Ultimately, the Dejounte Murray Trade was a Deal the Spurs Had to Accept

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/dejounte-murray-trade-san-antonio-spurs/

Don't worry, that uneasy sensation you feel is just your favorite team stepping off of the mediocrity treadmill. Better days ahead, my friends.

The way I look at it: The chances of the Spurs winning a championship in the next decade increased dramatically after the trade.

:danceclub

[jeebus]

The wrist slitting that happened in here yesterday was quite amusing to witness :lol Wouldn't be surprised if some committed hara-kiri over the fact the Spurs won't be in the play in tourney next year :lmao

[duncan2150]

I pretty agreed on everything, i think they could negociate better to have an Okongwu. That's the part of the deal i don't like. Imo they did not maximize Dejounte's peak.

I think those 2025, 2027 picks could be interesting tough.

[KingKev]

https://www.spurstalk.com/dejounte-murray-trade-san-antonio-spurs/

Don't worry, that uneasy sensation you feel is just your favorite team stepping off of the mediocrity treadmill. Better days ahead, my friends.

The way I look at it: The chances of the Spurs winning a championship in the next decade increased dramatically after the trade.

:danceclub

I disagree with your conclusions here. We remain on the path to mediocrity as our prideful nature will have us winning 5-10 games each year, in perpetuity so as to just miss out on a top 5 pick.

With 20-25mm to burn in free agency let’s see what PATFO communicates in the way they approach it. I suspect they add some win now vets to remain marginally competitive, once again failing to choose a path.

Also mention if the Galo situation? He was obviously guaranteed. We are probably about to eat 15mm in dead cap in a buyout. That Charlotte pick is really just compensation for taking him on.

[Maddog]

It was the right move.
Far from painless- but the right move. If he stayed and improved his value wouldn't be any higher because he would have only 1 year left on his contract.
Remember Nephew's value despite being a far superior player was $#&* because he had one year (yes I know he also stated he wasn't going anywhere else but Cali so not completely analogous)

[duncan2150]

I disagree with your conclusions here. We remain on the path to mediocrity as our prideful nature will have us winning 5-10 games each year, in perpetuity so as to just miss out on a top 5 pick.

With 20-25mm to burn in free agency let’s see what PATFO communicates in the way they approach it. I suspect they add some win now vets to remain marginally competitive, once again failing to choose a path.

Also mention if the Galo situation? He was obviously guaranteed. We are probably about to eat 15mm in dead cap in a buyout. That Charlotte pick is really just compensation for taking him on.

yes that Gallo contract could be really bad. If the Spurs guaranteed him and don't find a way to trade him for some assets, it will make the deal worse.

[jeebus]

yes that Gallo contract could be really bad. If the Spurs guaranteed him and don't find a way to trade him for some assets, it will make the deal worse.

Why? It ends after next season. The free agents available this year is absolutely piss poor and the Spurs are looking to spend next year. If anything, his is the perfect contract.

[KingKev]

Why? It ends after next season. The free agents available this year is absolutely piss poor and the Spurs are looking to spend next year. If anything, his is the perfect contract.

It’s great that he is expiring but it’s a poor use of cap space. The plus is if we keep him around Pop will probably play him a fair amount so he could be helpful with the tank. The new Beli.

[JeffDuncan]

yes that Gallo contract could be really bad. If the Spurs guaranteed him and don't find a way to trade him for some assets, it will make the deal worse.


It’s mandatory to spend 90% of the salary cap amount on player salaries. That’s a requirement for an NBA franchise, under the collective bargaining agreement with the players union. That can mean having some bad contracts.

[JeffDuncan]

P.S. to the above, the current “floor” for player salary total is about 111m.

[KingKev]

It’s mandatory to spend 90% of the salary cap amount on player salaries. That’s a requirement for an NBA franchise, under the collective bargaining agreement with the players union. That can mean having some bad contracts.

Spurs would rather waste 15-20mm a year in bad contracts than pay their homegrown star because out of principle, here in San Antonio we take discounts.

Pop should take a discount this season and lead by example. 5mm instead of 12mm.

[JeffDuncan]

I’ll also add that Gallo is far from the worst player the Spurs could have gotten. He is at least tall, listed at 6’10”, and he can play PF.

[duncan2150]

Why? It ends after next season. The free agents available this year is absolutely piss poor and the Spurs are looking to spend next year. If anything, his is the perfect contract.

We are in full rebuild so taking +5 millions in this deal, in our cap space when we could use it on projet or taking bad contract for draft capital is not good imo. But if you trade Gallo for a first at some point it's totally ok.


It’s mandatory to spend 90% of the salary cap amount on player salaries. That’s a requirement for an NBA franchise, under the collective bargaining agreement with the players union. That can mean having some bad contracts.

Yes but like i said, you can take bad contracts but you need something to be attached with. Here the Hawks are paying for DJ not for us taking that big Gallo's contract even for one year.

[KingKev]

We are in full rebuild so taking +5 millions in this deal, in our cap space when we could use it on projet or taking bad contract for draft capital is not good imo. But if you trade Gallo for a first at some point it's totally ok.




Yes but like i said, you can take bad contracts but you need something to be attached with. Here the Hawks are paying for DJ not for us taking that big Gallo's contract even for one year.

Gallo is still serviceable but let’s not kid ourselves he is about to turn 34 and his age has shown these last few years. He will not garner an FRP.

He is a likely buyout target and I’m sure that was discussed as this was going down.

[RC_Drunkford]

only if the Spurs tank tbh. If they somehow make it to be the 9th seed again then this trade is worthless

[JuneJive]

Yet people shit on the trade.

Wristcutters mostly.

[dbestpro]

Love the strategy, love the trade and everyone here will love it too when that draft capital pays off. Till then I guess they'll just have to whine and cry. Same thing happened when we traded Hill.

[3&D_TBH]

I said close to the same thing as yesterday and was called a homer. HAHAH. We just improved our chances of getting back on the track we deserve. What's not to like?

[NASpurs]

I'm always on team tank especially when we're fighting for a play-in spot instead of a high lottery pick so I welcome being off the treadmill of mediocrity.

Super excited to suck next year and seeing the rooks and the other young guys grow and see what they can do.

[KingKev]

only if the Spurs tank tbh. If they somehow make it to be the 9th seed again then this trade is worthless

Yeah this is a simple way to sum up my frustration and depleting blind faith.


I'm always on team tank especially when we're fighting for a play-in spot instead of a high lottery pick so I welcome being off the treadmill of mediocrity.

Super excited to suck next year and seeing the rooks and the other young guys grow and see what they can do.

I need to see further commitment to the tank though. I’m still not sold.

[dbestpro]

Here is a CIA Pop type thought. What if Victor W. Says he will only play for the Spurs and the Spurs have the first pick? This extra draft capital can be used to facilitate a trade with whoever has the first pick. Stranger things have happened and with him playing on TPs team, he can easily threaten to stay in France.

[RC_Drunkford]

Here is a CIA Pop type thought. What if Victor W. Says he will only play for the Spurs and the Spurs have the first pick? This extra draft capital can be used to facilitate a trade with whoever has the first pick. Stranger things have happened and with him playing on TPs team, he can easily threaten to stay in France.

he's leaving ASVEL

[Twisted_Dawg]

The Wi00pndhorst piece yesterday said Dejounte turned down an extension and also said he wouldn't sign one next year. Now whether this is true or not, I would think the Spurs did offer him an extension. To not offer would have been a horrible business decision. I think the Spurs quickly and clearly saw he planned to become a free agent in 2024 seeking a max with the high potential of leaving. Speaking of being a free agent in two years, Atlanta will also face this dilemma. If Klutch and the Lakers come calling, who's to say Dejounte doesn't bolt? If the DejounTrae experiment doesn't work out and Dejounte leaves in two years, just how bad will that Atlanta team be from 2025 -2027? This trade is going to take a long time to play out.

[Twisted_Dawg]

*Windhorst (couldn't edit)

[KingKev]

The Wi00pndhorst piece yesterday said Dejounte turned down an extension and also said he wouldn't sign one next year. Now whether this is true or not, I would think the Spurs did offer him an extension. To not offer would have been a horrible business decision. I think the Spurs quickly and clearly saw he planned to become a free agent in 2024 seeking a max with the high potential of leaving. Speaking of being a free agent in two years, Atlanta will also face this dilemma. If Klutch and the Lakers come calling, who's to say Dejounte doesn't bolt? If the DejounTrae experiment doesn't work out and Dejounte leaves in two years, just how bad will that Atlanta team be from 2025 -2027? This trade is going to take a long time to play out.


How many times does it need to be posted that the amount he was eligible for extension was only 70mm iver 3 yrs. FAR BELOW HIS MARKET VALUE. Why would he sign that? It’s insulting Spurs would try and get him at that rate.

[Strategic]

May just be the final move to get Pop off the bench.

[exstatic]

May just be the final move to get Pop off the bench.

Nope. He’s supposedly excited about coaching the youngsters.

[KingKev]

May just be the final move to get Pop off the bench.

We can only hope. He seems more enthused than ever to coach though. No accountability. If they outperform he is a genius. If they lose they were supposed to. All while slowly adding to his win totals and cutting a check for 12mm while travelling first class, eating and drinking like a king while everyone coddles and patronizes him. Pop is the real winner here.

[mo7888]

https://www.spurstalk.com/dejounte-murray-trade-san-antonio-spurs/

Don't worry, that uneasy sensation you feel is just your favorite team stepping off of the mediocrity treadmill. Better days ahead, my friends.

The way I look at it: The chances of the Spurs winning a championship in the next decade increased dramatically after the trade.

:danceclub

I agree with everything except getting Atlanta's 2023 pick...and that simply a product of me believing they have a good chance of missing the playoffs but, I agree with the strategy if one believes they'll make the playoffs.

The one thing you didn't cover yet that would be interesting to know is: what's next? Is there a way to make a trade to get Charlotte to lift their protection on the pick next season? What do we do with Poeltl? Do we extend KJ or move him and what would he bring?

[KingKev]

I agree with everything except getting Atlanta's 2023 pick...and that simply a product of me believing they have a good chance of missing the playoffs but, I agree with the strategy if one believes they'll make the playoffs.

The one thing you didn't cover yet that would be interesting to know is: what's next? Is there a way to make a trade to get Charlotte to lift their protection on the pick next season? What do we do with Poeltl? Do we extend KJ or move him and what would he bring?

Doubt they do that and the Bridges situation just got messy after he caught a domestic. CHA could very well be lottery bound next year.

[mo7888]

Doubt they do that and the Bridges situation just got messy after he caught a domestic. CHA could very well be lottery bound next year.

I am curious about the Bridges part of the equation... if Detroit or Charlotte still max him out (Charlotte matching in the scenario that Detroit maxes him) then I think we are in a good position to deal with Charlotte on a Poeltl deal. Conversely, if it is bad enough that Charlotte doesn't want Bridges anymore it yakes pressure off of them needing to move salary and we might not be able to deal...unless it's a trade centered around KJ and McDermott where they see KJ as the best Bridges replacement they can acquire in a weak FA class.

[Dex]

SpursTalk: WHY DOES PATFO NEVER DO ANYTHING!? WE ALWAYS JUST STAND PAT AND STAY MEDIOCRE!

PATFO: Does something.

Also SpursTalk: WHAT ARE WE DOING!?!? WE'RE GONNA SUCK NEXT YEAR AND THE TEAM IS GOING TO MOVE TO THE MOON!

[KingKev]

I am curious about the Bridges part of the equation... if Detroit or Charlotte still max him out (Charlotte matching in the scenario that Detroit maxes him) then I think we are in a good position to deal with Charlotte on a Poeltl deal. Conversely, if it is bad enough that Charlotte doesn't want Bridges anymore it yakes pressure off of them needing to move salary and we might not be able to deal...unless it's a trade centered around KJ and McDermott where they see KJ as the best Bridges replacement they can acquire in a weak FA class.

Depends if he just gave some chick a lil love tap or he went Breezy on her.

Charlotte wasn’t looking to max him. His value just went down no doubt but that is probably a bonus to outside suitors. Charlotte will have a real dilemma in their hands. Someone may thristy enough to offer him the max I feel.

[mo7888]

Depends if he just gave some chick a lil love tap or he went Breezy on her.

Charlotte wasn’t looking to max him. His value just went down no doubt but that is probably a bonus to outside suitors. Charlotte will have a real dilemma in their hands. Someone may thristy enough to offer him the max I feel.

I hope you're right and someone offers him the max...that would put a good bit of pressure on Charlotte to make a deal...either to shed salary or replace him...

[DPG21920]

Agree mostly timvp. Disagree with the framing of the OO part of negotiations. Sure as it stands ATL said OO or an unprotected 1st. But that doesn’t mean it had to be that way. SA should have walked away with OO and all the unprotected picks.

Should not have been either or. Maybe give up the CHA pick instead. But SA had multiple teams making offers, and it’s hard to swallow trading an AS PG and not walking away with anything tangible to celebrate immediately imo.

Still a high upside haul, but Sa left meat on the bone which you don’t do with trading young all stars and multiple bidders.

[mo7888]

Agree mostly timvp. Disagree with the framing of the OO part of negotiations. Sure as it stands ATL said OO or an unprotected 1st. But that doesn’t mean it had to be that way. SA should have walked away with OO and all the unprotected picks.

Should not have been either or. Maybe give up the CHA pick instead. But SA had multiple teams making offers, and it’s hard to swallow trading an AS PG and not walking away with anything tangible to celebrate immediately imo.

Still a high upside haul, but Sa left meat on the bone which you don’t do with trading young all stars and multiple bidders.

The other offers extent unprotected picks...huge difference...also OO isn't as valuable as any pick we recieved...not even the Charlotte pick..

[DPG21920]

The other offers extent unprotected picks...huge difference...also OO isn't as valuable as any pick we recieved...not even the Charlotte pick..

OO is easily more valuable than a lottery protected pick

[mo7888]

OO is easily more valuable than a lottery protected pick

A 6'8" C who can't shoot in today's game? Good luck with that...

[Mugen]

:lol Sniff Crew finally embracing the tank after 4 years and making it seem like it's some novel concept they just thought of....

It'd be hilarious if this dumbass FO ended up throwing big money at Ayton now tbh

[Mr. Body]

https://www.spurstalk.com/dejounte-murray-trade-san-antonio-spurs/

Don't worry, that uneasy sensation you feel is just your favorite team stepping off of the mediocrity treadmill. Better days ahead, my friends.

The way I look at it: The chances of the Spurs winning a championship in the next decade increased dramatically after the trade.

:danceclub

Hmm... but this article doesn't actually ask, or answer, the actual question, which is why this trade needed to happen now.

It seems there's a lot of belief that this trade automatically makes the team a high lottery pick next year and instantly better in terms of long-term talent. It ignores how remaining talent may need to develop in a worse playing situation. We may not even be doing a 'tear down to the tacks' thing by shipping Poeltl and Keldon. The team may not actually be tremendously worse.

A lot of things are uncertain and still in play in terms of a future. The opportunity cost of two more years of All-Star play have been traded, again, for probably poor draft picks, with a roll of the dice that they will be better. We are also ignoring the impact on team psychology and fan base. When the message to players is that they will be moved if they are only 'very good,' this can become toxic. When an already squeamish fan base can't see the wisdom of dumping players, when do you get them back?

I think you, and many, are fetishizing 'treadmills' and some idea that a starting block is necessary for rebuilding, when the team was already rebuilding, and that a few spots in the lottery don't matter all that much, but that tearing down what is working does. There is a reason teams don't do trades like this -- ridding themselves of talent well before larger contracts -- and it's because replacing that effective talent is costly in time and resources and the likely mediocre picks are not much different than the package we'd get later in a S&T. We're basically placing ourselves further back on the treadmill.

There's a lot of video game thinking going on, where the... let's say, negative externalities of a movement are ignored, the value of unknown future picks are exaggerated. But ultimately this article doesn't even ask the operative question: Why now? And, no, the answer isn't 'stepping off the treadmill,' because it's just a different treadmill, and probably a worse one.

[Seventyniner]

One big takeaway I get from this trade is that the Spurs will probably use their cap space to absorb bad contracts and collect picks, not just this year but next year and maybe 2024 too.

For a while I thought the Spurs were lining up their cap space to be a major player in 2023 free agency, and without this Murray trade maybe that would have been the goal (to pivot into win-now mode).

The upshot is that, while Gallinari won't command a first by himself, he is useful salary ballast to absorb a bad contract and receive a pick. In usefulness as a player he is somewhere between Aminu and Thad Young. His contract is also more useful to a team looking to shed salary than McD, who has an extra year after this one.

[DPG21920]

Hmm... but this article doesn't actually ask, or answer, the actual question, which is why this trade needed to happen now.

It seems there's a lot of belief that this trade automatically makes the team a high lottery pick next year and instantly better in terms of long-term talent. It ignores how remaining talent may need to develop in a worse playing situation. We may not even be doing a 'tear down to the tacks' thing by shipping Poeltl and Keldon. The team may not actually be tremendously worse.

A lot of things are uncertain and still in play in terms of a future. The opportunity cost of two more years of All-Star play have been traded, again, for probably poor draft picks, with a roll of the dice that they will be better. We are also ignoring the impact on team psychology and fan base. When the message to players is that they will be moved if they are only 'very good,' this can become toxic. When an already squeamish fan base can't see the wisdom of dumping players, when do you get them back?

I think you, and many, are fetishizing 'treadmills' and some idea that a starting block is necessary for rebuilding, when the team was already rebuilding, and that a few spots in the lottery don't matter all that much, but that tearing down what is working does. There is a reason teams don't do trades like this -- ridding themselves of talent well before larger contracts -- and it's because replacing that effective talent is costly in time and resources and the likely mediocre picks are not much different than the package we'd get later in a S&T. We're basically placing ourselves further back on the treadmill.

There's a lot of video game thinking going on, where the... let's say, negative externalities of a movement are ignored, the value of unknown future picks are exaggerated. But ultimately this article doesn't even ask the operative question: Why now? And, no, the answer isn't 'stepping off the treadmill,' because it's just a different treadmill, and probably a worse one.

Bird in hand. There was no upside to waiting. Murray wasn’t going to become mvp and up his value any more. He could get injured or ATL move on etc…it met their asking price and no upside in waiting imo and I don’t even “love” the deal personally

[DPG21920]

Beyond that - it’s done heading into opening of FA so SA can confidently execute their plans now with what appears to be a clear direction.

I do wonder what deals they passed on during draft for Jakob or Richardson now though? If they didn’t trade them because they thought they’d keep Murray that’s a bummer. Volume will be slightly lower now that DJ is gone and teams know SA is moving guys. But not a huge deal - Murray value was priority 1-100.

[Mr. Body]

Bird in hand. There was no upside to waiting. Murray wasn’t going to become mvp and up his value any more. He could get injured or ATL move on etc…it met their asking price and no upside in waiting imo and I don’t even “love” the deal personally

Again, this fails to recognize all those potential externalities, which are high. What if Primo isn't ready and being forced into near-primary ballhandling duty wrecks his confidence? What if losing craters the spirits of the rest of the team and they start pushing to move on? There's a structure in place with a good player extant that doesn't get replaced with hopes and dreams.

I'm not saying dumping him for mediocre picks isn't a valid strategy. Obviously it's a strategy. I'm saying this video game logic has consequences everyone now cheering the thing on is ignoring. The "Why Now" is a very, very important question and no one is answering it. LJ has set himself up to answer any number of other questions but failed to regard this one so far. Because the answers aren't "cuz skinny French guy" or "automatically better draft results." The answer is actually "lots of unforeseen problems."

[rascal]

OO is easily more valuable than a lottery protected pick

OO was instead of one of the unprotected picks.

[John B]

DJ would only get this team so far, plus he’s a twitter-happy, not very Spursy. I rather Spurs jumped off the mediocrity threadmill and get 3 FRP’s for it. They can either use those to draft the next real player to build around, or even use as a package in case a disgruntled player like Donovan wants out (just an example).

Primo will be better than Murray. Murray’s game was flawed in so many ways, hesitant to attack the rim in contact and getting to the ft line, ball stuck in his hands, gambling on steals despite the steal leader resulting to his guy blowing pass him at times. I hate to say it, but Murray pads stats imo to get that all important AS nod, steal leader, individual glory. Primo has more steady hand at that age, is not impetous and seems more steady to be the captain of the ship. I know Pop believes so. He is a lottery pick the Spurs bet against all pundits. And I know Pop would love that opportunity to wipe it on those so called experts.

It’s truly the new era after that Kawhi debacle imo, which have left the franchise in disarray for 4 years. It’s 4 years overdue to finally blow it up than continue patching the leaks. And it’s the new beginning in the hands of Primo. It’s crazy but I think we might just see Obiwan Pop with his new Padawan turning a lot of heads :lol Or at least that’s what I told my wife when keeping the league pass :bobo

[baseline bum]

The Spurs didn't have to dump Murray to tank. He was the one guy on the team worth keeping into the future. You get rid of Poetl and Johnson and Murray plus a bunch of rookies isn't taking you farther than 25 wins. timvp what exactly are the Spurs seeing in Primo? You make it sound like they think he's another Tony Parker or something, but Parker was killing shit from the very beginning in summer league to the point Seattle came knocking with a Gary Payton offer like two games into the summer league.

[mo7888]

Again, this fails to recognize all those potential externalities, which are high. What if Primo isn't ready and being forced into near-primary ballhandling duty wrecks his confidence? What if losing craters the spirits of the rest of the team and they start pushing to move on? There's a structure in place with a good player extant that doesn't get replaced with hopes and dreams.

I'm not saying dumping him for mediocre picks isn't a valid strategy. Obviously it's a strategy. I'm saying this video game logic has consequences everyone now cheering the thing on is ignoring. The "Why Now" is a very, very important question and no one is answering it. LJ has set himself up to answer any number of other questions but failed to regard this one so far. Because the answers aren't "cuz skinny French guy" or "automatically better draft results." The answer is actually "lots of unforeseen problems."

There are two fallacies in your argument here...1) You point out all those 'what if's' but don't point out the 'what if's' in the other direction...what if DJ gets hurt? What if we can't find an allstar to pair with him? What if he regressed this year? (All are just as likely as the ones you pointed out) and 2) you keep declaring that we got mediocre picks...and that's flat out untrue... While the likelihood is that they will be late lottery picks in 25 26 and 27 they could be worse but being unprotected makes them very valuable as currency in future trades...we've heard for a week how we'd never get even 1 unprotected pick in a dj deal and yet we got 2 and an unprotected swap....thats quite the haul in today's market....and before you jump in and say...we'll never trade those Atlanta picks we'll wait and use them.... I'll point out that if one of our guys currently on the roster flashes all star type growth this year or next...and we add an all star talent in this draft with our own top 6 pick we could very well cash in that currency on a real current all star in 2 years....

The bottom line is that no matter how much whining people do here to justify their personal fan boy motives we are much closer to competing for a championship today than we were yesterday. There was no path to that while DJ was still here...now we have a shot at it with more work left to do...

[DPG21920]

Again, this fails to recognize all those potential externalities, which are high. What if Primo isn't ready and being forced into near-primary ballhandling duty wrecks his confidence? What if losing craters the spirits of the rest of the team and they start pushing to move on? There's a structure in place with a good player extant that doesn't get replaced with hopes and dreams.

I'm not saying dumping him for mediocre picks isn't a valid strategy. Obviously it's a strategy. I'm saying this video game logic has consequences everyone now cheering the thing on is ignoring. The "Why Now" is a very, very important question and no one is answering it. LJ has set himself up to answer any number of other questions but failed to regard this one so far. Because the answers aren't "cuz skinny French guy" or "automatically better draft results." The answer is actually "lots of unforeseen problems."

You may not like it, but that is the answer I gave you. Nothing, even the externalities you mentioned, superseded the importance of getting what SA wanted in a Murray deal. That was the singular most important thing, they got what they demanded which they didnt think they would and not taking that type of deal now put everything else at risk.

[DPG21920]

OO was instead of one of the unprotected picks.

Did you read what I wrote lol? I know that. Im saying SA should not have let them dictate that. Walk away if they hold firm on that vs subbing the CHA pick instead.

[RC_Drunkford]

Again, this fails to recognize all those potential externalities, which are high. What if Primo isn't ready and being forced into near-primary ballhandling duty wrecks his confidence? What if losing craters the spirits of the rest of the team and they start pushing to move on? There's a structure in place with a good player extant that doesn't get replaced with hopes and dreams.

I'm not saying dumping him for mediocre picks isn't a valid strategy. Obviously it's a strategy. I'm saying this video game logic has consequences everyone now cheering the thing on is ignoring. The "Why Now" is a very, very important question and no one is answering it. LJ has set himself up to answer any number of other questions but failed to regard this one so far. Because the answers aren't "cuz skinny French guy" or "automatically better draft results." The answer is actually "lots of unforeseen problems."

cause Pop got his record

[Mr. Body]

There are two fallacies in your argument here...1) You point out all those 'what if's' but don't point out the 'what if's' in the other direction...what if DJ gets hurt? What if we can't find an allstar to pair with him? What if he regressed this year? (All are just as likely as the ones you pointed out) and 2) you keep declaring that we got mediocre picks...and that's flat out untrue... While the likelihood is that they will be late lottery picks in 25 26 and 27 they could be worse but being unprotected makes them very valuable as currency in future trades...we've heard for a week how we'd never get even 1 unprotected pick in a dj deal and yet we got 2 and an unprotected swap....thats quite the haul in today's market....and before you jump in and say...we'll never trade those Atlanta picks we'll wait and use them.... I'll point out that if one of our guys currently on the roster flashes all star type growth this year or next...and we add an all star talent in this draft with our own top 6 pick we could very well cash in that currency on a real current all star in 2 years....

The bottom line is that no matter how much whining people do here to justify their personal fan boy motives we are much closer to competing for a championship today than we were yesterday. There was no path to that while DJ was still here...now we have a shot at it with more work left to do...

I don't really find any of those counter-arguments convincing, to be honest. One of the major reasons the Spurs development of young players has been so exceptional is because they are being nurtured in a strong, winning environment. Even if the wins aren't immediately forthcoming, the wins are important. Again, again, again, this video game logic of "there is no impact on young players" is tremendously mistaken.

[DPG21920]

I don't really find any of those counter-arguments convincing, to be honest. One of the major reasons the Spurs development of young players has been so exceptional is because they are being nurtured in a strong, winning environment. Even if the wins aren't immediately forthcoming, the wins are important. Again, again, again, this video game logic of "there is no impact on young players" is tremendously mistaken.

I think fans like to stick to platitudes like “mentorship” and “winning environment” because it sounds good vs it being measurable. Like with Mills and everyone talking about how valuable culture is. He left and SA won more games.

I dont believe, and SA does not either, that winning 33 games vs 22 games makes any difference. Do they want to be in that position? No, of course not. But it is what it is and the culture and winning environment stuff matters but only when you have a team in place for it to matter if that makes sense?

[Mr. Body]

You may not like it, but that is the answer I gave you. Nothing, even the externalities you mentioned, superseded the importance of getting what SA wanted in a Murray deal. That was the singular most important thing, they got what they demanded which they didnt think they would and not taking that type of deal now put everything else at risk.

Obviously those considerations didn't superseded my listed externalities: they made the trade. That happened. Clearly the pretend baubles Wright gets to play with in future drafts was more important than a nurturing environment with winning on the mind. Your argument here is: "thing happened because thing happened." I'm saying that they may have blown an entire team environment and team and player chemistry because they like to play draft.

[mo7888]

I don't really find any of those counter-arguments convincing, to be honest. One of the major reasons the Spurs development of young players has been so exceptional is because they are being nurtured in a strong, winning environment. Even if the wins aren't immediately forthcoming, the wins are important. Again, again, again, this video game logic of "there is no impact on young players" is tremendously mistaken.

We all know you don't find it convincing...that's crystal clear... but your argument isn't convincing or logical.... it seems emotionally rooted to me (and I'm not saying that as a criticism or labeling it as a bad thing) emotion generates fan interest in teams... I get that in the short term that we are setting that back a bit but even that will come back in balance the closer we get to the next draft... I look forward to you getting back on board then and providing some of the interesting and logical takes you present on here...

[DPG21920]

Obviously those considerations didn't superseded my listed externalities: they made the trade. That happened. Clearly the pretend baubles Wright gets to play with in future drafts was more important than a nurturing environment with winning on the mind. Your argument here is: "thing happened because thing happened." I'm saying that they may have blown an entire team environment and team and player chemistry because they like to play draft.

I mean, SA clearly does not like to play draft hence the DeRozan deal, holding onto LMA and Mills and Rudy etc…

They were losing. You can call 34 wins nurturing. Sure, its better than 20 wins, but its still not a winning environment is what I am saying. It’s losing.

[SpurSpike]

The only way this was a "deal the Spurs had to accept" is if Murray wanted out. Its the only reason that makes any sense.

[Mugen]

cause Pop got his record

This. All of a sudden he loves coaching the young guys, wonder what changed :lol

[Mr. Body]

We all know you don't find it convincing...that's crystal clear... but your argument isn't convincing or logical.... it seems emotionally rooted to me (and I'm not saying that as a criticism or labeling it as a bad thing) emotion generates fan interest in teams... I get that in the short term that we are setting that back a bit but even that will come back in balance the closer we get to the next draft... I look forward to you getting back on board then and providing some of the interesting and logical takes you present on here...

Again, here's your video game stuff. You're treating existing players like action figures. I don't really understand why people don't think there's an impact on the other players, the team culture, and that this will matter.

Is it because no one has ever played team basketball before? Is it because you've only played Xbox? Because these dreams and prayers are ignoring a tremendous amount of blowback that is already happening. Maybe, and hopefully, they will be soft blowback, but I guarantee you every member of this basketball team, including the rookies, are now questioning their stance regarding their future with this team, and they weren't doing that a week ago.

I've had the fortune to play and be in team environments, know long-term effects, and have actually paid attention to team psychology. It matters. I don't expect a lot of casual fans to really know or understand - of course not - but if you have any sense of how humans and organizations actually work, then you need to be aware of these issues.

[Mr. Body]

Anyway, I've said my piece.

Timvp didn't actually answer the question posed by his title: Why was this a deal they HAD to accept? Why this timing? Not answered or even asked.

Many people are intoxicated by three okay-ish draft picks and are ignoring a host of issues that will really begin to matter.

[rjv]

the spurs can play with all the pride they want this season but the current roster-prior to whatever FAs they may add-is not going to win a lot of games no matter how competitive they are. i don't even know if the spurs are any better than OKC or the kings at this point. a bottom five finish is not out of the question.

[cd98]

I think we all agree that if we take our Spurs blinders off, DJM was a nice player, but he's not a two hundred million dollar player. Well, I don't think he will produce like one on a championship team, but he clearly is a $200 million dollar player because someone will pay him that much. I like him and he was great for the Spurs and I hope he gets paid and I hope he is successful, but if the Spurs kept him and paid him $200 million, what else do they got that is going to make us anything more than a play in team or the 5-8 slot in the playoffs?

[mo7888]

Again, here's your video game stuff. You're treating existing players like action figures. I don't really understand why people don't think there's an impact on the other players, the team culture, and that this will matter.

Is it because no one has ever played team basketball before? Is it because you've only played Xbox? Because these dreams and prayers are ignoring a tremendous amount of blowback that is already happening. Maybe, and hopefully, they will be soft blowback, but I guarantee you every member of this basketball team, including the rookies, are now questioning their stance regarding their future with this team, and they weren't doing that a week ago.

I've had the fortune to play and be in team environments, know long-term effects, and have actually paid attention to team psychology. It matters. I don't expect a lot of casual fans to really know or understand - of course not - but if you have any sense of how humans and organizations actually work, then you need to be aware of these issues.

I don't play video games...it's not my bag... and no player on the team is questioning their stance regarding the future because of this deal. Every player has been educated by their representatives that this is a business and that they shouldn't be to emotionally attached to any team. In addition, every player just just got more opportunities on court to shine and they're happy about that no matter the posture they take in social media. Lastly, every player just saw a guy that developed into a player that going to get max money on their next deal...you can bet your sweet ass that every single one of them would be thrilled to be in a position to be developed to the point that they can get max money...and it won't hurt their feelings at all if they get it here or elsewhere...the only ones with their feelings hurt here are fans that don't fully grasp what's happening.

[Uriel]

I'm not entirely sure trading Murray away ensures the Spurs don't compete for the play-in tournament this year. Unless we also trade away Poeltl, it's possible that any wins lost by losing Murray would be offset by internal development from the rest of the team.

[Chinook]

There's no reason to assume the Spurs did anything other than do right by Murray. They were probably keen to take this deal because they knew it's where DJM wanted to go, and the window to make that happen was closing. Murray is not known for hiding his emotions, so the positive words and lack of shade are telling.

Also, Murray might've been in line for a DPE contract with another ASG appearance. Roughly speaking, that's $260M/5. The gap between that and what I think most fans would consider the max reasonable contract is pretty huge. DPE players arr very rarely worth their deals. Many of the worst contracts in the league were signed under that provision. Now that he's been traded, the DPE is no longer an option for him, which should narrow the negotiation window for ATL considerably.

I like OO, but to put it into perspective, he's like the size of early Thad Young. I've always been a huge Thad fan and was elated when he joined the Spurs, but his career has always been hampered by his lack of size and/or shooting. OO is going to have to navigate those same waters. I like him too and wanted him, but I could see the Spurs not being as enamored given they have plenty of time to find their future center and guys who can fill those minutes in the time being.

[MannyIsGod]

Lol yeah no one here has ever played basketball or any other team sports. Everyone on here just plays NBA 2k. I just wish I understood how missing the playoffs for several years in a row is a winning environment, tbh.

I'll say this. If they hold onto Jakob and Richardson or bring in free agents that aren't young prove it players then everyone should be critical af about this move. But I'd they're going to tank then so be it.

[baseline bum]

The only way this was a "deal the Spurs had to accept" is if Murray wanted out. Its the only reason that makes any sense.

Or if they didn't want to pay him, which makes more sense.

[offset formation]

Spoiler: He's not.

[RC_Drunkford]

I like that the Spurs finally picked a direction in an aggressive way. But they better be coming up with the worst record in the NBA while collecting more assets. If they can get their hands on Wembanyama than this was a good move, cause he looks like a game changer for any franchise that gets him

[offset formation]

Or if they didn't want to pay him, which makes more sense.

If they weren't going to trade DJ, PATFO isn't saying Primo is the PG of the future, and the Spurs don't draft a second ball heavy guard with their last FRP.

[offset formation]

I like that the Spurs finally picked a direction in an aggressive way. But they better be coming up with the worst record in the NBA while collecting more assets. If they can get their hands on Wembanyama than this was a good move, cause he looks like a game changer for any franchise that gets him

He appears to be the third coming, fourth if you count Durant

[baseline bum]

Also, Murray might've been in line for a DPE contract with another ASG appearance. Roughly speaking, that's $260M/5. The gap between that and what I think most fans would consider the max reasonable contract is pretty huge. DPE players arr very rarely worth their deals. Many of the worst contracts in the league were signed under that provision. Now that he's been traded, the DPE is no longer an option for him, which should narrow the negotiation window for ATL considerably.

If the Spurs thought Murray and Klutch would be DPE or bust with the Spurs then moving him was the right move. Not convinced they'd be demanding that though, would have been a completely unrealistic demand and would have been akin to Murray being unhappy here but not wanting to say so.

[Mugen]

I like that the Spurs finally picked a direction in an aggressive way. But they better be coming up with the worst record in the NBA while collecting more assets. If they can get their hands on Wembanyama than this was a good move, cause he looks like a game changer for any franchise that gets him

Too early to call that tbh. We'll know more after free agency IMO.

[KingKev]

Hmm... but this article doesn't actually ask, or answer, the actual question, which is why this trade needed to happen now.

It seems there's a lot of belief that this trade automatically makes the team a high lottery pick next year and instantly better in terms of long-term talent. It ignores how remaining talent may need to develop in a worse playing situation. We may not even be doing a 'tear down to the tacks' thing by shipping Poeltl and Keldon. The team may not actually be tremendously worse.

A lot of things are uncertain and still in play in terms of a future. The opportunity cost of two more years of All-Star play have been traded, again, for probably poor draft picks, with a roll of the dice that they will be better. We are also ignoring the impact on team psychology and fan base. When the message to players is that they will be moved if they are only 'very good,' this can become toxic. When an already squeamish fan base can't see the wisdom of dumping players, when do you get them back?

I think you, and many, are fetishizing 'treadmills' and some idea that a starting block is necessary for rebuilding, when the team was already rebuilding, and that a few spots in the lottery don't matter all that much, but that tearing down what is working does. There is a reason teams don't do trades like this -- ridding themselves of talent well before larger contracts -- and it's because replacing that effective talent is costly in time and resources and the likely mediocre picks are not much different than the package we'd get later in a S&T. We're basically placing ourselves further back on the treadmill.

There's a lot of video game thinking going on, where the... let's say, negative externalities of a movement are ignored, the value of unknown future picks are exaggerated. But ultimately this article doesn't even ask the operative question: Why now? And, no, the answer isn't 'stepping off the treadmill,' because it's just a different treadmill, and probably a worse one.

Article just timvp patting himself on the back in a Coach Pop manner.

Sniffers gon’ sniff

[MultiTroll]

Anyway, I've said my piece.

Timvp didn't actually answer the question posed by his title: Why was this a deal they HAD to accept? Why this timing? Not answered or even asked.

Many people are intoxicated by three okay-ish draft picks and are ignoring a host of issues that will really begin to matter.
No better offers were going to come?

I don't believe that for a second.

OP?

[KingKev]

I'm not entirely sure trading Murray away ensures the Spurs don't compete for the play-in tournament this year. Unless we also trade away Poeltl, it's possible that any wins lost by losing Murray would be offset by internal development from the rest of the team.

and Sochan filling a massive hole at the 4. This is still a treadmill team destined for competitive mediocrity.

[XDT76]

It's confusing here almost no one thinks that DjM will be top 2 player in a contending team but thinks that he deserve a Max contract.

[Drom John]

FiveThirtyRaptor WAR 1 minute minimum

138) +2.8 Maxi Kleiber, Onyeka Okongwu, Kevin Porter, Jr.

[Mugen]

You're basically praying Dejounte walks in 2024 and Trae's ACL blows up in preseason that year. Otherwise, I don't think those picks are any better than late lottery tbh

[exstatic]

The Spurs didn't have to dump Murray to tank. He was the one guy on the team worth keeping into the future. You get rid of Poetl and Johnson and Murray plus a bunch of rookies isn't taking you farther than 25 wins. timvp what exactly are the Spurs seeing in Primo? You make it sound like they think he's another Tony Parker or something, but Parker was killing shit from the very beginning in summer league to the point Seattle came knocking with a Gary Payton offer like two games into the summer league.

Tony Parker played pro ball against grown men from the ages of 16-19. Josh has played one season against grown men.

[Trill Clinton]

The only way this was a "deal the Spurs had to accept" is if Murray wanted out. Its the only reason that makes any sense.

He did. Spurs were not and should not pay him the max in 2 years. He gave us a 2 year heads up unlike kawhi and we were able to get 3 1sts out of the deal vs nothing.

[vy65]

There are two fallacies in your argument here...1) You point out all those 'what if's' but don't point out the 'what if's' in the other direction...what if DJ gets hurt? What if we can't find an allstar to pair with him? What if he regressed this year? (All are just as likely as the ones you pointed out) and 2) you keep declaring that we got mediocre picks...and that's flat out untrue... While the likelihood is that they will be late lottery picks in 25 26 and 27 they could be worse but being unprotected makes them very valuable as currency in future trades...we've heard for a week how we'd never get even 1 unprotected pick in a dj deal and yet we got 2 and an unprotected swap....thats quite the haul in today's market....and before you jump in and say...we'll never trade those Atlanta picks we'll wait and use them.... I'll point out that if one of our guys currently on the roster flashes all star type growth this year or next...and we add an all star talent in this draft with our own top 6 pick we could very well cash in that currency on a real current all star in 2 years....

The bottom line is that no matter how much whining people do here to justify their personal fan boy motives we are much closer to competing for a championship today than we were yesterday. There was no path to that while DJ was still here...now we have a shot at it with more work left to do...

There's two things going on here: 1) whether the trade, in and of itself, was good or bad and 2) whether the direction of the team, as signaled by the trade, is good or bad. As to 2), I agree with you that this signals a commitment to tank as opposed to being mediocre, and is the right course of action. I disagree that being a 34-48 team playing as the 10th seed in a meaningless tournament is conducive to any sort of winning culture.

Now as to the trade, I don't understand why everyone thinks that the Hawks are going to be mediocre in 3-5 years. They have a young core: Young is 23, Collins is 24, DJM is 25, Huerter is 23, and De'Andre Hunter is 24). In 5 years, the only one who'll be 30 is DJM, with the rest of the team entering or being in their prime. With this trade, ATL has signaled a commitment to keeping that core together. The Nets (Kyrie and KD), 76ers (Harden), Bulls (DD), and possibly the Raptors (OG) have large question marks about their future. I don't think anyone believes the Hawks will be winning the East, but it's entirely reasonable for them to be a top-10 team for the next half decade. That leaves us with 2 picks in the upper teens to lower 20s. The swap is a toss up, but likely not to be exercised as it should be in the teens to lower 20s. And the Hornets pick is going to convert to second rounders. I don't see how two non-lottery first round picks is good value for Murray.

[exstatic]

The only way this was a "deal the Spurs had to accept" is if Murray wanted out. Its the only reason that makes any sense.

He was grabbing the bag in 2024. You might choose to see that as wanting out, since the Spurs, smartly, would have no interest in MAXing him out. Their bargaining position would be like Kawhi if they didn’t get ahead of this.

[rjv]

Tony Parker played pro ball against grown men from the ages of 16-19. Josh has played one season against grown men.

yeah, so many posters seem to ignore this very crucial fact. parker was prepared for the NBA in a way that most fresh out of college players are no where near being.

[mo7888]

There's two things going on here: 1) whether the trade, in and of itself, was good or bad and 2) whether the direction of the team, as signaled by the trade, is good or bad. As to 2), I agree with you that this signals a commitment to tank as opposed to being mediocre, and is the right course of action. I disagree that being a 34-48 team playing as the 10th seed in a meaningless tournament is conducive to any sort of winning culture.

Now as to the trade, I don't understand why everyone thinks that the Hawks are going to be mediocre in 3-5 years. They have a young core: Young is 23, Collins is 24, DJM is 25, Huerter is 23, and De'Andre Hunter is 24). In 5 years, the only one who'll be 30 is DJM, with the rest of the team entering or being in their prime. With this trade, ATL has signaled a commitment to keeping that core together. The Nets (Kyrie and KD), 76ers (Harden), Bulls (DD), and possibly the Raptors (OG) have large question marks about their future. I don't think anyone believes the Hawks will be winning the East, but it's entirely reasonable for them to be a top-10 team for the next half decade. That leaves us with 2 picks in the upper teens to lower 20s. The swap is a toss up, but likely not to be exercised as it should be in the teens to lower 20s. And the Hornets pick is going to convert to second rounders. I don't see how two non-lottery first round picks is good value for Murray.

For clarification- I don't think being a 10th seed in the tournament is conducive for a winning culture either...that was the guy I was replying to who thought that..

[TD 21]

Yeah. I don't get the consternation over the trading of him, but the contention over not getting a degree of certainty makes sense . . . and yet, they probably are better off doing what they did over getting Okongwu.

I just feel uneasy, especially with their luck, that none of these picks end up particularly valuable. Of course, even then, they could nail one and get a core piece or package some for one, but in the moment it's difficult to think like that.

[rjv]

what's this i'm reading about the hawks looking to expand this trade even more?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It's confusing here almost no one thinks that DjM will be top 2 player in a contending team but thinks that he deserve a Max contract.

Because there are way more max contracts than second bananas on championship contender teams.

[cjw]

Yeah. I don't get the consternation over the trading of him, but the contention over not getting a degree of certainty makes sense . . . and yet, they probably are better off doing what they did over getting Okongwu.

I just feel uneasy, especially with their luck, that none of these picks end up particularly valuable. Of course, even then, they could nail one and get a core piece or package some for one, but in the moment it's difficult to think like that.

Okongwu is pretty much a waste as long as Poeltl is on the roster as they’re redundant. And if you end up with a center prospect you like better in the future, you move on from OO. Lack of shooting and positional flexibility really limits roster construction.

I like him as a player, but the right move was to stay off him.

[cjw]

what's this i'm reading about the hawks looking to expand this trade even more?

Likely targeting another incoming guy where the outgoing salary doesn’t match. Using Gallo’s higher outgoing salary as part of same trade may help them here. That’s why most of these agreed-to moves don’t get executed right away. I guess?

[BatManu20]

Not even getting OO is a kick in the nuts. Basically gotta pray that it doesn’t work out and that Dejounte dips in a couple years. But I really don’t see that happening. They traded for him with the understanding that he’s going to be there for a long time, and I’m sure this was discussed thoroughly. Of course things can change, but odds are in favor of him staying in ATL for a while.

[timvp]

Timvp didn't actually answer the question posed by his title: Why was this a deal they HAD to accept? Why this timing?

As I wrote, Dejounte Murray's trade value was never going to be higher than it was yesterday. Still young. Two full seasons under contract. Underpaid for both seasons. Coming off of an All-Star appearance. Drastic improvements in each season he's been in the league. Like I said, Murray could become a better basketball player next season and he still wouldn't be as valuable as he was when the Spurs made the trade. Yesterday was San Antonio's chance to sell high on Dejounte.

I know you posted multiple times that the Spurs would never get unprotected picks from the Hawks. Well, they did ... but the Spurs had to strike while the iron was hot. The iron was hottest yesterday. Even if they tried to draw it out for a few days, the bidding war would have cooled because other teams would have moved on to alternate targets in free agency. The Spurs had a captivated audience of bidding teams and an asset at the absolute peak of his value. That's why, if the Spurs wanted to get max value for Dejounte, they had to accept the deal.

[timvp]

Agree mostly timvp. Disagree with the framing of the OO part of negotiations.

My instant reaction was similar. OO would have been a really nice get.

But ... the more I think about it, the more I agree with the front office's decision. First, no way you trade OO for a unprotected pick. That'd be terrible asset management. Second, OO is the exact type of floor raiser the Spurs shouldn't want. It's why Poeltl is actively being shopped right now. You don't want floor raisers when trying to max out the value of your draft picks. Moreover, while OO is a floor raiser, I don't see him as a significant part of a contending team. So, in reality, he's the worst possible type of player for the Spurs to add: someone who will make it difficult to be really bad but who also won't help them become really good.

[John B]

My instant reaction was similar. OO would have been a really nice get.

But ... the more I think about it, the more I agree with the front office's decision. First, no way you trade OO for a unprotected pick. That'd be terrible asset management. Second, OO is the exact type of floor raiser the Spurs shouldn't want. It's why Poeltl is actively being shopped right now. You don't want floor raisers when trying to max out the value of your draft picks. Moreover, while OO is a floor raiser, I don't see him as a significant part of a contending team. So, in reality, he's the worst possible type of player for the Spurs to add: someone who will make it difficult to be really bad but who also won't help them become really good.

Wow. It’s expected but it still surreal when Spurs start gutting the team

[RC_Drunkford]

bottom line is if the Spurs embrace the tank and get top 3 lottery odds to draft a franchise player in 2023 then this trade makes sense, regardless on how the picks pan out. Ideal scenario is they get Wembanyama and they basically have all the pieces in the pipeline while having cap space and a whole lotta future picks and swaps. Let Wembanyama hit the weight room for 3 years and by 2026 this should be a playoff team again

[offset formation]

I know many on this board stated before last season that this last season was the first time in a long time that they had felt excited to watch. I wasn't one of those folks because I expected to be whelmed by mediocrity, and that's precisely what happened.

However, I am now officially fucking stoked to watch all these new cats get out there and play, make mistakes, learn, and get better. And do all of it with athleticism we haven't seen in years. Plus with each loss, we move one day closer to having a franchise player to pull us out of the doldrums. Dare I say, maybe even the next NBA megastar.

[John B]

I know many on this board stated before last season that this last season was the first time in a long time that they had felt excited to watch. I wasn't one of those folks because I expected to be whelmed by mediocrity, and that's precisely what happened.

However, I am now officially fucking stoked to watch all these new cats get out there and play, make mistakes, learn, and get better. And do all of it with athleticism we haven't seen in years. Plus with each loss, we move one day closer to having a franchise player to pull us out of the doldrums. Dare I say, maybe even the next NBA megastar.

I’m with you brotha :bobo. Obiwan Pop with his Padawan Primo to lead the way. ESPN would be clamoring for their cheat sheets for the names

[exstatic]

Wow. It’s expected but it still surreal when Spurs start gutting the team

Gutting is probably too strong, but anyone who likely wants more than they want to pay is probably out the door.

[TDomination]

and Sochan filling a massive hole at the 4. This is still a treadmill team destined for competitive mediocrity.

Exactly what I'm fearing

Trading Murray most definitely does not guarantee a tank. There were times where this team looked better with Jones running the point vs Murray. This team was already young and already rebuilding. With so many versatile guards, losing Dejounte won't be noticed as much vs losing someone like Poeltl, who we have no one to replace with. And no Collins is no where near the defensive player Poeltl is.

And adding Sochan gives us size so we may in fact be better now next year vs last year.

IMO this was a terrible move. If the plan was to tank, should've traded Poeltl instead of Murray.

If we do end up tanking then ill give them their props but the spurs in their current state i don't think will be bottom 5. Bottom 10 probably but not bottom 5.

[John B]

I know many on this board stated before last season that this last season was the first time in a long time that they had felt excited to watch. I wasn't one of those folks because I expected to be whelmed by mediocrity, and that's precisely what happened.

However, I am now officially fucking stoked to watch all these new cats get out there and play, make mistakes, learn, and get better. And do all of it with athleticism we haven't seen in years. Plus with each loss, we move one day closer to having a franchise player to pull us out of the doldrums. Dare I say, maybe even the next NBA megastar.

I have to say, I’ve been a Spurs fan since DRob rookie year. And for many fans, that’s a lifetime. We haven’t seen the Spurs rebuild like this. Will know more today and the following days ahead whose names will be dotting silver and black. But it’s fair to say, they will mostly be young and inexperienced. And knowing Pop, they will be playing hard, not like these other “tanking teams”. Not since DRob and Elliott Spurs started two rookies, with 2nd year player Willie. Let’s see.

[Mugen]

Trade away Jakob and don't bring anybody noteworthy back and I'll feel a lot better about them finishing bottom 5 next year tbh.

[TDomination]

My instant reaction was similar. OO would have been a really nice get.

But ... the more I think about it, the more I agree with the front office's decision. First, no way you trade OO for a unprotected pick. That'd be terrible asset management. Second, OO is the exact type of floor raiser the Spurs shouldn't want. It's why Poeltl is actively being shopped right now. You don't want floor raisers when trying to max out the value of your draft picks. Moreover, while OO is a floor raiser, I don't see him as a significant part of a contending team. So, in reality, he's the worst possible type of player for the Spurs to add: someone who will make it difficult to be really bad but who also won't help them become really good.

is this true? how hard are they looking to move him?

if poeltl is traded, then yeah tank is on.

[bigfan]

All in all it makes sense but admitting that we are now rebuilding is a bitter pill to swallow. DJM seemed a very good player and a good guy as well, wish him all the best.

[jjspur]

I'm not entirely sure trading Murray away ensures the Spurs don't compete for the play-in tournament this year. Unless we also trade away Poeltl, it's possible that any wins lost by losing Murray would be offset by internal development from the rest of the team.

I agree. My hope is that the spurs win more than 10 games next year so that they don't set a record for the most losses in a season, but my real hope is that they win 35 or more games next year proving that purposely tanking is just stupid and a strategy that should be avoided, Sixers won any championships yet ? Close only counts in horseshoes and grenades.

Ask yourself, other than for the money how many players want to sign with Sacramento, after all they've basically tanked and been in the lottery for the last 15 years. Where has tanking gotten them ? Answer nowhere. Does this team really want to go in that direction ?

Maybe the remaining spurs have enough pride to try and win games rather than tanking for a player or players that will someday replace them.

[RC_Drunkford]

I agree. My hope is that the spurs win more than 10 games next year so that they don't set a record for the most losses in a season, but my real hope is that they win 35 or more games next year proving that purposely tanking is just stupid and a strategy that should be avoided, Sixers won any championships yet ? Close only counts in horseshoes and grenades.

Ask yourself, other than for the money how many players want to sign with Sacramento, after all they've basically tanked and been in the lottery for the last 15 years. Where has tanking gotten them ? Answer nowhere. Does this team really want to go in that direction ?

Maybe the remaining spurs have enough pride to try and win games rather than tanking for a player or players that will someday replace them.

winning 35 games would be worst case scenario tbh. They should try to win no more than 25

[jjspur]

winning 35 games would be worst case scenario tbh. They should try to win no more than 25

At that point Sacramento might be better than the spurs and would truly be a shame.

[jeebus]

They should try

Ain't no trying about it. The team is going to be fucking awful lmao

[TekXX]

My only hope is that if they commit to tanking then they need to tank. There's some ruthless coaches in this league that will be god awful to get Victor. The 14% chance might turn into our saving grace

[JPB]

Love how some posters are trashing the FO for the "bad" Murray trade while basically the rest of the NBA applauses and aknowledge they won it. Lots of things we don't know, or didn't like the unprotected picks or Murray possibly telling spurs he wasn't signing an extension (which would in itself justify the trade)

Ultimately, yeah they had to do it. Now, what really determines the value of this trade will be ofc be who they get and what they to with the reservoir of picks.

[John B]

My only hope is that if they commit to tanking then they need to tank. There's some ruthless coaches in this league that will be god awful to get Victor. The 14% chance might turn into our saving grace
Spurs
do
not
tank
not
in
their
DNA

The Spurs could be playing the rookies, and still would play hard knowing it's Pop's team. Next year will be about teaching, but they will not purposely lose a game.

[exstatic]

Exactly what I'm fearing

Trading Murray most definitely does not guarantee a tank. There were times where this team looked better with Jones running the point vs Murray. This team was already young and already rebuilding. With so many versatile guards, losing Dejounte won't be noticed as much vs losing someone like Poeltl, who we have no one to replace with. And no Collins is no where near the defensive player Poeltl is.

And adding Sochan gives us size so we may in fact be better now next year vs last year.

IMO this was a terrible move. If the plan was to tank, should've traded Poeltl instead of Murray.

If we do end up tanking then ill give them their props but the spurs in their current state i don't think will be bottom 5. Bottom 10 probably but not bottom 5.

According to LJ, Poeltl is on the block. Hopefully, they move quickly, but I don’t see him here past the deadline in Feb. they would lose him for nothing in that case.

Players going out, picks coming back. Players coming in, with picks to offset the salary. That’s all we need to be doing.

[TekXX]

Spurs
do
not
tank
not
in
their
DNA

The Spurs could be playing the rookies, and still would play hard knowing it's Pop's team. Next year will be about teaching, but they will not purposely lose a game.

Hmm sure looks like a tank, i guess it's tank by sheer lack of good players.

[JPB]

My only hope is that if they commit to tanking then they need to tank. There's some ruthless coaches in this league that will be god awful to get Victor. The 14% chance might turn into our saving grace

Victor just changed team and will join long time french NT coach Collet who's know for his capacity to play youngsters and ability to develop them (he's the one who launched Batum at 18) That should be a long year of salivation for NBA GMs. (that is if he's not injury prone).

[slick'81]

Obviously the point is to tank. Otherwise murray clearly told sa im going to test fa. Either way i can understand why the spurs did it. The sniffers are in full force up in here though

[The Truth #6]

It’s hard for me to get frustrated about this trade now that we are finally finding a path and in my opinion making solid moves (trading DDR, trading White, trading DJM, this most recent draft, all of which were wins for the team).

The outrage is the bumbling of the Kawhi trade and the frustration of the DDR era. I’ve moved on from that trauma, so I’m good now. Lol. I’ve come full circle on Brian Wright. He’s not perfect but he’s in the game and doing work and moving the team in a better direction now. It sucks that we just now seem to doing what we needed to do but I can’t complain about what we’re now doing.

Let’s see what they get for Yak next…

[John B]

Hmm sure looks like a tank, i guess it's tank by sheer lack of good players.

Technically, but you'd never see Spurs hoist 3 pointers and not play defense like the Rockets.

[exstatic]

Technically, but you'd never see Spurs hoist 3 pointers and not play defense like the Rockets.

They’re lowering their floor, but they’ll never not play hard.

[slick'81]

They’re lowering their floor, but they’ll never not play hard.

hopefully there is no "floor" and the bottom falls out

[MultiTroll]

the Spurs had to strike while the iron was hot. The iron was hottest yesterday. Even if they tried to draw it out for a few days, the bidding war would have cooled because other teams would have moved on to alternate targets in free agency. The Spurs had a captivated audience of bidding teams and an asset at the absolute peak of his value.
If indeed Spurs sold at height, that's great. 1st time in 5 years since Zaza that has happened.

However how can you say for a certainty that teams in the hunt in 22-23 including during the season / playoff push wouldn't have coughed up more?

Well aware of bird in bush theory so if this indeed was As Good As it Gets, then bravo.

Just seems Murray with his legit All Star, salary and age would be worth a hell of a lot more then 3 picks in the 20s and another McForbesbot.

[slick'81]

If indeed Spurs sold at height, that's great. 1st time in 5 years since Zaza that has happened.

However how can you say for a certainty that teams in the hunt in 22-23 including during the season / playoff push wouldn't have coughed up more?

Well aware of bird in bush theory so if this indeed was As Good As it Gets, then bravo.

Just seems Murray with his legit All Star, salary and age would be worth a hell of a lot more then 3 picks in the 20s and another McForbesbot.

you can easily argue either side. There is no definitive answer

[The Truth #6]

Throwing Primo into the fire as point guard next year feels like a great opportunity to get losses and a high draft pick.

[timvp]

If indeed Spurs sold at height, that's great. 1st time in 5 years since Zaza that has happened.

However how can you say for a certainty that teams in the hunt in 22-23 including during the season / playoff push wouldn't have coughed up more?

Well aware of bird in bush theory so if this indeed was As Good As it Gets, then bravo.

Just seems Murray with his legit All Star, salary and age would be worth a hell of a lot more then 3 picks in the 20s and another McForbesbot.

Two (potentially three) unprotected picks via the Atlanta Freakin' Hawks. We're really going to pencil in those picks to be in the 20s when the first one isn't for three years? Dooming Spurs fans suddenly acting like the Hawks acquired prime Duncan. :lol

I mean, if you were to make a list of organizations that you'd want to acquire unprotected first rounders from that don't convey for three years, the Hawks would be somewhere near the top of that list, IMO.

[mo7888]

Two (potentially three) unprotected picks via the Atlanta Freakin' Hawks. We're really going to pencil in those picks to be in the 20s when the first one isn't for three years? Dooming Spurs fans suddenly acting like the Hawks acquired prime Duncan. :lol

I mean, if you were to make a list of organizations that you'd want to acquire unprotected first rounders from that don't convey for three years, the Hawks would be somewhere near the top of that list, IMO.

Are you gonna be dropping any info you're hearing about our FA/trade plans before free agency opens in a couple hours?

[TD 21]

Okongwu is pretty much a waste as long as Poeltl is on the roster as they’re redundant. And if you end up with a center prospect you like better in the future, you move on from OO. Lack of shooting and positional flexibility really limits roster construction.

I like him as a player, but the right move was to stay off him.

Poeltl should be traded immediately.


Two (potentially three) unprotected picks via the Atlanta Freakin' Hawks. We're really going to pencil in those picks to be in the 20s when the first one isn't for three years? Dooming Spurs fans suddenly acting like the Hawks acquired prime Duncan. :lol

I mean, if you were to make a list of organizations that you'd want to acquire unprotected first rounders from that don't convey for three years, the Hawks would be somewhere near the top of that list, IMO.

Fine and we know things can and often do change in the blink of an eye in this league, but based on the information at hand today, you can't deny that the Hawks look set up to be solid long term and that there's a possibility if not getting a significant asset out of this.

[Atl Spur]

The spurs aren’t tanking………this market is shaping up to help us immensely. Brian’s got this

[Atl Spur]

Josh said this team will have many ball handlers who attack……Ben might be coming��

[timvp]

Yikes, Dejounte's value would have plummeted the second KD asked for a trade. Close call, tbh.

[Mugen]

Yikes, Dejounte's value would have plummeted the second KD asked for a trade. Close call, tbh.

This. The Hawks would have rerouted those assets to go all in on a KD tbh.

[KingKev]

Two (potentially three) unprotected picks via the Atlanta Freakin' Hawks. We're really going to pencil in those picks to be in the 20s when the first one isn't for three years? Dooming Spurs fans suddenly acting like the Hawks acquired prime Duncan. :lol

I mean, if you were to make a list of organizations that you'd want to acquire unprotected first rounders from that don't convey for three years, the Hawks would be somewhere near the top of that list, IMO.

You know who else would be at the top LJ? The Spurs

[timvp]

You know who else would be at the top LJ? The Spurs

Yeah, that's the point.

[KingKev]

Yeah, that's the point.

I meant the last 2-3 years but touche.

[RC_Drunkford]

1542625238512549889

1542625238512549889

1542625577194213377

1542624215710552064

1542627994501615618

1542626238128422919

[spurs10]

I like knowing our direction and agree our chances to ever be a contender in the next decade are improved.

[XDT76]

Because there are way more max contracts than second bananas on championship contender teams.

If you are not contending and offer a player max contract, that is almost a sure way to ensure your team being shitty.

[timvp]

Spurs say Dejounte Murray deal was one they couldn’t refuse

expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-say-Dejounte-Murray-deal-was-one-they-17277906.php

Inside the gym, assistant Mitch Johnson put the Spurs’ Summer League squad through its paces.

Head coach Gregg Popovich poked his head in to watch. R.C. Buford, the organization’s chief executive officer, wandered through while casually munching on a banana.

Mugen :lol

[slick'81]

So so the hawks would of opted for kd instead?

[Mugen]

:lmao

I can't wait to see what kind of shit RC is going be snacking on this Summer League tbh.

[Mugen]

So so the hawks would of opted for kd instead?

Yeah, I'd think so :lol

[slick'81]

Yeah, I'd think so :lol

Assuming kd was down for that, makes sense

[poopbox]

Yikes, Dejounte's value would have plummeted the second KD asked for a trade. Close call, tbh.

Why? Kd can only play for one team and I am fairly certain that team would not be for Atlanta. As soon as he signed wherever then that Hawk deal would have been back on the table. Probably never would have come off the table to begin with.

[T Park]

:lmao

I can't wait to see what kind of shit RC is going be snacking on this Summer League tbh.

He was big on the ice chips in the games I saw last year ��

[T Park]

:lmao

I can't wait to see what kind of shit RC is going be snacking on this Summer League tbh.

He was big on the ice chips in the games I saw last year 😂

[slick'81]

Just lose baby. #1 pick next draft is the franchise alterer

[Russ]

Kd can only play for one team and I am fairly certain that team would not be for Atlanta.

Maybe KD is angling to join the Spurs juggernaut.

[slick'81]

Why? Kd can only play for one team and I am fairly certain that team would not be for Atlanta. As soon as he signed wherever then that Hawk deal would have been back on the table. Probably never would have come off the table to begin with.


such a close call,tbh

[SAGirl]

That line you wrote: “ultimately if the Spurs want to return to contention the worst place to be is mediocrity.” So many of us had pointed this out for years, while the “sniff” crew (I hate that pejorative term, but you know who you are defended the team choice of “remaining” competitive. Bottom line, they realize they aren’t competitive and haven’t been, and it’s time to do what they should have done sooner. It hurts more now bc Murray is truly a player that the team developed, since he was so raw offensively coming in… and years down the road, the team had to move on from him to truly rebuild. Not his fault. He actually replenished the Spurs coffers on his way out in a trade with a draft day haul. It was always going to hurt to be awful and less talented than most. It wasn’t ever going to be pretty once the big 3 retired and Kawhi asked for that trade… it’s just been a lot longer and the Spurs still had to do what had to be done: start over from scratch.

It hurts now, but I’ll get over it in time. It’s just a little hypothetical to admit now that mediocrity is the worse place to be while defending the prior experience for so long.

[SAGirl]

Also, yea after KD asked to be traded, no way this happens… These tardes don’t come off every year, even injuries which are by nature unexpected can affect a trade. The Spurs had to grab this and run. It’s actually quite the haul.

[Russ]

These tardes don’t come off every year,. . .

Don't be so sure.

(I've been around here for a while.)

[objective]

I am dubious that Durant would have impacted Atlanta's offer for Murray.

But anyways, I might have to post my ultimate manifesto on why the trade was not good, or at least, the process was not good. Obviously if the Hawks charter crashes in the Andes on a preseason tour of South America and Trae, Huerter and Collins end up eaten then the unprotected picks become a lot more valuable. Maybe I'll get to it this weekend, or never. Whatever.

[R. DeMurre]

That line you wrote: “ultimately if the Spurs want to return to contention the worst place to be is mediocrity.” So many of us had pointed this out for years, while the “sniff” crew (I hate that pejorative term, but you know who you are defended the team choice of “remaining” competitive. Bottom line, they realize they aren’t competitive and haven’t been, and it’s time to do what they should have done sooner. It hurts more now bc Murray is truly a player that the team developed, since he was so raw offensively coming in… and years down the road, the team had to move on from him to truly rebuild. Not his fault. He actually replenished the Spurs coffers on his way out in a trade with a draft day haul. It was always going to hurt to be awful and less talented than most. It wasn’t ever going to be pretty once the big 3 retired and Kawhi asked for that trade… it’s just been a lot longer and the Spurs still had to do what had to be done: start over from scratch.




Agree 100%. It was less than 3 months ago when anyone suggesting the Spurs should secure a lottery pick and avoid the 10th spot/play in game was declared to have a "loser's mentality" by some on this board. Now, less than 100 days later, the full tank, hope for a 25 win season, and potentially a 14% shot at a #1 pick is the Holy Grail of team management for the future. The Spurs were better three years in a row with DeMar DeRozan off the floor vs DeRozan on the floor, but they stuck with him anyway-- that's the frustrating part of this. Oh well, I wanted Sochan, so I'll just root for him & the rest of the young crew to develop and grow, and we'll see what happens in the next few drafts. Giannis won in his 8th season, so if the Spurs beat the odds and land Wembanyama next summer maybe we're looking at a 2032 championship with a veteran 32 year old Devin Vassell as the elder statesman of the team.

[tbdog]

Agree 100%. It was less than 3 months ago when anyone suggesting the Spurs should secure a lottery pick and avoid the 10th spot/play in game was declared to have a "loser's mentality" by some on this board. Now, less than 100 days later, the full tank, hope for a 25 win season, and potentially a 14% shot at a #1 pick is the Holy Grail of team management for the future. The Spurs were better three years in a row with DeMar DeRozan off the floor vs DeRozan on the floor, but they stuck with him anyway-- that's the frustrating part of this. Oh well, I wanted Sochan, so I'll just root for him & the rest of the young crew to develop and grow, and we'll see what happens in the next few drafts. Giannis won in his 8th season, so if the Spurs beat the odds and land Wembanyama next summer maybe we're looking at a 2032 championship with a veteran 32 year old Devin Vassell as the elder statesman of the team.

There is a difference between wanting to lose and not being good enough to win.

[R. DeMurre]

There is a difference between wanting to lose and not being good enough to win.


It would've been a simple case of resting the better players and giving the younger players more run and experience... the exact same strategy that is being put in place for next season, except replace "resting" with "trading," especially if the reports on Poeltl are true.

[tbdog]

It would've been a simple case of resting the better players and giving the younger players more run and experience... the exact same strategy that is being put in place for next season, except replace "resting" with "trading," especially if the reports on Poeltl are true.

Our better players were the youngsters. We were even starting the youngest player in the league by the end. What more did you want?

[KingKev]

DJ intro presser at 2:30pm eastern on NBA TV….

[KingKev]

Can’t be watching this presser and not tell me they fked up.

[John B]

No love lost here

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1542936201115607046?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1542936201115607046%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnba%2Fspurs%2Fn ews%2Fsan-antonio-dejounte-murray-trade-atlanta-hawks-trae-young-gregg-popovich-free-agency

[slick'81]

No love lost here

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1542936201115607046?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1542936201115607046%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnba%2Fspurs%2Fn ews%2Fsan-antonio-dejounte-murray-trade-atlanta-hawks-trae-young-gregg-popovich-free-agency

bruh, we hd to do it. Kd was all but going to atlanta

[John B]

bruh, we hd to do it. Kd was all but going to atlanta

Yeah, just it sucks not to be the preferred team. I mean DW was shocked at being moved. He thought he was gonna play his whole career in SA, thinking he’s not wanted. While DJ’s all giddy, talking 2-3 weeks planning with Trae, excited. “Spurs for life” Fck that :flipoff

[slick'81]

Yeah, just it sucks not to be the preferred team. I mean DW was shocked at being moved. He thought he was gonna play his whole career in SA, thinking he’s not wanted. While DJ’s all giddy, talking 2-3 weeks planning with Trae, excited. “Spurs for life” Fck that :flipoff

it took the sours a while after kawhi to realize they sucked. Pray we get #1

[RC_Drunkford]

Yeah, just it sucks not to be the preferred team. I mean DW was shocked at being moved. He thought he was gonna play his whole career in SA, thinking he’s not wanted. While DJ’s all giddy, talking 2-3 weeks planning with Trae, excited. “Spurs for life” Fck that :flipoff

you really must be a Star Wars fan. Wright said he talked to DJ and his agent throughout the whole process, so obviously he was talking to Trae after Wright told him he had a trade offer. Out of those options ATL was clearly DJ's preferred destination. DJ even said he hopes to play his entire career here. I guess you just can't convince paranoid Spurs fans to make up their own stories and run with it. "He asked for a trade" "he kicked Pop in the nuts in the locker room" the level of idiocy on this topic is ridiculous

[Ariel]

https://twitter.com/chase_shannon/status/1542944365424906240
Dejounte on whether he requested a trade:
- Reporter: "You said it was mutual"
DM: "Yeah, it was both sides. San Antonio is a great organization, a family forever for me and my family . They're in a rebuilding stage, and they want to see me in a bigger stage, I want to see myself on a bigger stage, which is winning, I'm pretty sure that's what they want to do, I know that's what they want to do, the Spurs organization speaks for itself, but just right now they didn't want to see me just waste years of rebuilding and stuff, they want to see me win and just the best for Dejounte, so I thank them for that a lot. And that's what makes our relationship special, and family forever"

[emanueldavidginobili]

1543411677852483585

[widowmaker]

Spurs are just a player farm for the rest of the league, it’ll be a long time and regime change to get a winning team again. Keldon and Vassell need to start packing their bags so whenever the Suns or Milwaukee come calling they’ll be ready to go. Its like being called up from the a triple A team to the major league.

[Ditty]

Murray was at hills and dales tonight. Wasn’t with George Hill and Bryn Forbes who were there also.

[KingKev]

Murray was at hills and dales tonight. Wasn’t with George Hill and Bryn Forbes who were there also.

Spurs legend Bryn Forbes?

Interesting George Hill would be there. Wouldn’t think he had much of a connection ti SA anymore. Maybe a San Antonio baby momma?

[Brazil]

It is quite simple.... only shot at a title is by drafting a new Duncan so you do deals that maximize those odds. not sure what SFs are whinning about.. Victor is worth it

[Ditty]

Spurs legend Bryn Forbes?

Interesting George Hill would be there. Wouldn’t think he had much of a connection ti SA anymore. Maybe a San Antonio baby momma?

Haha yeah Forbes seems to be a regular there from what I have heard. He was there with his girl I believe. Hill still has a ranch I believe in the area. It was cool to see Murray he wasn’t drinking, he was hanging more at the food truck with a big group surrounding him. I have seen Vassell there a couple of months ago and Spencer Dinwiddle was there Memorial Day weekend apparently. He lives in SA.

[ace3g]

Dejounte and Keldon playing in pickup game together.

https://twitter.com/TbirdTr3y_10/status/1544008899946319872

[ace3g]

Trey Felder @TbirdTr3y_10
(https://twitter.com/TbirdTr3y_10)13s (https://twitter.com/TbirdTr3y_10/status/1544018384005857282)Replying to @ace3g (https://tweetdeck.twitter.com/#)

Lifetime Fitness at the Rim in San Antonio where my wife works part time. We just left a little while ago.

[John B]

Meanwhile DJM with almost a triple-double last night 20, 9, 9 in a win over Magic. He has scored 20 on both wins, Rockets and Magic, relatively easier schedule. I’m curious if this continues.

[John B]

DJM with 19 pts on a losingeffort. Hawks was at one point down by 20 at home.