Let's Settle It...95 Rockets vs. Jordan's Bulls...who you got.

[benefactor]

Alright old heads, lets settle it. Bring your arguments. I'll stand my ground until the end of time.

The 94-95 Rockets would have murked the the Bulls if Jordan would have stayed in the league and they went to the Finals against each other. They beat two 60 win teams and swept Penny and Shaq in the Finals. Hakeem did work...33ppg, 10reb, 4.5ast and 3blks. Who is gonna stop him on the Bulls? Rockets in five.

[FrostKing]

Tough debate because this is 2nd season after MJ's retirement. What occurs in '94 is a big element in the equation. But on face value sure I would assume the Bulls would be all but outta gas trying to win a 5th straight. I'm not sure what the Bulls roster would look like either.

[baseline bum]

Yeah the thought of Kukoc, Longley, Perdue, and Bill Wennington guarding 95 Olajuwon is laughable. Especially with how much Jordan hated Kukoc and would have tried to freeze him out as a rookie. I can't see how anyone could take the Bulls in that matchup minus Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright. Bulls had lockdown perimeter defenders in Harper and Pippen but Olajuwon would probably drop 50 a night on that frontcourt in a Finals matchup unless they just decided hell with it, throw 2-3 guys on Olajuwon at all times and let Cassell, Horry, Drexler, Elie, and Smith just bomb threes all night and hope they miss. Not sure if I'd take Houston in 5 or 6 though.

[benefactor]

Yeah the thought of Kukoc, Longley, Perdue, and Bill Wennington guarding 95 Olajuwon is laughable. Especially with how much Jordan hated Kukoc and would have tried to freeze him out as a rookie. I can't see how anyone could take the Bulls in that matchup minus Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright. Bulls had lockdown perimeter defenders in Harper and Pippen but Olajuwon would probably drop 50 a night on that frontcourt in a Finals matchup unless they just decided hell with it, throw 2-3 guys on Olajuwon at all times and let Cassell, Horry, Drexler, Elie, and Smith just bomb threes all night and hope they miss. Not sure if I'd take Houston in 5 or 6 though.
Houston wins that series bro. Dream wins a finals MVP just regulating the Bulls inside. And he gets just enough 3pt shooting to create the balance. Houston's team defense was straight work too. They win in five or six

[benefactor]

Tough debate because this is 2nd season after MJ's retirement. What occurs in '94 is a big element in the equation. But on face value sure I would assume the Bulls would be all but outta gas trying to win a 5th straight. I'm not sure what the Bulls roster would look like either.
The thing is Dream was at his absolute peak. No one could handle him in the playoffs. What are the Bulls going to do to contain him?

[benefactor]

Olajuwon would have left Jordan in his shadow in that series. We all would have seen why he's the most skilled big man ever to pick up a basketball

[Neo.]

yep houston wins both years imo

[FrostKing]

My question - if Houston was so dominant then why so many elimination games?

Half their series went the distance. One could argue they were possibly some of the luckiest winners ever.

[baseline bum]

yep houston wins both years imo

94 is a much tougher matchup for Houston. At least the Bulls would still have Grant and Cartwright to throw on Olajuwon and Vernon Maxwell at the 2 is a far cry from Drexler, though the Bulls wouldn't have Ron Harper yet. They would have Kukoc though, I was wrong saying 94-95 was his rookie year, turns out it was 93-94. That 94 Rockets team could also go on massive offensive slumps, reminds me a lot of the 03 Spurs. Not sure you could survive that against Jordan. Think I might take Chicago in 7 in that matchup. You could get away with loading up on Hakeem defensively a lot more in 94 than you could with Drexler there in 95.

[lefty]

Rockeys
94 and 95 easily

Heck even the 93 Rockets

[Robz4000]

Rockets stomp in 95, toss up in 94 imo.

[benefactor]

Rockets stomp in 95, toss up in 94 imo.
Agreed tbh. I can't be quite as sure about that 94 team, but that 95 team could beat most finals teams in NBA history. Drexler changed everything. They were a six seed that beat two 60 win teams and handled a really good Orlando team.

[Robz4000]

Agreed tbh. I can't be quite as sure about that 94 team, but that 95 team could beat most finals teams in NBA history. Drexler changed everything. They were a six seed that beat two 60 win teams and handled a really good Orlando team.

Wouldn't go as far as to say they'd beat most Finals teams, but they were a bad match up for that Bulls team. As you said, they have literally no one to throw at Hakeem.

[benefactor]

Wouldn't go as far as to say they'd beat most Finals teams, but they were a bad match up for that Bulls team. As you said, they have literally no one to throw at Hakeem.
I could put them top ten. I don't think they could have beaten the Spurs in 99 or 14. I think they probably could have beaten the Kobe/Shaq Lakers most of those years. Dream would have put Shaq in the blender and would have contained him on defense. The Lakers didn't have good enough perimeter defenders to handle all the Rockets shooters. They had four guys shooting 40% or better from distance during that run.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Maybe 95, maybe…

[ambchang]

Bulls in 7. Hakeem would soMehow average 7.5 fouls a game.

[JamStone]

94 is a much tougher matchup for Houston. At least the Bulls would still have Grant and Cartwright to throw on Olajuwon and Vernon Maxwell at the 2 is a far cry from Drexler, though the Bulls wouldn't have Ron Harper yet. They would have Kukoc though, I was wrong saying 94-95 was his rookie year, turns out it was 93-94. That 94 Rockets team could also go on massive offensive slumps, reminds me a lot of the 03 Spurs. Not sure you could survive that against Jordan. Think I might take Chicago in 7 in that matchup. You could get away with loading up on Hakeem defensively a lot more in 94 than you could with Drexler there in 95.

Agree. 95 a huge difference from 94 for both teams. Drexler brought not only another 20 point scorer to the Rockets but a different offensive dynamic to the team from the other secondary players, who were mostly just jumpshooters. And the Bulls post Grant but pre Rodman didn’t have quite the depth of talent they enjoyed during either threepeat.

Michael was of course still a force. But in 95, on paper the Rockets would seem to have a clear advantage of overall team talent.

[lefty]

Rockets stomp in 95, toss up in 94 imo.
Not a toss up in 94 imo, the Rockets were just a matchup nightmare for Chicago

[lefty]

Bulls in 7. Hakeem would soMehow average 7.5 fouls a game.

What do you mean?


https://c.tenor.com/yfcVp5GdMVwAAAAM/choke-choking.gif

[Neo.]

Not a toss up in 94 imo, the Rockets were just a matchup nightmare for Chicago

yeah i feel the matchup is tougher (for the rockets) in 94 than 95, but the rockets matchup problems were definitely an issue.

also the mental aspect. winning 3 in a row was difficult enough and you could already see burnout settling in, compared to a hungry team that hadn't won it all yet. add in the fact that the bulls would no longer be the more talented team by miles (compared to all of their previous opponents they had faced, some of whom they still struggled against), and id say all of that gives the rockets the overall edge in the matchup.

[baseline bum]

Not a toss up in 94 imo, the Rockets were just a matchup nightmare for Chicago

94 Rockets you could throw everything you had into stopping Olajuwon and the Rockets offense would go hot/cold depending on whether the shooters were hitting their open looks. Ewing had an absolutely horrible Finals and yet the Knicks were still one John Starks shot from winning the title over them.

[KobesAchilles]

Bulls over 94 Rockets pretty easily but 95 Rockets over the Bulls pretty easily too.

[FrostKing]

I could put them top ten. I don't think they could have beaten the Spurs in 99 or 14. I think they probably could have beaten the Kobe/Shaq Lakers most of those years. Dream would have put Shaq in the blender and would have contained him on defense. The Lakers didn't have good enough perimeter defenders to handle all the Rockets shooters. They had four guys shooting 40% or better from distance during that run.
Judging by boxscores of their Playoff series

Opposing Point Guards had a field day. Probably why the Finale against the Magic was so shocking and might overrate this Rockets team. A combo of Penny & Shaq should have done much better.

Another interesting aspect about that Rockets run is how much they struggled in early rounds as opposed to later in the Playoffs.

1993: again 2 series to the Max. Sonics prevail in 2nd Round
1996: 0-4 to the Sonics in the 2nd Round

Those teams have short shelf lives and lived on the edge allowing series to go to the limit. It's not unlikely that the ultimate clutch and elimination game killer would have taken them out.

[lefty]

94 Rockets you could throw everything you had into stopping Olajuwon and the Rockets offense would go hot/cold depending on whether the shooters were hitting their open looks. Ewing had an absolutely horrible Finals and yet the Knicks were still one John Starks shot from winning the title over them.
93 Rockets owned the Buls by the way tbh

As for being hot/cold, it was the same for the Bulls

They even struggled to score in the 4th quarter in game 6 vs the Suns, a team known for its shit defense, whereas Rockets were a top defensive team

[FrostKing]

MJ owned Drexler

Pax/Armstrong vs Kenny is a wash

Pippen vs diaper Horry

Double Hakeem



I see it now. Bulls double downlow. MJ strips Hakeem. Game winner. Rockets struggle to close out opponents and Mr.Jordan just did it.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

houston in 6 both years

[Killakobe81]

yeah i feel the matchup is tougher (for the rockets) in 94 than 95, but the rockets matchup problems were definitely an issue.

also the mental aspect. winning 3 in a row was difficult enough and you could already see burnout settling in, compared to a hungry team that hadn't won it all yet. add in the fact that the bulls would no longer be the more talented team by miles (compared to all of their previous opponents they had faced, some of whom they still struggled against), and id say all of that gives the rockets the overall edge in the matchup.

Burnout more than lack of talent is why o never bought the MJ Bulls could have win 8 straight narratives

[FrostKing]

'94 Pippen MVP candidate + Jordan

Is arguably greatest Duo ever

[140]

It's pretty simple tbh, MJ just won't lose in the finals. Just the way he's wired I guess.

[lefty]

It's pretty simple tbh, MJ just won't lose in the finals. Just the way he's wired I guess.
It's hard to lose against shitty Finals oopponents tbh

[Neo.]

It's hard to lose against shitty Finals oopponents tbh

dont fall for the obvious troll job. no one can be stupid enough to actually believe what he wrote.








actually, nvm

[FrostKing]

It's hard to lose against shitty Finals oopponents tbh
91 Lakers swept Hakeem

Kemp's Sonics eliminated Hakeem twice including a sweep

97 Jazz eliminated Hakeem

98 Jazz eliminated Hakeem

[lefty]

91 Lakers swept Hakeem

Kemp's Sonics eliminated Hakeem twice including a sweep

97 Jazz eliminated Hakeem

98 Jazz eliminated Hakeem
Great logic
Will share with Skip and SAS

[FrostKing]

Great logic
Will share with Skip and SAS
:lol

FS1 ruined "Speak for Yourself"

[Dirks_Finale]

Horace Grant was 15/11 for Chicago the previous season. I think he even made the all star team.

If he is on that 95 Bulls team(he stays if MJ stays imo) then they beat the Rockets in 7.

Would have been toughest Final's opponent for Chicago because of their matchup issues with them. But they still pull it out. Phil let's Dream get 40 and clamps down on everyone else. Series.

[ambchang]

Horace Grant was 15/11 for Chicago the previous season. I think he even made the all star team.

If he is on that 95 Bulls team(he stays if MJ stays imo) then they beat the Rockets in 7.

Would have been toughest Final's opponent for Chicago because of their matchup issues with them. But they still pull it out. Phil let's Dream get 40 and clamps down on everyone else. Series.

Grant hated jordan. Jordan was the primary reason he left the bulls and he was ecstatic when they beat the bulls in 95.

[Dirks_Finale]

Grant hated jordan. Jordan was the primary reason he left the bulls and he was ecstatic when they beat the bulls in 95.

True, but like Pippen, he liked winning.

[baseline bum]

True, but like Pippen, he liked winning.

Nah he really fucking hated Jordan and wanted out. No way he was ever turning down the chance to go play with Shaq and Penny.

[lefty]

I thought Grant left for more money

[FrostKing]

Horace wins 5 straight Rings and he's probably in the NBA Hall of Fame. Even he would recognize the value in staying with MJ.

[benefactor]

:lol HomerKing. That Bulls team had no chance against the 95 Rockets. Dream would have shown his ass...scoring, kick outs, defense...there was no answer. Double teams? lmao. Come on man.

[ambchang]

True, but like Pippen, he liked winning.

Jordan needed grant and Pippen as well. Pippen is obvious, but grant was instrumental in holding the paint on defense and he that rebounder for the bulls in the first three peat. Jordan’s failure to understand that helps explain why he’s been such a terrible GM.


I thought Grant left for more money

That’s part of it, but grant hated jordan for the continuous disrespect and the lie of him being a source for the jordan rules. Grant also wanted to have a bigger role on offense. I remembered reading an article back in the day how Harvey grant wanted to win and Horace grant wanted a bigger role like Harvey with the bullets.

But jordan rubbed a lot of his teammates the wrong way, he wouldn’t have won anything if phil Jackson didn’t help turn their collective animosity towards the GM and have at least some form of cohesiveness.



Horace wins 5 straight Rings and he's probably in the NBA Hall of Fame. Even he would recognize the value in staying with MJ.

This is a pretty bad take. Grant had enough of jordan at that point. Pippen was able to get some level of respect from jordan (or so he thought) but everybody else was routinely disrespected by jordan. People always try to stretch that jordan was the leader of those bulls but Pippen and Jackson did way more than jordan. Jordan was actively documented to cause all types of unnecessarily friction in the locker room. He also had penis envy on Pippen because of Madonna.

[FrostKing]

Putting aside the debate of what Horace would have done. Let's all agree his decision to leave Chicago was a terrible one in hindsight. Went from center piece of one of American sports greatest dynasties to barely remembered "that guy with the goggles". Truly sad for someone that endured the difficult foundation building phase.

Pippen stuck it out and will forever be arguably overrated in History's eyes.

[ambchang]

Putting aside the debate of what Horace would have done. Let's all agree his decision to leave Chicago was a terrible one in hindsight. Went from center piece of one of American sports greatest dynasties to barely remembered "that guy with the goggles". Truly sad for someone that endured the difficult foundation building phase.

Pippen stuck it out and will forever be arguably overrated in History's eyes.

Not sure why that is the case. Pippen is about one of the most underrated players in NBA history. The guy has alpha talent in a beta mindset, and yet he will forever be rated as a beta talent with a beta mindset. Grant got his four rings, he got more All-NBA team votes in Orlando than he got in Chicago, he continued to get all-D second team in Orlando, he's happier (according to himself), and most importantly, he got paid. He made $41.8M in 5 seasons with the Magic, compared to $7.48 in 6 seasons with the Bulls. In fact, his highest paid season in Orlando is TWICE his total pay with the Bulls. He was routinely underappreciated by the Bulls (especially Jordan) and he was right.

For someone who is supposed to be a Bulls fan, I am shocked at how little you know about your team.

[Arcadian]

:lol Nothing is getting "settled" in this thread.

[DMC]

The thing is Dream was at his absolute peak. No one could handle him in the playoffs. What are the Bulls going to do to contain him?

Nothing, take it to everyone else on the other end.

[FrostKing]

Not sure why that is the case. Pippen is about one of the most underrated players in NBA history. The guy has alpha talent in a beta mindset, and yet he will forever be rated as a beta talent with a beta mindset. Grant got his four rings, he got more All-NBA team votes in Orlando than he got in Chicago, he continued to get all-D second team in Orlando, he's happier (according to himself), and most importantly, he got paid. He made $41.8M in 5 seasons with the Magic, compared to $7.48 in 6 seasons with the Bulls. In fact, his highest paid season in Orlando is TWICE his total pay with the Bulls. He was routinely underappreciated by the Bulls (especially Jordan) and he was right.

For someone who is supposed to be a Bulls fan, I am shocked at how little you know about your team.
Horace didn't receive a significant pay raise to leave Chicago. Bringing his rookie contract into the conversation is pointless.

https://i.ibb.co/vPQWqNG/Screenshot-20220817-160647-Chrome.jpg

It wasn't until Grant RESIGNED with Orlando that he was paid. And by then the Bulls were on Ring #2 without him

Grant left Chicago before MJ returned. His decision had nothing to do with Jordan. He left because Phil didn't see him as an offensive weapon just a rebounder.

Grant gambled that he was joining the next Dynasty and instead his former home turned into one! What a blunder on his part.

Bulls clearly won this exchange. Horace let his ego defeat him and he probably lost a chance at the Hall of Fame because of it.

Bottomline: 1 career All Star game and it was in Chicago

[ambchang]

Horace didn't receive a significant pay raise to leave Chicago. Bringing his rookie contract into the conversation is pointless.

https://i.ibb.co/vPQWqNG/Screenshot-20220817-160647-Chrome.jpg

It wasn't until Grant RESIGNED with Orlando that he was paid. And by then the Bulls were on Ring #2 without him

You said it was the wrong move, I came in a showed that he made much more money in Orlando, it is the right move. By the time Grant was making $14M a year, the Bulls were paying $30M a year to Jordan and there is nothing left for anyone. There was no way Grant would have made $14M a year with the Bulls if he stayed, and it won't even be particularly close to it.


Grant left Chicago before MJ returned. His decision had nothing to do with Jordan. He left because Phil didn't see him as an offensive weapon just a rebounder.

Him not getting touches is also true, but Grant has said multiple times how he hated Jordan and how Jordan paid no respect to anyone on the team. Grant had a deep hatred for the Bulls and Jordan was a huge reason why. Funny he had pretty much the same number of shots in the Magic compared to when he was with the Bulls, yet he was much happier, wonder why.


Grant gambled that he was joining the next Dynasty and instead his former home turned into one! What a blunder on his part.

What blunder? He got 4 rings. You see Pippen getting love? He got routinely underrated. The only people who got their credit with those Bulls teams were Jordan and Jackson. You think people will remember Grant if he stayed with the Bulls? Most people don't even remember Rodman and the only reason they remembered him is because of how crazy he is. You think anybody remembered John Paxson, and Cliff Levingston? Even guys like Ron Harper who were a huge part of the 2nd 3 peat?


Bulls clearly won this exchange. Horace let his ego defeat him and he probably lost a chance at the Hall of Fame because of it.

Bottomline: 1 career All Star game and it was in Chicago

Grant will get into the Hall of Fame if he stayed with the Bulls? You name me another 12/8 player who made the HoF after the 70s. Anyone. Robert Horry won SEVEN rings, you see him in the Hall? John Salley? James Edwards? None of them made it. Horace Grant would have made the HoF if he stayed with the Bulls is about the most ludicrous thing I have heard. Why didn't Steve Kerr make it as a player? He got 3 rings with the Bulls and two more with the Spurs. You see him in the Hall?

[Dirks_Finale]

You said it was the wrong move, I came in a showed that he made much more money in Orlando, it is the right move. By the time Grant was making $14M a year, the Bulls were paying $30M a year to Jordan and there is nothing left for anyone. There was no way Grant would have made $14M a year with the Bulls if he stayed, and it won't even be particularly close to it.



Him not getting touches is also true, but Grant has said multiple times how he hated Jordan and how Jordan paid no respect to anyone on the team. Grant had a deep hatred for the Bulls and Jordan was a huge reason why. Funny he had pretty much the same number of shots in the Magic compared to when he was with the Bulls, yet he was much happier, wonder why.



What blunder? He got 4 rings. You see Pippen getting love? He got routinely underrated. The only people who got their credit with those Bulls teams were Jordan and Jackson. You think people will remember Grant if he stayed with the Bulls? Most people don't even remember Rodman and the only reason they remembered him is because of how crazy he is. You think anybody remembered John Paxson, and Cliff Levingston? Even guys like Ron Harper who were a huge part of the 2nd 3 peat?



Grant will get into the Hall of Fame if he stayed with the Bulls? You name me another 12/8 player who made the HoF after the 70s. Anyone. Robert Horry won SEVEN rings, you see him in the Hall? John Salley? James Edwards? None of them made it. Horace Grant would have made the HoF if he stayed with the Bulls is about the most ludicrous thing I have heard. Why didn't Steve Kerr make it as a player? He got 3 rings with the Bulls and two more with the Spurs. You see him in the Hall?


I'm with you on some of this, but come on now...Harp was a washout by the time he went to Chicago. 3-D without the 3 :lol

[Monostradamus]

In 94 the Bulls might not even get to the Finals, people forget how good that Knicks team was. They were a game away even with Ewing pulling the ultimate chokejob.

[benefactor]

:lol Nothing is getting "settled" in this thread.
Well it was worth a shot:lol

[baseline bum]

I'm with you on some of this, but come on now...Harp was a washout by the time he went to Chicago. 3-D without the 3 :lol

Ron Harper was 31 and coming off a 20 ppg season when he joined the Bulls.

[baseline bum]

In 94 the Bulls might not even get to the Finals, people forget how good that Knicks team was. They were a game away even with Ewing pulling the ultimate chokejob.

Game away? They were a shot away. Starks was red hot in Game 6 and if Olajuwon hadn't recovered and tipped that it was going down and Knicks win.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3-64I6zp7k

[lefty]

Game away? They were a shot away. Starks was red hot in Game 6 and if Olajuwon hadn't recovered and tipped that it was going down and Knicks win.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3-64I6zp7k
To this day I don't understand why Riley didn't run the pick and roll with Oakley instead of Ewing, I don't think Thorpe would have gotten that

Unless the play was initially to pass it to Ewing after the pick and roll but they didn't get the space they wanted and Starks had to take the shot ........But I doubt that, Grocery Bagger was on fire so I'm guessing Riley went with the hot hand

Good thing for Houston Hakeem was able to block it, IMO Grocery Bagger would have made that shot

[Dirks_Finale]

Ron Harper was 31 and coming off a 20 ppg season when he joined the Bulls.

The 94-95 Bulls stunk most of the year. If Harper were that same guy, he would have averaged in that 20ppg neighborhood if he were the same player. Instead he scored 6.9 ppg on .426 shooting. He had slowed down and was reinventing himself before MJ made his return later that year.

[baseline bum]

The 94-95 Bulls stunk most of the year. If Harper were that same guy, he would have averaged in that 20ppg neighborhood if he were the same player. Instead he scored 6.9 ppg on .426 shooting. He had slowed down and was reinventing himself before MJ made his return later that year.

Phil Jackson had Harper take a lesser role because they figured they had a star in their hands in BJ Armstrong. Dude even made the AS team the year before. :lol

[Neo.]

Phil Jackson had Harper take a lesser role because they figured they had a star in their hands in BJ Armstrong. Dude even made the AS team the year before. :lol

apparently someone here doesnt understand how systems, teammates and roles can massively change someones statistical output :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

Phil Jackson had Harper take a lesser role because they figured they had a star in their hands in BJ Armstrong. Dude even made the AS team the year before. :lol

You said star and BJ Armstrong in the same sentence :lol

Maybe you were thinking of Kukoc?

[Dirks_Finale]

The 94-95 Bulls were 2nd in Defensive rating but only 12th in scoring that year.. they had scrubs/spot starters like Will Perdue, Larry Krysktowiak and Pete Myers on that team. Yes, they needed more scoring. :lol

[ambchang]

Harper was pulled in as a perimeter defender and facilitator. He suffered no major injuries and was on record to say that he didn’t get the bulls system, especially his first year. As a result his minutes were slashed and this he would score a whole lot less. He was also on record saying that he figured out a different way to contribute by being a defender and facilitator on offense later (sort of like a Pippen lite). So no, he wasn’t washed up. He just had a different role on a different team. Like how Kenny smith went from a 20ppg scorer on the kings to a 13ppg shooter with the rockets or how Avery Johnson went from being cut twice by the rockets as a third string guard to one of the best PG the spurs ever had.

[lefty]

The Bulls got Harper because they needed a bigger backcourt, to better match up with Orlando’s

Harpee didn’t need to score 20 ppg because they had other other scorers on the team

In the 98-99 season, so after MJ and Pippen left , he scored 25 pts in the 2nd half on the road vs Miami

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1999/05/02/bulls-drop-a-shocker-on-heat/40028aea-9cd5-45a9-ab53-641cebcbc871/

[Dirks_Finale]

The Bulls got Harper because they needed a bigger backcourt, to better match up with Orlando’s

Harpee didn’t need to score 20 ppg because they had other other scorers on the team

In the 98-99 season, so after MJ and Pippen left , he scored 25 pts in the 2nd half on the road vs Miami

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1999/05/02/bulls-drop-a-shocker-on-heat/40028aea-9cd5-45a9-ab53-641cebcbc871/

Anecdotes :lol He avg 11 ppg on 38% shooting that year.

[Dirks_Finale]

Harper was pulled in as a perimeter defender and facilitator. He suffered no major injuries and was on record to say that he didn’t get the bulls system, especially his first year. As a result his minutes were slashed and this he would score a whole lot less. He was also on record saying that he figured out a different way to contribute by being a defender and facilitator on offense later (sort of like a Pippen lite). So no, he wasn’t washed up. He just had a different role on a different team. Like how Kenny smith went from a 20ppg scorer on the kings to a 13ppg shooter with the rockets or how Avery Johnson went from being cut twice by the rockets as a third string guard to one of the best PG the spurs ever had.

I guess he had to say something to defend himself :lol

Realistically, with MJ, Pip and Grant, they could have just plugged in a plethora of players to give them what Harper gave them.

Not saying he was terrible, just not the same guy from year's past. Sometimes these guys just suddenly hit a wall after 30. (see Josh Howard)

[lefty]

Anecdotes :lol He avg 11 ppg on 38% shooting that year.
Harper was also playing with an injury for a good part of that season

[baseline bum]

You said star and BJ Armstrong in the same sentence :lol

Maybe you were thinking of Kukoc?

https://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Air-Jordan-9-BJ-Armstrong-All-Star-Game-PE-03.jpg

[lefty]

The Bulls were the most stacked team of the 90s but Jordan fans want us to believe he played with scrubs, smh :lol

They may not look stacked compared to the great 80s teams, but they were when you look at their competition, it just shows how shitty the talent pool was in the diluted 90s

[Dirks_Finale]

https://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Air-Jordan-9-BJ-Armstrong-All-Star-Game-PE-03.jpg


Devin Harris also made 1 all star team :lol

[Dirks_Finale]

...

[Dirks_Finale]

The Bulls were the most stacked team of the 90s but Jordan fans want us to believe he played with scrubs, smh :lol

They may not look stacked compared to the great 80s teams, but they were when you look at their competition, it just shows how shitty the talent pool was in the diluted 90s

Not so.

But you guys want us to believe his comp was all plumbers and accountants :lol

That Knick team was pretty good collectively, imo.

That 96 Seattle team won like 64 games and was as balanced as they come.

In 91 all you people were picking the Lakers to oust the inexperienced Bulls. Then when they get tossed up, it's... well Magic had full blown aids and was old and stuff. :lol

[lefty]

Not so.

But you guys want us to believe his comp was all plumbers and accountants :lol

That Knick team was pretty good collectively, imo.

That 96 Seattle team won like 64 games and was as balanced as they come.

In 91:lol all you people were picking the Lakers to oust the inexperienced Bulls. Then when they get tossed up, it's... well Magic had full blown aids and was old and stuff.
My bad, I forgot to mention the NBA also had milkmen and circus midgets

:lol Nobody with more than 2 brain cells picked the Lakers, only the clowns who were still stuck in the 80s; the 91 Lakers were not even the favorites to beat the Blazers in the WCF, but Portland being Portland, they found a way to choke


The Sonics were missing McMillan for a couple of games in the Finals, leaving Payton as their sole ball handler against the Bulls press and perimeter defender.
Also , that dumbass George Karl waited too long to put Payton on Jordan

[Dirks_Finale]

My bad, I forgot to mention the NBA also had milkmen and circus midgets

:lol Nobody with more than 2 brain cells picked the Lakers, only the clowns who were still stuck in the 80s; the 91 Lakers were not even the favorites to beat the Blazers in the WCF, but Portland being Portland, they found a way to choke


The Sonics were missing McMillan for a couple of games in the Finals, leaving Payton as their sole ball handler against the Bulls press and perimeter defender.
Also , that dumbass George Karl waited too long to put Payton on Jordan

Scroll to about 6:30. This was the sentiment by the so called experts at that time. You are right, Portland was favored, but when LA won they said it was LA>CHI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9WB5fAoisg&t=389s

[baseline bum]

Scroll to about 6:30. This was the sentiment by the so called experts at that time. You are right, Portland was favored, but when LA won they said it was LA>CHI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9WB5fAoisg&t=389s

Old people fucking hated Jordan back then, thought he was just a ballhog and couldn't win the big game. Everyone under 30 knew Jordan was set to tear the rest of the league up.

[ambchang]

I guess he had to say something to defend himself :lol

Realistically, with MJ, Pip and Grant, they could have just plugged in a plethora of players to give them what Harper gave them.

Not saying he was terrible, just not the same guy from year's past. Sometimes these guys just suddenly hit a wall after 30. (see Josh Howard)

Who would ever say they are too dumb to pick up a system to defend themselves? It’s much easier to say he was done at that point to preserve his own reputation as a dynamic scorer with the clippers and cavs.

Harper wasn’t a unique talent, nobody argued that, but he was still very important to the team.

As for Howard, it has more to do with his pot problems and him being public enemy number one after joking around during the national anthem than anything else.

[Jeremy]

The Bulls might not have had much at the center position, but they still destroyed Mourning, Ewing, and Shaq in 3 series in a row in the 1996 playoffs.

[lefty]

Old people fucking hated Jordan back then, thought he was just a ballhog and couldn't win the big game. Everyone under 30 knew Jordan was set to tear the rest of the league up.

He was a ballhogging loser until Krause, Phil and Scottie came along

[lefty]

The Bulls might not have had much at the center position, but they still destroyed Mourning, Ewing, and Shaq in 3 series in a row in the 1996 playoffs.

That’s because their teams had janitors at the SG position

[baseline bum]

He was a ballhogging loser until Krause, Phil and Scottie came along

Before then he had teammates like the only out for self Orlando Woolridge and Sidney Green and really limited guys like Dave Corzine playing heavy minutes. Oakley was really the only solid teammate he had pre Pippen, especially with Ice allegedly thinking the Bulls were supposed to be his team the year he went there.

[lefty]

Before then he had teammates like the only out for self Orlando Woolridge and Sidney Green and really limited guys like Dave Corzine playing heavy minutes. Oakley was really the only solid teammate he had pre Pippen, especially with Ice allegedly thinking the Bulls were supposed to be his team the year he went there.

Bot agreat team I agree but still, players like Jordan and Kobe are not the type of players that make their teammates better

When KFC took over as HC, he had to negotiate with DeRozan to convince him to share the ball more. Jordan was averaging something like 35-36 ppg or something like that which was too much for Phil over a long season.

Basically it went something like : « ok but if I can average 32 ? »
Phil said yes

So yes, Demar was still worried about his numbers

[Dirks_Finale]

Who would ever say they are too dumb to pick up a system to defend themselves? It’s much easier to say he was done at that point to preserve his own reputation as a dynamic scorer with the clippers and cavs.

Harper wasn’t a unique talent, nobody argued that, but he was still very important to the team.

As for Howard, it has more to do with his pot problems and him being public enemy number one after joking around during the national anthem than anything else.

Didn't Gary Payton essentially say the same thing about the triangle in his explanation as to why the 04 Lakers did not ring and why he did not play well?

That was sort of a thing for a while, fail and then just blame the complicated triangle. :lol

[ambchang]

Didn't Gary Payton essentially say the same thing about the triangle in his explanation as to why the 04 Lakers did not ring and why he did not play well?

That was sort of a thing for a while, fail and then just blame the complicated triangle. :lol

It’s actually really well documented that Payton didn’t get the triangle at all. Anybody who ever watched that team can see Payton didn’t understand at all. He was used to dribble drive and shoot. He kept breaking the triangle because he didn’t understand the spacing.