Judgment Day: Manu or Parker, WHO YA GOT?

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

.

[Mnky]

Manu. Impacted the game at all levels and people wanted to play with him. His teammates loved him and trusted him. Good communicator. Just made the team better on so many levels.

[slick'81]

Both had great longevity but in their primes ?! Its manu hands down

[Robz4000]

Roger Mason Jr imo

[KingKev]

Stephen Jackson.

[MVPCues]

???? Even with holding a grudge over The Foul, it is Manu. Most lopsided poll ever on ST?

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

???? Even with holding a grudge over The Foul, it is Manu. Most lopsided poll ever on ST?

Brazil better rally the cheese-eating army, stat!

[couchman]

Thankfully we got both!
Manu if I have to choose but dang this is tough. Love 'em both

[lefty]

Brazil vs DAF86 let’s go

[BackHome]

Both - It seems some people can’t let shit go

[Dex]

Manu had greater peaks and amazing moments...but Parker was consistently the engine that made this team go.

He was a top 5 PG in the NBA for like 10 years and still people don't give him his due because Duncan was a GOAT and Manu was flashy.

Duncan was #1 obviously...but Parker and Manu are 2A and 2B for different reasons, and I would argue that Parker carried more of the load as a starter and a scorer

[Biggems]

I had to vote Manu. He had the most iconic block in franchise history. He out a bad and got rabies shots for the team. He gave his right nut for the team. He sacrificed his ego and went to the bench for the betterment of the team. Manu hands down. Manu was a great teammate.

Tony was vital to our success. He was a top 5 PG in the league for a long time. He won the Finals MVP. However, he did try to fuck the wife/wives of his teammates. That could have been and probably was a huge issue in the locker room. You never fuck your teammate's gal....and especially if you have your own desperate housewife at home.

[Rocalcio]

I’m French but I’ll go for Manu on this.

[benefactor]

2009 called. It want's it's thread back

[KobesAchilles]

Manu on the court and Tony off the court

[benefactor]

Manu on the court and Tony off the court
Didn't Tony fuck his teammates wife?:lol

[goliath]

I think Parker was the better player over his career and was more vital to the teams success. However, Manu was funner to watch, had higher highs (and probably lower lows) and had more memorable moments. Like Dex said they were probably 2A 2B to Duncan. That said if I had to choose only one, I probably would go with Manu

[GAustex]

I had to vote Manu. He had the most iconic block in franchise history. He out a bad and got rabies shots for the team. He gave his right nut for the team. He sacrificed his ego and went to the bench for the betterment of the team. Manu hands down. Manu was a great teammate.

Tony was vital to our success. He was a top 5 PG in the league for a long time. He won the Finals MVP. However, he did try to fuck the wife/wives of his teammates. That could have been and probably was a huge issue in the locker room. You never fuck your teammate's gal....and especially if you have your own desperate housewife at home.
Leonard’s block on Westbrick meant more

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

don't get me wrong. i love me some HOTS even though i went through periods of hating his fat porkly ass. but behind the hate there was always love.

but nut up fellas this is a binary poll. no "mmmhmm actually it's both" or "roger mathon jr" bullshit

[KobesAchilles]

Didn't Tony fuck his teammates wife?:lol
I mean that sucks for Brent Barry I guess but not for Tony. Erin was hot :lol

Look when a guy comes into a playoff game 1 with sun glasses, a beautiful actress on arm and a basketball in another, that just looked really damn cool to KA when I was younger. Meanwhile Manu lost his hair and his nut.

[Biggems]

Leonard’s block on Westbrick meant more

I didn't say most important, I said most iconic.

Jordan's dunk on Ewing wasn't his most important dunk, but it is probably his most iconic, especially in the post season.

[MultiTroll]

don't get me wrong. i love me some HOTS even though i went through periods of hating his fat porkly ass. but behind the hate there was always love.

but nut up fellas this is a binary poll. no "mmmhmm actually it's both" or "roger mathon jr" bullshit
Rodger that.

Manu

[Brazil]

At getting pussies Tony for sure :lol

[Brazil]

As for the poll, this is too damn vague, who ya got ? career ? peak ? international ? nba only ?

Taking all into account ? you have to pick Manu.. dat olympics gold medal is an insane achievement, his peak is better both on offense and defense...

Overall Tony and Manu were just perfect for Pop, Tim and the Spurs. Manu brought the out of the box mentality that Pop was lacking, Tony brought the consistency Tim needed, dat simple Tony / Tim PnR has been the bread and butter of Spurs offense for years.. Both had unique skills sets and signature moves.
Both are severely underrated, seeing a top 75 with 2 of the winningest trio of all time out left out is a disgrace.

[Brazil]

But I voted Tony.. for obvious reason

[Vince Carter's ankle]

his peak is better both on offense
Debatable.
Tony before the injury was the second best player after LeBron in the 2013 playoffs.

[Brazil]

Debatable.
Tony before the injury was the second best player after LeBron in the 2013 playoffs.

I believe, at their peak, the 3 pts shooting gives an extra mile to Manu... imho

[lefty]

But I voted Tony.. for obvious reason
Hey, country first, I can't blame you

[lefty]

I’m French but I’ll go for Manu on this.
Better French Spurs fan than Brazil :bobo
:D

[stnick2261]

I'm not sure I'd be able to choose. Parker would give you more minutes and completely run the offense... but in the last 2 minutes, I want the ball in Manu's hands

[Vince Carter's ankle]

1133131537514319872

[RC_Drunkford]

I‘m not participating in this stupid discussion

[Saitam]

Manu, without doubt. TP was benched on closed games til mid of his carrer as Spur

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

As for the poll, this is too damn vague, who ya got ? career ? peak ? international ? nba only ?

Taking all into account ? you have to pick Manu.. dat olympics gold medal is an insane achievement, his peak is better both on offense and defense...

Overall Tony and Manu were just perfect for Pop, Tim and the Spurs. Manu brought the out of the box mentality that Pop was lacking, Tony brought the consistency Tim needed, dat simple Tony / Tim PnR has been the bread and butter of Spurs offense for years.. Both had unique skills sets and signature moves.
Both are severely underrated, seeing a top 75 with 2 of the winningest trio of all time out left out is a disgrace.


But I voted Tony.. for obvious reason

that's the spirit. yeah it's a potentially complex question, etc etc

but at the end of the day (judgment day)

one question, two choices, one answer:

who ya got?

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

I‘m not participating in this stupid discussion

don't participate in the discussion

just answer the question

[TDMVPDPOY]

ENRIQUE quitted in the finals back 2 back years when mario chalmers gave him 2 peoples elbow, ,im glad no fkn spur came to help that chump up or did anything to chalmers

[Fireball]

Manu ... he always gave 100% when he was on the court which I can relate to.

[Brazil]

Better French Spurs fan than Brazil (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466) :bobo
:D

:lol he is a traitor tbh

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

:lol he is a traitor tbh

Vichy Spurs Fan tbh

[tmtcsc]

Manu, not even close.

[Brazil]

Vichy Spurs Fan tbh

Petiniste collabo !

[Drom John]

Manu, and it is close.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

40 to 5

don't cry for france, argentina

[R. DeMurre]

Manu had greater peaks and amazing moments...but Parker was consistently the engine that made this team go.

He was a top 5 PG in the NBA for like 10 years and still people don't give him his due because Duncan was a GOAT and Manu was flashy.

Duncan was #1 obviously...but Parker and Manu are 2A and 2B for different reasons, and I would argue that Parker carried more of the load as a starter and a scorer


The thing is, I think the idea of Manu being "wild" while Tony was "steady" is kinda overstated. For their careers, Parker averaged 2.7 TOs per 36 minutes and Manu averaged 2.8 TOs per 36 minutes, so it's not like there was a crazy discrepancy there. I love both players, but Manu's measurable effectiveness while on the floor was miles beyond Tony's. Honestly, I think Pop held Tony back by actively discouraging his three point game (he once joked that Tony would be fined for every 3 PT FGA), whereas Manu didn't have that hindrance. On D, there's really no comparison.


https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=parketo01&player_id2=ginobma01

[jjspur]

Its Manu by a mile. Manu's dunk on Chris Bosh in the 2014 finals will live forever in my mind. You just can't compete with an iconic moment like that. Its one for the ages. While Parker was a very very good player, an all star, It's still Manu for me. Parker was the starter, Manu was the finisher who thrust a dagger in the opponents heart.

[rascal]

Parker was more valuable to the Spurs.

[rascal]

The thing is, I think the idea of Manu being "wild" while Tony was "steady" is kinda overstated. For their careers, Parker averaged 2.7 TOs per 36 minutes and Manu averaged 2.8 TOs per 36 minutes, so it's not like there was a crazy discrepancy there. I love both players, but Manu's measurable effectiveness while on the floor was miles beyond Tony's. Honestly, I think Pop held Tony back by actively discouraging his three point game (he once joked that Tony would be fined for every 3 PT FGA), whereas Manu didn't have that hindrance. On D, there's really no comparison.


https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=parketo01&player_id2=ginobma01


Parker handled the ball more as the pg and had more assits so passed the ball more so more chances for turnovers.

[wildbill2u]

Its Manu by a mile. Manu's dunk on Chris Bosh in the 2014 finals will live forever in my mind. You just can't compete with an iconic moment like that. Its one for the ages. While Parker was a very very good player, an all star, It's still Manu for me. Parker was the starter, Manu was the finisher who thrust a dagger in the opponents heart.

I was at that game in the stands behing that basket. It's hard to describe the rush I got when Manu made that move through what seemed like the whole Miami team. I knew right then that the game was OVER. Manu wasn't going to let the Spurs lose.

It's a character trait in great atheletes known as "heart." It's also why Pop put the ball in Manu's hands at the end of close games as our "closer". His skill set became sharper when the game was on the line. HEART!

[R. DeMurre]

Parker handled the ball more as the pg and had more assits so passed the ball more so more chances for turnovers.

True, but Manu split time between being de facto PG (when Parker wasn't sharing the floor) and SG, so fewer chances for assists. I think he was still the better passer overall. My only point is that the TO difference between them isn't as large as some people might think. Someone like Magic Johnson averaged 3.8 TOs per 36 in his career, which is more than either of them, but no one would argue that he wasn't a great passer.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

2007 called and wants its thread back.

[spurraider21]

i voted for Manu because i feel his impact on the offense was more consistent. even old man manu would come off the bench, and then for the next 5-6 minutes seemingly every bucket would be him scoring, him getting the assist, or him getting the hockey assist because he generated the initial breakdown of the defense. his fingerprints seemed to be on every point we scored when he was in the game

...but closer than people think. the HOTS version Parker, or MVParker, was something else to watch. unparalleled stamina. watching him run that damn loop play every time down the court, constantly in full speed, having those amazing one man fastbreaks, over and over again, i'd get exhausted just watching. just as incredible seeing that in person. remember being at this game in particular, it came during parker's peak when he would regularly outplay CP3 in their head to head matchups


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrCdP3KPC70

[slick'81]

i voted for Manu because i feel his impact on the offense was more consistent. even old man manu would come off the bench, and then for the next 5-6 minutes seemingly every bucket would be him scoring, him getting the assist, or him getting the hockey assist because he generated the initial breakdown of the defense. his fingerprints seemed to be on every point we scored when he was in the game

...but closer than people think. the HOTS version Parker, or MVParker, was something else to watch. unparalleled stamina. watching him run that damn loop play every time down the court, constantly in full speed, having those amazing one man fastbreaks, over and over again, i'd get exhausted just watching. just as incredible seeing that in person. remember being at this game in particular, it came during parker's peak when he would regularly outplay CP3 in their head to head matchups


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrCdP3KPC70


constantly probing the paint and relentlessly attacking the rim. Not to mention a one man fast break. I always remember him dismantling gary payton

[jjspur]

I was at that game in the stands behing that basket. It's hard to describe the rush I got when Manu made that move through what seemed like the whole Miami team. I knew right then that the game was OVER. Manu wasn't going to let the Spurs lose.

It's a character trait in great atheletes known as "heart." It's also why Pop put the ball in Manu's hands at the end of close games as our "closer". His skill set became sharper when the game was on the line. HEART!

Can I have an Amen !

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

2007 called and wants its thread back.

Who ya got Ed?

[rascal]

PG play is more important to the team than 6th man.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

PG play is more important to the team than 6th man.
How did you manage the registration?

[lefty]

We all know Diaw is the GOAT French player so this thread is pointless tbh

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

We all know Diaw is the GOAT French player so this thread is pointless tbh

confirmed Manustan -- thanks for voting :toast

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Who ya got Ed?

Tough. To me you don’t really have one without the other. I don’t think I appreciated how good Tony was until looking back and see how much he added to the team. He was a top 3 point guard in his prime years.

That said, if it’s got to be one or the other, I probably have to go with Manu.

[mookie2001]

PG is a more important position. Anyone can go out there and dive face first into the ground and throw turnovers all over the court. But taking care of the ball seems to be more vital.












Btw OP is a little kid from 2005 who lives in Inez and hunts Crofl

[diego]

Tony has 6 playoff runs with 300+ FGA. His best run 12-13 with 432 points on 365 FGA, 68 rebounds 146 AST

Manu has one playoff run with 250+ FGA. His best run 04-05 with 479 points on 286 FGA, 133 Reb 97 ast

On top of that Manu has several more iconic moments, on both ends of the floor

Still tp deserves praise for how much he improved between 2005-2010, 2010s parker is a great great player

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

PG is a more important position. Anyone can go out there and dive face first into the ground and throw turnovers all over the court. But taking care of the ball seems to be more vital.












Btw OP is a little kid from 2005 who lives in Inez and hunts Crofl

nah nah nah that's ignorant

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I know Tony isn’t the easiest to like but in the NBA his numbers are better than Manu by a ton. His game wasn’t the flashiest, he could be hella surly, and the Berry sexting allegations definitely are a serious black eye but Parker was the better NBA player. The numbers, amount of games played, accolades prove this.

not the better man or fan favorite, but undoubtedly the better NBA career between Manu and himself

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

timvp what does Kori Ellis think?

[DAF86]

I know Tony isn’t the easiest to like but in the NBA his numbers are better than Manu by a ton. His game wasn’t the flashiest, he could be hella surly, and the Berry sexting allegations definitely are a serious black eye but Parker was the better NBA player. The numbers, amount of games played, accolades prove this.

not the better man or fan favorite, but undoubtedly the better NBA career between Manu and himself

Having the better numbers doesn't equal being the better player. The only reason Tony got the better numbers is senority. TP got to the Spurs earlier than Manu, that's why he got to be a starter all his career while Manu started from the bench, because Pop wanted to stagger their two ball playmakers as much as possible.

Same reason why Westbrook was a starter and got better numbers than Harden while in OKC, despite Harden being clearly the much better player.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

T Park you gonna come in here and stan for your boy or whottt?

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Having the better numbers doesn't equal being the better player. The only reason Tony got the better numbers is senority. TP got to the Spurs earlier than Manu, that's why he got to be a starter all his career while Manu started from the bench, because Pop wanted to stagger their two ball playmakers as much as possible.

Same reason why Westbrook was a starter and got better numbers than Harden while in OKC, despite Harden being clearly the much better player.

and yet ... you didn't vote

i guess you're still on the fence then :makemyday

[DAF86]

and yet ... you didn't vote

i guess you're still on the fence then :makemyday

Manu is better but both are criminally underated by the regular NBA fan. And what's worse, even some Spurs fans.

[Budkin]

Manu and it isn't close. Come on, man.

[diego]

This is a little masochistic but this thread made me remember the posts after the 13 finals, where parker fans especially raged at Manu for his poor performance, i remember saying we'll see parker when he's at Manus age.. Manu was a month away from 36 that series, his line for that series was:

11.6pts 2.1 Reb 4.3 ast .7 stl .560ts 101/112 o/drtg 6.7 gmSc 1.36 ast/to

Well it just so happens Tony's last playoff appearance came at exactly the same age, his line for that series was:

6.6 pts .8reb 1.2 ast .4 stl .412 TS 80/116 o/drtg 2.9 gmsc .96 ast/to

[KingKev]

This is a little masochistic but this thread made me remember the posts after the 13 finals, where parker fans especially raged at Manu for his poor performance, i remember saying we'll see parker when he's at Manus age.. Manu was a month away from 36 that series, his line for that series was:

11.6pts 2.1 Reb 4.3 ast .7 stl .560ts 101/112 o/drtg 6.7 gmSc 1.36 ast/to

Well it just so happens Tony's last playoff appearance came at exactly the same age, his line for that series was:

6.6 pts .8reb 1.2 ast .4 stl .412 TS 80/116 o/drtg 2.9 gmsc .96 ast/to

Lol your name is Diego. We already know who you are voting for.

[mookie2001]

Crofl

[Neo.]

manu without question

[T Park]

T Park you gonna come in here and stan for your boy or whottt?

Lol. I honestly cant choose between the two. Ginobili’s ultimate peak i dont think we’ll ever know cause of the injuries and role. Parker had a hell of a peak, he was the MVP of the finals in 13 until he yanked his hamstring and it fell apart the last two games.

One was great cause the other was great and vice versa. It was the rare moment IMO that both players were literal all time greats, because the other was an all time great.

[DAF86]

I know Tony isn’t the easiest to like but in the NBA his numbers are better than Manu by a ton. His game wasn’t the flashiest, he could be hella surly, and the Berry sexting allegations definitely are a serious black eye but Parker was the better NBA player. The numbers, amount of games played, accolades prove this.

not the better man or fan favorite, but undoubtedly the better NBA career between Manu and himself

But we aren't arguing who the had the better numbers, we are arguing who was the better player.

Also, what numbers, raw stats? Sure, Tony had more. Advanced impact stats? Manu clearly better.

[SupremeGuy]

Manu, and it's not even close tbh.

[exstatic]

I know Tony isn’t the easiest to like but in the NBA his numbers are better than Manu by a ton. His game wasn’t the flashiest, he could be hella surly, and the Berry sexting allegations definitely are a serious black eye but Parker was the better NBA player. The numbers, amount of games played, accolades prove this.

not the better man or fan favorite, but undoubtedly the better NBA career between Manu and himself

Tony started at 19, and accumulated 111.3 win shares in 18 seasons. Manu started at 25, and accumulated 106.4 WSs in 16 seasons. It’s not the gap you think it is, and if Manu would have even come over at 22, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

[rascal]

Parker Parker was the starting pg and held more value to the team.

[timvp]

Parker would never lose to Saudi Arabia, tbh.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Parker Parker was the starting pg and held more value to the team.
Fabricio Oberto was the starting center, so he also held more value to the team.

[cd98]

Bigger question: would Pop in 2022 be able to coach/handle Dennis Rodman of 1993-1995? Pop was a military man and ran the Spurs that way as GM and later coach when he first started. It seems like he's gone a very different path over the last 10 years. So do you think he could coach Rodman assuming we had a playoff team? Do you think Rodman would respect him? I mean, Rodman did some dumb things that were anti-winning. I can see Pop tolerating more eccentric behavior, but flat out doing things that lose games, I would say probably not.

[Ariel]

Parker would never lose to Saudi Arabia, tbh.
Neither would Manu, tbh.

He led an Argentina basketball team with comparatively far less talent than their football counterparts, to much greater success. Parker wasn't able to do the same thing for France, and he wouldn't have for Argentina either. He might have put up better stats (partly due to his role and style and Manu's career management), but if I have to build a team with winning in mind and you tell me to pick one of them, it's Manu by a landslide. No disrespect to TP.

[MI21]

I have to question the judgement of any Spurs fan old enough to appreciate their NBA entire careers who thinks this isn't a close call either way, tbh.

If we are including international resume, it's Manu, of course.

[Ariel]

Parker Parker was the starting pg and held more value to the team.
Manu could out dunk the h3ll out of TP, though. Going by your latest bazillion posts, you'd think that'd be enough to put him over the top.

[timvp]

I have to question the judgement of any Spurs fan old enough to appreciate their NBA entire careers who thinks this isn't a close call either way, tbh.

Yeah, this is the correct answer. You can make a case for either player depending on your particular bias. Of course, San Antonians are going to vote for the guy from a Spanish speaking country so polling the fans doesn't accomplish much, tbh.

Personally, I simply appreciate them both. They're both Spurs legends so what's the point of picking and choosing? It's like spending time trying to figure out which of your kids you like best.

I've noticed that fans from the pre-Duncan era rarely engage in the debate because it's so senseless. Those of us who grew up being forced to view an Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro backcourt as being a relatively strong backcourt can't even dream of doing anything but appreciate what Parker and Ginobili brought to the table. I mean, damn, if Robinson had anyone close to as good as Parker or Ginobili, the Spurs easily win the championship in 1995.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I consider myself Manu's biggest fan but timvp is right. The Spurs are incredibly lucky to have had Manu and TP in the same team during Duncan's prime. Manu was brilliant and a game changer with high efficiency in limited minutes that allowed him to prolong his career while TP was a steady second option who graduated to first option briefly between 2010-13. If not for TP, the Spurs wouldn't have made all those playoffs or had lengthy playoff runs while Duncan was ageing or Manu was injured. Damn, TP is so underrated in this forum after his retirement. I hope folks get to appreciate him again when he makes his HoF entry next season with Manu and Tim in tow as sponsors.

[John B]

Yeah, this is the correct answer. You can make a case for either player depending on your particular bias. Of course, San Antonians are going to vote for the guy from a Spanish speaking country so polling the fans doesn't accomplish much, tbh.

Personally, I simply appreciate them both. They're both Spurs legends so what's the point of picking and choosing? It's like spending time trying to figure out which of your kids you like best.

I've noticed that fans from the pre-Duncan era rarely engage in the debate because it's so senseless. Those of us who grew up being forced to view an Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro backcourt as being a relatively strong backcourt can't even dream of doing anything but appreciate what Parker and Ginobili brought to the table. I mean, damn, if Robinson had anyone close to as good as Parker or Ginobili, the Spurs easily win the championship in 1995.

I love Manu (my all-time favorite player) and Tony is a helluva competitive guy. And I know both would’ve been All-Star players, Manu could’ve scored more. BUT don’t you think Timmy had a lot to do with also? I could argue that a decent player would elevate his game playing alongside Duncan (similar to Jordan, I can’t say about Kobe for some reason, he needed a Gasol to get back). Dragic, Barbosa? Scola would’ve been a Spurs fan favorite and probably an All-Star.

But going back to the topic. All 3 have different place in my heart as a basketball fan. Manu is my favorite because he was the epitome of unselfish player, big sacrifice. As many will agree, Timmy is the greatest Spur ever, but Manu is the most beloved. His baseline passes, bending in air from one corner to another, I don’t see anybody else do. Euro-Step is Manu, I’m sorry Marciliunis. Next is Timmy for obvious reason, then Parker. Parker was a blur, one-man fastbreak, fearless and at one point led the league in field goal percentage, and a Guard? His teardrops were lethal and his spin moves were sick, one of the best finisher under the rim, just contours his body to get in. Then DRob. Sadly while David was ahead of his time with his guard skills at 7’1, to me he was toooooo nice. Timmy doesn’t speak much, but he’ll bury you when your already down. DRob? Maybe because he was too “smart?” He said himself basketball wasn’t everything, he likes playing with sax, reading. But still I love DRob. His rookie season was the reason I became a Spurs fan after that 26 wins the previous season and me forced to watch the Spurs having to have moved in San Anton. I was Showtime Lakers fan growing up with my brother, and my sisters liked the Celtics because they thought Ainge was cute :lmao.

Anyways, Manu for me. Oh, that Gold Medal was something else too. :bobo