it was actually true. If that did happen, it is a pointless bit of thorniness considering that the extension is most likely impossible.

I remember you mentioning that too, which is why I thought it was weird. Honestly feel like this was Klutch manipulating the situation to get Murray to a more desirable market/situation. I know the Marcus Morris debacle wasn't entirely their fault but this feels like some underhanded shit.

[Silverheart80]

I'm glad they didn't trade him for another on-the-cusp all star player who'd just continue the trend of pathetic mediocrity and would fuck up their cap space.

Agree.

[R. DeMurre]

We've come a long way from just about 75 days ago when anyone suggesting that the Spurs should avoid the play in game in order to secure a lottery pick was labeled as having a "loser mentality" or being a "negative nancy." Now, a full on tank is embraced as the most reasonable and sensible way forward. It might be, and I'm not even too hot or cold on the Dejounte move, but it's interesting how fast the moods of the uber opinionated change. San Antonio is essentially OKC now, which is a look I'm not a fan of, but probably more for aesthetic than practical reasons.

[Chinook]

I remember you mentioning that too, which is why I thought it was weird. Honestly feel like this was Klutch manipulating the situation to get Murray to a more desirable market/situation. I know the Marcus Morris debacle wasn't entirely their fault but this feels like some underhanded shit.

If we believe Windhorst, I do think it's possible that Klutch came up to the Spurs and mentioned Murray wanted to hold off on discussions on an extension until the next season. I just think that the Spurs almost certainly didn't count on being able to give him that extension in the first place. They maybe have interpreted the interaction (again assuming it happened) as Murray wanting out. But this makes it less likely they traded him for money. Next season, it would have been a big deal. This season, at most it just let the Spurs know Murray wasn't against moving. It would not have been hard at all to explain the CBA to Klutch and remove any chance the sides could have hard feelings over the contract this season.

[gilmor2002]

the real problem is that they are no (prob zero in current days) all-star NBA players like Tim, Manu or Parker; who take less for more.

[baseline bum]

Can't really bring up rookies during the Big 3 era, imo. I doubt Murray develops into the player he is today if he is drafted 10 years earlier. The usage just wouldn't have been there. And the current crop is still TBD. It took Murray 6 years.

And if you can't develop one, just max one out. It really isn't this devastating blow. He's a great complimentary piece for a team looking for that final puzzle piece but the Spurs are so far away from being able to utilize him in that ideal way.

Aldridge is still the only high level FA signing this team has ever made. Fact is this is not a market FAs want to go to and having max capspace requires a ton of planning ahead.

[baseline bum]

It's more likely to convert than not. The Hornets have their own All-Star PG and are trying to win. It's not likely they miss the playoffs three years in a row. The Spurs can help them out by trading them Poeltl, though.

Meh you have way more faith in Jordan than I do.

[daslicer]

the real problem is that they are no (prob zero in current days) all-star NBA players like Tim, Manu or Parker; who take less for more.

Yup this is my concern regarding the Spurs which is they are never going to be able to retain their future star players for cheap like they did with the big 3. Those days are over. If the Spurs are fortunate to be in position to be contenders again in the future, I wonder how big their window will be since they are cheap when it comes to retaining star players.

[cd98]

Anyone have Kevin Pelton breakdown of trade on ESPN plus?

[baseline bum]

the real problem is that they are no (prob zero in current days) all-star NBA players like Tim, Manu or Parker; who take less for more.

Do you take a paycut at work? Why should Dejounte?

[Mr. Body]

Aldridge is still the only high level FA signing this team has ever made. Fact is this is not a market FAs want to go to and having max capspace requires a ton of planning ahead.

Shouldn't we consider Michael Finley a pretty significant FA signing?

[John B]

Don’t think DJ would sign an extension. He’d want a complete new contract in 2024, and he wouldn’t be signing for 4/$64M again.

He’d be asking for the Max. It needs no spelling it. DJ will be gone and the Spurs did their diligence to salvage what they can get from him. I’m just glad DJ worked with the Spurs to get a full return instead of doing the nephew (no reason to). And the silver lining is that the Spurs NEED to rebuild. DJ’s game is flawed. He is not the tier 1 player to build on. It’s best to get the most FRP’s and roll to get a high lottery pick hoping to get a Tier 1 to build on. Or it’s still possible that a disgruntled player wants out and those FRP’s could be handy. Just the same, it’s not DJ and it’s better to rebuild now.

[kjhip1]

Anyone have Kevin Pelton breakdown of trade on ESPN plus?

Kevin Pelton
ESPN Senior Writer

"How will Dejounte Murray fit alongside Trae Young with the Atlanta Hawks?

The Hawks made the biggest addition of the NBA offseason to date on Wednesday, sending three first-round picks -- two of them unprotected, per ESPN's Zach Lowe -- and a pick swap to the San Antonio Spurs in exchange for Murray, chosen as an NBA All-Star for the first time last season at age 25.

Having played point guard in San Antonio, Murray will be an interesting fit next to Young in the Atlanta backcourt. An All-Defensive second-team pick in 2017-18, Murray will undoubtedly be an upgrade at that end of the court for a Hawks team that ranked 26th in defensive rating last season -- worst of anyone to make the playoffs.

On the other side, the Spurs are dealing Murray at the peak of his value with two years remaining on his inexpensive contract. San Antonio's roster is now built around six first-round picks from the past three drafts, including three this year, with more on the way.

Let's break down what this trade means for both teams.

The deal
Hawks get:
Dejounte Murray

Spurs get:
Danilo Gallinari
2023 first-round pick (via Charlotte Hornets)
2025 first-round pick
2027 first-round pick
Future pick swap with Atlanta

Atlanta Hawks: C
Adding Murray will surely revive the age-old question of how the Hawks can utilize Young's shooting without constantly having the ball in his hands. Young's 8.7 minutes per game time of possession ranked third highest in the NBA, per Second Spectrum tracking on NBA Advanced Stats; and the 3,730 pick-and-rolls he ran, according to Second Spectrum, were 11% more than the next-highest player (Luka Doncic).

Building a heliocentric offense around Young has produced great regular-season results for Atlanta, which ranked second behind the Utah Jazz in offensive rating in 2021-22. Come playoff time, however, Young struggled as the primary option against the aggressive defense of the Miami Heat, averaging just 15.4 points per game on 32% shooting with more turnovers (31) than assists (30).

Given Young powered the Hawks' surprising run to the Eastern Conference finals in 2020-21, the question isn't whether he can succeed in the playoffs. It's whether putting so much offensive responsibility in his hands maximizes his value to Atlanta against the best defenses. Enter Murray, another high-volume ball handler who ranked sixth overall in pick-and-rolls (2,608) and seventh in time of possession (7.4 MPG).

When pairings like this have succeeded, it's typically because both players are also off-ball threats. Think Chris Paul with either James Harden in Houston (at least the first season) or Devin Booker in Phoenix. That doesn't describe Murray, a 33% career 3-point shooter who is better in catch-and-shoot situations (36% last season, per Second Spectrum) but still below average.

It also hasn't described Young, who has the shooting chops to succeed in that role (he hit a sizzling 45% of his catch-and-shoot 3s in 2021-22, 11th among players with at least 50 such attempts) but rarely plays it. He took just 86 catch-and-shoot 3s all season. The 83% of Young's field goals that were unassisted last season was fourth highest among players who made at least 250, per NBA Advanced Stats. Murray again wasn't far behind at 73% (11th in that group).

The obvious comparison when we talk about Young being more of an off-ball threat is Stephen Curry, the deep-shooting, undersized guard who has always been a reference point for Young. As Golden State Warriors coach Steve Kerr recently pointed out on the Lowe Post, that's possible partly because Curry played shooting guard his first two years at Davidson, requiring him to work on the movement necessary to get open without the ball. Unlike Curry, Young has always had the ball in his hands as he developed.

Ultimately, the comparison is unfair because Curry's combination of ballhandling and ability to wreck a defense with off-ball movement is unparalleled throughout NBA history. The Hawks don't need Young to be Curry. They just need Young to be active enough to keep defenses engaged and allow Murray room to operate with the ball in his hands.

There are two clear wins from this deal for Atlanta.

The first is defensively. Although Murray hasn't quite reached his All-Defensive peak since returning from an ACL tear in the 2018 preseason, he generates steals at a high rate and is an excellent defensive rebounder for a guard. Murray is capable of taking on the tougher defensive assignment in the backcourt, allowing Young to hide on less threatening opponents.

Additionally, the Hawks should have more hope of surviving the minutes Young spends on the bench, allowing him to get more rest. After finding a successful formula for the second unit built around Bogdan Bogdanovic in the second half of the 2020-21 season, Atlanta again struggled to score without Young last season. The team's offensive rating dropped by 10 points per 100 possessions with Young on the bench.

To some extent, I think those issues are inevitable with an offense built so much around a single player, but the Hawks will have an All-Star point guard on the court at all times now and (hopefully) won't be as reliant on Young.

Despite Murray having one of the league's better contracts -- paying him like a midtier starting point guard ($16.6 million this season and $17.7 million in 2023-24) -- adding him will still be costly because Atlanta used Danilo Gallinari's partially guaranteed salary to match it rather than that of one of the team's core players, such as forward John Collins.


By waiving Gallinari today, the Hawks could have ducked the luxury tax this season. Instead, they'll start free agency over the projected tax line before filling out their roster. Atlanta will be hard-pressed to get out by the deadline because there's so little fat to trim. All eight players making more than $3.5 million this season will be part of the Hawks' rotation.

Although adding Murray is an upgrade for Atlanta, I'm not sure it puts the Hawks in the projected top half of the East playoff standings. I'd still have them behind the Boston Celtics, Heat, Milwaukee Bucks and Philadelphia 76ers, pending additional moves this offseason. And that's where you start to wonder about the price.

As Lowe argued, giving up three first-round picks for a player on a value contract makes sense if that player gets a team to a crucial new level. The Bucks surely don't regret shelling out even more swaps and picks for Jrue Holiday after Holiday immediately helped them win a championship. But there's more room here for the Hawks to second-guess this deal.

Giving up two unprotected picks has the benefit of providing Atlanta a little flexibility to trade additional first-rounders. The Hawks can, at the moment, trade their own picks in 2023 and 2029. The downside is there's no parachute if the Hawks' future goes worse than planned. (Say, by Murray leaving as an unrestricted free agent in 2024 because his low salary makes an extension unrealistic.) Even the pick swap in 2026 in between the two first-rounders is unprotected, per ESPN's Tim Bontemps.

Atlanta is betting big on Murray fitting with Young. For the team's future, that bet better be correct.

San Antonio Spurs: A
I understand if Spurs fans are disappointed about trading an All-Star who won't turn 26 until September and has two years left on his contract. However, the value San Antonio got in return would have been difficult to turn down. As Murray moved toward unrestricted free agency and either bumping up his salary near the max or heading elsewhere, his trade value would have diminished rapidly.

By pushing the two picks from the Hawks three years into the future, the Spurs both increased the chances of those having lottery upside and timed them to land just as San Antonio's remaining young core should start paying dividends. In addition, the Spurs will get an extra first-round pick as early as next year from the Hornets that Atlanta got in the Cam Reddish deal.

For now, San Antonio's best pick is probably the team's own in 2023. It's worth remembering that the Spurs' decades of success started when a gap season due to injuries (primarily star center David Robinson) was rewarded by winning the Tim Duncan sweepstakes. I don't think it's fair to say at this point that French center Victor Wembanyama or G League Ignite guard Scoot Henderson (the projected top two picks in the recent 2023 mock draft from ESPN's Jonathan Givony) are at that level, but San Antonio can hope for a similar outcome.

There is still young talent on hand, led by the duo of Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell. Those young players will likely struggle with the increased offensive responsibility created by Murray's departure, but those growing pains could pay off in the long term. The Spurs also should be able to find minutes for all three of this year's first-round picks: guards Malaki Branham and Blake Wesley and forward Jeremy Sochan.

Pending a possible buyout for Gallinari, San Antonio could still create more than $25 million in cap space. That wouldn't be enough at the moment to make a max offer sheet to Suns center Deandre Ayton, but the Spurs could surely get there if they want to envision Ayton as the centerpiece of their rebuild. Alternatively, San Antonio could continue the slow build by using the room to take unwanted contracts from other teams."

[Degoat]

Anyone have Kevin Pelton breakdown of trade on ESPN plus?

San Antonio Spurs: Ahttps://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png?w=110&h=110I understand if Spurs fans are disappointed about trading an All-Star who won't turn 26 until September and has two years left on his contract. However, the value San Antonio got in return would have been difficult to turn down. As Murray moved toward unrestricted free agency and either bumping up his salary near the max or heading elsewhere, his trade value would have diminished rapidly.
By pushing the two picks from the Hawks three years into the future, the Spurs both increased the chances of those having lottery upside and timed them to land just as San Antonio's remaining young core should start paying dividends. In addition, the Spurs will get an extra first-round pick as early as next year from the Hornets that Atlanta got in the Cam Reddish (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395627/cam-reddish) deal.

[daslicer]

Shouldn't we consider Michael Finley a pretty significant FA signing?

I would say no since he only joined the Spurs since they were contenders and plus, he was a little bit past his prime when he joined the Spurs.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/1542342784358572032

[Mr. Body]

Kevin Pelton
ESPN Senior Writer

"How will Dejounte Murray fit alongside Trae Young with the Atlanta Hawks?

The Hawks made the biggest addition of the NBA offseason to date on Wednesday, sending three first-round picks -- two of them unprotected, per ESPN's Zach Lowe -- and a pick swap to the San Antonio Spurs in exchange for Murray, chosen as an NBA All-Star for the first time last season at age 25.

Having played point guard in San Antonio, Murray will be an interesting fit next to Young in the Atlanta backcourt. An All-Defensive second-team pick in 2017-18, Murray will undoubtedly be an upgrade at that end of the court for a Hawks team that ranked 26th in defensive rating last season -- worst of anyone to make the playoffs.

On the other side, the Spurs are dealing Murray at the peak of his value with two years remaining on his inexpensive contract. San Antonio's roster is now built around six first-round picks from the past three drafts, including three this year, with more on the way.

Let's break down what this trade means for both teams.

The deal
Hawks get:
Dejounte Murray

Spurs get:
Danilo Gallinari
2023 first-round pick (via Charlotte Hornets)
2025 first-round pick
2027 first-round pick
Future pick swap with Atlanta

Atlanta Hawks: C
Adding Murray will surely revive the age-old question of how the Hawks can utilize Young's shooting without constantly having the ball in his hands. Young's 8.7 minutes per game time of possession ranked third highest in the NBA, per Second Spectrum tracking on NBA Advanced Stats; and the 3,730 pick-and-rolls he ran, according to Second Spectrum, were 11% more than the next-highest player (Luka Doncic).

Building a heliocentric offense around Young has produced great regular-season results for Atlanta, which ranked second behind the Utah Jazz in offensive rating in 2021-22. Come playoff time, however, Young struggled as the primary option against the aggressive defense of the Miami Heat, averaging just 15.4 points per game on 32% shooting with more turnovers (31) than assists (30).

Given Young powered the Hawks' surprising run to the Eastern Conference finals in 2020-21, the question isn't whether he can succeed in the playoffs. It's whether putting so much offensive responsibility in his hands maximizes his value to Atlanta against the best defenses. Enter Murray, another high-volume ball handler who ranked sixth overall in pick-and-rolls (2,608) and seventh in time of possession (7.4 MPG).

When pairings like this have succeeded, it's typically because both players are also off-ball threats. Think Chris Paul with either James Harden in Houston (at least the first season) or Devin Booker in Phoenix. That doesn't describe Murray, a 33% career 3-point shooter who is better in catch-and-shoot situations (36% last season, per Second Spectrum) but still below average.

It also hasn't described Young, who has the shooting chops to succeed in that role (he hit a sizzling 45% of his catch-and-shoot 3s in 2021-22, 11th among players with at least 50 such attempts) but rarely plays it. He took just 86 catch-and-shoot 3s all season. The 83% of Young's field goals that were unassisted last season was fourth highest among players who made at least 250, per NBA Advanced Stats. Murray again wasn't far behind at 73% (11th in that group).

The obvious comparison when we talk about Young being more of an off-ball threat is Stephen Curry, the deep-shooting, undersized guard who has always been a reference point for Young. As Golden State Warriors coach Steve Kerr recently pointed out on the Lowe Post, that's possible partly because Curry played shooting guard his first two years at Davidson, requiring him to work on the movement necessary to get open without the ball. Unlike Curry, Young has always had the ball in his hands as he developed.

Ultimately, the comparison is unfair because Curry's combination of ballhandling and ability to wreck a defense with off-ball movement is unparalleled throughout NBA history. The Hawks don't need Young to be Curry. They just need Young to be active enough to keep defenses engaged and allow Murray room to operate with the ball in his hands.

There are two clear wins from this deal for Atlanta.

The first is defensively. Although Murray hasn't quite reached his All-Defensive peak since returning from an ACL tear in the 2018 preseason, he generates steals at a high rate and is an excellent defensive rebounder for a guard. Murray is capable of taking on the tougher defensive assignment in the backcourt, allowing Young to hide on less threatening opponents.

Additionally, the Hawks should have more hope of surviving the minutes Young spends on the bench, allowing him to get more rest. After finding a successful formula for the second unit built around Bogdan Bogdanovic in the second half of the 2020-21 season, Atlanta again struggled to score without Young last season. The team's offensive rating dropped by 10 points per 100 possessions with Young on the bench.

To some extent, I think those issues are inevitable with an offense built so much around a single player, but the Hawks will have an All-Star point guard on the court at all times now and (hopefully) won't be as reliant on Young.

Despite Murray having one of the league's better contracts -- paying him like a midtier starting point guard ($16.6 million this season and $17.7 million in 2023-24) -- adding him will still be costly because Atlanta used Danilo Gallinari's partially guaranteed salary to match it rather than that of one of the team's core players, such as forward John Collins.


By waiving Gallinari today, the Hawks could have ducked the luxury tax this season. Instead, they'll start free agency over the projected tax line before filling out their roster. Atlanta will be hard-pressed to get out by the deadline because there's so little fat to trim. All eight players making more than $3.5 million this season will be part of the Hawks' rotation.

Although adding Murray is an upgrade for Atlanta, I'm not sure it puts the Hawks in the projected top half of the East playoff standings. I'd still have them behind the Boston Celtics, Heat, Milwaukee Bucks and Philadelphia 76ers, pending additional moves this offseason. And that's where you start to wonder about the price.

As Lowe argued, giving up three first-round picks for a player on a value contract makes sense if that player gets a team to a crucial new level. The Bucks surely don't regret shelling out even more swaps and picks for Jrue Holiday after Holiday immediately helped them win a championship. But there's more room here for the Hawks to second-guess this deal.

Giving up two unprotected picks has the benefit of providing Atlanta a little flexibility to trade additional first-rounders. The Hawks can, at the moment, trade their own picks in 2023 and 2029. The downside is there's no parachute if the Hawks' future goes worse than planned. (Say, by Murray leaving as an unrestricted free agent in 2024 because his low salary makes an extension unrealistic.) Even the pick swap in 2026 in between the two first-rounders is unprotected, per ESPN's Tim Bontemps.

Atlanta is betting big on Murray fitting with Young. For the team's future, that bet better be correct.

San Antonio Spurs: A
I understand if Spurs fans are disappointed about trading an All-Star who won't turn 26 until September and has two years left on his contract. However, the value San Antonio got in return would have been difficult to turn down. As Murray moved toward unrestricted free agency and either bumping up his salary near the max or heading elsewhere, his trade value would have diminished rapidly.

By pushing the two picks from the Hawks three years into the future, the Spurs both increased the chances of those having lottery upside and timed them to land just as San Antonio's remaining young core should start paying dividends. In addition, the Spurs will get an extra first-round pick as early as next year from the Hornets that Atlanta got in the Cam Reddish deal.

For now, San Antonio's best pick is probably the team's own in 2023. It's worth remembering that the Spurs' decades of success started when a gap season due to injuries (primarily star center David Robinson) was rewarded by winning the Tim Duncan sweepstakes. I don't think it's fair to say at this point that French center Victor Wembanyama or G League Ignite guard Scoot Henderson (the projected top two picks in the recent 2023 mock draft from ESPN's Jonathan Givony) are at that level, but San Antonio can hope for a similar outcome.

There is still young talent on hand, led by the duo of Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell. Those young players will likely struggle with the increased offensive responsibility created by Murray's departure, but those growing pains could pay off in the long term. The Spurs also should be able to find minutes for all three of this year's first-round picks: guards Malaki Branham and Blake Wesley and forward Jeremy Sochan.

Pending a possible buyout for Gallinari, San Antonio could still create more than $25 million in cap space. That wouldn't be enough at the moment to make a max offer sheet to Suns center Deandre Ayton, but the Spurs could surely get there if they want to envision Ayton as the centerpiece of their rebuild. Alternatively, San Antonio could continue the slow build by using the room to take unwanted contracts from other teams."

1. Seriously doubt Ayton has ever been on the Spurs' minds.

2. At this point, I reall don't think the Spurs consider themselves tanking. At all. They've pared a significant branch off the Bonzai tree, but they feel they have enough left to grow in. If we see them punt Poeltl and others, this changes.

3. There's some calculation here that this writer is picking up on: the Spurs may feel like the Hawks are still a problematic team. I agree. It's hard to imagine them leaping too far in the Eastern Conference rankings. Not just that Trae and Dejounte are an awkward fit, but their entire roster is awkward.

[slick'81]

1. Seriously doubt Ayton has ever been on the Spurs' minds.

2. At this point, I reall don't think the Spurs consider themselves tanking. At all. They've pared a significant branch off the Bonzai tree, but they feel they have enough left to grow in. If we see them punt Poeltl and others, this changes.

3. There's some calculation here that this writer is picking up on: the Spurs may feel like the Hawks are still a problematic team. I agree. It's hard to imagine them leaping too far in the Eastern Conference rankings. Not just that Trae and Dejounte are an awkward fit, but their entire roster is awkward.


the hawks made the playoffs this season . They improved immensely and arent al of a sudden a lottery team

[rascal]

Shouldn't we consider Michael Finley a pretty significant FA signing?

No, Finley was getting over the hill.

[Mr. Body]

No, Finley was getting over the hill.

Nah, you're dumb.

[MannyIsGod]

I would trade them Jakob for just salary filler IF they simply agreed to alter the protections on their pick we have to top 3 protected only.
But they're are a much better team with Jakob so you probablys till get the pick even with the protections. The hornets aren't awful.

[Mr. Body]

the hawks made the playoffs this season . They improved immensely and arent al of a sudden a lottery team

Did I say they were a lottery team?

[rascal]

Nah, you're dumb.

He was 32 when he came to the Spurs.

Averaged 9.3 pts a game in San Antonio and 19.8 pts a game in Dallas.

He was on the slide when he went to the Spurs.

[slick'81]

Did I say they were a lottery team?

They are not problematic

[DPG21920]

But they're are a much better team with Jakob so you probablys till get the pick even with the protections. The hornets aren't awful.

This guarantees it plus the upside if there is ANY slippage (they may lose bridges, any injuries etc…). Right now they can make playoffs and still not convey pick etc..

[Mr. Body]

They are not problematic

Lol.

[slick'81]

Lol.


lol making the playoffs problematical

[SpursFan86]

Agree with some of the other comments here…the real issue I have is the Charlotte pick. There’s a good chance that never results in us getting a new 1st rounder, and even if it does, it’ll be a pick in the late teens.

If we assume that turns into two 2nd round picks + our pick swap in ‘26 isn’t used (not hard to envision us being worse than ATL), then we traded for two firsts and two seconds. Obviously depends on how good ATL is over the upcoming years, but it isn’t hard to imagine a scenario where we don’t end up getting any lottery picks out of this deal.

I don’t think we got fleeced or anything, but I’m not jumping for joy either. I am glad we at least appear to be not choosing the “35-45 win season” route, so guess that’s something.

I’ll give it a B for now.

[Mr. Body]

He was 32 when he came to the Spurs.

Averaged 9.3 pts a game in San Antonio and 19.8 pts a game in Dallas.

He was on the slide when he went to the Spurs.

Aldridge was 30 when he came to the Spurs.

Finley was a significant player for a Spurs championship team.

Are you ever tired of being wrong?

[DPG21920]

1542359632697380864

[rascal]

Aldridge was 30 when he came to the Spurs.

Finley was a significant player for a Spurs championship team.

Are you ever tired of being wrong?

I'm not talking about Aldridge.

Finley was a role player on the Spurs and not a significant player. He didn't get the minutes on the spurs he was getting in Dallas as he was just a role player by the time he came to the spurs.
Not saying he was worthless but not as good as he was in Dallas.

Like I said he was on the decline as a player.

[kjhip1]

1542359632697380864

Well, there goes his market in FA

[scott]

Well, there goes his market in FA

Alternatively, if CHA was hoping to hang on to him it definitely hurts their ability to make the playoffs and turn this protected FRP into something of value.

[T Park]

the hawks made the playoffs this season . They improved immensely and arent al of a sudden a lottery team

In three years when they’re damn near capped out and have Murray and others up for big contracts, that’s when we see what happens.

[T Park]

Aldridge was 30 when he came to the Spurs.

Finley was a significant player for a Spurs championship team.

Are you ever tired of being wrong?


The spurs also beat out iirc a few other contenders to get him too. Pistons wanted him etc.

[BatManu20]

1542359632697380864

As if his rap career wasn’t going bad enough :lol. What a dumbass.

[kjhip1]

Alternatively, if CHA was hoping to hang on to him it definitely hurts their ability to make the playoffs and turn this protected FRP into something of value.

Wonder if charlotte may rescind Qualifying offer.

[Mr. Body]

Guys, nothing's going to happen to Bridges. He's owned by rich white men and he'll get let off free.

[BatManu20]

Miles Bridges reportedly roughed the girl up pretty good and she needed medical attention. Police were called but he had already fled the scene.

And right before free agency. What a dumb fuck.

[Atl Spur]

Guys, nothing's going to happen to Bridges. He's owned by rich white men and he'll get let off free.

Owned by???

[mystargtr34]

So whats the live 10 man rotation look like atm (obviously more changes to come during FA period).

Primo/Jones
Vassell/Branham
Keldon/Richardson
Sochan/McDermott or KBD
Poeltl/Collins

If the Spurs go full rebuild mode and trade Jakob, Richardson and McDermott which is expected then you could slot in Wesley into the 10 man rotation in the backcourt.

25 wins imo in the above scenario and good shot at Webangyourmama.

30 wins if no other moves are made.

[mystargtr34]

Actually I think the above team with Jakob and Richardson could win 35 with the internal improvement between Primo, Vassell, Keldon and additions of Sochan and Branham. But keeping Jakob would be stupid.

[Dejounte]

Primo/ Tre/ Wesley
Vassell/ Lonnie/ Branham
Keldon/ JRich/ Wieskamp
Sochan/ McDermott/ KBD
Poeltl/ Collins/ Landale

[mystargtr34]

Suppose Murray leaving does open the door for Lonnie to return. Wonder if he does.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don't like the trade and keep saying I would have wanted a young player being the centerpiece of it, which would limit the downside. Picks only is a huge gamble. Still, objectively there are a lot of positives and negatives.

The last two similar deals, where teams traded an all star caliber player for a picks package were James Harden to Brooklyn - 4 firsts and 4 swaps - and Jrue - 3 firsts ( one was a late FRP and another one is protected 1-4) and 2 swaps. The Murray deal lands in the middle, which is probably slightly better than fair market value. It's taking a chance that at least one of those unprotected picks or swaps hits. It could end up being an awesome deal similar to how Boston got Tatum and Brown, or it could be a few late firsts similar to what Pelicans are likely to receive for Jrue.

This is why it's absolutely impossible to rate the deal right now and very strong opinions either way are purely emotional, rather than rational.

That said, until the trade, there were only 4 teams owing any unprotected picks or swaps - Philly, Brooklyn, Lakers and Clippers - all of them projected to be at or near championship contender status in the near future. Atlanta isn't anywhere near that even after getting DJ. Moreover, this trade practically kills any chance they might have of landing another difference maker in a trade or free agency for a long time. There's undoubtedly more chance that some of the Atlanta picks hit than any of the aforementioned 4 teams'.

Yet, I still don't like it. I never wanted to go the OKC route, especially with the flattened odds. I know a lot of ST folks adored what OKC were doing , so I expected way more would be happy with the deal. I guess it's easier to enjoy it from afar than having to suffer losing assets and watching your team lose for years. At least we now know the team has a clear direction. Let's hope for the excitement of many trades, being lucky with ping pong balls and hopefully that Atlanta implode within a couple of years.

[Robz4000]

Suppose Murray leaving does open the door for Lonnie to return. Wonder if he does.

Shit, I'd retain him, start him at PG, and play him 40 mins a night. Should help the Spurs in their race to the worst record in the league.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It's important to know that Windhorst is either lying, or Klutch antagonistic for no reason. Murray couldn't sign a contract this year.

...

Murray's third anniversary from his extension is 10/22/2022. The first day of the season this year is 10/18/2022 (for various reasons, the regular season is expected to begin on that date rather than 10/25, but I actually wasn't able to determine for sure). Because the Spurs waited until the last minute, Murray's window won't open up until after the end of the regular season. I mentioned this a couple of days ago when lamenting the team's inability to renegotiate and extend him. But it's not okay for Klutch to not know an extension wasn't possible in the first place. Maybe they didn't but I think it's something that "seems like it would be true" more than it was actually true. If that did happen, it is a pointless bit of thorniness considering that the extension is most likely impossible.

I may be completely wrong, however, doesn't the rule state that he could be extended until the day before the season begins (third anniversary after extension) - regardless of the exact date the new season would begin. This is how I understand it, at least the spirit of the rule. Thus, Murray could have theoretically been extended in the last moment, just before the 2022/23 season.

[slick'81]

Shit, I'd retain him, start him at PG, and play him 40 mins a night. Should help the Spurs in their race to the worst record in the league.


Yup, let him score 20 a night as we win 15-20 games I couldn't care less

[The Truth #6]

Funny to see a lot of the “logical” posters get overwhelmed with emotions and engage in hyperventilating but we all have our battles and this one isn’t mine.

Beyond that, look, I appreciate DJM’s time here. But after the emotions subside, I see this moment as a sea change in the Spurs FO. In retrospect, Brian Wright likely gritted his teeth through the DDR era so Pop could get his record. Wright is putting his stamp on the team. His type of players and doing it his way. Sure, I think getting OO would have been nice but I don’t follow him closely so don’t have a hard opinion. DJM, bottom line just doesn’t seem like the players Wright targets and now he has the power to shake that up.

I’m not so much impressed with the trade (though ut looks to be the best we could get) but with the idea that this is no longer completely Pop’s team anymore.

[daslicer]

Shit, I'd retain him, start him at PG, and play him 40 mins a night. Should help the Spurs in their race to the worst record in the league.

Spurs can then flip him for a solid player and a draft pick.

[Mr. Body]

Funny to see a lot of the “logical” posters get overwhelmed with emotions and engage in hyperventilating but we all have our battles and this one isn’t mine.

Beyond that, look, I appreciate DJM’s time here. But after the emotions subside, I see this moment as a sea change in the Spurs FO. In retrospect, Brian Wright likely gritted his teeth through the DDR era so Pop could get his record. Wright is putting his stamp on the team. His type of players and doing it his way. Sure, I think getting OO would have been nice but I don’t follow him closely so don’t have a hard opinion. DJM, bottom line just doesn’t seem like the players Wright targets and now he has the power to shake that up.

I’m not so much impressed with the trade (though ut looks to be the best we could get) but with the idea that this is no longer completely Pop’s team anymore.

Lol, who's making stupid, emotional statements?

[spurs10]

Now if the 2023 protected CHA pick is a lottery pick we lose doesn't it just become a 2024 unprotected pick?

[gospursgojas]

Changes to 2024 1-14 protected

[mystargtr34]

and then what after 2024 if it doesn't convey? Turns into two seconds or one second?

[mystargtr34]

Was just looking at the standings from this season just gone and the Spurs have a real chance of finishing with a bottom three worst record in the league next year :lol. Getting frothy at the thought of Wembanyama.

https://www.espn.com/nba/standings

In the West, every team that finished above the Spurs is almost certainly going to finish above the Spurs again, with the only wildcard being Utah who may look to blow it up but that's unlikely.

Then you look at the teams below the Spurs. Lakers, Kings, Blazers, Thunder, Rockets. Lets assume the Spurs will win 30 games. The Lakers are a given to finish with more wins, the Kings are shitty as usual but with a full pre-season of Sabonis and Fox together and adding Keegan Murray they should win more than 30 and may get up to 35-40. The Blazers will be back in playoff contention with Lillard, Grant and Nurkic. The Thunder will likely finish between 25-35 wins depending on the health of SGA, the improvement of Giddey and the impact Chet makes. The Rockets could jump up to 25-30 wins from 20 if Jalen Green takes a leap, plus the addition of Jabari Smith and older rookies such as Eason and Washington.

Then out East, you'd think the Magic (22 wins) and Pistons (23) could improve to 30-35 wins with Banchero and Ivey and Cunningham in his second year. The Pacers (25) may still be shitty and win less than 30 imo, they don't have much. The Knicks (37) and Wizards (35) shouldn't go backwards too much. Everyone else in the East will be better than the Spurs.

[wildbill2u]

You can't win a championship without 2-3 All-Stars. Murray was a little iffy as an All-Star. He was getting scoring stats because he was the first and only option so he was putting up the majority of the shots.

There is no one else in sight on this roster that is a guaranteed natural All-star, so you aren't going to have the required 2-3 All Stars within the timeframe of Murray's career and contract expectations. Spurs are simply moving into position to swing for the fences in a future draft or two in the hope of landing some All-star potential in a lucky draft position in the first round.

[exstatic]

the hawks made the playoffs this season . They improved immensely and arent al of a sudden a lottery team
Are you really this dense? The year before, the were in the fucking EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS. They most certainly did NOT improve immensely.

[KingKev]

Are you really this dense? The year before, the were in the fucking EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS. They most certainly did NOT improve immensely.

I think he is arguing they just improved immensely after this trade.

Anything can happen but hard to see that 2025 pick being that valuable but I agree with yohr earlier sentiments the further out the picks the better.

[Fireball]

I hate the trade

hate it

I’ve thought about it and I understand it but I still hate it.

+1

[exstatic]

and then what after 2024 if it doesn't convey? Turns into two seconds or one second?

2025, 1-14 protected. If it doesn’t convey in 2025, it then becomes 2 SRPs.

Steve Clifford just returned to the coaching job in CHA. He has a pretty good record of getting teams into the playoffs, 4 times in 8 years, and his teams have never missed 3 years in a row. People were freaking out about the Toronto pick, only having two shots, and we got it the first year.

[exstatic]

I think he is arguing they just improved immensely after this trade.

Anything can happen but hard to see that 2025 pick being that valuable but I agree with yohr earlier sentiments the further out the picks the better.

Dejounte comes off their books in 2024, Collins in 2025, both unrestricted. I wouldn’t consider either to be a lock to re-sign, especially if they struggle.

[KingKev]

Dejounte comes off their books in 2024, Collins in 2025, both unrestricted. I wouldn’t consider either to be a lock to re-sign, especially if they struggle.

Yeah I’m with you on that. I think the ATL picks and pick swap were an appropriate return but the the Galo part is frustrating as we are likely eating 15mm in a buyout. Eating 15mm is worth the CHA FRP alone.

[JuneJive]

Those are Schrödinger picks.

Both great and shit. We will find out which eventually.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Brian Windhorst: Dejounte Murray wasn't going to sign extension with San Antonio


However, ESPN’s Brian Windhorst reported that the Spurs decided to part ways with Murray because it was inevitable that they’d lose the 25-year-old. “He and his agent, Rich Paul, made it known that he was not going to extend his contract with the Spurs this summer,” Windhorst said on The Hoop Collective podcast. – via Doric Sam @ Bleacher Report

[KingKev]

Brian Windhorst: Dejounte Murray wasn't going to sign extension with San Antonio


However, ESPN’s Brian Windhorst reported that the Spurs decided to part ways with Murray because it was inevitable that they’d lose the 25-year-old. “He and his agent, Rich Paul, made it known that he was not going to extend his contract with the Spurs this summer,” Windhorst said on The Hoop Collective podcast. – via Doric Sam @ Bleacher Report

As usual media misleading fans who aren’t in tune to understand what really is going on.

The value of Dejounte’s eligable extension was 3yrs/70mm.

He is worth closer to 30mm currently. Why would he sign an extension? Klutch was spot on advising his client not to sign that. That doesn’t preclude the Spurs from being able to retain DJ at market value in 2024 when he enters free agency.

The Sours obviously wanted DJ in a discount deal because “it’s the Spurs way”

Such bullshit. You finally get an AS level player who wants to be here and you cheap out. This wasn’t about tanking for VW it was about the Spurs being cheap.

Meanwhile coach Pop makes insane money for a coach to lose games.

[Proxy]

Now trade Dougie, Richardson, and Jakob, and let Lonnie go

[KingKev]

Now trade Dougie, Richardson, and Jakob, and let Lonnie go

More likely to extend all them. They are good boys. Culture guys.

[exstatic]

Brian Windhorst: Dejounte Murray wasn't going to sign extension with San Antonio


However, ESPN’s Brian Windhorst reported that the Spurs decided to part ways with Murray because it was inevitable that they’d lose the 25-year-old. “He and his agent, Rich Paul, made it known that he was not going to extend his contract with the Spurs this summer,” Windhorst said on The Hoop Collective podcast. – via Doric Sam @ Bleacher Report

By signing his bargain deal, there was never going to be an extension. It would have cost him a ton of money, because it would have been based on that bargain deal, not his potential max. If they wanted to pay him that, he probably would have stayed, and gone into free agency, getting a new contract instead of signing an extension.

[The Truth #6]

Lol, who's making stupid, emotional statements?

You’re on a roll, aren’t you? Breathe.

You think the GM who just traded DJM yesterday is operating in the same manner as before? This feels totally different, which is why you’re getting so upset about this trade.

[widowmaker]

Now trade Dougie, Richardson, and Jakob, and let Lonnie go


Might as well but they wont.

[mo7888]

As usual media misleading fans who aren’t in tune to understand what really is going on.

The value of Dejounte’s eligable extension was 3yrs/70mm.

He is worth closer to 30mm currently. Why would he sign an extension? Klutch was spot on advising his client not to sign that. That doesn’t preclude the Spurs from being able to retain DJ at market value in 2024 when he enters free agency.

The Sours obviously wanted DJ in a discount deal because “it’s the Spurs way”

Such bullshit. You finally get an AS level player who wants to be here and you cheap out. This wasn’t about tanking for VW it was about the Spurs being cheap.

Meanwhile coach Pop makes insane money for a coach to lose games.

Windhorst is full of it...the fact is if DJ was with the Lakers he wouldn't have signed an extension and given up all that money....thats just own hanging fruit for him to shit on us in front of casuals who don't know any better...

[KingKev]

Windhorst is full of it...the fact is if DJ was with the Lakers he wouldn't have signed an extension and given up all that money....thats just own hanging fruit for him to shit on us in front of casuals who don't know any better...

It’s true but playing devil’s advocate PATFO don’t do themselves any favours with the media either. If’s iften derserving they get no attention or shit on when they do.

[widowmaker]

We are not trading Keldon :pctoss lol


Just wait till this time next year. They will ask for 4 first round picks but only get 1 late first rounder and 2 2nd rounders and a corpse.

[Chinook]

I may be completely wrong, however, doesn't the rule state that he could be extended until the day before the season begins (third anniversary after extension) - regardless of the exact date the new season would begin. This is how I understand it, at least the spirit of the rule. Thus, Murray could have theoretically been extended in the last moment, just before the 2022/23 season.

Hmmm... I did see this footnote:


2If more than one season remains on a previously extended contract when a new extension is signed, then the extension can only be signed from the end of the July Moratorium to the last day of the offseason. If a previous extension was signed after October 1 but before the start of the regular season, then its anniversary is considered to be October 1.

Feels like those might be two different footnotes smashed into one entry. If that applies to all extensions and not just all extensions that were made with more than one season remaining on the previous contract, that would color things a bit differently. I didn't see anything to suggest that an renegotiation/extension also has that understanding of the term anniversary. If it doesn't, then it's basically the same thing, since an extension without a renegotiation was an obvious non-starter. Renegotiations don't have the same timing window as extensions (they can go into the season), but I think once an extension was signed, it would reset the clock on his deal. My original plan to use cap space to frontload his next deal was moot, at least this off-season. I'd be shocked if the Spurs had tried to get Murray to take an extension without the substantial pay raise. If they did, Klutch was right to tell them no. If they didn't, then Klutch telling them they weren't going to let Murray extend now still comes off as needlessly antagonistic.

[Big Empty]

What happens to the Hornets pick if they land below 16

[KingKev]

Just wait till this time next year. They will ask for 4 first round picks but only get 1 late first rounder and 2 2nd rounders and a corpse.

Keldon absolutely should be on the table but they need to extend him now and see how he develops as the #1 guy first. If he hasn’t added to his game move him. Rinse and repeat.

[Chinook]

What happens to the Hornets pick if they land below 16

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

[widowmaker]

Keldon absolutely should be on the table but they need to extend him now and see how he develops as the #1 guy first. If he hasn’t added to his game move him. Rinse and repeat.


What for? Even if he breaks out similar to DJ he’ll still end up like DJ getting traded for a bunch of crap for the sake of trying to strike gold in the late rounds of the draft. The Spurs do not know how to tank the closest they will get next year will be around 5-6.

[Big Empty]

What for? Even if he breaks out similar to DJ he’ll still end up like DJ getting traded for a bunch of crap for the sake of trying to strike gold in the late rounds of the draft. The Spurs do not know how to tank the closest they will get next year will be around 5-6.
5/6 coulda landed is Ivey or Mathurin thats not a bad thing

[Mr. Body]

You’re on a roll, aren’t you? Breathe.

You think the GM who just traded DJM yesterday is operating in the same manner as before? This feels totally different, which is why you’re getting so upset about this trade.

Lol, doing things different isn't automatically a good thing. Driving yourself to work with your eyes closed isn't a great idea just because it's different. There's a reason other teams' execs are puzzled why they'd do this and it's not because different is automatically a great thing.

[pad300]

I'm not talking about Aldridge.

Finley was a role player on the Spurs and not a significant player. He didn't get the minutes on the spurs he was getting in Dallas as he was just a role player by the time he came to the spurs.
Not saying he was worthless but not as good as he was in Dallas.

Like I said he was on the decline as a player.

Supporting Rascal's point, IIRC, the reason Finley was a FA was that Dallas had cut his contract as part of some amnesty thing. He'd been getting quite a bit more than what he got with the Spurs, and they figured his play wasn't worth the money... We were paying him ~$3M annually, less than the MLE, Dallas was still on the hook for~$16M annually (but it didn't count against their cap after the amnesty).

[BacktoBasics]

Rich Paul might be as big of a cancer at Kyrie

[The Truth #6]

Lol, doing things different isn't automatically a good thing. Driving yourself to work with your eyes closed isn't a great idea just because it's different. There's a reason other teams' execs are puzzled why they'd do this and it's not because different is automatically a great thing.

I would say they are finally embracing the rebuild, which is puzzling that they are doing it now and not earlier but I’m ok with finally committing to it. It’s not perfect. And since nephew detonated the franchise everything has felt off.

[widowmaker]

5/6 coulda landed is Ivey or Mathurin thats not a bad thing

We’ll see so far I don’t think those are franchise players.

[Atl Spur]

Rich Paul might be as big of a cancer at Kyrie

Please elaborate…..

[Atl Spur]

If the market allows me to make 10mil plus more a year, why wouldn’t I?

[Atl Spur]

And play in a bigger market / play for a contender.

[baseline bum]

What happens to the Hornets pick if they land below 16

If it's 16 or better it turns into a top 14 protected 2024 pick, then a top 13 protected 2025, and then two worthless seconds after that.

[KingKev]

Rich Paul might be as big of a cancer at Kyrie

I disagree. His job is to satisfy his clients. For the most part that means getting them paid, and for some clients also being in a position to win. DJ would have been selling himself short if he took an extension at what he was eligible for. If PATFO even approached the negotiation with that as a starting point they made their bed. Now sleep - Coach Pop first.

[KingKev]

And play in a bigger market / play for a contender.


and free tarot card reading from ATL’s finest. JK bro.

This trade has me agreeing with both yourself and John B …Crazy!

[BacktoBasics]

I disagree. His job is to satisfy his clients. For the most part that means getting them paid, and for some clients also being in a position to win. DJ would have been selling himself short if he took an extension at what he was eligible for. If PATFO even approached the negotiation with that as a starting point they made their bed. Now sleep - Coach Pop first.

Oh I know it's his job is to put his client first as well as himself. No argument there.

I look at like this. He's a cancer to the league in the same way promoters have destroyed boxing. When the agents are controlling player movement to the detriment of team building then its certainly counter to the greater good of the league. Making smaller markets even more irrelevant.

None of us know what the FO and DJ discussed. I would agree that SA wasn't looking to max him and that was arguably his market but I'm also not of the belief that the Spurs don't negotiate in good faith.

[baseline bum]

Rich Paul might be as big of a cancer at Kyrie

Why? For not accepting a lowball extension?

[exstatic]

If it's 16 or better it turns into a top 14 protected 2024 pick, then a top 13 protected 2025, and then two worthless seconds after that.

So, we have one more shot than the Toronto pick we got for Thad. Yay!

[rjv]

What happens to the Hornets pick if they land below 16

thinking it over last night, I think there is a very real chance that the hornets land below 16 in 2023 and that was even before the bridges felony charges (even though I think bridges was not going to return, the hornets have no way of getting thing back for him now). if you think about who makes it in the east, charlotte is maybe an 8th seed at best.

[exstatic]

Why? For not accepting a lowball extension?

Right? There was never going to be an extension, because the starting salary would be based off the bargain extension he’s on right now. He was going into UFA in 2024 to get his bag. Having an agent do what his client wants doesn’t make him a cancer.

[Atl Spur]

and free tarot card reading from ATL’s finest. JK bro.

This trade has me agreeing with both yourself and John B …Crazy!
Lol

[Atl Spur]

Oh I know it's his job is to put his client first as well as himself. No argument there.

I look at like this. He's a cancer to the league in the same way promoters have destroyed boxing. When the agents are controlling player movement to the detriment of team building then its certainly counter to the greater good of the league. Making smaller markets even more irrelevant.

None of us know what the FO and DJ discussed. I would agree that SA wasn't looking to max him and that was arguably his market but I'm also not of the belief that the Spurs don't negotiate in good faith.

I’m actually speechless. Thanks for your submission.

[KingKev]

Oh I know it's his job is to put his client first as well as himself. No argument there.

I look at like this. He's a cancer to the league in the same way promoters have destroyed boxing. When the agents are controlling player movement to the detriment of team building then its certainly counter to the greater good of the league. Making smaller markets even more irrelevant.

None of us know what the FO and DJ discussed. I would agree that SA wasn't looking to max him and that was arguably his market but I'm also not of the belief that the Spurs don't negotiate in good faith.

Yeah I won’t fight you on this but i’ll argue Klutch has serious power these days and the goal is to learn the rules of the game and exploit them to win. Righteous PATFO need a culture tweak and getting in bed with a whore here and there has its advantages.

[BacktoBasics]

Why? For not accepting a lowball extension?

No. Thats not what I'm saying.

[BacktoBasics]

Yeah I won’t fight you on this but i’ll argue Klutch has serious power these days and the goal is to learn the rules of the game and exploit them to win. Righteous PATFO need a culture tweak and getting in bed with a whore here and there has its advantages.

Okay. So you get where I'm coming from. I'm not arguing against the idea that an agent shouldn't do everything in their power to help their client. Only that the landscape of player agency has changed and you're right... they have a shit ton of power and its not to the benefit of the league. It actually hurts the league.

We don't an NBA that is controlled by agents.

That is not to say that I think that should come at the expense of the players and their best interest.

I think some people just aren't smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

[NO LIMIT ARMY COMMANDER]

meh. Team wasn’t making the playoffs with mean Dejounte though.

No this playin crap doesn’t count, this was a lottery team with him so whatever.

[baseline bum]

No. Thats not what I'm saying.

You haven't given any supporting evidence to your claim that Rich Paul is a cancer on this league. Anthony Davis deciding he wanted out of NO and hiring Klutch to steer him to LA isn't Klutch controlling player movement.

[Chomag]

Only way I can swallow this trade is that we are also moving Jacob

[KingKev]

Okay. So you get where I'm coming from. I'm not arguing against the idea that an agent shouldn't do everything in their power to help their client. Only that the landscape of player agency has changed and you're right... they have a shit ton of power and its not to the benefit of the league. It actually hurts the league.

We don't an NBA that is controlled by agents.

That is not to say that I think that should come at the expense of the players and their best interest.

I think some people just aren't smart enough to understand what I'm saying.

I think like most things in life these things eventually work their way out. The same way the super team phenomenon and player empowerment shook the landscape of the NBA and now seems to be neutralized, Klutch seems to have temporarily put their mark on the game. Probably more to come with shops like Roc Nation getting involved. But for a chance at a few years of exciting playoff basketball I’m a dirty girl. Watch me dance on that pole.

[Davidicus2]

https://twitter.com/JakeLFischer/status/1542530386982584321

[BacktoBasics]

You haven't given any supporting evidence to your claim that Rich Paul is a cancer on this league. Anthony Davis deciding he wanted out of NO and hiring Klutch to steer him to LA isn't Klutch controlling player movement.
I’m not going to get into a pointless back and forth with you. I made my point. I’m never mentioned AD but it don’t necessarily agree with your opinion either. We’re not gonna agree.

No one should want a league driven and controlled by agents.

[Cardinal]

What benefit do the spurs get by expanding the trade to include the Heat? The assets would be flowing to the Hawks. Or are the Heat looking to shed additional salary by attaching a pick?

[John B]

I think like most things in life these things eventually work their way out. The same way the super team phenomenon and player empowerment shook the landscape of the NBA and now seems to be neutralized, Klutch seems to have temporarily put their mark on the game. Probably more to come with shops like Roc Nation getting involved. But for a chance at a few years of exciting playoff basketball I’m a dirty girl. Watch me dance on that pole.

I don’t like it obviously because the Spurs are in the small market and get even more in the disadvantage as it is. I mean to other teams like Lakers, Miami, Nets, Warriors, etc they don’t mean shiite. Players would still come no matter what. We feel different here as Spurs fans :lol Hey but that’s why I love this team. It’s Primo time. Who the fck is this kid? :lol If he wins MIP, DJ would commit Hara-Kiri :lol

[FkLA]

Aldridge is still the only high level FA signing this team has ever made. Fact is this is not a market FAs want to go to and having max capspace requires a ton of planning ahead.

Aldridge was a perennial all-star during his prime with an outside shot at the HOF. I don't think Murray is in that tier. Jrue, Middleton, Hayward, Sabonis, McCollum, Wiggins, prime Millsap, etc. Those are the kind of guys in Murray's tier, imo.

I think we can land one of those.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

What benefit do the spurs get by expanding the trade to include the Heat? The assets would be flowing to the Hawks. Or are the Heat looking to shed additional salary by attaching a pick?

Rerouting Gallo somewhere else or absorbing more bad contracts for additional assets.

[rjv]

Aldridge was a perennial all-star during his prime with an outside shot at the HOF. I don't think Murray is in that tier. Jrue, Middleton, Hayward, Sabonis, McCollum, Wiggins, prime Millsap, etc. Those are the kind of guys in Murray's tier, imo.

I think we can land one of those.

historically, the spurs have landed these kind of players but it was easier to recruit them because the chances of winning a title were always so high. the spurs now have to create a promising enough of a nucleus to attract such players.

[John B]

Aldridge was a perennial all-star during his prime with an outside shot at the HOF. I don't think Murray is in that tier. Jrue, Middleton, Hayward, Sabonis, McCollum, Wiggins, prime Millsap, etc. Those are the kind of guys in Murray's tier, imo.

I think we can land one of those.

Lower

[FkLA]

historically, the spurs have landed these kind of players but it was easier to recruit them because the chances of winning a title were always so high. the spurs now have to create a promising enough of a nucleus to attract such players.

For sure. But there's no immediate need to attract one at the moment. You try to find a true centerpiece in the draf (bc that is something the Spurs definitely haven't had success doing in FA). This trade increases the likelihood of that--with the incoming picks and gutting the team for a full blown tank job.