Latest Spurs Intel Following Deandre Ayton Returning to Suns

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/latest-spurs-intel-deandre-ayton-domino/

:reading

[John B]

I still don't like the idea of Spurs helping the Lakers in case.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Damn.. it feels surreal that the Spurs are on a "Process" mode after years of championship-contending followed by some years being in the fringes of playoff contention. Feel sorry that players like Poeltl, Richardson (apart from Murray & White) are being jettisoned left, right & center. They could have been pieces contributing to a core if the championship contention period endured a bit more. Alas :(

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

ST would go crazy if the Spurs take Westbrook's contract for a single FRP but this would be the most likely scenario if such a deal happens. First of all Brooklyn won't trade Kyrie as a simple salary dump, they'll want assets and Lakers are very short on assets, so it'd be almost impossible to construct a 3-way Spurs-Nets-Lakers deal if all picks go to Spurs. Also, Indiana now have the ability to facilitate the trade while possibly sending away players that Lakers might like such as Turner and Hield, which would compromise the Spurs's negotiating position.

I'm not sure I'd do a Westbrook + one unprotected 1st but this might be the best offer on the table for the Spurs. Generally unprotected firsts are super valuable, it's just that the Gobert trade has detonated NBA trade value perceptions.

It'd be ok to simply hold on to the cap space for now, there'll be plenty of possibilities to use it all the way up to next year's draft. Spurs must have held conversations with other teams , so they'd know what other deals could be in play, especially with some high profile players expected to be traded - Durant and Mitchell, but also some others could be on the way.

With the projected luxury tax distribution projected to be over $25 mil for each non-tax team and 12 teams in the tax, there'll be some of them looking to get under it, or at least reduce their tax.

[JuneJive]

Good stuff.

Spurs are well positioned to extract value from the teams involved in Mitchell/KD/Kyrie trades.

[XDT76]

ST would go crazy if the Spurs take Westbrook's contract for a single FRP but this would be the most likely scenario if such a deal happens. First of all Brooklyn won't trade Kyrie as a simple salary dump, they'll want assets and Lakers are very short on assets, so it'd be almost impossible to construct a 3-way Spurs-Nets-Lakers deal if all picks go to Spurs. Also, Indiana now have the ability to facilitate the trade while possibly sending away players that Lakers might like such as Turner and Hield, which would compromise the Spurs's negotiating position.

I'm not sure I'd do a Westbrook + one unprotected 1st but this might be the best offer on the table for the Spurs. Generally unprotected firsts are super valuable, it's just that the Gobert trade has detonated NBA trade value perceptions.

It'd be ok to simply hold on to the cap space for now, there'll be plenty of possibilities to use it all the way up to next year's draft. Spurs must have held conversations with other teams , so they'd know what other deals could be in play, especially with some high profile players expected to be traded - Durant and Mitchell, but also some others could be on the way.

With the projected luxury tax distribution projected to be over $25 mil for each non-tax team and 12 teams in the tax, there'll be some of them looking to get under it, or at least reduce their tax.

We can also ask them eat McD or Langford

[jeebus]

Yes, good. Continue to blow it the fuck up. I will be pissed if the Spurs win more than 15 games this coming season.

[CGD]

We can also ask them eat McD or Langford

Exactly, basically Nets don’t want to eat the difference between the Irving and Brick contracts, which I think is about 10M. Spurs can send out contracts so that they’re not eating even most of the Brick deal.

[KingKev]

Great they are firmly committed to a strategy.

[spurraider21]

I still don't like the idea of Spurs helping the Lakers in case.
Why. What’s more important to you, the spurs getting better or the lakers getting worse? Pick one

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't like helping the Lakers, but then again adding Irving won't make them win a championship with all the garbage they got on the roster. Spurs should be able to at least get 2 first round picks by taking on Westbrook and moving Poeltl/Richardson. Maybe even more. 2 more unprotected firsts would be a nice haul

[exstatic]

We can also ask them eat McD or Langford

They’ll have to eat someone. We have $36M in cap room, and Russ makes $47M. It would be nice to offload McD, but either he or JRich would make the $$$ work.

[John B]

Why. What’s more important to you, the spurs getting better or the lakers getting worse? Pick one

Bailing out the Lakers of their stupidity. And the Lakers don't have enough assets to unload Westbrook to us. One FRP for 47mil?

[Ice009]

Bailing out the Lakers of their stupidity. And the Lakers don't have enough assets to unload Westbrook to us. One FRP for 47mil?

Yeah, I'm not a fan of that move. Only getting one FRP (even if it is unprotected) doesn't sit well for me.

[objective]

Bailing out the Lakers of their stupidity. And the Lakers don't have enough assets to unload Westbrook to us. One FRP for 47mil?

Yeah, only 1 first for that much money is ridiculous. It might be better than nothing, but it's a bad look for the Spurs being unable to leverage their space like other teams have.

[Chinook]

Am I reading this correctly? It's suggesting the Spurs would be willing to trade away Poeltl and Richardson in addition to absorbing Westbrook in exchange for a single unprotected pick. For me, that's not okay. The only way it's a little acceptable if it's Richardson, McDermott, Poeltl and Langford for Westbrook and the pick AFTER the Spurs are able to use their cap space to acquire even more picks. The idea of trading away valuable players and cap space for such a minor return just wouldn't sit right with me.

[exstatic]

One UNPROTECTED FRP is pretty decent for renting cap room, even a lot of it. If we can send back the last two years of McD, that would be alright. We could then monetize both Poeltl and JRich for future assets.

[XDT76]

Am I reading this correctly? It's suggesting the Spurs would be willing to trade away Poeltl and Richardson in addition to absorbing Westbrook in exchange for a single unprotected pick. For me, that's not okay. The only way it's a little acceptable if it's Richardson, McDermott, Poeltl and Langford for Westbrook and the pick AFTER the Spurs are able to use their cap space to acquire even more picks. The idea of trading away valuable players and cap space for such a minor return just wouldn't sit right with me.

If the alternative is to waste the cap space away, what would you prefer? Lakers need to eat a contract from us so sending away McD and get an unprotected FRP and maybe one or 2 SRP.

[Chinook]

If the alternative is to waste the cap space away, what would you prefer? Lakers need to eat a contract from us so sending away McD and get an unprotected FRP and maybe one or 2 SRP.

I don't care about McDermott. I do care about adding Poeltl and to a lesser extent Richardson into the deal and only coming away with one pick (no, the seconds don't count).

[XDT76]

I don't care about McDermott. I do care about adding Poeltl and to a lesser extent Richardson into the deal and only coming away with one pick (no, the seconds don't count).

Nah, I will not send Poeltl or J. Rich away on this deal, they probably can get protected FRP on their own. Sending McD away helps to open up cap space next season, in case we need it.

[Chinook]

Nah, I will not send Poeltl or J. Rich away on this deal, they probably can get protected FRP on their own. Sending McD away helps to open up cap space next season, in case we need it.

Okay, but my whole post is about Poeltl being mentioned as a throw-in for a Westbrook trade. If you don't think that's okay either, then we're not in disagreement. It doesn't bother me to help the Lakers. Doesn't concern me at all. But panicking on a Poeltl trade would.

[exstatic]

Am I reading this correctly? It's suggesting the Spurs would be willing to trade away Poeltl and Richardson in addition to absorbing Westbrook in exchange for a single unprotected pick. For me, that's not okay. The only way it's a little acceptable if it's Richardson, McDermott, Poeltl and Langford for Westbrook and the pick AFTER the Spurs are able to use their cap space to acquire even more picks. The idea of trading away valuable players and cap space for such a minor return just wouldn't sit right with me.
I agree. The only involvement I would be happy with is Russ + unprotected FRP for either McD (preferred) or JRich. The Nets would need to receive something, and they have an exception large enough to fit Langford if we want to save a few bucks.

[TDomination]

Okay, but my whole post is about Poeltl being mentioned as a throw-in for a Westbrook trade. If you don't think that's okay either, then we're not in disagreement. It doesn't bother me to help the Lakers. Doesn't concern me at all. But panicking on a Poeltl trade would.

agreed

poeltl is too valuable to merely be “filler” for a trade.

[kjhip1]

Would the Spurs buy out Westbrook at that point, or would he stay for the season?

[The Truth #6]

This season is going to be a disaster no matter who’s on the team. I would hope they can get more than one first round pick for Westbrook, but I am sort of warming up to the idea of Westbrook being the tank commander, basically, I’m just embracing the dysfunctional aspect of the moment. This is going to be a super boring season and Westbrook just somehow might keep it more interesting? I don’t know, still thinking about this.

[exstatic]

Would the Spurs buy out Westbrook at that point, or would he stay for the season?

I’m pretty sure neither Russ nor the Spurs want a year of him on our rebuilding roster.

[The Truth #6]

Pop rehabilitating Westbrook is a fascinating dark comedy.

[SpursFan86]

Agree with what a few others have said here…only getting one first for Poetl/JRich/taking on Westbrook’s contract would be a disappointment in my eyes. Ideally those assets should yield us at least 2 firsts.

That being said I’m just glad it seems like we have a firm direction. Getting a deal or two like the ones talked about here would firmly put to rest any ideas that the FO isn’t committed to tanking.

[JeffDuncan]

The Spurs need to give the youngsters playing time, and I can’t see them getting into a John Wall type situation, so that points toward a buyout, I would guess.

[timvp]

Am I reading this correctly? It's suggesting the Spurs would be willing to trade away Poeltl and Richardson in addition to absorbing Westbrook in exchange for a single unprotected pick. For me, that's not okay. The only way it's a little acceptable if it's Richardson, McDermott, Poeltl and Langford for Westbrook and the pick AFTER the Spurs are able to use their cap space to acquire even more picks. The idea of trading away valuable players and cap space for such a minor return just wouldn't sit right with me.

The way it was explained to me is that the Spurs could already get lottery protected picks for Poeltl if they wanted to. However, the Spurs don't value lottery protected picks nearly as much as unprotected picks. So if adding salary absorption to Poeltl nets the Spurs draft capital that includes at least one unprotected pick, that'd be preferable.

[exstatic]

This season is going to be a disaster no matter who’s on the team. I would hope they can get more than one first round pick for Westbrook, but I am sort of warming up to the idea of Westbrook being the tank commander, basically, I’m just embracing the dysfunctional aspect of the moment. This is going to be a super boring season and Westbrook just somehow might keep it more interesting? I don’t know, still thinking about this.

Russ won’t want to be on a rebuilding team’s roster. We won’t want his volatile personality in the locker room, either. He’ll be bought out for a small amount and waived. When he signs, his new salary is also offset to us, so probably $6M ish for taxpayer MLE, or $11M ish for full MLE. He is untradeable at his current salary, other than as a salary dump. His salary counts on our cap whether we waive him or not,so there won’t be a scramble to hit minimum payroll. Waiving him also adds a roster slot to evaluate a young player.

[Teamduncan21]

I think the two points are separated.

IE spurs are willing to take Westbrook for a pick
Spurs is also ok to trade poeltl and Richardson for more picks even if as part of that package.
(Means they can have more than one pick)

For example
As spurs is also willing to facilitate Knicks Mitchell thing. For Which is as of now not related to Westbrook
So it may or or may not be related. As long as more picks

[cjw]

Yeah, only 1 first for that much money is ridiculous. It might be better than nothing, but it's a bad look for the Spurs being unable to leverage their space like other teams have.

It’s $47 million, but there is zero money after this season. The opportunity cost to taking on Westbrook, though, is you cannot facilitate other deals as the season goes on.

I’d rather pair Poeltl + smaller amount of space for an unprotected pick (heck, I want an unprotected for Poeltl without taking in salary ballast), and same with Richardson.

I think most likely scenario is Lakers can’t find a deal that works with Westbrook.

[Seventyniner]

The way it was explained to me is that the Spurs could already get lottery protected picks for Poeltl if they wanted to. However, the Spurs don't value lottery protected picks nearly as much as unprotected picks. So if adding salary absorption to Poeltl nets the Spurs draft capital that includes at least one unprotected pick, that'd be preferable.

Any word if the Spurs are insisting on at least one unprotected swap too? It really sucks to think the Spurs would burn so much of their cap space and positive-value players on a single pick that could end up being outside the lottery anyway.

And the Spurs have such a good track record at turning late firsts into rotation players (or better), I would think they would prioritize, say, two or three lottery protected firsts over a single unprotected pick. Quality over quantity of picks makes sense in a league like the NBA, but the Spurs can get the best of both worlds if they keep hitting on late firsts. Wesley already looks like a steal, for example.

[spurraider21]

Bailing out the Lakers of their stupidity. And the Lakers don't have enough assets to unload Westbrook to us. One FRP for 47mil?
Would you rather have 30 million in cap space this year doing nothing or would you rather have an unprotected future first round pick

[TD 21]

Would the Spurs buy out Westbrook at that point, or would he stay for the season?

Wondering the same. You'd think he'd be bought out, but then what would be the plan at PG? I find it hard to believe they go with Jones and if you want to count them, Primo and Wesley.

[BatManu20]

2 unprotected FRP’s for Poeltl and taking on Westbrick would be great tbh. As much as I’d hate helping the lakers, at this point you have to do what’s best for the franchise and that would definitely be it. Hope the Lakers get desperate and it happens tbh.

[Mnky]

I still don't like the idea of Spurs helping the Lakers in case.

They wouldn't be helping them necessarily. The trade will go through some how, the spurs just end up stealing a first from thr lakers without giving anything up. That's a pretty big win over a conference rival who you won't be competing with anytime soon.

[BatManu20]

Assuming it’s their 2027 FRP, that’s a long ways away from now. Lebron will have retired and AD will be in a wheelchair somewhere. The lakers could be hot ass and in a rebuild by then. Easy trade imo.

[Mr. Body]

I'm more strongly feeling that Durant and Irving remain in Brooklyn. Mitchell is another story. NYK need a splash and they'll overpay.

Agnostic about losing Richardson and Poeltl. I suppose it's a favor to move them. To me, Keldon and Vassell are probably checking out already anyway.

It seems like teams are cementing their summer, other than Utah/NYK/etc., so the Spurs' cap space might not get important until the trade deadline. My desires would be to keep Richardson and Poeltl until then, too. I'd rather have team structure to get the young guys going. I don't see it impacting the trade market for those two to wait. I doubt you're getting anything unprotected for Poeltl.

[Mr. Body]

Also, there's something shifting in the NBA in terms of trades and assets. The Dejounte and Gobert trades are setting a high market for under-contract players. This is constantly shifting, may change with the new CBA, etc.

But one impact is that it's starting to freeze some teams out of moving any future picks because they're emptying themselves out. More teams are turning into the Lakers, essentially.

The other impact is that fewer teams are holding more picks. Utah just turned into OKC. The Spurs seem to be aiming for this category. There's a quiet arms race for these huge war chests. I mention because at some point it becomes something else besides just the individual picks. There might be a way that fewer teams are able to set the market for selling/trading some of these picks, essentially.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Poeltl is worth more than fill-in on a trade that perhaps nets a FRP.

Not that I want him to waste the next three years on a terrible Spurs team, but I'd rather keep him than give him away for practically nothing.

The only issue with keeping Poeltl is that he probably adds several wins to the season's total next year.

[DAF86]

Am I reading this correctly? It's suggesting the Spurs would be willing to trade away Poeltl and Richardson in addition to absorbing Westbrook in exchange for a single unprotected pick. For me, that's not okay. The only way it's a little acceptable if it's Richardson, McDermott, Poeltl and Langford for Westbrook and the pick AFTER the Spurs are able to use their cap space to acquire even more picks. The idea of trading away valuable players and cap space for such a minor return just wouldn't sit right with me.

No. From what I understood: taking Westbrook equals an Unprotected FRP. Sending out Poeltl and/or Richardson equals an additional FRP each.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Let McBuckets be the filler to make the numbers work.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

And I'm not convinced Westbrick is as done as he looked on the Lakers. He was the scapegoat on a terrible team. But yes, he has the worst contract possible for an aging point guard. Saving the Lakers does kind of grind the gears though. We know Kyrie and Lebron can play together, so that kind of sucks.

[DAF86]

I just don't see how a Spurs/Nets/Lakers trade would work, tbh. Don't the Lakers have some kind of restriction when it comes to trading away first round picks? How are they going to be able to collect enough picks to satisfy both the Nets and Spurs? The Spurs, supossedly, will be cool with one unprotected first, but what about the Nets, who are giving up an all-star level player? After the Murray and Gobbert trade, I don't see Brooklyn accepting anything less than 3 or 4 unprotected firsts. Can the Lakers trade away 4/5 unprotected FRPs?

[Mugen]

And I'm not convinced Westbrick is as done as he looked on the Lakers. He was the scapegoat on a terrible team. But yes, he has the worst contract possible for an aging point guard. Saving the Lakers does kind of grind the gears though. We know Kyrie and Lebron can play together, so that kind of sucks.

Westbrook is an expiring, not that bad IMO. But it's a huge number for this upcoming season and I wouldn't settle for just one unprotected 1st rounder for him. Nets/Spurs have the Lakers over a barrel tbh, they should ask for the farm.

[Mr. Body]

I just don't see how a Spurs/Nets/Lakers trade would work, tbh. Don't the Lakers have some kind of restriction when it comes to trading away first round picks? How are they going to be able to collect enough picks to satisfy both the Nets and Spurs? The Spurs, supossedly, will be cool with one unprotected first, but what about the Nets, who are giving up an all-star level player? After the Murray and Gobbert trade, I don't see Brooklyn accepting anything less than 3 or 4 unprotected firsts. Can the Lakers trade away 4/5 unprotected FRPs?

The Spurs getting involved in a Lakers/Nets trade has never made sense, but the usual national wags tried to suggest it to keep the dialogue going. The Lakers only have two picks, I believe the 27 and 29, to trade, and Brooklyn would need something for Irving. They would have to add a player or two to even out the contracts, meaning giving another good player to LA. Or the Spurs get involved, splitting the two picks between Brooklyn/San Antonio. Not enough for either side.

Kyrie looks to stay in Brooklyn anyway.

[baseline bum]

Not giving up Poetl in that trade. Taking Westbrook alone is worth a Lakers unprotected first bare minimum.

[BackHome]

The Nets are screwed like the Spurs were when Kawhi demanded trade to Cali - They either play hard ball and he sits out the whole year or they trade him but they not getting 3 or 4 first picks.

[DAF86]

Westbrook is an expiring, not that bad IMO. But it's a huge number for this upcoming season and I wouldn't settle for just one unprotected 1st rounder for him. Nets/Spurs have the Lakers over a barrel tbh, they should ask for the farm.

Lakers don't have a farm, that's the problem.

[Mr. Body]

The Nets are screwed like the Spurs were when Kawhi demanded trade to Cali - They either play hard ball and he sits out the whole year or they trade him but they not getting 3 or 4 first picks.

Are you talking Irving or Durant? Irving has already said he never requested a trade. Whatever, he's a weirdo. Either he'll play with them or sit, but he's not a franchise changer like Kawhi.

If Durant, he has multiple years left and will come back to play.

[dbestpro]

The Spurs should still try to sign a couple of old vets who can be coaches on the floor.

[offset formation]

I still don't like the idea of Spurs helping the Lakers in case.

Well...you absolutely don't do it for only 1 FRP, protected or not. By the time 2027 or 2029 rolls around and the pick confers, Lakers will likely have re-stocked the cupboard with the top free agents at that time so the pick will more than likely come in, in the mid to high 20s. You can't ever count on the Lakers to suck because they have the deeper pockets to absorb the tax and the ability to be at the top of the list for most FAs.

[offset formation]

Would the Spurs buy out Westbrook at that point, or would he stay for the season?

I can't see them paying 30M for a buyout for 1 FRP. At least not the Spurs I know. Conversely, I can't see them bringing in a aging vet to play hero ball either when they're trying to develop their youngsters. Though Westbrook already has a couple of young disciples on the roster in Primo (TO machine) and Wesley (chucker), so perhaps it's not such a bad move after all...

It just doesn't make sense either way, unless you get 2 unprotected FRPs to then buy him out. Even then, I'm not sure I do that deal.

[Seventyniner]

Well...you absolutely don't do it for only 1 FRP, protected or not. By the time 2027 or 2029 rolls around and the pick confers, Lakers will likely have re-stocked the cupboard with the top free agents at that time so the pick will more than likely come in, in the mid to high 20s. You can't ever count on the Lakers to suck because they have the deeper pockets to absorb the tax and the ability to be at the top of the list for most FAs.

The Lakers have missed the playoffs 7 of the last 9 seasons, including 2 of LeBron's 4 seasons there. They certainly could be a very good team by 2027 through 2029 but there's no guarantee.

I would want at least one unprotected swap from the Lakers if there's only one unprotected pick incoming.

[MultiTroll]

I can't see them paying 30M for a buyout for 1 FRP. At least not the Spurs I know. Conversely, I can't see them bringing in a aging vet to play hero ball either when they're trying to develop their youngsters. Though Westbrook already has a couple of young disciples on the roster in Primo (TO machine) and Wesley (chucker), so perhaps it's not such a bad move after all...

It just doesn't make sense either way, unless you get 2 unprotected FRPs to then buy him out. Even then, I'm not sure I do that deal.
Agree 100 why have that ballhog influencing young Spurs with super bad habits and zero BBIQ play.

Am i taking crazy pills or what. Is the board really floating even the remote reality of Westbrook for one or even two picks?
One is absurd and should be dismissed as super bad trolling and/or Magic Johnson repping the Lakers.
Two picks still sucks ass unless it includes McForbesbot and another undesirable contract going back.

Paying 47 million to buy a couple completely unknown where in the 1st round they would fall picks?
Don't be Brian Wrong.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm not sure why folks are outraged if $40 mil or so buys you an unprotected first. It's incredibly rare that similar deals happen at all and usually the going rate for a lottery protected 1st is a salary commitment of about $20 mil. Unprotected firsts are gold, even from the Lakers - they've been in the lottery a lot lately. It's a risk but this would be one of the better risks a rebuilding team could make.

[Chinook]

I'm not sure why folks are outraged if $40 mil or so buys you an unprotected first. It's incredibly rare that similar deals happen at all and usually the going rate for a lottery protected 1st is a salary commitment of about $20 mil. Unprotected firsts are gold, even from the Lakers - they've been in the lottery a lot lately. It's a risk but this would be one of the better risks a rebuilding team could make.

I don't mind the team paying Westbrook's salary for the pick. But they better also get a second pick for Poeltl. I like unprotected picks, but I'm cool with guaranteed picks and would be fine getting a couple of those instead of paying so much for a single unprotected pick. The Spurs don't need to fall too much in love with the lottery.

[KingKev]

How long before these tidbits make it to Bleacher?

[rascal]

Agree with what a few others have said here…only getting one first for Poetl/JRich/taking on Westbrook’s contract would be a disappointment in my eyes. Ideally those assets should yield us at least 2 firsts.

That being said I’m just glad it seems like we have a firm direction. Getting a deal or two like the ones talked about here would firmly put to rest any ideas that the FO isn’t committed to tanking.

Not committed to tanking should have been put to rest when Murray was traded for future draft picks.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don't mind the team paying Westbrook's salary for the pick. But they better also get a second pick for Poeltl. I like unprotected picks, but I'm cool with guaranteed picks and would be fine getting a couple of those instead of paying so much for a single unprotected pick. The Spurs don't need to fall too much in love with the lottery.

Fully agree. The Spurs are selling 3 assets - $30+ mil of cap space, Poeltl and Richardson. Now, at the end of the day, regardless of what deals they make, if they could get an unprotected 1st and another say lottery protected pick for the three they'd have done damn well.

Instead, reading ST, one would expect them to get two or three unprotected picks and more, which expectations are bound to be shattered by reality. Again, I think the Gobert trade has shook everyone's perception of value. Teams don't get unprotected firsts for renting cap space. It just doesn't happen. If the Spurs could get one, it'd be a huge win.

[TDomination]

is it really the best idea to get rid of ALL of our vets?

won't we need someone after the smoke clears to be with these young guys as they get better?

having a team full of 19-23 years old is going to lead to bad habit basketball imo. no matter how good they are.

you always need at least 1 or 2 vets to help guide these guys.

i'm curious if their plan is to get the talent first and then try to sign up some vets once we start seeing some real potential with this young group?

[Ariel]

This is pretty much exactly what I expected:
1) Hoping the Suns not to match so that we'd be the only team with enough cap space to facilitate a trade and thus increasing its value.
2) Hoping Myles isn't on the move so that Poelt's price goes up as the last viable center standing.
3) Trying to move Poeltl & Richardson before the season (*cough* tank *cough*)
The only thing that strikes me as odd, is that the Spurs would only require a single draft pick to take back Westbrook's contract, which seems really cheap, unless it's part of a larger deal like this I thought of:

Well... I think there could be a framework for us to get in that trade, but we'd have to send out quite a few players...
Something like:
SA: In: Westbrook, picks - Out: McDermott, Poeltl, Richardson, KBD
LA - In: Irving, McDermott - Out: Westbrook, picks
BKN: - In: Poeltl, Richardson, KDB, picks - Out: Irving
Now before you say Brooklyn doesn't need Poeltl, I'm simply laying a general framework where we could be involved... Probably it'd require some team that could use Poeltl giving something up that the Nets need (Chicago? Toronto? Utah?). But the overall salary structure works.
I don't think the Nets would require all that much in terms of picks compensation for 1 year worth of Kyrie, he's a distraction and his market is reduced to one team. So probably one unprotected from LA plus something else.. maybe an unprotected 1st from LA plus whatever a 4th team that wants Poeltl can give them.
Basically for us, we take on about 10M worth of salary (which leaves plenty of room to facilitate other trades) and we get out of McDermott's remaining contract. Richardson is unlikely to command a 1st in return so he's the price for moving McDermott (maybe a couple second rounders on top) and trading Poeltl embraces the rebuild. As compensation we get maybe Philly's 2023 1st (owned by Brooklyn) and an unprotected pic from LA, plus ridding ourselves of McDermott now.

Now I'm not saying this is an easy or likely scenario, but it's a working scenario that, give or take a few picks could be a reasonable middle ground for all parties.

[The Truth #6]

Random thoughts.

1. Being part of a large trade that helps facilitate Irving going to the Lakers, to me, doesn’t necessarily mean a win for the Lakers. I may be in the minority here, but I see Irving as a disaster almost as bad as Westbrook; he’s been hated at his last two teams for his dysfunction; but yeah, in the stable Los Angeles environment I’m sure things will work out fine!

2. Maybe don’t trade Josh Richardson? He seems to be great for morale, and next season is going to have pretty horrible morale if I had to take a guess.

3. Pop trying to rehabilitate Westbrook is too weird, too bizarre not to be at least a little bit interested in. If nothing else, the Spurs will get some amount of national media attention just for that train wreck. If anyone could tame Westbrook, it would be Pop. For the right amount of draft a capital in return, I’m intrigued.

[offset formation]

Fully agree. The Spurs are selling 3 assets - $30+ mil of cap space, Poeltl and Richardson. Now, at the end of the day, regardless of what deals they make, if they could get an unprotected 1st and another say lottery protected pick for the three they'd have done damn well.

Instead, reading ST, one would expect them to get two or three unprotected picks and more, which expectations are bound to be shattered by reality. Again, I think the Gobert trade has shook everyone's perception of value. Teams don't get unprotected firsts for renting cap space. It just doesn't happen. If the Spurs could get one, it'd be a huge win.

True. But this isn't your average cap space rental. Everyone and their mother knows the Lakers are desperate to move Westbrook at Lebron's insistence to get them a player in Kyrie that gives him his last best chance to ring. And there are only two teams that can even do it. Plus they're the flucking Lakers. Therefore, it's two FRPs, fully unprotected, or hit the shit brick road.

[Ariel]

3. Pop trying to rehabilitate Westbrook is too weird, too bizarre not to be at least a little bit interested in. If nothing else, the Spurs will get some amount of national media attention just for that train wreck. If anyone could tame Westbrook, it would be Pop. For the right amount of draft a capital in return, I’m intrigued.
There's incentive in taking Westbrook's contract, not in rehabilitating him, which is tougher than rehabilitating a 50 year user of heroin. Giving playing time and resources to Westbrook as opposed to focusing on Wesley and Tre would come at a huge cost, for only a marginal gain (in rep for Pop, not for the Spurs).

[offset formation]

Plus it's their incompetent front office that made the move to bring in Westbrook and his two years of his annual 47M in salary. Tough shit Lakers. Pay up or go through another disastrous season. Problem for them, which I must say gives me Schadenfreude, is that if they do the deal with us, they have no assets to complete the Kyrie trade with Brooklyn.

Oh it'd be fucking hilarious if it wasn't so fucking hilarious.

[The Truth #6]

There's incentive in taking Westbrook's contract, not in rehabilitating him, which is tougher than rehabilitating a 50 year user of heroin. Giving playing time and resources to Westbrook as opposed to focusing on Wesley and Tre would come at a huge cost, for only a marginal gain (in rep for Pop, not for the Spurs).

I’m not totally serious about Pop and Westbrook. Basically, I’m expecting a horrible season next year and if Westbrook brought in enough draft capital, then it would be an amusing distraction. To think about it seriously, yeah, you have to balance how destructive his presence would be versus how much those future picks might help us long-term.

But if fans are worried about the owners moving the team, does Westbrook sell any more tickets or create enough attention for the Spurs that in any way keeps the owners and (casual) fanbase still interested in the team? Very likely not. But maybe? And this is a pivotal moment that probably could impact the team in several different ways moving forward.

[Mr. Body]

Westbrook would fill the seats more than what the team has now.

[SpursFan86]

Not committed to tanking should have been put to rest when Murray was traded for future draft picks.

I don’t disagree, but that didn’t stop several people on here from arguing otherwise :lol

[KingKev]

is it really the best idea to get rid of ALL of our vets?

won't we need someone after the smoke clears to be with these young guys as they get better?

having a team full of 19-23 years old is going to lead to bad habit basketball imo. no matter how good they are.

you always need at least 1 or 2 vets to help guide these guys.

i'm curious if their plan is to get the talent first and then try to sign up some vets once we start seeing some real potential with this young group?

McDermott and JRich and Jak aren’t exactly seasoned.

[Spurs Homer]

1) FTL

2) Why (if true) would the Spurs be grossly underrating Purtle? Unless the spurs front ofc includes idiot spurstalk posters - why would purtles value be so low?

I say play purtle until the trade deadline and let teams salivate over adding purtle to their playoff chances -

THEN swoop in for some unprotected FRP's

[Mr. Body]

McDermott and JRich and Jak aren’t exactly seasoned.

Of course they are. The point is they know how to be professionals in the league. How to take care of their bodies, eat, sleep, prepare, be responsible and handle themselves. Even Poeltl, but definition the other two guys who have been around for a while. A team of young players need these types.

[Ariel]

THEN swoop in for some unprotected FRP's
We just traded Dejounte (an actual all star with 2 years left at a bargain price) for 2 unprotected FRP (plus an unprotected swap and a pick that may never convey)... and you expect a similar package ("some unprotected FRP's") for a 4 month rental (trade deadline to end of season) of a good to average center? That's not going to happen.

[mo7888]

LA- Kyrie, McDermott
Brooklyn- Poeltl, Richardson, and Langford
Spurs- WB, 2026 & 2028 Unprotected FRP's

That could work...it eats some of LA's space next summer and Brooklyn gets real players instead of picks and I think they'd prefer that.

[Ariel]

LA- Kyrie, McDermott
Brooklyn- Poeltl, Richardson, and Langford
Spurs- WB, 2026 & 2028 Unprotected FRP's

That could work...it eats some of LA's space next summer and Brooklyn gets real players instead of picks and I think they'd prefer that.
The Nets aren't going to take that while we get 2 unprotected FRPs for an expiring... maybe one unprotected pick + unprotected Lakers swap to Brooklyn, and one unprotected Lakers pick + a protected pick from the Nets (they have Philly's 2023 pick) to us... that would sound better.

[Spurs Homer]

We just traded Dejounte (an actual all star with 2 years left at a bargain price) for 2 unprotected FRP (plus an unprotected swap and a pick that may never convey)... and you expect a similar package ("some unprotected FRP's") for a 4 month rental (trade deadline to end of season) of a good to average center? That's not going to happen.


maybe

but to lose purtle and help the lakers for "maybe" 1 frp is just horrible - as some were saying

[baseline bum]

The Nets aren't going to take that while we get 2 unprotected FRPs for an expiring... maybe one unprotected pick + unprotected Lakers swap to Brooklyn, and one unprotected Lakers pick + a protected pick from the Nets (they have Philly's 2023 pick) to us... that would sound better.

The Nets aren't the one eating Westbrook's salary. No way in hell I'm trading them Poetl for a lottery protected pick.

[baseline bum]

We just traded Dejounte (an actual all star with 2 years left at a bargain price) for 2 unprotected FRP (plus an unprotected swap and a pick that may never convey)... and you expect a similar package ("some unprotected FRP's") for a 4 month rental (trade deadline to end of season) of a good to average center? That's not going to happen.

It's not a four month rental. Brooklyn would get Bird Rights to be in the driver's seat to re-sign Poetl.

[Ariel]

The Nets aren't the one eating Westbrook's salary. No way in hell I'm trading them Poetl for a lottery protected pick.
In that trade you're not eating Westbrook's contract, you're only taking in about 10M of it: Westbrook MINUS McDermott MINUS Poeltl MINUS Richardson
PLUS you're only taking 1 year worth of Westbrook while ridding yourself or 2 years worth of McDermott
PLUS you are only guaranteed to keep Poeltl for one season
PLUS you can still use about 20M worth of cap space to leverage other assets.
In my original trade proposal I had Poeltl going to a fourth team, which would provide an extra pick... but that's a rough framework that I think could be more realistic, not necessarily the definitive deal.

[Ariel]

It's not a four month rental. Brooklyn would get Bird Rights to be in the driver's seat to re-sign Poetl.
Which could mean nothing if a team with enough cap space is interested in him... say Indiana, if they trade Myles Turner. Bird rights are not the same as a guaranteed long term contract.

[cjw]

The Mitchell contract is big, and requires a lot of Knicks contracts going out the door. Could actually see the Jazz working Westbrook into that deal and get back even more picks (with Lakers turning Westbrook’s crappy one year deal into a guys like Fournier, Rose, Bogdanovic, etc.)

On Poeltl, there’s value holding him until the deadline when teams may make all in moves. Even if not traded, he has S&T value as he will command more than the MLE and cap space won’t be everywhere.

[Chinook]

I don't share the Spurs' level of desire for completely unprotected picks. It's one thing to see Charlotte's 2023 pick as unideal. It's another to think getting a top-four protected first or a swapped pick like what Utah got for O'Neal as anathema. I get grabbing a couple in the future. I also get trying to stack some in 2023. But they shouldn't be trying to play the lotto in 2028 or whatever when they could get multiple bites in earlier years instead.

[baseline bum]

In that trade you're not eating Westbrook's contract, you're only taking in about 10M of it: Westbrook MINUS McDermott MINUS Poeltl MINUS Richardson
PLUS you're only taking 1 year worth of Westbrook while ridding yourself or 2 years worth of McDermott
PLUS you are only guaranteed to keep Poeltl for one season
PLUS you can still use about 20M worth of cap space to leverage other assets.
In my original trade proposal I had Poeltl going to a fourth team, which would provide an extra pick... but that's a rough framework that I think could be more realistic, not necessarily the definitive deal.

Yes you are eating it because you're trading useful players for it.

[DPG21920]

I would be thrilled if SA moved McDermott & used their space for 1 pick. If its Jakob, SA should be getting 2 picks. But getting off of Dougs deal a year early is a huge win.

[DPG21920]

I would just go ahead and trade Jakob for his own pick to lock in that value IMO. Then have Richardson, Doug to fill salaries for taking on a deal like WB.

But if they have to use Jakob in a WB deal, they should absolutely get an unprotected pick, then use Richardson to hopefully net the other pick in a sep deal. But I would love to get off of Dougs deal and pay all the functional money this year and have all expirings

[Kevin]

I still don't get why Kyrie cant just get go to the Heat. Spurs would be perfectly positioned to take the Kyle Lowery deal in exchange for an unprotected first.

[baseline bum]

Which could mean nothing if a team with enough cap space is interested in him... say Indiana, if they trade Myles Turner. Bird rights are not the same as a guaranteed long term contract.

Calling Poetl a four month rental is ridiculous, it's not like he's Leonard saying he's going to LA next summer no matter who he gets traded to. Brooklyn's likely not going to trade Durant but they would love to get out of Irving and getting a top defensive center is an incredible return for the guy nobody but the Lakers wants. They'd have a huge inside track to re-signing Poetl. LOL at the idea of Poetl wanting to leave a contender for Indiana.

[Ariel]

Yes you are eating it because you're trading useful players for it.
Whose value you're considering aside. You're not looking at it correctly. In that trade:
You lose 10M of cap space in 2022, but you gain 14 M of capspace in 2024
You lose Poeltl and Richardson, but you gain 2 picks (1 unprotected) for players that you might lose anyway and might subtract from your lottery odds next year.
Again... you're not looking at the whole picture. You might not like that deal, but it's definitely not unfair for the Spurs, and likely they'll end up getting WORSE than that.

[Ariel]

Calling Poetl a four month rental is ridiculous, it's not like he's Leonard saying he's going to LA next summer no matter who he gets traded to. Brooklyn's likely not going to trade Durant but they would love to get out of Irving and getting a top defensive center is an incredible return for the guy nobody but the Lakers wants. They'd have a huge inside track to re-signing Poetl. LOL at the idea of Poetl wanting to leave a contender for Indiana.
It's the only thing they're guaranteed to get. Could they re-sign him? Sure. But the fact is, the contractual situation doesn't guarantee that, and pretending that isn't a factor is what's downright ridiculous.

[KingKev]

Of course they are. The point is they know how to be professionals in the league. How to take care of their bodies, eat, sleep, prepare, be responsible and handle themselves. Even Poeltl, but definition the other two guys who have been around for a while. A team of young players need these types.

Lol i’m not paying McDerMutt 14m a year to mentor guys on how to be an NBA journey man who has barely won a playoff series.

McD is probably more focused on one last contract versus helping the youth. Jak probably still needs some
mentoring himself.

End of the bench vets who may have actually had success in the league can be had for 2-5mm a year.

Hell bring some greats on the coaching staff. A million ways these kids can be mentored.

[DPG21920]

Fully agree. The Spurs are selling 3 assets - $30+ mil of cap space, Poeltl and Richardson. Now, at the end of the day, regardless of what deals they make, if they could get an unprotected 1st and another say lottery protected pick for the three they'd have done damn well.

Instead, reading ST, one would expect them to get two or three unprotected picks and more, which expectations are bound to be shattered by reality. Again, I think the Gobert trade has shook everyone's perception of value. Teams don't get unprotected firsts for renting cap space. It just doesn't happen. If the Spurs could get one, it'd be a huge win.

Agree - Spurs walking away with 2 picks from Jakob + Space should be the min, but if one of them is unprotected its a huge win. I dont care if they have to use Richardson/Doug to accomplish that either.

[baseline bum]

I would be thrilled if SA moved McDermott & used their space for 1 pick. If its Jakob, SA should be getting 2 picks. But getting off of Dougs deal a year early is a huge win.

McDermott's deal doesn't matter much, it's only $13.75 million. Not the kind of money I'd give up assets to get out of.

[baseline bum]

Whose value you're considering aside. You're not looking at it correctly. In that trade:
You lose 10M of cap space in 2022, but you gain 14 M of capspace in 2024
You lose Poeltl and Richardson, but you gain 2 picks (1 unprotected) for players that you might lose anyway and might subtract from your lottery odds next year.
Again... you're not looking at the whole picture. You might not like that deal, but it's definitely not unfair for the Spurs, and likely they'll end up getting WORSE than that.

You're trying to take a worst case scenario for the Spurs. Like Poetl's going to tell Sean Marks to fuck off and he's leaving next summer.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You're trying to take a worst case scenario for the Spurs. Like Poetl's going to tell Sean Marks to fuck off and he's leaving next summer.

Poeltl will go to whoever gives him the most money. He hasn't had his big payday yet. There will be a lot of teams with cap space and a pretty mediocre free agent class. Together with the cap increase there'll be some eye-popping deals.

[Mr. Body]

Lol i’m not paying McDerMutt 14m a year to mentor guys on how to be an NBA journey man who has barely won a playoff series.

McD is probably more focused on one last contract versus helping the youth. Jak probably still needs some
mentoring himself.

End of the bench vets who may have actually had success in the league can be had for 2-5mm a year.

Hell bring some greats on the coaching staff. A million ways these kids can be mentored.

Bruh, we're talking about 'seasoned' players. I said that McDermott is one, easily. We're not talking about salaries or specific players. Jus tbecause you don't know what the fuck you're talking about doesn't mean you get to change the subject.

[exstatic]

The Spurs should still try to sign a couple of old vets who can be coaches on the floor.

No. No signings at all.

Players go out, picks come back.

Players come in, accompanied by picks as cap rental.

Nothing else.

[Ariel]

McDermott's deal doesn't matter much, it's only $13.75 million. Not the kind of money I'd give up assets to get out of.
You can't make the case that taking in 10M worth of salaries is a huge deal, while dismissing the value of ridding yourself of 14M. If anything else, it's one more thing you can leverage next year.
But the main thing is, if THERE IS NOT ENOUGH DRAFT COMPENSATION (which neither the Lakers nor the Nets appear to have in excess of what's being discussed here), another viable alternative is reducing the cap burden on such a deal, and sell it to someone else in a different deal. So you'd still have 20M of salary cap to sell in 2022, AND everything you already had PLUS an additional 14M of salary cap in 2023 that you just opened up. That's also something to consider.
In short, I'm all for getting as much as we can... but if you can't get the return you expect for the whole package (whole salary cap + Poeltl + Richardson), then taking good value for a part and selling the rest in one or more subsequent trades is not a bad way to go IMO.

You're trying to take a worst case scenario for the Spurs. Like Poetl's going to tell Sean Marks to fuck off and he's leaving next summer.
I'm not trying to take a worst case scenario as you're trying to make a best case. The truth is: both are possible, none are guaranteed. Which is why the value lies somewhere in between.

[baseline bum]

I'm not trying to take a worst case scenario as you're trying to make a best case. The truth is: both are possible, none are guaranteed. Which is why the value lies somewhere in between.

Yes you are when you call Poetl a four month rental like the Spurs were trading some disgruntled piece of shit.

[baseline bum]

Poeltl will go to whoever gives him the most money. He hasn't had his big payday yet. There will be a lot of teams with cap space and a pretty mediocre free agent class. Together with the cap increase there'll be some eye-popping deals.

Which will probably be Brooklyn since they'd have his Bird Rights and are willing to spend.

[Ariel]

:lol ok... you're taking it personal. I said that's all that's guaranteed (which is true). But no point in going back and forth when we've made our respective cases pretty clearly. Let's agree to disagree.

[exstatic]

It's the only thing they're guaranteed to get. Could they re-sign him? Sure. But the fact is, the contractual situation doesn't guarantee that, and pretending that isn't a factor is what's downright ridiculous.

If someone really wants Poeltl long term, he can be extended as part of the trade. That would up his value as a long term asset, though. They’d have to pay us more for a locked in asset.

[DPG21920]

McDermott's deal doesn't matter much, it's only $13.75 million. Not the kind of money I'd give up assets to get out of.

Agreed. Im saying I would be thrilled to consolidate that money into one year of WB though. Does it take priority? No, but it would be a very nice perk

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Which will probably be Brooklyn since they'd have his Bird Rights and are willing to spend.

Maybe, maybe not. But his bird rights won't mean anything when Sacramento comes for him with a 4/80 mil offer. Nets are projected to pay almost $100 mil in luxury tax alone this season, they're unlikely to find an overpriced Poeltl worth it.

Besides, there's more context there - Nets aren't trading Kyrie and keeping Durant. Their only chance to keep Durant would be to somehow convince them both to give it one more go. They're most likely trading both, starting with Durant first. Also Poeltl is a very bad fit with Simmons, if that dude ever plays basketball again, that is.

[baseline bum]

:lol ok... you're taking it personal. I said that's all that's guaranteed (which is true). But no point in going back and forth when we've made our respective cases pretty clearly. Let's agree to disagree.

I think it's worth factoring in that Brooklyn is an extremely desirable destination with deep pockets to pay Poetl who will also probably be a title contender next season since I doubt Durant is going anywhere.

[scott]

Despite appearing to be fully committed to a rebuild, I'm afraid this rebuild still lacks coherence or a general direction.

The Spurs have mountains of cap space and are sellers for now, but being a seller requires a bit of luck. It requires needy buyers in order to maximize the value of what you're selling. Unfortunately for the Spurs, they appear to be sellers in a dry market and timvp's, intelligence points to having to sell low in order for us to affect our "plan".

With that said, I say "plan" because this is where the lack of coherence becomes obvious. We just drafted three promising rookies, and we appear in prime position for a top pick in next year's allegedly stacked draft (I use the term allegedly, because you never really know how any of these kids will pan out. We may look back and see that none or only a few of these touted prospects panned out. We also have an entire year of basketball to play for these prospects to get sorted out on a big board)... but we are simultaneously adding picks for well into the future. If we trade Jak/JRich/McD for some 2027 picks, you'll be left with a team of kids with no semblance of mentorship (regardless of whether these guys are the "right mentors") and a questionable development track. Effectively, at that point, you're looking at an extended rebuild where we *hope* to be competitive again by the 2028/2029 seasons. By then, these three promising rookies, along with Keldon, Devin, Primo, etc. will have likely not panned out (due to lack of mentorship) or shipped off for even more future assets (because they don't fit the timeline) and the can just keeps getting kicked down the road while we sit around waiting for Superman.

Perhaps this is the only way, because of the (lack of) appeal of the San Antonio market. But it seems like there should be a better way that doesn't require a half decade+ of forever rebuilding. I get the sense that Brian Wright has gone into Presti-simulation mode where is playing a real life game of 2K where you simulate the season to just have fun in the offseason. This is also how you become a forever bad team, like the Kings.

All of my optimism over "picking a direction" is lost because the direction appears too broad and not strategically thought out. Despite $500 million invested in facilities, this is also how the story of a move to Austin (or somewhere else) is initially written. A team stuck in the gutter, slumping attendance in a market that can't attract players... $500 million becomes a minor sunk cost (much of which can be recouped as the real estate is repurposed into something else) in the big picture value of a move. It requires a Nelson Wolfe-level of naïveté to think the training complex is any kind of real guardrail against the Spurs eventual departure. The only thing that can stave this off is a compelling product on the way back to relevance. The FO doesn't appear to have fully fleshed out a strategy of how to achieve that.

[baseline bum]

Maybe, maybe not. But his bird rights won't mean anything when Sacramento comes for him with a 4/80 mil offer. Nets are projected to pay almost $100 mil in luxury tax alone this season, they're unlikely to find an overpriced Poeltl worth it.

Besides, there's more context there - Nets aren't trading Kyrie and keeping Durant. Their only chance to keep Durant would be to somehow convince them both to give it one more go. They're most likely trading both, starting with Durant first. Also Poeltl is a very bad fit with Simmons, if that dude ever plays basketball again, that is.

Nets don't seem like they're trading Durant. Especially now with Ayton off the market which kills Phoenix's ability to make a move for him.

[baseline bum]

Despite appearing to be fully committed to a rebuild, I'm afraid this rebuild still lacks coherence or a general direction.

The Spurs have mountains of cap space and are sellers for now, but being a seller requires a bit of luck. It requires needy buyers in order to maximize the value of what you're selling. Unfortunately for the Spurs, they appear to be sellers in a dry market and timvp's, intelligence points to having to sell low in order for us to affect our "plan".

With that said, I say "plan" because this is where the lack of coherence becomes obvious. We just drafted three promising rookies, and we appear in prime position for a top pick in next year's allegedly stacked draft (I use the term allegedly, because you never really know how any of these kids will pan out. We may look back and see that none or only a few of these touted prospects panned out. We also have an entire year of basketball to play for these prospects to get sorted out on a big board)... but we are simultaneously adding picks for well into the future. If we trade Jak/JRich/McD for some 2027 picks, you'll be left with a team of kids with no semblance of mentorship (regardless of whether these guys are the "right mentors") and a questionable development track. Effectively, at that point, you're looking at an extended rebuild where we *hope* to be competitive again by the 2028/2029 seasons. By then, these three promising rookies, along with Keldon, Devin, Primo, etc. will have likely not panned out (due to lack of mentorship) or shipped off for even more future assets (because they don't fit the timeline) and the can just keeps getting kicked down the road while we sit around waiting for Superman.

Perhaps this is the only way, because of the (lack of) appeal of the San Antonio market. But it seems like there should be a better way that doesn't require a half decade+ of forever rebuilding. I get the sense that Brian Wright has gone into Presti-simulation mode where is playing a real life game of 2K where you simulate the season to just have fun in the offseason. This is also how you become a forever bad team, like the Kings.

All of my optimism over "picking a direction" is lost because the direction appears too broad and not strategically thought out. Despite $500 million invested in facilities, this is also how the story of a move to Austin (or somewhere else) is initially written. A team stuck in the gutter, slumping attendance in a market that can't attract players... $500 million becomes a minor sunk cost (much of which can be recouped as the real estate is repurposed into something else) in the big picture value of a move. It requires a Nelson Wolfe-level of naïveté to think the training complex is any kind of real guardrail against the Spurs eventual departure. The only thing that can stave this off is a compelling product on the way back to relevance. The FO doesn't appear to have fully fleshed out a strategy of how to achieve that.

Problem is they're not getting anything very useful with their late lottery picks when trying to half ass the rebuild. Vassell and Primo have both been disappointments so far and hard to see star potential in a guy who averaged 9 pg in Sochan also. This team desperately needs talent and top 5 picks are it's best chance.

[Leetonidas]

I don't mind the Spurs "helping" LA in this scenario. They've done a decent job of not having issues with Klutch so being in their good graces may be beneficial down the line

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Nets don't seem like they're trading Durant. Especially now with Ayton off the market which kills Phoenix's ability to make a move for him.

It's an entirely different topic but I doubt the Ayton situation has much to do with the Durant to Phoenix possibility. Ayton with his max contract is unlikely to be a desirable trade chip for Brooklyn. Durant to Phoenix is still just as likely as before, i.e. not much.

The Gobert trade has killed Durant's possible destinations.

[baseline bum]

It's an entirely different topic but I doubt the Ayton situation has much to do with the Durant to Phoenix possibility. Ayton with his max contract is unlikely to be a desirable trade chip for Brooklyn. Durant to Phoenix is still just as likely as before, i.e. not much.

The Gobert trade has killed Durant's possible destinations.

I think it's way less likely. Even though Brooklyn wanted no part of Ayton, he was the Suns' best asset in a 3 or 4 team deal. Bridges + Cam Johnson and crap matching salary plus picks isn't going to get it done.

[Seventyniner]

I don't share the Spurs' level of desire for completely unprotected picks. It's one thing to see Charlotte's 2023 pick as unideal. It's another to think getting a top-four protected first or a swapped pick like what Utah got for O'Neal as anathema. I get grabbing a couple in the future. I also get trying to stack some in 2023. But they shouldn't be trying to play the lotto in 2028 or whatever when they could get multiple bites in earlier years instead.

I agree.

Getting totally unprotected picks either requires pushing them out several years (increasing the risk in both directions) or getting one from a team who is so likely to be good in the year it conveys that they don't mind not protecting it.

Meanwhile, the Spurs specifically have a good chance of getting more value out of a 17th pick and a 21st pick than a 12th pick, for example. Even a late first counts as a bite at the apple.

[Robz4000]

Despite appearing to be fully committed to a rebuild, I'm afraid this rebuild still lacks coherence or a general direction.

The Spurs have mountains of cap space and are sellers for now, but being a seller requires a bit of luck. It requires needy buyers in order to maximize the value of what you're selling. Unfortunately for the Spurs, they appear to be sellers in a dry market and timvp's, intelligence points to having to sell low in order for us to affect our "plan".

With that said, I say "plan" because this is where the lack of coherence becomes obvious. We just drafted three promising rookies, and we appear in prime position for a top pick in next year's allegedly stacked draft (I use the term allegedly, because you never really know how any of these kids will pan out. We may look back and see that none or only a few of these touted prospects panned out. We also have an entire year of basketball to play for these prospects to get sorted out on a big board)... but we are simultaneously adding picks for well into the future. If we trade Jak/JRich/McD for some 2027 picks, you'll be left with a team of kids with no semblance of mentorship (regardless of whether these guys are the "right mentors") and a questionable development track. Effectively, at that point, you're looking at an extended rebuild where we *hope* to be competitive again by the 2028/2029 seasons. By then, these three promising rookies, along with Keldon, Devin, Primo, etc. will have likely not panned out (due to lack of mentorship) or shipped off for even more future assets (because they don't fit the timeline) and the can just keeps getting kicked down the road while we sit around waiting for Superman.

Perhaps this is the only way, because of the (lack of) appeal of the San Antonio market. But it seems like there should be a better way that doesn't require a half decade+ of forever rebuilding. I get the sense that Brian Wright has gone into Presti-simulation mode where is playing a real life game of 2K where you simulate the season to just have fun in the offseason. This is also how you become a forever bad team, like the Kings.

All of my optimism over "picking a direction" is lost because the direction appears too broad and not strategically thought out. Despite $500 million invested in facilities, this is also how the story of a move to Austin (or somewhere else) is initially written. A team stuck in the gutter, slumping attendance in a market that can't attract players... $500 million becomes a minor sunk cost (much of which can be recouped as the real estate is repurposed into something else) in the big picture value of a move. It requires a Nelson Wolfe-level of naïveté to think the training complex is any kind of real guardrail against the Spurs eventual departure. The only thing that can stave this off is a compelling product on the way back to relevance. The FO doesn't appear to have fully fleshed out a strategy of how to achieve that.

Wouldn't shock me if the whole plan is to be stacked with assets in time for a move tbh. Being bad for the next decade to dissuade fan support makes it even easier.

[exstatic]

Problem is they're not getting anything very useful with their late lottery picks when trying to half ass the rebuild. Vassell and Primo have both been disappointments so far and hard to see star potential in a guy who averaged 9 pg in Sochan also. This team desperately needs talent and top 5 picks are it's best chance.

Devin Booker averaged 10 ppg at Kentucky, and was drafted at #13. If it were just about scoring, drafting would be easy. You’d just go down the NCAA scoring list. It ain’t that.

[KingKev]

If someone really wants Poeltl long term, he can be extended as part of the trade. That would up his value as a long term asset, though. They’d have to pay us more for a locked in asset.

His extension max probably isn’t in his best interest at 4yrs/60mm… better to explore FA.

[mo7888]

The Nets aren't going to take that while we get 2 unprotected FRPs for an expiring... maybe one unprotected pick + unprotected Lakers swap to Brooklyn, and one unprotected Lakers pick + a protected pick from the Nets (they have Philly's 2023 pick) to us... that would sound better.

I don't see a scenario where Brooklyn gets 2 real players and a young prospect + a pick for an expiring Kyrie...

[KingKev]

Bruh, we're talking about 'seasoned' players. I said that McDermott is one, easily. We're not talking about salaries or specific players. Jus tbecause you don't know what the fuck you're talking about doesn't mean you get to change the subject.

I’d rather get off of McD’s contract if I can and bring in other vets on 1yr deals considering our cap situation. JRich has more value in a trade than holding him for mentorship and he probably wants to go win elsewhere anyways.

[rascal]

maybe

but to lose purtle and help the lakers for "maybe" 1 frp is just horrible - as some were saying

Either that or nothing. No guarantee there will be another offer for an unprotected FRP for Poeltl.

[poopbox]

Am I reading this correctly? It's suggesting the Spurs would be willing to trade away Poeltl and Richardson in addition to absorbing Westbrook in exchange for a single unprotected pick. For me, that's not okay. The only way it's a little acceptable if it's Richardson, McDermott, Poeltl and Langford for Westbrook and the pick AFTER the Spurs are able to use their cap space to acquire even more picks. The idea of trading away valuable players and cap space for such a minor return just wouldn't sit right with me.

Valuable player? We have bottom 5 nba talent right now. We might legit be the worst team in the entire nba. No such thing as a "valuable player" on this roster.

[Spurs Homer]

Either that or nothing. No guarantee there will be another offer for an unprotected FRP for Poeltl.

then keep him!

not a bad player at all - there are many worse centers in the nba - especially considering the salaries -

[cd98]

The thing about unprotected picks is not just that it is an opportunity no matter how small to get a surprise lottery pick, it’s also that it actually conveys that year and isn’t continually kicked down the road and potentially turning into a second round pick. Even if Atlanta picks aren’t lottery, we know we are getting an extra pick those years and bc they are unprotected, they are good trade assets should the Spurs be in the market for a star.

[cd98]

Do people think Vassel is a disappointment? I think he’s improving every year and while it’s debatable if he can be the 2nd or 3 rd best player on a good team, I think he’s a good piece for a good team. But I think he has 3D star potential.

[KingKev]

Do people think Vassel is a disappointment? I think he’s improving every year and while it’s debatable if he can be the 2nd or 3 rd best player on a good team, I think he’s a good piece for a good team. But I think he has 3D star potential.

2nd or 3rd best player is a pipe dream based in what we have seen so far but his progress has been adequate, he was a fair pick at 12 will probably have a long career in the NBA.

[Ariel]

I don't see a scenario where Brooklyn gets 2 real players and a young prospect + a pick for an expiring Kyrie...
Poeltl and Richardson are also expiring, and if by young prospect you mean Langford, all indications are that he's nothing but dead weight for the Spurs... no one expects him to contribute or else you'd have seen him in summer league at least. So basically he's in there as a salary filler with negative value, not an asset. That for someone who proved he can be the second best player on a championship team, is almost ridiculously low value. The only reason the Nets might take that is because:
1) Lakers will need to add draft capital
2) They have no choice, he's a nutcase with no other market and they'll lose him in a year for nothing.
Other than that he'd command significantly more than that. In this case, getting his Bird rights actually are extremely important because that almost guarantees you'll get him long term.

[scott]

Right now our team building strategy is wholly dependent upon landing a generational talent. That leaves no margin for error and means we'll either have a Bucks-like transformation with Giannis, or just suck forever. And that's discouraging.

[Ariel]

2nd or 3rd best player is a pipe dream based in what we have seen so far but his progress has been adequate, he was a fair pick at 12 will probably have a long career in the NBA.
Not bad at all, if we forget we passed on Haliburton for him (stupid, stupid move).

[TDMVPDPOY]

Which will probably be Brooklyn since they'd have his Bird Rights and are willing to spend.

can easily replace him with a big for less money, bigs are just making up the numbers on the roster today anyway...i say u trade him for whatever crap, sign baynes on a cheap contract...he take it...

if the pacers wanna do a deal to get rid of contracts, spurs should take turner....

[tonight...you]

can easily replace him with a big for less money, bigs are just making up the numbers on the roster today anyway...i say u trade him for whatever crap, sign baynes on a cheap contract...he take it...

if the pacers wanna do a deal to get rid of contracts, spurs should take turner....
You can say that, but you're a retard.
So... fuck off.

[LkrFan]

1548069795920166912

[LkrFan]

Assuming it’s their 2027 FRP, that’s a long ways away from now. Lebron will have retired and AD will be in a wheelchair somewhere. The lakers could be hot ass and in a rebuild by then. Easy trade imo.

:rollin :lmao :rollin

[TiMMeH*faN*frOmNY]

Looks like the article is gaining legs on social media.

[Dejounte]

Timvp is getting the web traffic to pay the bills again so we can have back the edit function

[JeffDuncan]

Assuming it’s their 2027 FRP, that’s a long ways away from now. Lebron will have retired and AD will be in a wheelchair somewhere. The lakers could be hot ass and in a rebuild by then. Easy trade imo.


Heck, AD could be in a wheelchair in December.

[Mr. Body]

Timvp is getting the web traffic to pay the bills again so we can have back the edit function

We have the edit function. It works.

EDIT: No it doesn't.

[mo7888]

Poeltl and Richardson are also expiring, and if by young prospect you mean Langford, all indications are that he's nothing but dead weight for the Spurs... no one expects him to contribute or else you'd have seen him in summer league at least. So basically he's in there as a salary filler with negative value, not an asset. That for someone who proved he can be the second best player on a championship team, is almost ridiculously low value. The only reason the Nets might take that is because:
1) Lakers will need to add draft capital
2) They have no choice, he's a nutcase with no other market and they'll lose him in a year for nothing.
Other than that he'd command significantly more than that. In this case, getting his Bird rights actually are extremely important because that almost guarantees you'll get him long term.

We see it differently...they could surely get assurances from jak and Josh on new contracts before they do the deal and both are highly likely to want to stay with the Nets anyway...as for Langford it just depends on how they see a young former 1st rd draft pick who plays hard on D...if they want him then they value him but if they prefer lowering their tax bill by leaving him out we can accommodate...

[Ariel]

We see it differently...they could surely get assurances from jak and Josh on new contracts before they do the deal and both are highly likely to want to stay with the Nets anyway...as for Langford it just depends on how they see a young former 1st rd draft pick who plays hard on D...if they want him then they value him but if they prefer lowering their tax bill by leaving him out we can accommodate...
Poeltl & Richardson I actually like, don't get me wrong. But for the needs the Lakers have for Kyrie, I definitely think it's not a high price, provided the we get enough draft compensation from the Lakers and/or Nets. As for Langford, I expect nothing from him. But I hope I'm wrong and you're not.

[TiMMeH*faN*frOmNY]

Timvp is getting the web traffic to pay the bills again so we can have back the edit function
:downspin:

[Ariel]

https://hoopshype.com/2022/07/15/jakob-poeltl-on-the-move/

A Spurs insider tells me that starting center Jakob Poeltl is likely to be traded by the start of the season. (https://www.spurstalk.com/latest-spurs-intel-deandre-ayton-domino/) Now that Ayton is back with the Suns, the market for Poeltl should begin to heat up. Josh Richardson is also actively being shopped by the Spurs and could find a new home sooner rather than later.
Source: LJ Ellis @ SpursTalk (https://www.spurstalk.com/latest-spurs-intel-deandre-ayton-domino/)
https://hoopshype.com/2022/07/15/spurs-want-draft-picks-to-help-with-kyrie-irving-trade/

According to multiple sources, the trade that is closest to happening involves Kyrie Irving being sent to the Los Angeles Lakers and Russell Westbrook being routed to the Spurs. To facilitate that trade, the sources tell me the Spurs want an unprotected first round pick from the Lakers (https://www.spurstalk.com/latest-spurs-intel-deandre-ayton-domino/).
Source: LJ Ellis @ SpursTalk (https://www.spurstalk.com/latest-spurs-intel-deandre-ayton-domino/)

[Ariel]

I used to go to HoopsHype to get some Spurs info... I guess that's not necessary anymore.

[tim_duncan_fan]

1548069795920166912

I would start the negotiations with 3 unprotected.

Mortgage the future or waste a couple of Lebron years. I'm good with either.

[kobyz]

If that happens i would feel betray as a Spurs fan, gifting the Lakers such dream scenario, for only one pick which very well be late first, discrase!

[Russ]

Assuming it’s their 2027 FRP, that’s a long ways away from now. Lebron will have retired and AD will be in a wheelchair somewhere. The lakers could be hot ass and in a rebuild by then. Easy trade imo.

The problem with rebuilding is timing.

By the time the 2027 pick conveys, Wesley, Branham, Sochan and Primo will be pretty much as old as DJ Murray (KJ and Vassell will be even older).

At some point, you gotta take a stand. Maybe even turn around and put up a fight (or at least act like it). :toast

[LkrFan]

I would start the negotiations with 3 unprotected.

Mortgage the future or waste a couple of Lebron years. I'm good with either.

You can't ask for what the Lakers don't have son. Most of their tradeable draft picks are in New Orleans.

But your point is well taken :lol

[LkrFan]

I would start the negotiations with 3 unprotected.

Mortgage the future or waste a couple of Lebron years. I'm good with either.

You can't ask for what the Lakers don't have son. Most of their tradeable draft picks are in New Orleans.

But your point is well taken :lol

[tim_duncan_fan]

You can't ask for what the Lakers don't have son. Most of their tradeable draft picks are in New Orleans.

But your point is well taken :lol

Damn, man. Broke-ass lakers. Mitch Kupchak would never.

[tonight...you]

Damn, man. Broke-ass lakers. Mitch Kupchak would never.
Jerry West would have them at 2 more 'chips by now.
He's with the LA Kawhi's now, where it's not his passion-place to be.

[scott]

We see it differently...they could surely get assurances from jak and Josh on new contracts before they do the deal and both are highly likely to want to stay with the Nets anyway...as for Langford it just depends on how they see a young former 1st rd draft pick who plays hard on D...if they want him then they value him but if they prefer lowering their tax bill by leaving him out we can accommodate...

Sounds like exactly the kind of player we should be interested in... yet aren't.

[LkrFan]

Damn, man. Broke-ass lakers. Mitch Kupchak would never.

:lol

[ismael-robert]

I'd like timvp to bring back the thumbs down feature to get some of the stupid posts on here voted off

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1509990164415893517/qIuzsMq6_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)2m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1548136490730803200)
After 14 years, Lakers star Russell Westbrook and his agent Thad Foucher of Wasserman have parted ways, Foucher tells ESPN:

[Leetonidas]

Westbrook just fired the agent he'd had his entire career because he wanted him to stay in LA...

[Thomas82]

No. No signings at all.

Players go out, picks come back.

Players come in, accompanied by picks as cap rental.

Nothing else.

I'm with this 100%!!

[exstatic]

Westbrook just fired the agent he'd had his entire career because he wanted him to stay in LA...

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/aVOSkIC.gif

[south side spur]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34250337/russell-westbrook-long-agent-thad-foucher-parting-ways-irreconcilable-differences

In a statement, Foucher said: "I represented Russell Westbrook for 14 years and am proud of our partnership which included a highly successful 2008 draft, a super-max contract and the only renegotiation-and-extend max contract in history.

I also supported Russell throughout his rise into a prominent fashion industry figure and recently orchestrated three successive trades on Russell's behalf -- culminating with the trade to his hometown Los Angeles Lakers.

Each time, teams gave up valuable players and assets to acquire Russell -- and each time, a new organization embraced his arrival. We did it together with grace and class.

Now, with a possibility of a fourth trade in four years, the marketplace is telling the Lakers they must add additional value with Russell in any trade scenario. And even then, such a trade may require Russell to immediately move on from the new team via buyout.

My belief is that this type of transaction only serves to diminish Russell's value and his best option is to stay with the Lakers, embrace the starting role and support that Darvin Ham publicly offered. Russell is a first-ballot Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame player and will prove that again before he is retired.

Unfortunately, irreconcilable differences exist as to his best pathway forward and we are no longer working together. I wish Russell and his family the very best."

[KingKev]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34250337/russell-westbrook-long-agent-thad-foucher-parting-ways-irreconcilable-differences

In a statement, Foucher said: "I represented Russell Westbrook for 14 years and am proud of our partnership which included a highly successful 2008 draft, a super-max contract and the only renegotiation-and-extend max contract in history.

I also supported Russell throughout his rise into a prominent fashion industry figure and recently orchestrated three successive trades on Russell's behalf -- culminating with the trade to his hometown Los Angeles Lakers.

Each time, teams gave up valuable players and assets to acquire Russell -- and each time, a new organization embraced his arrival. We did it together with grace and class.

Now, with a possibility of a fourth trade in four years, the marketplace is telling the Lakers they must add additional value with Russell in any trade scenario. And even then, such a trade may require Russell to immediately move on from the new team via buyout.

My belief is that this type of transaction only serves to diminish Russell's value and his best option is to stay with the Lakers, embrace the starting role and support that Darvin Ham publicly offered. Russell is a first-ballot Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame player and will prove that again before he is retired.

Unfortunately, irreconcilable differences exist as to his best pathway forward and we are no longer working together. I wish Russell and his family the very best."


Haha preach. Shoulda kept that to himself though.

Our team is going to be terrible for an eternity; I’d rather watch this shit show flame out than only get 1FRP for the liberty of buying out Russ to join a contender.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Lots of salt from that agent, he should have kept his mouth shut, but it sure seems a deal is getting closer and closer.

[John B]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/aVOSkIC.gif

Damn if Pop would help long term rival Lakers much less in the tune of 47 mil Westbrook. Yikes :dizzy

[exstatic]

Damn if Pop would help long term rival Lakers much less in the tune of 47 mil Westbrook. Yikes :dizzy

I don’t believe OKC has ever gotten an unprotected FRP for cap room. This is a strong arm by PATFO.

[Leetonidas]

People really need to stop calling a potential LA trade helping the Lakers. Getting an unprotected pick helps us immensely. Who cares if they get out of Westbrook a season earlier for it

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don’t believe OKC has ever gotten an unprotected FRP for cap room. This is a strong arm by PATFO.

They haven't.

The closest thing I can remember is Clippers salary dumping Baron Davis to Cleveland with an unprotected pick. This pick became the number 1 pick of the 2011 draft.

[Chinook]

Depends on how you define it. If it has to be straight-up unprotected, that's rare. If it just has to guaranteed to convey (meaning it starts off protected and eventually becomes unprotected), the Warriors pick Memphis holds would qualify. They got it for taking Iggy five years ago. It's lightly protected next year but completely unprotected in 2026.

[Atl Spur]

I don’t believe OKC has ever gotten an unprotected FRP for cap room. This is a strong arm by PATFO.

Exactly….

[cd98]

I will say if Spurs take Westbrook in a trade and release, that’s some expensive first round picks.

[exstatic]

I will say if Spurs take Westbrook in a trade and release, that’s some expensive first round picks.

Dumping $47M in salary means nothing. It’s not like we can turn around and trade him. No one wants him without compensation, and he’d be a terrible fit. The unprotected FRP and an empty roster spot are more important to development. Besides, we need to load up on some salary to hit minimum payroll anyway. He doesn’t come off this years cap when cut, so, mission accomplished, without carrying a couple of old vets via salary dump.

[exstatic]

I will say if Spurs take Westbrook in a trade and release, that’s some expensive first round picks.

Dumping $47M in salary means nothing. It’s not like we can turn around and trade him. No one wants him without compensation, and he’d be a terrible fit. The unprotected FRP and an empty roster spot are more important to development. Besides, we need to load up on some salary to hit minimum payroll anyway. He doesn’t come off this years cap when cut, so, mission accomplished, without carrying a couple of old vets via salary dump.

[RC_Drunkford]

I will say if Spurs take Westbrook in a trade and release, that’s some expensive first round picks.

not really since you have to pay out at least 90% of your cap space and the Spurs are under that by quite a lot

[CGD]

I will say if Spurs take Westbrook in a trade and release, that’s some expensive first round picks.

What’s the going rate of a protected FRP these days? Thought it was around $20M no?

[CGD]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34250337/russell-westbrook-long-agent-thad-foucher-parting-ways-irreconcilable-differences

In a statement, Foucher said: "I represented Russell Westbrook for 14 years and am proud of our partnership which included a highly successful 2008 draft, a super-max contract and the only renegotiation-and-extend max contract in history.

I also supported Russell throughout his rise into a prominent fashion industry figure and recently orchestrated three successive trades on Russell's behalf -- culminating with the trade to his hometown Los Angeles Lakers.

Each time, teams gave up valuable players and assets to acquire Russell -- and each time, a new organization embraced his arrival. We did it together with grace and class.

Now, with a possibility of a fourth trade in four years, the marketplace is telling the Lakers they must add additional value with Russell in any trade scenario. And even then, such a trade may require Russell to immediately move on from the new team via buyout.

My belief is that this type of transaction only serves to diminish Russell's value and his best option is to stay with the Lakers, embrace the starting role and support that Darvin Ham publicly offered. Russell is a first-ballot Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame player and will prove that again before he is retired.

Unfortunately, irreconcilable differences exist as to his best pathway forward and we are no longer working together. I wish Russell and his family the very best."

Truth nukes.

Agent is right to protect his own reputation in my opinion. These players get away with murder and it’s always everyone else’s fault.

[exstatic]

What’s the going rate of a protected FRP these days? Thought it was around $20M no?

They’re holding out for unprotected,which is why it hasn’t gone down yet.

[CGD]

They’re holding out for unprotected,which is why it hasn’t gone down yet.

I get that. I’d obviously like more for eating that large amount, but if it’s unprotected plus someone eats Doug that’s makes sense to me. Based on a quick look Spurs would have to send something out to make it work, that or we’re taking Harris off the Nets instead of Brick in such a deal.

[mo7888]

I get that. I’d obviously like more for eating that large amount, but if it’s unprotected plus someone eats Doug that’s makes sense to me. Based on a quick look Spurs would have to send something out to make it work, that or we’re taking Harris off the Nets instead of Brick in such a deal.

I believe I'd still try to find a deal with Charlotte. Maybe a 3 way with LA.

LA- Hayward
Charlotte- McDermott
Spurs- WB, protections removed from Cha pick, top 3 protected future LA pick.

As good as the 23 draft is at the top I'd try everything I could to get a 2nd top 10 pick in this draft.

[exstatic]

I get that. I’d obviously like more for eating that large amount, but if it’s unprotected plus someone eats Doug that’s makes sense to me. Based on a quick look Spurs would have to send something out to make it work, that or we’re taking Harris off the Nets instead of Brick in such a deal.

We can’t eat Russ’s entire contract. It’s $47M, and we have like $36M in room, so either Doug or JRich have to go outward. I’m in favor of Doug going.

[JuneJive]

As good as the 23 draft is at the top I'd try everything I could to get a 2nd top 10 pick in this draft.

Agree. The draft class looks very deep. Not so top heavy, but with a lot of good-to-great options up to pick ~15

[MannyIsGod]

I think Chinook would normally be right in this thread, but if I'm the Spurs I'm willing to concede some value to get those Laker's picks as unprotected. I really think those picks are high probability lottery picks and think that protections on them really erode their value.

[Mr. Body]

I believe I'd still try to find a deal with Charlotte. Maybe a 3 way with LA.

LA- Hayward
Charlotte- McDermott
Spurs- WB, protections removed from Cha pick, top 3 protected future LA pick.

As good as the 23 draft is at the top I'd try everything I could to get a 2nd top 10 pick in this draft.

I'm not sure Charlotte is in as bad a shape cap-wise and needing to get rid of Hayward due to the whole Bridges thing.

[mo7888]

I'm not sure Charlotte is in as bad a shape cap-wise and needing to get rid of Hayward due to the whole Bridges thing.

That could be...it'd depend on what else they might have in place elsewhere I'd think. It also would free up 24 and 25 if they needed to do something with one of those picks by moving the protections on this year's pick. That might have some value to them going forward as well.

[KingKev]

I believe I'd still try to find a deal with Charlotte. Maybe a 3 way with LA.

LA- Hayward
Charlotte- McDermott
Spurs- WB, protections removed from Cha pick, top 3 protected future LA pick.

As good as the 23 draft is at the top I'd try everything I could to get a 2nd top 10 pick in this draft.

Charlotte would never do this. They save 20mm a yr for two years and lose what will probably be a top 10 pick? A healthy Hayward will have value both this season and a year from now, while McBooger will always be a terrible contract.

[mo7888]

Charlotte would never do this. They save 20mm a yr for two years and lose what will probably be a top 10 pick? A healthy Hayward will have value both this season and a year from now, while McBooger will always be a terrible contract.

I believe it's $30M/year.. and if they think they'll be a bottom 10 team they won't do it...if they think this frees them up for something else they have in mind they might and the increased flexibility of freeing up the 24 and/or 25 picks would help with that.

[LkrFan]

https://nbaanalysis.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/NBA-Analyst-Suggests-Potential-Russell-Westbrook-To-Spurs-Trade-678x381.jpeg

:downspin:

[RC_Drunkford]

I think Chinook would normally be right in this thread, but if I'm the Spurs I'm willing to concede some value to get those Laker's picks as unprotected. I really think those picks are high probability lottery picks and think that protections on them really erode their value.

What do you mean by those? It would be 1 pick. They would send the other one to Brooklyn.

[KingKev]

I believe it's $30M/year.. and if they think they'll be a bottom 10 team they won't do it...if they think this frees them up for something else they have in mind they might and the increased flexibility of freeing up the 24 and/or 25 picks would help with that.

They are taking back 14mm a yr over the same period.

[scott]

I believe I'd still try to find a deal with Charlotte. Maybe a 3 way with LA.

LA- Hayward
Charlotte- McDermott
Spurs- WB, protections removed from Cha pick, top 3 protected future LA pick.

As good as the 23 draft is at the top I'd try everything I could to get a 2nd top 10 pick in this draft.

Maybe you let CHA to go top 4 or top 6 protected in this scenario. The Lakers pick needs to be fully unprotected. I just don't see how CHA makes this trade though. Swapping Hayward for Doug makes them worse (meaning they'd want to keep the protections). Only way CHA lifts the protections is if they believe whatever they are acquiring makes them better (playoff bound)

[mo7888]

Maybe you let CHA to go top 4 or top 6 protected in this scenario. The Lakers pick needs to be fully unprotected. I just don't see how CHA makes this trade though. Swapping Hayward for Doug makes them worse (meaning they'd want to keep the protections). Only way CHA lifts the protections is if they believe whatever they are acquiring makes them better (playoff bound)

It's true that they probably only do this if they have another target lined up. Lifting the protection does benefit them by allowing them to trade future picks in a subsequent deal though...and if they'd rather have Richardson than Doug to save more money then that's fine as well..

[MannyIsGod]

What do you mean by those? It would be 1 pick. They would send the other one to Brooklyn.

So? Which ever one the Spurs would end up with, I'm still talking about both so why wouldn't I say "those".